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Speaker 1: You're tuned into the Gangster Chronicles. Well, James McDonald, Rixie

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Speaker 1: Reich Jr. And Alex to Monso on the Digital Soapbox

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Speaker 1: Network material witness on an aggregated battery, I was a

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Speaker 1: hang gun and they believe this might be in retaliation

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Speaker 1: to her testimony. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening

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Speaker 1: wherever you may be listening from. This is another episode

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Speaker 1: of the Gangster Chronicles and you're listening to Alex Alonso

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Speaker 1: and I'm here with my co host James McDonald and James,

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Speaker 1: let's just get right into it, man, We've got it.

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Speaker 1: We got a guest here that probably one of the

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Speaker 1: premier experts on the murders of Tupac and Biggie Smalls.

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Speaker 1: He is also uh he led an investigation task force

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Speaker 1: investigation into these into these homicides back and I think

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Speaker 1: two thousand six. Uh. He's a detective retired from the

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Speaker 1: l a p D. And he wrote a book entitled

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Speaker 1: The Murder Rapped, The Untold Story of Biggie Smalls and

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Speaker 1: two pox of core murder Investigations. And I believe this

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Speaker 1: book also inspired the TV show called Unsolved. And we

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Speaker 1: have none other than Greg Hating retired l ap D.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for coming down, man, Hey, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Man took a while. James, Hey, hey, you're a busy man.

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Speaker 1: Well you gether. That hard for him to know. He

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of work and he's always on the airplane,

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Speaker 1: much more than I would love to be. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: Greg took me to Australia. Just the first guy that

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Speaker 1: ever took me out to stay out anywhere as far

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Speaker 1: as that matter. Very good friend of mine. Man, I

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Speaker 1: really appreciated me. Helped me out a lot with a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff. Um, I don't think it can get

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Speaker 1: no better. Fathers, meeting somebody and then just just having

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Speaker 1: a friendship. You know what I'm saying that you know

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Speaker 1: in Australia, I've seen and I was. I learned a lot,

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Speaker 1: not only with Greg but with his son, with his

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Speaker 1: wife Donna. Donald was the family to Australia. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: all went out there. They fell in love with James

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Speaker 1: Man so he's kind of now they're adopted. They're adopted uncle. Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: before we talking to the what everybody wants to hear about,

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Speaker 1: and which I'm sure you spoke about many many times, Uh,

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Speaker 1: talk about how this Australia tour thing came about. And

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Speaker 1: this is kind of an unusual talk about that. Greg. Well,

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Speaker 1: originally I had gone over to England and Ireland do

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Speaker 1: a little presentation over there, and then some folks in

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Speaker 1: Australia decided that they thought it might be worthwhile to

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Speaker 1: go down there. A guy named Nick Noonon was the

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Speaker 1: promoter of the show who we had on. He was

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Speaker 1: a guest on The Gangster Chronicles, wasn't he he came,

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Speaker 1: he said, yeah, he said, okay, so you know Nick, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So he put in a lot of hard working effort

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Speaker 1: to get this thing going down in Australia. And I

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Speaker 1: had always thought that there has got to be a

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Speaker 1: different voice to this story. And you know, I can

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Speaker 1: talk about it from the law enforcement perspective, but this

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Speaker 1: story also needs to be told from the from the

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Speaker 1: street perspective and the environment in which all this stuff

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Speaker 1: took place. And so that's why, you know, the natural

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Speaker 1: collaboration with James was just a you know, that was

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Speaker 1: an easy transition. I had first met James actually in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, while I was still investigating the case.

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Speaker 1: I went out to Las Vegas and we had a

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Speaker 1: chance to sit down and you know, I was just

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Speaker 1: comparing some notes and trying to get some information to

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Speaker 1: further our case. So it hasn't been short while. It's

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Speaker 1: been thirteen years. And that was the beginning stages of

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Speaker 1: the task force investigation that you led right when you

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Speaker 1: met James. Yeah, we were just a year into it,

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Speaker 1: because we started in two thousand and six, and then

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Speaker 1: it was the following year that we got around to

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Speaker 1: trying to, you know, help reach out and get get

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Speaker 1: some help from people that we had been struggling with

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Speaker 1: to get that door open. And you know, I thought, hey,

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Speaker 1: well I got this guy, James McDonald's what we can tell,

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Speaker 1: you know, is everything there is to know about death Row,

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Speaker 1: and um, perhaps he can contribute. And it took more

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Speaker 1: than a decade before you guys came together. He was

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Speaker 1: the first I ever did a a a black like

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Speaker 1: a black interview. I did an interview with he was

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Speaker 1: the first one. That's the first one I saw. Actually, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that's the first one period. That was the best.

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Speaker 1: Nice I think you put together a thirty minute clip

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Speaker 1: of James. I'm sure the interview was a little longer,

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Speaker 1: but that's the one where I was like James put

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Speaker 1: it down in this interview. It was it was pretty.

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Speaker 1: It was easier to sit down because I did it

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Speaker 1: at his home and then, uh, I mean I was

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Speaker 1: more comfortable than I was just sitting in the little

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Speaker 1: in the little room, YadA YadA. And then it was

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Speaker 1: easier because the questions that they had for me written

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Speaker 1: down all I had to do it. I don't want to.

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Speaker 1: I don't you know what I'm saying. So I knew

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Speaker 1: what I was gonna be talking about the questions they

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Speaker 1: was gonna ask. And I had my nephew there and

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Speaker 1: he learned something from it. So I didn't know that

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Speaker 1: it was gonna be what it was after I did

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Speaker 1: the interview with him, because after that interview, so many

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Speaker 1: people started calling and and wanted to do an interview. Well,

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Speaker 1: that interviews almost had a million views now, right, nine

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Speaker 1: hundred some thousand plus, Yeah, and he never called me

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Speaker 1: back to do another one. So that was cool. Now,

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Speaker 1: Like you know, I got so many people want to

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Speaker 1: do an interview. I mean from from everywhere. The farthest

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Speaker 1: is BBC. So I mean that interview just made me.

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Speaker 1: It made me feel a whole lot better because I

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Speaker 1: got a lot of ship off my chest, talking to

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Speaker 1: them and and and helping and a lot of people seeing, uh,

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Speaker 1: the pain that I was going through and all that.

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Speaker 1: So it was easy. Were there any questions that Greg

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Speaker 1: wanted to ask you that you didn't want to answer

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Speaker 1: and that you would answer? Oh, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: what I what I didn't want to answer? Then I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't answer. Now, no, there's something that would be told,

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Speaker 1: not sold and not told and not gold and not that. No,

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Speaker 1: y'all can cut that part up. And did you understand

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Speaker 1: his issues with probably some of the questions that he

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Speaker 1: didn't want to address with you on camera. Oh yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: back the well, back in two thousand and seven, it was,

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Speaker 1: you know, basically the same thing that we've been encountering

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Speaker 1: throughout the case. It was just, you know, there's there's

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Speaker 1: things to be taken into consideration when you're talking to

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Speaker 1: the police. And so for James, obviously that was something

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Speaker 1: that he had to um uh years later. Let's just

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Speaker 1: say this, when when we ultimately sit down and have

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Speaker 1: an on camera interview, a lot have evolved, a lot

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Speaker 1: had changed then it was back in two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 1: and so for us, you know, it's like finally kind

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Speaker 1: of the armors being cracked a little bit you and

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Speaker 1: then once you can build u the foundation of trust

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Speaker 1: and respect which we didn't previously have. I was just

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Speaker 1: the cop and he was just the guy from death Row,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we weren't in a position at that

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Speaker 1: time to get real. And so as time went by

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Speaker 1: and we ultimately got to know each other, and I

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Speaker 1: think he felt that I was somebody that can sit

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Speaker 1: down and talk to then the doors opened. Was that

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Speaker 1: your first interview ever? Ever? Ever? And that interview changed me? Period.

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Speaker 1: It changed a lot of things about me. Uh, it

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Speaker 1: helped me unleash a lot of in your head, especially

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Speaker 1: with my brother. Uh, I was dealing with a sure

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Speaker 1: knight was. I hated him so much at that time,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, And it just it just

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Speaker 1: helped me. You know, I said a lot of things

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Speaker 1: that I didn't want to say to other people, and

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Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna never say. But when my mom's teld

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Speaker 1: me it was time to maybe you need to talk

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Speaker 1: and get it out off your chest. And I did

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Speaker 1: that and it worked and should look at me now,

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Speaker 1: I mean I'm sitting there really talking and expressing my

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Speaker 1: feelings and everything out to not just only my family,

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Speaker 1: but people all over the world. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: Greg knows us, but that interview you did with James

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Speaker 1: catapulted him to be right here, right now doing this podcast,

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Speaker 1: because that's really what got the ball rolling, because that

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Speaker 1: led to other interviews, led to other interviews, which led

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Speaker 1: to the producer seeing him and him and blad Man.

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Speaker 1: I shout out to Blad They both they it worked

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Speaker 1: for me. It worked for me. Now I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: actually talking just like man, just tell everybody everything now

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Speaker 1: before we get into some of these other questions. Um,

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Speaker 1: was the Australia tour success in terms of financial and

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Speaker 1: when you guys continue and go to other cities? To me,

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Speaker 1: it was yeah. To me, it was I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: we talked about the only instant and I had which

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Speaker 1: the people in Australia fixed that I didn't have to

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Speaker 1: say anything, and the love I was getting from Greg

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Speaker 1: and his family, and then you know, with with Nick

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Speaker 1: and everybody out there. Man, I've seen different people talk

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Speaker 1: to different people different places. How many places we went to? Hey,

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Speaker 1: we had six cities and and all of them was

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Speaker 1: brand new to me. So I was loving it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you gotta brother out here. Just

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Speaker 1: everything's uh squeaky clean and everybody was nice and I

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Speaker 1: loved it. So what's what's next? Where to go next? Well,

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Speaker 1: we gotta call yesterday, um, potentially to go to Scotland,

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Speaker 1: so that would be cool. I've been over to the

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Speaker 1: UK before, but I've never been to Scotland, so I'm

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Speaker 1: looking forward to getting an email later on today and

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to figure out the logistics of it all.

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Speaker 1: But I'd like to take take James out there and

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Speaker 1: do the same thing. It's interest in the Park and

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Speaker 1: Biggie Hamasa. It's stronger abroad than it is here in

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Speaker 1: the US because maybe too many Americans are just tired

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Speaker 1: of hearing about it over and over where a tour,

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Speaker 1: a multi city tour in the US might not be

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Speaker 1: as successful as going to Europe Australia. Yeah, well you

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Speaker 1: know these guys, both Park and Big or just their

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Speaker 1: international superstars, you know, and so it's really interesting, you know,

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Speaker 1: like in Germany, Um, Biggie's more popular. It's it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a strange thing that there's these just

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Speaker 1: different little dynamics that take place at different places around

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Speaker 1: the world. In Japan and all of these, you know,

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Speaker 1: places that don't even speak a common language, are still

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Speaker 1: these guys are iconic, and their superstars and so and

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Speaker 1: then of course the mystery surrounding their deaths is another

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Speaker 1: whole area of interest to people. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it's more popular over there than it is here.

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Speaker 1: I just do know that this story never seems to

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Speaker 1: fade out. It doesn't seem to die, and there's always

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Speaker 1: a insatiable appetite to know more about it and to

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Speaker 1: learn more about these guys, both as human beings and

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Speaker 1: as artists, but also about hopefully finding some closure and

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Speaker 1: what happened in there in the end. I don't think

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Speaker 1: the story will ever fade because these guys were in

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Speaker 1: their prime when they were murdered. You could actually say

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Speaker 1: they were the number two and number number one and

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Speaker 1: number two rappers on Earth, which is kind of crazy

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Speaker 1: that you're number one and number two rappers get murdered

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Speaker 1: within six months of each other. That's a story to

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Speaker 1: tell for the next hundred years. So I don't think

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Speaker 1: he'll ever die down. I don't, I don't. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you got new documentaries being made right now on to

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Speaker 1: day about two parking Biggie. What more is it to

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Speaker 1: till about two parking Biggie. They've been going twenty three years,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, but it's still coming. And

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Speaker 1: like in Australia, the people were way different. They aspect

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Speaker 1: was way different than what we have now. They was

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Speaker 1: like so stoked about it. They you know, wanted to

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Speaker 1: hear and wanted to understand the story of why. So

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Speaker 1: I think that's what was was was good for us

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Speaker 1: out there in Australia. We brung let's stay closer to

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Speaker 1: some people or some people had a better understanding after

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Speaker 1: the show was over or what really happened, because why

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Speaker 1: Greg was was talking and he said and showed on

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Speaker 1: on this on this uh just uh yeah, now they

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Speaker 1: see from his aspect of it, then from me coming

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Speaker 1: in and then they listened to where I was coming

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Speaker 1: from and why these guys was getting killed and why

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Speaker 1: things was happening in his neighborhood. They was pretty much

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Speaker 1: kind of like blowed away, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, man, it was it was the people

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Speaker 1: out there wanted more than what you got out of here. Well,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about the the live slow Burn

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Speaker 1: I guess presentation that it was crazy. But before we

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Speaker 1: get into that, I just want to let all the

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Speaker 1: listeners and viewers know that this is episode forty five

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Speaker 1: of The Gangster Chronicles and for those who are listening

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Speaker 1: to us on iTunes, please give us a rating and review.

