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Speaker 1: He starts screaming, all and they said, I said, tell

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Speaker 1: me it's okay. No, no, no.

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Speaker 2: Here's what he says. I'm going to hell. Hello everybody,

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Speaker 2: I'm Tdjason. I want to welcome you. The next chapter,

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Speaker 2: Excited to have you here. We've got a very exciting guest.

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Speaker 2: He has dedicated his life to developing leaders, unlocking potential,

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Speaker 2: and building bridges between where people are and where they

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Speaker 2: are called to be. He's a husband, father, brother, and

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Speaker 2: a truth force in both the faith and personal development spaces.

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Speaker 2: If you're searching for clarity in the chaos, this conversation

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Speaker 2: is for you. Next chapter. Podcasts starts right now. Doctor

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Speaker 2: Joel Dudman. Glad to have you here today. Thank you

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Speaker 2: for having me. He's a father, he's a brother, he's

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Speaker 2: a son. He's played many roles in life, from strength

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Speaker 2: training coach to movie actor to author to doing all

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Speaker 2: sorts of things that are amazing. It's got an amazing life,

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Speaker 2: amazing story, and you're going to be inspired. Chapter number one,

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Speaker 2: Fight to find Yourself. You also got a new book.

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Speaker 2: Tell us about that. I got a new book.

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Speaker 1: Called The Fight to find Yourself, And I think this

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Speaker 1: book is going to help a whole lot of people

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Speaker 1: that are dealing with being a high performer but not

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Speaker 1: necessarily taking the time to dive deep into self and

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Speaker 1: to discover who you are. And I think what's interesting

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Speaker 1: about this book and it was Birth from your Platform. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you did a teaching one night on a plate on

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Speaker 1: stage with myself, Vinshaw Dobbins, Yes, and Mike, and we

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Speaker 1: begin to talk, and I made a statement in front

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Speaker 1: of thousands of people online that kind of shook the

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Speaker 1: male population.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you said, I don't even know who I am.

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Speaker 2: I said, I don't know who I am?

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Speaker 1: And I cried, and so many men started emailing in

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Speaker 1: saying I can't believe you said that. I can't believe

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Speaker 1: you would make a statement like that in front of

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Speaker 1: thousands of people online across the world. But it came

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Speaker 1: out without me even thinking about it. I had gotten

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Speaker 1: to the point to where the performance didn't matter anymore,

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Speaker 1: and you had coached me to a point as far

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Speaker 1: as the profession and the skill, that the skill could

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Speaker 1: only take you so far until you dove deep inside

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Speaker 1: of demand and started learning how to pull out all

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Speaker 1: of those issues and become vulnerable. And you told me

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Speaker 1: that it would be so it would be scary, but

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Speaker 1: I had gotten to the place where the skills no

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Speaker 1: longer mattered and I really wanted to discover who Joel is,

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Speaker 1: and through all those years of coaching, teaching, therapy, I

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Speaker 1: wrote about it.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about this, because I think it's a

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Speaker 2: wonderful celebration that you now know who you are, a

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Speaker 2: lot of people still have not found themselves, but maybe

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Speaker 2: if they read the book, they'll begin to find more

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Speaker 2: about themselves. It's a journey and then you change. You

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Speaker 2: change with age, different seasons to bring out different things

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Speaker 2: out of your life, different people, different regions, different tests

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Speaker 2: and trials, and so it's an ongoing process that you

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Speaker 2: continue to go through. But I want to ask you

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Speaker 2: about if you remember the first time we met, Yes,

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Speaker 2: and let's talk a little bit about that.

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Speaker 1: Well, I appreached for you, and after the service, you

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Speaker 1: had maybe ten or twelve people in a room, And

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Speaker 1: when I walked in the room, I never touched my food.

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Speaker 1: I sat there and I looked at you, had stared

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Speaker 1: at you the whole time. Number One, I couldn't believe

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Speaker 1: that you invited me. Number Two, I couldn't believe I

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Speaker 1: was that close to you and number three. I didn't

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Speaker 1: think the phone mattered to answer any text messages. I

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Speaker 1: didn't think anybody else in the room mattered, because it

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Speaker 1: was the first time I had gotten close to what

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Speaker 1: I would consider you're actually seeing your dream face to face.

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Speaker 1: I would love to be like him. I would love

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Speaker 1: to accomplish what he's accomplished, studying your journey, coming to

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Speaker 1: your conferences, sitting in the back room when you were

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Speaker 1: doing the conference for the men under forty get in

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Speaker 1: and I was sitting in the back room, and I

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Speaker 1: barely got in because we only were letting four hundred

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Speaker 1: people in the room. Yes, and I barely got in

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Speaker 1: the room. I'd be in the back. But here I

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Speaker 1: am sitting in the room with you, face to face,

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Speaker 1: no registration.

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Speaker 2: Your mother was there, My mama was there, My brother

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Speaker 2: was there, I remember, And.

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Speaker 1: I had nothing to say.

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Speaker 2: He was just staring at me, just staring at me

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Speaker 2: the whole time, staring at me like I was a

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Speaker 2: painted or something that didn't eat a bite, no food.

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Speaker 2: The food smell so good, yeah, you know, but it

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Speaker 2: was it was obvious that something deep was going on.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't read your mind, obviously, but I could tell

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Speaker 2: that it was a very important moment to you and

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Speaker 2: for you. You preach to you been a blessing to us,

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Speaker 2: and then come upstairs for the kind of fellowship that

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Speaker 2: we normally have. And that was the first time I

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Speaker 2: met your father too. I remember, yeah, that was the

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Speaker 2: first time I met your father too, and you acknowledged

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Speaker 2: him from the stage and it was a great, great experience.

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Speaker 2: You have done so many amazing things. As you went

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Speaker 2: back home to pastor in Oklahoma City and went back

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Speaker 2: to work strength training coach for Oklahoma State University, and

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Speaker 2: you went back to your your life for a little while.

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Speaker 2: And then when we talked about you coming here and

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Speaker 2: you wanted to come here to sit up under this

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Speaker 2: ministry to see you said, I want to see another

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Speaker 2: style a ministry. I want to see what it's like.

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Speaker 2: I want to learn, and I want to end up

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Speaker 2: pastoring again, and so forth and so on, and so

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Speaker 2: we knew when you came here you came here as

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Speaker 2: a student, but we did not know that you were

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Speaker 2: going to go to Jake's Divinity School and earn your

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Speaker 2: doctorate degree and didn't walk with the other people. But

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Speaker 2: we surprised, Oh, that was a surprise. I'll never forget. Yeah, Shay, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know, I know, I know I set you up

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Speaker 2: on that once you did. Yeah, But I did not

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Speaker 2: think it was right for you to sacrifice such an

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Speaker 2: important moment to be with us and us not reach

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Speaker 2: out and reciprocate by acknowledging that sacrifice and making it

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Speaker 2: a special moment that you could always remember and hold

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Speaker 2: on too. In front of thousands and thousands dpeople, it

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Speaker 2: was packed.

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Speaker 1: Bishop. What I thought was why it was worth it

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Speaker 1: was because I came to get the mentorship. But most important,

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Speaker 1: you told me years prior that the model was important.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to study every facet of the model.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to see how you moved the ministry within

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Speaker 1: the ecosystem, how you would take off the pastors had

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Speaker 1: I hadn't put on the business man's whether it was

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Speaker 1: for profit or not for profit. How you would deal

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Speaker 1: with the different polarizations of politics, how you would handle

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Speaker 1: those people yet stay in the middle, stay well respected

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Speaker 1: so that the voices could be heard, so the people

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Speaker 1: could hear from both sides. How you moved in chaos.

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Speaker 1: When COVID nineteen hit, you were preaching two sermons recording

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Speaker 1: and go up, change clothes, come back, preach it again.

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Speaker 1: Nobody in the room but maybe ten of us, and

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Speaker 1: you're preaching as if the room was jammed backed, watching it,

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Speaker 1: watching you when the vaccine hit and everybody was challenging,

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Speaker 1: and how you met it face first and was interviewing

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Speaker 1: the Surgeon General. All of those things matter to me.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to just see church on Sunday. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to see how you made moves, how you pulled

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Speaker 1: people in partnerships, broke people in to make something happen.

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Speaker 1: And the graduation was important, but it's the same thing

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Speaker 1: everywhere you go as a cap and the gown, and

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Speaker 1: it's a diploma, and I had already earned it. So

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Speaker 1: I wanted to see how you moved thousands of people

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Speaker 1: with important guests that come across the world, how you

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Speaker 1: led those people, how you stay out of the way

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Speaker 1: of your leaders to allow them to lead. All of that,

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Speaker 1: I think was graduation just as important.

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Speaker 2: And it was a very unique model because of the

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Speaker 2: whether you know it or not, our own several for

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Speaker 2: profit companies over see a foundation that does work for

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Speaker 2: the community. I have passed to the church. I have

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Speaker 2: a lot of different roles good Soil where we train entrepreneurs,

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Speaker 2: and he was interested in everything. He wanted to know everything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was worth the risk because I walked away

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Speaker 1: from my career, I walked away from my ministry. It

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Speaker 1: was nothing as this level, but it was what I

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Speaker 1: have built with my hands. But walking away and walking

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Speaker 1: into something that you could learn so many different things, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was worth it.

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Speaker 2: You have always had a hunger about you and a

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Speaker 2: thirst for knowledge. You cannot feed a closed mouth. The

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Speaker 2: mouth has to be opened in order for it to

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Speaker 2: be fed, and not everybody has an open mouth to receive.

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Speaker 2: People who go to conferences often just come away with

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Speaker 2: something that they can preach or that they can use

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Speaker 2: when they get back home, but they really don't have

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Speaker 2: the thirst to see how it was done, how it

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Speaker 2: was built, how it was managed, how it was organized,

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Speaker 2: how it was marketed, how it was handled in crisis

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Speaker 2: and situations like you just want to see everything and

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Speaker 2: take a panoramic view, not just a preaching but leadership.

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Speaker 2: Leadership and preaching and pastoring are all different things, and

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Speaker 2: leadership is transferable truths that you can use whether you're

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Speaker 2: in the pulpit or whether you're a CEO. Leadership is leadership.

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Speaker 2: There's a certain dignity, a certain excellence, a certain ecosystem

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Speaker 2: that has to be developed in order for you to

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Speaker 2: be functional or organizational chart, and understanding that organizational chart

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Speaker 2: being able to flow from talking to a deacon and

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Speaker 2: a trustee to a CEO, a COO, and a CFO.

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Speaker 2: So you got to see a little taste of some

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Speaker 2: of everything. Chapter number two, Father figures. Let's go back

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Speaker 2: for a moment, though, and talk about little Joe. If

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Speaker 2: the one I didn't get to meet, you grew up

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Speaker 2: in a home, in a situation where your parents went

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Speaker 2: through a divorce. What was that like for you?

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Speaker 1: It was traumatic for me because I was a really

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Speaker 1: daddy's boy in the beginning. I wanted to be around him.

