WEBVTT - Affairs in the Digital Age 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:05.240 I felt as if here I was hiding, I was 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:08.200 doing something that was wrong. I was scared to be caught. 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.039 I was actually having this quote unquote famous nap on 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:15.760 the Sunday, and I think my husband had come into 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:21.360 the room. Here I am, you know, sexting, pretending that 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:24.840 I'm having a nap, and I'm thinking you're really like 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:29.760 working as right now, as if why are you interrupting? Right? 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:37.240 That is Olivia. She's describing a moment where her husband 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:41.760 entered her bedroom and unwittingly interrupted her having an orgasm 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:46.120 after she read sexy texts from another man on her phone. See. 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:49.160 A few years ago, Olivia reconnected with an old coworker 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:54.880 and they started texting. Then they started sexting. Olivia had 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:59.600 been unhappily married for more than two decades, but then 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.840 a sold co worker came along and his texts became 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:08.320 a virtual affair that completely changed her life. I felt 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:10.360 very naive. I felt as if, oh my god, this 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:15.240 is such a taboo, like this is crazy. And I 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.240 remember telling this to my girlfriends and they said, immediately 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.160 change his name but the alias, because you really don't 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:26.000 want your husband seeing that. I'm Joe Piazza, when you're 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:29.279 listening to She Wants More, the podcast where real women 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:33.039 talk openly and honestly about the extra marital affairs that 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:39.679 have completely changed their lives. One thing that has really 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:42.920 struck me while interviewing women for this podcast is just 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:46.920 how much technology has changed the landscape of extra marital affairs. 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.160 The women I've talked to completely rely on technology to 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:55.400 meet men, to plan and execute their affairs, and to 0:01:55.480 --> 0:02:00.560 keep them a secret. Take Olivia, she conducted an entire 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:05.400 affair strictly on her smartphone. It was completely based on 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:08.440 getting text messages and voice memos from her old coworker. 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:14.000 Like we said earlier, nothing physical ever actually happened. Technology 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:19.680 has changed absolutely everything about having an affair, from dating 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.800 websites for married people and Facebook and Craigslist to burner 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:28.440 phones and WhatsApp. Technologies made it easier than ever for 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:33.800 women to step out. For example, Michelle. Michelle was on 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:37.120 the podcast a few episodes ago when she hit her 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.600 breaking point with her husband, she signed up for Ashley Madison. 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:45.239 And when Michelle signed up, within minutes, she started getting 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:49.680 all kinds of responses from all kinds of men. She 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:52.840 actually had to adjust her geography filter to make the 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:57.960 radius smaller. That's right, smaller, because there were just so 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:03.519 many available married men looking to meet married women close 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:07.240 to her house. I asked Michelle what she thought it 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:09.320 must have been like to be a woman in the 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:12.720 pre internet days who wanted to have an affair, back 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.919 in the Stone Age at the nineties, in early two thousands. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:21.200 Can you imagine being a woman pre internet who wants 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:24.000 to have an affair? Right? Did they just walk into 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.320 a bar? Right right? Lee, You're wedding me at home 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.320 and hope nobody found out? Like, I don't know, I 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:31.440 don't I mean, I mean, I think about that all 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:32.920 the time. I think maybe I need to talk to 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:36.160 more women who had affairs in the pre digital age 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.520 because it just seems so much easier now. Well, and 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:43.520 it seems easier to find somebody that's not in your 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:50.040 social circle because you could find somebody probably pre online 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.320 dating and stuff, but the chances are it's somebody that 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:57.880 you meet at work or something where there's likely to 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:05.160 be like overlap. You're right, yeah, yes, someone at church exactly. 