1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, wasn't the Stuff to Blow your Mind? 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and um Julie Douglas, and 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: this episode of Stuff to Blow Your Mind does in 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: fact deal with the brain, the physical aspect of the mind, 6 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:30,479 Speaker 1: and some rather radical things that have and can be 7 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 1: done to it, like drilling a hole in it, yes, 8 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: or particularly drilling a hole in the skull to create 9 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: a pathway to the brain. Yes, that kind of a 10 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: cranial release point. Yeah. I mean, we are talking about 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: treped nation, which is something that has been performed since 12 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: prehistoric times, and we'll get more into that, but it's 13 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: pretty much mostly associated with which doctors. But we're going 14 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: to talk about it today in a medical sense, historical sense, 15 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: and what it may or may not have to you 16 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: with Alzheimer's. Yes, Um, I do want to just go 17 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: ahead and get this out of the way right now, 18 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 1: and we'll probably touch on this some more. But no 19 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: matter what you hear in this episode, do not drill 20 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 1: a hole in your skull or the skulls of anyone 21 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: you know. Um, it's a bad idea best left to professionals. 22 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,199 Speaker 1: Is that you know, we we have cautioned you guys 23 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: a lot before. We've talked about, like you get stung 24 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: by uh jellyfish, do not pee on yourself or others 25 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: because it's not gonna work. It might actually make things 26 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: for use. But we are super serious when we talk 27 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: about trepen nation um and we're kind of laughing about 28 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: it right now. But as we will go into later, 29 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: people have performed self treponnations before and we'll talk about 30 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: the reasons for that. But again, this is something that 31 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: is uh, it's just not something you should do. I mean, 32 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: it's brain surgery, right exactly. And uh, in a sense, 33 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: the the oldest form of brain surgery now when we're 34 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: talking about about trepon nation. Essentially, this is the surgical 35 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: removal of bone segments, often circular, but sometimes it will 36 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: be a square. It varies, but but you see a 37 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: lot of circles from the skull in order to treat 38 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: the symptoms of real or imagine brain maladies. Yep. It 39 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: was practiced by the ancient Egyptians, Chinese, Indians, Romans, Greeks, 40 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: and the early Mesoamerican civilizations. The earliest example that has 41 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: been found of a skull with trepennation marks goes back 42 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: to the beginning of the Neolithic period some ten thousand 43 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: years ago, and the procedure is still performed today, but 44 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: for medical and non medical reasons. Yeah, today doctors tend 45 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: to call it a craniotomy instead of trepidation, just because 46 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: trepidation is kind of a thing for many good reasons, 47 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: kind of a stigmatized term, because it does just bring 48 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: to mind drilling a hole through the skull. And uh, 49 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,239 Speaker 1: as as we'll discuss, there's a lot of baggage that 50 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: comes with that. A lot of that baggage it does 51 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: not deserve, but some of it it does. Yeah, And 52 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: when doctors do it today, it's because there's been some 53 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: sort of head trauma and uh, some sort of injury 54 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: that not only a sort of trebination would help to 55 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: reduce swelling in the build up of blood and other 56 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: fluids which can kill brain cells. Yeah, we're talking about 57 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: epidural or subdural hematomas here. Uh And and also portions 58 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: of the skull will be reviewed, will be removed in 59 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: under two access parts of the brain. And in those cases, 60 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: of course, you're taking this brain flap off in your 61 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: replacing it with a titanium plate, uh, screwing it on 62 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: or using under some of their form to to fix 63 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: it back in position. Yeah, and then again these are 64 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: our medical reasons for undergoing this procedure. Non medical, there 65 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: there are quite a few reasons, it turns out, through history, 66 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: and one could be a kind of symbolic trepanning, in 67 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: which you know, there's not there is a little bit 68 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: of a hole made in the head, but it's more 69 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: of a symbolic thing, a sort of third eye that 70 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: mystics might say that you know, would help to expand 71 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: your consciousness. Um, I do know that archaeologist Bob Arnott says, 72 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: and this isn't a new scientist article the skull doctors, 73 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: that some holes were made after death as part of 74 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: a burial right or to allow removal of the brain 75 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: before mummification. And he says in some societies people actually 76 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: wore bone ambulance little discs that were cut out from 77 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: the skull of a leader or a great warrior. So 78 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: it's kind of like the the whole symbolic transaction that 79 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: happens there. If