1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 4 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 5 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: name is no and I am Ben you are you 6 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: don't call it a comeback, ladies and gentlemen, but wait, 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: can we get a slam on the brakes? Noise and 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: no perfect You can in fact call this a comeback 9 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: because this is part two of our interview with Robert 10 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: Maser in our previous episode, which we do recommend you 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: listen to before listening to this if you if you 12 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: haven't yet, go ahead and stop this listen to part one. 13 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: We'll be here. And in this episode we're going to 14 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: focus on money laundering. In the previous episode it was 15 00:00:55,440 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: all about the operations, and this one it's what's happened 16 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: right now. Are there still banks out there that are 17 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: taking money from drug cartels and somehow funneling funneling them 18 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: through banks in in Europe and other places and then 19 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: getting money that they can use just out in the open. 20 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: And not to mention, I mean, so much of what 21 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: is going on now um has been built off of 22 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: the work that Mr Maser did in terms of exposing 23 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 1: some of these techniques that the banks used that we 24 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: will talk about in much more detail in this part 25 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: of the interview. Um, so you could kind of look 26 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 1: at part one is sort of a history and this 27 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: part two being sort of more of a of a 28 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 1: present and moving forward kind of perspective on where we 29 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: are now and where all of this insane undercover work 30 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: that Mr Maser did has led us to spot on. 31 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: So first, let's take a little bit of a closer 32 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: look at what money laundering actually is. There's a great 33 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: article on it at our parent website, How Stuff Works. 34 00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: I know that side, Yes, yes, I would hope that 35 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: we are the three of us are familiar with that side. 36 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: We hope you are, two ladies and gentlemen. In the 37 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: article how Money Laundering Works. The author here, let's see, 38 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: the author is Julia Layton, and you always know it's 39 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: going to be a good article if Julia is writing 40 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: the The author explains money laundering in in this way. First, 41 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: it's very common. Money laundering happens in almost every country 42 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: in the world. Second, there are numerous avenues of money laundering. Right, 43 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: so one scheme, for instance, typically involved transferring money through 44 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: several different countries to obscure where it came from. Right, 45 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 1: So we know that a million dollars coming from France 46 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: or London or the US is treated with less suspicion 47 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:52,239 Speaker 1: than a million dollars coming from Columbia, for instance, or 48 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: a million dollars just appearing in Afghanistan right, or in 49 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: the case of the U S Military, millions of dollars 50 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: disappe here in somewhere. So at its simplest, it's just 51 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: the act of making money that comes from source A 52 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: look like it comes from source B. So this is 53 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: not the money from a cocaine empire. This is the 54 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: money from legitimate yet ridiculously successful series of laundromats or 55 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: what's another come on, laundromats for laundering money. Yeah, for me, 56 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: it reminds me of the onion router a little bit, 57 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, Or even like a VPN where 58 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: it like takes you know, it obscures your location, um 59 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: like so that you you can't pin down where the 60 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: person that's doing the illegal downloading or whatever it is 61 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: actually is and it basically disguises their IP address. That 62 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: same thing occurred to me totally. Yeah, or if anything, 63 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: it slows the process of tracking it way way down. Right. So, 64 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: for fans of the television show Breaking Bad, if we 65 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: want to have a pop culture reference in here, for 66 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: fans of that show, laser tag right right, Uh there 67 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: there are series there's a series of events where in UH, 68 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: a group of drug dealers is trying to find the correct, 69 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: safest way to launder money. And at the level they 70 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: are operating at UH, they are looking for a business 71 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: that primarily moves a lot of cash, and so one 72 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: of the would be businesses is a laser tag places 73 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: Nold points out UH. And then they also eventually settle 74 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: on a car wash, another place that usually UH uses 75 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: a lot of cash rather than credit or debit cards. 76 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: The most common types of criminals who need to launder 77 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: money are, of course drug traffickers, right, but they're not 78 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: the only people. There are also corrupt politicians, embezzlers, terrorists, yeah, 79 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: mobsters who shook some money out of some people, Yeah, 80 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: racketeers and then which sounds way more friendly and somehow 81 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: like some you know, Yeah, it just makes me think 82 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: of a mousketeer. I don't know why it makes anything 83 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: or that movie The Rocketeer, Rocketeer. And it also makes 84 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: me think of, uh, maybe there's a show in Vegas 85 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: that's mafio so only called the Racketeers, and maybe they 86 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: on camera shake people down. There's those you know, those 87 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: can can dancers at Radio City Music called the Rackets. Yeah, 88 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: it's really they're called the rockets already. So did you 89 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: already mention white collar like embezzlement like high levels. Yeah, 90 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: that's a fantastic point. We touched on that, but let's 91 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: go into a little more detail. Well, it seems like 92 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: you have to do this if you're siphoning money out 93 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: of your the company that you work for, let's say 94 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: your high level executive. And we've seen this happen at 95 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: several companies H and Ron, a couple others. Um, it 96 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: seems like you would want to obscure that money as well. 97 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: And they're going to use the same tactics that a 98 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: drug Affrica is going to use. Yes, also, one of 99 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 1: my favorites, or at least favorite terms confidence men scammers right, 100 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: rip off enthusiasts. So these common then will do the 101 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: same thing regardless. What they do is they enter in 102 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 1: this money for perhaps into an offshore account of somewhere, 103 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: you know, someplace, and then filter that through a process 104 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: called layering. Right, so maybe this goes from the off 105 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: shore account, it goes to another offshore accounter, it goes 106 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: to account in Europe or account in the US, or 107 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: maybe they just buy a boat with this off shore account, 108 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: and then it goes into what's called the integration phase, 109 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 1: wherein it goes to maybe the boat and when the 110 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: off shores goes to a US account or maybe one 111 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: of these secondary accounts in Europe or in the U 112 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: S wherever goes into a business investment. So now, uh, 113 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: now Mr Barr to be from part one is no 114 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: longer a no longer a purveyor of human trafficking spoils. 