1 00:00:04,078 --> 00:00:06,518 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of My 2 00:00:06,718 --> 00:00:15,158 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey there, welcome back to another episode of 3 00:00:15,398 --> 00:00:18,918 Speaker 1: the Book of Joe Podcast. I am Tom Verducci and 4 00:00:18,998 --> 00:00:21,038 Speaker 1: I am with Joe Madden. How are you doing, Joe, 5 00:00:21,238 --> 00:00:24,318 Speaker 1: I'm doing wonderfully. You're stuck, not stuck, but you're there 6 00:00:24,318 --> 00:00:26,398 Speaker 1: in San Diego. I know you, Like we just talked about, 7 00:00:26,398 --> 00:00:28,158 Speaker 1: you never see the light of day. Nobody leaves the 8 00:00:28,278 --> 00:00:31,398 Speaker 1: hotel for three, possibly almost four days. It's kind of 9 00:00:31,438 --> 00:00:34,518 Speaker 1: a fun grind though. Yeah. This is the Winter Meetings 10 00:00:34,718 --> 00:00:37,918 Speaker 1: edition of the Book of Joe podcast, and you're right, 11 00:00:38,118 --> 00:00:40,358 Speaker 1: a lot of work gets done not in the lobby 12 00:00:40,518 --> 00:00:43,878 Speaker 1: but in the suites of these teams behind laptop computers. 13 00:00:43,918 --> 00:00:48,918 Speaker 1: But I wanted to start with a good human story, Joe, 14 00:00:48,958 --> 00:00:51,118 Speaker 1: because I think that's what our book is full of. 15 00:00:51,158 --> 00:00:54,558 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe. Of course we're talking about um. Yeah, 16 00:00:54,598 --> 00:00:58,038 Speaker 1: we love analytics, but we love people too. And the 17 00:00:58,078 --> 00:01:00,758 Speaker 1: story involves Dusty Baker. I mean, how can you not 18 00:01:00,918 --> 00:01:03,798 Speaker 1: have been happy for Dusty Baker, seventy three years old, 19 00:01:03,918 --> 00:01:06,798 Speaker 1: wins his first World Series as a manager. And I 20 00:01:06,838 --> 00:01:09,358 Speaker 1: want to know how this story will relate to you, Joe. 21 00:01:09,438 --> 00:01:11,558 Speaker 1: After winning the World series with the Cubs. I mean, 22 00:01:11,718 --> 00:01:14,878 Speaker 1: does the food taste better? Is the sky bluer? Is 23 00:01:14,998 --> 00:01:18,318 Speaker 1: life more joyful with that championship? And I was talking 24 00:01:18,318 --> 00:01:20,838 Speaker 1: to Dusty about that, And of course Dusty one as 25 00:01:20,878 --> 00:01:23,078 Speaker 1: a player, but this was the first time as a manager. 26 00:01:23,238 --> 00:01:25,598 Speaker 1: He said. The first thing he did pretty much when 27 00:01:25,638 --> 00:01:29,518 Speaker 1: he got home, was he went to visit the cemetery 28 00:01:29,598 --> 00:01:33,078 Speaker 1: where his deceased father and mother are buried. He said 29 00:01:33,118 --> 00:01:36,638 Speaker 1: his dad was a big lover of flowers. He brought 30 00:01:36,798 --> 00:01:39,078 Speaker 1: fresh flowers to the grave and as he said, I 31 00:01:39,118 --> 00:01:42,158 Speaker 1: had a conversation with them. And what he remembers was 32 00:01:42,238 --> 00:01:45,478 Speaker 1: when Dusty was the manager of the Giants in two 33 00:01:45,518 --> 00:01:48,038 Speaker 1: thousand and two and Joe Madden was sitting across the 34 00:01:48,078 --> 00:01:50,478 Speaker 1: field in the dugout as the Angels bench coach. And 35 00:01:50,518 --> 00:01:54,278 Speaker 1: of course the Giants infamously blew the leading game eight 36 00:01:54,358 --> 00:01:57,558 Speaker 1: and game eighth inning of Game six and lost Game seven. 37 00:01:57,758 --> 00:02:00,798 Speaker 1: And after that, Dusty's father told him, son, you'll probably 38 00:02:00,838 --> 00:02:04,318 Speaker 1: never win the World Series. And that was us these 39 00:02:04,358 --> 00:02:07,518 Speaker 1: dad's wave Johnny B. Baker Sr. Of motivating his son. 40 00:02:07,598 --> 00:02:09,598 Speaker 1: And I know, Joe you can relate to this. It was, 41 00:02:09,638 --> 00:02:13,398 Speaker 1: as Dusty calls negative motivation. So all these years later, 42 00:02:13,438 --> 00:02:17,038 Speaker 1: twenty years later, world Series winning manager of the Houston Astros, 43 00:02:17,038 --> 00:02:20,278 Speaker 1: this conversation he has with his departed father, He said, Dad, 44 00:02:20,718 --> 00:02:23,238 Speaker 1: I did it. I won the World Series. I just 45 00:02:23,318 --> 00:02:26,318 Speaker 1: thought that was so cool, bringing it first full circle. 46 00:02:26,918 --> 00:02:30,398 Speaker 1: The influences on our lives are always our influences, even 47 00:02:30,438 --> 00:02:32,958 Speaker 1: when they are gone. It's just a beautiful story. Uh, 48 00:02:32,958 --> 00:02:34,558 Speaker 1: And Joe, I want you to relate to it or 49 00:02:34,598 --> 00:02:37,118 Speaker 1: what it means when you do win that World championship. 50 00:02:37,118 --> 00:02:39,438 Speaker 1: I know you got one, as I mentioned a coach 51 00:02:39,478 --> 00:02:42,478 Speaker 1: with the Angels, but of course breaking eight year curse 52 00:02:42,558 --> 00:02:45,918 Speaker 1: with the Cubs as the manager in that's all relatable. 53 00:02:45,918 --> 00:02:48,558 Speaker 1: It's highly relatable. Actually, Um, you know, first of all, 54 00:02:48,598 --> 00:02:51,318 Speaker 1: it's it's always interesting when you're seventy years old, dust 55 00:02:51,318 --> 00:02:54,198 Speaker 1: the seventy plus, I'm almost there, and you talk about 56 00:02:54,198 --> 00:02:56,158 Speaker 1: your dad like your dad as though you were still 57 00:02:56,158 --> 00:02:57,958 Speaker 1: ten or twelve or eight years of age. And I 58 00:02:58,038 --> 00:03:00,038 Speaker 1: love that part of it. And yes, I did the 59 00:03:00,118 --> 00:03:02,558 Speaker 1: same thing. Actually I went to the grave site for 60 00:03:02,678 --> 00:03:05,478 Speaker 1: my dad, and my goals and answer buried around in 61 00:03:05,558 --> 00:03:08,238 Speaker 1: my grandparents are write down. The couple rows over. But 62 00:03:08,278 --> 00:03:10,038 Speaker 1: I cried, man, I cried as I was talking to 63 00:03:10,078 --> 00:03:12,998 Speaker 1: my dad in front of his tombstone several years ago. 64 00:03:13,518 --> 00:03:16,518 Speaker 1: Kind of wept over all that thing, winning the World 65 00:03:16,558 --> 00:03:18,718 Speaker 1: Series first time hundred eight years. You know, my dad 66 00:03:18,718 --> 00:03:21,918 Speaker 1: had challenged me, not necessarily verbally, but when I was 67 00:03:21,998 --> 00:03:24,118 Speaker 1: at Lafayette, when I was in the book, when I 68 00:03:24,158 --> 00:03:26,598 Speaker 1: decided to not participate in football anymore, and he kind 69 00:03:26,598 --> 00:03:28,598 Speaker 1: of got upset with me, and uh, but nevertheless, I 70 00:03:28,638 --> 00:03:30,158 Speaker 1: knew what I wanted to do with my life and 71 00:03:30,198 --> 00:03:33,118 Speaker 1: continued on and yeah, my goal was to when you did, 72 00:03:33,198 --> 00:03:35,558 Speaker 1: you didn't speak for a while, Joe. Kind of upset, 73 00:03:35,598 --> 00:03:37,718 Speaker 1: I think is a little bit of an understatement. Yes, 74 00:03:37,838 --> 00:03:40,478 Speaker 1: six months, about six months my dad didn't speak with me. 75 00:03:40,518 --> 00:03:43,318 Speaker 1: And uh, that's kind of difficult to even imagine based 76 00:03:43,358 --> 00:03:45,718 Speaker 1: on the relationship that we had had. Sam, I popped 77 00:03:45,758 --> 00:03:47,718 Speaker 1: in talk to me for about six months after I 78 00:03:47,718 --> 00:03:50,438 Speaker 1: retired from football, just to play baseball. But my goal 79 00:03:50,598 --> 00:03:52,598 Speaker 1: was to get there to the major leagues as a player, 80 00:03:52,838 --> 00:03:55,438 Speaker 1: never having realized that. Of course, coaching and managing or 81 00:03:55,438 --> 00:03:57,358 Speaker 1: it's a pretty nice other way to do it. So 82 00:03:57,678 --> 00:04:01,278 Speaker 1: you get to the Cubs in and or fifteen, have 83 00:04:01,318 --> 00:04:03,278 Speaker 1: a great year, and then all you keep hearing about 84 00:04:03,278 --> 00:04:04,998 Speaker 1: is that was a seven years and it became a 85 00:04:05,078 --> 00:04:07,558 Speaker 1: hundred eight years and uh never had hadn't been done 86 00:04:07,558 --> 00:04:09,918 Speaker 1: in over a century. And so when you're able to 87 00:04:10,078 --> 00:04:13,158 Speaker 1: be part of that particular moment, that's, um, it's not 88 00:04:13,278 --> 00:04:16,398 Speaker 1: imaginable really, it's I talked about me all your surrealism's 89 00:04:16,438 --> 00:04:19,318 Speaker 1: come true. There's one right there. To be able to 90 00:04:19,398 --> 00:04:21,918 Speaker 1: walk on that rainy field after the game in Cleveland 91 00:04:21,958 --> 00:04:23,838 Speaker 1: on Game seven with Ja there and going over to 92 00:04:23,878 --> 00:04:26,078 Speaker 1: talk to the boys in the press room like they're 93 00:04:26,198 --> 00:04:28,558 Speaker 1: they're actually the group on the field and it's raining 94 00:04:28,598 --> 00:04:31,758 Speaker 1: outside and just taking this all in one hopefully one 95 00:04:31,798 --> 00:04:34,798 Speaker 1: moment at a time. But insurpassable to to be to 96 00:04:34,958 --> 00:04:37,598 Speaker 1: arrive at that point in your career something you've always 97 00:04:37,638 --> 00:04:39,358 Speaker 1: wanted to do. I mean, yes they had done it 98 00:04:39,398 --> 00:04:41,038 Speaker 1: as a coach, but to be your own team as 99 00:04:41,038 --> 00:04:44,238 Speaker 1: a manager, holding your own baby, having that particular moment, 100 00:04:44,398 --> 00:04:47,118 Speaker 1: it's just it's beyond thought process. And and then I 101 00:04:47,158 --> 00:04:48,958 Speaker 1: had to share with my dad, had to I was 102 00:04:48,998 --> 00:04:50,998 Speaker 1: just there when I was back home and Sugarloaf for 103 00:04:50,998 --> 00:04:53,118 Speaker 1: for the summer in Hazleton. I stopped there before I 104 00:04:53,358 --> 00:04:55,078 Speaker 1: left to come back at her to visit with him. 105 00:04:55,118 --> 00:04:57,278 Speaker 1: But I've always had this conversation with my pop and 106 00:04:57,318 --> 00:04:59,318 Speaker 1: like we've talked about his hat still and my my 107 00:04:59,358 --> 00:05:02,038 Speaker 1: bag which is downstairs in the closet, my my backpack, 108 00:05:02,078 --> 00:05:04,478 Speaker 1: and uh so yeah, it's it's meaningful. It had to 109 00:05:04,518 --> 00:05:07,518 Speaker 1: be done. I know we heard every word and you gather, 110 00:05:07,638 --> 00:05:10,318 Speaker 1: you gain strength from that, and you're able to because 111 00:05:10,558 --> 00:05:12,558 Speaker 1: you know you're from you know who you are. You're 112 00:05:12,558 --> 00:05:15,278 Speaker 1: standing on the dirt, your dad's laying there right below you, 113 00:05:15,358 --> 00:05:17,718 Speaker 1: and you you know who you are. And uh that 114 00:05:17,798 --> 00:05:20,878 Speaker 1: was a very very profound moment for me. A great story. 