1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,599
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

2
00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:05,200
Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

3
00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,840
Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

4
00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:08,720
Speaker 2: the future of the show.

5
00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:10,719
Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

6
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,280
Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

7
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:14,640
Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

8
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,080
Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

9
00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,599
Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

10
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,800
Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,

11
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,600
Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

12
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,560
Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

13
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,920
Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

14
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:35,640
Speaker 3: dot com.

15
00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,560
Speaker 1: Let's talk about TikTok. It is big. I mean, this

16
00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,519
Speaker 1: is just too perfect. I mean, I'll say this. I

17
00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:43,279
Speaker 1: was prepared for this.

18
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,400
Speaker 3: I knew it was going to happen. I've made my

19
00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:49,599
Speaker 3: piece now long ago. Let's go ahead and put this

20
00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,600
Speaker 3: up there on the screen. This is from Donald Trump

21
00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,120
Speaker 3: two days ago before he took office. He says, I

22
00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,960
Speaker 3: am asking companies not to let TikTok stay dark. Will

23
00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,480
Speaker 3: issue in executive order on Monday, which has been issued

24
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,320
Speaker 3: by the Way to extend the period of time. It's

25
00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,039
Speaker 3: approximately ninety days before the laws prohibition takes effect, so

26
00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,440
Speaker 3: that we can make a deal to protect our national security.

27
00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,920
Speaker 3: This order will also confirm there will be no liability

28
00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,240
Speaker 3: for any company that helped keep TikTok from going dark.

29
00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,319
Speaker 3: Before any order, Americans deserve to see our exciting inauguration

30
00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:23,080
Speaker 3: on Monday.

31
00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,400
Speaker 1: As well as other events and conversations.

32
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,880
Speaker 3: I would like the United States to have a fifty

33
00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,119
Speaker 3: percent ownership position in a joint venture. By doing this,

34
00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,240
Speaker 3: we save TikTok, keep it in good hands, and allow

35
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,040
Speaker 3: it to stay up without US approval, there is no Tiktalk.

36
00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,399
Speaker 3: With our approval, it is worth hundreds of billions, maybe trillions. Therefore,

37
00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:40,679
Speaker 3: my initial thought is a joint venture between the current

38
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,200
Speaker 3: owners and or new owners, whereby a US gets a

39
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,119
Speaker 3: fifty percent ownership and a joint venture set up between

40
00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,280
Speaker 3: the US and whoever purchase we choose.

41
00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,720
Speaker 2: So this tops like the new NPR is that well yeah,

42
00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:53,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think nobody really knows what is

43
00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,160
Speaker 2: meant by this, including probably Donald Trump. But you know,

44
00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,640
Speaker 2: if we're going to have state ownership of media, there

45
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,160
Speaker 2: are models that can be successful that provide editorial independence.

46
00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,760
Speaker 4: You know, we could buy up TikTok. We could buy Twitter,

47
00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,000
Speaker 4: we could buy Facebook.

48
00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,360
Speaker 2: You know, have them run by an independent consortium, have

49
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,280
Speaker 2: independent funding sources, take the profit motive out of it.

50
00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:16,639
Speaker 4: Saga. This is the type IDA I can get on

51
00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,800
Speaker 4: board with. Yeah, something tells me that's not what he does.

52
00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,160
Speaker 1: Possibly go wrong with all of it.

53
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,680
Speaker 3: Here's the thing about the whole TikTok thing. Basically Trump

54
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,760
Speaker 3: was pro banning TikTok. It's like bitcoin pro banning Bitcoin

55
00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,240
Speaker 3: pro banning TikTok leaves for four years. Remember what I

56
00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:35,960
Speaker 3: said about being gone for four years. Well, what happened

57
00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,720
Speaker 3: in four years? TikTok became massively more popular. I think

58
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,280
Speaker 3: it doubled its users.

59
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:40,519
Speaker 1: Want.

60
00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,000
Speaker 3: An ex engineer on the platform actually revealed one hundred

61
00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,000
Speaker 3: and seventy million people log onto the app I think

62
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,480
Speaker 3: once a month, and I think or eight ninety or

63
00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,120
Speaker 3: one hundred million are spending an average of fifty three minutes.

64
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,080
Speaker 1: Per day on TikTok.

65
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:56,080
Speaker 4: Is this just in America?

66
00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:57,440
Speaker 1: In the United States?

67
00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, in the US, that's one third of the US

68
00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,720
Speaker 3: population and probably, god I'm terrible at math, maybe like

69
00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,680
Speaker 3: forty fifty percent of the US adult population. Just for context,

70
00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,959
Speaker 3: so you can see here what it means and how

71
00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:13,519
Speaker 3: much time people are spending on TikTok.

72
00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:15,520
Speaker 4: It's not to mention this anymore, No, it's everybody.

73
00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:15,800
Speaker 1: I mean.

74
00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,600
Speaker 3: I was on the Metro today and some guys scrolling

75
00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,000
Speaker 3: TikTok right next to me, and I was like, I

76
00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:20,600
Speaker 3: was like, oh, how'd you download that?

77
00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:20,760
Speaker 2: You know?

78
00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,000
Speaker 1: I was asking hibout. I was like, how does it work? Now?

79
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:24,440
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, He's like, oh yeah. Dude went

80
00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:25,840
Speaker 3: off like he had no idea what I was. It

81
00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:27,320
Speaker 3: was like, oh yeah, it went off and then it

82
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:27,760
Speaker 3: came back.

83
00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,679
Speaker 1: I was so excited. It was interesting.

84
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,960
Speaker 3: So the TLDR of all of it is it's a mess.

85
00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,840
Speaker 3: Because the law that banned TikTok was supposed to go

86
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,560
Speaker 3: into effect on January nineteen. That law would impose ruinous

87
00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,440
Speaker 3: fines on Apple, Oracle and all other US providers of

88
00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,560
Speaker 3: any services to TikTok. Now, the thing is is that

89
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,840
Speaker 3: for the Apple and all these other companies to believe

90
00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 3: this executive order is lawful, which I don't believe it's

91
00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,720
Speaker 3: lawful at all, is to believe that they will not

92
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,280
Speaker 3: go through with the position of the fine. Now with

93
00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,760
Speaker 3: Tom Cotton, who is the I think chairman or one

94
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,680
Speaker 3: of the high ranking members on the Intelligence Committee in

95
00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,320
Speaker 3: the Senate has said is like, no, no executive order,

96
00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,320
Speaker 3: delaying action is legal and will face scrutiny and could

97
00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,960
Speaker 3: impose backfines on these companies. That's part of why I'm

98
00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,480
Speaker 3: still not one hundred percent sure the way that it's

99
00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,240
Speaker 3: working with the app store, with Oracle and all these

100
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,919
Speaker 3: other I know Oracles resume service in terms of its

101
00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:25,880
Speaker 3: ability to scroll. I think it was working if you

102
00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:27,760
Speaker 3: have the app pre installed, but I'm still not sure

103
00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,440
Speaker 3: if it's on the App Store right now. It's the

104
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,359
Speaker 3: same with the play Store for Google for these people.

105
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,839
Speaker 3: If these companies are in complete legal limbo. And the

106
00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,479
Speaker 3: real thing that actually kind of ties Trump's hands is

107
00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,120
Speaker 3: you can do as many executive orders as you want,

108
00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,680
Speaker 3: but this is an Act of Congress at the end

109
00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,839
Speaker 3: of the day, and so the ability for trade organizations,

110
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,520
Speaker 3: even a Facebook, honestly anybody, to be able to file

111
00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,239
Speaker 3: suit against them and actually have the court system impose

112
00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,159
Speaker 3: this block is very possible. I think what's clear to

113
00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,279
Speaker 3: me is that Trump all only cares about being popular,

114
00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,800
Speaker 3: and he knows TikTok is massively popular, and that he

115
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:10,560
Speaker 3: himself is massively popular on TikTok, and so because of

116
00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,640
Speaker 3: all of that, his sole goal is to try and

117
00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,560
Speaker 3: save the program and or save the company, but also

118
00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:22,120
Speaker 3: use some geopolitics in terms of his negotiations with China

119
00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,520
Speaker 3: to get it done. So that's something that I've seen

120
00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,120
Speaker 3: happen with him in the past. He's reportedly spoke with

121
00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,400
Speaker 3: President She or Premier She in China.

122
00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:34,719
Speaker 1: They talked about TikTok.

123
00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:36,599
Speaker 3: I think he's going to be going to China probably

124
00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:38,440
Speaker 3: in the next couple of months. That's apparently one of

125
00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,560
Speaker 3: the first trips that he wants to make as president

126
00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,120
Speaker 3: to discuss the issue. So he could pursue a forced

127
00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,320
Speaker 3: sale and it could be like some sort of negotiation.

128
00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,680
Speaker 3: It is just objectively crazy though, for the US government

129
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,000
Speaker 3: on fifty percent of TikTok, it's like and by the way,

130
00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, would it be a victory for

131
00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:55,400
Speaker 3: the pro palestin Indian side.

132
00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:56,640
Speaker 1: We're like, well, we save TikTok, But.

133
00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,360
Speaker 3: Now the government, the government, what do you go mitt Listen,

134
00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,440
Speaker 3: Gaza people, what do you think is going to happen

135
00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,719
Speaker 3: if the government owns fifty percent of that? You know,

136
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,400
Speaker 3: good luck with your BLM and trends and Gaza stuff

137
00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,840
Speaker 3: under the Donald Trump administration or if Jade Vance wins

138
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:12,800
Speaker 3: the presidency next time, what's the first thing I would

139
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:14,640
Speaker 3: turn off? If you didn't want something in your culture

140
00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,880
Speaker 3: to be happening, That's the immediate thing. So I don't

141
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:19,720
Speaker 3: think it would be the best solution, but you guys

142
00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:20,160
Speaker 3: do what you want.

143
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:21,200
Speaker 1: If you're spending fifty three.

144
00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,719
Speaker 2: Minutes, well, I mean we already have the model of that,

145
00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,000
Speaker 2: which is Elon Musk's ownership of Footer. It would look

146
00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,520
Speaker 2: very much like that, you know, where certain things are

147
00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:30,680
Speaker 2: very much prioritized and certain things are very much d

148
00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,279
Speaker 2: ranked and actively censored, including you know a lot of

149
00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:38,240
Speaker 2: pro Palestinian phrases and content, et cetera. So yeah, I

150
00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,240
Speaker 2: mean the whole thing is just what do you even

151
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,240
Speaker 2: say about it? Like from the looking at it from

152
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:47,680
Speaker 2: the democratic perspective, like, these people are total and complete, pathetic,

153
00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:52,960
Speaker 2: embarrassing morons, morons like you couldn't predict that this would

154
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,799
Speaker 2: be wildly unpopular. So Trump is the person who really,

155
00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:58,359
Speaker 2: you know, in his first term, towards the end of

156
00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,680
Speaker 2: his first term, he starts pushing this issued some other

157
00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,120
Speaker 2: executive order that it gets struck down, it doesn't happen,

158
00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,760
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, but he starts pushing it. Democrats are

159
00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,400
Speaker 2: such idiots that, you know, the police starts to move

160
00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,440
Speaker 2: on this where there was some nominal majority theoretically in

161
00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:13,880
Speaker 2: favor of a TikTok ban in.

162
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:15,840
Speaker 4: Oh, I guess we better get on board with this.

163
00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:17,080
Speaker 4: I guess we better pass a law.

164
00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,400
Speaker 2: So they pass it, Joe Biden signs it into law,

165
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,080
Speaker 2: and then here, you know, in the waning days of

166
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,720
Speaker 2: the Biden administration, they're freaking out like, oh my god,

167
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:27,760
Speaker 2: I can't believe we did this, Like we don't want

168
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,360
Speaker 2: this to happen, No, this shouldn't go away, blah blah blah.

169
00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,320
Speaker 2: It's like, what is wrong with you? You couldn't predict

170
00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:35,280
Speaker 2: the way this was going to play on. And also,

171
00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,040
Speaker 2: by the way, do you have a single principle that

172
00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,920
Speaker 2: you actually care about and are willing to stand by

173
00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,240
Speaker 2: because polls can move around, you.

174
00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,960
Speaker 4: Know, you could actually just have a value.

