1 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: Diversion audio the d Day Landings of June sixth, nineteen 2 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:26,319 Speaker 1: forty four, our standard curricula for American public schools. We 3 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: all learned about the Allied victory there. What we didn't 4 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: learn about was the wild purge that happened the weeks 5 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: and months after the liberation of France. Allied troops swept 6 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: through towns to liberate French citizens, and a group of 7 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: vigilantes swept through right behind them to punish those who 8 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: had collaborated with the Nazis. Some of that mob were 9 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: loyal resistance members. Some of them had collaborated themselves and 10 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: were anxious to clear their own names before official punishment happened. 11 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: One group of the most brutally punished by these vigilantes 12 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: were the horizontal collaborators. These were women accused of sleeping 13 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: with the enemy. Of course, some women had slept with 14 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: Nazi officers, some of them were sex workers, some of 15 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: them were raped. Some of them had nothing but the 16 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: briefest encounters with German soldiers, but were accused of collaboration 17 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: out of personal vendetta. Most of the women accused of 18 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: horizontal collaboration were single, unmarried, widowed, or alone because their 19 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: husbands were in prisoner of war camps. But all of 20 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: those accused were women, and all of those who inflicted 21 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: the punishment were men. Their punishment started with public humiliation. 22 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: The vigilantes shaved their heads, stripped them half naked, mirrored 23 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: them with tar, and marched them through the streets onlookers 24 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: taunted them and spat on them, and sometimes they were 25 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: even killed. Records show that about six thousand people were 26 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: killed during the vigilante justice of the Wild Purge, and 27 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: those weren't the serious collaborators, those who committed serious crimes. 28 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: They were mostly women who were accused of consorting with 29 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: the enemy. Welcome to the greatest true crime stories ever told. 30 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: I'm Mary Kay mcbraer. Today's episode we're calling Coco Chanel 31 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: and the Aryan Laws. It's the story of the famous 32 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: French fashion designer, but maybe not as you've heard it before. 33 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: You're probably at least somewhat aware of how Coco's designs 34 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: influence women's fashions in the nineteen twenties through the present, 35 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: and if you're not, I'll fill you in on that 36 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: history too, But you may not be as familiar with 37 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: the more shocking parts of her life the parts that 38 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: deal with Nazi collaboration, the parts to do with invoking 39 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: the Aryan laws against her Jewish business partners. This is 40 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: part two of the story. So if you haven't heard 41 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: part one yet, pause me. Go listen to that first, 42 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: and then meet me back here. If you're already caught up, 43 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: then you know is about to go down. I'll refresh 44 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: your memory on what happened in the first part of 45 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: this story, and then I'll tell you everything else that 46 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: followed right after the break. In our first episode about 47 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: co Go Chanel and the Aryan laws, we talked a 48 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: lot about the offenses she committed. This time, we're going 49 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: to talk about how officials treated and or punished those offenses. 50 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: But I also want to take a minute and address 51 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: what might be on a lot of listener's minds as 52 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: it pertains to the way we live our individual lives 53 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: here and now in the midst of cancel culture, A 54 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: lot of listeners might be wondering is it okay to 55 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: buy or where Chanel. Obviously, the decision is yours. I 56 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: won't tell you what to do one way or the other, 57 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: but the ethics of our consumer purchases is something to 58 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 1: consider right I know, I personally hate it when the 59 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: media reveals someone whose products I enjoy was a terrible person. 60 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: For example, how impossible is it to enjoy the Cosby 61 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: Show reruns nowadays, even though there were a ton of 62 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: other people who worked on the series, And nothing exists 63 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: in a vacuum, and it doesn't necessarily make you a 64 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: bad person by proxy. You just can't enjoy stuff in 65 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: the same way. Not that Coco Shanell has built Cosby, 66 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: but that was the first example I thought of in 67 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: which someone that used to give me great joy and 68 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 1: feel good energy God smashed the smotherings. Anyway, we know 69 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: that cancel culture as a whole doesn't work, but thoughtful 70 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: people like us like to make informed decisions For that reason, 71 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,799 Speaker 1: I'm going to extend the story a little bit farther 72 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: than we normally do on the show. So yes, we're 73 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: going to talk about Coco's offenses and how and if 74 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: she was punished. As you likely have deduced, Coco Shanell 