Speaker 1: You're tuned into the Gangster Chronicles. Well, James McDonald, Rixie
Speaker 1: Reich Jr. And Alex to Monso on the Digital Soapbox
Speaker 1: Network material witness on an aggregated battery, I was a
Speaker 1: hang gun and they believe this might be in retaliation
Speaker 1: to her testimony. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening
Speaker 1: wherever you may be listening from. This is another episode
Speaker 1: of the Gangster Chronicles and you're listening to Alex Alonso
Speaker 1: and I'm here with my co host James McDonald and James,
Speaker 1: let's just get right into it, man, We've got it.
Speaker 1: We got a guest here that probably one of the
Speaker 1: premier experts on the murders of Tupac and Biggie Smalls.
Speaker 1: He is also uh he led an investigation task force
Speaker 1: investigation into these into these homicides back and I think
Speaker 1: two thousand six. Uh. He's a detective retired from the
Speaker 1: l a p D. And he wrote a book entitled
Speaker 1: The Murder Rapped, The Untold Story of Biggie Smalls and
Speaker 1: two pox of core murder Investigations. And I believe this
Speaker 1: book also inspired the TV show called Unsolved. And we
Speaker 1: have none other than Greg Hating retired l ap D.
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming down, man, Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Man took a while. James, Hey, hey, you're a busy man.
Speaker 1: Well you gether. That hard for him to know. He
Speaker 1: doing a lot of work and he's always on the airplane,
Speaker 1: much more than I would love to be. But yeah,
Speaker 1: Greg took me to Australia. Just the first guy that
Speaker 1: ever took me out to stay out anywhere as far
Speaker 1: as that matter. Very good friend of mine. Man, I
Speaker 1: really appreciated me. Helped me out a lot with a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff. Um, I don't think it can get
Speaker 1: no better. Fathers, meeting somebody and then just just having
Speaker 1: a friendship. You know what I'm saying that you know
Speaker 1: in Australia, I've seen and I was. I learned a lot,
Speaker 1: not only with Greg but with his son, with his
Speaker 1: wife Donna. Donald was the family to Australia. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: all went out there. They fell in love with James
Speaker 1: Man so he's kind of now they're adopted. They're adopted uncle. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: before we talking to the what everybody wants to hear about,
Speaker 1: and which I'm sure you spoke about many many times, Uh,
Speaker 1: talk about how this Australia tour thing came about. And
Speaker 1: this is kind of an unusual talk about that. Greg. Well,
Speaker 1: originally I had gone over to England and Ireland do
Speaker 1: a little presentation over there, and then some folks in
Speaker 1: Australia decided that they thought it might be worthwhile to
Speaker 1: go down there. A guy named Nick Noonon was the
Speaker 1: promoter of the show who we had on. He was
Speaker 1: a guest on The Gangster Chronicles, wasn't he he came,
Speaker 1: he said, yeah, he said, okay, so you know Nick, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So he put in a lot of hard working effort
Speaker 1: to get this thing going down in Australia. And I
Speaker 1: had always thought that there has got to be a
Speaker 1: different voice to this story. And you know, I can
Speaker 1: talk about it from the law enforcement perspective, but this
Speaker 1: story also needs to be told from the from the
Speaker 1: street perspective and the environment in which all this stuff
Speaker 1: took place. And so that's why, you know, the natural
Speaker 1: collaboration with James was just a you know, that was
Speaker 1: an easy transition. I had first met James actually in
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, while I was still investigating the case.
Speaker 1: I went out to Las Vegas and we had a
Speaker 1: chance to sit down and you know, I was just
Speaker 1: comparing some notes and trying to get some information to
Speaker 1: further our case. So it hasn't been short while. It's
Speaker 1: been thirteen years. And that was the beginning stages of
Speaker 1: the task force investigation that you led right when you
Speaker 1: met James. Yeah, we were just a year into it,
Speaker 1: because we started in two thousand and six, and then
Speaker 1: it was the following year that we got around to
Speaker 1: trying to, you know, help reach out and get get
Speaker 1: some help from people that we had been struggling with
Speaker 1: to get that door open. And you know, I thought, hey,
Speaker 1: well I got this guy, James McDonald's what we can tell,
Speaker 1: you know, is everything there is to know about death Row,
Speaker 1: and um, perhaps he can contribute. And it took more
Speaker 1: than a decade before you guys came together. He was
Speaker 1: the first I ever did a a a black like
Speaker 1: a black interview. I did an interview with he was
Speaker 1: the first one. That's the first one I saw. Actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: that that's the first one period. That was the best.
Speaker 1: Nice I think you put together a thirty minute clip
Speaker 1: of James. I'm sure the interview was a little longer,
Speaker 1: but that's the one where I was like James put
Speaker 1: it down in this interview. It was it was pretty.
Speaker 1: It was easier to sit down because I did it
Speaker 1: at his home and then, uh, I mean I was
Speaker 1: more comfortable than I was just sitting in the little
Speaker 1: in the little room, YadA YadA. And then it was
Speaker 1: easier because the questions that they had for me written
Speaker 1: down all I had to do it. I don't want to.
Speaker 1: I don't you know what I'm saying. So I knew
Speaker 1: what I was gonna be talking about the questions they
Speaker 1: was gonna ask. And I had my nephew there and
Speaker 1: he learned something from it. So I didn't know that
Speaker 1: it was gonna be what it was after I did
Speaker 1: the interview with him, because after that interview, so many
Speaker 1: people started calling and and wanted to do an interview. Well,
Speaker 1: that interviews almost had a million views now, right, nine
Speaker 1: hundred some thousand plus, Yeah, and he never called me
Speaker 1: back to do another one. So that was cool. Now,
Speaker 1: Like you know, I got so many people want to
Speaker 1: do an interview. I mean from from everywhere. The farthest
Speaker 1: is BBC. So I mean that interview just made me.
Speaker 1: It made me feel a whole lot better because I
Speaker 1: got a lot of ship off my chest, talking to
Speaker 1: them and and and helping and a lot of people seeing, uh,
Speaker 1: the pain that I was going through and all that.
Speaker 1: So it was easy. Were there any questions that Greg
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you that you didn't want to answer
Speaker 1: and that you would answer? Oh, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: what I what I didn't want to answer? Then I
Speaker 1: wouldn't answer. Now, no, there's something that would be told,
Speaker 1: not sold and not told and not gold and not that. No,
Speaker 1: y'all can cut that part up. And did you understand
Speaker 1: his issues with probably some of the questions that he
Speaker 1: didn't want to address with you on camera. Oh yeah, well,
Speaker 1: back the well, back in two thousand and seven, it was,
Speaker 1: you know, basically the same thing that we've been encountering
Speaker 1: throughout the case. It was just, you know, there's there's
Speaker 1: things to be taken into consideration when you're talking to
Speaker 1: the police. And so for James, obviously that was something
Speaker 1: that he had to um uh years later. Let's just
Speaker 1: say this, when when we ultimately sit down and have
Speaker 1: an on camera interview, a lot have evolved, a lot
Speaker 1: had changed then it was back in two thousand and seven,
Speaker 1: and so for us, you know, it's like finally kind
Speaker 1: of the armors being cracked a little bit you and
Speaker 1: then once you can build u the foundation of trust
Speaker 1: and respect which we didn't previously have. I was just
Speaker 1: the cop and he was just the guy from death Row,
Speaker 1: and you know, we weren't in a position at that
Speaker 1: time to get real. And so as time went by
Speaker 1: and we ultimately got to know each other, and I
Speaker 1: think he felt that I was somebody that can sit
Speaker 1: down and talk to then the doors opened. Was that
Speaker 1: your first interview ever? Ever? Ever? And that interview changed me? Period.
Speaker 1: It changed a lot of things about me. Uh, it
Speaker 1: helped me unleash a lot of in your head, especially
Speaker 1: with my brother. Uh, I was dealing with a sure
Speaker 1: knight was. I hated him so much at that time,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, And it just it just
Speaker 1: helped me. You know, I said a lot of things
Speaker 1: that I didn't want to say to other people, and
Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna never say. But when my mom's teld
Speaker 1: me it was time to maybe you need to talk
Speaker 1: and get it out off your chest. And I did
Speaker 1: that and it worked and should look at me now,
Speaker 1: I mean I'm sitting there really talking and expressing my
Speaker 1: feelings and everything out to not just only my family,
Speaker 1: but people all over the world. I don't know if
Speaker 1: Greg knows us, but that interview you did with James
Speaker 1: catapulted him to be right here, right now doing this podcast,
Speaker 1: because that's really what got the ball rolling, because that
Speaker 1: led to other interviews, led to other interviews, which led
Speaker 1: to the producer seeing him and him and blad Man.
Speaker 1: I shout out to Blad They both they it worked
Speaker 1: for me. It worked for me. Now I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: actually talking just like man, just tell everybody everything now
Speaker 1: before we get into some of these other questions. Um,
Speaker 1: was the Australia tour success in terms of financial and
Speaker 1: when you guys continue and go to other cities? To me,
Speaker 1: it was yeah. To me, it was I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: we talked about the only instant and I had which
Speaker 1: the people in Australia fixed that I didn't have to
Speaker 1: say anything, and the love I was getting from Greg
Speaker 1: and his family, and then you know, with with Nick
Speaker 1: and everybody out there. Man, I've seen different people talk
Speaker 1: to different people different places. How many places we went to? Hey,
Speaker 1: we had six cities and and all of them was
Speaker 1: brand new to me. So I was loving it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you gotta brother out here. Just
Speaker 1: everything's uh squeaky clean and everybody was nice and I
Speaker 1: loved it. So what's what's next? Where to go next? Well,
Speaker 1: we gotta call yesterday, um, potentially to go to Scotland,
Speaker 1: so that would be cool. I've been over to the
Speaker 1: UK before, but I've never been to Scotland, so I'm
Speaker 1: looking forward to getting an email later on today and
Speaker 1: you know, trying to figure out the logistics of it all.
Speaker 1: But I'd like to take take James out there and
Speaker 1: do the same thing. It's interest in the Park and
Speaker 1: Biggie Hamasa. It's stronger abroad than it is here in
Speaker 1: the US because maybe too many Americans are just tired
Speaker 1: of hearing about it over and over where a tour,
Speaker 1: a multi city tour in the US might not be
Speaker 1: as successful as going to Europe Australia. Yeah, well you
Speaker 1: know these guys, both Park and Big or just their
Speaker 1: international superstars, you know, and so it's really interesting, you know,
Speaker 1: like in Germany, Um, Biggie's more popular. It's it's a
Speaker 1: it's a it's a strange thing that there's these just
Speaker 1: different little dynamics that take place at different places around
Speaker 1: the world. In Japan and all of these, you know,
Speaker 1: places that don't even speak a common language, are still
Speaker 1: these guys are iconic, and their superstars and so and
Speaker 1: then of course the mystery surrounding their deaths is another
Speaker 1: whole area of interest to people. So I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's more popular over there than it is here.