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:11.560 But is it really that easy? I wanted to see 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:14.160 just how easy it was to find someone who wants 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:17.440 to have an affair online. So, along with my intrepid 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:21.520 producers Jab and Allie, we decided to sign up for 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:27.960 Ashley Madison. Have you create a profile? Okay, so relationship 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:33.680 status attached female, So use your name, You're like, no 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:38.640 one uses their real make up? Something. Time you put 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:45.320 in a greeting, Hey, sexy man, dear birth feels like 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:50.039 a lot of personal information. Something long term. I want 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:55.720 to say, cyber affair, erotic chat. Okay, okay, undecided, undecided, 0:04:55.760 --> 0:05:00.280 I'm undecided. Wait, fuck off? Why don't you to give 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.480 your weight? Do you have to give your weight on 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.560 any other dating thing? No, definitely not. You need your 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:11.280 height also, height, body type? You all right? I'm giving 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.599 my email. I guess people create fake emails for this, 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.120 right probably that's so all right. It's telling me to 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:21.600 add a disguised photo, disguise your identity, and add some 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:28.719 privacy to your photos. More about you? Okay, I'm a 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:38.000 forty something forty some thing writer, just here to explore. 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:44.680 You're all signed up? I have to verify my email. Yeah, 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:48.800 there's so many guys on there. Wow, I mean that 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:51.520 took us how long that was? Five minutes? And look 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:55.280 there's like bazillion men here, there's a bazillion man's kind 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:59.360 of cute you think handsome stud forty six Philadelphia. Oh 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.440 my god, they know and I'm in Philadelphia. Are not 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:03.919 even in Philadelphia. I don't think I gave them. I 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:11.480 didn't tell them anything. And that right there, that is 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:13.680 how easy it was for a woman to sign up 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.240 for a married person stating site that will deliver a 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.480 gazillion men for you to have an affair with within 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:25.159 a fifty mile radius of your house. We'll be back 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:36.440 after a short break. We're back. Technology has allowed individuals 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.279 to have affairs from the comfort of their own home. 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:42.839 You may be sitting next to your partner on the 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:46.719 couch and watching TV while also engaging an affair from 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:52.360 your smartphone. That's Jacklin Cravens Pickens. Jacqueline is a marriage 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.880 and family therapy professor at Texas Tech University and is 0:06:55.880 --> 0:07:00.240 also a licensed marriage and family therapist. Her research is 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:05.280 on relationships, technology, and monogamy. I called Jacqueline because she's 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.000 pretty much the leading expert out there on the intersection 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.240 of tech and infidelity, and one of the things she 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.560 told me is that the evolution of technology enabling affairs 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.520 has been happening pre smartphone, and she took me back 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.520 about twenty years ago, back to the beginning of Facebook 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:29.200 and a virtual reality game called Farmville. One of my 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:32.320 first couples that I had worked with, it was a 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:37.760 heterosexual couple. The female partner had been having a relationship 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.080 with a game player on farm Ville that they met 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:45.840 through the game, and the husband had said, you know, 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:48.560 I can't believe you love this person. You don't know 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:51.400 who they actually are. You've never met them in person. 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:54.520 So you think you want to leave me for this 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.560 person on Farmville. I'll kind of call your bluff and 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:00.240 I'll pay for you to go meet this person in 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:04.360 real life, offline all Farmville, and this will settle everything, 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:06.560 and you're gonna come back and want to be with me. 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.160 So when her husband found out and he said, how 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:11.960 about you going to meet the guy in person and 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:17.000 you'll realize just how crazy you're being. As you might imagine, 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.440 this did not go as the husband expected. Meeting all 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:24.239 fline ended up being even better than their online relationship, 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.480 and so when the wife came back to town and 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:29.960 they were back in session, she said, yeah, no, I'm 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:34.000 leaving you. I want to be with this person. She 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.120 left her husband for the Farmville guy, a guy she 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:40.200 never would have met in real life, but because of 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:44.320 a game where you buy and sell virtual livestock, an 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.600 affair was made possible along with the dissolution of an 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:52.120 unhappy marriage. Now, like I said, this was almost twenty 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.559 years ago, and it's about the same time that Craigslist 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.600 Casual Encounters became popular for people looking for casual sex 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:04.760 or extra marital affairs. In fact, remember Monique from episode three, 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:08.680 Craigslist Casual Encounters is how she started her first affair. 