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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious ex M Triumph

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Speaker 1: Channel one. Thirty two thirty nine days. That's how long

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Speaker 1: law enforcement, family and friends have been looking for Tad

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Speaker 1: Cummins and his kidnap victim. It all started when Cummins,

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Speaker 1: a fifty year old teacher in Tennessee, was seen by

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Speaker 1: another student kissing the fifteen year old girl. The student

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Speaker 1: reported that, and Cummins was later suspended and soon disappeared

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Speaker 1: with his victim. Jil Cummings tells Inside Edition that when

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Speaker 1: her husband Tad called her from a California jail, he

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Speaker 1: confirmed her worst fear, admitting that he slept with the

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Speaker 1: team as they evaded police for more than a month.

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Speaker 1: Tad called me from jail. But what was the first

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Speaker 1: thing you said to your husband? How could this happen?

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Speaker 1: When you know, why would you do this to us?

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Speaker 1: Why wouldn't you abandon me? Why would you leave with her?

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Speaker 1: And he kept saying all of you, and I said,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I'm not going to say that back.

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Speaker 1: Just imagine if you take your daughter to school or

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Speaker 1: you're a little boy boy, but in this case, your

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Speaker 1: daughter and drop her off, everything is fine, no problem.

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Speaker 1: Then at three o'clock. You're busy working, and you assume

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Speaker 1: everything is on track. That evening you realize she never

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Speaker 1: came home. I Nancy Grace, this is crime stories, and

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Speaker 1: that is exactly what happened in the case of a

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Speaker 1: young girl who goes missing, only to discover her own teacher,

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Speaker 1: Tad Cummins out of Columbia, Tennessee, has fled the jurisdiction

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Speaker 1: with your little girl. Not only that, you find out

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Speaker 1: there have been red flags for some times that a

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Speaker 1: storm has been brewing right there in the local public

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Speaker 1: school that apparently everybody knew about, including teachers and principles,

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Speaker 1: except you. This teacher, who is married with children and grandchildren,

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Speaker 1: is on the run with your little girl. And lo

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Speaker 1: and behold where do they turn up? On the other

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Speaker 1: side of the country, the other side of the country,

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Speaker 1: at the very end of the northwest, in a commune,

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Speaker 1: living on a filthy mattress where the people living in

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Speaker 1: the commune downstairs can barely stand the loud sounds of

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Speaker 1: let me just say, um, statutory sex assault going on upstairs.

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Speaker 1: Your daughter, your child will Thank God, she's alive. She's

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Speaker 1: brought home. Finally, just on the cusp of Tad Cummins

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Speaker 1: actually renting a boat and crossing the water with the

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Speaker 1: little girl to get to a safe place out of

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Speaker 1: the U. S. Jurisdiction. That was the plan. They had

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Speaker 1: even tested a water craft. With very little time to spare,

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth is brought home. Tad Commings arrested, his wife files

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Speaker 1: for a divorce finally, but now he wants out of jail.

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Speaker 1: He hasn't even been tried yet and he is trying

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Speaker 1: to beg his way out of jail on bond. Joining

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Speaker 1: me right now is Memphis reporter Shane Dieter. Shane, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for being with us. What's the very

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Speaker 1: latest on Tad Cummings. I had to spit his name out.

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Speaker 1: Tad Cummings. His trial is scheduled for January second. However,

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Speaker 1: his attorney has asked for a continuance. He is going

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Speaker 1: through discovery and says, you hadn't enough time. He hasn't

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Speaker 1: had enough time. Hold on just a moment to Alan

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Speaker 1: Duke joining me from l A not enough time? Hold on?

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Speaker 1: When When was when was Elizabeth? This little girl? When

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Speaker 1: was she kidnapped? To start with? When did that happen?

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Speaker 1: This was in March of seventeen, but let me count, okay.

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Speaker 1: March April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November. Nine months.

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Speaker 1: He should have known the moment he left with Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: that he was going to get caught. So in my mind,

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Speaker 1: he's had nine months to figure out what he's gonna

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Speaker 1: say back back to you, Shane Memphis reporter joining us

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Speaker 1: Shane hold On. So he wants to get out of jail.

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Speaker 1: Oh h E double L no. Okay, And Shane, as

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Speaker 1: you know, you've known me for a long time. I've

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Speaker 1: given up cursing because of the twins, and it hurts

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Speaker 1: now I have to spell things. It takes a really

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Speaker 1: long time. I've said one curse word one since I

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Speaker 1: gave up cursing. And Lucy heard me. She was three

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Speaker 1: rooms away. She heard me. She's just looking at me

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Speaker 1: when I came in and wait, what my love his mommy,

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Speaker 1: I heard what you said. I'd let what so busted? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So anyway, I can't get away with anything back to you, Shane,

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Speaker 1: he wants out on bond. That'll be a cold day

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Speaker 1: in double H. Let me, I'm getting reversed. A cold

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Speaker 1: day in h E L L Okay, I got it.

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Speaker 1: I'm not used to spelling my curse words yet. So

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Speaker 1: what else does he want and why does he think

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Speaker 1: he should be out on bond? Nancy? He says he's

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Speaker 1: not a flight risk? Or well, stop, I'm sorry to

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Speaker 1: keep interrupting you. Shane. Wait wait, wait, wait was funny?

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute? Hold on, Alan? Where did we find him?

