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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George

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Speaker 1: Norri with you. Magister Bill m is with us. He

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Speaker 1: is a Satanist. The magister is an honor bestowed on

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Speaker 1: people kim has started in the medieval times about people

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Speaker 1: with knowledge. He's been a member of the Church of

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Speaker 1: Satan for more than twenty years, where he currently holds

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Speaker 1: the high rank of Magister. He has written and published

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Speaker 1: numerous articles on Satanism. Is the host of history's longest

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Speaker 1: running Satanic podcast, called The Devil's Mischief on Radio Free Satan.

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Speaker 1: As a representative of the Church of Satan, Magister Bill

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Speaker 1: has been featured for over the years and various radio,

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Speaker 1: television podcasts, and print publications. He also has performed Satanic

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Speaker 1: weddings and funerals, and in the spring of twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 1: he launched Satan's Plane, a Satanism talk podcast. Bill, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the program. Great to be here. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: having me. Lots to talk with you about, because I

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Speaker 1: have to tell you I was born a Catholic. I'm

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Speaker 1: not a practicing Catholic guy at all, but I've got

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Speaker 1: some views, and we will chat with you about your

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Speaker 1: views in things like that. But first of all, give

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Speaker 1: us you your definition of what a Satanist is if

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Speaker 1: you can so as a Satanist, I am a Satanist,

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Speaker 1: which is not the same as a Satan worshiper. So

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Speaker 1: it's not satan worship, it's Satanism. And Satanism, I would say,

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Speaker 1: is a religion based on the carnal rather than the spiritual.

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Speaker 1: And Satanism is about embracing the life enriching things which

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Speaker 1: have traditionally been given the devil's name, so pride, lust,

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Speaker 1: earthly success, rational self interest, atheism, humor, nonconformity, science, being

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Speaker 1: selective about whom we love. We don't see these things

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Speaker 1: as shameful sins, but empowering ideals. And we also recognize

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Speaker 1: the psychological power of symbols and ceremonies, so we utilize

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Speaker 1: satan is mythology's most finding mask on for what we're about.

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Speaker 1: Is it wrongfully given the name Satan? No, we purposely

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Speaker 1: chose that name because you know, those ideals that I've listed,

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Speaker 1: you know traditionally been given the devil's name. And rather

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Speaker 1: than trying to feel shameful about it. We philosophically, you know,

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Speaker 1: just wear that on our sleeve and say, well, if

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Speaker 1: thinking for yourself, if you know, feeling lust, of wanting

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Speaker 1: money and wanting success in life and hating your enemies,

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Speaker 1: of that's you know, what spiritual traditions have called the

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Speaker 1: devil's work, then you know, call me symbolically affiliate of

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Speaker 1: the devil in that sense. Now, when did you become

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Speaker 1: a Satanist? So I had first um. I had heard

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Speaker 1: about Satanism growing up because I grew up in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighties during the whole Satanic panic hysteria, where the

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Speaker 1: media was making people believe they were you know, roving bands,

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Speaker 1: devil worshipers and every town eating babies and all these things. Right,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, all all those things we see in the

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Speaker 1: movies and the check chick tracks and so on. I

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Speaker 1: discovered Satanism sometime in my early twenties. I had gone

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Speaker 1: through a number of different religions. I was actually born

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Speaker 1: and raised Catholic myself. It wasn't a hatred of Catholicism

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Speaker 1: that made me go into Satanism. I realized Catholicism wasn't

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Speaker 1: for me, and I tried a couple of other different religions.

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Speaker 1: I was doing a WICCA and I was looking into

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Speaker 1: Eastern religions. But then it was sometime my early twenties

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Speaker 1: I found the Satanic Bible and felt that this really

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Speaker 1: resonated with me, and not everybody will have that experience.