115 00:05:20,918 --> 00:05:24,158 Speaker 1: Thanks for sharing that with all of our listeners. Um, 116 00:05:24,198 --> 00:05:26,358 Speaker 1: I thought it was important to start with that because Dusty, 117 00:05:26,398 --> 00:05:29,198 Speaker 1: to me is it's such a national treasure. I think 118 00:05:29,198 --> 00:05:31,558 Speaker 1: the baseball world and even people not who are not 119 00:05:31,638 --> 00:05:35,398 Speaker 1: baseball fans just so happy for him because of the 120 00:05:35,478 --> 00:05:38,198 Speaker 1: journey and he's given so much to this game and 121 00:05:38,238 --> 00:05:40,838 Speaker 1: now of course he's back to try to win another 122 00:05:40,838 --> 00:05:43,678 Speaker 1: one back to back. And Joe, you're one of the 123 00:05:43,678 --> 00:05:47,518 Speaker 1: twenty or so odd managers who were not successful defending 124 00:05:47,558 --> 00:05:52,038 Speaker 1: a championship. If Dusty Baker asked you, what's the hardest 125 00:05:52,078 --> 00:05:54,918 Speaker 1: part about bringing back pretty much the same group and 126 00:05:54,958 --> 00:05:57,838 Speaker 1: trying to win another one. How would you answer that? Yeah, 127 00:05:57,998 --> 00:05:59,718 Speaker 1: And that's what we talked about it again in the 128 00:05:59,718 --> 00:06:02,398 Speaker 1: book our reference seeing with first time I was feeling 129 00:06:02,398 --> 00:06:05,638 Speaker 1: with first time passion um again after Hunter eight years, 130 00:06:05,678 --> 00:06:07,438 Speaker 1: youngest team ever to do that. I mean, I was 131 00:06:07,478 --> 00:06:09,758 Speaker 1: really concerned going into the next year. You knew there 132 00:06:09,798 --> 00:06:11,238 Speaker 1: was going to be some kind of a hangover. I 133 00:06:11,278 --> 00:06:13,638 Speaker 1: know people don't like that, but I think in today's 134 00:06:13,678 --> 00:06:15,598 Speaker 1: game and the way the playoffs are set up and 135 00:06:15,598 --> 00:06:17,118 Speaker 1: how many games you have to win to get there 136 00:06:17,118 --> 00:06:19,718 Speaker 1: in the competition, et cetera, makes it even more difficult 137 00:06:19,718 --> 00:06:21,838 Speaker 1: now than it's ever been to repeat. So you have 138 00:06:21,958 --> 00:06:23,958 Speaker 1: to feel that first time vibe going on, and if 139 00:06:24,038 --> 00:06:26,078 Speaker 1: you can't, if you can't arrive at that internally, you 140 00:06:26,118 --> 00:06:28,118 Speaker 1: may do well, but it's hard to really get over 141 00:06:28,158 --> 00:06:29,918 Speaker 1: the top. And I think our game is the most 142 00:06:29,918 --> 00:06:32,438 Speaker 1: difficult one to repeat because of all the games involved 143 00:06:32,438 --> 00:06:34,798 Speaker 1: to get there. So from the beginning, I mean you 144 00:06:35,798 --> 00:06:38,118 Speaker 1: I wanted that. I said that early on. I said that. 145 00:06:38,158 --> 00:06:40,558 Speaker 1: I think in my first meeting with the boys in 146 00:06:41,118 --> 00:06:43,918 Speaker 1: seventeen was that exact phrase in order to get them 147 00:06:43,918 --> 00:06:46,558 Speaker 1: to try to understand that and within that um more 148 00:06:46,598 --> 00:06:50,198 Speaker 1: specifically UM with in dusty situation, and if I get 149 00:06:50,198 --> 00:06:52,318 Speaker 1: the opportunity again, you really have to get to the 150 00:06:52,358 --> 00:06:54,478 Speaker 1: guys that you know are your leadables, that you know 151 00:06:54,518 --> 00:06:56,198 Speaker 1: you are leaders, because they're the guys that have to 152 00:06:56,478 --> 00:06:59,158 Speaker 1: really get this done. Yankees were so successful with the 153 00:06:59,238 --> 00:07:02,678 Speaker 1: Jeter group and Pettit and Posada, Bernie Williams, that group 154 00:07:02,758 --> 00:07:05,358 Speaker 1: because those were that's those guys were they I think 155 00:07:05,398 --> 00:07:08,278 Speaker 1: constantly they're able to flush it and come back as 156 00:07:08,278 --> 00:07:10,358 Speaker 1: though they have never never done it before and attack 157 00:07:10,438 --> 00:07:12,238 Speaker 1: it with the same zeal. You see it with Tom Brady, 158 00:07:12,278 --> 00:07:14,398 Speaker 1: you saw it with Michael Jordan's Larry Bird. There's there's 159 00:07:14,398 --> 00:07:16,878 Speaker 1: there's freaks out there, man, There's the freaks out there 160 00:07:16,958 --> 00:07:20,238 Speaker 1: that are able to bring that fire, that original fire 161 00:07:20,318 --> 00:07:22,838 Speaker 1: with them annually even though they had just reached the 162 00:07:22,918 --> 00:07:24,878 Speaker 1: zine at the year before. So if there's some way 163 00:07:24,958 --> 00:07:27,238 Speaker 1: to point that out to the guys and really have 164 00:07:27,358 --> 00:07:29,638 Speaker 1: them buy into that concept or that thought, to me, 165 00:07:29,918 --> 00:07:32,118 Speaker 1: I believe that's the best and only way to go 166 00:07:32,158 --> 00:07:35,158 Speaker 1: about this. Uh. You know, I've never met pat Riley, 167 00:07:35,158 --> 00:07:37,438 Speaker 1: have read a lot of his stuff, Phil Jackson, etcetera. 168 00:07:37,558 --> 00:07:40,998 Speaker 1: But it's a combination of helping to set the mindset, 169 00:07:41,078 --> 00:07:43,718 Speaker 1: set the edge where yes, we got to attack it 170 00:07:43,758 --> 00:07:45,758 Speaker 1: as though it's never happened before. And then you have 171 00:07:45,798 --> 00:07:47,278 Speaker 1: to have a couple of animals on the team that 172 00:07:47,398 --> 00:07:50,078 Speaker 1: really bring up the best in the group and within 173 00:07:50,158 --> 00:07:52,638 Speaker 1: their practice and their daily zeal for the game and 174 00:07:52,638 --> 00:07:55,038 Speaker 1: their preparation and just everything they do on a daily 175 00:07:55,078 --> 00:07:57,958 Speaker 1: basis indicates I really want to do this again. So 176 00:07:58,238 --> 00:08:01,358 Speaker 1: maybe that's a non specific way of describing all this, 177 00:08:01,438 --> 00:08:03,918 Speaker 1: but those are the kind of things, the intangible components. 178 00:08:03,918 --> 00:08:06,678 Speaker 1: Sometimes you unexplainable things that have to be given some 179 00:08:06,758 --> 00:08:08,718 Speaker 1: kind of a quality, like a life like quality, in 180 00:08:08,838 --> 00:08:11,158 Speaker 1: order to re attain what you have done before. I 181 00:08:11,158 --> 00:08:13,198 Speaker 1: think that's the most important thing to do. Yeah, I 182 00:08:13,238 --> 00:08:14,918 Speaker 1: like that, And I would say the Astros have at 183 00:08:14,958 --> 00:08:17,278 Speaker 1: least one of those guys in jose Al Tove. You know, 184 00:08:17,358 --> 00:08:19,838 Speaker 1: let's face it, he's he's fought the odds his whole career, 185 00:08:19,958 --> 00:08:23,038 Speaker 1: being essentially five ft six and being told go home, 186 00:08:23,118 --> 00:08:25,678 Speaker 1: don't even come to this tryout, you're too small, and 187 00:08:25,718 --> 00:08:27,758 Speaker 1: here he has many All Star games and a championship. 188 00:08:27,838 --> 00:08:30,398 Speaker 1: Couple of championships later, that guy burns to win. I 189 00:08:30,398 --> 00:08:33,798 Speaker 1: don't think he's ever satisfied. Hey we've done well, We've 190 00:08:33,798 --> 00:08:36,398 Speaker 1: got a ring. Now it's time to to shift down 191 00:08:36,558 --> 00:08:39,038 Speaker 1: down shifts here. Um. You know, he's a big part 192 00:08:39,038 --> 00:08:40,998 Speaker 1: of what they do. So I think they've got a chance. 193 00:08:41,038 --> 00:08:43,038 Speaker 1: That team is still loaded. The addition of jose A. 194 00:08:43,118 --> 00:08:45,918 Speaker 1: Brave I love on that team. He's another guy I 195 00:08:45,958 --> 00:08:48,438 Speaker 1: think is one of our glue guys. Joe a guy 196 00:08:48,478 --> 00:08:51,718 Speaker 1: who loves playing the game, plays hurt and and I 197 00:08:51,758 --> 00:08:53,798 Speaker 1: know you love this. He puts the ball in play 198 00:08:53,798 --> 00:08:56,358 Speaker 1: to get runners in from base. You know, as a pitcher, 199 00:08:56,438 --> 00:08:58,198 Speaker 1: you know he's going to go out of the zone 200 00:08:58,198 --> 00:08:59,838 Speaker 1: if he asked to. He's gonna do whatever he can 201 00:08:59,958 --> 00:09:01,878 Speaker 1: to put the ball in play. And actually he he 202 00:09:01,998 --> 00:09:04,438 Speaker 1: might be the whole lynch into this old thing. I mean, 203 00:09:04,438 --> 00:09:06,198 Speaker 1: he has not one that thing yet, he has not 204 00:09:06,238 --> 00:09:08,278 Speaker 1: won that championship, and he might be. He's kind of 205 00:09:08,318 --> 00:09:10,118 Speaker 1: like maybe the perfect guy to bring in there under 206 00:09:10,158 --> 00:09:13,998 Speaker 1: the circumstances coming off of the victory World Series Championship, 207 00:09:14,158 --> 00:09:16,878 Speaker 1: and you're bringing somebody that's hungry. The latter part of 208 00:09:16,918 --> 00:09:19,438 Speaker 1: his career bit very productive. One of the best RBI 209 00:09:19,558 --> 00:09:21,238 Speaker 1: dudes out there. I mean, he's kind of like Edgar 210 00:09:21,358 --> 00:09:24,158 Speaker 1: Edgar Martinez. Good to me would his ability to go 211 00:09:24,198 --> 00:09:26,358 Speaker 1: to the opposite field when it's important in the game. 212 00:09:26,478 --> 00:09:27,958 Speaker 1: He's not up, they're just trying to get home run 213 00:09:27,998 --> 00:09:30,878 Speaker 1: the left center. He will make adaptations, he does all 214 00:09:30,918 --> 00:09:33,198 Speaker 1: those different things. I think he's he's a great addition. 