75 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: is no longer with us, but the Chanelle Company is 76 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: very much still alive. So once we've talked about Coco herself, 77 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: I'm continuing the narrative to address sort of where the 78 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: chips fell. Regarding the Chanelle company itself, don't worry. It's 79 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 1: a suspenseful story full of intrigue, and you'll be glad 80 00:05:52,920 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 1: we took it all the way to the end. Okay, 81 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: When we last left Coco Chanel, she had collaborated with 82 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: Nazi spies on two missions. One of them were pretty sure. 83 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,679 Speaker 1: She did to free her nephew and adopted son Andre 84 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: from a German prisoner of war camp. She had just 85 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: found out that he had tuberculosis and his wife and 86 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: two daughters were freaking out without him. So not that 87 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: it's ever okay to collude with Nazis, but the first 88 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: hit is at least somewhat understandable. And then she executed 89 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:38,119 Speaker 1: another mission, this time meeting with Hitler's counterintelligence chief Walter 90 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: Schellenberg to try to convey a peace agreement to Coco's 91 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: buddy Winston Churchill. Even this we might be able to 92 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: equivocate for if she was under duress. What we can't 93 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: rationalize on Coco's behalf is that she lived in the 94 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: Nazi headquarters. They had commandeered the Ritz Hotel in Paris, 95 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: and only very special non Germans were even allowed to 96 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: visit let alone live there. Sure, she had lived there 97 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: since nineteen thirty, but now no one but Nazis and 98 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: their collaborators was at the Ritz. Another untenable fact we 99 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: had covered on the last episode. Koko had a romantic 100 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: affair with a man whom she knew was a Nazi spy, 101 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: and not just once, not just a woke up the 102 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: morning after and realized the bedspread was a Swastika quilt. 103 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: Before she kicked Rocks on the Ultimate Walk of Shame, no, 104 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: Koko had an affair with Hans guntervon Dinklaga for over 105 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: a decade. She also tried to invoke the Aryan laws 106 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: on her business partners, Pierre and Paul Werdimer. Under the 107 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: new laws, Jewish people were not allowed to hold businesses 108 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: and they were forfeited to the Vishy administration. Koko wrote 109 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: the Nazis to say she was an Aryan and as 110 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: a part owner, she should be able to recover the 111 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: company herself. This one's pretty incorrigible. I mean, sure, you 112 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: might want to save your company, but at what point 113 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: is an alliance with the Nazis worth the blast to 114 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: your integrity? To make matters more clear, when the VC 115 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: administration told her that actually the Wartimers had already sold 116 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: their shares to another Aryan owner. Coco did not back off. 117 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: She doubled down. She said it was a lie, and 118 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: she pushed even harder to try to get the Nazis 119 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: to commandeer the company on her behalf. There's no excusing that, 120 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: there's no rationalizing with well, maybe she was going to 121 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: give it back to them. In the end, she wasn't. 122 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: She had already tried to sue them over a contract, 123 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: the terms of which she had suggested, saying they committed 124 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: a breach that they did not commit, and she failed. 125 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: The fact is the Wartimers expected this betrayal and they 126 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: were ready for it. Just before Pierre and Paul fled 127 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: the Nazi occupation in nineteen forty one, they met with 128 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 1: an old friend. That friend was French engineer Felix Amio, 129 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: and the brothers sold Felix their shares of the company 130 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: because they knew this was going to happen. Felix was 131 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: an engineer who manufactured weapons for the Luftwaffa, so he 132 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: was pretty untouchable. But Felix also helped Pierre's son Jacques 133 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: escape the German prisoner of war camps. When all the 134 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: Werdermers finally made it to New York City by way 135 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 1: of both Spain and Brazil, they sent an emissary from 136 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: New York back to Paris. He had retrieved the formula 137 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: of the Chanelle Perfume so that they could start manufacturing 138 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: number five on American soil. That was not a violation 139 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 1: of their contract. By the way, from what I can deduce, 140 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: the reason why they had to sneak back the formula 141 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: at all is because they had to literally flee the 142 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: country and they probably didn't have time to procure their 143 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: recipe on the way. And now you know, Paris was 144 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: swarming with Nazis at the time. They probably wouldn't have 145 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 1: taken kindly to anyone trying to help the Jews. How 146 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: Gregory got the recipe back remains a secret. He never 147 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: shared the exact method, not even after the Wortimers appointed 148 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: that emissary as the president of Chanel, and not even 149 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: after he worked at the company for thirty seven years. 