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Speaker 1: I would go with him when he preached. If not him,

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Speaker 1: his father, Superintendent Harold Tupman, so he would pick myself

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Speaker 1: up and my cousin Jared. He was an old tent

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Speaker 1: revival preacher and he would carry just like you have

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Speaker 1: this little box. He would be driving because his eight

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Speaker 1: track didn't always work, so he would hold his tape

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Speaker 1: recorder like this and drive the truck and it would

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Speaker 1: just be full of preacher. Whether it was Baptist preachers,

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Speaker 1: Plocostal preachers, it didn't matter. So he always would pick

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Speaker 1: us up to be the musicians, and we couldn't play terrible,

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Speaker 1: but he let us play proud.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: We backed him up when he preached. And so the

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Speaker 1: hunger to be around wisdom men of God, it was

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Speaker 1: always there and Dad, if it was with him, it

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Speaker 1: would be with my grandfather. So when they actually split

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Speaker 1: and he goes to Texa, Kanta, my granddad was still

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Speaker 1: in unpleasant so we still had an opportunity to be

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Speaker 1: around him. So it was always wanting to be around

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Speaker 1: my father. But when he left and went to Texas Kana,

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Speaker 1: then there was some distance and it was hard to

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Speaker 1: get to see him. So we would go I think

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Speaker 1: the first and the fifth Sunday or the first and

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Speaker 1: the fourth Sunday for his church, and my mom played

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Speaker 1: for a Baptist church and we would be with her

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Speaker 1: for the second and third or whatever those opposite sundays.

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Speaker 2: Was there a certain amount of anger and resentment as

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Speaker 2: a result after a while, Yeah, it wasn't. At first.

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Speaker 2: First it was okay, but he couldn't make things.

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Speaker 1: That's when it started getting bad, and I didn't understand

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Speaker 1: as a child.

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Speaker 2: When you say couldn't make things, you mean couldn't come

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Speaker 2: to the events.

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Speaker 1: You know, playing in the band track and feel. I

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Speaker 1: didn't understand as a kid his responsibilities marriage and the

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Speaker 1: children in that marriage, and the church in that city.

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Speaker 1: I just knew he wasn't there for us, and that

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Speaker 1: caused a lot of anger, a lot of resentment, serious

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Speaker 1: anger issues too, so much so that I had to

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Speaker 1: get on I think the pressing pills or something had

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Speaker 1: to calm my rage down so I wouldn't be so angry.

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Speaker 1: I would punch holes in the sheet rock. I got

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Speaker 1: a lot of trouble, yeah, because I couldn't control my temper,

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Speaker 1: But I was really just acting out because I didn't

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Speaker 1: like the situation at all.

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Speaker 2: The reason I think this is important is because a

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Speaker 2: lot of mothers who go through a divorce are so

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Speaker 2: angry at their husband's that they don't let their husband

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Speaker 2: be in the life of their child, and they don't

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Speaker 2: always understand that it's often to the detriment of the child. Yes, sir,

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Speaker 2: if the husband is not devan or anything like that.

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Speaker 2: That a boy gets something and a girl gets something

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Speaker 2: from access to their father that's different from their mother.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying that mothers can't raise successful children, because

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Speaker 2: they do it all the time. But the more desirable

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Speaker 2: thing is to have both parents in your life. They

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Speaker 2: kind of balance each other out. It took a long

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Speaker 2: time for you to get over that anger. I think

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Speaker 2: when you came here, you still had a good bit

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Speaker 2: of that anger forever. I built the wall. Yeah, that

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Speaker 2: allowed me to be safe with my anger. I had

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Speaker 2: already lost enough with being explosive. I had already penalized

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Speaker 2: myself with the school. I signed scholarship with the Razorbacks

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Speaker 2: in high school. I lost that scholarship because of anger.

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Speaker 2: I lost a lot of people's respect because of anger.

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Speaker 2: So even in my own family, I lost a lot

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Speaker 2: of respect, and.

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Speaker 1: It sent me down a rabbit hole that disqualified me

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Speaker 1: from a lot of opportunity because of anger. So as

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Speaker 1: I read paired myself therapy at that time, I am

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Speaker 1: to with anger management and still trying to complete college

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Speaker 1: differently than the way it started. I recognized that that's

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Speaker 1: not going to help me. So I built this wall. Now,

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Speaker 1: the wall cripulically because the wall kept me from being

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Speaker 1: in touch with myself being in touch with my true emotions.

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Speaker 1: So the wall protected me from the expectations of my father,

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Speaker 1: because that's why I built it. He's not going to come,

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Speaker 1: he's not going to show up, so I'm gona build

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Speaker 1: the wall that way, I never have to worry about disappointment. Disappointment,

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Speaker 1: but inside the wall, in private, I punch it and

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Speaker 1: going crazy. So I was safe in there. But the

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Speaker 1: only thing is I never developed emotionally because everything stayed

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Speaker 1: trapped in that wall.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're going to talk about the emojis in

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Speaker 2: a minute. We'll get to that in a minute. But

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Speaker 2: it's funny. The resentment also read as rejection, yes, sir.

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Speaker 2: So the way you interpreted your family's off putting attitude

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Speaker 2: as a result of your anger and hostility, you became

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Speaker 2: the victim all the while you were also the perpetrator. Absolutely, yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I think that's a very interesting thing to see

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Speaker 2: because in your mind they rejected you, but in their

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Speaker 2: mind you acted out in such a way that they

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Speaker 2: had no choice but to put them aside. At what

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Speaker 2: point did you begin to get a breakthrough in your

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Speaker 2: understanding about family life and to see things through a

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Speaker 2: different lens.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is going to sound very bad. I lived

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Speaker 1: almost fifteen seasons coaching. That's fifteen years not doing family things. Now,

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Speaker 1: in sports and football, you played during the holidays, and

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Speaker 1: so if you're playing during the holidays, that's a great

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Speaker 1: thing because you've had a successful season football season. The

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Speaker 1: football season became an excuse for me not to deal

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Speaker 1: with my family. So I had built a world where

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Speaker 1: I did not have to be there. And if we

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Speaker 1: won at least eight games, then I knew I wouldn't

295
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Speaker 1: have to go to Christmas. I wasn't going to have

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Speaker 1: to go be around my family for Thanksgiving. So I'll

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Speaker 1: be praying that we win. Number one, the money was good.

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Speaker 1: Number two, I wouldn't have to deal with it. So

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Speaker 1: for fifteen years, for sure, it wasn't that I didn't care.

300
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Speaker 1: I didn't have to. So after fifteen years, it's avoidance.

301
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Speaker 1: I started realizing, I'm getting older and I'm going to

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Speaker 1: die alone if I don't fix the stuff that's been

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Speaker 1: broken all this time.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what we would call one We would

305
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,320
Speaker 2: call it avoidance, and the other one we would call

306
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Speaker 2: emotional intelligence Because a lot of times with men, they

307
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Speaker 2: have emotions, but they don't have words to put with

308
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Speaker 2: those emotions. So the most acceptable way to express those

309
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Speaker 2: emotions is rage, because that is the one emotion that

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Speaker 2: men are allowed to feel and still feel masculine. They're

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Speaker 2: kind of concerned about crying or opening up or even

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Speaker 2: finding the words to say, I feel rejected, I feel ostracized.

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Speaker 2: Very difficult to find words for that. In fact, when

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Speaker 2: I first met you, you didn't use many words with me.

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Speaker 2: He would send me, he would send me these emojis,

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Speaker 2: you know. I'd send him a heart at the end

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Speaker 2: of a statement, and he would send me one of

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Speaker 2: those emojis on a strong arm fists, you know. So

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Speaker 2: it took quite a while to get him to admit that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: two years, two years, two years yet, and he would

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Speaker 2: he would shake my hand and you know, give me

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Speaker 2: the brother thing. And eventually he hugged me. Because in

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Speaker 2: some ways I became a surrogate father.

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Speaker 1: She became father for real, and it's I was afraid

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Speaker 1: to show that side of me. I think masculinity has

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Speaker 1: so many different definitions. I think it's multi layered. And

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Speaker 1: how I was socialized into what I believe masculinity was

328
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Speaker 1: what's through the neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: Because my father wasn't there.

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Speaker 1: So whatever that social status looked like in my neighborhood,

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Speaker 1: that's what a man.

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Speaker 2: Was street life.

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Speaker 1: So I didn't have room for what at that time

334
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Speaker 1: I would have called soft, even though I would have

335
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Speaker 1: been considered solve to the hardest person on the street.

336
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Speaker 1: But in my ecosystem, in my world, I just didn't

337
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Speaker 1: have the language for Hey, I love you or want

338
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,400
Speaker 1: to give you a hug or cry in front of you.

339
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,800
Speaker 1: Didn't have the language for that, and to me, that

340
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,920
Speaker 1: was just pure weakness. So then when I stepped into

341
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 1: this world where you're look at me in my face

342
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 1: and you're talking to me like a father, and you

343
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,879
Speaker 1: said things to me that my natural father never said,

344
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,159
Speaker 1: so it checked me. But I respect you so much.

345
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 1: I wouldn't talk back to you. You know what I'm saying.

346
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:29,880
Speaker 1: I wouldn't go talk back to you. But I didn't

347
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 1: understand them. The first time you asked that much money

348
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 1: i'm me, you know, I thought that was so rude.

349
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 1: I was like, ask me how much money i'm me,

350
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 1: you know, and he was like, I don't want it

351
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Speaker 1: from you. How much money do you mean?

352
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Speaker 2: You know?

353
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Speaker 1: And but that's how toxic.

354
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had become.

355
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Speaker 1: Now, some say there's such thing as toxic masculinity, some

356
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 1: say it's not. That's an argument, and then some say

357
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:58,159
Speaker 1: there's toxic attributes. I agree with that. My attributes towards

358
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:03,919
Speaker 1: my masculinity, I know, were one hundred percent toxic because

359
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 1: of how I was socialized. And it wasn't until I

360
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,439
Speaker 1: got to you, Yeah, until I had to see the

361
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 1: other layers of masculinity, the other expressions, and to understand

362
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 1: it's okay.

363
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 2: Which affects every area of your life. It affects your marriage,

364
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 2: It affects your ministry, it affects your how you relate

365
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:28,640
Speaker 2: to your children, it affects absolutely everything. And honestly and frankly,

366
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 2: you were kind of failing at all over every less,

367
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 2: every less. Yeah, yeah, So we had the family glued

368
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 2: together with paper clips and scotch tape, the masking tape

369
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:41,160
Speaker 2: and some of everything.

370
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 1: That's what I think was so beautiful about you is

371
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Speaker 1: that you didn't run from it because I was so broken,

372
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 1: I was so fractured that I thought the skill was

373
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 1: the one thing that could keep everything together. But you

374
00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 1: showed me that that's not true, and that the better

375
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,160
Speaker 1: the other piece has got the better the skill would

376
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: get saying I didn't understand that. I was so focused

377
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,440
Speaker 1: on the skill, yeah, that all the other pieces were

378
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 1: just fracture, just breaking, crumbling apart. But when you start

379
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 1: helping me fix the other layers, then I started understanding that. Man,

380
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: the way I've been thinking is completely toxic. And that's

381
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 1: when the healing begins.

382
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 2: And it is also difficult for people who are very,

383
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 2: very talented. Not the camouflage behind the talent because we

384
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 2: just love the talent, Yes, sir, we love the talent,

385
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,120
Speaker 2: but we don't necessarily pay attention to the person who

386
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 2: is talented, and so it's the easy camouflage for you

387
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 2: to hide behind it. I went back there to get you.