175
00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,120
Speaker 2: You could actually just have a principle that you care about,

176
00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,040
Speaker 2: and whether it's in favor of TikTok or against TikTok,

177
00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,200
Speaker 2: you could just stand by that thing and argue for

178
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,080
Speaker 2: that thing. But no, no, they're just like blown around

179
00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 2: in the winds of wherever public opinion happens to be

180
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,120
Speaker 2: sickly led around by the nose by Republicans. I mean,

181
00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,360
Speaker 2: Trump leads them into this thing, and then Trump leads

182
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,080
Speaker 2: them out of this thing, and they have no ability

183
00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,400
Speaker 2: to set the messaging or the agenda themselves. It's so

184
00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,000
Speaker 2: utterly pathetic that it is completely insane.

185
00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,040
Speaker 1: That's you know. I also think it's a crisis of competence.

186
00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,080
Speaker 3: So the law passed and the Biden administration basically didn't

187
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,000
Speaker 3: do anything about brokering for sale. I mean, if you

188
00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:22,880
Speaker 3: were being real, because the way to save it and

189
00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:24,880
Speaker 3: for the Democrats to get credit, they could have gotten

190
00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,440
Speaker 3: credit from the national security hawks and from the voters

191
00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:28,280
Speaker 3: for saving TikTok.

192
00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:29,200
Speaker 1: You passed the bill.

193
00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,720
Speaker 3: Biden should get to China, right, he didn't have anything

194
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,280
Speaker 3: else going on, right, He literally wasn't even running for president.

195
00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,239
Speaker 3: He should have flown to China, sat down with Sihinping,

196
00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:40,760
Speaker 3: brokeered some sort of deal or sale or whatever.

197
00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:42,520
Speaker 1: They are multiple willing buyers here.

198
00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,240
Speaker 3: We have a shit ton of leverage on China if

199
00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,120
Speaker 3: we wanted to be and then they could have saved

200
00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:47,960
Speaker 3: it in they could have had it, and instead they

201
00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,599
Speaker 3: kind of just bumbled their way in to a de

202
00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,760
Speaker 3: facto ban. I mean it was hilarious too where I mean,

203
00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:55,640
Speaker 3: how long we've been covering this story. I actually I

204
00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,840
Speaker 3: know in terms of my monologues from twenty nineteen. In

205
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,360
Speaker 3: recent months, we're like, hey, the deadline's on January nineteenth,

206
00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,200
Speaker 3: looks like nothing's going to happen. And then you would

207
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,400
Speaker 3: see like Chuck Schumer the day before be like, well,

208
00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,360
Speaker 3: we're going to try and delay it. It's like, dude,

209
00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,480
Speaker 3: you're lawmaker, Like how did you not even know that

210
00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,040
Speaker 3: this was happening? We're doing nothing behind the scenes. So

211
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,920
Speaker 3: I think there's a major competence of governance in terms

212
00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,040
Speaker 3: of actually trying to execute the ban or even the

213
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:23,240
Speaker 3: forced sale. And also, yeah, it's like this weird, like

214
00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,360
Speaker 3: what do you guys? What are you guys trying to

215
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,000
Speaker 3: do here? And that's kind of what I'm That's the

216
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,360
Speaker 3: thing I'm still confused about.

217
00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,439
Speaker 1: Why did you guys all vote for this in the past.

218
00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:32,240
Speaker 1: That's understand thing.

219
00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,480
Speaker 2: And that's the thing, and it's such a core problem

220
00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:41,199
Speaker 2: for the Democratic Party, which is that under neoliberalism, they

221
00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,760
Speaker 2: outsourced any core values to basically market logic, right, And

222
00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,240
Speaker 2: a corollary of that is this idea of popularism, which

223
00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,920
Speaker 2: is just like, let's take a poll and see what

224
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,200
Speaker 2: thing pulls the best, and that's what will run on

225
00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:59,560
Speaker 2: and that's where we'll be. And again, polls change people's opinions.

226
00:09:59,600 --> 00:09:59,880
Speaker 4: Guess what.

227
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,959
Speaker 2: But Republicans really successfully change their opinions on immigration, as

228
00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,760
Speaker 2: one example, because they were willing to have, you know,

229
00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,760
Speaker 2: something that they cared about and make the case for

230
00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,080
Speaker 2: it over and over again and saga. I know the

231
00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,559
Speaker 2: reality also helped them make that case, but the point

232
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,040
Speaker 2: still stands. They were willing to have a fight, even

233
00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,319
Speaker 2: on things that were unpopular and to move public opinion.

234
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,760
Speaker 2: If you have no values, nothing you're willing to fight for.

235
00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,120
Speaker 2: Everything is finger in the wind, everything is market logic

236
00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:30,839
Speaker 2: and testing it.

237
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:32,559
Speaker 4: Then like it's just this is.

238
00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,760
Speaker 2: The sort of pathetic situation that you end up in

239
00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,080
Speaker 2: and you never are going to be the primary mover.

240
00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,640
Speaker 2: You're always just going to be chasing your tail or

241
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,560
Speaker 2: chasing Trump's tail or reacting to what the Republicans are

242
00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,040
Speaker 2: throwing at you in the way that they're shaping the culture.

243
00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,959
Speaker 2: And so that's why this story is so important outside.

244
00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,079
Speaker 2: I mean, it's important on its own right because TikTok

245
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,439
Speaker 2: is such a massive platform and it is an influential

246
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,720
Speaker 2: part of the culture, etc. But it's also important because

247
00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,160
Speaker 2: it is indicative of one of the core failures of

248
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,600
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party and failures of like really meeting the moment.

249
00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,200
Speaker 2: And so you know, for example, Trump's will see how

250
00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,840
Speaker 2: long Trump's like newfound relative popularity lasts where he was

251
00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,160
Speaker 2: flirting with a majority approval ratings, something he has never

252
00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,959
Speaker 2: had before. And I genuinely think a lot of that

253
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,080
Speaker 2: is just this sense of like, he makes decisions and

254
00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 2: he takes actions.

255
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:24,880
Speaker 4: And even if you know.

256
00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,560
Speaker 2: Those are things that some of them I agree with

257
00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:29,199
Speaker 2: or some of them I don't agree with. I'm talking

258
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,720
Speaker 2: about from like an average voter perspective, Like, at least

259
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,920
Speaker 2: he's taking action, he's making decisions, and he's doing things.

260
00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,440
Speaker 2: The Democrats never can make a decision. They never know

261
00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,680
Speaker 2: what they stand for. They never are willing to just

262
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,480
Speaker 2: say like, yeah, I'm I'm gonna make that thing happen.

263
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,040
Speaker 2: That thing is important, I'm going to.

264
00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:45,920
Speaker 4: Make it happen.

265
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,440
Speaker 2: Right now, there's always got to be twelve committees or

266
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,600
Speaker 2: a parliamentarian that says I can't do it or whatever,

267
00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,040
Speaker 2: and so, you know, I feel like all of that

268
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,960
Speaker 2: is sort of tangled up in this TikTok story and

269
00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:02,120
Speaker 2: just illustrates their utter this and why they're now in

270
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,840
Speaker 2: minority and just lost the popular vote to freakin Donald J.

271
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:06,240
Speaker 4: Trump.

272
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:07,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I think that's all well said.

273
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,720
Speaker 3: I see it a lot, not only with a TikTok issue,

274
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,480
Speaker 3: but in terms of like what they're how they're dealing

275
00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,080
Speaker 3: with Trump. I really think that they were just so

276
00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,080
Speaker 3: unprepared for the collapse and lack of the resistance, and

277
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,679
Speaker 3: they just don't know what to do now for what

278
00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,559
Speaker 3: it looks like, and all of the sensible things that

279
00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,120
Speaker 3: they would want to do would be so detrimental to

280
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,599
Speaker 3: the Democratic Party establishment that they don't know how to

281
00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:33,400
Speaker 3: deal with it, right.

282
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:34,120
Speaker 1: I mean, the good.

283
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,160
Speaker 3: Billionaire thing is the best example where they're like, Okay,

284
00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:37,440
Speaker 3: so what are we doing here?

285
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:38,920
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know.

286
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:40,120
Speaker 4: People who don't get that reference.

287
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,360
Speaker 2: Ken Martin, who is the leading candidate for the DNC

288
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,080
Speaker 2: new DNC chair, get asked about like taking money from billionaires.

289
00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:48,760
Speaker 2: He's like, well, of course we're going to take money

290
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,480
Speaker 2: from good billionaires, which is not the bad billionaires. And

291
00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,439
Speaker 2: of course his definition of a good billionaire is someone who

292
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,880
Speaker 2: gives money in the Democratic Party. And it's like, you know,

293
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,240
Speaker 2: maybe just having our country or run by billionaires is bad,

294
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,920
Speaker 2: whether you think they're good or bad billionaires. Maybe that's

295
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,640
Speaker 2: just a bad thing that you should consistently stand against.

296
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,120
Speaker 2: But that would require having a principle and actually caring

297
00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,760
Speaker 2: about Yeah, And it would, like, to your point, would

298
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,720
Speaker 2: be incredibly detrimental to the existing Democratic leadership, whose primary

299
00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,160
Speaker 2: skill is sucking up to rich people and raising a.

300
00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:19,520
Speaker 1: Lot of money.

301
00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,720
Speaker 3: From what I have noticed most about many people who

302
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,400
Speaker 3: are new Republicans in the last four years, specifically new

303
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,160
Speaker 3: vibee based Trump supporters, Yeah, is if you ask them

304
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,560
Speaker 3: about hypocrisy whatever, they're going to be like, look, I

305
00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,000
Speaker 3: don't even disagree with you, but and what are they

306
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,920
Speaker 3: gonna list I don't like George Soros, or I don't

307
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,360
Speaker 3: like you know, Mark Zuckerberg before his previous turn to

308
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:48,320
Speaker 3: the day. They're like, I've lived under oligarchic, democratic, liberal

309
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,320
Speaker 3: cultural elite rule now and I hate it, and so

310
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:53,439
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna go with the other option. And I

311
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,960
Speaker 3: don't even particularly like the other option that much. In

312
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,520
Speaker 3: a lot of ways, the flight ninety three election was

313
00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,760
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, it was not twenty and sixteen. Maybe

314
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,199
Speaker 3: we shoul debate that at some point with a lot

315
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,360
Speaker 3: of other people, But in terms of the way people felt,

316
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,640
Speaker 3: they genuinely felt as if there was no escape from

317
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:19,520
Speaker 3: the crisis of competence, of chaos, insanity, pressure, culture, whatever,

318
00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:24,080
Speaker 3: all came together in terms of Trump because of who

319
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,360
Speaker 3: he is at a showman level, his ability to convey

320
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 3: the message of I'm just gonna do what I want.

321
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,480
Speaker 3: I'm willing to hit the red button and I'm going

322
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,560
Speaker 3: to vote for Trump. And I've been grappling with like,

323
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,640
Speaker 3: how did this happen over the last four years? And

324
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,640
Speaker 3: it's interesting because I think what it comes back to

325
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:45,720
Speaker 3: is an indictment of liberal cultural elite rule and so

326
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:47,920
Speaker 3: much of it when you're faced with because we're about

327
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:49,120
Speaker 3: to talk about meme coin, this is why it's a

328
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,880
Speaker 3: good transition. Yeah, is really is really just comes down

329
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,480
Speaker 3: to they're like, okay, but Bill Gates, you know, blah

330
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,440
Speaker 3: blah blah, And there's just not enough people who have

331
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,120
Speaker 3: been involved at the high levels of democratic politics to

332
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,920
Speaker 3: call that out or establish any credibility on issue that

333
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:07,920
Speaker 3: they're like, screw you each shit, I'm not going to

334
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,760
Speaker 3: listen to somebody you know who took money from George

335
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,640
Speaker 3: or posing with Alex Soros and posing with Mark Zuckerberg

336
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:16,840
Speaker 3: and all these other people you know four years ago.

337
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear it from you, right, And.

338
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,880
Speaker 3: So then the issue becomes a non And that's exactly

339
00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,920
Speaker 3: how bipartisan. What is it? The bigotry of low expectations.

340
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:32,040
Speaker 3: That's what's effectively now happening to American politics is that

341
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,720
Speaker 3: people have so little faith that the other side is

342
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,280
Speaker 3: going to do anything even remotely principled, that they say,

343
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,520
Speaker 3: screw it. I'm just going to pick the person who

344
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,040
Speaker 3: I think will get a little bit of what I

345
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:43,520
Speaker 3: want done.