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:12.800 You could go on Craigslist and you could find anything 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:17.160 from adult nursing relationship to garden furniture. I had a 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:20.280 girlfriend who had just separated, and one day she was 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:25.000 over and we'd been kind of drinking and looking at Craigslist, 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.960 and I saw this ad that I thought was just brilliant, 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:33.240 and I replied. We kept corresponding, and then at some 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.959 point we decided to have a beer together and it 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:42.600 had it. And now with smartphones, internet capable devices and 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.439 all the social media affairs have reached a whole new 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:51.319 level of accessibility. The Internet has really arrived at a 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:56.080 place where it greatly approximates offline life. We used to 0:09:56.160 --> 0:10:01.120 not have things like video capabilities or virtual reality. That's 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:05.560 Jacklin Craven's pickens Again, it's created very unique ways in 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:09.040 which we can engage in online infidelity. You could be 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:15.080 using teledildonics or USB capable devices that are sex toys 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.640 that somebody else can be operating on the other side 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.920 of the world, and we can be having sexual affairs 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:27.720 through technology. What is a teledildonic? Did I say that right? 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:33.400 Is that a teledildo? Yes? Absolutely so other words use cyberdildonics, 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:38.720 but it's basically a fancy word for a USB capable 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.480 sex toy. Then all sorts of different types exist. So 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:44.959 if you're you're curious, I want to do a quick 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:51.320 Google search from dildos to mouths that are USB operated 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:55.679 by a partner in another location. So we think about 0:10:55.880 --> 0:11:00.840 online affairs being direct messages, secret chats that are happening, 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:05.160 and I think with virtual reality and things like teledyldonics, 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:09.360 you know, our imagination is probably pretty endless now about 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:13.320 how people are having online affairs. How you just I 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.720 really like it when I learn new words and what 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:21.359 are some ways specifically that you've seen people using technology 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:25.760 to cheat and We've heard about women using Ashley Madison 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:29.520 and then What's App, separate emails, burner phones, all of 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:33.920 these things to schedule and track their affairs, similar to 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.840 introducing you to the concept of teledyldonics. I think the 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:44.560 options are so far reaching. I've seen people engaging in 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:48.320 affairs through Reddit. They were in special communities on Reddit 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:52.720 and built a connection and meeting people through social media apps. 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:55.920 The Calculator app was one I saw for a while, 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.000 which was an app that allows you to have a secret, 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.800 hidden compartment in your phone where you could have dating 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:07.720 apps and text messages. That looks like the Calculator app 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:09.840 until you click it and it asks you to put 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.400 in a password and then write It's like opening the 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:17.360 subfolder of a phone where hidden information exists. No, it 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:19.680 looks like the Calculator and so no one's ever going 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:22.160 to open it. But it's actually got all of your 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:29.360 secret dating and text messaging stuff in it. Yes, Calculator apps, 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:36.439 Reddit affairs, virtual dildos. These lines are blurry as f 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.079 and it is hard to figure out where fantasies end 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:45.080 and reality begins. But we're about to see just how 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:49.760 real a virtual affair can get to be. Walking in 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:53.120 the street and to be able to reach it to orgasm. 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:55.280 I'm like, wow, this is and this is when you 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.200 start realizing the power of the mind. You know, an 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:02.760 affair doesn't necessarily have to be that physical sexual relationship, 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:08.160 or that orgasm doesn't necessarily have to be the actual penetration. 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:13.079 That's Olivia again, the woman who orgasmed while her husband 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:15.920 was just in the other room, while she was receiving 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:19.559 a sexy text from another man. And after the break, 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.600 we are going to hear every detail of her virtual affair. 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:34.439 We're back. The text messages continue, but they kick it 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.240 up a notch a little bit. It's as if we're 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.640 raising the volume. I felt very naive. I felt as if, 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:43.520 oh my god, this is such a taboo, like this 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:48.000 is crazy. And I remember telling this to my girlfriends 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.360 and they said it changed his name, but the alias, 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.520 because you really don't want your husband seeing that. That's 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:58.080 Olivia telling me about how her virtual sexting affair got started. 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:02.120 After reconnecting with her for our coworker, that coworker started 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:07.400 playfully sending some texts, but they quickly got pretty racy. 