388
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 2: Oh you did? You did? Yeah? You remember when I

389
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 2: called you off from behind the door. Yeah.

390
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 1: When you tell the story, it's way different than when

391
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: I tell you. So you tell he tells the story

392
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: like he said, hey, come over behind that door. There

393
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: was about one hundred men in the room, and he said,

394
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 1: come over from behind that door. In the whole room

395
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 1: sided and looked back in there. I was standing behyd

396
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: the door, so I was at the doors. Everybody knew

397
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 1: he was talking to me. But it was at that

398
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 1: moment I was going to do one or two things.

399
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: And typically what I would have done is walked away,

400
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 1: just said, man, forget this. Ain't talk to me like that.

401
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 1: But I didn't. My respect for you was so high.

402
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 1: I walked in the room and tried to fit in.

403
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 2: You know why I call you from behind the door

404
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 2: because you look like a little boy hiding behind the door,

405
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 2: unaccepted a fred and peeking around the corner. And I

406
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 2: might have spoke a little more stronger than I normally do,

407
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 2: but I wanted to shock you into coming out from

408
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 2: behind that door. Because as long as you hide behind

409
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 2: the door, or behind the football, or behind the check

410
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 2: or behind the house, or behind the talent of preaching

411
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 2: or whatever it is you do your PhD or whatever

412
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: it is that you do, as long as you hide

413
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 2: behind that, you can't get any better. I wanted you

414
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 2: to know that you can come out from behind the door.

415
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 2: You can join us at the table. It was an invitation,

416
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,239
Speaker 2: although it was a stern invitation, and I think that

417
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 2: it sounded so hard to you because you were not

418
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 2: used to the voice of a father. A father's voice

419
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,959
Speaker 2: sounds different than a mother's voice to a young man,

420
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: and it is very important that there be a certain

421
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: level of discipline in there, because discipline is how we

422
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 2: smell love.

423
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: Wow.

424
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 2: If we don't have any discipline, we interpret it as

425
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: you don't care. Yes, so we'll do anything we want

426
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 2: to do.

427
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: Okay, I think what's important now that I look back

428
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: over it, and I'm not just saying this today. It's

429
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: a part of When I was writing a book, I

430
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: was behind the door of isisue. I didn't know where

431
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: it was in that room that I knew. They knew

432
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: who they were, I didn't, so it was hard for

433
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: me to think that I could fit in. I didn't

434
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: have the capacity at that time to think that I

435
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: could fit in. So that's one of the things that

436
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 1: happens to you. When you don't know who you are

437
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: and you're only known for what you can do, you

438
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: forfeit your identity. I called it in the book identity foreclosure.

439
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: And you're so used to packing on these presentations, these

440
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: outer layers so that you can be what you need

441
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: to be in those rooms, and when you run out

442
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: of time, when you run out of layers, when you

443
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: run out of mask, you're stuck with what's left and

444
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: if you don't know what's left, you're in a compromising place.

445
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 2: I said it in the car with you one day

446
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 2: and I spoke to the little boy inside of you,

447
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 2: and I said, I'm not going to leave you. I remember,

448
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 2: and you melted you, sir, because I knew that the

449
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 2: down inside you felt like everybody had left you. And

450
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 2: I said, I am not going leave me. And I

451
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 2: haven't had a no not I have been able to

452
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 2: tell you everything about my life. They've been sitting all this.

453
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you one vision didn't tell me. You

454
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,959
Speaker 2: didn't tell me that you went out, that you almost

455
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 2: ended up in the NFL. I didn't.

456
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: I've read that in these I said, I didn't know that. Well,

457
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: it wasn't that almost ended up. You know, you get

458
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,479
Speaker 1: an opportunity to go to different workouts and if they

459
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: like you, to keep you.

460
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.

461
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: Unfortunately they didn't like me. But I did get the

462
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: opportunity to work out with a few teams that had

463
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: a lot of interest in me at that time. And

464
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: it didn't work, but I did get that. But you

465
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: ended up being a stress trainer. You were still in

466
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: that venue, in that area, still participating in that way.

467
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: But I'm wondering if these rejections are adding up. Okay,

468
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: so we were multi layered. We're not dealing with a

469
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: peanut butter sandwich. This is a big mac not going

470
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: to the NFL. For men that have go to college,

471
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: have a successful college career, if they don't have a

472
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: built in transition for what's next, it's one of the

473
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 1: most horrific moments in their life. Even the guys that

474
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: have gone to the NFL and have had a ten year,

475
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 1: twelve year successful career, and when they step out they

476
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 1: haven't created a business. If they haven't, it's hard right

477
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 1: next it's one of the hardest.

478
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a big subject. It's one of the hardest

479
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: things to face.

480
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: You don't know what to do.

481
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 2: We got to talk about that for men, because I mean,

482
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 2: the whole podcast is called next Chapter. And I have

483
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 2: pastored a lot of men who played football, and when

484
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: the game is over, they don't know what life is

485
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 2: after the goal post, and they often get lost, and

486
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 2: they often get in trouble and they can't find themselves,

487
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 2: or they open up businesses and the businesses shut down.

488
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: They don't know how to handle money. And part of

489
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 2: my responsibility as a father was to bring some discipline

490
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 2: into how you handle money so that you would have

491
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 2: something when you got older, and I was holding you

492
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 2: accountable to do something with what you had. And nobody

493
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 2: had ever done that before.

494
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: Never.

495
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

496
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 1: I think it's important Bishop what you have done. I've

497
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: talked to several players that you've mentored, some that are

498
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: with me now, and our stories are so similar, even

499
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: though we may be on different paths. How you were direct,

500
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: how you chewed us out, how you pulled us back,

501
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: pushed us forward so that we could be solid in

502
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: whatever next was so thank you for that.

503
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 2: I got a question for you, why do you care?

504
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 2: I don't think that you can help anybody unless you

505
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 2: see a little bit of yourself and then wow, I

506
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 2: don't think that you can really be a therapist, a pastor,

507
00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 2: a leader or disciple, or even a father until you

508
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 2: see somewhat of yourself and them in the Bible call

509
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 2: it Kinsman, redeemer. You have to be keen. You have

510
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 2: to be kin to me. I have to recognize the

511
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: little boy and you having had the little boy and me, okay,

512
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 2: and having dealt with the little boy and me, it's

513
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: still dealing with him from time to time. I was

514
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: able to recognize behind that hard exterior and you had

515
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 2: many layers of heart. Is here you hard to get through.

516
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 2: You were one of the hardest ones to get through. Okay,

517
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 2: you get the trophy. Okay, you get the trophy. But

518
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 2: up underneath there, the man was raging because the boy

519
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 2: was sweeping. Oh yes, sir. And the man was having

520
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 2: children and playing the role of a father, but a

521
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 2: role he didn't have, and that resentment was toxic and

522
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 2: it brought a lot of pain. Chapter number three, Family

523
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 2: and Tragedy. Let's talk about your children and what you

524
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 2: went through and what you're going through now and trying

525
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 2: to be a father to them.

526
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: My kids are amazing. When you're young and you're not

527
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: disciplined and you have children in different places in the beginning,

528
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: it starts off embarrassing. As you get older and you

529
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,479
Speaker 1: start to try to fix pieces of what was broken,

530
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: because you're never going to be able to quote unquote

531
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: fix it to be perfect. What I had to realize

532
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: is that I was not going to be able to

533
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: be in every house, every morning, every night, at every

534
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: game on the same Saturday, because there's only one Saturday

535
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: and they all played on it, or they all played

536
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: on the same Friday, and they all had the same cry.

537
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 2: So you had different children by different women in different areas,

538
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 2: and now your task was trying to be how do

539
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: I get there? How do I get there?

540
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: I can't and you can't, and it would it would

541
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: drive me insane because if I please him, I disappointed her.

542
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: If I pleased her, I disappointed her disappointed him. So

543
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: it's just a cycle of insufficiency. And so as they

544
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: got older and started to understand and recognize and we

545
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: started repairing those relationships, and those relationships have had their

546
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: abs and flows. Yeah, but what I think is beautiful

547
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: now that now most of them are all of age,

548
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: we have an amazing time talking about our healing process

549
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: and what we've gone through, and even the things that

550
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: I've gone through as of the last four or five years,

551
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: losing my oldest son, losing my father. We all get

552
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: on zooms and we all talk about it, and they

553
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: all texted me and tell me they love me, and

554
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: they all say Dad, we're here for you, Dad, we

555
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: love you. Even if they feel like they haven't heard

556
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: from me, they say, hey, Dad, you're good. Hey call me,

557
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: but they know something's going on, they know that I'm

558
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: dealing with something psychologically. But it all started with me

559
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: just being open and honest with them. And I'll say

560
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: this to any man that's in that situation, because again,

561
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: when I was younger, it was embarrassing. From when I

562
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: got older, I found out it was actually normal. Or

563
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: other men that are in similar situations. You got to

564
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 1: figure out what works for you. You know, if it's

565
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: calling the mother to talk to the son, if it's

566
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: calling the mother to talk to the daughter so that

567
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: the sun picks up the phone, or if it's paying

568
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: for the phone so the sun picks up the phone,

569
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 1: whatever that is, whatever works for you, keep your foot

570
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: on the gas and keep trying. Even if you feel

571
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: guilty like you haven't, keep doing it. Keep doing it

572
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: because what's next is going to beautiful when it actually catches,

573
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: when it actually settles, something's going to birth. That's going

574
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: to be beautiful. That would never happen if you don't try.

575
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 2: I was with you during this time he lost your son, Yes, sir,

576
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: and that was a very difficult time. Yes, sir, Tell

577
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 2: me what went through your mind during that time? So

578
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: many different things. My son came to live with us

579
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 2: when he was in his tenth grade. He was an

580
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: amazing athlete and he graduated. He was a yes, sir,

581
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: no sir kind of kid.

582
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: He had some issues like any other child, but he

583
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: had gotten into some things that weren't like him and

584
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: they were scary. And when he passed, I felt guilty

585
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: of the years that he weren't, that he wasn't, that

586
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: he was not with me. You know, I was like,

587
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: I should have been there. I was playing college football

588
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: and his mom was a great mother. She raised him.

589
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: The stuff that he was going through. I couldn't do

590
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: anything about it. I felt insufficient. I called you. I

591
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do right and uh. And so

592
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: when he passed, I had an avalanche of emotions that

593
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: I never felt before.

594
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 2: UH. For instance, guilt, guilt, also guilt, tons of guilt,

595
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 2: without just going into the details.

596
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: You know, we had talked maybe three days before he passed,

597
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: and he had asked me something. I disagreed with him

598
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: about it, and I said, no, you can't do that.

599
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: I wish I could have that conversation back. Yeah, I

600
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 1: wish I could have it back. So it can't have

601
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: it And I asked you about it, and you know,

602
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 1: he was like, this is what you should have said,

603
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: you know, And I can't fix that. Yeah, I can't

604
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: fix it.

605
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 2: What what does a man do with things he can

606
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 2: and not fixed and cannot change. I think that there

607
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 2: are all of us have things where we have said

608
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 2: or done something that we wish we had a chance

609
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 2: to do it over, and we can't do it over.

