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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature future production of I Heart Radio. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology

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Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, and today on the show Don't Judge

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Speaker 1: a Book by its horrible Jaws, were talking about sharks,

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Speaker 1: spiders and other creepy crawleys that go bump in the night,

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Speaker 1: and we're finding blah, they have a sweet side. We'll

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Speaker 1: get to know these nasty nashers by a slightly different

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Speaker 1: side of themselves, and we'll answer the age old question,

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Speaker 1: can you hug the shark? Maybe not, I wouldn't do it,

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Speaker 1: but you know, could you? Joining me today to make

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Speaker 1: friends and finfluenced people as hosted the podcast Lour After

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Speaker 1: Hours in George Center, Christie, I'm a Gucci mane. Hello Katie,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having me again. I would absolutely hug a shark.

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Speaker 1: Did you To get that out of the way. Given

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Speaker 1: the opportunity legally speaking, legally speaking on this podcast to

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Speaker 1: legally and dimnify ourselves, I would say, don't hug a

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Speaker 1: shark because it could bite you. But you know, I

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Speaker 1: think there are I mean a whale shark. Honestly, I'd

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Speaker 1: hug a whale shark. Oh absolutely, And like what's another Like,

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Speaker 1: I feel like a nurse shark is probably okay, we

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Speaker 1: might nip at you. I feel like it's kind of

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Speaker 1: up to the shark. Yeah. I think like if the shark,

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Speaker 1: if the shark is not too dangerous, like a whale shark,

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Speaker 1: but if it doesn't want to hug, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to hug a shark that doesn't want to hush. Sure, absolutely, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: Consent is key there. Uh. And if the shark gives

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Speaker 1: you permission to hug it, then sure, right. But if

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Speaker 1: a great white shark is saying like, come on, bring

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Speaker 1: it on in here, then I would be a little

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Speaker 1: hesitant because I prob got like a bib with a

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Speaker 1: little human thing on it, like a human icon on it,

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Speaker 1: like a lobster bib. Exactly. It's it's it's it looks

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Speaker 1: just like you know, going to eat long John Silver's

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Speaker 1: or something like a knife. And he's licking his lips

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Speaker 1: in a cartoonish fashion. He's like, yeah, give me a

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Speaker 1: human exactly, or or a baby shark. I will say,

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Speaker 1: like I have not I don't think I've ever hugged

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Speaker 1: a shark before, but I've definitely you know, pet a

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Speaker 1: shark like a you would a cat or a dog

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Speaker 1: or something like the touch tank at an aquarium. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a baby. Sharks are some of the cutest little

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Speaker 1: things in the world. They look like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: they look like angry little kiddies to me, but with Finns,

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Speaker 1: I think. Uh. Peter some years ago was trying to

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Speaker 1: start a campaign where they changed Basically they were trying

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Speaker 1: to get the public to refer to fish and sharks

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Speaker 1: as sea kittens. Yeah remember that. Yeah, and uh, you know, good,

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Speaker 1: good effort. I'm not not going to knock Peter. I

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Speaker 1: don't want them angrily exactly. I don't want them coming

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Speaker 1: after me or anything. Um. But yeah, not all fish

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Speaker 1: I think deserve to be compared to kittens, but definitely

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Speaker 1: some of them, and I think sharks are are included

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Speaker 1: in that. Have you ever seen a baby salmon shark?

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Speaker 1: They are, I don't think, really adorable. They got big

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Speaker 1: old eyes. They're super cute. Oh my god. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: have seen this picture before, but I did not. I

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Speaker 1: thought it was like a baby great white or something. No, no,

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Speaker 1: it's a baby salmon shark. Wow, Oh my god, that's adorable. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it looks it looks like a like an anime version

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Speaker 1: of a shark or something. Have you heard of there's

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Speaker 1: a there's a forum on Reddit called I Think soon

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Speaker 1: dairy Sharks. Have you seen that where they turned the

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Speaker 1: sharks into like anime characters that blush and and they're

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Speaker 1: like biting the the the whole of a boat and saying,

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Speaker 1: notice me sentpie. Yeah exactly, I forgot about that. It's yeah,

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Speaker 1: so in our imaginations, sharks are very cute. Of course,

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Speaker 1: I don't necessarily advocate going up to a shark. I

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Speaker 1: think most sharks just kind of want to be left

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Speaker 1: alone by humans. And I'm joking about great white sharks,

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Speaker 1: you know, wanting to eat humans. Typically they just want

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Speaker 1: to avoid us. In fact, there's that drone footage that

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Speaker 1: shows a lot of sharks off the coast of California,

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Speaker 1: more than we thought further inland or or closer to land,

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Speaker 1: and it really demonstrates that these sharks, including great white sharks,

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Speaker 1: just don't really want to have anything to do with humans.

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Speaker 1: They don't want to eat us necessarily, they just don't

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Speaker 1: want to interact with us. We're not their typical diet,

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Speaker 1: and they just kind of want to leave us alone

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Speaker 1: and be left alone. But that doesn't mean that all

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Speaker 1: sharks are just kind of loaners. In fact, there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of sharks that do love to have ends. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: it's not us that they want to be friends with,

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Speaker 1: but they do want to be friends with each other.

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Speaker 1: They are not just soulless predators with black eyes like

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Speaker 1: a doll's eyes. Uh. They recognize the power of friendship.

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Speaker 1: It's so cute, it's adorable. So new observations of multiple

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Speaker 1: species of sharks seems to indicate that they form long

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Speaker 1: term friendships with each other. So yeah. Study tracking the

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Speaker 1: movements of gray reef sharks in the ocean near Hawaii

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Speaker 1: has found that they seem to prefer to spend time

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Speaker 1: with specific individuals, which indicates some kind of sharky friendship.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing. I had no idea that they like that

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Speaker 1: they have the the I guess. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: knock the intelligence of a shark. I know creatures are

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Speaker 1: intelligent and in all sorts of different ways, but I

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Speaker 1: didn't know that they had like the kind of brain

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Speaker 1: capacity need to really recognize other shark friends long term. Yeah. No,

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Speaker 1: I get it, because you know, I think about intelligent

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Speaker 1: see animals, I think of maybe whales and dolphins. I

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Speaker 1: don't think of a You know, typically don't think of

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Speaker 1: a shark as being an intelligent animally. You think of

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Speaker 1: it as sort of this like swimming kill machine. But

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Speaker 1: but yeah, they they they have the capacity. They have

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Speaker 1: the memory to recognize their friends for years, and they

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Speaker 1: have the emotional capacity to seek out that friendship. Now,

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Speaker 1: there are some species of sharks, like great white sharks,

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Speaker 1: who aren't that friendly with each other. They don't really

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Speaker 1: form friendships in this way. It does, at least not

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Speaker 1: our observations up to this point haven't really seemed to

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Speaker 1: indicate that. Um. But yeah, gray reef sharks, uh, which

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Speaker 1: are They are an intimidating looking shark. They're very sort

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Speaker 1: of sharky looking shark. They grow up to be about

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Speaker 1: six ft or two meters long. They're fairly aggressive when

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Speaker 1: it comes to other shark species. They'll defend their territory,

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Speaker 1: but they are very friendly with their own species. And

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Speaker 1: the observed friendships between two individual sharks has been shown

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Speaker 1: to last four years. The only reason we don't know

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Speaker 1: how long it lasts is that the batteries on the

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Speaker 1: shark tracking devices ran out, and yeah, so that's what

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Speaker 1: I want in a friendship When that lasts longer than

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Speaker 1: a shark tracking device battery, what do you think? Like,

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Speaker 1: so you think these sharks like, uh, do recreational activities

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Speaker 1: with each other as well? Like, are they they hunt

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Speaker 1: with each other? They hang out? Like? Okay are sharks?

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Speaker 1: Is a group of sharks called a school or is

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Speaker 1: it something else for for sharks? You know, that's a

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Speaker 1: good question. I think it is school. So these these

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Speaker 1: like long shark friends met in school perfectly good, yeah, okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: So I'm just trying to give a little backstory to

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Speaker 1: these shark friendships. Um. So they they met in school,

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Speaker 1: become lifelong friends, they have similar interests, um, and then

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Speaker 1: human observers get real weird and put tags on them. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and they outlast the human batteries the tags. That's incredible. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just love that's so it's so poetic. It's like

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Speaker 1: it's like, you know, you've got shark number one going like, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be friends longer than this battery on

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Speaker 1: this tag last. I think it's conceivable that these could

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Speaker 1: be lifelong friendships. We just don't know. Because our dang

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Speaker 1: batteries don't last as long as sharks love for each other.

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Speaker 1: That's beautiful. I love this so much. I love this

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Speaker 1: so much. Now, great reef sharks are those Atlantic or

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Speaker 1: Pacific or just kind of like all over they I

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Speaker 1: think they're pretty cosmopolitan, meaning they're all over, but I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're there in the Indo Pacific, they can be uh

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Speaker 1: they can go as far west as South Africa or

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Speaker 1: as far east as the Eastern Islands, so so yeah,

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Speaker 1: kind of in that that region. I I something that

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Speaker 1: I've I've learned recently is just how like like great

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Speaker 1: whites in particular are literally all over the world. Like

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Speaker 1: I don't think there's an ocean, or there might be,

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Speaker 1: but uh that great whites don't travel through They swim

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Speaker 1: such long distances. And I wasn't sure if if that

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Speaker 1: was unique to that species or if if a lot

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Speaker 1: of other sharks did the same thing. You know, a

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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of sharks do do cover wide

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Speaker 1: areas of territory. I mean, the great shark is one

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Speaker 1: of these, Like if you look at a map at

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Speaker 1: their their territories, they're like you can see them off

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Speaker 1: the coast of Australia, off the coast of India, off

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Speaker 1: the coast of Africa, off the coast of like Pacific Islands.

