WEBVTT - Girls Girling: Work (Bonus) 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:05.439 I want to find a psychiatrist that I can communicate 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:09.920 with via subtweets. I could just tweet like, oh, I'm 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:13.640 feeling really unfocused right now, and then like the next day, 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:22.640 a prescription for adderall shows up at my door. I 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:25.600 just got off the phone with my accountant and she 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:31.200 is well with with our accountant. Our accountant, yes, our accountant, 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:35.280 our accountant. She is not happy with me. Let me 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:39.639 tell you why. I mean, I'm just really bad at 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:43.599 doing accounting stuff of any kind. The Eastern Europeans that 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:47.160 like run our business. They are incredible women and they 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:50.239 are so good at what they do and I am not. 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:54.680 They are like, did you categorize your expenses yet? Did 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:57.279 you look at this spreadsheet? You did? You? You know, 0:00:57.560 --> 0:00:59.600 make sure that this was filed and this was blah 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:01.440 blah blah. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:03.240 I haven't done any of it because you know, we're 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.200 money avoidant, which we've already talked about on this pod. 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:10.120 But for all being a freelancers hard, I know, And 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:14.760 I'm just restarting that part of my life after two 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:19.800 years of just having a job and not having to 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.440 think about any of it. And like I filed for 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:25.240 unemployment yesterday. I was like, oh, yeah, this is something 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:27.840 that I have to deal with, and like I need 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:31.360 to get on new health insurance after this month, and 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:34.399 just all these things that I forgot that when you 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:38.000 work for yourself, as freeing as that is, it also 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:40.560 means that you have to do all of the other 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:45.880 stuff that is usually handled by the business who pays you. Yeah, 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:49.240 and it's a lot. I mean, freelancing is like, it's 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:51.680 just a huge adjustment. How are you adjusting. I mean, 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:53.680 you're a you've only been in it for a short while, 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:58.640 but like any like initial observations, I mean, I've only 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:00.800 been in it for a short while time. I have 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:03.680 been a freelancer for very very long periods of time 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.000 at different points in my life. I think what's different 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:10.560 about it now is I'm now freelancing again after coming 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:14.120 out of a job where I acquired the most stability 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:16.320 and made the most money of my life. So it's 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:19.600 a big adjustment. It's also like a slightly easier adjustment 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:23.280 because I like had capital for the first time in 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:25.280 my life, which I think you know, a lot of 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.360 people who listen to this podcast will probably understand what 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:32.160 a foreign concept that can be when you're a queer person, 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:34.959 when you're a freelancer, when you're creative, like the idea 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:38.720 of having like real financial stability. So like, I am 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:40.880 entering this new part of my life with you know, 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.480 like savings and like a better idea of how to 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:47.359 manage my money. But I'm also entering this new part 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.160 of my life with like much more expensive tastes than 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:53.280 I've ever had. So I'm trying to figure out, like 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:59.000 how do I somewhat maintain my lifestyle while working for 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:03.320 myself and under standing that even though I know I'll 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:05.640 be able to make money, it's not going to be 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:07.519 in the same way where I'm like getting a really 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:10.560 nice paycheck every two weeks. It might be like I'm 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:14.600 getting a really nice paycheck every six months or something 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:18.959 like that. Um, and just figuring out what that looks like, 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:24.640 but it is it is extremely daunting to think about. Yeah, 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:28.560 I I I feel like and we've talked about this before, 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:33.720 just you and I, but like, to me, the rhythm 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:37.160 that has worked for me, and the rhythm that you 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:39.120 know obviously took a lot of work prior to that 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.080 to get to this point is one wherein I can 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:46.480 work a lot for a few months and then take 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.560 three or four or five months off, Like I, I 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:54.560 want to like take huge long breaks and then work 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.760 huge amounts for a compact period of time, which is 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:01.240 like why I, you know, like or want to work 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:03.960 in film and TV. I love working on like project 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:06.360 based things. I like working in births. And I feel 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:10.000 like you are kind of like that too. I am too, 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.680 and I've been experiencing it on a smaller scale as 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:19.120 I'm working on a book, because I like, yesterday I 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:22.120 felt like I had a really unproductive day. I watched 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:26.960 two episodes of a docuseries about fundamentalist Mormonism and then 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:31.280 wrote like four hundred words, And I felt like that 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:35.840 was a really unproductive day because like, yes, I wrote 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:39.240 those four hundred words in like forty five minutes, and 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:41.320 like to some people, that might seem like a lot, 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:44.120 but I find myself thinking, oh, why can't I just 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:46.320 do that eight hours a day, Like then I could 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.159 finish this book in like a couple of weeks. But 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:54.799 I'm like understanding that it takes me that whole day 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.600 of not writing to write, like that's all the creative 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:02.159 energy I have for that day, and I also can't 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:05.320 like pop an adderall every day and write for five hours. 