WEBVTT - 3 Traits of Lasting Relationships & What You Can Learn From Failed Relationships 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.639 You don't get to have an amazing relationship with someone 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:05.960 because of a promise or a commitment. You get to 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:08.680 do it because you renewed that promise and commitment on 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:11.959 a daily, weekly, monthly basis, not because you want to 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:14.720 extend the years you've been together, but because you want 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:24.560 to extend the growth. Hey, everyone, welcome back to awkward therapy. 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:28.360 Taboo topics, uncomfortable conversation. We don't even have a name 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:30.840 of every but we just know that we're doing something 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.600 that's uncomfortable, awkward, and difficult. But I'm doing with my 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.479 dear friend Lewis House, who I admire, I learned so 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:41.080 much from who we have these fascinating conversations with every 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.960 month for hours and hours and hours, and we find 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:46.800 it really useful to go back and forth and just 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:51.839 dissect a topic. So today's topic is something that I 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.840 think's going to interest a lot of people because we're 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:56.480 trying to ask questions that we all have in our 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:58.880 heads but no one ever says out loud because it's 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:02.560 kind of scary. It's it's hard to talk about the controversial, 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:05.760 especially if you're in a relationship. Today's one is a 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:09.520 scary one to ask and these are two men in relationships. 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.520 I've been married and with my wife for nearly ten 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:14.600 years now, so that's a long time. You're in a 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.080 relationship that you're very happy, maybe your girlfriend, Marty, and 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.800 I'm so happy to see you both happy, but we're 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.759 also both reflecting on these things. So the question is, 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:25.160 or the question we're starting with and then we'll kind 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.679 of get lost in it, is is it possible to 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:34.640 be exclusive with and love one person for your entire life? 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:39.520 For your life? Right? That's so we put it out there. Yeah, yeah, 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:41.720 and we want to encourage you to have this conversation, 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:44.840 so you know, with people at work, with people at home, 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:48.440 maybe not with your partner. Maybe maybe maybe that's a 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:52.440 good thing. Yeah, we want to encourage you to share 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:54.320 this with one person that you think it would be 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:56.960 interesting to have this conversation with. Maybe that is your 0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:59.640 partner or a friend or whatever, maybe your parents, maybe 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.920 your parents, and listen to this, share this conversation with 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:06.360 one person and set a time to have a discussion 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:09.200 about what you heard, what you liked, maybe what you 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:13.120 didn't like from this conversation, and share with us in 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:17.320 the comments below and this channel. What was the most 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:21.120 interesting thing or what you'd add to this. I think, yeah, 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:23.440 I love that. And by the way, the reason why 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:25.519 this is called awkward therapy is both me and Lewis 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:28.840 not therapists. We're not. We're trying to figure life out 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.359 and we believe that having opened an honest conversations help 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:33.480 us do that because you get to hear things from 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:37.640 another perspective and you get to just think about something 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:40.280 for a lot longer than like the second you make decisions. 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:42.880 So anyway, I mean, let's dive in. I think, so, 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:46.880 what's the answer can you do that? I first think 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:50.680 of when we grew up. Yeah, we watch a lot 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:56.040 of movies that would portray this fantasy or this ideal 0:02:56.120 --> 0:03:00.000 let's call it, that you find the prince or the princess, 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.640 you marry and it's happily ever after. And then in 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:07.080 the real world things happen. People move town, you get 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:09.680 an opportunity, who work somewhere, you have to do long distance, 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:13.000 and there's challenges. There was a breakup that someone had 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.600 and they're still lingering in the new conversation and they're 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:19.720 talking to their ex or things just happen in life, 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.000 or you're just on Instagram and you get distracted by 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:25.480 and you think that everyone else is better than the 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:29.200 relationship you have. There's all these shiny opportunities, right, or 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:31.600 these different people that could bring you more joy or 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:34.800 love than in the current relationship. And you and I 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:39.480 both have friends that are in let's call it open relationships. 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:42.560 I guess you call polyamory, right, where they have multiple 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:44.520 partners or you have one main partner and you have 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:49.160 multiple relationships. And we both know people that have been 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:54.400 married for a long time, decades who are happily married. 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:56.760 We both know people that have been married for decades 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:02.200 and are unhappily married. And so I guess I mean, 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:04.880 I think what you said sparked something for me. Like 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:09.600 I grew up as a hopeless romantic based on movies 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.720 and music, so I always believe that there's the one, 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:17.560 and I wanted this big romantic relationship. And I love 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:22.000 like flowers and like poetry and like long walks and 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:26.479 surprises and gifts because I brought into what Hollywood showed me. 