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Speaker 1: So so, yeah, they have quite a quite a wide

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Speaker 1: range and they can travel pretty good distances. In fact,

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Speaker 1: one of the things they love to do together is

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Speaker 1: they surf together. They ride waves in groups, especially with

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Speaker 1: their friends, so they can relax and even get some

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Speaker 1: sleep while traveling great distances together. So they're boogie boarding

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Speaker 1: with each Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. I love this so much.

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Speaker 1: There's just a bunch of bros. Certain it's so cool.

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Speaker 1: Like I so, I grew up and still live here

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Speaker 1: at the beach, and it's one of those things that

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Speaker 1: that like you always know when you're you know, swimming

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Speaker 1: out in the surf. You were talking about that Gerne

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Speaker 1: footage earlier, you like, there are sharks around you all

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Speaker 1: the time. And it's it's once you understand that and

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Speaker 1: you realize I've never never had an encounter with one,

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Speaker 1: you realize how much they do to stay out of

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Speaker 1: the way of of humans. They are not after you.

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Speaker 1: You are not fish. They know you're not a fish. Um,

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Speaker 1: And it takes a very large like these these shure

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Speaker 1: you said, they get up to about six ft long. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: like that's that's a perfect size for like a shark

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Speaker 1: that like looks intimidating but really poses no threat to you.

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Speaker 1: What they don't want to tangle with you. Their diet

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Speaker 1: is is fish and definitely not human sized fish. These

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Speaker 1: guys really, I mean, they really don't pose that much

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Speaker 1: of a threat to humans. They might they might bite you,

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Speaker 1: like if you are really get in their face and

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Speaker 1: you really threaten them. But I think most of these

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Speaker 1: species that I'm talking about in terms of like because

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Speaker 1: there are more, it's not just the gray reef sharks

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Speaker 1: that that form friendships. Uh, they tend to really not

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Speaker 1: pose that much of a threat to humans as long

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Speaker 1: as you're not like really aggravating them. In fact that

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Speaker 1: most of the time they just kind of want to

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Speaker 1: get away with you and go hang out with their

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Speaker 1: shark buddies. Can I tell you a very weird shark

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Speaker 1: story that I have. So when I was like probably

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Speaker 1: eight years old, Um, as I said, I grew up

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Speaker 1: you know, fishing around here. Uh, growing up at the beach.

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Speaker 1: We went a couple of miles out in the ocean,

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Speaker 1: and my dad ended up landing a hammerhead shark. And

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Speaker 1: it was the scariest thing that I had ever experienced

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Speaker 1: at that point because this thing was probably about seven

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Speaker 1: foot long, um, maybe longer uh And I don't know

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Speaker 1: the exact species of hammerhead, but he landed it. We

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Speaker 1: went to clean it that night because we ate everything

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Speaker 1: that we caught. We didn't do this for sport or anything.

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Speaker 1: And I would never endorse anybody catching sharks now, but

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Speaker 1: this was like, Yeah, the the fear, the fear of

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Speaker 1: sharks as well as them being like in a lot

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Speaker 1: of I guess dishes that are are highly sought after

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Speaker 1: makes them targets for for hunting. People don't often don't

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Speaker 1: have empathy for them because they think of them as

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Speaker 1: just these monsters and they're they're not. They're you know,

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Speaker 1: Jaws really painted a horrible picture of them, which is

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Speaker 1: not for sure. Well, we we took that shark home,

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Speaker 1: we cleaned it. But when we cleaned it, or when

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Speaker 1: my dad cleaned it rather, I was, like I said,

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Speaker 1: I was completely freaked out thrashing around on the deck

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Speaker 1: of this you know, small grady white boat. Um it

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Speaker 1: had babies inside its stomach and rich is very sad

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Speaker 1: and not to bring down your listenership, but uh, we

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Speaker 1: were fascinated by it. We went and got alcohol and

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Speaker 1: preserved these baby sharks and like gave them to our

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Speaker 1: family members for like presents and stuff. And I had

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Speaker 1: a uh, basically an embalmed baby hammerhead shark in my

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Speaker 1: room for the longest time. That is really cool and sad,

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Speaker 1: and I it is. You have to show it. It

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Speaker 1: deteriorated long ago. This was like twenty five years ago

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Speaker 1: at this point. Yes, so it's it's long bit. You know,

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Speaker 1: we weren't professional, you know, scientists embalming these these specimen

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Speaker 1: back then. But yeah, I had one frame a very

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Speaker 1: long time. So that's my weird shark story. Don't do that.

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Speaker 1: Don't catch shark. Uh, if you hook one by accident,

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Speaker 1: throw it back and pet it on the head first

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Speaker 1: if it if it allows you, and then throw it back.

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Speaker 1: They hid to your buddies for me and then and

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Speaker 1: then toss it back. In terms of threats to humans,

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Speaker 1: so so the gray reef shark is probably the most

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Speaker 1: aggressive of the sharks we're going to talk about. They

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Speaker 1: do they will attack humans. Like I said, they're they're

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Speaker 1: pretty aggressive towards other shark species, and they defend their

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Speaker 1: territory and they'll do the same with with humans, and

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Speaker 1: they can do like uh serious, you know, attacks on people.

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Speaker 1: I don't really think they tend to be deadly though.

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Speaker 1: It's just like you don't want to you don't want

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Speaker 1: it just doesn't take a chunk out of you. It's

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Speaker 1: like a dog licking you, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: They're just wanting pets, that's all it is. They just

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Speaker 1: want to hug. No, no, they they will they will

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Speaker 1: bite you. They're sort of like a imagine a giant chihuahua,

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Speaker 1: undersea chihuahua with much sharper powerful teeth, and you've got

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Speaker 1: a gray reef shark. It's like a Peter would call

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Speaker 1: them a sea chihuahuaa exactly with their friends exactly boogie

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Speaker 1: boarding for some attention. That's it. But so that's gray

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Speaker 1: reef sharks. But sand tiger sharks are another group of

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Speaker 1: cutie's who hold fins and make friends together. Well okay,

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Speaker 1: maybe they don't like hold fins, but they will huddle

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Speaker 1: together with their friends. So, sand tiger sharks are fairly

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Speaker 1: big sharks that can grow over ten feet or around

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Speaker 1: three meters long. They were observed during their migration along

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Speaker 1: the coach of the Eastern US and appear to have

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Speaker 1: complex social behavior and form friend groups. The groups tend

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Speaker 1: to be sex based, with females hanging out with each

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Speaker 1: other and males kind of hanging out with each other.

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Speaker 1: So like a middle school dance where you have all

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Speaker 1: the girls on one side and all the boys on

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Speaker 1: one side. I don't know if that's the case anymore.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the younger generations have fixed that sort of issue.

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Speaker 1: But I know when I was in middle school, you

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Speaker 1: would have like these two groups of scared kids where

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Speaker 1: you had all the boys huddled together and all the

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Speaker 1: girls huddled together, and sometimes you dare someone to go

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Speaker 1: out and try to ask a boy for a dance.

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Speaker 1: But as the as the stepdad of of three boys

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Speaker 1: that have uh, you know, come up through middle school

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Speaker 1: not too long ago, Uh, it's still very awkward. It's

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Speaker 1: it's still like that. I think the kids have not

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Speaker 1: solved that. Not we they have to solve that before

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Speaker 1: they solve like global warming and all the ill that.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I think that might be. I think

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Speaker 1: that might be just a thing that lasts for time eternal,

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Speaker 1: like when we're in robot bodies, and we have the

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Speaker 1: female and male robots, or probably we'll have all sorts

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Speaker 1: of different fluid genders of robots, because we'll we'll have

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Speaker 1: will become much more advanced in our society. But then

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Speaker 1: we'll we'll still it will still be like be boop,

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Speaker 1: this is awkward. Yes, uh, we will. We will have

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Speaker 1: our utopia in the future, except for that, except for me,

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Speaker 1: we'll have completely advanced in our views on gender, except

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Speaker 1: for middle school dances, where where we'll still find it

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Speaker 1: very awkward. But yeah, so so sharks, you know, have

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Speaker 1: very awkward middle school dances. But they the reason that

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Speaker 1: they tend to make these sext based groups is because

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Speaker 1: the females are probably evading mating pressures when they don't

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Speaker 1: want to mate, so they just avoid of dudes. Um.

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Speaker 1: And when sand tigers do mate, they nibble at each other,

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Speaker 1: which I guess is cute. It's a little weird, it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a very good idea on the the lady

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Speaker 1: sand tiger sharks. Uh, you know, it's a good idea.

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Speaker 1: They've got the right idea there. Just just avoid the

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Speaker 1: guys all together. It makes makes life simpler and uh,

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Speaker 1: and and less pressure film and all that all that

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Speaker 1: good stuff. Yeah, just just have a girls stay out,

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Speaker 1: just you know, doing a feeding frenzy with the girls exactly.

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Speaker 1: I love feeding frenzy with the gals. They really are

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Speaker 1: cuddling though, Like this one's got it's it's lower it's

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Speaker 1: it's got its lower jaw resting on the dorsal fin

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Speaker 1: of another sand tiger shark. It's so cute. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they huddle together. They they basically do everything except hook

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Speaker 1: their little fins together and and skip through a field

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Speaker 1: of see flowers of seaweeds. Right. Yeah, but these guys

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Speaker 1: also even though their teeth look really like you you

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Speaker 1: can see that picture of their teeth, they they look

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Speaker 1: quite intimidating. They really don't like to attack humans. They

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Speaker 1: tend to keep their distance. They're not they're not very

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Speaker 1: aggressive obviously with any shark. Like you don't want to

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Speaker 1: just like go up to a shark and if you're

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Speaker 1: not like an expert and poke it on the nose

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Speaker 1: because it might bite you. Because it's like, hey, get

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Speaker 1: out of my face, like you're not you're not my buddy.

