1 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: Vest was about the expectation on women, the exhausting demand 2 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: to be small, but not so small, to no matter 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: what you do, you have a career. How dare you 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: not have kids? You have kids? How dare you not 5 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: have a career? You wait to consider getting married. You're 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: a crone. You got married young. You must have been 7 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: dumb and you didn't know what you were doing. It's 8 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: just we can't quite get it right. I'd tried to 9 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: make everybody happy, I'd lost my individual way. 10 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 2: New Year, mel you, how about true you? 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 3: In this best of episode of My Legacy House, Martin 12 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 3: Luther King the Third, Andrea Waters, King, Mark Kilberger, and 13 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 3: Craig Kilberger look back on the conversations that reveal what 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 3: it really means to tell the truth about who you 15 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 3: are and stand in it even when it's hard or messy. 16 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 3: We'll hear from Marie Forley on My success starts with 17 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 3: being yourself. Jamel Hill on how courage isn't planned, it's revealed. 18 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: Sterling K. 19 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 3: Brown on stepping off the expected path to set yourself free. 20 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 3: Sophia Bush, I'm letting go of others expectations to live 21 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 3: your own best life. First up, Sarah Jakes Roberts on 22 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 3: how embracing her truth became her greatest calling. 23 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 4: Sarah becoming a mom at fourteen, I'm sure that was 24 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 4: a lot of judgment, a lot of pressure, expectations, especially 25 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 4: when you look at it within the faith community, right, 26 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 4: So what do you remember around that in that moment 27 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 4: and how do you feel it shaped you and your 28 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 4: legacy moving forward. 29 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 5: Fourteen is such a young age to become a mother 30 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 5: that I think to properly contextualize it, you have to 31 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 5: understand that I was not afraid of being pregnant or 32 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 5: having a baby. I thought I was going to get 33 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 5: in trouble. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm going to 34 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 5: get grounded or my parents to be so upset. It 35 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 5: wasn't until I saw their response that I began to 36 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 5: realize that this is much bigger than like you got 37 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 5: in trouble, Like your life has completely changed. But to 38 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 5: my mom's credit, one of the things she told me, 39 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 5: she's like, I didn't get rid of my babies. I 40 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 5: didn't give them away. Whatever you decide to do, I'm 41 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 5: going to stick with you every step of the way. 42 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 5: And she did that, and a man, there were so 43 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 5: many moments where I've won. I felt like the pregnancy 44 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 5: just solidified this idea that I don't belong in that family. 45 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 5: So if you go back to that image of me 46 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 5: as a little girl being confused and amazed, I think 47 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 5: in that moment, it was solidified, like, oh, my goodness, 48 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 5: you don't belong here, and so it became so easy 49 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 5: for me to kind of move into the background. But 50 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 5: I think in moving into the background that it also 51 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 5: gave me an opportunity to discover my identity outside of 52 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 5: my family name. It's like I'm already the black Sheep, 53 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 5: I'm already disconnected. Now I get to just kind of 54 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 5: figure out who I am and what I want to 55 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 5: do with my life. And though my life had certainly 56 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 5: had some twisting turns, even since having the pregnancy, I 57 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 5: found a real sense of being okay with myself without 58 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 5: the validation of other people, because I'd lost it in 59 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 5: many ways. And the moment that I began to really say, 60 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 5: you know what, this is my story. I'm gonna love it, 61 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 5: I'm gonna embrace it, and I'm gonna wake up each 62 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 5: day and really do the best that I can. I 63 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 5: begin to see my life change for myself and so 64 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 5: I started writing this blog just about me. I was 65 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 5: in this toxic marriage, and I was like, you know what, 66 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 5: my life is unraveling, and I'm gonna help it come 67 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 5: undone by telling these stories on this blog. And people 68 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 5: started gravitating towards my message, like, oh my gosh, that's me. 69 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 5: You took the words that I couldn't say, Oh my gosh, 70 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 5: this is what I would pray to God if I 71 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 5: could pray these things. And I was like, oh my goodness, 72 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 5: this is not ministry, Like, this is just me telling 73 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 5: my story. I can't be a ministry. I'm a teen mom. 74 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 5: And so I wrote this blog post where I was like, 75 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 5: I'm gonna just let everybody know that I'm a teen 76 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 5: mom so they can stop putting that pressure on me. 77 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 5: It kind of backfired because they were like, oh my goodness, 78 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 5: now that I know that you have a story too, 79 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 5: now I trust you even more. 80 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 6: And Sarah, when I think of your ministry and I 81 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 6: think of women involve it has been built on this 82 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 6: radical transparency, Like you have redefined what it means to 83 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 6: be a woman of faith based on radical transparency, your past, 84 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 6: your marriage, You're sharing your stories. Why has it been 85 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 6: so important for you to be this radically transparent with 86 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 6: all those. 