346
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,920
Speaker 1: And I totally under I did that that.

347
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:50,040
Speaker 3: I don't like this position, But what a rational actor

348
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:51,480
Speaker 3: in a bad model?

349
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,120
Speaker 1: Now, how you fix that? I have no idea.

350
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,000
Speaker 3: Okay, you're talking to the wrong guy, But I do

351
00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:00,960
Speaker 3: think that that feeling is so important for especially a

352
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,240
Speaker 3: lot of this New Bros. Fear in others is they

353
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,200
Speaker 3: just feel so beaten down by a lot of the

354
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,760
Speaker 3: democratic institutions and others that they just feel like as

355
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,800
Speaker 3: if they have no choice but to have a total escape.

356
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:15,920
Speaker 1: And that's a very hard problem to solve. You know.

357
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:21,080
Speaker 2: My view is effectively that after the Rock War and

358
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,240
Speaker 2: the financial collapse like that, sort of like twin blow,

359
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,760
Speaker 2: the neoliberal order was basically done. Now, this is not

360
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,640
Speaker 2: the way that any normal person poort articulated, but it's

361
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,840
Speaker 2: like the system as it exists, like this is bankrupt,

362
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,240
Speaker 2: this has failed, this is not delivering for me in

363
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:36,720
Speaker 2: any sort of a meaningful way.

364
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:38,200
Speaker 4: We got to do something different.

365
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,120
Speaker 2: And so you have these twin rival movements that you

366
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,320
Speaker 2: know arise. You've got the Bernie movement and you've got

367
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,320
Speaker 2: the Trump movement. And Democrats really had kind of a choice.

368
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:54,360
Speaker 2: They could have either focused their primary efforts on defeating

369
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,320
Speaker 2: trump Ism and you know, making that the priority and

370
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,440
Speaker 2: using models from history of how we defeat did you know,

371
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,680
Speaker 2: fascism in the past and right wing reactionary movements in

372
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,480
Speaker 2: the past, which was through the New Deal Coalition, et cetera.

373
00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:12,359
Speaker 2: Or Democratic elites could primarily train their fire on that.

374
00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,760
Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders grossterswovem and so that they could maintain their

375
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,960
Speaker 2: grip on power within the Democratic Party and that was

376
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:20,600
Speaker 2: goal number one. I'm not going to say they didn't

377
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,440
Speaker 2: want a defuture, of course they did, but that was

378
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,800
Speaker 2: goal number one. There were even there were New York

379
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,080
Speaker 2: Times articles about how they were they were willing to

380
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,240
Speaker 2: risk quote unquote party damage to defeat Bernie Sanders movement,

381
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,040
Speaker 2: and with that as their primary goal, they were wildly successful.

382
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:36,520
Speaker 4: Wildly successful.

383
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,800
Speaker 2: That's what the and Ryan was treating about this this morning.

384
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,240
Speaker 2: That was what the identity politics invention from Hillary Clinton,

385
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,960
Speaker 2: That's what that was all about. That was about saying, like,

386
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,159
Speaker 2: you all aren't even really progressive because you're not talking

387
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,399
Speaker 2: about intersectionalism and breaking up the big banks, isn't going

388
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,080
Speaker 2: to end racism, blah blah blah. Very effective, okay, and

389
00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:00,639
Speaker 2: also really annoying to the population and created a massive

390
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,720
Speaker 2: backlash to the Democratic Party. And number two, like Russia Gate,

391
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,439
Speaker 2: was also part of making sure that after Hillary Clinton

392
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,080
Speaker 2: was defeated, the most logical takeaway for people to have,

393
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,320
Speaker 2: you know, come to at that point was this lady

394
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,960
Speaker 2: who was like the queen of the neoliberals. This way

395
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,439
Speaker 2: of doing politics, this doesn't work to defeat Trump. This

396
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,959
Speaker 2: isn't the thing, Like we need to do something different.

397
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,720
Speaker 2: But instead of having that takeaway, they had a takeaway

398
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,399
Speaker 2: of Russia and collusion and the p tape and Komi

399
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,760
Speaker 2: and whatever told a distraction tactic from their manifest failures

400
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,520
Speaker 2: at that time, and again it worked. It worked for

401
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,960
Speaker 2: what their primary goal was. It works like a charm.

402
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,600
Speaker 2: And so you know, to me, the real you know,

403
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 2: from my perspective, off ramp from this moment where trump

404
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,800
Speaker 2: Ism is ascendant, dominant, no breaks on the car maximist

405
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:54,960
Speaker 2: approach to governance, which we're already seeing with you know,

406
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,480
Speaker 2: pardoning all the Jasics people and launching his own shit

407
00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,960
Speaker 2: coins and just like blatant, brazen theft of tens of

408
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,399
Speaker 2: billions of dollars from his own supporters. That was back

409
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 2: really in twenty sixteen was where the road diverge. And

410
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 2: then there was another bite of the apple in twenty

411
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,119
Speaker 2: twenty with Bernism again. But you know, that kind of

412
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 2: to me was when the course was ultimately set. So

413
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,280
Speaker 2: you know, and the pieces you say are not you know,

414
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,960
Speaker 2: that's that's another way of looking at that story, right.

415
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,800
Speaker 2: I don't think that those two things are like at

416
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,720
Speaker 2: odds with each other. But my own view of our

417
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,800
Speaker 2: recent history and how we ended up with this. Really,

418
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,440
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen is kind of the pivot point where, yeah,

419
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:40,160
Speaker 2: where Democrats decide that rather than embracing their own left

420
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,520
Speaker 2: wing response to trump Ism, they're going to try to

421
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,760
Speaker 2: hold on to this bankrupt, discredited ideology.

422
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,159
Speaker 4: That is being rejected, not just here, but rejecting it

423
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:50,119
Speaker 4: around the world.

424
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,359
Speaker 3: Not only that, but actively embracing, pushing the culture and

425
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,120
Speaker 3: really making that the cornerstone of a lot of your

426
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,320
Speaker 3: argument against yes, the right and basically make against the left.

427
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I'm personally enjoying it, right Like I've

428
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,520
Speaker 3: hated this shit from the beginning. It's literally the only

429
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 3: reason that that's what turned me to right wing politics

430
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 3: was a rejection of what I thought was like cultural

431
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 3: liberal overreach. And so to see so much of the

432
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:22,639
Speaker 3: population completely blackpilled on any credibility of the media, on

433
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,960
Speaker 3: a lot of cultural like left wing shibbalts and things

434
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 3: that we weren't even allowed to say over the last

435
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 3: eight ye or you could say, but you're gonna have

436
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 3: problems and all of that. I'm I'm really really enjoying that.

437
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:34,160
Speaker 1: I do.

438
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,000
Speaker 3: I'm curious too to see how much of that is

439
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,679
Speaker 3: all Trump needs to do in some cases is not

440
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,679
Speaker 3: even do anything. As long as the economy is fine

441
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 3: and as long as a lot of this bullshit is

442
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 3: not in our culture.

443
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people might think that he's

444
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 1: very successful.

445
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 3: I just know so many people who are so disaffected

446
00:20:54,920 --> 00:21:00,040
Speaker 3: and so repulsed by these commanding heights of culture and

447
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 3: other that just the victory of Trump himself was enough.

448
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 3: I've been going back and doing some more reading about

449
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,480
Speaker 3: the Reagan era. Very similar actually, if you go back

450
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,680
Speaker 3: and you look at one of the reasons why Ronald

451
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,639
Speaker 3: Reagan was part of the reason why the eighties was

452
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 3: looked as like a way to save yourself from horror,

453
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:21,199
Speaker 3: the horrible like consternation of the nineteen seventies and all

454
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,920
Speaker 3: of that was a very similar period of like inflation,

455
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 3: chaos of foreign policy issues, but also just like crazy

456
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,919
Speaker 3: shit going on in terms of like movements on the

457
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 3: street from the new Left and the fall of the

458
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 3: Vietnam activism, and I mean even on the riot we

459
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 3: don't talk about and look at some of the big

460
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 3: right wing the Goldwaterism and stuff like that that Reagan

461
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,359
Speaker 3: was able to resurrect with the John Birch Society. I mean,

462
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 3: these were huge huge debates in the country at the time.

463
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 3: Reagan was able to use this like showman aspect of

464
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,200
Speaker 3: command in power, where look, he's an actor, right, yeah,

465
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,400
Speaker 3: he was a governor, but he had some beliefs.

466
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 1: But at the end they didn't do a lot.

467
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 3: But by doing that, just by kind of existing and

468
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 3: buying being the showman, this cheerleader of the United States

469
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 3: against Soviet Communism, he really was able to achieve like

470
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 3: a massive approval rating and real vibe shift, you know,

471
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 3: in the country. I have huge criticisms with Reagan presidency,

472
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 3: but you know, I like to study. I'm like, why

473
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 3: are people popular in their time? I think I think

474
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 3: Trump will be a huge beneficiary of a similar movement.

475
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,959
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know. I already see signs of like,

476
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 2: you know, tremendous over like the partnering the J six people.

477
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,479
Speaker 4: That's not popular. No, I don't really, I don't think

478
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 4: people care.

479
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 2: I repoined it really unpopular. So I think, I mean, see,

480
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 2: I see this is possible. It's possible. But I think

481
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 2: you're likely to see a backlash against him. I mean,

482
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 2: I think there's I think there's also going to be

483
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 2: a backlash against the you know more like aggressive and

484
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 2: like visibly cruel immigration crackdown. I think it's also I

485
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 2: don't think there's any guarantees about where the economy is

486
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 2: going to be either. I think there's, you know, very

487
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 2: possible that we have like an AI or crypto bubble

488
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 2: that completely bursts.

489
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 4: So a lot of question.

490
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 2: Marks about how this is all going to go for him.

491
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 2: I mean, it's look again possible, but I think I

492
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 2: think it's more likely that you're going to get some

493
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 2: level of backlash too, because they're reading a mandate that

494
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 2: is much broader than what voters actually handed them, and

495
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 2: that leads to a lot of political It.

496
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 1: Only depends on which Yeah, I don't disagree.

497
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 3: I mean that point yesterday right in terms of overreach

498
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 3: and what all of that stuff look likes. But I'll

499
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 3: tell you why I disagree on the jan six stuff.

500
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 3: This is a settled question. And in terms of what

501
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 3: I mean by that is that the January sixth Americans

502
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 3: heard more about January sixth and Donald Trump for four

503
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 3: years straight period than any other issue about Donald Trump.

504
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 3: He still won the popular vote, and he won his

505
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 3: own party. The idea that there would be some backlash

506
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 3: to Donald Trump doing what he basically said he was

507
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 3: going to do at least you know, maybe it's a

508
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 3: little bit more that I didn't.

509
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 4: Say he was going to pardon people, but he like

510
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 4: beating up police.

511
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: He didn't really say anything. That's what a lot of

512
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: people forget. Jade May said something, right, but Republicans.

513
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 2: That was not I think clear to people. But listen,

514
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 2: and people vote on a range of issues. So the

515
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 2: fact that Trump still gets elected by a point a

516
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 2: half doesn't mean that they were like, actually, January sixth.

517
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 3: Was fine, okay, But at this point Trump doesn't need

518
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 3: to run for reelection. He's going to do it on

519
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 3: day one, and people will forget about it in one week.

520
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 3: One of the reasons why.

521
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 2: Things build, right, what I'm saying is it's a sign

522
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 2: of the overreach. It's a sign maximalist. This happened like

523
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 2: last night at nine pm.

524
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: That's my point. I mean, okay, but the traveling.

525
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: Of the maximust approach to governance that vastly overreads the

526
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: mandate that he actually received from voters. So you know,

527
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 2: I think these things build on each other, right. I

528
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 2: think part of Trump why he was able to succeed

529
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: this time is that there was sort of rose color

530
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 2: grats and glasses because he had been out of power

531
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 2: for four years and people didn't really remember how chaotic

532
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: it was and all of the worst things that they

533
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 2: didn't like about him, but this was one of the

534
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 2: things that they liked that they were the most upset about.

