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Speaker 1: This is the business of sports. Should Major League Baseball

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Speaker 1: shorten up the season? How do we present football to

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Speaker 1: the audience of the future. I don't think that most

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Speaker 1: players understand the power that they have. Michael vaugh The

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Speaker 1: future of IndyCar racing is looking bright. Scott Sash very

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Speaker 1: basic math here, more bidders means more money. Evan Nobody Williams.

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Speaker 1: The team value has essentially quadruples. And the leaders in

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Speaker 1: the sports industry time to bring in our guest, hal Steinbrunner,

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Speaker 1: National Hockey League Commissioner Gary Betman, Atlanta Braves president Derek Schiller,

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Speaker 1: Patriots President Jonathan Kraft. Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hello,

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Speaker 1: I'm Scott, I'm Evan, Novie Williams, and I'm Michael Barr.

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Speaker 1: And this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, where

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Speaker 1: we explore the big money issues in the world of sports.

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Speaker 1: In today. We begin with the major deal news of

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Speaker 1: the week. Nike has spend a multi year partnership with

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Speaker 1: Liverpool Football Club, replacing New Balance as the club sponsor

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Speaker 1: and official jersey provider. Right now, bar As you know

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Speaker 1: because we have discussed this before, the interesting part of

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Speaker 1: this story is not that Liverpool has a deal with Nike.

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Speaker 1: They struck that deal a while ago. At the time

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Speaker 1: New Balance the incumbent said, whoa, whoa, whoa, we have

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Speaker 1: the right to match any offer, right, So it was

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Speaker 1: sort of stuck in limbo while they went to court

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Speaker 1: to see who indeed could have this contract for the

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Speaker 1: Liverpool shirt sponsorship, the whole kit sponsorship. Well, the interesting

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Speaker 1: part in the sports business part of this that is

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Speaker 1: extremely interesting is that the judge ruled that there was

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Speaker 1: no way New Balance, even if the money was the same,

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Speaker 1: there was no way that New Balance could match Nike's offer.

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Speaker 1: And it comes from a marketing perspective because Nike's offer

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Speaker 1: promised to use quote global superstar athletes like Serena Williams,

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Speaker 1: Lebron James, and also influencers like Drake all Nike endorsers

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Speaker 1: in marketing the deal and words. And what people are

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Speaker 1: forgetting is that the marketing part of it is worth

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Speaker 1: a lot of money exactly. So now you wonder what

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Speaker 1: becomes of the language and all of these deals. How

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Speaker 1: do you account for one company's ability to use one

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Speaker 1: specific person or I mean, you really wonder, how do

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Speaker 1: you now draw up these contracts or do you just

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Speaker 1: say do you have to go the other way and

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Speaker 1: to say when we say match it's strictly on financial terms. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's the answer. Right. You need to be

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Speaker 1: more specific about the way this is because if you're

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Speaker 1: i mean very few and maybe Adidas is the only one.

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Speaker 1: If these are the new standard by which you know,

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Speaker 1: you compete for these things under the old you know

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Speaker 1: contract rubric, people are gonna be able to compete with

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Speaker 1: a New Balance can't offer the same marketing Oh, nobody can't.

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Speaker 1: Nobody can't exactly like he does some change to everything else.

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Speaker 1: Nobody exactly. Um. And you know this is a this

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Speaker 1: is a bummer for for New Balance on a number

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Speaker 1: of they got with Liverpool before or Liverpool became one

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Speaker 1: of the best, if not the best team, uh in

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Speaker 1: the world. Um and you know from from what you

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Speaker 1: know the court documents say Nike was offering less money, right,

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Speaker 1: this is you know, the New Balance had to open

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Speaker 1: its wallet to get this deal and and to try

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Speaker 1: to continue it. Um and yeah, and just by definition

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Speaker 1: of what Nike can do marketing wise, uh, they're now

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Speaker 1: on the outside. And we should also put out Lebron