610
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 2: And that guilt is like cancer, Wow, how do you

611
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 2: cut out the cancer and leave the kidney? Because that

612
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 2: guilt was overwhelming. The guilt was overwhelming. I think number one,

613
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 2: you got to talk about it. You got to get

614
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 2: it out. You can't leave it inside because that's going

615
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 2: to cause that's going to make the cancer spread. Constant

616
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 2: contemplation of it, constant rehearsing of it makes it spread

617
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 2: and creates worry, and it rips you of your ability

618
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,919
Speaker 2: to even progressively move towards anything else that you're doing.

619
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 2: So fortunately I did have you to just tell the

620
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 2: truth to the whole story.

621
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: That helped me moving from that. Of course, prayer, I

622
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,919
Speaker 1: think that's the normal answer. So yes, you gotta pray,

623
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: but you gotta have someone you can talk to. I

624
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: was able to talk to you. Number three, I had

625
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: to talk to my children because my children played a

626
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: critical role in what happened. They didn't tell me they knew,

627
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: and I had an extreme amount of resist resentment towards

628
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: the children didn't do and they're my kids. They didn't

629
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: tell me. So when was the first time that you

630
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: saw him there? Well, I had to go there as

631
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 1: soon as they told me, and they let me see

632
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: him immediately. And what was that feeling like? I don't

633
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: have words to describe that. I don't know what that

634
00:36:52,400 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 1: would be like. I can't He was not there and

635
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: it didn't even look like him, I mean, life was gone.

636
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: I saw my kids reaction to him before I saw him,

637
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 1: because they ran into the funeral home soon as we parked,

638
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 1: and when I walked in, they were around his body

639
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: and they were losing it. So my immediate reaction was

640
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: to comfort them, and after I got them settled down,

641
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 1: then I went to him.

642
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: There is an association between our eyes and our memories.

643
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 2: What helps us to remember a particular situation is how

644
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 2: we saw it, and those memories continue to live with us,

645
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: and those images stay with us in our head, and

646
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 2: learning how to manage those images because they come without invitation.

647
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 2: They come at odd times, all the song is being sung.

648
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 2: They come in the middle of a movie, and all

649
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 2: of a sudden, you are right back there again in

650
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 2: that situation. Do they still come now at time? All

651
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:12,760
Speaker 2: the time?

652
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: I keep pictures of him. He smiled all the time,

653
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,479
Speaker 1: so I have all of his pictures in my phone.

654
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: I've got hundreds of pictures of him from his Instagram

655
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: page for pictures that we took. I have his pictures

656
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:32,479
Speaker 1: of him when he passed. I rarely look at those.

657
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: I always think of him as he was now when

658
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: he comes to mind, to kind of go back to

659
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: maybe what you asked me earlier. Before I saw him

660
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: in the gurney, I saw in my mind what his

661
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: grandfather told me how he found so whenever, that's the

662
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: most horrible one, So that's the immediate thought. But they

663
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,479
Speaker 1: told me how they found it. That's what I always see.

664
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: I don't like that.

665
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a lot of people that are listening

666
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 2: at us right now who have images that will not

667
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 2: go away, that cannot be erased, that they have to

668
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 2: deal with and live with all the time in dreams

669
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 2: and thoughts. I have them. I was holding my mother

670
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,399
Speaker 2: when she died, she died in my arms. I can

671
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 2: still feel her head on my chest. And she died

672
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 2: in ninety nine, okay, and I can still feel her

673
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 2: head right in my chest to this day, right now,

674
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 2: sitting here. So life hands us some terrible situations, and

675
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 2: we have to learn how to manage and cope with

676
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 2: those situations as the best we can. When you came

677
00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 2: to me and we started talking through this, that guilt,

678
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 2: to me was also connected to you and your father,

679
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 2: and I could see a stairstep between what was going

680
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 2: on between you and your father and what was going

681
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: on between you and him, and it was all interconnected.

682
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 2: I know that was a painful spot. I won't say

683
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,280
Speaker 2: I know how you feel, because I've never lost a child.

684
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 2: I can't even fathom what that would be like. But

685
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: I know that there are people listening at us who

686
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 2: are weeping right now because they have images of their

687
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 2: child in their head, and they know what you are

688
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 2: feeling right at this moment. It's not natural to bury

689
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: your child. It's natural for the child to bury the parent,

690
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 2: And yet unnatural things happen to us in life, and

691
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: we have to get around them. Plot the fact that

692
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 2: you get around it as well as you do, but

693
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 2: also understand the fact that people who see you on

694
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 2: stage or in a film, or in a movie, or

695
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 2: in a book or preaching a message don't know all

696
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 2: the things you had to climb over climbing yeah, yeah, yeah,

697
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,439
Speaker 2: to be up on that stage and do what you do.

698
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 1: I believe.

699
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 2: That God turns pain into power. I believe that some

700
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 2: of the things that make us great are some of

701
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 2: the most horrific things that we have ever gone through.

702
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 2: And that's why we ought not to envy other people,

703
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 2: because you don't know the price they paid to be

704
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 2: who they are. It is odd to me that often

705
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 2: we see comedians who make everybody laugh and then they

706
00:41:52,640 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 2: go commit suicide. You see people on TV who seem successful,

707
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 2: living a golden life, but they are also living with

708
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 2: that pain. I see that pain in your face right now.

709
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 2: The fact that you have that pain and not that

710
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 2: rage that once would have mastered is to me a

711
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 2: sign of healing. When you look that pain in the

712
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 2: face and call it what it is and allow yourself

713
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 2: the humanity of missing your son is a very important thing.

714
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 2: Chapter number four, losing a father. You shocked me. I'm

715
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 2: gonna get off that. You shocked me, You really really

716
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 2: shocked me when your father got sick. All of this

717
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 2: happened back today, it was one thing right after another, struggling,

718
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 2: trying to put things together, trying to hold things together,

719
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 2: thinking about staying, thinking about leaving, going through all kinds

720
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 2: of changes, miserable, grief, stricken, guilty, angry, uh gifted, anointed, singing, praising, warshiping,

721
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 2: and none of that fixed that pain. And I think

722
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 2: sometimes people in the church oversimplified the cure to that

723
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 2: kind of pain. You know, just praise the Lord, praise

724
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 2: your way out of it. Just you just pray. It's

725
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 2: not like that. No, it's not like that. And there

726
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 2: is a difference between what you do in your spirit

727
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 2: and what you feel in your mind. They're two different things.

728
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 2: What goes on in the spirit, my spirit is regenerated,

729
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:45,760
Speaker 2: My mind is being transformed. And that formation of that mind,

730
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 2: that that that potter fooling with that clay. The indentations

731
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 2: are often made through painful places. It's not the it's

732
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 2: not the highlights and the trophies that makes the dent

733
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 2: of the clay. It's it's the weeping and the way

734
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 2: in the middle of the night that causes the indentations

735
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 2: to make the clay begin to become a vessel that

736
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 2: is fit for the master's use. So when you looked

737
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 2: at that and then all of a sudden your father

738
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 2: got sick, you had a decision to make. We had

739
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 2: had lots of conversations about him. I didn't know him personally,

740
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 2: but being a father and being his age, I could

741
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 2: understand or help you to understand what it was like

742
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 2: for him at that age. Not justifying or condoning what

743
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,720
Speaker 2: he did, but understanding what he did. I think healing

744
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 2: begins with understanding when you can understand, when you can

745
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 2: empathize and not just criticize. You can criticize the person's

746
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 2: actions and still empathize with the pain that led them

747
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 2: to the action.

748
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: You told me.

749
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 2: You told me, he said your father was your age

750
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 2: when he had you. Yeah, he said, what you're going

751
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 2: through right now? And uh, when I when I realized

752
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 2: all the stuff I was going through that I hadn't

753
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 2: even said to anybody, it gave me, you know, grace,

754
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: And I wanted to go sit with him, and you

755
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 2: let me. Yeah, you know, And when I went to

756
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,919
Speaker 2: sit with him, I told you to stay as long

757
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 2: as you needed to stay and not worry about it.

758
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

759
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 2: I knew that he was dying, but you were healing. Yeah,

760
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 2: And you went down there to stay with him till

761
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 2: he died, till he died and called me almost every

762
00:45:56,120 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 2: night telling me the upset downs and the disasters here. Yeah,

763
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 2: and then until you have set with somebody who was dying,

764
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 2: and set with somebody that you loved but you never

765
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 2: got to love, and you're only getting to love them

766
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 2: at the end, at the end. Yeah, it's a very

767
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:21,959
Speaker 2: painful thing.

768
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: And it unlocked so many things that I didn't know,

769
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:34,399
Speaker 1: and things I didn't know about myself I found out

770
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: through her. I was like looking in the mirror. Yeah,

771
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: I was looking at my old self, and he was

772
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: looking at his younger self. And I held his hand,

773
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:50,720
Speaker 1: I fed him soup, fed him fish, washed his face,

774
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: cut his hair, shaved it, laugh, listened at him trying

775
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 1: to sing because his voice was deteriorating. And I just

776
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: like all of the stuff that I don't matter, yeah

777
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: matter anymore, ain't goer, didn't matter anymore, who's right, who's wrong,

778
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: doesn't matter anymore. I wanted to spend those moments with

779
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 1: him I held his hand. He told me he was

780
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,720
Speaker 1: proud of me. He told me he loved me. And uh,

781
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: my dad. Before that he had fell out of the

782
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 1: bed and busted his head and so they needed to

783
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: do surgery to close they womb. And my father was

784
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: dealing with these I'm just gonna say it, these enter

785
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 1: demons and goes back to what you were saying. You

786
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: don't know what he was going through. You have no idea.

787
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: So my father, who's in the church, he got in crazy.

788
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: He's a killer preacher. When the nurses grabbed my father

789
00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: like two or three in the morning and take him

790
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: a proper getting prepare surgery, he starts screaming and all.

791
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 1: And they said, mister, tell me it's okay. You said no, no, no,

792
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: Here's what he says. I'm going to hell. No. And

793
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 1: I jumped up. I said, Daddy, he's not going to

794
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,800
Speaker 1: head with sprops. He says, I am. I'm going to

795
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: have big old tears coming down his ass.

796
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 2: I didn't do you right.

797
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: I didn't do your mama right, I didn't do your

798
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: brother's right.

799
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:28,439
Speaker 2: I'm going to hell.

800
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 1: Did a lot of people wrong, son. I mean, he's screaming,

801
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 1: they're taking him down the hallway to taking him into

802
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: the elevator, and he's saying no, in his mind, he's

803
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: on his way to hell. You can see it, screaming

804
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: so ext The nurses said, well, you get me a

805
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:49,240
Speaker 1: second rate my father, and they said, sure, that isn't daddy.

806
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: He said what I said, do you believe Jesus Christ

807
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 1: definitely her sense. He looked at me and he said, yeah.

808
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 1: Do you believe had the same power that brought him

809
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 1: back from the grave, of the same power savior? He

810
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: said yeah. I said that. You say you're not more

811
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: than hell, You're fine. I could not believe. At that

812
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: moment calmed my father. Now, who was a hard core

813
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: Pentecostal Church of God in Christ talking, That moment changed me.

814
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: All of the religious dog mall all of the talk.

