WEBVTT - How Curiosity Works 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.920 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.560 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:16.360 from House Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:19.119 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as always is 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:22.680 Charles W. Chuck Ryant. What did you just say? I 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:26.160 think that came through, did it, Jerry? Well, we'll find 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:28.840 out eventually. But wait a minute. Let's we got a 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:31.520 little pluggage to do here at the beginning at the onset, 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:36.840 as you know, Okay, we are making our radio debute. 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:42.199 I know on tomorrow, I know. And it is the awesome, 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:46.400 awesome w FM you out of Jersey City, and it 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.319 covers the New York metro area, and it is the 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:54.760 oldest free form radio station in the country and very 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:57.680 highly respected in one of my favorite stations because I 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:00.880 stream it online, which anyone can do. Yes, So you're 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.840 gonna be able to stream our show online or just 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:05.880 listen to it if you live in New York. Right. So, 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:09.080 um w FMU is taking a couple of old podcasts 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:11.440 and putting them together into an hour long show that 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:16.920 they're gonna air pretty cool stuff, very cool and and 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:19.600 you can hear that on If you live in New York, 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:22.720 you know FMU, but in case you don't, it's one 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:27.440 FM and in Hudson Valley nine point one, so you 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:29.960 can listen to us all over the place up there. 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:35.960 Those are total public radio. UM Mega hurts, yes, and 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:38.840 we are on Friday. I guess we need to say 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:42.520 when every Friday from seven to eight pm on w FMU. 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:44.280 You can hear us or you can stream that online 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:48.280 and your support is appreciated as always. Nice let FM 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:50.720 you know you like us. If you do, and if 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:54.640 you don't, just keep it to yourself. Nice Chuck. Thanks. 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.080 How's it going, Chuck? It's going harried and good? Is 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:02.440 that you're about to go to l A max Fun 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:06.320 Con technically Lake Arrowhead l A first for a couple 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:08.720 of days, so then Maximum Con. That's right. Yeah, I'm 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.120 excited for you. Yeah, you're going to hang out with 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:18.320 um jesse Esteemed, head of the Podcasting Division of the World, 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.680 head of Maximum Fun dot Org, in the voice of 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.840 the Sound of Young America, and Jordan jesse Go, among others. 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:28.320 To do to is a young mogul. But I think 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:30.799 my title that I just gave him, I think the 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:32.880 title I just gave him he'd prefer which is what 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:37.400 ahead of the podcasting division of the world. I didn't 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.799 even hear that. Sorry, his buddy and ours Hodgeman is 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.200 going to be there. Actually, the part of Josh Clark 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.600 at this weekend will be played by John Hodgming. That's 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.359 gonna be pretty cool, totally. You guys are doing trip together. Yeah, 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:53.320 I'm a little nervous. Oh, Chuck, you're gonna knock it 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:55.720 out of the Come on, hey, guess who's there now? 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:58.960 I do know you want me to? Yeah, Andy Rick 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:01.840 the Yes, my all time heroes. Yeah, that's gonna be 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:05.720 pretty cool. And tell him I said, I can ask 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:10.960 for some sidekick advice, dude, I'm just kidding. All right. Well, 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.839 we'll probably edit out that with anyway, So having lunch 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:17.200 tomorrow with our buddy Luke Ryan, tell him I said, 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.360 high on the Paramount Pictures lot. Do you know who's 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:26.440 losing her mind right now? Katie M, Katie M beautiful? 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:32.000 You already forgot good enough? Let's get started, shall we? Chuck? Great? Okay, Chuck, 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.240 I have a little bit of a story for you. Okay. 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:39.400 I don't remember when I was looking for it, but 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:41.000 at some point in time, it occurred to me. I 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:44.440 had no idea where the origin of the phrase curiosity 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:47.360 killed the cat came from. Right, it's written on my page. 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.080 What do you have? Oh? I don't have the origin. 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.480 I just thought, you know, well, I killed the cat, 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.480 so it couldn't be good. You wrote that down. Oh 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.160 I didn't write that down. You had a note to 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.400 remember that. I'm telling you, I went the wrong way 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:04.720 to get here to work today, so I'll handle this. Um. 