87 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 7: Who look to you. 88 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 5: You know, I don't know that I saw it as 89 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 5: radical when it started. Like I said, I kind of 90 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 5: thought that if I told people, they would be like, oh, 91 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 5: my goodness, will leave her alone and it won't be 92 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 5: a thing. But the more that I realized how many 93 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 5: of us are suffering in silence, the more I felt like, 94 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 5: if I can tell my story and it helps someone else, 95 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 5: then I'll tell it one more time, and if it 96 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 5: helps someone else, I'll tell it another time. And I 97 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 5: think what I have learned is that through isolation, the 98 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 5: darker voices, the harder voices, the meaner voices that we 99 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 5: hear in our head, they're louder, and until you hear 100 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 5: someone say like, hey, I felt that too. But I'm 101 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 5: telling you it wasn't always like that, or that I 102 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 5: found a flicker that it gives someone permission to start 103 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 5: looking for light even in their dark seasons. And I 104 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 5: didn't want to. I didn't want to be in ministry. 105 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 5: I didn't have this as like a goal in my heart. 106 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 5: And so I'm like, if I'm gonna do this, I'm 107 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 5: gonna at least be honest. I don't want anyone to 108 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 5: ever be surprised that because I preached a message that 109 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 5: I experienced depression, that I worked at a strip club, 110 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 5: Like I want you to know, like this is what 111 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 5: you're getting. It is not much, but I am gonna 112 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 5: give my best. I'm gonna share my best, and if 113 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 5: I make you feel less alone, then girl, we could 114 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 5: grab arms and move towards better together. But I just didn't. 115 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 5: I just didn't want to. I didn't want to live 116 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 5: on a pedestal. I wanted to be able to Sometimes 117 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 5: on my social media, I'll be like all glammed up, 118 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 5: dressed up. Other moments I'll literally be snatching my wig 119 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 5: off and washing my face like this is like this 120 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 5: is all of who I am, and I just don't 121 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 5: want people to be connected to this caricature. I don't 122 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 5: want to be trapped in my own life, and so 123 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 5: for me, my honesty has been my freedom. My honesty 124 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 5: has been the runway that allows me to not feel 125 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 5: stuck in this life. And I think because of that, 126 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 5: my prayer is that I'll continue to have endurance for 127 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 5: what is ahead because I don't have to figure out 128 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 5: how do I keep this mask up? How do I 129 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 5: keep this facade going? My greatest question is how do 130 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 5: I continue to be honest in a way that reaches 131 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 5: the most unlikely person? 132 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 8: Ria, I wanted to ask you a question. You know, 133 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 8: it was many years ago when you were twenty three 134 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 8: years old. You had the courage to launch Marie TV 135 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 8: when many women at that time were not creating that 136 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 8: type of content. And that was courageous, that was adacious, 137 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 8: that was wonderful and obviously been now very successful. I'm 138 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 8: sure there's been lots of upstowns in that process. But 139 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 8: how did you find your confidence and trust in yourself 140 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 8: to go ahead and to create that vision, to create 141 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 8: that platform, to create that voice. 142 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 9: I was born in seventy five, so it was kind 143 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 9: of grown up in the eighties there. And my idea 144 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 9: of a successful, powerful business woman had like huge shoulder 145 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 9: pads and she was in this corner glass office. It 146 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 9: was kind of imagery that I think I just saw 147 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 9: in the media. And I had this notion that one 148 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 9: had to be perfectly educated and speak at a particular 149 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 9: level and use particular language in order to be successful. 150 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 9: And I remember being on Wall Street, on the floor 151 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 9: of the New York Stock exchange and trying to kind 152 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 9: of step into my idealized image of what a successful 153 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 9: young woman was. And I tried to do that in 154 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 9: the magazine world, both on the advertising side and the 155 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 9: editorial side, and kind of all these different beautiful opportunities 156 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 9: that were career opportunities. But I kept feeling completely disconnected 157 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 9: because I was trying to be something that I wasn't. 158 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 9: And so after feeling like a failure and leaving jobs, 159 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 9: even though I had a very strong work ethic and 160 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 9: I was never afraid of work, I couldn't deny from 161 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 9: a soul level that I wasn't where my soul wanted. 162 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 2: Me to be. 163 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 9: And the moment that I relaxed and said, you know what, 164 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 9: I don't speak perfectly, I don't have I graduated from college. 165 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 9: I was the first in my family to go to college. 166 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 9: But I don't have higher degrees. I am way far 167 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 9: from perfect. I'm quirky, I'm weird, I have a strange 168 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 9: sense of humor. I like all of these different things. 169 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 9: And I started just expressing the true essence. 