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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know

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Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as always is

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Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Ryant. What did you just say? I

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Speaker 1: think that came through, did it, Jerry? Well, we'll find

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Speaker 1: out eventually. But wait a minute. Let's we got a

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Speaker 1: little pluggage to do here at the beginning at the onset,

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Speaker 1: as you know, Okay, we are making our radio debute.

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Speaker 1: I know on tomorrow, I know. And it is the awesome,

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Speaker 1: awesome w FM you out of Jersey City, and it

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Speaker 1: covers the New York metro area, and it is the

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Speaker 1: oldest free form radio station in the country and very

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Speaker 1: highly respected in one of my favorite stations because I

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Speaker 1: stream it online, which anyone can do. Yes, So you're

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Speaker 1: gonna be able to stream our show online or just

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Speaker 1: listen to it if you live in New York. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: um w FMU is taking a couple of old podcasts

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Speaker 1: and putting them together into an hour long show that

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Speaker 1: they're gonna air pretty cool stuff, very cool and and

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Speaker 1: you can hear that on If you live in New York,

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Speaker 1: you know FMU, but in case you don't, it's one

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Speaker 1: FM and in Hudson Valley nine point one, so you

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Speaker 1: can listen to us all over the place up there.

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Speaker 1: Those are total public radio. UM Mega hurts, yes, and

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Speaker 1: we are on Friday. I guess we need to say

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Speaker 1: when every Friday from seven to eight pm on w FMU.

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Speaker 1: You can hear us or you can stream that online

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Speaker 1: and your support is appreciated as always. Nice let FM

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Speaker 1: you know you like us. If you do, and if

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Speaker 1: you don't, just keep it to yourself. Nice Chuck. Thanks.

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Speaker 1: How's it going, Chuck? It's going harried and good? Is

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Speaker 1: that you're about to go to l A max Fun

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Speaker 1: Con technically Lake Arrowhead l A first for a couple

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Speaker 1: of days, so then Maximum Con. That's right. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: excited for you. Yeah, you're going to hang out with

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Speaker 1: um jesse Esteemed, head of the Podcasting Division of the World,

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Speaker 1: head of Maximum Fun dot Org, in the voice of

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Speaker 1: the Sound of Young America, and Jordan jesse Go, among others.

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Speaker 1: To do to is a young mogul. But I think

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Speaker 1: my title that I just gave him, I think the

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Speaker 1: title I just gave him he'd prefer which is what

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Speaker 1: ahead of the podcasting division of the world. I didn't

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Speaker 1: even hear that. Sorry, his buddy and ours Hodgeman is

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Speaker 1: going to be there. Actually, the part of Josh Clark

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Speaker 1: at this weekend will be played by John Hodgming. That's

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Speaker 1: gonna be pretty cool, totally. You guys are doing trip together. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm a little nervous. Oh, Chuck, you're gonna knock it

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Speaker 1: out of the Come on, hey, guess who's there now?

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Speaker 1: I do know you want me to? Yeah, Andy Rick

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Speaker 1: the Yes, my all time heroes. Yeah, that's gonna be

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Speaker 1: pretty cool. And tell him I said, I can ask

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Speaker 1: for some sidekick advice, dude, I'm just kidding. All right. Well,

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Speaker 1: we'll probably edit out that with anyway, So having lunch

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Speaker 1: tomorrow with our buddy Luke Ryan, tell him I said,

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Speaker 1: high on the Paramount Pictures lot. Do you know who's

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Speaker 1: losing her mind right now? Katie M, Katie M beautiful?

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Speaker 1: You already forgot good enough? Let's get started, shall we? Chuck? Great? Okay, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: I have a little bit of a story for you. Okay.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember when I was looking for it, but

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Speaker 1: at some point in time, it occurred to me. I

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Speaker 1: had no idea where the origin of the phrase curiosity

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Speaker 1: killed the cat came from. Right, it's written on my page.

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Speaker 1: What do you have? Oh? I don't have the origin.

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Speaker 1: I just thought, you know, well, I killed the cat,

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Speaker 1: so it couldn't be good. You wrote that down. Oh

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Speaker 1: I didn't write that down. You had a note to

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Speaker 1: remember that. I'm telling you, I went the wrong way

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Speaker 1: to get here to work today, so I'll handle this. Um.