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Speaker 1: James by the Way is also a part owner of

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Speaker 1: Liverpool as an investor in Fentway Sports Group, so he

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Speaker 1: certainly had a a rooting interest in this case. Let's

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Speaker 1: stare into American football now, where rookie coach Matt Rule

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Speaker 1: Is signed a seven year, sixty million dollar deal with

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Speaker 1: the Carolina Panthers to join the NFL's elite and become

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Speaker 1: one of the NFL's highest paid head coaches. I have

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Speaker 1: been salivating to be able to say the Rule is

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Speaker 1: the exception and now a finally what you really grown,

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Speaker 1: you fought in even gonna say I'm gonna make fun

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Speaker 1: of you next week from what we got on on

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Speaker 1: Thursday show, But for this one, I'm gonna let it

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Speaker 1: go from every everybody. If you want to left at

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Speaker 1: Michael Barr, tune into Thursday's show because he's got a

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Speaker 1: bar whopper, which which I love. But yes, Matt Rules

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Speaker 1: make it eight point six million dollars a year annually

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Speaker 1: and he's never been in NFL head coach. He might

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Speaker 1: even get more. So. This is the guy who coached

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Speaker 1: Baylor for the past two years. Had had a very

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Speaker 1: good year this year down in Texas. But yeah, his

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Speaker 1: his first ever head coaching contract in the NFL is

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Speaker 1: one of the richest in the league right now. Right So,

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Speaker 1: so he's sixth right now in in terms of where

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Speaker 1: coaches get paid, and the five above him Scott Michael,

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Speaker 1: some pretty big names here, Bill Belichick, Bird of M,

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Speaker 1: Pete Carroll, John Gruden. All five of those Super Bowl

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Speaker 1: winners have won Super Bowls exact we go, they've all

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Speaker 1: hoisted that trophy. Well, let me ask a questions, what

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Speaker 1: what change Matt rules mind of going to the New

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Speaker 1: York Giants? What did we just say eight point six

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Speaker 1: million dollars here? Yes, money certainly helps in and so

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a seven year, sixty million dollar deal,

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Speaker 1: right And according to ESPN, depending on how the team does,

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Speaker 1: that could even rise as much to to seventy million, right,

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Speaker 1: So he could even leap frog John Harbor and Sean

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Speaker 1: Payton on this list if the team hits all those metrics. Right,

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Speaker 1: So that's both the both the total dollars and the

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Speaker 1: length of the contract that that's a pretty lucrative deal.

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Speaker 1: Worth pointing out that the Panthers are owned by David Tepper,

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Speaker 1: multibillionaire just bought the team for two point three billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: Certainly not afraid to make investment. But again, let's look

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Speaker 1: at the business part of the sports business. One of

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Speaker 1: the basic tenants of business. More bidders means more money.

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Speaker 1: Having the giants lay in wait certainly push some sense

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Speaker 1: of urgency on David Tepper to get the person he wanted.

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Speaker 1: And apparently it was one of those situations where it

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Speaker 1: was we're not gonna let you leave. You're you're my guy,

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Speaker 1: and we're not letting you leave, and we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: this done. And they did. And then I would say, also,

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Speaker 1: how many times have we talked about the show about stability,

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Speaker 1: right and the example I always go back to, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Utah Jazz and how Jerry Sloan never won the NBA Championship,

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Speaker 1: came close, lost in the finals to Michael Jordan a

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Speaker 1: couple of times, you know, but every every fan will

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Speaker 1: be like, well, we never won. I'm sorry you lost

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Speaker 1: one of the greatest, two of the greatest teams of

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Speaker 1: all time. You know, you had stocked in him alone

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Speaker 1: and you just couldn't beat Michael Jordan's But Jerry soon

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Speaker 1: didn't get fired that. It just didn't operate that way.