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Speaker 1: We very explicitly say that Satanism is not a religion

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Speaker 1: for everybody. When you tell people you're a Satanist, do

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Speaker 1: they freak out? I get mixed reviews, and most of

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Speaker 1: the time I just don't bring it up. Sometimes I

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Speaker 1: don't have to, you know, myself saves me time and

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Speaker 1: also you know, in the workplace and so on. I

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Speaker 1: just don't think it's it's right to bring up religion

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Speaker 1: at all. Um. Some people freak out, some people are curious,

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Speaker 1: some people scoff some people, you know, are fascinated. It's

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Speaker 1: it's different with different people. I mean, if somebody met

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Speaker 1: you at a restaurant or someplace, would they just say

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Speaker 1: what a nice guy. Yeah, I've had I've had people

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Speaker 1: say that, you know, when they find out I'm a Satanist.

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Speaker 1: I had a friend who say, I really I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I don't get it, because like you're you're such a

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Speaker 1: friendly person. I guess they're expecting, you know, me to

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Speaker 1: be you know, grunting and eating babies and that sort

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Speaker 1: of stuff. And look, let's talk a little bit about Satanism.

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Speaker 1: And now Satanists don't believe in the concept of God,

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Speaker 1: do they. Well, no, not in the supernatural sense. We

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Speaker 1: believe that deities are the invention of a human imagination.

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Speaker 1: So we are atheists by the strictest sense of the term,

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Speaker 1: that we don't believe in God's But we take that

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Speaker 1: a step further philosophically. We believe that, since humans have

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Speaker 1: created this concept of God, that the God in Satanism

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Speaker 1: is the self. So symbolically, as a Satanist, I am

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Speaker 1: my own God. I am the one who manners the most.

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Speaker 1: To me, I'm the one who manners the most at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, I'm the one who's most

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Speaker 1: responsible for things that happen in my life. If you

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Speaker 1: don't believe in God, then I take it you don't

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Speaker 1: believe in the devil quote unquote correct. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: we take that only as a metaphor, in an apt

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Speaker 1: metaphor for philosophically what we're about. But no, we don't

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Speaker 1: believe in an actual deity because we believe God, Satan

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Speaker 1: and Zeus and all these others are just the imagination

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Speaker 1: of a human mind. Do you sometimes get people on

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Speaker 1: your podcast? Do you take calls on your podcast? For example? No,

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Speaker 1: not yet. I mean Satan's Flint. I just launched that

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Speaker 1: in the spring, and so it's been it's been just

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Speaker 1: me talking so far. But I have been thinking of

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Speaker 1: the idea of letting people on there and on the

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Speaker 1: Devil's Meship. I have had people on from time to time. Um,

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Speaker 1: but it's not like a calling show. Okay. When Anton

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Speaker 1: Lebay was alive, did people misunderstand him? You know, there

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Speaker 1: were some people who misunderstood even though he was very

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Speaker 1: you know, clear in what he believed and you know

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Speaker 1: why he believed it, and the sources were amply available.

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Speaker 1: He was a target also of you know, a lot

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Speaker 1: of propaganda. They were, you know, devil worshippers who hitted

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Speaker 1: what he was about. Uh. And of course you know

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Speaker 1: somebody evangelical sort of Christians, would you know, use his

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Speaker 1: own image on things that he didn't stand for? Um?

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Speaker 1: You know, yet again with the baby sacrifices and those

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Speaker 1: sorts of things. When I guess do you go to

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Speaker 1: a church. The Church of Satan is is a place

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Speaker 1: that you physically go to on Sundays. No, So the

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Speaker 1: Church of Satan is an international organization, and Satanism itself

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Speaker 1: is not a congregational religion, and by that I mean

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Speaker 1: it's not a religion that actually requires services. So we

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Speaker 1: do have ceremonies and rituals, but our approach is that

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Speaker 1: we see that people have a different need for those

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Speaker 1: in different frequencies. And we've seen in some cases with

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Speaker 1: some particular denominations of Christianity, for example, people dragging themselves

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Speaker 1: to church every week where they're not really into it.

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Speaker 1: They're kind of going out of guilty feelings of obligation.

