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Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Brown Ambition. Today, it's

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Speaker 1: time for the BAQA. This is the question and answer

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Speaker 1: show where I take your questions and I give you

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Speaker 1: my best answers lowercase A. Please don't sue me. I

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Speaker 1: ain't got it. You're gonna be very disappointed. I am

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Speaker 1: the friend and your head. I am a longtime personal

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Speaker 1: finance expert journalist. You know, the credits go on and

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Speaker 1: on and on. At the end of the day, I

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Speaker 1: am not your personal financial advisor. I don't know anything

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Speaker 1: about y'all really other than what you tell me. But

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Speaker 1: hopefully what I give you can be used to just

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Speaker 1: you know, inform whatever choices you make. It's a little infotainment.

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Speaker 1: But again, don't sue me. Did I cover that? Got it? Okay? Cool,

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Speaker 1: let's move on. I have a really good question from

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Speaker 1: a longtime listener girl, Courtney. I love getting your dms.

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Speaker 1: You are always sharing so much positivity with me, and

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Speaker 1: I had the pleasure I think of meeting you at

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Speaker 1: one of my our only live show and a half

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Speaker 1: ago or so. So Hey, Courtney, it's so nice to

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Speaker 1: hear from you, and you actually had a great question.

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Speaker 1: Courtney sent me this reel from IG which tuckles something

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Speaker 1: that we've never really talked about on Brown Ambition, which

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Speaker 1: is how employers verify where you have previously worked and

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Speaker 1: what data actually they are collecting. So let me play

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Speaker 1: this for y'all and then I will answer Courtney's question.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So yesterday I shared a story about a Rise

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Speaker 2: member who got a verbal job offer after going down

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Speaker 2: the path of multiple interviews. The final person extended a

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Speaker 2: verbal offer and was like, you're going to hear it

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Speaker 2: from us in a couple of days. We're just putting

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Speaker 2: everything together. Keep an eye out for a formal email,

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Speaker 2: formal offer. A couple days later, she gets a phone

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Speaker 2: call from that same person that said, actually, we are

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Speaker 2: not going to offer you this job. The CEO doesn't

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Speaker 2: feel comfortable hiring somebody that hasn't had full time employment

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Speaker 2: in ten months. Obviously, got a lot of comments this

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Speaker 2: is happening to many people in the job market right now.

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Speaker 2: But a lot of comments are like, who's the company,

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Speaker 2: what's going on? How are companies and CEOs so out

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Speaker 2: of touch but allowed to treat people this way? And

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Speaker 2: one comment really stuck out to me. It was this

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Speaker 2: one always lie and freeze your the work number account. Now,

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Speaker 2: for those of you who don't know what the work

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Speaker 2: number account is, it's essentially the place that employers go

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Speaker 2: to verify that what you put on your resume is true. Right.

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Speaker 2: They want to make sure that you are who you

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Speaker 2: said you are, you have the experience you said, you

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Speaker 2: have references. And this also it takes into account like

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Speaker 2: your actual employment contract, and I'm like, you can freeze

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Speaker 2: that account. I have control over that. I thought it

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Speaker 2: was just like whatever information they have about me out

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Speaker 2: there from the jobs, right, Like you have an employment contract,

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Speaker 2: you put your Social Security number in. I'm like, all

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Speaker 2: this stuff is probably out there somewhere and people can

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Speaker 2: verify that it's real. I went online today and I

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Speaker 2: found my own work number account, signed up, got the

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Speaker 2: account downloaded it. One whole job that I had that

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Speaker 2: it was part a big part of my career is

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Speaker 2: not on it. So a job that I worked at

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Speaker 2: for over a year that I have on my resume

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Speaker 2: on my LinkedIn as something that did shape my career

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Speaker 2: and unfortunately I was laid off because of COVID is

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Speaker 2: not on there. But like jobs that I've had at restaurants,

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Speaker 2: jobs that I had at a gym when I was

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Speaker 2: a personal trainer years ago. That's on my work number account,

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Speaker 2: but a job that I would consider important in the

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Speaker 2: process of me looking for work these multiple times I

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Speaker 2: have been laid off, wasn't there. So I'm like, did

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Speaker 2: I get go through interviews and then not hear from people?

