WEBVTT - Voices of Revolution 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:05.600 Hey everybody, I'm Robert Evans. This is not really an 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:07.760 episode of Behind the Bastards. I just wanted to make 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:09.879 sure people had access to the full audio of all 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:12.920 of the interviews I conducted for the World is Burning 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:17.439 episode that ran earlier this week. So this episode is 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:20.319 just the unedited audio of all of those interviews. UM. 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:24.280 There will be a normal episode coming on Thursday as well. UM. 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:27.680 So to start off, we have the unedited audio of 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:31.520 my interview with those two Chilean activists. Uh, and I'm 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:35.519 gonna play that right now. Yeah. So, UM, would you 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:38.519 guys give or you Stephanie, if you'd like give an 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:42.000 overview in your own words of Whitey's protests started obviously 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:45.640 like the kind of foreign headline is uh bus or 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:49.520 a public transit? You know, fair increase leads to protests. 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:52.040 My understanding is that's just sort of kind of the 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:55.240 spark that lit a bunch of tinder on fire. Yeah, 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:59.560 but I'm interested in Yeah, what what you blame it on? Yeah? 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:05.160 We the last year we are participating in different products 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:13.240 for these a different think about um problems that we 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:18.360 have almost the almost started with the Pinal chest, with 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:25.880 the queue, start about the common with the pension plan 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:31.640 system and in the education that is really high goals 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:42.120 and uh, the health care problem and really expensive transportation 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:55.600 and hum and the commomale commale commer Yeah, the minimum 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:59.120 wages very low. So yeah, it's like you said, um 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:05.000 where what initially started this protest was a group a 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:11.239 bunch of students who were evading UH the metro so 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:15.040 to protest the rise in the fair which is the 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:20.840 second or third time they've raised the metro uh in 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:24.440 the last three years. Um. And so it's the most 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:29.639 expensive metro in South America. And and even though for 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:32.079 someone from the United States it might seem it's still 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:34.400 very cheap or how are they only protesting over ten 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:38.840 more cents or whatever? But um, in Chile, if you 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.079 make the minimum wage, you could be spending almost of 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:46.000 your wage on the metro. It is very expensive here. 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:50.280 And UH. So what happened is a lot of students 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.639 were getting together as like a big group, and so 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:55.240 there would be hundreds of them and they would all 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.840 rush into the metro together and jump over the turnstiles 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:03.560 and so the uh that's how it all started. And 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:07.720 then the police were very heavy handed in their reaction 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:12.160 and got very violot and then it got kind of 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:16.440 worse from there, and so the protest exploded into more 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:20.480 of a general protest because Um, there's been a lot 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.960 of problems in Chile and there's a lot of um 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:28.839 inequality and a lot of things that have never been 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:34.640 fixed since the since the dictatorship, so they're still using 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:41.119 the same constitution that was written by Pino j and um. Yeah, 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:46.200 and there's lots of other things, Yeah, the corruption of Pinera, 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.120 the current president, and then a lot of protests over 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.800 the last couple of years about the pension plans, the 0:03:52.680 --> 0:04:02.040 a FP and so of company, UM, selling land of 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:08.560 for hydro electric companies too only for business. And it's 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:14.640 really interesting because in Chilen almost uh ten family are 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:20.520 they have control uh for of the they are they 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:30.920 they are they have control with the core control rica. Yeah. 