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Speaker 1: But like, yeah, they they're they are much more gentle

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Speaker 1: than they look, which I think is really sweet. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And lemon sharks are another species of shark. They sound

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Speaker 1: like they would be really cute little lemon shaped sharks,

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Speaker 1: but they are actually really big and just sharky looking.

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Speaker 1: So they grew up to around eleven feet around three

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Speaker 1: point five meters long, and they are found in the

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Speaker 1: Western Atlantic and they have very complex social lives. They

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Speaker 1: like to form groups. Usually their groups are based on

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Speaker 1: similar age or size, although sometimes young sharks like to

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Speaker 1: hang out with the bigger sharks to learn from them.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of like someone in middle school trying to

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Speaker 1: hang out with the high schoolers, like, yeah, I'm one

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Speaker 1: of you. Do you want to see my pokemons? Oh,

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Speaker 1: we're not playing with pokemon's anymore. I'm sorry. I love

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Speaker 1: Is that so that that's how lemon sharks sound. That's

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Speaker 1: little lemon sharks like little baby lemon sharks trying to

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Speaker 1: hang out with bigger lemon sharks Like, hey, guys, you

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Speaker 1: wanna to see my pokemon's Now we're eating fish. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I guess I can eat a fish, But if you

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Speaker 1: want to see my pokemons later, I got a binder

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Speaker 1: full of pokemons. I'm trying to think of what what

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Speaker 1: one of these what a little lemon sharks like Pokemon

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Speaker 1: starter would be, uh, probably the on what was a

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Speaker 1: squirtl or like a garro dose or something? Yeah, or

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Speaker 1: like magic harp Yeah, magic harp definitely. But they're carr

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Speaker 1: Card's got a few bites taken out of it because

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Speaker 1: they're kind of hungry. I can't I don't know my

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Speaker 1: pokey man's h well enough to know if there's a

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Speaker 1: shark one. Um, but there's gotta be. There's gotta be.

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Speaker 1: Oh I spelled it wrong. It's Pokemon. Yeah, there's lots

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Speaker 1: of sharky Pokemon. Sharpedo. That's that's a torpedo shaped shark

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Speaker 1: Pokemon who is a dual water dark type Pokemon introduced

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Speaker 1: in generation three. That's perfect. That's perfect. And at Katie

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Speaker 1: on Twitter with your Pokemon recommendations for a little little

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Speaker 1: shark kids playing Pokemon. Yeah, I mean I got I

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Speaker 1: got my my my shark anime. Have you seen shark

359
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 1: anime soon? Darius Shirts, Hey guys, where are you going? Guys?

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Speaker 1: But trail huh, that's pretty cool. You. I will sit

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Speaker 1: here and let you do that as long as you want.

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Speaker 1: I love that voice, so so yeah, lemon sharks a

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Speaker 1: bunch of little cuties hanging out little sharks, sometimes hanging

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Speaker 1: out with the big sharks, trying to learn learn how

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Speaker 1: to play sharks games with them, and this group living

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Speaker 1: can be beneficial to the sharks in terms of safety

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Speaker 1: and hunting. But there's some evidence to suggest that they

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Speaker 1: form friendships and social groups out of a desire for companionship,

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Speaker 1: even when controlling for the practical benefits of being in

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Speaker 1: a group. So basically, this research is trying to demonstrate

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Speaker 1: that regardless of whether they would tangibly benefit from being

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Speaker 1: in this group, they still form these groups because they

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Speaker 1: just want that companionship. And it's similar when you think

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Speaker 1: about humans, like when we form companions trips for normal people,

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Speaker 1: non sociopathic people. When people form a friendship, you think

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Speaker 1: about like you're not thinking, Okay, what is this friend

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Speaker 1: gonna do for me? Like how am I going to

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Speaker 1: get stuff out of this friend? Hopefully in in good friendship,

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Speaker 1: ideally right, ideally, and you you form these connections because

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Speaker 1: you generally want to hang out and sometimes you do

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Speaker 1: benefit each other, right, Like you do it's like oh, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, I know this great place to eat or something,

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Speaker 1: and you get benefits from each other, but it's not

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Speaker 1: You're not forming a friendship just to be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to form this friend I am going to

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Speaker 1: hang out with them in the hopes that they find

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Speaker 1: a good restaurant for me to eat at. And that's

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Speaker 1: your only if that is you need to think, actually, friendship.

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Speaker 1: I think I've probably gone into a friendship with that

390
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: motivation before. I'm not gonna lie is like this person

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Speaker 1: probably knows where the good foods at or or I

392
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 1: know that they have a background in cooking or something,

393
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: and like I'm I'm just trying to you know, snag

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Speaker 1: an invitation for dinner one night. Like, no shame in

395
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: that as long as you also give as well as

396
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: taking that friendship. But you when we hang out with

397
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: people and we form connections, it's an emotional thing. Like

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Speaker 1: we don't we don't necessarily think of all of this through,

399
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 1: but we do end up benefiting. And this is in

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Speaker 1: our evolutionary history. We are motivated by emotion to hang

401
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 1: out with each other and it does end up benefiting

402
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 1: us in the long run in our evolutionary history. But

403
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Speaker 1: we form these social groups not purely out of sort

404
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Speaker 1: of a cold calculation typically, and this is what these

405
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Speaker 1: researchers are starting to think is the case with these sharks,

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Speaker 1: is that they are forming these groups not out of

407
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Speaker 1: like some kind of shark calculation of like if I

408
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Speaker 1: hang out with this group, there's more fish. It's like

409
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: an emotional bond that they have that It's kind of

410
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Speaker 1: like when you your cat. You know your cat has

411
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Speaker 1: an emotional bond with you. Of course they just want

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Speaker 1: food out of you, but they actually do form an

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Speaker 1: emotional bond with you. Sure, they're little, they're little satanic demons,

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Speaker 1: I get that, but they do they do have the

415
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Speaker 1: capacity I to have an emotional bond with you, even

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Speaker 1: though they are technically speaking just trying to get food

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Speaker 1: out of you. It is I think they have this

418
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Speaker 1: genuine feeling they want a companionship. That so they'll come

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Speaker 1: up and want to get pets and stuff from you

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Speaker 1: even when they're not hungry, even when they don't need food.

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Speaker 1: And it's the same thing with these sharks. They want

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Speaker 1: companionship even when they don't. It's like not not directly

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00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: benefiting them in the long term. Evolutionarily speaking, it does

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Speaker 1: benefit them, but it comes from this place of emotional

425
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: desire potentially, which if that's the case, this is really

426
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,719
Speaker 1: revolutionizing our understanding of sharks because we don't think of

427
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: them as being emotional, as as being able to have feelings.

428
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: You know. It's like they've got black eyes, like a

429
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 1: doll's eyes. So yeah, I mean, just the name shark

430
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: is synonymous with like a person that is cold and

431
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 1: calculating and and you know, doesn't show emotion and is

432
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: kinda i mean just kind of a bad person, you know,

433
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: unless unless you're thinking of like a pool shark. But

434
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: even then they're like coming in to take your money,

435
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: and that's you know, uh, so yeah, it's it's, uh,

436
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: there's no reason that we should have that preconceived notion

437
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 1: about these animals. But you know, because of human language

438
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: and us needing analogies for things all the time, we

439
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: we uh wrongfully give people names of animals when they

440
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 1: don't necessarily represent that animal whatsoever. Yeah, exactly, And I

441
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: think especially with sea animals, marine animals, we they've evolved

442
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 1: so separately from us. Not I'm not talking about marine

443
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: mammals because obviously we share an evolutionary history with them,

444
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: but marine other marine animals like sharks, fish, Uh, you know,

445
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 1: cephalopods like squid and octopuses, which again we've we've learned

446
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 1: that octopuses and have potentially very complex emotions and intelligence,

447
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: but they don't have We don't see their body signals

448
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: are so different from any mammal. Like we can kind

449
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 1: of read the mood of a dog. We've co evolved

450
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 1: with a dog. We can kind of intuitively understand what

451
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: mood a dog is in. We can even read the

452
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 1: mood of something that we haven't maybe co evolved with

453
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: as much. If you see like a lion or something,

454
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: you can kind of get a sense of the lion

455
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: what the lion is feeling. Maybe maybe not always accurately,

456
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: but but we can read their expressions somewhat. A shark

457
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,239
Speaker 1: they're unreadable to us. They're so alien that looking at

458
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: a shark face, they don't have expressions. They don't really

459
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: have facial expressions that we can read. Their body expressions

460
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 1: are inscrutable, so we kind of just assume, I guess

461
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: that they don't have emotions, when of course that's probably

462
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 1: not true. They probably do have an emotional life. Especially

463
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: I think carnivores predators are off and more intelligent because

464
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: they have to be. They have to have some intelligence

465
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: to hunt. Hunting is difficult, So I think it would

466
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: be surprising if one of these main predators of the

467
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,719
Speaker 1: ocean is not intelligent and doesn't have any emotional intelligence.