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Speaker 1: We're also available on Google Play for Samsung and Android users,

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Speaker 1: Spotify as well, and you could also listen to this show.

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Speaker 1: My mom is actually using Alexa, so if you have

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Speaker 1: an Alexa, just just say it. Just say Alexa play

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Speaker 1: the Gangster Chronicles and it will come up. And you

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Speaker 1: could also listen and follow the show on the Himalaya app.

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Speaker 1: Just go to your app store and download the free app.

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Speaker 1: Himalaya has a red icon with the letters Hi in

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Speaker 1: it and you can follow us there and you can

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Speaker 1: watch video portions of this show. Um the Digital Soapbox

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Speaker 1: Network which you're produced by Smooth Cut Productions, and on

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Speaker 1: that platform we also have merchandise for The Gangster Chronicles

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Speaker 1: T shirts, hoodies and at cetera and um so last

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Speaker 1: night was extremely interesting conversation between you, Greg Hatting, the

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Speaker 1: author of Murder Rap, and also with Randall Sullivan, the

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Speaker 1: author of Labyrinth. Um Russell's book came out first and

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Speaker 1: then yours came out actually within the last five years,

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Speaker 1: I think, and James, these two were going at it

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Speaker 1: last night. It was so it was so damn funny.

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Speaker 1: But if people this was what people need to see,

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Speaker 1: just that little bit last night, what you need to see.

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Speaker 1: Not not taking up for you, but I got all

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Speaker 1: these documents right here. Yeah, this is what you have.

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. So you can't you you

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Speaker 1: there was no way for him to investigate all this

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Speaker 1: ship that that was being you're talking about Sullivan Sullivan,

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Speaker 1: So how did you come up? And I thought we

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Speaker 1: was gonna be able to, you know, do a little

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Speaker 1: que and they were a mother get up and say

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Speaker 1: something because I wanted to say something bad. Where'd you

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Speaker 1: getting your information from? And that's what people fail to realize.

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Speaker 1: Like I told the guy I did the show was over,

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Speaker 1: the one that was up there, I didn't know his

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Speaker 1: name that did the show, where do y'all get your

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Speaker 1: information from? Everybody keep talking about how they're doing the information,

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Speaker 1: how to how to gather information, and they're talking to

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Speaker 1: these people and talking to these people when the hell

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Speaker 1: y'all talking to y'all. The only way y'all could talk

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Speaker 1: and get something is like, how Greg did talk to

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Speaker 1: the people that were involved. You can't talk to people

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Speaker 1: that weren't there. How can you come to California and

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Speaker 1: say you got information on on what happened on the

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Speaker 1: third of nineteen seven. You you don't have no clue.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't there, you was at home. You just flew out.

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Speaker 1: Well to Randall Sullivan's defense, and I'm not defending him

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Speaker 1: or the book, he did have an l a p

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Speaker 1: D detective, just like grag Hating was. That was his

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Speaker 1: main source. And we're talking about Russell Pool. So he

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Speaker 1: feels very confident. I got an l APD source, a

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Speaker 1: detective Russell Pool. Greg Cating's a lap D. He wrote

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Speaker 1: his book. So it's kind of like a battle of

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Speaker 1: ideas they should be. But I'm sure right now Greg

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Speaker 1: is gonna explain to us why they weren't on the

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Speaker 1: same page. And I just want to shout out Joel Anderson,

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Speaker 1: who was moderating between you and Randall. Um, So go ahead,

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Speaker 1: tell tell James and I why you guys, Russell Pool

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Speaker 1: and Randall Sullivan are not on the same page. And

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Speaker 1: Russell Pool is no longer alive. For those who don't know,

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Speaker 1: he died of natural causes several years ago. Right, So

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Speaker 1: Russell Pool back at the time that Biggie was murdered,

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Speaker 1: shortly thereafter him and his partner inherited their responsibility of

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Speaker 1: investigating the case. And then russ is only on it

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Speaker 1: for a short period of time relatives less than a year,

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Speaker 1: less than a year. And you know, he had some

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Speaker 1: leads that he needed to fall up, follow up on,

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Speaker 1: and as a result of some of the information that

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Speaker 1: he was attaining, he began to draw these conclusions. And

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Speaker 1: through that process, because of things that were happening in

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Speaker 1: his own personal life and his professional life, he was

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Speaker 1: removed from the task force. And so he only had

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Speaker 1: this nine or ten months to work with and not

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Speaker 1: to you know, not to h criticize anything that he did.

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Speaker 1: He was just going through the motions. But I, in contrast,

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Speaker 1: I was ten years down the road, and so I

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Speaker 1: had the advantage that he never had. I had ten

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Speaker 1: years of investigative effort to evaluate, assess, and then look back.

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Speaker 1: I could see everything from hindsight. He was limited to

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Speaker 1: this this perspective that he saw for nine months. I

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Speaker 1: had ten years, and in that period of time. Over

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Speaker 1: that ten years, there was multiple ever their investigations going on.

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Speaker 1: There was a huge racketeering investigation of death oh by

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Speaker 1: the FBI and the a t F. They were interviewing

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Speaker 1: all kinds of people, and a lot of the information

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Speaker 1: that was contained in that investigation affected or had influence

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Speaker 1: on the murder investigations. And then of course the Rampart

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Speaker 1: scandal came out, and then all these allegations about cops

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Speaker 1: being involved in Biggie's murders, and so that whole investigation

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Speaker 1: I had access to. So I had things that Randall

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Speaker 1: soul I'm sorry that both Randall Sulivan and Russell Pool

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Speaker 1: couldn't have dreamed of, you know, having at their disposal

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Speaker 1: in order to get a better picture of what took place.

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Speaker 1: They were limited, and from that limited perspective they drew conclusions,

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Speaker 1: and these conclusions were demonstrably wrong, and they then began

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Speaker 1: to advocate allegations against people that were factually innocent. And

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Speaker 1: that's where I take issue. I don't have a problem

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Speaker 1: with somebody having an opinion about it, going out and

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Speaker 1: doing your own research, you know, whatever, but before you

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Speaker 1: start false the accusing innocent people of these heinous crimes,

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Speaker 1: you got you better have your fucking facts straight. Can

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Speaker 1: you give us some specific examples of that. Who were

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Speaker 1: some of the people that he was thrown under the bus,

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Speaker 1: whether that be Russell Pool or Randall Sullivan, well both

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Speaker 1: of them collectively. Um, you know Shrita Knite for one,

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Speaker 1: you know, being accused of being involved in in in

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Speaker 1: uh In Sugar's attempted murder. Uh, it's just it's it's ludicrous.

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Speaker 1: Reggie Right, you know, obviously Reggie Right, it's no saint.

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Speaker 1: He's a person that it should be accountable for things

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Speaker 1: that he's done in his life. But I've also got

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Speaker 1: to vindicate Reggie Right, because I know for a fact

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Speaker 1: he had nothing to do with these crimes. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: Reggie was very helpful in the process of this investigation.

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Speaker 1: Reggie had been interviewed a dozen times by different people

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Speaker 1: from different agencies. And one thing that I can say

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Speaker 1: about Reggie is that we never found him to lie.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't always entirely truthful, he wouldn't tell us everything

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Speaker 1: he knew, but he never lied. He never sent us

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Speaker 1: down the wrong path, the wrong direction. I respected that,

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Speaker 1: I understood that he couldn't tell us some things because

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Speaker 1: he's got his own life and issues to deal with.

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Speaker 1: But he never he never lied and uh And then

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Speaker 1: of course the most um affected by all this was

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Speaker 1: an individual name Amir Mohammed who was was a close

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Speaker 1: friend of David Max who was this disgraced l a

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Speaker 1: p D. Detective Harry billips Man in the cloud of

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Speaker 1: suspicion that he had to live under as a result

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Speaker 1: of the claims that were in Labyrinth and as a

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Speaker 1: result of the claims that Russell Pool and uh Um

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Speaker 1: Randall Sullivan continued to publish. It was just irresponsible, reckless

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Speaker 1: and you know, in my opinion criminal a question, now,

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Speaker 1: would it be safe to say that all the things

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Speaker 1: that was going on with the police department are in

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Speaker 1: the police department? Did that throw the police department off

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Speaker 1: the investigation off of of trying to catch the Tupac

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Speaker 1: and Biggie uh killers, because it seemed like more the

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Speaker 1: police were more at it then they you know, they

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Speaker 1: wasn't like they were more at it with each other.

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Speaker 1: Like this guy, he was such a dick last night.

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Speaker 1: I keep forgetting his name. I don't even want to remember. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he was such a big I mean he was very irritating.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if he irritated you, but just not

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Speaker 1: to let no one talk. But I mean, do you

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Speaker 1: think just back to where I was at that what

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Speaker 1: was going on in the police department, did that have

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Speaker 1: anything to do with your investigations? And but yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean there were distractions that place. The rampart thing, there

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Speaker 1: was a distraction. There's a lot of unnecessary um time

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Speaker 1: spent um going down dead ends. So do you think

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Speaker 1: that's why people was looking at saying that the police

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Speaker 1: one of the theories that the police killed uh Biggie Tupac. Well,

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Speaker 1: you have to follow up on those leads, you know,

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Speaker 1: when information comes in and if it's circumstantial or compelling,

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Speaker 1: like for instance, just this is what happened with David Mac.

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Speaker 1: David Mac commits a bank robbery right shortly thereafter. He's

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Speaker 1: posing in a picture and he's got this red fedora

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Speaker 1: hat on, he's got this red suit on and his

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Speaker 1: prison letters that he's sending home. He's Westside riders and

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Speaker 1: people in prison that he's selled up with. He's he's

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Speaker 1: gang straight up and so okay, what's going on with

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Speaker 1: this guy? And then you have other jailhouse informants coming

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Speaker 1: forward and going, yeah, David Mac told me that he

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Speaker 1: is involved in Biggie's murder. You know Sugar. He attends

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Speaker 1: parties with Sugar, and so we don't know if that's

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Speaker 1: true or not. That we have to go through the

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Speaker 1: motions of determining where it is and invalidating that information.

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Speaker 1: So you have to go through those motions, and but

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Speaker 1: you can't draw conclusions just off what a jail house

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Speaker 1: informant tells you. And in time, um, at least with

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Speaker 1: this case, all of these guys turned out to be

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Speaker 1: lying because they were motivated by like, well, I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to move out of this prison in order to get

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Speaker 1: closer to home, so and go to this prison. They

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Speaker 1: all had their own motives and uh, you know, this

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Speaker 1: was a high profile case and they thought if they

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Speaker 1: threw their name in the half that law enforcement would

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Speaker 1: help them with their situations. That was the game that

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Speaker 1: was played on more than one occasion and with more

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Speaker 1: than one informant, and that really muddied the waters. That

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Speaker 1: made it very difficult to stay on track with the

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Speaker 1: investigation because you're constantly going in these different directions based

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Speaker 1: on these these claims. I have a follow up, woman,

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Speaker 1: We've got to follow him up, you know. So you know,

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Speaker 1: David mac was somebody that needed to be looked into.

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, uh, you know

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Speaker 1: what I found with guys like Russell Pool and guys

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Speaker 1: like Randall Sullivan, once they develop a theory, they dig

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Speaker 1: their fucking heels in no matter what information refutes their theory.

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Speaker 1: Typical policing, I find that in a lot of cases

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Speaker 1: that I work. One when we investigate a particular defendant

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Speaker 1: and we find out, maybe you should look at this

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Speaker 1: other defendant, they're stuck on who they think did it,

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Speaker 1: and they're going to trial with it no matter whatever

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Speaker 1: evidence we present to them the show hey, this guy

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Speaker 1: might be innocent, but this other guy might be worth

429
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 1: looking at. They don't want to look. Yeah, it is unfortunately,

430
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: don't know if that's a human condition or what. But

431
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: once you've invested in something, you don't want to accept

432
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: the idea that ship I was wrong, and I put

433
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: a bunch of time and energy and effort into something

434
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 1: that is ultimately wrong. And so I think that that

435
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: is often the case, And and this is what I've

436
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: always said about Russell Pool. You know, I'm not here

437
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: to shoot on the guy. I'm just saying that he

438
00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: lost his objectivity. And it's very clear through what happened

439
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: in this investigation that he formed a conclusion built on

440
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 1: selective information, and he dug his heels and said this

441
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: is what and and that led to people being falsely accused.