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:34.080 So it's it's similar to the United States, where there's 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.560 you know, a couple of hundred billionaires that are kind 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.560 of controlling every day, but in Jilian it's literally ten 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:45.400 families and these ten families are very very rich and 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:48.880 have a lot of control in the country. UM. But 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.720 but yeah, so it's it's about a lot of things. UM, 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:56.920 the protest now and uh would you you're walking in 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:06.480 this no? Please continue? Please continue? Now in this Um 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:12.880 you know this uh Perio Perio of the Pineria that 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:18.320 is the president. Is it the second um Perio second 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:24.080 term term? Yeah, they has So I think all the 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:31.719 Chilean think that the cops in Um in the terms 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:37.640 of the Pinera, they are more aggressive this year in 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:43.679 all the term. So there's also, yeah, a big issue 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:49.760 with like the militariation, militarization of the of the police. Yeah, 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.679 so the police are really heavy, and like she was saying, 0:05:53.040 --> 0:06:00.520 especially with under under Piera, the police respond to often 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:06.440 peaceful protests with with dear guys and um and violence. 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.160 And now of course there's been declared the state of 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:13.120 emergencies and now you have the military in tanks in 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.760 the streets too. And why you said that the police 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:20.360 have gotten more aggressive and more violent this year, Why 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:22.880 would you do you have do is there a reason 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:25.240 behind that? Do you think like, is there some sort 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.280 of cause to that that you can see? No, it's 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:32.160 not any reason. It's only a strategy of the government. 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:36.040 But it is a bad idea. And in Um a 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:40.120 couple of months ago we saw some car of the cuffs, 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:45.600 uh driving in the in the passel really traditionally the 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:52.719 center of the city and uh tear gas. Oh yeah, yeah. 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:57.320 A couple of months ago there was some crazy protests 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.880 and the police were We're driving through like plazid there 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:04.520 almost like the downtown, like the center of the historic 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:08.440 center of town and and and throwing tear guys at 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:11.760 people who aren't even protesting. And um, but to answer 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.040 your question, I think that it just has to do 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.360 with the government, because, um, a couple of years ago 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:22.520 the president was Bachelte, who is more center left, And 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:26.760 so I think the police now under Vinera, understand that 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:30.120 they kind of have carte blanche to do whatever they 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:35.679 want and that they won't be reprimanded for um violence 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:39.880 against protesters. And when this when this current wave of 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.920 like heavy street actions broke out, were y'all there for 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:45.720 sort of the beginning of that. Were you there and 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:48.679 sort of the first day that this like really kicked 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:51.240 off into um, you know, a citywide sort of thing 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:56.160 rather than just kind of a fair protest. Yeah, definitely, 0:07:56.360 --> 0:08:01.160 so we UM we live about step six or seven 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:07.000 blocks from the Plaza Talia, which is the Metro Baca Vado, 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:10.160 which is like the center of downtown, and it's the 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:16.320 historic place where protests always start and and so we're 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:18.559 kind of in the thick of it. And then also 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:22.520 we are right by this intersection where when the protest 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:27.600 really got serious two nights ago, Um, the there were 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:32.920 five buses that were burned right at our intersection. So, um, yeah, 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.800 it's kind of right outside our door. And uh, what 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:39.719 do you one of the Obviously, I think, probably internationally, 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.439 the most famous image from these protests so far is 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:47.280 the headquarters of that electric company um being burned down. Um. 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.719 And it's usually most of the sources I've seen have 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:53.280 ascribed it to the protesters, but I have seen a 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:56.280 lot of people saying that, um, it couldn't have been 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:58.920 protesters because the fire started on the floor that only 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:01.719 a limited number of people have access to. Obviously, I 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.200 don't think anyone can prove to a point of certainty 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:06.800 one way or the other what happened. Yet, Um, do 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:08.720 they all have sort of a take on that, an 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:10.839 opinion on that what you think is most likely what 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:16.199 most people seem to believe. Yeah, it's it's weird with 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:23.920 the busses the same us. It's crazy to believe because uh, 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:28.320 with with the problem with the buses, m we saw 