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.000 I went and onto the internet with a capital eye, 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:11.440 and I found that. Um. I found that it was 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:16.120 attributed to a playwright named Ben Johnson, right, um. And 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:21.479 he wrote a play in you mean old Ben Johnson 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:25.159 that lives out Yeah, the the immortal Ben Johnson, the 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:28.760 one who just won't die. Yeah, okay, Um, his play 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.000 every Man in his humor with a you. So you 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:36.160 know he's like British. Uh. He is the quote helter skelter, 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:40.240 hang sorrow, Carol kill a cat, uptails all and a 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:43.680 loose for the hangman whatever that means. Right, but he's 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:46.280 got Carol kill a cat, meaning like worry will kill 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:48.800 a cat, which is weird because this is associated with 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:54.680 later on worry and curiosity are associated for a little while. Yeah, 0:04:54.960 --> 0:05:00.840 finally we get to eight right exactly four three hundred 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:04.400 years later, and the first Ben Johnson still around, Old 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:09.159 Ben Johnson, he's he's more secluded than ever. We finally 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:14.400 get to um the Galveston Daily News, right four hundred 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.719 years later. Isn't that weird? Three hundred years later. I 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:22.560 don't know why I can't subtract and come up with 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:27.240 the right number anyway, In the Galveston Daily News, the 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:29.520 first time it appears in print, the proverb it is 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:33.240 once said that curiosity killed the Thomas cat. They couldn't 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:35.560 just say it like the right way. But Thomas cat 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.400 is a Tom cat, like Tom and Jerry. But we've 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:42.680 had it ever since then. Did you know that I 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:44.800 had no back then they called it the Thomas cat. 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:47.440 That well, that was a new thing you just learned. 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:49.560 But the fact that I went and looked for that 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:53.320 was really no gratification whatsoever. There's nothing offered. No one 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.240 was paying me to go look it up. Is an 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:59.440 example of curiosity. True, it was also part of your 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.960 job where you get paid to do. But I know 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.039 what you mean. I don't think it worked into any 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.360 of the stuff I wrote so we're we I did 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:10.880 you You've just let the cat out of the bag? 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:16.480 That um cat? Uh that. I was asked to write 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:19.560 how Curiosity works in part because we have a TV 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.719 show coming up here in the Discovery Family eventually called 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.720 um Curiosity. It's gonna be huge when it happens. I 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.159 think it's coming out this summer, answering a lot of 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:33.839 the just really cool questions of life and beyond. And then, um, 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.320 there's a website that's already running curiosity dot com. Yeah, 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:39.960 we right for that, son too. Um, it's very cool. 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:43.000 It's worth checking out. Um. But I was asked when 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.600 all this was going on to write how Curiosity works, 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:47.560 and I was like, it's not going to be that great, 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.160 And I wrote it, researched it and wrote it, and 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:55.800 I thought this is really great worth podcasting on. Absolutely agreed, sir, 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.080 So Chuck, Um, have you ever landed an assignment like that? 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:01.720 What that you thought it wasn't gonna be great and 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.080 then you ended up being proud of it? Yes, not 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:06.200 even proud of it, is like, this is not going 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.240 to be that interesting of an assignment and it turned 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.200 out to be good. Like two longs, one heart, right, 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:16.960 right right, Wow, you really are not showing up. I'm here, 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.320 I'm right here. All right, Well, Chuck, let's talk about curiosity. Well, 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:22.400 what you pointed out, which I thought was kind of neat, 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:26.200 was that it killed the cat theoretically, so the cat 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.720 wouldn't have done well evolutionarily speaking. So that's something that 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:31.800 sort of flies in the face curiosity as a whole 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.960 sort of flies in the face of evolution. Because bring 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.120 back Tuk Talk. He's making another appearance. Back in the day. 