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Speaker 2: Did I go down processes with companies and then they

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Speaker 2: go look at my work number account and something's not

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Speaker 2: there and they're like, this doesn't line up. We don't

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Speaker 2: want to move forward with her. And nobody said anything

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Speaker 2: to me like I need to know from hiring managers

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Speaker 2: and recruiters, like how you use this work number account.

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Speaker 2: But also I would if I was you looking for

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Speaker 2: any job, unemployed, employed, whatever it is, I would go

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Speaker 2: online to your work number account verify that the things

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Speaker 2: that are on there are actually true about you. This

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Speaker 2: person commented a few other comments underneath this same comment

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Speaker 2: about what to do and how to handle it, and

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Speaker 2: I thought it was super helpful. So you can freeze

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Speaker 2: your information, you can also like pick and choose what

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Speaker 2: they can see. This might make it harder for a

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Speaker 2: company to quickly verify what's going on there. You might

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Speaker 2: have to provide references you might have to provide other

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Speaker 2: proof like W two's pay stuffs, those kinds of things,

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Speaker 2: but at least you're in control of the information that

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Speaker 2: they are looking up about you.

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Speaker 1: I'm mind blown, all right, So I do want to

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Speaker 1: credit that account. That's Giovanna Ventola from Instagram. All right.

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Speaker 1: So Courtney shared this with me. She said, Hey, Mandy,

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Speaker 1: it's been a while. I came across this video and

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Speaker 1: I wondered if you could do an episode on this topic.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Courtney. Again, I have loved and just

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Speaker 1: so appreciated your support over the years. Let's get into it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so work market? What even is work market? What is

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Speaker 1: your work market account? Why have we never heard about this?

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Speaker 1: I think all of us by now understands that big

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Speaker 1: data is a thing that no matter what we do,

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Speaker 1: every time you try to go to the grocery store

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Speaker 1: or sign up for I mean this morning, while I

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Speaker 1: was paying for parking at the train station, it was

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Speaker 1: like check this box, and I'm sure that the agreement

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Speaker 1: I signing up for said we going to take your data, girl,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna do whatever we want with it. Big

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Speaker 1: data is a thing, and this data that they collect

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Speaker 1: on consumers is bundled up and it's sold in many

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Speaker 1: different ways. So in this case, when you're a big employer,

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Speaker 1: you know, and this typically is used by a big

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Speaker 1: employer who needs to needs to process a lot of

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Speaker 1: you know, new employees, new hires, do background checks. And

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Speaker 1: the way that they can do this at scale is

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Speaker 1: to partner or pay for something like the work market.

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Speaker 1: There's also one called true work on one word. That's

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Speaker 1: another big one that big employers can use. And what

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Speaker 1: these companies do is they have your data. They know

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Speaker 1: where you've lived, they know the types of companies that

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Speaker 1: you've worked for. They've got your sometimes your social Security,

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Speaker 1: your date of birth, like past addresses. It's a lot

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Speaker 1: like and I believe the work number is actually owned

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Speaker 1: by Equifax, which is one of the major credit reporting

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Speaker 1: reporting bureaus. Right, a lot like the credit reporting bureaus

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Speaker 1: have all your info, so do these companies. And it's

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Speaker 1: fairly innocuous, right when an employer wants to verify where

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Speaker 1: you've worked before, they're not going to use that data

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Speaker 1: in like a malignant way. They're genuinely just wanting to

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Speaker 1: be sure that this person is who they say they are,

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Speaker 1: and that the record of their employment lines up with

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Speaker 1: their resume, with their LinkedIn whatever it is that you

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Speaker 1: have submitted. As a former hiring manager myself, I didn't

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Speaker 1: work for a company that used a service like this.

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Speaker 1: We did our background check and verification internally, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of companies, do you know, that's when they call up,

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Speaker 1: you know, a former employer, or they call up a

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Speaker 1: university you know, enrollment office or admissions office to be

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Speaker 1: sure that you completed the degree that you said you did.