535
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 2: And it is a big part of the reason why

536
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 2: Republicans in particular in twenty twenty two did so poorly

537
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 2: all the Republicans that were associated with So to your point,

538
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 2: he doesn't have to run for reelection, but some Republicans

539
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 2: is going to have to, and not all of them

540
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 2: are as Actually none of them are as like uniquely

541
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 2: charismatic and magically politically skilled as Donald Trump is.

542
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

543
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 3: No, look, I don't disagree, but I think is day one,

544
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 3: one of the things that they're doing is flood his

545
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 3: own strategy is to embrace the vibe shift, is to

546
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 3: do basically whatever they can at the height of their

547
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 3: powers and try not to do anything too unpopular. So far,

548
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 3: I think they've succeeded. I mean in terms of a

549
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 3: lot of these executive orders. Yeah, they're gonna bitch and

550
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 3: moan on CNN about January sixth. People just don't care

551
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 3: I really believe that people do not care about the party,

552
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 3: or if they do, forget about it in a week.

553
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: Okay. The stuff that sticks with people is both a

554
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: long term vibe.

555
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 3: So in terms of overreach, what would that look like,

556
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 3: It would look like foreign chaos, it would look like

557
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 3: major inflation.

558
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: Remember American stuck with Biden for what seven months? Eight months?

559
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 3: In the first eight months there was high inflation. At

560
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 3: that time, they were like, hey, do something about this,

561
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 3: do something about this. And it was only after a

562
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 3: while when you didn't do anything about it, they were like, Okay,

563
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 3: now we're going to turn on you. It takes a while,

564
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 3: So these things need to bleed. You're talking about immigration.

565
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, as we said, there's a

566
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 3: huge reality change. Also, if you look at the New

567
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 3: York Times pulling on this issue with shocking in terms

568
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 3: of the mass majority support for deportation, there's actually a

569
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 3: huge support for mass deportation.

570
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 1: What I mean by that is mass.

571
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 3: Deportation of all illegal immigrants, a plus twelve issue from

572
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 3: the New York Times. Now to your point, am I

573
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 3: going to take that to the bank?

574
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,199
Speaker 1: Right? If I'm not stupid?

575
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 3: I know how the media and how people are going

576
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 3: to receive the reality of it. I know exactly what

577
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 3: it looks like. I don't think most people do, so

578
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 3: we'll see. You know, it prophsibly could change. But the

579
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 3: fact that it's almost a seventy plus percent issue on

580
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 3: deporting at least all of the people who are here

581
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 3: illegally under the Biden administration is crazy, and that shows

582
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 3: you the change in the status quo.

583
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: As long as it is executed, I think somewhat competently,

584
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: he will be I think he will be more popular

585
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: for it. The only way it goes south is well, actually,

586
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 1: this is an interesting question too.

587
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 3: I'm not so sure if it can go south in

588
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 3: the same way the trust in media has now gone

589
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 3: down so much in the last eight years, the same

590
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 3: conditions for the outrage over the travel ban and for

591
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 3: the deportation or closing the border. I don't know if

592
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 3: that mechanism still exists in the same way. I could

593
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 3: be totally wrong, but I do not see the same organic.

594
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: Level of pushback.

595
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 3: You know, if you scroll my barometer is like normal

596
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 3: friends Instagram stories. I'm not seeing the same stuff about racism,

597
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 3: sexism coming to the Women's March.

598
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 1: Can't believe he did this.

599
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, you remember people were showing up

600
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 3: at Dulles Airport lawyers to try and help people to

601
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 3: go through the travel bank.

602
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't see any that happening.

603
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 3: I don't see you know, Catholic charities and others organizing

604
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 3: to try and help Guatemalans across the border, like all

605
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 3: this infrastructure. ACLU right raised a billion dollars over the

606
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 3: Trump administration. They can file and fight, show me your

607
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 3: ten ninety nine. I don't think that they're raising the

608
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 3: same amounts of money this time. So I just I

609
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 3: think the country's changed. It's been eight years. The level

610
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 3: of trust in the media and all the stuff on

611
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 3: this issue is way down. The reality situation has changed.

612
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 3: And another thing that I guess Trump and JD and

613
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 3: all these other people deserve credit for is they have

614
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 3: stuck to this argument now for a long time, and

615
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 3: I'm they've won in my opinion. Now the Democrats might

616
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 3: be able to you know, if we have maybe I

617
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 3: think the big overreach like what you're talking about would

618
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,719
Speaker 3: be like a mass deportation of DACA. Right, That's an

619
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 3: issue which is definitely on the other side. Absent that

620
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 3: I don't really see it yet. But again, a lot

621
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 3: of this is competence based.

622
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 2: So it's worth remembering that at the height of the

623
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 2: initial George Floyd protests in Minnesota, there was a significant

624
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 2: majority in favor of protesters burning down a police station.

625
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, but again they didn't know what that meant.

626
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 2: But yeah, you're right, well yeah, And that's my point

627
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: is it's one thing to in theory, support something when

628
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: it sounds bloodless and painless, and you've been told that

629
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: this will bring down prices for you and help deal

630
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 2: with housing costs and labor. Sure, you know you'll get

631
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 2: better wages, blah blah blah. It's another thing to see

632
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 2: the human reality of it and what that actually entails,

633
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 2: and especially another thing when you know that human reality

634
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 2: and cruelty ensues and guess what, your life isn't actually better.

635
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: It didn't actually make your wages go up, It didn't

636
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 2: actually make it so that housing was more affordable, or

637
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 2: that other like core material problems you're struggling with with

638
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 2: in your life improve. And then you add to that

639
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 2: the fact that the terriffs are very likely I mean,

640
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: if he institutes anything like what he's talking about, the

641
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 2: terraiffs will be inflationary, and that he doesn't believe he

642
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 2: said this yesterary. He doesn't really believe that inflation was

643
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 2: important to people. He said he thought it was overrated.

644
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 2: He said he thought it was overrated as a problem.

645
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: So he is not taking seriously that the cost of living.

646
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 2: I think cost of living is a core, core concern

647
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 2: for people, core, and so he, I think, is telling

648
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: himself that because that gives him permission to pursue a

649
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 2: terror strategy, which at least in the short term, is

650
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 2: almost certainly going to be inflationary.

651
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 4: So you know, you're right that. I mean, I don't

652
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 4: think if he just did the J.

653
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 2: Six thing and you know, pardon them and then everything

654
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 2: else people liked, like, no, that's not going to sink him.

655
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 2: What I'm saying is that's indicative of a maximist strategy

656
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 2: to overinterpret the mandate and indulge his worst instincts and

657
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 2: worst excesses. And I think it's unlikely that over the

658
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 2: long term it will ultimately be popular.

659
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 4: But gonna We're gonna see.

660
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 2: We uh, you know, he drops this shit coin trump coin,

661
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 2: then the next day he drops a Milania yes shit coin.

662
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: Or maybe she dropped it.

663
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 2: We don't know yet, whatever, it doesn't matter. I mean

664
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 2: he already like just the Milania dropping, the Milania coin

665
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 2: totally undercut the trunk coin, so al right, it dropped

666
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: like what instantly after the Milania thing drops, I saw

667
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: this warning. I don't know, I have to check double

668
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 2: check the numbers on this, but that the Millennia coin

669
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 2: was already down like seventy percent from its peak or something,

670
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 2: you know, Just for so people who aren't crypto people

671
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: understand these meme coins.

672
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 4: They're literally they don't exist. I mean, all it.

673
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 2: Is is is hype. It is a pure ponzi scheme.

674
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: At least with bitcoin, which I'm also not a big

675
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: fan of, But at least with bitcoin there's a story

676
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: about a new technology and using it as actual currency,

677
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 2: you know, for transaction, cross national transactions and frictionless and

678
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 2: not having to deal with government blah blah blah.

679
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 4: At least there's a story.

680
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 2: With these there's no even pretense that this adds anything

681
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 2: valuable or productive to the economy. It's just a total

682
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 2: greater fool cash grap meaning that you buy in with

683
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 2: the hope, in the assumption that there will be people

684
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 2: dumber and more gullible than you, who are going to

685
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 2: come in after you and push the price up so

686
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: that you can be one of the winners. But I mean,

687
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 2: by and large, these are just massive upward transfers of wealth.

688
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 2: The Trump coin eighty percent is held by insiders. The

689
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 2: Milania coin I saw eighty nine percent is held by

690
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 2: a single wallet, So those people are guaranteed to come

691
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 2: out on the positive net winner side. And then all

692
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: of the suckers who not all, but many of the

693
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 2: suckers who get pulled in after are the ones who

694
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 2: will bear real cash losses from purchasing this entirely fake, invented,

695
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 2: bullshit thing.

696
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, I, generally, as people know, I

697
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 3: think it's bad. We have talked how many times on

698
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 3: the show Trump Hotel, Trump super Pack.

699
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: Saying he's going to challenge stop to steal. Yeah, Trump,

700
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: Birch Trump.

701
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 4: This is another level.

702
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 3: Though, Chrystally, you're right, But guess what at a certain point,

703
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 3: this guy's remember a conversation we had before the holiday,

704
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 3: and I was talking about sports gambling and how no

705
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 3: matter how much information I or others put out there

706
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 3: about people getting ripped off about sports gambling that sports

707
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 3: gambling becomes more popular in the United States, even though

708
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 3: you're literally losing if you're placing gambles. At a certain point,

709
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 3: people want to be ripped off, and I just I'm

710
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 3: stopping feeling bad.

711
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: They want they want the fantasy of this soft.

712
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 3: For the consequences. At this point, you guys don't care

713
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 3: about this, then fine, like deal with it. You guys

714
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 3: don't feel bad anymore.

715
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 4: It's just such naked I don't know.

716
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 2: And they want to end stage capitalism, where Like I said, look,

717
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 2: there's tons of fakery in the stock market, right Like

718
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 2: oftentimes stock prices are not really related to like the

719
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 2: value of that company, and a lot of that is

720
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 2: based on hype and.

721
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah blah blah.

722
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: At least there's a story about some product or service

723
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 2: that is being offered that is some sort of a

724
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 2: benefit to humanity. This is just pure theft, cash grab,

725
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 2: And I mean, to me, it's wild that it's legal.

726
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 4: It's wild that this is allowed at all.

727
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: That you can just like invent a fake thing and

728
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 2: steal a bunch of people's money and is perfectly fine.

729
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 2: But this is, I mean, is very similar to what

730
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 2: the hawk Tua chick. No, it's the same shit that

731
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: this lady did. And so now you know again anybody

732
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 2: who doesn't have an issue with this on the Republican side,

733
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 2: like I don't want to hear about your Hunter Biden corruption,

734
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 2: James Biden corruption, Nancy Pelosi. Inside is that is pennies

735
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 2: compared to what we're talking about here Trump. What I mean,

736
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 2: he massively inflated his own network. He is now predominantly

737
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 2: his wealth is from this freaking crypto.

738
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,439
Speaker 3: That's part of why it's absurd is that it's going

739
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,479
Speaker 3: to collapse. So everyone, yeah, oh Trump is worth twenty

740
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 3: five billion. It's like, no, he's worth I don't know

741
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 3: whatever the postcrash price will be, which will be like

742
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 3: zero point one cent. So yes, I guess technically on

743
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 3: paper he's worth twenty five billion or whatever the paper.

744
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 2: The bulk of his wealth is now in the stupid

745
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 2: and trumpp coin.

746
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: I will also say a coin.

747
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 3: A lot of this is Don Junior and Eric too,

748
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 3: who are actually the ones behind. I think it's called

749
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 3: like world liberty financial.

750
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say.

751
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 3: Like I said to you, I think people are enjoying

752
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 3: getting ripped off at a certain point, if you, by

753
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 3: the way, if you're invested in trumpoint, you're fucking idiot.

754
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 3: All right, let's just say it, like, can we all

755
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 3: be honest If you're going online and you're buying.

756
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: Scraped like, you're in moron.

757
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 3: And a lot of the people who do invest in

758
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 3: this stuff do so specifically for speculative purposes, to try

759
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 3: and get in on the idiots who will buy it.