115 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: We get really dark with that one. You have actually 116 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: retired that alias and now going by the name Steven Stevenson, 117 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: Stephen Stevenson, Okay, cool, uh yeah, alright, Steven Stevenson. It's 118 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: a whole new man. And he owns a chain of 119 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: blockbusters in Hungary or something, and that's where he makes 120 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: all of that's where he has made his millions blockbusters 121 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: killing it in Hungry. Right Now, that's one guy. It's 122 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: Steve Stevenson magic. Uh So, so we see this pretty simply, right, 123 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,119 Speaker 1: uh Sending the money through various financial transactions to change 124 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: its form make it difficult to follow. Musilla or Maser 125 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: dealt with a lot of this in h in the 126 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: course of operations see chase. And then the integration, the 127 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: stage where it enters the mainstream economy and it looks legit, 128 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: you know, it's a bunch of hung Garrean blockbusters or something. 129 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: This this means that you can use the money if 130 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: you're a criminal without getting caught at this point, if 131 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: you successfully integrate, because it's very very difficult to catch 132 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: a launderer during the integration stage if there's no documentation 133 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: all the way back to the the original point. You know. 134 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: So we mentioned white collar crime, we mentioned drug traffic, 135 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: and we mentioned terrorists activities, and we mentioned some of 136 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: the methods of of this. Right, I can walk us 137 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: through a money laundering thing called smurfing. Sounds grea wait 138 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: I remember hearing about this. Smurfing is when you break 139 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: up the amount. So you've got a million dollars whatever, 140 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: let's say a million dollars, You're gonna break it up 141 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 1: into a bunch of smaller payments of let's say, nine thousand, 142 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: nine nine pion dollars, because there's a ten thousand dollar 143 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: limit when you're operating in this dark money field, because 144 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: if you hit that ten thousand dollars, you're gonna get 145 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: pinned no matter where you're trying to move that money. UM. 146 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: I tried to move ten thousand dollars of savings one 147 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: time when I went to buy I know this is 148 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: a personal thing, but when I tried to put a 149 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: down payment on my house and it got pains, and 150 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: the person told me, well, why don't you break it 151 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: up into two payments of five thousand dollars just so 152 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,719 Speaker 1: you don't have to go through all the hassle and 153 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: for anyone who wants to do that. So at ten 154 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 1: thousand dollars, every US bank has to report any transaction yes, 155 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: and and then there's all kinds of paperwork you have 156 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: to get into. The smurfs the origin of this name. 157 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: The smurfs are the multiple people who deposit these below 158 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: ten thousand dollar amounts in different bank accounts, one or 159 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: more bank accounts, and some of our audience members who 160 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: maybe work in a financial or banking system are familiar 161 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: with this, and we would love to hear your stories 162 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: if you've met some smurfs. That term is also using 163 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: breaking bad again for the folks that would go out 164 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: and buy just the legal amount of pseudo epha draine, 165 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 1: which is the precursor for making methamphetamine. And so they 166 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,599 Speaker 1: were they were like you would get flagged or you 167 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: would not you would have they would report you for 168 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: buying you know, a certain amount, and if you just 169 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: go out and buy just below that amount and you 170 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: get a bunch of people doing it and they call smurfs, 171 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: then you get enough to make your batch. So's and 172 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: there are a couple of other things that there are 173 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 1: a couple of other I guess avenues we should call 174 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: them where wherein dirty money can be cleaned or laundered. 175 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: Their alternative banking institutions of sorts, many that are traditional, 176 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: like the Kalas system in Pakistan and India. These are 177 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: trust based systems that don't have a paper trail. They 178 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: out they operate outside of government control. And then of 179 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: course there's one of my as a kid, this is 180 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: one of my favorite idea is shell companies. You know 181 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: a corporation that is a po box in some country 182 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: that's very good at not paying close attention to business transactions. 183 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: And these companies exist for no other reason than to 184 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: clean money. So they'll take in money as a payment 185 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: for some kind of good or service. Let's call it 186 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: yacht maintenance, you know, uh with Murdoch Farnsworth's yacht maintenance business. Right. 187 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: And what that does is allow people to say that 188 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: they spent this money right to get their yacht fixed, 189 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: their non existent yacht. It doesn't have to be a 190 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: fake company doing that. You can do it in a 191 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:49,199 Speaker 1: real a real company that just handles cash, like what 192 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: kind of we talked about earlier, which is crazy. You 193 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: could you could walk into a casino if you know 194 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: the guys, and you have a little deal just because 195 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: the casino deals with cash so often you just go, well, 196 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: you know, here's some cash that came into the casino today. Yeah, 197 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: And those are a little different because they're they're front companies, 198 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: so they yeah, they are obviously like they're legitimate ways 199 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: to do this. They're actually providing a good or a service. 