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Speaker 1: We did that manually. And yeah, there was a one

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Speaker 1: time where a new employee of mine lied about having

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Speaker 1: a master's I believe in finance or journalism or something,

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Speaker 1: and ended up missing out on the road because when

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Speaker 1: we did our verification, she lied, which sucked because if

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Speaker 1: she had just told the truth, she probably still would

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Speaker 1: have got the job, because degrees are okay, but they're

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Speaker 1: not the end all be all, so fairly innocuous like

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Speaker 1: the reason that they're doing it. So would I be

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Speaker 1: super worried? And am I going to stay up late

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Speaker 1: tonight because my information is on one of these you know,

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Speaker 1: job verification websites like the work Number or true Work No.

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Speaker 1: I know the same way that whenever I get an

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Speaker 1: alert that the password I'm using has been leaked in

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Speaker 1: one of these a million jillion leaks out there, I'm

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Speaker 1: just like, let go and let God. At a certain point,

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Speaker 1: like I can't come up with any I don't got it.

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Speaker 1: I don't have enough brain cells to come up with

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Speaker 1: another password and keep tabs on it, like if you

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Speaker 1: want it, come and get it, Like what what are

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Speaker 1: you going to get at the end, at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day. So I have that, you know, sort

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Speaker 1: of attitude about it. You may be different, maybe a

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Speaker 1: bit more paranoid. So I do think it's something worth

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Speaker 1: talking to, especially in this example, and that real In

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Speaker 1: that example she gives saying that this this worker, potential

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Speaker 1: job candidate was declined because when they completed her job

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Speaker 1: verification through the work number that the CEO of the

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Speaker 1: company was like, oh, they've been unemployed for ten months.

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Speaker 1: That's a red flag. I'm not hiring that person now.

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Speaker 1: That's within the CEO's rights. Does it make him or

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Speaker 1: her an asshole? Yes, because that is some bullshit, especially

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Speaker 1: in this economy where the average person who the average

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Speaker 1: time that unemployed people are looking for work right now,

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Speaker 1: according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics is six months. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So you're not going to make me feel bad for

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Speaker 1: being out here for ten months, okay, because it is

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Speaker 1: not unheard of. Times are wild, so again, asshole. Yes,

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Speaker 1: my concern would be what if that's not true? And

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Speaker 1: I do feel like there is power in us getting,

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Speaker 1: you know, logging into one of these accounts and just

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Speaker 1: making sure that the information that they have there is accurate,

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Speaker 1: because if we're going to get judged for being unemployed

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Speaker 1: quote unquote for ten months, like, let's make sure it

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Speaker 1: was actually true and accurate. It also leads me to

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Speaker 1: question like, if companies like this particular leader is relying

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Speaker 1: so heavily on these third party data big data collectors,

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Speaker 1: they're missing the nuance that you can really explain yourself

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Speaker 1: if you had a phone screen with a recruiter, or

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Speaker 1: if you had a phone call with the hiring manager,

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Speaker 1: you could say, okay, sure on paper, I haven't been

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Speaker 1: a W two employee for the past ten months, but

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Speaker 1: I have been consulting, I've been freelancing, I've been over

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Speaker 1: here getting a certificate or you know, enrolling in some

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Speaker 1: kind of skills based program. I think it's completely short

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Speaker 1: sighted to just judge someone based on a career gap.

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Speaker 1: You know that one of these these big data firms

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Speaker 1: may be showing on their end because it won't be

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Speaker 1: telling you the full picture. So here's how these companies work.

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Speaker 1: So these sites, your employer will actually send payroll sometimes

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Speaker 1: HR data like your job title, the dates you've worked,

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Speaker 1: your job status, sometimes salary, not always to a third

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Speaker 1: party like the work number or a platform that may

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Speaker 1: use true work. And this isn't just employers, but also

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Speaker 1: like landlords, potential like credit lenders, or in this case,

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Speaker 1: another employer. If they need to verify you and your details,

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Speaker 1: they can log into these sites as a verifier and

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Speaker 1: they can certify that they have a permissible purpose basically

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Speaker 1: that they are looking you up for just cause under

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Speaker 1: a regulation called the Fair Credit Reporting Act, and that

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Speaker 1: they have your consent. So again, this consent comes from

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Speaker 1: checking that box on a loan agreement, checking that box

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Speaker 1: on a lease application. And some setups can email you

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Speaker 1: so that you can explicitly approve or deny that request.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of times it's happening really without our knowledge.