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Speaker 1: The the the owner of the team, Larry Miller, at

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Speaker 1: the time, he backed his coach, and everybody who played

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Speaker 1: for the Utah Jazz knew that the coach had the

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Speaker 1: owners support. And it's important. We've seen all these teams

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Speaker 1: that change coaches every year. They never win. Right If

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Speaker 1: I play for the Carolina Panthers right now and I

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Speaker 1: have a dispute, even though it's a rookie coach, whatever,

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Speaker 1: If I have a dispute with Matt Rule next year

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Speaker 1: and he is backed by a however many years seventy

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Speaker 1: million dollar deal guaranteed, unlike the player contracts guaranteed, do

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Speaker 1: you get a sense that that coach ain't going anywhere.

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Speaker 1: I better figure out a way to make it work,

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Speaker 1: or else my Tokas is the one going to get

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Speaker 1: shipped out. Another great way to put that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we talked about this about the Steelers a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks ago when we had Jim Rooney on right, the Steelers,

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Speaker 1: and you mentioned this, Michael blew my mind. They've had

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Speaker 1: many coaches. They've had three coaches since nine Right, it's

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Speaker 1: it's Noal, it's Cower and and now it's Tomlin. Right,

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Speaker 1: and they've been one of the most successful franchises in

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Speaker 1: NFL in that entire you know, fifty sixty years span.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of which, by the way, the Giants are looking

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Speaker 1: like they're gonna hire Joe Judge. Who is the Patriots Court.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's going who? Yeah, he's like what who? Probably not

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Speaker 1: going to get married and it all faired. Does Matt

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Speaker 1: Rule to me? Was who? Also? Yeah, I don't know

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Speaker 1: who Baylor's coach, But I mean I knew more of

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Speaker 1: Matt Rule than I did of Joe Judge. Okay, but

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Speaker 1: you know, so you could say New York and the

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Speaker 1: Judge blast what what? Okay? Okay, Hey, I'm surprised nobody

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Speaker 1: said anything about took us. But what do we know

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Speaker 1: about Rule and Judge? What are they having common bar?

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Speaker 1: They have never been a coach? Keep going, keep going,

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Speaker 1: keep going. I'm leading to a segue here. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: see where you're going with this year. And yes, I

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Speaker 1: do have to ask this, which brings up the situation, Uh,

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Speaker 1: what has happened in the NFL of getting minority head coach?

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Speaker 1: Evan brought up Runey. I mean we had him on

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Speaker 1: the show. We have the Rooney Rule. I just it's

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Speaker 1: not you have the Rooney rule, but it's not if

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Speaker 1: it doesn't result in hiring, what good is it? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we can give the background real quick. In two

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Speaker 1: thousand three, you know, realizing that there was a big

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Speaker 1: problem in terms of you know, giving minority coaches of

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Speaker 1: color in the ranks of the NFL, you know, the

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Speaker 1: NFL passed a rule essentially saying that teams had to

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Speaker 1: interview at least one candidate of color for every open

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Speaker 1: head coaching rule and right that since been expanded beyond

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Speaker 1: just coaching too. I think all the different teams, front

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Speaker 1: office levels of power, etcetera. UM. But you know we

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Speaker 1: sit here now sixteen years after that rule was passed. Uh,

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Speaker 1: if the Giants and and and the last open vacancy,

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Speaker 1: the Brown if they both hire white coaches, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: end up with four minority coaches in the league, right,

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Speaker 1: one of which Ron Rivera, who is just hired by

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Speaker 1: the Redskins. UM. And if you dive into the numbers,

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Speaker 1: it does not seem as though the Rooney rule is

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Speaker 1: having the effect that the NFL maybe thought it was

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Speaker 1: going to have back when right, and we've heard a

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Speaker 1: lot about you know, when the when the Oakland Raiders

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Speaker 1: hired John Gruden for example. Right, they were talking about

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Speaker 1: John Ruden being there guy the whole time, right, and

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Speaker 1: and to get it to satisfy the Rooney rule. Right,

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Speaker 1: they reportedly interviewed one of their own assistance very quickly,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of just a symbolic talk that they

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Speaker 1: did it. Um. I think there's a lot of problems

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Speaker 1: with the rule itself, and I imagine you know that

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of talk this week about it. There

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Speaker 1: may be some changes happening. What do I talk about

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Speaker 1: all the time? People process and product? Right? Okay, So

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Speaker 1: the product is the coaches. They're all qualified. Obviously, you

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Speaker 1: have many many fine the people they are who they are.