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:40.480 Tuk Talk gets a little curious about what's in the 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.920 cave and talk Talk ends up with a slashed chest 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:48.040 from a Yeah, cave bear or the clan of the 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:51.160 cave bear. Yeah, And so tuk Tuk is not around, 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.960 he doesn't reproduce, so his his offspring won't live on 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:59.080 to be more curious. So still humans are curious beyond 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:02.720 that greed. Take that, Darwin. Yeah, and um, that's kind 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:06.280 of that's a I guess that probably forms the basis 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:10.440 of why we don't really understand curiosity because we can't 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:13.280 explain that, and we can't explain that because we don't 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:15.360 understand it, and we don't understand it because we can't 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:20.560 explain it, which is to me seems incredibly appropriate. Like, 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.880 think about it. So we need as humans, right, very 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:28.200 limited stuff. We need a certain amount of water, Um, 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.400 we need a certain amount of food, and we need shelter, 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:35.000 and then as a species, we have to reproduce. Right, Yeah, 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.719 that's it, that's all we need. We don't need your 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:43.040 modest mouse t shirts, your last chance garage hats um. Frankly, 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:47.439 your facial hair is the ted superfluous. Really, it's not necessary. 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.480 It's not really doing anything for your survival, not for 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.280 my survival. But if you look around, Chuck, I mean, like, 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.720 we've got some pretty great stuff going on that enhances 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.920 our existence that we don't need. So one of the 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:02.640 well a number of the things that we have that 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:06.160 have enhanced our existence are the result of curiosity, right, 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:11.360 like um, penicillin, Alexander Fleming, Sure right, he said what 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:16.080 exactly is growing in this petrie dish here? And investigated 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:18.640 it and found out that you could save millions and 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:21.679 billions of lives with it? Right? Yeah, I would say many, 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:24.920 if not most, of the big advancements we've made have 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:28.360 been because of an initial spark of curiosity at least. 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.640 But I would even go back to counter sir that 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.199 even like survival does in fact depending on curiosity to 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.280 a certain degree, because maybe if Tuck Tuck doesn't go 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:40.840 see what's on the other side of that mountain, he 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:45.360 doesn't find the rich fields of wildebeest to hunt and 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:49.040 his family starving. That is very, very good point, Chuck, 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.640 And I think he revealed something, um that that forms 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.800 the basis of curiosity. Um. If for some reason, say 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:59.440 he was afraid of finding out what was over the mountain, 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:04.160 he would never go. Curiosity exists in antithesis of fear. 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.800 They're actually counterproductive to one another. Yeah. I thought that 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:11.160 was a good point. Yeah, well now mine, Well you 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:13.000 got it from somewhere. No, there's a whole field of 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:17.080 research called curiosity research. There's a guy named George Lowenstein 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.240 who I quote pretty early on in the um in 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:25.000 the article basically saying like, whether you understand curiosity or not, 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.800 it just try to turn off the television set towards 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.679 the end of a close football game. Can't do it 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.319 writing there you are in the world. So what Lowenstein 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:39.280 was pointing out is that there's probably a biologic basis 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:43.840 to curiosity, and that suggests that it's a drive, right, Yeah. 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:46.319 And what I like about this, and we'll you'll see 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:50.600 consistently throughout this podcast, is that curiosity isn't one thing 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:53.400 because it's sort of esoteric, but it's also a little 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.360 like everything you mentioned in here is it's a little 0:10:56.400 --> 0:11:00.120 bit of both. I think starting with within us or 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.560 without us, is something exists inside us or something outside 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.720 acting upon us. That's that's the big question. And I 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.200 think it also it depends on the situation too, as 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:12.680 we'll see. But there there's two rival explanations as it 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:16.480 stands now for curiosity, and one is that it's within us, 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.040 and one is that it's without us. So like within 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:22.640 us as drive theory, right, you like being hungry. It's 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:27.640 exactly right. We have a hunger for um, basically superfluous information, 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.640 stuff that we don't need to survive right now, and 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.040 so we go seek it out in the form of 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.960 learning a new language or um crossword puzzles. But you 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:40.800 like the inner drive to this similarity to regular hunger 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.520 and eating and satisfying that hunger as well. Right, it's 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:46.800 this innate thing within us that we just have to satisfy. Okay, 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:50.160 that's drive theory. Then, there's another theory that says, no, 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:53.520 it's a pretty much a response like say an emotion, 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:59.839 right or pain to an external stimulus. Objects specific in 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.680 congruity is that what it's called. Well, it's it's saying 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:07.280 that that curiosity is objects specific, and it's called incongruity theory. Right. 