WEBVTT - After Her Disastrous Date, DeAnna Needs Therapy 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.400 iHeart podcasts, bring you the ultimate Summer of love Tree. 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:10.160 This is famously Available. Welcome back to Famously Available. I'm 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:12.720 your host, Ben Higgins, and this week I decided to 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:17.520 enlist some professional help for our famously available gal Dianna. 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:21.239 After that date didn't go so well. I'm bringing in 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:26.799 psychologist doctor Hillary gold Shure to go in deep with Diana. 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:31.360 Doctor Hillary does in depth work in the arena of relationships, 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:35.760 guiding couples and individuals in all seasons of life such 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:43.000 as premarital, married, separated, divorce, and high conflict divorce. I've 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:47.680 raved about my own experience with therapy, especially after a breakup, 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:49.960 so I think this will be really good for Deanna. 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:52.160 So ladies take it away. 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.760 Hi, doctor Hillary, I'm Deanna. Thanks for coming in today. 0:00:55.960 --> 0:01:00.080 I'm here for you to fix me, heal me, and 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:00.960 and make me better. 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:02.320 Wow. 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:05.640 If I could do that in one therapy session, I 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:07.760 would be an incredibly sought after therapist. 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:10.080 But I will do my best under the circumstances. 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:15.039 So I am a licensed clinical psychologist, and I am 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:19.000 an expert in relationships stuff, and one of my areas 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:22.479 of expertise in particular is divorce and high conflict, divorces, 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:26.560 and co parenting, and so it may or may not 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:27.160 be relevant. 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:31.240 You'll have to tell me be relevant, doctor Hillary. So 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:31.840 under that. 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:37.160 Umbrella, of course, is often the world of dating and 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:40.800 the unfolding of a new season of relationships in the 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:43.200 after marriage. I like to call it the period of 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.520 time when someone is divorced. So it sounds like, from 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:48.960 what I understand, you are square in the middle of 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:51.240 that trajectory. 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:52.000 You know what. 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:55.440 I was having this thought this morning. I was just 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:57.560 running through much of my morning and I was thinking, like, 0:01:57.600 --> 0:01:58.960 when I talked to you, I was really scared that 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.520 you were gonna be like, Okay, well you're not healed. 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:03.440 You don't need to date, you don't need to do 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:08.760 these things. And I listen. I'm an advocate for therapy. 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.080 I believe in therapy. I believe in all of the 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:13.799 help that you can possibly get. I'm in therapy right 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:17.080 now and have been over the years. So I don't 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.680 believe that healing just happens that one day you wake 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.280 up and you're cured because you've done eight sessions with therapists, right. 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:28.400 I believe that healing is a life situation that we 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.400 are currently being refined to be our best selves, and 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:33.240 that is a goal of mine and always has been. 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.639 But I started running through just kind of my dating 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:40.360 history in my own brain this morning as I was 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.600 looking at have I ever really had an example of 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:45.600 a healthy relationship? And I don't think that I have, 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:50.040 Doctor Hillary. My parents divorced when I was really young, 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:52.920 and I would say that they were absolutely high conflict. 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:55.680 So one of the few things that it taught me 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:59.920 is what I don't want to be for my own children. 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.600 Oddly enough, my ex husband and I are high conflict. 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:07.760 We are not friends. I have a lot of bitterness, resentment, 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:11.160 and hatred towards him. And it was so interesting because 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.800 when we were divorcing, even though it wasn't something that 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.680 I asked for, I had that mental note that, like, 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:22.040 I don't want to do to my children what my 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:24.959 parents did to me. So you know, I work really 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:27.680 hard at not speaking negatively about their father, because the 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:31.800 truth is our marriage ended, we are no longer together, 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.040 and I may have my own feelings and some of 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:37.680 those can be valid and not, but the truth is 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:41.120 my children deserve to have their father and love their father. 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:43.840 That's what they get. I don't want them to carry 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:47.560 the burden of the unhealth that took place within myself 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:50.280 or with him or within our marriage. So I have 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.920 really worked very hard. And people don't talk about that 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.360 co parenting with someone that you absolutely hate, you know 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:00.240 what I mean, or how difficult that is with the 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.960 history between us and stuff. So long story short, I 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:06.840 started running through the gamut in my own head of relationships. 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:08.600 My parents divorced when I was very young, and it 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.760 was very toxic. I watched them fight a lot. I 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.480 have dated throughout my life. I am no spring chicken. 