1
00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:02,840
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

2
00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,480
Speaker 2: Shucking evidence emerging in the last days. Did the Long

3
00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:17,840
Speaker 2: Island serial killer actually keep his victims alive, alive for

4
00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,639
Speaker 2: days to play with them his words, not mine, in

5
00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:28,520
Speaker 2: order to play with them before he murdered them? I mean,

6
00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,360
Speaker 2: you see, Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for

7
00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:32,080
Speaker 2: being with us.

8
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:38,400
Speaker 3: Six women found dead, mutilated, and dismembered on Long Island Beach.

9
00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:43,280
Speaker 3: Investigators believe there is one thread connecting them all.

10
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:48,360
Speaker 2: Rex Hureman, that's the thread. Now we said six, but

11
00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,760
Speaker 2: I guarantee you there are going to be more victims uncovered.

12
00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,960
Speaker 2: Victims of the Long Island serial killer. A local architect,

13
00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,640
Speaker 2: Rex Hureman, in life days.

14
00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:01,400
Speaker 1: He has been.

15
00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:06,319
Speaker 2: Officially charged with two more women's murders, not just the

16
00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,720
Speaker 2: gilg for and I expect another to be named in

17
00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:15,120
Speaker 2: the near future, that victim being Valerie Mack. But you

18
00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:19,919
Speaker 2: couldn't make this up. Where am I getting this knowledge.

19
00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:25,480
Speaker 2: I'm getting it from a document, A document that coincides

20
00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,760
Speaker 2: with corroborating evidence, sightings of the victim's phone calls from

21
00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 2: the victims, train rides by the victims, victims that left

22
00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:41,240
Speaker 2: and never came back. All of that extrinsic evidence coincides

23
00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:46,320
Speaker 2: with a document, a very detailed document that was erased

24
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:47,400
Speaker 2: by the Long.

25
00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:48,160
Speaker 1: Island serial killer.

26
00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,280
Speaker 2: The alleged serial killer erased by him, But as any

27
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,520
Speaker 2: computer expert will tell you, you can never erase anything

28
00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:01,400
Speaker 2: on your computer. I also learned, after researching and investigating

29
00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:06,280
Speaker 2: this that rex Hureerman tried to not only erase.

30
00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:10,040
Speaker 1: It, but he also perfected it. Over years.

31
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,760
Speaker 2: He would toy with and tinker with this document as

32
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:20,760
Speaker 2: he perfected his mode of murder, but keeping a victim

33
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:26,400
Speaker 2: alive for days on and so he could play with him.

34
00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,359
Speaker 2: Where am I getting that word from his doc? His document?

35
00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,440
Speaker 2: He is so called planning document that was found on

36
00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:36,079
Speaker 2: his computer.

37
00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,440
Speaker 4: First of all, listen to this alleged serial killer, rex

38
00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,600
Speaker 4: Huerman may have kept his victims alive to inflict pain

39
00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,680
Speaker 4: and torture them for multiple days. Investigators using calendars for

40
00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,880
Speaker 4: the Hureman family to determine when rex Huerman has the

41
00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,440
Speaker 4: house all to himself while his wife and children are

42
00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,120
Speaker 4: not at home, and comparing those dates today, some of

43
00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:56,680
Speaker 4: his alleged victims went missing.

44
00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,800
Speaker 5: Well, okay, more rest, more playtime and soa.

45
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,720
Speaker 6: What he's talking about is, well, what the allegation, and

46
00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,400
Speaker 6: what we would allege is the more rested, you know,

47
00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,119
Speaker 6: the participants are, the more you can get done. And

48
00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,760
Speaker 6: he also talks about the or The document also talks

49
00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,920
Speaker 6: about crime scene and if you're sleepy and spending too

50
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,240
Speaker 6: much time in a crime scene or your lack of sleep,

51
00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,280
Speaker 6: your chances of making mistakes increase. So again there's a

52
00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,239
Speaker 6: lot of evincing of intent in that document.

53
00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:30,680
Speaker 1: Okay, I really don't know what to say after that.

54
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:31,840
Speaker 1: And I like this guy.

55
00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,440
Speaker 2: You're hearing the Suffolk County District Attorney right Tierney's speaking.

56
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:41,760
Speaker 2: But I just referred to the participants. You mean the

57
00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,560
Speaker 2: murder victims, the lady murder victims, And as we learn

58
00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:50,240
Speaker 2: from you Romin's document, the smaller and more petite the lady,

59
00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,960
Speaker 2: the more he liked it. He's a huge, hulking guy,

60
00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 2: got away close to three hundred pounds, towering. He was

61
00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:01,240
Speaker 2: described by some witnesses as looking like an ogre. A

62
00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:08,240
Speaker 2: participant and at least four days of physical torture, including

63
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,680
Speaker 2: suspending the women.

64
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:13,280
Speaker 1: In the air.

65
00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:19,719
Speaker 2: From the roof and walls of his torture chamber.

66
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:25,240
Speaker 1: The participant my rear end. Here's the guy. This is

67
00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:26,599
Speaker 1: how everybody else saw him.

68
00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,880
Speaker 2: Now this is how we see him today, joining me

69
00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,440
Speaker 2: in an all star panel to make sense of what

70
00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:37,160
Speaker 2: we are learning, keeping the victims alive for days to

71
00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:42,120
Speaker 2: quote play with them before I tell you more straight

72
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:47,640
Speaker 2: out to renounced psycho analysts. Doctor Bethany Marshall, author of

73
00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,480
Speaker 2: deal Breakers. You can find her at dr Bethany Marshall

74
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,679
Speaker 2: dot com. Doctor Bethany, I would not refer to these

75
00:04:55,000 --> 00:05:01,680
Speaker 2: ladies as quote participants that needed more arrest in order

76
00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,880
Speaker 2: to participate and their murder.