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Speaker 1: Hold up in a commune of free love or people

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Speaker 1: walk around naked? Where was he? It was in a

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Speaker 1: commune in a very remote area of northern California. This

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Speaker 1: guy allegedly bought a canoe at Walmart it or somewhere

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Speaker 1: to row across from San Diego into Mexico. So he's

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Speaker 1: not a flight risk. Okay, Shane Deeter, you were saying,

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Speaker 1: what about being a flight risk? And this is after

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Speaker 1: he outsmarted the cops and the FBI. The FBI was

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Speaker 1: on it because it was across state line, so no

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Speaker 1: one state had jurisdiction. So he tricks everybody, but Shane Deeter.

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Speaker 1: Uh Memphis reporter joining me, Shane, didn't some video surveillance

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Speaker 1: turn up of him. They were like a burger king

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Speaker 1: or something. It may have been a Walmart in Oklahoma

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Speaker 1: City and that was the first time that they'd been seen.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, you're right, you're right. I think the Burger

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Speaker 1: King turned out not to be them, or the whatever

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Speaker 1: fast food place. Oh yeah, that the Walmart was where

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Speaker 1: he was dying, buying here a die to change their appearance.

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Speaker 1: So he goes all the way from where to where Shane.

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Speaker 1: He goes from south to Nashville, all the way to

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma's city, which is gosh Nanto. That's probably about seven

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Speaker 1: hours right down the interstate I forty in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the country. And of course I don't know if

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Speaker 1: they stopped at any flop houses or live in motels.

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Speaker 1: I hate to even think what happened there. But they

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Speaker 1: end up at a free love commune. And I'm referring

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Speaker 1: to that ephemistically where you can walk around without your

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Speaker 1: clothes on. Even the people in the commune, we're uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: with Tad Commins. They kicked him out, isn't that what happened? Now?

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Speaker 1: And they the people who want quote free love. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of different words for that, but free love,

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Speaker 1: I'll go with their term. Even they were disgusted with

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Speaker 1: Tad Cummings and this young girl, and they kicked him

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Speaker 1: out of their commune. That okay, that's bad, Alan, when

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Speaker 1: you get kicked out of a free love commune for

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Speaker 1: being with a young girl. There was a young man

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Speaker 1: who ironically was from Tennessee who was there, and he

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Speaker 1: dealt with them and befriended them and was nice to

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Speaker 1: them and gave them things. But he finally realized it

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Speaker 1: was so creepy and realized who they were that he

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Speaker 1: called the cops and that's how they got caught. Creepy,

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Speaker 1: you know what, no offense, Alan, But you're saying a

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Speaker 1: little bit like Harvey Weinstein's camp creepy. It's a crime.

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Speaker 1: It's not just creepy, it's a crime. Girls at that

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Speaker 1: age cannot consent to. Let me just say, since since

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Speaker 1: anybody could be listening, this is our Christmas Bright a

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Speaker 1: cardinal relationship period Bam. End of story, Nancy, As we

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Speaker 1: review the story of Tad Cummins and Elizabeth Thomas, let's

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Speaker 1: start with what the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation told us

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Speaker 1: in that first week after the teenager disappeared with our teacher. Thomas,

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Speaker 1: fifteen years old, disappeared on Monday, March thirteenth, and is

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Speaker 1: believed to have been kidnapped by fifty year old Tad Cummings,

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Speaker 1: a former teacher at her school in Murray County, Tennessee.

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Speaker 1: On Tuesday, the school district in Murray County terminated Cummins

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Speaker 1: in the wake of an ongoing criminal investigation into alleged

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Speaker 1: inappropriate contact he had with Thomas at the school earlier

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Speaker 1: this year. Cummins as a white male, six foot tall,

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Speaker 1: weighing approximately two d pounds in his brown hair and eyes.

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Speaker 1: He is believed to be armed with two handguns, as

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Speaker 1: you know, and believed to be driving a silver Nissan

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Speaker 1: Rogue with Tennessee tag nine seven six z p T

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Speaker 1: Warrants have been issued for Cummins, charging him with sexual

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Speaker 1: contact with a minor as well as aggravated kidnapping. On Friday,

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Speaker 1: as you know, the tb I added Cummins to its

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Speaker 1: top ten most wanted list here in the state of Tennessee.

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Speaker 1: There's currently a one thousand dollar reward for information leading

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Speaker 1: to his capture. You know, part of our investigation right

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Speaker 1: now is trying to determine how we got to this point,

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Speaker 1: and we've previously disclosed that Cummins had a troubling pattern

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Speaker 1: of behavior and increasingly everything that we're learning about him

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Speaker 1: does nothing to calm our fears and our concerns for her.

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Speaker 1: She is definitely a victim. She may not realize that

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Speaker 1: she's a victim, but she is certainly a victim. She

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Speaker 1: needs help, She needs our best efforts, and she needs

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Speaker 1: the attention of this country to be on the lookout

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Speaker 1: for her. Her home situation, as you've heard from other folks,

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Speaker 1: may not be the best, but her family loves her.

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Speaker 1: Her brothers and sisters love her, her dad loves her,

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Speaker 1: her mom loves her. I'm sure her community loves her.

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Speaker 1: They want her home, and we want her home as well.

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Speaker 1: Our message to Elizabeth is we're still coming for you.