215 00:09:33,198 --> 00:09:35,358 Speaker 1: He's a perfect fit for them. Right now, we're gonna 216 00:09:35,398 --> 00:09:37,518 Speaker 1: take a quick break. And I mentioned I am at 217 00:09:37,558 --> 00:09:40,158 Speaker 1: the Winter meetings in San Diego, and I know a 218 00:09:40,198 --> 00:09:42,678 Speaker 1: lot of you listeners are probably asking what that goes 219 00:09:42,758 --> 00:09:45,518 Speaker 1: on at these meetings? Are their actual meetings, and to 220 00:09:45,718 --> 00:09:49,118 Speaker 1: Joe's position in the game, what does the manager do 221 00:09:49,318 --> 00:09:52,038 Speaker 1: at the winter meetings. We'll attack that question when we 222 00:09:52,078 --> 00:10:03,078 Speaker 1: get back the Book of Joe. Welcome back to the 223 00:10:03,078 --> 00:10:05,278 Speaker 1: Book of Joe. Pot asked, Joe, you have to answer 224 00:10:05,318 --> 00:10:08,238 Speaker 1: this question here. People are probably wondering at these winter meetings, 225 00:10:08,278 --> 00:10:11,318 Speaker 1: what's going on and how much influence does a manager 226 00:10:11,478 --> 00:10:13,878 Speaker 1: have in these meetings. You've been through a bunch in 227 00:10:13,878 --> 00:10:16,238 Speaker 1: the course of your career. Yeah, I mean, let me 228 00:10:16,278 --> 00:10:18,038 Speaker 1: just give you a quick rundown of the day. Um, 229 00:10:18,038 --> 00:10:20,398 Speaker 1: it starts pretty much eight thirty nine o'clock in the morning, 230 00:10:20,518 --> 00:10:22,238 Speaker 1: you go to that war room, have a little breakfast, 231 00:10:22,238 --> 00:10:24,838 Speaker 1: and then everybody gathers as the GM or the assistant 232 00:10:24,918 --> 00:10:26,878 Speaker 1: GM are both call a meeting. So you sit in 233 00:10:26,878 --> 00:10:30,678 Speaker 1: this room yourself, not really any other. The major league 234 00:10:30,678 --> 00:10:33,118 Speaker 1: coach is normally a bunch of scouts in front office types. 235 00:10:33,558 --> 00:10:36,278 Speaker 1: We'll be sitting in there and you start going over 236 00:10:36,318 --> 00:10:38,638 Speaker 1: your group and what's what's your group all about, and 237 00:10:38,678 --> 00:10:41,398 Speaker 1: what you specifically need put up on a big resport, 238 00:10:41,478 --> 00:10:45,598 Speaker 1: and you start trying to attach different names of different organizations, teams, 239 00:10:45,678 --> 00:10:48,958 Speaker 1: how they fit in and who you actually like ums 240 00:10:49,398 --> 00:10:51,838 Speaker 1: within your scouting department. And then among the scouts, they're 241 00:10:51,838 --> 00:10:54,518 Speaker 1: all assigned different groups, different teams, maybe four or five 242 00:10:54,638 --> 00:10:57,638 Speaker 1: teams to two particular scouts. And then we'll get around 243 00:10:57,678 --> 00:10:59,038 Speaker 1: and work to lobby a bit and look with the 244 00:10:59,038 --> 00:11:02,518 Speaker 1: other scouts and try to feel out exactly what they're 245 00:11:02,558 --> 00:11:04,798 Speaker 1: really interested in, if they have any interest in your guys, 246 00:11:05,118 --> 00:11:06,718 Speaker 1: is there any way to make them with should make 247 00:11:06,758 --> 00:11:08,358 Speaker 1: a marriage right here, and you try to get that 248 00:11:08,398 --> 00:11:11,398 Speaker 1: done conversationally. That's one of the things that does attempt 249 00:11:11,398 --> 00:11:13,918 Speaker 1: to get done conversationally, so that all that is one 250 00:11:13,958 --> 00:11:16,118 Speaker 1: thing that really does actually happen down in the lobby, 251 00:11:16,198 --> 00:11:18,198 Speaker 1: Whereas in the past, like the GM and the real 252 00:11:18,518 --> 00:11:21,038 Speaker 1: the head guy would go downstairs, have a couple of drinks, 253 00:11:21,038 --> 00:11:22,998 Speaker 1: smoke a couple of cigars, and really try to get 254 00:11:22,998 --> 00:11:25,518 Speaker 1: things done. Now it's more like a team situation where 255 00:11:25,518 --> 00:11:27,718 Speaker 1: guys are sent out there to do that. So they 256 00:11:27,758 --> 00:11:30,678 Speaker 1: go downstairs and they they'll gather information and then here 257 00:11:30,678 --> 00:11:32,518 Speaker 1: it comes the next morning and you go back and 258 00:11:32,798 --> 00:11:35,758 Speaker 1: you cover exactly what have been found out. And this 259 00:11:36,038 --> 00:11:40,158 Speaker 1: this sometimes lights of fire, sometimes daubses it very immediately, 260 00:11:40,238 --> 00:11:42,838 Speaker 1: So that's a big part of the morning situation. From 261 00:11:42,838 --> 00:11:46,638 Speaker 1: the manager's perspective, Do I have any influence in those meetings? Um, 262 00:11:46,678 --> 00:11:50,038 Speaker 1: if I've known players, they will ask you about particular 263 00:11:50,078 --> 00:11:52,878 Speaker 1: guys if you had them on your team or specifically, 264 00:11:52,878 --> 00:11:56,878 Speaker 1: we have more insight information. Yes, you're always included in conversations, 265 00:11:56,918 --> 00:11:58,678 Speaker 1: But the end of the day, I think the manager 266 00:11:58,718 --> 00:12:01,438 Speaker 1: has very little influence on whether somebody's acquired or not. 267 00:12:01,598 --> 00:12:04,438 Speaker 1: And I'm not disagreeing with that. I I think the demandaged, 268 00:12:04,438 --> 00:12:06,958 Speaker 1: the general manager and the whole staff Scotting staff have 269 00:12:07,038 --> 00:12:10,998 Speaker 1: way more intel because they've seen guys away, not just 270 00:12:11,198 --> 00:12:13,598 Speaker 1: when I we played the team. Particularly, I get to 271 00:12:13,638 --> 00:12:15,798 Speaker 1: see players and make my judgments. They get to see 272 00:12:15,838 --> 00:12:17,398 Speaker 1: them all the time, and they get to see him 273 00:12:17,398 --> 00:12:21,118 Speaker 1: against different competition, and I think thus make better decisions 274 00:12:21,118 --> 00:12:22,998 Speaker 1: with that. So I'm okay with that. I've always thought 275 00:12:22,998 --> 00:12:25,838 Speaker 1: that is the right way to do things. That's interesting, Joe. 276 00:12:25,918 --> 00:12:28,118 Speaker 1: Let me stop you there, because it's interesting because you 277 00:12:28,118 --> 00:12:31,198 Speaker 1: would think that you, being the baseball guy in uniform, 278 00:12:31,398 --> 00:12:33,678 Speaker 1: would have a really good perspective on a player on 279 00:12:33,678 --> 00:12:35,678 Speaker 1: what he can and cannot do. But what you're saying 280 00:12:35,798 --> 00:12:40,078 Speaker 1: is these people have a wider lens and have more information. 281 00:12:40,198 --> 00:12:43,878 Speaker 1: So your opinion not that it's not valuable, maybe less 282 00:12:43,958 --> 00:12:47,318 Speaker 1: valuable than the wider perspective. It sounds like, yeah, I 283 00:12:47,118 --> 00:12:50,238 Speaker 1: I do believe that. I I believe that there's there's 284 00:12:50,278 --> 00:12:52,358 Speaker 1: a certain amount I'd like to believe. I'm not biasing 285 00:12:52,438 --> 00:12:54,398 Speaker 1: my decision making. I think we all want to believe that. 286 00:12:54,798 --> 00:12:57,478 Speaker 1: I started out as a scout in nineteen was it 287 00:12:57,598 --> 00:13:00,278 Speaker 1: eighty one, and I really believe I learned that I 288 00:13:00,358 --> 00:13:02,438 Speaker 1: learned how to break down a player. Independent of my 289 00:13:02,518 --> 00:13:04,718 Speaker 1: personal feelings about this scot, I will give you my 290 00:13:04,758 --> 00:13:07,438 Speaker 1: personal feelings, but then again, when I'm describing my player, 291 00:13:07,518 --> 00:13:09,958 Speaker 1: have to really put set those aside and talk about 292 00:13:09,998 --> 00:13:12,078 Speaker 1: the guy, the player's tools and how I think he 293 00:13:12,118 --> 00:13:14,038 Speaker 1: fits in. And I still believe I'm able to do that. 294 00:13:14,158 --> 00:13:16,038 Speaker 1: I guess in a sense, I'm also talking about in 295 00:13:16,078 --> 00:13:18,598 Speaker 1: general terms that there's there's a lot of bias involved 296 00:13:18,638 --> 00:13:21,558 Speaker 1: in people. Scotts can become salesman too. They want guys, 297 00:13:21,598 --> 00:13:24,678 Speaker 1: they want to take opportunity to acquire somebody, and they 298 00:13:24,678 --> 00:13:26,478 Speaker 1: want their name attacks with the guy. Still believe that's 299 00:13:26,518 --> 00:13:28,478 Speaker 1: part of the industry too, But I believe the way 300 00:13:28,518 --> 00:13:30,518 Speaker 1: I was raised, I try to keep my bias out 301 00:13:30,518 --> 00:13:32,518 Speaker 1: of it. If if in fact there is one and 302 00:13:32,558 --> 00:13:34,278 Speaker 1: the thought that I have not seen enough of this 303 00:13:34,358 --> 00:13:36,998 Speaker 1: guy away from my particular team. Now, if I have 304 00:13:37,038 --> 00:13:39,118 Speaker 1: a really strong opinion on somebody and I think I'm 305 00:13:39,118 --> 00:13:41,198 Speaker 1: absolutely on target with it, I will let that be 306 00:13:41,278 --> 00:13:44,478 Speaker 1: known to I absolutely will, because I have been taught 307 00:13:44,478 --> 00:13:46,038 Speaker 1: well and I think I am a good scout. So 308 00:13:46,238 --> 00:13:48,678 Speaker 1: all these different layers have to be considered, I think. 309 00:13:48,718 --> 00:13:51,598 Speaker 1: But the manager has some input. I think it depends 310 00:13:51,598 --> 00:13:54,158 Speaker 1: on the whoever running the show there and how much 311 00:13:54,198 --> 00:13:56,878 Speaker 1: they really want to listen, how much they value that input. 