760
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 3: I just no longer I feel exhausted by the conversation now, frankly,

761
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 3: just because it's so obvious to me now in the

762
00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 3: more socially libertarian, isolated America, this is un ironically what

763
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 3: people want. And at a certain point, why try and

764
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 3: protect people from what they want? Like they want to gamble,

765
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 3: they want to play the lottery, they want to buy

766
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 3: trump coin because they think it's funny, or you know,

767
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 3: or ticket to wealth. What are we supposed to do whenever, look,

768
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 3: the argument against Trump has been made, the corruption argument

769
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 3: has happened, It's been plastered all over the news. People

770
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 3: don't give a shit. So it's like what I was

771
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 3: telling you previously. They think that the Democratic Party is

772
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 3: so equally corrupt that their guy is corrupt. But he

773
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 3: does this stuff that they like. I don't think it's

774
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 3: a good thing, but that's what they think. They have

775
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 3: no problem, and so it's a hypocrisy race to the bottom.

776
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 3: And when they hear people who are Democrats Chris Murphy

777
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 3: and I saw on others or criticizing this as like, dude,

778
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 3: you know they're just gonna point to your photo with

779
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 3: Alex Soros and they're gonna say you're equally corrupt. You're

780
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 3: not even wrong absolutely on absolute terms. You know, what

781
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 3: what's Closi worth on paper? One hundred million something like that.

782
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: I mean getting some board seat or whatever. Nothing, nothing

783
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 2: compared to an absolute terms. So just the thing I'm saying,

784
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 2: soccer is first of all, number one. I don't think

785
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 2: that like I can't just throw my hands up because

786
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 2: I think these things are I think corruption is actually

787
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 2: really important.

788
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: And you know they controls like.

789
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 4: You obviously too.

790
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: You did a whole long monologue about your problems with

791
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 2: online gambling, and you may acknowledge like, okay, politically, like

792
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 2: I'm in the minority here, but that didn't stop you

793
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 2: from feeling like it was No. Of course, the argument,

794
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 2: which is my physician here as well, but It's also

795
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 2: like you know, again, if you don't have any smoke

796
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 2: for Trump on don't tell me.

797
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 4: About Pelo season, so you don't care.

798
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 2: You actually don't care, and you are just a total

799
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 2: partisan hack if you have no smoke for Trump on this.

800
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 2: But the only corruption you see is on the Democratic

801
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 2: side because in that hypocrisy race to the bottom, let

802
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 2: me tell you, buddy, he just won because no one

803
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: show me another instance where a politician has managed to

804
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 2: grift tens of billions of dollars off their own primarily

805
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 2: their own supporters, something that is just completely fake.

806
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 3: Again, really say, I mean he actually is able to

807
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 3: realize any of these games, I would be I.

808
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 4: Would be able to realize some of them.

809
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 3: I would bet at best you can realize like maybe

810
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 3: fifty million.

811
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: Like I'm not putting it down, but fifty.

812
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 4: Million, I've been saying amount of money.

813
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, but it's not twenty five million. Look, I'm

814
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: not defending it.

815
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 3: What I'm just saying is it's very clear that the

816
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 3: way that the way that this is all played out,

817
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 3: like Dave Portenoy buying trump coin, pumping trump coin.

818
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: Right, people getting in on this.

819
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 3: I saw a lot of this during the whole robin hood,

820
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 3: you know, gm thing, and now you really see it,

821
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 3: and really what you see it in today is just

822
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 3: gambling people, single game parlays and their willingness and want

823
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 3: they want more gambling products.

824
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,720
Speaker 1: They love to be ripped off.

825
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 3: It's it's the most remarkable thing in the world.

826
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 2: And I love the promise of the possibility of what

827
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 2: it could they want to buy into. Like you know,

828
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 2: fortune favors the brave, and there are of examples of

829
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 2: random people who place the crypto bet at the right

830
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 2: time that they're like, that could be me, that could

831
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 2: be me, and lacking better in some instances, lacking better

832
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 2: prospects or any other real pathway to that sort of

833
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 2: like luxury lifestyle or even being able to just like

834
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,919
Speaker 2: make it and have a normal middle class lifestyle. Yeah,

835
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 2: they're gonna chase They're gonna be susceptible to chase it.

836
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 2: I just I don't know how society survived, truly. I

837
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 2: don't know how a society survives where it is illegal

838
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 2: to just make up money with the explicit purpose of

839
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,879
Speaker 2: robbing people. I mean that's what this is, like, it

840
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 2: is this, It is a pure Ponzi scheme at least

841
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 2: the Ambay people like sell some shit. Right, this doesn't

842
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 2: even have that, Like it doesn't even have the pretense

843
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 2: of that it's just invented. And this is like this

844
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 2: is a core part of the economy.

845
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 3: Like I just know it's not a core part of

846
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 3: the economy. Increasingly it's less than one percent of overall.

847
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 2: This is but this is like a central Also promise

848
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 2: of the Trump administration is like moving more in the dry,

849
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 2: let's have the bitcoin crypto reserve. I don't know, I

850
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 2: just to me, it's such a sign. I mean, first

851
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 2: of all, just the brezonness of Trump, right.

852
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, but also and he is getting away with.

853
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 2: It, but I know he gets away with everything that

854
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 2: what's gotten away with every cares of Trump and also

855
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 2: just like pure societal decline and the end stage capitalism

856
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 2: that it's hard for me to wrap my head around

857
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 2: that it's like actually a real thing.

858
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, I mean, look, historically this is actually

859
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,479
Speaker 3: pretty pretty par for the course. You know, we talked

860
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 3: a lot about yesterday the nineteen hundreds and the way

861
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,879
Speaker 3: that you had literal like robber barons and other people

862
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 3: who would be in power both politically and then also

863
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 3: similarly either involved in.

864
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: Big business or price discrimination, etc.

865
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 3: Just a natural extension of an extremely low trust society.

866
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 3: That's what we're in. You know, if people are trying

867
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 3: to parse the differences of like, oh.

868
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: But Pelosi and all those bad, Oh but.

869
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 3: Trump is bad, and when neither have any credibility on

870
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 3: the issue, they again they just choose like the lesser

871
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 3: of two evils.

872
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 4: I really do.

873
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 2: I saw someone tweetus, and I think this is right.

874
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 2: I think Citizens United really was like the beginning of

875
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 2: the end of any semblance of democracy because I do think,

876
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 2: like you know, effectively, capitalism and democracy very difficult for

877
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 2: the two to coexist, very difficult. If it's going to work,

878
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 2: you're going to have to have some strict controls on

879
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 2: money and politics. And not only do we not have

880
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 2: strict control, we basically have no controls on money in

881
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 2: politics effectively effectively. And yeah, so I mean that's what

882
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 2: you're going to end up with is a bunch of

883
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 2: oligarchs who run the government and get what they want

884
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: and you know, get taxpayer goodies and get the decisions

885
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 2: on AI and crypto and whatever that's going to further

886
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 2: enrich them and screw over working people because they won't

887
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 2: have thebility to join labor unions or organize or fight

888
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 2: back against the AI that's going to come and take

889
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: their jobs. Like that is the natural endpoint of the

890
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 2: system that we set up. And that to your point, Soccer,

891
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 2: that both parties have at this point like wholly embraced space.

892
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 3: But what I can't move away from is that's what

893
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 3: people want. Majority of people are not majority. A huge

894
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 3: portion of households who are Union voted for Trump. It's

895
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 3: just like, okay, well, you know, don't complain. I don't

896
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 3: know what's say like they like him. They don't care

897
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 3: about that an l RB or whatever. They think it's

898
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 3: like bureaucratic bullshit. And then Trump will just you know,

899
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 3: it'll change everything up.

900
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: Okay.

901
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 2: It's not like the other option was really great, No, sure,

902
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 2: but I mean Colin Harris was a terrible candidate, stood

903
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 2: for nothing and barely lost.

904
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say barely.

905
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 3: I mean point seven swing states, yes, point and a half,

906
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 3: but he lost all swepens seven swing states, and importantly,

907
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 3: even within that point and a half. The Democratic the

908
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 3: demographic movement is deeply important for what the future of

909
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 3: that looks like.

910
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: No doubt, and who's left in if.

911
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 4: It continues in that direction.

912
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, nothing is you know, nothing thing in politics

913
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 3: is permanent, et cetera, et cetera. But really what we

914
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 3: are looking at is the new birth of like socially

915
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 3: libertarian America. This is what it looks like like this

916
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 3: is the snake oil salesman era of the early nineteen hundreds.

917
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 3: And I think the trumpe again. If you want to

918
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 3: change that, you have to think about why.

919
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: Is it so popular? I will never understand it.

920
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 3: Why people put their money on FanDuel and look, five

921
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 3: ten dollars is not what we're all worried about here.

922
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 3: We're talking about people who are gambling away their life

923
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 3: savings or if ya, if you put your life savings

924
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 3: in Trump. This is where the bootstrap part of me

925
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 3: comes in. I don't know, you deserve it, I don't

926
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 3: know what Like that's an IQ test, that's social Darwinianism

927
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 3: at a certain point. And what we have got to

928
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 3: is a society that venerates and wants this get rich

929
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 3: quick and all of this. Now there's a lot of

930
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 3: reasons for that. A lot of people in power are responsible,

931
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 3: but let's all so not let people off the hook. Sure,

932
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 3: I like it, And I don't know what to say.

933
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 3: In a country which loves weed and porn and gambling

934
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 3: and you know, is constantly searching for get rick quick stuff,

935
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 3: and they make fun of people like Dave Ramsey and

936
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 3: others who tell them to save their money and put

937
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 3: it in the freaking s and P.

938
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: Five hundred, and they're like, oh, that's.

939
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 3: Boomer shit, even though that's like the greatest return that

940
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 3: you probably could have ever asked for compared to the

941
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 3: idiot stuff that you're doing. I mean, like, people have

942
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 3: a choice, their individual responsibility and wishes are a thing.

943
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: This is what they want.

944
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, I don't want to deny people individual agency

945
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 2: for their decisions. But when you have a mass societal trend,

946
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 2: then you have to ask what is contrued, what are

947
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 2: the underlying economic, social, political conditions that are leading to

948
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,240
Speaker 2: that trend, because they don't just come out of nowhere.

949
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 2: And my contention would be that in an era of

950
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,240
Speaker 2: mass inequality the likes of which we have never seen

951
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: in human history, where you know, the price of goods

952
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 2: that are required in order to obtain like just a

953
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 2: basic middle class life have been going up and up

954
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 2: and up, for decades. And you know, also there's a

955
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 2: lot of cultural trends. I mean, you do see like

956
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 2: the valorization of the businessman who breaks the rules but

957
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 2: gets away with it and gets rich and gets the

958
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 2: girl and whatever.

959
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 4: Like there's the social cultural trends as well.

960
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 2: But yeah, that leads a lot of people to be

961
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 2: very susceptible to mythology about you know, whether it's how

962
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 2: Trump is going to save them and they put all

963
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 2: their trust in him and that's part of you know,

964
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 2: that parlays right into this crypto theft high scheme, or

965
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 2: if it's trust in like this is this is my shot.

966
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 4: This is my lot of ticket to be able to

967
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 4: make it to the good life.

968
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:52,760
Speaker 3: I don't disagree necessarily, I just sometimes have to, like truly,

969
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 3: I mean I think about this with lead, I think

970
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 3: about this with porn.

971
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: I think about this with gambling. These are massively popular services.

972
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 3: I could show people all the social research in the

973
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 3: world that will show this is so bad for you.

974
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 3: If you live your life the opposite to this, you

975
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 3: will be better off.

976
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: They don't want to do it. They like it.

977
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 3: It's like I can and look, we're not a dictatorship.

978
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 3: You can't control people. And yes, there's a lot of

979
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 3: people who what there's a lot of you know, economic reasons,

980
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 3: et cetera and all that, but a lot of it

981
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 3: is cultural, a lot of is familial.

982
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,240
Speaker 1: And I think we're gone. I mean, I think we've long.

983
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 3: Passed moved what that even looks like in terms of

984
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 3: what that everything will look like for a fix. I

985
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 3: don't think Donald Trump is going to fix it. I

986
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 3: don't even think it's literally possible. I think maybe he

987
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 3: could usher in an age where we ask bigger questions

988
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 3: in a society. Maybe more of you will be able

989
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 3: to grapple with bigger questions and other stuff, and with

990
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,720
Speaker 3: media and the new environment. But you know, in the interim,

991
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 3: there's just there's this is the you know, the this

992
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 3: is the celebration. And you know, it's just funny every

993
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 3: time I talk about gambling or whatever, narc you're a

994
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 3: nerd weed, same thing, porn.