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Speaker 1: Hey BAFAM, we got to take a quick break. Pay

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Speaker 1: some bills. And we'll be right back. So here's what

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Speaker 1: you can be mindful of, ba Fan that again, you

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Speaker 1: make consent to this kind of data collection without realizing it.

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Speaker 1: When you sign a loan, a credit card, a lease application,

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Speaker 1: there's almost always language there that authorizes that creditor to

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Speaker 1: verify your employment and income information, which they can do

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Speaker 1: repeatedly for ongoing quote unquote account review. And that when

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Speaker 1: that data is collected, it's sitting in a big database.

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Speaker 1: So privacy advocates, of course, they worry about what can

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Speaker 1: happen when this information is breached in a leak or

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Speaker 1: it's misused. Once they live in a big centralized system. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: in this day and age, we know everything eventually gets leaked,

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Speaker 1: so there is some concern there. There's also the scope

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Speaker 1: of the info we can understand. So at minimum, most

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Speaker 1: verifications they can include your name, the employer you worked for,

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Speaker 1: job title, dates you work, their pay, which can be

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Speaker 1: you know, pretty sensitive, especially if you're bargaining for you

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Speaker 1: if you're negotiating your salary. I don't think it is.

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Speaker 1: It's a little chilling to know that maybe the employer

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Speaker 1: has access to data that could potentially tell them the

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Speaker 1: range that you've been earning before. I don't mean to

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Speaker 1: be alarmist at all. Again, not every company uses these sites,

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Speaker 1: but if it's out there, then you know that could

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Speaker 1: potentially make it difficult for you to negotiate. The key

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Speaker 1: is not anyone off the street can sign up to

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Speaker 1: be a verifier on these sites. So only credentialed verifiers

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Speaker 1: who have again that permissible use case are supposed to

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Speaker 1: be able to get in, and they themselves are audited,

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Speaker 1: So you know that can give you some comfort. The

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Speaker 1: question from Courtney is can you opt out or can

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Speaker 1: you stop yourself from being tracked? I remember years and

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Speaker 1: years ago doing multiple articles on and writing multiple stories

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Speaker 1: about big data and how our data is being tracked

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Speaker 1: and a lot of time being sold for marketing purposes.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is the reason why you talk about

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Speaker 1: wanting a new watch, you know, on the phone, and

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Speaker 1: the next thing you know, you're being served ads for it,

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Speaker 1: because that information is being packaged and sold to companies

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Speaker 1: you want to be able to market to you, right,

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Speaker 1: And it's really like so widespread that I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's possible for any of us to fully stop our

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Speaker 1: information from being bought and sold in this way. With

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Speaker 1: many employers, you can't fully stop them from using one

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Speaker 1: of these services, like the work number for basic employment verification,

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Speaker 1: it's actually just part of their HR operations. In some

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Speaker 1: cases you can ask for blocking or extra restrictions like

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Speaker 1: putting a block or security freeze flag on your file,

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Speaker 1: so automated income sharing is limited and extra steps are

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Speaker 1: needed before they're able to pull that info. But this

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Speaker 1: is really policy specific, and if everything is kosher, you

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Speaker 1: could actually be delaying your eventual hire and slow down

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Speaker 1: like legitimate verification. And in this job market, who wants

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Speaker 1: to get in their own way and it comes to

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Speaker 1: just ticking a final background check and getting that job right.

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Speaker 1: There is some practical advice for you. There'll be a family.

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Speaker 1: If you're really curious, you can sign up for your

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Speaker 1: own work number the work Number employee portal, so you

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Speaker 1: can sign up, create a log in, and you can

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Speaker 1: see what your record looks like. I might go in

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Speaker 1: there and see what mine looks like. It'll be interesting

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Speaker 1: since I haven't worked full like for as a W

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Speaker 1: two worker in about five years now, so I don't

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Speaker 1: know what they're going to have on there. I hope

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Speaker 1: they have just incredible badassory. She's a podcaster and consultant

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Speaker 1: and she's speaking and she's I got stuff. Okay. You

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Speaker 1: can also ask HR at the company that you're interviewing

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Speaker 1: with what their policy is for job verification. You can say,

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Speaker 1: you know, is there a particular third party service that

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Speaker 1: you use for employment verification? What fields are you looking for?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think you can approach it like if

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Speaker 1: you're really concerned about it, just approach it, not in

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Speaker 1: a way that they think you have something to hide,

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Speaker 1: but just in like a way of curiosity, like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I actually have heard that there's a job verification process

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Speaker 1: and I'm just curious you guys use any particular service

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Speaker 1: for that or are you doing that completing that internally?