312 00:13:57,118 --> 00:13:59,798 Speaker 1: We're all scouting each other all the time. Scouting directors 313 00:13:59,798 --> 00:14:01,358 Speaker 1: have to know every one of their scouts. They have 314 00:14:01,438 --> 00:14:03,358 Speaker 1: to know if they are the easy graders, are the 315 00:14:03,398 --> 00:14:06,198 Speaker 1: difficult raiders? Where do they fall in line in regards 316 00:14:06,238 --> 00:14:08,798 Speaker 1: to how? Really, when it comes down to how, how 317 00:14:08,838 --> 00:14:11,198 Speaker 1: do they evaluate? And then you have to clean from 318 00:14:11,198 --> 00:14:13,638 Speaker 1: that and attach what you believe to be the right 319 00:14:13,718 --> 00:14:16,878 Speaker 1: answer and eventually conclude yourself being the GM where the 320 00:14:16,918 --> 00:14:19,558 Speaker 1: scouting director himself. So all these things, I don't know, 321 00:14:19,638 --> 00:14:22,318 Speaker 1: that sounds complicated, but I believe all that stuff, and 322 00:14:22,358 --> 00:14:23,958 Speaker 1: that that's why I think there needs to be separation 323 00:14:23,998 --> 00:14:26,478 Speaker 1: of power when it comes to doing jobs. You know, 324 00:14:26,678 --> 00:14:29,478 Speaker 1: front office, that's front office things. Coaches and managers do. 325 00:14:29,638 --> 00:14:32,398 Speaker 1: Coaches and manager thinks scouts do scout things. I really 326 00:14:32,438 --> 00:14:35,078 Speaker 1: believe that sincerely, And I think when it all meshes 327 00:14:35,118 --> 00:14:37,878 Speaker 1: together and everybody listens to one another with you have 328 00:14:37,918 --> 00:14:40,198 Speaker 1: to have one decision maker, there's no question. But I 329 00:14:40,238 --> 00:14:42,558 Speaker 1: think everybody there has to be a separation of powers 330 00:14:42,678 --> 00:14:45,358 Speaker 1: to really make this whole thing valid and work at 331 00:14:45,398 --> 00:14:48,638 Speaker 1: its at its utmost abilities. Well, let's talk about a 332 00:14:48,678 --> 00:14:51,998 Speaker 1: real world example of adding a player to a roster 333 00:14:52,078 --> 00:14:54,318 Speaker 1: where maybe you want to think about the manager's opinion 334 00:14:54,358 --> 00:14:56,358 Speaker 1: the New York Mets lose Jacob the Gram to the 335 00:14:56,398 --> 00:15:00,038 Speaker 1: Texas Rangers five year contract hundred and eighty five million dollars, 336 00:15:00,158 --> 00:15:02,238 Speaker 1: they pivot as quickly and as well as they can 337 00:15:02,358 --> 00:15:06,078 Speaker 1: sign Justin Verlander for two years eighty six million dollars. Now, 338 00:15:06,118 --> 00:15:09,918 Speaker 1: there's a history between Max Scherzer and Justin Verland or 339 00:15:09,958 --> 00:15:12,958 Speaker 1: they played together in Detroit, and the reports are that 340 00:15:13,038 --> 00:15:15,878 Speaker 1: it's well, it's kind of call it a friendly rivalry 341 00:15:15,958 --> 00:15:19,078 Speaker 1: and maybe sometimes not so friendly, to the point where 342 00:15:19,078 --> 00:15:22,758 Speaker 1: it's been compared to Kurt Schilling and Randy Johnson back 343 00:15:22,798 --> 00:15:26,038 Speaker 1: in the days with the Arizona Diamondbacks. Um, they got 344 00:15:26,038 --> 00:15:28,878 Speaker 1: on each other's nerves. Listen, it worked out, no one right, 345 00:15:28,918 --> 00:15:31,318 Speaker 1: they won a World Series. But for instance, there's a 346 00:15:31,358 --> 00:15:34,718 Speaker 1: story that I heard that Shilling just loved to tweak 347 00:15:34,798 --> 00:15:36,718 Speaker 1: Randy Johnson and they were just birds of a different 348 00:15:36,758 --> 00:15:39,478 Speaker 1: different feather and Shilling would ask Randy Johnson, well, how 349 00:15:39,558 --> 00:15:42,078 Speaker 1: much money you do get from an autograph show? And 350 00:15:42,198 --> 00:15:44,478 Speaker 1: Johnson would say whatever the number was, say a hundred 351 00:15:44,478 --> 00:15:47,598 Speaker 1: thousand dollars, and Chilling, just on purpose would say, well 352 00:15:47,638 --> 00:15:50,078 Speaker 1: I get a hundred and ten thousand, and it wasn't true, 353 00:15:50,158 --> 00:15:52,358 Speaker 1: but he did it just a tweak Johnson, and it 354 00:15:52,438 --> 00:15:55,918 Speaker 1: kind of kept this rivalry going that it was sometimes 355 00:15:55,958 --> 00:15:58,118 Speaker 1: kidding on the square, maybe cut a little too close 356 00:15:58,158 --> 00:16:00,398 Speaker 1: to home. So the Mets did have to do a 357 00:16:00,398 --> 00:16:03,158 Speaker 1: little bit of intel here with Max Scherzer and like 358 00:16:03,318 --> 00:16:05,558 Speaker 1: make sure he was okay. You don't certainly don't want 359 00:16:05,558 --> 00:16:08,358 Speaker 1: to surprise your guy by bringing in someone that even 360 00:16:08,398 --> 00:16:10,318 Speaker 1: if he was friendly with him, let's face it, you 361 00:16:10,318 --> 00:16:13,998 Speaker 1: want to get his opinion on Justin Verlander. So obviously 362 00:16:14,198 --> 00:16:16,478 Speaker 1: you still are going to sign the player. You're not 363 00:16:16,478 --> 00:16:19,158 Speaker 1: going to preclude yourself and getting Justin Verlander based on 364 00:16:19,198 --> 00:16:22,118 Speaker 1: a friendly rivalry. But it was an interesting clubhouse dynamic 365 00:16:22,278 --> 00:16:24,918 Speaker 1: that now Buck Shalter will deal with. I'm sure it's 366 00:16:24,958 --> 00:16:27,078 Speaker 1: not a problem, but these are the kind of things 367 00:16:27,078 --> 00:16:29,558 Speaker 1: you gotta look into behind the numbers. I'm not sure 368 00:16:29,598 --> 00:16:31,758 Speaker 1: if you had anything quite like that, Joe. Well, you 369 00:16:31,798 --> 00:16:33,798 Speaker 1: introduce somebody to the clubhouse and you have to figure 370 00:16:33,798 --> 00:16:36,398 Speaker 1: out if there is friction or maybe friction develops later. 371 00:16:36,478 --> 00:16:38,518 Speaker 1: But I do remember you telling the one story about 372 00:16:38,638 --> 00:16:40,198 Speaker 1: I think it was your first day or what are 373 00:16:40,198 --> 00:16:42,158 Speaker 1: your first days with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. You 374 00:16:42,158 --> 00:16:44,918 Speaker 1: almost had a fight on the field. Yeah, we did. 375 00:16:44,998 --> 00:16:48,158 Speaker 1: That was just when guys are running arcs that we 376 00:16:48,198 --> 00:16:50,718 Speaker 1: would call them around the outside edges of the grass, 377 00:16:50,718 --> 00:16:53,838 Speaker 1: where Elijah, Dukes and Carl kind of got after it 378 00:16:54,238 --> 00:16:56,718 Speaker 1: pretty I thought they were kidding around until I figured 379 00:16:56,718 --> 00:16:59,358 Speaker 1: out pretty quickly they were not. Yes, sec Carl, Crawford 380 00:16:59,358 --> 00:17:02,158 Speaker 1: and Elijah went after pretty well right there, and that 381 00:17:02,278 --> 00:17:03,958 Speaker 1: was like, yeah again, then you have to know a 382 00:17:04,038 --> 00:17:05,758 Speaker 1: dynamic of these guys gonna be on the same team. 383 00:17:05,758 --> 00:17:07,398 Speaker 1: How is it going to co exist? What kind of 384 00:17:07,398 --> 00:17:09,358 Speaker 1: conversations do I have to have with them in advance? 385 00:17:09,398 --> 00:17:11,038 Speaker 1: Do we really need to keep them separate? Can we 386 00:17:11,078 --> 00:17:14,078 Speaker 1: get them back together somehow? There's all different, absolutely right, 387 00:17:14,438 --> 00:17:16,438 Speaker 1: So many different things to consider, and when you're coming 388 00:17:16,478 --> 00:17:19,718 Speaker 1: to acquiring players, especially if a guy's within the same position. 389 00:17:19,758 --> 00:17:22,678 Speaker 1: I know, starting pitchings are starting pitchers, and you need 390 00:17:22,718 --> 00:17:24,478 Speaker 1: five or six of those guys. But if you're gonna 391 00:17:24,478 --> 00:17:26,958 Speaker 1: bring somebody in that may conflict in another way with 392 00:17:26,958 --> 00:17:28,998 Speaker 1: with an established player on your team, I think it 393 00:17:29,078 --> 00:17:31,118 Speaker 1: is wise to talk to that player in advance. And 394 00:17:31,158 --> 00:17:33,718 Speaker 1: I can't remember specifically, but I've done those kind of things. 395 00:17:33,718 --> 00:17:36,158 Speaker 1: I can't give you examples exactly, but I've done that. 396 00:17:36,198 --> 00:17:38,958 Speaker 1: We've done that in different cities where if you're gonna 397 00:17:38,958 --> 00:17:41,838 Speaker 1: bring somebody in and you can see an existing conflict, 398 00:17:41,838 --> 00:17:44,998 Speaker 1: maybe something personality wise, something that occurred in the previous 399 00:17:45,078 --> 00:17:47,918 Speaker 1: lifetime with a different team, or just based on position 400 00:17:47,998 --> 00:17:50,078 Speaker 1: and what it can do for playing time, or is 401 00:17:50,118 --> 00:17:52,878 Speaker 1: there is there a consideration of having to move a position. 402 00:17:53,038 --> 00:17:55,598 Speaker 1: Of course you want to do all of that in advance, 403 00:17:55,598 --> 00:17:57,478 Speaker 1: and I think that's good. There's not there's not a 404 00:17:57,558 --> 00:17:59,798 Speaker 1: thing wrong with that, because I'll tell you once, once 405 00:17:59,798 --> 00:18:02,158 Speaker 1: you get to the building and spring training or in 406 00:18:02,198 --> 00:18:05,878 Speaker 1: the regular season, it's very difficult to overcome that or 407 00:18:05,918 --> 00:18:09,198 Speaker 1: surmount these kind of situations unless you've done your work 408 00:18:09,278 --> 00:18:11,358 Speaker 1: in advance. If you've done the work in advance and 409 00:18:11,478 --> 00:18:13,958 Speaker 1: people commit to different yes, we'll get you know. Of 410 00:18:13,998 --> 00:18:16,318 Speaker 1: course I'll be able to co exist. Of course, winning 411 00:18:16,358 --> 00:18:18,518 Speaker 1: is the most important thing, and we'll do whatever it 412 00:18:18,518 --> 00:18:20,038 Speaker 1: takes to to make sure that we get on the 413 00:18:20,078 --> 00:18:23,038 Speaker 1: same page. And you get those kind of conversations in advance. 