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:32.240 a couple of videos and one of these busses was 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:38.959 sculpted for the Cups and really weird situations and almost 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.880 the bus they put in the place for the people 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:48.520 can learn in for angry and for the problem. So 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:53.360 this is not the first time that the Cups makes 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:58.920 stuff crazy like that. So you can think about and 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:03.880 can using your imagination to to think that it's real, 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:11.520 it's it's fake. Is yeah, like you know, we're not 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:17.559 typically uh like conspiracy theorist people, but as far as 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.920 like what a lot of people have been talking about 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:27.000 is with both the n L Electric Company UM, with 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:31.959 the fire that happened on their their staircase right there 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:36.640 fire escape UM, and there was a number of suspicious 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:38.880 things about it. You know, it's started on the eleventh floor, 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.079 so it's like, how could a protester do that? And 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:45.120 I don't know, UM, And of course it only burned 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:49.480 that the fire escape and it didn't touch anything about 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:51.640 the main building and there's so there's a lot of 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:57.600 suspicion here UM of that. And then uh, the idea 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:01.160 that possibly it was the police, so the government who 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:06.000 started that as in a way to justify um, bringing 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:09.720 in the military and all of that and starting the curfew. 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:16.000 And what's that thing is very similar is uh these 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:20.320 five buses that were burned outside of our apartment. UM. 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.079 It was very strange because yes, there's there's almost never 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:27.040 five buses all right next to each other on the 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.960 street in the corner and UM. And then there's also 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:33.400 been videos that have been passed around what'sapp and UM 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:38.760 social media where you see that these busses were like discontinued, 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:42.280 so they were already like in bad situation, their bad shape. 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.240 And then there's a video that's been passed around of 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:50.040 the police like escorting one of these busses, like very slowly, 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.400 almost like they're escorting it here so they can burn 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:57.160 it and again use it as justification, um to ratchet 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:01.199 up the police response. So it's hard to say, and 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.320 you know, you don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:10.240 but certainly there's uh, there there's suspicious things happening in 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.280 that regarded and on the street here. Almost every chile 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:16.040 and that we've talked to has has said that they 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:19.000 pretty much believe that it was the police that that 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:22.400 we're doing that. And in terms of what you've seen 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:25.040 in person from the police response to all this, how 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.880 would you how would you describe how you've watched the police, 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.319 uh deal with the protests so far? Like what have 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:38.000 you seen? Um? Just a lot of tear gas, a 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:43.960 lot of um the water cannons, mostly tear gas. Uh. 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:48.120 Just in in our experience, we've been kind of playing 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.280 it safe. We weren't getting really too too far into 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.800 the extreme protest. UM. We kept trying to go to 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.959 the center to Plaza Talia, but we kept getting pushed 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:03.280 back by tear guys us every time. UM. So. And 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:09.079 we've seen videos of extreme violence, the police beating people 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:14.600 and it's even hitting them with their cars, extreme stuff 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.199 and shooting them. Yeah, and there's been a lot of 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:22.360 videos we've seen on social media of the police shooting 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.559 innocent protesters not doing anything. But as far as what 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.959 we saw with our our own eyes, um, mostly just 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:31.280 a lot of tear gas. But sometimes it would be 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:35.439 just like peaceful protesters and the police would drive by 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.280 and literally throw a tear gas out the window a 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:44.040 canister and then drive away. So it's also it's also 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:47.840 interesting some people have been commenting that it's a little different. 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:52.360 It seems different the police strategy this time in comparison 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:57.599 to previous protests, whether they're not so much like cantling 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:03.000 the protesters or um, not so much getting into one. 