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Speaker 1: I just want to be sure that all of my

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Speaker 1: information is up to date and super current. I'm concerned

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Speaker 1: that maybe there may be some gaps, and if that's

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Speaker 1: the case, then I think any reasonable rep from that

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Speaker 1: company would say, oh, well we use this or you know,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna do an internal review ourselves, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll make sure to run any potential gaps or make

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Speaker 1: sure any any confusion is cleared up before we move forward.

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Speaker 1: If you really want to be mindful about where your

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Speaker 1: data is ending up. I mean, you could read those

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Speaker 1: terms of use on everything that we sign up for,

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Speaker 1: and it's one of those situations where you know, if

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Speaker 1: you want to live in the woods and like be

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Speaker 1: off the grid, maybe that's cool for you. But just

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Speaker 1: the way things are set up these days, the data,

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Speaker 1: they don't need it. It's the it's pay to play,

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Speaker 1: and we pay with our info in a lot a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways. If you sign up for one of

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Speaker 1: these accounts and you do spot errors, you're well within

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Speaker 1: your right to get those errors corrected. So you should

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Speaker 1: be able to reach out to the company and request

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Speaker 1: that inaccurate information is fixed or taken off. So there

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Speaker 1: is some empowerment there. If you sign up for one

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Speaker 1: of these accounts and you see misinformation one hundred percent,

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Speaker 1: make sure that that is scrubbed. But the bottom line, BAFAM,

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Speaker 1: is that you probably cannot fully stop your employer, any employer,

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Speaker 1: from using these systems. You can, however, get to know

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Speaker 1: what's in your file and understand when and how you

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Speaker 1: are consenting to have your information collected in this ways,

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Speaker 1: and in some particular cases, maybe you're able to formally

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Speaker 1: approve those requests for information, but a lot of times

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Speaker 1: it's happening in the background and we may not be

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Speaker 1: fully aware unless you know, in situations like this, someone

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Speaker 1: lets someone know, Hey, I was screwed out of a

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Speaker 1: job because there was some misinformation or a gap on

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Speaker 1: my employment history and this company was trying to check it.

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Speaker 1: So I'm really really sorry for that person. At the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, though, I don't think you want

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Speaker 1: to work there anywhere. Girl, Like, if that CEO is

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Speaker 1: going to judge you for ten months of a career gap, like,

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Speaker 1: they can get to step and you're probably better off.

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Speaker 1: Let's just keep it one hundred, all right, Courtney, Thank

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Speaker 1: you so so much for your question, ba Fam. If

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Speaker 1: you want to submit a question to the show, you

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Speaker 1: know where to find me. It's Brown Ambition Podcast at

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Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Or you can send me a message

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Speaker 1: on ig slide into my DMS at Brown Ambition Podcast

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Speaker 1: if you want to write your question, amazing. If you

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Speaker 1: want to send me a voice note, even better. Love

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Speaker 1: hearing y'all's voices and playing that on the show. Until

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Speaker 1: next time, It's Mandy Money. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: listening to Brown Ambition by Bafam. And before I go,

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Speaker 1: BA Fam, I want to shout out the team that

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Speaker 1: helps make Brown Ambition possible. Huge thanks to my fam

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Speaker 1: at iHeartRadio, Katrina Norvel and Jenna Cagel, my worker bees

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes, booking Assistant Brittany Laier and virtual Assistant

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Speaker 1: Cameron McNair who keep me organized, and of course my

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Speaker 1: editor Courtney Dean. Thank y'all so much for supporting the show.

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Speaker 1: If you love Brown Ambition, share it with a friend,

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Speaker 1: tag us on social and don't forget to leave a

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Speaker 1: comment or review. Until next time. By BA Fam