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Speaker 1: I went and onto the internet with a capital eye,

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Speaker 1: and I found that. Um. I found that it was

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Speaker 1: attributed to a playwright named Ben Johnson, right, um. And

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Speaker 1: he wrote a play in you mean old Ben Johnson

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Speaker 1: that lives out Yeah, the the immortal Ben Johnson, the

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Speaker 1: one who just won't die. Yeah, okay, Um, his play

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Speaker 1: every Man in his humor with a you. So you

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Speaker 1: know he's like British. Uh. He is the quote helter skelter,

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Speaker 1: hang sorrow, Carol kill a cat, uptails all and a

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Speaker 1: loose for the hangman whatever that means. Right, but he's

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Speaker 1: got Carol kill a cat, meaning like worry will kill

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Speaker 1: a cat, which is weird because this is associated with

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Speaker 1: later on worry and curiosity are associated for a little while. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: finally we get to eight right exactly four three hundred

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Speaker 1: years later, and the first Ben Johnson still around, Old

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Speaker 1: Ben Johnson, he's he's more secluded than ever. We finally

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Speaker 1: get to um the Galveston Daily News, right four hundred

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Speaker 1: years later. Isn't that weird? Three hundred years later. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why I can't subtract and come up with

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Speaker 1: the right number anyway, In the Galveston Daily News, the

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Speaker 1: first time it appears in print, the proverb it is

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Speaker 1: once said that curiosity killed the Thomas cat. They couldn't

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Speaker 1: just say it like the right way. But Thomas cat

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Speaker 1: is a Tom cat, like Tom and Jerry. But we've

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Speaker 1: had it ever since then. Did you know that I

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Speaker 1: had no back then they called it the Thomas cat.

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Speaker 1: That well, that was a new thing you just learned.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that I went and looked for that

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Speaker 1: was really no gratification whatsoever. There's nothing offered. No one

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Speaker 1: was paying me to go look it up. Is an

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Speaker 1: example of curiosity. True, it was also part of your

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Speaker 1: job where you get paid to do. But I know

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Speaker 1: what you mean. I don't think it worked into any

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Speaker 1: of the stuff I wrote so we're we I did

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Speaker 1: you You've just let the cat out of the bag?

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Speaker 1: That um cat? Uh that. I was asked to write

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Speaker 1: how Curiosity works in part because we have a TV

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Speaker 1: show coming up here in the Discovery Family eventually called

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Speaker 1: um Curiosity. It's gonna be huge when it happens. I

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Speaker 1: think it's coming out this summer, answering a lot of

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Speaker 1: the just really cool questions of life and beyond. And then, um,

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Speaker 1: there's a website that's already running curiosity dot com. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we right for that, son too. Um, it's very cool.

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Speaker 1: It's worth checking out. Um. But I was asked when

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Speaker 1: all this was going on to write how Curiosity works,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, it's not going to be that great,

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Speaker 1: And I wrote it, researched it and wrote it, and

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Speaker 1: I thought this is really great worth podcasting on. Absolutely agreed, sir,

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Speaker 1: So Chuck, Um, have you ever landed an assignment like that?

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Speaker 1: What that you thought it wasn't gonna be great and

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Speaker 1: then you ended up being proud of it? Yes, not

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Speaker 1: even proud of it, is like, this is not going

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Speaker 1: to be that interesting of an assignment and it turned

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Speaker 1: out to be good. Like two longs, one heart, right,

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Speaker 1: right right, Wow, you really are not showing up. I'm here,

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Speaker 1: I'm right here. All right, Well, Chuck, let's talk about curiosity. Well,

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Speaker 1: what you pointed out, which I thought was kind of neat,

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Speaker 1: was that it killed the cat theoretically, so the cat

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have done well evolutionarily speaking. So that's something that

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Speaker 1: sort of flies in the face curiosity as a whole

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Speaker 1: sort of flies in the face of evolution. Because bring

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Speaker 1: back Tuk Talk. He's making another appearance. Back in the day.