77
00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,560
Speaker 7: You know, Nancy, using a word like participant really minimizes

78
00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,280
Speaker 7: the suffering of the victims. And we know about these

79
00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:15,240
Speaker 7: psychopaths and Rex Hiraman in particular, that the way he

80
00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:20,800
Speaker 7: achieved sexual arousal is to inflict pain and cruelty. That

81
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,960
Speaker 7: is his mo and he likes to demean That's what

82
00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,479
Speaker 7: psychopaths do. That's why he called up the families and

83
00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,320
Speaker 7: he kind of taunted them because that was a way

84
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,159
Speaker 7: to achieve arousal as well. So there is no.

85
00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,479
Speaker 2: Way to wait, wait, wait, Bethany, before I get to

86
00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:42,160
Speaker 2: him calling some of the victims' family members and taunting

87
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,680
Speaker 2: them by saying I raped her, I raped her I

88
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 2: killed her.

89
00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,320
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a whole other can of worms.

90
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,799
Speaker 2: Can we get back to the four days of torture

91
00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,880
Speaker 2: that coincide with the times his wife and children would

92
00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,640
Speaker 2: be away for extended periods of time. We needed a

93
00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,360
Speaker 2: full on nearly a week to torture these ladies, suspending

94
00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:05,440
Speaker 2: them from the roof.

95
00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,240
Speaker 1: You know what, Let's make it real. Let's make it real. Listen.

96
00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,400
Speaker 6: First off, with regard to Jessica Taylor, you know that

97
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,840
Speaker 6: her body was recovered in July twenty sixth and two

98
00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,919
Speaker 6: thousand and three off of just west of Halsey Mountain

99
00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,120
Speaker 6: Road in Manorville.

100
00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,320
Speaker 5: She was found on her back.

101
00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,880
Speaker 6: She was decapitated, and her hands and arms were severed

102
00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:34,360
Speaker 6: just below the elbows. Notably a tattoo that she had

103
00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,560
Speaker 6: had been obliterated with a sharp object.

104
00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:38,760
Speaker 1: Let's analyze what we just heard.

105
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,360
Speaker 2: I'm going to bring in everybody, but first I want

106
00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,480
Speaker 2: to go to a special guest joining me, Niki Carbone,

107
00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,240
Speaker 2: who actually went on a date with Rix hereman we

108
00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:51,040
Speaker 2: have met before.

109
00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,120
Speaker 1: Nikki, thank you for joining me. I appreciate it well.

110
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,039
Speaker 2: You were hearing, for instance, what happened to Jessica Taylor

111
00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,880
Speaker 2: and on her back decapitated her arms and hands over

112
00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:14,280
Speaker 2: her head and tattoo had been cut off of her skin.

113
00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,800
Speaker 2: You know you were that close, miss lady, to the

114
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:21,840
Speaker 2: same thing happening to you.

115
00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you tell us what happened on your date?

116
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,080
Speaker 8: Looking back now, it's still kind of like crazy to

117
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:29,800
Speaker 8: me because I feel like.

118
00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:30,760
Speaker 9: I got very lucky.

119
00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,400
Speaker 8: But so I met him at the steam Room in

120
00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,840
Speaker 8: Port jeff In like twenty fifteen. He initially I knew

121
00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,000
Speaker 8: he was from s Piqua and he was an architect,

122
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,440
Speaker 8: and he wanted me to go directly to his house.

123
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,200
Speaker 8: He didn't want to meet in public, but I did

124
00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,960
Speaker 8: not want to do that. I ended up actually before

125
00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,120
Speaker 8: going showing somebody his picture and letting her know where

126
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,400
Speaker 8: I was going to meet him in case anything happened,

127
00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,600
Speaker 8: because I always did it just to be safe. And

128
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,680
Speaker 8: when I got there, I first impression he is a

129
00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,840
Speaker 8: freaking monster. He is huge, like six ' five I think,

130
00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:13,760
Speaker 8: and like very kind of overbearing, like his grip, everything

131
00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:15,560
Speaker 8: kind of seemed very overbearing.

132
00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,200
Speaker 9: We sat down, we started having dinner.

133
00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,240
Speaker 8: I don't know how, Like I'm pretty sure he brought

134
00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:24,920
Speaker 8: it up, but I don't know how he like casually

135
00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,920
Speaker 8: brought up serial killers, and we talked about a couple

136
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,400
Speaker 8: of them, but like the one that stood out the

137
00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 8: most and bothers me now hearing what happened to the

138
00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,680
Speaker 8: women was he talked about the serial killer that used

139
00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,640
Speaker 8: to bring women to Alaska on a date and then

140
00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:46,360
Speaker 8: hunt them. And he also talked about Jeffrey Dahmer. So

141
00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,560
Speaker 8: like the few serial killers he brought up, very creepy.

142
00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:51,400
Speaker 8: And then he asked, like, have you heard a Long

143
00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,520
Speaker 8: Island serial killer, Gilgo Beach. I said, yeah, everyone who

144
00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,080
Speaker 8: lives here knows about it. We started talking about the

145
00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,560
Speaker 8: Gilg Beach murders. But the difference was when we talked

146
00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,920
Speaker 8: about other serial killers, it was like very much third person,

147
00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,480
Speaker 8: just like stuff you read out a book, factual stuff.