995
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: You know, they start laughing when we talk about all

996
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:06,359
Speaker 1: these things.

997
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 4: Uh.

998
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 3: And and they they will fight to the death for

999
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 3: their right to consume the things that are bad for them.

1000
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: And you know, look at prohibition. Prohibition was a good idea.

1001
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 3: Sorry, it's true, people were drunk and they were beating

1002
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 3: their wives, and the women are the ones who wanted it,

1003
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 3: and then they got it overturned because they just want

1004
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 3: to be drunk all the time. It's like, okay, you know,

1005
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 3: at a certain point, you just got to give people

1006
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 3: what they want.

1007
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: It.

1008
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 4: Also, we don't have to fight about prohibition today.

1009
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 2: But you know, I mean it led to a massive

1010
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 2: increase in crime, and organized gang.

1011
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 3: Was also the great suppression, but people conveniently leave that

1012
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 3: out of the story.

1013
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 4: True.

1014
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, like in terms of what the where a lot

1015
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 3: of the crime and all that came. One of the

1016
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 3: main reasons they brought it back is needed a tax revenue. Ironically, Yes, yeah,

1017
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 3: it's if we think about it with all of the

1018
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 3: stuff that's super popular today and look at male culture,

1019
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 3: look at what young people, dudes and all that are

1020
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 3: looking at. I think there's a lot of economic reasons

1021
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 3: for it, but I also think it's a huge cultural

1022
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 3: component to all of this. And uh, the more the

1023
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 3: more I see of how it is not only dominated

1024
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 3: but has become overwhelmingly popular, the less optimistic I am

1025
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 3: that anything is ever going to change.

1026
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 1: Do you need anything?

1027
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 3: Oh?

1028
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you guys could bring me some.

1029
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 1: Water whenever, control room. Can we get water in here? Please?

1030
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:23,240
Speaker 4: But we can go ahead and a fight about Elon

1031
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 4: now if you like.

1032
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 3: Oh, oh okay, all right, sure let me let me

1033
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 3: finish this coffee then.

1034
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 2: So a huge controversy broke out yesterday over whether or

1035
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 2: not Elon Musk did a Nazi salute like a whole

1036
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 2: pile Hitler situation during one of his speeches.

1037
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 4: The explanations will show you the video, let me before

1038
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 4: I give you.

1039
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 2: The explanations, and Sager will give you his explanation. I

1040
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 2: want you guys to be able to see the video

1041
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 2: for yourselves, and then we can we can discuss.

1042
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: And I just want to say thank you for making

1043
00:48:58,680 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 1: it happen.

1044
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1045
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 4: So that's it.

1046
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:11,280
Speaker 2: So immediately people were like, that looks like a Nazi salute.

1047
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 3: You don't think so, okay, if every time someone raises

1048
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:18,720
Speaker 3: their hand like that, is it a Nazi salute?

1049
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:20,760
Speaker 1: It comes down to intention.

1050
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 3: Yes, do we believe that Elon Musk is a literal

1051
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 3: Nazi who is intentionally zeg hiling, or do we have

1052
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 3: a high functioning autistic weirdo who, if you watch the

1053
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 3: full video, is spastically dancing like this on stage and

1054
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 3: unable to control all of his movements, and also did

1055
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,760
Speaker 3: some weird like my heart is with you type gesture.

1056
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 3: Which of those two things do you think is more accurate?

1057
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 3: I don't think it takes a genius to figure this out. Well,

1058
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 3: so that's why the controversy go over. This is so

1059
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 3: it's so twenty seventeen to me. Oh, it's like whenever

1060
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,359
Speaker 3: this was supposed to be racist, do you remember that,

1061
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 3: and people were like, oh, this is right, Okay, go

1062
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 3: ahead and screen grab it.

1063
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 1: Call me a racist. I don't fucking care. This stuff

1064
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 1: is stupid. It's twenty twenty five. We've been through all

1065
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: of this. I find this whole thing exhaustingly. I would

1066
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 1: be Are we saying Elon is a Nazi?

1067
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 2: Uh?

1068
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1069
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 2: But I mean I would be more inclined to give

1070
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 2: him the benefit of the doubt if he didn't. My

1071
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 2: Twitter timeline after he took over is like and I

1072
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 2: think it would agree filled with literal Nazis, who he occasionally,

1073
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 2: not that infrequently, makes a point of agreeing with, and

1074
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 2: you know, and elevating backs the AfD in German.

1075
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 3: Game AFT is not Nazi is a legitimate pl So

1076
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 3: are you saying that all the people who voted for

1077
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 3: their Nazis in Germany, like I'm just.

1078
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 2: Saying Sager in terms, that's no plausible deniability. That is

1079
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 2: the most real, that is the most reactionary party in Germany.

1080
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 2: Part of it, the wing of it is actually banned

1081
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 2: because of their extremism, tied to like video.

1082
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: Nazi, because they have insane laws on the books.

1083
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 2: So when you talk about like you said, okay, it

1084
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 2: comes down to intent, true. Yeah, what I'm offering is

1085
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 2: that there is enough evidence of this white South African

1086
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 2: who is very.

1087
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 4: Comfortable and very.

1088
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 2: Very comfortable obviously elevating Nazis on Twitter, very comfortable using

1089
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 2: a lot of the rhetoric about like birth rates and

1090
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 2: population decline and invasion et cetera, et cetera, and that

1091
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,479
Speaker 2: you know, is a backer of the furthest right, most

1092
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 2: reactionary parties in Germany itself. That you know, look, the

1093
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 2: people who think that this was a Nazi salute are

1094
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 2: pretty much everybody left of center, and actual Nazis also

1095
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 2: were like, that's our guy.

1096
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: I just can't believe.

1097
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 4: I just can't believe that.

1098
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 2: You know, I'm supposed to believe that the smartest man

1099
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 2: on the planet. This brilliant genius doesn't know what he's

1100
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 2: doing in this situation, Like come.

1101
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:53,439
Speaker 3: On, yeah, but don't we also know he's a fucking

1102
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 3: idiot at times, and just like anybody moving around does

1103
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 3: weird socially awkward stuff, like maybe a guy named Ewon

1104
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,879
Speaker 3: who's at did like this for his entire life.

1105
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 2: If he hadn't dabbled in Nazi ideology, I would be but.

1106
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: I can't say talking about birth rates is Nazi idio.

1107
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 4: And then the other thing, yea, why is a.

1108
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 3: Guy who's a Nazi advocating for more unrestricted h one

1109
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 3: b Indian visas at his company? That's like pretty right,

1110
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 3: So that kind of conflicts a little bit with racialist ideology.

1111
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: This just gets to the whole election.

1112
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 3: Everybody's tried this shit before, Nazism, birth rates, if you

1113
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:27,720
Speaker 3: care about immigration, it's been totally rejected at the ballot box.

1114
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 3: People who are predominantly black and Hispanic are the majority

1115
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 3: new entrance to the Trump coalition, specifically on behalf of

1116
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 3: this terms have meaning.

1117
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 1: Elon is not look and people here.

1118
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 3: No, I'm not some Elon fanboy. I hate community notes.

1119
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 3: Twitter has gotten way more annoying ever.

1120
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 1: Since we used it.

1121
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 3: The reason why I think Nazis get elevated on your

1122
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 3: Twitter feed is because the algorithm is designed to piss

1123
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 3: you off.

1124
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:56,839
Speaker 1: And you know what I get too on mine?

1125
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:00,359
Speaker 3: I get a bunch of shithead leftists who are constantstantly

1126
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 3: bitching about race or whatever because that's what makes me

1127
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 3: mad or trans bullshit.

1128
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: That's That's what I'm trying to say.

1129
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 3: So like saying the right wing reaction to your part

1130
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 3: AfD believes in less immigration for Germany, that's not Nazi.

1131
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 3: Talking about birth rates that's not Nazi. Saying that people

1132
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 3: who care about those issues are Nazi adjacent is the

1133
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 3: same thing as tagging people like you have your beliefs

1134
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 3: and saying it's communists ludicrous. That's not communism to believe

1135
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 3: in a fire department. Oh, that's collectivism, which is part

1136
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:37,240
Speaker 3: of Karl Marx. Again, like these terms are clear, delineated.

1137
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 3: People naturally understand that when we say Nazi is a

1138
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 3: very specific connotation meaning intent, belief policy. Do we really

1139
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 3: believe that Elon has that? There is no evidence for

1140
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:54,240
Speaker 3: it unless you seek that interpretation. I just made about

1141
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 3: drawing any sort of like socialist or what any sort

1142
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 3: of democratic socialist belief and.

1143
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: Saying you're full blown Marxist. I mean, you know that

1144
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 1: we don't talk like that here. Why does it apply

1145
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: to Nazism?

1146
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it sure looks like a Nazi salute

1147
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 2: and he's dabbled in Nazi ideology?

1148
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: Well, what does that mean? Does Nazi?

1149
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 2: I would be very much more willing to give him

1150
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:17,839
Speaker 2: the benefit of the doubt if not for that and

1151
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 2: the fact that he did it twice and the fact

1152
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 2: that a bunch of Nazis think that it was enough.

1153
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: What is what does Nazi ideology?

1154
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:24,879
Speaker 3: Has Elon proposed saying that we have to care about

1155
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 3: birth rates and we want less immigration?

1156
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: That's not Nazi pomic.

1157
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 2: All this conversation about yeah, birthrate and civilization, cline and

1158
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 2: invasions and you know, racializing crime, all of these things

1159
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 2: are adjacent.

1160
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,919
Speaker 3: So but that's like saying social democratic socialism is Marxism's

1161
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 3: Is that adjacent to communism?

1162
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: Obviously? Yeah, kind of.

1163
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 4: I think this man knows what he's doing.

1164
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:46,879
Speaker 1: No, I don't.

1165
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 2: I absolutely think this man knows what he's doing. And so,

1166
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 2: you know, look, do I think that people are going

1167
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:54,919
Speaker 2: to care? Do I think it is? Does feel sort

1168
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 2: of like you know, twenty seventeen ish and like kind

1169
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 2: of cringe or whatever. Yeah, but guess but sometimes things

1170
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 2: that are popular are bad.

1171
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 4: Sometimes things that are popular like.

1172
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 2: Actually genuinely evil, And that is not going to stop

1173
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 2: me from speaking out against things that I think are

1174
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:14,760
Speaker 2: wrong and extremism that I think has been welcomed back

1175
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 2: into political discourse. And yeah, I do think AfD is

1176
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,359
Speaker 2: an extremist party. I think his backing of that, I mean,

1177
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 2: his dabbling in the UK political situation, like he's going

1178
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 2: further than Nigel Farage even as willing to go in

1179
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 2: terms of, you know, backing Tommy Robinson who was an

1180
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 2: explicit racist islamophobe who was in prison for like you know,

1181
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:43,879
Speaker 2: like horrifically smearing this teenage kid and lying about him.

1182
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 4: And so yeah, I don't.

1183
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 2: Think it's crazy to think that like this is a

1184
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 2: signal that he's throwing out there and give himself enough

1185
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 2: plausebul deniability. I think that is what's going on.

1186
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 3: I just think it's I honestly think that's ridiculous, like

1187
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:58,399
Speaker 3: to say that is an intentional zeg kile salute. I mean,

1188
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 3: by the way, has it been beneficial to the Trump Movement,

1189
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 3: or Elon Musk or Tesla or even his other companies.

1190
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 3: I mean, I think the guy is just spastic and weird.

1191
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 3: Anybody I know who's ever met Elon No no, I

1192
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 3: was gonna say Roman salute if we all want to talk, right,

1193
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,839
Speaker 3: as an Indian, Actually, you know, this is something that's

1194
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:22,800
Speaker 3: always pissed me off, is that Hitler appropriated various different

1195
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 3: symbols that have now become conflated with Nazism. So, for example,

1196
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 3: many Hindus, a lot of white tourists.

1197
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 1: When they go to India, they're.

1198
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 3: Like, why are there so many Nazi swastikas over here?

1199
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,240
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, it turns out as an ancient Hindu symbol.