468
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: I think that would be much more strange than than

469
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: something that has to hunt in and and you know,

470
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 1: have this complex behavior just like being an empty kind

471
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: of like soulless robot. That that doesn't make any sense. Yeah, absolutely,

472
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 1: I Uh, from now on, I'm going anytime I see

473
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: a shark wagon's tail wagon's tail fan, I'm just gonna

474
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: assume it's happy, just like a dog, Just like I

475
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: would a dog. I'm gonna extend that, uh, you know,

476
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: credit to the shark that it's in a good mood

477
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: and it wants a hug from me. Because this podcast

478
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: is not responsible for loss of limbs encounter during the

479
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: assumption that you should rub the belly of a shark

480
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: even if it looks super cute, I want to rub

481
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: the belly of a shark so bad, also like the

482
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: lemon shark. You're right, like the names for these creatures

483
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: do so much heavy lifting as far as our preconceived notion,

484
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: because these things are massive and the sand like a

485
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: sand tiger shark sounds bad ass, like it just sounds

486
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: like it is going to hunt you down. Same thing

487
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: with like a thrasher shark, and a thrasher shark might

488
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: I don't know what the temperament of a thrasher is.

489
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: But like these names again there they give these preconceived

490
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: notions of of these creatures and in reality we know

491
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: so little about them. Yeah, thrashers are actually they're thrashers,

492
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: which I don't know that. I don't know why it

493
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: does sound like thrasher though. And they they look intimidating

494
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: because they've got this really long spiky tail, and they

495
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: they leap out of the water really like they can

496
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: do these incredible leaps. But yeah, they're they're no threat

497
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: to humans at all. Really. See. But the name and

498
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: and you're absolutely right, it is a thresher shark. I

499
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: grew up thinking it was thrasher shark because that's understandable, right,

500
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: because what's threshing? I don't know is that is that

501
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: an actual is that like some scientists name or is

502
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: it like is it a verb of some sort? Let

503
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: me see if I can look that up, because I

504
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: have no idea where that came from. I don't I

505
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: have no idea. Why is Why is it called a

506
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: thresher shark? Oh? Okay, so it's the I see. So

507
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: it's the name for their Their tail looks like a

508
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: scythe which I guess is like threshing when you're like

509
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: cutting down wheat or something of like threshing or a thresher.

510
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: So since its tail looks like a thresher like a side,

511
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: that's why they're called thresher sharks. That's super badass. It's

512
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,959
Speaker 1: very badass. They look really cool. They look like scary,

513
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: but they really are not. That's what death carries, right,

514
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: he carries a Yeah, yeah, we should just call him

515
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: scythe sharks. That's that's metal a f love it, love it, Christie.

516
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: What is your attitude towards spiders? I love them, absolutely

517
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: love them. I love all critters for the most part,

518
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: except for like the giant cockroaches that we have here

519
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: in southeastern North Carolina that are like this big um.

520
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,479
Speaker 1: Those get a little annoying, especially when they fly right

521
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: at your face when you're like on the back porch.

522
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: But when it comes to spiders, I will not kill

523
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: a spider. I will let them live in my house.

524
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: I always trap them and then re home them outside. Um,

525
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: because they're they're little spider bros. They're just trying to

526
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: keep my house insect free, you know. Yeah, I have

527
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: like a size limit of spiders all lit stay in

528
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: in the in the house. It's sort of the opposite

529
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: of like a carnival ride. You must be this tall

530
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: to right, it must be this small to stay in

531
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: my house. But if they're under like if they're smaller

532
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: than like a quarter, then it's like, yeah, no, you

533
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: can hang out in here. And and if they're larger

534
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: than a quarter, I do try to catch them and

535
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: put them outside. I have once instinctively like stomped on

536
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: a spider that was larger, and I felt so bad.

537
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, I'm sorry, but it was

538
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: dead man. I'm gonna I feel like I just keep

539
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: bumming out your listeners. But like I stepped on a

540
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,479
Speaker 1: wolf spider one time and by accident, and just like

541
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: hundreds of babies like that, we're riding on her back,

542
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: just like it was like you killed bambies mother too?

543
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: Did I did? Sorry to reveal that, um, but gives

544
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: the back to every Disney movie involving animals. I killed

545
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: Charlotte's I killed Charlotte and but and and her babies

546
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: parachuted away. Um what else did I kill? Um? No?

547
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: The but just like the the immediate kind of like again,

548
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: I love spiders, but the immediate visual horror of like

549
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: a hundred of them suddenly like you know, ralling in

550
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: all directions. It's it's uh, it'll it'll make you do

551
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: a double take. No, I love spiders, but like I have,

552
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: I still like have that instinct of if I see

553
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: a spider, I have I have a startle reflex, which

554
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: is why unfortunately, smoosh that poor little spider baby, rip

555
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: and piece, you were too good for this world. Pour

556
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: one out. But I understand, like being afraid of spiders

557
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: is nothing to be ashamed of. It's I think are

558
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: we are very instinctively afraid of of spiders and snakes

559
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: and things that could potentially bide us and cause some problems,

560
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: although most spiders are completely harmless. But are there any

561
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: spiders Because for the most part, spiders just want to

562
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: avoid us. They don't even the venomous spiders don't really

563
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: want to have to bite you. They do that out

564
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: of a defense. Mechanism. They don't, you know, chase after

565
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: you to bite you. They are basically they want to

566
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: be left alone. They want to leave you alone. They

567
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: don't really want to do much with humans. They just

568
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: want to snack on bugs and and spend time alone.

569
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: But there is an exception to this, and that there

570
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: is a spider that just wants to have a big

571
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: old party with other spiders and with humans. And it

572
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: is the cutest little thing. The winner of Miss Congeniality

573
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: Amongst Spiders. Chickunia build A who is a small heart

574
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: shaped spider from Bali, who is a sweet little cutie

575
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: who wants to give you big hug eight times with

576
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: each of its arms. I love it. That's a heck

577
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: of a name. Chickuna build A It so okay. I

578
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: see the little baby spiders around it, and that is

579
00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: a weird. I don't think I've ever seen an abdom

580
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: in shape like that like it. It's it comes to

581
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,439
Speaker 1: like almost a spike at the end, but it has

582
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: these two It's got Katie spiders have got some curves

583
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: on it, not to not to get weird about the spider,

584
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 1: but real spiders have curves. They absolutely do. Um Man,

585
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 1: that is a weird looking that's a bizarre looking critter

586
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 1: right there. Yeah, it's like it's abdomen is kind of

587
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: heart shaped, although it's not quite got like the divot

588
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: at the top. It's sort of like a like a

589
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: tear drop shape where the pointy end is at the

590
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: most posterior point and then it kind of bulges out

591
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: and then it has the the thorax uh that is

592
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 1: much smaller than it. Yeah, it is very strange looking,

593
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: and it looks a little intimidating perhaps sometimes like the

594
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: that it comes to such a sharp point. I think

595
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: it's kind of cute, but it is completely harmless to humans.

596
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: So these little guys are very tiny. They're only about

597
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: three to four millimeters big. They have a shiny black

598
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: or black and brown abdomen that is that like interesting

599
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: like teardrop pointy kind of heart shape, and they not

600
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: only like to hang out with their own species, but

601
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 1: similar species as well. So many spiders are not social.

602
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: They will actually cannibalize each other, or at least they'll

603
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: cannibalize other species of spiders, but Chickuna building likes to

604
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: socialize not only with their own species, but with their

605
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: close cousins. And they like to hang out in human

606
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: areas because they like to eat our pests. So they

607
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: will actively seek out human habitations, so gardens or agricultural areas,

608
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 1: and they will eat the pests that plague our plants

609
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 1: and our crops. So this is a true like definition

610
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: of spider bro exactly. This is the most browest of spiders.

611
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: That's that's incredible, love it. I didn't realize. So these

612
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: things really are tiny though, like they are are are

613
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: almost microscopic. Well you can see them, they're like yeah, yeah, ye,

614
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: not not very well probably with my eyesight, but I

615
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: mean three to four millimeters. It's like it's bigger than

616
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: an ant. So it's like the size of like a

617
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: baby button, like a little tiny button that you have

618
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: on like a baby onesie. Okay, okay, that's an interesting

619
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 1: unit of measurement. I don't know that I know how

620
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: big a baby baby button is, but I will. I

621
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 1: will look it up after all, button button, gotcha? Gotcha?

622
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: So what makes these spiders so interesting compared to other

623
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,439
Speaker 1: social spiders, because there are social spiders that will form

624
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: these big like communal webs and hang out together, is

625
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: not is that they don't just coaxst peacefully with themselves

626
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: but related species, and they hang out together, they eat together,

627
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: but they don't breed with this close closely related species,

628
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: this cousin species. So they are not hanging out thinking that, oh,

629
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: this is just my own species. It's not a mistake.

630
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: They don't breed with them because they recognize this is

631
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 1: not my own species. Uh, and they don't need them

632
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: for reproduction or anything. They stay within their own breeding

633
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: group of their species, but they still hang out with

634
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 1: this other species to hunt and to find food and

635
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: safety numbers. So it's really interesting. And even when their

636
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 1: population gets overly dense and food starts to get more scarce,

637
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 1: they still don't resort to cannibalism. So this is like, uh,

638
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: because I hang out with people that aren't necessarily you know,

639
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: that aren't really my speed. A lot of times I

640
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: enjoy the company of all sorts of different different folks,

641
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: different types of friends and stuff. So like that's basically

642
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: what the spider is doing is kind of uh, has

643
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: a variety of a social circle, if you will, Yeah, exactly.