170 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: Of who I am. 171 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 9: That's actually when things started to come together. So releasing 172 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 9: this notion of perfection, releasing this notion of having to 173 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 9: be someone that I genuinely wasn't. That was the only 174 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 9: place it came from. That and just a lot of 175 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 9: pain of failure of trying to be something I wasn't 176 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 9: and it did not work out. 177 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 8: You taught me so many these amazing things, and I 178 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 8: want you to share with us what are the coolest 179 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 8: things that you've taught me that I love, And just 180 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 8: explain this to our viewers in the way that you 181 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 8: do because you're such a great storyteller, which is observe, 182 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 8: don't absorb. 183 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 9: Yeah, I think first of all, this is really really helpful, 184 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 9: especially for those of us who are empaths, those of 185 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 9: us who are really also sensitive to energy, those of 186 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 9: us who tend to also have people in our lives that, 187 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 9: let's say, have different kind of energy that is not 188 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 9: necessarily a good chemistry match for you. So the notion 189 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 9: of observing and not absorbing. And I'll just say this, 190 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 9: you know, for especially what my life has been like 191 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 9: these past couple years. You know, family, we love them, 192 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 9: and then sometimes same thing like Josh and I you 193 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 9: need to shake each other. 194 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 2: Because you're like God, gotta get away. 195 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 9: Same thing can happen in our work environments and with 196 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 9: our friendships. So I think observing someone it's like observing 197 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 9: what they're going through, having ultimate compassion for what they're experiencing, 198 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 9: being there in terms of listening, mirroring what they're going through, 199 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 9: without absorbing it into your own energetic field, taking it on, 200 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 9: becoming responsible for fixing it, for figuring it out, or 201 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 9: thinking that you are necessarily the cause of this other 202 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 9: person's distress or upset or stress, even if they tell 203 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 9: you that you are. So you know, I have been 204 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 9: through this most recently and again my mom, God bless her. 205 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 9: She's still with us. She's struggling a lot right now. 206 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 9: And you know, she said some things in the past 207 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 9: little stretch of time that were extremely hurtful and some 208 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 9: might say cruel. I've shared some things with Christian. She 209 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 9: was like, WHOA, that's a lot. And so it comes 210 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 9: back to this notion of me going like and I 211 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 9: can observe her in her pain. I can observe her 212 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 9: what she's experiencing, which is a lot of terror and 213 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 9: a lot of fear and a lot of loss of control. 214 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 9: And I can empathize with the notion of what she's 215 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 9: experiencing and how those lash outs might be directed at 216 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 9: me if I'm in her presence, but I don't have 217 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 9: to absorb it and take it on. I don't need 218 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 9: to be a sponge, and I don't need to. As 219 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 9: painful as this is. As the daughter of the woman 220 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 9: who taught me that everything is figure outable, I don't 221 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 9: have to figure it out for her, nor is that 222 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 9: my role. I can trust at a very deep level 223 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 9: that there is for me, and this is my own 224 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 9: belief system. There is a higher power watching over her. 225 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 9: She is on her own soulful and spiritual journey, and 226 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 9: the greatest gift I can give both her and myself 227 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 9: is to show up. And Chris taught me this one 228 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 9: only love in the room, meaning bringing only love in 229 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,239 Speaker 9: the room. Can I observe her and not absorb that negativity? 230 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 9: Can I observe her and not absorb her pain and 231 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 9: her fear? 232 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 2: As my own? 233 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 6: Scrolling won't change your life, but subscribing just might tap 234 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 6: that button and stay connected to conversations. 235 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 10: That can. 236 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 2: Now back to my legacy. 237 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 6: I am enough of a fan of yours that I 238 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 6: did actually at one point watch one of your films 239 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 6: and go, gosh, is he a classical train actor. Did 240 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 6: he study Shakespeare? I remember googling your background and going 241 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 6: what he went to Stanford for economics and then worked 242 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 6: at the Federal Reserve. Like that, I did not expect 243 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 6: as a background. So when did acting move from a 244 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 6: hobby to a calling for you? 245 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 7: Uh? Sure? 246 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 10: So I acted all during high school from Saint Louis, Missouri, 247 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 10: and had a great time doing it, but didn't know 248 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 10: or consider to be a practical pursuit. I got in 249 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 10: Stanford University and they had the number one e coime program, 250 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 10: and I was like great. I was in a program 251 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 10: called in Roads for minority students interested in business and industry. 252 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 10: I had an internship at the Federal Reserve Bank, and 253 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 10: for two years I had like a pretty clearly set path. Right, 254 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 10: I was gonna get up. I probably go into investment banking. 255 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 7: I do all right. 