1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 5 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Tuesday edition of Bloomberg Sound On. How 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 2: is possibly only Tuesday? I'm Joe Matthew in Washington with 7 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 2: a lot to talk about. We're going to start with 8 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 2: the situation in Ukraine and actually what's happening here in 9 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 2: the capital today. It's pretty important as Ukraine makes this 10 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: last ditch effort to pull something here out of the 11 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 2: fire in terms of funding, dispatching top leaders from Kiev 12 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: to the capital. They're here now, including President Zelenski's chief 13 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 2: of staff, the Defense Ministry, the speaker of the Ukrainian Parliament, 14 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: and President Zelenski himself not in person, but will zoom 15 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 2: in to a meeting with senators later on today to 16 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 2: make the case here. This is apparently something that the 17 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 2: Biden administration helped to arrange and with us at the 18 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: table to talk about this, among other issues, is Kurt Vulker. 19 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 2: You've heard him on the program before, the former US 20 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 2: ambassador to NATO former Special Representative for Ukraine negotiations with 21 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 2: US at the table. Mister ambassador, it's great to see 22 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: you and I appreciate your coming here today. And what's 23 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: a pretty important moment for the cause in Ukraine. Will 24 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,839 Speaker 2: this in person cajoling help. 25 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 3: You know, it's always good for the Ukrainians to make 26 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 3: the case and to be communicating and to get some 27 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 3: reassurance that any assistance they get is being used well. 28 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 3: But this is caught up on something completely different. You 29 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 3: have the Republicans, basically a majority of the Republicans and 30 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 3: a majority of Democrats as well, supporting a to Ukraine. 31 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 3: If you took this to a floor vote in the House, 32 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 3: you'd get three hundred and fifty votes. What they are 33 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 3: concerned about is doing that without something on this, you know, 34 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 3: funding for the southern border, yes, because they want to 35 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 3: show that we are taking care of American security in 36 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 3: addition to helping Ukraine with its security, and this is 37 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 3: something the White House doesn't want to do. So they're 38 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 3: trying to turn up the heat on the letter that 39 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 3: you saw from omb Yes yesterday. It's such sharp language, 40 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 3: it's making it so dire. We're going to run out 41 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 3: of money. Ukraine's gonna fall, It's gonna be a disaster, yes, 42 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 3: which is partially true. But the reason it's being emphasized 43 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 3: that way is to try to avoid getting that funding 44 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 3: for the southern border that they don't want. 45 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 2: So let's unpack a couple of things that you just 46 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 2: said there and we'll start with the letter. How is 47 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 2: it partially true then? Because Shlanda Jung says Ukraine is 48 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 2: out of money and running out of its time, right. 49 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 4: Is that's the part that's true. That's what I'm saying. 50 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 3: It is true that the money that was approved back 51 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 3: in December last year was good for a supplemental to 52 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 3: carry us till about September. Then we had a small 53 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 3: increment on top of that that got us through December. 54 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 3: What's in front of the Congress now is enough money 55 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 3: to cover us for next year and then we're not 56 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 3: gonna have to vote on this again during the election. 57 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 4: That's what everybody wants. 58 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 3: So that is true that that's when that money scheduled 59 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 3: to run out. What I'm saying is that the emphasis 60 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 3: on this now raising the political temperature has all to 61 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 3: do with this package that is trying to get put 62 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 3: together in the Senate. 63 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 2: So let's talk more about that for a moment then, 64 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 2: because you know, here we are hashing out details on 65 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 2: asylum law, talking about the parole system here in Washington. 66 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 2: What does Kiev make of this debate and being somehow 67 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 2: drawn into the debate about our work. 68 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 3: This is the curse of Ukraine. They are always sucked 69 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 3: into our domestic politics in one way or yeah, and 70 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 3: they don't like it. 71 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 4: They don't want it. 72 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 3: They were the subject of the impeachment against President Trump, 73 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 3: They're the subject of all the Hunter Biden stuff. 74 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 4: They're now the subject. 75 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 3: They're the roadkill or the football that gets passed around 76 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 3: when we're talking about immigration policy. 77 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 2: And the argument here is we can't help someone else 78 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: and their security until we help ourselves. 79 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 3: That is the argument that the Republicans are making, and 80 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 3: it's it seems to me, you know, you want We've 81 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 3: been in Washington a long time. 82 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 4: We see this almost every year. 83 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 3: People raise the temperature on both sides, They go down 84 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 3: to the last minute, and then they finally just stitch 85 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 3: it together, pass a package and is done and then 86 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 3: forget about it. 87 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 2: Well, so what's the argument from Vladimir Zelenski today that 88 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 2: maybe hasn't been heard already, is it that Putin will 89 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: win if you don't pay, and then that's what lawmakers 90 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 2: keep hearing. But it's not moving the. 91 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 4: Needle here, No, it's not. It's not a new argument. 92 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 3: It is a moral clarity argument that they are actually 93 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 3: fighting for democracy, of fighting for freedom, against barbarianism, against 94 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 3: war crimes, horrific things that the Russians have done and 95 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 3: continue to do. And I guess one of the things 96 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 3: that he'll be saying now is what we are seeing 97 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 3: with hamas terrorism against Israel, it's very similar to what 98 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 3: we saw with Russia against Ukraine, just on a larger scale. 99 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 2: Let's talk about what's actually happening on the ground there 100 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 2: By the way, we've been so focused on a debate overfunding, 101 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: we've heard as well that the window could be closing 102 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 2: in terms of military opportunity. But we're going into winter. 103 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,679 Speaker 2: And I believe it was General Mark Kimmitt who said 104 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 2: on the program that that's actually a good thing for Ukraine, 105 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:17,799 Speaker 2: that it will slow things down, that it might actually 106 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: be an opportunity if Ukraine should have a gap in funding. 107 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 4: Right. 108 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 3: I think Mark is right on that the Ukrainians have 109 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 3: tried to launch a substantial counter offensive. They got a 110 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 3: little bit, but not very much. The Russian defenses have 111 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:37,239 Speaker 3: held pretty well. The Ukrainians have then turned toward longer range, 112 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 3: precision guided attacks against logistics and infrastructure that are sustaining 113 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 3: the Russian forces. If the weather then slows the Russians 114 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 3: down in their attacks against Ukraine, they can get a 115 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 3: little bit of a breather, and yet they keep the 116 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 3: pressure on the Russian logistics through those precision guided attacks 117 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 3: that actually could work the Ukraine's advantage and help them 118 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 3: emerge from the winter a little bit better shape than 119 00:05:59,480 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 3: the end. 120 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 2: Now, if you went back twenty or thirty years, I 121 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: know these questions are fun, and you went up on 122 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 2: Capitol Hill and got all the Republicans in our ruin 123 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 2: and said, hey, we've got we've decimated half the Russian military. 