442
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 1: And actually I actually believe that Amer Muhammed was the

443
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: triggered person of Biggie for a couple of years and

444
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: it felt, it felt real. They linked them to an

445
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: ss apollo somehow, some kind of way. Um. They said

446
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 1: he dressed like the Nation of Islam. They had a

447
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 1: compositive sketch that looked like Amir Mohammed, and I was like, okay.

448
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: And then years later I find out about um pooch

449
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: and that the pooch theory sounds way more plausible than

450
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: the Amir Mohammed. But yeah, I believe that Harry billips

451
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: Mohammed was the killer in the beginning. Yeah, and a

452
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: lot of people did. Because you were only you were

453
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: only given the information that supported that narrative. And that's

454
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: what the book does. It just gives you the information

455
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: that supports that narrative. What the book doesn't, what Around

456
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 1: the Sun's book doesn't tell you, is that that information

457
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: came from a clinically diagnosed schizophrenic, you know, and who

458
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 1: was in prison and had a bunch of his own

459
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: um psychological issues to deal with, and right off the

460
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: bat he was discredited by the l a p d.

461
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 1: As a reliable source. In that case, he lost his pension,

462
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 1: He lost everything, and just for his case, he dedicated

463
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: hisself for that, I mean he did. He quit the

464
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 1: police war. Yeah, he walked away prematurely. He was just

465
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: less than a year short of his pension, which goes

466
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: to show you where he was at Manor. You know,

467
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: he lost his objectivity, He was frustrated with the department.

468
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: He saw everything as a big cover up, and in

469
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: fact it was just these are the natural processes of

470
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: these investigations. You know, in law enforcement, there's um all

471
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: kinds of different um protocols that have to be followed.

472
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: You know, there's checks and balances, and he just didn't

473
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 1: fully understand that evidently and walked away from the job.

474
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: I say this, if they investigated every murder of a

475
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: black man or a teenager, that that we have every

476
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 1: day then we it wouldn't be no more crime. Now, Gregg,

477
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 1: did you ever track down Amhammed and interview him and

478
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: talk to him, because I don't think we've ever seen

479
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 1: him give an interview where I don't think you've ever

480
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: publicly spoke to just clear his name, to say you

481
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 1: don't have to clear his name and his name is

482
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: not saying well, well to both your points. I have

483
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: spoken to him at length, and I've asked him. I

484
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: was like, hey, and uh, this is what I did

485
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 1: with Reggie back in the day. I was like, Gregg,

486
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: you need to get out there and defend yourself. You know,

487
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 1: you've got to let people out here questioning whether you

488
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: are actually involved in these things, and the best to

489
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: advocate for your defense is you, So get out there

490
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: and start defending yourself. And he did, and I think

491
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: he made some headwight. I think that he was able

492
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: to sway people's opinions. But to him getting indicted, I

493
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: didn't marijuana have kind of made it. It didn't might

494
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: have been a step backwards from here to defend the show.

495
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 1: But you know the truth of the matter is just

496
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: because you do something wrong doesn't necessarily mean you did

497
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 1: you know? And that's always been my point is that

498
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: we all make mistakes and that but because we make mistakes,

499
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily mean that, uh you know that we

500
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: that we're cold blooded murders. And that's the equation that

501
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: people dry will look at Reggie right Jr. He's a

502
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: drug trafficker. Well it makes sense to you then, I

503
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: believe it don't matter whether you're police, are firement whatever

504
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: occupation you hold, don't mean you don't have that that

505
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: gainst mentality in you, you know what I'm saying. And

506
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: Reggie got a little I'd say, Reggie and everybody else

507
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: do the David Max of of today. You got cash

508
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: that that firemans will shoot you. You know what I'm saying.

509
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: It don't take nothing to have against mentality, you know,

510
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: it just all depends on the individual. Well, I never

511
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: believe Reggie Wright had anything to do with any of

512
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: these shoes, just it just never the dots never connected

513
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: from me. Yeah, and there was never a time within

514
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: law enforcement that he was a suspect either. So how

515
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: did this other than Randall's book and and um, it's

516
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: all through jail house informants. They were throwing Reggie under

517
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: the bus. So those guys all had an incentive, I guess,

518
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: to try to get out of jail early. But when

519
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: you throw out a foul theory does not help the

520
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: the inimating custody, does it, um, It really depends. Most

521
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: of these guys are you know, known snitches, so they

522
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: you know, they're in protective housing. A lot of times

523
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,719
Speaker 1: we gotta take this call. I'm sorry to cut you.

524
00:29:49,160 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: Let me just I got Reggie right, this call liquid

525
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: and the subject to monitory hang up to decline the call.

526
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: What do you accept? Nile five? Now? All right, so

527
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, we got a call from Reggie Wright Jr.

528
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: From a federal correctional facility. What's going on, Reggie? You

529
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: tell me? Hey, the first thing I wanted. The first

530
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: thing I want to say is that that video that

531
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: you and John on bomb First were talking about had

532
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: nothing to do with me. You already know, Oh, he

533
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: already knows. Okay, apologize to you. Yeah, yeah, John sent me.

534
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: He sent me a text message apologizing, but I don't

535
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: think we addressed it on the Gangster chronicles. Well, I

536
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: just wanted to say, never said any of those things

537
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,959
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with me. I don't know if

538
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: it's because the other guy's name is Alex, I don't know,

539
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: but yeah, we got hey, we got Griggs sitting here

540
00:30:54,360 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: with us. All right, man, I'm gonna talk Jane, come on,

541
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: because you called me. Tell him how how he thinks

542
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,239
Speaker 1: only Gang Vegas is Jesus stuff. I heard he's been

543
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: on land and the landa and you know how Ship

544
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: was a whim herself growing up and didn't have no

545
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: street creds him and Nick Cannon then they comes and

546
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: depending over on land stuff, and um, we say, I

547
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: said she didn't have no street cred. Yeah, but anyway,

548
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about that. We're gonna talk to Greg.

549
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: Katie's great. Well Greg. Greg didn't have a mic right now,

550
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: so so it's not gonna be uh unless we can.

551
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: There you go, Greg out a mic, now, let's call

552
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: let's yeah, as long as they could hear me, because

553
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: you know, to be honest and nigga's broke, I only

554
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: got a twelve two minutes left from my phone. So okay,

555
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: well before you do that, dude, I got some stuff out.

556
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: I know, shut up, you know, and to shut up

557
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: over here. I got something for your twelve minutes. Check

558
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: this out, gangst the chronicles is your family right, I

559
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: don't want to you're gonna listen or your twil minutes

560
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: gonna be fucked. Let me tell you something, dude. If

561
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: you don't call me, if you don't write me, and

562
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: you don't watch calling, we're stopping your motherfucking check. I

563
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: am a Hollywood upset that you don't call and say

564
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: nothing to me. Nothing I said Texas to you don't

565
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: have my wife? Said Texas your wife? Your wife? Yes?

566
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: She did? You know what's her last week? You know?

567
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: Dr Greg? If I don't get it, if I don't

568
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: get a letter, talk to Greg? You any how many

569
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: peal when uh uh uh they did quick this thing

570
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: in front of the everybody, the source of awards and

571
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: all of that, and you're honestly talking, I'll be having

572
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: question of industry questions. How does being nice and cool

573
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: with everybody? I got the questions to keep going to here? Okay,

574
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: that's and that's why you take that ship to bomb first.

575
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: You know, Cody Doug, I don't have opinion on Yeah,

576
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: you got opinion on gains the coronal. That ain't what

577
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Are you being serious now? Are you just

578
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: talking ship? Hey, reg. One of the things we're gonna

579
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: talk about with Greg all the ridiculous theories in these

580
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: uh homicides, and I guess the Reggie Wright theory as

581
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: being involved, and we're gonna we're gonna talk a little

582
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: bit about that, and I'm sure Greg has some things

583
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: to say about how that's one of the dumbest theories

584
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: that anyone put out there. Let me have some let

585
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: me let me talk for questions and and then and

586
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: then for the other drifting, then we can go over

587
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: that the fucking Then I want to make sure you

588
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: go over with Greg for me. Go ahead, Uhcative producer

589
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: James mccumb now, go ahead, go ahead, Rex. You only

590
00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: got about nine minutes. Yeah, cool, all right? Uh um, Greg,

591
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: how you doing? Then? When I want, I want to

592
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: tell you your boy James, uh he spoke real highly

593
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,439
Speaker 1: and how will you and his wife said his son

594
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 1: treated him over in Australia and he came back with

595
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: a lot of praises respect for you guys man from

596
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: that Australia. True, I appreciate that, young good time, you know. Yeah,

597
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: but if you could also addressed to the people, probably uh, well,

598
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: I want to tell y'all talk about Jeane de overre

599
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: being getting this roles lately about me. If you know

600
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: people been here about that. I heard about that, but

601
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: I know Greggy heard about that. I don't care about that.

602
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: And then I wanted you to also just may to

603
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 1: the people, why uh why you guys? You know that

604
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: your Jean uh deal the third picture, you know, the

605
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 1: other picture for the third time. But that's what his

606
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: big claim of fame is how everybody grew up because

607
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 1: he picked out somebody another picture that was shown to him.

608
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: And you don't understand how this credibility he got shot

609
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 1: because he identified two people prior two different people or

610
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 1: different people prior to that. And so if you can

611
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,919
Speaker 1: explain to the people about that, and then the main

612
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: thing here, you know that guy feel Carson is about

613
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: to come out with that FBI Russell Pool uh you know,

614
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: you know that's that's gut feel carsing from the FBI

615
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,879
Speaker 1: about to come out with a four hour interview they've

616
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: been waiting on and talking about. If you can explain

617
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: to the people how you know his credibility is, how

618
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: easy Russell food good? FBI? You know what's what's you

619
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: can explain what I mean by that meeting that they

620
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: don't have no credibility, just getting go down on one

621
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 1: track mind and don't have a different number opinion or whatever.

622
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: And then if you can explain the situation on how

623
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: you feel about keeps and confession, you can just talk

624
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: about that. That why people won't buy that, know, you know,

625
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: because people don't understand why you know, he hasn't been

626
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: prosecuted as either came out. They don't really understand a

627
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: confessional loans. You know, it's hard. It's hard for d

628
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: A to pick up it just predictions. Okay, those those

629
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: talk about those things. But but yeah, but you know,

630
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 1: whatever questions you'll had or want to talk about, James

631
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: mustn't go over there. For some reason, James is cool

632
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: about well, Reggie, we're listening to we're listening to you

633
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: rid okay, but I can't slept you said you right now?

634
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: Wait an wait, it's more important than anything. I don't know.

635
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: If Jake Turpey want to take domes about the count, um,

636
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And then the other thing was, um, Mountry,

637
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: I don't know James mine that bunty. They need to

638
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: have a reason when they had a picky for a birthday. Yeah,

639
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:06,720
Speaker 1: his birthday was February fair. Yeah, I know sometime ever. Okay, cool, okay, Reggie,

640
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: We're gonna hit off all four of those points. But

641
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about We didn't get to

642
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: talk about this since the last time you called in,

643
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: but you said you had been walking the track and

644
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: I think you said you had lost fourteen pounds back then.

645
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: Are you still on your workout? Two has been thacated

646
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: in twenty two four. I'm thinking a little bit about that,

647
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: but probably work out a little bit on and change

648
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: my regiment. But I'm looked about pounds and go back

649
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: and forth and it on one day in the week

650
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: it is and uter about two miles and the hand

651
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: with ja. Let me think about here, man, they'd be

652
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,959
Speaker 1: working out. They like animals. They be doing for beast

653
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 1: James trying to tell me to learn the game of

654
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: chess and kino pinuccio whenever they call it. That's all

655
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: anything is doing around here. So we got to do

656
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 1: around here. Wait, you never learned how to play chess?

657
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 1: I okay, man, sit down and play chess. You're turning

658
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 1: to go a lot faster. Yeah, they that's all they do, James,

659
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: And he was right about that when you told me

660
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: on that coming here you learn how to play chess.

661
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: If you don't do that. Now they played a lot

662
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: of chess. So do you have a new release date, Reggie,

663
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: I haven't got the official one, so don't think they

664
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: don't want a halfway house did come, but I'm soldiable

665
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: anywhere after September, but shootings are so so crowded. Getting

666
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: out the probably sometime in October, but I'm hoping for

667
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 1: September right now, so the black September the first, but

668
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: more likely in October. I'm twenty Optober and October I'll

669
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: be out in a halfway out by that time. Okay,

670
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: I'm the work your boy Lee Baker's in al Paso, Texas.

671
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: Baker Lee Baker's and El Paso, Texas. I don't need text.

672
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: He had a prison camp one, yes, I believe it's

673
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: a camp. I think he's in the camp just like yours. Okay. Yeah.

674
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: The thing about that man about they got a new

675
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: first step active out and people that's over sixty now

676
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 1: they get out, they only do two thursdays the time

677
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: now that they get sent he won't be an. They

678
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: let people out like crazy. I'm doing two thursdays, two

679
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: Thursday time will over the age of sixty already went on.