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Speaker 1: We're going to do everything in our possibility, everything in

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Speaker 1: our capabilities to bring you home your family. Once you

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Speaker 1: hear your friends want you here. To Tad, we would

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Speaker 1: say the same thing his wife said on Friday. You

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Speaker 1: have an opportunity here to do the right thing. This

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Speaker 1: is not who you are. This is not who your

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Speaker 1: church knows you to be, This is not who your

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Speaker 1: family knows you to be, this is not who your

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Speaker 1: grandkids know you to be. Do the right thing. Give

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Speaker 1: her up, turn yourself in bring her home. I want

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Speaker 1: to get to all of his lies, Shane. I hope

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Speaker 1: you're sitting down. Can we start with him telling his class,

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Speaker 1: his children at school that he's a c I. A

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Speaker 1: Operative and that he has a safe house. And I

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Speaker 1: think it was Costa Rica when things got too quote

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Speaker 1: hot in the US for him. Hold, I'm gonna have

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Speaker 1: to get a soda. I've sworn them off, but I

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Speaker 1: feel sick to my stomach right now. A c I

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Speaker 1: A Operative help me, Shane. You know, Nancy, that's one

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Speaker 1: of the things that seems people who live in a

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Speaker 1: fantasy land. They come up with that, and if you

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Speaker 1: try to ask them something, they'll tell you it's classified,

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Speaker 1: and it's you know, how are you going to figure

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Speaker 1: it out? District Attorney Brent Cooper was our guest on

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Speaker 1: several shows as the story unfolded last spring. He talked

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Speaker 1: about Tad's crazy lies, put other stories that he was

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Speaker 1: former FB owners, former CIA, and that he had millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars stashed away. And I think he even told

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Speaker 1: some kids that he had properties in different countries and

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Speaker 1: and mansions and things like that. It's just to men

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Speaker 1: of the stories grows constantly, apparently, or did while he

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Speaker 1: was well, he was teaching. So what other lies did

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Speaker 1: he tell? Alan Duke? There's so many, poor wife. Ted

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Speaker 1: Cummins claimed to be a great songwriter and singer. I

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Speaker 1: remember the song that, that weird, strange song that he

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Speaker 1: sang to another teenage girl at the school Destiny Parish.

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Speaker 1: She recorded it, only later realizing just how pervy those

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Speaker 1: lyrics were coming from a fifty year old teacher to

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Speaker 1: a fifteen year old student. Well, Destiny joined us on

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Speaker 1: a crime story episode to share her story. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's hear that right now. Let's hear that right now.

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Speaker 1: How did it come about that he sang a love

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Speaker 1: song to you? Um? I was, um a piano player

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Speaker 1: back in the day. I don't play too much anymore.

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Speaker 1: And I had learned a new song and I was

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Speaker 1: going to show it to him because you know, like

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Speaker 1: I said, he was a good friend and I was

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Speaker 1: really impressed with myself for learning it. So I took him.

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Speaker 1: We went to the music room, um, which is you know,

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Speaker 1: right next to his class Um, And it was after school,

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Speaker 1: and um, he had sat down first, and he you know,

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Speaker 1: started playing, and you know, I just kind of listened. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: I didn follow after he did. You know, we were

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Speaker 1: kind of done after that. But he started singing that,

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Speaker 1: and like I had said, about halfway through the show,

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Speaker 1: I started recording because I thought he was doing good.

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Speaker 1: I didn't notice the lyrics at first, but I really,

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Speaker 1: you know, I can't sing and play the piano, you know.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was a pretty cool thing could be

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Speaker 1: able to do because I was definitely, you know, quite

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Speaker 1: a bit behind and skill set back then the actions

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Speaker 1: inside reach? Did he say he made up the song?

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Speaker 1: He wrote the song? He didn't, um, He never said

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Speaker 1: anything about it. Um. But I tried looking up lyrics

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Speaker 1: and could never find the same song online anywhere, and

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Speaker 1: he similar lyrics anything like that, So I assumed that

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Speaker 1: he did. I could swim for a thousand miles in

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Speaker 1: the oceans inside your eyes and never reached the side. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: you're the kind of woman a man can love for

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Speaker 1: the rest of his life. And I don't know why

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Speaker 1: I feel it's your eyes. Oh your eyes? Is that

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Speaker 1: ringing availed destiny? Yeah? Yeah, for sure. So you're in

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Speaker 1: the music room, where are you sitting? And where is

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Speaker 1: he sitting? Uh? He sat on the bench you know,

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Speaker 1: on in front of the piano, and I just stood

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Speaker 1: behind him. I didn't, you know, sit next to him, because,

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Speaker 1: like I said, we were closed, but we did never

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Speaker 1: like no physical contact really, so I wasn't super comfortable

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Speaker 1: and I was really shy. After he sings the song

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Speaker 1: with those lyrics, what did he say? Um, not too much.