124 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: A little bit more money, we could actually finish this job, 125 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 2: and no Americans got involved. Would that not be sold? 126 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 4: That would be in a heartbeat. 127 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 3: I mean literally, less than five percent of the annual 128 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 3: US defense budget has eliminated half of the Russian conventional 129 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 3: military capability. 130 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 2: Incredible. 131 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 3: Ukrainian has done the best job of threat reduction of 132 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 3: anyone from a US perspective. 133 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, So what does that leave Ukraine, however, still badly outnumbered. 134 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 3: Well, if you think about the numbers here, Russia has 135 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 3: poured about one hundred, one hundred and fifty billion into 136 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 3: their war effort against Ukraine, the US and. 137 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 4: The EU twenty. 138 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 3: Two times the size of the Russian economy, and we've 139 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 3: put in about the same amount. 140 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 4: So that's why it's stuck. 141 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 3: If we actually leaned into this, Russia would be on 142 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 3: its back feet. 143 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 2: It's an interesting oar that doesn't seem to be landing terribly. 144 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 3: Well, it's not right now, it's not And I think 145 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 3: one of the things, and again I point back to 146 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 3: the Republican members in the House, people like Speaker Johnson 147 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 3: have indicated that they want to bring it to the floor, 148 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 3: they want to vote in favor, but they just want 149 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 3: to hear clear answers. What is the goal, what's the 150 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 3: strategy for achieving the goal, and what are the resources 151 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 3: needed to do it so that we actually do it, 152 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 3: And instead we get a lot of very vague statements 153 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 3: like as long as it takes or what's it? 154 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 4: What are we trying to do? 155 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 2: Well, that's the call that we've been hearing from a 156 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 2: number of senators here. There was a particular quote that 157 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: I was looking for, and I'm not going to find it. 158 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 2: But Speaker Johnson wants an endgame. Yeah, he wants to 159 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 2: know what the strategy is that'll be different in twenty 160 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 2: four than it wasn't twenty three. Is the administration capable 161 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 2: of answering that or is that just the wrong question if. 162 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 3: You asked, No, I think it's the right question, And 163 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 3: I think what we see is the administration don't want 164 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 3: to answer that because they don't want to talk about 165 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 3: defeating Russia because of the risks of escalation, the risk 166 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 3: of possible nuclear use. They don't want to get sucked 167 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 3: into saying something that will then be used against them 168 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 3: as saying, oh, you're getting as into World War III. 169 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 4: So they just don't want to answer that. 170 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 3: But I honestly believe that we do have to answer 171 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 3: that we can help the Ukrainians defeat the Russian forces 172 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 3: so that the war would end that way on better terms, 173 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 3: and bring Ukraine into NATO as quickly as possible and 174 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 3: stop the war, shut it down. I don't think that 175 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 3: anyone really wants to see any nuclear use I don't 176 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 3: think the Russian military wants that. I don't think Putin 177 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 3: wants that. But as long as he thinks that they 178 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 3: can win, and as long as we keep signaling that 179 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 3: we'll never bring him into NATO, as long as the 180 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 3: war's going on, that's an incentive for Putin to keep fighting. 181 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 2: Could Ukraine win this war in twenty twenty four. 182 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 4: It could, It could. 183 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 3: I think it all depends on what happens inside Russia. 184 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 3: They've lost over a hundred thousand lives fighting this war. 185 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 3: That's an awful lot. And you think about the number 186 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 3: of wounded. You think about the impact in Russian society. 187 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 3: You think about the impact that sanctions have had on travel, 188 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,719 Speaker 3: on air travel, on Russians not able to use their 189 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 3: credit cards when they travel abroad. I mean, this is 190 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 3: a significant impact on the Russian society, and you just 191 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 3: wonder how long they can sustain that. 192 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 2: Well, we are wondering that, and of course a little 193 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 2: lawmakers want to bet on a winner, right, They want 194 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 2: someone to say we'll have this thing done by July. 195 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, I would flip that around. 196 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 3: If I was talking to the lawmakers, I'd say, imagine 197 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 3: a situation where Putin wins where Ukraine has defeated, the 198 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 3: US and the West appear not to have had the 199 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 3: will and the resolve to defend Ukraine and stop Putin 200 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 3: from taking over another country. How is that going to 201 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 3: go over anywhere in the world. What are the Iranians 202 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 3: going to make of that? What are the Chinese going 203 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 3: to make of that? What are the North Koreans going 204 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 3: to make of that? You open the door to a 205 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 3: lot more risk if you don't help Ukraine win. 206 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 2: A great conversation. I'm so glad you could come in, 207 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 2: former ambassador, great to see you, sir. You're always welcome 208 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 2: here at the table at Bloomberg. 209 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 4: And now we get to hear from the great Rick Davis. 210 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 2: That's right, Former colleagues, that's right. Rick is here every 211 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: day and he's joined by Jim Kessler. Today is we 212 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 2: assemble our political panel for their take on all of this, 213 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: Rick Davis, your thoughts today on the conversation that we're 214 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 2: having and the impact that it might have. Remember, President 215 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: Zelenski was here in person in September. He's going to 216 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 2: be zooming into this meeting today. But a lot of folks, 217 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 2: very high officials, ranking officials from Kiev are actually pressing 218 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: flesh today on Capitol Hill in the Senate. Will it matter, Yeah, 219 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 2: I think it matters. 220 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 5: It mattered then when President Zelenski came a very well 221 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 5: orchestrated trip. He's done this repeatedly at global confabs around 222 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 5: the world, in other capitals in NATO, and so I 223 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 5: give him immense credit for knowing who his friends are 224 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 5: right making sure he spends the time and is senior 225 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 5: leadership spend the time talking with answering questions for and 226 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 5: representing how much value our money and weapons, systems and 227 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 5: support mean to the Ukrainian people and to the war effort. 228 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 5: That being said, I think, you know, bast Volker great 229 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 5: shout out, thank you, Kurt. You know, he makes it 230 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 5: a very critical point, which is that this is a 231 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:29,079 Speaker 5: very nuanced and managed message at this point right nobody 232 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 5: is talking about how they get to an ultimate victory 233 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 5: over Russia. They you know, it's it's one of these 234 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 5: things where it's like, how do you sustain the battle 235 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 5: without being too specific on what the ultimate endgame is. 236 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 5: In other words, will you win in six months? Will 237 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 5: this surge result in you know, regaining x amount of 238 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 5: territory and and so we're in this period of time 239 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 5: where uh, it's harder to pinpoint what the positive effects 240 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 5: of our support are than it is to be able 241 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 5: to talk about what the negative impact would be if 242 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 5: we don't support Ukraine. And of course that's what we 243 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 5: saw in that O m B language. It focused on 244 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 5: here's the negative impact Congress that you're gonna have. You're 245 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 5: going to reward Vladimir Putin if you don't get that 246 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 5: money in the pipeline. So, uh, I think this is 247 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 5: really a critical period of time. And I'm and I'm 248 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 5: and I'm not surprised that that they are the Ukrainian 249 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 5: officials are drawing parallels to the attacks uh from Hamas 250 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 5: on Israel, because that is what's first of mine right now, 251 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 5: it's still a fresh concept. 