680
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 1: It won't be as much as as so that means

681
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: Lee Baker should be out. I think he was sentenced

682
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 1: to three so it's two thirds of the eight or

683
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: two thirds of the three years. That's a good question.

684
00:39:53,320 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: I uh, I don't think, le Bob. This is how

685
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 1: how often is the number one cop go to prison

686
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: out of a police department he's from, but he's in

687
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: our Pasto, Texas? He just turned himself in and do

688
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 1: his time, all right? What else is on your mind?

689
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 1: Ranch um man? I guess just what I wanted to

690
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: get off. Oh my boy, James. I heard people even

691
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: Land and Not about his interview was like Land up,

692
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 1: They're going to Nick Cannon about that. So so Nick

693
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,919
Speaker 1: Cannon go up there just because I said some well,

694
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 1: he's not going to get you, and they were just

695
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: pretty much said, wasn't well. I mean, I'll say against

696
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,879
Speaker 1: the chronicle, Shug wasn't born a bread like we were.

697
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: Sugar was not a streetcat like we were. Sugar was

698
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: not carry a pistol cat like we were. No that's

699
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: that wasn't That wasn't the questions. I mean, at that

700
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: time I lived and and all of us lived the

701
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: game banging life. She would never lived the game banging life.

702
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: And if anybody can tell me he did, then I'm wrong,

703
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: and I would apologize. She would never carry the red bandanna.

704
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: She would never got in that car and then to

705
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: drive by. She would when cut for that. That's what

706
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: I was saying. So if people want to take that wrong, man,

707
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: I ain't say she would win fight after the fact

708
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: or whatever. But everybody know that Ronald and Donald was

709
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:50,919
Speaker 1: was lost. Yep. In fact, his time was up. That's cool,

710
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,919
Speaker 1: you know. I just hate that when people take something

711
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 1: I say and then they just get it all misgans

712
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: through Sheild was never a carry your pistol type of cat.

713
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: Shugar Gant never had a gun in his waist, in

714
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,240
Speaker 1: a red rag in his back pocket, or from who's

715
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: out there claiming that he was. Well, these people saying

716
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: sugar is a game, whoever they are. I mean, if

717
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: you didn't live the neighborhood or or or live how

718
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: we live, then you can't you don't know. Yeah, all right.

719
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: So the last thing was have you had a chance

720
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: to meet Amir Muhammad Harry Billips and talked to him

721
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: and what was that like you I've had a number

722
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: of conversations with him, Um, the latest I think was

723
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 1: just a few days ago actually, and uh, you know,

724
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: he's living out in Georgia and um, just living his

725
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: life and taking care of his family and trying to

726
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: avoid all this, and I think he thought it was

727
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 1: all behind him until this most recent book came out

728
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 1: by Randal Sullivan and just resurrecting all of these old claims.

729
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 1: And so I did the same thing with him that

730
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: I've did with Red J. Said, you need to get

731
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,040
Speaker 1: out there and defend yourself, man, publicly defend yoursel of

732
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: because when people see you and hear you, they're going

733
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: to have a completely different impression than what they have

734
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: by what they've been told in these books. You sit down.

735
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: He's very intelligent guy, very articulate, very kind and respectful.

736
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,879
Speaker 1: He's educated. You know, there's nothing about him at all

737
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,240
Speaker 1: that resonates like wow, that sounds like you know somebody

738
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: who would have done this. It's not that impression that

739
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: you get. And then, of course we know factually, just

740
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: because of all the evidence that was proposed to stand

741
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: up against him was all you know, disproven, But I

742
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: think that for him, his decision is just to stay,

743
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: stay in the cut and not not come out and

744
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: do anything about it. So, James, what do you think

745
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: about that? Because Reggie Wright decided because Reggie Wright was

746
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: quiet for many many years, no one had heard from him,

747
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: and he decided to come out defend himself. But for

748
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 1: whatever reason, Harry Billips hasn't publicly said a word. Am

749
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: I right at that? He's never publicly said a word. No.

750
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 1: The only thing he's ever done in his own defense

751
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 1: is he went to a deposition. He was summoned to

752
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 1: a deposition as a result of the Wallace lawsuit. He

753
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 1: went to the deposition, and almost immediately after that deposition,

754
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: he was dropped from the lawsuit. What do you think

755
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: about that, James? Uh, two different approaches. Reggie decided to

756
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: defend himself, Harry Billups Amber Homma decides it really all

757
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: depends on the person. He he just don't want to

758
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 1: deal with it. Um. Reggie was like that at first two.

759
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 1: But then when when you told Reggie need to get

760
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: out to and defend itself, Reggie took it. Reggie is

761
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: smashing everybody that got something to say to him. So

762
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: Reggie found a way to deal with it. And that's

763
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: his way, you know, getting that improvement to to everybody

764
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:50,399
Speaker 1: that this person is woo you. You ain't good enough

765
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,919
Speaker 1: to talk about me like that. So I advised people

766
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: not to talk about Reggie. But this guy, why why

767
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 1: go out there and start talking? And then some you

768
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: take the smallest thing and make it out of something

769
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,959
Speaker 1: real big. And then now he's really in the loop.

770
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 1: Oh you heard he said this. He's doing the right thing.

771
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: Live your life, don't worry about what nobody else got

772
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: to say about you, and just do you stay away

773
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: from all this Just unfortunate that you have people out

774
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: here trying to eat off something that would that happened

775
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 1: twenty three years ago, and and they don't realize that

776
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: it's still effective. People that are still alive today. You know,

777
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: it's hurting him so and they don't take into consideration

778
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,399
Speaker 1: that it's not just him. He's got a wife, he's

779
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: got kids, he's got neighbors, he's got co workers. And

780
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: people talk and they'll form opinions off of what they've

781
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 1: been told. And that's where I again, that's where I

782
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 1: take issue with these guys that factually, um, he's completely innocent,

783
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: he's so exonerated that uh, the fact that these people

784
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: are still pursuing and advocating for that bullshit story, it's

785
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: so responsible and disrespectful. So I haven't had a chance

786
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 1: to look at Randall's new book, but um, I'm sure

787
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: you've read everything. Is he repeating some of the same

788
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: stuff in the Labyrinth book in the new book as well? Yeah,

789
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: it's kind of like the sequel. It's just the same narrative,

790
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:19,399
Speaker 1: same storyline that the conspiracy has grown massively. Now it's

791
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: just not a dirty cop and and uh in his

792
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 1: high school or his college buddy. Um, now it's a

793
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: dirty cop is college buddy? The United States Attorney's Office,

794
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: the FBI, the l A p D, the district attorneys,

795
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 1: all these Now it's there's two hundred people involved in

796
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 1: this conspiracy who are all agreen to risk their reputations,

797
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: their careers, in their lives to cover up for David Mack.

798
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: And this is not a novel, Okay, it sounds like

799
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 1: a novel the way describe it. It's it's it's ludicrous,

800
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: you know, the the idea that all of these people

801
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: who most of who don't even know each other, from

802
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: all of these different walks of life, all these different

803
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: agencies are all going to collectively agree that we need

804
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: to we need to suppress all this information in order

805
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: to protect David MCINTOMR Muhammed no last Um. At that

806
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: slow Burn event, it seemed like you guys must have

807
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: a history. It wasn't just that one night you guys

808
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 1: went at it. Can you explain the history that you

809
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: and Mr Sullivan have to where it seems like as

810
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: soon as you guys are on the same stage, you're

811
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: going at it. Where what's the history light between you guys?

812
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: There's no personal history. I've never met him before, I've

813
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: never talked to him before. In fact, that was one

814
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: of my points last night on the stage. I was like,

815
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: you know, you're publishing all of this. You have information,

816
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: and you should if you're a responsible journalist and you

817
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: really want to find out the truth, you need to

818
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 1: get as many different perspectives on things as you can.

819
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: If somebody's accused of something, you need to go talk

820
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: to that person and get their side of the story right.

821
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 1: And you know, he makes these wild accusations against me,

822
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: He never made any attempt whatsoever to come and talk

823
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: to me to say, hey, Greg, well this is what

824
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: I heard. I'm going to write a book. You have

825
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: an opportunity here to either correct this or provide at

826
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 1: least your perspective on it. That's what you do when

827
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 1: you're looking for the truth. That's what you do when

828
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: you want to publish something with a responsible, objective perspective.

829
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 1: It's not what they do. What they want to do

830
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: is continue with this bullshit narrative that's completely disproven and

831
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 1: in the hopes that they can continue to um mislead

832
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: people into believing this wild ass theory about this huge

833
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 1: cover up. What was your first reaction, James, after um,

834
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: seeing Randall Sullivan and Greg k and go at it

835
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,919
Speaker 1: for about what was about maybe twenty minutes. I don't

836
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 1: even know how long that last it was. It was,

837
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 1: but it was short, and I have a video of it. Um,

838
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna see if I could have permission from slow

839
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: Burn to post that on my channel, UM, because I

840
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 1: thought it was compelling, and it was. It was crazy.

841
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: I was just just go back because I'm looking at him,

842
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,399
Speaker 1: and then right here you see Greg got a hold

843
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 1: of wayman, I got that for that, But he just

844
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: got this book with like he was taking notes on

845
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 1: what he wanted to last out about. And when he

846
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: started off, he tried to what do you what did

847
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 1: he tell? You said? He was like crazy or something?

848
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 1: He what, what's so disrespect And that's what so often

849
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: happens in these type of either debates or you know,

850
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:33,240
Speaker 1: these these arguments, is that when they can't disprove your facts,

851
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: then they just personally attack you. And that seems to

852
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: be the approach that they take. Well, we can't disprove

853
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: the facts, so now we have to smear his reputation,

854
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: like that one part where he was talking about miss

855
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: Wallace and the the the table was supposed to be

856
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: hitting or whatever. Now when she's seen that, she got mad.

857
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 1: And a lot of people don't know that, but people

858
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:01,320
Speaker 1: think that the purpose of of talking to her and

859
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: doing with her, are you coming in is to discredit

860
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 1: that so they can drop the lawsuit. And once the

861
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 1: lawsuit was dropped down, he got shenanigans again. But what

862
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: when she didn't know that that about the hidden tape?

863
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 1: Explain that how that went last night? Yeah, so during

864
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 1: the trial, there was a there was a allegation that

865
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: the l a p D was suppressing some evidence to

866
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 1: the wall the biggest that after Big It was killed

867
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 1: and the book Labyrinth was published. Based on the information

868
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: in the book, it compelled an attorney to contact Mrs

869
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,879
Speaker 1: Wallace and say, look, if if these claims are true,

870
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 1: then the l a p D is culpable in the

871
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 1: murder of your son. We have to assume him. That

872
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: led to a lawsuit in two thousand and two roughly,

873
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: and so that lawsuit, as it began to go through

874
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,879
Speaker 1: the motions of court, UM got to a point where

875
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: their attorneys argued that we were suppressing evidence. So they

876
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 1: came to the police department on the judge's orders, and

877
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 1: they found some material that was in the UM the

878
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,439
Speaker 1: desk of the investigator that was assigned to the case

879
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 1: at the time, a guy named Stephen Katz, And they

880
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: found a tape from a jailhouse informant named Kenneth Boulogney.

881
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 1: So they made this big deal about it. Look it, man,

882
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: here's proof they're suppressing evidence. Like this detective interviewed a

883
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: guy and this guy says that Rafael Perez was involved

884
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 1: in this murder. And you're familiar with Rafael Perez, the

885
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: rampart scandal guy, and so that went you know, to court,

886
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 1: and the judge was like, hell, yeah, this is clearly

887
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:37,840
Speaker 1: um inappropriate suppression of evidence. So she issued a sanction

888
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 1: against the city for like a million dollars and declared

889
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: a mistrial. Well, shortly thereafter, the attorneys for the city

890
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: came in and said, well, hold a minute, here's the

891
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 1: evidence that this stuff had been turned over. We weren't

892
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 1: hiding anything, and all of this material is readily available,

893
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 1: was distributed through different channels in the l a p D.

894
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: And the judge then said, well, you know, she realized

895
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: that she been played and uh that the damage was done.

896
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: The mistrial was declared, and now it was a matter

897
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: of putting everything back in motion. So that's what took place. Um.

898
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 1: But to my point, like last night, you've got him saying, well,

899
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: you know this this really rare ammo out there that

900
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: Biggie was killed with. It's never been seen before, it's

901
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 1: so unique, which is all bullshit. There was stores all

902
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: over the South County that that had that ammunition available

903
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: to anybody that walked in and wanted to buy it.

904
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 1: And then I pulled out the documents showing it. Look

905
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 1: just within a few months of Biggie's murder that ammunition

906
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 1: was showing up on other crime scenes. So really, how

907
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: rare is that it's not? Well, they was making it

908
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 1: seem like that that dad Emmore was only used that

909
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 1: one time and they haven't seen it in California. That

910
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 1: was their claim that it's never been used in the

911
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 1: history of the United States and any type of crime.