815
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: I didn't care about it no more because I watched

816
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: a grown man who I watched there was a marine

817
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 1: break and snap because he thought he hadn't done enough

818
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: to get to heaven. So it Bishop had changed everything.

819
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: This was a moment, not preacher the preacher. This was

820
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 1: a son with his father right right, right right, So

821
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: everything changed. I don't see anything to say, you.

822
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 2: Who was caring guilt about your own son. Got to

823
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 2: see the guilt your father was caring about me. Yeah. Yeah,

824
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 2: And you would call me every night and tell me

825
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 2: what happened.

826
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 1: Yes.

827
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 2: And I was trying to walk you through beginning to

828
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:26,760
Speaker 2: understand that if you don't deal with your own grief

829
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 2: and your own guilt, this is where you're going to

830
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 2: end up. Yeah. You got a preview of a coming attraction. Yes, okay.

831
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 2: And you said something a minute ago that I got

832
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 2: to go back to because it is so strong and

833
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 2: it's so powerful. You said it didn't matter anymore who

834
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 2: was right and who was wrong, because he was dying.

835
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 2: There are people listening at me right now who haven't

836
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 2: spoken to their son for years, having spoken to their wife,

837
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 2: having spoken to their mother, because they feel like they're

838
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 2: right and the other person is wrong. They don't understand

839
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 2: that some things are not about right or wrong. It's

840
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 2: about being old.

841
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 1: Wow.

842
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 2: See see you see what I'm saying right there? See

843
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 2: we're so in love with right that we can't get well.

844
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 1: Wow.

845
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 2: And I wanted to go back and I wanted to

846
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 2: snatch it and I want to dwell on that because

847
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 2: we will split, we will move, we will journey somewhere else,

848
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 2: all because we feel like we are right, and we

849
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 2: might be right. We may not be right. It may

850
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 2: be just our perspective of what right is. And you're

851
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 2: never going to get whole when you're in love with

852
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 2: your perspective. Your perspective is only one perspective of a

853
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:49,879
Speaker 2: much bigger story that is multigenerational. Your father didn't get

854
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: that way by himself. Things happened to him that brought

855
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 2: him to the point that he became who he was.

856
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 2: And for the first time you got to see that

857
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 2: you were on the same road and you were trying

858
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 2: to heal him and at the same time it was

859
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 2: healing you, Which brings us back to what I said

860
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: before that you'll never be a great minister until you

861
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 2: see yourself and the person you're ministering too. Yes, sir,

862
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:21,240
Speaker 2: that's where it begins. Yes, that's where the drive begins.

863
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 2: That's where the thirst and the thrust of caring or mentoring.

864
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 2: Forget preaching, just mentoring somebody. You can't mentor somebody unless

865
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: you see a little bit of yourself in them. And

866
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 2: I think this critical right and wrong thing that we

867
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 2: have gone. You weren't there for me you didn't come

868
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 2: to the ballet, you didn't come to the play. You

869
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 2: never supported me. You like my sister better than me.

870
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 2: In the grips, the cold grip of death as it

871
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 2: begins to seize the neck of the person you love,

872
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 2: all of the things you said to yourself seeing foolish,

873
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,399
Speaker 2: it was foolish.

874
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: I got to enjoy two weeks. If I had have

875
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:09,800
Speaker 1: just let go of my pride, I could.

876
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:14,240
Speaker 2: Have enjoyed for a lifetime. Wow.

877
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 1: Two weeks. I got to be a son. Two weeks.

878
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: I got to be the son I always wanted to be.

879
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: But that's my fault because I could have shut it

880
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 1: down and just went on, but I didn't.

881
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 2: I thought it was the most courageous thing I've ever

882
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 2: seen you do in my life.

883
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:36,280
Speaker 1: Wow.

884
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 2: I thought it was the most courageous thing I've ever

885
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 2: seen you do in my life. And I've seen you

886
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 2: do some courageous stuff, But knowing how you felt and

887
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 2: going down there and cleaning him up like you were

888
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:59,239
Speaker 2: a nurse, you said, and feeding him and loving him,

889
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 2: that's the most courageous thing I have ever seen you do.

890
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 2: And I related to it because I took care of

891
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 2: my father who had kidney failure and climbed up in

892
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 2: the bed and shaved him, yes, sir, and fed him,

893
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 2: and we had a kidney machine in our house. You see.

894
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 2: You see then, Yeah, they can't. We can't. We can't,

895
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 2: we can't. And some things you can't preach out of

896
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,959
Speaker 2: a person. Some things you can't lay hands on a person.

897
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 2: Sometimes you can't put him out the house and get

898
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 2: it out of them. You have to go through life

899
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:38,280
Speaker 2: and struggles and pain and tears and struggles and becomes something,

900
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:42,800
Speaker 2: something better, A better part of yourself is born.

901
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,839
Speaker 1: You know what's so amazing that number one I get

902
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,319
Speaker 1: to come here and see you. Yeah, but number two

903
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: he's buried behind the church. Yeah, they get to go

904
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: stand on the stone. They get to go talk to

905
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 1: the stone. I know he's I know his spirit is not.

906
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 1: They get to go see him, get to go stand

907
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: on the stone talking to him. I can't wait. Yeah,

908
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: I can't wait. I've seen him more than death multiple

909
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 1: times that way because I lived here, you know. And Yeah,

910
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 1: would always go after church, they go stand on the

911
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:21,800
Speaker 1: stone at the service.

912
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 2: You told me that. That surprised me. Every Sunday after

913
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 2: service he would go down to where his father was buried.

914
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 2: The Veterans Cemetery is right next door. His father's a veteran.

915
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 2: Stand on the stone, and stand on the stone and

916
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 2: talk to his father while the blood yet runs warm

917
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:46,839
Speaker 2: in the veins of the people you love. Be courageous

918
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 2: while they can hear you, while you can speak. Don't

919
00:55:53,760 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 2: be forced into forcing a lifetime into two weeks. This

920
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 2: is an opportunity forget who's right or wrong, who heard,

921
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 2: who betrayed?

922
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 1: Who?

923
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 2: Be little and fix it while they can hear you.

924
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 2: You got to do some of that. You you, you,

925
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 2: you face that. That's that's more courageous than facing a

926
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 2: guy with the gun. You were facing yourself when you

927
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:30,800
Speaker 2: faced him, sir, Yeah, and that is courage.

928
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what's beautiful that I had you. So

929
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: those of you that are listening to Bishop as he's

930
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 1: coaching you, it's gonna be important that you get the

931
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: language so that when you get there you have something

932
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:42,359
Speaker 1: to say.

933
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you taught me what to say. Yeah, thank you

934
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 2: so much for that. It was meant to be yes, sir.

935
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 1: I didn't know it was gonna be one of these saisons.

936
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 2: I thought we were gonna be talking to making millions

937
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:08,320
Speaker 2: and yeah, yeah, this clear is the way to anything

938
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 2: else that will happen in your life. This clears the way.

939
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 2: Because if you make millions and you become successful, and

940
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 2: you're on the New York Times Bestsellers list and you

941
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 2: you're on the screen with Denzel Washington and all of

942
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, and you're still sick inside, nothing

943
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 2: you can buy with your wallet will stop you from

944
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 2: wanting to take your own life. That's the truth, sir.

945
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 2: Money is nothing compared to peace. Nothing nothing compared to peace.

946
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:47,960
Speaker 2: Oh peace, It's priceless, sir. You can't get it with

947
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 2: an American Express Black card. You cannot pay for peace.

948
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 2: And if you have peace, whether you got a car

949
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:57,439
Speaker 2: or not, whether you've got a house or not, whether

950
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 2: you got friends or finally, if you have peace, you

951
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 2: are rich. Yes, sir, I heard Warn Buffett say something

952
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 2: that stuck with me. He said, if you get ready

953
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 2: to die and you don't look around your bed and

954
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 2: see somebody who loves you, no matter how much your

955
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 2: net worth is, you are a poor man.

956
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: Sir.

957
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 2: I paraphrased it, but I came pretty close. Yeah, yeah,

958
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 2: you are a poor man. Your father died rich because

959
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 2: you were there right there. Yes, that yeah, And even

960
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 2: though it brings tears, you should be proud of yourself, sir.

961
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 2: You should be proud of yourself because you did not

962
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 2: let him leave this world screaming with guilt. And you

963
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 2: earn the right to be forgiven, Yes, sir, because you

964
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 2: forgave blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.

965
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 2: And there's no classes in school about mercy. People hardly

966
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 2: ever talk about it, or read about it, or write

967
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 2: about it or preach about it. People very seldom deal

968
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 2: with mercy because mercy puts you in a vulnerable place

969
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 2: where you don't get to get even, you don't get

970
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 2: to settle the score. Mercy requires that you be big

971
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 2: enough to love somebody over unsettled junk. But it also

972
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 2: gives you the gift that if you could forgive somebody,

973
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 2: then you can conceive that it is possible that you

974
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 2: can be forgiven.

975
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 1: Sir.

976
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 2: That's what it's all about, yes, sir, that's what it's

977
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 2: all about. Chapter number five, gaining a father. So we're

978
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 2: sitting here having this conversation, and you got to spend

979
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 2: and are going to spend some time with your father

980
00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:00,080
Speaker 2: and went to his grave and talked to me on

981
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 2: the phone all while he was sick and got to

982
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 2: take care of him, and then got a bonus father. Yeah,

983
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 2: I don't call you a bonus father. Father.

984
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 1: So but I have you, and this has been different

985
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 1: because now I have, of course you. You you're businessman,

986
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 1: your husband, your pastor, you're you're you are excellent in

987
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 1: every field that that that I'm chasing, and you have

988
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 1: set the pattern. I was talking to your team paracter

989
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 1: coming in because I know how you think, and so

990
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: I say, what is Bishop wanna talk about? And he says, well,

991
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 1: I said, well, I've been listening to the news because

992
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 1: I know him. He only listens to the news, he

993
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 1: only watches. I said, so we may talk about the war,

994
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 1: we may talk about what's going on with the government

995
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 1: being shut down. I said, he's going to ask me

996
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 1: what book am I reading. He's wanting to know what

997
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 1: I'm consuming. I said, someone to make sure I got

998
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: a good quote from that, I said, all of my ways,

999
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: my Molde is a run day of thinking. My cognitive

1000
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 1: approach to everything has been a carbon copy of the

1001
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 1: pattern that he's laid out, not just for me, but

1002
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: for my brothers. Are the sons of the church. You've

1003
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 1: showed us how to approach business, how to approach fathering,

1004
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 1: how to approach the moment, how to approach the preaching moment,

1005
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 1: how to walk in the room and be friends, how

1006
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 1: to walk in the room and be quiet. Yes, what

1007
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: to wear in the room. Everything that I have learned,

1008
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 1: I learned from you. So you're not a bonus you period,

1009
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: hands down. I think about the time that I tell

1010
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: you what you.

1011
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 2: Wear that for.

1012
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 1: Oh God, I went to a business meeting with you.

1013
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 1: It was downtown Dallas and I had a black suit

1014
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 1: on and you looked at me. He said, you don't

1015
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: wear a black suit to a business meeting. This is

1016
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 1: not church. I said, well, what am I supposed to wear?