150 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 1: After the war, and now that the war had ended, 151 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: the Wardimers came back to Paris and demanded their company back. 152 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: It took several lawsuits, but they got it back. From Felix, 153 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: and they also got him off the execution block. He 154 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: might have been a collaborator, but he saved their company 155 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 1: for them, and he certainly saved the life of Pierre 156 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,239 Speaker 1: sun Jacques. Ultimately, these good turns he did the Wortimers 157 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: saved Felix's life when the French government came back to 158 00:10:53,320 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: smoke out collaborators, and that is exactly what they did. 159 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: The French resistance's first order of business was to round 160 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 1: up all the French citizens who had collaborated with the 161 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: Nazis and prosecute them to the fullest degree. One of 162 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: the most vivid images for me personally is the arrest 163 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: of all the quote horizontal collaborators, that is, French women 164 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: who consorted with the Nazis sexually. Some of these women 165 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: had to resort to sex work just to keep from starving, 166 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: but they were shown no mercy. The French forces of 167 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: the Interior, a largely vigilante group, dragged these women partly 168 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: or fully nude from their homes, shaved their heads in 169 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: the street, and marked them with a swastika. Coco Chanel, 170 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: who was actually a horizontal collaborator, didn't undergo any treatment 171 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: like this. Coco's first order of business was dispensing free 172 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: bottles of Chanel number five to American gi so they 173 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: could give them to their girlfriends back home. You might 174 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: be wondering, was that a PR stunt, a survival move, 175 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: or a genuine celebration. Why pick just one. I think 176 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: it could have been some of all of those motivations, 177 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: But of course that's just my opinion, and I'm not 178 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: sure it made much difference regardless. Two weeks after the liberation, 179 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: Cocoa was arrested for collaboration. After the liberation of Paris, 180 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: one French writer calculated that there were between thirty and 181 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: forty thousand collaborators executed. First of all, that's a huge number, 182 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: and secondly, that is a huge range from what I've read. 183 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: The reason why the number of possible executions span a 184 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: difference of ten thousand lives is because it was drumhead justice. 185 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: Not everyone got a trial. Not At first, collaborators risked 186 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 1: being shot in the street on site. General Charles de 187 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: Gaulle ended that hunt by establishing special courts to deal 188 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: with collaborators, and he labeled them with the crime national unworthiness. 189 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: I feel like I have to reiterate here at the 190 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: time when people collaborated with the Nazis during the war, 191 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: that wasn't illegal. It wasn't technically a crime. I mean, 192 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: it was exactly wrong and evil, but it wasn't illegal. 193 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: So when we talk about collaborators as criminals, it's just 194 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: something to keep in mind. Even though Paris had been 195 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:56,439 Speaker 1: occupied by Nazis for years, the French resistance still existed, 196 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: and now that the city had been liberated from the Germans, 197 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,199 Speaker 1: those resistance fighters, most of whom used their own weapons 198 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: and wore civilian clothing, had collected into a unit called 199 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: the French Forces of the Interior. Coco had been on 200 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: the FFI's blacklist for years. She called them the FIFIS. 201 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: A handful of these young resistance fighters came to arraign 202 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: her at the Ritz in September of nineteen forty four. 203 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: By all accounts, she was more insulted by the bad 204 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: manners and rude dress of the FFI than her actual arrest. 205 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: I just have to say, of course they weren't polite. 206 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: Arresting officers don't do that. They might be decent, but 207 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: they're not considering your feelings, lady. That's not the priority. 208 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: They were there to arrest her, and they themselves had 209 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: been hunted down by Nazis for years. Granted, I wasn't 210 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: there for the arrest, and I don't know how rude 211 00:14:55,680 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: they were. Coco was interrogated for a few hours, but 212 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: the FFIs had no record of her secret work. They 213 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: didn't know about her collaboration on the mission to Madrid, 214 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: and they didn't know about her involvement in the model 215 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: hat mission earlier this same year. And so just like that, 216 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: she was released back to her second department she went. 217 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: Coco told her niece Gabrielle that her friend Winston Churchill 218 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: had her freed. That point has never been proven, although 219 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: one theory claims that Chanelle knew Winston had violated his 220 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: own Trading with the Enemy Act. The Act criminalized conducting 221 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: business with the enemy during