Speaker 1: I just do know that this story never seems to
Speaker 1: fade out. It doesn't seem to die, and there's always
Speaker 1: a insatiable appetite to know more about it and to
Speaker 1: learn more about these guys, both as human beings and
Speaker 1: as artists, but also about hopefully finding some closure and
Speaker 1: what happened in there in the end. I don't think
Speaker 1: the story will ever fade because these guys were in
Speaker 1: their prime when they were murdered. You could actually say
Speaker 1: they were the number two and number number one and
Speaker 1: number two rappers on Earth, which is kind of crazy
Speaker 1: that you're number one and number two rappers get murdered
Speaker 1: within six months of each other. That's a story to
Speaker 1: tell for the next hundred years. So I don't think
Speaker 1: he'll ever die down. I don't, I don't. I mean,
Speaker 1: you got new documentaries being made right now on to
Speaker 1: day about two parking Biggie. What more is it to
Speaker 1: till about two parking Biggie. They've been going twenty three years,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, but it's still coming. And
Speaker 1: like in Australia, the people were way different. They aspect
Speaker 1: was way different than what we have now. They was
Speaker 1: like so stoked about it. They you know, wanted to
Speaker 1: hear and wanted to understand the story of why. So
Speaker 1: I think that's what was was was good for us
Speaker 1: out there in Australia. We brung let's stay closer to
Speaker 1: some people or some people had a better understanding after
Speaker 1: the show was over or what really happened, because why
Speaker 1: Greg was was talking and he said and showed on
Speaker 1: on this on this uh just uh yeah, now they
Speaker 1: see from his aspect of it, then from me coming
Speaker 1: in and then they listened to where I was coming
Speaker 1: from and why these guys was getting killed and why
Speaker 1: things was happening in his neighborhood. They was pretty much
Speaker 1: kind of like blowed away, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And I thought, man, it was it was the people
Speaker 1: out there wanted more than what you got out of here. Well,
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the the live slow Burn
Speaker 1: I guess presentation that it was crazy. But before we
Speaker 1: get into that, I just want to let all the
Speaker 1: listeners and viewers know that this is episode forty five
Speaker 1: of The Gangster Chronicles and for those who are listening
Speaker 1: to us on iTunes, please give us a rating and review.
Speaker 1: We're also available on Google Play for Samsung and Android users,
Speaker 1: Spotify as well, and you could also listen to this show.
Speaker 1: My mom is actually using Alexa, so if you have
Speaker 1: an Alexa, just just say it. Just say Alexa play
Speaker 1: the Gangster Chronicles and it will come up. And you
Speaker 1: could also listen and follow the show on the Himalaya app.
Speaker 1: Just go to your app store and download the free app.
Speaker 1: Himalaya has a red icon with the letters Hi in
Speaker 1: it and you can follow us there and you can
Speaker 1: watch video portions of this show. Um the Digital Soapbox
Speaker 1: Network which you're produced by Smooth Cut Productions, and on
Speaker 1: that platform we also have merchandise for The Gangster Chronicles
Speaker 1: T shirts, hoodies and at cetera and um so last
Speaker 1: night was extremely interesting conversation between you, Greg Hatting, the
Speaker 1: author of Murder Rap, and also with Randall Sullivan, the
Speaker 1: author of Labyrinth. Um Russell's book came out first and
Speaker 1: then yours came out actually within the last five years,
Speaker 1: I think, and James, these two were going at it
Speaker 1: last night. It was so it was so damn funny.
Speaker 1: But if people this was what people need to see,
Speaker 1: just that little bit last night, what you need to see.
Speaker 1: Not not taking up for you, but I got all
Speaker 1: these documents right here. Yeah, this is what you have.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. So you can't you you
Speaker 1: there was no way for him to investigate all this
Speaker 1: ship that that was being you're talking about Sullivan Sullivan,
Speaker 1: So how did you come up? And I thought we
Speaker 1: was gonna be able to, you know, do a little
Speaker 1: que and they were a mother get up and say
Speaker 1: something because I wanted to say something bad. Where'd you
Speaker 1: getting your information from? And that's what people fail to realize.
Speaker 1: Like I told the guy I did the show was over,
Speaker 1: the one that was up there, I didn't know his
Speaker 1: name that did the show, where do y'all get your
Speaker 1: information from? Everybody keep talking about how they're doing the information,
Speaker 1: how to how to gather information, and they're talking to
Speaker 1: these people and talking to these people when the hell
Speaker 1: y'all talking to y'all. The only way y'all could talk
Speaker 1: and get something is like, how Greg did talk to
Speaker 1: the people that were involved. You can't talk to people
Speaker 1: that weren't there. How can you come to California and
Speaker 1: say you got information on on what happened on the
Speaker 1: third of nineteen seven. You you don't have no clue.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't there, you was at home. You just flew out.
Speaker 1: Well to Randall Sullivan's defense, and I'm not defending him
Speaker 1: or the book, he did have an l a p
Speaker 1: D detective, just like grag Hating was. That was his
Speaker 1: main source. And we're talking about Russell Pool. So he
Speaker 1: feels very confident. I got an l APD source, a
Speaker 1: detective Russell Pool. Greg Cating's a lap D. He wrote
Speaker 1: his book. So it's kind of like a battle of
Speaker 1: ideas they should be. But I'm sure right now Greg
Speaker 1: is gonna explain to us why they weren't on the
Speaker 1: same page. And I just want to shout out Joel Anderson,
Speaker 1: who was moderating between you and Randall. Um, So go ahead,
Speaker 1: tell tell James and I why you guys, Russell Pool
Speaker 1: and Randall Sullivan are not on the same page. And
Speaker 1: Russell Pool is no longer alive. For those who don't know,
Speaker 1: he died of natural causes several years ago. Right, So
Speaker 1: Russell Pool back at the time that Biggie was murdered,
Speaker 1: shortly thereafter him and his partner inherited their responsibility of
Speaker 1: investigating the case. And then russ is only on it
Speaker 1: for a short period of time relatives less than a year,
Speaker 1: less than a year. And you know, he had some
Speaker 1: leads that he needed to fall up, follow up on,
Speaker 1: and as a result of some of the information that
Speaker 1: he was attaining, he began to draw these conclusions. And
Speaker 1: through that process, because of things that were happening in
Speaker 1: his own personal life and his professional life, he was
Speaker 1: removed from the task force. And so he only had
Speaker 1: this nine or ten months to work with and not
Speaker 1: to you know, not to h criticize anything that he did.
Speaker 1: He was just going through the motions. But I, in contrast,
Speaker 1: I was ten years down the road, and so I
Speaker 1: had the advantage that he never had. I had ten
Speaker 1: years of investigative effort to evaluate, assess, and then look back.
Speaker 1: I could see everything from hindsight. He was limited to
Speaker 1: this this perspective that he saw for nine months. I
Speaker 1: had ten years, and in that period of time. Over
Speaker 1: that ten years, there was multiple ever their investigations going on.
Speaker 1: There was a huge racketeering investigation of death oh by
Speaker 1: the FBI and the a t F. They were interviewing
Speaker 1: all kinds of people, and a lot of the information
Speaker 1: that was contained in that investigation affected or had influence
Speaker 1: on the murder investigations. And then of course the Rampart
Speaker 1: scandal came out, and then all these allegations about cops
Speaker 1: being involved in Biggie's murders, and so that whole investigation
Speaker 1: I had access to. So I had things that Randall
Speaker 1: soul I'm sorry that both Randall Sulivan and Russell Pool
Speaker 1: couldn't have dreamed of, you know, having at their disposal
Speaker 1: in order to get a better picture of what took place.
Speaker 1: They were limited, and from that limited perspective they drew conclusions,
Speaker 1: and these conclusions were demonstrably wrong, and they then began
Speaker 1: to advocate allegations against people that were factually innocent. And
Speaker 1: that's where I take issue. I don't have a problem
Speaker 1: with somebody having an opinion about it, going out and
Speaker 1: doing your own research, you know, whatever, but before you
Speaker 1: start false the accusing innocent people of these heinous crimes,
Speaker 1: you got you better have your fucking facts straight. Can
Speaker 1: you give us some specific examples of that. Who were
Speaker 1: some of the people that he was thrown under the bus,
Speaker 1: whether that be Russell Pool or Randall Sullivan, well both
Speaker 1: of them collectively. Um, you know Shrita Knite for one,
Speaker 1: you know, being accused of being involved in in in
Speaker 1: uh In Sugar's attempted murder. Uh, it's just it's it's ludicrous.
Speaker 1: Reggie Right, you know, obviously Reggie Right, it's no saint.
Speaker 1: He's a person that it should be accountable for things
Speaker 1: that he's done in his life. But I've also got
Speaker 1: to vindicate Reggie Right, because I know for a fact
Speaker 1: he had nothing to do with these crimes. And in fact,
Speaker 1: Reggie was very helpful in the process of this investigation.
Speaker 1: Reggie had been interviewed a dozen times by different people
Speaker 1: from different agencies. And one thing that I can say
Speaker 1: about Reggie is that we never found him to lie.
Speaker 1: He wasn't always entirely truthful, he wouldn't tell us everything
Speaker 1: he knew, but he never lied. He never sent us
Speaker 1: down the wrong path, the wrong direction. I respected that,
Speaker 1: I understood that he couldn't tell us some things because
Speaker 1: he's got his own life and issues to deal with.
Speaker 1: But he never he never lied and uh And then
Speaker 1: of course the most um affected by all this was
Speaker 1: an individual name Amir Mohammed who was was a close
Speaker 1: friend of David Max who was this disgraced l a
Speaker 1: p D. Detective Harry billips Man in the cloud of
Speaker 1: suspicion that he had to live under as a result
Speaker 1: of the claims that were in Labyrinth and as a
Speaker 1: result of the claims that Russell Pool and uh Um
Speaker 1: Randall Sullivan continued to publish. It was just irresponsible, reckless
Speaker 1: and you know, in my opinion criminal a question, now,
Speaker 1: would it be safe to say that all the things
Speaker 1: that was going on with the police department are in
Speaker 1: the police department? Did that throw the police department off
Speaker 1: the investigation off of of trying to catch the Tupac
Speaker 1: and Biggie uh killers, because it seemed like more the
Speaker 1: police were more at it then they you know, they
Speaker 1: wasn't like they were more at it with each other.
Speaker 1: Like this guy, he was such a dick last night.
Speaker 1: I keep forgetting his name. I don't even want to remember. Yes,
Speaker 1: he was such a big I mean he was very irritating.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he irritated you, but just not
Speaker 1: to let no one talk. But I mean, do you
Speaker 1: think just back to where I was at that what
Speaker 1: was going on in the police department, did that have
Speaker 1: anything to do with your investigations? And but yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean there were distractions that place. The rampart thing, there
Speaker 1: was a distraction. There's a lot of unnecessary um time
Speaker 1: spent um going down dead ends. So do you think
Speaker 1: that's why people was looking at saying that the police
Speaker 1: one of the theories that the police killed uh Biggie Tupac. Well,
Speaker 1: you have to follow up on those leads, you know,
Speaker 1: when information comes in and if it's circumstantial or compelling,
Speaker 1: like for instance, just this is what happened with David Mac.
Speaker 1: David Mac commits a bank robbery right shortly thereafter. He's
Speaker 1: posing in a picture and he's got this red fedora
Speaker 1: hat on, he's got this red suit on and his
Speaker 1: prison letters that he's sending home. He's Westside riders and
Speaker 1: people in prison that he's selled up with. He's he's
Speaker 1: gang straight up and so okay, what's going on with
Speaker 1: this guy? And then you have other jailhouse informants coming
Speaker 1: forward and going, yeah, David Mac told me that he
Speaker 1: is involved in Biggie's murder. You know Sugar. He attends
Speaker 1: parties with Sugar, and so we don't know if that's
Speaker 1: true or not. That we have to go through the
Speaker 1: motions of determining where it is and invalidating that information.
Speaker 1: So you have to go through those motions, and but
Speaker 1: you can't draw conclusions just off what a jail house
Speaker 1: informant tells you. And in time, um, at least with
Speaker 1: this case, all of these guys turned out to be
Speaker 1: lying because they were motivated by like, well, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to move out of this prison in order to get
Speaker 1: closer to home, so and go to this prison. They
Speaker 1: all had their own motives and uh, you know, this
Speaker 1: was a high profile case and they thought if they
Speaker 1: threw their name in the half that law enforcement would
Speaker 1: help them with their situations. That was the game that
Speaker 1: was played on more than one occasion and with more
Speaker 1: than one informant, and that really muddied the waters. That
Speaker 1: made it very difficult to stay on track with the
Speaker 1: investigation because you're constantly going in these different directions based
Speaker 1: on these these claims. I have a follow up, woman,
Speaker 1: We've got to follow him up, you know. So you know,
Speaker 1: David mac was somebody that needed to be looked into.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, uh, you know
Speaker 1: what I found with guys like Russell Pool and guys
Speaker 1: like Randall Sullivan, once they develop a theory, they dig
Speaker 1: their fucking heels in no matter what information refutes their theory.