912
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,399
Speaker 1: That was the gun that was used to kill Pac

913
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: ever recovered because on the A and E documentary The

914
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 1: One Who Killed Tupac, hosted by Benjamin Crump, civil rights attorney,

915
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: they claim to have found the gun in the backyard

916
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 1: of a South Side Confident crips house. Yeah, so there

917
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: was never conclusively proven to be the gun. There was

918
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 1: good reason to believe it could have been because there

919
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: was issues with Corey Edwards. He was the individual who

920
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: was out in Las Vegas with the rest of the

921
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,240
Speaker 1: South Side crips when Pac was shot, and Corey Edwards

922
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 1: was really he wasn't down with all that, he wasn't

923
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 1: trying to be part of that, and so they thought

924
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: he was kind of ranking out. And so when the

925
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: murder went down and Corey had kind of distanced himself

926
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: from it. They saw they saw that he was just

927
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: maybe too soft or whatever, and uh, the gun may

928
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: have been tossed in his backyard just to kind of

929
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,879
Speaker 1: funk with him. That was the working theory. I don't

930
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 1: know if that's true or not. But a forty caliber

931
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: clock was found in the backyard of his girlfriend's parents house,

932
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 1: actually in Compton, and we recovered the gun, and actually

933
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: Compton had recovered the gun. We took it to Las

934
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 1: Vegas to test it and compared against the ballistics in

935
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 1: Tupax case. But the analysts out in Las Vegas said

936
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 1: that it wasn't a match. So we had to we

937
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: had to accept that. I had to accept it, even

938
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 1: though there's been rumors that the Las Vegas just an

939
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 1: attorney's office doesn't even want to touch this case. Yeah,

940
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: you know, I again, I have to just stick with

941
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 1: what we're being told. I can't make that. I can't

942
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 1: draw that conclusion that they're intentionally um because they have

943
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 1: nothing to gain to even charge anyone in this because

944
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 1: everyone has to be dragged back to Vegas the trial

945
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 1: would take place there, and this is just a city

946
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 1: that doesn't want that type of attention. Yeah, and at

947
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 1: this point in time, there's really nobody to drag back,

948
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 1: you know, other than kyp D and his own confessions

949
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: of his involvement. The other guys in the car are

950
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 1: all dead. Um a guy who gave the gun to

951
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: kip D, he's dead. Von Zip. Yeah. So all of

952
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 1: these guys that would potentially be their co conspirators or

953
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 1: co defendants, they're all gone, and there's no real witnesses

954
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: who can come and say, yeah, I was there. Kep

955
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 1: D was the one who was in the car and

956
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:18,759
Speaker 1: had the gun and was participating in the murder. So

957
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: you've basically got kif D testifying against kif D. Hard

958
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 1: case to to take to court. Did you ever find

959
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 1: the car, the white Cadillac I believe it was a

960
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 1: rental car. Did you ever track it down through vin

961
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: number or anything to see if there's any forensics on

962
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 1: that car? No, Unfortunately, I think that's an area that

963
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 1: maybe the ball got dropped on Las Vegas. Part by

964
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:45,919
Speaker 1: the time we came onto the scene, you know, we're

965
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: ten years after the fact, So to go back and

966
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 1: try to get records on a rental car from ten

967
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: years those don't exist. They're purged out of the system.

968
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 1: So it's impossible then to know because that car might

969
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 1: be sitting in someone's backyard or might be in the junkyard,

970
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: you know, yeah now these days, Yeah, that's that was

971
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 1: a long time ago. Did nobody have no license plate number?

972
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,919
Speaker 1: Nothing to find that car? The first person that's seen

973
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: that car was me at the six SI. You saw

974
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 1: the white catillet. They was there. Yeah, they was there

975
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: and being chased and all of that. And would nobody

976
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 1: thinking about getting no license plate number? But since it

977
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 1: was a rental car, it would be a scene. It

978
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: would be a car that would be easily name but

979
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: you gotta know whose name it is. That was? That

980
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 1: was That's pretty much hard though, Alex. There was some

981
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 1: information that probably could have been followed up on better.

982
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 1: Was that the driver of that car got named Terence Brown.

983
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: They called him bubble up Um t Brown. His mom.

984
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 1: It could have it was either his mother or his

985
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: mother in law was the one who actually had rented

986
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 1: the car over at the enterprise at l A X.

987
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 1: And so if we hadn't known that, or if law

988
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 1: enforcement had known that back at the time, potentially they

989
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 1: could have run down that lead and found out that

990
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 1: there was a connection between T. Brown in the car

991
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 1: that would have been monumental. But even still for y'all

992
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: records today, can y'all go back and look and see

993
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: if that was a white CATLLC whatever color was to

994
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: make the monitor whole note, Yeah, no, because all those

995
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 1: records were purged. You know, those rental car companies after

996
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: a period of time, they just purged their records. They

997
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 1: don't keep them indefinitely for you know, two decades. Yeah,

998
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 1: but Enterprise, for example, takes all their cars that are

999
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 1: like a two years old and they put them on

1000
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: an Enterprise lot and then they sell them to the public.

1001
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: Right that those records still exist because then you have

1002
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:47,960
Speaker 1: to track who would you sell it to. You had

1003
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: to put insurance on the car, there has to be

1004
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 1: a payment plan, so that means it was financed, so

1005
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 1: there's got to be records on I guess the point

1006
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: I'm trying to make is that first you'd have to

1007
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 1: go to the rental or to Enterprise and say here's

1008
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: a name that's purged. So if you were to go

1009
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 1: to them and say, hey, twenty years ago, they'd be

1010
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 1: we don't have those records of Mrs Brown and that's

1011
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 1: the only way where you're gonna be able to track

1012
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 1: the car, because through her name is about this you

1013
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 1: have well you've learned about this in two thousand six,

1014
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 1: two thousand seven, two thou nine, So thirteen years later,

1015
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 1: you know that they rented a car from Enterprise, a

1016
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 1: white Cadillac Cadillac. How many of them could there have been?

1017
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 1: And they have records of all the vent numbers. They

1018
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 1: probably don't have a record of who rented it, but

1019
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 1: the identity of the car should still be recorded somewhere,

1020
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 1: right with the VN number and the license plate. Yeah, theoretically,

1021
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 1: you're right that even if they got the card, I mean,

1022
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 1: thirteen years later, you ain't gonna get none offer of it.

1023
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 1: Well apparently they got shot back at. I'm just I'm

1024
00:58:58,200 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: just looking at it as a piece of evidence that

1025
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 1: was never looked at. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, okay,

1026
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 1: So let's say that you were able to do that.

1027
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 1: From a practical standpoint. Let's say you identify the car

1028
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 1: and it still exists and you could go recover it.

1029
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 1: That connects you to Terence Brown, right, who's dead. Connects

1030
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 1: you to keyfe D by way of you know, his

1031
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: own confession of saying he's in that car. So what

1032
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 1: does that actually do as far as a potential prosecution?

1033
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 1: What's the value of that knowledge or that evidence today?

1034
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 1: It's too late. Yeah, well in two thousand and six,

1035
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 1: what youre to Terence Brown get killed? He died in

1036
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 1: Uh it was just a few years ago. Really, Yeah,

1037
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 1: he was still alive. He was still alive. That's correct. Yes,

1038
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 1: that's correct, And I'll just concede to the fact that

1039
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: that effort wasn't made. Yeah, let's get to some of

1040
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: Reggie's points that he wanted you would cover. I guess

1041
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 1: this first one. M Gene Deal been doing a lot

1042
00:59:55,560 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: of talking on this case lately, and I'm you don't

1043
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 1: want to want to even coming on that care because

1044
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:06,919
Speaker 1: I don't know him, he uh said, some said, I don't.

1045
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 1: I ain't ever seen this, dude, I don't care nothing

1046
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 1: about this. You live in New York. When the fun?

1047
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 1: What is you talking about? Uh? Fun? Reggie and James.

1048
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:19,439
Speaker 1: She said that he said this a couple of months ago.

1049
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: But I'm not gonna even reply to that because you

1050
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 1: don't know me to say that. If that's how you feel,

1051
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: I mean, Jene Deal can come against Chronicles to sit

1052
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: out and we could talk. He could bring his people,

1053
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 1: but after the fact, we can move this table. And

1054
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 1: Jene Deal had in his business. That's the only way

1055
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 1: you can talk to me and talk. Ship. I don't

1056
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 1: want to hear that ship. Ain't gonna be no studio gangster.

1057
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 1: I ain't gonna be talking from Gangster Chronicles to Yo

1058
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: Little ragged As podcast or whatever you're doing on your

1059
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 1: couch and and and just go back and forth. I'm

1060
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 1: not gonna do none of that ship. But yeah, he's

1061
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 1: been talking. So I went and looked up Jane Deal

1062
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 1: and Mace and the video. Why that Mace got on

1063
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 1: this video and was telling him y'all had guns too.

1064
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:09,120
Speaker 1: Why y'all didn't shoot at the cat that shot Biggie?

1065
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 1: They actually sit there and watch Biggie get shot. Nobody

1066
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 1: don't know that, but mag put it out there. Y'all

1067
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 1: had guns, y'all the security. Why y'all didn't shoot this dude? Well,

1068
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 1: I don't know. But for anyone who's forty five and under,

1069
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 1: they don't know who Mace is. But Mace was one

1070
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: of the top rappers on bad Boy Records in early nineties.

1071
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 1: I think he was actually on before Biggie was on,

1072
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 1: but um, I guess um Gene Deal was present when

1073
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:43,919
Speaker 1: Biggie got killed. Gene Deal was the bodyguard for bad

1074
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 1: Boy for Puff. So even though I know you don't

1075
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 1: want to hear nothing he got to say, Um, do

1076
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 1: you think he has any value greg of being present

1077
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: and what his story is? Of course, you know, whatever

1078
01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:00,760
Speaker 1: his observations were that night need to be um taken

1079
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 1: into consideration. You know, he did have this encounter or

1080
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 1: you know, kind of a soft encounter with a guy

1081
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:11,080
Speaker 1: that he perceived um as a nation of Islam. In

1082
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 1: his original statement with his he said, yeah, he was

1083
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 1: dressed like a guy from a nation of Islam, but

1084
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:19,080
Speaker 1: I don't think he was because he wasn't acting like one.

1085
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:21,200
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. I don't know what

1086
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 1: a Nation of Islam guy acts like. That's any different

1087
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 1: than the next guy who might be standing there with

1088
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 1: a bow tie. So I'm not sure exactly what that means,

1089
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 1: but that was his statement. I don't think he was

1090
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 1: a real n o I because of the way that

1091
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 1: he was acting. But he says, a guy in a

1092
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 1: bow tie came walking up, looked suspicious and you have

1093
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: to keep in mind that the previous night there was

1094
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 1: a confrontation with some guys from the Nation of Islam

1095
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 1: and bad Boy at the Shrine auditorium, So that's already

1096
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 1: in his mind as a bodyguard, as a security guy

1097
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 1: looking for threats, they've already had an encounter he sees

1098
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 1: a guy makes him uncomfortable, and that that individual kind

1099
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: of looks over at him and then turns around and

1100
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 1: walks up the eat in the direction of where they

1101
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 1: shooting would ultimately take place. So, yeah, that's great information,

1102
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 1: that's important information to know. But what ends up happening

1103
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 1: is over time that story continues to just evolve and change,

1104
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 1: and that's where it becomes problematic. You know, we have

1105
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 1: his original interview and we retained everything he said. It's

1106
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 1: all recorded, and the things that he's saying now and

1107
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 1: has been saying are not consistent with what he originally said.

1108
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 1: And so you've got to ask yourself, well, then, what's

1109
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 1: the motivation? Why are things changing? Is it just to

1110
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 1: stay relevant? Is it to be sensational? Is it to

1111
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 1: get clicks? You know, because your story shouldn't be changing

1112
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 1: that much, wouldn't Little sees Little Caesar, who was part

1113
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 1: of the Biggie camp, didn't he say something similar about

1114
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 1: a guy from the Nation of Islam? And I think

1115
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 1: this kind of promotes the Harry Billups theory Mohammed theory

1116
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 1: because to this day, Jeane Deal believes a meyor Muhammed

1117
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 1: was the shoot her. Am I right about that. Uh, well,

1118
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure if he truly believes at he's

1119
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 1: kind of committed to it now because of the fact

1120
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 1: that he identified him and said it's the shooter. So

1121
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 1: he's never going to change that, regardless of the evidence

1122
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 1: that you know works against that. That thought, um, But

1123
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 1: there may be some legitimacy to the idea that a

1124
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 1: Nation of Islam guy real or not real, um, was

1125
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:26,080
Speaker 1: somehow involved in what took place. I don't think that

1126
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:28,919
Speaker 1: Pucci would have been in a position if he's sitting

1127
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 1: in his car to know exactly where Biggie was sitting.

