Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless,
Speaker 1: severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwear.
Speaker 2: Listening to podcast, you can't predict anything.
Speaker 1: The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light.
Speaker 1: Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting
Speaker 1: for elk. First Light has performance apparel to support every
Speaker 1: hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light
Speaker 1: dot com, f I R S T L I t
Speaker 1: E dot com. This episode is gonna be called muzzle
Speaker 1: order blues. I have, well, yeah, unless Seth's trying to
Speaker 1: launch a new show called Tain't Talk but because he's
Speaker 1: been listening to a lot of health and wellness podcasts.
Speaker 1: But mussloader blues because once again I have failed to
Speaker 1: uh get it done, as they say, with my muzzloader. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just don't have the skills man, Like you know
Speaker 1: a tool. I'm a rifle man. Let me the kind
Speaker 1: of center fire.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's got to be similar to like archery, Like
Speaker 3: you're not getting any further away than you would in archery,
Speaker 3: and you got it, you got close.
Speaker 1: But archery you get to you get to hunt before
Speaker 1: the gun hunter. Archery you get first cracks and mussloader.
Speaker 1: You get last cracks, meaning people been terrorizing these port animals,
Speaker 1: and then you gotta you try to further antagonize them
Speaker 1: when they're kind of tuned into the what's up?
Speaker 2: Yeah archery, all your arrows work too, and yeah it's going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that the boat's going off when I
Speaker 1: let her go, she's going, she's going. Yeah. A lot
Speaker 1: of stuff like I wrote in with a business idea
Speaker 1: from a podcast, and I get a lot of these,
Speaker 1: but this one I wanted to His name is Brian.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to get you guys feeling on it
Speaker 1: because I'm having a hard time understanding it.
Speaker 2: I have.
Speaker 1: I didn't invent this, but if you have a bill
Speaker 1: cap on, I'm gonna put my bill cap on. A
Speaker 1: demonstrator had my buyos too.
Speaker 2: They're just in your truck, and we got a set
Speaker 2: of vinyls. Same. You want to grab those?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I canep grabb those set of binyls out of
Speaker 1: the truck. So here I put my bill cap on
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna demonstrate a strategy of knock a knocking
Speaker 1: byo knocking binocular strategy. What I was talking about is
Speaker 1: that you can use your bill again I didn't. I
Speaker 1: didn't invent this. It's always then around. But these are
Speaker 1: stabilizing pinoclars, so it's less relevant here I'm holding the parabindoctors.
Speaker 1: Let's say these aren't stabilized binoculars. You forew people watching
Speaker 1: at home not listening when you hold them up.
Speaker 2: Have you ever? You know this trick? Every knows this trick.
Speaker 1: You clamp, You clamp your uh fingers. You your ratchet
Speaker 1: your binos. Where's that camera? You ratchet your bino's to
Speaker 1: the bill of your hat, and if you want to
Speaker 1: get mega stable, you pull slightly so I'm pinching them.
Speaker 2: M hmm. I like to get the hands. I like
Speaker 2: to uh, I like to get the hands a little
Speaker 2: more on the side, like yes, that way, it's like
Speaker 2: put it's like putting blinders up. That's not the right
Speaker 2: way to do it.
Speaker 3: No, that is that then you can get all you
Speaker 3: basically grab it with the binos with your palms.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you put all four fingers on your.
Speaker 1: So you're like a dude from college in the nineties,
Speaker 1: you know when you used to wrap your hat around
Speaker 1: a beer can.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, But that if you do that then,
Speaker 2: especially when the sun's out. Yeah, put your blinders.
Speaker 1: Up, because I run Backstreet boys when it's sunny out.
Speaker 2: He did that.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying? So the son's over here,
Speaker 1: I run it like this, right.
Speaker 2: But if you apply to our method, do you want to? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And then I'm boned on this. So then you're see
Speaker 1: what you're saying.
Speaker 2: You're stable and you're not getting any leak or light
Speaker 2: leaking inside. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I can see it a little
Speaker 1: bit either way. The what I have in BET, I
Speaker 1: didn't invent that. But what I did in BET was this.
Speaker 1: I invented the poll, just one. No one had done that.
Speaker 2: There's not a soul in the world that has ever
Speaker 2: done that.
Speaker 1: Not not. When you put a slight pull for extra stability.
Speaker 1: A guy heard me talking about this named Brian.
Speaker 2: Okay, slight poll, huh yeah, locks in if you like,
Speaker 2: I feel like a push would lock in.
Speaker 1: No that it's hitting your eyes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then you're stable against your face.
Speaker 1: I can't explain it better. Later, this guy writes in Brian,
Speaker 1: if you switch the letters in his name around, you
Speaker 1: get brain. He says, I just had an idea. Well, first,
Speaker 1: he says, hey, Steve. He says, I just had an idea.
Speaker 1: I heard your podcast regarding the trick. Now listen carefully
Speaker 1: because I get confused for this. I heard your podcast
Speaker 1: regarding the trick to hang on to binoculars using the
Speaker 1: bill of your bill, cap bill of your cap, and
Speaker 1: he uppercases bill com I thought, why not come up
Speaker 1: with a strap system. Now here's where you gotta start
Speaker 1: paying attention. A strap system that goes around the binoculars. Comma,
Speaker 1: so forget though, I thought, why not come up with
Speaker 1: a strap system that goes around the binoculars. Comma, hold
Speaker 1: him into the exact place you want, and a strap
Speaker 1: then runs over the top of your head and attaches
Speaker 1: underneath your shoulders. Wow, binoculars stay glued to your eyes.
Speaker 3: Hard to them away, fail to see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't want you boys to get uncomfortable. By
Speaker 1: I'm removing my belt, you're thinking you eat or did
Speaker 1: something bad, or I'm gonna do something bad. Neither is true.
Speaker 1: He's saying, Man, there's so many straps. He's saying something
Speaker 1: to this effect, and then under the under back under
Speaker 1: my armpits. At that point, I think that's it, You're like,
Speaker 1: he just essentially would have been this is a business idea.
Speaker 3: Well essentially what he'd piggybacked off of wash kevlar helmet.
Speaker 1: No, he's right.
Speaker 2: Look, yeah, it's almost like almost like a set of
Speaker 2: nods on help.
Speaker 1: What he's not thinking of is that you can't go
Speaker 1: about your day.
Speaker 2: You gotta be able to flip him up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you can't find like, uh, you'd be tripping
Speaker 1: over stuff. Yeah, you can't drive to your spot.
Speaker 2: You can't be running around all day on twelve power.
Speaker 1: So any feedback would be wonderful. Keep keep plugging away
Speaker 1: at it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think it's gotta be uh, you know, like your
Speaker 2: fancy coon hunting hat, it's got the inner liner. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think, uh quick, it's got to be something on
Speaker 2: there that you can flip them up and pop them down.
Speaker 3: I'd pay good money to see Steve roll around the
Speaker 3: planes and the kevlar with just some nods on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah every time. Yeah yeah, and then if you fall,
Speaker 2: you protect it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was making a I was making an argument. Their day.
Speaker 1: My boy is, my older boy is tangled up at
Speaker 1: school and speech and debate class, m h I remember
Speaker 1: being Yeah, speech and debate is what it's called I
Speaker 1: went down to the to the orientation with my wife,
Speaker 1: and when they asked for questions, I was dying to
Speaker 1: ask a question, but I didn't. And then I told
Speaker 1: my wife, I said, I'm gonna tell you something, and
Speaker 1: you're not gonna like take it seriously. You're just gonna
Speaker 1: you're gonna like be mildly offended, and you're not gonna
Speaker 1: really listen to what I'm saying, Okay, And I was saying,
Speaker 1: it doesn't without knowing the ethics of a child, I
Speaker 1: don't think it makes sense to train them in speech
Speaker 1: and debate. And I said to her, I had I
Speaker 1: came up with this slogan, Today's children are tomorrow's enemies.
Speaker 2: WHOA, it's great, so.
Speaker 1: Picture it's great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1: This is a mildly and defensible position. But think about it.
Speaker 1: What I was saying is like, here, you got a
Speaker 1: whole class from your kids. I don't know what their
Speaker 1: belief systems are, but but here we are like, like,
Speaker 1: you donate your time, time or money to train them
Speaker 1: to be persuasive without knowing what their belief system is.
Speaker 1: How do you know you're not training someone who would
Speaker 1: be adversarial to your position? Training them and making them
Speaker 1: more convincing, thereby creating a future enemy.
Speaker 2: I think that happens.
Speaker 1: I think you would first vet you, you'd vet them
Speaker 1: to find the ones that you kind of agree with,
Speaker 1: and then train them one speech and debate.
Speaker 2: How would you vet them?
Speaker 1: And who's the questionnaire? I would do the questionnaire, but
Speaker 1: that would.
Speaker 2: Be that would be, that would be.
Speaker 1: To you and your belief Yes, and you'd have to
Speaker 1: try out for speech and debate. And I would accord
Speaker 1: in and volunteer to come in and be like, yes no.
Speaker 2: To speech and debate. According according to you're right, your
Speaker 2: wife probably did.
Speaker 1: I told her, and I've yet to have her come
Speaker 1: back to me with any kind of a reply.
Speaker 2: You'd have to have a board of people who like.
Speaker 1: Then I'd have to be able to vet the board,
Speaker 1: like uh, I'd have.
Speaker 2: To pick the board.
Speaker 1: Then you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm just saying if you wanted to keep it fair,
Speaker 2: or or you don't want to keep it fair, you
Speaker 2: just want people to believe what you believe.