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:17.280 I am forty three years old, and I started looking 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:19.520 at some of the relationships that I have been in, 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:21.919 and I don't know that they were good examples of 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:26.760 what a healthy, loving relationship looks like. And then before 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.479 I got married, you know, and I have a history 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:32.440 on television. I literally went on a dating show, which 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:36.040 is a whole other session here, doctor Hillary. But I 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:38.960 believe that I was a securely attached woman when my 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:41.960 ex husband and I met. I had a very healthy 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.400 outlook on relationships and what they should be like. And 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:51.320 somewhere along the way I became a very anxiously attached woman. 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:56.040 I clung to a marriage on hands and knees some days, 0:04:56.400 --> 0:05:01.039 and I don't know now looking back anxious attachment that 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:04.160 was triggered at the time. But it's so funny because 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:06.159 I have done a DSM five since and I have 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:11.800 been evaluated, and I actually scored really well. My anxiety 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:15.920 and my CPTSD is significantly lower. I'm no longer living 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.600 in a fight or flight, but that I also, again, 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:23.960 several years after my divorce, tested as a securely attached woman. 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.400 But sometimes I wonder what is still broken because I 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.520 haven't I don't know that I know what a healthy 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:33.320 relationship looks like. So I'll let you take it. 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:38.240 Yeah, We've brought up so many important, nuanced issues that 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:40.440 I'm really happy I have a chance to talk about, 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.800 which is so two things can be true at the 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.240 same time, which is often the case in life. But 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:50.240 in this circumstance, I'm sure it's true that under certain 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.640 circumstances and in certain seasons of your life, you are 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.920 clearly a securely attached person. You've tested as much, and 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:01.080 you know yourself well enough to sort of endorse that 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:03.880 that has felt true at seasons in your life, and 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:07.839 it sounds like at other seasons it's pivoted, and that 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.599 often happens under the umbrella of trauma. 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:12.680 What I mean is this, if it's true that. 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:16.159 You came from a family where there was a high conflict, example, 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:20.039 as your primary model for a relationship, a high conflict divorce, 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:24.360 I imagine there was some version of and I'm careful 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.480 with this word, but some version of trauma as a 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:30.200 child of divorce parents and witnessing those kind of dynamics, right, 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:34.600 and so you'd be pulled to internalize a more anxious 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:38.919 or avoidant attachment style. It sounds like an intersection of 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:41.159 your own disposition, just like how you came into the 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.479 world and the therapeutic work that you have done land 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:47.560 in you in a place of secure attachment at least 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.279 having the skill set to show up that way. But 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:57.240 under stress and dress, trauma returns. Trauma responses return sometimes 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:01.200 and we're much more vulnerable to show sort of immersed 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:04.320 in the old patterns that are rooted in trauma. And 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:06.159 so for you, I think both are true that you 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.120 can and are securely it can be and are a 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:12.760 securely attached person, but under stress and duress, that old 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:15.400 pull for those old patterns and the things that you 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:18.960 witnessed and saw might show up without you even realizing 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.320 it until to your point you're add a fight or flight. 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:24.680 You're odd of your nervous system being so activated that 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.400 you then have an opportunity to be outside of your 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:28.600 feelings versus in them. 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.720 I really appreciate that, doctor Hillary, because I was afraid 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:34.120 I was going to leave here today and you were 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:38.920 going to diagnose me with borderline personality disorder, severe depression, schizophrenia, 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.760 whatever is on the gambit. You know, because there are 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:44.160 times where I have felt like in and I know 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:45.800 this now through a lot, and I've done a lot 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:50.760 of trauma work in particular, that I have felt nuts. 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:53.560 And I do know that women of emotional abuse or 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.480 narcissistic abuse, we tend to look at us and go, Okay, 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:58.840 I'm crazy, something is wrong with me. I ended up 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:00.760 in therapy and I kept looking at my going, what's 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:05.440 wrong with me? I am crazy? There's something wrong here, 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:07.880 Please fix me. Something is wrong. And I've done enough 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:10.200 work to know that it's not always me. I'm not 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:14.440 saying that I didn't add too. I am not perfect 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.559 by any means, but I do know that I don't 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:22.480 have to carry the responsibility of all of it anymore. 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:24.760 So I am joking when I say that that you 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.600 were going to leave here and tell everybody I'm famously available. 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:31.680 That I'm absolutely not tape. But there are pieces for 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:34.839 me to carry. And that is why I have done 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:36.720 so much work and so much therapy on myself. Is 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.800 because my goal in life, my prayer to my higher 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:42.800 power is like I want to be a good woman. 