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Speaker 1: About halfway through, Um, some of the drama kids from

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Speaker 1: the drama club at school work right across the hall

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Speaker 1: and they had heard the piano and you know, somebody singing,

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Speaker 1: so they came in to check it out. And that

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Speaker 1: was the end of the audio clip, was people coming

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Speaker 1: in and you know, saying how surprised of or how

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Speaker 1: good he was all that stuff. So he didn't we

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Speaker 1: weren't alone at that point. Yeah, there's nothing like ruining,

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Speaker 1: ruining a romantic moment with a underaged minor, then a

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Speaker 1: bunch of students coming into the class to just burst

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Speaker 1: that bubble. We you were listening to him sing, Do

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Speaker 1: you recall what you were thinking or feeling? Like I said,

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Speaker 1: I didn't think anything of it. I didn't really notice

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Speaker 1: the lyrics too much. Um. I was just kind of

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Speaker 1: they're observing at all? And it was after I you know,

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Speaker 1: got home and listened to it again and played it

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Speaker 1: for you know, a friend of mine that I realized

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Speaker 1: what was actually being said. And even then, like I said,

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Speaker 1: it didn't hit me because he wasn't ever inappropriate. He

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Speaker 1: was always I mean, yeah, there were some things that

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Speaker 1: sent up red flags now, but I didn't ever think

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Speaker 1: that any of this would ever happen. For sure, when

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Speaker 1: you say things send up red flags now, like what,

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Speaker 1: well the song for sure. I want to pause and

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Speaker 1: Link a k C dot com code Nancy. Thank you

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00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,879
Speaker 1: for being her partner today. You know there was a

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Speaker 1: method to his madness. Shane Dieter because I mean, here

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Speaker 1: it is in your back porch, Shane, it's your neck

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Speaker 1: of the woods. But that day they didn't even have school.

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Speaker 1: That's how he pulled it off. They got a whole

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Speaker 1: I guess eight or nine hours head start because they

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Speaker 1: didn't have school that day. It was like a teacher's

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Speaker 1: conference or something like that. And the dad didn't know it.

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Speaker 1: You know, she had spent the night with a friend

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Speaker 1: and the friend took her two gas station and Tad

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Speaker 1: Cummins had taking his wife, Jill's car, taking her car.

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Speaker 1: He had a gas and ready to go, and you

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Speaker 1: can see her walk and get into the car on

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Speaker 1: security footage. In the whole time, the dad thought his

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Speaker 1: daughter had gone to school. He did not realize it

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Speaker 1: was a day off. That's why I'll know the twins

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Speaker 1: can't drive. I check it every night to just make

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Speaker 1: sure there's school tomorrow. Let's go back to another one

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Speaker 1: of your interviews with the district Attorney Brent Cooper, talking

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Speaker 1: about the morning that Elizabeth walked out of the Shawnees

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Speaker 1: restaurant and stepped into Tad Cummins car for a ride

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Speaker 1: that ended. More than a month later. In northern California,

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Speaker 1: the most concerning thing is that apparently, uh, Elizabeth told

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Speaker 1: one of her siblings that day, either the day before

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Speaker 1: or that morning, told them, if I'm not back by

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Speaker 1: six o'clock tonight. We've heard it. Either she either said

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Speaker 1: call the police or come looking for me. I read

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Speaker 1: that the seventeen year old sister Sarah that. Now, see,

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Speaker 1: she makes me think that she did not plan to

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Speaker 1: be away. I mean, we're any of her clothes missing

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Speaker 1: from the home to so she had packed a bag. Now,

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Speaker 1: she did take clothes with her, so that kind of

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00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:26,199
Speaker 1: contradicts that. But we do believe she told her sister that,

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Speaker 1: so she may have. She may have been on the

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Speaker 1: fence about about going with Mr Cummings and didn't she

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Speaker 1: spending a little friend That could have explained why some

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Speaker 1: of her clothes were gone. Well, that's true, but I think, uh,

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Speaker 1: I think she had more than one bag of clothes,

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Speaker 1: if I if I remember correctly. So that's interesting because

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Speaker 1: in that picture that Surmillan's picture of her, she only

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Speaker 1: has one on ful of stuff. Uh. Well, I think

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Speaker 1: for some reason, I believe they said she left one

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Speaker 1: bag at Shawney's where she met him. So uh, it's

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Speaker 1: really uh you know, my fear, my biggest fear is

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Speaker 1: that she had changed her mind about going with Mr

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Speaker 1: Cummins and that she expressed that to him and he

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Speaker 1: took her then forcefully. Yeah, it was definitely planned out

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Speaker 1: to where, Um, they had a several hour head start

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Speaker 1: before before anyone realized they were they were missing. Why

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Speaker 1: did you say that? Because he had he was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be going to a job interview that morning, and

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Speaker 1: of course, uh, she Uh, she had a friend drop

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Speaker 1: her off around eight thirty am Monday. Uh. I think

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Speaker 1: the last time his wife saw him was before eight

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Speaker 1: o'clock that morning, and uh, she believed he would be

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Speaker 1: going to a job interview that day, and uh, you

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Speaker 1: know it wasn't until um, well, I don't think the

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00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,879
Speaker 1: I don't think Uh Elizabeth's mother, our parents, our father,

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00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, reported her missing until either late that night

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Speaker 1: or early the next morning. Uh. And then it wasn't

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Speaker 1: until eight o'clock or so the next day, So almost

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours after uh they met up, before we

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Speaker 1: knew that Mr Cummins was also missing. What did he do?

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Speaker 1: You believe he really had a job interview or does

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Speaker 1: he just tell his wife that Oh no, he didn't.