252 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 2: And and and and. 253 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 5: As as Ambassador Bolker said, it's just a it's a 254 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 5: matter of scale. I mean, that same thing's happened uh 255 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 5: in Ukraine, and it just happened uh longer and and 256 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 5: and and impacted even more people. 257 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 2: Jim Kessler, welcome back. It's good to see you, speaker. 258 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 2: Mike Johnson tweets Republicans quote have legitimate concers yarns about 259 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 2: the lack of a clear strategy in Ukraine, a path 260 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: to resolving the conflict, or a plan for adequately ensuring 261 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 2: accountability for aid unquote. What should be the answer to that? 262 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 6: That's an unhelpful tweet. Let's just start with that. I 263 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:21,719 Speaker 6: thought what Ambassador Volker said was you know, very important 264 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 6: and worth listening to. And the most important thing was 265 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 6: imagine that Vladimir Putin wins. I mean, that is the 266 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 6: case that you, you know, the Republicans need to hear. Look, 267 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 6: I'm shocked and disappointed where a lot of elected Republicans are. 268 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 6: There is a growing isolationist wing within the Republican Party 269 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 6: that says that America is not an essential force for good, 270 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 6: a military force for good out in the world. And 271 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 6: we're seeing that in Ukraine. And you know, look, I 272 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,439 Speaker 6: think we all had greater hopes that the last six 273 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 6: months would bring more gains. 274 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,599 Speaker 2: Take a quick breath on that, Jim, We're going to 275 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 2: have much more time straight ahead with Jim Kesler and 276 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:12,199 Speaker 2: Rick Davis. 277 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the 278 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 279 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com. And the Bloomberg Business app. 280 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 281 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 282 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 2: And all Senators classified briefing is set for a bit 283 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 2: later today, a briefing on Ukraine that will feature President 284 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 2: Zelenski himself via zoom to make a last ditch pitch 285 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 2: for funding. But Senators just got a whole bunch more 286 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 2: news here. We're going to talk about this. We'll talk 287 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 2: through all of it in fact with our panel, Jim 288 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 2: Kesler from Third Way, Democratic analyst and Republican strategist, Rick Davis, 289 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 2: BLOOMBERGOL contributors or with us here with breaking news now 290 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 2: NBC and Politico both reporting that the coach relents, Senator 291 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 2: Tommy Tuberville is releasing his holds. He's lifting his holds 292 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 2: on a number of military promotions that of course have 293 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 2: been held up for months here in his lone man 294 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 2: protest against the abortion travel policy at the Pentagon details Now, 295 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 2: this happened behind closed doors at a GOP lunch in 296 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 2: a short time ago. Tubberville will release holds except for 297 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 2: four stars. We actually told you about this in reporting 298 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago that this might be the 299 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: off ramp, the form that this takes. Let them all go, 300 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 2: but the four stars. Let these families who have been 301 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 2: holding personal decisions, keeping kids out of school, not being 302 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 2: able to move and so forth, let them go and 303 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 2: get some movement here. This of course following a rule 304 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 2: change that Senator Chuck Schumer brought forth. And that's where 305 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 2: we'll start with our panel here, Jim Kessler. They said 306 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 2: it would take Republicans to end this. Was it in 307 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 2: fact Chuck Schumer that paved the road? 308 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 4: Well he did. 309 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 6: And you know, let's give credit to Mitch McConnell on 310 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 6: this too, because you know he wanted this to end 311 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 6: as well. Trooperville caved. Let's be clear, he should have 312 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 6: caved six months ago. We have too many performance artists 313 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 6: in the US Congress and in the US Senate right now. 314 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 6: This was an absolute pointless waste of time for the 315 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 6: United States Senate. Our military leaders did not need this. 316 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 6: Congratulations to Chuck Schumer for you know, twisting his arms, 317 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 6: and congratulations from Mitch McConnell for showing his impatience on this. 318 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 2: What do you think, Rick Davis, We've talked about this 319 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 2: a lot. We've even had Tommy Tuberville come on to 320 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 2: defend his position. Here. Was it that rule change? Was 321 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 2: it the threat of finally have Republicans point him in 322 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 2: a different direction that changed his view? Yeah? 323 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 5: Absolutely, I mean nothing else actually happened. In fact, as 324 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 5: I understand from the reporting, he even said that the 325 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 5: deal he would like to do is he'll lift the 326 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 5: hold on four hundred nominations for confirmation. If Republicans chose 327 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 5: to vote against the standing rule, that would have undermined 328 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 5: his ability to block any of them. So look, I mean, 329 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 5: nobody wanted to change the Senate rule. They shouldn't have 330 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 5: had to. As Jim Kessler said that none of this 331 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 5: should have been happening. Along the way, Tommy Tubberville, the coach, 332 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 5: did a lot to diminish our military and his sort 333 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 5: of performance art around abortion. And at the end of 334 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 5: the day, he's not going to get anything other than 335 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 5: now a group of four stars who have to cowtow 336 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 5: to him in order to get their confirmations passed. I mean, 337 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 5: why you would let four hundred nominations go forward and 338 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 5: hold up the people who are most responsible for making 339 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 5: the decisions about our country's security abroad and keep them 340 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 5: locked up. It makes no sense. But nothing he has 341 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 5: done on this issue has made much sense today. 342 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 2: What is the point of that, Jim, Is that sort 343 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 2: of the equivalent of the you know, the the top 344 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 2: one percent, they're elitists or something. He's disparaged high ranking 345 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 2: generals before saying they're staff does all the work is 346 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 2: at the point of that delineation with the four stars. 