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.960 So in congruity theory says that there is a certain 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:14.680 order that we can expect to the universe, and when 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:18.200 we notice something that is outside of that order, then 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:23.640 we are forced to investigate it. We can't resist investigating it. 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.480 But that's in reaction to something outside of us. Yeah, 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.600 but I thought everyone was like this, but it's just 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.680 not true. No, it's definitely not And one example you 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.880 use was why is that truck parked across the street 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:40.319 at two am? That big delivery truck. I would always 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:42.520 be curious about that, but I guess some people would 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:44.240 just see that and not think anything about it. Well, 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:47.880 I think with with the you're you're, it's absolutely true. 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:51.840 But there may be something that um captures your curiosity 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:55.680 or your attention that wouldn't somebody else, Or somebody might 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.400 be curious about that picture of Nikola Tesla next to 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.800 you that just don't look at it, you know, but 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:05.160 that could be because you're curiosity statiated about it. So 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.480 those are the two big rival theories, drive theory and 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.680 incongruity theory, right, And also to go a little further 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:14.480 on incongruity theory, so say, um, all of a sudden, 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:18.080 you noticed that a pencil was just kind of moving 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:22.200 slowly across the desk in front of you. At the 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:25.360 very least you would jump up and then look, But 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:30.800 there's no way you're not looking. I'm looking around right immediately. Okay, 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:34.720 So that's that's external, that's a response to the universe. 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.760 But the problem is that both of these UM theories, 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.680 uh do they have a big hole in one one 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:45.240 fills the other's big hole. So you put them together 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:50.760 and um, you've got maybe a whole unified theory of curiosity. 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:56.319 But well, yeah, I'm close. It's probably close. But so, um, 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:01.120 the big hole for UM for incongrety pny theory is, 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:05.440 you know, crossword puzzles aren't an example of disorder in 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:08.200 our universe. You know, why would somebody go out and 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.040 seek it? Drive theory? I can't think of there there 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:14.880 it's big hole. But there's there's a there's a hole 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.560 there and I can't remember it. But it's from my 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:22.880 money drive theories, the more correct of the two curious last. 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:28.840 So there's a further way to subdivide curiosity, um beyond 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:33.000 these theories, and this is slightly more um, slightly less theoretical, 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.280 and more observational. Yeah, this is why I think we 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.360 studied this in school. I remember studying this a little bit. Okay, 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.040 we'll take it away, not in depth, but because it 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.520 was high school. But state and trade those are the 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:49.880 classifications of the two types of curiosity and um they 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:54.240 describe how we engage in curious behavior. So state curiosity 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:58.120 would be the pencil moving on its own and being 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.240 curious about that. It's basically by state they mean, don't 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:05.240 they mean like circumstantial, almost situational, like there's something going 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:09.600 on right then it's it's fleeting and it could be 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:13.920 anything from like that truck or that pencil to standing 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:16.600 at a funeral and thinking about death. Yeah, but if 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:21.200 you're just thinking about death in the afterlife, that's trade curiosity, right, 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:25.520 unless you're at the funeral, yes, right, yeah, it depends 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:30.400 like um. So with with trade curiosity, remember when we 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:34.000 talked about happiness in that one audio book. Yeah. Yeah, 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.320 so I remember state versus trade. So there's state happiness 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:39.280 like winning the lottery, but you always went back to 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.600 your baseline. This applies very much so to the same 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:46.360 to curiosity as well. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Um, So 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.800 with with state curiosity, it's situational. With trade curiosity, it's 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:54.640 like your whole life, say um Ernest Becker he he 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:59.680 would have been traite curious about death. Yeah, because he 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.000 thought about it outside of funerals. He thought about it 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.680 a lot, and because it was his life's work. You 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.000 could make the you can make the case that he 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:11.120 had a depth of trade curiosity for death, which is 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:15.000 a further subcategorization of curiosity, right right, And then you 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:19.080 know the trade obviously is just you're probably born curious. 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:21.680 You have a lifelong interest just for the sake of 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:25.040 learning things. But you also um tag on here that 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.880 it is also linked to all kinds of things like 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:32.880 arson and fearlessness and experimentation with drugs, So there's a 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:36.560 downside of that. Whereas the first state curiosity is a 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.640 little more related to reward, even though they both can 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:50.600 lead to reward, like um, excitement, or a sense of stacy, assaciation, stay, statiaty, satiaty, yeah, saciousness. Um, 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:56.400 I'm curious with the correct pronunciation and I'm not um 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:59.040 with what you were saying though with with with trade 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.560 curiosity that chuck the fact you know that does have 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:05.720 a dark side to it. Um. Overall, it's generally viewed. 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:10.560 It is a very very positive thing, highly encouraged. Um, 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.400 except for this one period in the West when curiosity 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:18.359 was reviled during the Middle Ages St Augustine, Saint Augustine 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.520 and his Confessions, and I think like three nine two 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:24.560 fun Killer basically said like God has a special place 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:28.760 in hell for the curious, because um, I think that 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:31.159 was pretty much the quote don't ask you many questions? 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:36.359 Well be yeah, don't don't question things, and um it 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.600 detracts from the time that you have to think about 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.560 God and your relationship with God and how great God 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:46.080 is and um. That's so this is a very brief 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:51.000 period of time where curiosity was downplayed or denounced or whatever. Otherwise, 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:53.000 it's encouraged for the most part very much. You want 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.359 your kids to be curious, You want your parents and 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:58.760 grandparents to still be curious. You know, the whole cycle 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.840 of life thing, because I know you linked you found 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.040 one study of Alzheimer's patients who they display a very 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:09.320 low level of curiosity, and uh, that's sad. The older 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:11.480 you can keep that brain vital. We talk about a lot, 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.119 but curiosity has a lot to do with that, I think, yes, 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:21.240 And um, fear also tends to increase in Alzheimer's. Um, yeah, 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.720 they're they're negatively correlated. As one goes up, the other 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.560 goes down generally, all right, because you said that fear. Basically, 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:28.840 curiosity gets you out of your comfort zone and fear 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:33.600 keeps you in it. Right, that's exactly right the concept. So, um, 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.000 we were talking about trait curiosity and that it can 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.919 be subdivided even further. Um, those two categories are depth 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.520 and breadth. So if you're interested in a lot of 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:49.440 different things, but you're constantly something new, maybe right, Um, 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.639 that's breadth of curiosity. There's just a lot of different 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:58.160 things that appeal to you. But if you're interested in, uh, 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:04.000 the French language and you start studying it back to 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:10.480 you know, pre Roman era, right yeah. Yeah, Johnny Fuller 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.560 here with the piano, does he know the piano pretty well? Yeah? Dud. 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:16.280 He didn't just like say, learn how to play the piano. 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:20.360 He's learning like theory, and he's learning about how pianos 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.280 are constructed, and he's learning about the history of like 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.399 plucking a string and what that means to his life. 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.840 Curiosity very much a depth. So either way, that's just 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.760 great though, you know, I mean you're and I think 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.000 it depends on the mood of society. I remember when 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:41.840 you know, which is better. Like when we were in school, UM, 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.800 colleges wanted kids that were like really well rounded. They 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.399 wanted people with like a breadth of curiosity UM. And 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:52.320 nowadays they want their campus to to um have a 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:56.680 breadth of curiosity by having people with depth, deep curiosity 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:01.960 a bunch of people. No, No, like it's students. Yeah, man, 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.600 they know state universities have to make you take your 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:08.440 base courses and all. But I think all colleges should 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:10.960 really just let you take what you want to take. 