644
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 1: And then it's like, oh, you're not you're not my species,

645
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 1: but you're like a close cousin to my species, Like,

646
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: let's team up, why not, you know, let's just cooling

647
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: out together. It'd be like if we saw some bonobos

648
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: and instead of destroying their habitat, were like, hey, what,

649
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: we're very similar, let's hang out exactly like or or

650
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 1: like Jane Goodall did with the chimpanzees, right, exactly like that. Man,

651
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: that's fascinating. It's like, you know, with I mean, we

652
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: kind of did that a little bit with Neanderthals, although

653
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 1: there's some debate as to whether we killed off Neanderthals

654
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: or just the right exactly, but we did sort of

655
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 1: breed with them a lot, and so so there is

656
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: still Neanderthal DNA in our DNA. But it'd be as

657
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: if we just hung out with Neanderthals and we're like, hey,

658
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: you guys are cool. We just hung out and like

659
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: there was no conflict because like, we didn't evolve from Neanderthals.

660
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: We were like cousin species, right, right, we co evolved

661
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: alongside each other, we had a common ancestor, right, we

662
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: had a common ancestor. We split off, and uh but

663
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: but they aren't like we didn't like evolve from the Neanderthals.

664
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, so we kind of like killed our

665
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: either killed our own cousin species off or bread them

666
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: out of existence. You're either a cousin kisser or a

667
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: cousin killer. Again, it's a great way to look at humanity.

668
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: And these spiders don't just stop at being friends with

669
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: their cousin species. They also care for their own offspring.

670
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: They feed their offspring while they're young. This is rare

671
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,399
Speaker 1: enough in spiders. But not only do they feed their

672
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,919
Speaker 1: own offspring, they take care of their neighbor's offspring as well.

673
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: They baby sit and they feed these other babies. They

674
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: have communal caretaking of their young, which is just the

675
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: sweetest thing. That's so bizarre. Like I, like you said,

676
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,240
Speaker 1: it's rare enough and like the larger animal kingdom for

677
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: animals to do this, like to care for their young

678
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 1: through like particularly non mammals, especially insects. Yes, yes, sexts

679
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 1: don't tend to They don't do as much parental care

680
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: as other species. Right, they lay in egg sack and

681
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: then they've a mouse, you know they're out of there, uh,

682
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 1: and then they have two hundred children that you know

683
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:36,399
Speaker 1: immediately have to either become prey or hunt prey. So

684
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: that is absolutely fascinating that these things babysit and so like,

685
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,720
Speaker 1: is it because you know, like with the shark things

686
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: or with the with the shark population, they they might

687
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: have complex emotions that we just can't comprehend. With spiders,

688
00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: is there like a benefit to like there being a

689
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: part of a larger spider population as far as food

690
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: goes or or defense. Absolutely, yeah, No, they are definitely

691
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 1: benefiting from forming a communal area because there it's probably

692
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,439
Speaker 1: easier to get prey because they can find an area

693
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: and team up against against this prey. And like if

694
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: they if they can't find food for their offspring, and

695
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: neighbor maybe could find food for their offspring, and they

696
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: can build a web together, so like they can have

697
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: a bigger web that can catch more things. Also, by

698
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 1: being together, they are safer, you know, safety in numbers,

699
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: and they can fend off other spiders more easily, some

700
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: something that may not be as friendly. So there's definitely

701
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: tangible benefits to them being in this group together. Whether

702
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: this is coming from a place of emotion like we

703
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: were talking about earlier, with like sharks and with humans,

704
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: we do have tangible benefits by forming community and in

705
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: form forming friendships but we do it out of emotion.

706
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: It's hard to say because spiders are very very simple

707
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: there there. They don't have the same kind of brain

708
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: that's say a human or shark has. So to say, like, well,

709
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: spider forms these these connections out of emotion, I think

710
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 1: is potentially a step too far. I just it's hard

711
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: to see. It's impossible to know exactly what goes on

712
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: in a spider's teeny tiny little brain. I don't know what.

713
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: They may have some kind of reward system, though, and

714
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 1: it's hard to know, Like what is the distinction between

715
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 1: like say a reward system that a spider has and

716
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: like emotion in a more complex creature. And that's a

717
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: that's a question I don't really have an answer to.

718
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: It's kind of like when you have a robot that

719
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: you program to kind of have a reward system or

720
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: something or want to seek out something, At what point

721
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: is that robot sentient? It's the same question with with

722
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: an Like we know we are sentient, and we have

723
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 1: a pretty good guess that things like apes and dolphins

724
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: and elephants are sentient. Like it's I think that's pretty clear.

725
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: But then as we start to get two more simple animals,

726
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: Like we get two sharks and it's like, I think

727
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: they're sentient. I don't know how much emotion they feel

728
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: or or what is the depth of their emotion, but

729
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: I think they do feel it. I think that's that's

730
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: a safe guest. But then you can start to get

731
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 1: to insects, it's like, well, I don't know, I just

732
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: don't know what the depth of their feeling is. I

733
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 1: would guess there maybe they they feel existence to some degree,

734
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 1: but it's very limited. It's like a very just kind

735
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: of very limited existence. So it's really hard for us

736
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: to even conceive of what's that's like because we it's

737
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: almost like we're too complicated to understand what that would

738
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: be like to experience. It's like, you know, uh Man's

739
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: um comparison of us too, being that would could be

740
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: considered a god, you know, an omnipotent, omnipresent. It's it's

741
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: the same equivalent as a cockroach to us, you know,

742
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: as far as like the complexity levels. You know, not

743
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: that one is more important than the other, but just

744
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: the level of complexity there is is something that the

745
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: cockroach cannot comprehend, just like we could not comprehend being

746
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: Uh that powerful. Well, I'm going to uh just assume

747
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: that these spiders are having barbecues and cookouts with each other,

748
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: and exactly it's the same thing as like inviting your

749
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: neighbors over for a cookout. Everybody brings a dish, you

750
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: know that way, like one person is not supplying all

751
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: the food. It makes things easier. Um, you know, you know,

752
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 1: basically like a pot luck kind of thing situation going on,

753
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: and they're having a good time. They probably listen to

754
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: music of some sort that we can't comprehend because we're

755
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:59,479
Speaker 1: not spiders. Um, there's a little spider manning to grill

756
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: with a little apron that says like, um, regurgitate food

757
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: for the cook Exactly, he's got a spatula and all

758
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: eight legs. He's flipping flipping spider burgers. Many little they

759
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: eat mosquitoes and white fly, which are super annoying pests

760
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: for humans. But he's just got a bunch. He's making

761
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,959
Speaker 1: much of white fly burgers and flipping everything. They're also

762
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: they're also apparently very docile and they don't bite people,

763
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: so like they they tend to be handled pretty well

764
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 1: if you're very gentle. They just a perfect spider cannot

765
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 1: buy these online and just release them in my house.

766
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 1: That leg I don't think so. Unfortunately. I think you'd

767
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: have to travel to Bali to be able to meet

768
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: one of these little guys. But suitcase horrible. Then you're

769
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 1: responsible for new invasive species exactly exactly. Who could blame you? Right?

770
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: But maybe a less charismatic insect that is a lot

771
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 1: less cute, a lot less fun to look at is

772
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 1: the earwig. Now, there are a number of insects that

773
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 1: even I am grossed out by, and earwigs are one

774
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, I I don't. I don't like to

775
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,439
Speaker 1: look at them. I don't like to encounter them. They're

776
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: kind of one of my Uh they're they're kind of

777
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: blacklisted from from my home. You know. I have a

778
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: few like cockroaches, uh, silverfish and earwigs have You're just

779
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: not on the list. Sorry. I check a tiny little

780
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: clipboard and I'm like checond and I'm saying, I'm sorry, sorry,

781
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: I don't see you on the list. They are, they don't.

782
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: They don't look great. Let's let's be honest. I'm not

783
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: going to sugarcoat it. They've got pincers on their butt. Yeah,

784
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: they've got they've got butt, pincers, pincers. They are long,

785
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: shiny black, sometimes sort of brownish. They move in that slithery,

786
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: unsettling manner because they're segmented and they kind of have

787
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 1: a little bit of the centipede movement. But but they

788
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: also have but pincers and yeah, no, I I they're gross.

789
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: We've got so we have the European earwig here in

790
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 1: North Carolina that we get in the house sometimes and

791
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,439
Speaker 1: they're they're also like the one that you've got here

792
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: in front of me has like some cool coloring to it,

793
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: like the it almost looks like a a fiddler crab claw.

794
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: The pincer on the button, you know, it's got it's

795
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: got like a like the bright red to it. And

796
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 1: then it's back is like silver. But this kind in

797
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: North Carolina is like, I don't know if you can

798
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 1: see that. No, it's blurring it it's like brown. It's

799
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, yeah, it looks like a cockroach to

800
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: begin with. Then it's got like you said, the centipede

801
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 1: wiggly nous of it's like segmented. Uh was that thorax?

802
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, they've got they've got is the upper body

803
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: that is the lower body. Okay, so that that weird, uh,

804
00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 1: Like I don't even know what to compare that too,

805
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: but but it like has that wiggly notion to it.

806
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: And then those those pinchers do those pinchers I will

807
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: not bite because it's not their mandible. So is that

808
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: what you call They can use them. They can use

809
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 1: them to bite, they use them to defend themselves if

810
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 1: it feels threatened, and they use them to hunt. So

811
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: they definitely use them as pincers. Wow, it kind of inefficient,

812
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: like usually things attack the front, I feel like, but

813
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 1: if you're a predator, I guess you bite wherever you

814
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: want to. And if those it doesn't matter where those

815
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: pincers are directly. It can curl its backside sort of

816
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 1: like a scorpion, you know, have a scorpion has a

817
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 1: stinger on its backside, so it curls up and can

818
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: sort of strike at things or defend itself. So that's

819
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: that's how it uses it's horrible, horrible butt pincers. And yeah,

820
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: they they the that picture that you're looking at is

821
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: actually a Saint Helena or your wig of the Western gots.