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.480 I want to be a good mother and eventually a 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:51.040 good partner like I do really want that. I do 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.640 really want a great, great love. And the other big piece, 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:57.680 Chuctor Hillary, is I don't want to make the same 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.280 mistakes that I have made in the past. I don't 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:05.880 live a life of regret. I obviously have two really beautiful, 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:11.800 wonderful children. There is a reason my husband and I 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:15.160 came together and connected. Sometimes I have a really hard 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:20.760 time finding those but I have two wonderful children. There 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.160 is a purpose in life that he and I were 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:26.319 supposed to be together. We were supposed to have these 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.800 really great children. And I just believe that there is 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.200 something guiding me to different things, and in order to 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:33.920 get to those things, I am a constant work on 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:37.120 myself and refinement because that is the truth. I want 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:38.800 to be better, I want to be healthier. I don't 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:41.560 want to make the same mistakes. I do not want 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:45.439 to dismiss the same red flags and a relationship. 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:48.360 Ever again, yes, I mean it is. 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:52.400 It may seem paradoxical, but it's a very empowering stance 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:56.680 that you're describing, which is acknowledging that every dynamic is 0:09:56.679 --> 0:10:01.239 co created, right, every dynastic, even if all we contributed, 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:05.040 I'm putting, like all we contributed quotes is to stay 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.439 longer than we should have. Right, even if that's it, 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.400 that's still a dynamic that we bring. Yes, And so 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:15.319 in your circumstance, when a relationship is painful and high 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:21.320 conflict and we have resentment and the history of toxicity, 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:24.240 being able to understand what your part is and what 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:25.520 you created is critical. 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:27.000 It's not about blame or shame. 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:31.200 It's about empowerment and self reflection and understanding. So I 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.840 really like the way that you're talking about it, and 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:36.520 the really nice thing about where you've arrived. And I 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.480 highlighted this earlier, but I think it's so important. It's 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:41.959 one of the keys in my view to psychological health, 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:45.640 which is the ability to be inside the feeling or 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.640 outside the feeling. And when you're looking at your therapists 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:49.840 and saying, what's wrong with me? 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:51.440 Why did I do that? Why did I say that? 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:52.520 What did I show up that way? 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.160 If that's part of what you were conveying, that's you 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.280 at that moment inside the feeling. Right, we're angry, we're 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:03.280 we're resent full, we're sad, depressed, whatever the thing is, 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:07.000 we're ashamed, and we show up embodying the feeling. And 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.440 when we're in the feeling, it's really hard to make choices. 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:11.040 It's really hard to feel like we have a bunch 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:12.920 of options in terms of how we can show up. 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:15.920 We're just operating from the feeling, and often that's anger, 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:18.520 and then later we may have regretted about how we 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:22.000 showed up the skill of being able to be outside 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.920 the feeling, meaning looking at it, acknowledging it, talking about it, 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:28.800 advocating around it. So that doesn't mean we don't say 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:30.760 I don't like the way you're talking to me, I 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:32.679 don't like the way you're treating me. I won't let 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:36.599 you speak to me that way. Right, that's advocacy versus aggression. 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.200 So the minute we're outside the feeling, we have all 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.600 sorts of choices about how we want to show up 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:43.320 and how we want to communicate, what we need, what 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.280 we want, how we want to set boundaries. Inside the feeling, 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.320 we almost have no choices other than being led by 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.720 this feeling that we don't have any say in. And 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.640 so I really like to talk about this difference is 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.000 to nuance. But once you deeply understand it and you 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.520 have the goal to recognize when you're in and when 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:02.000 you're out. 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:03.400 When you're in, you. 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:05.800 Can take a pause, you can take a break, you 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:09.240 can come back later after resetting, because we know when 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:11.880 we're in the feeling, we don't usually get anywhere that 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:14.120 feels good. And then we we're outside of the feeling, 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:15.800 we can make a plan for what we want to 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:17.040 do on our own behalf. 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:30.120 Gosh, you said so many nuggets of truth. I have 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.880 forgotten at times that we're recording a podcast because I 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:37.120 love therapy. I love therapy, I love the deep dive. 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.040 I love to take a hard look at me and 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:42.600 work on the things that I need to work on. 