414 00:18:23,438 --> 00:18:26,078 Speaker 1: Then when it acts the situation actually does occur, we 415 00:18:26,158 --> 00:18:28,638 Speaker 1: are coming together under the one roof. It's a lot 416 00:18:28,718 --> 00:18:31,718 Speaker 1: easier to navigate that moment as opposed to try and 417 00:18:31,718 --> 00:18:34,598 Speaker 1: to avoid the conversation and jets just thrust two people 418 00:18:34,598 --> 00:18:38,198 Speaker 1: into situation that can become more difficult. Yeah, my guest, 419 00:18:38,278 --> 00:18:41,238 Speaker 1: knowing both of those guys is no matter what the 420 00:18:41,278 --> 00:18:44,318 Speaker 1: relationship is, it's going to bring out the best in them. Now, listen, 421 00:18:44,358 --> 00:18:47,118 Speaker 1: they don't need much help. They're both self starters, extremely 422 00:18:47,198 --> 00:18:50,478 Speaker 1: highly motivated, and highly talented individuals. But I think the 423 00:18:50,598 --> 00:18:54,878 Speaker 1: rivalry aspect, if not outpitch each other, just gotta outwork 424 00:18:54,918 --> 00:18:56,598 Speaker 1: each other. I think that's gonna be good for the 425 00:18:56,598 --> 00:18:59,198 Speaker 1: New York Mets. Absolutely will be. And I thought that 426 00:18:59,318 --> 00:19:01,518 Speaker 1: same thing. You're absolutely right. When we get back, we 427 00:19:01,598 --> 00:19:04,838 Speaker 1: want to talk about the Hall of Fame, Fred McGriff 428 00:19:04,918 --> 00:19:08,518 Speaker 1: finally going in and the steroid guys may never be 429 00:19:08,638 --> 00:19:10,718 Speaker 1: getting in. We'll talk about that on the Book of 430 00:19:10,798 --> 00:19:21,798 Speaker 1: Joe when we get back. Welcome back to the Book 431 00:19:21,798 --> 00:19:24,558 Speaker 1: of Joe podcast. Joe. I'm sure you heard about the 432 00:19:24,558 --> 00:19:27,918 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame announcement. This was the Contemporary Era Committee. 433 00:19:27,958 --> 00:19:30,998 Speaker 1: Sixteen people walk into a room, sixteen people walk out 434 00:19:31,038 --> 00:19:33,598 Speaker 1: agreeing that Fred McGriff is a Hall of Famer. I'm 435 00:19:33,638 --> 00:19:35,798 Speaker 1: so happy for Fred. When he was on the Writer's 436 00:19:35,798 --> 00:19:39,078 Speaker 1: ballot ten years without getting of the vote you need 437 00:19:40,078 --> 00:19:42,398 Speaker 1: to get in. I voted for him every year. I 438 00:19:42,438 --> 00:19:44,958 Speaker 1: think his career was a Hall of Fame career no 439 00:19:44,998 --> 00:19:47,278 Speaker 1: matter what. But I also think it was underserved and 440 00:19:47,358 --> 00:19:50,878 Speaker 1: underappreciated because the other guys who did use steroids. Fred 441 00:19:50,958 --> 00:19:53,158 Speaker 1: McGriff was a guy winning home run titles with thirty 442 00:19:53,198 --> 00:19:55,518 Speaker 1: five and thirty six home runs, and he kept throwing 443 00:19:55,598 --> 00:19:58,078 Speaker 1: up his thirty plus homers, but it looked like nothing 444 00:19:58,118 --> 00:20:00,958 Speaker 1: when you're hit thirty two, and he finished seventeen in 445 00:20:00,998 --> 00:20:03,438 Speaker 1: the league, whereas it was good enough to challenge for 446 00:20:03,478 --> 00:20:06,238 Speaker 1: the title before the game went wild with steroids. So 447 00:20:06,398 --> 00:20:09,678 Speaker 1: good on Fred McGriff, just a classy gentleman, never complained 448 00:20:09,718 --> 00:20:12,518 Speaker 1: about coming up short or really not getting that close 449 00:20:12,558 --> 00:20:14,838 Speaker 1: to getting in, but never complained about it. Good things 450 00:20:14,838 --> 00:20:17,278 Speaker 1: happen to those who wait, and that's Fred McGriff in 451 00:20:17,278 --> 00:20:19,558 Speaker 1: this case. I've always heard that. I think one of 452 00:20:19,558 --> 00:20:21,558 Speaker 1: my nuns told me that years ago, good things come 453 00:20:21,598 --> 00:20:24,318 Speaker 1: to those who wait. I I actually had. I invited 454 00:20:24,318 --> 00:20:26,398 Speaker 1: Freddie to come to camps when I was when I 455 00:20:26,398 --> 00:20:28,518 Speaker 1: started out with the Devil Rays. I wanted Freddie and Camp. 456 00:20:28,518 --> 00:20:30,798 Speaker 1: I was trying to get the alumni more involved in 457 00:20:30,838 --> 00:20:33,838 Speaker 1: Tampa Bay, and eventually it turned out to be Davy Martinez, 458 00:20:33,958 --> 00:20:36,238 Speaker 1: the guy that got there and eventually became a World 459 00:20:36,238 --> 00:20:39,238 Speaker 1: Series manager with the winning manager with the Nationals. But 460 00:20:39,318 --> 00:20:42,238 Speaker 1: at Freddie, I try to get weight out Davy Um, 461 00:20:42,678 --> 00:20:45,558 Speaker 1: Roberto Hernandez, guys that I thought were influential in the 462 00:20:45,598 --> 00:20:47,638 Speaker 1: growth of the Devil Rays of that particular time. And 463 00:20:47,718 --> 00:20:49,678 Speaker 1: I got Freddie out there, so I got to know Freddie. 464 00:20:49,678 --> 00:20:52,998 Speaker 1: Freddie is he's wonderfully He's got this unique laugh that's 465 00:20:53,078 --> 00:20:55,678 Speaker 1: really infectious. So he is he's a pleasure to be around. 466 00:20:55,678 --> 00:20:58,678 Speaker 1: And that one time during that time that you ever 467 00:20:58,758 --> 00:21:00,878 Speaker 1: hear anything. This is a couple of years ago, so 468 00:21:00,918 --> 00:21:03,398 Speaker 1: the voting for the Hall of Fame was as pertinent 469 00:21:03,398 --> 00:21:04,558 Speaker 1: to him at that point it was. It was just 470 00:21:04,638 --> 00:21:07,678 Speaker 1: the beginning of it. But the guy never really bemoaned anything. 471 00:21:07,718 --> 00:21:09,718 Speaker 1: I don't have heard him do anything. He likes to 472 00:21:09,718 --> 00:21:11,438 Speaker 1: play golf, so he'd want to get out of there 473 00:21:11,438 --> 00:21:13,878 Speaker 1: and he'd go play golf at Old Memorial and uh, 474 00:21:14,038 --> 00:21:15,678 Speaker 1: that was it. And he'd come and he'd show up 475 00:21:15,718 --> 00:21:17,758 Speaker 1: and he he'd just be a pleasure. He's just a 476 00:21:17,798 --> 00:21:19,758 Speaker 1: pleasure to be around. He's a lot of fun. He 477 00:21:19,798 --> 00:21:21,438 Speaker 1: had a little bit of a front office gig with 478 00:21:21,478 --> 00:21:23,318 Speaker 1: the Devil Rays at that time, and then the Race 479 00:21:23,478 --> 00:21:26,198 Speaker 1: had his own office upstairs. Wasn't used that often, but 480 00:21:26,238 --> 00:21:28,438 Speaker 1: we we joked about that. But Freddie hangs out with 481 00:21:28,478 --> 00:21:31,598 Speaker 1: my boy Chico. Chico Nandez is the Fernandez is the 482 00:21:31,678 --> 00:21:34,678 Speaker 1: video guy for the Raise and he likes to sit. Uh. 483 00:21:34,758 --> 00:21:36,918 Speaker 1: Freddie will sit in that room with Chico during games, 484 00:21:36,958 --> 00:21:39,998 Speaker 1: sometimes before before when it was you were available to 485 00:21:39,998 --> 00:21:41,958 Speaker 1: do those kind of things, and they would just laugh 486 00:21:41,998 --> 00:21:44,638 Speaker 1: because they're both very funny guys. So I'm so happy 487 00:21:44,678 --> 00:21:46,358 Speaker 1: for him. I texted him last night. For him and 488 00:21:46,358 --> 00:21:48,318 Speaker 1: his family. It's a great achievement. And you're right, if 489 00:21:48,318 --> 00:21:50,318 Speaker 1: you hit seven more home runs, it would have happened 490 00:21:50,318 --> 00:21:52,758 Speaker 1: how many years ago. You're right, And it's not so 491 00:21:52,838 --> 00:21:55,038 Speaker 1: much it's a magic number. But when you get to 492 00:21:55,118 --> 00:21:58,758 Speaker 1: that number, you're celebrating. Your career is celebrated during your 493 00:21:58,798 --> 00:22:01,798 Speaker 1: playing days. And he never really got that red carpet 494 00:22:01,798 --> 00:22:04,438 Speaker 1: treatment where people could stand back and say, Freddy McGriff 495 00:22:04,598 --> 00:22:06,678 Speaker 1: he's putting up Hall of Fame numbers. And you know, 496 00:22:06,718 --> 00:22:09,238 Speaker 1: he did play for five different teams, and that's sometimes 497 00:22:09,238 --> 00:22:11,158 Speaker 1: a part of it. Too. But I remember Joe Torre 498 00:22:11,398 --> 00:22:13,518 Speaker 1: telling me when those Yankee teams were going up against 499 00:22:13,558 --> 00:22:15,838 Speaker 1: the Great Braves teams in the World Series, saying, the 500 00:22:15,918 --> 00:22:18,078 Speaker 1: one guy he feared the most in that lineup was 501 00:22:18,118 --> 00:22:21,758 Speaker 1: Freddie McGriff And I told Freddie that story was And Freddie, 502 00:22:21,758 --> 00:22:24,078 Speaker 1: he's such a humble guy. He's like, really he said 503 00:22:24,118 --> 00:22:27,638 Speaker 1: that about me? Just the pleasure to be around. And 504 00:22:27,678 --> 00:22:29,958 Speaker 1: as for the steroid guys, you, I really want to 505 00:22:29,998 --> 00:22:32,198 Speaker 1: get your opinion on this, because everybody does seem to 506 00:22:32,198 --> 00:22:35,398 Speaker 1: have one listen based on the results. They don't announce 507 00:22:35,478 --> 00:22:39,078 Speaker 1: complete results, but guys like Bonds and Clemens got less 508 00:22:39,078 --> 00:22:41,358 Speaker 1: than four votes of the six team people in the 509 00:22:41,438 --> 00:22:43,518 Speaker 1: room who can vote for up to three people on 510 00:22:43,558 --> 00:22:46,638 Speaker 1: their ballots. So to me, if I'm Bonds and Clemens 511 00:22:46,678 --> 00:22:48,598 Speaker 1: and I see the result of this after going over 512 00:22:48,718 --> 00:22:51,078 Speaker 1: ten on the writer's ballot, there's no hope of getting 513 00:22:51,078 --> 00:22:53,118 Speaker 1: into the Hall of Fame right now. Now, things can change, 514 00:22:53,118 --> 00:22:56,038 Speaker 1: I would never say, ever, who knows. As time passes, 515 00:22:56,318 --> 00:22:59,158 Speaker 1: maybe opinions do. But as it stands right now, there 516 00:22:59,238 --> 00:23:01,678 Speaker 1: is no momentum to think those guys are going to 517 00:23:01,718 --> 00:23:03,278 Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame. And I know there's some people 518 00:23:03,318 --> 00:23:05,638 Speaker 1: who say, oh, what's the Hall of Fame without you know, 519 00:23:05,718 --> 00:23:07,438 Speaker 1: the guy who wants seven m vps, the guy who 520 00:23:07,478 --> 00:23:10,038 Speaker 1: wants seven Cy Young's. It's still a Hall of Fame, folks. 