347 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 6: So you're asking me to get into the head of 348 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 6: these senators Alabama here. It's not a place I generally 349 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 6: try and tread. Look, I think he's trying to get 350 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 6: some big leaf from showing that he's still standing on 351 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 6: some sort of principle while he beats a belated but 352 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 6: at this point haste to retreat. You know, there is 353 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 6: this myth that there's wokeness in the arts and in 354 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 6: the military that I think is that again, I think 355 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 6: it plays on social media and on some cable channels, 356 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 6: and you know, we just have too much, too many 357 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 6: people playing to the bleachers on this in the United 358 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 6: States Senate. And he backed down ninety five percent of 359 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 6: the way, you know, hopefully back down the other five 360 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 6: percent when you know there's there's no victory for him 361 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 6: to find here. 362 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 2: Well, I wonder what plane of the bleachers means for 363 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 2: border reform here, Rick, because that's what we were getting 364 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 2: to at the top of the hour. Here this pitch 365 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 2: from top brass in Ukraine trying to unlock funding here 366 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 2: in the US, having heard from the White House that 367 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,719 Speaker 2: they're out of money. We're all out of money in 368 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 2: funding this war effort by the end of the year. 369 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 2: It all hinges on a border deal, though we know that, 370 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 2: and the language from those who are directly involved is remarkable. 371 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 2: Senator corn And to NBC News, this is not a 372 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,199 Speaker 2: traditional negotiation. This is a price that has to be 373 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 2: paid in order to get the supplemental. They're not interested 374 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,479 Speaker 2: in dancing with Democrats here. They want a certain measure 375 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 2: of reform here that's going to have to unlock the 376 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 2: Ukraine money. Speaker Johnson says, it's HR two or nothing. Now, 377 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 2: look at Jim Langford, Republican, who's leading the negotiations. He says, 378 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 2: we're going to get it resolved. But I'm got to 379 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 2: pick up twenty senators, twenty Democrats rather in the Senate 380 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 2: to get to sixty. Chris Murphy says, I understand the 381 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 2: consequences of the tactic Republicans have decided to use, and 382 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 2: it's Vladimir Putin marching into Europe. Does this sound like 383 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 2: we're close to a deal? Rick, Yeah, it actually does. 384 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 4: That means there's press rise. 385 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 5: Just a couple of days ago we were talking about 386 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 5: they killed the negotiation. On Friday, everybody went home. We 387 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 5: thought there'd be progress. 388 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 2: There wasn't. 389 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 5: Now after twenty four hours in town, we've got all 390 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 5: these different scenarios and ironically, none of them have anything 391 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 5: to do with the policy that Republicans are trying to 392 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 5: get embedded. It's like, how do you count votes? And look, 393 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 5: this is how Washington works. It used to be called 394 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 5: a trade. 395 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 2: I'll give you. 396 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 5: What you want if you give me what I want, 397 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 5: and we'll call that a deal. 398 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 2: Now it's called extortion. 399 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 5: If you want funding for Ukraine and for Israel and 400 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 5: for Taiwan, then you have to give me my southern 401 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 5: border funding the way I want it and the rules 402 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 5: that go along with it. I actually think this is 403 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 5: a positive. It's a crappy way to do business. Welcome 404 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 5: to Washington. But if we could get border security or 405 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 5: some you know, sort of manifestation of that along with 406 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 5: funding these important fights that the West is endorsed. You know, 407 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 5: I'll take it as I can get it, As ambassad 408 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 5: Volker said, if you got that bill in front of 409 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 5: the House, it doesn't matter what the speaker says. They're 410 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 5: three hundred and fifty votes. They're going to say, let's 411 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 5: go forward. 412 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 2: Isn't that something Jim Kesseler, you worked for Chuck Schumer, 413 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 2: maybe you can get into his bran a little bit here, 414 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 2: because Jim Langford, who's actually touching Democrats, he's he's actually 415 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 2: dealing with this in a real way and leading negotiations, 416 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 2: says HR two did not get a single Democrat vote 417 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 2: in the House. So what does Chuck Schumer think he 418 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 2: can sell Democrats in the Senate. 419 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 6: Well, let me just say first, I think Rick Davis 420 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 6: is right. I looked at this blow up and by 421 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 6: first thought was I think they're getting close to a deal. 422 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 6: I mean, it's always darkest before the dawn. And you 423 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 6: know the truth is is that the right people are 424 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 6: in the room on this. And you know Chris Murphy 425 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 6: is the right Democrat. Pearston cinema former Democrat now and independent. 426 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 6: She's the right person in the room. The Republicans there, 427 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 6: Langford and others like they're the right people, and this 428 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,719 Speaker 6: feels like something is going to get done, and you know, 429 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 6: I think Schumer probably feels this way as well. I 430 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 6: just want to say though, on the border, that look, 431 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 6: Republicans have always had an advantage on this issue because 432 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 6: if nothing gets done, if there's chaos at the border, 433 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 6: it benefits Republicans politically, and that's been the way it's 434 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 6: been for over twenty years now. So they get to 435 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 6: play a stronger hand on this and force Democratic concessions 436 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 6: because walking away bears very little price for them. But 437 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 6: I'm fairly optimistic that we're going to get something done, 438 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 6: more so than I was forty eight hours ago. 439 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 2: Does it include actual asylum law changed? 440 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 6: Jim My guess is though will be some asylum law changes. 441 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 6: I mean, there's plenty of Democrats who agree that there 442 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 6: needs to be some changes to asylum. And you need 443 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,959 Speaker 6: to create a system that is you know, fair, fast 444 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 6: and final with asylum. But it has to be fair 445 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 6: and it has to be you know, a coherent, fast system. 446 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 6: It can't be a complete closed door, which some Republicans want. 447 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 6: Their asylum is legit, but it does need reforms. 448 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 2: I hope people appreciate what we have going here on 449 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 2: this program. These are two individuals in Jim and Rick, 450 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 2: who have actually been in the room for these kind 451 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 2: of negotiations. You can find a lot of places where 452 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 2: we'll have a panel scream at each other and get nowhere, 453 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 2: but these are the real insights. 454 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,400 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us 455 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 456 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on 457 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 458 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 2: Senator Tommy Tuberville and his single man blockade against military 459 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 2: promotions and protest of the panic on abortion travel policy, 460 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 2: which we've talked about endlessly here on this program. He 461 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 2: appears to be buckling the pressure from within his own party, 462 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 2: knowing that there was a rule change that would allow 463 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 2: them to move these promotions on block and Chuck Schumer 464 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 2: now says that he does plan to move military promotions 465 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 2: as soon as possible. It's not all of them, though, 466 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 2: Tuberville says he's lifting the hold on all promotions shy 467 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 2: of four star generals, and we're trying to get our 468 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 2: heads around the logic there, but this is moving as 469 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 2: we have a grand debate over border security underway here, 470 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 2: a big ask on Ukraine, as we talked about earlier. 471 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 2: President Zelenski speaking remotely with senators and classified all senators 472 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 2: briefing today, and we have a lot to talk about 473 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 2: with Stephanie Murphy, the former congresswoman from Florida, is with us, 474 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 2: who of course served on the January sixth committee. Back 475 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 2: with us at the table today in Washington. Welcome back 476 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 2: to the capital. It's lovely to have you, and it's 477 00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 2: good to see you. I didn't think i'd be talking 478 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 2: about Tommy Talk reveal today. And I know that you 479 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 2: have a background at the Defense Department, and it's something 480 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 2: we discussed before in a state of course that you 481 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 2: represented teaming with veterans and active members of the military. 