Speaker 1: Typical policing, I find that in a lot of cases
Speaker 1: that I work. One when we investigate a particular defendant
Speaker 1: and we find out, maybe you should look at this
Speaker 1: other defendant, they're stuck on who they think did it,
Speaker 1: and they're going to trial with it no matter whatever
Speaker 1: evidence we present to them the show hey, this guy
Speaker 1: might be innocent, but this other guy might be worth
Speaker 1: looking at. They don't want to look. Yeah, it is unfortunately,
Speaker 1: don't know if that's a human condition or what. But
Speaker 1: once you've invested in something, you don't want to accept
Speaker 1: the idea that ship I was wrong, and I put
Speaker 1: a bunch of time and energy and effort into something
Speaker 1: that is ultimately wrong. And so I think that that
Speaker 1: is often the case, And and this is what I've
Speaker 1: always said about Russell Pool. You know, I'm not here
Speaker 1: to shoot on the guy. I'm just saying that he
Speaker 1: lost his objectivity. And it's very clear through what happened
Speaker 1: in this investigation that he formed a conclusion built on
Speaker 1: selective information, and he dug his heels and said this
Speaker 1: is what and and that led to people being falsely accused.
Speaker 1: And actually I actually believe that Amer Muhammed was the
Speaker 1: triggered person of Biggie for a couple of years and
Speaker 1: it felt, it felt real. They linked them to an
Speaker 1: ss apollo somehow, some kind of way. Um. They said
Speaker 1: he dressed like the Nation of Islam. They had a
Speaker 1: compositive sketch that looked like Amir Mohammed, and I was like, okay.
Speaker 1: And then years later I find out about um pooch
Speaker 1: and that the pooch theory sounds way more plausible than
Speaker 1: the Amir Mohammed. But yeah, I believe that Harry billips
Speaker 1: Mohammed was the killer in the beginning. Yeah, and a
Speaker 1: lot of people did. Because you were only you were
Speaker 1: only given the information that supported that narrative. And that's
Speaker 1: what the book does. It just gives you the information
Speaker 1: that supports that narrative. What the book doesn't, what Around
Speaker 1: the Sun's book doesn't tell you, is that that information
Speaker 1: came from a clinically diagnosed schizophrenic, you know, and who
Speaker 1: was in prison and had a bunch of his own
Speaker 1: um psychological issues to deal with, and right off the
Speaker 1: bat he was discredited by the l a p d.
Speaker 1: As a reliable source. In that case, he lost his pension,
Speaker 1: He lost everything, and just for his case, he dedicated
Speaker 1: hisself for that, I mean he did. He quit the
Speaker 1: police war. Yeah, he walked away prematurely. He was just
Speaker 1: less than a year short of his pension, which goes
Speaker 1: to show you where he was at Manor. You know,
Speaker 1: he lost his objectivity, He was frustrated with the department.
Speaker 1: He saw everything as a big cover up, and in
Speaker 1: fact it was just these are the natural processes of
Speaker 1: these investigations. You know, in law enforcement, there's um all
Speaker 1: kinds of different um protocols that have to be followed.
Speaker 1: You know, there's checks and balances, and he just didn't
Speaker 1: fully understand that evidently and walked away from the job.
Speaker 1: I say this, if they investigated every murder of a
Speaker 1: black man or a teenager, that that we have every
Speaker 1: day then we it wouldn't be no more crime. Now, Gregg,
Speaker 1: did you ever track down Amhammed and interview him and
Speaker 1: talk to him, because I don't think we've ever seen
Speaker 1: him give an interview where I don't think you've ever
Speaker 1: publicly spoke to just clear his name, to say you
Speaker 1: don't have to clear his name and his name is
Speaker 1: not saying well, well to both your points. I have
Speaker 1: spoken to him at length, and I've asked him. I
Speaker 1: was like, hey, and uh, this is what I did
Speaker 1: with Reggie back in the day. I was like, Gregg,
Speaker 1: you need to get out there and defend yourself. You know,
Speaker 1: you've got to let people out here questioning whether you
Speaker 1: are actually involved in these things, and the best to
Speaker 1: advocate for your defense is you, So get out there
Speaker 1: and start defending yourself. And he did, and I think
Speaker 1: he made some headwight. I think that he was able
Speaker 1: to sway people's opinions. But to him getting indicted, I
Speaker 1: didn't marijuana have kind of made it. It didn't might
Speaker 1: have been a step backwards from here to defend the show.
Speaker 1: But you know the truth of the matter is just
Speaker 1: because you do something wrong doesn't necessarily mean you did
Speaker 1: you know? And that's always been my point is that
Speaker 1: we all make mistakes and that but because we make mistakes,
Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily mean that, uh you know that we
Speaker 1: that we're cold blooded murders. And that's the equation that
Speaker 1: people dry will look at Reggie right Jr. He's a
Speaker 1: drug trafficker. Well it makes sense to you then, I
Speaker 1: believe it don't matter whether you're police, are firement whatever
Speaker 1: occupation you hold, don't mean you don't have that that
Speaker 1: gainst mentality in you, you know what I'm saying. And
Speaker 1: Reggie got a little I'd say, Reggie and everybody else
Speaker 1: do the David Max of of today. You got cash
Speaker 1: that that firemans will shoot you. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It don't take nothing to have against mentality, you know,
Speaker 1: it just all depends on the individual. Well, I never
Speaker 1: believe Reggie Wright had anything to do with any of
Speaker 1: these shoes, just it just never the dots never connected
Speaker 1: from me. Yeah, and there was never a time within
Speaker 1: law enforcement that he was a suspect either. So how
Speaker 1: did this other than Randall's book and and um, it's
Speaker 1: all through jail house informants. They were throwing Reggie under
Speaker 1: the bus. So those guys all had an incentive, I guess,
Speaker 1: to try to get out of jail early. But when
Speaker 1: you throw out a foul theory does not help the
Speaker 1: the inimating custody, does it, um, It really depends. Most
Speaker 1: of these guys are you know, known snitches, so they
Speaker 1: you know, they're in protective housing. A lot of times
Speaker 1: we gotta take this call. I'm sorry to cut you.
Speaker 1: Let me just I got Reggie right, this call liquid
Speaker 1: and the subject to monitory hang up to decline the call.
Speaker 1: What do you accept? Nile five? Now? All right, so
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, we got a call from Reggie Wright Jr.
Speaker 1: From a federal correctional facility. What's going on, Reggie? You
Speaker 1: tell me? Hey, the first thing I wanted. The first
Speaker 1: thing I want to say is that that video that
Speaker 1: you and John on bomb First were talking about had
Speaker 1: nothing to do with me. You already know, Oh, he
Speaker 1: already knows. Okay, apologize to you. Yeah, yeah, John sent me.
Speaker 1: He sent me a text message apologizing, but I don't
Speaker 1: think we addressed it on the Gangster chronicles. Well, I
Speaker 1: just wanted to say, never said any of those things
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with me. I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's because the other guy's name is Alex, I don't know,
Speaker 1: but yeah, we got hey, we got Griggs sitting here
Speaker 1: with us. All right, man, I'm gonna talk Jane, come on,
Speaker 1: because you called me. Tell him how how he thinks
Speaker 1: only Gang Vegas is Jesus stuff. I heard he's been
Speaker 1: on land and the landa and you know how Ship
Speaker 1: was a whim herself growing up and didn't have no
Speaker 1: street creds him and Nick Cannon then they comes and
Speaker 1: depending over on land stuff, and um, we say, I
Speaker 1: said she didn't have no street cred. Yeah, but anyway,
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about that. We're gonna talk to Greg.
Speaker 1: Katie's great. Well Greg. Greg didn't have a mic right now,
Speaker 1: so so it's not gonna be uh unless we can.
Speaker 1: There you go, Greg out a mic, now, let's call
Speaker 1: let's yeah, as long as they could hear me, because
Speaker 1: you know, to be honest and nigga's broke, I only
Speaker 1: got a twelve two minutes left from my phone. So okay,
Speaker 1: well before you do that, dude, I got some stuff out.
Speaker 1: I know, shut up, you know, and to shut up
Speaker 1: over here. I got something for your twelve minutes. Check
Speaker 1: this out, gangst the chronicles is your family right, I
Speaker 1: don't want to you're gonna listen or your twil minutes
Speaker 1: gonna be fucked. Let me tell you something, dude. If
Speaker 1: you don't call me, if you don't write me, and
Speaker 1: you don't watch calling, we're stopping your motherfucking check. I
Speaker 1: am a Hollywood upset that you don't call and say
Speaker 1: nothing to me. Nothing I said Texas to you don't
Speaker 1: have my wife? Said Texas your wife? Your wife? Yes?
Speaker 1: She did? You know what's her last week? You know?
Speaker 1: Dr Greg? If I don't get it, if I don't
Speaker 1: get a letter, talk to Greg? You any how many
Speaker 1: peal when uh uh uh they did quick this thing
Speaker 1: in front of the everybody, the source of awards and
Speaker 1: all of that, and you're honestly talking, I'll be having
Speaker 1: question of industry questions. How does being nice and cool
Speaker 1: with everybody? I got the questions to keep going to here? Okay,
Speaker 1: that's and that's why you take that ship to bomb first.
Speaker 1: You know, Cody Doug, I don't have opinion on Yeah,
Speaker 1: you got opinion on gains the coronal. That ain't what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Are you being serious now? Are you just
Speaker 1: talking ship? Hey, reg. One of the things we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about with Greg all the ridiculous theories in these
Speaker 1: uh homicides, and I guess the Reggie Wright theory as
Speaker 1: being involved, and we're gonna we're gonna talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about that, and I'm sure Greg has some things
Speaker 1: to say about how that's one of the dumbest theories
Speaker 1: that anyone put out there. Let me have some let
Speaker 1: me let me talk for questions and and then and
Speaker 1: then for the other drifting, then we can go over
Speaker 1: that the fucking Then I want to make sure you
Speaker 1: go over with Greg for me. Go ahead, Uhcative producer
Speaker 1: James mccumb now, go ahead, go ahead, Rex. You only
Speaker 1: got about nine minutes. Yeah, cool, all right? Uh um, Greg,
Speaker 1: how you doing? Then? When I want, I want to
Speaker 1: tell you your boy James, uh he spoke real highly
Speaker 1: and how will you and his wife said his son
Speaker 1: treated him over in Australia and he came back with
Speaker 1: a lot of praises respect for you guys man from
Speaker 1: that Australia. True, I appreciate that, young good time, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but if you could also addressed to the people, probably uh, well,
Speaker 1: I want to tell y'all talk about Jeane de overre
Speaker 1: being getting this roles lately about me. If you know
Speaker 1: people been here about that. I heard about that, but
Speaker 1: I know Greggy heard about that. I don't care about that.
Speaker 1: And then I wanted you to also just may to
Speaker 1: the people, why uh why you guys? You know that
Speaker 1: your Jean uh deal the third picture, you know, the
Speaker 1: other picture for the third time. But that's what his
Speaker 1: big claim of fame is how everybody grew up because
Speaker 1: he picked out somebody another picture that was shown to him.