wartime, and the rumor was 222 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: that Winston paid the Germans to protect the Duke of 223 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: Windsor's properties in Paris. To support that theory, the Duke's 224 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: property never was touched, not even after he was exiled 225 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: and became a governor of the Bahamas. Another theory, and 226 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: in my opinion, an equally likely one, is that they 227 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: hadn't yet compiled a full case against Coco. So many 228 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: of these documents were squirreled away or destroyed or classified 229 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: until the twenty tens that she passed the first battery 230 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: of questions simply on lack of evidence. But speaking of Edward, 231 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: Duke of Windsor. When Coco made it back to her 232 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: apartment from that initial investigation, she got a message from 233 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: her longtime friend. He said, don't lose a minute, get 234 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: out of France. So she left her chauffeur took her 235 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: in her Cadillac limousine to Switzerland. This in itself implies 236 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: some level of guilt. To me. Again, I wasn't there, 237 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: and I don't know how bad it was. The Wild 238 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: Purge was still happening, and I'm sure that was a 239 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: terrifying crossfire to find one's self in, regardless of actual guilt. 240 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 1: But people in Paris did know about her past, even 241 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 1: if they didn't have the documents in hand to prove it. 242 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: They wondered if her luck could hold out. Two years later, 243 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: in May of nineteen forty six, officials opened a case 244 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: against her. In the decades since, that dossier has disappeared 245 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: from the French Justice Department's National archives. The index card 246 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: labeled with her name and penal code, though signifies that 247 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: the investigation dealt with espionage. Cobol was summoned many times 248 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 1: before she finally appeared before Judge Fernand Paul Leclerc. Now 249 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: they had their records. Louis de Vaufrelund had testified Louis 250 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: was the guy who had helped Koko free her nephew 251 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,959 Speaker 1: Andre from that prisoner of war camp, and Louis had 252 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: testified that Koko was collaborating through intelligence, but by this 253 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: time Koko had been carefully coached by her lawyers. She 254 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: denied that the trip to Madrid had to do with 255 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 1: anything other than opening new boutiques. She claimed that she 256 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: never asked Louis for help to free Andre. The judge 257 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: brought up that she was on record registered as a 258 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: Nazi intelligence agent. Koko said she was never aware of 259 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: that registration. The judge did not ask about Operation Model Hut, 260 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: which was her trip to speak with the Nazi chief 261 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: of intelligence, Walter Schellenberg, and he did not ask about 262 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: her wartime relationship with the SS Officer Baron Hans guntervan 263 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: din Glaga. Either. Biographers state that it is possible US 264 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: intelligence sources may have never shared the facts of Koko 265 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 1: involvement with Model Hunt. Plus the details of her collaboration 266 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 1: were hidden in French, German, Italian, Soviet and US archives. 267 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: German authorities even purged French intelligence files as they were 268 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: fleeing Paris, and they shipped them first to Berlin and 269 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 1: then to Moscow, and that's where they stayed until nineteen 270 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: eighty five, four decades later. The judge did ask about 271 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 1: her attempt to quote get in touch with the Nazi 272 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: authorities in charge of the arianization of property or businesses 273 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: owned by Jews, in particular about the Werdimer ownership of 274 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: ninety percent of the Chanelle perfume business. Coco dodged the question. 275 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: She said the Chanel establishments were never sequestrated, there was 276 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: a temporary administrator for around three weeks, and the business 277 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: aaryanized thanks to a scheme of the Wardimer brothers with 278 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: one of their friends. It is possible that Vaferlund overheard 279 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: a conversation on this subject, but I didn't ask anything 280 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: of him. The questioning about that part of her collaboration 281 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: ended there. Apparently the judge did not know about the 282 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: trust that the Wardimer set up with Felix Amyo. From 283 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: nineteen forty five on, Koco had been buying the silence 284 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: of people who knew about her collaboration. What surprises me, though, 285 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 1: is that Pierre and Paul Werdimer didn't say a word. 286 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: Pierre had even discovered that Chanel was manufacturing her perfume 287 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: in Switzerland. It was a clear breach of their nineteen 288 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: twenty four agreement, which entitled them to sole rights of 289 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: production and manufacturing, and they didn't push on that either. 290 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 1: The fact that they said nothing is wild to me. 291 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: I love having the last word and to be frank. 