Speaker 1: Can I give you a piece of Can I give
Speaker 1: you some listener feedback about this?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: This is all tee and up listener feedback. It's a
Speaker 1: great subject line. Uh, it starts out my three favorite
Speaker 1: four favorite words. Steve was one correct.
Speaker 2: That's how it starts out.
Speaker 1: Steve is, Steve is one correct about debate class and
Speaker 1: here's a real life example why dying to know. Yep,
Speaker 1: Steve is spot on when he says that teaching debate
Speaker 1: separate from ethics is dangerous. That's not really what I said,
Speaker 1: but sure my daughter did. It's a state champ debate
Speaker 1: guy who is a class AA hole when their relationships hours,
Speaker 1: he is expert at convincing her that the reason things
Speaker 1: have gone bad is because of her. He never takes
Speaker 1: responsibility for his actions and makes her feel like shit.
Speaker 1: His ability to win either side of a debate has
Speaker 1: given him the notion that he is never wrong because
Speaker 1: he can always justify his position in his mind and
Speaker 1: convinces her that she isnt the wrong because he is
Speaker 1: able to twist the situation and deflect blame back on her.
Speaker 1: One need this is the letter. I'm still reading the letter.
Speaker 1: One need to only be convincing in a debate, not ethical, moral,
Speaker 1: or write, and therein lies the issue. Signed a piste off, Dad,
Speaker 1: Did you write that letter and No, that wasn't what
Speaker 1: I was getting at. I was more getting at I
Speaker 1: don't want to train up by my like these other
Speaker 1: you know I've worried about, like the whole classroom of kids,
Speaker 1: like some of them are gonna have viewpoints different than mine,
Speaker 1: and then they become convincing, And what if they come
Speaker 1: convince me is something that I don't want to be convinced.
Speaker 2: So you're just you're you're ultimately scared of change. M
Speaker 2: h m. That's right, Seth.
Speaker 1: Can you can you share your reporting about bear spray?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is probably your first piece of original reporting.
Speaker 2: Probably it ain't it's not gonna be I mean, it's
Speaker 2: not crazy, but well let me tee you up. Okay.
Speaker 1: The other day on a podcast, we had a podcast
Speaker 1: with a guest who spent their career, much of their
Speaker 1: career working with grizzly bears and catching problem bears and
Speaker 1: dealing with catching bears and trying to get people to
Speaker 1: not have problems with bears stuff like that, and then
Speaker 1: there we got to do a conversation about bear spray
Speaker 1: and this guy's long time hunter worked a zwning guide
Speaker 1: and I laid out to him. Okay, the perennial debate pistol,
Speaker 1: bear spray?
Speaker 2: What do you like?
Speaker 1: He said, bear spray, and he went on to say,
Speaker 1: you know, very few people are actually proficient with a pistol,
Speaker 1: despite how much they might think they're proficient with a pistol.
Speaker 1: But with bear sprays, you're creating a cloud of spray.
Speaker 1: I see you, Chili did a little face.
Speaker 3: I just I mean, I would agree with the fact
Speaker 3: that a lot of people aren't proficient with a pistol,
Speaker 3: But like, I think a lot of things like one year,
Speaker 3: what if the wind's blowing in your face and like
Speaker 3: you blind the bear, but you also blind yourself, or
Speaker 3: what if you don't.
Speaker 1: Get the bear, because then the bear that's fine.
Speaker 3: But like, I just think that a lot more things
Speaker 3: can go wrong with bear spray. And personally, I just
Speaker 3: feel more comfortable with a gun because I mean, I've
Speaker 3: never had to shoot out a bear, but I've seen
Speaker 3: videos and I've like read reports like a lot of
Speaker 3: the bears just bugger off at the sound of a gun.
Speaker 1: I've had him go towards the sound of a gun. Well,
Speaker 1: I've shot in front of him and then had him
Speaker 1: go look at where I shot because they saw something move.
Speaker 1: I think it depends on the person either way. I've
Speaker 1: shot my pistol thousands more times than I have my
Speaker 1: bear spray. Okay, you're ready for your reporting though.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, then someone didn someone write in about assault
Speaker 2: bear spray for assault. Greg Fonce, who's been on the
Speaker 2: podcast Greg. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well Greg Fonce, he's a he's a firefighter, yeah in Sacramento,
Speaker 1: and he said his experiences with bear spray are not
Speaker 1: from people carry him around for bears, but it's kind
Speaker 1: of a thing commonly used for assault and robbery. He says,
Speaker 1: I bet more people get sprayed by bear spray then
Speaker 1: bears get sprayed by bear spray. Absolutely true.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: I've had two incidents of getting sprayed by bear spray,
Speaker 1: not bears. I've yet to see a bear get shot
Speaker 1: with bear spray. I've seen bears get fired at with guns,
Speaker 1: but not fired at by bear spray. And I have
Speaker 1: a couple of times that okaysion to shoot in front
Speaker 1: of them to try to deter them.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, by Greg writing in about that, that brought
Speaker 2: up this story that I was telling these guys of there.
Speaker 2: I live in three Forks, Montana, and there was a
Speaker 2: bar that back in the summer got robbed during like
Speaker 2: the evening when it was full of people, and the
Speaker 2: guy came in and just sprayed everyone with bear spray,
Speaker 2: took the money and ran out. So while everyone's like
Speaker 2: blinded and coffin and whatnot, he's pulling money out of
Speaker 2: the you know, the cash still at large, still the
Speaker 2: largest when caught them. I don't think they did.
Speaker 1: You know that how they made that Ocean's eleven movie.
Speaker 1: You could make a really short like Oceans one. They're
Speaker 1: really short, one of those heist movies where that guy
Speaker 1: just comes in that bear spray and grabs the stuff
Speaker 1: and runs out. It would be a short. Yeah, just
Speaker 1: get it, be like a YouTube short called Oceans one.
Speaker 2: Hopefully you could turn into a full length movie. And
Speaker 2: that happens in the beginning, and then the rest of the.
Speaker 1: Movie is, oh, just make a part of a movie.
Speaker 2: Trying to trying to figure out who did it.
Speaker 4: Did he recoup the cost of a bear spray because
Speaker 4: those are kind of expensive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how much money was stolen he stole, Like.
Speaker 1: Did they get the bar cleaned out and back in business?
Speaker 2: Yes they did, But I still hear every once in
Speaker 2: a while, like someone will be like I was in
Speaker 2: the plaza and my skin got irritated when I was
Speaker 2: playing the the gambling machines or whatever.
Speaker 1: Really because they're still like, yeah, I can't believe they
Speaker 1: never caught him.
Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't hear that they that they caught him.
Speaker 2: Maybe they did, but I don't think so.
Speaker 1: When I was a little kid, my dad was my
Speaker 1: mom and dad were out to dinner with some of
Speaker 1: their friends and the other woman besides my mom, right,
Speaker 1: she had a little thing of mace, and my dad
Speaker 1: was curious about her some kind of spray and the
Speaker 1: key chain and he was curious about its range and
Speaker 1: shot it in the restaurant into a vent Oh, not realizing.
Speaker 2: It's like, uh, you know, it's real strong.
Speaker 1: It's strength, and the whole place got evacuated.
Speaker 2: Wow, did they nose him?
Speaker 1: Yeah. It became a often told story in my family. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's probably not a good thing, this guy says this
Speaker 1: bear spray accidents. Listen to episode three sixty five, and
Speaker 1: the part of bear spray going off randomly reminded me
Speaker 1: of being on a caribou hunt in Alaska. My friend
Speaker 1: Lewis and I come out of the tent and there's
Speaker 1: caribou on top of the hill outside camp. We grab
Speaker 1: our guns and packs and head off. That sounds like
Speaker 1: caribou hunting. Louis is supposed to shoot first. He drops
Speaker 1: his bag on a tussock. It lands on his bear spray,
Speaker 1: causing it to go off. It shoots a stream of
Speaker 1: spray across Lewis's chest, causing him to drop like a rock.
Speaker 1: Between gas was air. He was yelling for me to
Speaker 1: shoot the bull, which I happily did.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, nice, at least they got the bowl.
Speaker 1: Another time, I left canna spray in my eighty three
Speaker 1: GMC pick up after a day hiking in July. Come
Speaker 1: back out the next morning and the canister had exploded
Speaker 1: in my truck. That's common.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard that.
Speaker 1: Eventually got him clean by stripping all the interior parts
Speaker 1: out in pressure washing them. I've heard of cars getting totaled.
Speaker 2: From you know I have. I have bear spray in
Speaker 2: my bag right now because we're in a bury area.
Speaker 1: What are you gonna do get it out of your
Speaker 1: bag when he comes for you?
Speaker 2: Well, no, I just listen to my story. Okay, it's
Speaker 2: in my just my Duffel bag. I was gonna I
Speaker 2: don't know if I thought I needed. I was gonna
Speaker 2: put it in my little hearts thing. But I have
Speaker 2: I think at Walmart, I got you know, like pub
Speaker 2: mix stuff comes into like a plastic cylinder. I have
Speaker 2: it in that thing kind of wrapped up so it's
Speaker 2: not just bouncing around in there with the lid on.
Speaker 2: And that's how I transport it.
Speaker 1: I keep mine in a mini animal can because you
Speaker 1: can put two or three of them in a mini
Speaker 1: animal can and it's got a little foam in there
Speaker 1: to keep it from rattling around. But that way you
Speaker 1: can cut loose and nothing's coming out of there.
Speaker 2: So if you're gonna have in your car, put it
Speaker 2: in something like that.
Speaker 1: There are a couple instances where pepper sprays have taken
Speaker 1: down aircraft, small aircraft.