Speaker 1: And you don't understand how this credibility he got shot
Speaker 1: because he identified two people prior two different people or
Speaker 1: different people prior to that. And so if you can
Speaker 1: explain to the people about that, and then the main
Speaker 1: thing here, you know that guy feel Carson is about
Speaker 1: to come out with that FBI Russell Pool uh you know,
Speaker 1: you know that's that's gut feel carsing from the FBI
Speaker 1: about to come out with a four hour interview they've
Speaker 1: been waiting on and talking about. If you can explain
Speaker 1: to the people how you know his credibility is, how
Speaker 1: easy Russell food good? FBI? You know what's what's you
Speaker 1: can explain what I mean by that meeting that they
Speaker 1: don't have no credibility, just getting go down on one
Speaker 1: track mind and don't have a different number opinion or whatever.
Speaker 1: And then if you can explain the situation on how
Speaker 1: you feel about keeps and confession, you can just talk
Speaker 1: about that. That why people won't buy that, know, you know,
Speaker 1: because people don't understand why you know, he hasn't been
Speaker 1: prosecuted as either came out. They don't really understand a
Speaker 1: confessional loans. You know, it's hard. It's hard for d
Speaker 1: A to pick up it just predictions. Okay, those those
Speaker 1: talk about those things. But but yeah, but you know,
Speaker 1: whatever questions you'll had or want to talk about, James
Speaker 1: mustn't go over there. For some reason, James is cool
Speaker 1: about well, Reggie, we're listening to we're listening to you
Speaker 1: rid okay, but I can't slept you said you right now?
Speaker 1: Wait an wait, it's more important than anything. I don't know.
Speaker 1: If Jake Turpey want to take domes about the count, um,
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And then the other thing was, um, Mountry,
Speaker 1: I don't know James mine that bunty. They need to
Speaker 1: have a reason when they had a picky for a birthday. Yeah,
Speaker 1: his birthday was February fair. Yeah, I know sometime ever. Okay, cool, okay, Reggie,
Speaker 1: We're gonna hit off all four of those points. But
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about We didn't get to
Speaker 1: talk about this since the last time you called in,
Speaker 1: but you said you had been walking the track and
Speaker 1: I think you said you had lost fourteen pounds back then.
Speaker 1: Are you still on your workout? Two has been thacated
Speaker 1: in twenty two four. I'm thinking a little bit about that,
Speaker 1: but probably work out a little bit on and change
Speaker 1: my regiment. But I'm looked about pounds and go back
Speaker 1: and forth and it on one day in the week
Speaker 1: it is and uter about two miles and the hand
Speaker 1: with ja. Let me think about here, man, they'd be
Speaker 1: working out. They like animals. They be doing for beast
Speaker 1: James trying to tell me to learn the game of
Speaker 1: chess and kino pinuccio whenever they call it. That's all
Speaker 1: anything is doing around here. So we got to do
Speaker 1: around here. Wait, you never learned how to play chess?
Speaker 1: I okay, man, sit down and play chess. You're turning
Speaker 1: to go a lot faster. Yeah, they that's all they do, James,
Speaker 1: And he was right about that when you told me
Speaker 1: on that coming here you learn how to play chess.
Speaker 1: If you don't do that. Now they played a lot
Speaker 1: of chess. So do you have a new release date, Reggie,
Speaker 1: I haven't got the official one, so don't think they
Speaker 1: don't want a halfway house did come, but I'm soldiable
Speaker 1: anywhere after September, but shootings are so so crowded. Getting
Speaker 1: out the probably sometime in October, but I'm hoping for
Speaker 1: September right now, so the black September the first, but
Speaker 1: more likely in October. I'm twenty Optober and October I'll
Speaker 1: be out in a halfway out by that time. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm the work your boy Lee Baker's in al Paso, Texas.
Speaker 1: Baker Lee Baker's and El Paso, Texas. I don't need text.
Speaker 1: He had a prison camp one, yes, I believe it's
Speaker 1: a camp. I think he's in the camp just like yours. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The thing about that man about they got a new
Speaker 1: first step active out and people that's over sixty now
Speaker 1: they get out, they only do two thursdays the time
Speaker 1: now that they get sent he won't be an. They
Speaker 1: let people out like crazy. I'm doing two thursdays, two
Speaker 1: Thursday time will over the age of sixty already went on.
Speaker 1: It won't be as much as as so that means
Speaker 1: Lee Baker should be out. I think he was sentenced
Speaker 1: to three so it's two thirds of the eight or
Speaker 1: two thirds of the three years. That's a good question.
Speaker 1: I uh, I don't think, le Bob. This is how
Speaker 1: how often is the number one cop go to prison
Speaker 1: out of a police department he's from, but he's in
Speaker 1: our Pasto, Texas? He just turned himself in and do
Speaker 1: his time, all right? What else is on your mind?
Speaker 1: Ranch um man? I guess just what I wanted to
Speaker 1: get off. Oh my boy, James. I heard people even
Speaker 1: Land and Not about his interview was like Land up,
Speaker 1: They're going to Nick Cannon about that. So so Nick
Speaker 1: Cannon go up there just because I said some well,
Speaker 1: he's not going to get you, and they were just
Speaker 1: pretty much said, wasn't well. I mean, I'll say against
Speaker 1: the chronicle, Shug wasn't born a bread like we were.
Speaker 1: Sugar was not a streetcat like we were. Sugar was
Speaker 1: not carry a pistol cat like we were. No that's
Speaker 1: that wasn't That wasn't the questions. I mean, at that
Speaker 1: time I lived and and all of us lived the
Speaker 1: game banging life. She would never lived the game banging life.
Speaker 1: And if anybody can tell me he did, then I'm wrong,
Speaker 1: and I would apologize. She would never carry the red bandanna.
Speaker 1: She would never got in that car and then to
Speaker 1: drive by. She would when cut for that. That's what
Speaker 1: I was saying. So if people want to take that wrong, man,
Speaker 1: I ain't say she would win fight after the fact
Speaker 1: or whatever. But everybody know that Ronald and Donald was
Speaker 1: was lost. Yep. In fact, his time was up. That's cool,
Speaker 1: you know. I just hate that when people take something
Speaker 1: I say and then they just get it all misgans
Speaker 1: through Sheild was never a carry your pistol type of cat.
Speaker 1: Shugar Gant never had a gun in his waist, in
Speaker 1: a red rag in his back pocket, or from who's
Speaker 1: out there claiming that he was. Well, these people saying
Speaker 1: sugar is a game, whoever they are. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you didn't live the neighborhood or or or live how
Speaker 1: we live, then you can't you don't know. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1: So the last thing was have you had a chance
Speaker 1: to meet Amir Muhammad Harry Billips and talked to him
Speaker 1: and what was that like you I've had a number
Speaker 1: of conversations with him, Um, the latest I think was
Speaker 1: just a few days ago actually, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: he's living out in Georgia and um, just living his
Speaker 1: life and taking care of his family and trying to
Speaker 1: avoid all this, and I think he thought it was
Speaker 1: all behind him until this most recent book came out
Speaker 1: by Randal Sullivan and just resurrecting all of these old claims.
Speaker 1: And so I did the same thing with him that
Speaker 1: I've did with Red J. Said, you need to get
Speaker 1: out there and defend yourself, man, publicly defend yoursel of
Speaker 1: because when people see you and hear you, they're going
Speaker 1: to have a completely different impression than what they have
Speaker 1: by what they've been told in these books. You sit down.
Speaker 1: He's very intelligent guy, very articulate, very kind and respectful.
Speaker 1: He's educated. You know, there's nothing about him at all
Speaker 1: that resonates like wow, that sounds like you know somebody
Speaker 1: who would have done this. It's not that impression that
Speaker 1: you get. And then, of course we know factually, just
Speaker 1: because of all the evidence that was proposed to stand
Speaker 1: up against him was all you know, disproven, But I
Speaker 1: think that for him, his decision is just to stay,
Speaker 1: stay in the cut and not not come out and
Speaker 1: do anything about it. So, James, what do you think
Speaker 1: about that? Because Reggie Wright decided because Reggie Wright was
Speaker 1: quiet for many many years, no one had heard from him,
Speaker 1: and he decided to come out defend himself. But for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, Harry Billips hasn't publicly said a word. Am
Speaker 1: I right at that? He's never publicly said a word. No.
Speaker 1: The only thing he's ever done in his own defense
Speaker 1: is he went to a deposition. He was summoned to
Speaker 1: a deposition as a result of the Wallace lawsuit. He
Speaker 1: went to the deposition, and almost immediately after that deposition,
Speaker 1: he was dropped from the lawsuit. What do you think
Speaker 1: about that, James? Uh, two different approaches. Reggie decided to
Speaker 1: defend himself, Harry Billups Amber Homma decides it really all
Speaker 1: depends on the person. He he just don't want to
Speaker 1: deal with it. Um. Reggie was like that at first two.
Speaker 1: But then when when you told Reggie need to get
Speaker 1: out to and defend itself, Reggie took it. Reggie is
Speaker 1: smashing everybody that got something to say to him. So
Speaker 1: Reggie found a way to deal with it. And that's
Speaker 1: his way, you know, getting that improvement to to everybody
Speaker 1: that this person is woo you. You ain't good enough
Speaker 1: to talk about me like that. So I advised people
Speaker 1: not to talk about Reggie. But this guy, why why
Speaker 1: go out there and start talking? And then some you
Speaker 1: take the smallest thing and make it out of something
Speaker 1: real big. And then now he's really in the loop.
Speaker 1: Oh you heard he said this. He's doing the right thing.
Speaker 1: Live your life, don't worry about what nobody else got
Speaker 1: to say about you, and just do you stay away
Speaker 1: from all this Just unfortunate that you have people out
Speaker 1: here trying to eat off something that would that happened
Speaker 1: twenty three years ago, and and they don't realize that
Speaker 1: it's still effective. People that are still alive today. You know,
Speaker 1: it's hurting him so and they don't take into consideration
Speaker 1: that it's not just him. He's got a wife, he's
Speaker 1: got kids, he's got neighbors, he's got co workers. And
Speaker 1: people talk and they'll form opinions off of what they've
Speaker 1: been told. And that's where I again, that's where I
Speaker 1: take issue with these guys that factually, um, he's completely innocent,
Speaker 1: he's so exonerated that uh, the fact that these people
Speaker 1: are still pursuing and advocating for that bullshit story, it's
Speaker 1: so responsible and disrespectful. So I haven't had a chance
Speaker 1: to look at Randall's new book, but um, I'm sure
Speaker 1: you've read everything. Is he repeating some of the same
Speaker 1: stuff in the Labyrinth book in the new book as well? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like the sequel. It's just the same narrative,
Speaker 1: same storyline that the conspiracy has grown massively. Now it's
Speaker 1: just not a dirty cop and and uh in his
Speaker 1: high school or his college buddy. Um, now it's a
Speaker 1: dirty cop is college buddy? The United States Attorney's Office,
Speaker 1: the FBI, the l A p D, the district attorneys,
Speaker 1: all these Now it's there's two hundred people involved in
Speaker 1: this conspiracy who are all agreen to risk their reputations,
Speaker 1: their careers, in their lives to cover up for David Mack.
Speaker 1: And this is not a novel, Okay, it sounds like
Speaker 1: a novel the way describe it. It's it's it's ludicrous,
Speaker 1: you know, the the idea that all of these people
Speaker 1: who most of who don't even know each other, from
Speaker 1: all of these different walks of life, all these different
Speaker 1: agencies are all going to collectively agree that we need
Speaker 1: to we need to suppress all this information in order
Speaker 1: to protect David MCINTOMR Muhammed no last Um. At that
Speaker 1: slow Burn event, it seemed like you guys must have
Speaker 1: a history. It wasn't just that one night you guys
Speaker 1: went at it. Can you explain the history that you
Speaker 1: and Mr Sullivan have to where it seems like as
Speaker 1: soon as you guys are on the same stage, you're
Speaker 1: going at it. Where what's the history light between you guys?