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Speaker 1: The process, let's again look at the process. You have

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Speaker 1: assistant coaches right now on playoff teams that theoretically and

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Speaker 1: realistically cannot take time away from their team to go

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Speaker 1: interview for a job. And Eric the enemy is one

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Speaker 1: of them. That is when everybody is pointing to right now,

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Speaker 1: he's working everything. What about the enemy? Okay, But so

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Speaker 1: you have to change the process. First of all, make

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Speaker 1: a process that works for all. And then second of all,

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Speaker 1: I think you've got to somehow at these owners meetings

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Speaker 1: you've got to get into. I think it's going to change,

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Speaker 1: by the way, as the owners change, as things change.

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Speaker 1: Didn't attempt for this time, but I think it's going

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Speaker 1: to change. But you here, I just wanted, you know,

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Speaker 1: the best person, well the best person, but that should

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Speaker 1: that not result in more women being hired, more minorities

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Speaker 1: being hired? You really want the best person. We're still

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Speaker 1: not seeing that reflected in the numbers. Well, you brought

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Speaker 1: up just simply about the using the math involved here.

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Speaker 1: The end of the season is obviously until the Super Bowl,

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Speaker 1: which is around the beginning of February. But once someone

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Speaker 1: fires a coach, they want to fill that. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean as the playoffs are going on. So it's I

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Speaker 1: don't see how that problem is going to get solved.

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Speaker 1: Every year, Richard Lapchick, the human rights activists and professor

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Speaker 1: down in uh in Central Florida, puts out report cards,

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Speaker 1: gender and racial report cards for all the big leagues.

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Speaker 1: The NFL, the most recent report card came out a

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Speaker 1: few months ago, had its worst racial and gender hiring

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Speaker 1: number that it's received in the past fifteen years. Put

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Speaker 1: that into perspective, Yeah, the NFL is going the wrong way.

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Speaker 1: I think there's certainly an argument to be made that

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of this onus is on owners themselves, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, if owners can fix this very quickly, right,

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Speaker 1: Rooney rule or no Rooney rule, whatever the way they

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Speaker 1: want to change it or not. You know, there necessarily

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Speaker 1: shouldn't have to be a rule here to make this happen. Right,

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Speaker 1: So it's just good business. Yes, I think it's good business.

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Speaker 1: And and clearly, you know, I think there's a problem

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Speaker 1: right now at the end of NFL ownership level. I

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Speaker 1: will also say, you know, college ranks have a big

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Speaker 1: role in this as well. Right, Colleges don't do much better,

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Speaker 1: if better at all, then the NFL does in terms

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Speaker 1: of promoting coaches of color. And as we see Matt

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Speaker 1: Rule a perfect example. Know, oftentimes a head coaching vacancy

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Speaker 1: in the NFL, they're looking down who the bright minds

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Speaker 1: are in college? Right? So you know it's not just

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Speaker 1: the NFL, it's also college. But the feeder system is

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Speaker 1: also largely white, and that's continuing to feed the top level.