Speaker 2: I believe that Alaska.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I'm sure probably, I'm sure it's having a
Speaker 1: Canada as well. But yeah, I want to cut cut
Speaker 1: loose in the in the cockpit. So German, you fly
Speaker 1: with bush planes, they take your spray and they tape it.
Speaker 1: They duct tape it to the struts on the wings.
Speaker 1: But there's ben cases like that. And there was an
Speaker 1: air wreck not long ago where they weren't able to
Speaker 1: determine the cause. Inside the cockpit everything was orange, but
Speaker 1: they could never determine. It was inconclusive whether the can
Speaker 1: erupted upon impact. Oh there's the can erupted and caused
Speaker 1: the plane to crash.
Speaker 2: Yep, we've been flying in Alaska before where you look
Speaker 2: out the window and that can start shaking it.
Speaker 1: Shit, that's like that movie Gods must be crazy, remember
Speaker 1: that movie. All of a sudden, here you are and
Speaker 1: then here's a temper spray. It comes down. We've been
Speaker 1: having some discussions. This is more listener feedback. We've been
Speaker 1: having some discussions about, Well, there's another thing I was
Speaker 1: gonna talk about, but it's so talked about now everyone
Speaker 1: I know of sense to me a tragedy. Were in Virginia,
Speaker 1: a bear hunter. Everybody's seen this. Everybody's seen its near mind.
Speaker 1: A bear hunter was killed. They shot a bear in
Speaker 1: a bear fellow ovatry and landed on a guy and
Speaker 1: killed him. But it's so heavily commented on and reported
Speaker 1: on and misconstrued. We've been discussing lately when when states
Speaker 1: he's recip a thing called reciprocity for management purposes around
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing regulations. An example of what we're talking
Speaker 1: about would be this, Uh, in North Dakota, you can
Speaker 1: spear pike through the ice only if a North Dakotan
Speaker 1: would be allowed to spear pike through the ice in
Speaker 1: your state or province. You tracking all, let me give
Speaker 1: you this one. Let me give you an example. This
Speaker 1: just changed, but let me give you an example. Montana,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I know where you're going with this one.
Speaker 1: Prohibit non residents from trapping fur bearing animals and not
Speaker 1: non game.
Speaker 2: Unless their state allows unless.
Speaker 1: No, no, they just forbid non residents. Oh yeah, they're
Speaker 1: the ones that started it, Montana. They just changed it.
Speaker 1: But Montana will not sell a fur harvester license to
Speaker 1: a non resident.
Speaker 2: Oh well, before that, it wasn't me out. Okay, you
Speaker 2: tell everybody. No. I thought at one point in time
Speaker 2: it was a non resident could trap in Montana if
Speaker 2: their state allows non residents to trap there.
Speaker 1: No, because Montana is the one that said you can't. Gotcha,
Speaker 1: they they they're them Minnesota. Okay, there are certain states
Speaker 1: that do not let non residence trap fur bearing animals.
Speaker 2: Gotcha.
Speaker 1: Now you could come to Montana trap fox. You'd come
Speaker 1: to Montana trap kyote because they're non game. But you
Speaker 1: couldn't trap bid page, you couldn't trap beaver, odd muskrat. Gotcha,
Speaker 1: fur bearing animals. So a case of reciprocity would be
Speaker 1: like Wyoming. For instance, Wyoming says, okay, you we will
Speaker 1: sell a non resident a fur harvester license if that
Speaker 1: if our residence can buy in their state.
Speaker 2: Gotcha.
Speaker 1: And so it would be that if you lived in Montana,
Speaker 1: you could not trap in Wyoming. Why because Montana had
Speaker 1: banned Wyoming people from trapping. Minnesota has another situation like that.
Speaker 1: That's a case of reciprocity. There's a reciprocity, Like I said,
Speaker 1: with pike spearing, if you don't allow if your state
Speaker 1: doesn't allow pike spearing Wisconsin, you can't come spear northeast
Speaker 1: in North Dakota.
Speaker 2: Gotcha.
Speaker 1: I was a while ago I was musing about whether
Speaker 1: you would start to use reciprocity against states that are
Speaker 1: doing bans on certain hunting activities. So meaning California bands
Speaker 1: bobcat hunting, bobcat trapping, mountain lion hunting, should a Californian
Speaker 1: be allowed to go like should a Californian be allowed
Speaker 1: to go to another state and participate in those activities
Speaker 1: when their state has banned the right. I was just
Speaker 1: musing about asking this question just to like, you know,
Speaker 1: get intellectual. You know, the intellectual juice is flowing.
Speaker 2: Fee that was the case. I hope they banned deer
Speaker 2: hunt in Washington.
Speaker 1: Well, that's where it becomes interesting because if you have,
Speaker 1: like because you have a lot of states that are
Speaker 1: becoming increasingly adversarial, you have you have like states that
Speaker 1: are coming adversarial to hunters and hunters, trappers, fishermen, right yep.
Speaker 1: And then you know, like Washington when they during the pandemic,
Speaker 1: they banned fishing by yourself. Like if you had a
Speaker 1: pond in your yard, you could go out there and
Speaker 1: shoot golf balls into that pond during COVID, but there
Speaker 1: was a period of time when you couldn't go there
Speaker 1: and cast into that pond.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just you know, keeping everyone safe.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So as you have states Colorado, well Colorado has
Speaker 1: beat one of these things, but Colorado, Washington, California, other
Speaker 1: states in the East. As you have these states that
Speaker 1: are becoming like super restrictive, you create kind of like
Speaker 1: a hunting and fishing refugees that then carry on all
Speaker 1: their activities elsewhere, meaning Washington State. They like, they're very
Speaker 1: sting they don't they don't want to manage predators. They're
Speaker 1: very stingy with big game tags. And so you create
Speaker 1: a lot of hunting refugees who move into neighboring states
Speaker 1: and Montana, right, So should you like, would a state
Speaker 1: ever say, like, listen, if you're gonna if like, let's
Speaker 1: say Colorado had passed the Mountain Lane, but no, let's
Speaker 1: stay with California, California bands trapping the band hunting cats,
Speaker 1: hunting lines. Would Montana ever be like, Okay, if that's
Speaker 1: how you guys are about this, then your people cannot
Speaker 1: come here and do that here.
Speaker 2: They won't do that because it drives too much revenue.
Speaker 1: Well, Yanni says, you're punishing the wrong people. Yeah, Yanni says,
Speaker 1: like if Colorado had passed their Mountain Lion ban, so
Speaker 1: then you want to further punish those people in Colorado
Speaker 1: in saying they can't go elsewhere to do it.
Speaker 2: People who agree with the Mountain Lion Band Colorado just
Speaker 2: can't even come to Montana at all. They just have
Speaker 2: to stay there, but we'll take the hunters.
Speaker 1: That'd be fine with me. I feel like gloating all
Speaker 1: over again about that not passing, But.
Speaker 2: You can if you want.
Speaker 1: You know what I came up with that I haven't
Speaker 1: had a chance to use yet is a high know
Speaker 1: you know the rhino is Yes, what hunter? Namely, that'd
Speaker 1: be like the hunters that were for the Mountain Lion
Speaker 1: Band in Colorado.
Speaker 2: High knows like I'm a hunter.
Speaker 1: I hunt pheasants once a decade, and I support the
Speaker 1: ban on mountain lions. That was a thing.
Speaker 2: That was a high Yeah, that was the thing. That's crazy.
Speaker 1: Anyways, this guy writes in about reciprocty right for this,
Speaker 1: the state of Ohio does not require resident landowners to
Speaker 1: purchase a hunting license or deer tag to hunt their property.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Really a minimum of five acres? I had no idea.
Speaker 1: Is that true? The state of Ohio does not require
Speaker 1: resident landowner to purchase a hunting license or deer tag
Speaker 1: to hunt their own property if they have a minimum
Speaker 1: of five acres.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's true in multiple states. I think
Speaker 2: it was like that in New Jersey.
Speaker 1: This privilege extends to the landowner's spouse and children. Resident
Speaker 1: landowners still have to tag their deer, report them and
Speaker 1: are subject to bag limits and all the other wrecks.
Speaker 1: I had no idea.
Speaker 2: I want to say, I could be wrong on this,
Speaker 2: but I want to say New Jersey was like that,
Speaker 2: and you just go pick up your tags. But if
Speaker 2: you're hunting your own place, you're on your own place,
Speaker 2: and it's a above a certain acres, you just go
Speaker 2: get your tags.
Speaker 1: I can't say I have a problem with that. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I didn't know. That surprises me.
Speaker 2: That's fine. Whatever. Well, it's like, do you know.
Speaker 1: That in Wisconsin, if you're on your own land, you're
Speaker 1: exempt from small game regulations or something like that. I
Speaker 1: think you can hunt squirrels year around. Really, I think
Speaker 1: so Doug's probably having a heart attack on skits deer
Speaker 1: right now. They you see Doug free Doug. He goes on,
Speaker 1: are you ready for this? Okay, so we've established this
Speaker 1: resident landowner Ohio. Okay, all that a non resident you're
Speaker 1: tracking A non resident Ohio landowner and spouse and children
Speaker 1: may hunt their property without a license or deer tags
Speaker 1: if the non resident state of residence.
Speaker 2: My god, oh, I feel like we need to draw
Speaker 2: this out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I get it, but I'm just okay, we've
Speaker 1: established that more than eight times. We've established if you're
Speaker 1: in Ohio, you're a resident, you're hunting your own pad,
Speaker 1: you got more than five acres, you still got to
Speaker 1: abide by the hunting lawsby don't need a tag. Now,
Speaker 1: the state of Ohio does not require resident landowners to
Speaker 1: purchase the hunting license or deer tag to hunt their property.