1128
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 1: So maybe Pucci had to look out, maybe somebody was spotting,

1129
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:39,160
Speaker 1: and so I can't discount that. All I can tell

1130
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 1: you with absolute confidence is that that guy that he

1131
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: saw from the Nation of Islam was not a mere Mohammed.

1132
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 1: But last night you did say that both shootings. The

1133
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 1: pock and Biggie have conspirators, the theory that Pooch was

1134
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 1: alone in that car when you shot Biggie, but you

1135
01:04:56,200 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 1: believe they are conspirators in the Pucci shooting, It makes

1136
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: the most sense to think there's at least one other

1137
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 1: um co conspirator, that somebody else may have been out

1138
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 1: on foot and said, okay, listen, we're watching. Because you

1139
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 1: gotta keep in mind that it took a while for

1140
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 1: them to get in their cars and to get out

1141
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 1: onto the street and to pull away. Somebody would have

1142
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: had to be in a position to say, hey, it's

1143
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 1: the second suburban bigs in the right front seat, so

1144
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 1: you know, because Pucci is not going to be in

1145
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 1: a position to go into the parking lot, see where

1146
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:30,280
Speaker 1: they're at, then run get his car, get back out

1147
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 1: on the street, and be in a position to do

1148
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 1: what he did. So it would make the most sense

1149
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 1: that there is probably some communication between the car and

1150
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: somebody out there watching much and directly where big is at.

1151
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 1: Although there's a little bit of video tape from somebody

1152
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 1: that was standing across the street from the Peterson Museum,

1153
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like fifteen seconds twenty seconds. Was

1154
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 1: that video useful at all? I mean, you could hear

1155
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: the number of shots, but other than that, was it useful?

1156
01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 1: What it was because it it showed, for one, the

1157
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 1: kind of mayhem that was going on around there. He

1158
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 1: saw the amount of people going on and all of

1159
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 1: the activity. You see Puffy pull out of the parking

1160
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:11,000
Speaker 1: lot and they're just kind of posted up for a

1161
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:13,480
Speaker 1: minute out in the middle of the street waiting for

1162
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 1: Biggis suburban to pull up behind him. So you capture

1163
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 1: all of this, and so you can see clearly where

1164
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 1: Puffy's at in the in the car, you can see

1165
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 1: where his driver is at, and then you see where

1166
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:27,960
Speaker 1: the shooting takes place, which is right there at the corner,

1167
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 1: because they keep the video rolling as everybody's jumping out

1168
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:33,800
Speaker 1: of their cars running over to Big and trying to

1169
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 1: attend to him. So, yeah, there's value in it, for sure.

1170
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 1: Every piece of information is potentially valuable. Okay, Gene Deal

1171
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 1: saying that he saw I mean Mohammed shooting Puffy, I

1172
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 1: mean Biggie. No, Jean's not saying that. Jean's saying that

1173
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 1: the guy that he saw that walked up and caused

1174
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 1: him to um you know, caused him to take note

1175
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:02,960
Speaker 1: is a mere Mohammed? So why they put him out

1176
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 1: there like he's a killer? Mere Mohammed? Why do they

1177
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 1: put him out there like a killer? If nobody said

1178
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 1: he was the driver demanded pulled up and pop nine

1179
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 1: times because I know ain't nobody in that car looked

1180
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:17,600
Speaker 1: ahead up and say, oh that was him? I oh, yeah,

1181
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 1: I know him from a tea? Why the shots was going?

1182
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 1: So how has they they paint him to be the killer?

1183
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 1: So circumstantially what ends up happening is Little Sis, who's

1184
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 1: in the best position to actually see the shooter. He's

1185
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 1: right behind Biggie in the rear passenger seats, so that

1186
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 1: in Paula would have pulled right up alongside. So the

1187
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 1: shooting takes place, and Little s says, ship, I ducked

1188
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 1: like anybody would. But there was that moment when I

1189
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 1: looked over and I glimpsed at the shooter and he

1190
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:52,440
Speaker 1: was wearing Nation of Islam type of attire. To reenactment

1191
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:54,800
Speaker 1: of that, because you're a cold cat that should have

1192
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:58,320
Speaker 1: been and look at somebody that's dumping on you. I've

1193
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 1: been in that situation many times, and I'm not finished,

1194
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 1: keep my head up to see who's shooting it me. Yeah,

1195
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:06,960
Speaker 1: so it might have been if if you know, if

1196
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 1: we just take this, if if we do reenact this

1197
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 1: in our minds and imagine that you're sitting in the

1198
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 1: backseat of that suburban and you happen to look over

1199
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:17,640
Speaker 1: in the shooting hasn't taken place yet, but you just

1200
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 1: happened to notice the car pulling up alongside of you,

1201
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 1: and you see a guy in a suit, and then

1202
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 1: the gun comes out and then you dock. So there's

1203
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 1: there's a plausible um reality that maybe maybe c saw

1204
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:32,400
Speaker 1: what he said he saw. Yeah, I mean that would

1205
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 1: be two seconds, maybe just two seconds. Is that enough

1206
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:38,120
Speaker 1: to get a glimpse of somebody and send the prison

1207
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 1: for the rest of their life? No, but how often

1208
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 1: does a few seconds of eyewitness testimony help land a conviction?

1209
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:51,280
Speaker 1: And it does people get convicted? Yeah? Well that in

1210
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:56,080
Speaker 1: that in consideration with other information, you know, because you've

1211
01:08:56,120 --> 01:09:00,040
Speaker 1: got hopefully yeah, hopefully. Um. So you have him go

1212
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 1: in little cease in g money, Gregory Young who was

1213
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:07,120
Speaker 1: the driver of Big East car. Um. They go and

1214
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 1: sit down with a forensic um artist and they draft

1215
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 1: up a couple of composites. Well, you look at these composites,

1216
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:18,479
Speaker 1: and you know, you can see what you want to see.

1217
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 1: You know that they could be There's a lot of

1218
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:24,480
Speaker 1: people could look like these guys, because the two composites

1219
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:27,719
Speaker 1: don't necessarily even look alike. So that's problematic in itself.

1220
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 1: But one of them does look like Harry Billips exactly.

1221
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:34,519
Speaker 1: And whoever did that composite didn't know anything about Harry

1222
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:38,760
Speaker 1: Billips Mohammed. So is it just a coincidence that Little

1223
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 1: sees Gene Deal, whoever gave the information to the artist

1224
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 1: that's the shape of his head, There's there's a resemblance. Well,

1225
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:55,040
Speaker 1: so this becomes even more difficult because the way that

1226
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:58,880
Speaker 1: this individual is described by Eugene Deal does not match

1227
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:04,280
Speaker 1: the individual that Little Ce saw. So their descriptions aren't consistent.

1228
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 1: So now you're like, okay, well, Eugene Deal believes that

1229
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 1: this guy that walked up was potentially the shooter and

1230
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:16,600
Speaker 1: identify as a mere Mohammed, right, Well, in their descriptions

1231
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 1: they're not consistent. So you have to take all these

1232
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 1: things into consideration and try to work through, you know,

1233
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:26,840
Speaker 1: how how do people's impressions affected, How is the lighting

1234
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:29,200
Speaker 1: how quick this took place. And the best thing to

1235
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: actually do um as an investigator is to sit and

1236
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:38,320
Speaker 1: listen to these guys talk, not just take um. They're

1237
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 1: written statements like hey, he said he looked twenty four

1238
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 1: to five of a grayish too maybe light suit. When

1239
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:48,960
Speaker 1: you listen to their actual interview tapes and you hear

1240
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:52,599
Speaker 1: their voices, you get a very clear impression that they

1241
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:57,679
Speaker 1: didn't see anything exactly. Number one, Gene Deal is given

1242
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 1: a description of the man that he's so standing by,

1243
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:05,560
Speaker 1: not at the shooter. What differences do that make? And

1244
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 1: then once again his his uh sketch is totally different

1245
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 1: from the picture that the other guy did. You know?

1246
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 1: His description? So what is his purpose? You feel me? Yeah, so,

1247
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 1: Eugene Deal, I'm sorry to catch off, but since we

1248
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:25,360
Speaker 1: were here talking about Eugene Deal, after you know, the

1249
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 1: investigators had interviewed him several times, they took a six

1250
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:32,640
Speaker 1: pack a photo lineup to him and displayed that and

1251
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 1: he picked out a guy in one of the positions

1252
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 1: that investigators knew had absolutely just some random guy had

1253
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:40,839
Speaker 1: nothing to do at all with this murder. But Eugene

1254
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 1: Deal says, yeah, that's that's what the guy looked like

1255
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:48,559
Speaker 1: and so now you've got at least what Eugene Deal's

1256
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:53,640
Speaker 1: impression of that individual was. That guy looks nothing like

1257
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:58,839
Speaker 1: Kamir Mohammed. So then down the road years later, Eugene

1258
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 1: Deal sees a picture of him, your Mohammed and says,

1259
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 1: that's the guy. Well, if that's the guy, why does

1260
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 1: he look so much different than the original guy that

1261
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:09,720
Speaker 1: you said looked like him? And then you find out

1262
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:12,720
Speaker 1: that Eugene Deal saw a picture of Mir Mohammed in

1263
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 1: XL magazine prior to seeing him in this photographic lineup,

1264
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:21,519
Speaker 1: so he's seen the same picture twice, and then saying, well,

1265
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:25,280
Speaker 1: XL magazine is identifying this guy potentially as the killer. Well,

1266
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:27,439
Speaker 1: here he is in the sixth back. Yep, that's the guy.

1267
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:31,720
Speaker 1: So what percent are you confident that the shooter was

1268
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 1: wardel fus Puci Like, if you were going to put

1269
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 1: a number on it, I'm really confident. I'm not as

1270
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 1: confident um as I am with Orlando Anderson in Tupac,

1271
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:46,160
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, there's just absolutely no doubt whatsoever

1272
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:50,920
Speaker 1: confident on that. But you can't say that Ford fos So,

1273
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:56,680
Speaker 1: wardel fust I'm probably closer to only because nobody can

1274
01:12:57,160 --> 01:13:02,599
Speaker 1: positively identify him as the shooter as we do with Orlando, right, Um,

1275
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:06,040
Speaker 1: but because of the you know, the information that was

1276
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 1: provided by the intermediary by Sug's female accomplice, her description

1277
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:16,719
Speaker 1: of everything, and her um statement that it was Wardell Fauss,

1278
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:18,800
Speaker 1: that it was Pucci that she paid to do the hit,

1279
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:22,720
Speaker 1: and then Pucci's own individual background as a hitter for

1280
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 1: Sugar and being suspected of doing a whole bunch of

1281
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:29,080
Speaker 1: other murders. Well, he's definitely capable of doing it if

1282
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:31,759
Speaker 1: it's the profile of somebody that would carry out something

1283
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 1: like that. So those things collectively make the best case

1284
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: for who the shooter is because aside from him, we

1285
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:43,000
Speaker 1: don't have anybody else. Yeah, it's certainly not a Mohammed.

1286
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:50,400
Speaker 1: That's conclusively been disproven that that is a dent. It's

1287
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:53,640
Speaker 1: not even chance he's the one. There's not even a

1288
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,240
Speaker 1: point five percent chance that he's the one. There's a

1289
01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:59,280
Speaker 1: second point here that Reggie wanted us to address. James,

1290
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 1: I don't I'm not familiar with this. Phil Carson, former

1291
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:06,880
Speaker 1: FBI agent UH has a theory on this that I

1292
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:11,960
Speaker 1: guess alignes with Randall Sullivan's Yeah, you know, Um, again,

1293
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:14,240
Speaker 1: I don't know this individual, never met him, so I

1294
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 1: can only criticize him professionally. And I think that he,

1295
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: like Russell Poole, has formed an opinion based on very loose,

1296
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 1: circumstantial information and then refuses to accept the information that

1297
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 1: refutes that, and so he just sees one big, massive

1298
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:39,280
Speaker 1: conspiracy that that's that on its face is completely unbelievable.