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:08.760 I want physical like fistfights, um, which is a kid. 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.199 Some people are saying, you know that they watched the 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.760 protesters to get more extreme and burn more things and loot, 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:19.000 so that that justifies what they're doing. Yeah, and divide 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:25.080 the people because right now you have the more extreme 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:30.880 external people going and staff destroying the city, destroying the 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:37.760 pharmacy or the supermarket, and the people like us that 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:43.200 we take the the store when you shake with the 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:49.720 spoon all day and and when the police, um, you 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:51.640 can see the police and you need to run. So 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.680 uh So the government, I think they want to divide 0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:02.320 the feeling of the people, the feeling of the protests 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:08.800 and the union of the people and um yeah, um, 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:12.280 so yeah, they're they're just trying to divide the people 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:17.320 so that the people who might sympathize with the protesters 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:20.160 will say, no, they've gone too far. They started to 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:24.160 be burning things or or taking down h street lights 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:32.800 or or looting, um supermarkets, um so. Yeah, and uh 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.720 as for this curfew, like how long can you see 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.720 it last? It's so extreme it doesn't seem like civil 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:44.880 life could continue if it goes on for too much longer. Yeah, well, 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.600 it just started last night. Last night it started in o'clock, 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.880 and then tonight they started at seven o'clock. So it 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:54.200 is very extreme and the like I was saying to 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.960 you uh in texts that I mean, if it if 0:15:58.000 --> 0:15:59.720 it were to go on for two more weeks, it 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.480 would be insane. I can't imagine that that would happen. 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:06.480 It would shut down the entire city. Um. But at 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:10.960 the same time, I don't like tonight's protests were crazier 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:12.920 than last night. I don't know. I don't see how 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:18.960 it stops because Panierra doesn't seem like everything from the 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:22.800 government has been just attacking the protesters, not taking any 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:28.200 responsibility for the action of the police. Yeah, and I 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:32.480 don't know if that he shanged the price of the 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:37.640 ticket boss, if we are going to record the peace 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:42.480 in the city, the people have has too much angry, 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:46.880 So I don't know if we are going to be 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:54.240 confor um like satisfied. Panierra has mentioned that he might 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:58.800 um he might freeze the price increase for the Metro, 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.040 but at this point it's like that's not going to 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.879 be enough to satisfy people, because, as we mentioned, the 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:10.160 protest is about things much worse than the metro fare. 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.120 So uh yeah, I mean, like, I don't think people 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.439 will stop protesting in less Panera resigns. The people are 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:22.800 out there shouting and calling for his resignment, resignation, and um, 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.120 you know, I don't obviously I don't think he wants 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.240 to do that either. And if you could send out 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.480 a message to people from around the world, Americans in 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:36.560 Europeans and everyone else not in Chile listening to this, 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.080 what is it that you want other people to know 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:48.440 about what's happening in your country? UM, I don't know. 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:53.879 When when we live in um in Colombia. Um, the 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:58.719 most uh come on stuff that the people ask us. 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:07.600 It was why we leave Chile when Chile is so good, 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:13.160 so good country and all the system is so so good. 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:20.200 But the problem is that the problem is Chile has 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:25.320 a lot of problems for a long time, almost started 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:31.119 with the queue and we didn't have any solution for this. 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:37.120 So yeah, we are not a gay. We have problems. 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:41.280 We have a huge problems in the world. Uh, didn't 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:47.960 know any like that. So yeah, I guess I would 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:51.960 just say to people that, UM, I hope that people 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:56.960 are aware of what the Chileans are protesting for, and 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:00.800 that they understand that it's not about the match row fair. 