200 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: And there are two ways to do that. We could 201 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 1: either you like how all three of us now are 202 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: working together to launder money. Actually do you like how 203 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: all of us are working together? Now, Listeners, you're part 204 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: of this. If you're a copy you have to tell 205 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 1: us is technically not true, by the way, so I 206 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: don't believe any of your friends who say that. But 207 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 1: there are two ways to do this, generally, if we're 208 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: talking about a front company rather than a shell company. 209 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: Oh and just a side note. The thing I loved 210 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: the reason I love the idea of shell companies because 211 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: when I was very young and there were shell gas 212 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: stations around and I thought, Wow, they must be running 213 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: drugs or doing something bad and no one knows. I 214 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: thought I had figured out, you know what a shell 215 00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: company was back then. Oh my gosh, right I was. 216 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that's genius. No one will ever 217 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: investigate them. I was wrong on all accounts. But so 218 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: there are two ways we've want to do a legitimate 219 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: front end business. And one way is to deal with 220 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: the business that make uses so much money, so much 221 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: cash or electronic funds, that it's easy to slip some 222 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: bad apples into the into the bushel, into the basket. 223 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: And those would be things, like you said, Matt, like 224 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: a casino or brokerage firm, or you can use the 225 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: smaller stuff that often uses cash just in a stay 226 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: to day. We can name a few. We said, car washes, 227 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: that's one, bars, check cashing stores, and America's favorite strip clubs. 228 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, lots of lots on, lots of ones, 229 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: lots of lots of two dollar bills. I don't know 230 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: in those comments. So the the effects about this, uh, 231 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: we we have Mr Maser talking a little bit about 232 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: the effects of money laundry when it gets larger and larger. 233 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: What happens is international banks become involved. So b c 234 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: c I was the seventh largest bank in the world, 235 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: as Mr Maser said in his previous interview, but b 236 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: c c I is far from the only bank that 237 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: has been involved with this. For instance, we talked a 238 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: little bit about some banks in the past. Yeah, he 239 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: hits Wacovia, a huge scandal there. We hit HSBC in 240 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: the interview and Mr Maser goes into pretty good detail 241 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: on both of those saying exactly what they did. Because 242 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: I think we should probably get to Mr Maser himself 243 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: as he um had lived this all of the things 244 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: that we're talking about, and there's still some very interesting 245 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: things to say yet in this interview. But before we 246 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: get to that, we're just gonna take a quick break 247 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: for a sponsor. So you mentioned that this is occurring now, 248 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: and you'd also mentioned in the past, I think it 249 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: was you did an interview with The New York Times 250 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: and you spoke about the hundreds of leads that were 251 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: not followed up after the c Chase investigation. And it 252 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: makes me wonder what would have been uncovered if they 253 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: would have followed those leads, and could it possibly have 254 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: kind of stopped some of what we're seeing today. M hmm, Okay, 255 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: the first party I got the leads part, the first 256 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: part of yours still happening today? Yeah, well, it's it's 257 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: definitely still happening today because we've got the scourge of 258 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: illegal drugs all over the world to a greater degree 259 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: than we've ever had it before. Um. You know, the 260 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: United Nations on Drugs and Crime to study a few 261 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: years ago trying to identify the amount of money seeking 262 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: secrecy from governments, the amount of money seeking money laundering 263 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: services every year. And in that study that they did, 264 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: and you can get that just on the internet. Just 265 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: put in U N O d C. United Nations on 266 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: Drugs and crime, UM, money laundering, UM. Just look for 267 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: some other keywords. But long and short of it is 268 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: they identifying that the annual drug proceeds illegal drug proceeds 269 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: was somewhere in the vicinity of about four billion dollars. 270 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: And if you look at the Department of Justice Asset 271 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: forfit your website, you can see what the annual forfeitures 272 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: are for the Department Justice. Keep in mind that that's 273 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: for all kinds of cases, so pharmaceutical UH finds against 274 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: pharmaceuticals for UH, different types of offenses UM, medicare, medic fraud, 275 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: all kinds of different things are in there. You boil 276 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: it down to the drug money, and it comes down 277 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: to you. There's no you can say it's more than 278 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: a billion. To hear so fo verses a billion, that's 279 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 1: one four one um. Clearly, UH, there are professionals that 280 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 1: are involved helping people to in a sophisticated way, launder 281 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: this money. Otherwise we'll be finding more than one fourth UM. 282 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: If you want to look at the deferred prosecutions UM 283 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: that have happened, and even if we just stick to 284 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: those that relate to drug proceeds, you know you have 285 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: in two thousand and twelve the HSBC case UM. In 286 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: that instance, UM, just google senator UM Elizabeth Warren HSBC 287 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: UM YouTube and you'll you'll get to hear our own 288 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: senators talking about how atrocious it is in their view 289 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: that a bank can launder own nearly a billion dollars 290 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: and nobody goes to jail and UH they pay at 291 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 1: one point nine two billion dollar fine. UM. That's just 292 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: a few years ago before that you have Wacovia Bank 293 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,239 Speaker 1: paid a hundred sixty million dollar fine. What were they 294 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: doing They had no branches in Mexico. What they did 295 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: is they sent their account executives from Philadelphia, Miami to 296 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: Sinaloa and other areas of Mexico to deal with houses 297 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: of exchange causes. They come you as correspondent bank relationships. 