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:29.160 So for me, I think for a long period of 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.520 my life, I believed that love was what I saw 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.440 in the movies. And I know that sounds ridiculous, but 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.440 in my teens, I would say that was massively what 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.039 I saw, and I would watch American movies, so people 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:43.440 getting asked out to prom or like was like a 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.719 big deal in American movies, or whether it's like finding 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:51.880 that one person who's gonna solve everything right, and then 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:54.240 you start recognizing that, oh, wait a minute, I had 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:56.960 a few relationships that look like that on the outside, 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:59.400 but then they didn't feel that way. Or wait a minute, 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:01.880 I've had a few a cups now, or wait a minute, 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:04.120 like I thought this person was the one, but they weren't. 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:06.599 And then you start recognizing, now that I've been in 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:10.280 a long relationship, long term relationship, you start realizing love 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.520 looks completely different. And so I think for me, the 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:15.559 way I address this or the way I think about 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:18.279 this is that first of all, you have to define 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:22.120 what love means to you and what you want love 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.760 to be. For some people, they just want love to 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:32.000 feel like attraction, infatuation, desire, And if that's how you 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.880 define love, chances are you're going to want a new 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:39.520 person every month or every year because desire or that 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:46.200 type of chemical desire explosiveness fades eventually. The study showed 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:48.159 that too and I'm not saying that you can't have 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.600 desire for someone I know. I know one couple has 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.680 been married for like thirty years and they would still 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:54.880 say they have that I love. I think, yeah, there's 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.400 different levels of desire. There's like a conscious, healthy desire 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.039 where you admire, respect, you're inspired fired by, and that 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:04.359 creates that chemistry in that whether you want to call 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.800 it sexual desire or whatever desire you create in your 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:11.599 intimacy and relationship. But the explosive like unhealthy desire I 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:14.839 feel like only comes when you're kind of trauma bonding 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.400 each other, like early on, right, you see something and 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:19.560 you're like, I want that, But then there was never 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:23.240 like a foundation of values, what you really want in 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:27.400 your life together, agreements, you know, this conscious conversation around 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:30.960 being a couple. Yes, yes, And I would say one 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:32.640 thing you said, which is really interesting to me because 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:37.080 I think it's another societal narrative, is that the desire fades. 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.760 And really what we both know that desire deepens, like 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:43.400 it becomes about deepen absolutely, and so it's not that 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.240 it goes away, it's just that it evolves. But if 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:50.120 you are only into that initial desire and I remember 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:54.000 for a long time. I mean, my greatest joy came 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.680 from the pursuit and the chase and the conquest, pre 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.280 month life. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, I got a lot yeah, 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:02.760 pre month life. So I got a lot of joy 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:07.120 out of wanting to see if I could get someone 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:09.240 like that was the mindset, yeah, because that was the 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:11.480 mindset that I was brought up in. Now, of course, 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:13.560 when I look back at this, I don't believe in 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:15.840 that as a value. I don't think. I don't think 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.760 women or anyone as something to get. But I think 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.440 growing up as a teenager who wasn't exposed to any 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.040 form of wisdom or insight, you grow up with that 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.160 mentality of like, you're only trying to prove it to yourself, 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:29.720 that's what you Or you're like buddies or something to 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:31.760 be like, oh this person's into me, or luck what 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:33.760 you know, which ultimately is you trying to prove to 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.960 yourself that you are worthy so your friends respect you, 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.120 and so now you're going out to obtain this thing. 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.720 So how long were you doing that up until? Like 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:46.760 how old were you when you stopped the chase? Twenty one? 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:53.680 Like twenty one? Better man than me? What I realized 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.640 was that there was a lot of fun to the chase, right, 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:04.000 They're so fun. It's like this addictive drug is like, 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.680 there is someone out there that I'm attracted to or 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:10.480 has something that I want or I want to be 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:14.120 in contact with them, whether that's a relationship or a 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:18.040 hook up or whatever might being right, and then the 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:23.800 attempt to go after I guess accomplishing this feat is 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:27.520 like a drug. It is like this chemical drug that 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.840 makes you kind of obsessive about it right until you 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.160 get it, and then when you get it from a 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:36.640 place that is unconscious. It never was fulfilling or rewarding 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:39.360 for me, right, and it was creating a foundation from 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.680 something that wasn't based on values, vision, lifestyle things like 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:46.240 that that never worked out for me. It was never healthy. 