482 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 2: Why would you stop at four stars? Do you get that? 483 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 7: I don't actually get it, and I think it's incredibly 484 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 7: damaging to our Defense Department, but also to our national security. 485 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 7: We are in a situation where we have a ground 486 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 7: war in Europe, we have war in the Middle East. 487 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 7: We need leadership in those post like yesterday, and so 488 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 7: I've never really understood why he wanted to hold those 489 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 7: things up, putting our national security at jeopardy for his 490 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 7: own personal political motives. 491 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 2: Well, you know, even when we asked him here at Bloomberg, 492 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 2: he seemed to kind of resent the upper ranks of 493 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,719 Speaker 2: the military as being elitist, is relying on staff. They 494 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 2: don't do a lot, They didn't get a lot done. Anyway, 495 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 2: he was quoted as saying, never mind the whole wokeism 496 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 2: and all of that, is that what this is some 497 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 2: kind of poke at elitism in the military. 498 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 7: You know, if you work at the Department of Defense, 499 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 7: you know that the general officers and the flag officers 500 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 7: provide incredible leadership. And our system of leadership in our 501 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 7: military is the advantage that we have over a lot 502 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 7: of our adversaries. You know, when you look at the 503 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 7: Russian War, like they talk about how Russia's army is 504 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 7: basically failing because they don't have good military leadership. So 505 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 7: I don't think that he's right in criticizing our flag 506 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 7: and general officer ranks. They provide important role in both 507 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 7: the Department and as well as out in the field. 508 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 2: Well, I felt like it's worth asking someone who's actually 509 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 2: done this before, because you hear a lot from folks 510 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 2: who have never served, never worked for DoD and it's 511 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 2: an easy target. Sometimes. In the case of Tommy Teberville, 512 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 2: you wonder if this chink in the armor, it's more 513 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 2: than that. Obviously more than half of the promotions he's 514 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 2: been holding up or being lifted. But maybe this leads 515 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 2: to him to stand down altogether. Republicans be the ones 516 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 2: to make that happen. 517 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 7: I certainly hope so. Republicans for so long have wrapped 518 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 7: themselves in the American flag. Supposedly, the people who support 519 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 7: the military, support law enforcement, are supposed to be strong 520 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 7: on national security. For them to have somebody who's never 521 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 7: served in uniform, might I stand in the way of 522 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 7: these confirmations, is really kind of shameful. I'm glad that 523 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 7: they've finally approved enough pressure on him that he's standing down, 524 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 7: but he needs to stand all the way down and 525 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 7: allow the four stars to get confirmed as well. 526 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 2: It's pretty remarkable how long this has been going on for. 527 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 2: There's a lot more to talk about, as I mentioned here, 528 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 2: and boy, it must be days like these you missed 529 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 2: the job. I say that sarcastically, because we've got a 530 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 2: lot on the line, and it's riding on a deal 531 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 2: on border security. We spent the last hour with Jim 532 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 2: Kessler and Rick Davis, who both were encouraged by some 533 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,479 Speaker 2: of the rhetoric, the frustration, the exasperation that we're hearing 534 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 2: from members on both sides, suggesting that that is used 535 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: the darkest before dawn kind of moment here. What are 536 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 2: you hearing from your former colleagues and having been in 537 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 2: the middle of this yourself, are we capable of doing 538 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 2: this right now? 539 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 7: Well, the Congress is so narrowly held, both in the 540 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 7: Senate and in the House, and the House has demonstrated 541 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,959 Speaker 7: that it is quite chaotic, this Congress, So is it 542 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 7: capable of anything. 543 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 2: It's kind of figure outw to fund the government, that's. 544 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 7: Right, and they've kicked that can down the road into 545 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 7: next year. But they're really trying to focus on this 546 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 7: supplemental that addresses Israel and Indo Pacific as well as 547 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 7: Ukraine and border security. But you have to have people 548 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 7: who are willing to negotiate and to get to yes. 549 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 7: And my understanding is over the weekend, the Republicans doubled 550 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 7: down on positions that just aren't going to be palatable 551 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 7: and aren't in a place of moving off of those 552 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 7: or even trying to find common ground. Hopefully, as we 553 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 7: get closer to the day that they get to leave 554 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 7: for the holiday, that will create some pressure and get 555 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 7: people in a more positive mood maybe willing to negotiate. 556 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 2: So what's the fault line for Democrats? Because we're hearing 557 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 2: from members, particularly those who might be up for reelection, 558 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 2: that they might be open to changes to asylum law 559 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 2: in principle, changes to parole that allow the president to 560 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 2: make humanitarian exceptions might be a bridge too far. Where 561 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 2: are the fault lines in this? 562 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 7: You know, I think any changes in the policy has 563 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 7: to also begin with bolstering our actual border security. So 564 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 7: none of the programs that we have in place for 565 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 7: people to seek asylum or legal status in the United 566 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 7: States really work unless we actually know who's coming in 567 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 7: and out. And so that's really the first line that 568 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,239 Speaker 7: they have to be able to agree on, is that 569 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 7: some amount of resources for border security, and then we 570 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 7: can look at changing our programs and creating legal pathways, 571 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 7: whether that's asylum or an expanded visa program. And you know, 572 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 7: we're really starting to talk about maybe a little more 573 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 7: comprehensive immigration reform that has all of those free elements, 574 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 7: which would be you don't have enough time for that. 575 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 2: We've been waiting a generation for that to happen. There 576 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 2: was a quote from John Cornyn that jumped off the 577 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 2: page to me in a conversation with NBC News. This 578 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 2: is not a traditional negotiation. This is a price that 579 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 2: has to be paid in order to get the supplemental 580 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 2: which sounds like extortion. 581 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 7: You know, this is something that happens in Washington all 582 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 7: the time. When there is broad five partisan support, as 583 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 7: there is for Ukraine funding or Israel funding, it becomes 584 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 7: a leverage point for something that has a little less 585 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 7: support and is a little more difficult. And I think 586 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 7: that's why you see the supplemental funding lumped together with 587 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 7: border security. 588 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 2: Well, so maybe this is an opportunity, though maybe I 589 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 2: don't know if you're optimistic about this or not. Do 590 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 2: we flip this around and say that this is in 591 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,959 Speaker 2: fact an opportunity to finally unlock an agreement on border 592 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 2: funding because of the urgency behind Ukraine and Israel. 