1017
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 1: And you said, put on a great white shirt and

1018
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 1: a power tie. All blue pinstripes. That's exact shirt, blue tie,

1019
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: a red tie, that's exactly a power tie. Brown shoes

1020
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 1: means business. Yeah, I said, oh, no, tie, have the

1021
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 1: top putting open. I learned so much from you, the

1022
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 1: simple little things. Yeah, yeah, simple little things that have

1023
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 1: changed my life completely.

1024
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 2: I told my grandson, uh and uh he was seraohs baby,

1025
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 2: he's not grown. Yes, sir, and I said, k I said,

1026
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 2: can you tie tie? And he said no, I don't

1027
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 2: know how to tie tie. I said, you're gonna learn today, Yes, sir,

1028
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 2: little things that people wouldn't think to teach a boy

1029
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 2: become a reminder of him not having a father in

1030
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 2: his life. Yes, sir. So whether it's riding a bicycle

1031
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 2: or or go and fishing, or tie and a tie,

1032
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 2: or tie and a bow tie, they're these little telltale

1033
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 2: signs that you didn't get that, and it becomes shame.

1034
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 2: So I stood there in the mirror with him and

1035
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 2: tied the tie till he got worried. Now every time

1036
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 2: he puts on a tie, he sends me a picture

1037
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 2: of it. Yeah. Yeah, you have to You have to care.

1038
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 1: You have to care.

1039
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 2: Chapter number six, blended family. Let's talk about this for

1040
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 2: a moment. You got a blended family. It's not Ozzy

1041
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 2: and Harriet and three kids and one and a half

1042
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:49,479
Speaker 2: cards in the garage. It's a blended family for all

1043
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 2: of us. Very few people have traditional families anymore. Okay,

1044
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 2: they're on their second marriage or the third marriage, that

1045
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 2: might not be married at all. How do you take

1046
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 2: somebody who was raised by somebody else and put them

1047
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 2: in the room with somebody who was raised by you,

1048
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 2: and put them in the room with somebody who was

1049
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 2: fathered by somebody else, and blend them all together and

1050
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 2: make a family. You don't make a family in the beginning, okay.

1051
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 2: You become roommates, okay, and you have to have a conversation.

1052
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 2: And it takes two people in the room, whether their parents' guardians, cousins,

1053
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 2: whatever they are, that set this standard for what is

1054
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 2: going to be. It's not going to happen overnight, but

1055
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 2: it has to be said. N Tasha told her children

1056
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 2: at that time they were not my children. She said,

1057
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 2: this is what you're gonna call them. You don't have

1058
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 2: to call them dad. You're gonna call them this.

1059
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 1: I am not going to be the one that does

1060
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 1: this and this and this. He is. She forced them

1061
01:04:56,200 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 1: to come to me, and so my kids they didn't

1062
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 1: already live with me. They were already grown, so they

1063
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 1: had it a little bit easier. But they would come

1064
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 1: into town. And so when they came with me, I

1065
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 1: just simply told mine, don't disrespect her. You don't have

1066
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: to call them all, but don't disrespect her. You want

1067
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 1: to call them miss Tubman. She's fine with that, but

1068
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 1: do not call them by her first name. Well, you

1069
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 1: know what, the boys said, Hey, mom, what's up? Straight up?

1070
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 1: So there was no issues with the boys. The girls

1071
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 1: was a problem, and the girls were more protective over her,

1072
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 1: trying to make sure I wasn't trying to come in

1073
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:39,400
Speaker 1: because Tasha had had some previous relationships that went up

1074
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 1: to marriage and then it didn't happen. So they were

1075
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 1: more like watch dogs lioness versus being these little girls

1076
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 1: that was looking to be happy to have this new

1077
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 1: father that came in their lives. Her son, he was

1078
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 1: very very young. He was like a baby, so he

1079
01:05:57,360 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 1: was a mother's boy, so she wasn't really a biggest

1080
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 1: fights came from her, from her protecting him from allowing

1081
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:08,760
Speaker 1: me to father him because she was so protective. So

1082
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 1: if anything that I said that sounded like it was

1083
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 1: too much, she would back off. So you can see

1084
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 1: the tension spots him back away. The girls get after him.

1085
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 1: But the girls at the same time, I protected my mama,

1086
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 1: my boys. They was cool, like, what's going on now?

1087
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: We had a girl together, Okay, there was the only

1088
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 1: child we had together. She was the easiest because we

1089
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 1: both were her biological parents. She brought everybody together because

1090
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 1: they all became her big She was there with her

1091
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 1: baby sister, so the baby girl became the drawing card

1092
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 1: our relationship, how we treated each other. It was very

1093
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 1: important that I showed the girls that I wasn't trying

1094
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 1: to do anything to their mother. The boys, again were very,

1095
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:54,280
Speaker 1: very easy, but in the beginning they were all roommates.

1096
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 1: And in the end, I say, in the end, in

1097
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:00,919
Speaker 1: the progress of time, as we began to go through

1098
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:05,920
Speaker 1: fights and fits and busses, we became one.

1099
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 2: Thank you for your honesty, Because there are a lot

1100
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 2: of people who are going into a next chapter and

1101
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:15,240
Speaker 2: they expect for it to be smooth sailing, whether it's

1102
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 2: a new job or a new spouse, or somebody's getting

1103
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 2: ready to marry you. And you've got this idealistic, romantic,

1104
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:28,240
Speaker 2: picturesque situation, and then you walk into this inferno, you know,

1105
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 2: and you think, why did I do this? But I

1106
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:35,160
Speaker 2: hear you saying that just because it's complicated doesn't mean

1107
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 2: it can't work.

1108
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 1: I think the complication is what makes it beautiful.

1109
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 2: Okay.

1110
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 1: The complication is where the relationship was born. In the beginning,

1111
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:45,920
Speaker 1: it's just a story. We came together, we got married,

1112
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 1: and we both have children that we came together. That's

1113
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 1: a story. It's the fire that the kids started realizing,

1114
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 1: he's not gonna leave mama. He's not gonna walk away.

1115
01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 1: Mama not gonna leave him. He actually hear from me

1116
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:03,040
Speaker 1: when her daughters they're my daughters. Now they have my

1117
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 1: last name. They want to track practice. I was sitting

1118
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:10,040
Speaker 1: up in them stands. Went to state championship, I was

1119
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:11,120
Speaker 1: sitting up in them stands.

1120
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 2: I will not leave you.

1121
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:16,880
Speaker 1: I was right there. Now here's the here's here's the

1122
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 1: side piece. Bishop. I had two kids that live here.

1123
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 1: So my personal fire was I'm not in the stands

1124
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 1: every weekend for him, but I'm in the stands up here.

1125
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,160
Speaker 1: So I have my own fire while I'm trying to

1126
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:36,200
Speaker 1: put out this fire. So it's it's never going to

1127
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 1: be just everybody. Yeah, it's the complexity that's what builds

1128
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 1: the relationship. And then when they get older, they start

1129
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:47,720
Speaker 1: understanding it takes time. It takes time. It takes time.

1130
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 1: It takes time.

1131
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:51,680
Speaker 2: Even if it's not a blended family, the truth of

1132
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:56,560
Speaker 2: the matter is becoming a unit that makes up unconditional

1133
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 2: love that we're gonna take together, come out or high water.

1134
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 2: It's not easy. That's why marriages are failing. Families are

1135
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:09,559
Speaker 2: failing because we advertised on movies something that people bought

1136
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:11,840
Speaker 2: and then they took it home and found out it

1137
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:15,680
Speaker 2: didn't work like it did on TV. Right, Okay, it

1138
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:18,400
Speaker 2: didn't work like it did on TV. In fact, you

1139
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 2: mentioned Tasha when you got ready to come down here,

1140
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 2: she didn't want to come.

1141
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 1: She wanted to come. It's what happened. When we got here.

1142
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:30,320
Speaker 1: My life exploded. Her life was still in Oklahoma, okay,

1143
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 1: And I didn't recognize. You told me something, and I

1144
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 1: didn't recognize it. You told me I ripped her away

1145
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 1: from her world. And even though she said, yes, I'm going,

1146
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:45,439
Speaker 1: the truth of the matter is her comfortability was there,

1147
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:51,599
Speaker 1: her friends were there, her ecosystem was there. We were

1148
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 1: the senior pastors there. Yes, here, we had stepped into

1149
01:09:57,040 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 1: a five hundred member staff with twenty pastors. What a

1150
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:04,080
Speaker 1: senior passagor that as big as the world. So it's

1151
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:10,400
Speaker 1: a completely different or chart, a completely different level of ministry,

1152
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 1: a completely different level of how things work. And she

1153
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:19,840
Speaker 1: got lost in this. I didn't because I knew what

1154
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 1: I was coming into, but I didn't think about that

1155
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:25,040
Speaker 1: when I made the movie right. Right.

1156
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:32,479
Speaker 2: It's funny because sometimes in marriage, you have to endure

1157
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:37,679
Speaker 2: another person's decision yes, for them to get healed enough

1158
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 2: to be the person that you really wanted them to

1159
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 2: be all the time, Yes, sir, and you had unfinished business.

1160
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 2: And the reason you were staring at me at the

1161
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 2: dinner table is that some kind of way you knew

1162
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:55,519
Speaker 2: that I could finish. Yes, that business. Absolutely. If you're

1163
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:59,639
Speaker 2: getting ready to go to your next chapter, it may

1164
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:02,400
Speaker 2: not be easy. It may be better, it may be bigger,

1165
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 2: it may be more money. It may be entrepreneurship. It

1166
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 2: may be a move across the country, it may be

1167
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:12,479
Speaker 2: moving into another country. But it may not be the

1168
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:17,200
Speaker 2: way you dreamed it. But just because it's tough doesn't

1169
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:21,559
Speaker 2: mean it doesn't work. It'll work if you work in

1170
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:26,439
Speaker 2: and if you learn how to work that thing, it

1171
01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:31,519
Speaker 2: will pay you back in spades because now you moved

1172
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 2: into another dimension through our relationship. You ended up doing movies,

1173
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:38,479
Speaker 2: you're doing books.

1174
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 1: You've got three businesses. Three businesses, yeah, and we're doing

1175
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 1: seven figures, you know what I mean. So it's crazy

1176
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:50,160
Speaker 1: to know you have a multimillion dollar business.

1177
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:58,400
Speaker 2: But I learned it being a student, right, because that's wonderful.

1178
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 2: That's wonderful. Chapter number seven jail. So you had this

1179
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 2: incident that landed you in jail. Altercation was a teacher

1180
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:13,160
Speaker 2: tell us about that.

1181
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 1: I was in class. I had a reputation for cursing,

1182
01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:24,879
Speaker 1: and I was cursing in the classroom on a regular basis.

1183
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:30,400
Speaker 1: This particular day, I didn't curse, and the teacher, here's

1184
01:12:30,479 --> 01:12:33,640
Speaker 1: this curse word, and she says, Joe, get out of

1185
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:37,320
Speaker 1: my class I said, wow, what did I do? She says,

1186
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:41,800
Speaker 1: I told you stop cursing in my classroom because I

1187
01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:44,400
Speaker 1: didn't curse. She said, who is it? And I said

1188
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 1: it was this so and so, so and so I cursed.