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Speaker 1: I like Amy Tress, she said it. She never should

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Speaker 1: have been the Rooney roll. It should have been the

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Speaker 1: Al Davis rule. Uh, way back when Al Davis not

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Speaker 1: only did he hire a female CEO well ahead of

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Speaker 1: his time, he's also had black coaches. Uh. Maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: it should be the Al Davis ruler, or it wasn't

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Speaker 1: just when babe, or maybe it was maybe Al realized

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Speaker 1: the whole mantra of just win, baby, you know how

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Speaker 1: you could just win you get the best and that's

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Speaker 1: a wide pool of candidates diversity, different thoughts. Maybe Al

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Speaker 1: was onto something back for folks who are curious about,

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Speaker 1: you know, diving deeper into the Runey rule. The Undefeated

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Speaker 1: did a really interesting data dive into it earlier this year,

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Speaker 1: um earlier last year nineteen, and one of the things

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Speaker 1: that they found is that, you know, a lot of

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Speaker 1: the coaches of color who get hired are often getting

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Speaker 1: the absolute worst jobs, right, So they have much less

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Speaker 1: job security because they end up on teams that are

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Speaker 1: you know, two and fourteen or three and thirteen, and

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Speaker 1: they end up washing out of that job quicker because

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Speaker 1: the team is is just bad this year not great.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, there's a lot of like different tiers here.

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Speaker 1: Just check. There's a lot of different tiers here in

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Speaker 1: terms of not just hiring a coach, but the types

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Speaker 1: of jobs that they get, the job security they get,

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Speaker 1: the way they can get rehired again in the future.

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Speaker 1: Before we wrap this up, you you've touched on it briefly, Scott,

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Speaker 1: in our lifetime, well we ever see a female head

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Speaker 1: coach for in the NFL or for a men's collegiate

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Speaker 1: football team football, I see. I was hoping you were

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Speaker 1: going to say, like all the major leagues, and I

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Speaker 1: was gonna say, yes, football, major football in my lifetime.

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Speaker 1: Since I'm X, no, it'll happen. I think in college,

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Speaker 1: long before it happens in the NFL. But I don't

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Speaker 1: see college possibly certainly lower tiers, maybe not Division one FBS,

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Speaker 1: but maybe in lower tiers. But yeah, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think basketball has done, I think a very good job

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Speaker 1: of very quickly promoting female com I think it might

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Speaker 1: not be that far. I wrote a column years ago

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Speaker 1: when the Knicks were at their well, I can't even

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Speaker 1: say lowest point. When the Knicks were low still low.

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Speaker 1: I was talking to Donnie Walsh, very well respected basketball executive,

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Speaker 1: and the Knicks had a coaching a coaching vacancy, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I said, uh, there's a qualified women's basketball coach at

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Speaker 1: the University of Tennessee. Y'all might have heard of her. Um,

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Speaker 1: how how about do we think perhaps that Donnie? And

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Speaker 1: then he said, you know you're gonna try and get

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Speaker 1: me in trouble. Like I'm like, I'm like, no, I'm

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Speaker 1: not trying to catch you in trouble. I'm just like

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Speaker 1: not looking at Pat something at all, not looking like

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Speaker 1: every every anybody I ever talked to, man, woman, play.

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Speaker 1: Anybody you talked to universally lauded Pat Summit as a

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Speaker 1: great basketball coach. Female, male, didn't matter. She was a

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Speaker 1: great basketball coach. Why was she never even interviewed for

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Speaker 1: a job. One of the best games ever in collegiate basketball, obviously,

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Speaker 1: when Pat Summit up against Gino Orema. Man, that was

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Speaker 1: that was that was must watch TV. I loved it,

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Speaker 1: So I agree with you. Uh. This is the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business of Sports podcast at Michael Bar Along with Scott

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Speaker 1: Sasnik and Evan Ovi Williams. We are here every Monday,

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Speaker 1: Wednesday and Thursday exploring the world of money and sports.

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Speaker 1: Turn us again. At the end of the week, we're

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Speaker 1: speaking with Ben Sterner, CEO, founder of the Leverage Agency,

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Speaker 1: he's bringing Harvard and Yale the Madison Spirit Guarden this week. Puckey,

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Speaker 1: you're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports on Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Radio around the world and online wherever you get your podcasts.