you have a little bit of that 80 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: warrior or leader, perhaps you possessed some of their power. Yeah, 81 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: and undoubted, undoubtedly trepinnation was used to treat various headaches, epilepsy, 82 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: mental disorders. There's even in the most basic forms of trepidation, 83 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: with like the least medical ideas, there's still this notion 84 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: that there is an essential link between what's going on 85 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: inside the skull and the human condition and your experience 86 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: of reality, and that you can somehow adjust this tap 87 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: into it, treat it by breaking down the barrier between 88 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: in the world, in the brain um and in this 89 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: you do see some of these ideas there in many 90 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: cases misapplied, but undoubtedly there have been holes drilled in 91 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 1: heads to release spirits, demons, etcetera. Yeah, the spirit and 92 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: demons things is something that that seems as though the 93 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: Western world has applied to what they might have deemed 94 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: as a primitive culture. Yeah, I think it's it's from 95 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: what I've read, it is definitely overstated. But it's difficult 96 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 1: for anyone to say no one ever drilled a hole 97 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: in the head to release the spirit or demon. But 98 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: but it is, it is over applied, and we'll get 99 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: into the details on that. It kind of gets, you know, 100 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: treprenation gets into that weird territory that cannibalism gets into, 101 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: where there's so much myth and it's freighted with with 102 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: so much morality that is sometimes hard to sess out 103 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: the truth from fiction over a historical amount of time. Yeah, 104 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: because certainly, especially really you know, Western European culture in 105 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: the last few centuries, really into the ideas of primitive, 106 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: primitive people's or people that were deemed as primitive eating 107 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: each other and eating foreigners. Uh. Certainly into the idea 108 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: of of some sort of a primitive witch doctor just uh, 109 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: you know, treating some sort of malady by saying, oh, 110 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,679 Speaker 1: must free ghosts from skull with hammer, you know, because 111 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: it's just it's it's a demeaning idea. It's it limits 112 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: those individuals to the most primitive modes of human behavior. Yeah, 113 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: but we have seen this in in Westerners for a 114 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: long time, this idea that you know, a Western must 115 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: be much more sophisticated. So therefore it must be that 116 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: they felt as though they were possessed by demon and 117 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,559 Speaker 1: they had to let it out. But according to Dr 118 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: John Verano, who looked at something like ten years of 119 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: schools that we're in museums and private collections in the 120 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: u s and prew and he came to the conclusion 121 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: that there's plenty of evidence for advanced surgical skills among 122 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: the prehistoric people of the Andies. So that's for one um. 123 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: And if you start to look at this a little 124 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: bit more, then you you will stumble across someone called 125 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: Ephraim George Squire, who back in eighteen sixty three already 126 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: knew this. He already suspected this um, but he actually 127 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: had a different hypothesis of what this was, and it 128 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: didn't have anything to do with demons um. He was 129 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: an American diplomat and he was journeying across Peru when 130 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: he met Senora Zanito who had in her possession a 131 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: skull with a perfectly square uh cut in it. And 132 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: what he noticed is that it had healing scar marks 133 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: and it had new bone growth, which would indicate the 134 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: person whoever inhabited that school before survived the Trepi nation. Yeah, 135 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: they were healing. They were going on with their lives 136 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: despite and maybe even because of this whole that's right. 137 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: This If you want to look more into this to 138 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: this specific example, it is from the mental plus article headcase, 139 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: and it goes into detailing trepid nation in various ways. 140 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: And Squire, who is a rather interesting individual on his own, 141 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: I mean, a self taught archaeologist that was sent by 142 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln to South America to deal with the guano 143 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: guano business, the guano problem, and then he ends up 144 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: immersed in this issue of of of these skulls and 145 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: ancient neurosurgery, and and and at the time, you know, 146 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: we were talking about Western ideals and not what primitives, 147 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: primitive so called primitive societies did and do. Um. This 148 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: was a time where certainly the western white Westerners we 149 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: were like to view themselves as this superior species, almost 150 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: certainly a superior race, and everybody uh else was just 151 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: kind of piddling about. So the idea that ancient ancient 152 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: Meso Americans had advanced neurosurgery was kind of was a 153 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: radical idea, and in some sense it's a dangerous idea 154 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: to those who wanted to hold onto these these notions 155 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: of Western superiority. That's right, because we'll talk more about 156 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: this in a little bit, but you know, nineteenth century, 157 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: they're not having a lot of success with the procedure itself, 158 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: and it had been largely abandoned by this time. So 159 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: to think that a civilization, um, you know, five thousand 160 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: years ago, seven thousand years ago, could have carried this 161 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: out successfully seemed to fly in the face of logic. 