1299
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:41,800
Speaker 1: Now you can you can understand some people might find

1300
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 1: it difficult that you're criticizing professionally a trained FBI agent,

1301
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 1: someone that should see everything you're saying. But you're saying,

1302
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:53,360
Speaker 1: even though this guy's an FBI agent, trained by the

1303
01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:57,000
Speaker 1: most powerful government on Earth, he still got it wrong. Yeah,

1304
01:14:57,080 --> 01:15:00,880
Speaker 1: that's exactly what I'm saying. And I'll tell you why. First,

1305
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 1: when he came on, you know, he he wasn't on

1306
01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:06,320
Speaker 1: the job or any when you know, he was a

1307
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:08,880
Speaker 1: young agent when he was assigned this case, and he

1308
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:12,240
Speaker 1: came out of white collar crimes. Now all of a sudden,

1309
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:16,519
Speaker 1: he's dealing with this whole other element. And uh, and

1310
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:22,320
Speaker 1: of course, um, he's given he's given this informant and

1311
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:27,480
Speaker 1: he puts all of his puts all of his credibility

1312
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:33,320
Speaker 1: on this informant. Well, this informant is absolutely disproven, and

1313
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:37,240
Speaker 1: you know we can unwrap that and I can demonstrate

1314
01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 1: to you how we can conclusively, um say that Michael

1315
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:45,640
Speaker 1: Robinson was the name of this informant was lying in

1316
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:50,320
Speaker 1: regard to this case. Is it is it normal for

1317
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:53,160
Speaker 1: the police to find the case I try to solve

1318
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,760
Speaker 1: a case after twenty three years? Why they don't just

1319
01:15:56,880 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 1: let it go? Well, for Phil Carson, he came onto

1320
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:04,559
Speaker 1: this case back in um, you know, around the time

1321
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 1: that the lawsuit was being waged, because he read into

1322
01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:11,759
Speaker 1: these claims against police corruption and read into Russell Pool's

1323
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 1: allegations that David Mack was So he opened up his

1324
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:18,560
Speaker 1: own FBI investigation into the l a p D to

1325
01:16:18,680 --> 01:16:23,360
Speaker 1: probe into corruption and he began to uncover things that

1326
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:27,880
Speaker 1: in his mind was substantiating these claims. But he was

1327
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:32,040
Speaker 1: relying on people who were lying and instead of just

1328
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:34,960
Speaker 1: accept and realized at some point in time that you

1329
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:39,840
Speaker 1: know what I've been, Um, I've lost my objectivity. And

1330
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:42,840
Speaker 1: that's exactly what happened to Russell Pool. And so now

1331
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 1: all we have is an FBI version of Russell Pool

1332
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:50,280
Speaker 1: out there who refuses to accept the known facts instead

1333
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:54,800
Speaker 1: of the speculation that is driving his narrative. Well, the

1334
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 1: last thing out the Reggie Wright wanted you to touch on.

1335
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:01,920
Speaker 1: And I guess we we've talked about this on the

1336
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 1: show before, Keep you DS confession. Um we get we

1337
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:09,400
Speaker 1: get U. Yeah, And I'm sure you've talked about it many,

1338
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:11,880
Speaker 1: many many times. And by the way, let me let

1339
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:16,519
Speaker 1: everybody know that I have keep you D ready to do.

1340
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:19,400
Speaker 1: Keep you D sit down me and Keep you D

1341
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:22,160
Speaker 1: gonna shit down at the round table where we're gonna

1342
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:29,280
Speaker 1: discuss the Is that right I'm saying? Is that right? Yeah? Yeah, Yeah,

1343
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:34,519
Speaker 1: he'd be here tonight. Okay, Well, one question I do

1344
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:39,240
Speaker 1: have about keep D confession is why did it get leaked?

1345
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:43,759
Speaker 1: Did you leak it? And did I mean that information

1346
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:45,479
Speaker 1: being out there put to keep D in a very

1347
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:48,760
Speaker 1: dangerous situation, something that he didn't even know he was

1348
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:51,800
Speaker 1: being recorded at all the entire time. So how did

1349
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:55,640
Speaker 1: it become public? This confession? So when we sat down

1350
01:17:55,720 --> 01:18:00,360
Speaker 1: with keip e D, myself, the FBI, kep DS lawyer,

1351
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:02,879
Speaker 1: we sat down under what's known as a proper agreement

1352
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 1: and he um divulged all of the details about what

1353
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:10,000
Speaker 1: took place in Las Vegas the night Tupac was shot.

1354
01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 1: At that point in time, it's we're just going through

1355
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:17,760
Speaker 1: the investigative Um, we're just going through the kind of

1356
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:23,600
Speaker 1: investigative process. Until I retired and I came to the

1357
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:29,160
Speaker 1: realization that these these crimes, the public is never going

1358
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:31,560
Speaker 1: to know what we did in this investigation, in the

1359
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:35,920
Speaker 1: information that we attained, and so I took it upon myself,

1360
01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 1: said you listen. And I went and met with KPD

1361
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 1: before I did it. By the way, he knew that

1362
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:43,320
Speaker 1: I was releasing the information. I went to his house. Um,

1363
01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:46,439
Speaker 1: we sat in my truck and I said, here's the deal. Um,

1364
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 1: you're never going to probably get prosecuted on this, but

1365
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:54,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to expose what you did. And uh, I said,

1366
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:56,920
Speaker 1: I'm just letting you know ahead of time. I'm writing

1367
01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:00,679
Speaker 1: a book and I'm going to tell the story. And listen,

1368
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:03,400
Speaker 1: you got a huge break on the on the dope

1369
01:19:03,439 --> 01:19:06,080
Speaker 1: case that we built against you, which was to life.

1370
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:10,760
Speaker 1: You're walking away on a murder. So if if the

1371
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:13,840
Speaker 1: punishment for you is that the public knows the truth

1372
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 1: about what you did, well then that's just the way

1373
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 1: it's gonna be. But he should have made him even

1374
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:21,160
Speaker 1: it shouldn't have hurt him. And that's not the part

1375
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:25,759
Speaker 1: that's hurting kepd situation. It's just the fact that people

1376
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 1: know that he said that when the police and discussed

1377
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:32,400
Speaker 1: his nephew. That's that's what's hurting him. Yeah. Well, I

1378
01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:34,439
Speaker 1: think it's two things that's gonna hurt Kepd for the

1379
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:39,040
Speaker 1: rest of his life. One that he got exposed as

1380
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:44,240
Speaker 1: an informant in some in some way. Not everyone. Come on, man,

1381
01:19:44,320 --> 01:19:48,000
Speaker 1: when you're telling the police this person killed, that person said,

1382
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:50,439
Speaker 1: you gotta look at it like this, my nephew is dead.

1383
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:53,080
Speaker 1: And he took the advantage of that because he was

1384
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:57,360
Speaker 1: fighting life. Right, he got caught with some drugs. So

1385
01:19:57,520 --> 01:19:59,880
Speaker 1: if I can speak on this, my nephew and him

1386
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:03,160
Speaker 1: all these catches gone, so if I could speak on that,

1387
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:06,040
Speaker 1: he used that ship as a street ticket to get

1388
01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 1: out of this situation, completely understand. But he didn't. What

1389
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 1: fucked him up is he didn't think that Greg was

1390
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:16,240
Speaker 1: gonna put it out there that you told on your nephew.

1391
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:18,640
Speaker 1: And that's that's my point. You got a man that

1392
01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:21,840
Speaker 1: that that made it be The twenty part of life

1393
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:25,080
Speaker 1: two times. I thought it was a smart move on

1394
01:20:25,240 --> 01:20:27,560
Speaker 1: his part because he knew that no one's gonna go

1395
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 1: to jail, no one's going to prison, no one's getting indicted,

1396
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:33,479
Speaker 1: and I get to go home. But still the pub

1397
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:35,559
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the way the public will perceive him.

1398
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:40,639
Speaker 1: One you told and two now we know for sure

1399
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:44,760
Speaker 1: you killed my favorite rapper in the world. He hate

1400
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:48,479
Speaker 1: me for that. But when I when when you and

1401
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:51,240
Speaker 1: I speak one little negative thing about Pock, they go

1402
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:53,639
Speaker 1: in on us. They do. Now imagine how they're feeling

1403
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:56,760
Speaker 1: about KVD. You know. So you kind of put him

1404
01:20:56,760 --> 01:21:00,160
Speaker 1: out there on those two things, which I did, which

1405
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:03,400
Speaker 1: could actually get him killed if he's not careful. Yeah,

1406
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:10,559
Speaker 1: and um, I'm not sorry I did it. You know. Um,

1407
01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:12,960
Speaker 1: he's who he is. I told him what I was

1408
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:15,439
Speaker 1: gonna do. His response was, little funk it. Then I'm

1409
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 1: a gang straw handle that ship. That's exactly what he

1410
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:21,439
Speaker 1: told me, and said, Okay, Well, that's your that's your decision,

1411
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:24,400
Speaker 1: that's your life, that's you go do you. I'm telling

1412
01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:26,560
Speaker 1: the world what the funk happened because this story is

1413
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:29,559
Speaker 1: more important than you. In fact, I think this story

1414
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:33,439
Speaker 1: is more important than your life. So what was your

1415
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:36,360
Speaker 1: your process of getting that out to the public. Who

1416
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:38,960
Speaker 1: did you turn to and how did it eventually? How

1417
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:41,679
Speaker 1: did we all learn about this confession? So I ended

1418
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:46,120
Speaker 1: up getting a guy that was a professional writer and

1419
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:48,439
Speaker 1: we sat down and I said, you know, would you

1420
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 1: like to collaborate on this? And he said yeah. And

1421
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:56,160
Speaker 1: you know, I got a publishing contract with Random Random House,

1422
01:21:56,280 --> 01:21:59,920
Speaker 1: and we wrote the rough draft and then Random House

1423
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:01,479
Speaker 1: got it and they read what was in the book

1424
01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:04,080
Speaker 1: and there we ain't publishing this man. We ain't doing

1425
01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:07,640
Speaker 1: some pointing, some fingers that Puffy combs his office right

1426
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:10,120
Speaker 1: across the street from ours. We're not having that. He's

1427
01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:13,520
Speaker 1: very lititious and he's just gonna not, you know, appreciate

1428
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 1: what you're saying about him in this book. It's like,

1429
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:20,280
Speaker 1: all right, well, I've got this, I've got this material,

1430
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:23,280
Speaker 1: and I know that I can defend it, and I

1431
01:22:23,400 --> 01:22:25,280
Speaker 1: think that when Puffy reads it, he's going to know

1432
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:29,960
Speaker 1: it's true anyways, and that uh, I wasn't in fear

1433
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:33,040
Speaker 1: of being sued, and so I published it and it

1434
01:22:33,160 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 1: ran its course. Well, um, I could sit here and

1435
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:39,439
Speaker 1: talk to you all day, all night, all morning long,

1436
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 1: but we're gonna have to wrap this up in a minute. James,

1437
01:22:42,920 --> 01:22:45,599
Speaker 1: you got any last final thoughts? No, I just think

1438
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:49,240
Speaker 1: it all I should be over. Uh, let these guys rest.

1439
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:56,360
Speaker 1: We know, ain't nobody going to jail for what everybody

1440
01:22:56,560 --> 01:23:01,439
Speaker 1: everybody lost, everybody lost. Something is somebody you know in

1441
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:05,439
Speaker 1: this game, this death row thing. Nobody came out on

1442
01:23:05,640 --> 01:23:11,720
Speaker 1: top period shill night. You know, five million dollars years

1443
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:15,240
Speaker 1: in prison, everybody lost. So I think it should be

1444
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 1: buried up under rugs somewhere, and people just need to

1445
01:23:19,439 --> 01:23:27,160
Speaker 1: accept what's really out there, the truth. The killers are dead,

1446
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:31,080
Speaker 1: so you ain't gonna get a conviction. Let it go.

1447
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:37,200
Speaker 1: But people still see money and and other things in

1448
01:23:37,360 --> 01:23:42,679
Speaker 1: this But it's over. Well, Greg, can you tell everybody

1449
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 1: where they can get your book and let us know

1450
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:48,880
Speaker 1: what's going on with you? Yeah, so Murder Rapp being

1451
01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:51,960
Speaker 1: fighting you know, Amazon dot com anywhere where books are sold,

1452
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:54,519
Speaker 1: you can you can download it. There's a digital version

1453
01:23:55,360 --> 01:23:58,840
Speaker 1: and then uh um, of course that led to a

1454
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:03,519
Speaker 1: documentary that that's uh likely titled also Murder Wrap. And

1455
01:24:03,640 --> 01:24:06,160
Speaker 1: then there's a series it's kind of loosely based on

1456
01:24:06,200 --> 01:24:09,000
Speaker 1: the book called Unsolved. It was excuse me on Netflix

1457
01:24:09,080 --> 01:24:11,679
Speaker 1: last year. I've been watched that a few months ago.

1458
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:13,800
Speaker 1: It was pretty good, pretty good. Yeah, I mean you

1459
01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:17,439
Speaker 1: go one episode into the next episode and oh yeah

1460
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:20,680
Speaker 1: it was well done. Good thanks. Yeah, I thought so too.

1461
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:24,120
Speaker 1: That was USA, right, originally as USA, and then Netflix

1462
01:24:24,160 --> 01:24:26,840
Speaker 1: picked it up. Yeah. So where can people find you?

1463
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:29,760
Speaker 1: Are you on social media? On the internet website? Man,

1464
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:32,320
Speaker 1: I'm so easy to find, you know. I'm I've got

1465
01:24:32,439 --> 01:24:35,160
Speaker 1: a Facebook page, and you know, I'm always people ask

1466
01:24:35,240 --> 01:24:38,040
Speaker 1: me questions on Twitter. I just throw my email out there,

1467
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 1: so I'm always I'm always around an available to answer

1468
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:45,360
Speaker 1: questions because you know, I I put myself out there,

1469
01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:47,480
Speaker 1: and so now I have to deal with the responsibility

1470
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:49,880
Speaker 1: of that. And if people have questions, and you know,

1471
01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:54,840
Speaker 1: nothing's off the table um because I I feel that, um.