593 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,959 Speaker 7: I certainly hope. So I'm an optimist, and I think that, 594 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 7: you know, maybe one of the interesting outcome of having 595 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 7: such narrowly held congresses and divided government is a push 596 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 7: to more bipartisanship because you can't get it done with 597 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:08,479 Speaker 7: just one party anymore. 598 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 2: Sure right, Wouldn't Democrats love to go on the trail 599 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 2: this year though, and say, hey, we helped to solve 600 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 2: the border crisis. 601 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 7: I think they need toy. The president needs this. He 602 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 7: needs to not only be able to have a win 603 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 7: as it relates to foreign policy and national security, but 604 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 7: also domestic border security. 605 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 2: Your governor in Florida certainly talks about it a lot. 606 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 2: Sure would would that take the teeth out of that 607 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 2: argument for Joe Biden even in the presidential campaign trail, 608 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 2: because he'll have to face this one way or the other. 609 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 7: I think it would defang at least one of the 610 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 7: attack lines against him. I think the American people feel 611 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 7: both some economic insecurity as well as some physical insecurity, 612 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 7: and this would at least address the physical security part 613 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 7: in some measure if they felt like we were addressing 614 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 7: the border security issues. 615 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 2: Do you believe the administration that Ukraine is out of money? 616 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 2: Who were out of time? 617 00:32:58,560 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 8: You know? 618 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 7: I believe that Congress likes to test those deadlines. 619 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 2: You know when they test. 620 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 9: I'm not sure I. 621 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 7: Would, but I'm somebody who believes in supporting our allies 622 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 7: and fighting against authoritarians. But that's what you know. Congress 623 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 7: works best when it has a deadline, and they've put 624 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 7: that deadline out at the end of the year. Hopefully 625 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 7: they can clear this out of the way so that 626 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 7: when they come back from the holiday break they can 627 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 7: focus on appropriations. 628 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 2: Funding concept, actual spending bills. Congresswoman, how dare you? We're 629 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 2: spending time with Stephanie Murphy, the congresswoman from Florida. Mike 630 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 2: Johnson speaking today the Speaker of the House about the 631 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 2: January sixth committee, and I thought, okay, well, we need 632 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 2: to get the congresswoman's reaction to this. I don't know 633 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 2: if you heard what he said, but a couple of 634 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 2: days ago he decided to release all of the security 635 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 2: footage from January sixth. Today he implied that more needs 636 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 2: to be done to obscure the faces of the rioters 637 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 2: before the rest is released, so they are not somehow 638 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 2: targeted by DOJ And he went on to say this 639 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 2: about the work of the committee. This is literally just 640 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 2: a couple of hours ago. Speaker Mike Johnson, I think. 641 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 8: The January sixth committee was a partisan exercise. They claimed 642 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 8: that it was bipartisan, but I think we all recognized 643 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 8: that the two Republican members that served on that committee 644 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 8: had another agenda. I think that what we got was 645 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 8: a biased report. I think they hit some of the 646 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 8: important evidence. And look, we want the American people to 647 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 8: draw their own conclusions. 648 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 2: And they will by hearing conversations like these, So I 649 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 2: want you to react or respond the way that you 650 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 2: see fit. But knowing that Mike Johnson tried to help 651 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 2: overturn the twenty twenty election results in writing that amicus 652 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 2: brief on the Texas case, what is he trying to 653 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 2: do here? 654 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 7: You know, it's really deeply disappointing that the Speaker of 655 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 7: the House is trying to shield people who actually attacked 656 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 7: the House in the Capitol physically on January sixth. But 657 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 7: it isn't surprising, as you said, he was a part 658 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 7: of one of the efforts to overturn the outcome of 659 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 7: a free and fair election. But it should underscore for 660 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 7: Americans the importance of this coming election. Imagine if on 661 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 7: January sixth, we have a Speaker Johnson with the gabble, 662 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 7: and he's able to delay the certification of presidential which 663 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 7: was what they tried to do on January sixth. The 664 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 7: purpose was to delay the certification. I think we'd be 665 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 7: in a lot of trouble as a democracy. And so, 666 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:38,959 Speaker 7: you know, we are seeing signs all over the place 667 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,320 Speaker 7: how important this next election is. And I know everybody 668 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,399 Speaker 7: always says this is the most important election for years, 669 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 7: every four years, but I honestly. 670 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 2: Was more important every four years. 671 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 7: Why well, when we're looking at the possibility of walking 672 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 7: ourselves into electing a dictator or somebody who intends to 673 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 7: use authoritarian means to govern. You know, I believe the 674 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 7: former present when he says he will seek retribution when 675 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 7: he lives up to the things that he promises that 676 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 7: he's going to do. And so I think that's a 677 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 7: really a dangerous situation to put our democracy. 678 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,800 Speaker 2: You think reelecting Donald Trump is electing a dictator. 679 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 7: He has made statements about how he plans on using 680 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 7: his power, about how he plans on changing the Department 681 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 7: of Justice, about how he plans on going after political opponents. 682 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 2: You think it meets that definition. 683 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 7: I definitely think it has shades of authoritarianism and definitely 684 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 7: is not democratic democratic. 685 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 2: Let me push it a step further. Liz Cheney was 686 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,720 Speaker 2: on TV this morning, and her book has been quite 687 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 2: the trove of over the past couple of days. The 688 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,399 Speaker 2: book just being released today, I believe. She was asked 689 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 2: by NBC News if Donald Trump was elected, if he 690 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:53,280 Speaker 2: would ever leave, if you would attempt to overstay his term. 691 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 2: She said one hundred percent yes, that if he is 692 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 2: re elected, he will try to hold onto power as 693 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 2: long as possible and never leave the White House. Do 694 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 2: you agree with that? 695 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 7: You might remember that the former president remarked in awe 696 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 7: at President She's ability to make himself stay in. 697 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 2: Power for rests Stump speech now right. 698 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,720 Speaker 7: And so in January sixth was an attempt to stay. 699 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 7: The difference was that there were people involved who stood 700 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 7: up to him, Republicans primarily, who wouldn't let their commitment 701 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 7: to him override their commitment to this country. I'm not 702 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,280 Speaker 7: sure we'll be so lucky the next time. 703 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 2: It must be strange for you to rationalize the work 704 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 2: that you did on the January sixth Committee as a 705 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,399 Speaker 2: career defining moment. You can correct me if I'm wrong. 706 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 2: You've been lauded for it. You'll be awarded again for 707 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,879 Speaker 2: it tomorrow in New York. To rationalize that with what 708 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 2: you're hearing from the Speaker of the House today was 709 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 2: such an extreme contrast. 