256 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,719 Speaker 10: I had to make a contribution to my family. I 257 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 10: always thought that a pursuit of the arts was something 258 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 10: for people who didn't have to make a financial contribution 259 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 10: to their families or their community, et cetera. It was 260 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 10: a privilege that I was not afforded in my mind. 261 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 10: Got to Stanford University and I was living in one 262 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 10: of the ethnic theme houses, the African American theme house 263 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 10: called Jamay, which they thought mint unity, but it actually 264 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 10: means cooperative economics is one of the seven principles of Quanta. Well, 265 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 10: you know, we tried. It was the seventies. We're trying 266 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 10: to figure stuff out anywhere. 267 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 4: And by the way, they're still touting that. We were 268 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 4: just touring a couple of weeks ago, and they're like 269 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 4: Stirling And here's why I mean like that is that 270 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 4: is part of that is part of your religion, the legend. 271 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 2: Yes, so sorry, keep going. 272 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 7: That's the wife and I lived in that present together. 273 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 10: We did our first play together, and it was the 274 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 10: first time because I went to this college prep school, 275 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 10: first time getting a chance to play. 276 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 7: A part that was specifically African American. 277 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 10: I'd done Tennessee Williams and aren't familiar and all these 278 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 10: sorts of things Shakespeare, but like to do the words 279 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,839 Speaker 10: of August Willison and the play Joe Turner Coming Gone 280 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 10: has this man is trying to reunite his daughter with 281 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 10: her mother because he gets taken away from his family 282 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 10: and put in a chain game. And I had a 283 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 10: wonderful time during the show and Professor Elon, who was 284 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 10: a black man at Stanford who directed the play, and 285 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 10: he said, listen, I know you don't plan on major 286 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 10: any this, but I think that the department gets a 287 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 10: lot from your involvement in it, and I think you 288 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 10: get something out of it as well. So why don't 289 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 10: you just keep auditioning for plays? And that's what I did, 290 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 10: And after two years of doing that, I said, oh, 291 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 10: this thing that I think is a hobby is actually 292 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 10: the calling. My grades and ECON would go up and 293 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 10: all my other classes would go up anytime I was 294 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 10: doing a play because I was doing something that fed 295 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 10: my soul and I wasn't following a path that I thought. 296 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 7: I was supposed to be on that other people thought 297 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 7: I was supposed to be on. 298 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 10: I was on the path that I was supposed to 299 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 10: be on because God told me. And I went to 300 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 10: my mom. I said, Mom, thing about changing my major 301 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 10: and she said, okay. I said, I'm thinking about changing 302 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 10: it to acting. And she said what I knew, And 303 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 10: she said and she said, Andrew, she goes, did you 304 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 10: pray about it? And I said, yes, ma'am, I did, 305 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 10: and she said, and this is the way you feel led? 306 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 10: And I said, yes, ma'am, I do, and she has 307 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 10: been one of my staunchest supporters from that moment, hasn't missed. 308 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 7: The play et cetera. 309 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 10: She now has been living with als for the past 310 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 10: eight years or so, but up until that point she 311 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 10: was everywhere that I was in a performance. 312 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 2: So beautiful, gerline, you've called Revn beckwith a spiritual mentor when. 313 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 11: You first heard his teachings, what immediately resonated with you? 314 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 10: Wow, this is so interesting because I think there there 315 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 10: there are things that when I first introduced to a 316 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 10: Gape through my wife Ryan the Schellbata, who went there 317 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 10: first and coming from a very sort of like fundamentalist 318 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 10: Christian background, it was interesting because I was. 319 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 7: Like, what is this dude? 320 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 10: Right? There are certain things they're like like just sort 321 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 10: of like not necessarily what I was accustomed to. 322 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 7: And then I had to listen with new ears. 323 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 10: It's as if, as in the Bible, say, give me 324 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 10: ears to hear, eyes to see in a heart of understanding. 325 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 10: And there was nothing but love that was coming from 326 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 10: out of his mouth. That's all I could hear. I 327 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 10: was hearing about ways to connect with people. I was 328 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 10: hearing about this sort of false illusion of separation and scarcity, 329 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 10: and it sort of melted away. And I was in 330 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 10: the congregation and hymns would be playing, and people would 331 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 10: be dancing and they would be fully self expressed. And 332 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 10: there would be people like who came from a very 333 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 10: black church background, and they were hitting the beat and 334 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 10: they were jamming the groupment. And then there were people 335 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 10: from a very different background and they're dancing, very. 336 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 7: Flowy and moving. 337 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 10: I said, how beautiful is this that everybody can be 338 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 10: in this space together and expressed themselves as they are, authentically, 339 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 10: fully truly, And I saw the division that I thought 340 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 10: existed melted away, and I was able and free to 341 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 10: just love people as they are. I think that is 342 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 10: the greatest gift that the rev Has sort of led 343 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 10: me in this journey, is to love people unconditionally. 