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Speaker 1: Tuk Talk gets a little curious about what's in the

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Speaker 1: cave and talk Talk ends up with a slashed chest

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Speaker 1: from a Yeah, cave bear or the clan of the

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Speaker 1: cave bear. Yeah, And so tuk Tuk is not around,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't reproduce, so his his offspring won't live on

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Speaker 1: to be more curious. So still humans are curious beyond

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Speaker 1: that greed. Take that, Darwin. Yeah, and um, that's kind

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Speaker 1: of that's a I guess that probably forms the basis

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Speaker 1: of why we don't really understand curiosity because we can't

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Speaker 1: explain that, and we can't explain that because we don't

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Speaker 1: understand it, and we don't understand it because we can't

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Speaker 1: explain it, which is to me seems incredibly appropriate. Like,

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Speaker 1: think about it. So we need as humans, right, very

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Speaker 1: limited stuff. We need a certain amount of water, Um,

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Speaker 1: we need a certain amount of food, and we need shelter,

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Speaker 1: and then as a species, we have to reproduce. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's it, that's all we need. We don't need your

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Speaker 1: modest mouse t shirts, your last chance garage hats um. Frankly,

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Speaker 1: your facial hair is the ted superfluous. Really, it's not necessary.

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Speaker 1: It's not really doing anything for your survival, not for

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Speaker 1: my survival. But if you look around, Chuck, I mean, like,

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Speaker 1: we've got some pretty great stuff going on that enhances

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Speaker 1: our existence that we don't need. So one of the

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Speaker 1: well a number of the things that we have that

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Speaker 1: have enhanced our existence are the result of curiosity, right,

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Speaker 1: like um, penicillin, Alexander Fleming, Sure right, he said what

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Speaker 1: exactly is growing in this petrie dish here? And investigated

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Speaker 1: it and found out that you could save millions and

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Speaker 1: billions of lives with it? Right? Yeah, I would say many,

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Speaker 1: if not most, of the big advancements we've made have

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Speaker 1: been because of an initial spark of curiosity at least.

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Speaker 1: But I would even go back to counter sir that

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Speaker 1: even like survival does in fact depending on curiosity to

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Speaker 1: a certain degree, because maybe if Tuck Tuck doesn't go

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Speaker 1: see what's on the other side of that mountain, he

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Speaker 1: doesn't find the rich fields of wildebeest to hunt and

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Speaker 1: his family starving. That is very, very good point, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: And I think he revealed something, um that that forms

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Speaker 1: the basis of curiosity. Um. If for some reason, say

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Speaker 1: he was afraid of finding out what was over the mountain,

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Speaker 1: he would never go. Curiosity exists in antithesis of fear.

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Speaker 1: They're actually counterproductive to one another. Yeah. I thought that

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Speaker 1: was a good point. Yeah, well now mine, Well you

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Speaker 1: got it from somewhere. No, there's a whole field of

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Speaker 1: research called curiosity research. There's a guy named George Lowenstein

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Speaker 1: who I quote pretty early on in the um in

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Speaker 1: the article basically saying like, whether you understand curiosity or not,

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Speaker 1: it just try to turn off the television set towards

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Speaker 1: the end of a close football game. Can't do it

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Speaker 1: writing there you are in the world. So what Lowenstein

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Speaker 1: was pointing out is that there's probably a biologic basis

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Speaker 1: to curiosity, and that suggests that it's a drive, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And what I like about this, and we'll you'll see

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Speaker 1: consistently throughout this podcast, is that curiosity isn't one thing

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Speaker 1: because it's sort of esoteric, but it's also a little

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Speaker 1: like everything you mentioned in here is it's a little

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Speaker 1: bit of both. I think starting with within us or

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Speaker 1: without us, is something exists inside us or something outside

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Speaker 1: acting upon us. That's that's the big question. And I

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Speaker 1: think it also it depends on the situation too, as

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Speaker 1: we'll see. But there there's two rival explanations as it

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Speaker 1: stands now for curiosity, and one is that it's within us,

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Speaker 1: and one is that it's without us. So like within

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Speaker 1: us as drive theory, right, you like being hungry. It's

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Speaker 1: exactly right. We have a hunger for um, basically superfluous information,

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Speaker 1: stuff that we don't need to survive right now, and

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Speaker 1: so we go seek it out in the form of

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Speaker 1: learning a new language or um crossword puzzles. But you

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Speaker 1: like the inner drive to this similarity to regular hunger

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Speaker 1: and eating and satisfying that hunger as well. Right, it's

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Speaker 1: this innate thing within us that we just have to satisfy. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's drive theory. Then, there's another theory that says, no,

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Speaker 1: it's a pretty much a response like say an emotion,

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Speaker 1: right or pain to an external stimulus. Objects specific in

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Speaker 1: congruity is that what it's called. Well, it's it's saying

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Speaker 1: that that curiosity is objects specific, and it's called incongruity theory. Right.

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Speaker 1: So in congruity theory says that there is a certain

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Speaker 1: order that we can expect to the universe, and when

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Speaker 1: we notice something that is outside of that order, then

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Speaker 1: we are forced to investigate it. We can't resist investigating it.