1189
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:51,760
Speaker 1: She said, oh my god, I want to say get out.

1190
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:54,040
Speaker 1: So I get out. I go to the office. When

1191
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 1: I get to the office, we had principles. By the

1192
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:01,439
Speaker 1: year nineteen eleven twelve, our principal wasn't there. So the

1193
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:04,160
Speaker 1: ninth grade principal was there, who happened to be my aunt.

1194
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:08,360
Speaker 1: And she says, Joel, just go home, get out of here.

1195
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 1: Your principal's not here. Go home. I said, please talk

1196
01:13:13,080 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 1: to him for me, because the Texas really is was

1197
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:16,719
Speaker 1: that weekend and I was going to run one hundred

1198
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:19,400
Speaker 1: meters in or two hundred meters and in our school,

1199
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:22,040
Speaker 1: if you got in trouble, you couldn't do anything for

1200
01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 1: sports that weekend. So I said, I didn't cons it

1201
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 1: was this other guy. She said, go home. So I'm

1202
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:30,360
Speaker 1: walking down the hallway on my way out to go home.

1203
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:34,719
Speaker 1: A teacher comes out who happens to be the teacher

1204
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:40,120
Speaker 1: next door to my room. He looks at me and says,

1205
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:45,960
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that we get like you out of

1206
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:46,559
Speaker 1: our school.

1207
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:47,719
Speaker 2: Wow.

1208
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:50,680
Speaker 1: And I looked at him and I said, what did

1209
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:55,000
Speaker 1: you say you're talking to He walks up to me,

1210
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:58,920
Speaker 1: puts his finger in my day. I said, I'm so

1211
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:05,040
Speaker 1: glad and get black qu out of a school. And

1212
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:07,920
Speaker 1: at that moment all that raised that we was talking about.

1213
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 1: I pushed him up against the locker. I thrust kicked him,

1214
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:14,040
Speaker 1: which is a kick boom like this, kicked him in

1215
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:16,720
Speaker 1: the chest. Kicked him in the chest. He kind of

1216
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:19,680
Speaker 1: falls down. They kicked him into the locker, so he

1217
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 1: kind of goes down the locker and then I stumped

1218
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:25,519
Speaker 1: him probably like four times. Boom boom, boom boom. He

1219
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:29,000
Speaker 1: had a heart attack. Right, he didn't die, but he

1220
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 1: had Thank god he did that. I stomped him. By

1221
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 1: the time people heard it, the bell was ringing, so

1222
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:39,680
Speaker 1: everybody was in the hallway. Teacher saw it, and we

1223
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 1: had cops on campus. So the cops were running. My

1224
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 1: aunt's running. They grabbed me, boom, take me into the

1225
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:53,160
Speaker 1: little room and take me to jail. And you know

1226
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:56,080
Speaker 1: you can't beat up a cop. That's against the law,

1227
01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:57,759
Speaker 1: I mean, not a coper. Teacher.

1228
01:14:58,720 --> 01:14:59,799
Speaker 2: He didn't press charges.

1229
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:05,360
Speaker 1: Uh, he admitted that he had done wrong, but I

1230
01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:08,200
Speaker 1: took it to a whole other level. So they took

1231
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:11,840
Speaker 1: me to jail. I didn't do time, as if like

1232
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:15,400
Speaker 1: a year or nothing like that. My aunt was close

1233
01:15:15,479 --> 01:15:18,720
Speaker 1: friends with the correctional officer and they left me in there.

1234
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 1: They left She said, leave him in there so he

1235
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:23,800
Speaker 1: can get an understanding of the world he does not

1236
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:26,400
Speaker 1: want to end up in. And I was in that

1237
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:32,120
Speaker 1: correctional facility. They closed them doors bah, and later on

1238
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:37,560
Speaker 1: them lights turned out. Yeah, I said, I know, I

1239
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:38,439
Speaker 1: don't want this life.

1240
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:41,960
Speaker 2: And the food they brought us the next day was

1241
01:15:42,040 --> 01:15:48,600
Speaker 2: some vegetable soup that had no taste. Yeah, black coffee

1242
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 2: and a big old piece of corn bread, and it

1243
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:52,720
Speaker 2: was hard as a rock.

1244
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:56,639
Speaker 1: And she left me there. Eventually I ended up getting

1245
01:15:56,680 --> 01:16:01,200
Speaker 1: out the next day. But that changed my life, now

1246
01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:05,360
Speaker 1: for positive change, the for negative, because you would have

1247
01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:07,719
Speaker 1: thought it would have scared me straight, but it didn't.

1248
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:10,960
Speaker 1: I lost that scholarship, I didn't get to go to

1249
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:16,719
Speaker 1: the razor Backs, and then my life just started trailing

1250
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:21,000
Speaker 1: down a crazy path where I started making decisions that

1251
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:23,879
Speaker 1: just took me away from who I was, my character,

1252
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:28,479
Speaker 1: my family, and the black sheep really started growing hair.

1253
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:33,840
Speaker 2: Do you think had you got to go to the

1254
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:35,640
Speaker 2: razor Backs, do you think your whole life would have

1255
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:37,160
Speaker 2: turned out differently? Definitely.

1256
01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:40,800
Speaker 1: And I don't know how I would have handled success

1257
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:44,360
Speaker 1: at that level. Okay, I don't know if I would

1258
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:47,360
Speaker 1: have looked back and be honest. Two things, I wish

1259
01:16:47,439 --> 01:16:51,639
Speaker 1: I could have exercised my talent at that level. Two

1260
01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:57,679
Speaker 1: with the way my character was, knowing what had happened

1261
01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 1: up to me to that point, without any significant impact

1262
01:17:00,479 --> 01:17:04,080
Speaker 1: and change from a positive influence, I probably would have

1263
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:07,439
Speaker 1: ended up in jail. I probably would have ended up drinking,

1264
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:09,760
Speaker 1: crazy and smoking and ended up in the police because

1265
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:12,080
Speaker 1: I didn't have any discipline. Yeah, but I had skill.

1266
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:18,040
Speaker 2: Money just makes you more of what you already were, yes, sir, Yeah,

1267
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:23,799
Speaker 2: that's very very true. Yeah, Chapter number eight called for help.

1268
01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:28,479
Speaker 2: Tell me about the time you took the pills and

1269
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:30,720
Speaker 2: survived it and was sorry that you did.

1270
01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:42,000
Speaker 1: I really thought at that moment I needed I needed

1271
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:45,800
Speaker 1: love from the people that were supposed to be giving

1272
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:47,040
Speaker 1: me the love at the time. I'm trying to go

1273
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:50,679
Speaker 1: back into my mindset. It was very unhealthy at that time.

1274
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:56,559
Speaker 1: But at that time I felt as if Mama she

1275
01:17:56,680 --> 01:17:59,000
Speaker 1: never really showed love. Now, my mom was a single

1276
01:17:59,040 --> 01:18:02,760
Speaker 1: parent and old. Now that I'm older, I understand she

1277
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 1: was working the behind or trying to take care of us,

1278
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:09,439
Speaker 1: but she just she never was like, wow, you know,

1279
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:11,519
Speaker 1: I love you. She just wasn't that kind of person,

1280
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:15,519
Speaker 1: you know. And I had gotten into trouble a lot,

1281
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:17,800
Speaker 1: but I just kind of fell into this spots work.

1282
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 2: Man.

1283
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:21,800
Speaker 1: I wish I could feel that from my mom, feel

1284
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:25,559
Speaker 1: it from my father, feel it from my siblings because

1285
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:27,680
Speaker 1: we were kind of raised with it. Well, you know,

1286
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 1: I love you gone. That was just that was it.

1287
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:35,680
Speaker 1: That was the sum total of the love and so

1288
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:38,960
Speaker 1: much had gone wrong for me. I didn't want to

1289
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 1: kill myself. I don't think. I don't think I'm being

1290
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:48,400
Speaker 1: honest with you. I've told myself Bishop and I didn't

1291
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:51,400
Speaker 1: want to die. But when I go back and I

1292
01:18:51,479 --> 01:18:53,840
Speaker 1: look at it and I recount the stories, I don't know.

1293
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:56,320
Speaker 1: You know, you can tell the stories, So m yeah,

1294
01:18:57,280 --> 01:19:00,960
Speaker 1: I don't know. But I took the whole bottle, I believes,

1295
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 1: and I do remember the feeling, and the only way

1296
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:09,760
Speaker 1: I can demonstrate the feeling is kind of like that, Yeah,

1297
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:17,360
Speaker 1: that's what I felt. Yeah, it just was like And

1298
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:20,439
Speaker 1: the next thing, I ain't know, my mom's shaking me.

1299
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:26,439
Speaker 1: And then when I get to this facility, I guess

1300
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:30,040
Speaker 1: it's the emergency room. At that time, they tell me, hey,

1301
01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:33,720
Speaker 1: they're putting this taking this oxygen off, and telling me

1302
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:35,559
Speaker 1: that they're going to have to pump my stomach from

1303
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:39,519
Speaker 1: the charcoal. It was the most grossest thing I've ever

1304
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:42,479
Speaker 1: experienced in my life. And popping all this charcoal into

1305
01:19:42,479 --> 01:19:48,400
Speaker 1: your body. When that experience is over or while it's happening,

1306
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:55,599
Speaker 1: my brother, my sister, my grandmother, I think, but my

1307
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:59,519
Speaker 1: mama's there, And the first thing they tell me, I

1308
01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:08,160
Speaker 1: love you. I just broked out crime. I was waiting

1309
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:12,160
Speaker 1: to hear that I love you. And I think that's

1310
01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:14,240
Speaker 1: why I told myself the story that I didn't want

1311
01:20:14,280 --> 01:20:19,360
Speaker 1: to die, but maybe I did. Maybe I didn't want

1312
01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:25,200
Speaker 1: to die. They told me that I was going to

1313
01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:32,040
Speaker 1: have to go to this clinic. My mom couldn't sign

1314
01:20:32,080 --> 01:20:35,760
Speaker 1: me in, but I would have to do it, and

1315
01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 1: they thought it was the best thing. And my mom says,

1316
01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:41,200
Speaker 1: I think you should do it like it impatience. So

1317
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:46,000
Speaker 1: I went there for seven days. I didn't say anything

1318
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:50,720
Speaker 1: for six days. Six days I was just in the room.

1319
01:20:50,920 --> 01:20:55,840
Speaker 1: But the things I saw I couldn't believe. I saw

1320
01:20:55,880 --> 01:21:00,000
Speaker 1: people trying to hang themselves, cut the wrists, taking items

1321
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:04,679
Speaker 1: to take themselves out. And it was in that facility

1322
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:08,040
Speaker 1: when I realized I have people that do love me.

1323
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 1: These people were alone, had nobody, and I would listen

1324
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:16,240
Speaker 1: to the stories because we would go from counseling session

1325
01:21:16,240 --> 01:21:20,439
Speaker 1: to counseling session, to counseling session, go to lunch, counseling session,

1326
01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:22,880
Speaker 1: counseling session, then in the evening you go back to

1327
01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:25,479
Speaker 1: your room. I remember waking up one night to guys

1328
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:29,519
Speaker 1: in my room. He was hanging himself sheets, and he

1329
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:34,799
Speaker 1: was angry with me because I saved him, like super

1330
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:38,679
Speaker 1: angry with me that next day because of that experience.