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Speaker 1: So we don't want to do the same thing. We

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Speaker 1: have rituals an optional thing. We do get together in

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Speaker 1: person now and then, but even that is optional. There

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Speaker 1: are some people who join the Church of Satan who

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Speaker 1: decide they don't really want to meet up with other

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Speaker 1: Satanis in person. They're just happy with the affiliation what

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Speaker 1: it means for them and the itself. There are other

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Speaker 1: people like myself, you know, I like to get together

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Speaker 1: now and then with other Church of Satan members for

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Speaker 1: whether it's ritual or activities. So the thought of fallen

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Speaker 1: angels and Satan being the leader of them, that's not

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Speaker 1: the case in your opinion. No, And it's funny when

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Speaker 1: I see a lot of Um Christians say that and

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Speaker 1: say that it comes from you know, Um, I think

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Speaker 1: of the Book of Isaiah, where it really doesn't. I

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Speaker 1: think the story really comes from Milton's Paradise Lost about um,

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Speaker 1: you know, Satan or slash Lucifer being a a fallen angel.

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Speaker 1: But I'm having said that, there have been you know,

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Speaker 1: there's been literature written about that, about Satan being the

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Speaker 1: anti hero in that sense, not only in Paradise Lost,

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Speaker 1: but Mark Twain in The Mysterious Stranger or um Letters

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Speaker 1: to the Earth. And we do philosophically find some some

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Speaker 1: residence with that. Was Satan a living being? Was Satan

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Speaker 1: a living being? Yes? Of No, Um, you know, Satan

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Speaker 1: again is a mythological character, you know, as far as

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Speaker 1: we're concerned, something we can utilize as a mascot, like

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Speaker 1: I said, but as an actual being. No. Well, how

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Speaker 1: did Levy pick up on Satan as his mascot? Let's say, well,

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Speaker 1: he's had a couple of experiences in his personal life.

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Speaker 1: He didn't come from any kind of you know, evangelical

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Speaker 1: Christian background, but he was an organist. He was a musician,

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Speaker 1: and one thing that he noticed was that he would

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Speaker 1: play at carnivals and you know, burlesque houses and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, and then someday the next day, on Sunday,

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Speaker 1: he would have a gig at a maybe a you know,

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Speaker 1: a church revival or something like that. I needn't mind,

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Speaker 1: you know, a gig as a gig when you're a musician.

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Speaker 1: And he noticed some of the same people at both.

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Speaker 1: So he thought it was interesting that humans had this

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Speaker 1: kind of hypocrisy of sinning and then asking for forgiveness

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Speaker 1: on the next day. He noticed in general how people

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Speaker 1: had sort of dreaded this idea, and there were other

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Speaker 1: occult religions at the time. There was a boom of

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Speaker 1: that in the nineteen sixties, and he noticed that there

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Speaker 1: were a lot of these witchcraft groups that wanted to

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Speaker 1: indulge in the esotericism witchcraft, but they wanted to be

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Speaker 1: thought of his good guys at the same time, you know,

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Speaker 1: white witches and all that. I mean, he found that,

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Speaker 1: you know, rather hypocritical, and I think he felt that

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Speaker 1: if you're going to he said, you're going to be

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Speaker 1: the sinner, be the best center on the block. So

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Speaker 1: you know those things I listed at the beginning, those ideals.

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Speaker 1: If it's going to be called the devil, don't you know,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to try to whitewash it. Where it

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Speaker 1: on our sleeve? Was what one would call a good guy?

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Speaker 1: Was he a good guy? Well? I mean I would

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Speaker 1: say he was a responsible citizen. He was, you know,

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Speaker 1: the law abiding who was respectful to the people that

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Speaker 1: he had learned his respect there as when he died

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Speaker 1: in ninety seven, there were a lot of people posting

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Speaker 1: a lot of unsubstantiated rumors about him, as usual the

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Speaker 1: case when somebody dies and there's rumors about him doing

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Speaker 1: you know, some crime or another, and those rumors russell

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Speaker 1: when he was alive too, And I haven't seen any

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Speaker 1: evidence of that. What would you say it? Should I

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Speaker 1: call you Bill or magister? You can call me Bill? Okay?