162 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: And what Squire did is he presented, um, this this 163 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 1: skull to Paul Broca, who was a French or was 164 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: a French neurosurgeon and also the person for whom Broca's 165 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: area in the brain is named for. And he corroborated 166 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: Squire's discovery and said, yes, this is intentional. This looks 167 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: like neurosurgery. Um. But Broca thought it was done for 168 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: primitive reasons, again releasing the demons the ghost of the mind, 169 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,719 Speaker 1: and Squire said, no, I don't think so. And he 170 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: was the first, I believe at that time to come 171 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: out and say I think that it has more to 172 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: do with perhaps combat. Yes, UM. I should also point 173 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: out that Broka also thought that it was done almost 174 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: exclusively on children, which which he collaborated by saying, look, 175 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: I used a glass instrument to to to gouge holes 176 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: in the corpses of children and adult dead adults, and 177 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: I found that it was far the far faster procedure 178 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: with the child and Therefore, he concluded that it was 179 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: used exclusively on children, which was his experience with his instruments. Right. 180 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: So it's not a great way to sort of test 181 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: out that hypothesis, but that's what he came to. Um. 182 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: In the meantime, you have things like inc and pots 183 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: that are showing up depicting trepen nation, further evidence that 184 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: this was happening. Um, you have a survey of ancient 185 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: inc And skulls showing that more males than females had 186 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: trepennation holes, probably because most warriors were men. And in addition, 187 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: the majority of man made holes in the skull would 188 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: occur on the left side of the school. And the 189 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: idea is that right handed assailants, of which we know 190 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: there are more of, um, those the blows of those 191 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: assailants would land on the left side of the skull. 192 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: We're talking about from a club sword of slingshot. Um. 193 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: So that's sort of more evidence that in this case, 194 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: in the Incan's case, this kind of trepidation was more 195 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: of an e er procedure. Really, right, you have individuals 196 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: who sustained massive damage to the head. They've essentially sustained 197 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 1: brain trauma, and so the the surgical procedure of the 198 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 1: day was to try to relieve that pressure. Yes, so 199 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: let's let's give it a look. See, try to imagine 200 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: what this might be. You're an Incan warrior. Yeah, I've 201 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: just stumbled in from the battlefield. I took a club 202 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: blow to the head. I'm in pain, I'm bleeding. What 203 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: can you do for me? Doc? Ah, Well, I see 204 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: that you might have some shards of your own skull 205 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: in your brain. We got to pick this out. Let's 206 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: clamp your head between my knees, pour some coconut juice 207 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: on your scalp, and then we've got some freshly cut 208 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 1: leaves that we can just put on this wound to 209 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: dull the pain. Okay, that would be coca leaves. Cocoa 210 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: leaves exactly. And maybe you want to even have a 211 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: little bit of our homemade alcohol because things are going 212 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: to get need that crazy. Maybe some tobacco as well, even, yes, 213 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: some tobacco. I'm going to take the sharp object. It 214 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: could be perhaps a tooth from the animal. Good. Good, 215 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: sounds good. Okay, I'm gonna cut into your skull and 216 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna groove it around and around this fracture. You 217 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: have deeper into your skull, and uh, you have a 218 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: little bit more of those cocoa leaves, by the way, 219 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 1: and then you're gonna feel. It's kind of fucking feeling 220 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: when this plug of bone comes off of your brain, 221 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: so rather your skull, because it's kind of like my 222 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: brain is sealed in a in a tupperware, right, and 223 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: you've drilled through that type of ware with your tooth. Yes, 224 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: but it's not over yet because I have these great 225 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: forceps that I've fashioned out of bamboo, and now I'm 226 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: just gonna kind of pick around the wound, wash it 227 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: out with a little bit more coconut milk, and take 228 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: out any other sort of splinters because you know you 229 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,839 Speaker 1: don't want that, And I'm going to dress it with leaves, 230 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: a plaster of pepper, lime and beetlenut. Now excellent. Now 231 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: is there any way you could you could sew things 232 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: up there as well? Oh yeah, that's a good point. 