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Speaker 1: But that's in reaction to something outside of us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I thought everyone was like this, but it's just

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Speaker 1: not true. No, it's definitely not And one example you

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Speaker 1: use was why is that truck parked across the street

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Speaker 1: at two am? That big delivery truck. I would always

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Speaker 1: be curious about that, but I guess some people would

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Speaker 1: just see that and not think anything about it. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think with with the you're you're, it's absolutely true.

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Speaker 1: But there may be something that um captures your curiosity

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Speaker 1: or your attention that wouldn't somebody else, Or somebody might

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Speaker 1: be curious about that picture of Nikola Tesla next to

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Speaker 1: you that just don't look at it, you know, but

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Speaker 1: that could be because you're curiosity statiated about it. So

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Speaker 1: those are the two big rival theories, drive theory and

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Speaker 1: incongruity theory, right, And also to go a little further

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Speaker 1: on incongruity theory, so say, um, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: you noticed that a pencil was just kind of moving

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Speaker 1: slowly across the desk in front of you. At the

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Speaker 1: very least you would jump up and then look, But

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Speaker 1: there's no way you're not looking. I'm looking around right immediately. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So that's that's external, that's a response to the universe.

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Speaker 1: But the problem is that both of these UM theories,

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Speaker 1: uh do they have a big hole in one one

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Speaker 1: fills the other's big hole. So you put them together

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Speaker 1: and um, you've got maybe a whole unified theory of curiosity.

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Speaker 1: But well, yeah, I'm close. It's probably close. But so, um,

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Speaker 1: the big hole for UM for incongrety pny theory is,

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Speaker 1: you know, crossword puzzles aren't an example of disorder in

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Speaker 1: our universe. You know, why would somebody go out and

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Speaker 1: seek it? Drive theory? I can't think of there there

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Speaker 1: it's big hole. But there's there's a there's a hole

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Speaker 1: there and I can't remember it. But it's from my

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Speaker 1: money drive theories, the more correct of the two curious last.

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Speaker 1: So there's a further way to subdivide curiosity, um beyond

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Speaker 1: these theories, and this is slightly more um, slightly less theoretical,

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Speaker 1: and more observational. Yeah, this is why I think we

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Speaker 1: studied this in school. I remember studying this a little bit. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we'll take it away, not in depth, but because it

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Speaker 1: was high school. But state and trade those are the

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Speaker 1: classifications of the two types of curiosity and um they

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Speaker 1: describe how we engage in curious behavior. So state curiosity

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Speaker 1: would be the pencil moving on its own and being

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Speaker 1: curious about that. It's basically by state they mean, don't

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Speaker 1: they mean like circumstantial, almost situational, like there's something going

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Speaker 1: on right then it's it's fleeting and it could be

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Speaker 1: anything from like that truck or that pencil to standing

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Speaker 1: at a funeral and thinking about death. Yeah, but if

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Speaker 1: you're just thinking about death in the afterlife, that's trade curiosity, right,

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Speaker 1: unless you're at the funeral, yes, right, yeah, it depends

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Speaker 1: like um. So with with trade curiosity, remember when we

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Speaker 1: talked about happiness in that one audio book. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I remember state versus trade. So there's state happiness

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Speaker 1: like winning the lottery, but you always went back to

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Speaker 1: your baseline. This applies very much so to the same

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Speaker 1: to curiosity as well. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Um, So

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Speaker 1: with with state curiosity, it's situational. With trade curiosity, it's

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Speaker 1: like your whole life, say um Ernest Becker he he

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Speaker 1: would have been traite curious about death. Yeah, because he

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Speaker 1: thought about it outside of funerals. He thought about it

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Speaker 1: a lot, and because it was his life's work. You

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Speaker 1: could make the you can make the case that he

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Speaker 1: had a depth of trade curiosity for death, which is

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Speaker 1: a further subcategorization of curiosity, right right, And then you

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Speaker 1: know the trade obviously is just you're probably born curious.

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Speaker 1: You have a lifelong interest just for the sake of

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Speaker 1: learning things. But you also um tag on here that

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Speaker 1: it is also linked to all kinds of things like

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Speaker 1: arson and fearlessness and experimentation with drugs, So there's a

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Speaker 1: downside of that. Whereas the first state curiosity is a

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Speaker 1: little more related to reward, even though they both can

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Speaker 1: lead to reward, like um, excitement, or a sense of stacy, assaciation, stay, statiaty, satiaty, yeah, saciousness. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious with the correct pronunciation and I'm not um

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Speaker 1: with what you were saying though with with with trade

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Speaker 1: curiosity that chuck the fact you know that does have

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Speaker 1: a dark side to it. Um. Overall, it's generally viewed.