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Speaker 1: What would you say? Bill? Is the biggest misconception about Satanism? Well,

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Speaker 1: what's kind of two big misconceptions kind of come to mind.

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Speaker 1: And what's amusing about him is that they're like exact

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Speaker 1: opposites of each other. Um, one big misconception is like

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Speaker 1: Satanism is something that is, you know, practiced by the

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Speaker 1: New World Order in and these people in high rank governments.

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Speaker 1: And then at the same time I hear people claiming

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Speaker 1: that Satanism is something for angry teenagers living in living

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Speaker 1: in their parents' basement or whatever. And it's amusing because

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Speaker 1: both of ms are you know, contradict each other. And

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Speaker 1: in reality, you know, most of our Satanists, where you know,

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Speaker 1: we are citizens of a country, you may right in

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Speaker 1: to us and not even know that we're Satanists. We

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Speaker 1: have our jobs, you know, I got to go to

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Speaker 1: the dentist, I got to do my laundry like any

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Speaker 1: other person. You know, I have my career. You have emotion,

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Speaker 1: you cry, you laugh, and like anybody else. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And we think that that's you know, an important part

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Speaker 1: of Satanism and living life and experiencing those things. Why

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Speaker 1: do you think the word evil has been associated with

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Speaker 1: satan Well, I think it's because those ideas I mentioned

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Speaker 1: have just been been called evil. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of tradition, not just Christianity, but other spiritual

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Speaker 1: religions have thoughts that it's evil to think, you know,

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Speaker 1: put yourself first, or to feel lost for something, or

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Speaker 1: you know, to want more money or you know not

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Speaker 1: you know, to hate your enemies. And um, I think

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Speaker 1: how that comes up came about as a mix of

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Speaker 1: different things. I do think there have been some religious

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Speaker 1: institutions who have made certain things sins in an effort

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Speaker 1: to control other people. But I think also there are

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Speaker 1: people who just want some kind of self denial of

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Speaker 1: of things and think that they can better themselves through

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Speaker 1: some kind of self sacrifice, which you know, as a Satanist,

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Speaker 1: I reject bill off. Those of us who have never

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Speaker 1: been to a Satanic ritual go to one? Would we

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Speaker 1: freak out or what would we say about it? Well?

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Speaker 1: I mean you could find video footage of Church of

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Speaker 1: Satan doing rituals all the way back to Manton the Bay.

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Speaker 1: There was a documentary called Satanis where a lot of

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Speaker 1: footage from that gets used when you see documentaries on Satanism.

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Speaker 1: There was a on June six, two thousand and six,

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Speaker 1: we did a high mass that we filmed and we

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Speaker 1: made some of that footage available. So, um, I mean

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Speaker 1: the ritual you won't find drinking goat blood or you know,

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Speaker 1: sacrificing animals or eating babies and that. And you're not

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Speaker 1: vampires right. No, if you put a cross up to me,

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Speaker 1: I would say, you know, what on earth are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Do you believe in the concept of hell? No, we

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Speaker 1: don't believe in heaven or hell or an afterlife. We

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Speaker 1: believe I mean heaven and hell. If anything is just

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Speaker 1: here on earth, it's you know, you make your own

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Speaker 1: heaving your own hell up here. We don't believe in

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Speaker 1: the soul that leaves the body. I would believe that,

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Speaker 1: you know, definitely into consciousness and that means to make

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Speaker 1: the most of life here and now. And would you

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Speaker 1: say that most Satanists would would would accept what you

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Speaker 1: just said, that there is no afterlife or any of that,

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Speaker 1: or do they believe in that. Possibly you might find

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Speaker 1: Satanists who don't completely rule out the possibility. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's okay to be skeptical of things one way or another.