822
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 1: It's a I think one of the coolest looking ones.

823
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 1: It also looks like it crawled right out of hell

824
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 1: because it's got those right right, uh, red pincers, a

825
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:18,720
Speaker 1: black abdomen, and then a silver thorax. It super metal looking,

826
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 1: very very intimidating. But if you see those pincers, it's

827
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 1: actually kind of a good sign if you're worried about

828
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: them being parasites, because any earwig that has pincers is

829
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: not a parasite. They can bite you, and they will

830
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 1: if they feel threatened, but they aren't. They will only

831
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 1: do it in self defense. They do not crawl in

832
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 1: your ear and lay eggs in your brain. That's a myth.

833
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: They despite being called earwigs, they really don't want to

834
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,439
Speaker 1: have anything to do with your ears. The only time

835
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: they would go in your ear would be by on accident,

836
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 1: just like not realizing, and so they they if they've

837
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: got pincers, they're not parasites. There are some species of

838
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:05,320
Speaker 1: earwigs who are parasites, not on humans, but actually on bats,

839
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 1: but they do not have the butt. Pincers actually just

840
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: look like weird large ants. Uh. They kind of look

841
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,280
Speaker 1: like a between like a Jerusalem cricket and an ant.

842
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 1: So that's a that's an earwig I'm looking at right

843
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 1: above it. Yeah, okay, I would have never guessed that. No,

844
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have. They don't have the look. They don't

845
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: look like. They don't look creepy in the sense that

846
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: earwigs do. But those are actually creepier because they are parasites.

847
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 1: We don't have anything to fear from them. But they

848
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: do feed on bats, which I think is sad because

849
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,959
Speaker 1: leave the bats alone. We love serious that so much.

850
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:43,800
Speaker 1: Despite earwigs, the one the non parasitic earwigs with the

851
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: devil's tongues coming out of their butts. They have. Devil's tongues.

852
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 1: Is such a good name for that, the devil's tongues. Yeah,

853
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: that's great. It's true they might bite you if you

854
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 1: handle them, but they just think that you're trying to

855
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: kill them and they're probably not wrong, so you know,

856
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:08,240
Speaker 1: self defense. And other than their bad reputation, they're actually

857
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: pretty sweet. They're amazing and loving mothers. So like we

858
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: talked about, you know, most insects are not that interested

859
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: in caring for their young, even like other arthur pods

860
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: like arachnids, tend not to care for their young, unlike

861
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: the species we talked about earlier, the sweet little friendly

862
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 1: heart shaped spider um. But yeah, a lot of a

863
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,240
Speaker 1: lot of insects, a lot of arthur pods don't don't

864
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 1: take care of their young. Now, there are examples of

865
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: arthur pods who do take care of their young, the

866
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: the heart shaped spider being one of them that we

867
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:47,720
Speaker 1: talked about earlier. Scorpions famously carry their young on their back,

868
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: and uh some insects do as well, including the earwig,

869
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 1: and they tend to be very very caring mothers. So

870
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: earwig mothers are very dedicated to their young mom of

871
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: the Year award. They will fast for months, not eating

872
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: just so they can look after their nest. They will

873
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: constantly clean their eggs, and if they detect pathogens in

874
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:18,879
Speaker 1: their environment, they will clean their eggs more often and

875
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 1: be even more vigilant around their nests. So if they're

876
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: chased away by a predator and they detect that there's pathogens,

877
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 1: they will run back to their nest as soon as

878
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 1: possible to start cleaning their eggs again because they do

879
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: not want their eggs to become infected. And this is

880
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: really important because earwigs can be the victims of parasitic

881
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: fungus and uh so, yeah, they they are meticulous, just

882
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: constantly cleaning. They'll even move their entire nest of eggs

883
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: away if they are in danger, so pick everybody up

884
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: and move it away, which is an incredible feat. And

885
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: even even after the eggs hatch, the earwig others continue

886
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: to care for their young, so they'll help them hatch.

887
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: They regurgitate food for the young hatchlings, and they will

888
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: care for them for months until the babies are really

889
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: ready to strike out on their own. There's nothing like

890
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: a mother's love and that can't be expressed more clearly

891
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 1: than regurgitating food for you're young. Honestly, it's the most

892
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: beautiful thing that nature has to offer. It's it's it's this. Uh,

893
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: most animals do it. Humans are kind of weird ones

894
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,479
Speaker 1: for not not you know, regurgitating food as a sign

895
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 1: of agree Any moms listening out there, if you truly

896
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: love your kids, you will chew their food up, swallow it,

897
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: then throw it back up for them to make it

898
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: easier for them to digest. This podcast is not responsible

899
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,879
Speaker 1: for people who actually try to do that. I feel

900
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:54,720
Speaker 1: like I do nothing but say irresponsible stuff on your show.

901
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 1: I apologize, Kadium, sorry, it's fine. We just need you

902
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 1: to sign here and multiple waivers documents responsible for any

903
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 1: vomit slash shark hugging lawsuit that we that we get.

904
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,359
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, it is it's something where you look

905
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 1: at this thing, this earwig looks like some nightmare that

906
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:21,240
Speaker 1: Satan came up with as he was tossing a salad

907
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,359
Speaker 1: with his with his tongues and and and it's they

908
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: they are just sweet, loving mothers who care for their

909
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: their babies. Of course, like I said earlier, it's hard

910
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 1: to know. You know, this is probably mostly instinct, Like

911
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 1: these are little little mom bots that do these things

912
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 1: out of instinct, probably not a lot of forethought about it,

913
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,800
Speaker 1: but you know, it's it's I think it's still adorable

914
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: and cute despite what they look like too. I love it.

915
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: So you mentioned earlier, Christie that you love bets. I

916
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:04,440
Speaker 1: do absolutely love bats um. I uh grew up just

917
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: seeing them around my house all the time, you know,

918
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 1: like playing basketball in the street at night, and uh

919
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:15,359
Speaker 1: you could you could basically throw rocks up at the

920
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:17,879
Speaker 1: street light and they would swoop down after the rocks,

921
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: and it was just a cool thing to see. We

922
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: never harmed them or anything. I don't have any sad

923
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 1: stories arding bats, nothing like that. But they're absolutely adorable.

924
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: There's so much cuter than people give them credit for.

925
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: And again, and I think, obviously this is the theme

926
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:36,720
Speaker 1: of your episode, like bats have such a bad reputation.

927
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: Uh you know, I don't know if it's because of

928
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 1: Dracula or the whole like spooky aspect of them around Halloween,

929
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 1: but they get a bum rap and they shouldn't. They

930
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 1: absolutely should not. Yeah, we talked about this on our

931
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:55,760
Speaker 1: episode called the Origin on the Origin of Feces, where

932
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 1: we had we had a Rodrigo Medaine who is a

933
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: professor of bat ecology at the University of Mexico, and

934
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,359
Speaker 1: he's known as the Batman of Mexico because he's done

935
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 1: so much for the conservation of long nose abouts. And

936
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 1: that's if you love bats, please listen to that episode.

937
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 1: It's a great interview. He's a wonderful, fascinating guy, and

938
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 1: and we talk about like he loves bats and he

939
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 1: wants to uh talk about like the benefits of bats

940
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: to humanity and how they truly get an undeserved reputation.

941
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 1: And I think one of the species of bats who

942
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 1: kind of get gets like the worst reputation of the

943
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 1: bats is the vampire bats. And you know, despite being

944
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: only there there's over a thousand species of bats, only

945
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 1: three species of bats are vampire bats that that actually

946
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: drink blood, and everyone, for whatever reason, this is the

947
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 1: most sensational kind of thing people have this idea that

948
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: most bats drink blood. The majority of bats do not

949
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: drink blood. Most of them are frugivores, meaning they'll eat fruit, insectivores,

950
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: they'll eat insects, and there are a few species that

951
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 1: are carnivores. Those are more rare, but none of them

952
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 1: are danger to humans other than you know, the rare

953
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 1: cases of rabies and so on. But the the vampire

954
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: bats themselves, I think, really get an undeserved bad reputation.

955
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, we've we've talked about them a

956
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 1: little bit on the show before the fact that vampire

957
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 1: bats really don't tend to drink human blood. There's only

958
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 1: one species that has been found to drink human blood.

959
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 1: This is the hairy legged vampire bat of South and

960
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 1: Central America and southern Mexico. And they're absolutely adorable. It's

961
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 1: to me they look like just like like Stitch from

962
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 1: Lelo and Stitch. Uh, that's exactly what it looks like.

963
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 1: They're they're so cute. They got these big eyes, they

964
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 1: got this cute little little smile. They they're furry, they've

965
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 1: got little ears. These I would absolutely let this bat

966
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: drink my blood if I knew there was if this

967
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,440
Speaker 1: bat has like he got his rabies test and when

968
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 1: he's fine, like, you can absolutely have some of my

969
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 1: but blood, you a little sweetie. I would I feel

970
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 1: the exact same way. And these things, these these vampire

971
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: bats are tiny too. Write there. They're little guys. Yeah,

972
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 1: little tiny guys. They just fit in your hand, like

973
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:34,919
Speaker 1: in the palm of your hand. They're not And they

974
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 1: when they drink blood even when it's like these guys,

975
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: the hairy legged vampire bats tend to drink blood from

976
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:47,439
Speaker 1: birds like chickens. Most vampire bats will tend to uh

977
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 1: drink blood from cattle like cows or pigs. Uh. And

978
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 1: they just drink a little bit of blood. They do.

979
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 1: They never suck their prey dry. That's a total myth.