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:45.000 And what came to mind for me when you just 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.040 said that is that I have a real problem with perfectionism, 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:53.479 and I don't like for people to view me as 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.520 and I'll share some of the words that have been 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.760 used against me right difficult that I'm too difficult to 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:05.640 let you know in moments of pain where I didn't 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.040 feel like I could stand up for myself because I 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.760 didn't want to be too difficult. It was too difficult 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:14.000 to be loved in my marriage because I had an opinion. 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:18.200 And I'm not saying that I always went about my 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:23.280 opinion in the best way. I am a very strong personality. 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.040 I am very very passionate about the things that I 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.840 do believe in, and I have a real problem with 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:36.800 expecting people to be like me. Like, just to put 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:42.720 it in the dumbest terms, yeah possible. I love really hard. 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:47.319 I am loyal to a fault to myself, a detriment 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:49.920 to myself. I am that loyal. I will go to 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.880 the grave for the people that I love. My biggest 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.400 moments of joy and happiness was when I was together 0:13:57.520 --> 0:13:59.680 with my ex husband and his family, and we were 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.800 together and enjoyful and laughing, and at times I chose 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.080 them over my own family. I am loyal to a 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:10.400 fault to myself, and what has been really difficult for me, 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:15.080 and a learning experience is that I expected others to 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:19.960 be that way because I was that way. I what's 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:24.240 it called when you put it on someone else? Yes, 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.200 I projected that. I projected that I wanted the people 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.120 around me to love me and choose me because I 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:33.040 did it at all costs to detriment to myself. And 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:36.280 then when I was viewed as being too difficult or 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:39.600 too challenging to love, I was too scared to speak 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.520 up for what I thought was right or my opinion 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:46.360 because I didn't want to be dubbed too difficult, too challenging. 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.400 Because there is a lot of beauty in those things. 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:52.960 I am not one to sweep under the rug and 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.360 pretend like it's perfect. I'm just not. That's not how 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:58.120 I live life. So in general, for any man that 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.600 wants to to jump into a relationship with me or 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:04.400 a dating scenario, that's not who I am. Life to 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.040 me is not perfect, and I deal with hard things 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.360 and I am willing to face them head on. But 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:15.000 I am not a person who can pretend that hard 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.400 things don't happen. HAVE been through a lot of hard 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:20.880 things in my life. I have had to endure some 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:26.040 really difficult things, and it does me personally a disservice 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.720 to stuff those I am not a stuffer. I cannot 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:32.160 function that way. But I share all of this with 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:34.400 you because I guess I'm looking for advice when it 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:40.040 comes to relationships and the deepness that I crave. I 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.240 do not do surface level well. I am a deep 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.320 lover in all relationships and all capacity of my life. 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.440 I need that deep connection, that is what I need. 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:54.520 I tend to project that on the other people around 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.720 me because I want them to love like I do. 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.040 And the truth is not everyone is capable of that. 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:05.000 So I think what I am asking you is, with 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:09.920 that little nuggative truth, what do I do in that scenario? 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.000 What am I choosing wrong? Is my picker off? Is 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:13.880 that what's wrong here? 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:16.320 You know? 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:17.360 Maybe maybe not. 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.160 I think there's sort of a macro theme here and 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:24.920 then like in the weeds of being in a real 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.320 relationship and what it's like to show up when you 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:31.000 have conflict or misalignment. So on a macro basis, it 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:34.600 seems like you need to find someone who is interested 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.320 in that kind of growth, that kind of expansion, that 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.440 a thematic notion of like I'm a person who likes 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.520 to think about things, process things, and I consider it 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.720 intimate to work through conflict with my partner, Like you 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.880 should find someone who has an interest around that, a 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:53.920 language around that, an ability. 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:53.960 To do that. 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:56.960 You were doctor Hillary, I should. 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:02.000 Well, I mean, because I mean look at if we 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:06.040 get unemotional about it an objective. We can even say 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.240 that it's not about right or wrong or good or bad. 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:12.719 Maybe your way isn't right and another guy's way of 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:14.639 like I don't like to do those things. I like 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:16.159 to kind of skate on the surface. We don't have 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:18.080 to call it right or wrong, but they should be 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.520 somewhat aligned. You should have sort of a mutual goal 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.720 of like, yes, that's something, that's a language I'm interested in, 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.560 that's something I'm looking for. Is that kind of depth, 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.520 that kind of intimacy, that kind of passion, Because certainly, 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.919 in my experience from a clinical standpoint, when you have 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.520 a relationship that that includes those aspects, it's intimacy building. 