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:47.839 It might have been fun for six months, or it 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:49.640 might have been some good intentions here and there, but 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.080 it never long term worked out because there wasn't a 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:56.839 foundation of a conscious relationship being developed. And I think 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:59.280 that's what you did with Roddy, Like when you got 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:02.760 out of them the Monk Life and you started the 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.240 relationship with Roddy, You guys started from the beginning. What 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:08.319 you've told me is about here are my values, Here's 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:11.160 my mission. I'm on a mission to be impactful and 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:13.839 served humanity. This is the type of marriage I want 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:15.679 to create, This is the type of life I want 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:17.240 to have. This is some of the stuff I remember 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:20.239 you're telling me. And I think going into a relationship 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:24.280 with conscious conversations is probably one of the only ways 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:27.760 to set yourself up to win for a lifetime together. Yeah, 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.600 if you want that. And I know a lot of 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:32.480 I know a lot of people who say to me, well, 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.320 I enjoy the chase in the pursuit like I did. 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.400 And you pretty much want a new person every month, 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:41.200 right for men at least or men that I know, 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:45.360 where you kind of can get bored quickly. Someone entertains 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:46.880 you for a few months, and then after that you 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.800 need something new and you need to chase again, and 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:51.560 the drug again, which is a great definition, and you 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:54.600 keep moving and moving and moving, and then the individual 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:58.480 has to decide. I think the choices do I want 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:02.240 a long term relationship ship or do I not? And 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:06.520 there are gifts and pain points in both, Like there 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:10.240 are really exciting, amazing things about getting someone new every 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.760 few months, and there are really painful parts about it, 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.640 And then there's loads of amazing things about being with 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:17.480 someone for a long amount of time, or at least 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:19.520 long for me is ten years, because that's the longest 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:21.920 I've ever done with someone, But then there are loads 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:24.679 of challenging parts about that. And I think everyone just 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.600 has to know what type of life they're signing up for. 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:31.520 And that's why we're having this conversation because I don't 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:35.560 think that you have to love one person for the 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:37.680 rest of your life. I don't think someone shouldn't be 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:41.960 forced to believe that's the only way life works, especially 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:44.760 because some people dedicate their life to someone, then that 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:49.600 person leaves them, whether naturally or unnaturally, someone leaves them 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.280 because there's infidelity or whatever there may be. And the 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.600 point is that you can't force someone to say there 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:59.199 is only one person. And I think often the institutions 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:03.640 of the world, marriage and religion often kind of enforced 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.320 people to believe that when you got married at twenty one, 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:07.760 you got to be with this person with the rest 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:10.199 of your life, or you're a failure correct or you've 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:14.000 made mistakes, or you something something's wrong with you. Yeah, 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:15.480 And I think that's one of the things why people 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:20.000 stay in a relationship for way too long because they 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:22.200 don't want to be something made, a mistake or something 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:24.160 wrong with them. So they try and try and try 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.640 to make it work. And maybe they could have made 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.160 it work, but they just weren't an alignment or something. 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:31.200 But a lot of people I think are in shame 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:33.679 when they get a divorce, or they're in guilt, or 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:38.240 they're in sadness for this loss because it didn't work out. 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:42.000 They weren't who they thought they were. Something happened, right. 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:44.560 It's a lot I've seen people who have been through divorce. 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.160 It's not fun any Just a breakup is not fun, 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.600 even if you got married or not. People go through 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.880 breakups and struggle for a long time, it seems like. 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.080 So relationships can be messy for sure. Yeah, But what 0:11:56.160 --> 0:12:02.480 I have discovered in one year of yeah, well one 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.840 and a half years of intense therapy starting a relationship. 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.080 This has been something that I've never done, but for 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:12.080 the last ten years I've wanted to start a relationship 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.760 in therapy, and me and Martha started that when we 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:17.440 first started kind of hanging out. We weren't really dating 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:18.880 for the first few months. We just kind of want 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:21.040 to hang it out and she was dating other people. 