233 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: That's we should really sew you up with some bat 234 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: bones and banana fibers before putting that dressing on. Thanks 235 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: for reminding me, because that could have been really bad. Yeah, 236 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: I would have had to come back, and you know 237 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: then that's two visits and I don't know how my 238 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: ink and insurance covers those, uh, those postop visits. Also 239 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: cut yourself lucky because if this were happening in the future, 240 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,079 Speaker 1: in like the nineteenth century, you might be toast because 241 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,719 Speaker 1: you know that coconut juice super good for keeping bacteria out, 242 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: and it turns out that that's a real killer. Yeah, 243 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: this is this touches on the really one of the 244 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: really interesting parts about it, especially when you're looking at 245 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: it from Squire's point you in his time, because again, 246 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: Western society had pretty much abandoned trepidation because despite improving tools, 247 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: you know, moving from more primitive instruments to two instruments 248 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: of metal and devices and clamps and whatnot to to 249 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: put on top of the head like you see in 250 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: the woodcuts. Um, despite all these advancements, there is still 251 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: pretty high mortality rate for individuals sustaining any kind of 252 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: nurse orry on up into the eighteen seventies, when a 253 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: survey found that as many as seventy six of neurosurgical 254 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: patients died now mostly from infect mostly from infection because 255 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: there's one thing to to dig around in there, but 256 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: then everything has to heal and and it's very susceptible 257 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: to infection. Now you compare this to New Guinea tribes 258 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: and uh, you see just thirty of those patients died. Wow, 259 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: So obviously there's something here to keeping the wound infection free. 260 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: And you think about this too, even like with childbirth fatalities, 261 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: once things were sterile sized and a good practice was 262 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: put into place that really got people over the hump 263 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: of the actual procedure itself and you know, helped them 264 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: to heal. And and here's a great example of Wow, 265 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: I um survived this Trepi nation, but now I might 266 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: pass away from an infected wound. Yeah. So it's kind 267 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: of a champion of the little man in a sense 268 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: because the squire ended up end up being the victor 269 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: in this uh, in this argument was indicated. Yeah, this 270 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: self taught archaeologists won over the esteemed French and neurologist 271 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: broke up. So kind of like that, and it's a 272 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: champion for these the so called primitive societies that were 273 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: looked down on. Uh. Suddenly people had to realize, Hey, 274 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: the ancient Incans, they knew what they were doing indeed, 275 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: and they were doing it in a way that was 276 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: more successful than they're more modern counterparts. All Right, we're 277 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break. Uh so when we get back, 278 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about Amanda Fielding, who had best 279 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: for performing her own trep nation. Alright, we're back, and 280 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's easy to think at this point in 281 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: the podcast, well, all right, we've discussed some of the 282 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: ideas about whine people would drill a hole in the head, 283 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: why trap nation was practiced, whine whin it is still 284 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: practiced today, and you might think, well, case closed. We've 285 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: sort of we've sort of figured it out. There are 286 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: a few cases in which we need to apply this 287 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: procedure in order to deal with some sort of injury 288 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: to the to the skull in some sort of brain 289 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: trauma or some sort of neurosurgery that requires access to 290 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: the brain. There couldn't be any wacky or pseudo scientific 291 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: or controversial reason to drill a hole in your head. Well, 292 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: let me see, you decided to drill a hole in 293 00:16:55,200 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: your head. Maybe you're trying to widen your consciousness. Yes, 294 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,360 Speaker 1: is that the wacky reason? I think so? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. 295 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: The idea of performing trepid nation generally on yourself because 296 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: it's hard to find somebody to do it for you 297 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: if your whole goal is to expand human consciousness. Uh yeah, 298 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: if it's not an emergency medical situation, most likely the 299 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: person the surgeon is not going to perform, right, and 300 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: that person agreeing to do it is probably not an 301 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: actual doctor, and you're probably not in a hospital. Yeah, 302 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 1: you should check references and look around. But yeah, I mean, 303 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 1: we are talking about Amanda Fielding, who documented her own 304 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: trepid nation, and this was a nineteen seventy film called 305 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: Heartbeat in the Brain. She is now seventy one years 306 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: old and is the director of