521 00:23:10,038 --> 00:23:12,358 Speaker 1: There's a Hall of Fame museum where their stories are 522 00:23:12,398 --> 00:23:14,998 Speaker 1: well told, and then there's the plaque of the Hall 523 00:23:15,078 --> 00:23:18,158 Speaker 1: of famers themselves, which is the highest honor in baseball. 524 00:23:18,358 --> 00:23:20,718 Speaker 1: That's sort of like the inner circle of the Hall 525 00:23:20,798 --> 00:23:23,918 Speaker 1: of Fame museum. You only get in there, in my book, 526 00:23:23,998 --> 00:23:26,678 Speaker 1: when you play the game, not just well, but you 527 00:23:26,758 --> 00:23:31,638 Speaker 1: play it right. The bedrock of competition is fair play. 528 00:23:31,718 --> 00:23:35,158 Speaker 1: When you use pe s, it's a conscious effort. It's 529 00:23:35,198 --> 00:23:37,558 Speaker 1: not a mistake. It's almost like a Ponzi scheme. It 530 00:23:37,598 --> 00:23:41,598 Speaker 1: takes effort to maintain this deception that you're pulling off 531 00:23:41,638 --> 00:23:44,438 Speaker 1: to get an uneven playing field and edge over the 532 00:23:44,478 --> 00:23:46,478 Speaker 1: guy on the other side of the field. That is 533 00:23:46,518 --> 00:23:50,318 Speaker 1: done purposefully, and it's done covertly. People don't talk about 534 00:23:50,358 --> 00:23:52,358 Speaker 1: it to this day because they know it was the 535 00:23:52,398 --> 00:23:55,878 Speaker 1: wrong thing. So me, as a voter, I never excused 536 00:23:56,118 --> 00:23:59,518 Speaker 1: the choice to use steroids. You never become good enough 537 00:23:59,838 --> 00:24:02,198 Speaker 1: or a big enough star to say to make me 538 00:24:02,278 --> 00:24:04,198 Speaker 1: say you know what you're good enough now can go 539 00:24:04,238 --> 00:24:06,478 Speaker 1: ahead and break the rules. You can go ahead and 540 00:24:06,518 --> 00:24:09,278 Speaker 1: disadvantaged players who are playing the game clean. And whenever 541 00:24:09,318 --> 00:24:11,598 Speaker 1: I had a bout in my hands, Joe, I thought 542 00:24:11,598 --> 00:24:13,998 Speaker 1: about all the clean players that I talked to during 543 00:24:14,038 --> 00:24:16,078 Speaker 1: that era who were ticked off that they were put 544 00:24:16,118 --> 00:24:19,318 Speaker 1: in a position where they either had to go against 545 00:24:19,358 --> 00:24:23,678 Speaker 1: their moral compass and use steroids just to compete, or 546 00:24:24,478 --> 00:24:27,398 Speaker 1: they had to be disadvantaged. That's not a place that 547 00:24:27,518 --> 00:24:30,398 Speaker 1: anybody should be in. Where you're trying to play the 548 00:24:30,398 --> 00:24:32,998 Speaker 1: game the right way and your disadvantaged. Those are the 549 00:24:33,038 --> 00:24:35,838 Speaker 1: guys I think about. I don't think about being an 550 00:24:35,878 --> 00:24:38,998 Speaker 1: excuse maker for guys who made the wrong decision. It's 551 00:24:39,038 --> 00:24:41,678 Speaker 1: like Dan Nolty, who was a pitcher who otherwise never 552 00:24:41,718 --> 00:24:44,038 Speaker 1: would have made the major leagues, who added about eight 553 00:24:44,038 --> 00:24:47,078 Speaker 1: miles an hour to his fastball by using steroids. Said, listen, 554 00:24:47,358 --> 00:24:49,758 Speaker 1: we all knew it was the wrong thing when we 555 00:24:49,798 --> 00:24:51,478 Speaker 1: did it, so I don't want to hear it Hall 556 00:24:51,558 --> 00:24:55,158 Speaker 1: of Fame time. We should start excusing it now. In retrospect, 557 00:24:55,238 --> 00:24:57,918 Speaker 1: I have no problem to keeping these guys out. I 558 00:24:57,998 --> 00:25:01,398 Speaker 1: don't see an avenue that they are going in and listen, Joe, 559 00:25:01,438 --> 00:25:03,238 Speaker 1: if you had you know, we saw it with three 560 00:25:03,278 --> 00:25:05,718 Speaker 1: hundreds of so writers. We saw it with sixteen people 561 00:25:05,758 --> 00:25:08,238 Speaker 1: in the room. If you grab two hundred people off 562 00:25:08,238 --> 00:25:10,678 Speaker 1: the streets or the lobby of the hotel here at 563 00:25:10,678 --> 00:25:12,838 Speaker 1: the winter meetings and ask people should they be in 564 00:25:12,838 --> 00:25:15,758 Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame, you're not getting seventy of the 565 00:25:15,798 --> 00:25:18,358 Speaker 1: people to think that steroids are okay, not just okay, 566 00:25:18,398 --> 00:25:21,198 Speaker 1: but celebrated. So that's my rant on the Hall of Fame. 567 00:25:21,238 --> 00:25:23,238 Speaker 1: And I don't feel sorry for these guys. They have 568 00:25:23,398 --> 00:25:25,998 Speaker 1: their records, you know, they have their numbers, that's not 569 00:25:26,038 --> 00:25:28,878 Speaker 1: going to change. But they don't have what I believe 570 00:25:28,998 --> 00:25:31,958 Speaker 1: is the highest individual honor you can give anybody in baseball. 571 00:25:32,158 --> 00:25:34,678 Speaker 1: You live through that era, you saw it happen. Yeah, 572 00:25:35,318 --> 00:25:37,638 Speaker 1: I did. And uh well, I can't top your rant. 573 00:25:37,678 --> 00:25:39,918 Speaker 1: Your rants right on the money. And but I could 574 00:25:39,958 --> 00:25:41,918 Speaker 1: say this, I saw a lot of these guys, I 575 00:25:41,958 --> 00:25:45,398 Speaker 1: think before they ever did ingest anything or shot up 576 00:25:45,398 --> 00:25:47,758 Speaker 1: with anything. I saw Bonds at Arizona State when he 577 00:25:47,838 --> 00:25:50,478 Speaker 1: was what eighteen seventeen, eighteen nineteen years of age. I 578 00:25:50,558 --> 00:25:53,038 Speaker 1: used to go to a s U Packard stadium almost nightly. 579 00:25:53,078 --> 00:25:55,158 Speaker 1: When I started out as a scout nineteen eight one, 580 00:25:55,278 --> 00:25:57,758 Speaker 1: and I saw the skinny left field there man um 581 00:25:57,798 --> 00:26:00,678 Speaker 1: that had incredible power at that time, just the way 582 00:26:00,718 --> 00:26:03,478 Speaker 1: his body moved defense his arm wasn't that great at 583 00:26:03,478 --> 00:26:06,878 Speaker 1: that time. Nevertheless, this was a really good baseball player. 584 00:26:06,918 --> 00:26:08,838 Speaker 1: And then eventually see him go to the big leagues 585 00:26:08,838 --> 00:26:10,358 Speaker 1: and everything else that he had done. But this guy, 586 00:26:10,878 --> 00:26:13,438 Speaker 1: without any kind of aid whatsoever, would have had a 587 00:26:13,478 --> 00:26:15,878 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame career. There's no doubt or question in 588 00:26:15,918 --> 00:26:18,678 Speaker 1: my mind. Alex Rodriguez. I saw him when he was 589 00:26:18,718 --> 00:26:22,838 Speaker 1: seventeen eighteen Instructional League at the in Peoria, Arizona, during 590 00:26:23,038 --> 00:26:25,198 Speaker 1: games down there, and I saw this guy. First game 591 00:26:25,238 --> 00:26:26,478 Speaker 1: I saw him, he went up the middle for a 592 00:26:26,478 --> 00:26:28,638 Speaker 1: groundball to his left, I mean way up the middle, 593 00:26:28,798 --> 00:26:30,878 Speaker 1: behind the bag on the grass of the pier, went 594 00:26:30,918 --> 00:26:32,798 Speaker 1: and threw somebody out at first space for us. That 595 00:26:32,958 --> 00:26:34,918 Speaker 1: ran pretty well. I think, God damgn. I mean, that 596 00:26:35,038 --> 00:26:36,958 Speaker 1: was like so incredible when I saw him at home 597 00:26:37,038 --> 00:26:39,278 Speaker 1: runs in his earlier first year or so with the 598 00:26:39,318 --> 00:26:42,718 Speaker 1: Mariners so deeply into the old configuration of Anaheim Stadium 599 00:26:42,758 --> 00:26:45,438 Speaker 1: that wow, I mean, nobody else get at the ball 600 00:26:45,798 --> 00:26:47,678 Speaker 1: at that distance. That he was still a thin young 601 00:26:47,678 --> 00:26:49,958 Speaker 1: man and guys that didn't even make well. McGuire is 602 00:26:49,958 --> 00:26:53,198 Speaker 1: another example. I saw him, Wow, I saw him uh 603 00:26:53,278 --> 00:26:56,078 Speaker 1: an instructional league with the Oakland A's very thin kid, 604 00:26:56,158 --> 00:26:58,638 Speaker 1: great power. It actually was playing third base at the time, 605 00:26:58,838 --> 00:27:01,878 Speaker 1: absolutely had a Hall of Fame potential even without any 606 00:27:01,918 --> 00:27:04,718 Speaker 1: kind of aid. It's just how we think because human beings, 607 00:27:04,758 --> 00:27:08,198 Speaker 1: this this, this substance comes along and when you're that young, 608 00:27:08,318 --> 00:27:11,158 Speaker 1: sometimes we all make bad decisions. And obviously these guys 609 00:27:11,198 --> 00:27:14,398 Speaker 1: made decisions that weren't really in their best interest long term. 610 00:27:14,558 --> 00:27:16,678 Speaker 1: So it is it's difficult to understand why they did it. 611 00:27:16,758 --> 00:27:19,718 Speaker 1: But I'm here to say minus that stuff in them, 612 00:27:19,838 --> 00:27:22,238 Speaker 1: I from what I say athletically as a scout at 613 00:27:22,278 --> 00:27:24,358 Speaker 1: that time, they all would have fared very well. They 614 00:27:24,438 --> 00:27:26,358 Speaker 1: all probably would have had Hall of Fame careers. And 615 00:27:26,398 --> 00:27:28,398 Speaker 1: that's the sad part about this, the fact that they 616 00:27:28,478 --> 00:27:31,318 Speaker 1: begin to begin to be unable to achieve the highest level. 617 00:27:31,518 --> 00:27:33,598 Speaker 1: But all kids want to do as major league baseball 618 00:27:33,638 --> 00:27:36,478 Speaker 1: players based on a bad decision that they made, where 619 00:27:36,518 --> 00:27:38,918 Speaker 1: as their talent level was so good they did not 620 00:27:38,958 --> 00:27:41,438 Speaker 1: need to help in the first place. Yeah, it's well said, 621 00:27:41,558 --> 00:27:43,518 Speaker 1: that's that is the shame of it, you know, not 622 00:27:43,638 --> 00:27:45,518 Speaker 1: that they're going in, but they had enough hall of 623 00:27:45,518 --> 00:27:48,998 Speaker 1: fame ability to get in without the use of aids. Um. 624 00:27:48,998 --> 00:27:51,838 Speaker 1: But I understand it. I understand why guys made decisions. 