298 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: And what they did is they wounded up taking fourteen 299 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: billion dollars in cash deposits UH and bringing it in 300 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: over a period of about three years back into the 301 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: United States. They did that on by by having the 302 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: cash brought in by armored cars and flown in and 303 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: gone going to accounting houses established by the bank in 304 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: different parts of the United States. I know one of 305 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: them is in California. UM. Tell me how it is 306 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: that you don't have any branches in Mexico, but you 307 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 1: decide to market that business. You bring in fourteen billion. 308 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: I was a money launder undercover. My money that we 309 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: got from my clients earned five tens and twenties. So 310 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: it's a big bundle. Uh. If it was twenty dollar 311 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: bills and fourteen billion, I think I did the math, 312 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 1: and it came out to about seven eighty tons. So 313 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: who would you get the seven tons of cash from? 314 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: You know, you look at the HSDC bas uh, they 315 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: were repatriated in US currency a hundred and six billion 316 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,360 Speaker 1: dollars a hundred and six billion, So if that was twenties, 317 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: it comes out to about I think it was fifty 318 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: eight hundred tons. So UM, I don't I don't know. 319 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: I don't understand how we we wind up um dealing 320 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: in this boat bank note business the way we have historically, 321 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: and and we don't wind up with very big of 322 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: a change, you know, in the the overall picture, in 323 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: the way of the how deep the talents of the 324 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: cartels are into um uh, into the drug trade um 325 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: and you know, and things have actually gotten worse in 326 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: the last well, I would say in the last seven 327 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: or eight years, because now there's a body of cases 328 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: that clearly show that the that terrorist organizations are working 329 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: closely with the Colombian cartels and the Mexican cartels. Then 330 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: you couldn't look at the case. The last name is 331 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 1: Juma j o U m a A. I'm in a 332 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: y m N Duma j o U m a A. 333 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: So google that and drug trafficking. UM. The Mr. Juma 334 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: is a Lebanese Columbian who was very instrumental in UM 335 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: the exportation of about three hundred tons of cocaine and 336 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: the laundering about a half a billion dollars in drug 337 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: proceeds and UM when the funds were traced in that case, UM, 338 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: there were definitely portions of the drug proceeds that went 339 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: into accounts that have been substantiated to have been used 340 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: by Hesbela for terrorist related activity. So we have Hesblah, 341 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: Hamas al Qaeda and other organizations that have recognized this 342 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: as a way to UH generate revenue for their illegal activities. So, UM, yes, 343 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: this stuff is still going on. That's part of why 344 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: I feel it's so important to share this information with 345 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: the world. UM. There's a couple of reasons I think 346 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: it's so important. One, I think it's extraordinarily important because 347 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 1: this case was a team effort. I'd say that at 348 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: the heights of the operation two fifty or more, there 349 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 1: are a lot of masers out there. There are literally 350 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: dozens of people who volunteer to work long term undercover 351 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: because they want to be a part of making a 352 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: difference and they want to serve the public. Um and 353 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: and I think we lose sight of that in today's 354 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: day and age for some strange reason, Um, we don't 355 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: realize that there are people out there who they're not 356 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: eager to do this, but if it should happen, are 357 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: committed to give their life for us, just like soldiers 358 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: on a battlefield. And the greatest majority of the law 359 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: members of the law enforcement community, in my view, are 360 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 1: good and honorable people who are prepared to make that sacrifice. Uh. 361 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: And and today especially when we look at unfortunately in 362 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: every profession, I'm sure journalism as well. You know, you 363 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 1: have a bell curve of life, and you have some 364 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: people who are probably shouldn't be journalists. Well, we've got 365 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: been in law enforcement too, and when they do something stupid, Um, 366 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: I think it's really so unfair to paint that stupidity 367 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: on the entire profession, because the greatest majority of people 368 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: out there are truly willing to give their lives for 369 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: you and your families to give you a better place 370 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: to live and to get the world a better place 371 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: to exist. So that's a part of it, and the 372 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: other part of it is to make sure that the 373 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: American public knows that this is a constant problem. The 374 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: equation we're using is the best thing I guess we've 375 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: figured we can come across. But if things are getting worse, 376 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: maybe we need to reassess what the equation is because 377 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: we can't continue to allow governments to become corrupted, and 378 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: we can't continue to allow um a lot of people 379 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: to get extraordinarily sick um from the use of illegal drugs. 380 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,719 Speaker 1: So something needs to be done. And it's something that 381 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: my experience to date tells me is that the equation 382 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:34,479 Speaker 1: can benefit substantially from an added amount of education, treatment, 383 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: and economic opportunity, at least in this country. Um, I 384 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: think that could make a I think that could make 385 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: a positive add on to the formula that we now have. 386 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: I think it's really an opportunity. Through this film to 387 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: be entertained, but it's also an opportunity to use that 388 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: platform to talk about the issues because these are issues 389 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: that affect each and every one of us. YEA, And 390 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: we really appreciate the message that you are sending with 391 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: this regarding the what what's the old definition of insanity? 