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.040 Her friends told her to change his name on her 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:14.559 phone in case her husband got suspicious. But let's back 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:16.760 up for a moment and find out how this all 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:20.560 started for Olivia. When we first started talking, Olivia told 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.640 me that she was the kind of person who would 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.520 never have an affair, who would never cross a line. 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.160 And so I asked her how she ended up getting 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:32.480 into this. She told me it was because at that moment, 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:35.240 the moment when she started talking to her former co worker, 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.600 she'd reached a point in her marriage where she really 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:42.440 felt like she'd lost herself, and in that moment, she 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:47.320 was much more receptive to sexting advances. You know, with 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:49.560 my husband, if he would put his foot in his mouth, 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.360 or if he would just start drinking, he would say 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:56.760 things without measure. He would be disrespectful to women who 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.360 was like, I'm the man of the house, I'm the 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:03.680 ruler control, I pay, so I decide what it's done. 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:09.040 It just became worse and worse and worse. I had 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:15.000 to change who I was to satisfy him. The way 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.240 the hair was done. The hair had to be blonde, 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:20.200 it had to be straight. And he would say this 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:22.920 to people. He would say this to my kids. You know, 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:25.320 your mother would be perfect if she would just have this, 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.600 and why won't she do this for me? And I 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:34.560 think I was just so desperate to feel alive. I 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:38.160 was willing to take that risk. I felt giddy, I 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:44.280 felt beautiful. I allowed myself to be taken to this fantasy, 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.400 and yes I did fantasize about it. I did take 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:50.680 it to a whole other level. I think the fantasy 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:54.960 also the taboo, right, there was something so mysterious about it. 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:00.200 Do you think it was hotter because it wasn't physical. Yes, 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.040 I felt as if I had this secret and it 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.960 was this wonderful secret or piece of information that was 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:11.800 filling my cup in every possible way, Like to be 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.920 walking in the street and to be able to reach 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:19.240 an orgasm. I'm like, wow, I've got to ask what 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.000 was in the text message that made you have the 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.880 orgasm walking down the street. I think it was just 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:27.600 in the way he was saying how he was going 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:32.000 to touch me in just such an incredible way, in 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:37.280 a very sensual, very erotic way. The touch, the caress, 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.040 the oil, what he was going to do to me, 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:43.160 how he was going to do it to me. It 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:48.720 was the foreplay, It was the excitement, it was the stimulation. 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:50.560 You know, how do you like this? How do you 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:55.080 want this? How many fingers? Positions? Things like this? Literally 0:16:55.160 --> 0:17:00.480 lost for like twenty minutes, so like me to where 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.560 I was going, and I was like, what the hell 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:08.240 is happening to me? And you know, it's kind of 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:13.679 funny thinking here I'm walking in the street and having 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:17.240 this crazy ass orgasm and all these people passing me 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.920 and they have no fucking clue what's going on. And 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:27.800 it was just incredible. And I also realized that I 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.320 am very sexual, that I enjoy the connection, I enjoy 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:36.920 the intimacy, and I think in that week he brought 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.840 that back. I had actually asked him to get me 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:44.199 one of those remote control vibrators which a friend of 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:47.399 mine had told me about, that you can control it 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:51.520 through Bluetooth, and you know, I was willing to experiment 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.800 certain things with him. It was as if Pandora's box 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:59.479 had opened up with him. I asked Olivia if there 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:01.879 were a lot of other times that she messaged with 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:04.760 her former co worker while her husband was right there, 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.399 and if she did, if there was a thrill or 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:12.840 a power she got from the secrecy, Yes, there'll be 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:14.720 a gun for dinner, and that we were going to 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:21.359 the theater and he started texting me, and my husband 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.159 is sitting right in front of me, my daughter's right 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:26.119 beside me, and the phone is on my left side. 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:32.080 And I remember my daughter wanting to get my phone. 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:34.280 I'm like, no, no, no no, you can't use your dad. 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:37.080 And she just turned to me and she's like what, 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.399 And I'm like, god, I was too scared that the 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:45.239 message would come up. I went to the washroom and 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.080 I said, you know, I can't I'm at the theater. 