625 00:27:51,878 --> 00:27:54,398 Speaker 1: It was it was available and they saw other people 626 00:27:54,398 --> 00:27:56,278 Speaker 1: doing it, and they say, why not me? So do 627 00:27:56,318 --> 00:28:00,358 Speaker 1: I understand it? Absolutely? Do I condone it and endorse it? No, 628 00:28:00,678 --> 00:28:02,718 Speaker 1: But one of the things you already said it, I 629 00:28:02,718 --> 00:28:05,718 Speaker 1: mean there was other guys I know that are rallied against, 630 00:28:05,758 --> 00:28:08,158 Speaker 1: and even as as a young manager with the Devil 631 00:28:08,278 --> 00:28:11,878 Speaker 1: Rays than the Rays, I thought when MLB got more 632 00:28:11,918 --> 00:28:15,918 Speaker 1: stringent on steroid usage at that that particular junction in 633 00:28:15,958 --> 00:28:18,838 Speaker 1: two thousand six seven eight, I thought that was necessary 634 00:28:18,878 --> 00:28:21,358 Speaker 1: for the race to ascend. I thought without those that 635 00:28:21,558 --> 00:28:24,998 Speaker 1: get the MLB becoming more stringent upon the usage of 636 00:28:25,478 --> 00:28:29,038 Speaker 1: performance enhancing drugs, that in and of itself helped us 637 00:28:29,038 --> 00:28:31,518 Speaker 1: to get better because if that was not come down 638 00:28:31,518 --> 00:28:33,478 Speaker 1: on as hard as it had been, these other teams 639 00:28:33,478 --> 00:28:36,198 Speaker 1: would have continually bought these players that were using this stuff, 640 00:28:36,238 --> 00:28:37,918 Speaker 1: and it had been very difficult for us to compete 641 00:28:37,918 --> 00:28:39,878 Speaker 1: against these guys. It just would have because we're not 642 00:28:39,918 --> 00:28:42,078 Speaker 1: going to pay that amount of money for forty five 643 00:28:42,158 --> 00:28:44,678 Speaker 1: fifty sixty home runs where other groups would So it 644 00:28:44,758 --> 00:28:47,798 Speaker 1: was very important for teams in second division to ascend 645 00:28:47,998 --> 00:28:49,918 Speaker 1: teams like the Devil Rays at that time. And then 646 00:28:49,918 --> 00:28:52,958 Speaker 1: the race that particular ruling, the ability that the fact 647 00:28:53,038 --> 00:28:56,158 Speaker 1: that MLB came down so hard on steroid used permitted 648 00:28:56,158 --> 00:28:58,398 Speaker 1: the race to ascend a lot more quickly, and that 649 00:28:58,798 --> 00:29:00,758 Speaker 1: was a big part of our early success and what 650 00:29:00,838 --> 00:29:02,998 Speaker 1: we're seeing today. I gotta tell you, Joe, that is 651 00:29:03,038 --> 00:29:05,598 Speaker 1: a great point. And that's the first time I've heard that. 652 00:29:05,838 --> 00:29:08,438 Speaker 1: And listen, I've been living this thing my whole life. 653 00:29:08,438 --> 00:29:11,838 Speaker 1: It seems like this soap opera of pds and baseball, 654 00:29:12,038 --> 00:29:14,598 Speaker 1: and it's a great point. I had not thought about it, 655 00:29:14,638 --> 00:29:16,358 Speaker 1: but you made me just think about when I wrote 656 00:29:16,398 --> 00:29:18,438 Speaker 1: a story with Ken camn Iddio in two thousand and 657 00:29:18,478 --> 00:29:20,598 Speaker 1: two which kind of blew the what I called the 658 00:29:20,598 --> 00:29:22,958 Speaker 1: worst kept secret baseball out into the open. You know, 659 00:29:22,998 --> 00:29:25,718 Speaker 1: he talked about driving down the Tijuana, Mexico and just 660 00:29:25,798 --> 00:29:28,678 Speaker 1: walking into a pharmacy and buying his distoster and it 661 00:29:28,758 --> 00:29:31,078 Speaker 1: self administering. He had no idea what he was doing, 662 00:29:31,278 --> 00:29:33,958 Speaker 1: and obviously evolved to the point where these guys had chemists. 663 00:29:33,958 --> 00:29:36,798 Speaker 1: They're going to laboratories, they're having their blood drawn, their 664 00:29:36,838 --> 00:29:40,198 Speaker 1: all their levels checked. It did become an arms race 665 00:29:40,278 --> 00:29:44,638 Speaker 1: of pharmacology, and they're going to top grade scientists essentially 666 00:29:44,718 --> 00:29:47,198 Speaker 1: to get premium stuff. So it did become a matter 667 00:29:47,238 --> 00:29:50,918 Speaker 1: of resource, right, and whether you can afford that kind 668 00:29:50,958 --> 00:29:53,638 Speaker 1: of advantage, because it's not aspirate folks when you talk 669 00:29:53,678 --> 00:29:56,398 Speaker 1: about steroids. They're all kind of different levels and ways 670 00:29:56,478 --> 00:29:59,598 Speaker 1: to use and ways to obtain that are differentiated by 671 00:29:59,718 --> 00:30:02,558 Speaker 1: money and resources and availability. And then right down to 672 00:30:02,558 --> 00:30:04,918 Speaker 1: the organization itself, team that it could afford to pay 673 00:30:04,958 --> 00:30:07,558 Speaker 1: for players that have done that particular thing. Not everybody 674 00:30:07,558 --> 00:30:09,318 Speaker 1: could at that time, and the race certainly would not. 675 00:30:09,598 --> 00:30:12,438 Speaker 1: And thus I wanted a level playing field where the 676 00:30:12,478 --> 00:30:14,958 Speaker 1: team that played better baseball on that particular night gets 677 00:30:14,998 --> 00:30:17,078 Speaker 1: to win a baseball game, not a team that is 678 00:30:17,118 --> 00:30:19,718 Speaker 1: loaded with more dudes that are shut up with steroids. 679 00:30:19,758 --> 00:30:22,198 Speaker 1: That's a team that's probably gonna beat you. If in fact, 680 00:30:22,238 --> 00:30:25,078 Speaker 1: it was legal and teams were permitted to really load 681 00:30:25,158 --> 00:30:27,718 Speaker 1: up on No pun intended on those kind of guys. Yeah, 682 00:30:27,838 --> 00:30:31,318 Speaker 1: great point, Um, there's no guests today, So it's time 683 00:30:31,398 --> 00:30:34,158 Speaker 1: for a reading from the Book of Joe. So I'm 684 00:30:34,158 --> 00:30:37,598 Speaker 1: gonna ask you, Joe, to pick our number for the day, 685 00:30:37,638 --> 00:30:39,918 Speaker 1: because just to fill people in if they didn't listen 686 00:30:39,958 --> 00:30:42,678 Speaker 1: to Jason Heyward play our game last week. I believe 687 00:30:42,718 --> 00:30:44,478 Speaker 1: that in our book, the Book of Joe, there's so 688 00:30:44,598 --> 00:30:47,438 Speaker 1: much good stuff in this book that you can open 689 00:30:47,478 --> 00:30:51,118 Speaker 1: any page and find something that starts a conversation or 690 00:30:51,198 --> 00:30:53,958 Speaker 1: makes you think. It's the goal of the book. And 691 00:30:54,238 --> 00:30:56,238 Speaker 1: what we do is we go to a random page 692 00:30:56,558 --> 00:31:00,998 Speaker 1: between one and three eight and have our reading from 693 00:31:01,078 --> 00:31:03,198 Speaker 1: the Book of Joe. So, Joe, what kind of number 694 00:31:03,278 --> 00:31:06,158 Speaker 1: would you like today? I have to go with seventy. Brother, 695 00:31:06,598 --> 00:31:10,078 Speaker 1: of course, now seven zero. Tell the story how you 696 00:31:10,078 --> 00:31:12,638 Speaker 1: wound up with that as your number? By the way, yeah, 697 00:31:12,718 --> 00:31:15,758 Speaker 1: I was. I was number twenty forever. Started out in 698 00:31:15,798 --> 00:31:18,478 Speaker 1: the minor leagues at the Angels, is number twenty, minor 699 00:31:18,518 --> 00:31:21,798 Speaker 1: league catcher, coach Rover, all that stuff, And then all 700 00:31:21,798 --> 00:31:25,078 Speaker 1: of a sudden we acquired Don Sutton, and sutt comes 701 00:31:25,078 --> 00:31:26,518 Speaker 1: in and all of a sudden, I show up in 702 00:31:26,558 --> 00:31:28,718 Speaker 1: spring training one day, go to my locker and there's 703 00:31:28,798 --> 00:31:31,878 Speaker 1: number seventy in my locker. And because Don obviously was 704 00:31:31,958 --> 00:31:35,918 Speaker 1: number twenty and that's it. So the day that that occurred, 705 00:31:35,958 --> 00:31:38,318 Speaker 1: I said to people that would listen to me, I 706 00:31:38,318 --> 00:31:41,518 Speaker 1: will never change this number again because nobody's ever gonna 707 00:31:41,518 --> 00:31:43,718 Speaker 1: want number seventy and I'm gonna I'm gonna wear this, 708 00:31:43,798 --> 00:31:45,878 Speaker 1: wet this number all the way through the big leagues. 709 00:31:45,878 --> 00:31:47,958 Speaker 1: When I did get to the big leagues and ninety four, 710 00:31:48,238 --> 00:31:51,078 Speaker 1: my friend Mark Langston give me a hard time. Langley said, 711 00:31:51,078 --> 00:31:52,398 Speaker 1: you gotta give her of that number, man, That's what 712 00:31:52,638 --> 00:31:55,118 Speaker 1: I said, No, Langley, I've had this since Sutt came 713 00:31:55,118 --> 00:31:57,038 Speaker 1: on board, and since he came on board, I said, oh, 714 00:31:57,118 --> 00:31:59,838 Speaker 1: always wear this number. I'm gonna make number seventy famous. 715 00:31:59,878 --> 00:32:01,638 Speaker 1: I told that to Langley one day, and that's the 716 00:32:01,718 --> 00:32:04,278 Speaker 1: number seven he came to be. That's exactly true. I 717 00:32:04,398 --> 00:32:06,918 Speaker 1: love it. Well. You picked well. Like I said, every 718 00:32:06,918 --> 00:32:08,878 Speaker 1: page is a good page, but you picked a good page. 719 00:32:09,038 --> 00:32:11,598 Speaker 1: This goes back to the World Series Game seven, two 720 00:32:11,598 --> 00:32:15,558 Speaker 1: thousand nineteen. A J. Hinch is talking about having Garrett Cole, 721 00:32:15,918 --> 00:32:18,638 Speaker 1: his starting pitcher, in his bullpen for the seventh and 722 00:32:18,718 --> 00:32:21,478 Speaker 1: deciding game, and it's about kind of a dilemma, Joe, 723 00:32:21,518 --> 00:32:24,318 Speaker 1: that manager's face when you want to win a game 724 00:32:24,558 --> 00:32:27,478 Speaker 1: and protect the health of your players. In this case, 725 00:32:27,518 --> 00:32:29,838 Speaker 1: it's Garrett Cole who is about to become a free agent, 726 00:32:29,998 --> 00:32:34,158 Speaker 1: so his future earning power is also on the line 727 00:32:34,358 --> 00:32:36,638 Speaker 1: when it comes to can he pitched out of the 728 00:32:36,678 --> 00:32:39,598 Speaker 1: bullpen in Game seven if you remember, of course, Houston 729 00:32:39,838 --> 00:32:42,958 Speaker 1: had a lead in that game lost and Garrett Cole 730 00:32:43,118 --> 00:32:45,198 Speaker 1: never did get into the game. So here was the 731 00:32:45,278 --> 00:32:48,318 Speaker 1: quote from page seventy a J. Hinge talking about his 732 00:32:48,438 --> 00:32:51,878 Speaker 1: plan about using Garrett Cole in a potential Game seven 733 00:32:51,918 --> 00:32:55,798 Speaker 1: situation after his starting Game five in Washington. We talked 734 00:32:55,838 --> 00:32:58,518 Speaker 1: every day. There was a lot at stake, either me 735 00:32:58,598 --> 00:33:01,998 Speaker 1: in particular or the modern manager in general. We are 736 00:33:01,998 --> 00:33:04,318 Speaker 1: a little closer to the players and they were back 737 00:33:04,318 --> 00:33:06,998 Speaker 1: in the day. This creates its own set of challenges. 