392 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? Right? Um? So, 393 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: Mr Maser, what is what in your opinion? You talked 394 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: a little bit about education, right and treatment? What in 395 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: your opinions should change in terms of policy or legislation 396 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: to prevent this situation where banks are essentially seeing these 397 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 1: fines as a cost of doing business tax m hm, Well, 398 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: I think it goes to the same thing we can 399 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 1: say about the wrongdoing in the law enforcement community. Individual responsibility, 400 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 1: holding people responsible for their acts, people, not institutions. Please 401 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: don't try to tell me as I've seen people within 402 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 1: the government trying to tell the American like UM. And 403 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: this this was said, um when it was determined by 404 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice that the appropriate disposition of the 405 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: HSBC case was simply a fine of one point nine 406 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: two billion UM. When someone tried to suggest that you 407 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: have to understand that these are very complicated statutes in 408 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: order to apply individual responsibility for the violation of and 409 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: this is just legal speak in my mind, um intentionally 410 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: failing to maintain an antime money laundering compliance program. Well, yea, 411 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: if you're gonna use an obscure statute like that, I 412 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: can see how you might be able to make those arguments. 413 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: But you know, the Department of Justice in n and 414 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: Congress in six gave us the opportunity to use the 415 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,360 Speaker 1: money Wondering Statute, and I don't know why it wasn't applied. 416 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: It's not very complicated. What it says is if you 417 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: know that money comes from a specified unlawful source, and 418 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 1: one of those is drug trafficking. There's a long list 419 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: of specified and unlawful activity. But if you know it 420 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: came from a specified and lawful activity and you do 421 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 1: anything to conceal in disguise the source of the funds, 422 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: guess what you just committed money lundering. It's the point 423 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: of year offense, and I believe it's a five tho 424 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: dollar fine. That's the statute that is most applicable in 425 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: these cases. And one of the problems we face is 426 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: that the way we go about working these things oftentimes 427 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: comes on the heels of regulators who are looking at 428 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 1: records three years old. Um, it's a real challenge to 429 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: be able to prove what was in the mind of 430 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: the person that carried out the transaction three years ago. 431 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: So these long term undercover operations that capture on tape 432 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: exactly what people know at the time of transactions were done. 433 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: It is a pretty darn effective tool. We don't use 434 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 1: it enough. There are a lot of other things that 435 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: we don't. I mean, I've written pieces for The New 436 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: York Times and others about how it is that I 437 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: would recommend that we really seriously think about readjusting how 438 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: we go after money wanderers. Um. But the long and 439 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: short of it is, we seem to be, as you said, 440 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: doing the same thing over and over and over again 441 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: and not being willing to open our mind into, um, 442 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: the idea of perfecting, you know, improving the approach. It 443 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: seems like right now, more than ever, we're experiencing something 444 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: of a sea change in terms of prohibition of drugs, 445 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: specifically with with marijuana. A lot of areas are moving 446 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 1: away from that decriminalizing and outright you know, legalizing. What 447 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: do you see as as the benefits and of course 448 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: the dangers of decriminalizing and even legalizing drugs, perhaps ones 449 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: that are more insidious than something like marijuana. Yeah, well, 450 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: I'm not willing to go pass the marijuana discussion on 451 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: that because I don't I don't understand a society that 452 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: would really be promoting the idea of meth ampheta mean 453 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,719 Speaker 1: heroin um UM and a lot of other even more 454 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: dangerous drugs UM out on the street. But UM, you know, 455 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: when it comes to marijuana, let's take a close look 456 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: at what's occurring UM in Washington and Colorado, in in 457 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: a few other states that have across the board legalized UM. 458 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 1: You often, oftentimes you have a limited number of licenses 459 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: for the production, and you have people coming from many 460 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: different corners to buy. And so let's not forget the 461 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 1: old adage of economics one on one from college, Supply 462 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: and demand. UM. When you have limited supply UM, your 463 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: price is going to go up. So the price that's 464 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: being offered or being charged for high end UM marijuana 465 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: is probably not probably in fact, is substantially higher than 466 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: what you can get on the black market in the 467 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: same locations because they don't have the problem of licensing 468 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: and all of all the other issues that are going on. 469 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: So in effect, we've kind of created um green zones 470 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: for the cartels. UM in the air is um. But 471 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: you know, I really do believe that if you haven't 472 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: educated and provided adequate treatment to your citizens, and now 473 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: you're going to open the floodgates and you're going to 474 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: contemplate the idea of just legalizing all kinds of illegal 475 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: drugs across the board, I don't see a pretty ending 476 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: to that whatsoever. I've been on a lot of shows 477 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: in the last several years and some professiving libertarians, and 478 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: when I say my concerns about that, I get to 479 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: come back from him, well, isn't that a good thing? 480 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: I mean, basically, these people will just all die off 481 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: and and we won't have this problem. That's not a 482 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: part of my thinking. I don't embrace that whatsoever. UM. So, 483 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: I think the problem is a little bit more complicated 484 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: than just um making it available across the board. I 485 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: think number one, we need to get into education and 486 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: treatment so that we can get the man down. And 487 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: and number two, if we're going to get into legalization, 488 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: let's try to get ourselves organized on the on the 489 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: marijuana side before we start thinking about UM. I don't 490 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: know if you you guys know anybody who's used met ampet. 