980
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 1: They don't kill their prey. The time their prey dies

981
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 1: is during the inadvertent transmission of something like rabies, which

982
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: is pretty it's still pretty rare. It's like people think

983
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 1: that most bats have rabies. That's not true. The majority

984
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 1: of bats do not have rabies. It's just that the

985
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 1: ones who do you might there's sort of a confirmation

986
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: bias because if there's a sick bat that you find

987
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 1: on the ground kind of struggling and who lets you

988
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 1: pick it up, like, that's more likely to have rabies

989
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 1: than your average bat because it's sick. Um. So I

990
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: still do not advocate, you know, you still be very

991
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 1: careful around bats. Don't just pick up a random bat

992
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 1: you find on the ground. Not a good idea. But

993
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 1: most bats do not have rabies. That they're not just

994
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 1: a bunch of you know, disease things flying around. But

995
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 1: in the same goes for vampire bats. So they don't

996
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 1: kill animals by drinking their blood. And they really they're

997
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 1: all about stealth. It's like a little stealth mission. They

998
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 1: they you know, wait until they see, you know, since

999
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 1: a a nice blood filled animal nearby, and they drop

1000
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 1: down and quickly scamper over to their usually an ankle

1001
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: or something, and just do a little incision with their

1002
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 1: tiny needle like teeth and they actually have really fascinating

1003
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 1: noses that have these little divots that can detect blood flow.

1004
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 1: So they find the they'd be great doctor's assistance to

1005
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 1: help them find a vein to to do an infusion,

1006
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 1: because they have these amazing little little detection organs. But

1007
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 1: they find where they can get a good blood flow,

1008
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 1: do a little incision, just sip a little bit of blood,

1009
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 1: and it really it's not especially when it's like something

1010
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 1: like a pig ora or a cow, like they're they're

1011
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 1: not going to hurt them by drinking their blood. They're

1012
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: not taking enough blood. The animals don't even notice. Probably yeah,

1013
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 1: yeah most of the time, Like it might be kind

1014
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 1: of irritating sometimes, but that's probably probably the worst, Like, yeah, exactly.

1015
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: So they're really not scary at all. In fact, they

1016
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 1: are very sweet and they will in terms of bat society,

1017
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 1: they are very caring about each other and they will

1018
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: share their food with their friends. So bats make friends too,

1019
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 1: just like sharks. Just like people, they will form companionships

1020
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: with specific other bats, and so bats in general have

1021
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 1: very rapid metabolisms, especially vampire bats, and going without a

1022
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 1: meal for too long can kill them. So it only

1023
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: takes three nights of missing meals for a vampire bat

1024
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 1: to die of starvation. Yeah, so that's the saddest thing

1025
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 1: I've ever heard. Well, don't be sad for too long,

1026
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: because bats will help out and neighbor in need. Bats

1027
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: will share food with other bats. If there's a bat

1028
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 1: who's hungry, one of their friends will regurgitate a bit

1029
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 1: of their blood meal for the needy bat. And then

1030
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 1: in the future this bat will reciprocate feeding other friends

1031
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 1: that need food and will help them out in hard times.

1032
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 1: They'll pay it forward. They'll pay it forward. They have

1033
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 1: a bat social safety nut. They're more advanced than the US.

1034
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 1: That's more than can be said for most of the

1035
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: fifty states and our federal government for the most they

1036
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 1: don't even make the bats like sign up for food

1037
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: stamps and there's no means testing. It's just like that thinks.

1038
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: There's no shaming, there's no you're hungry, Yeah, yeah, just

1039
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:29,000
Speaker 1: just come and get a little bit of blood vomb.

1040
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: You know, that's amazing, that's amazing. Do do these bats?

1041
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 1: I'm meant to ask you when when they do the

1042
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: little incision, is there anything in their saliva that's like

1043
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: kind of a coagulation agent, like an anti coagulant. That's well,

1044
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 1: I didn't know, like like, yeah, an anti coagult I

1045
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 1: guess that would be the term that I'm I'm thinking of. Yeah,

1046
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 1: they have an anticoagulant. I don't think they have anything

1047
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 1: that like numbs the area, but they do have an

1048
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 1: anticoagulant that makes the blood low a little easier. These

1049
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 1: things are so highly evolved, they're so so incredible. Yeah,

1050
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 1: they're there. It's it is pretty amazing too that that

1051
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:12,960
Speaker 1: they have their little noses have these tiny pores that

1052
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 1: they can detect heat coming from veins, so they can

1053
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:20,080
Speaker 1: get blood flow pretty easily, so that they can you know,

1054
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 1: so they're not they are surgical. They're like little little

1055
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 1: tiny blood sucking doctors and and so uh. It's in

1056
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 1: a lot of species of animals, like parents who often

1057
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 1: regurgitate food for their offspring, and in use social insects

1058
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 1: like bees and ants, they will regurgitate food for adults,

1059
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:47,959
Speaker 1: but it's within this colony of like sisters of relatives.

1060
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 1: But it's extremely unusual in the animal kingdom for unrelated

1061
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 1: adults who are not interested in mating with each other

1062
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 1: to regurgitate food for each other purely out of a

1063
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 1: sort of like friendship bonding thing that is that's rare,

1064
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 1: that is quite rare, and they will form these these

1065
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 1: close friendships with each other. And researchers have studied these

1066
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 1: vampire bats and they they've found that they form these

1067
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 1: bonds by they take it slow. They like to take

1068
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 1: it slow and build up trust over time. So it's

1069
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:26,560
Speaker 1: not not just like this unthinking like I will feed

1070
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 1: you and then you feed me and then we're good

1071
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 1: capeche like. They will slowly build up trust over times.

1072
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 1: So they'll start off with smaller gestures. Maybe they'll do

1073
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,919
Speaker 1: a little bit of grooming. They're like, you know, check

1074
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 1: for parasitesaw on each other, and they'll groom each other.

1075
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 1: And then and then after they've done some grooming gotten

1076
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:47,439
Speaker 1: to know each other, then maybe they'll share a little

1077
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 1: bit of a blood meal with their new friend. And

1078
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,919
Speaker 1: then the first the first date, at the first date.

1079
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 1: But it's it can what's so incredible is this can

1080
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 1: be completely platonic. They can have no interest in mating,

1081
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:03,440
Speaker 1: and it can be purely just a friendship where you know,

1082
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,640
Speaker 1: where you just regurgitate blood for your friends and yeah,

1083
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 1: exactly everybody. You know, that's that's a normal thing to

1084
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 1: do when your friend needs some regurgitated blood and you've

1085
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:20,439
Speaker 1: got some despair exactly. And uh yeah, so they so

1086
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:24,320
Speaker 1: basically if they are getting they make these small investments

1087
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: early on in the friendship basically to make sure that

1088
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 1: you know, this is a mutual friendship, that that they'll

1089
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 1: they'll it's a give and take. And then they start

1090
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 1: to invest more in their friends. And then it gets

1091
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,200
Speaker 1: to the point where basically like they will you know,

1092
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 1: give them a good amount of food just like when

1093
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 1: they are in need, and then they'll get reciprocated. And

1094
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 1: so it forms this this this safety network, this this

1095
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 1: it's mute bat mutual aid. It's it's very cool. That's

1096
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 1: that's that's amazing. That's uh yeah, like the obviously these

1097
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 1: these uh, these bats live in these huge colonies, and

1098
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 1: I never I never realized just the uh complexity and

1099
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 1: the intricacies of the I mean, they're really societies almost,

1100
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 1: you know, like like you could you could call them.

1101
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 1: They might not uh look like what we think of

1102
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:20,400
Speaker 1: as a society, but when you have complex interactions like that,

1103
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 1: when you have basically bats getting to know each other

1104
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 1: and making sure the other one's cool and and uh

1105
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 1: and helping, like you said, bat mutual aid. That's a

1106
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:35,160
Speaker 1: that's that's pretty that. I can't it can't be stressed

1107
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: enough how highly evolved these things are. And then and

1108
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 1: it's not just vampire abouts. There are lots of different species.

1109
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 1: But that's of course, it depends on the species. There's

1110
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 1: some species that are more solitary. But but a lot

1111
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 1: of species of bats will form these big groups and

1112
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 1: they all they all huddle together in in caves or

1113
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:55,040
Speaker 1: in trees, and they and they form these like big

1114
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 1: communes and they are of of a lot of these

1115
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 1: species of like imunal animals are very like pacifist with

1116
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:06,160
Speaker 1: each other. There aren't really that there's not that much conflict.

1117
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 1: They're very chill, low drama animals. Well, when you're that cute, like,

1118
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 1: you can't you can't get mad at that face. Look

1119
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:16,799
Speaker 1: at the little baby. I one of my favorite pictures

1120
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:19,920
Speaker 1: of a vampire bat. It's a I think this is

1121
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 1: a white, white winged vampire bat. It's it's absolutely it's

1122
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:30,599
Speaker 1: just got a little smile, well turned up nose, yeah,

1123
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:35,480
Speaker 1: well turned up nose. The big ears, yeah, they're adorable.

1124
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,440
Speaker 1: If I could have if I could have one mulligan

1125
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 1: on like an unethical pet, like a pet that I

1126
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:46,320
Speaker 1: really shouldn't have, it would be a bat. Yeah. Absolutely,

1127
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:51,679
Speaker 1: I've seen video of those golden flying fox bats. Yeah,

1128
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 1: those giant ones, and like I've seen I don't know

1129
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 1: if people are illegally keeping them as pets or if

1130
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:02,600
Speaker 1: it's in a sanctuary or what. Those things are the cutest,

1131
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:05,600
Speaker 1: Like they're cuter than like a lot of dogs that

1132
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: I see, you know what I mean, Like they're they're

1133
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 1: just seeing them eating a group. Yes, yes, it's it's

1134
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:15,200
Speaker 1: the most adorable thing in the world. It's like it's

1135
01:09:15,320 --> 01:09:19,040
Speaker 1: it's the cutest video you can imagine. But they're huge too.