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.919 And he didn't get it. You just didn't get it. 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:55.520 Then we were at the theater or waiting to go in. 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:58.439 During the play, you know how, the light kind of 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:02.040 flashes on, and of course my husband is beside and 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:03.879 he's like, you know, who's texting you? I'm like, no, 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.439 no much. I think it's just you know, work related. Luckily, 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:08.920 what I was doing for work, it was pretty much 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:14.879 twenty four seven. But yeah, it was exciting. It was 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:20.880 very exciting. Did you ever think about it as an affair? No, don't. 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.199 I don't even know the title. There's so many different 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:26.520 titles that one could put on it, or there's so 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.520 many different meanings. I guess if you want to put 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:33.680 to the word affair, is an affair being disloyal to 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:39.399 your partner, Because if that's the case, then emotionally, I 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:42.200 guess I did have an affair. Do I feel guilty 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:49.560 about it? No? Not once did I feel guilty. This 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.720 was the part that was so interesting to me. Olivia 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:58.160 never considered this to be an affair because nothing physical happened. Sure, 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:01.439 she was having the best orgasm of her life. She 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:06.240 was feeling free and open and fucking amazing. She was 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:08.640 talking to this man about the most intimate parts of 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:13.439 her body, but she didn't consider it cheating. And that 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:17.119 right there, that is another way that technology has changed 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:19.800 how women can cheat on their husbands. You can have 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:27.640 an affair that's maybe not even an affair. I think 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:31.400 that there are some really great theories that help us 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:35.720 better understand how this happens. Even with people that, like 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:39.960 I said, don't get online or reach out to people 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:44.040 or meet people with the specific purpose of having an affair. 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:48.280 That's Jaqueline Cravens Pickens Again. They get on for gameplay, 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:52.320 or they reach out to a high school friend or 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:56.360 a college ex partner just to check in, and very 0:20:56.440 --> 0:21:02.680 quickly it moves into very vulnerable personal information where we're 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:06.520 building these really quick, emotionally intense connections and all of 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:10.000 a sudden we've crossed a boundary. And one of the 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:14.080 things we know about computer mediated communication is people talk 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:19.159 about how quickly they feel more comfortable being able to 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:23.840 disclose personal information. So I didn't realize I was going 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:27.320 to open up and share all of these intimate details 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:30.040 in the way in which I did, and so much 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:35.280 more rapidly. Online people feel emotionally close and connected than 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:39.760 what happens and offline interactions. And that's why I use 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.879 that term that slippery slope of like, well, I didn't 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:44.680 think that this was what was going to happen from 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:47.639 this interaction, and here we are. I feel so connected, 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:52.560 this person really understands me. I feel so close, so connected, 0:21:52.920 --> 0:22:00.080 so quickly. Right, it really is a slippery slip. And 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:02.680 we will be going write down that Slabrislow next week 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:06.080 when we dive into an affair that took a very 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:11.159 unexpected twist. Over the past seven episodes, we've learned that 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:14.760 infidelity and non monogamy for women can be a lot 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:22.120 of things, empowering, freeing, even self esteem building, but they're 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:26.240 also complicated, and if I'm being honest with you, I'm 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:28.840 still trying to figure out what does it all mean 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:32.960 for female sexuality and agency and for breaking down the 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:36.040 stigmas that have allowed men to cheat and kept women 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:44.159 faithful for so long. That is all Next week this 0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:47.680 has been She Wants More. I'm your host, Joe Piazza. 0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:54.720 She Wants More was inspired by the book A Passion 0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:58.600 for More by Susan Shapiro Bearish. It was adapted for 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:03.439 audio by executive produces Merrill Poster, Kara Pfeiffer, and Susan 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:07.040 Shapiro Parish. She Wants More is hosted and reported by 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:11.199 me Joe Piazza. Jennifer Bassett is our lead producer and 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:15.760 story editor. Our sound design is by Jessica Crunchich. Our 0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:19.880 theme was composed by Anna Stumff and Hamilton Lighthouser. Our 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:23.600 executive producers for iHeart are Ali Perry and Nikki Etour. 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:28.080 She Wants More as a production of iHeart Podcasts. For 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:32.120 more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:34.480 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.