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Speaker 1: And you may think, okay, well, maybe there are some

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Speaker 1: things we don't completely know about the body. Maybe it

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Speaker 1: is possible things can happen sort of this way or

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Speaker 1: that way. You know, we have seen and your coasts

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Speaker 1: am has certainly shown this through you know, anecdotes, that

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Speaker 1: there are people who have strange experiences that they can

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Speaker 1: understand and do credit things to um, you know, ghosts,

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Speaker 1: their souls. I would argue that there may be other

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Speaker 1: metaphysical explanations for that, possibly, um, you know, the imprint

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Speaker 1: of energy and the forced dimension and things like that.

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Speaker 1: But I have no reason to believe there's an actual

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Speaker 1: that consciousness can leave, you know, the body and goes

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Speaker 1: somewhere afterwards that we're still thinking into the outside of

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Speaker 1: the body. Bill. If you weren't called satanists, what word

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Speaker 1: or phrase would you use to describe your belief system. Well,

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Speaker 1: you can break things down into the different isms. I

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Speaker 1: suppose that you know Satanism is made up of I

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Speaker 1: am an atheist and that that word means absolutely nothing

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Speaker 1: more than I don't believe in deities. I'm an epicurean.

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Speaker 1: Uh you Epicureanism not the same as hedonism, but you know,

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Speaker 1: liking Dulgian things, free thinker also in that sense. Um So,

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Speaker 1: I mean there are the little terms like that, but

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Speaker 1: I've found Satanism would be the most convenient, you know,

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Speaker 1: labeled for why I'm going to say, though, public relations wise,

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Speaker 1: would it have been better to have used a different phrase.

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Speaker 1: It probably would have, But that's kind of missing the

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Speaker 1: point because we did deliberately choose this as as an

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Speaker 1: adversarial term. We are an adversarial religion. We're not looking

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Speaker 1: for a mass acceptance. Once in a while, I do

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Speaker 1: see some group who claims to be Satanists who say

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Speaker 1: that we know we have to make people accept Satanism,

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Speaker 1: and it's kind of an absurd approach. We purposely, you know,

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Speaker 1: choose mythology's most infamous bad guying. Um, you know, for

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Speaker 1: we aren't and we're nonconformists. We don't want to have

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Speaker 1: anything to do with, you know, being part of the

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Speaker 1: bigger world. You could say it's good to correct misinformation.

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Speaker 1: I believe in correcting misinformation, like you know I do

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Speaker 1: on my show or on this shows. Things come up,

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Speaker 1: And I believe in making our literature available to people

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Speaker 1: who are saying this is what we're about. If if

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Speaker 1: you're interested, here's more things you can read. If you're

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Speaker 1: not interested, that's fine too. By calling yourself Satanists, is

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Speaker 1: it like saying we're nonconformists. It is, I think, because

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Speaker 1: you know, satan does as a you know, mythological figure

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Speaker 1: as the adversary. In fact, the original meaning of Satan

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Speaker 1: comes from Hebrew to mean the adversary. So nonconformity is

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Speaker 1: something we do. Um, you know adher too. It is

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Speaker 1: one of our conform is one of our sins. Good sing.

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Speaker 1: Was it Hollywood that blew this out of proportion or

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Speaker 1: or what? It's been a mix of different things. Um.

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Speaker 1: If you look at reports in the media, for example,

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Speaker 1: on on Satanism from say like the sixties, you'll see

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Speaker 1: somebody start off the article talking about, you know, traditional

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Speaker 1: history of you know, spells and you know, the devil

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Speaker 1: and this and that, and then we get to the eighties,

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Speaker 1: people start like an article about supposed Satanic ritual abuse

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Speaker 1: and things that crazed devil worshippers have done. And I

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Speaker 1: think that is a mix of Hollywood. I think also,

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Speaker 1: of course, some Christian churches have had their own scare

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Speaker 1: propaganda trying to get people to say, here's, oh, here's

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Speaker 1: what Satanists believe in. Here's all the things that they do.

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Speaker 1: The media especially has I think constant most damage with that.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one am Eastern and go to Coast to coast am

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