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Speaker 1: It was it was completely made up. Man, What do

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Speaker 1: you think about all this story he reportedly told Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: about being a c I, a operative and a millionaire

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Speaker 1: and a white belt in karate for Pete's sake? Oh no,

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00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: and apparently he had. Uh he tells all of his

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Speaker 1: students those those stories. And uh. Uh is the impression

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Speaker 1: and I've gotten is that he's really created a an

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Speaker 1: alternate persona for the students he has, and of this

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Speaker 1: life that he never led with the CIA and the

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00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 1: FBI and and things like that, and and all that

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00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: goes into, uh, the the mental coercion who was using

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Speaker 1: on her. You know, this is a a fifty year

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Speaker 1: old authority figure in this girl's life, a fifteen year

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00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 1: old girl that's that's looks like she's had a pretty

381
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,640
Speaker 1: rough upbringing. And uh and he's telling her all these

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00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 1: wild tales about himself and really building him so building

383
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 1: himself up to be something he's not. And we believe

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00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: that all of that went into the persuasion to convince

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00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: her to to leave with him. You know that really

386
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 1: is even scarier now that I'm hearing that, because this

387
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: guy can flat out tell a lie. Look, you right

388
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: in the face. It stone cold lie to you. So

389
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: that's going to help him alluding police. You mentioned that

390
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 1: Elizabeth had had a very difficult upbringing. I've read about

391
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,120
Speaker 1: the alleged charges against her mother and they sounded awful.

392
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: And uh, those charges are you know, my office is

393
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: is prosecuting those charges and and um, you know they're

394
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: still pending at this time, so I can't talk a

395
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 1: lot about them. But you know, the allegations are they

396
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: sound terrible. The allegations do. And and you know as

397
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,360
Speaker 1: well as I do, that before abuse has ever reported,

398
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: it usually it's been going on for for quite a while.

399
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: According to statistics, every time an incident in child abuse

400
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 1: is reported, it has happened statistically dozens and dozens of

401
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: times before. So I can't think that because there are

402
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: no other claims against her that we know of other

403
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: than these, and they haven't been proven yet. But according

404
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 1: to the numbers child that he has happened in anyhow

405
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: before it's reported. I mean children, Is that correct? This

406
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: lady and ten children, Yes, that's my understanding. Now at

407
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: least one of them has grown, has left the home

408
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: as an adult now and has moved out. But but yeah,

409
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: it's my understanding they're ten children, Nancy. We did at

410
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: least fifteen shows focusing on Tad Cummins, including several interviews

411
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: with the lawyers helping Elizabeth Thomas's father and his search

412
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: for answers and for the return of his daughter. Let's

413
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: listen to what attorney Jason Whiteley told us back in

414
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: April that he was learning about how the high school

415
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: teacher targeted this child grooming her before the kidnapping. Nancy.

416
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: The grooming process that this I think you described as

417
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: a pervert, and that's a a word, but the grooming

418
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: process was actually said perv. There you go. That had

419
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 1: been going on in earnest for a long time. We're

420
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: hearing stories about backrubs, shoulder rubs, holding hands, being alone

421
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: in the room consistently with him back rub whoa BackRub?

422
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: He's giving this little girl backrubs in the classroom. We're

423
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: getting reports of those kinds of things, and actually that

424
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: that particular allegation was in the cafeteria and more than once,

425
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: that's making me even matter at the Morin County School

426
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: System than I already was. It will be a cold

427
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: day in h e double l that some male teacher

428
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: gave my daughter a BackRub. He'd got a knuckle sandwich,

429
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: no mayo, and a heartbeat from me, all right, backrubs

430
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: in the cafeteria alone in the classroom. That's even caught

431
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: in a in a picture. By the way, what we're learning,

432
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 1: and I hope pray that as we dig into this,

433
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: that this that some of this is not true. But

434
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: this is what the consistent theme that we're hearing is

435
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 1: that he was in the nature of a of a

436
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 1: counselor to her. And this is a guy with an

437
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: associates degree who's a respiratory therapist, who really he's not

438
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: even a teacher. You called him a teacher in your opening.

439
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 1: He's not a teacher. He was teaching, but he's not

440
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: a teacher, at least not a teacher in the traditional sense.

441
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute. I didn't think you

442
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: could teach in the public I mean I taught while

443
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: I was waiting a student talk, while I was waiting

444
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: to get into law school English. And I didn't think

445
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: you could actually teach in the public school system unless

446
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: you had your four year degree? Am I wrong about that? Well?

447
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: As my understanding of what Tennessee law has done, they've allowed,

448
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: they've they've they've softened the rules to allow for people

449
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,479
Speaker 1: that have legitimate skills to go in and teach. For example,

450
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: a medical doctor could teach science, right, you or I,

451
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: as people with law degrees could teach, um, you know,

452
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: a government class or something like that. Now that's my

453
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 1: understanding of what the law is designed to do. In

454
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: this case. Um, he was able to teach. And and

455
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 1: and while I don't know his his complete background yet,

456
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: because I don't trust his resume and we're having to

457
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: vet that did he put c I a operative on

458
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: the resume? He did not mean he was Apparently he

459
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: readily spoke to his students about those kinds of insane things.

460
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 1: And he obviously had this young girl believing these things,

461
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,479
Speaker 1: believing that he was a millionaire, believing that that he

462
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 1: was this special forces guy. It's just insane. But that

463
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: shows you the level of control that he had of her.

464
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: She had a special seat, allegedly, according to sources we

465
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: have next to his desk. And this wasn't because she

466
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: needed discipline, this was because she was a special student,

467
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: which he described in the report from the school as

468
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: his best friend. He also told other students that he

469
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: was a father figure to her. He used this abusive

470
00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 1: home angle to further persuade her to rely on him

471
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: as a therapist. She was allowed to leave class and

472
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: go to him, is what we understood, and we're trying

473
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: to confirm that. But these are you know, that's the

474
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: level think about this mother abused these children. She's out

475
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: of the picture and has been out of the picture.