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Speaker 1: It is a very very positive thing, highly encouraged. Um,

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Speaker 1: except for this one period in the West when curiosity

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Speaker 1: was reviled during the Middle Ages St Augustine, Saint Augustine

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Speaker 1: and his Confessions, and I think like three nine two

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Speaker 1: fun Killer basically said like God has a special place

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Speaker 1: in hell for the curious, because um, I think that

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Speaker 1: was pretty much the quote don't ask you many questions?

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Speaker 1: Well be yeah, don't don't question things, and um it

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Speaker 1: detracts from the time that you have to think about

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Speaker 1: God and your relationship with God and how great God

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Speaker 1: is and um. That's so this is a very brief

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Speaker 1: period of time where curiosity was downplayed or denounced or whatever. Otherwise,

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Speaker 1: it's encouraged for the most part very much. You want

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Speaker 1: your kids to be curious, You want your parents and

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Speaker 1: grandparents to still be curious. You know, the whole cycle

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Speaker 1: of life thing, because I know you linked you found

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Speaker 1: one study of Alzheimer's patients who they display a very

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Speaker 1: low level of curiosity, and uh, that's sad. The older

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Speaker 1: you can keep that brain vital. We talk about a lot,

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Speaker 1: but curiosity has a lot to do with that, I think, yes,

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Speaker 1: And um, fear also tends to increase in Alzheimer's. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're they're negatively correlated. As one goes up, the other

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Speaker 1: goes down generally, all right, because you said that fear. Basically,

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Speaker 1: curiosity gets you out of your comfort zone and fear

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Speaker 1: keeps you in it. Right, that's exactly right the concept. So, um,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about trait curiosity and that it can

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Speaker 1: be subdivided even further. Um, those two categories are depth

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Speaker 1: and breadth. So if you're interested in a lot of

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Speaker 1: different things, but you're constantly something new, maybe right, Um,

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Speaker 1: that's breadth of curiosity. There's just a lot of different

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Speaker 1: things that appeal to you. But if you're interested in, uh,

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Speaker 1: the French language and you start studying it back to

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Speaker 1: you know, pre Roman era, right yeah. Yeah, Johnny Fuller

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Speaker 1: here with the piano, does he know the piano pretty well? Yeah? Dud.

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Speaker 1: He didn't just like say, learn how to play the piano.

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Speaker 1: He's learning like theory, and he's learning about how pianos

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Speaker 1: are constructed, and he's learning about the history of like

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Speaker 1: plucking a string and what that means to his life.

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Speaker 1: Curiosity very much a depth. So either way, that's just

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Speaker 1: great though, you know, I mean you're and I think

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Speaker 1: it depends on the mood of society. I remember when

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Speaker 1: you know, which is better. Like when we were in school, UM,

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Speaker 1: colleges wanted kids that were like really well rounded. They

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Speaker 1: wanted people with like a breadth of curiosity UM. And

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Speaker 1: nowadays they want their campus to to um have a

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Speaker 1: breadth of curiosity by having people with depth, deep curiosity

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people. No, No, like it's students. Yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: they know state universities have to make you take your

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Speaker 1: base courses and all. But I think all colleges should

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Speaker 1: really just let you take what you want to take.

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Speaker 1: Do you think they should be free? No, I don't

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Speaker 1: know about that. I think they should be free. I

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Speaker 1: mean that'd be great if they were free. I mean

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Speaker 1: Georgia when we went there might as well have been free.

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Speaker 1: It's like five hundred bucks a quarter. You know, it

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Speaker 1: was really cheap, but I would I would have easily

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Speaker 1: traded in the classes that I could still don't care

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Speaker 1: about now for a lot more of the ones that

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Speaker 1: I really enjoyed and we're interested in. It worked like

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Speaker 1: a charm. That's a good point, my friend. So, UM, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: we've covered pretty much all of the UM angles. I

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Speaker 1: guess all of the science of it so far. Curiosities

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Speaker 1: existed mostly in the realm of UM psychologists cognitive behavioralists,

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Speaker 1: I believe who really took up the mantle and UM

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Speaker 1: started investigating and I think the fifties or sixties UM,

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Speaker 1: and they came up with some pretty pretty cool ideas. UM.