Speaker 1: There's no personal history. I've never met him before, I've
Speaker 1: never talked to him before. In fact, that was one
Speaker 1: of my points last night on the stage. I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, you're publishing all of this. You have information,
Speaker 1: and you should if you're a responsible journalist and you
Speaker 1: really want to find out the truth, you need to
Speaker 1: get as many different perspectives on things as you can.
Speaker 1: If somebody's accused of something, you need to go talk
Speaker 1: to that person and get their side of the story right.
Speaker 1: And you know, he makes these wild accusations against me,
Speaker 1: He never made any attempt whatsoever to come and talk
Speaker 1: to me to say, hey, Greg, well this is what
Speaker 1: I heard. I'm going to write a book. You have
Speaker 1: an opportunity here to either correct this or provide at
Speaker 1: least your perspective on it. That's what you do when
Speaker 1: you're looking for the truth. That's what you do when
Speaker 1: you want to publish something with a responsible, objective perspective.
Speaker 1: It's not what they do. What they want to do
Speaker 1: is continue with this bullshit narrative that's completely disproven and
Speaker 1: in the hopes that they can continue to um mislead
Speaker 1: people into believing this wild ass theory about this huge
Speaker 1: cover up. What was your first reaction, James, after um,
Speaker 1: seeing Randall Sullivan and Greg k and go at it
Speaker 1: for about what was about maybe twenty minutes. I don't
Speaker 1: even know how long that last it was. It was,
Speaker 1: but it was short, and I have a video of it. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna see if I could have permission from slow
Speaker 1: Burn to post that on my channel, UM, because I
Speaker 1: thought it was compelling, and it was. It was crazy.
Speaker 1: I was just just go back because I'm looking at him,
Speaker 1: and then right here you see Greg got a hold
Speaker 1: of wayman, I got that for that, But he just
Speaker 1: got this book with like he was taking notes on
Speaker 1: what he wanted to last out about. And when he
Speaker 1: started off, he tried to what do you what did
Speaker 1: he tell? You said? He was like crazy or something?
Speaker 1: He what, what's so disrespect And that's what so often
Speaker 1: happens in these type of either debates or you know,
Speaker 1: these these arguments, is that when they can't disprove your facts,
Speaker 1: then they just personally attack you. And that seems to
Speaker 1: be the approach that they take. Well, we can't disprove
Speaker 1: the facts, so now we have to smear his reputation,
Speaker 1: like that one part where he was talking about miss
Speaker 1: Wallace and the the the table was supposed to be
Speaker 1: hitting or whatever. Now when she's seen that, she got mad.
Speaker 1: And a lot of people don't know that, but people
Speaker 1: think that the purpose of of talking to her and
Speaker 1: doing with her, are you coming in is to discredit
Speaker 1: that so they can drop the lawsuit. And once the
Speaker 1: lawsuit was dropped down, he got shenanigans again. But what
Speaker 1: when she didn't know that that about the hidden tape?
Speaker 1: Explain that how that went last night? Yeah, so during
Speaker 1: the trial, there was a there was a allegation that
Speaker 1: the l a p D was suppressing some evidence to
Speaker 1: the wall the biggest that after Big It was killed
Speaker 1: and the book Labyrinth was published. Based on the information
Speaker 1: in the book, it compelled an attorney to contact Mrs
Speaker 1: Wallace and say, look, if if these claims are true,
Speaker 1: then the l a p D is culpable in the
Speaker 1: murder of your son. We have to assume him. That
Speaker 1: led to a lawsuit in two thousand and two roughly,
Speaker 1: and so that lawsuit, as it began to go through
Speaker 1: the motions of court, UM got to a point where
Speaker 1: their attorneys argued that we were suppressing evidence. So they
Speaker 1: came to the police department on the judge's orders, and
Speaker 1: they found some material that was in the UM the
Speaker 1: desk of the investigator that was assigned to the case
Speaker 1: at the time, a guy named Stephen Katz, And they
Speaker 1: found a tape from a jailhouse informant named Kenneth Boulogney.
Speaker 1: So they made this big deal about it. Look it, man,
Speaker 1: here's proof they're suppressing evidence. Like this detective interviewed a
Speaker 1: guy and this guy says that Rafael Perez was involved
Speaker 1: in this murder. And you're familiar with Rafael Perez, the
Speaker 1: rampart scandal guy, and so that went you know, to court,
Speaker 1: and the judge was like, hell, yeah, this is clearly
Speaker 1: um inappropriate suppression of evidence. So she issued a sanction
Speaker 1: against the city for like a million dollars and declared
Speaker 1: a mistrial. Well, shortly thereafter, the attorneys for the city
Speaker 1: came in and said, well, hold a minute, here's the
Speaker 1: evidence that this stuff had been turned over. We weren't
Speaker 1: hiding anything, and all of this material is readily available,
Speaker 1: was distributed through different channels in the l a p D.
Speaker 1: And the judge then said, well, you know, she realized
Speaker 1: that she been played and uh that the damage was done.
Speaker 1: The mistrial was declared, and now it was a matter
Speaker 1: of putting everything back in motion. So that's what took place. Um.
Speaker 1: But to my point, like last night, you've got him saying, well,
Speaker 1: you know this this really rare ammo out there that
Speaker 1: Biggie was killed with. It's never been seen before, it's
Speaker 1: so unique, which is all bullshit. There was stores all
Speaker 1: over the South County that that had that ammunition available
Speaker 1: to anybody that walked in and wanted to buy it.
Speaker 1: And then I pulled out the documents showing it. Look
Speaker 1: just within a few months of Biggie's murder that ammunition
Speaker 1: was showing up on other crime scenes. So really, how
Speaker 1: rare is that it's not? Well, they was making it
Speaker 1: seem like that that dad Emmore was only used that
Speaker 1: one time and they haven't seen it in California. That
Speaker 1: was their claim that it's never been used in the
Speaker 1: history of the United States and any type of crime.
Speaker 1: That was the gun that was used to kill Pac
Speaker 1: ever recovered because on the A and E documentary The
Speaker 1: One Who Killed Tupac, hosted by Benjamin Crump, civil rights attorney,
Speaker 1: they claim to have found the gun in the backyard
Speaker 1: of a South Side Confident crips house. Yeah, so there
Speaker 1: was never conclusively proven to be the gun. There was
Speaker 1: good reason to believe it could have been because there
Speaker 1: was issues with Corey Edwards. He was the individual who
Speaker 1: was out in Las Vegas with the rest of the
Speaker 1: South Side crips when Pac was shot, and Corey Edwards
Speaker 1: was really he wasn't down with all that, he wasn't
Speaker 1: trying to be part of that, and so they thought
Speaker 1: he was kind of ranking out. And so when the
Speaker 1: murder went down and Corey had kind of distanced himself
Speaker 1: from it. They saw they saw that he was just
Speaker 1: maybe too soft or whatever, and uh, the gun may
Speaker 1: have been tossed in his backyard just to kind of
Speaker 1: funk with him. That was the working theory. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's true or not. But a forty caliber
Speaker 1: clock was found in the backyard of his girlfriend's parents house,
Speaker 1: actually in Compton, and we recovered the gun, and actually
Speaker 1: Compton had recovered the gun. We took it to Las
Speaker 1: Vegas to test it and compared against the ballistics in
Speaker 1: Tupax case. But the analysts out in Las Vegas said
Speaker 1: that it wasn't a match. So we had to we
Speaker 1: had to accept that. I had to accept it, even
Speaker 1: though there's been rumors that the Las Vegas just an
Speaker 1: attorney's office doesn't even want to touch this case. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I again, I have to just stick with
Speaker 1: what we're being told. I can't make that. I can't
Speaker 1: draw that conclusion that they're intentionally um because they have
Speaker 1: nothing to gain to even charge anyone in this because
Speaker 1: everyone has to be dragged back to Vegas the trial
Speaker 1: would take place there, and this is just a city
Speaker 1: that doesn't want that type of attention. Yeah, and at
Speaker 1: this point in time, there's really nobody to drag back,
Speaker 1: you know, other than kyp D and his own confessions
Speaker 1: of his involvement. The other guys in the car are
Speaker 1: all dead. Um a guy who gave the gun to
Speaker 1: kip D, he's dead. Von Zip. Yeah. So all of
Speaker 1: these guys that would potentially be their co conspirators or
Speaker 1: co defendants, they're all gone, and there's no real witnesses
Speaker 1: who can come and say, yeah, I was there. Kep
Speaker 1: D was the one who was in the car and
Speaker 1: had the gun and was participating in the murder. So
Speaker 1: you've basically got kif D testifying against kif D. Hard
Speaker 1: case to to take to court. Did you ever find
Speaker 1: the car, the white Cadillac I believe it was a
Speaker 1: rental car. Did you ever track it down through vin
Speaker 1: number or anything to see if there's any forensics on
Speaker 1: that car? No, Unfortunately, I think that's an area that
Speaker 1: maybe the ball got dropped on Las Vegas. Part by
Speaker 1: the time we came onto the scene, you know, we're
Speaker 1: ten years after the fact, So to go back and
Speaker 1: try to get records on a rental car from ten
Speaker 1: years those don't exist. They're purged out of the system.
Speaker 1: So it's impossible then to know because that car might
Speaker 1: be sitting in someone's backyard or might be in the junkyard,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah now these days, Yeah, that's that was
Speaker 1: a long time ago. Did nobody have no license plate number?
Speaker 1: Nothing to find that car? The first person that's seen
Speaker 1: that car was me at the six SI. You saw
Speaker 1: the white catillet. They was there. Yeah, they was there
Speaker 1: and being chased and all of that. And would nobody
Speaker 1: thinking about getting no license plate number? But since it
Speaker 1: was a rental car, it would be a scene. It
Speaker 1: would be a car that would be easily name but
Speaker 1: you gotta know whose name it is. That was? That
Speaker 1: was That's pretty much hard though, Alex. There was some
Speaker 1: information that probably could have been followed up on better.
Speaker 1: Was that the driver of that car got named Terence Brown.
Speaker 1: They called him bubble up Um t Brown. His mom.
Speaker 1: It could have it was either his mother or his
Speaker 1: mother in law was the one who actually had rented
Speaker 1: the car over at the enterprise at l A X.
Speaker 1: And so if we hadn't known that, or if law
Speaker 1: enforcement had known that back at the time, potentially they
Speaker 1: could have run down that lead and found out that
Speaker 1: there was a connection between T. Brown in the car
Speaker 1: that would have been monumental. But even still for y'all
Speaker 1: records today, can y'all go back and look and see
Speaker 1: if that was a white CATLLC whatever color was to
Speaker 1: make the monitor whole note, Yeah, no, because all those
Speaker 1: records were purged. You know, those rental car companies after
Speaker 1: a period of time, they just purged their records. They
Speaker 1: don't keep them indefinitely for you know, two decades. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but Enterprise, for example, takes all their cars that are
Speaker 1: like a two years old and they put them on
Speaker 1: an Enterprise lot and then they sell them to the public.
Speaker 1: Right that those records still exist because then you have
Speaker 1: to track who would you sell it to. You had
Speaker 1: to put insurance on the car, there has to be
Speaker 1: a payment plan, so that means it was financed, so
Speaker 1: there's got to be records on I guess the point
Speaker 1: I'm trying to make is that first you'd have to
Speaker 1: go to the rental or to Enterprise and say here's
Speaker 1: a name that's purged. So if you were to go
Speaker 1: to them and say, hey, twenty years ago, they'd be
Speaker 1: we don't have those records of Mrs Brown and that's
Speaker 1: the only way where you're gonna be able to track
Speaker 1: the car, because through her name is about this you
Speaker 1: have well you've learned about this in two thousand six,
Speaker 1: two thousand seven, two thou nine, So thirteen years later,
Speaker 1: you know that they rented a car from Enterprise, a
Speaker 1: white Cadillac Cadillac. How many of them could there have been?