292 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: That is why I will never really be rich. I 293 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: would rather be right, But being right is not a 294 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 1: long term win, and the Wordermers, as I continue to reiterate, 295 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 1: were in it for the long haul. In nineteen forty seven, 296 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: Pierre and his lawyer met with Coco and Hers in 297 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: his offices in Paris. In a move that I can't 298 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: really fathom without knowing the future. Pierre offered Coco fifty 299 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: thousand dollars and a small additional percentage of sales. It 300 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: was a negotiation, so Coco asked for more. By the 301 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: end of the talk, they agreed on three hundred and 302 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars cash for Coco and two percent of 303 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: all sales, not two percent of profits, two percent of sales. 304 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 1: Coco left happy, she told a friend, Now I'm rich. 305 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: Coco felt like she had won, and honestly, looking at it, 306 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: from my point of view, if the story ended here, 307 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: then I would have to agree. But Pierre knew what 308 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: he was doing. To recap again, because if you're like me, 309 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: his decision just doesn't track without more reflection. Pierre could 310 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: have sued the shit out of Coco when she was 311 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: on trial for trying to arianize the company. If he 312 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 1: had done that, yes, all of her collaboration would have 313 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: come out and she would have likely been punished for 314 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: her crimes. But the secret arrangement between the Werdermer's and 315 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: Felix am Yo might have come out as well. From 316 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: what I can tell, it wasn't illegal, but it was 317 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: kind of icky. It might have also exposed their emissary 318 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 1: h Gregory Thomas for his part in the plot as well, 319 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: and they ended up making Gregory the company's president for 320 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: thirty seven years, So that wouldn't do. And even if 321 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: all of that had been above board, or at least 322 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: grandfathered in now that the Nazis were out, that negative 323 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: press that would come with a court case would have 324 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,719 Speaker 1: damaged the company name, and the name Chanelle was the 325 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: whole point of the deal. The Wortimers were already established 326 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: as perfume makers long before that first meeting with Coco 327 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: at the horse Track, but Chanelle number five was their 328 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: real money maker. So to simplify, Pierre Wortimer peered into 329 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 1: the future with the foresight of a true business person, 330 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: and he chose generational wealth over being right in the moment. 331 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: Even with the outcomes in clear, bold face like that, 332 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: I'm still not sure I could make the smarter decision 333 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: like he did. What truly incredible resolve. A lot of 334 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: time passed between this new deal between Coco and the 335 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 1: Wordimers and the next bullet point of our story. So 336 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: we're skipping forward eight years. It's nineteen fifty four. Coco 337 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: Chanel wanted to comeback, so she came back to Paris 338 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: and she debuted her first fashion line since before the 339 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: war Listeners. It did not go well. A French reporter 340 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: from a major daily magazine wrote, quote, everyone had come 341 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: to the show hoping to find again the atmosphere of 342 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: the collections that had bowled over Paris in the years 343 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: gone by. But there is nothing of that left, only 344 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: mannequins who paraded before an audience that cannot bring itself 345 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: to applaud yikes. By now, Coco's creations might have been 346 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: very successful, but her business was in bad shape financially. 347 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: This new collection to supply her comeback had cost thirty 348 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: five million francs, which is over one million and one 349 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars today, and her show had flopped. So 350 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: Pierre stepped in to help again. Coco sold the Wordimers 351 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: her shares of the fashion company. She sold them her 352 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: commercial real estate and all her holdings with the Chanelle name. 353 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: In exchange, the Wordimers paid all her expenses that included 354 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: her apartment at the Ritz, her domestic help, and all 355 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 1: other costs of living. In exchange, she had to assist 356 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: with the development of new perfumes and run her co 357 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: Chuer house. Again, Coco felt like she had won. But listeners, 358 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: you know that's not where our story ends. I'll tell 359 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: you all about the poetic justice of Coco Chanel and 360 00:25:55,160 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: the Aryan laws right after this break, we left Chanelle. 361 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty six, just after her return to Paris 362 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: Koacher had flopped, Pierre Werdimer stepped in and he bought 363 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,719 Speaker 1: her out. Coco still designed, and Pierre paid all her bills, 364 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: and they were both happy with this arrangement. They were 365 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: especially happy when Coco released the tweed skirt suit. You know, 366 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: the one that she's still famous for, the one that 367 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: could be seen on everyone whose fashion sense mattered. I 368 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: mean Elizabeth Taylor, Jane Fonda, Romy Schneider, and of course 369 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: first Lady Jackie Kennedy true crime people. You know whose 370 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: pink tweed suit Jackie O was wearing during President Kennedy's assassination. 