344 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 7: And I don't even think we recognize. 345 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 10: How the conditions we place on our love until you 346 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 10: get a chance to see it at the sixty thousand 347 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 10: foot view and be like, oh wow, I actually had 348 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 10: more judgment than I was conscious of. 349 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 7: Right, Wow, that's amazing. That is just beautiful description of 350 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 7: a gape man in your experience as beautiful. Thank you 351 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 7: that you're beautiful too. Man. 352 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 6: You talk about courage, and I want to reflect on 353 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 6: what that courage has meant because you know, very famously 354 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 6: in twenty eighteen, you called out President Trump's racism, You 355 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 6: called out Jerry Jones his stance on players taking a knee, 356 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 6: and that ultimately cost you your job. You know that 357 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 6: that's courage. And so when you talk about courage, when 358 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 6: you reflect back on that time, what did that teach 359 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 6: you about your voice? What did that teach you about 360 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 6: your values? And frankly, what did it teach you about 361 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 6: your willingness to risk it all for what you believe in? 362 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 12: Well, I'm sure a lot of people who have been 363 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 12: in far more dangerous positions than that one. Especially as 364 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 12: you know, with you all being so intimately acquainted with 365 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,719 Speaker 12: the civil rights movement, is that you don't know if 366 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 12: you're going to meet the moment until the moment find you. 367 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 2: You have no idea. 368 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 12: So if you would have asked me before that actually happened, Hey, 369 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 12: if this was the scenario, what would you do? You 370 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 12: think you know what you would do, You think you 371 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 12: know how you might respond, but you don't really actually 372 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 12: know till you're right there in the fire and so 373 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 12: all of the decisions that I made as the you know, 374 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 12: White House called for me to be fired, as you know, 375 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 12: Donald Trump singled me out on social media as that 376 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 12: was happening. I mean, I'm making mental decisions in real time, 377 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 12: and I had to sort of have a few moments 378 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 12: with myself and saying like, Okay, if this results in 379 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 12: you being fired, like right in this moment, what are 380 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 12: you going to do? Or if they put it on 381 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 12: the table, hey, either apologize to the president or you're 382 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 12: gonna have to leave here. 383 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:20,959 Speaker 2: What are you gonna do? 384 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 12: And I every instinct and every cell in my body 385 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 12: was like, if they asked me to apologize to the president, 386 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 12: I'm not gonna do it. And I made that clear 387 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 12: very early. I'm never apologizing to him. I said what 388 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 12: I said, and we just got to live with that. 389 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 12: The other part of it, too, is like knowing that, hey, 390 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 12: if this is the end of the road right here. 391 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 12: You know, I didn't leave ESP until a year later, 392 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 12: and I'd left on my own terms, and if at 393 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 12: the moment they had to make a business decision, I 394 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 12: just I would have lived with it. I mean, it 395 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 12: wouldn't feel good, especially given all the work that I 396 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 12: put in to get to that point, and there's not 397 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 12: many people who get the opportunity to anchor the six 398 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 12: o'clock Sports Center, one of the sort of treasured time 399 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 12: slots at ESPN. 400 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 2: But if that was the result, that was the result. 401 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 12: And at when stuff like this happens, where your integrity 402 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 12: and your character is questioned. 403 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 2: You have to be able to live with yourself. 404 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 12: And I would not have been able to live with 405 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 12: myself had I capitulated in a way that I think 406 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:31,239 Speaker 12: would not have spoke to who authentically I am. So 407 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 12: it was a lot of lessons that I've found out 408 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 12: in real time, and just because the situation was there, 409 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 12: And I'm thankful for that, because when similar situations, maybe 410 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 12: not always involving the President of the United States, but 411 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 12: when other tests of your character, your integrity, when those 412 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 12: things happen, it's muscle memory. 413 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 2: Now you're confident because you've already done it. 414 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 12: And I've done it at a level that most people 415 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 12: don't get to do it at. And so when I'm 416 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 12: in meetings or in determining business relationships and things pop 417 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 12: up where you have to stand on something, I'm so 418 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 12: much more comfortable doing that because I've already done it before. 419 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 12: It's very similar to, you know, an athlete. I mean, 420 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 12: I'm sure Michael Jordan missed a lot of game winning 421 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 12: shots before he actually made him, and when he finally 422 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 12: made one, it became muscle memory, and then after that 423 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 12: that dude was never losing. So I sort of approach 424 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 12: it with the mentality that an athlete might. 