1200
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 3: It's the other way, and the swastika is you know,

1201
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 3: something that has nothing to do with that. In India

1202
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 3: and India they are very able to say, yeah, actually

1203
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 3: it's ancient Hindu symbol and yes not to hugest. So

1204
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 3: we're not just gonna let people tart and will actually

1205
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 3: continue to paint it on temple floors, put it all over.

1206
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 1: And we're just gonna continue with the Roman salute.

1207
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 3: The quote unquote zeke Kile was literally appropriated from the

1208
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 3: ancient Roman salute, which is famous in any of these statues. Now,

1209
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 3: I am I gonna go around Zeghiland or Roman saluting?

1210
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:04,879
Speaker 1: No? Well.

1211
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 4: Also, the Roman salute apparently was not a real thing.

1212
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 2: It was like made up movies and then adopted by

1213
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:12,319
Speaker 2: fascist that's right.

1214
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 3: It was appropriated by fascist ideology in the early nineteen hundreds,

1215
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 3: specifically Mussolini, Oswald Mosley and others, because they were trying,

1216
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 3: specifically Mussolini as well, to try and bring back this

1217
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 3: idea of like Romanism and greatness to the Italian Empire,

1218
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 3: which also Hitler was greatly influenced by in the nineteen twenties.

1219
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 3: But again with Elon, with all of this Nazism and

1220
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 3: calling someone a Nazi or even implying all this stuff

1221
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 3: around people is in my opinion, a huge reason why

1222
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 3: the cultural left has so much less credibility and the

1223
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 3: media today, Like you have to ask people very basic

1224
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 3: questions like I just said, do you think this person

1225
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 3: is a Nazi?

1226
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: Like I just don't. Look, maybe you do.

1227
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 3: I don't think that that's the case at all. And

1228
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 3: to get there you have to do what you know,

1229
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 3: all this mental gymnastics about adjacent and see, which I

1230
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 3: find just is annoying when right wingers say this about

1231
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 3: any social democratic thing and say that's literal stalinesque communists.

1232
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 1: I would say the same thing.

1233
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 2: I think I think he and I think Trump are

1234
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 2: like I think this administration is a fascist administration. Like

1235
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 2: we've had, I mean, we've had this debate before. But

1236
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:20,480
Speaker 2: if you look at the definition, and especially with the

1237
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 2: merging of you know, the richest man in the world

1238
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 2: and the business with the government and you know, I mean,

1239
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 2: we have a raft of executive orders that are enlisting

1240
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 2: the military in draconian border policies like you know, not

1241
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 2: to be whatever. But like you said, words do have meaning,

1242
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 2: and if you look through the definition, yeah, I think

1243
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 2: I think it fits. I think that I do think

1244
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 2: that this is a fascist administration that at its core

1245
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 2: that is in power. I think Elon is obviously a

1246
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 2: key part of that.

1247
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 4: So that's what I would say.

1248
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I just think this will go on forever.

1249
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 3: But I mean again, it's like it's deeply within the

1250
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 3: American context, which I don't think has always been core.

1251
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 1: I mean fascist.

1252
00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 2: The American context is Florida with fascism in the paw

1253
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 2: so I don't.

1254
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 4: It's not Americas as.

1255
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 3: Long as it's being qualified, like that's fine, But it's

1256
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 3: like again, like terms I think are important, and I

1257
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 3: also think they should be reserved for extraordinary things. So

1258
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 3: if we had Reichstag fires, false flags, militarization, end of government,

1259
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 3: and then the fusing of the economy and the state,

1260
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 3: then sure, I'll talk about fascism until that, as long

1261
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 3: as there's a court system and what Congress, which can

1262
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 3: frequently and often does change, and a democratic populace it

1263
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 3: frequently changes its mind and has the ability.

1264
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 1: To have pushback, et cetera.

1265
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 3: Like to say they're living in fascist countries frankly insane.

1266
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 3: I mean, you can say that there's fascist tendencies or

1267
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 3: would want to be you know, fine, I mean think

1268
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 3: all of those are okay, but.

1269
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 4: I think it would want to be.

1270
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 2: And you know, this is what I've expressed for a

1271
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 2: while that I think this administration, because there are no

1272
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 2: real checks left, because there are no real guardrails left,

1273
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 2: will be able to more fully exercise those tendencies this

1274
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 2: time around. And you know, I think there's already some

1275
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 2: significant signs of that.

1276
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1277
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:15,440
Speaker 3: I mean, like again, if we're using the idea of

1278
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 3: executive power or use.

1279
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 1: To the military or whatever.

1280
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 3: If that's always fascist, then that erases the meaning. No,

1281
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 3: but if that's the tendency, then it erases the meaning

1282
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 3: of that, and then that means then that FDR, who

1283
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 3: often did many of the same things that Trump is

1284
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 3: currently doing, actually far more in terms of his executive power.

1285
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 2: Fascism is explicitly right wing.

1286
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 1: No, not necessarily, No, he started out as.

1287
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 2: A social definition of fascism. Any basic definition that you

1288
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 2: would look up online with just one of the descriptors.

1289
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:47,160
Speaker 4: Would be far right.

1290
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 3: Well, it's difficult, and that's more because of a connotative

1291
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 3: with the Hitlerism. If we actually look and study like

1292
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 3: the history of fascism with Italy, a lot of it

1293
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 3: started out as is left wing that got fused with nationalism.

1294
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 3: Kind of beside, the point issue is not about right

1295
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 3: wing per se.

1296
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 1: It's we're talking about tendencies.

1297
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 3: Like the reason why you're using the term is because

1298
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 3: of actions like military or executive order. Those are standard

1299
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 3: executive powers under the American imperial presidency.

1300
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 1: Well again.

1301
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 2: To the stenship, which is part of the constitution, is

1302
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 2: not a standard.

1303
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 1: Executive Okay, But if it gets struck invoking.

1304
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 4: The Foreign Enemies Act? Is that what it's called foreign?

1305
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Alien Enemies Act, which is what was used

1306
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 2: to justify Japanese internment and has never been used in

1307
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 2: this context. Like, that's not an ordinary executive order. So

1308
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 2: you know, I mean these and and again partly this

1309
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 2: will play on in terms of how far to Strump

1310
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 2: want to go because if some of these things do

1311
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,040
Speaker 2: get struck down by the Supreme Court, and which is

1312
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:47,919
Speaker 2: no guarantee, because the Supreme Court is more or less

1313
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 2: on his side at this point, and he's like, I

1314
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 2: don't care, I'm doing it anyway.

1315
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 4: I don't you think that that's a possible buility he.

1316
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 3: Does that, then that would be Ah, do I think

1317
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 3: it's a possibility honestly?

1318
01:01:57,800 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 1: No, especially on birthday because.

1319
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 4: When we talked about earlier, you said you thought it.

1320
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 3: Was possible, no the birthright students. I said, yeah, anything

1321
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 3: is possible. But like, do I think that that's the

1322
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 3: most likely outcome?

1323
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 1: Absolutely not.

1324
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 3: No, I mean there's no evidence of that previously. Now

1325
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:13,840
Speaker 3: you know this, I mean even the whole Andrew Jackson thing,

1326
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:16,959
Speaker 3: Like we really think that's gonna fly like today, So look,

1327
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 3: we're going to base it back, and this I have

1328
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 3: no idea. Also the political utility of this, because Nazism itself,

1329
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 3: I think is commonly understood to mean what I think

1330
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 3: it means, and so when the term is misappropriated and

1331
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 3: applied as it was to Donald Trump and then rejected

1332
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 3: at the ballot box, it causes a loss of credibility

1333
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 3: in media, and also really make also makes it more

1334
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 3: difficult if you want to criticize actual Nazis about a

1335
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 3: lot of this stuff. So conflation makes it more difficult

1336
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 3: to have nuance or even interesting conversation around any of

1337
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 3: these issues. And I really think this is the democratic

1338
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 3: socialist communist argument is the perfect one. Do you know

1339
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 3: how many people called FDR communists back in his time?

1340
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 3: Do I think he's a communist?

1341
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 1: No?

1342
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 3: But the reason why was because any sort of social

1343
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 3: government or any of that, even if it's supported.

1344
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 4: By the people. Let me ask you this.

1345
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 2: So Trump calls people like Kamala Harrison whatever communists all

1346
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 2: the time, Yeah, all the time?

1347
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: How many times? I say you don't?

1348
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 2: But do you think do you think that has caused

1349
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 2: him a loss of credibility? Do you think that that's

1350
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 2: to diminish his standing?

1351
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah.

1352
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 1: That's a good question.

1353
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 3: Actually, I mean, honestly, don't you think kind of has

1354
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 3: with a lot of people, because we've talked a lot about.

1355
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 4: This in the fact to work for him pretty well,

1356
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:33,440
Speaker 4: to be honest with you, No, but.

1357
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:34,960
Speaker 3: We've talked in the past how they used to say

1358
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 3: that about Joe Biden, and most people didn't believe Joe Biden.

1359
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure he called Kamala a fascist and a communist.

1360
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 3: Don't know, and called Republicans always called Democrats communists.

1361
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 2: And that's why I think it is like there's so

1362
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 2: much smoke for people being like Trump's a fascist and

1363
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 2: here's why, and here's the reasons.

1364
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 4: But when he.

1365
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 2: Does it, and when Republicans constantly do it all the time,

1366
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:00,439
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, that's fine, it doesn't cost their cause

1367
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 2: a loss of credit.

1368
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 1: Right, Like that doesn't mean you should play the same game.

1369
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 2: Now I'm not the same game because when I like,

1370
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 2: it's like the idea that Kamala Harris as a communist

1371
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 2: is so preposterous.

1372
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 4: The like, if you look.

1373
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 2: At the definition of fascism, you know, far right, ultranationalist,

1374
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 2: militaristic off in a ligne directly, like, you know, co

1375
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 2: opting large parts of big business.

1376
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 4: I think there's a pretty reasonable case to be made.

1377
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 4: One may disagree, and you are fair.

1378
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 2: It's perfectly fine for you to disagree, and we've had

1379
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 2: this disagreement before.

1380
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:33,080
Speaker 4: It's cetera, et cetera.

1381
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:34,920
Speaker 2: But I do feel the way you do of like

1382
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 2: well wards top meaning, and this seems to fit the

1383
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:39,960
Speaker 2: you know, fit to a te pretty close.

1384
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 1: But I made an awkward movement. I mean, that's where

1385
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 1: I'm just looking.

1386
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:44,680
Speaker 4: An awkward movement.

1387
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 3: Part of the reason why I feel and hate this

1388
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 3: whole conversation is just so fucking stupid in my opinion, Like, look,

1389
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I don't think most

1390
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 3: people think Elan is a Nazi, So you know, like

1391
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 3: what are we doing here. We're analyzing the movement of

1392
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 3: Elon because it's like an autistic, spastic weird though, Like

1393
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 3: if an autistic kid did that at a celebration for

1394
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 3: a school, what do you think we would all think?

1395
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 1: We're like, oh, you know.

1396
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:08,919
Speaker 4: It's like its ablest. I'm being ableist right.

1397
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 3: Now, I guess, yeah, good question, that's that's perfect. We

1398
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:15,760
Speaker 3: should Elon is neurodiversion that's what all of you people

1399
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 3: are not.

1400
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 4: I'm sorry his.

1401
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 3: Neurodivergence has his neurodiversence is not being appropriately applied to

1402
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 3: the context within all of this.

1403
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 4: I just well, the ADL agree, Why it's.

1404
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 1: So important, Well, that's where the ADL is currying favor

1405
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 1: with power.

1406
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:34,040
Speaker 3: Okay, that's a different story the ADL.

1407
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead and put the ADL thing up, because

1408
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 2: at least then we can end by both shitting on

1409
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:42,520
Speaker 2: the ADL. They you know, this is the group that

1410
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 2: if you do a rally chant that they don't like,

1411
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 2: it's a hate crime. If you wear a cafia, it's

1412
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:52,920
Speaker 2: an anti Semitic attack. I mean, we showed you, showed

1413
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 2: you the move. Soger disagrees. It does look many people

1414
01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 2: are saying though it does look like sighail. It does

1415
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 2: look like it. But the ADL no smoke for Elon.