738 00:33:07,318 --> 00:33:10,198 Speaker 1: This isn't from Garrett. This is coming from me from 739 00:33:10,198 --> 00:33:14,158 Speaker 1: a financial standpoint. Contracts are available to everyone these days. 740 00:33:14,198 --> 00:33:18,478 Speaker 1: There's a greater knowledge and acknowledgement of outside influences with 741 00:33:18,558 --> 00:33:21,318 Speaker 1: the modern day manager. Managers didn't feel it like it 742 00:33:21,398 --> 00:33:23,878 Speaker 1: was front and center back in the day. Now there's 743 00:33:23,998 --> 00:33:29,038 Speaker 1: personal responsibility. The Houston Astros Joe lose the game. Garrett 744 00:33:29,078 --> 00:33:31,518 Speaker 1: Cole did not pitch in that game. He would have 745 00:33:31,558 --> 00:33:34,718 Speaker 1: pitched if it was a clean inning, if Houston had 746 00:33:34,838 --> 00:33:36,998 Speaker 1: a lead. They had a lead in the middle of 747 00:33:36,998 --> 00:33:39,438 Speaker 1: the eighth inning and seventh inning and and lost it, 748 00:33:39,558 --> 00:33:42,278 Speaker 1: so the opportunity did not present itself a j Hence 749 00:33:42,558 --> 00:33:46,358 Speaker 1: lost the game. Nationals win. Garrett Cole is not used 750 00:33:46,478 --> 00:33:49,358 Speaker 1: on two days of rest in that situation. Can you 751 00:33:49,438 --> 00:33:52,438 Speaker 1: relate to that situation about trying to win a game 752 00:33:52,478 --> 00:33:54,638 Speaker 1: at the same time protecting a player, whereas you know 753 00:33:54,758 --> 00:33:57,198 Speaker 1: back in the day, Joe, I don't think managers are 754 00:33:57,198 --> 00:34:00,358 Speaker 1: so concerned about that. No, Jim Lark pitches right. No, 755 00:34:00,598 --> 00:34:05,358 Speaker 1: it's I totally can empathize henchis right there, Absolutely I 756 00:34:05,398 --> 00:34:08,398 Speaker 1: can um However, I will say this, if the picture 757 00:34:08,678 --> 00:34:11,358 Speaker 1: being in a situation Cole convinced me that he was 758 00:34:11,398 --> 00:34:13,598 Speaker 1: well and he could do that, I would not have hesitated. 759 00:34:13,638 --> 00:34:14,998 Speaker 1: I don't. I really don't think I would. On the 760 00:34:15,078 --> 00:34:17,478 Speaker 1: other hand, and I totally agree with what he had said, 761 00:34:17,638 --> 00:34:20,958 Speaker 1: you're always looking out for the player's best interests, his family, 762 00:34:21,078 --> 00:34:23,278 Speaker 1: the longevity of his career, all that kind of stuff. 763 00:34:23,318 --> 00:34:27,158 Speaker 1: I absolutely have pondered that in making decisions. However, when 764 00:34:27,198 --> 00:34:29,678 Speaker 1: he gets to that particular part of the year that game. 765 00:34:29,878 --> 00:34:31,758 Speaker 1: If I was convinced that he was well, knowing that 766 00:34:31,798 --> 00:34:34,958 Speaker 1: he's gonna have all winner to be um rested, whatever, 767 00:34:35,118 --> 00:34:37,358 Speaker 1: I probably would have done it. Quite frankly, I would, 768 00:34:37,398 --> 00:34:39,398 Speaker 1: But I do. I do appreciate what he said in 769 00:34:39,758 --> 00:34:41,598 Speaker 1: and and the reason for not doing it, and I 770 00:34:41,838 --> 00:34:44,078 Speaker 1: can't disagree with that. I'm just saying I have such 771 00:34:44,118 --> 00:34:46,838 Speaker 1: a when it comes to veteran players pictures, and I 772 00:34:46,878 --> 00:34:48,838 Speaker 1: think it would be consistent with that I've said about 773 00:34:48,838 --> 00:34:51,958 Speaker 1: bullpen usage over the past and again in the Book 774 00:34:51,958 --> 00:34:53,438 Speaker 1: of Joe and stuff that had happened last year with 775 00:34:53,438 --> 00:34:55,598 Speaker 1: the Angels. If a veteran picture tells him he's good 776 00:34:55,598 --> 00:34:58,518 Speaker 1: to go, I believe him, and under those circumstances I 777 00:34:58,558 --> 00:35:01,678 Speaker 1: probably would have. But again I defend a j's right 778 00:35:01,718 --> 00:35:04,518 Speaker 1: to not use him in that situation. Yeah, it's really 779 00:35:04,558 --> 00:35:08,798 Speaker 1: interesting both perspectives, of course managers who've been in these situations. No, 780 00:35:09,038 --> 00:35:11,958 Speaker 1: And I think the book really and you specifically Joe, 781 00:35:11,998 --> 00:35:15,518 Speaker 1: does a great job of exploring what goes into decision 782 00:35:15,598 --> 00:35:18,638 Speaker 1: making in the dugout in real time because we're all 783 00:35:18,678 --> 00:35:21,078 Speaker 1: experts after the game, or we sit there with some 784 00:35:21,158 --> 00:35:23,398 Speaker 1: numbers and say, hey, he's got two hits. And seven 785 00:35:23,398 --> 00:35:25,798 Speaker 1: at bats against him in his career. But there are 786 00:35:25,998 --> 00:35:29,318 Speaker 1: so many layers to this onion when it comes to 787 00:35:29,478 --> 00:35:32,998 Speaker 1: what goes into a decision, and multiply that by the 788 00:35:33,078 --> 00:35:35,598 Speaker 1: number of decisions that have to be made across the game, 789 00:35:35,678 --> 00:35:38,078 Speaker 1: and then multiply that when you're in a winner go 790 00:35:38,158 --> 00:35:41,278 Speaker 1: home postseason game like a Game seven. So if you 791 00:35:41,358 --> 00:35:45,758 Speaker 1: really want to know what goes into so many layers 792 00:35:45,798 --> 00:35:48,398 Speaker 1: decision making in a major league dug out, you'll find 793 00:35:48,438 --> 00:35:50,078 Speaker 1: a lot of that in this book, the Book of 794 00:35:50,158 --> 00:35:53,118 Speaker 1: Joe But Tommy thank yeah, and yeah, I agreed. Um, 795 00:35:53,158 --> 00:35:56,558 Speaker 1: it is layered, it's nuunced, there's and and that's right. 796 00:35:56,558 --> 00:35:59,078 Speaker 1: I talk about field being the gift of experience and 797 00:35:59,078 --> 00:36:01,518 Speaker 1: and and why it's so important to have that, uh, 798 00:36:01,878 --> 00:36:04,238 Speaker 1: that those that time in your back pocket from so 799 00:36:04,278 --> 00:36:06,918 Speaker 1: many years of having done it in the past. It matters. 800 00:36:06,998 --> 00:36:09,558 Speaker 1: It really matters, um, because when you when you face 801 00:36:09,598 --> 00:36:12,278 Speaker 1: situations and I'm giving you this perfect example with Cole 802 00:36:12,398 --> 00:36:14,518 Speaker 1: not even having been there, what I would have done 803 00:36:14,558 --> 00:36:18,038 Speaker 1: under those circumstances, based on the recreation that you had 804 00:36:18,078 --> 00:36:20,398 Speaker 1: given me there what we had in the book, I 805 00:36:20,478 --> 00:36:23,758 Speaker 1: could not I don't think be as clear or or 806 00:36:23,958 --> 00:36:26,318 Speaker 1: certain have I had not gone through it in the 807 00:36:26,358 --> 00:36:29,558 Speaker 1: past with different guys, So that's where I think experience 808 00:36:29,558 --> 00:36:31,598 Speaker 1: really places big. Well, you made a good choice at 809 00:36:31,638 --> 00:36:34,158 Speaker 1: number seventy. It's one of my favorite passages in the 810 00:36:34,158 --> 00:36:36,958 Speaker 1: book because, as I said, against you really in depth 811 00:36:36,958 --> 00:36:39,998 Speaker 1: at what goes into decision making. So and as I said, 812 00:36:40,438 --> 00:36:42,438 Speaker 1: you can turn to any one of those three sixty 813 00:36:42,598 --> 00:36:45,558 Speaker 1: pages you'll find something interesting. So Joe, I have to 814 00:36:45,598 --> 00:36:48,638 Speaker 1: go back and start patrolling the potted plants and the 815 00:36:48,678 --> 00:36:51,318 Speaker 1: lobby again. Make sure everything is okay. See what's going 816 00:36:51,398 --> 00:36:54,278 Speaker 1: on the winter meetings here? For what do you got 817 00:36:54,318 --> 00:36:56,958 Speaker 1: for us to take us home? Yeah? I mean, actually, 818 00:36:56,998 --> 00:36:59,878 Speaker 1: this is a validation of something that we have in 819 00:36:59,918 --> 00:37:02,038 Speaker 1: the book. It's one of our chapters, and it's one 820 00:37:02,078 --> 00:37:04,398 Speaker 1: of our t shirts. What I talked about you simple 821 00:37:04,438 --> 00:37:07,878 Speaker 1: better and came across this recently and really pleased to 822 00:37:07,918 --> 00:37:10,838 Speaker 1: announce that Mr Leonardo da Vinci, back in his day, 823 00:37:10,878 --> 00:37:13,598 Speaker 1: like late four hundreds probably I think it was the 824 00:37:13,678 --> 00:37:16,718 Speaker 1: late four hundreds, I came up with simplicity is the 825 00:37:16,838 --> 00:37:21,558 Speaker 1: ultimate sophistication. Wow, so Leo had kind of the same 826 00:37:21,638 --> 00:37:23,598 Speaker 1: thought way back in the day. I'm not comparing myself 827 00:37:23,598 --> 00:37:25,678 Speaker 1: to Leo. But it's nice to be validated by a 828 00:37:25,758 --> 00:37:29,598 Speaker 1: thought like that. Amen, brother, I love it. Let's see 829 00:37:29,598 --> 00:37:31,518 Speaker 1: you next time on the Book of Joe. Alright, so 830 00:37:31,558 --> 00:37:40,118 Speaker 1: how did the boys see? Amen? The Book of Joe 831 00:37:40,198 --> 00:37:43,198 Speaker 1: podcast is a production of I Heart Radio. For more 832 00:37:43,238 --> 00:37:46,678 Speaker 1: podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, 833 00:37:46,758 --> 00:37:49,718 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.