425 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 4: So even before that happened. Let's also go back to 426 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 4: your beginning days of ESPN, because as you mentioned earlier, 427 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 4: you found yourself in rooms where you were, you know, 428 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 4: most times one, if not the only woman, you know, 429 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 4: certainly probably the only black woman. So if we're talking 430 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 4: about legacy on this show, you know, and you at 431 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 4: ESPN early two thousands, you know that legacy is there. 432 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 4: But you said, what about that time, that it is 433 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 4: both isolating and yet motivating. Can you share with our 434 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 4: listeners a little bit by what you mean by that? 435 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 12: So the isolating part is when I was a sports 436 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 12: columnist at the Orlando Sentinel. This would have been in 437 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 12: two thousand and five. In most of two thousand and six, 438 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 12: I was the only black female sports columnist at a 439 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 12: daily newspaper in North America, and noticed I didn't just 440 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 12: say America. 441 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 7: Right. 442 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 12: So that's one out of four hundred and five newspapers, 443 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 12: and that is an embarrassing statistic for the. 444 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 2: Profession of journalism. 445 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 12: And a lot of people might have thought that that 446 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 12: would have given me some sense of accomplishment. 447 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 2: It did not. It. 448 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 12: What it was communicating to me, and even worse, communicating 449 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 12: to other women who might want to get in the business, 450 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 12: is that your voices aren't necessary nor are they valued. 451 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 12: And so that's the isolating part, and you know it 452 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 12: also comes with a lot of scrutiny because you're the 453 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 12: only one, and a lot of black people have been 454 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 12: in this situation in all industries. Is that when you're 455 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 12: the only one, you then become the test case, right, 456 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 12: So you have to carry yourself a certain way because 457 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 12: you are living with the burden of if I mess up, 458 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 12: no one else is coming after me. Black people aren't perfect, right, 459 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 12: So it's like, if I make some junior mistakes or whatever, 460 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 12: if that's the reason why you won't see value in 461 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 12: black women having voices in the sports space, then that 462 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 12: to me reflects more on you than it does on me. 463 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,880 Speaker 12: So you're carrying all of this, but at the same time, 464 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 12: you know, getting to ESPN, a place that is considered 465 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 12: to be for our profession at the very top. If 466 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 12: you're in sports media, being the most powerful sports media 467 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 12: company in America, then you know there's something to be 468 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 12: celebrated by being able to advance and take that step 469 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 12: and realize that all the hard work has brought you 470 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 12: to this place and brought you to this sense of elevation. 471 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 12: But it's always to me about who is able to 472 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 12: come behind you. As a result, now ESPN is in 473 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 12: a very different position because they can hire whoever they want, 474 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 12: and you look at their team picture and it's very 475 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 12: diverse because they have a lot of women. And even 476 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 12: before I got there, Robin Roberts was the one who 477 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 12: set the table, you know, and so they've always had 478 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 12: a steady pipeline of women of color and putting them 479 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 12: in certain positions. Where I was a little bit different 480 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 12: is that they were traditional anchors, and I was one 481 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 12: of the few that were able to develop a footthol 482 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 12: and an imprint at ESPN by giving my opinion, by 483 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 12: creating conversation based off my perspective and my experience that 484 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 12: I had as a sports journalist over the course of 485 00:24:55,320 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 12: many years, so I was very thrilled to be but 486 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 12: I also was fully aware that if I walk into 487 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 12: one more room and I'm the only one in there, 488 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 12: that's not a good room. It's like there, I've never 489 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 12: been one of those people. And there, unfortunately are some 490 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 12: people of color who are like this that they do 491 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 12: want to be the only one in the room. I 492 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 12: don't want to be the only one in the room 493 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 12: because I don't know everything. I don't represent the entire 494 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 12: totality of women of black women. 495 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 2: I do not do that. And so it's important that. 496 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 12: We all you know, when we go in these rooms, 497 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 12: that's not just about getting in the room. It's about 498 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 12: getting in the room and kind of breaking it up 499 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 12: and opening the door even wider so that more of us. 500 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 12: So it's a you know, a flood of us coming in. 501 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 4: I loved when Kamala Harris said upon accepting the vice presidency, 502 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 4: I might be the first, but I won't be the last. 503 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 4: I love that sentiment. And so here you are at 504 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 4: you know ESPN, you know, seemingly from the outside, you know, 505 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 4: riding on top of the world. Then you had this 506 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 4: unfair attack and this fall from where you had worked 507 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 4: so hard to be But throughout all of that Ian 508 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 4: was there and he, you know, walked with you through 509 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 4: that storm and was always at your side. So my 510 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 4: question is for you, Ian, and particularly for couples that 511 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 4: are listening right now and if they're going through the storm, 512 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 4: they're watching someone that they love go through the storm, 513 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 4: what advice would you have for couples walking that path. 514 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 11: I believe communication is the key, you know, constant communication. 