476
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: He's still using that for his quote therapeutic reasons to

477
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: help this child, all the while he says, praying on her.

478
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: It's a sick picture. Yeah, I'm just amazed that. And again,

479
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: the fact that he kidnapped her is not the school

480
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: system's fault. But all the warning signs were there, the kissing,

481
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: the back massages, the special sea, the mentoring, all of that,

482
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: and I imagine that there's more. Those were red flags

483
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: that they should have caught. Another issue is you said,

484
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: and I'm coming back to this question because I got

485
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: crazy for a minute when you were describing it, But

486
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: you said there had been a long pattern of greeming

487
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: her and you refer to back massages, and if what

488
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: what else were you saying that you've learned about. We've

489
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: talked to students who said that that that they've been

490
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: seen holding hands, that he would insist to sit beside

491
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: her if it was in a group setting, that he

492
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: that this was open and obvious. Of course, the back

493
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: or shoulder rubs were seen on more than one occasion

494
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: she was in his classroom alone on a routine basis.

495
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: We've even had one student tell us that there's a

496
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: hospital bed there for demonstrative purposes where the child was

497
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: found by that child asleep on that bed one morning,

498
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: walked in. There's the child and him alone and she's

499
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: asleep on that bed. I mean, that's the kind of

500
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: stuff that we're hearing. Of Course, the children are getting

501
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: more and more afraid to speak the teachers and are

502
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: afraid and listen. I'm I'm a fan of our teachers.

503
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: That they're they've got a very tough job and they're

504
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: in a tough position. So I don't want to I

505
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: don't want the impression that I'm throwing our teachers under

506
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: the bus. What we're investigating here and extremely concerned about.

507
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: It's just an atmosphere that was created that allowed the

508
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: grooming to take place, and how why he was ever

509
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: in this place to begin with. Look, I have to

510
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: check myself, Nancy, because you know, I view this as

511
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: a lawyer. You know, we we're to be objective and

512
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: trying to help our clients be as objective as possible.

513
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: But then I find myself at times almost getting conflicted

514
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: because as a father, I'm a father of five with

515
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: three daughters. I put myself in the shoes of my client,

516
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: and when I then review the facts, I've become outraged.

517
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: And so you know, while I love our school system

518
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: and I support our teachers. I have teachers in my family.

519
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: They're wonderful people, and they're dedicated people, and nothing I'm

520
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: saying is meant to besmirche their uh them. In fact,

521
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: I went to that school, Nancy. That that's where I graduated.

522
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: I love that school. You know what, Jason Whiteley, this

523
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: is not about them, This is about him, Ted, How

524
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: did how did Commins do it? Now? That day that

525
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: she was taken, I understand in retrospect the children were

526
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,959
Speaker 1: not going to school. It was a teacher development day

527
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: or something. That's correct. Yeah, the school was out that day,

528
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: and so she was going to spend a day with

529
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: a friend and and so uh so and and the

530
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: father for his part, after the kissing intervent came to light,

531
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: which by the way, he learned a week late. But

532
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: but after after that came to light. Um, he was

533
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: especially vigilant and betting where she would go, who she

534
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: would be with, talking to the parents, monitoring her phone. UM.

535
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: You know, he was doing what a good parent would do. Um.

536
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: And and of course, UM, you know, the rest is history.

537
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: I mean, he obviously didn't know that this was going

538
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,479
Speaker 1: to take place, and so we have lots of questions about, uh,

539
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: about what was going on. And of course there's a

540
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: young lady that we had no reasonably was in on this.

541
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: She was just the young lady that dropped her all often.

542
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: I've talked to her. Law enforcements talked to her, and

543
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: clearly Elizabeth had a plan. We think that it was

544
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: clear as she had a plan to meet him. What's unclear, frankly,

545
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: is what her plan was that evening, because as you know,

546
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: we've heard conflicting news about what she intended in terms

547
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: of coming home that evening. She told her sister called

548
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: the police if I'm not home, and she did that emphatically,

549
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: and I don't have any doubt that she said those words.

550
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: But obviously she was with Tad Cummins secretly. So the

551
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: question is how what did she actually intend? Did she

552
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: intend to leave and stay away? Did she intend to

553
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: come back? What she herself conflicted, didn't know what she

554
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: wanted to do. Was it Tad that convinced her to

555
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: do that? Was she sort of on the fence. We

556
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: don't know the answers to those questions. We pray to

557
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: God that we get her back so we can find

558
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: the answers of the answers to those questions. I want

559
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: to pause and thank our partners making today's program possible.

560
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: And one of our partner said, I just love his

561
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: super beats. But my son first heard I was involved

562
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: with super beats. He meant, Mom, those are too costy,

563
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: their four dollars. He thought, I was talking about this

564
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: really expensive set of earphones. He's all about earphones, super

565
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 1: beats b E A T S. I'm like, no, my love,

566
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: no super beats b E E T s. You know,

567
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,439
Speaker 1: speaking of the twins, wouldn't it be great to have

568
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: all the energy you wanted all day long? So I could,

569
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 1: you know, run with them all day. But fatigue gets

570
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: in the way even for everyday activities. I mean, if

571
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: you're up at five thirty every morning like I am.

572
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: By about four o'clock you're dragging. It seems to get

573
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: worse every year. And this is why when you're twenty,

574
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: your body has a natural ability to maintain healthy circulation.