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:05.479 It is not only about paying ten cents more, um, 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:12.000 that it's about deeper, profound issues at that are at 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:16.680 the core of this country, um, like for example, still 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:22.119 having the constitution that was written by a dictator and 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:27.359 things like that. UM. And so yeah, like Stephanie was saying, uh, 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:32.760 kind of that people maybe need to understand that that 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.720 life is really not so easy in Chile, or or 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:41.520 maybe it is easy um for of the country, but 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.840 a lot of the people here are really struggling and uh. 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:50.160 And the minimum wage is really really low and uh 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.240 and there's a lot of fundamental problems and and that's 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:55.960 why I think this is happening. So I would just 0:19:56.480 --> 0:20:03.119 ask people to, um, unders stand a little bit about 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:08.359 the other issues with them, with the constitution and the 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:12.080 corruption and the pension plans and the minimum wage and 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:17.560 all of those. And and even though I don't condone 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.200 looting or violence or anything like that, UM, I would 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:26.040 ask that people have some some empathy for the people 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:32.359 who are out here protesting for a better life. And obviously, 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:35.720 I think that the most well known protests occurring in 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:37.520 the world right now are the ones in Hong Kong, 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:40.560 and I think the tactics there, I've seen them used 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.320 encrypted by protest movements in a number of other countries 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:46.159 that are going on right now. Have you seen that 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:48.480 have any impact on the tactics people are using on 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:52.560 the ground, UM. I know that I've seen a lot 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:56.960 of people sharing videos on social media about like the 0:20:57.040 --> 0:21:05.240 Hong Kong protesters. UM, I like diffusing the tear gas canisters. 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:07.600 You know, they'll put a traffic pone on top of 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:11.400 it and then pour some some sort of chemical solution 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:13.879 in there and it it neutralizes it. So I know 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:16.560 that I haven't actually seen ay Chilean's do that, but 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:19.520 I know a lot of people were talking about that. UM, 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:23.000 and well we have seen we were just being watched 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:26.840 by a drone. UM. But I don't think the facial 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:30.320 recognition here in Chile is as strong as Hong Kong. UM. 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:33.200 But yeah, I think that part of it is. UM, 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:37.160 what's happening in Hong Kong and what's happy in Ecuador 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:42.920 right now is probably probably influencing the protesters here. Um. 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:46.480 And it seems just in the last week that protests 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:50.119 have started in a number of other countries. UM. Is 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:52.280 there any sort of feeling, at least from you, that 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:54.960 this is part of kind of a global You know, 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:57.080 you mentioned earlier in the interview that a lot of 0:21:57.280 --> 0:21:59.399 some of the problems that are happening in Chile right 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:01.359 now are are similar to someone that we're dealing with 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.040 in the United States and others, just like concentration of wealth. 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:07.480 Do you have a sense that, like the mass uprising 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:09.640 is going on in a number of nations, are all 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:13.000 sort of part of something global that's bigger than just 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:19.119 the movements in the individual countries. UM, I don't know. 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:22.119 I would like to thank so, UM. I would like 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:27.960 to think that, you know, hopefully we are opening our 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:35.760 eyes to the failures of neoliberalism. But UM, I don't know. 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:39.640 I don't know, if I don't know if there's there 0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:50.040 is a grander movement here sick I started. Still, yeah, 0:22:50.520 --> 0:23:03.000 but I don't connect. Movement doesn't clar am super milio. 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:14.000 So another thing is that, Um, we have the left 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:20.040 maybe is growing stronger and um, using more forceful methods 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:25.040 because of the growth of the extreme rights in in 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:29.160 uh you know, all over the world, um, but especially 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:33.280 feeling that in South America, UH with in Brazil and 0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:36.879 then also in Chile where you have, um, someone like 0:23:37.080 --> 0:23:41.879 Caste who was a presidential candidate who is extremely to 0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:45.000 the right, even more so than the current president. And 0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:53.399 and so I think that the the the maybe in 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:57.000 some ways the left is responding to that and a 0:23:57.160 --> 0:24:02.080 fear of the extreme authoritary and return to dictatorship, right 0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:07.480 like you have um with Bosonaro in Brazil or you 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:10.200 know cast who who who knows could be president of 0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:13.480 Chile one day. Well, thank you both very much for 0:24:13.600 --> 0:24:16.080 your time. I really appreciate you talking with me today. 