491 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: I mean, but I've seen pictures of them, and I 492 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,959 Speaker 1: met I've met I've met him, because you know, when 493 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: you're a copy, you do and after about two or 494 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: three experiences, it owns them. I don't want my doctor 495 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: being a fault in that. And I don't. Of course, 496 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: one would say, well, the drugs are readily available even 497 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: though they're illegal, so you know, if they want to 498 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,479 Speaker 1: get involved in it, they can. And I understand all 499 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: those arguments, but I just can't see condoning as a 500 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: society UM on a broad basis, making really dangerous drugs 501 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: available to UM to a population on a statewide, sanctioned basis. 502 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: I just I can't do it, maybe because I was 503 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: a copto law. Robert, thank you so much for talking 504 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: with us so far. Man, it's been quite enlightening. We 505 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: really appreciate it. We are coming up at the to 506 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: the end of our time that we have with you, 507 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: and we I just want to ask you if there's 508 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: one thing that you could leave with the audience today, 509 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: what would it be. I think all of these issues 510 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: we're talking about boiled down to individual responsibility. I looked 511 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: the problems that we had out there today, uh, in 512 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: the backlash of bad conduct by a few police officers, UM, 513 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: and how we're trying to deal with it, Um, some 514 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: people try to deal with it, um indicting an entire profession. UM. 515 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that there aren't some reflections that shouldn't 516 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: be done across the board, but let's let's try to 517 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: let's try to move more toward individual responsibility. I think 518 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: that's going to help in the money ordering world. Individually 519 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: responsible people, those people who are involved in turning hundreds 520 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: of billions of dollars into legitimate businesses that corrupt governments 521 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: around the world. UM, we need to we need to 522 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: let the people know who are involved in that type 523 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: of activity that if they do that, they're going to 524 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: go to jail. They're not just gonna go to jail, 525 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: They're gonna go to jail for a real long period 526 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: of time. Until we get that were we are not 527 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: going to have a lot of people out there who 528 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: are going to be afraid to do that type of stuff. 529 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: And I think you can apply that to most of 530 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: the basic problems that we've been we've been talking about 531 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: individual responsibility and and uh and not painting with such 532 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: a broad brush um on all these issues. Well, there 533 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: you have it. That was a lot of fun. I mean, 534 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: definitely went to some pretty dark places. Um. It really 535 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: makes you wonder how all much of this is going 536 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: on at the same level, if not worse than it 537 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: was when when Maser was doing you know, his his 538 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: his operation and it It's sort of like one of 539 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: these things where you see someone making such a huge 540 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: difference in a particular time, but does it make a 541 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: huge difference long term? You know, there's just always new 542 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: ways of getting around these things. The banks are not 543 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: getting any less corrupt, you know, like he was talking 544 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: about this toothless prosecution. These banks, you know, can afford 545 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: to pay these fines. It is, as he said, the 546 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: cost of doing business. And until somehow we change the 547 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: just the foundation of this capitalist system where money is 548 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: always better than less money. You know what's good. I 549 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: don't understand you. I don't don't know what the answer is. Guys. 550 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: That it left me I want I don't hate to 551 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: say it, but it left me not not particularly hopeful. 552 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: I feel like he kind of gave us an answer there, 553 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,959 Speaker 1: and it's jail, the bankers, all the people who you 554 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: can who you can directly connect with going through these processes. 555 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 1: And you know, I gotta say, I pretty I think 556 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: I agree with him. I think that's that's where we 557 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: need to go. Also must point out that in these actions, 558 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: it's so easy to paint a broad brush and say, 559 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: you know the drug dealers or the bankers. We have 560 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 1: to remember that an organizations of this size, you know, 561 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: the people who are out there, for instance, harvesting coca leaves, 562 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: they're not living high on the hog by any means. 563 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: The people who are the tellers at the branch of 564 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: your local bank or credit union overwhelmingly have nothing to 565 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: do with this. So just because someone works at a 566 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: bank doesn't necessarily make them an international supervillain. However, at 567 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: the top, there clearly are people who are doing things 568 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 1: like HSBC did uh to pay a fine a little 569 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: less than two billion dollars after admitting money laundering to 570 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:11,240 Speaker 1: see no consequences of that action. And right now, the 571 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: illegal drug trade accounts for an estimated eight percent of 572 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: all international trade, so that's almost ten percent of all 573 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: the stuff traveling around this planet is gonna is going 574 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: to be UH into financial terms, some kind of illegal 575 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,800 Speaker 1: substance we will need to be laundered and the money 576 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: behind it will need to be laundered. So there is 577 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: a demand for this kind of business. We mentioned Bank 578 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: of America, also Western Union, JP Morgan and oddly enough, 579 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: this is a little bit of a different discussion than 580 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: we touched on in the previous episode. But oddly enough, 581 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 1: you guys, apparently banks in the US are being very 582 00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: unhelpful to UH to legalize marijuana businesses. Well, yeah, they 583 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: they've got a hand, they've got skin in the game there. 584 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: There was a quote from the film by the character 585 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: played by Benjamin Bratt Roberto Alcano Alcano where he said, 586 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: if your country didn't have my money, your economy would collapse, 587 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: which I think he may have been right, which is 588 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,959 Speaker 1: pretty scary. He was. He was one of the main 589 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: Escobar money men. And again the film we're talking about 590 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: is The Infiltrader, and we didn't really talk about that 591 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: one in this episode so much as we have the 592 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: last one in case you missed it, and it's worth 593 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: checking out. It should be coming out. Um, I believe 594 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: any Daniel Oh come on, though, we we were pretty 595 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,399 Speaker 1: clear at the beginning. If anybody's listening to the end 596 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,919 Speaker 1: of this, then surely you've already listened to episode one, 597 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: I would hope. But you know, sometimes people don't follow instructions. 