371 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: You sure do. That tweed skirt suit is still ubiquitous 372 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: because it's professional and practical. For decades, famous women wore 373 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: the Chanelle suit. Here are some more name drops, Claudia Schiffer, 374 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: Barbara Walters, Princess Diana. And while they were wearing the 375 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: Chanelle suit, the world forgot about the scandal of Coco 376 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 1: Chanelle's Nazi collaboration, or rather they never knew about it. 377 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty five, Pierre Wordimer died. He left his 378 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: son Jacques, the same one who had escaped France during 379 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: the war, in charge of the Chanelle Company and other 380 00:27:55,600 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: business ventures. Coco died just six years later and nighteen 381 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: seventy one, in her bed at the Ritz Again. I 382 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: want to reiterate, the Chanelle Company was now completely owned 383 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: by the Werdimer family. They had bought out the finder's 384 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: twenty percent and on her death, with no heirs, Chanelle's 385 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: shares went to Pierre or in this case his air. 386 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 1: Now the company's management fell to Jacques because he focused 387 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: his attention on other ventures. Though Chanelle languished, but only 388 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 1: for a little while. Just three years later, when they 389 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: were twenty five and twenty three, Jacques's son Aline and 390 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: Gerrard convinced the members of the board to allow them 391 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: to run Chanel. Alan saw the problem. He reigned in 392 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: distribution to create scarcity of the long beloved perfume, no 393 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: more shelf space in drug stores. Their Sense and New 394 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: cosmetics lines would only sell in high end stores. Alan 395 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: also insisted on a produced ready to wear line, and 396 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: then he hired an incredible ad executive to run their 397 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: business in America. It was she that ad exec who 398 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: hired Carl Lagerfeld to revitalize the fashion house in nineteen 399 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: eighty three, which he did to this day. Alene and 400 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: Gerard Wortimer run the Chanelle company. They're quiet people. They 401 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: don't sit front row at Chanelle fashion shows. They seldom 402 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,479 Speaker 1: talk to the news media, and when they get around Paris, 403 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: they typically drive a French hatchback. They live like old 404 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: money aristocracy, keeping to themselves, and they're widely known as 405 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: fashion's quietest billionaires. I know it's ghosh to talk about 406 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: other people's money, but I have to share this beautiful 407 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: retribution figure with you. In twenty eighteen, for the first 408 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: time in Chanelle's history, the company revealed their sales numbers. 409 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: Are you ready? I can't even get my head around 410 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: this figure. Nine point six two billion dollars in sales. 411 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: At the top of the show, I mentioned that we'd 412 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: talk about the ethics of buying Chanel products. I hope 413 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: these concluding facts help clear up any doubts for you. I, 414 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: for one, would not feel at all guilty for wearing 415 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: Chanell creations. In fact, if and when I received compliments, 416 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: I would probably recel this whole story in as much 417 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: detail as I could remember and as that well intentioned 418 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: stranger edged away. I'd tried to air drop them the 419 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: link to this episode. So if you're wondering about the 420 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: morality of purchasing Chanel products, or if you're wondering whether 421 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: your grandmama was a secret Nazi because she wore number five, 422 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: I think you can easy join me next week on 423 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: the Greatest true crime Stories ever told. For our three 424 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: part episode on Susie Newsom Lynch, a woman who came 425 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: from a family of wealthy Southern aristocracy and who became 426 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: a family annihilator, I'd like to shout out a few 427 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: key sources that made it possible for me to tell 428 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: this week's two part story about Coco Chanel and the 429 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: Aryan Laws. First the two documentaries, The Wars of Coco 430 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: Chanel and Becoming Chanel, and then there's hal Vaughan's book 431 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: Sleeping with the Enemy. And on top of those, there 432 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: are a ton of articles I referenced in The New 433 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: York Times, PBS, BBC, The New Yorker, and even trade 434 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: magazines like Forbes and The Business Insider. So if you're 435 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: interested in this story, please check out our full list 436 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: of sources, which are detailed and linked in Our show's 437 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: notes The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told is a 438 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: production of Diversion Audio. I'm Mary Kay mcbraer and I 439 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: hosted this episode. I also wrote this episode. Our show 440 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: is produced by Emma Dumouth and edited by Antonio Enriquez. 441 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: Theme music by Tyler Cash. Executive producer Scott Waxman.