Speaker 2: Okay, mm hmm, I've already read that. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: just screwing itself so bad, the non resident part.
Speaker 1: Screwing it up bad? Do you think about running for
Speaker 1: political office? But I'd have a bad time in the debate.
Speaker 2: You'd be like I lost seconds.
Speaker 1: I'd be like, that's not gonna work for me. Okay, writing, Okay,
Speaker 1: we've established that. Now, going on, a non resident Ohio
Speaker 1: land owner, an spouse, some children may hunt their property okay,
Speaker 1: without a license or deer tags if the non resident
Speaker 1: state of residence allows non resident landowners to hunt their
Speaker 1: land without a license or deer tags.
Speaker 2: Okay. So if I lived in Pennsylvania and they allow
Speaker 2: that same thing, which they don't.
Speaker 1: But they'd have to allow a dude in Ohio.
Speaker 2: But I own property Inhio. Ohio, I would be allowed
Speaker 2: to do the same thing in Ohio because Ohio has
Speaker 2: that same rule.
Speaker 1: Does Pennsylvania charge a non resident a deer license if
Speaker 1: the non resident owns land in Pennsylvania, that's.
Speaker 2: What he's saying. Well, I mean Pennsylvania doesn't do that anyway.
Speaker 1: Okay, so then they're out.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, God, that's confusing. Well he goes on. Oh jeez,
Speaker 2: to the best of my knowledge, Oh nope, back up.
Speaker 1: As a Michigan resident, he's going to is everybody.
Speaker 2: Tracking, He's a Michigan residence.
Speaker 1: Is like a tongue.
Speaker 2: This is intellectually, he's a Michigan resident who owns property
Speaker 2: in Ohio.
Speaker 1: I don't know that yet. Yes he is. Okay, everybody tracking, Yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody track, Ye listen to this kind of stuff keeps
Speaker 1: you from getting dementialator in life or yeah no, just
Speaker 1: little brain twisters. Okay, as a Michigan resident where residents going,
Speaker 1: he goes on as a Michigan resident where residents, non residents,
Speaker 1: landowners and non landowners must have a hunting license and
Speaker 1: deer tag. And an Ohio landowner, let me cut the
Speaker 1: parenthetical off.
Speaker 2: You read that too fast.
Speaker 1: As a Michigan resident and an Ohio landowner, my family
Speaker 1: and I do not benefit from this reciprocity.
Speaker 2: Because Michigan doesn't allow it.
Speaker 1: Because Michigan doesn't let non residents who happen to own
Speaker 1: a place in Michigan hunt in Michigan without their Michigan
Speaker 1: Deer license. This is chapped. This guy's asked enough that
Speaker 1: he's done some research. To the best of my knowledge,
Speaker 1: the only state's residents that benefit from this reciprocity arrangement
Speaker 1: are Ohio. In no other state they've created a reciprocity
Speaker 1: rule that doesn't apply to anyone. If you can prove
Speaker 1: this man wrong, that's my kind of reciprocity law makes
Speaker 1: you seem super lenient, But in fact, when you get
Speaker 1: into the details, no one applies.
Speaker 2: It's not catered to anyone. Yeah, huh, maybe it was.
Speaker 3: Well, I'd also be curious to know, as this Michigan resident,
Speaker 3: how hard is it for him, as a landowner in
Speaker 3: Ohio to get a tag in Ohio, Like if it's
Speaker 3: still like over the counter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got pay cup hundred bucks.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but like why is he complaining because.
Speaker 1: You watch your pennies and dollars take care of themselves.
Speaker 2: Fair fine, Yeah.
Speaker 1: He goes on, Okay, no, it's just he totally changes
Speaker 1: the subject. But it's not a non sequitor because he
Speaker 1: put down PS, which sort of announces it as you know,
Speaker 1: you're announcing it's a non sequitur PS not relating. And
Speaker 1: he also says, not related to the above, PS. Not
Speaker 1: related to the above, but another Ohio reciprocal agreement. This
Speaker 1: is different. This is interesting management. We'll talk about this
Speaker 1: because I like this, but it's different. Ohio and West
Speaker 1: Virginia allow residents of either state to hunt waterfowl and
Speaker 1: fish on the Ohio River without having a license from
Speaker 1: the other state. That's common. Yeah, that's common where for instance,
Speaker 1: New York and Pennsylvania and the Delaware River, they make
Speaker 1: a instead of creating Let's say you have one situation
Speaker 1: where Pennsylvania says you're allowed six small mouth to day
Speaker 1: and New York says you're allowed for a small mouth today,
Speaker 1: and you got this river that's you know, shoot a
Speaker 1: bowick cross. You create all kinds of problems. So what
Speaker 1: states will often do in those situations is they'll come
Speaker 1: and make the states will agree, they'll make a river
Speaker 1: bag limit, a river set of regulations, and allow anyone
Speaker 1: from the bordering states to fish the river.
Speaker 2: YEP.
Speaker 1: An interesting spot where this little bit of reciprocity does
Speaker 1: not exist is the Saint Mary's River, which divides Michigan.
Speaker 1: For there's probably many other places. The Saint Mary's which
Speaker 1: divides Michigan with Canada with Ontario. You need to pay
Speaker 1: attention where you are because there's a magical line running
Speaker 1: out in the middle of that stuff, and you got
Speaker 1: to know what side of that line you're on, even
Speaker 1: in your boat.
Speaker 2: I want to say. That's the thing on the Mississippi too.
Speaker 1: You know there are some spots in the Mississippi like
Speaker 1: that because remember a bass professional basque guy disqualified from
Speaker 1: a tournament because he had strayed across some invisible line
Speaker 1: and was actually fishing at different states waters and they
Speaker 1: had a different bag limit in those states or something
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1: It, but I like it when they come together and
Speaker 1: do those little deals.
Speaker 2: Right What about uh? Like people fish in Lake Michigan
Speaker 2: from the Michigan side, but make a big run? Is
Speaker 2: there is there? Say it again? Like if you're fishing Lake, Michigan,
Speaker 2: and you launch in Michigan, but make a big run
Speaker 2: and you're like closer to Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: I don't know how that. I don't know how Michigan
Speaker 1: Wisconsin do it. That's a great question. We never fished
Speaker 1: that far out. That's a lot. That's the ways. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got buddies that do. I don't know what they.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you got I'm guessing there on
Speaker 1: that lake of that size, I'm guessing you need to
Speaker 1: get a license when you cross the state line and
Speaker 1: the state line runs out in the water. Here's a
Speaker 1: guy on the same subject. Ready for this, yep. He
Speaker 1: says he was listening to the podcast this morning in
Speaker 1: his tree stand and killed the dough and he says,
Speaker 1: take that for what it's worth. Then he goes out
Speaker 1: to say, towards the end, they meaning we mentioned a
Speaker 1: write in where a guy complained about being a landowner
Speaker 1: and having to pay non resident fees. I remember this guy.
Speaker 1: He's like, how in the hell can I have h
Speaker 1: He's griping because he's like, I live in whatever, I
Speaker 1: don't know whether this Michigan and I own a place
Speaker 1: in Ohio. I shouldn't have to pay non resident fees
Speaker 1: in Ohio. But think about the can of worms you're
Speaker 1: opening up there, right, Like, Okay, do you want to
Speaker 1: file taxes in both states? Do you wanna? You know
Speaker 1: what I mean? There's like there's a thousand things right
Speaker 1: that you would probably not like if that was true. Well,
Speaker 1: he don't, you know, I'm I'm not giving him full credit.
Speaker 1: He does pay taxes. He pays land taxes there. But
Speaker 1: the way the whole country set up, you got to
Speaker 1: be a resident of a state. It's just how It's
Speaker 1: just it's hard to get around that. He goes on
Speaker 1: to say this. Towards the end, they mentioned a writing
Speaker 1: where a guy complained about being a landowner and having
Speaker 1: to pay non resident fees. I do the same thing. However,
Speaker 1: I live in Tennessee and hunt in Alabama. I wish
Speaker 1: the roles were reversed. But if you're born in Tennessee,
Speaker 1: you can apply every year for non resident native to
Speaker 1: Tennessee licenses. Damn, Idaho has that thing the lifetime, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Idaho had it for it's no longer the way, but
Speaker 1: you could get grandfathered in on it at once upon
Speaker 1: a time, and a lot of dudes took advantage of this.
Speaker 1: They knew they weren't gonna stay in Idaho. I could
Speaker 1: name names. And one of them likes to complain about
Speaker 1: anyone getting any kind of benefit, like anytime someone draws
Speaker 1: a tag, he's like down on them. But this individual,
Speaker 1: you guys know and love, ran out and bought his
Speaker 1: lifetime Idaho license before moving away from Idaho so that
Speaker 1: he could continue to dodge fees and hunt as a
Speaker 1: resident in Ohio. I thought you can still, and he
Speaker 1: cries foul at any advantage that anybody gets when it
Speaker 1: comes to getting a tag. He wishes he got.
Speaker 2: I thought you can still do that in Idahoo.
Speaker 1: I think they got rid of I don't think it
Speaker 1: works that way anymore. But if you said, oh, I
Speaker 1: drew a big horn tag in Idaho, he's gonna give
Speaker 1: you a big ol' eye roll. Must be nice.
Speaker 3: Is this Is this the same fella that's also not
Speaker 3: very lucky when it comes to drawing, Yes, because.