148
00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,720
Speaker 8: When he talked about Gilgo, it was like completely different,

149
00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:17,640
Speaker 8: Like his body language change, the way he was talking

150
00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:19,840
Speaker 8: about it wasn't somebody. It was almost like he was

151
00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,280
Speaker 8: reliving it and like I hate to say it, but

152
00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:28,640
Speaker 8: almost I don't know how you say it, but sexualizing it.

153
00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,199
Speaker 8: Like it seemed like he got off on talking about it,

154
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,760
Speaker 8: and like the impression I got from him was that

155
00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,920
Speaker 8: like he was somebody who like wants the media circus

156
00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,520
Speaker 8: and the attention and to be like a known serial

157
00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,280
Speaker 8: killer like he. I don't see any other reason why

158
00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,120
Speaker 8: you would talk to a potential victim about the murders beforehand.

159
00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:51,920
Speaker 9: So it was very the whole thing he brought up.

160
00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,800
Speaker 8: I remember Shannon specifically, and that's why it bothers me

161
00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,560
Speaker 8: so much. She's not connected because you said, do you

162
00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:02,160
Speaker 8: think Shannon Gilbert is tied to the Gilgo Beach? And

163
00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,440
Speaker 8: I said, I don't know, and he said, I think

164
00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,959
Speaker 8: she is, absolutely, and then he talked about that a

165
00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:07,439
Speaker 8: little bit.

166
00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,880
Speaker 9: But she's it still says stay out tied to him.

167
00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,160
Speaker 9: And that's one of the biggest things about the case

168
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:15,880
Speaker 9: that bothers me.

169
00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,600
Speaker 1: NICKI carbine with us. You know what, NICKI, after we

170
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:20,680
Speaker 1: finish our.

171
00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,400
Speaker 2: Program, I'm going to hook you up with doctor Bethany Marshall.

172
00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,080
Speaker 2: She's at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com and I'm going

173
00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:32,120
Speaker 2: to hook you to up via cell phone. NICKI, when

174
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,800
Speaker 2: you were hearing that these ladies were kept alive and

175
00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:41,240
Speaker 2: like suspended from the ceiling and tied up and tortured.

176
00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:42,760
Speaker 9: I wasn't surprised at all.

177
00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,040
Speaker 1: Why do you say that.

178
00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,839
Speaker 8: That I wasn't surprised the way he talked about everything's

179
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,400
Speaker 8: he came off to me as somebody that would enjoy that.

180
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,920
Speaker 8: And then hearing the autopsy report for like Shannon and

181
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,920
Speaker 8: other people, it just it made a lot of sense,

182
00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:07,320
Speaker 8: especially taunting the families, and it's scary. I think the

183
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,720
Speaker 8: only reason I remember, I was too scared to walk

184
00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:11,880
Speaker 8: to my car alone because I didn't know if you

185
00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,560
Speaker 8: would like come to my car. And he was a

186
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,800
Speaker 8: massive guy. So I ended up having somebody meet me

187
00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,000
Speaker 8: literally like at the door of the steam room. And

188
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,320
Speaker 8: I feel like that's the only reason I got as

189
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:24,280
Speaker 8: lucky as I did.

190
00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,520
Speaker 2: Now, Nikki, the steamer room was the restaurant, correct, Yeah,

191
00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,000
Speaker 2: And I like to point out to everyone that I've

192
00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,200
Speaker 2: spoken to Niki well over the course of the past year,

193
00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,599
Speaker 2: and her story has remained the same. In fact, the

194
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,480
Speaker 2: minute details have not changed. Let me understand this, Nikki,

195
00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,400
Speaker 2: you got such an overwhelming feeling you were afraid to

196
00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,319
Speaker 2: walk to your car after dinner with Rex Hereman.

197
00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:50,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, I didn't know if you would follow me, And

198
00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,240
Speaker 8: like everyone knows, he's massive, so and at the time

199
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,559
Speaker 8: I was like probably one hundred and twenty five pounds,

200
00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,040
Speaker 8: So yeah, I didn't even I'll see. He's the only

201
00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,320
Speaker 8: time I ever in my entire life went on a

202
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,600
Speaker 8: date where I remembered reading about a magazine and how

203
00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:09,840
Speaker 8: he could go to the bar and order a drink

204
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,880
Speaker 8: and they'll escort you to an uber or lift or

205
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,640
Speaker 8: escort you out. And I remember thinking about that on

206
00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:21,320
Speaker 8: the date, and I never I never had that thought

207
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,640
Speaker 8: come in my mind. Like he was terrifying because the

208
00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,640
Speaker 8: way he spoke about it wasn't somebody.

209
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,679
Speaker 9: Who just was interested in serial killers.

210
00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:35,440
Speaker 2: NICKI, I remember you telling me something about he kept

211
00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,560
Speaker 2: trying to get you to go with him, and you

212
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,040
Speaker 2: were putting him off, and he kept explaining how he

213
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,600
Speaker 2: could get you out there, but he wouldn't talk about

214
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:44,199
Speaker 2: how you could get back home.

215
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,400
Speaker 9: Yeah, he didn't want me to take that was the

216
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:46,920
Speaker 9: biggest thing.

217
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,760
Speaker 8: So at towards the end of the date, he asked

218
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,480
Speaker 8: if I was going to go back to his place

219
00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,480
Speaker 8: with him, and he had shown me a white envelope

220
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,360
Speaker 8: but that was sketchy to begin with.

221
00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,319
Speaker 9: But he asked me to go back to his face.

222
00:12:58,360 --> 00:12:59,520
Speaker 9: But his biggest thing was.

223
00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,760
Speaker 8: He didn't want me to take my car or anything

224
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,840
Speaker 8: anyone in my phone off And I was like, how

225
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:05,680
Speaker 8: am I going to get back?