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.760 It's just not realistic. Yeah, I mean, like I although 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:11.120 I will be doing that this afternoon. Yeah, I know, 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.440 I have like a long day ahead of me. There 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:17.040 are something like I'm starting to get into the rhythm 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:18.960 of like, Okay, what are the days that I can 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.720 be okay with just like doing a little editing or 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:27.440 like writing a couple paragraphs or writing one scene, And 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:30.080 then what are the days when I'm like going to 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:34.400 take an adderall, drink a bunch of coffee, sit down 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:38.600 at my table, and sit down on my computer and 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:43.200 like right four five to eight hours and that's yeah. 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:48.240 My my routine is like when I am working or 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.240 when I am in a writing groove. It's like I 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:52.560 love mornings and I love working in the morning. I 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:56.120 try to have like a short period like while I 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:58.320 have my coffee and just like listen to music or 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:00.640 what or like you know whatever where I'm not doing work. 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:03.760 But outside of that, I usually will just work a 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.600 lot and then I have to be done by like 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.960 two pm. Like that is I wake up early enough 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:12.920 where I and this is like just what works for me, 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.680 Like everyone who if you're a freelancer at home, like 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:17.680 you have to find your own rhythm and what works 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:19.440 for you. Some people are night owls, some people work 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:21.920 in afternoons, some people only like to work three days 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:23.960 a week or whatever. For me, it's like I work 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:29.080 most days, including weekends, but my brain is leaving at 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:33.600 three PM, and so I honor that by just not 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:37.479 working after three. And you know, sometimes that's not always 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.880 an option for me. Sometimes I have obligations or records 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:44.160 or meetings or gigs, but you know, I try, I 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:46.120 try to to keep that because I don't want to 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.880 work all day. You know, no, no one wants to 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:50.919 work all day. And yeah, I'm I'm like kind of 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.720 the opposite. I find myself feeling more creative in the afternoon, 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.839 like giving myself the morning to like run my errands 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:02.600 and like be a person kind of by then the 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:07.200 juices have like reached the level where I can write 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.800 in the afternoon. I've been trying to get back into 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.480 the artist's way, which I was doing for a little 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:19.720 bit in the winter, and doing and doing morn it 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:22.920 really it really is, and like I guess, like I 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.560 do understand, I understand the point of it. Which is 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:31.160 like it's getting you in the habit of just producing 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:35.600 writing without thinking about it. And when I am writing, 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:39.480 like form my from my novel, that is sometimes the 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.480 hardest thing to do is just to get stuff down 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:44.400 on the page because I sit there and like second 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:47.520 guess myself and um, the hardest part for me is 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:52.000 like getting out the pages and the plot. Um. I'm 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.120 really good like going back and editing and punching things 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:58.840 up and like adding voice. So I do think like 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:03.440 I should be trying more to do morning pages just 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:06.280 to get myself in that habit, but it's so hard. 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:09.280 The last thing I want to do the first thing 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:11.960 in the morning when I wake up, is fucking right, 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:16.200 three pages of stream of consciousness. Bullshit. Yeah, that's not 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:18.760 really my process either. I would love to be at 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:21.160 that writing level. And I think, you know, when I 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:25.040 do get into like real book work territory, like I 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:27.400 hope that I can find like a writing groove because 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.760 I have before. But a lot of stuff that I'm 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:33.439 doing these days is like not a ton of writing. 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:37.680 I set aside days to do writing for like whether 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:41.440 it's like working on my show or working on my book. 