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.399 It's bonding to be able to work through hard things 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:43.639 and share vulnerable feelings and get to know your partners 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:46.680 like pain points and care about them. Not everyone wants 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.000 to have relationships like that. But if you do, you 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.280 want at least find someone that's up for that or 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:52.080 interested in it. 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:53.800 Man, I'm going to reapt you real quick because I 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:56.879 like that that's the way that you labeled it, and 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:00.720 I just have this like epiphany believe that is what 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:04.800 I crave, is the emotional intimacy in a relationship. And 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:08.840 I've never used those words to describe it that way, 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.000 but I think you hit the nail on the head. 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:13.760 That's what I want. I want emotional intimacy. 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:19.879 People don't often conceptualize working through conflict and difficulty as that, 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:24.840 but as a couple's therapist, when you guide and support 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:28.360 couples to work through hard things in like a caring, 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:33.480 invested way, even when it's conflictual and painful, when they 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:36.680 come out the other end, it's intimacy building, it's bonding, 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.640 and it's lovely. I mean, that kind of depth can 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:41.960 be reached myriad of ways, but that's certainly one of them. 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:43.919 And if that resonates with you, it's good to know, 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:45.480 and it's a good way to be able to talk 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:49.399 about it and like put words to it when you 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.520 get into that relationship, when you have a candidate that's 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:55.040 at least somewhere like in the ballpark of interest and 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:58.320 emotional intimacy a couple of things one and you already 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.960 acknowledge this. It doesn't have to look like your version 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:06.720 of emotional intimacy. You have to broker something that mutually resonates, right, 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:08.800 And we'll get into that. But it's a good thing 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.800 to know about yourself that if you look for it 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:15.120 to be exactly like how you do it, that might 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.280 get you in trouble because people have different ways to 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:22.600 get there and different needs to have and seek support 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.960 to get there, and so the goal of emotional intimacy 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:28.680 can be reached a plethora of ways, and so being 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:31.639 open to how you get there versus how a partner 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:33.840 gets there and kind of co creating something that works 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:36.520 for both. And I want to say this to allude 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:38.040 to some of the things you brought up, which is 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:44.240 that you know it's all in my view about the messaging, right, 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:48.439 and so your interest in not sweeping things under the 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.600 rug and calling things out and being truthful about your 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:55.280 emotions and a relationship, I think is an appropriate way 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.720 to move through relationships in general. Unless two people agree 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.040 like that's just not how we're going to do it, 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.520 and that's good for us. But in general, that is 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:07.239 my recommendation because the more we suppress, the more we 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:11.639 have symptoms, and symptoms in a relationship look like disconnection, 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:17.280 lack of intimacy, agitation, irritation, disconnection, all the things right, 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:19.040 And so the more we suppress, there. 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:20.680 Is going to be emotional rent to pay it. 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:21.080 Just this. 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.919 And so if you suppress, like it sounds like you 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:27.080 did at some point in your previous relationship. 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.720 I never never suppressed. Maybe that's wrong. 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:36.080 Well it comes out some other way. So either you're 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:40.520 you're not curating how you're you're communicating it and it's 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:45.160 hard to digest, or one is suppressing and there's symptoms 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:45.760 that arise. 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:47.159 So you have to figure out. 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:51.000 A delivery system that works right, that is that is 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:53.919 digestible to the other. And I think that's where we 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:57.000 can get creative and have a lot of growth. Is 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.840 that I often say in my own relationships with my 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:03.560 own young children, you know my message is on point, 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:06.080 you know my delivery might have been off that time, right, 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:09.399 And so the message is something we want to be 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:15.320 deeply you know, committed to invested in precious sacred with right, 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:18.439 but how we deliver it. We should co create what 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:21.000 works for our partner. Is there a certain tone that 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:24.400 doesn't feel supportive? Is there a certain time of day 0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:27.040 that feels like it's too overwhelming? Is there a way 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:29.959 to move into a conversation about someone like asking them 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:33.200 if they're available for a hard time that gets them 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:34.000 more grounded? 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:34.360 Right? 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:37.560 That we should try to broker and negotiate. How do 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:40.840