1416
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:06,439
Speaker 2: Of course, this is a delicate moment. It's a new day,

1417
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:09,479
Speaker 2: so many are on edge. Politics are inflamed, and social

1418
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 2: media only adds the anxiety. It seems that Elon Musk

1419
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 2: made an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm, not

1420
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 2: a Nazi salute. But again, we appreciate that people are

1421
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 2: on edge in this moment. All sides should give one

1422
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 2: another a bit of grace, perhaps even the benefit of doubt,

1423
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 2: and take a breath. This is a new beginning. Let's

1424
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 2: hope for healing and worked or unity in the months

1425
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 2: and years ahead. I mean curring favor with power number one.

1426
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,880
Speaker 2: Number two, I mean Elon supports the Israeli genocide and

1427
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:39,160
Speaker 2: kaza and that's probably their primary goal and concern. So

1428
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 2: if you're good on that, then you can do whatever

1429
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:43,920
Speaker 2: else else you know you want, And you're pretty much

1430
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 2: going to be good to go with regard to the ADL.

1431
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:47,960
Speaker 1: No one can accuse me hypocrisy on the ADL issue.

1432
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 3: Ironically, if you recall, Elon was heavily against the ADL

1433
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 3: back in the day. But the ADL wants to keep

1434
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 3: curry themselves up with power with the Trump administration with Elon,

1435
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 3: I think they correc see this as like this, you know,

1436
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 3: kind of like Twitter type controversy media thing that doesn't

1437
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 3: have any actual influence or whatever, and they want to

1438
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 3: stay cozied up like Miriam Aidelson is one of their

1439
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 3: biggest donors, right, and they want access and continued ability

1440
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:22,479
Speaker 3: to influence us censorship and power, and so within all

1441
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 3: of this context it makes perfect sense. And yes, I

1442
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 3: agree they're total hypocrites because in the past this is

1443
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 3: exactly the type of thing that they would have latched

1444
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 3: onto and they have frequently derided.

1445
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 2: In Well, if it was a college kid doing the

1446
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:40,200
Speaker 2: same thing, you know, at a you know, college kid

1447
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 2: with aspergers doing the same thing, I agree with that

1448
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 2: at a pro That's why I think both are bad.

1449
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:47,479
Speaker 3: They would you know, I mean, there's plenty of screen

1450
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 3: grabs Crystal of people in Kefia's doing Zhile's Like should

1451
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:53,960
Speaker 3: we take them seriously or do I correctly see? Like, Okay, yeah,

1452
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,560
Speaker 3: there's some real anti Semites who are probably doing this.

1453
01:07:56,560 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 3: The vast majority of people who I know who are

1454
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 3: pro pal sign are not anti Semitic. You're just horrified

1455
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 3: by the action. I think the same thing with Elon.

1456
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 3: That's what I'm trying to say. I'm giving people a

1457
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 3: benefit of the doubt here, like and not even benefit

1458
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:09,760
Speaker 3: of the doubt, but just like exparsing the overall thing

1459
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 3: and then trying to cast it correctly for what the

1460
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 3: core motivation is, Like, are this the core motivation for

1461
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:16,559
Speaker 3: Donald Trump?

1462
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:17,120
Speaker 1: Every day?

1463
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 3: When it gets up to be a fascist, hitlarian dictator,

1464
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 3: Like no, is this core motivation for the people who

1465
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 3: support Elon or even Elon himself. Elon, all he cares

1466
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:29,559
Speaker 3: about is making more money. That's not fascist, you know.

1467
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 3: If anything, it's as American tale, as old as time

1468
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:36,440
Speaker 3: is to try and to curry favor with the incoming administration.

1469
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 3: So anyway, I just I really don't think that this

1470
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:42,680
Speaker 3: does any service to good discourse to politics. And I

1471
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 3: think most people who see this stuff rightfully think it's

1472
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:47,560
Speaker 3: just so stupid bullshit, and I think it loses a

1473
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:51,720
Speaker 3: lot of credibility honestly, people like the media CNN and

1474
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,720
Speaker 3: others like Pushing trying to turn this into a thing

1475
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 3: like it just feels exactly like so many of those

1476
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:01,920
Speaker 3: Trump controversies which Push pushed actively pushed a lot of

1477
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:02,760
Speaker 3: people away from me.

1478
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:06,200
Speaker 4: You know, I would have agreed with obviously.

1479
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 2: I do think he knew what he was doing here,

1480
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 2: So we'll put that to aid the side. I actually

1481
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 2: would have maybe agreed with that point previously. But then

1482
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:16,360
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, the Republican Trump like they do that

1483
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 2: shit all the time. Call every fascist, send me the

1484
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,879
Speaker 2: people like communists, blah, blah blah, and.

1485
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 4: Doesn't seem to have hurt them too much.

1486
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:29,320
Speaker 2: He's he said way more like extreme insane things about

1487
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris than she ever said about him and her

1488
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:34,679
Speaker 2: like when she made the case he was a fascist,

1489
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 2: which by the way, is not just something I said,

1490
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:38,400
Speaker 2: It's something that people like Mark Milly, who served with

1491
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 2: him also said. The reason the reason, Yeah, well, at

1492
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:44,840
Speaker 2: least he was there to be like, let's not shoot

1493
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:47,680
Speaker 2: protesters in the likes, which is also a behavior I

1494
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 2: believe of a you know, a fascist inclined individual. But

1495
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 2: in any case, that was the context of which that

1496
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 2: came up.

1497
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:59,679
Speaker 4: And Trump has like called her every name in the book.

1498
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 4: So the idea that like, oh, you were too.

1499
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 2: Mean to him and that's why you didn't have that,

1500
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 2: I just don't buy it.

1501
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 4: I don't buy it. I just don't think that that's

1502
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:09,439
Speaker 4: the lesson of this election.

1503
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:13,000
Speaker 2: When the guy who was the most obnoxious and the

1504
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:16,320
Speaker 2: meanest and the most divisive and the most playing to

1505
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 2: this like tribal in group out group mentality, that's the

1506
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 2: guy that won. So I'm just not you know, I'm

1507
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 2: not as persuaded by that point as I perhaps would

1508
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 2: have once been.

1509
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:27,840
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a bad point.

1510
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 3: I think the reason why it is hypocritical fundamentally is

1511
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 3: that right wing culture kind of itself is basically right

1512
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 3: wing culture, and criticism of the mainstream is still seen

1513
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:47,559
Speaker 3: as insurgent, and thus is one where paying the price

1514
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:50,080
Speaker 3: and the you know, the checking action like what you're

1515
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:53,479
Speaker 3: talking about is not one which is going to land

1516
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 3: similarly with that audience, as opposed to when Trump says

1517
01:10:57,720 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 3: so and so is a communist. And I mean, look,

1518
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:01,439
Speaker 3: I'm how many times have I said here before. I

1519
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 3: think calling people communists is stupid. I think calling Bernie

1520
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:06,800
Speaker 3: a communist and all that is foolish. He should actually

1521
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:10,120
Speaker 3: debate these things on their merits and actually dive into them,

1522
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:12,120
Speaker 3: and that you know, if we stoop to the oh

1523
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:15,439
Speaker 3: this is Marxist, oh this is socialist stuff, you actually

1524
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 3: lose any ability to win over somebody who was a

1525
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:21,240
Speaker 3: Bernie Sanders order. But you know what, maybe you're right

1526
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 3: because Trump called Kamma and all of them communists and

1527
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:23,920
Speaker 3: he wanted tell me.

1528
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 1: And he called her a fascists.

1529
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:29,240
Speaker 2: Yeah he I mean, all all of these things were said.

1530
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:33,120
Speaker 2: So I think it matters a lot about Listen, I

1531
01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:37,800
Speaker 2: mean Trump is also able to get away with things

1532
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:41,000
Speaker 2: that people other people aren't. Yes, true, But the thing

1533
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 2: Derek Thompson when we had him on said about how

1534
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:49,880
Speaker 2: it wrote in his piece about how Trump really capitalized

1535
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:55,759
Speaker 2: on the social media all tribe no village dynamic where

1536
01:11:56,600 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 2: everything is about just like tribal in group out group signaling.

1537
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 2: And so it wasn't that he won in spite of

1538
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 2: calling Kamala a communist and a fascist and an enemy of.

1539
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 4: The people or whatever. It's in part because of that.

1540
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:15,639
Speaker 2: I think that that is I think that's an important insight.

1541
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:18,600
Speaker 2: It's a bad insight, like it's bad for politics and

1542
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:24,040
Speaker 2: it's bad for the future, et cetera. But I you know,

1543
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:27,679
Speaker 2: I don't think that he's necessarily wrong about that.

1544
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:30,080
Speaker 4: That he knows how.

1545
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:33,800
Speaker 2: Politics is inherently divisive, and this is something Democrats are

1546
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:37,799
Speaker 2: stupid and run away from, right they are so afraid

1547
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 2: of conflict and whatever or like, can't make a decision,

1548
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:46,280
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. Trump sees this as a divisive conflict

1549
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:49,120
Speaker 2: and he is going to draw the lines of that

1550
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 2: divide and aggressively so and unrelentingly so. And so that's

1551
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,439
Speaker 2: why because he is the person who shaped that divide

1552
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:03,320
Speaker 2: and drew the line and enforced it in the most aggressive,

1553
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 2: vigorous way you possibly could. He's the victor and so

1554
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:12,200
Speaker 2: so yeah, I think you know that doesn't mean that,

1555
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:14,759
Speaker 2: like it was the best argument for Hi for Kamla

1556
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 2: to make about like fascism or whatever. But I think

1557
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:22,680
Speaker 2: that central insight of like, you have to have a

1558
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:24,920
Speaker 2: device of politics, you have to draw the divide in

1559
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:27,240
Speaker 2: a way that is politically beneficial to you. I think

1560
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:28,920
Speaker 2: Trump understands that. Nooid JOm Croston.

1561
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:31,400
Speaker 1: I let's end it on that, because I totally agree.

1562
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:33,800
Speaker 3: With that, Okay, r I go, I just I think

1563
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:36,599
Speaker 3: evidence has shown us the Nazi one doesn't really work.

1564
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:38,679
Speaker 3: You got to find something else. You got to find

1565
01:13:38,680 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 3: something that hits with people. Maybe it will hit with people,

1566
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:45,960
Speaker 3: people could start actually turning against it, but I'm somewhat

1567
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:49,879
Speaker 3: doubtful personally at this point, especially in this shitcoin illegal

1568
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 3: gam or pro gambling era. Anyways, that's a way longer conversation, Chris,

1569
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:56,720
Speaker 3: So I enjoyed doing the stream. How long we've been

1570
01:13:56,760 --> 01:13:58,519
Speaker 3: going for two hours and twenty minutes. Yeah, I think

1571
01:13:58,560 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 3: that's pretty good.

1572
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:01,519
Speaker 1: Guys like it. Thank you very much.

1573
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:04,760
Speaker 3: You can sign up Breaking Points Premium subscriber at breakingpoints

1574
01:14:04,760 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 3: dot com. Maybe we'll do this something like this and

1575
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:10,040
Speaker 3: again in the wild do I mean it's free wheeling.

1576
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:12,720
Speaker 3: Like you got to ask about the Aussie Open thing.

1577
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:15,080
Speaker 3: I was like, you know, it was just fun and

1578
01:14:15,080 --> 01:14:16,800
Speaker 3: then here you know, we're not worried about time and

1579
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:18,120
Speaker 3: putting the show out or whatever.

1580
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:19,880
Speaker 4: True, I'm really.

1581
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:20,400
Speaker 1: Actually enjoying it.

1582
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:22,559
Speaker 3: We can just talk as much as we want. And honestly,

1583
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 3: you know, I was watching some of the live numbers.

1584
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:26,320
Speaker 3: It didn't really go down that much. We're talking for

1585
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:27,679
Speaker 3: twenty or thirty minutes.

1586
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:28,880
Speaker 1: So I was like, hey, maybe it works.

1587
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:31,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe I do it like once a week.

1588
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:33,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's a lot. Okay, maybe maybe we'll talk.

1589
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:35,840
Speaker 2: We have some figure on. Yeah, it's a totally different

1590
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:38,000
Speaker 2: business model too. I have to think about all those things.

1591
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:40,559
Speaker 2: But anyway, it was fun. Thank you guys. Interesting week

1592
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:42,960
Speaker 2: and Counterpoints that be here for you tomorrow. Will be

1593
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:44,800
Speaker 2: back for you Thursday, so we'll see you then.