the Beckley Foundation, a 307 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: trust that for over a decade has been carrying out 308 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: research into consciousness, including the use of LSD and other 309 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: psychoactive substances. She also ran for British Parliament twice on 310 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 1: the platform of trepi nation. And these great posters that 311 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,120 Speaker 1: she has at shows her with a bird on her 312 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: shoulder looking out in the distance, and then it says 313 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: tremp nation for the National Health. You know, that's an 314 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: interesting way to to sell trepidation, just with sort of 315 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: an abstract bird like, because I can easily imagine and 316 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 1: I not to poke fun a at or anything. But 317 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: I can imagine her bringing up this, this is being 318 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: her number one focus point for the campaign, and then 319 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: her campaign people saying, well, we need to present that 320 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: in a way that's a little maybe a little less 321 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: on the nose. Uh maybe no images of anyone actually 322 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: drilling into their head, if you're saying, more just a 323 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: bird staring off in the distance. I feel like she 324 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: took both tacks, though, because I think there's another one 325 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: around him, which is the sort of iconic image from 326 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: the documentary which her head is wrapped up and looking 327 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: in the mirror, in the mirror and there's some blood 328 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,439 Speaker 1: going down her face. Um so yeah, maybe she was 329 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: testing out, you know, a b situations there, but she 330 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: was advocating trepidation. She was saying, we would be better 331 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: off if we if we all did this. Before we 332 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: go into the wise of why she did it, let's 333 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: talk about how she did it, because again, she's filming herself, 334 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: she's in the mirror. She said in an interview with 335 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: Vice magazine. I was obviously very cautious and prepared myself 336 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 1: very carefully. I used an electric drill with a flat 337 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: bottom and a foot pedal and tested the drill head 338 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: on the membranes of my hands to see if it 339 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 1: would damage the skin. The whole thing was carefully prepared, 340 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: but more than anything, I prepared myself psychologically. It's the 341 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 1: last thing you want to do. After I'd performed the procedure, 342 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: I wrapped up my head with a scarf, had a 343 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: stake to replace iron from the lost blood. I think 344 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: almost a point by the way, and and went to 345 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: a party. It doesn't set you back at all. It 346 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: doesn't incapacity incapacitate you. It is just a half hour operation. 347 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: But in no way am I advocating the idea of 348 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: self trep nation. It should always be carried out by 349 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: members of the medical profession. So, and that's key here again. 350 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: If anyone reads this and here's this and thinks, oh 351 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: I want to that sounds interesting, I'd like to give 352 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: that a go. The the world's foremost trepennation advocate says, 353 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: do not do this at home. And not only that, 354 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: she says that, yes, she had a change in dream pattern. 355 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: She says her dreams became less anxious. But she says, 356 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: could all of that be described as a placebo? There is, 357 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 1: of course, that possibility and I am very conscious of that, 358 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: so she acknowledges, Yeah, I drolled a hole in my head. 359 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: I felt better for it. But you know what, I'm 360 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: aware of the placebo effect and this could perhaps be 361 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: just a psychological state for me. So let's talk about 362 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: why she did this to herself. Well, for starter, she 363 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: was the pupil of Bart Hugos, a Dutchman who in 364 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: nineteen six five carried out his own self trepennation in 365 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: order to expand his consciousness and uh and was a 366 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: huge advocate of it himself, claiming that it was a 367 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: way to essentially be high all the time. Yeah, and 368 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: it's side note too. He named his daughter Mary wanna Marijuana? 369 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: Well I read that that's he was actually kicked out 370 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: of medical school because he was a huge marijuana advocate. Yes, yeah, 371 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 1: so I just thought there's an interesting side note since 372 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 1: we just did an episode on names and how they 373 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: have these sort of self fulfilling prophecies sometimes. Anyway, I digress. Yeah, 374 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: a very interesting character. He came up with a concept 375 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: called brain blood volume. And this is this idea that 376 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: trepanning allows the full heartbeat to express itself. And Fielding says, hey, 377 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: when a baby is born, the top of the school 378 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: is really soft and flexible, and you have a fontanelle 379 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: closing and then the skull bones closed, And she says 380 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: this inhibits the full pulsation of the heartbeat, so it's 381 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: denied its full expression of the brain, so to speak. 