226
00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:07,360
Speaker 9: And he's like, oh, we'll figure that out later, Like

227
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:08,960
Speaker 9: that wasn't like something he talked about.

228
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,200
Speaker 8: And when I was like, oh no, like I'm not

229
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,760
Speaker 8: leaving my car. I don't feel comfortable driving out there,

230
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,400
Speaker 8: Like you could tell, he was like visibly annoyed and

231
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,720
Speaker 8: like aggravated that he made the effort to come meet

232
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,079
Speaker 8: me out there and I wasn't going back with it.

233
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:28,760
Speaker 2: Now, where was the same room restaurant located?

234
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,840
Speaker 1: Was it anywhere near Penn Station?

235
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,680
Speaker 9: No? No, I live in Suffolk.

236
00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,280
Speaker 8: So he met me in Port jeff which is I

237
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:42,120
Speaker 8: want to say, like thirty minutes for Massapico maybe, But

238
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,800
Speaker 8: I had never gone to Massapico or been in the area,

239
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,720
Speaker 8: so I didn't feel comfortable going straight to his house

240
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:49,400
Speaker 8: to begin with. And then after the fact that I

241
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,280
Speaker 8: was like, I don't want to drive at night. I

242
00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,840
Speaker 8: don't know the area. And that's when he was like, oh, no,

243
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,480
Speaker 8: we'd go in my car. Why would we take two cars,

244
00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,760
Speaker 8: like insisting that it be one car.

245
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,280
Speaker 2: What was his response when you would not go In

246
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,640
Speaker 2: the end, when he realized you were leaving and you

247
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:05,520
Speaker 2: were not going to go with him, he.

248
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,240
Speaker 9: What else can you do. He's in a public place.

249
00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,760
Speaker 8: He's not going to make a scene. And so all

250
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,880
Speaker 8: he did was he gave me like a really firm hug,

251
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,400
Speaker 8: like an awkwardly firm, like very aggressive kind of hug.

252
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:20,600
Speaker 9: And you could see on his face, you could see

253
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:20,840
Speaker 9: in his.

254
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,680
Speaker 8: Body language he was visibly like aggravated, like he looked

255
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,120
Speaker 8: angry that I wasn't going, And I didn't walk out

256
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,880
Speaker 8: the door until I knew my friend was waiting outside.

257
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,960
Speaker 3: Body after body after body is found on the beachy

258
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,440
Speaker 3: shores of Long Island, New York, but authorities think there

259
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:45,480
Speaker 3: could be more.

260
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:48,720
Speaker 1: There are absolutely more.

261
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,440
Speaker 2: Straight out to Susan Hendricks, jo joining US investigative reporter

262
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,760
Speaker 2: and author of a new book, Down the Hill, My

263
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,520
Speaker 2: descend into the double murder in Delphi.

264
00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,200
Speaker 1: Susan Hendricks, thank you for being with us.

265
00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:07,680
Speaker 2: This document has emerged clearly indicates that the defendant, Rex Huerman,

266
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,840
Speaker 2: the alleged Long Island serial killer, would keep his victims

267
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:17,120
Speaker 2: alive for days on end in his ords, playing with

268
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:22,040
Speaker 2: them and my words, torturing them until he finally killed

269
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,160
Speaker 2: them just in time for his wife and children to

270
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:26,320
Speaker 2: fly back into town.

271
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,520
Speaker 10: Yeah, Nancy, it's good to be on and seeing that

272
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,600
Speaker 10: list is so disturbing and it's great to hear from Niki.

273
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,160
Speaker 10: I also watched a prior interview you did with her

274
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,920
Speaker 10: about that gut instinct to think, wait a minute, his

275
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,760
Speaker 10: posture is different when he's speaking about the murder almost

276
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,680
Speaker 10: in first person, and the police commissioner, I believe, said

277
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,200
Speaker 10: it best saying Rex Huerman is a demon that walks

278
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,720
Speaker 10: among us, a predator that ruins families and some of

279
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,040
Speaker 10: the most disturbing and there's a lot to choose from.

280
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,720
Speaker 10: As you know Nancy, on that list, one is hit harder,

281
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,880
Speaker 10: use heavy rope for neck, light rope, broke, under stress.

282
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,360
Speaker 10: So think about the family members going back thinking one

283
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,360
Speaker 10: of the victim's sisters said, I want to know what

284
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,640
Speaker 10: were her final moments, like was she in pain? And

285
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,200
Speaker 10: then seeing this list come out that the light rope brope,

286
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,160
Speaker 10: that they need heavier rope. As sick as you may

287
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,120
Speaker 10: have thought this case to be, it appears it's even

288
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,160
Speaker 10: more disturbing now looking at that list.

289
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:30,080
Speaker 2: In the last days, two new victims have been officially named,

290
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:36,600
Speaker 2: names we knew before, but now it's official. There is

291
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:42,160
Speaker 2: enough evidence, including DNA, mitochondrial evidence to connect Huerman to

292
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,400
Speaker 2: these victims straight out to doctor Bethany Marshall. You can

293
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,080
Speaker 2: find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany

294
00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:57,040
Speaker 2: listening to the injuries on Santra Caristilla, specifically the I

295
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:02,880
Speaker 2: believe post mortem after death injuries to her face, torso, breasts.

296
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,000
Speaker 1: And vaginal area.

297
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,920
Speaker 2: It fits directly, which I'm going to get into later,

298
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:16,520
Speaker 2: snuff films and porn films that were discovered on this

299
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:21,160
Speaker 2: document belonging to human that he perfected and then tried

300
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,800
Speaker 2: to erase. I want to ask you, what does this

301
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,639
Speaker 2: type of mutilation on a lady's breasts and vagina and

302
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:35,800
Speaker 2: her face, What does that mean psychologically?