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.080 But yeah, I don't know, I think the idea of 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:49.120 like productive days is something that we as a culture 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:53.280 like need to move away from anyways, Like just the 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:57.480 idea of productivity in general, and like that being your 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:01.240 only worth is Like there are as when I just 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.000 I just can't. I don't have the energy too. And 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:07.679 that's the whole reason why I don't have a job anymore, 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:12.080 because I don't want to be adherent to like having 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:14.880 to produce something every day. But it's crazy to think 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:16.600 that I can't wake up in the morning and just 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.480 like write a couple of pages when like the first 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.880 time we ever worked together, when we were working in media, 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:25.040 like I used to wake up in the morning and 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.600 like write my first news story of the day in 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.719 bed on a Google doc on my phone. Yeah, I 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.560 mean that is incredible, and I would I wish I 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.760 possessed that kind of talent. I could never, but I 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.480 remember that era of our lives. I'll say, Um, I 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:44.680 our our our friend Channy gave me this book called 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:50.040 Do Nothing by Celeste Headley. It's a very Channey book 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:53.120 to give. Yeah, I know, right, Honestly, I think the 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:54.960 book is a little bit of a misnomer. I think 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:58.160 it should be called do Less, not do nothing. But 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:02.679 the book is basically a out how to and I, 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.520 you know, I unfortunately I'm like the target demographic for 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:07.880 any kind of self help book or any sort of 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:11.920 like philosophical kind of like life you know, advice book. 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:17.240 But the book helps you deconstruct how the invention of 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.360 the workforce in this country has like poisoned all of 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:24.120 our minds into thinking that even our idle time, even 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:27.440 our alone time, even our freelancer time, or we don't 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:31.000 have a boss or anybody supervising us, like even then, 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:34.960 we're still beating ourselves up. If I like wake up 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:38.280 and I watch you know, legendary for three hours or whatever. 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.080 And but like sometimes you have to have those days. 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:43.040 And I think that you just like kind of have 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:45.360 to tell yourself that you're enough and that just because 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:47.600 you didn't work nine to five, which if you work 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.880 for yourself, why would you work nine to five? First 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.640 of all, but second of all, it's just like you 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.120 have to like rid yourself with that. I would recommend 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:59.120 that book to truly anyone. If you read even the 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:13.400 first five pages, you'd be hooked. What's the worst job 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:19.160 you've ever had? Um? I used to work at a 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:23.559 bagel store. And I was in college at a frat 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:28.000 run Indiana State School, and I worked the hangover shift 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:34.160 on Saturday and Sunday mornings, so I dealt with the 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:38.680 worst sorority girls being like can I have my bagels 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.080 scooped at like, you know, seven thirty in the morning 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.520 or whatever. And I was always late for the shift. 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:45.959 It was such an early shift. I was inevitably fired, 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.080 of course, because I, you know, overslept my shift I 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:55.720 think maybe twice. Um, But you know, I hated that 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:58.000 job and it was for the better. What about you? 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:04.719 I think my worst job was my first real media job, UM, 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:08.360 when I worked at Next Magazine, which if anyone doesn't 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.520 know what that is, it's, um, it's a it's a 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:15.160 magazine that used to be magazine is a generous term. Yeah, 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:17.880 it's a it's a pamphlet that was that was free 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:22.679 in in gay bars and um other queer spaces around 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:26.440 New York City. Um. And I was the nightlife editor 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:30.600 there and UM, I had the worst boss have ever 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:35.960 had treaty? Like what were they like? Um, just like 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.040 a total fucking monster and like really did not like me. 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.080 The thing is like it was a job that afforded 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.320 me so many opportunities because it was also the time 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:47.520 of my life when I was going out the most 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:49.080 and when I was a club kid. So I like 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:53.480 had this magazine job forty hours a week and then 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:57.280 was going out forty hours a week on top of that. Um. 0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:59.560 So that's probably also part of the reason why it 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:03.160 was bad. Um. But it was a job where I 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.040 like the main bulk of the things I wrote were 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:10.520 like party descriptions for like the Weekend Guide and like 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.200 go to Barracuda to see Tina Burner, like that kind 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:18.439 of shape, you know, and like there were good parts 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:21.440 of it. It definitely helped me make a lot of connections. 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.400 I got to like interview a lot of cool people 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.800 because of it. But it was a bad job. And 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.200 I've and I've had I've had jobs that I think 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:34.400 were like worse in terms of the realities of them, 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:38.280 like jobs where I had worse working conditions or worse 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:42.840 hours or um whatever. But I think because that was like, 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.079 in so many ways, my first job where I felt 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:48.000 like I was doing something that was about like my 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.920 talents and what I was interested in, That's why it 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:55.240 sucked the most. But it is the thing that got 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:59.280 me into you know, quote unquote media. Um, what job 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:05.760 was that for you? Like your first media job. I mean, 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.400 my actual first media job was working at a local 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:15.880 newspaper in Indiana in college. And I was at that 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.080 news desk literally every single day of the week, seven 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.600 days a week. And I'm pretty sure that the number 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.040 of hours I clocked, I was probably getting paid like 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.720 cents an hour, like it was. I was paid nothing. 