382 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: That loss of pulse pressure results in a change of 383 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 1: ratio between the two fluids and the brain blood and 384 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 1: cerebral spinal fluid, which is important and won't get to 385 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 1: that in a moment. She says, it is blood that 386 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,719 Speaker 1: feeds the brain cells with what they need, such as 387 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: glucose and oxygen. It's the rebral spinal fluid removed some 388 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: of the toxic molecules. So she's saying that trump Nation 389 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: essentially works by restoring the full pulse pressure of the heartbeat. 390 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: And she has been doing some research lately about this 391 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: as it relates to Alzheimer's. But before we get into 392 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: the I thought it would be helpful for us to 393 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: kind of give a call back to a past episode 394 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: called The Night Janitor in which we talked about the 395 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 1: glymphatic system. Yeah, we're talking about the glymphatic system or 396 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: the glymphatic clearance pathway. It's a functional waste clearance pathway 397 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: in the mammalian central nervous system. And this discovery really 398 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: lands with the feet of Danish biologists making Nader guard Um. 399 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: She was leading research into sleep function at the University 400 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: of Rochester's Medical school, and uh, she didn't think everything 401 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: was really stacking up and making sense that I figured 402 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: that the brain is too busy to recycle all this energy, 403 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: that there's essentially a waste disposal problem with the human Yeah, 404 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: because she was looking at the lymphatic system. So muscles 405 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: um create toxic by products, right, and those build up 406 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: and then they're ushered out by the lymphatic system. So 407 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,959 Speaker 1: she was thinking, I don't think the brain can't be 408 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: doing that. The brain is so active during the day. 409 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: Maybe we can look at this at night and see 410 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: what's going on in terms of waste removal. Yeah. She 411 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: suspected that the brain shared a similar system that the 412 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,479 Speaker 1: muscles had and that the in the lymphatic system offered 413 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: um but instead it's predicated on cerebro spinal fluid in 414 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: what she called the lymphatic system with a nod to 415 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: the brains glial cells, which maintain homeostasis and protect neurons. 416 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: So what she did, she and her team injected anesthetized 417 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: mice with fluorescent tracers into their cerebro spinal fluids. So 418 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: this allowed them to track where the fluid was traveling 419 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: in their bodies, in their brains, and during the mice's 420 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: waking hours, that fluid barely made it into the brain, 421 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: but once sleep was induced, the brain cells of the 422 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: mice actually shrunk and that made way for a flood 423 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 1: of the cerebro spinal fluid, essentially hosing down the brain 424 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: of waste with the proteins and that these toxic byproducts 425 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: and ushering them out. And here's the weird thing. Are 426 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 1: not weird, but very very interesting, and humans with dementia 427 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: in Alzheimer's, there's an excess of the brain's toxic byproduct, 428 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: beta amyloid. So that is giving researchers a really big 429 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: reason to look into cerebro spinal fluid and see how 430 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: it takes away these these byproducts. Because the idea is 431 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: that if there's a build up well that can cause disease, 432 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: it's kind of like plaque, it's like brain plaque. So 433 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 1: now you have Russian neuro physiologists Urimus Nico who believes 434 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: that tref nation could act as a kind of release 435 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: valve and allow better circulation of the cerebro spinal fluid. 436 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: And he says that as we age the proteins in 437 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: the brain hard in preventing this system from working as 438 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: it should, and as a result, the flow of both 439 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: blood and cerebro spinal fluid is reduced and impairs the 440 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: delivery of oxygen and nutrients as well as a removal 441 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: of waste. Now, if I'm understanding this, right, Fielding is 442 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 1: actually working with that Russian researcher and has the same 443 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: beliefs about this. And you know, I almost didn't want 444 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: to even point these two things together, that the night 445 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: janitor that we discussed in the cerebro spinal fluid being 446 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: attached to UM, the build up of proteins and disease, 447 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: But it's so interesting that this trepinnation aspect of it 448 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: would come into play. Yeah, we were talking about this earlier, 449 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 1: you know, hesitant to draw any lines between UM such 450 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: an extreme activity as a self trepination or even advocating 451 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: self trefination and an actual grounded science. But the way 452 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: I like to look at it is this is an 453 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: extreme view, and it's kind of like taking the train 454 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: to the end of the line. Not everybody takes the 455 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: train to the end of the line of the tracks 456 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 1: maybe uh maybe you know, completely ironed out with with 457 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 1: real science, but you can follow the tracks. It's