Speaker 1: And they have records of all the vent numbers. They
Speaker 1: probably don't have a record of who rented it, but
Speaker 1: the identity of the car should still be recorded somewhere,
Speaker 1: right with the VN number and the license plate. Yeah, theoretically,
Speaker 1: you're right that even if they got the card, I mean,
Speaker 1: thirteen years later, you ain't gonna get none offer of it.
Speaker 1: Well apparently they got shot back at. I'm just I'm
Speaker 1: just looking at it as a piece of evidence that
Speaker 1: was never looked at. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So let's say that you were able to do that.
Speaker 1: From a practical standpoint. Let's say you identify the car
Speaker 1: and it still exists and you could go recover it.
Speaker 1: That connects you to Terence Brown, right, who's dead. Connects
Speaker 1: you to keyfe D by way of you know, his
Speaker 1: own confession of saying he's in that car. So what
Speaker 1: does that actually do as far as a potential prosecution?
Speaker 1: What's the value of that knowledge or that evidence today?
Speaker 1: It's too late. Yeah, well in two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: what youre to Terence Brown get killed? He died in
Speaker 1: Uh it was just a few years ago. Really, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was still alive. He was still alive. That's correct. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's correct, And I'll just concede to the fact that
Speaker 1: that effort wasn't made. Yeah, let's get to some of
Speaker 1: Reggie's points that he wanted you would cover. I guess
Speaker 1: this first one. M Gene Deal been doing a lot
Speaker 1: of talking on this case lately, and I'm you don't
Speaker 1: want to want to even coming on that care because
Speaker 1: I don't know him, he uh said, some said, I don't.
Speaker 1: I ain't ever seen this, dude, I don't care nothing
Speaker 1: about this. You live in New York. When the fun?
Speaker 1: What is you talking about? Uh? Fun? Reggie and James.
Speaker 1: She said that he said this a couple of months ago.
Speaker 1: But I'm not gonna even reply to that because you
Speaker 1: don't know me to say that. If that's how you feel,
Speaker 1: I mean, Jene Deal can come against Chronicles to sit
Speaker 1: out and we could talk. He could bring his people,
Speaker 1: but after the fact, we can move this table. And
Speaker 1: Jene Deal had in his business. That's the only way
Speaker 1: you can talk to me and talk. Ship. I don't
Speaker 1: want to hear that ship. Ain't gonna be no studio gangster.
Speaker 1: I ain't gonna be talking from Gangster Chronicles to Yo
Speaker 1: Little ragged As podcast or whatever you're doing on your
Speaker 1: couch and and and just go back and forth. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna do none of that ship. But yeah, he's
Speaker 1: been talking. So I went and looked up Jane Deal
Speaker 1: and Mace and the video. Why that Mace got on
Speaker 1: this video and was telling him y'all had guns too.
Speaker 1: Why y'all didn't shoot at the cat that shot Biggie?
Speaker 1: They actually sit there and watch Biggie get shot. Nobody
Speaker 1: don't know that, but mag put it out there. Y'all
Speaker 1: had guns, y'all the security. Why y'all didn't shoot this dude? Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know. But for anyone who's forty five and under,
Speaker 1: they don't know who Mace is. But Mace was one
Speaker 1: of the top rappers on bad Boy Records in early nineties.
Speaker 1: I think he was actually on before Biggie was on,
Speaker 1: but um, I guess um Gene Deal was present when
Speaker 1: Biggie got killed. Gene Deal was the bodyguard for bad
Speaker 1: Boy for Puff. So even though I know you don't
Speaker 1: want to hear nothing he got to say, Um, do
Speaker 1: you think he has any value greg of being present
Speaker 1: and what his story is? Of course, you know, whatever
Speaker 1: his observations were that night need to be um taken
Speaker 1: into consideration. You know, he did have this encounter or
Speaker 1: you know, kind of a soft encounter with a guy
Speaker 1: that he perceived um as a nation of Islam. In
Speaker 1: his original statement with his he said, yeah, he was
Speaker 1: dressed like a guy from a nation of Islam, but
Speaker 1: I don't think he was because he wasn't acting like one.
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. I don't know what
Speaker 1: a Nation of Islam guy acts like. That's any different
Speaker 1: than the next guy who might be standing there with
Speaker 1: a bow tie. So I'm not sure exactly what that means,
Speaker 1: but that was his statement. I don't think he was
Speaker 1: a real n o I because of the way that
Speaker 1: he was acting. But he says, a guy in a
Speaker 1: bow tie came walking up, looked suspicious and you have
Speaker 1: to keep in mind that the previous night there was
Speaker 1: a confrontation with some guys from the Nation of Islam
Speaker 1: and bad Boy at the Shrine auditorium, So that's already
Speaker 1: in his mind as a bodyguard, as a security guy
Speaker 1: looking for threats, they've already had an encounter he sees
Speaker 1: a guy makes him uncomfortable, and that that individual kind
Speaker 1: of looks over at him and then turns around and
Speaker 1: walks up the eat in the direction of where they
Speaker 1: shooting would ultimately take place. So, yeah, that's great information,
Speaker 1: that's important information to know. But what ends up happening
Speaker 1: is over time that story continues to just evolve and change,
Speaker 1: and that's where it becomes problematic. You know, we have
Speaker 1: his original interview and we retained everything he said. It's
Speaker 1: all recorded, and the things that he's saying now and
Speaker 1: has been saying are not consistent with what he originally said.
Speaker 1: And so you've got to ask yourself, well, then, what's
Speaker 1: the motivation? Why are things changing? Is it just to
Speaker 1: stay relevant? Is it to be sensational? Is it to
Speaker 1: get clicks? You know, because your story shouldn't be changing
Speaker 1: that much, wouldn't Little sees Little Caesar, who was part
Speaker 1: of the Biggie camp, didn't he say something similar about
Speaker 1: a guy from the Nation of Islam? And I think
Speaker 1: this kind of promotes the Harry Billups theory Mohammed theory
Speaker 1: because to this day, Jeane Deal believes a meyor Muhammed
Speaker 1: was the shoot her. Am I right about that. Uh, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure if he truly believes at he's
Speaker 1: kind of committed to it now because of the fact
Speaker 1: that he identified him and said it's the shooter. So
Speaker 1: he's never going to change that, regardless of the evidence
Speaker 1: that you know works against that. That thought, um, But
Speaker 1: there may be some legitimacy to the idea that a
Speaker 1: Nation of Islam guy real or not real, um, was
Speaker 1: somehow involved in what took place. I don't think that
Speaker 1: Pucci would have been in a position if he's sitting
Speaker 1: in his car to know exactly where Biggie was sitting.
Speaker 1: So maybe Pucci had to look out, maybe somebody was spotting,
Speaker 1: and so I can't discount that. All I can tell
Speaker 1: you with absolute confidence is that that guy that he
Speaker 1: saw from the Nation of Islam was not a mere Mohammed.
Speaker 1: But last night you did say that both shootings. The
Speaker 1: pock and Biggie have conspirators, the theory that Pooch was
Speaker 1: alone in that car when you shot Biggie, but you
Speaker 1: believe they are conspirators in the Pucci shooting, It makes
Speaker 1: the most sense to think there's at least one other
Speaker 1: um co conspirator, that somebody else may have been out
Speaker 1: on foot and said, okay, listen, we're watching. Because you
Speaker 1: gotta keep in mind that it took a while for
Speaker 1: them to get in their cars and to get out
Speaker 1: onto the street and to pull away. Somebody would have
Speaker 1: had to be in a position to say, hey, it's
Speaker 1: the second suburban bigs in the right front seat, so
Speaker 1: you know, because Pucci is not going to be in
Speaker 1: a position to go into the parking lot, see where
Speaker 1: they're at, then run get his car, get back out
Speaker 1: on the street, and be in a position to do
Speaker 1: what he did. So it would make the most sense
Speaker 1: that there is probably some communication between the car and
Speaker 1: somebody out there watching much and directly where big is at.
Speaker 1: Although there's a little bit of video tape from somebody
Speaker 1: that was standing across the street from the Peterson Museum,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like fifteen seconds twenty seconds. Was
Speaker 1: that video useful at all? I mean, you could hear
Speaker 1: the number of shots, but other than that, was it useful?
Speaker 1: What it was because it it showed, for one, the
Speaker 1: kind of mayhem that was going on around there. He
Speaker 1: saw the amount of people going on and all of
Speaker 1: the activity. You see Puffy pull out of the parking
Speaker 1: lot and they're just kind of posted up for a
Speaker 1: minute out in the middle of the street waiting for
Speaker 1: Biggis suburban to pull up behind him. So you capture
Speaker 1: all of this, and so you can see clearly where
Speaker 1: Puffy's at in the in the car, you can see
Speaker 1: where his driver is at, and then you see where
Speaker 1: the shooting takes place, which is right there at the corner,
Speaker 1: because they keep the video rolling as everybody's jumping out
Speaker 1: of their cars running over to Big and trying to
Speaker 1: attend to him. So, yeah, there's value in it, for sure.
Speaker 1: Every piece of information is potentially valuable. Okay, Gene Deal
Speaker 1: saying that he saw I mean Mohammed shooting Puffy, I
Speaker 1: mean Biggie. No, Jean's not saying that. Jean's saying that
Speaker 1: the guy that he saw that walked up and caused
Speaker 1: him to um you know, caused him to take note
Speaker 1: is a mere Mohammed? So why they put him out
Speaker 1: there like he's a killer? Mere Mohammed? Why do they
Speaker 1: put him out there like a killer? If nobody said
Speaker 1: he was the driver demanded pulled up and pop nine
Speaker 1: times because I know ain't nobody in that car looked
Speaker 1: ahead up and say, oh that was him? I oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know him from a tea? Why the shots was going?
Speaker 1: So how has they they paint him to be the killer?
Speaker 1: So circumstantially what ends up happening is Little Sis, who's
Speaker 1: in the best position to actually see the shooter. He's
Speaker 1: right behind Biggie in the rear passenger seats, so that
Speaker 1: in Paula would have pulled right up alongside. So the
Speaker 1: shooting takes place, and Little s says, ship, I ducked
Speaker 1: like anybody would. But there was that moment when I
Speaker 1: looked over and I glimpsed at the shooter and he
Speaker 1: was wearing Nation of Islam type of attire. To reenactment
Speaker 1: of that, because you're a cold cat that should have
Speaker 1: been and look at somebody that's dumping on you. I've
Speaker 1: been in that situation many times, and I'm not finished,
Speaker 1: keep my head up to see who's shooting it me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it might have been if if you know, if
Speaker 1: we just take this, if if we do reenact this
Speaker 1: in our minds and imagine that you're sitting in the
Speaker 1: backseat of that suburban and you happen to look over
Speaker 1: in the shooting hasn't taken place yet, but you just
Speaker 1: happened to notice the car pulling up alongside of you,
Speaker 1: and you see a guy in a suit, and then
Speaker 1: the gun comes out and then you dock. So there's
Speaker 1: there's a plausible um reality that maybe maybe c saw
Speaker 1: what he said he saw. Yeah, I mean that would
Speaker 1: be two seconds, maybe just two seconds. Is that enough
Speaker 1: to get a glimpse of somebody and send the prison
Speaker 1: for the rest of their life? No, but how often
Speaker 1: does a few seconds of eyewitness testimony help land a conviction?