575
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 1: By age forty, now don't blow it. Dr Brian Russell,

576
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: but the twins think I'm eleven and a half. Don't

577
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 1: mess it up. By the time your forty, that ability

578
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: has decreased by half, and it leaves you feeling tired.

579
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: What can you do to get that circulation back and

580
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: fight fatigue? Drink super Beats listen. Super Beats promotes the

581
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:13,200
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582
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583
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:21,080
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584
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585
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586
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587
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588
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589
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590
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592
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593
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Speaker 1: You're not gonna get that at your your health food

594
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Speaker 1: store No. Eight hundred five one six zero six eight three,

595
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 1: or go to Nancy's beats dot com today. In fact,

596
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: I need to drink about a gallon right now because

597
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: I need energy. I'd like to ask you about his wife.

598
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: What's happening with his wife, Shane. They're divorced now. Julius

599
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: trying to put her life back together. And you gotta

600
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: remember she was a secretary at the school and she

601
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: has children that her kids are adults now, but she's

602
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: trying to put it all back together with them and

603
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: her grandkids. And Tad is now coming after her because

604
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: he said that the police used him to corrores confession

605
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: out of him, that she manipulated him, and to tell

606
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 1: him that she had sex, that he had sex with Elizabeth,

607
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: otherwise he said he wouldn't have Well. Also, I can

608
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: tell you what's going to happen. Part of this may

609
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: be suppressed because when you talk to your spouse and

610
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 1: you divulge your crime, the spouse isn't the one claiming

611
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: the privilege. You are the accused. So when your spouse

612
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: tries to take the stand, you your lawyer stands up

613
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: and says objection, privilege, And you're the one that keeps

614
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: a spouse from testifying. The wife of a Tennessee teacher

615
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: accused of kidnapping a girls student says she knew the answer,

616
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: but she asked anyway. Quote. I said, well, did you

617
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: sleep with her? Said Jill Cummins in an interview, a

618
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: TV interview. And this was describing a jail house conversation

619
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: she had with her husband on the phone. It should

620
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 1: be recorded, So actually she doesn't even have to He can't.

621
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: He cannot stop a recorded jail house conversation, even if

622
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: it's with his wife, because everybody knows that that's recorded.

623
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: You do it over the phone. You're at the creek

624
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 1: without a paddle. Unless they surprised me in Tennessee. Yes, idea,

625
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: Tad Cummins replied, Now, she has filed for divorce, and

626
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: you're telling me that it's gone through when it's final. Yes,

627
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: And she filed early on in the ordeal. Within a

628
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: week of Tad leaving, she had filed for a divorce.

629
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,439
Speaker 1: Joe Cummins recorded a public plead to her husband soon

630
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: after it was obvious he had disappeared with the young

631
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Thomas. Listen to what she said. This is not

632
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: who you are. We can help you get through this

633
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: no matter how far you've gone or what's happening right now.

634
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: God's grace is sufficient for you, and he wants you

635
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: to come home. Your family wants their poppy back. Please

636
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: do the right thing and turn yourself into the police

637
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: and bring Beth home. To those of you in the media,

638
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: thank you for helping to spread the word. Help us

639
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: get to get this message out as far as we can,

640
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: because we need help to find Tad and Beth and

641
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:21,839
Speaker 1: to bring them home safely. Thank you and God bless well.

642
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 1: For five weeks, he leads a nationwide man hunt down

643
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: a garden path, nobody can find him, and he turns

644
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: up all the way on the other side of the country.

645
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: The mystery of where Tad Cummins was hiding and if

646
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Thomas was safe, was finally resolved April. After more

647
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: than a month on the run, the Tennessee teacher was

648
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 1: taken into custody arrested. The team recovered. They were in

649
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: a cabin and a remote section of northern California. K

650
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: d r V TV reporter Mike Duffy tells us about

651
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: how that all came about, where they were found and

652
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:05,280
Speaker 1: taken into custody. It's a remote part of northern California.

653
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: Very few people live there. The entire county has about

654
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: forty five thousand people live in sisqu County, so it's

655
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: easy to see how someone could go there and escape

656
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: for a period of time. Now, this is also the

657
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 1: meeting area of multiple national forests. You have both the

658
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: Shasta Trinity National Forest. You also have this popular trail

659
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: that runs through the area, and people come from all over, backpackers, transients.

660
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 1: They go to this place to get away. And it

661
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,720
Speaker 1: seems that in this case, what we found in our

662
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: coverage at KTRV is that they were looking for this commune.

663
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: It seems that he might have watched a documentary by

664
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,919
Speaker 1: the name of Commune that came out in two thousand five,

665
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: which highlights this commune that people did go to. It's

666
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 1: called black Bear Ranch. It's in a very remote part

667
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 1: of the state. He was ultimately found in a town

668
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 1: called Cecilville. The entire town of Cecilville probably has about

669
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: thirty or forty people in it, so it's not a

670
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: big place of its own. About twenty miles north of it,

671
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: in a mountainous area is black Bear Ranch, and black

672
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: Bear Ranch is only about eighty square miles in total,

673
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: and this area has about six or seven people living

674
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: in it. But it is a commune. It did start

675
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 1: back in the sixties and it's a place where people

676
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 1: still can go to get away. You have to intentionally

677
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: go there. We sent our own reporters to this place.