515 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 11: When Jamel had when she was going through her storm, 516 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 11: really first and foremost, I wanted to make sure that 517 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 11: I was there and she felt my presence and she 518 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 11: knew that she wasn't alone. We had a lot of 519 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 11: good times and that was probably the most challenging part 520 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 11: of our relationship up up to that point. So my 521 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 11: biggest thing was making sure that she didn't feel alone, 522 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 11: making sure that she felt my presence and we were 523 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 11: going to get through this together. And naturally, I'm a fixer, 524 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 11: so sometimes I have to dial that back because sometimes 525 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 11: she may just want event and she just needs a 526 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 11: listening ear versus you know, solution after solution. But my 527 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 11: goal was to remain positive throughout the entire situation because 528 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 11: I knew something good would come from it. And a 529 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 11: lot of things came from it that were good on 530 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 11: a positive note. So just positivity and communication would be 531 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 11: my advice to any couples going through any type of turmoil. 532 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 12: Yeah, and I remember when I got suspended, So I 533 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 12: had a two week suspension. I think I spent the 534 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 12: first week with you, right, So I and you know 535 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 12: that to me said a lot about our relationship. Is 536 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,199 Speaker 12: that My immediate instinct after I got suspended was I 537 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 12: need to hop on the plane and I need to 538 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 12: be with him, right because I knew that the comfort 539 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 12: I was looking for, I knew the solace I was 540 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 12: looking for. I knew all of that could be found 541 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 12: in him. And you know that spoke volumes about our 542 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 12: you know, relationship, and I know it probably wasn't the 543 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 12: easiest for you in the sense of that, you know, 544 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 12: here you have me being discussed on all these news channels, 545 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 12: and you know he's also in the corporate world, so 546 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 12: you have colleagues that are watching this. 547 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 7: Well. 548 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 11: The challenge for me was, you know, under normal circumstances, 549 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 11: if I was dating a regular woman, if she got 550 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 11: into an issue with someone at work, I would just 551 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 11: go up there and have a conversation with that being 552 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 11: the president of the United States. 553 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 7: So it was a little handcuff. So it was a 554 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 7: little challenge for me. So and that's another thing. 555 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 11: You know, we have fun, so making her laugh and 556 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 11: just making her feel comfortable. 557 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 4: Scrolling won't change your life, but subscribing just might. We're 558 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 4: sharing real stories, heart won wisdom and unforgettable lessons that 559 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 4: stay with you long after the screen goals. Start tap 560 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 4: that button and stay connected to conversations that truly count. 561 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 6: Now back to my legacy, Sophia Naw. 562 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,719 Speaker 4: I wanna turn to a deeply personal essay that you 563 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 4: wrote in in Glamour last April about your coming out journey. 564 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 4: M and I want to read something that you wrote 565 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 4: because I thought that it was just so, so very powerful. 566 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 4: So I want to quote your exact words, which is, M, 567 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 4: I finally feel like I can breathe. I don't think, 568 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 4: I ni, I don't think. I can't explain how profound 569 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 4: that is. I feel like I was wearing a weighted 570 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 4: vest for who knows how long. I hadn't realized how 571 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 4: heavy it was until I finally just put it down. 572 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 4: That kind of clarity doesn't usually come without heartbreak. So 573 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 4: what was the turning point for you. 574 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: If I may. You know, it's interesting how bite sized 575 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: the world wants to make your life or your experiences 576 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: when you are a public person. And I understand why 577 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: the totality of a life, you know, someone's journey is 578 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: it's not clickbait material, and so you won't expect this. 579 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: But the reason this really relates back to Nia and 580 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: our friendship is because there was so much public fascination 581 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: about well, what is she? How does she identify? 582 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 7: Is? 583 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: Explain? Explain? Explain? And they wanted to make it about 584 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: this coming out, you know, and part of me and 585 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: part of Nia were like, has nobody been paying attention 586 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: to like anything I've ever said since I've been on TV, 587 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: or all the all the people I've kissed since I've 588 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: been on TV, Like what are we doing? So there 589 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: was humor in it, certainly there was absolutely given again 590 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: this rising fear mongering. There was a real importance I 591 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: understood for saying the words and saying them in a 592 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: way where they could be both hopefully inspiring or freeing 593 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: to someone else, but also to say all of us 594 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: deserve to take up space and deserve to have a 595 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: full spectrum of rights. But The thing that people didn't 596 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: see behind the scenes was the journey to get there. 