1136
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 1: I don't understand the physics and the aerodynamics. Yeah, they're

1137
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 1: they're they're as big as small dogs. Basically they have

1138
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:31,320
Speaker 1: there well they're little. They're actual bodies minus their wings

1139
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:34,680
Speaker 1: is going to be smaller than smaller, smaller than the

1140
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:38,679
Speaker 1: small dog. It's it's gonna be. Uh. Their wingspan though,

1141
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:43,200
Speaker 1: is gigantic because in order to hoist up like even

1142
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:46,360
Speaker 1: even something that's like bigger, they're like a little They're

1143
01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:48,720
Speaker 1: they're actual body sizes maybe a little bigger than a

1144
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 1: rat um, like a large rat so they need a

1145
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 1: massive wingspan to keep them aloft. So like when you

1146
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 1: look at them wings and all, they're truly giant. I

1147
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:03,680
Speaker 1: also like that they're called megabouts. The biggest megabouts is

1148
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:08,240
Speaker 1: the great flying fox. Megabat is such a yeah, and

1149
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:13,000
Speaker 1: they can. They They only weigh about a little over

1150
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:17,240
Speaker 1: three pounds or one point six ks, so pretty small

1151
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:23,120
Speaker 1: in total. But their wingspan is almost six ft or

1152
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:28,519
Speaker 1: almost two meters long, so yeah, it's huge. Yeah, yeah,

1153
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:31,000
Speaker 1: so they But it's what you're asking, like, how do

1154
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:32,800
Speaker 1: they even get in the air. That's the answer. They're

1155
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:36,600
Speaker 1: pretty lightweight, but they have a huge wingspan because the

1156
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:39,479
Speaker 1: bigger you are, the bigger wings you need to be

1157
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:41,680
Speaker 1: able to get up in the air. This has been

1158
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:46,000
Speaker 1: the most educational experience I've ever had with bats since

1159
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 1: ace Ventura too. Don't where he eats? Yes, exactly, this

1160
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:55,960
Speaker 1: is This has been so much fun. Well, I'm I'm

1161
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:58,760
Speaker 1: glad to be in the company of a fellow bat appreciator.

1162
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:02,639
Speaker 1: I love them, so obviously we shouldn't keep bats as pets.

1163
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:05,240
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, if I could have one Mulligan on

1164
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:08,040
Speaker 1: an unethical pet. It would be bad because they're so cute.

1165
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 1: But don't don't have bats as pets. I might. It's

1166
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:16,680
Speaker 1: illegal in North Carolina to own a raven, but I

1167
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:19,480
Speaker 1: think that might be my mulligan because of how intelligent

1168
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 1: those things are, and I love them so much. You

1169
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,559
Speaker 1: would be it would be like living with a two

1170
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 1: year old who can claw and bite at you. Though

1171
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:32,760
Speaker 1: intelligent birds. As much as I love intelligent birds, I

1172
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 1: would never want one as a pet because they would

1173
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 1: It's like a little dinosaur that has the brain of

1174
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:43,000
Speaker 1: a two year old and and know and knows how

1175
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:45,799
Speaker 1: to inflict pain. I have a friend who knows exactly

1176
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:49,360
Speaker 1: what it's like taking care of like a cockatoo, and

1177
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:52,679
Speaker 1: and ravens are quite intelligent as well. I'm gonna show you.

1178
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:56,280
Speaker 1: I'll send you a YouTube video of someone who takes

1179
01:11:56,320 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 1: care of a bunch of big birds in a is

1180
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 1: like a bird sanctuary, and she has a raven and

1181
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 1: she's like, she's basically, this is not my pet. This

1182
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:11,799
Speaker 1: is a raven who has decided to be my tenant

1183
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:16,200
Speaker 1: in this this aviary. You know, we have to come

1184
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:19,599
Speaker 1: to basic agreements. But if she doesn't want to do something,

1185
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:22,960
Speaker 1: she's not going to do something. So they are very

1186
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:26,240
Speaker 1: independent and so I feel like if if I was

1187
01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 1: if I was to have an unethical familiar, I'd want

1188
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:31,559
Speaker 1: a bat because I think they'd just be real chill.

1189
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:33,840
Speaker 1: I probably need more than one bat, though, because I

1190
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:36,639
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to isolate them from from their companions. Yeah,

1191
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 1: like you have to have bat friends, and that's live

1192
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:41,360
Speaker 1: in a cave with a bunch of bats. Yeah, that

1193
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 1: that's under the same mulligan though, Like exactly, you don't

1194
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,920
Speaker 1: need a bunch of individual Mulligan's for that, Like a

1195
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 1: flock of bath exactly exactly. And I let them all

1196
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:57,799
Speaker 1: drink by blood and I could probably pass out. Hopefully

1197
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:01,639
Speaker 1: you're not iron deficient or anything like that. Up get

1198
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:03,639
Speaker 1: anemia and I'd go to the doctor. It's like, oh,

1199
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:09,680
Speaker 1: you have severe anemia. It's like, Katie, has anything recently

1200
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:14,880
Speaker 1: changed in your life? Any any major? Uh? You know?

1201
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:20,000
Speaker 1: I adopted a flock of vampire bats, which to no dairy.

1202
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:26,479
Speaker 1: It's probably the no dairy. It's probably the no dairy thing. Yes, exactly, exactly. Well, Christie,

1203
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:29,000
Speaker 1: I am a Gucci mane. Thank you so much for

1204
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 1: being on the show today and for highlighting the sweet

1205
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 1: cute sides of some animals who are unfairly in theligne. Uh.

1206
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:42,880
Speaker 1: Where can people find you? You can find me on

1207
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 1: Twitter at Wapple House w A P P L E

1208
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:50,439
Speaker 1: h O U s E UM. That's the easiest way

1209
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:54,799
Speaker 1: to keep up with me and other shows that I host,

1210
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 1: like Hour after Hours in George Center. UM, and that's

1211
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 1: basically it. Let's listen to those shows if you're a

1212
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:07,400
Speaker 1: fan of Dan Lebottard show, UM kinda sports radio UM

1213
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:09,360
Speaker 1: type of type of thing. If you're a fan of

1214
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:12,559
Speaker 1: his show. We do a podcast that kind of revolves

1215
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:15,679
Speaker 1: around that universe called Hour after Hours. And then George

1216
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:19,800
Speaker 1: Center Pod is me and uh four of the funniest

1217
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:23,799
Speaker 1: people I have ever met or heard. They're just lifelong

1218
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:28,320
Speaker 1: friends of mine and blood into their mouths. Yeah, absolutely,

1219
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:31,760
Speaker 1: I have many times, um, usually after a long night

1220
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:35,839
Speaker 1: of drinking, uh, you know, doing doing drugs and stuff.

1221
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:39,080
Speaker 1: You know it it Uh, it's it's a good hangover

1222
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:42,760
Speaker 1: remedy basically, is what I'm saying. But you know the

1223
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:47,960
Speaker 1: saying like, uh, friendships are great if they outlast the

1224
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 1: battery and a shark tracking device or and or if

1225
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:53,400
Speaker 1: they vomit a little bit of blood in your mouth,

1226
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:55,439
Speaker 1: you know. I think I have that on a cross

1227
01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:57,840
Speaker 1: stitch hanging up in the hallway. I think my grandma

1228
01:14:57,960 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 1: made made one of those for me when I was

1229
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:02,280
Speaker 1: very little. So I've got one of those wood burnings

1230
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:05,479
Speaker 1: that's like live, laugh, let your friendships less longer than

1231
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 1: a shark tracking device, and vomit letting your friends male.

1232
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:13,200
Speaker 1: It's a little corny, but yeah, I mean it's is

1233
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 1: it long winded? Sure? But is it? Is it? You know?

1234
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:18,680
Speaker 1: Is it a life? Is this saying that we're very

1235
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:21,880
Speaker 1: familiar with for a reason, Yes, because it's true. It's

1236
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 1: very true, one of those eternal truths. Well, you can

1237
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:28,439
Speaker 1: find the show on the internet at Creature Feature Pod

1238
01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 1: on Instagram, at Creature feet pot on Twitter. That's Eppy

1239
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:36,599
Speaker 1: eating something very different. And of course, uh you can

1240
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 1: send in emails at Creature Feature Pod at gmail dot

1241
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:44,920
Speaker 1: com where you can send in all your questions, your

1242
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 1: pictures of your cute little doggies and kiddies and pets.

1243
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:52,360
Speaker 1: And uh, I'm also Katie Golden on the internet at

1244
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 1: Katie Golden on Twitter. Uh. So, yeah, thank you so

1245
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:58,560
Speaker 1: much for listening. If you're enjoying the show and you

1246
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:03,000
Speaker 1: have like just a minute to spare, you could press

1247
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 1: that the star buttons give it a rating. If you

1248
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 1: have even a little more time and you give it

1249
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:11,040
Speaker 1: a review, I will read it. I read all the reviews.

1250
01:16:11,120 --> 01:16:13,760
Speaker 1: They absolutely make my day. They make me smile. Thank

1251
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 1: you for doing that, and thanks for the space concerts

1252
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:19,240
Speaker 1: for the super awesome song. Ex Alumina Creature features a

1253
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:22,120
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts like the

1254
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:24,400
Speaker 1: one you just heard, visit the I heart Radio app

1255
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:26,680
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or Hey guess what wherever you listen to

1256
01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 1: your favorite shows, I don't judge. See you next Wednesday.