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.840 And you know, my first New York media job, I 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.240 worked brief briefly in book publishing as a studio manager 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.960 in the cover guard department at Random House, which was 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.320 horrible and I hated it. And you know, I didn't 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:43.520 use any of my skill sets. Um, but it was 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.320 a job and I inevitably left that job. Was the 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:50.080 very first time I ever quit my job to be 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:54.400 an editor at or an editor assistant rather at a magazine, 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:58.320 a queer independent magazine that paid me, I want to say, 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:02.840 seventeen thousand dollars a year, like as a contractor so 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:05.520 like after Texa's like nothing. I hope that like the 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:08.240 virgins at home, like, you know, we started off this conversation, 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:10.840 rather I started off this conversation being like I like 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:12.960 to work a lot and then take five months of 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.040 a break, which is a very unrelatable thing to say 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:18.320 if you don't have that kind of like workflow or 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.760 money flow. But everyone at home has to know, as 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.680 we're talking about now, that we started from the bottom. 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.080 From the bottom, I mean when I when I worked 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.520 it next to do and have been underpaid for a decade, 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:32.960 over a decade, yeah, I mean when I worked it 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:37.640 next I left, they're making thirty five thousand dollars a year, 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:43.960 which in New York that's actually huge. Yeah, like salary 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:46.480 to me for for a really for like a magazine 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:50.800 of that scale, that is very sadly and unfortunately like 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:55.240 to me a high salary. Yeah, because you know, spoiler 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.280 alert to anyone looking to get into media, it is 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.520 not well, it's not well paying. It is really hard 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:05.200 to make real money working in media. That's why so 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:10.400 many people have jump ship to work in tech and entertainment. Um. 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.280 But the thing about working in media is that like 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:18.600 you at least attempt to you know, split the difference 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.360 with all of the perks that come from it. And 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:24.440 that is what I did for years. I know, like 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:28.280 you you did as well, you know, like getting the 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.200 free stuff that sent to you, like going to events 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:35.920 for free, um, going on press trips, like you know, 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.560 the whole last couple of years before I stopped working 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:43.120 in you know, like traditional media, I was you know, 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.840 traveling most of the time. I was like getting sent 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.400 free close. I was going to like parties every week, 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:52.960 and like drinking free drinks and eating free food and 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:58.040 like the you know, the perks are nice, but like 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:02.320 they only exist because you don't make any money when 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.680 I I mean similarly, similarly, yes, I also had those perks, 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.200 but like the travel and the parties and the connections 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:10.480 or whatever, you're like, I'm I'm in it. Um. I 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:13.639 also like definitely went out four to seven nights a week, um, 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.000 which like when I was an editor, I considered part 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.000 of the job. You know. I was like getting drinks 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.359 with prospective writers, are people that I wanted to work with, 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.000 are going to work functions or like just putting myself 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.119 out there at parties, which I mean this isn't true 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:28.000 of every job, but like, if you work in a 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.359 metropolis area and you work in an industry where connections matter, 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:36.119 showing up the parties is of my success. You know 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.760 like that that's where you meet and start to foster 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:42.640 relationships with so many people that I work with now. 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.080 And then the rest is you know over Instagram, you're 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:49.600 really good at networking. I happened to be terrible at it. 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:53.200 You know, I disagree, I I I think so. Here's 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:56.119 actually the thing is, it's not that either of us 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.080 are good or about at networking. It's that we're actually 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:03.760 I feel really good at the anti networking networking because 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:07.160 to me, I think networking is actually like really gross 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.679 and you have to do it sometimes, but you do 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:15.040 it so well. Oh here's the thing, girl, I work 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:18.639 with my friends. That's not always true, but like I 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:21.879 work with my duties, and I have a lot of them. 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.800 I have a huge group of people in my community 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:30.119 that I consider friends in addition to colleagues and collaborators. 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.199 And obviously a lot of these relationships are different and 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:37.399 have different nuances. But like, I am very adamant about 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:41.000 getting to know someone first in a deep and meaningful 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.400 way before I ask them for something. And if I 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:48.240 don't know them, it's just like why even bother asking? 