678
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: It took them multiple hours to even find the commune,

679
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: to find Cecilville. These roads, even at this point in

680
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: the year, you know where in the springtime. It is April,

681
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,720
Speaker 1: they still had a hard time getting there because roads

682
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: were still filled with snow. Active logging is going on

683
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: in this area. You have to know where you want

684
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: to go. He wanted to go to black Bear Ranch.

685
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: He wanted to be a part of the community, but

686
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 1: the black Bear Ranch people said, we're not quite sure

687
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: you'd fit in here and told him that they had

688
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 1: to leave. We spoke with multiple people who were there.

689
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: In fact, we interviewed one man who lives on the commune.

690
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: His name is Peter Laughing Wolf, and he interacted with

691
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: him one on one. He said that Ted Cummings was

692
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 1: kind of a aggressive personality. He said that he saw

693
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: Tad and Elizabeth. He spoke with Tad, but he thought

694
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: it was interesting because while Tad was aggressive, Elizabeth kind

695
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: of took a more submissive role. He said, Tad spoke

696
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: for Elizabeth most of the time when they interacted. He

697
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,959
Speaker 1: arrived in Cecilville. He met up with a young man

698
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,359
Speaker 1: year old by the name of Griffin Barry, and he said,

699
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 1: you know, we're trying to get to black Bear Ranch,

700
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 1: but we have no more money left. We're out of gas.

701
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: Griffin Barry politely filled up this guy's tank, gave him

702
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: forty bucks, said you know, best luck going to black

703
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: Bear Ranch. So then Tad and Elizabeth went to black

704
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: Bear Ranch. They spent a couple of days there. It

705
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: sounds like the Black Bear Ranch people said that they

706
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't be a good fit there. So he felt rejected

707
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: and came back down the mountain, still had no money,

708
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 1: still hard on his luck, and met back up with

709
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: Griffin Barry. Griffin Berry said, you know what, if you

710
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: want to work for us, we'll let you live in

711
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: this little cabin in the back yard and you can

712
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 1: do things for us. So the first day they did

713
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: hard physical labor. Apparently they were moving stones from the

714
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 1: river um into the yard sound that they were trying

715
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 1: to build something of a fence, and it was within

716
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: that time that Griffin Barry was tipped off that hey,

717
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: this could this guy could be someone really bad. I

718
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: don't think they realized who it was, and in fact,

719
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: they said that they were surprised, but they did realize

720
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: that something wasn't right. They realized that this person didn't

721
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: quite fit into what they wanted. And it's also interesting, Nancy,

722
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: this black Bear ranch is actively looking for people to

723
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: join their commune. But they still rejected that that couple

724
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: that showed up the young man who ultimately did turn

725
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: him into authorities. Griffin Barry, so that he was alerted

726
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: by someone in the town. They showed him a picture

727
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: of this news report about this man hunt for a

728
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 1: man and a young girl from Tennessee, and he, Griffin

729
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: Berry says, oh my gosh, that guy is in my backyard.

730
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: So he ultimately called authorities in Tennessee, who alerted the

731
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: Sisko County Sheriff's Department, and they were the ones who

732
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: ultimately made the rest. They went to this farm. They

733
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: didn't want to compromise Elizabeth Thomas's safety, and so they

734
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: were there at about two am in the morning, and

735
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 1: of course to get them separated it would have been difficult.

736
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: So what they did was they sent Griffin Berry to

737
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: try to get him to come out, and Griffin Berry

738
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: said he first honked his horn on his car to

739
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: see if he could kind of lure him out of

740
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: the house. Didn't work, so then he called so then

741
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,959
Speaker 1: he called Tad Cummins to come out of the house

742
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:10,879
Speaker 1: and said he had some more work for him. That's

743
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: when Tad Cummins came out of the house and authorities

744
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: ultimately made the arrest. I have no doubt that the

745
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: trial is not going to go forward as it was

746
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: scheduled anytime soon. I'll tell you why, Shane. You and

747
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: I have covered enough court cases to know this. If

748
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: the defense screams enough that they're not ready, the judge

749
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 1: won't make them go forward, because if they're made to

750
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 1: go forward, then they can later claim on appeal I

751
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: wasn't ready and therefore I didn't get a fair trial exactly.

752
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: And Nancy, he you said legal team. He's been appointed

753
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: a public defender, So I mean I think that that

754
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: might uh the judge to give him some leeway there.

755
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: And there's a reason for that as well. That public defender,

756
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: just like the prosecutor, is probably assigned to that courtroom.

757
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 1: So the judge no very well, the public defender and

758
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: the prosecutor assigned to the courtroom, and um, they probably

759
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: worked together a long time. So when the p D

760
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: public defender asked for more time, they're gonna get it.

761
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: So the latest on Tag Cummings, to my understanding is

762
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 1: A he wants out to jail. B he's going to

763
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: appeal everything that's appealable so far, whether it be uh

764
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: not suppressing search warrants or statements, everything there is to appeal,

765
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: he's going to appeal it. In addition to Memphis reporters

766
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: Shane Deeter joining me right now, I want to thank

767
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: not only you for being with us, but also our

768
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: partner making our program possible. One eight hundred Dentist, if

769
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770
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772
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773
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774
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775
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777
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778
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779
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781
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782
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783
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784
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Speaker 1: in January. Us sure the new year in with a smile,

785
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789
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790
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Speaker 1: what you are doing giving people a beautiful smile at

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Speaker 1: an awesome price, and thank you for being our partner today.

792
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,959
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off, Goodbye friend,