710 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 7: You know, to me, my service on January sixth was 711 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,399 Speaker 7: a patriotic thing to do. I love this country, and 712 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 7: I know you know you fight hard in campaigns for 713 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 7: your team to win, but when you don't, you accept 714 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 7: the loss and you have a peaceful transfer of power. 715 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 7: That's core to maintaining our democracy is a peaceful transfer 716 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 7: of power. And I couldn't believe that, as somebody who 717 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 7: had escaped a country that made political transitions through violence, 718 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 7: that I found myself on January sixth hiding in the 719 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 7: basement of the Capitol while my fellow Americans ransacked the 720 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 7: building in an effort to overturn the elections. So my 721 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,359 Speaker 7: service on January sixth was my patriotic duty to shed 722 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 7: light on what happened and to ensure that it never 723 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 7: happens again. 724 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,399 Speaker 2: Incredible. I appreciate your answering that the way you did. 725 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 2: Stephanie Murphy, the former congresswoman Democrat from Florida, thank you 726 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,320 Speaker 2: for always being with us when you come to Washington. 727 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 2: It's great to see you again. I've bet a great Thanksgiving. 728 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 2: Happy new You're in advance if we don't see it 729 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 2: before then, but we'll try to fix that. I'm Joe 730 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 2: Matthew on the fastest show in Politics. Stay with us 731 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 2: US here on the radio, on the satellite, and on YouTube. 732 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:04,280 Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg. 733 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the 734 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 735 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,800 Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 736 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 737 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:25,280 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 738 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 2: Not a very fun day in the classroom for the 739 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:33,280 Speaker 2: presidents of some of America's top universities today, including Harvard. 740 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 2: This hearing underway on Capitol Hill that we told you 741 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 2: about with the presidents of Harvard, Mit, and Penn. It 742 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 2: has to do with anti semitism on campus, and you 743 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,760 Speaker 2: can imagine where lawmakers are going on this. They've received 744 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,839 Speaker 2: enormous criticism for the language and the actions that we've 745 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 2: heard and seen from pro Palestinian protesters on these campuses. 746 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 2: Here's a taste with Harvard President Gay, who is speaking 747 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 2: with at least Dephonic earlier, Claudine Gay of Harvard. Again 748 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 2: with your counterparts from pen and mights he here's Stephonic 749 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 2: and Gay in the hearing earlier. 750 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:13,880 Speaker 10: I will say again that type of hateful speech is 751 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 10: personally abhorrent to me. 752 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,799 Speaker 11: Do you believe that type of hateful speech is contrary 753 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,760 Speaker 11: to Harvard's code of conduct? Or is it allowed at Harvard? 754 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,400 Speaker 10: It is at odds with the values of Harvard. 755 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 11: Can you not say here that it is against the 756 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,240 Speaker 11: code of conduct at Harvard? 757 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 10: We embrace a commitment to free expression, even of views 758 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 10: that are objectionable, offensive, hateful. It's when that speech crosses 759 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,240 Speaker 10: into conduct that violates our policies against bullying. 760 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,280 Speaker 11: Does that speech not cost that barrier? Does that speech 761 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,759 Speaker 11: not call for the genocide of Jews and the elimination 762 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 11: of Israel. 763 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 2: That's more of what I expect here, and we could 764 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,439 Speaker 2: keep going with it as we introduce Wendy Benjamins into 765 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 2: the conversation of Chris Bloomberg's senior Washington editor in a 766 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 2: regular voice here on the program. This is an interesting 767 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 2: exercise because I'm not sure anything comes of it. Will 768 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 2: there be new policies or is this just a public 769 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 2: scolding from some angry lawmakers. 770 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 9: Well, that's what the lawmakers exactly are saying, is that 771 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 9: these are very nice words that doctor Gay and the 772 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 9: others are saying that they don't tolerate hate speech, and 773 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 9: they don't tolerate their students feeling threatened, etc. 774 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 10: Etc. 775 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 9: But Okay, then what's next seems to be the big 776 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,839 Speaker 9: question here? Are they going to institute policies? And there's 777 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 9: a very fine line between instituting policies against threatening speech 778 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 9: and squelching the freedom of speech on a university campus 779 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 9: where one is supposed to be able to air all 780 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 9: the views. So I don't envy being in the presidence 781 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,200 Speaker 9: of the university's shoes. On the other hand, right outside 782 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,360 Speaker 9: the hearing room, as our field producer Tyler Kendall was 783 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 9: telling us, there were it was incredibly angry and like 784 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,439 Speaker 9: pre fight pushing and stuff like that from pro Palestinian 785 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 9: protesters at pro Israeli protesters. So it was going on 786 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,439 Speaker 9: in real time just outside the door. 787 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, really incredible optics here, And you wonder if it's 788 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 2: not lawmakers who will end up make a difference, but 789 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 2: very wealthy alumni right who are not only protesting think 790 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 2: of Bill Ackman, think of even Mitt Romney, but pulling 791 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 2: back on money. 792 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 9: Right, some of them, who are some of the best 793 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,319 Speaker 9: grassroots fundraisers for these universities, have decided, I mean in 794 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 9: terms of collecting other alumni donations and giving them. They 795 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,920 Speaker 9: are down to one dollar donations in protests. And then 796 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 9: while this hearing was going on, a group of U 797 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 9: Penn students sued the university in a Philadelphia court for 798 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:52,239 Speaker 9: not doing enough to protect them on campus. So it's 799 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 9: just a very very tense and difficult. This is almost 800 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 9: the culmination of what's been happening on campuses for a while. Yes, 801 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 9: as a lot of views are being heard, the word 802 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 9: you didn't always be heard on campuses. 803 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:09,080 Speaker 2: Listen to Penn's Liz McGill. Everyone has their own approach 804 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,000 Speaker 2: here and how she interacted with lawmakers today. 805 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,759 Speaker 12: This is from opening Anti Semitism, an old, viral and 806 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 12: pernicious evil has been steadily rising in our society, and 807 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 12: these world events have dramatically accelerated that surge. Few places 808 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 12: have proven immune, including Philadelphia and campuses like ours. This 809 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 12: is unacceptable. We immediately investigate any hateful act, cooperating with 810 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,239 Speaker 12: both law enforcement and the FBI. Where we have identified 811 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 12: individuals who've committed these acts in violation of either policy 812 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:45,280 Speaker 12: or law, we initiate disciplinary proceedings and engage law enforcement. 813 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,960 Speaker 2: Isn't that a more effective message? Here's the action which. 814 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,400 Speaker 9: Takes Yes, that is a much just what I was 815 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,600 Speaker 9: thinking before you as that much more effective message, much 816 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,400 Speaker 9: more calming congress down, much more calming down. And what 817 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 9: they really don't want is any federal oversight or pulling 818 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,480 Speaker 9: back of grants or things like that that these that 819 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,880 Speaker 9: I mean, this is a pocketbook issue for these universities, 820 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 9: not only alumni donations as we mentioned earlier, but students 821 00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,080 Speaker 9: not wanting to go there, and then of course the 822 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 9: federal government pulling back on on any large ass they 823 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 9: give they give the university. So yes, I think here's 824 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 9: what I'm going to do about it. Isn't better response. 