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:50.560 Because if you think you can like reach out to 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.280 someone and ask someone for a favor after you've quote 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.520 unquote networked with them once at a cocktail party. Like 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.320 it's not really going to foster like a real relationship. 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.080 I mean, people chout to me and ask me for 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.640 favors who I have no idea who they are like, 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:07.240 And this is something you start to realize once you 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:10.760 like are a very social person, have any sort of 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:14.320 like platform. This is definitely something I experienced, like when 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.760 I was a club kid, is that people have these 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.000 entire relationships with you that you are not actually a 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:27.000 part of, and they feel really comfortable asking you for things. 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:28.600 Like for me, it used to be like can you 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:31.520 get me into this party? Can you get me a 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.800 connection with someone you work with? Can you get me 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.399 a podcast? Like I have a Netflix show? Can you 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.359 help me get it made? Like the things that people 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:43.479 you know, I understand people shooting their shot and I 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:47.480 have certainly shot my shot with people before. But you're right, 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:51.160 like it's really weird when there's not some actual kind 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:56.000 of like connection or investment. And like I am very 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:00.720 careful about the people who I work with who I 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:02.720 also have some kind of personal connection to. I mean 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.560 that that is very much the story of this podcast 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.320 is like, you know, Fran and I used to work together, 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:10.960 and I told them on the day they told me 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.879 they were leaving to go work at Netflix, that we 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:16.600 could finally be friends because we didn't work together anymore. 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.639 We had and then become friends just a little, just 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.520 a little tiny bit, just a little I liked you, well, 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:27.719 we'll say that I I liked you. And then and 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:31.000 then when we, you know, started making this podcast, we 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:34.440 were both very clear that our friendship was more important 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:37.040 than this podcast, and that this was something that could 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.280 only happen if it felt like based on the reality 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.440 of our friendship and if like our real life relationship 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:47.120 always came first before the work. Absolutely, and I hope 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.560 that's true of anybody that tries to work with someone 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.600 who they're friends with. But like back to the networking 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:54.680 at of all of it all, It just like networking 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:57.280 just needs to be eradicated because if you're going into 0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.719 a conversation with someone thinking about like what they can 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:03.680 do for you, Obviously sometimes it's a natural like your 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:05.919 brain just does that as a natural byproduct. But if 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:08.439 you're just looking at this person the whole time as 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:12.520 an opportunity you the whole time, girl, Yeah, the whole time, 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:14.880 you're just like set up for failure. Like I approach 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:19.320 people as humans first, and I have like become friends 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:23.560 with people who I either worked with once or I 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:25.200 went into it and in the back of my brain 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:27.560 I was like, wow, like what an amazing connection and 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:30.520 I bet they can help me do something. And years 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:34.600 later we are still like amazing friends or like really 0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:37.760 close duties and I've never asked anything from them or 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:40.560 vice versa. And I feel like that to me, is 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:42.960 it right? It's like, figure out how can how it 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.359 can be a real relationship first? Is like to me, 0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:49.760 what builds great things? Because I think some of the 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:53.200 best things are built with like collaboration and with community. 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:06.639 So we have a very interesting question that producer Phoebe 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:10.800 has posed um about us being business partners, which is 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:14.239 if we went to platonic couples therapy it would be 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:20.200 to discuss blank. I mean, god, I don't know about this. Um. 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:24.919 I will say everyone should do couples therapy, like couples 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:27.480 in general, even if you don't have problems, should be 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:30.359 on couples therapy. I think friends that ever you know, 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:33.720 work together or like have a lot of moving parts 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.960 in their friendship. Like I think joint therapy is like amazing, 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:40.200 so you know, you don't necessarily have to have problems 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:43.040 to get to the therapy part. Yes, but like we 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:47.159 do have problems, and I will say so, this is 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:50.240 actually something that Fran and I have already talked about 0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:52.840 this year, and it was like a hard thing for 0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:58.360 me to dig into on my own. But for me, 0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:00.239 what I would want to talk about would be my 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:06.639 um codependence because I moved to l a mid pandemic. 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:09.399 Fran is one of my closest friends in the city 0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:12.400 and we also work together, and so like it got 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:14.720