Speaker 1: Way way it's taking this gradually taking a toll on them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's taking it. It's taking a psychological toll. But they
Speaker 1: did that.
Speaker 2: They did that.
Speaker 1: Montana has a coming home to hunt. I can't remember
Speaker 1: who was talking to you about this, it's like if
Speaker 1: you like, it's meant to be that. Like, let's say
Speaker 1: you have a family and you your you have kids,
Speaker 1: and your your kids go away. It gives advantage to
Speaker 1: your kids to get tags so you can come home
Speaker 1: to hunt. The coming home to hunt hunt.
Speaker 3: Is that still like an application process or is it
Speaker 3: like kind of like an OTC.
Speaker 1: I think it's in a different I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think that's just different. Different got a different price,
Speaker 2: I think so.
Speaker 1: Uh, this gentleman says, uh, attached to this email's application.
Speaker 1: It would be cool to see more states do this. Also,
Speaker 1: y'all joked about voting in two different states. Oddly enough,
Speaker 1: my former police chief wasn't indicted for doing that and
Speaker 1: several other charges earlier this year. Was or wasn't It
Speaker 1: was not? I think he must have meant was probably
Speaker 1: when that came that came up, and when we did that,
Speaker 1: I think we did the episode. Yeah, remember we interviewed
Speaker 1: were you there when we interviewed the women that got
Speaker 1: mauled by the otter? No, I was telling a story
Speaker 1: on that one where I was in a restaurant overhearing
Speaker 1: people next to me. There's a huge table full of
Speaker 1: people and they were actually from an animal rights organization.
Speaker 1: They're having a dinner of Bozeman based animal rights organization
Speaker 1: and I'm overhearing them and there's a guy plotting. I
Speaker 1: got caught by my wife because I wasn't paying attention,
Speaker 1: but she was telling me because I was so engrossed
Speaker 1: by what they were talking about. And he was plotting
Speaker 1: than Illinois, but he wanted to be able to vote
Speaker 1: in a swing state, so was switching all of his
Speaker 1: stuff around to be able to go vote in Michigan. Wow,
Speaker 1: because he wanted to vote in a swing state because
Speaker 1: he wanted to vote against Trump. So then I said,
Speaker 1: when Trump says the election was rigged, I was like,
Speaker 1: well there's one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it ain't zero, ain't zero.
Speaker 1: Uh Man. This guy, he even though we said we're
Speaker 1: no longer going to talk about pre chewed food, he's
Speaker 1: like asking if there could be one last little thing.
Speaker 2: No, well that's an in depth.
Speaker 1: Deal, man. He's got it's a lot in here.
Speaker 2: He's got bullet points.
Speaker 1: Okay, there's a guy that's a tough one. There's a
Speaker 1: guy that wrote in and he had some things to
Speaker 1: say about making babies eat solid food and the advantages
Speaker 1: of breastfeeding. Then another guy wrote in and said, what
Speaker 1: does he know? He's a he's a DDS.
Speaker 2: Okay, what's dds?
Speaker 1: Dennis? And he laid out all these credentials and talked
Speaker 1: about how this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
Speaker 1: Now he's got a rebuttal.
Speaker 2: Uh when people say, what is what? What do they know?
Speaker 2: He's just a dentist. How do you know that guy
Speaker 2: isn't a hobbyist just like research some other topic when
Speaker 2: he goes home. Sorry, credibility. Yeah, when people say he
Speaker 2: what did he know he's a dentist? What people don't
Speaker 2: know that like maybe his hobby's going home and researching
Speaker 2: that kind of Well here's where he came out. Swing.
Speaker 2: I don't I don't have a degree in hunting whitetail bucks.
Speaker 1: But you know, but it's like it's it's sort of
Speaker 1: like a little bit generally be like generally accepted. Like
Speaker 1: if we're having an argument about George Washington, okay, and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, he chopped down that cherry tree, you know,
Speaker 1: and lied about it. And then a guy's like, well,
Speaker 1: I have a PhD in American history and I did
Speaker 1: my dissertation on the my You know, my thesis was
Speaker 1: on the veracity of the claim that George Washington chopped
Speaker 1: down a cherry tree and lied about it. Now, if
Speaker 1: I'm hearing this conversation, I'm probably gonna be looking to
Speaker 1: the PhD cherry chopper guy, Yeah, to maybe have a
Speaker 1: little more intel about that occurrence.
Speaker 2: I understand that, but I I think sometimes people get
Speaker 2: a little carried away with sometimes.
Speaker 1: Yes, but in some areas, this guy was saying, hey, man,
Speaker 1: it's better to breastfeed babies, and it's better to pre
Speaker 1: chew food and give them meat and give them tough
Speaker 1: stuff to chew on, chewy steaks and whatnot, and that
Speaker 1: we're creating muscular problems by giving babies all this soft food.
Speaker 1: And he has little squeeze bottles. This other guy writes
Speaker 1: in being like, you know, here's the deal. I'm the
Speaker 1: real expert, and that's all bs is what he says.
Speaker 1: M Okay, the dentist said that this other dentist gotcha. Now,
Speaker 1: this first denist comes back swinging because this other guy
Speaker 1: said his kid wants to fight that guy's kid.
Speaker 2: All right, let's hear it, dang, I'll tell you what
Speaker 2: dentist that thinks right.
Speaker 1: It's so it's so complicated, we really do, I really want.
Speaker 2: To get into this. I probably agree with the dentist
Speaker 2: who's all about eating deer meat and drinking milk.
Speaker 1: He starts out with a little dig because this guy
Speaker 1: was saying in the end of it, he made a
Speaker 1: joke like, hey, my kid'll fight your kid anytime. Okay,
Speaker 1: now that so the first Dennis now writes in, and
Speaker 1: he dresses his letter to the guy, so it's Max
Speaker 1: on one side and Matthew on the other side. Max
Speaker 1: wrote in saying, you should give your babies tough deer
Speaker 1: meat to help their jaws develop. And when their jaws
Speaker 1: develop and their musculature develops, it helps them in all
Speaker 1: kinds of ways throughout life. Yeah, this other guy's saying
Speaker 1: that's horseshit. That guy's name is Matthew. The first guy's
Speaker 1: Max Max Max. So now Matthew writes, Dear, honorable, honorable
Speaker 1: and distinguished colleague, Matthew, it's no shock that your baby
Speaker 1: wants to fight mine. Kids are wild. But here's the kicker.
Speaker 1: There's a connection between sleep disordered breathing and ADHD in children.
Speaker 1: ADHD's hallmark. Hyperactivity and emotional chaos can make kiddos more
Speaker 1: prone to throw hands in the playpen. A little slight
Speaker 1: sticks the knife right in the ribs before he even
Speaker 1: gets started.
Speaker 2: He goes on.
Speaker 1: Now, you might be asking, what does sleep breathing have
Speaker 1: to do with my kid's weak jaw? Excellent question. Research
Speaker 1: shows a high prevalence of mallow clusion, underdeveloped jaws, and
Speaker 1: children with obstructive sleep avenue compared to the control group.
Speaker 1: Simply put, your kid's jaw might be slacking in their sleep,
Speaker 1: and mood might be paying the price. And he goes next.
Speaker 1: I imagine you saying you still haven't proven that my
Speaker 1: baby's diet of squeeze bag peas and rubber nipples is
Speaker 1: ruining their jaw, And you're right. Every kid responds differently.
Speaker 1: But here's what research tells us. Breastfeeding is a positive
Speaker 1: factor that seems to reduce the incidents of posterior crossbite,
Speaker 1: skeletal class two and distal occlusion, and primary mixed dentician.
Speaker 2: I knew that. I didn't know.
Speaker 1: That animals raised on soft foods show more rotated and
Speaker 1: displaced teeth, crowded premolars, and absolutely and relatively narrower dental arches.
Speaker 1: Get this, middle aged adults in rural Kentucky had better
Speaker 1: occlusion than younger folks. The younger generation grew up eating
Speaker 1: commercially processed foods while their elders chomped on coarse, homemade fair.
Speaker 1: Then he goes out with a bunch of disclaimers. Breastfeeding
Speaker 1: is noise easy, feeding kids course or foods feels like
Speaker 1: a battle. We're all doing the best we can. But
Speaker 1: he ends with this, here's my advice. Cheer up some venison,
Speaker 1: spit it into your baby's bowl, and let the kid
Speaker 1: take a nap.
Speaker 2: That sounds like great advice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then he has all the citations, Dirt, if
Speaker 1: you want me to afford them to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be nice.
Speaker 4: Is this Is this a side of Stirring the Pot?
Speaker 4: Is this an intro onto that that series?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Stirring the Pot. That's my next show, TV show,
Speaker 1: stir in the Pot. You know what this?
Speaker 2: Then I said, yeah.
Speaker 1: I'll be like, hey, you know what's I'll call Dirt's girlfriend,
Speaker 1: you know, hands checking in.
Speaker 4: This is stirring the pot.
Speaker 1: That's kind of weird thing there. And Scott just can't
Speaker 1: stay thinking about the same dirt said there.
Speaker 2: Anyway, how let you go.
Speaker 4: I want to say, Hill, I.
Speaker 2: Have a great night.
Speaker 1: He has dirt been field. Okay, you just said something
Speaker 1: kind of strange about you there to night. Everything good.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't worry.
Speaker 1: I know if everything's fine, I don't know. Don't you know?
Speaker 1: I don't want to portray his trust.
Speaker 2: Gotta go another call, come there, do me a favorite.
Speaker 2: Don't tell my.