303
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:41,080
Speaker 7: This is sexual sadism. Sexual Sadism is a disorder where

304
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:47,440
Speaker 7: the perpetrator cannot achieve sexual arousal or orgasm without inflicting

305
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:48,080
Speaker 7: pain and.

306
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:49,960
Speaker 1: Cruelty on another person.

307
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:54,280
Speaker 7: And typically they don't just like mob or tease. It's

308
00:17:54,359 --> 00:18:00,000
Speaker 7: really a vaginal mutilation, breast mutilation, mutilating the person's face.

309
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,920
Speaker 7: I mean, he's a little tricky because he also didn't

310
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,600
Speaker 7: want her to be ideed, right, so he was trying

311
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:09,520
Speaker 7: to rip off her tattoos with a knife, But primarily

312
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:14,120
Speaker 7: he was trying to keep himself in a prolonged phase

313
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:19,320
Speaker 7: of sexual arousal for as many days as possible, and

314
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,000
Speaker 7: as long as that victim was alive, he could stay aroused.

315
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:24,520
Speaker 7: Now why sadism.

316
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:33,159
Speaker 2: So no matter how beaten, battered, bruised, cut up the

317
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:38,800
Speaker 2: victim was, he kept her alive to continue his word,

318
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:44,280
Speaker 2: not mine, playing with her and seeing a lady, Yes,

319
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:52,000
Speaker 2: beaten and cut up that way sexually aroused rex herement.

320
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,159
Speaker 7: Yes, because his brain is wired differently than ours. He

321
00:18:55,200 --> 00:19:02,320
Speaker 7: cannot achieve sexual satisfaction, excitement, pleasure without inflicting cruelty. And

322
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,720
Speaker 7: there's some neurobiology to this and that these perpetrators they can't.

323
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,840
Speaker 7: They experience under arousal in every area of their life.

324
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,679
Speaker 7: Nothing excites them other than inflicting cruelty. And I know

325
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 7: about like sex addicts in my practice, or if we

326
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:21,479
Speaker 7: think of sexual addiction, people with sexual addiction want to

327
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:26,960
Speaker 7: stay aroused continually, So they'll often watch pornography, but they'll

328
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,120
Speaker 7: avoid ejaculation because they want to stay in that aroused state.

329
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,280
Speaker 7: Now you take that to sadism, sexual sadom sism, the

330
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 7: same thing is actually happening. But while mutilating while dangling

331
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,400
Speaker 7: the woman from the ceiling while looking at the pain

332
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,640
Speaker 7: in her eyes. This is why sexual sadus often the

333
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,960
Speaker 7: mode of homicide is strangling while looking in the woman's

334
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 7: eyes because they want to see the fear. It's not

335
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 7: exciting for him to kill her upfront, It's only exciting

336
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 7: for him to toy with her. And the use of

337
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 7: the word play it's very it's really minimizing the heinous

338
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,159
Speaker 7: nature of the crime. And I'm so sorry for all

339
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 7: these families who have to hear these details. It's not

340
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,200
Speaker 7: only torture to the victim that was inflicted, but it's

341
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 7: continual torture inflicted on the families and on society.

342
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 2: In the last days, two more lady victims have been

343
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:26,960
Speaker 2: added to the list of the Gilgo Beach victims of

344
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 2: the Long Island serial killer.

345
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 1: Not only that, but the stunning.

346
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 2: Realization that the Long Island serial killer kept his victims

347
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:43,119
Speaker 2: alive for days on and torturing them a variety of modes,

348
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,960
Speaker 2: including hanging them from the walls or ceiling in his

349
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:49,360
Speaker 2: basement dungeon.

350
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 1: These attacks and these prolonged.

351
00:20:54,640 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 2: Days of torture coincided with times his wife and children

352
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 2: would leave to go out of the country, typically joining

353
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 2: me in all Star panel that Brace yourself. Listen to this.

354
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 6: Yerman had a significant collection of violent bondage and torture

355
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,880
Speaker 6: pornography which was dating back to nineteen ninety four, and

356
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 6: that material was very similar to the condition that the

357
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 6: two latest victims.

358
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 5: Were left in.

359
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 6: In addition to that, is alleged that the pornographic images

360
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:35,159
Speaker 6: that were access by Yeerman are consistent with the crime

361
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 6: scenes of both Sandra Cassia and Jessica Taylor.

362
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 2: You understand what he's saying, Bill Daily, Bill Daily joining me,

363
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 2: former FBI investigator and expert in forensic photography security expert, Bill,

364
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,199
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us, and he is joining

365
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,439
Speaker 2: us from this jurisdiction of Long Island.

366
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 1: Did you hear.

367
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 2: That they can take the porn torture films that Hierman

368
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 2: was into, the snuff films where somebody's actually killed or

369
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 2: replicates killing them, and they can overlay what was done

370
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 2: and that porn, that torture porn onto these victims and

371
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:25,199
Speaker 2: it matches, which is another extrensive piece of evidence proving

372
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 2: guilt on top of the DNA.