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:23.280 I was dating other people or just kind of out 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:28.120 in the world. When we started getting more serious about it, 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.679 I was like, listen, I've always wanted to do this, 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.439 and I think it's a deal breaker if we don't 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.320 do this, because I just want to make sure that 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:41.600 we are setting ourselves up for success in terms of peace, joy, 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.400 and for me, success in a relationship is two individuals 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:50.040 independently living their lives and sharing their lives together. Like 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:52.720 she's gone for a couple of weeks working on a 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:54.480 project and a movie right now, and I'm in Los 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.760 Angeles doing my thing. I know with you and your wife, 0:12:57.800 --> 0:12:59.640 she might be gone or you might be traveling, and 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.160 some times you're doing it together and sometimes to part 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:06.000 and having the freedom and flexibility to be yourself and 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:09.040 also be in a relationship. I think that's for me, 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.360 what a success at this season of my life. Maybe 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.920 in ten years it'll look like something different. Yeah, And 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.760 I think that's the point, right seeing life as seasons, 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.880 because you have to ask the question like why do 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:25.760 we think or why have you in this season decided 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:29.160 to be exclusive to one person? And I think often 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:33.920 we do that subconsciously. I don't think everyone intentionally thinks 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:38.280 I feel I'm ready for a long term relationship. Now. 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:40.160 I don't think we do that. I think we assume 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:42.720 that at one point you're meant to kind of get 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.479 into one and settle down, rather than the conscious choice, 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.640 or you're consciously avoiding that and you're going no, no, 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.000 no, no no no. The last thing I want to do 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:52.600 is get married or settled down or be in a 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.040 long term relationship. And so for me, it's like everyone 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:56.920 has to sit there and look in the mirror and go, 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.640 why do I want either right now? What's serves me 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.120 and what serves my vision and what serves what I'm 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:05.920 trying to do. That's what it is. And I think 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:07.520 when you go back to what is my vision for 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.120 my life and what do I really want? What will 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:12.520 support that vision at the highest level. If you're a 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:16.920 single guy and your vision is to be really focused 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:19.480 on your mission and your business and growth and your health, 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:22.920 and if you're spreading your energy around ten different women 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.080 you're dating at once over a year or something, or 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:28.040 however many you want to date, there is a lot 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.800 of excitement to that lifestyle, But then you have to 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:35.360 unwind and essentially reject every person that you're not going 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.360 to be with. Ye. So there's like this unwinding, there's 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.560 this hurt phase. It's this phase where you're you know, 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:47.240 having challenging conversations and detaching from that intimacy of those connections. 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:48.800 And that's a lot of energy. It's a lot of 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.520 effort that's pulling you from your health or your other 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:55.040 relationships or building something deeper and more meaningful when you 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:58.720 have ten service level relationships as opposed to one deeper. 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:02.840 I have different friends who have tried the whole polyamory thing, 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.960 who have had multiple partners at the same time, who've 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.040 had one person and then other people in the side, 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:14.200 And I've never met one man who has successfully, i 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:18.000 mean had peace in their life, let's say, consistently over 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.120 years doing that. There might be a year or two 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.760 where it seems manageable, yeah, but then it's like there's 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.760 always a breakdown. Yeah. I've coached people and worked with 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.760 people in that space, and I've just found that it's 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:34.920 hard enough with one with one person's emotions, yes, then 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:36.240 to deal with two. And this is what we do 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.080 as humans, which I find really interesting, is that we 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:43.960 make everything extreme. So we're so scared of codependency, so 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.720 therefore we go to polyamory, yeah, because we're like, I 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.040 don't want to be dependent on one person. So instead 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:53.640 of figuring out the trauma as to why I become codependent, 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:56.720 and instead of purifying and figuring out what it is 0:15:56.760 --> 0:16:00.560 that makes me codependent, I just believe that an external 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:05.080 shell of being in a polyamous relationship will solve that. 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.080 That's often the mindset of people that I've met. I'm 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.560 not saying that that's the only reason. I'm not saying that, Yeah, please, 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.440 hate is in the comments and control. It's like, I'm 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.400 not saying this is the only reason, And I'm just 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:16.080 saying that the people I've spoken to, they've said to 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.960 me that they were scared of being codependent. So they 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.240 believed if they had more partners than they wouldn't be codependent. Yeah, 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.960 or they'd get the excitement that they were missing in 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.280 their relationship. They wanted the relationship that would give them 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:31.680 support and peace and structure. But if they were missing 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:34.480 the excitement, Okay, let me go find the excitement somewhere else. 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.240 And for me, that made a lot of sense. In 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.720 my twenties, thinking that way because I was just like, oh, 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:42.560 I don't know if you could do this with one person. 