597 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: And the vest wasn't just about identity. The vest was 598 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: about society. The vest was about the expectation on women, 599 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: the exhausting demand to be small but not so small, 600 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: to no matter what you do, you have a career. 601 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,479 Speaker 1: How dare you not have kids? You have kids? How 602 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: dare you not have a career. You wait to consider 603 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: getting married, You're a crone. You got married young. You 604 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: must have been dumb and you didn't know what you 605 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: were doing. It's just we can't quite get it right. 606 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: And what I had to come to terms with was 607 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: that I'd carried certain traumas rather than push them back 608 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: on the people who'd given them to me, I'd tried 609 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: to make everybody happy. I'd lost my individual way, maybe 610 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: in a way because I'd prioritized community so much that 611 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: I finally said, well, I guess it's time, And I 612 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: guess it's time I do the thing everybody tells me 613 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: to do, and I'll make the list and check the boxes. 614 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: And everybody says, once you've done it, you'll be happy. 615 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: And I checked all the boxes, and I really wasn't happy, 616 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: and I didn't know how to say that to anyone 617 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: but Nia, and I didn't know how to say when 618 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: people said, well, why did you get married and why 619 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,479 Speaker 1: did you do this? I didn't know I would go 620 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: through the next step, the family building stuff by myself. 621 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: I didn't know until it happened to me. And I 622 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: didn't know how to say that. I didn't know how 623 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: to deal with the shame and the kind of embarrassment 624 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: that I'd been wrong and that I'd been wrong really publicly. 625 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: And I called my best friend and she if I may, 626 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: I'm just making sure I'm allowed to say the thing, 627 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: but she said me too, And we both knew what 628 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 1: was going on obviously with each other. We talk one 629 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: hundred times a day. But when I said I think 630 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: I have to be done and in her own life 631 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: and in her own world with her own young son, 632 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: she said, I do too. I can't. I would never 633 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: wish for someone else to be heartbroken, but to have 634 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: my best friend in the world having her version of 635 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: the same experience, and both of us saying we got 636 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: to like, we got to put it down and we 637 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: got to try to make a new way in the 638 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: most profound way I knew I wasn't crazy. I knew 639 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: I wasn't doing something rash. I knew I'd literally exhausted 640 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 1: every option, I'd gone to, every therapy, I'd done every 641 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: bit of the homework, and I had to just say, 642 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: it's okay to change your mind, it's okay to learn something, 643 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,839 Speaker 1: and based on that learning, make a new decision for 644 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: your future. And so everybody wanted to make it about, 645 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 1: you know, the next person in my life. Because the 646 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,320 Speaker 1: next person in my life was a woman. Plenty of 647 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: people were shocked. It wasn't nea by the way I 648 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: was like, I was like, she is my wife, just 649 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 1: not like that. But you know what, I think what 650 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: people didn't understand was that the journey started again in 651 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: a community of women. And there were two of us, 652 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,359 Speaker 1: and then there was a best friend from college, and 653 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: then there was a woman I would eventually fall in 654 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: love with. And then there was another friend, you know, 655 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: dealing with will I stay or will I go because 656 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 1: of addiction in her family with her husband, and the 657 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: community of women who who didn't go really bad timing, 658 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 1: you know, you just had this whole big thing. They 659 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,479 Speaker 1: didn't lean out and critique, they leaned in and said 660 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: it's okay. Those women helped me take off forty years 661 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 1: of expectation and people pleasing and just trying to do 662 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: it right because it hadn't felt right ever, no matter 663 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: how hard I tried. And it was yes about stepping 664 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: into that portion of my identity in a way, but 665 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: what it really was in totality was a was a 666 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: homecoming and a learning to honor myself. And I learned 667 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: how to honor myself watching the strongest woman that I 668 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 1: know and a group of the most impressive women we 669 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: love honor themselves. I had the courage of that conviction 670 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: because of what I was being shown in both love 671 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,800 Speaker 1: and example by the women in my life. 672 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 3: We're taking a short break over the holidays, but we're 673 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 3: not leaving you empty handed. Every Tuesday, we're sharing some 674 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 3: of the best moments from twenty twenty five to help 675 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 3: set you up for a great new year. 676 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 7: We'll be back with all new episodes on January thirteenth. 677 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 3: Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss a single one.