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.400 Do you think they should be free? No, I don't 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:17.439 know about that. I think they should be free. I 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:18.959 mean that'd be great if they were free. I mean 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:20.640 Georgia when we went there might as well have been free. 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:23.040 It's like five hundred bucks a quarter. You know, it 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:26.320 was really cheap, but I would I would have easily 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:30.240 traded in the classes that I could still don't care 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:32.960 about now for a lot more of the ones that 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:36.560 I really enjoyed and we're interested in. It worked like 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:41.800 a charm. That's a good point, my friend. So, UM, Chuck, 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:47.359 we've covered pretty much all of the UM angles. I 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:50.480 guess all of the science of it so far. Curiosities 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:54.840 existed mostly in the realm of UM psychologists cognitive behavioralists, 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:58.680 I believe who really took up the mantle and UM 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:02.639 started investigating and I think the fifties or sixties UM, 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:07.480 and they came up with some pretty pretty cool ideas. UM. 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:09.840 But I think, really what's been settled on, and I 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:11.800 think it's probably correct. We just haven't been able to 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:14.760 fully flesh it out, is that there is some sort 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:18.240 of internal drive that makes us curious and then it 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:21.560 has to be satiated. Right yet starts, you point out, 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.320 It starts with babies. Obviously. That's how you learn simple 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:26.920 things like the stove is hot and the floor is hard, 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:31.080 and closing that door on my finger will make me 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:34.679 cry that daddy upset. That's or I will lose feeling 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:36.720 in my hand forever, like that one listener who wrote 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:41.439 in today, right yea. Um. But the the implication of 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:43.399 that is, Okay, well, there's an example of what we 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:46.200 get for being curious. We've learned about the world around us, 0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:50.480 we gain experience ent to a certain age when and beyond. Well, 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:55.680 then why doesn't curiosity just dissipate entirely, well, Josh, because 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:59.200 we want to be distracted in our brains and you can. 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:01.160 You found a cool study they did in the fifties 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:04.159 and sixties where they took people in I guess was 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:07.200 a solitary confinement. They were doing brainwashing studies. Do you 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:10.320 remember when we when we did brainwashing and like those 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.239 guys came back from Korea. Yeah, I suspect that it 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:16.760 was the same same research. Okay, so brainwash people would 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:20.639 sit around and when when nothing else is going on, 0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:23.320 they would prefer to have like an old stock report 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:25.720 read to them over and over. Yeah, the same same 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:28.760 studyame one, just to have some sort of source of stimulation, 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:32.400 mental stimulation in the face of complete sensory deprivation. Right, 0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:36.520 So that's why that's one. Um, there's and it's not 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:39.040 just humans either. Rats exhibit this kind of thing where 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:43.119 they'll start exploring mazes even though there's no expectation of food. 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:47.240 M Monkeys kept in um cages with windows that have 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:52.440 sliding covers, I guess, will open to look out, just 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:55.960 to look out. For the heck of it. They finally 0:22:56.000 --> 0:23:02.199 found what amounts to a um curious gene, right, yeah, 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:04.920 I mean after, I mean, you can get cognitive psychologists 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:06.560 to say, untill they're blue in the face, that a 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:11.240 curiosity is gonna eventually lead to your personality and identity 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:13.520 and that's great. Well that's a big one though. Let's 0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:16.560 talk about that. That's a that's a that that makes 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:19.560 just complete an utter sense to me. Right, yeah, me too. Like, 0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:24.040 if you think about it, curiosity is going out and 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:28.080 gaining experience, and a lot of our identity is the 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:31.080 experience that we've gained, the knowledge we have, the intellect 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:33.880 we have, and so it makes us interesting to other people. Right. 0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:38.359 So uh, And because curiosity is different in every single person, 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:42.240 to varying degrees to the different type, each person kind 0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:47.320 of helps mold their own identity through their own curiosity, 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:49.920 and that is why curious people are attracted to other 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:52.639