1331
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:44,599
Speaker 1: At night, I think the third session, the lady says,

1332
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:50,240
Speaker 1: are you gonna talk? And I said yeah, And I

1333
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:54,920
Speaker 1: talked and I talked and I talked and I talked.

1334
01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:58,280
Speaker 1: I talked from one session to the next session, from

1335
01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:00,960
Speaker 1: the next session to the next session. And it was

1336
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:04,640
Speaker 1: so funny because one of the guys in the room says, God,

1337
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:12,840
Speaker 1: damn it, when you shut up, I'll never forget it.

1338
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:15,720
Speaker 1: And it was at that moment I said, man, it's

1339
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:20,240
Speaker 1: okay to talk because I would never talk. So I

1340
01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:25,479
Speaker 1: left out of that place thinking that, you know, I

1341
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:27,839
Speaker 1: really didn't want to kill myself. That's what the statement

1342
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:30,400
Speaker 1: came from. I didn't want to kill myself because of

1343
01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:35,680
Speaker 1: all the stories that I had absorbed from all of

1344
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:38,439
Speaker 1: the people that were inside the facility with me. I'll

1345
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:40,120
Speaker 1: never forget it. I think it's something that helped changed

1346
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:42,200
Speaker 1: my life. I still ended up doing a lot of

1347
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:44,800
Speaker 1: stupid things, but it was a moment in time that

1348
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:47,240
Speaker 1: I think I needed from where I.

1349
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:52,479
Speaker 2: Was, you have had the most amazing journey. I don't

1350
01:22:52,520 --> 01:22:57,120
Speaker 2: know about that yeah, is still you got miles to go.

1351
01:22:58,280 --> 01:23:00,800
Speaker 2: You know, you got miles to go. But you had

1352
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:07,439
Speaker 2: some really tough lessons, but they worked, yes, Sir, to

1353
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:11,080
Speaker 2: this point, and they served you well. I listened at

1354
01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:16,920
Speaker 2: how you talk about your wife, Oh understanding now what

1355
01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:19,840
Speaker 2: why she didn't want to come here, why she didn't

1356
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:24,400
Speaker 2: want to come to dallas U. And I listened at

1357
01:23:24,439 --> 01:23:29,439
Speaker 2: you with an empathy that I couldn't have your Lord Jesus,

1358
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:33,639
Speaker 2: Lord Lord. He had no empathy at all. I couldn't

1359
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:37,280
Speaker 2: find no empathy in your socks, in your pocket and

1360
01:23:37,320 --> 01:23:40,560
Speaker 2: your shoelaces, no empathy nowhere. I don't know if you

1361
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:41,240
Speaker 2: remember telling me.

1362
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:43,679
Speaker 1: We were in the meeting and you, Ohio, you looked

1363
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:46,800
Speaker 1: at me and said you scared me. You remember, No,

1364
01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:49,640
Speaker 1: you told me, you said, you said, I don't know

1365
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:52,000
Speaker 1: what else to do me and my face and told

1366
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: me that he said, you're starting to scare me. I

1367
01:23:54,880 --> 01:23:58,519
Speaker 1: don't know what else to say to you. That statement

1368
01:23:59,600 --> 01:23:59,960
Speaker 1: messed me.

1369
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:04,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was hard.

1370
01:24:05,439 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 1: You wouldn't no easy case.

1371
01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:12,400
Speaker 2: You kind of stretch the parameters of my abilities. And

1372
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 2: one of the things that I had to learn that

1373
01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:18,360
Speaker 2: I had to learn in life that led me to

1374
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:21,840
Speaker 2: be able to say that to you is that I'm

1375
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:25,760
Speaker 2: not Superman wow, and that I'm not God, and I

1376
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:29,880
Speaker 2: can't fix everybody. And the arrogance of thinking that I

1377
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:34,599
Speaker 2: could fix it everybody led to somebody dying in my life.

1378
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:39,760
Speaker 2: And so the reason I said you scare me is

1379
01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:44,679
Speaker 2: because I learned every man, woman, boy or girl needs

1380
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:47,600
Speaker 2: to learn no matter how gifted you are, you have limitations.

1381
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:51,479
Speaker 2: And if your ego leads you to the point that

1382
01:24:52,280 --> 01:24:55,600
Speaker 2: you destroy somebody because you can't accept the fact that

1383
01:24:55,680 --> 01:25:00,880
Speaker 2: you can't fix them, that's not a blessing. And and

1384
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:06,479
Speaker 2: so keeping my I hate to call it ego, though

1385
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:10,960
Speaker 2: I guess it was. It just sounds bad. But I thought,

1386
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:13,439
Speaker 2: you know, I could, I could talk to anybody. I've

1387
01:25:13,479 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 2: been on death row. I spent three days in Saying Quentin,

1388
01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:22,720
Speaker 2: ministering to inmates. I've done all kinds of things that

1389
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:27,679
Speaker 2: you would not believe. Been in snake handling churches, I've

1390
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:30,680
Speaker 2: done everything but all over the world in the bush,

1391
01:25:31,240 --> 01:25:33,360
Speaker 2: been talking to people that I didn't even speak the

1392
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:37,120
Speaker 2: same language. And and I've forgotten a lot of good results,

1393
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:42,799
Speaker 2: but I've also had some failures. And and me saying

1394
01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:47,400
Speaker 2: that I was scared that I wasn't going to get

1395
01:25:47,400 --> 01:25:53,800
Speaker 2: through to you? Was me recognizing that some people are

1396
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:58,040
Speaker 2: you a kryptonite and and and you you got to

1397
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:01,160
Speaker 2: know when you're out gunned, even if it means calling

1398
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:04,040
Speaker 2: in somebody else or referring them to somebody else. You

1399
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:09,679
Speaker 2: have to know your limitations party, party. Even in business,

1400
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:14,920
Speaker 2: you hire your weaknesses, not your strengths. But if you

1401
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:17,640
Speaker 2: don't think you have any weaknesses, you won't hire the

1402
01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:21,760
Speaker 2: right people. You have to be strong enough to know

1403
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:24,160
Speaker 2: where your limitations are to figure out who you need

1404
01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:29,040
Speaker 2: around you. Yes, okay, And so uh, I was contemplating,

1405
01:26:29,439 --> 01:26:32,280
Speaker 2: am I going to get through? Because I had to

1406
01:26:32,280 --> 01:26:36,080
Speaker 2: come through from that little boy and that bottle of

1407
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:38,680
Speaker 2: pills and all those things that happened along. I had

1408
01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:40,840
Speaker 2: to come through all of those layers, and I didn't

1409
01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:43,160
Speaker 2: have long to do it. And you're asking me about

1410
01:26:43,160 --> 01:26:46,639
Speaker 2: theology and eschatology and pneumatology and all of that kind

1411
01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:50,680
Speaker 2: of stuff, and you're you're curious about business, and you

1412
01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:52,960
Speaker 2: want to know how to negotiate a deal and work

1413
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:56,760
Speaker 2: type of contract, and what's the trust and and what's

1414
01:26:56,800 --> 01:26:58,840
Speaker 2: the four one K? And how do you how do

1415
01:26:58,840 --> 01:27:04,760
Speaker 2: you invest in crypto, everything, just everything, everything, And I'm

1416
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:08,519
Speaker 2: trying to answer your questions about business and about life.

1417
01:27:08,920 --> 01:27:11,639
Speaker 2: At the same time, I'm trying to get you off

1418
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:14,479
Speaker 2: the edge of the cliff. And it was, it was,

1419
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 2: It was a scary thing. Anytime you go to the

1420
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:23,920
Speaker 2: wire trying to pull somebody back, you always risk falling

1421
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:29,400
Speaker 2: off yourself. Yes, sir, And that's the value of our relationship.

1422
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:33,560
Speaker 2: I love our relationship, and I think you do. Ip

1423
01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:38,760
Speaker 2: number nine advice to your younger self as we come

1424
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:42,160
Speaker 2: to a close, because we could talk, we could talk

1425
01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:47,120
Speaker 2: all day. As we come to a close, if you

1426
01:27:47,160 --> 01:27:50,439
Speaker 2: could go back and talk to that gang banging little

1427
01:27:50,439 --> 01:27:55,880
Speaker 2: boy you were, if you could get a chance to

1428
01:27:56,000 --> 01:28:02,439
Speaker 2: talk to him, what would you tell him that might

1429
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:04,439
Speaker 2: circumvent some of the things he went through.

1430
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:08,080
Speaker 1: I would look him in his face and tell him,

1431
01:28:08,120 --> 01:28:11,400
Speaker 1: you're in for a ride of a lifetime. And if

1432
01:28:11,400 --> 01:28:16,400
Speaker 1: you would stop being angry, your anger is going to

1433
01:28:16,520 --> 01:28:22,599
Speaker 1: stop you from riding down some amazing rides. There's some

1434
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:26,439
Speaker 1: journeys that you're going to take that if you would

1435
01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:29,040
Speaker 1: just listen, and I think you know it all, and

1436
01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:33,599
Speaker 1: we're trying to defend yourself. You're in for one heck

1437
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:37,560
Speaker 1: of a ride. There's some things that you can experience

1438
01:28:37,640 --> 01:28:40,760
Speaker 1: that I didn't get to experience if you just be

1439
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:43,400
Speaker 1: quiet and unball your fists.

1440
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:47,840
Speaker 2: So maybe that's your takeaway today for in the next chapter,

1441
01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:53,720
Speaker 2: to una your fists, to not be afraid, to not

1442
01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:58,559
Speaker 2: let rejection rule over top of you, to walk into

1443
01:28:58,560 --> 01:29:03,559
Speaker 2: a room that's not perfect and have to struggle with it.

1444
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:07,120
Speaker 2: To be able to clean somebody who didn't clean you,

1445
01:29:09,120 --> 01:29:13,320
Speaker 2: hold somebody who didn't hold you. To grow to the

1446
01:29:13,400 --> 01:29:20,800
Speaker 2: point that you overcome or come over the obstacle that's

1447
01:29:20,840 --> 01:29:24,439
Speaker 2: in your life today. If you got that out of

1448
01:29:24,640 --> 01:29:32,240
Speaker 2: this next chapter, then we have been successful. Thank you

1449
01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:34,639
Speaker 2: for being a part of my next chapter.

1450
01:29:34,920 --> 01:29:41,800
Speaker 1: Thank you. I can't believe you brought me on here,

1451
01:29:41,920 --> 01:29:42,479
Speaker 1: made me cry.

1452
01:29:44,080 --> 01:29:49,639
Speaker 2: I don't Hey, everybody, I want to take this time

1453
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:54,000
Speaker 2: to thank you for watching the Next Chapter podcast. If

1454
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:58,479
Speaker 2: this conversation inspired you, helped you reflect on an idea,

1455
01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:03,040
Speaker 2: or spark something new inside of you, make sure to like,

1456
01:30:03,400 --> 01:30:09,599
Speaker 2: comment and subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. Remember,

1457
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:15,000
Speaker 2: life isn't about how you begin, it's about how you finished.

1458
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:20,599
Speaker 2: Strong to start your next chapter with us right here.

1459
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:22,519
Speaker 2: Every week