Speaker 4: Called Stephen reneul Is is signing off for stirring the pot.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know. I mean, I want to
Speaker 1: talk about the mussloader, but mussloader hunt, but I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't have to talk about musslier hunt. Seth. You're
Speaker 1: an expert. How many do you kill the mussloader?
Speaker 2: Seth? Well, at one point in time I killed more
Speaker 2: white tails with the mussloader than a rifle al lock. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I surpassed that now. I don't know, six, seven, eight, ten,
Speaker 2: I don't know. A handful, handful? Yeah, all bucks, Nope,
Speaker 2: not all bucks, some bucks, some bucks mostly does.
Speaker 1: Yeah. How many times have you dropped the hammer on
Speaker 1: a buck and the gun didn't go off or you
Speaker 1: messed up something several?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, no, go ahead. Well, how often was it
Speaker 2: a drive versus a like still hundred most most drives, yeah,
Speaker 2: most drives, maybe all drives. Yeah, I think all the
Speaker 2: deer I've ever killed with a flint lock has been
Speaker 2: from a deer drive. And a lot of times it's
Speaker 2: me doing the driving with rather than watching and you
Speaker 2: double bump, you just well a lot of times you yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so you jump them up and they go down, get
Speaker 2: shot at and come back, so they're on the move
Speaker 2: by that point. Yeah. Well sometimes yeah, uh, you.
Speaker 1: Know, I don't think i've even I have one time,
Speaker 1: I haven't tracked much with a round ball.
Speaker 2: What do you mean like blood tracks?
Speaker 1: By having blood track stuff that has hit by a
Speaker 1: round ball. When we say a round ball, like we're
Speaker 1: talking about there's there's muzzleloaders, and there's flint locks and
Speaker 1: flint locks. It's a whole different ball game, you know,
Speaker 1: because Muslims now, they're they're pretty sophisticated. You got inline
Speaker 1: musloaders with special primers and everything's kind of sealed and
Speaker 1: doesn't get wet. But a flint lock's hard to hunt,
Speaker 1: hard to learn, you know. Yeah, And one thing about
Speaker 1: when you when you loading a flint lock, you're taking
Speaker 1: like a lead sphere, you know, like a musketball and
Speaker 1: putting it down there. It's not conical.
Speaker 2: Shaped, Nope, it's just a ball lead.
Speaker 1: So when you're hitting a deer with that thing, when
Speaker 1: you recover that ball, what's to end up looking like?
Speaker 2: Trying to think if I ever recovered one, I don't
Speaker 2: remember every recovering one.
Speaker 1: Does it mushroom out or does it just punch a hole?
Speaker 2: I remember one time I shot a deer like right
Speaker 2: behind the sho shoulder, you know, double lunged, and it
Speaker 2: was like it was the biggest blood trail I've ever
Speaker 2: with that realm with the round ball. Yeah, yeah, I'd
Speaker 2: love to see. I've never seen one like shot in
Speaker 2: the Ballistic Jael or anything, so I honestly don't know
Speaker 2: what it does in there. But yeah, I don't think
Speaker 2: I've ever recovered one. Just punch out and go go
Speaker 2: about their business.
Speaker 1: It'd be interesting to check out.
Speaker 2: The blistic jail that it does in Blistic Jael. We
Speaker 2: should do that.
Speaker 1: We should shoot a bunch of flint locks and and
Speaker 1: uh shoot flint locks and the I mean the blissic
Speaker 1: Jel doesn't know that it was a flint lock. But
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, shoot a bunch of black
Speaker 1: powder flint locks in the ballistic gel.
Speaker 2: Ye, see what it actually does. I was surprised, how soft.
Speaker 2: What's the non round ball one we were using?
Speaker 1: This is a conical or a prelude MAXI ball.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the conical.
Speaker 4: How soft it was when you guys were round rodding it.
Speaker 2: That's lead for you man. Yeah, yeah, it gets misshaping.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, it is not a hell oft say. It's
Speaker 1: kind of got my ass handed to me on the
Speaker 1: most loader hunting A lot of close calls.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1: If I hadn't, like I announced a family moratorium on
Speaker 1: killing milder dose, I had a lot of opportunities to
Speaker 1: shoot me.
Speaker 2: You could kill a lot of those.
Speaker 1: But o, nap man, just tough hunting a spot. I'm
Speaker 1: not hunting the spot. I haven't hunted deer on hard before.
Speaker 1: I kind of would go about it different now now
Speaker 1: that I kind of understand how they do what they
Speaker 1: do and what their tolerances are.
Speaker 2: The thing about about muzzlerter like flint lock musslater hunting
Speaker 2: is there's a set of challenges to get close to
Speaker 2: a deer with get to get within range. And then
Speaker 2: once you get in range and it comes time to shoot,
Speaker 2: there's like a another You open up the door and
Speaker 2: there's another set of challenges there.
Speaker 1: We the the hammer cocking on those things. We are
Speaker 1: they crept up on one, uh, crept up on a
Speaker 1: mule deer and couldn't really determine, but it seems like
Speaker 1: the hammer cocking, Yeah, spooked it. It's loud. What I
Speaker 1: started doing now is our cock it ahead of time,
Speaker 1: but pulling the set triggers loud.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the cocks. The pulling the hammerbags loud. The
Speaker 2: set triggers loud. And then just like these evenings, the
Speaker 2: few evenings we've been sitting out here, it's just so quiet,
Speaker 2: like the wind dies down. Yeah, and you could hear
Speaker 2: a pin drop. Would muzzleloaders hunt with the set trigger,
Speaker 2: everything's just like down to the hair trigger.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I've never in all the reading I've
Speaker 1: done about hunt with flint locks, I have no idea
Speaker 1: what you must have because even when you're like bushwhacking
Speaker 1: another person, there's no way you were cocking that yeah
Speaker 1: thing bag.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I wonder what they did back in the day.
Speaker 4: I kept thinking of that lasting mole can scene.
Speaker 2: This old trip. Oh yeah, he's he cuts off the
Speaker 2: helk a couple.
Speaker 1: There's a thing that that about those flint locks like
Speaker 1: to give you a sense of how stealthy people were.
Speaker 1: There's a thing we talked about this in the We
Speaker 1: talked about this in our Long Hunters audiobook that they
Speaker 1: would you would more be looking when you're trying to
Speaker 1: find someone or check for people going through the woods.
Speaker 1: You'd be more looking for the barrel, looking for that big, long,
Speaker 1: straight barrel. You're more likely to see the barrel than
Speaker 1: the dude holding it, and you look for that.
Speaker 2: Straight straight lines. You'd look for the.
Speaker 1: Straight line, try to in order to try to find somebody.
Speaker 1: Is your soose. There's no way someone's taking stealth that seriously.
Speaker 1: And then it's going to click click. He's probably laying
Speaker 1: there at that set trigger engaged.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just breathe on that, you know, and.
Speaker 1: Just protecting it so it does nothing. Breathes on it.
Speaker 1: I've two times muffed up messing with the set trigger. Yeah,
Speaker 1: once something with you and once here muffed up like
Speaker 1: hitting the set trigger and then getting your finger around
Speaker 1: because once that, once you do the set trigger. That
Speaker 1: thing is on. I don't know what it is. Ounces Yeah,
Speaker 1: so getting your finger it definitely can't be doing with
Speaker 1: a glove, getting the set trigger and then bringing your
Speaker 1: finger up and it's a weird little space and just
Speaker 1: you just and also two times into the air yep,
Speaker 1: or I even got the because you're just trying to
Speaker 1: find the trigger, you know, and it's got that little
Speaker 1: that little teeny because there's a trigger guard and it's
Speaker 1: got two triggers in it. So picture your trigger guard
Speaker 1: as two triggers, one big, one little, and you do
Speaker 1: the one. There's not a lot of room in there,
Speaker 1: for there's not a lot of room in front of
Speaker 1: the regular trigger.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So even just trying to get your finger up in
Speaker 1: the right neighborhood shoots the damn gun off for me
Speaker 1: because I don't do it enough.
Speaker 2: Well, we need to get you is uh like a
Speaker 2: the I forget what the Thompsons used to make one
Speaker 2: called a Pennsylvania Hunter and it was just one trigger.
Speaker 1: Well here's what I'm getting. I'm broadcasting this out into
Speaker 1: the world because then I'm willing to pay for it.
Speaker 1: Let me know if you're my man, if you're a
Speaker 1: gun maker, I'm getting a here's what I want because
Speaker 1: because the rules where I'm at, I need an exposed
Speaker 1: hammer percussion cap, not an inline exposed hammer percussion cap.
Speaker 1: Single trigger muzzleoader.
Speaker 2: Yep, there's some good muzzle I want to shoot.
Speaker 1: I want to shoot Pirate X or Triple seven and
Speaker 1: I would I'd like to shoot conicals out of it,
Speaker 1: which is one less thing because like normally, when you load,
Speaker 1: like in the old oldie days, when you load a
Speaker 1: flint lock, you pour your powder charge down the barrel
Speaker 1: and then you got to take a piece of what's
Speaker 1: called the patch, so the ball doesn't grab the ball
Speaker 1: doesn't grab the lands and the barrel that well, So
Speaker 1: what you do is you wrap the ball in a
Speaker 1: greased patch, and that grease patch is kind of like
Speaker 1: you're wadding or like it. Yeah, yeah, and that is
Speaker 1: what helps throw a spiral on it when it comes
Speaker 1: out that patch. So if you shoot there, they make
Speaker 1: these bullets that you don't need the patch. I want
Speaker 1: a gun and I don't want any bullshit someone saying like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's you know, subma whatever, like peep site, single trigger
Speaker 1: shoots conicles. The barrels spiraled for kind of twisted for conicles,
Speaker 1: percussion cap.