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Speaker 1: But I think, really what's been settled on, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's probably correct. We just haven't been able to

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Speaker 1: fully flesh it out, is that there is some sort

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Speaker 1: of internal drive that makes us curious and then it

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Speaker 1: has to be satiated. Right yet starts, you point out,

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Speaker 1: It starts with babies. Obviously. That's how you learn simple

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Speaker 1: things like the stove is hot and the floor is hard,

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Speaker 1: and closing that door on my finger will make me

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Speaker 1: cry that daddy upset. That's or I will lose feeling

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Speaker 1: in my hand forever, like that one listener who wrote

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Speaker 1: in today, right yea. Um. But the the implication of

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Speaker 1: that is, Okay, well, there's an example of what we

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Speaker 1: get for being curious. We've learned about the world around us,

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Speaker 1: we gain experience ent to a certain age when and beyond. Well,

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Speaker 1: then why doesn't curiosity just dissipate entirely, well, Josh, because

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Speaker 1: we want to be distracted in our brains and you can.

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Speaker 1: You found a cool study they did in the fifties

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Speaker 1: and sixties where they took people in I guess was

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Speaker 1: a solitary confinement. They were doing brainwashing studies. Do you

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Speaker 1: remember when we when we did brainwashing and like those

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Speaker 1: guys came back from Korea. Yeah, I suspect that it

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Speaker 1: was the same same research. Okay, so brainwash people would

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Speaker 1: sit around and when when nothing else is going on,

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Speaker 1: they would prefer to have like an old stock report

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Speaker 1: read to them over and over. Yeah, the same same

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Speaker 1: studyame one, just to have some sort of source of stimulation,

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Speaker 1: mental stimulation in the face of complete sensory deprivation. Right,

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Speaker 1: So that's why that's one. Um, there's and it's not

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Speaker 1: just humans either. Rats exhibit this kind of thing where

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Speaker 1: they'll start exploring mazes even though there's no expectation of food.

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Speaker 1: M Monkeys kept in um cages with windows that have

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Speaker 1: sliding covers, I guess, will open to look out, just

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Speaker 1: to look out. For the heck of it. They finally

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Speaker 1: found what amounts to a um curious gene, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean after, I mean, you can get cognitive psychologists

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Speaker 1: to say, untill they're blue in the face, that a

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Speaker 1: curiosity is gonna eventually lead to your personality and identity

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Speaker 1: and that's great. Well that's a big one though. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about that. That's a that's a that that makes

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Speaker 1: just complete an utter sense to me. Right, yeah, me too. Like,

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Speaker 1: if you think about it, curiosity is going out and

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Speaker 1: gaining experience, and a lot of our identity is the

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Speaker 1: experience that we've gained, the knowledge we have, the intellect

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Speaker 1: we have, and so it makes us interesting to other people. Right.

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Speaker 1: So uh, And because curiosity is different in every single person,

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Speaker 1: to varying degrees to the different type, each person kind

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Speaker 1: of helps mold their own identity through their own curiosity,

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Speaker 1: and that is why curious people are attracted to other

401
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Speaker 1: curious people. Yeah, that was a pretty interesting study. I

402
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Speaker 1: think it was from like University of Texas in two

403
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Speaker 1: thousand four, and they found just what we said, at

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Speaker 1: high levels of trait curiosity predict how they felt about

405
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 1: one another. Right, So they they they found that people

406
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Speaker 1: who shared the same levels of trait curiosity were attracted

407
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Speaker 1: to people with the similar similar levels. But you could

408
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Speaker 1: put people who had that same level of curiosity but

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Speaker 1: had different um outlooks on life, positive or negative, right,

410
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Speaker 1: and overrode that. Right, Yeah, it was. It was a

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Speaker 1: bigger indicator of UM attractiveness. That makes sense though, because

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Speaker 1: that's kinda that's your outlook on life almost as your curiosity,

413
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Speaker 1: not positive or negative. But like, what do you want

414
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Speaker 1: to do? Do you want to sit on the couch

415
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Speaker 1: or do you want to go see what's on top

416
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Speaker 1: of that mountain? And and it doesn't matter what mood

417
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Speaker 1: you're in while we do now and the wife, the wife,

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Speaker 1: I want to I want to go over there and

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Speaker 1: te what's on top of the mountain. The husband says

420
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Speaker 1: that'd rather watch the Packers game, and the wife just

421
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Speaker 1: shoots him in the chest because she's just so tired

422
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: of that answer. Do you think how many times a year.