Speaker 1: And it does people get convicted? Yeah? Well that in
Speaker 1: that in consideration with other information, you know, because you've
Speaker 1: got hopefully yeah, hopefully. Um. So you have him go
Speaker 1: in little cease in g money, Gregory Young who was
Speaker 1: the driver of Big East car. Um. They go and
Speaker 1: sit down with a forensic um artist and they draft
Speaker 1: up a couple of composites. Well, you look at these composites,
Speaker 1: and you know, you can see what you want to see.
Speaker 1: You know that they could be There's a lot of
Speaker 1: people could look like these guys, because the two composites
Speaker 1: don't necessarily even look alike. So that's problematic in itself.
Speaker 1: But one of them does look like Harry Billips exactly.
Speaker 1: And whoever did that composite didn't know anything about Harry
Speaker 1: Billips Mohammed. So is it just a coincidence that Little
Speaker 1: sees Gene Deal, whoever gave the information to the artist
Speaker 1: that's the shape of his head, There's there's a resemblance. Well,
Speaker 1: so this becomes even more difficult because the way that
Speaker 1: this individual is described by Eugene Deal does not match
Speaker 1: the individual that Little Ce saw. So their descriptions aren't consistent.
Speaker 1: So now you're like, okay, well, Eugene Deal believes that
Speaker 1: this guy that walked up was potentially the shooter and
Speaker 1: identify as a mere Mohammed, right, Well, in their descriptions
Speaker 1: they're not consistent. So you have to take all these
Speaker 1: things into consideration and try to work through, you know,
Speaker 1: how how do people's impressions affected, How is the lighting
Speaker 1: how quick this took place. And the best thing to
Speaker 1: actually do um as an investigator is to sit and
Speaker 1: listen to these guys talk, not just take um. They're
Speaker 1: written statements like hey, he said he looked twenty four
Speaker 1: to five of a grayish too maybe light suit. When
Speaker 1: you listen to their actual interview tapes and you hear
Speaker 1: their voices, you get a very clear impression that they
Speaker 1: didn't see anything exactly. Number one, Gene Deal is given
Speaker 1: a description of the man that he's so standing by,
Speaker 1: not at the shooter. What differences do that make? And
Speaker 1: then once again his his uh sketch is totally different
Speaker 1: from the picture that the other guy did. You know?
Speaker 1: His description? So what is his purpose? You feel me? Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: Eugene Deal, I'm sorry to catch off, but since we
Speaker 1: were here talking about Eugene Deal, after you know, the
Speaker 1: investigators had interviewed him several times, they took a six
Speaker 1: pack a photo lineup to him and displayed that and
Speaker 1: he picked out a guy in one of the positions
Speaker 1: that investigators knew had absolutely just some random guy had
Speaker 1: nothing to do at all with this murder. But Eugene
Speaker 1: Deal says, yeah, that's that's what the guy looked like
Speaker 1: and so now you've got at least what Eugene Deal's
Speaker 1: impression of that individual was. That guy looks nothing like
Speaker 1: Kamir Mohammed. So then down the road years later, Eugene
Speaker 1: Deal sees a picture of him, your Mohammed and says,
Speaker 1: that's the guy. Well, if that's the guy, why does
Speaker 1: he look so much different than the original guy that
Speaker 1: you said looked like him? And then you find out
Speaker 1: that Eugene Deal saw a picture of Mir Mohammed in
Speaker 1: XL magazine prior to seeing him in this photographic lineup,
Speaker 1: so he's seen the same picture twice, and then saying, well,
Speaker 1: XL magazine is identifying this guy potentially as the killer. Well,
Speaker 1: here he is in the sixth back. Yep, that's the guy.
Speaker 1: So what percent are you confident that the shooter was
Speaker 1: wardel fus Puci Like, if you were going to put
Speaker 1: a number on it, I'm really confident. I'm not as
Speaker 1: confident um as I am with Orlando Anderson in Tupac,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, there's just absolutely no doubt whatsoever
Speaker 1: confident on that. But you can't say that Ford fos So,
Speaker 1: wardel fust I'm probably closer to only because nobody can
Speaker 1: positively identify him as the shooter as we do with Orlando, right, Um,
Speaker 1: but because of the you know, the information that was
Speaker 1: provided by the intermediary by Sug's female accomplice, her description
Speaker 1: of everything, and her um statement that it was Wardell Fauss,
Speaker 1: that it was Pucci that she paid to do the hit,
Speaker 1: and then Pucci's own individual background as a hitter for
Speaker 1: Sugar and being suspected of doing a whole bunch of
Speaker 1: other murders. Well, he's definitely capable of doing it if
Speaker 1: it's the profile of somebody that would carry out something
Speaker 1: like that. So those things collectively make the best case
Speaker 1: for who the shooter is because aside from him, we
Speaker 1: don't have anybody else. Yeah, it's certainly not a Mohammed.
Speaker 1: That's conclusively been disproven that that is a dent. It's
Speaker 1: not even chance he's the one. There's not even a
Speaker 1: point five percent chance that he's the one. There's a
Speaker 1: second point here that Reggie wanted us to address. James,
Speaker 1: I don't I'm not familiar with this. Phil Carson, former
Speaker 1: FBI agent UH has a theory on this that I
Speaker 1: guess alignes with Randall Sullivan's Yeah, you know, Um, again,
Speaker 1: I don't know this individual, never met him, so I
Speaker 1: can only criticize him professionally. And I think that he,
Speaker 1: like Russell Poole, has formed an opinion based on very loose,
Speaker 1: circumstantial information and then refuses to accept the information that
Speaker 1: refutes that, and so he just sees one big, massive
Speaker 1: conspiracy that that's that on its face is completely unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Now you can you can understand some people might find
Speaker 1: it difficult that you're criticizing professionally a trained FBI agent,
Speaker 1: someone that should see everything you're saying. But you're saying,
Speaker 1: even though this guy's an FBI agent, trained by the
Speaker 1: most powerful government on Earth, he still got it wrong. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's exactly what I'm saying. And I'll tell you why. First,
Speaker 1: when he came on, you know, he he wasn't on
Speaker 1: the job or any when you know, he was a
Speaker 1: young agent when he was assigned this case, and he
Speaker 1: came out of white collar crimes. Now all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: he's dealing with this whole other element. And uh, and
Speaker 1: of course, um, he's given he's given this informant and
Speaker 1: he puts all of his puts all of his credibility
Speaker 1: on this informant. Well, this informant is absolutely disproven, and
Speaker 1: you know we can unwrap that and I can demonstrate
Speaker 1: to you how we can conclusively, um say that Michael
Speaker 1: Robinson was the name of this informant was lying in
Speaker 1: regard to this case. Is it is it normal for
Speaker 1: the police to find the case I try to solve
Speaker 1: a case after twenty three years? Why they don't just
Speaker 1: let it go? Well, for Phil Carson, he came onto
Speaker 1: this case back in um, you know, around the time
Speaker 1: that the lawsuit was being waged, because he read into
Speaker 1: these claims against police corruption and read into Russell Pool's
Speaker 1: allegations that David Mack was So he opened up his
Speaker 1: own FBI investigation into the l a p D to
Speaker 1: probe into corruption and he began to uncover things that
Speaker 1: in his mind was substantiating these claims. But he was
Speaker 1: relying on people who were lying and instead of just
Speaker 1: accept and realized at some point in time that you
Speaker 1: know what I've been, Um, I've lost my objectivity. And
Speaker 1: that's exactly what happened to Russell Pool. And so now
Speaker 1: all we have is an FBI version of Russell Pool
Speaker 1: out there who refuses to accept the known facts instead
Speaker 1: of the speculation that is driving his narrative. Well, the
Speaker 1: last thing out the Reggie Wright wanted you to touch on.
Speaker 1: And I guess we we've talked about this on the
Speaker 1: show before, Keep you DS confession. Um we get we
Speaker 1: get U. Yeah, And I'm sure you've talked about it many,
Speaker 1: many many times. And by the way, let me let
Speaker 1: everybody know that I have keep you D ready to do.
Speaker 1: Keep you D sit down me and Keep you D
Speaker 1: gonna shit down at the round table where we're gonna
Speaker 1: discuss the Is that right I'm saying? Is that right? Yeah? Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he'd be here tonight. Okay, Well, one question I do
Speaker 1: have about keep D confession is why did it get leaked?
Speaker 1: Did you leak it? And did I mean that information
Speaker 1: being out there put to keep D in a very
Speaker 1: dangerous situation, something that he didn't even know he was
Speaker 1: being recorded at all the entire time. So how did
Speaker 1: it become public? This confession? So when we sat down
Speaker 1: with keip e D, myself, the FBI, kep DS lawyer,
Speaker 1: we sat down under what's known as a proper agreement
Speaker 1: and he um divulged all of the details about what
Speaker 1: took place in Las Vegas the night Tupac was shot.
Speaker 1: At that point in time, it's we're just going through
Speaker 1: the investigative Um, we're just going through the kind of
Speaker 1: investigative process. Until I retired and I came to the
Speaker 1: realization that these these crimes, the public is never going
Speaker 1: to know what we did in this investigation, in the
Speaker 1: information that we attained, and so I took it upon myself,
Speaker 1: said you listen. And I went and met with KPD
Speaker 1: before I did it. By the way, he knew that
Speaker 1: I was releasing the information. I went to his house. Um,
Speaker 1: we sat in my truck and I said, here's the deal. Um,
Speaker 1: you're never going to probably get prosecuted on this, but
Speaker 1: I'm going to expose what you did. And uh, I said,
Speaker 1: I'm just letting you know ahead of time. I'm writing
Speaker 1: a book and I'm going to tell the story. And listen,
Speaker 1: you got a huge break on the on the dope
Speaker 1: case that we built against you, which was to life.
Speaker 1: You're walking away on a murder. So if if the
Speaker 1: punishment for you is that the public knows the truth
Speaker 1: about what you did, well then that's just the way
Speaker 1: it's gonna be. But he should have made him even
Speaker 1: it shouldn't have hurt him. And that's not the part
Speaker 1: that's hurting kepd situation. It's just the fact that people
Speaker 1: know that he said that when the police and discussed
Speaker 1: his nephew. That's that's what's hurting him. Yeah. Well, I
Speaker 1: think it's two things that's gonna hurt Kepd for the
Speaker 1: rest of his life. One that he got exposed as
Speaker 1: an informant in some in some way. Not everyone. Come on, man,
Speaker 1: when you're telling the police this person killed, that person said,
Speaker 1: you gotta look at it like this, my nephew is dead.
Speaker 1: And he took the advantage of that because he was
Speaker 1: fighting life. Right, he got caught with some drugs. So
Speaker 1: if I can speak on this, my nephew and him
Speaker 1: all these catches gone, so if I could speak on that,
Speaker 1: he used that ship as a street ticket to get
Speaker 1: out of this situation, completely understand. But he didn't. What
Speaker 1: fucked him up is he didn't think that Greg was
Speaker 1: gonna put it out there that you told on your nephew.
Speaker 1: And that's that's my point. You got a man that
Speaker 1: that that made it be The twenty part of life
Speaker 1: two times. I thought it was a smart move on
Speaker 1: his part because he knew that no one's gonna go
Speaker 1: to jail, no one's going to prison, no one's getting indicted,
Speaker 1: and I get to go home. But still the pub
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the way the public will perceive him.