0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:19.600 UM cool man. Yeah, that's all I wanted to get 0:24:19.640 --> 0:24:22.600 into right now. UM. Obviously I'll be in touch with 0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:24.440 you as I figure out kind of my schedule and 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:26.960 and please do keep me updated on on y'all and 0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:31.479 what you see happening outside your door. Okay, Yeah, definitely, 0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:34.639 I'm happy to send you some photos if you make 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:37.480 it down here. Um, well, we'll show you around and 0:24:38.680 --> 0:24:41.919 and yeah, send me a link to your podcast. Yeah, absolutely, 0:24:42.000 --> 0:24:45.359 Thank you both so much for your time. Okay, cool man, 0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:48.760 you have a good one, you too. By Okay, I'm back. 0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:51.960 And that was the Chile interview, and next we have 0:24:52.160 --> 0:24:55.119 my interview with Jody Ayoub over in Lebanon, So I'm 0:24:55.160 --> 0:25:01.160 going to play that now. Hey Joey, Hey, Hey, sorry, 0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:05.120 is this a good time still? Yeah? I'm doing good. 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:12.680 How are you doing today? Yeah? Uh? Well, UM, I 0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:17.840 guess we should just get into it. I'm I'm trying to. 0:25:18.119 --> 0:25:19.719 I'm doing as much reading as I can to try 0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:23.920 to understand what's happening um in Beirut right now. Um. 0:25:24.359 --> 0:25:27.320 And you know, obviously, UM, there's a lot to keep 0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:28.800 track of. You know, I've been, I've been. I've been 0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:31.840 covering Iraq and Syria for years, and I would say 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:36.560 I barely have a minimal level of competence in either 0:25:36.640 --> 0:25:39.480 of those nations politics. So I'm pretty new to focusing 0:25:39.520 --> 0:25:43.080 on what's happening in Beirut. Um. From what I've listened 0:25:43.080 --> 0:25:46.720 to or been able to read, it seems like, um, 0:25:47.160 --> 0:25:49.720 like the thing that the news is crediting for these 0:25:49.800 --> 0:25:52.480 uprising or for the uprising might not be the right word, 0:25:52.600 --> 0:25:56.239 but for these protests is attacks on what's app um 0:25:56.640 --> 0:25:59.800 when I've I've listened to or read things that other 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:02.720 people in the area have written. Um, it seems like 0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:05.800 the wildfires that swept the country, and like the fact 0:26:05.880 --> 0:26:09.040 that this helicopter fleet that was purchased by you know, 0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:13.320 volunteers and then like allowed to kind of, um decay 0:26:13.520 --> 0:26:16.960 into obsolescence. Like the fact that just in general the 0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:20.160 government has been very ineffective at dealing with major problems 0:26:20.240 --> 0:26:24.840 like those wildfires is a much bigger reason for the protests. Um. 0:26:24.960 --> 0:26:28.080 But I'm interested in kind of your telling of like 0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:31.239 why this has all happened, um and sort of how 0:26:31.320 --> 0:26:33.879 it's how it where you see things as being at 0:26:34.000 --> 0:26:37.840 right now. Yeah, So it's it's a bit of both, 0:26:38.200 --> 0:26:40.920 and obviously it's much more than that. At the same time, 0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:46.000 the wildfires that was last Monday, so that's the fourteenth, 0:26:46.240 --> 0:26:50.040 the night of lasted about eight hours and it was 0:26:50.080 --> 0:26:56.560 what hectares. Yeah yeah, and those putting that we lost 0:26:57.560 --> 0:27:01.479 basically years worth off peas lost usually, so I think 0:27:01.480 --> 0:27:07.600 there was something that clem against peas. That's horrible. That's 0:27:07.680 --> 0:27:12.399 usually an average Yeah. Uh So that obviously pissed a 0:27:12.440 --> 0:27:14.560 lot of people off because the government was utterly incapable 0:27:14.680 --> 0:27:18.879 on reading whatever we used to deal with it. You 0:27:19.000 --> 0:27:21.920 had pretty much we haven't had seven servants paid in 0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:23.879 like twenty years. Of these all volunteer forces, and you 0:27:24.000 --> 0:27:26.159 had you even had like this a defense forces from 0:27:26.160 --> 0:27:28.440 the Palestinian camps that stepped up. They helped, and you 0:27:28.520 --> 0:27:32.359 had basically volunteers just doing it themselves. There wasn't really 0:27:32.400 --> 0:27:36.520 anything until two things happened that put them off. One 0:27:36.880 --> 0:27:41.320 is Greece cyclists in Jordan basically sent some you know, 0:27:41.400 --> 0:27:44.439 helicopters and whatever. And the other thing is we got 0:27:44.560 --> 0:27:48.879 lucky because it started gaining the day after. Yeah, so 0:27:49.280 --> 0:27:53.119 that's pretty much why, like we the damage was more 0:27:53.200 --> 0:27:54.920 or less limited, if you want. And so the fact 0:27:54.960 --> 0:27:57.600 that after all of this, just like a day later 0:27:57.720 --> 0:27:59.760 or something, the first thing the government can think of 0:27:59.800 --> 0:28:02.920 the ing to impose it acts on what'sapp, which is 0:28:02.960 --> 0:28:06.240 obviously free service that people use because actual phone services 0:28:06.280 --> 0:28:09.960 are extremely expensive in Lebanon. That was kind of you know, 0:28:10.040 --> 0:28:12.680 as everyone has been saying that, you know, that whole 0:28:12.760 --> 0:28:15.439 sort of book becomes back then, and then you had 0:28:15.520 --> 0:28:19.840 protests on that like that Thursday evening. So that's basically 0:28:19.880 --> 0:28:24.400 a week now. And in that protest, you had lots 0:28:24.520 --> 0:28:27.240 of gold blogs, you had basically some of the usual 0:28:27.320 --> 0:28:31.360 protests that we have been seeing before. And during that protest, 0:28:31.440 --> 0:28:35.399