423
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: That happened at least four times a year. Um, So, chuck,

424
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 1: we were on the gene though, right, yeah, back back

425
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: you were saying, like, I think what you were saying

426
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: was cognitive psychologists are talking about the symptom of the

427
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,479
Speaker 1: action of a gene, right, yeah, which you can study

428
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: like correlatively, core, correlatively. I'm curious, but when when if

429
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 1: you want to talk to the brain and science, they've

430
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 1: pinpointed a gene, the d r D four gene, as

431
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 1: being responsible for creating dopamine in the curious is that right?

432
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: And in the curious great tit songbird um, which are

433
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 1: known to be fairly curious birds, right with the silly

434
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: silly name um. And they yeah, they found that by

435
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: enhancing and repressing the expression of this gene um, the

436
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: birds became more or less um curious, like exploring different

437
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: parts of their cages, billing nests and strange places. It's

438
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: very sad science, but it's it's science nonetheless, right, right,

439
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 1: But the same thing happens in humans. Dopamine is our

440
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: reward center, and so we get flooded with dopamine just

441
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: like we would when we get a reward for Yeah,

442
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: like a big fat steak or a big vegan, a

443
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: crunch ball so delicious. I'm off the vegan crunch falls

444
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: these days. But you get rewarded with dopamine that way,

445
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 1: So curiosity is reinforced through those reward centers. Well that's

446
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: like scientifically, Boom goes to dynamite right there, right, because

447
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: anytime dopamine is present, it means that you're hardwired to

448
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: do that thing. That's that's how we learn to repeat

449
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: behavior the release of dopamine, and we say, oh, this

450
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: feels good, I'm gonna do it again. Oh I like this,

451
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it again, or you know, low fat milk,

452
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: or I'm gonna go set this building on fire because

453
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: it it felt really good and I'm curious, right, or

454
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: volunteer to take part in hands across America? The same thing. Yeah,

455
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: virtually on the on the cellular level, it's the same

456
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: exact thing. Setting fires are taking part in in hands

457
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: across America is the same thing. We're just a big

458
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: bag of jeans and cells, right. But in humans, um,

459
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: I don't believe it's the same in the great songbird.

460
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: But in humans, a little part of our hippocampus called

461
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: the dentate gyrus appears to be implicated as the big

462
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 1: curiosity region. Right, It accepts dopamine. Right, is a form

463
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: of payment. Yes, and the hip this this region of

464
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: the hippocampus, and the hippocampus itself. One of its functions,

465
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: as we talked about, I think in the Memory podcast,

466
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 1: is to differentiate between already experienced and novel situations. Because

467
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: if we couldn't differentiate, then hey, it's good to meet you.

468
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: Every single time, we would just do the same podcast

469
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: over and over again, and everybody would keep listening to

470
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: the same podcast over and over again, and it just

471
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: be just just thrilling every time. Good, let's do let's

472
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: get stuck on the Muppets loop and just do that

473
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: would be a good one. I could do that one.

474
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: I could do twinkies every single time. All right, Well,

475
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: I guess we'll just do We should probably agree on

476
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: one right now, which one? Mm hmm, sorry, let's put

477
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: it together. You're good, Yes, it is your curiosity satiated. Yeah,

478
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess we should anecdotally just say or

479
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: I will say that I'm I've always been a very

480
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: curious person, so I have I have a I was

481
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: born with it. I have a breadth and a depth

482
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: depending on what my main interest is. And so I've

483
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: I've always been pretty curious, I have to. Um. I

484
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: would say though, that there's always been a healthy mix

485
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: of fear and curiosity. I would say it's fairly close

486
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: to balanced. And um, yeah, I don't have enough fear

487
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: in my life. I don't think I ever have. Really. Yeah,

488
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: well not not a lot of bad things have happened

489
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: to you. That's what you think, Chuck Bryant, mysterious, mysterious man.

490
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: So you're good, I'm good. All right. Well, if you

491
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: want to learn more about curiosity, brother sister, we get

492
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: a whole site for you. It's called curiosity dot com.