Speaker 2: There you go, that's what I want.
Speaker 4: How far are they shooting? I'm going you mentioned it.
Speaker 2: How far are they shooting modern muzzle lators that would
Speaker 2: be under regulation in Montana like the.
Speaker 1: Bes knees the way the right spelled here, Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: one hundred yards because you can use the optic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that can't use like the fancy in lines here.
Speaker 2: So that's the limited states stay. Also, an optic is
Speaker 2: real helpful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, an optic helps you out a lot. When we
Speaker 1: did when we did long in our Long Hunters audiobook
Speaker 1: about the Daniel Boone and the Hide Hunters, Like I'd
Speaker 1: always had this question about how good were guys, Like
Speaker 1: how good really were guys with with flintlocks? You know,
Speaker 1: because in the mythology there's like, you know, old tick liquor,
Speaker 1: like it could shoot a tick off a deer shooting
Speaker 1: balls and hitting a hatchet blade and splitting the ball
Speaker 1: and killing two guys, you know, like whatever, all these
Speaker 1: accounts lasting Mohicans, these like three hundred yard running shots
Speaker 1: through the woods, you know, hitting guys, Like how good
Speaker 1: they were? So when we were working on that, me
Speaker 1: and Randall got into the question of like trying to
Speaker 1: find accounts of like what really could be done with
Speaker 1: the flint lock. Yeah, you know. And similarly, now that
Speaker 1: we're coming out with our Mountain Man one, we're kind
Speaker 1: of like, how really were they catching bab Like like
Speaker 1: what were the set Like how did they catch beaver
Speaker 1: in the mountain beyond the lower kind of yeah, like
Speaker 1: beyond the like oh they did this, that and the
Speaker 1: other thing. And you're reading like, I don't think that's
Speaker 1: what they did, you know, it doesn't make sense. And
Speaker 1: I don't think they were splitting shots against hatchets and
Speaker 1: killing two guys like waiting for like the Indian to
Speaker 1: hold his hatchet up and then he hit his blade
Speaker 1: and he killed.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So there's these shooting contests that we talked about in
Speaker 1: that long hundred piece. You can just go by it
Speaker 1: in the you know, it's a it's an audio books,
Speaker 1: you can purchase it. There's these guys called Uh, there's
Speaker 1: these real bad bad dudes Brady's Rangers, and like these
Speaker 1: are bad dudes.
Speaker 2: Like bad like badass or yeah bad like they're both
Speaker 2: doing outlaw.
Speaker 1: There were some bad dude they were like he had
Speaker 1: some so they were like along the Ohio River in
Speaker 1: the mid seventeen hundreds when tribes would cross like the
Speaker 1: Shawnee and people would come from the north across the
Speaker 1: river and raidss in West Virginia, yep, raid settlements in Kentucky.
Speaker 1: These he had this collection of he had this collection
Speaker 1: of woodsmen and hunters that he formed into this like
Speaker 1: kind of almost like this little bit of a It
Speaker 1: was almost like a paramilitary special forces unite. And they
Speaker 1: would get on their trail and track them and they'd
Speaker 1: track them back across the Ohio or they'd ambush them,
Speaker 1: like they'd find canoes part hidden they like the Shawne
Speaker 1: would sink canoes now and then like they'd cross the
Speaker 1: Ohio and sink their canoes and then go raid. So
Speaker 1: these rangers would wait at river crossings and stuff, and
Speaker 1: they raised some help, but they oftentimes like they oftentimes
Speaker 1: like got their man, but then they got some other
Speaker 1: guys too. They were they had a reputation for being
Speaker 1: somewhat indiscriminate in their pursuits and if they were tracking
Speaker 1: someone ran to somebody else. Anyways, there's some bad dudes
Speaker 1: and they were considered like crack shooters, and there's some
Speaker 1: accounts of them competing against regular soldiers in shooting contests,
Speaker 1: and they would clean their clock, but they would make
Speaker 1: a mark on a tree. They would make a mark
Speaker 1: on a tree the size of a dollar bill, which
Speaker 1: was the we have the dimensions on it. It's not
Speaker 1: quite like our dollar bill today. But you're basically making
Speaker 1: a hatchet slash in a tree like a bill, and
Speaker 1: then at sixty paces and they could put most but
Speaker 1: not all of those balls into that mark. Regular soldiers
Speaker 1: could not. So that gives you an idea of like
Speaker 1: what really was what they were really doing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's the same the soldiers and the the
Speaker 4: bad boys are using the same.
Speaker 1: No, so the soldiers have way better just wait because
Speaker 1: they're hunting with the hunting rifles. There was at that
Speaker 1: time people weren't the backwoodsman. It's kind of funny. The
Speaker 1: backwoodsmen were getting into rifled barrels, and they were getting
Speaker 1: into lighter calibers, smaller balls and rifling, and soldiers were
Speaker 1: oftentimes given these smooth bares, and like the rifling kind
Speaker 1: of came from a different direction of how guys caught
Speaker 1: on it. So these guys were shooting like pretty sophisticated
Speaker 1: but oftentimes home like handmade guns.
Speaker 4: Yeah, customized customer out.
Speaker 1: Wow, where you're actually taking a bar in, rolling that
Speaker 1: bar to make the barrel, like hammering it out, rolling it,
Speaker 1: smoothing it out, cutting the lands and grooves and cutting
Speaker 1: the grooves into it. Whole thing all made by.
Speaker 2: Hand, understanding their tool.
Speaker 1: But like, how good could you be, because like they were,
Speaker 1: I think of how inconsistent gunpowder is. You're pouring shot
Speaker 1: by hand, right, it's you know, it's just a lot
Speaker 1: of inconsistencies. But there's the mythology is how good these
Speaker 1: guys were these flint locks. But and it's still impressive,
Speaker 1: but they weren't like you know, in our reachar. It's
Speaker 1: just like for someone to hit to hit a deer
Speaker 1: at two hundred yards was really something that was really
Speaker 1: something with a flint lock, but shooting at shooting at
Speaker 1: sixty paces was like pretty what you were after, which
Speaker 1: is very similar, Like it's like not too terribly far
Speaker 1: off from what you're looking for now. Yeah, a flint lock,
Speaker 1: and that's putting them into ah, you know, and that's
Speaker 1: putting them into a something about the size of a bill.
Speaker 1: They would shoot further distances at the head of a
Speaker 1: shooting at the head the top of a keg, which
Speaker 1: is so it's about an eight inch circle. They would
Speaker 1: set up and you would They would set up and
Speaker 1: go a little farther and try to put it into
Speaker 1: an eight inch circle. So they weren't miracle workers with
Speaker 1: those things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just knew the tool, knew the rifle very well.
Speaker 1: I could definitely see like I was telling myself, I'm
Speaker 1: going to do this but now, but recognizing I'm probably
Speaker 1: lying to myself, I was like, man, I should just
Speaker 1: do it where for like a bunch of years going forward,
Speaker 1: I only hunt with that freaking flint lock.
Speaker 2: That's all I touch. Tough guys to do it.
Speaker 1: Just be like, yeah, Jim Becktel yep, just be like
Speaker 1: I'm gonna humpt if I like, I'm only like like
Speaker 1: same way like certain dudes like cam Agnes, he just
Speaker 1: huntsed a bow, he don't hunt the gun. Doesn't do it,
Speaker 1: and be like I only hunt with the flint lock
Speaker 1: until I get that thing mastered.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'd always have to be in that one twenty
Speaker 2: hundred yards zone.
Speaker 1: No, sure, I don't give a shit. Yeah, just get
Speaker 1: where I'm like Joe flint Lock Man or Steve flint Lock.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna actually do that. But if I was
Speaker 1: cooler than I am, that's what I would do.
Speaker 2: He had more time, That's what I would do. See
Speaker 2: this book, Old Grizzly. This book is phenomenal.
Speaker 1: I'm only pointing this book out because this guy just
Speaker 1: put together it was like, it's like a journal. Did
Speaker 1: you put together? It's self published.
Speaker 2: Journals.
Speaker 1: Yep, Old Grizzly to a better understanding of life on
Speaker 1: the frontier?
Speaker 2: Is that him?
Speaker 1: That's Old Grizzly. So this guy's later and he's a
Speaker 1: grizz He was hunting grizzlies in the cell kirks.
Speaker 2: Oh nice, and.
Speaker 1: Uh, it's phenomenal man. You know, we do Steve Reid's books,
Speaker 1: so you ain't got to We even have a little
Speaker 1: I don't have it with me, but there's a thing
Speaker 1: that goes it's time.
Speaker 2: Oh you have it.
Speaker 1: You play it into my Endo SAT's headphones. It's time
Speaker 1: for Steve Lee's books.
Speaker 2: So you ain't got to.
Speaker 1: See what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Old.
Speaker 1: So it's a series we do where I read a
Speaker 1: book and I just find the good parts can tell
Speaker 1: you about them. Yeah, and then you ain't got to
Speaker 1: read it. You ain't got it because I already read it,
Speaker 1: and I told you all the good parts.
Speaker 2: Got more time to shoot your flint lock.
Speaker 1: Yep, you ready for a couple of these?
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: In the winter, we often hunted muskrats with long spear
Speaker 1: we had made from a quarter inch round iron rod.
Speaker 1: It had a sharp barb on the spear end and
Speaker 1: a round wood handle fastened on the other end. When
Speaker 1: the ice would bear our weight, we would go out
Speaker 1: to their houses and shove the spear through the center
Speaker 1: of each house. The houses were made of grass and
Speaker 1: mud from the edge of the lake and were easily penetrated.