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:44.520 For a long time, that was probably one of my 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:47.479 biggest fears, that I would be in love with someone 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:52.960 or love someone consciously, but that sexual desire, that exciting 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:55.880 feeling that happens in the first whatever three to six 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:59.080 nine months, I wouldn't have with a person once I 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.400 was married with them, when I'd feel trapped. Yeah, I 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:05.600 had to really heal a lot of things from childhood 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:11.320 that built that script or narrative to realize that it's 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:18.560 possible with conscious effort to create connection, chemistry, desire with 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:22.840 one person if they're the right person in alignment also 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.679 doing the conscious work. And that's where I said, like, 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.440 I need to start therapy so that we have agreements, 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:33.000 so I can feel peaceful, to be myself my full 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:36.920 expression and dive into the relationship with curiosity and fun 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:41.360 and excitement and desire in the relationship. And so far 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:47.959 it's been extraordinary in the process of therapy before problems. Yeah, absolutely. 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:49.800 I don't know if it's something that you guys did, 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:51.960 or if you did something like that where you had 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:55.399 conscious conversations about kids or what happens with money and 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:57.760 all these different things. Before marriage was that something And 0:17:57.800 --> 0:17:59.800 I don't think they have a stop, but there's important 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.679 to have before and before I get there. I think 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.879 there was one thing about the that I wanted to 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:10.040 mention about polyamory is that it's it's not that basically 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:14.800 there's no external shell that's going to solve your internal 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:18.560 trauma and pain. So whether you're with one person or 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.919 whether you're with three or two or four people, neither 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:24.600 of those are the cure. But you can't say to 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:26.920 someone like being with one person and being married to 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:30.360 them is the cure for your pain and trauma, or 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:32.840 that if you have two people then you won't be codependent, 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:35.359 Like that doesn't solve it. And so you've got to 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:37.120 figure out what is it again that I really want? 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:39.879 And so for me and rather like I, all I 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:44.840 can ever do is be honest about where I'm at 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:47.720 and what I want at that time, in this moment, 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:51.040 in this moment, because if you made a promise your 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:53.280 wedding day about ten years and that's why I don't 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.840 think it's a promise. I think it's an ongoing conversation 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:00.640 that is always changing and evolving it's not a commitment 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.760 or a promise. It's not saying I am definitely up 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:07.520 for this. It's saying I am open to this, I'm 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:10.200 considering this, or I'm closed to this, this is not 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:12.680 what I want. So if someone knows they don't want 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.399 to have children, but they never talk about that with 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:18.520 someone who they know wants to have children because you're 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.800 scared of raising that, that's unhealthy because that is going 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.640 to come up one day. Or if your desire long 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.359 term is to live in another city or country, but 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:31.000 you've not made someone aware that that's what you're considering. 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:32.960 And so I don't think this is about this is 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:35.880 what I want and this is my promise. It's more 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:39.199 just saying this is kind of how I imagine my life, right, like, 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.560 this is kind of how I think about it. Things change, 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.040 people change, and all these different things. I think Patrick 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.399 bet David said this. I can't remember where he said this, 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:50.400 but I believe he said like every year around New 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:53.000 Year's or Christmas. I think this was him where he 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:54.760 says he and his wife get together and say, did 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:56.360 we want to do this for one more year? Yeah? 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:00.359 And what worked this year? What didn't work? How can 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:01.600 we make it better, and do we want to do 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:03.679 this for one more year as opposed to for the 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.359 rest of our lives? Like thinking all the way fifty 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:09.960 years away, ye, can seem kind of daunting for some people. 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:11.639 And I think that's an interesting approach, and I think 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.959 it could be like, you know, every day, what are 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:18.600 we greatful for? Was there something that was off today 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:21.639 that we can address so that it always is improving 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:25.880 and growing in and a conversation of growth every day, 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.439 once a week, once a month, every year, like be 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.640 having the conversation is the key. I think making a 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:36.800 lifelong decision is a recipe for failure. What is it anything? 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:40.760 Forget loving another person? What could you say that you're 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:43.760 going to do every day for the rest of your life, 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:46.800 apart from shower and brush your teeth and breathe and breathe? Like, 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.159 what is there that you could truly say, hand on 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:51.560 your heart that you know you're able to maintain. I 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:57.080 don't think there's anything so to create that promise really starts. 0:20:57.119 --> 0:20:59.720 And I do something similar more regularly with RADI where 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.040 I always check in with rather and be like, is 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.320 this the relationship you want? Is this going in the 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:07.520 direction you want. It's a great question is it going 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.120 in the way I want? Because if it isn't, are 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.479 we willing to change? And if we're not willing to change, 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:16.800