825 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,600 Speaker 2: We'll see what comes, if anything, of this hearing and 826 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,799 Speaker 2: talk about it with our pal Wendy Benjaminson. But it's 827 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,839 Speaker 2: a debate. We're looking forward to tomorrow night. We got 828 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,520 Speaker 2: the lineup only for this time, right. Actually, this is terrible. 829 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 2: I had to stop and think, well, wait, who else 830 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:33,319 Speaker 2: was there? 831 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:33,440 Speaker 11: Was? 832 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 2: Tim Scott? 833 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 9: Was Tim Scott the last time? 834 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,759 Speaker 2: I don't know if that makes a difference for any 835 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 2: of these four. It's going to be DeSantis, Haley, Christy Ramaswami. 836 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 2: What's the strategy for any of them? 837 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:46,879 Speaker 1: Is this? 838 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 2: I mean, who's watching? Does it matter? This is the 839 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,960 Speaker 2: big race for second big deal right. 840 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 9: Right exactly our college Philip Bump and the Washington Post 841 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,319 Speaker 9: had a headline today that said, Nikki Haley surges dot 842 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,360 Speaker 9: dot dot to double digits. 843 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,640 Speaker 2: You know, this is to thirty points behind Trump, right. 844 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:12,120 Speaker 9: I think there is still benefit in hearing from the alternatives. 845 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,560 Speaker 9: You know, Trump is on a glide path to win 846 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 9: Iowa and go on and on and win the nomination. 847 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,360 Speaker 9: On the other hand, the governor endorsed somebody else. Nikki 848 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,160 Speaker 9: Hilly is doing well in New Hampshire. There is a 849 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 9: lot of discomfit among you know, Republicans with Donald Trump, 850 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 9: and so if they are looking for an alternative. Okay, 851 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,880 Speaker 9: your chart shows Hally as ten percent to Donald Trumps 852 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,280 Speaker 9: sixty one. You know, maybe there's twenty twenty eight. 853 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,759 Speaker 2: After and that's nationally realizing she's doing better in New 854 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,239 Speaker 2: Hampshire she's doing. You know. Alan Lickman was calling us 855 00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,879 Speaker 2: out on Balance of Power last evening for being part 856 00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,439 Speaker 2: of essentially a media narrative that this is some sort 857 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 2: of mainstream media narrative that there's no real difference between 858 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:54,759 Speaker 2: what Nikki Haley and Ronda Santis are doing. They're both 859 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 2: losing badly to Donald Trump. 860 00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,200 Speaker 9: Well at the moment they are. But he does have 861 00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,520 Speaker 9: a point that let's see what happens when the votes 862 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:02,000 Speaker 9: are taken. 863 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,600 Speaker 2: Yes, but do you qualify momentum as a real thing, 864 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,160 Speaker 2: because that's what we're talking about here. 865 00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 9: Well, yeah, I mean momentum works until it doesn't, right, 866 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 9: I mean he has momentum and then he could say 867 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,160 Speaker 9: something as she has. She does have moments. 868 00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,240 Speaker 2: Described as a wounded bird if you asked right. 869 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,840 Speaker 9: Right, he is getting. The attention he's getting is increasingly negative. 870 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:27,400 Speaker 9: The attention she is getting Haley is increasingly positive. She 871 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,520 Speaker 9: has also got the benefit of people who are looking 872 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,200 Speaker 9: whose primary goal is to stop Donald Trump from coming 873 00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,800 Speaker 9: back to the White House, and it doesn't really matter 874 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:39,880 Speaker 9: to them who it is as long as it's not 875 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:44,520 Speaker 9: Donald Trump. Jamie Diamond was suggesting that even Democrats give 876 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 9: to Nicki Haley, and I think Reid Hoffman today gave 877 00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,319 Speaker 9: to Nicki Haley two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. That's 878 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,799 Speaker 9: not jump change. And so you know, yes, I guess 879 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,440 Speaker 9: she does have momentum. The question is will it be 880 00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,719 Speaker 9: enough to beat him in a significant state of course, 881 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,400 Speaker 9: right after New Hampshire for the Republicans of South Carolina, 882 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:03,560 Speaker 9: her home state. 883 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:05,440 Speaker 2: And a chance to codify what may. 884 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,040 Speaker 9: Have just happened right exactly. With Tim Scott out of 885 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,160 Speaker 9: the running, he was the South Carolina Senator. That could 886 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,759 Speaker 9: be that South Carolinians will come around for her. On 887 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,440 Speaker 9: the other hand, he got tremendously cheered at a stadium 888 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:19,359 Speaker 9: in South Carolina a couple of weeks ago. 889 00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 2: I have to ask you, Wendy, while you're with us, 890 00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 2: about whether young people are showing up. This new youth 891 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:30,440 Speaker 2: vote poll from Harvard the Institute for Politics pretty interesting. Here. 892 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,359 Speaker 2: It finds just forty nine percent of eighteen to twenty 893 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,360 Speaker 2: nine year olds definitely planned to vote for president forty 894 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:41,320 Speaker 2: nine percent. That's down from fifty seven percent in twenty nineteen. 895 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:42,799 Speaker 12: Was good. 896 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,799 Speaker 2: One Hispanic Americans had the steepest drop Black American Young 897 00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:51,759 Speaker 2: Black American voter's second steepest. They've basically ruled out both 898 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,160 Speaker 2: of these old guys. As they see it, they are 899 00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,759 Speaker 2: what we called double haters. That's right, Okay, if you're 900 00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:58,640 Speaker 2: looking at eighteen to thirty year olds, though, that's coming 901 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,960 Speaker 2: out of Joe Biden's side, if anywhere, it. 902 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,200 Speaker 9: Is largely coming out of Joe Biden's height. I'm sure 903 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,799 Speaker 9: there are young people to support Donald Trump, but yes, 904 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 9: mostly the reason they turned out so much in twenty 905 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,160 Speaker 9: sixteen and twenty twenty, well, first let's start at they 906 00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:16,080 Speaker 9: turned out incredibly in two thousand and eight to elect 907 00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,360 Speaker 9: Barack Obama because that was going to be part of history, 908 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,160 Speaker 9: and it's fun to be part of history. But twenty 909 00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,600 Speaker 9: sixteen and twenty twenty, it was an anti Trump movement, 910 00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,880 Speaker 9: and Biden seemed like their kind of guy, and he 911 00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,680 Speaker 9: promised a lot of things on climate and student loans 912 00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,839 Speaker 9: and all these things. Well, here we are four years later, 913 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:34,799 Speaker 9: and the bill has come due, and we have an 914 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,960 Speaker 9: eighty one year old Democratic president and a seventy eight 915 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,799 Speaker 9: year old likely challenger and people eighteen to thirty. I mean, 916 00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,760 Speaker 9: these guys are their grandparents' age. They just don't see 917 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,200 Speaker 9: they don't see politics the same way. They don't see 918 00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,640 Speaker 9: the world the same way. They've grown up in a 919 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:54,200 Speaker 9: completely different world than these guys did, and so yes, 920 00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,680 Speaker 9: I think their thought is forget it, I'll just stay home, 921 00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,399 Speaker 9: which is terrible because we need their voice here. 922 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,080 Speaker 2: We are, I guess six months to a year. But 923 00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,120 Speaker 2: the bill has come due, boy, and Wendy has receipts. 924 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:08,719 Speaker 2: It's great to see you as always, Wendy Benjamins in 925 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:13,160 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Washington, Senior Editor. Thanks for listening to the Sound 926 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,800 Speaker 2: On podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, 927 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,799 Speaker 2: at Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcasts, 928 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,800 Speaker 2: and you can find us live every weekday from Washington, 929 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:27,160 Speaker 2: DC at one pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com.