too far. 458 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: You can go a little too far down the line. 459 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: And even someone in an extreme position, that extreme position 460 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: is going to be entangled with with some truths a 461 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: lot of the time. And so who knows where this 462 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: exactly pans out in the end? Yes, well, of course 463 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: researchers needed, right and then the problem is hiding research 464 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: funding for tref nation, and um you know, I know 465 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: that they have looked at Alzheimer's patients before, and people 466 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: who have had head traumas and then had trepnation, and 467 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: they have seen that when they are trepidated, that the 468 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 1: that that blood flow increases, and then when they replace 469 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: that bone fragment or they seal it up, that it reduces. 470 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: So yes, that's true, but there's not enough research here 471 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: to say, ah, yes, this is the thing that will 472 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,199 Speaker 1: cure Alzheimer's or dementia. And in fact, I think the 473 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: real star of this story is the rebro spinal fluid 474 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: the fact that this is the stuff that hosts down 475 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: the works in your brain and takes out the toxic byproducts. 476 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: And then the second real story is that happens when 477 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: you sleep, So you have to have enough sleep in 478 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: order for you to get enough of that in your 479 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: brain to take away these toxic byproducts. Now, where this 480 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: is where my brain goes in all of this is 481 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: is not so much imagining the future where everybody goes 482 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: to the doctor and has a whole drilled in their head. 483 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: But but where this might lead is, as we understand 484 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: more about the subrospinal fluid, do we reach a point 485 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: where there is some other kind of trans human fix 486 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 1: in place to sort of tweak our evolved form for 487 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: operable performance, Like maybe it ends up being something that's 488 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: achieved with nanotechnology. Ah, that's true, that's the possibility, right. 489 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: Or is there a way to induce sell shrinkage in 490 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: your praying without any adverse side effects? Um that would 491 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: allow an easier path for the fluid. I don't know. 492 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 1: These are all really interesting questions, UM, But I thought 493 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 1: what was most interesting, UM in terms of Amanda Fielding 494 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: is that she's not entirely on board with the tremp nation, 495 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: like she's definitely interested in pursuing it as a path 496 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 1: to understanding consciousness and disease. But she says, in response 497 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: to the question by advice, would you be doing the 498 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: research even if you weren't japanned, She says, yes, I 499 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: think so. But I suppose that my personal experience of 500 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: getting japanned, which I of course would not put total 501 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: faith in, gave me the feeling that it's worthy of research. 502 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: So again, here she is sort of she's saying, yeah, 503 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: it's giving me a perspective that I want to pursue, 504 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,719 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure that it's the way to go. 505 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: M Do I think it is helpful? Yeah? Yeah, she 506 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: seems you know, for a person that that did undergo 507 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: um self trefination. You know, she's she's seemed to be 508 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: a very self conscious and very grounded individual. So there 509 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: you have trepidation, which, in a very loose sense is 510 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: is kind of like loosening the belt on your brains pants. Yeah, 511 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: eating a big meal, You've been thinking a lot of 512 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,479 Speaker 1: thoughts that meal, and then pop, Yeah, a little bit 513 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: more room, I suppose a little bit more room to expand. Yeah, 514 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: that's the idea. At least. Um again, it's it's kind 515 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: of a gruesome topic and sort of it was hard 516 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: to look at the footage. Anybody's curious. It's definitely out there. 517 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: That documentary is on YouTube and little um smatterings not 518 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: in its entirety, but very interesting style cool. Again, do 519 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: not try this at home. UM. As fascinating as the 520 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: topic is. However, some of you may have under undergone 521 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: some sort of neurosurgery in the past and have some 522 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: sort of insight on today's topic, and if so, we 523 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: would love to hear from you. UM. You can get 524 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: in touch with us a number of ways. Of course. 525 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: The mothership is Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 526 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: There you'll find links to all of our content. Our 527 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: podcast episodes, are blog posts, our videos, links out to 528 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: our social media accounts such as Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, Google Plus, 529 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: and YouTube. Where we are mind Stuff Show and Julie. 530 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: How else can we get in touch with this? You 531 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: can send us an email at Blow the Mind at 532 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: Discovery dot com for more on this and thousands of 533 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: other topics. Does it How stuff works dot com