1472
01:24:55,520 --> 01:25:02,200
Speaker 1: You know, information is you know, his power, Sure it is.

1473
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:06,519
Speaker 1: And when people want to have closure, they want to

1474
01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:11,040
Speaker 1: find out what took place with these two gentlemen, I'm

1475
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:14,040
Speaker 1: gonna do everything I can to get those facts straight. Well,

1476
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:16,760
Speaker 1: I appreciate you spending a little time with us. I

1477
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:20,200
Speaker 1: see James has uh this bottle of wax. Tell us

1478
01:25:20,200 --> 01:25:23,160
Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, I just wanted to let everybody know

1479
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:27,360
Speaker 1: that I'm supporting my cousin. You know, he's a black

1480
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:31,400
Speaker 1: entrepreneur and himself. He he's into a little bit of everything,

1481
01:25:31,600 --> 01:25:36,200
Speaker 1: and and you know, uh, he was detailing my sister

1482
01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:40,120
Speaker 1: car and he got this merchandise which was in He

1483
01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:43,040
Speaker 1: made it all the way to the to wal Mart,

1484
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:46,320
Speaker 1: had his ship on the shelf, and you know, he

1485
01:25:46,520 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 1: just didn't have the exposure that he needed. So I

1486
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:53,599
Speaker 1: felt that it was only right that I help him out.

1487
01:25:54,120 --> 01:25:55,840
Speaker 1: You know, I'm helping family. I got a lot of

1488
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:59,719
Speaker 1: things going on that's in the community, trying to help

1489
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:02,680
Speaker 1: you know, our people, you know, the best way I

1490
01:26:02,840 --> 01:26:06,280
Speaker 1: can and to use my platform to help him. Uh,

1491
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:08,840
Speaker 1: I got him here. I want him to come and

1492
01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:12,040
Speaker 1: say where his product is. We're coming with a little

1493
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:16,320
Speaker 1: infomercials or whatever it is to explain how is his

1494
01:26:16,439 --> 01:26:20,320
Speaker 1: product work? And uh, you know, just trying to launch

1495
01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:22,560
Speaker 1: something and get it going. Let him come on the

1496
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:25,320
Speaker 1: micro real quick for a second and explain it briefly

1497
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:34,040
Speaker 1: before we wrap out the show. No, Greg, okay, real quick,

1498
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:38,560
Speaker 1: tell us about this wax. It's uh spray wax that

1499
01:26:39,120 --> 01:26:42,799
Speaker 1: you spill on your car keeps the car shigning for weeks.

1500
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:47,599
Speaker 1: Um It's really easy to use. Even after the rain,

1501
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:50,760
Speaker 1: it still has the car shining. I want to thank

1502
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:56,479
Speaker 1: the Gangster Chronicles and James for um let me uh

1503
01:26:56,760 --> 01:27:00,280
Speaker 1: just get the the all the all of the Uh

1504
01:27:01,320 --> 01:27:04,719
Speaker 1: you're a little nervous, y'all, so all of the people

1505
01:27:04,840 --> 01:27:08,559
Speaker 1: that you guys have watching the show, thanks for having

1506
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:11,599
Speaker 1: me come on. And uh, it's just a good product.

1507
01:27:11,880 --> 01:27:16,719
Speaker 1: I've watched a lot of Stars Cars and uh recently

1508
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:20,040
Speaker 1: kind of retired from detailing cars, and I can with

1509
01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:23,240
Speaker 1: this product right here, Magnificent Wax. How do people find

1510
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 1: the Magnificent Wax? If they want to get a bottle

1511
01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:27,760
Speaker 1: of it, you can go to Magnificent Wax dot com

1512
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:33,320
Speaker 1: and uh, yeah, we we shipped the product out and

1513
01:27:34,560 --> 01:27:36,960
Speaker 1: h can give it to you. We're gonna have all

1514
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:40,080
Speaker 1: of that. We're hooking it up. We're gonna everybody gonna

1515
01:27:40,120 --> 01:27:44,360
Speaker 1: see what to do. Uh at a letter date uh Friday,

1516
01:27:44,439 --> 01:27:47,200
Speaker 1: he will be uh with this little demonstration and then

1517
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:50,360
Speaker 1: to come on and on a little little bit of

1518
01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:54,439
Speaker 1: Gange Chronicles. People can see it and we're gonna try

1519
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:58,200
Speaker 1: to target some some some good names to put it

1520
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:01,559
Speaker 1: out there and we're gonna see what to do. Alright,

1521
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:05,479
Speaker 1: that's magnificent wax dot com. Go get you a bottle

1522
01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:08,680
Speaker 1: and uh thanks for coming on. And before we wrap

1523
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:10,519
Speaker 1: up the show, I need Greg to come back and

1524
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:12,880
Speaker 1: sit real quick. I just have this one final question.

1525
01:28:13,479 --> 01:28:14,960
Speaker 1: We didn't get to talk about it. I had to

1526
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:18,639
Speaker 1: hear in my notes, but I'm sure in your investigation, um,

1527
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:23,360
Speaker 1: the Frankliga and Kevin Gaines shooting came up. Was there

1528
01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:26,400
Speaker 1: anything about these two cops that had a road rage

1529
01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:30,920
Speaker 1: incident important in the investigation of the big killing? Now,

1530
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:34,640
Speaker 1: the only real connection between that incident and uh In

1531
01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:39,760
Speaker 1: in the murder investigation was just the lead that Kevin

1532
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:43,639
Speaker 1: Gaines was involved in a relationship with Sugar Knight. I'm sorry,

1533
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:46,880
Speaker 1: And it was Sugar Knight's wife, with Sharitha, and the

1534
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:49,759
Speaker 1: car that he was driving the day that that encounter

1535
01:28:49,880 --> 01:28:53,920
Speaker 1: took place was registered to her. And so for Russell Pool,

1536
01:28:55,280 --> 01:28:57,280
Speaker 1: you know, what came to mind is like, Okay, why

1537
01:28:57,400 --> 01:29:01,400
Speaker 1: is this l APD officer involved in a relationship with

1538
01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:06,240
Speaker 1: this with this rap rappers? You know, this CEO's wife

1539
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:10,599
Speaker 1: from this record label. So that was kind of for him,

1540
01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:14,519
Speaker 1: like what's going on? Why are our officers mixing with

1541
01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:20,160
Speaker 1: this with these people. And then as that question began

1542
01:29:20,240 --> 01:29:22,479
Speaker 1: to get asked, we found out that there were quite

1543
01:29:22,479 --> 01:29:25,280
Speaker 1: a few cops from different agencies that we're working for

1544
01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:29,200
Speaker 1: for death row records under right WY security. Well, that's

1545
01:29:29,240 --> 01:29:34,720
Speaker 1: problematic for law enforcement because you it's it's from their perspective,

1546
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:38,040
Speaker 1: a conflict of interest. You know, you've got an organization

1547
01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:42,000
Speaker 1: that is perceived as criminal to a certain degree, a

1548
01:29:42,040 --> 01:29:44,960
Speaker 1: bunch of gang members hanging out and drugs being dealt

1549
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:47,479
Speaker 1: around the studios, and a bunch of you know, people

1550
01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:51,800
Speaker 1: with guns, and then cops they're providing security. So that

1551
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:56,280
Speaker 1: was from the law enforcement perspective, there's just that's unacceptable.

1552
01:29:56,520 --> 01:29:59,360
Speaker 1: You're not going to mix those worlds once again. The

1553
01:29:59,600 --> 01:30:05,000
Speaker 1: gangs is too. Kevin Gaines was never found he had

1554
01:30:05,040 --> 01:30:08,479
Speaker 1: been a corrupt cop, right, No, there was a couple

1555
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 1: of road rage road rage incidents at No, there's no

1556
01:30:14,439 --> 01:30:16,720
Speaker 1: indication that he is a crep cop. No, but he

1557
01:30:16,920 --> 01:30:19,400
Speaker 1: had a temper and there was some reports about him

1558
01:30:19,439 --> 01:30:24,880
Speaker 1: having prior road rage. Accidents are incidents, and so when

1559
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:29,679
Speaker 1: it came down to you, really just only two people

1560
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:32,840
Speaker 1: were there, one lived, one didn't. So now you're only

1561
01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:36,360
Speaker 1: left with the story of the guy who survived, and

1562
01:30:36,479 --> 01:30:39,200
Speaker 1: he says that guy pulled up and was creating problems

1563
01:30:39,240 --> 01:30:43,680
Speaker 1: with me and I was defending myself. Well, it's kind

1564
01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:46,880
Speaker 1: of substantiated by the fact that, well, there was a

1565
01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:49,200
Speaker 1: pattern for Kevin Gaines to have done, you know, doing

1566
01:30:49,280 --> 01:30:52,280
Speaker 1: that type of thing. He just never encountered another armed

1567
01:30:52,360 --> 01:30:56,320
Speaker 1: cop before. Well, we're about to wrap up on that note.

1568
01:30:57,520 --> 01:31:00,200
Speaker 1: Frank Lager claims Kevin Gaines pulled his gun out for first,

1569
01:31:01,120 --> 01:31:03,759
Speaker 1: and then he shot in defense. But if Kevin Gaines

1570
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:07,120
Speaker 1: pulled his gun out first, wouldn't at least one bullet

1571
01:31:07,160 --> 01:31:13,040
Speaker 1: been fired something some some sort of shooting from his

1572
01:31:13,160 --> 01:31:16,759
Speaker 1: sidecom It's just pure speculation, you know. If if Gaines

1573
01:31:16,840 --> 01:31:19,559
Speaker 1: pulls his gun out really with no intent to shoot,

1574
01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:23,960
Speaker 1: he's just like, I'm scared this motherfucker. And then Leig

1575
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:26,160
Speaker 1: has already got his gun out because he's a cop

1576
01:31:26,200 --> 01:31:29,960
Speaker 1: who's expecting problems, so boom, he just shoots back real quick.

1577
01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:35,200
Speaker 1: That's probably the likely scenario. Alrighty, well, thanks for listening

1578
01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:38,200
Speaker 1: to another episode of The Gangster Chronicles. Everybody, thanks Greg

1579
01:31:38,280 --> 01:31:40,479
Speaker 1: Katie for coming down. Thanks for having me man. I

1580
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:43,320
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. It was good to hear from Reggie two.

1581
01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:46,000
Speaker 1: I was I was wondering how he was doing. And um,

1582
01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:47,960
Speaker 1: if you're looking for James McDonald, you can find him

1583
01:31:47,960 --> 01:31:50,800
Speaker 1: on Facebook with the Red Harley and then um on

1584
01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:53,439
Speaker 1: Instagram at B I G G J thirty six thirty

1585
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:56,120
Speaker 1: six and he still has no shirts, but at a

1586
01:31:56,160 --> 01:32:01,120
Speaker 1: different number, nine on nine three for there you go,

1587
01:32:01,479 --> 01:32:03,680
Speaker 1: and you can find me at alex Alonso one oh

1588
01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:06,800
Speaker 1: one on all social media platforms. I'm also on street

1589
01:32:06,880 --> 01:32:09,640
Speaker 1: Gangs dot Com and Great Kitting. Do you want to

1590
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:12,640
Speaker 1: put out any locations where they can find you or

1591
01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:17,599
Speaker 1: they just like my home address? No, no online anywhere.

1592
01:32:17,720 --> 01:32:20,120
Speaker 1: If someone wanted to send you a message right now,

1593
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:22,160
Speaker 1: it's the easiest way to send you a message. Yeah, actually,

1594
01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:26,320
Speaker 1: it's just my Gmail or my email GM G A,

1595
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:29,600
Speaker 1: I can't even remember my own email. Just find me

1596
01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:31,960
Speaker 1: on Facebook. Okay, So that's it. You can find him

1597
01:32:31,960 --> 01:32:34,040
Speaker 1: on Facebook. I'm sure if you just type grad Kating

1598
01:32:34,720 --> 01:32:37,200
Speaker 1: pretty unique names. Not I'm sure there's a few other

1599
01:32:37,400 --> 01:32:40,160
Speaker 1: great Kattings out there on Facebook. But you can find

1600
01:32:40,240 --> 01:32:43,320
Speaker 1: him on on Facebook as well. And don't forget to

1601
01:32:43,360 --> 01:32:46,000
Speaker 1: download the Himalaya app if you want to listen to

1602
01:32:46,280 --> 01:32:49,160
Speaker 1: this show and subscribe to it. It's the Red Eye

1603
01:32:49,200 --> 01:32:52,240
Speaker 1: kind of with the Hi in it, and we are

1604
01:32:52,360 --> 01:32:58,400
Speaker 1: out and don't forget. Magnificent wax dot com piece by