373
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 11: Yeah, exactly, as we hear all this evidence mounting against

374
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 11: the accused suspects here, it is a bit overwhelming, and

375
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 11: I'd probably say from an evidentiary perspective, at the gathering

376
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 11: of this evidence from a variety of scenes, crime scenes, conditions,

377
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 11: some more recent like the last two victims who have

378
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 11: found more recent to their deaths and were the ones

379
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 11: prior which only skeletal remains, is a daunting task and

380
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 11: I give tremendous credit to the both the forensics experts

381
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 11: and the other people involved in this case. Also, something

382
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 11: else to keep in mind, Nancy, is that we're talking

383
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 11: about Gilgo Beach and being familiar with the area, is

384
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,439
Speaker 11: that those bodies that were first discovered and why they

385
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 11: kind of led to this suspect along that beach front,

386
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 11: which is part of where Jones Beaches and Captree Beach,

387
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 11: et cetera. It's a Barry Island, a very remote area,

388
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 11: particularly in off hours and certainly different times of the season.

389
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 11: The other two victims we just mentioned, more recent victims,

390
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 11: were actually found a distance away. They were found one

391
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 11: out in Southampton, one in I believe Holebroke or perhaps Manorville.

392
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 11: Those those areas are some you know, thirty or forty

393
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 11: miles away, So it's quite it's quite intriguing the fact

394
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 11: that he kind of changed his modality. He changed from

395
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 11: going to that beach location for whatever reason, perhaps thinking

396
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 11: it was too hot, and then decided to kind of

397
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 11: drop the remains in other remote kind of park like areas.

398
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 11: But unfortunately they weren't. Fortunately for the investigators, they were

399
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,199
Speaker 11: not that re both that they were found fairly recent

400
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 11: after their deaths at the last two victims, and that helped,

401
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 11: I think bring together some of this forensic information, which

402
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 11: is very very compelling.

403
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 2: Bill Daily, When you stay that Gilgo Beach was too hot,

404
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: I'm sure you don't mean the weather, do you.

405
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:19,640
Speaker 1: No, I don't mean that.

406
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,959
Speaker 11: I mean it can be it's in the summer, But

407
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 11: that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the

408
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 11: fact that he may have felt as though he was

409
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 11: using it too often. He needed to the suspect needed

410
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 11: to kind of change his modality and then look for

411
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 11: other places. And that's why there could be other remains.

412
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 11: There may be other victims out there who might be

413
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 11: somewhat connected. We don't know yet, and I believe that

414
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 11: they may be over a period of time found.

415
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 2: Oh, there are going to be more victims with me,

416
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 2: renowned forensics expert, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of

417
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon's Star I Mean You

418
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: hit series podcast Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott Morgan,

419
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 2: I've been screaming into the wind for years that the

420
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 2: butcher of Manerville and the Long Island serial killer are

421
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 2: in fact one of the same, and I believe that

422
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 2: this one hair proves it because, as Bill Day correctly stated,

423
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 2: some of these bodies were found elsewhere. And regarding the

424
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 2: change of modality as he referred to it, I mean

425
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 2: many people say, oh, that couldn't be him because it's

426
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 2: a different modus operandi method of operation BS. Just look

427
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 2: at for instance, Ted Bundy. He started off pretending being

428
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 2: still a law student, flagging women down in his VW.

429
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 2: Then he pretend that he had a cast on his arm.

430
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 2: Then he would lure them and kill them. Then he

431
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 2: finally in the end was reduced to clubbing people with

432
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 2: a log inside a structure. His modality, his MO changed,

433
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 2: so that is not at all unusual. That's just very

434
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 2: uneducated to say it can't be him because the MO

435
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 2: changed but Joscott, I need your forensic expertise.

436
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: I listen to this.

437
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 12: In rex Huerman's digital devices, investigators uncovered disturbing images of

438
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 12: abuse and torture pornography. They also find Human's word document,

439
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 12: where he creates lists of supplies needed for torture dump

440
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 12: sites and targets. He also has notes on how to

441
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 12: prepare for an abduction. The document details the identical methodology

442
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 12: used on his alleged victims. Da Ray Tierney points out

443
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 12: the Gilgo four victims were all skeletonized when found, but

444
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 12: the last two victims were not. Tierney says the remains

445
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 12: of Jessica Taylor and Sandra Castilla showed evidence of torture.

446
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 12: Castilla's body showed evidence of mutilation, and Taylor was dismembered.

447
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 2: He's going to let that sink in for a moment,

448
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:55,479
Speaker 2: Joe Scott. So now we can do an overlay. We

449
00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 2: can compare the snuff film Murder. You I guess are

450
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 2: raping a lady, then you kill her or bottom nd

451
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 2: you kill her, you kill the victim, regardless of what.

452
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,479
Speaker 1: Leads up to the death in the movie.

453
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 2: There were other torture porn movies videos that Human watched

454
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 2: and the mo what was done to those victims is

455
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 2: the same exact thing that was done to these victims

456
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 2: the real life of victims. How do you determine that

457
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 2: when a body has decomposed.

458
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 13: Very difficult. One of the things that you're looking for,

459
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 13: And you know, you can go ahead.

460
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 12: And.

461
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 13: You can go ahead and probably exclude any of the

462
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 13: remains that are skeletonized unless there were broken bones, and

463
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 13: that might give you an indication there if there was

464
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 13: any healing going on. But in the short term, when

465
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 13: we talk about you know, they're saying specifically that there's

466
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 13: evidence of torture. That's different than post mortal mutilation, Nancy.

467
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 13: So if they have evidence of torture, and I'm talking

468
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,959
Speaker 13: about evidence on the bodies, all right, that means that

469
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 13: there has been a trauma response to any of the injuries.

470
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 13: And what that means that we get a bruise, we

471
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 13: get a cut, we get some kind of laceration to

472
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 13: our body, almost instantaneously, there will be a response at

473
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 13: a cellular level in our body, and we can pick

474
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 13: up on that at autopsy, Nancy, just by taking those samples,

475
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 13: even to a certain degree with decomposed bodies, that's depended

476
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 13: upon how far down the road they are at this point,

477
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 13: there is hope, I think. And the ones that are

478
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 13: more recent, where when I say recent, I mean recent

479
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 13: in the sense that they were fresher perhaps than the

480
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 13: than the bodies that have been out for a protracted

481
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 13: period of time, and you're going to see evidences of things.