Speaker 1: We seldom missed getting at least one from each place
Speaker 1: we tried. The spear was sharp and it made a
Speaker 1: clean cut in the pelt, which did not depreciate its value.
Speaker 2: Dang, that's cool. What year was this?
Speaker 1: I'll get you arrested. Don't do that now, So I'm trying.
Speaker 1: So he was running around in uh old grizzly here
Speaker 1: one second, Old Grizzly killed fifty six grizzly bears in
Speaker 1: Western Canada, all the Selkirks between eighteen ninety five and
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty four. Then he went back in nineteen thirty
Speaker 1: five and killed another one. So most of this action
Speaker 1: is occurring in the mid like like well, most of
Speaker 1: the action is occurring in the early nineteen hundreds.
Speaker 2: Okay, you can't do that now, you can't.
Speaker 1: Go can't gig muskrats anymore through the roof of their house.
Speaker 2: Ready for this?
Speaker 1: Yes, directly he's talking about and pike, spear and fish
Speaker 1: if no, Okay, directly he's talking about they go out.
Speaker 1: They'd go out to spear northerns Okay for commercial uh
Speaker 1: for commercial sale. But here's an interesting bit. The highest
Speaker 1: price we got for our fish was around four cents
Speaker 1: a pound, and that was for black bass, large mouths.
Speaker 1: So in those days they were spearing large mouths through
Speaker 1: the ice and sell them for four bucks for selling
Speaker 1: them for four cents a pound on the commercial market.
Speaker 1: So you would go into a fish market in those
Speaker 1: years and you could buy large mouth bass. You could
Speaker 1: buy speared large mouth bass and bring it home to eat.
Speaker 2: At the table.
Speaker 1: In the fall of the year, we would make a
Speaker 1: few dollars by what we called pulling trees. Settlers living
Speaker 1: on the prairie would come to town and hire boys
Speaker 1: to pull up small cottonwood seedlings, which grew on the
Speaker 1: sand bars along the river. The settlers planted the seedlings
Speaker 1: around their homes to start a windbreak. Some settlers had
Speaker 1: extra land given to them by the government provided they
Speaker 1: planted it with trees, and we also supplied seedling trees
Speaker 1: for such planting. The seedlings were usually about ten inches
Speaker 1: long and grew in clean sand from seeds washed there
Speaker 1: from the previous season. It was easy for even a
Speaker 1: small boy to pull up a dozen or more at
Speaker 1: a time. We tied them in bunches of a thousand,
Speaker 1: for which we received twenty cents. We considered this an
Speaker 1: easy way to make money.
Speaker 4: Wonder what's in flat like what would the math beyond that?
Speaker 4: Like what's twenty cents nowadays? And from nineteen twenty like
Speaker 4: a hundred bucks?
Speaker 2: You want to know what else he would do for money? Yep.
Speaker 1: Sometimes the settler wanted maple seeds to plant, We supplied them. No,
Speaker 1: he did all his hunting in Western Canada, but grew
Speaker 1: up in the Midwest Okay. Sometimes the settler wanted maple
Speaker 1: seeds to plant. We supplied them, but it was hard
Speaker 1: work to get them. We first had to chop down
Speaker 1: a tree and then strip the seeds from the limbs,
Speaker 1: and they usually were so firmly attached that it was
Speaker 1: a case of pulling off one seed at a time.
Speaker 1: The settlers paid us one dollar for a gunny sack
Speaker 1: full of these maple seeds. We noticed that some of
Speaker 1: the sacks were larger than others, but soon got over
Speaker 1: that difficulty by filling up the bottom of the big
Speaker 1: sacks with leaves.
Speaker 2: That's called cheating, dirty or just opportunistic. You get seven
Speaker 2: dollars fifty cents. Oh, Zoey got under ten bucks for
Speaker 2: a thousand cottonwoods.
Speaker 1: My kid went to a turkey shoot at the bow range,
Speaker 1: and I was trying to explain to him that when
Speaker 1: I was a kid, a turkey shoot, Like now you'll
Speaker 1: shoot targets to win a frozen turkey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I used to do that.
Speaker 1: Well, when I was a boy, you could go down
Speaker 1: to our gun range and there was an actual turkey shot.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, behind a sand They put a turkey behind
Speaker 1: a sandbar, and well you just shoot. You had to
Speaker 1: have twenty two and hit it head its head.
Speaker 2: Whoever got it got the turn.
Speaker 1: That's dodging around back there with just his head sticking
Speaker 1: up out of a sandbar. I was so little, I
Speaker 1: didn't do it, but it was the thing, huh, he said.
Speaker 1: He's talking about these guys going to a turkey shoot.
Speaker 1: It was always an interesting sight to watch these old
Speaker 1: timers load their rifles at the turkey shoot, which was
Speaker 1: an annual affair at home. They were all good shots too,
Speaker 1: and never never failed to get a turkey. The men
Speaker 1: would lie up along the river bank and shoot at
Speaker 1: a turkey place with its feet tied together on the
Speaker 1: shore some distance away. The shots were ten cents and
Speaker 1: the bird was yours if you hit it anywhere.
Speaker 2: Sounds like a good deal.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think if I'm gonna tell you about
Speaker 1: any more of these, you know what he gets into.
Speaker 1: He winds up having exposure. This is the last thing
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you. I'm run on the show. He
Speaker 1: winds up having exposure to you know, the guy that
Speaker 1: killed Jesse James.
Speaker 2: Oh, kind of backstabby Robert Ford.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he has some details about when the killing of
Speaker 1: Robert Ford. Mister Ford was standing at the bar talking
Speaker 1: to a man about contributing some money to a fund.
Speaker 1: He was raising to bury one of the dance hall
Speaker 1: girls who had just died. As four turned from the bar,
Speaker 1: he called a greeting to O'Kelly, that's who killed Robert Ford.
Speaker 1: He called a greeting to O'Kelly, who was only about
Speaker 1: five feet away, without saying a word. O'Kelly pulled up
Speaker 1: the gun and fired a blast the buckshot from both barrels,
Speaker 1: which blew away half of Bob Ford's head.
Speaker 2: Oh, what's called a greeting? Mean?
Speaker 1: Just to listen, I'm only on page twenty seven. I've
Speaker 1: read the whole thing.
Speaker 2: It's a heavy hitting the whole way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, look at these Look at all these highlights I
Speaker 1: got in mind.
Speaker 2: Wow, I don't got to read it anymore.
Speaker 1: Though, you don't need to read it because now you
Speaker 1: know the main good parts.
Speaker 2: What's called a greeting? Mean?
Speaker 1: Well, he wanted to make it so, he wanted to
Speaker 1: make so Jesse James gets killed by Robert Ford. It's
Speaker 1: kind of a trader, yeah, and in this guy around town,
Speaker 1: it's kind of local bad guy around town wants to
Speaker 1: make a name for himself. He wants to kill Robert
Speaker 1: Ford to make a name for himself. He doesn't get
Speaker 1: any trouble for it. Yeah, Robert Ford has a bar
Speaker 1: and I've heard other accounts that he took a bunch
Speaker 1: of h He took a bunch of pipe iron pipe,
Speaker 1: and cut it into little rings, and then chiseled those
Speaker 1: rings in the little slivers and actually funneled that down
Speaker 1: the barrel of a double barrel and shot Robert.
Speaker 2: Ford with that bunch of shrapnel. Wow.
Speaker 1: Some accounts have him cutting Robert Ford in half down
Speaker 1: at the waist, and some accounts his account has him
Speaker 1: cutting Robert Ford and half along the head.
Speaker 2: Jeez.
Speaker 1: He wound up dying a violent death.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh the other guy.
Speaker 1: He died of violent death. Yikes.
Speaker 4: It's all for today. Do you still think this was
Speaker 4: the worst trip you've ever been on?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, Yeah.
Speaker 1: This is a low point in my life.
Speaker 2: Really, That's what I try to think of other bad
Speaker 2: ones we've had fifty years.
Speaker 1: Is the lowest point in my life. Nothing to do
Speaker 1: with that up from here March. Yeah, nothing to do
Speaker 1: with that, Maggie. There's the lowest point in my life.
Speaker 1: There's it's just like, yeah, it's like I don't know
Speaker 1: what to do. I don't know how I can go
Speaker 1: home and be a father to my children. You know,
Speaker 1: I feel like he'll be like, you know, yeah, they'll
Speaker 1: be like I was raised by They'll they'll they'll grow
Speaker 1: up later in life, they'll they'll go to a therapist
Speaker 1: and they'll say, I was raised by a broken man.
Speaker 1: Were fine, I'd be like, he was fine until like
Speaker 1: December twenty fourth. After that he was.
Speaker 2: A broken make the shell of a man. He'll be like,
Speaker 2: what broke your old man? He'd be like the flint
Speaker 2: lock muscle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he got, he went down, he got knowing my
Speaker 1: mom didn't want him to do it, but he got
Speaker 1: that God damn flint lock.
Speaker 2: The first time there broken, second time, definitely broken.
Speaker 1: And he was never the same. He just took to
Speaker 1: the bottle, you know, Coca Cola with all next flip
Speaker 1: season when I'm flir like Joe, you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: hunting next year's flint lock season because I have already
Speaker 1: killed a buck during regular season with my flint lock.
Speaker 1: Because that's all you well, you don't know flint lock.
Speaker 1: But but that said, I am in the market for
Speaker 1: that that gun, that single trigger, percussion cap, long barreled,
Speaker 1: straight shooting Maxi ball gun and your gun makers out
Speaker 1: there all right. Thanks y'all get