493
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: We're totally shilling for it at this moment, but not

494
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: because we have to. It is very cool site. Yeah,

495
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: we didn't even get asked, dude, this watch. They're gonna

496
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: ask us to do this in a few weeks. We're

497
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: gonna say done, done and done, and they'll be like, oh,

498
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: can you re record that intro exactly? Yeah. Um. So

499
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: that's curiosity dot com, which is a sister site of

500
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: our beloved and esteemed How Stuff Works dot com, right,

501
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: which is where you can find how curiosity works. Um

502
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: and uh. Since I said how stuff works dot Com

503
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: and in there is implied the word handy search bar,

504
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: that means it's time for listener mail. That's right, Josh,

505
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: and quickly before listener mail, I personally want to issue

506
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: a an apology to those of you that took offense

507
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: when I said Wally and disco. I too for people

508
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: who have the condition. Um yeah, with a lazy eye.

509
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: I have a friend with a lazy eye. He always

510
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: called it a disco. I I always thought it was

511
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: hysterical when he did so. He thought it was funny.

512
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: We all laugh. Uh not everyone thinks those things are funny.

513
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: And I was pretty insensitive when I just threw those

514
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: words out there, because it is a condition a lot

515
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: of people feel really bad about. So good for you, Chuck.

516
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: I want to just apologize for saving it. That was

517
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: very grown up, but it's not what we're about here.

518
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: And if you want to know how I feel about strabis,

519
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: miss type in strabismus and blogs and how stuff works

520
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: dot Com into the search engine your favorite search engine,

521
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: and it will bring up a blog post time all right,

522
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: unwardly with a little cross eyed Asian girl ron Ward.

523
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: Enough Forard. This is I'm gonna call this for a

524
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: good cause from Kristen. We got a lot of those

525
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: back a few months ago when we talked about your

526
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: good cause thing and um, well when we called for

527
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: hey if you got a good calls And this is

528
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: one that's I've been meaning to read for a while. Hi, guys,

529
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: and Jerry just finished to the one on cults. Who

530
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: is the leader? Uh? And at the end Josh called

531
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: for people to write in with projects that will better humanity.

532
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: I think I have a good one. I have the

533
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: great fortune of working for a credible international humanitarian organization

534
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: called World Bicycle Relief. Check us out at www dot

535
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: world Bicycle Relief dot org. I live and working until

536
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: our check clears, all right. I live and work in Zambia,

537
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: in Southern Africa, and we build bicycles that we give

538
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: to folks in need. Pretty simple. It's great. We are

539
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: currently doing a distribution of fifty tho bicycles over the

540
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: next three years. That's ten tho bicycle wheels. That's right.

541
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: What oh man? This They were given out unit cycles

542
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: and just go ahead, sorry to the Ministry of Education

543
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: to help students and features access school. One of the

544
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: things I think is super cool is it is u

545
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: s of our bikes go to children, girl, children, females

546
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: being disadvantaged and often left out of education, and developing

547
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: countries like in Guatemala, they're getting them too, girls because

548
00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: they give the bike to the boy in the family

549
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: so he can get educated. That's that's as old as

550
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: the hills. That's right. Our projects, the bike, our project

551
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: is actively increasing attendance of all children at Zambiane schools.

552
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: I love my job. It's bettering humanity, promoting education, providing

553
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: access to healthcare, and assisting with financial stability. Plus it's

554
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: exercise is good for you. That's right. She encourages to

555
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: visit Zambia. She said's pretty awesome. Sweet and she's been

556
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: there for four years ago listening to us since then,

557
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: and ours is one of her favorites. We'll take it definitely.

558
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: That is Christen t World Bicycle Relief dot Org. That's great,

559
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: Thank you, Christen. We appreciate that. Well, if you have

560
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: something you've always been curious about, and not something stupid,

561
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: but something like cool that we could possibly answer, we

562
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: want to know, don't be stupid. I'm curious how the

563
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: thermist words? How does it know hot or cold? Also,

564
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: if you uh, that's not stupid, I just can't answer that. UM.

565
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: In installation, it doesn't matter if it's hotter cold. We

566
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: just installate. Oh, thermist, I thought you might a thermometer. Gotcha.

567
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: So if you have something you're curious about, tell us

568
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: we want to know, UM, and we'll try to figure

569
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: it out. And if you have a podcast that if

570
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: we had to podcast the same podcast over and over

571
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: and over again, what would it be. We want to

572
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: know whether we record it or not. Maybe it'll bring

573
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: up a good idea. UM. Send those two stuff podcasts

574
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. Be sure to check

575
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join

576
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most promising

577
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow, brought to you by the

578
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you