598 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: That's true. That's true. I'm pretty terrible instructions. We just 599 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: sort of wing it every time. So so that is 600 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: the situation SHN as it stands today. One of the 601 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:09,920 Speaker 1: things that Mr Maser obviously has obviously sees as an 602 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: error in policy is the use of deferred prosecution right 603 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: Removing the consequences removes any incentive to obey the law. Unfortunately, 604 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 1: although I believe every person has the potential to be 605 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: amazing and astonishing and noble and moral and all all 606 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: that slow jazz, unfortunately people often only don't do horrible 607 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: things because consequences exist. In a world without consequences, or 608 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: a situation without consequences, people can turn into animals. And 609 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: it's very easy to rationalize those actions. And how fascinating 610 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: is it that corporations can't be prosecuted as though they 611 00:37:55,239 --> 00:38:00,839 Speaker 1: were individuals, but yet can give money to political campaigns 612 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 1: as if they were. It's a little counterintuitive to me. Oh, Yeah, 613 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: I definitely feel you either. And so concludes for the 614 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: moment our series on money laundering on the underground narcotics trade, 615 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,280 Speaker 1: and we have, in the course of this exploration found 616 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: so many other things that are captivating. If you haven't 617 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: seen it yet, we'd love for you to check out 618 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: our recent video on Narco Saints on the religious practices 619 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: of criminals around the world. Definitely a lot to chew 620 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: on there. Um, we really appreciate Mr Maser making the 621 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: time to talk with us, and um, I think we 622 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,279 Speaker 1: got a lot out of it, got two episodes out 623 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,319 Speaker 1: of it, which is cool. And I'm vacation next week, 624 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: so sucker, good luck man. I will see you back 625 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,320 Speaker 1: in that chair. But before you go, there's one last 626 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: thing you got to help us out with. I think 627 00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:00,319 Speaker 1: I know what that might be. Shut at Corners could do. 628 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,359 Speaker 1: First order of business. Shout out one goes to Jen Jones. Hi, guys, 629 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,399 Speaker 1: I just listened to your sleep paralysis episode and wanted 630 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: to share my own experiences. I experienced it a bit 631 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: differently than most. I have never felt like someone is 632 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,279 Speaker 1: choking me or seen any operations at the foot of 633 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 1: my bed. Very very common description of these sleep paralysis scenarios, 634 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: of which we got a metric ton of via email, 635 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,400 Speaker 1: which was great to hear people UM sharing their experience 636 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: with us. Instead, says Jen, I like completely still very 637 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: aware of where my body is, with the overwhelming feeling 638 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: that I need to wake up immediately or something is 639 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: going to get inside my body before I can return 640 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: to consciousness. Often after a bout of this, I will 641 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 1: find strange bruises and scratches, either on my wrists or ankles, 642 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: depending on which limb was closest to the edge of 643 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: my bed. Anyway, thanks for the show, and then she 644 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: asked for a shout out. So, Jen, this is a 645 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: definitely unique UM scenario with the sleep aroalysis, and I 646 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 1: find it fascinating. I have no explanation for this shout 647 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,880 Speaker 1: out to you, Jen, if indeed it is you writing 648 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 1: at our next shout out goes to Keith are also 649 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: known as the Venomous Moose. Of course, uh. Keith says, 650 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: I've been listening to your podcast The Laden have been 651 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: going through past episodes, and I listened to the does 652 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: the UK Control the US episode the day before yesterday. 653 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 1: As he writes this, so after being saddened that next month, 654 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:27,439 Speaker 1: might not really be Independence Day, sab in sarcasm. He's 655 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,720 Speaker 1: killing it with the indications here. I'm getting the tone 656 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: he says, I caught onto the city of London and 657 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 1: what that is. Imagine my surprise when reading an article 658 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 1: about Brexit that the city of London wanted to remain 659 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,720 Speaker 1: in the EU. That phrase would have slipped by the uninitiated. 660 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 1: But now I am more clued into world events because 661 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 1: of your podcast, and I am aware. Props to you, 662 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,919 Speaker 1: Mr Venomous. Well, props to you, Mr Venomous, and thanks 663 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:56,360 Speaker 1: so much for checking out the show. The UK controlling 664 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,319 Speaker 1: the US is a pretty interesting topic. The city of 665 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,840 Speaker 1: London is bizarre. I know we've mentioned before just how 666 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,359 Speaker 1: strange it is, but man, I want to visit there 667 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: are you know, there are opportunities to visit. If you're 668 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 1: the queen, you have to ask permission to go, but 669 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 1: I think we can probably just go down. Yeah, And 670 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:20,759 Speaker 1: if anybody out there, you know, wants to host a 671 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: couple of traveling podcasters, UM just hit us up on 672 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 1: conspiracy at how suffworks dot com. A couple of ragtag Yanks, 673 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 1: three ragtag Yanks, and the final shout out today goes 674 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,319 Speaker 1: to Tyler, a who says, Hey, guys, long time listener here. 675 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 1: I've been following China's island building habits in the South 676 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 1: China Sea for a for a while, and I thought, hey, 677 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 1: this topic would be interesting for you guys to do 678 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,120 Speaker 1: an episode on. There's a reason that they're building the 679 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 1: islands in the South China see. Tyler says. The islands 680 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 1: have a long history, going all the way back to 681 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,840 Speaker 1: the pot Stem Conference, and the area has been a 682 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,280 Speaker 1: hot bit of controversy since then. In most recent news, 683 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: the Haig has ruled that China has no sovereignty over 684 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: the area, but lacks resources to enforce such a controversial ruling, 685 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 1: prompting mobilization of naval forces on behalf of the US, 686 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 1: which in my eyes is pretty troubling. So that's this 687 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: is something that we touched on during the World War 688 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,840 Speaker 1: Three ways World War Three may start video when we 689 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:21,400 Speaker 1: did that, and we touched on some of that on 690 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,959 Speaker 1: audio as well, And it's a bit disconcerting to see 691 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:30,399 Speaker 1: it happening in real life, ben the way things are unfolding, right. 