482
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 13: I find it very interesting. You know, there's a couple

483
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 13: of references that are made in here about trying to

484
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 13: disguise this idea of restraint. You know, we have this

485
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 13: hard point that they talked about in the house. In

486
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 13: the house where allegedly sheet these individual are being suspended, Well,

487
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 13: if they're being suspended, they're probably being suspended by their

488
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 13: wrist hanging from the ceiling. You're gonna get braided areas

489
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 13: around the wrist. You can get subsequent broken small broken

490
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 13: bones or fractures in those areas. And if he is

491
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 13: striking them, say for instance, with a club or something

492
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 13: like this, or even punching them, there might be evidence

493
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 13: that they have broken bones underlying that tissue, and there's

494
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 13: even a trauma response in the bones at that point

495
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 13: in time. It's just how soon did they get to

496
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 13: these bodies that they'll have evidence of this nancy.

497
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 3: The quiet village of Manerville in Long Island is rocked

498
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 3: by a series of shocking discoveries up and down their shoreline.

499
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 3: Six bodies dumped. Police believe one man is responsible, and

500
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 3: there could be more victims.

501
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: It's not just that.

502
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: Police believe it, DNA proves it. Of course, everyone is

503
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: presumed innocent until proven guilty in our jurisprudence. But it's

504
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 2: going to be hard, very difficult to fight with DNA,

505
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 2: not just on one victim, but on several of them.

506
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 2: But query, what does this string of murder victims, along

507
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 2: with days on end where they are kept in captivity

508
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 2: in order to torture them, what does that have to

509
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: do with a book?

510
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 6: Listen, and so we know there are specific page references

511
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 6: to to that that that book, uh and and stuff

512
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 6: such as a sexual substitution, uh, torture and also Stockholm

513
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 6: syndrome and uh. You know our argument, it's our allegation

514
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 6: that the defendant was referencing that mind Hunt Hunter book

515
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 6: not to gain insight into his own behavior, to modify

516
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 6: or change it, but rather to use it as a

517
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 6: means of improving his methodology and avoid capture by the authorities.

518
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 2: To investigative reporter and journalists and Hendrix, how does the

519
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: mind Hunter the book play into this mass murder, this

520
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: serial killer.

521
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 10: It is very sick and apparently he used references in

522
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 10: that book meaning the painter and the artist, the painter

523
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 10: being the victim. And it's clear how much he was

524
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 10: obsessed with his own doing what he did following the

525
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 10: brutal murders and even calling as you mentioned Nancy, the victims'

526
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 10: family members. I mean, Melissa's sister, Amanda is fifteen years

527
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 10: old at the time. If you're not clear about this

528
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 10: detail calling her, she sees her sister's phone, thinks it's

529
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 10: her sister, says Melissa, No, it's him, allegedly saying what

530
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 10: he did to her sister. Nothing seemed like it was enough,

531
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 10: not the torture referencing the book, those long lists, and

532
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 10: there were some parallels in my opinion, to Delphi in

533
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 10: terms of could a tip that was early on have

534
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 10: led to his arrest. We'll never know, but one of

535
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 10: the victim's roommates, Dave Amber Lynn. Costillo's roommate, Dave called

536
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 10: it in and said, listen, this guy creeped me out.

537
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,239
Speaker 10: This is the make and model of his car, and

538
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 10: I recently saw him doing an interview saying, look, this

539
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 10: was more than a decade later, that maybe they could

540
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 10: have caught him when they did.

541
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,719
Speaker 2: Oh yes, you're Sarah Ryde, saysan Hendrix, a green Chevy

542
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: Avalanche which is no longer in manufacture, and it was

543
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 2: parked outside of his house. Back to the book The

544
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 2: Mind Hunter, did Rex Hierman the alleged Long Island serial

545
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 2: killer copycat what's in Douglas's book?

546
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 6: Listen, you want to know who the painter is, look

547
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 6: at the painting.

548
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 5: And that is something that Douglas used to tell.

549
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 6: His investigators, and that pertains specifically to if you want

550
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 6: to know who committed the crime, look at the crime

551
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 6: scene and the condition of the victim.

552
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 5: And again, if you do that in this case, we

553
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 5: would allege that.

554
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 6: The crime scene and the victims match very much with

555
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 6: a lot of the first off, the document that we found,

556
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 6: and also a lot of the defendant's Internet activities and

557
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 6: the bondage and torture type of pornography that he was

558
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 6: interested and obsessively searching.

559
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, I need you to shrink that so

560
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 2: Huerman is getting ideas from The Mind Hunter, the book.

561
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 7: Nancy, his whole life is organized around this perversion. And

562
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 7: let's remember there are five perversions exhibitionism, voyeurism, fraudiism which

563
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 7: is rubbing up against an unsuspecting person in public, sadism,

564
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 7: and pedophilia, and all of these perversions have something in

565
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 7: common that is that they are associated with compulsion. Compulsion

566
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 7: meaning the person is constantly thinking about the perversion constantly.

567
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 7: This is a little bit like maybe an alcoholic learning

568
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,720
Speaker 7: how to make specialty cocktails, or maybe a pedophile becoming

569
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,240
Speaker 7: a priest or learning how to be a school teacher,

570
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 7: where everything in that person's life is just organized around

571
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 7: this compulsion that they have. Nancy, certain people we don't

572
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 7: even put in psychology groups together because they pick up tips.