Speaker 1: One you told and two now we know for sure
Speaker 1: you killed my favorite rapper in the world. He hate
Speaker 1: me for that. But when I when when you and
Speaker 1: I speak one little negative thing about Pock, they go
Speaker 1: in on us. They do. Now imagine how they're feeling
Speaker 1: about KVD. You know. So you kind of put him
Speaker 1: out there on those two things, which I did, which
Speaker 1: could actually get him killed if he's not careful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and um, I'm not sorry I did it. You know. Um,
Speaker 1: he's who he is. I told him what I was
Speaker 1: gonna do. His response was, little funk it. Then I'm
Speaker 1: a gang straw handle that ship. That's exactly what he
Speaker 1: told me, and said, Okay, Well, that's your that's your decision,
Speaker 1: that's your life, that's you go do you. I'm telling
Speaker 1: the world what the funk happened because this story is
Speaker 1: more important than you. In fact, I think this story
Speaker 1: is more important than your life. So what was your
Speaker 1: your process of getting that out to the public. Who
Speaker 1: did you turn to and how did it eventually? How
Speaker 1: did we all learn about this confession? So I ended
Speaker 1: up getting a guy that was a professional writer and
Speaker 1: we sat down and I said, you know, would you
Speaker 1: like to collaborate on this? And he said yeah. And
Speaker 1: you know, I got a publishing contract with Random Random House,
Speaker 1: and we wrote the rough draft and then Random House
Speaker 1: got it and they read what was in the book
Speaker 1: and there we ain't publishing this man. We ain't doing
Speaker 1: some pointing, some fingers that Puffy combs his office right
Speaker 1: across the street from ours. We're not having that. He's
Speaker 1: very lititious and he's just gonna not, you know, appreciate
Speaker 1: what you're saying about him in this book. It's like,
Speaker 1: all right, well, I've got this, I've got this material,
Speaker 1: and I know that I can defend it, and I
Speaker 1: think that when Puffy reads it, he's going to know
Speaker 1: it's true anyways, and that uh, I wasn't in fear
Speaker 1: of being sued, and so I published it and it
Speaker 1: ran its course. Well, um, I could sit here and
Speaker 1: talk to you all day, all night, all morning long,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna have to wrap this up in a minute. James,
Speaker 1: you got any last final thoughts? No, I just think
Speaker 1: it all I should be over. Uh, let these guys rest.
Speaker 1: We know, ain't nobody going to jail for what everybody
Speaker 1: everybody lost, everybody lost. Something is somebody you know in
Speaker 1: this game, this death row thing. Nobody came out on
Speaker 1: top period shill night. You know, five million dollars years
Speaker 1: in prison, everybody lost. So I think it should be
Speaker 1: buried up under rugs somewhere, and people just need to
Speaker 1: accept what's really out there, the truth. The killers are dead,
Speaker 1: so you ain't gonna get a conviction. Let it go.
Speaker 1: But people still see money and and other things in
Speaker 1: this But it's over. Well, Greg, can you tell everybody
Speaker 1: where they can get your book and let us know
Speaker 1: what's going on with you? Yeah, so Murder Rapp being
Speaker 1: fighting you know, Amazon dot com anywhere where books are sold,
Speaker 1: you can you can download it. There's a digital version
Speaker 1: and then uh um, of course that led to a
Speaker 1: documentary that that's uh likely titled also Murder Wrap. And
Speaker 1: then there's a series it's kind of loosely based on
Speaker 1: the book called Unsolved. It was excuse me on Netflix
Speaker 1: last year. I've been watched that a few months ago.
Speaker 1: It was pretty good, pretty good. Yeah, I mean you
Speaker 1: go one episode into the next episode and oh yeah
Speaker 1: it was well done. Good thanks. Yeah, I thought so too.
Speaker 1: That was USA, right, originally as USA, and then Netflix
Speaker 1: picked it up. Yeah. So where can people find you?
Speaker 1: Are you on social media? On the internet website? Man,
Speaker 1: I'm so easy to find, you know. I'm I've got
Speaker 1: a Facebook page, and you know, I'm always people ask
Speaker 1: me questions on Twitter. I just throw my email out there,
Speaker 1: so I'm always I'm always around an available to answer
Speaker 1: questions because you know, I I put myself out there,
Speaker 1: and so now I have to deal with the responsibility
Speaker 1: of that. And if people have questions, and you know,
Speaker 1: nothing's off the table um because I I feel that, um.
Speaker 1: You know, information is you know, his power, Sure it is.
Speaker 1: And when people want to have closure, they want to
Speaker 1: find out what took place with these two gentlemen, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do everything I can to get those facts straight. Well,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you spending a little time with us. I
Speaker 1: see James has uh this bottle of wax. Tell us
Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, I just wanted to let everybody know
Speaker 1: that I'm supporting my cousin. You know, he's a black
Speaker 1: entrepreneur and himself. He he's into a little bit of everything,
Speaker 1: and and you know, uh, he was detailing my sister
Speaker 1: car and he got this merchandise which was in He
Speaker 1: made it all the way to the to wal Mart,
Speaker 1: had his ship on the shelf, and you know, he
Speaker 1: just didn't have the exposure that he needed. So I
Speaker 1: felt that it was only right that I help him out.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm helping family. I got a lot of
Speaker 1: things going on that's in the community, trying to help
Speaker 1: you know, our people, you know, the best way I
Speaker 1: can and to use my platform to help him. Uh,
Speaker 1: I got him here. I want him to come and
Speaker 1: say where his product is. We're coming with a little
Speaker 1: infomercials or whatever it is to explain how is his
Speaker 1: product work? And uh, you know, just trying to launch
Speaker 1: something and get it going. Let him come on the
Speaker 1: micro real quick for a second and explain it briefly
Speaker 1: before we wrap out the show. No, Greg, okay, real quick,
Speaker 1: tell us about this wax. It's uh spray wax that
Speaker 1: you spill on your car keeps the car shigning for weeks.
Speaker 1: Um It's really easy to use. Even after the rain,
Speaker 1: it still has the car shining. I want to thank
Speaker 1: the Gangster Chronicles and James for um let me uh
Speaker 1: just get the the all the all of the Uh
Speaker 1: you're a little nervous, y'all, so all of the people
Speaker 1: that you guys have watching the show, thanks for having
Speaker 1: me come on. And uh, it's just a good product.
Speaker 1: I've watched a lot of Stars Cars and uh recently
Speaker 1: kind of retired from detailing cars, and I can with
Speaker 1: this product right here, Magnificent Wax. How do people find
Speaker 1: the Magnificent Wax? If they want to get a bottle
Speaker 1: of it, you can go to Magnificent Wax dot com
Speaker 1: and uh, yeah, we we shipped the product out and
Speaker 1: h can give it to you. We're gonna have all
Speaker 1: of that. We're hooking it up. We're gonna everybody gonna
Speaker 1: see what to do. Uh at a letter date uh Friday,
Speaker 1: he will be uh with this little demonstration and then
Speaker 1: to come on and on a little little bit of
Speaker 1: Gange Chronicles. People can see it and we're gonna try
Speaker 1: to target some some some good names to put it
Speaker 1: out there and we're gonna see what to do. Alright,
Speaker 1: that's magnificent wax dot com. Go get you a bottle
Speaker 1: and uh thanks for coming on. And before we wrap
Speaker 1: up the show, I need Greg to come back and
Speaker 1: sit real quick. I just have this one final question.
Speaker 1: We didn't get to talk about it. I had to
Speaker 1: hear in my notes, but I'm sure in your investigation, um,
Speaker 1: the Frankliga and Kevin Gaines shooting came up. Was there
Speaker 1: anything about these two cops that had a road rage
Speaker 1: incident important in the investigation of the big killing? Now,
Speaker 1: the only real connection between that incident and uh In
Speaker 1: in the murder investigation was just the lead that Kevin
Speaker 1: Gaines was involved in a relationship with Sugar Knight. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: And it was Sugar Knight's wife, with Sharitha, and the
Speaker 1: car that he was driving the day that that encounter
Speaker 1: took place was registered to her. And so for Russell Pool,
Speaker 1: you know, what came to mind is like, Okay, why
Speaker 1: is this l APD officer involved in a relationship with
Speaker 1: this with this rap rappers? You know, this CEO's wife
Speaker 1: from this record label. So that was kind of for him,
Speaker 1: like what's going on? Why are our officers mixing with
Speaker 1: this with these people. And then as that question began
Speaker 1: to get asked, we found out that there were quite
Speaker 1: a few cops from different agencies that we're working for
Speaker 1: for death row records under right WY security. Well, that's
Speaker 1: problematic for law enforcement because you it's it's from their perspective,
Speaker 1: a conflict of interest. You know, you've got an organization
Speaker 1: that is perceived as criminal to a certain degree, a
Speaker 1: bunch of gang members hanging out and drugs being dealt
Speaker 1: around the studios, and a bunch of you know, people
Speaker 1: with guns, and then cops they're providing security. So that
Speaker 1: was from the law enforcement perspective, there's just that's unacceptable.
Speaker 1: You're not going to mix those worlds once again. The
Speaker 1: gangs is too. Kevin Gaines was never found he had
Speaker 1: been a corrupt cop, right, No, there was a couple
Speaker 1: of road rage road rage incidents at No, there's no
Speaker 1: indication that he is a crep cop. No, but he
Speaker 1: had a temper and there was some reports about him
Speaker 1: having prior road rage. Accidents are incidents, and so when
Speaker 1: it came down to you, really just only two people
Speaker 1: were there, one lived, one didn't. So now you're only
Speaker 1: left with the story of the guy who survived, and
Speaker 1: he says that guy pulled up and was creating problems
Speaker 1: with me and I was defending myself. Well, it's kind
Speaker 1: of substantiated by the fact that, well, there was a
Speaker 1: pattern for Kevin Gaines to have done, you know, doing
Speaker 1: that type of thing. He just never encountered another armed
Speaker 1: cop before. Well, we're about to wrap up on that note.
Speaker 1: Frank Lager claims Kevin Gaines pulled his gun out for first,
Speaker 1: and then he shot in defense. But if Kevin Gaines
Speaker 1: pulled his gun out first, wouldn't at least one bullet
Speaker 1: been fired something some some sort of shooting from his
Speaker 1: sidecom It's just pure speculation, you know. If if Gaines
Speaker 1: pulls his gun out really with no intent to shoot,
Speaker 1: he's just like, I'm scared this motherfucker. And then Leig
Speaker 1: has already got his gun out because he's a cop
Speaker 1: who's expecting problems, so boom, he just shoots back real quick.
Speaker 1: That's probably the likely scenario. Alrighty, well, thanks for listening
Speaker 1: to another episode of The Gangster Chronicles. Everybody, thanks Greg
Speaker 1: Katie for coming down. Thanks for having me man. I
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. It was good to hear from Reggie two.
Speaker 1: I was I was wondering how he was doing. And um,
Speaker 1: if you're looking for James McDonald, you can find him
Speaker 1: on Facebook with the Red Harley and then um on
Speaker 1: Instagram at B I G G J thirty six thirty
Speaker 1: six and he still has no shirts, but at a
Speaker 1: different number, nine on nine three for there you go,
Speaker 1: and you can find me at alex Alonso one oh
Speaker 1: one on all social media platforms. I'm also on street
Speaker 1: Gangs dot Com and Great Kitting. Do you want to
Speaker 1: put out any locations where they can find you or
Speaker 1: they just like my home address? No, no online anywhere.
Speaker 1: If someone wanted to send you a message right now,
Speaker 1: it's the easiest way to send you a message. Yeah, actually,
Speaker 1: it's just my Gmail or my email GM G A,
Speaker 1: I can't even remember my own email. Just find me
Speaker 1: on Facebook. Okay, So that's it. You can find him
Speaker 1: on Facebook. I'm sure if you just type grad Kating
Speaker 1: pretty unique names. Not I'm sure there's a few other
Speaker 1: great Kattings out there on Facebook. But you can find
Speaker 1: him on on Facebook as well. And don't forget to
Speaker 1: download the Himalaya app if you want to listen to
Speaker 1: this show and subscribe to it. It's the Red Eye
Speaker 1: kind of with the Hi in it, and we are
Speaker 1: out and don't forget. Magnificent wax dot com piece by