692 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 1: So the case that we're referring to in the u 693 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,440 Speaker 1: n or the Hague was a comes from an international 694 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,759 Speaker 1: tribunal called the Permanent Court of Arbitration. And what they did, 695 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 1: and the next big step here is they declared China's 696 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 1: historic claims in the South China Sea invalid. This was 697 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: a pretty wide ranging, clear cut ruling. The surprised a 698 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 1: lot of people who watch international affairs or especially watched 699 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: this region. The case dates back to two thousand thirteen. 700 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,840 Speaker 1: The Philippines filed the case when China grab control of 701 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: a reef called the Scarborough Shore. It's about two hundred 702 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: and twenty miles northwest of Manila, or for everybody outside 703 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: of the US, Myanmar and Namibia, it's three kilometers. So 704 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,480 Speaker 1: the thing is about a third of the world's trade 705 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: passes through the sea lanes of the South China Sea, 706 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 1: including most of China's oil imports, and the ground under 707 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,440 Speaker 1: it has vast reserves of oil and gas. But uh, 708 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,799 Speaker 1: there's a growing military presence on the Chinese side of 709 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 1: the US has two aircraft carriers in there recently, and 710 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 1: there's a live fire exercise that China's navy was recently staging. 711 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: So what we're seeing here is the idea of rule 712 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,399 Speaker 1: based international order, at least that's how the West would 713 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 1: argue it and the Chinese view of what are seeing 714 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:04,520 Speaker 1: as his store rights that trump current global laws, and 715 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: the issue of historic rights or claims to land or 716 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:17,279 Speaker 1: resources come up in repeated and tragic instances throughout world's history, right, 717 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:23,680 Speaker 1: so who actually owns the land upon which people reside? 718 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:31,680 Speaker 1: Who has a more historically legitimate claim to some piece 719 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:36,560 Speaker 1: of soil or a kilometer of ocean or river. And 720 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:44,319 Speaker 1: unfortunately this kind of stuff is rarely concluded in a 721 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:51,080 Speaker 1: civilized or mutually respectful fashion, and you can point to 722 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:56,759 Speaker 1: numerous other instances of it occurring right now in the 723 00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:01,200 Speaker 1: world in which we live. And if that precedent, uh 724 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,320 Speaker 1: for most other cases remains the same, then there's there's 725 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:10,200 Speaker 1: probably not going to be um and end to this 726 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 1: situation as ideal to all these to all the involved parties. 727 00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:21,640 Speaker 1: So the Chinese argument is that in centuries and centuries 728 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 1: in the past, Chinese seafair is discovered and named islands 729 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,360 Speaker 1: in the region, and that the country of China itself 730 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:36,600 Speaker 1: has ancestral fishing rights there. So there's also internal propaganda 731 00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:40,799 Speaker 1: going on about this. In July, State Television Company in 732 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,880 Speaker 1: China began a mini series about the experience of Chinese 733 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:49,719 Speaker 1: fishermen in the nineteen forties, enforcing coincidentally, China's view of 734 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:55,880 Speaker 1: the South China Sea. So what what these rights are 735 00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,319 Speaker 1: said to be defined by is what was called a 736 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,520 Speaker 1: nine dash line. It's still usually called that, even though 737 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,880 Speaker 1: in it became a ten dash line to bring to 738 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,240 Speaker 1: Juan into the fold. Uh. This this takes up about 739 00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:12,200 Speaker 1: it extends about fift kilometers from the southern coast of 740 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,920 Speaker 1: China and maps out all of the all of the 741 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,400 Speaker 1: sea in that area. So countries that have borders along 742 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:23,840 Speaker 1: that sea, like the Philippines or um well they're Southeast 743 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:28,720 Speaker 1: Asian countries, are of Japan as well, obviously think this 744 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:33,920 Speaker 1: is cutting into their peace of the Oceanic pie. So 745 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,600 Speaker 1: the reason they think that is because due to the 746 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,400 Speaker 1: U n Convention on the Law of the Sea, countries 747 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,160 Speaker 1: have what's called an exclusive Economic zonner EAZY that goes 748 00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,040 Speaker 1: up to two d nautical miles or again for anybody 749 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:51,720 Speaker 1: outside of the United States, Myanmar and Namibia seventy kilometers 750 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,799 Speaker 1: off their coast or around their islands. So it is 751 00:46:54,840 --> 00:47:01,160 Speaker 1: true that China has been building artificial islands to reinforce 752 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,520 Speaker 1: these claims. Anyway, we can talk about this for a while, 753 00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:10,560 Speaker 1: but the situation is clearly unsustainable and it's unfortunately not 754 00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,200 Speaker 1: a unique situation. Thanks so much for writing to us, Tyler, 755 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:15,840 Speaker 1: And if you would like to write to us, you 756 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,759 Speaker 1: can do it in the usual ways. You can do 757 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,480 Speaker 1: it via Facebook, where we are stuff they don't want 758 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,200 Speaker 1: you to know. You can do it via Twitter, where 759 00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,560 Speaker 1: we are at conspiracy stuff. We have an Instagram now 760 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,279 Speaker 1: which we've been getting a little bit of love on, 761 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,520 Speaker 1: which is lovely. We've been trying to post a little 762 00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 1: bit more and I think we might just do a 763 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,239 Speaker 1: post after we were finished recording the show. Yeah, and 764 00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:38,040 Speaker 1: so you know, we have a little caption contests and 765 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,960 Speaker 1: things like that. It's a fun way to stay in touch. Um. 766 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:42,480 Speaker 1: And if none of that does it for you, what 767 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,080 Speaker 1: what else is there? Guys? Well, first of all, you 768 00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:48,480 Speaker 1: have to say it's conspiracy stuff show people. If you're 769 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,960 Speaker 1: having a hard time finding it is conspiracy stuff, show yes. 770 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:53,480 Speaker 1: And if you don't want to do any of that stuff, 771 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,719 Speaker 1: you just want to write to us with your suggestions, 772 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,719 Speaker 1: because our best shows always begin in your brains and 773 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,239 Speaker 1: then come out through our mouths. Somehow that sounds odd, 774 00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,880 Speaker 1: but that's how it happens. You can write to us. 775 00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at how stuff works dot com, m