573
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 7: You will put people who have eating disorders in a

574
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 7: self help group together because they teach each other how

575
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 7: to diet. So in this case, you know, having someone

576
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 7: like rex Hureman have this kind of material available to him.

577
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 9: Is extremely dangerous.

578
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 7: And the reason these serial killers they pop up, they kill,

579
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 7: they go underground for a while, they pop up is

580
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 7: that they're so busy studying and that they're so busy

581
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 7: with their pornography that actually that kind of substitute for

582
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 7: the crime itself. In other words, that's sexually satisfying too.

583
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 6: Now, as part of our processing of the electronic devices,

584
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 6: the task force discovered a Microsoft word document entitled HK

585
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 6: two thousand and two through two thousand and four that

586
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 6: was discovered on a laptop in unallocated space, meaning there

587
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 6: was an attempt to erase that doment a locally created draft,

588
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 6: which means the document itself was created on the laptop.

589
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 6: It wasn't downloaded from the Internet. The document was modified.

590
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 6: It was originally created in two thousand and was overwritten

591
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 6: a number of times and modified between two thousand and

592
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 6: one and two thousand and two.

593
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 2: Translation Rex Huerman, the alleged Long Island serial killer, created

594
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: a how to, a detailed document regarding the prep the

595
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 2: hunting of his victims, what he did to them, and

596
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 2: how to get rid of them, their bodies and the evidence.

597
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: He created that, and he tried to erase it.

598
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 2: Not only did he try to erase it it was

599
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: discovered by cyber experts, but he over wrote it, modifying

600
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: it many many times, perfecting it just got Morgan is,

601
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 2: a forensics expert and death investigator. What does this tell you, Hey,

602
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 2: just got Morgan. I've got sadly, over twenty one thousand

603
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 2: emails on my iPhone. I haven't erased them because one

604
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 2: of these days I want to read them.

605
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: I don't care who sees them.

606
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 2: I don't care if my children or my husband go

607
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 2: around with my clphone, don't care. But he tried to

608
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 2: erase this document evidence of guilt in my mind. But

609
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 2: number two, can you just see him when he was

610
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 2: not in the middle of torturing a lady and killing

611
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 2: her or suspending her from the ceiling or mutilating her

612
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 2: on his off time? How many times do you think

613
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 2: you would go in and perfect that document? How can

614
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 2: I do this better, more easily? How can I get

615
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 2: away with this? How can I better hunt my victims?

616
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: And the joy and the excitement, the sex, excitement he

617
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 2: would derive from perfecting the kill document?

618
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 13: You know, it makes me think about you know some

619
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 13: of the master artists over the years, where they do

620
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,879
Speaker 13: over paints, they see something that they just can't quite

621
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 13: get right. It's stuck in their brain and suddenly, you know,

622
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 13: some art historian will uncover something beneath that as horrible

623
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 13: as this is he's learning as he goes along. And

624
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 13: you know, every time I see this guy and he's

625
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 13: not convicted, I know that, but I'm thinking, every time

626
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 13: he hears the stuff in court and continues that drumbeat

627
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 13: just continues. Is he reliving this in his mind all

628
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 13: the time, because you know they talk about this, that

629
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 13: they go back and fantasize about these sorts of things.

630
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 13: How could I do it better? How could I remove

631
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 13: you know, any evidence that I was involved in the situation.

632
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 13: And it's not about getting caught with him. It's about

633
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 13: trying trying to outsmart everybody.

634
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 2: You know, Nicki Carbone is with me who actually went

635
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 2: on a date with rex Hureman Niki. In the document

636
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 2: that the cyber experts recovered, it it's a planning document.

637
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 2: Remove marks from torture, remove id marks like tattoos, remove

638
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 2: trace DNA, remove head and hands from victims. Package for transport.

639
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 2: That's the body parts. The bodies package for transport will

640
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 2: need dropcloth, why towels, copsing toys, wood items. That's what

641
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 2: happened to these victims. That's what was done to them.

642
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 2: That was your future if you had not gotten that

643
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 2: instinct to get out of that restaurant.

644
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 8: And what's crazy is the documents, like reading them almost

645
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 8: like verbatim, mashed the way he talks about it, like

646
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 8: the hunt.

647
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 9: And not being seen in the area too.

648
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 8: Long like again specific to Jen and was he said

649
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,919
Speaker 8: he hypothesized that it was getting too late, the sun

650
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 8: was coming up. He didn't want to be seen with

651
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 8: the body.

652
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 2: So he was describing that to you what he thought

653
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:47,919
Speaker 2: the killer did.

654
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 8: Well, yeah, because he described how he thought they got

655
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 8: rid of the body.

656
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: What did he say.

657
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 8: His hypothesis of the one was that somebody very tall

658
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 8: could wear fishing gear, hunting gear, rubber and tread through

659
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 8: the marsh with the camouflaged bags and you wouldn't be seen, which.

660
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 2: Is exactly how some of the victims were hidden on

661
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 2: Gilgo Beach, walking through all that scrub and swampy area.

662
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 2: And speaking of wearing those clothes, we now have seen

663
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: new photos of Rex Huerman at a hunting club shooting

664
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 2: a gun which was about a mile from one of

665
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 2: his victims. And as we sign off, I've also learned

666
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 2: in the last days that there are Rex Hereman t

667
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 2: shirts being made by a pizza.

668
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: Parlor and they are for sale.

669
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 2: I wonder how the victims' families feel about that. Thank

670
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 2: you to all of our guests, especially to Nikki Carbone.

671
00:40:52,400 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 2: Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,