1 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: Hey everybody, I'm Robert Evans. This is not really an 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: episode of Behind the Bastards. I just wanted to make 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:09,879 Speaker 1: sure people had access to the full audio of all 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: of the interviews I conducted for the World is Burning 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: episode that ran earlier this week. So this episode is 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 1: just the unedited audio of all of those interviews. UM. 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: There will be a normal episode coming on Thursday as well. UM. 8 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: So to start off, we have the unedited audio of 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: my interview with those two Chilean activists. Uh, and I'm 10 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: gonna play that right now. Yeah. So, UM, would you 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: guys give or you Stephanie, if you'd like give an 12 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: overview in your own words of Whitey's protests started obviously 13 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: like the kind of foreign headline is uh bus or 14 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 1: a public transit? You know, fair increase leads to protests. 15 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: My understanding is that's just sort of kind of the 16 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: spark that lit a bunch of tinder on fire. Yeah, 17 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: but I'm interested in Yeah, what what you blame it on? Yeah? 18 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: We the last year we are participating in different products 19 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: for these a different think about um problems that we 20 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: have almost the almost started with the Pinal chest, with 21 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: the queue, start about the common with the pension plan 22 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: system and in the education that is really high goals 23 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: and uh, the health care problem and really expensive transportation 24 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: and hum and the commomale commale commer Yeah, the minimum 25 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: wages very low. So yeah, it's like you said, um 26 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: where what initially started this protest was a group a 27 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:11,239 Speaker 1: bunch of students who were evading UH the metro so 28 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: to protest the rise in the fair which is the 29 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: second or third time they've raised the metro uh in 30 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: the last three years. Um. And so it's the most 31 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 1: expensive metro in South America. And and even though for 32 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: someone from the United States it might seem it's still 33 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: very cheap or how are they only protesting over ten 34 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: more cents or whatever? But um, in Chile, if you 35 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: make the minimum wage, you could be spending almost of 36 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: your wage on the metro. It is very expensive here. 37 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: And UH. So what happened is a lot of students 38 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 1: were getting together as like a big group, and so 39 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: there would be hundreds of them and they would all 40 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: rush into the metro together and jump over the turnstiles 41 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: and so the uh that's how it all started. And 42 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: then the police were very heavy handed in their reaction 43 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: and got very violot and then it got kind of 44 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: worse from there, and so the protest exploded into more 45 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: of a general protest because Um, there's been a lot 46 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: of problems in Chile and there's a lot of um 47 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,839 Speaker 1: inequality and a lot of things that have never been 48 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: fixed since the since the dictatorship, so they're still using 49 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:41,119 Speaker 1: the same constitution that was written by Pino j and um. Yeah, 50 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: and there's lots of other things, Yeah, the corruption of Pinera, 51 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: the current president, and then a lot of protests over 52 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: the last couple of years about the pension plans, the 53 00:03:52,680 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: a FP and so of company, UM, selling land of 54 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: for hydro electric companies too only for business. And it's 55 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: really interesting because in Chilen almost uh ten family are 56 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: they have control uh for of the they are they 57 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: they are they have control with the core control rica. Yeah. 58 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: So it's it's similar to the United States, where there's 59 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: you know, a couple of hundred billionaires that are kind 60 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: of controlling every day, but in Jilian it's literally ten 61 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: families and these ten families are very very rich and 62 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: have a lot of control in the country. UM. But 63 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: but yeah, so it's it's about a lot of things. UM, 64 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: the protest now and uh would you you're walking in 65 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: this no? Please continue? Please continue? Now in this Um 66 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: you know this uh Perio Perio of the Pineria that 67 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: is the president. Is it the second um Perio second 68 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: term term? Yeah, they has So I think all the 69 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: Chilean think that the cops in Um in the terms 70 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: of the Pinera, they are more aggressive this year in 71 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:43,679 Speaker 1: all the term. So there's also, yeah, a big issue 72 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: with like the militariation, militarization of the of the police. Yeah, 73 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,679 Speaker 1: so the police are really heavy, and like she was saying, 74 00:05:53,040 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: especially with under under Piera, the police respond to often 75 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: peaceful protests with with dear guys and um and violence. 76 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: And now of course there's been declared the state of 77 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: emergencies and now you have the military in tanks in 78 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: the streets too. And why you said that the police 79 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: have gotten more aggressive and more violent this year, Why 80 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: would you do you have do is there a reason 81 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: behind that? Do you think like, is there some sort 82 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 1: of cause to that that you can see? No, it's 83 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: not any reason. It's only a strategy of the government. 84 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: But it is a bad idea. And in Um a 85 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: couple of months ago we saw some car of the cuffs, 86 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: uh driving in the in the passel really traditionally the 87 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: center of the city and uh tear gas. Oh yeah, yeah. 88 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: A couple of months ago there was some crazy protests 89 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: and the police were We're driving through like plazid there 90 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: almost like the downtown, like the center of the historic 91 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: center of town and and and throwing tear guys at 92 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: people who aren't even protesting. And um, but to answer 93 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: your question, I think that it just has to do 94 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: with the government, because, um, a couple of years ago 95 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: the president was Bachelte, who is more center left, And 96 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: so I think the police now under Vinera, understand that 97 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: they kind of have carte blanche to do whatever they 98 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:35,679 Speaker 1: want and that they won't be reprimanded for um violence 99 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: against protesters. And when this when this current wave of 100 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: like heavy street actions broke out, were y'all there for 101 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: sort of the beginning of that. Were you there and 102 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,679 Speaker 1: sort of the first day that this like really kicked 103 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: off into um, you know, a citywide sort of thing 104 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: rather than just kind of a fair protest. Yeah, definitely, 105 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: so we UM we live about step six or seven 106 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: blocks from the Plaza Talia, which is the Metro Baca Vado, 107 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: which is like the center of downtown, and it's the 108 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: historic place where protests always start and and so we're 109 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,559 Speaker 1: kind of in the thick of it. And then also 110 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: we are right by this intersection where when the protest 111 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: really got serious two nights ago, Um, the there were 112 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: five buses that were burned right at our intersection. So, um, yeah, 113 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: it's kind of right outside our door. And uh, what 114 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 1: do you one of the Obviously, I think, probably internationally, 115 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 1: the most famous image from these protests so far is 116 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: the headquarters of that electric company um being burned down. Um. 117 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,719 Speaker 1: And it's usually most of the sources I've seen have 118 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: ascribed it to the protesters, but I have seen a 119 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: lot of people saying that, um, it couldn't have been 120 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: protesters because the fire started on the floor that only 121 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,719 Speaker 1: a limited number of people have access to. Obviously, I 122 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: don't think anyone can prove to a point of certainty 123 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: one way or the other what happened. Yet, Um, do 124 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: they all have sort of a take on that, an 125 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 1: opinion on that what you think is most likely what 126 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 1: most people seem to believe. Yeah, it's it's weird with 127 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: the busses the same us. It's crazy to believe because uh, 128 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: with with the problem with the buses, m we saw 129 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: a couple of videos and one of these busses was 130 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 1: sculpted for the Cups and really weird situations and almost 131 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: the bus they put in the place for the people 132 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: can learn in for angry and for the problem. So 133 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: this is not the first time that the Cups makes 134 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: stuff crazy like that. So you can think about and 135 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: can using your imagination to to think that it's real, 136 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: it's it's fake. Is yeah, like you know, we're not 137 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 1: typically uh like conspiracy theorist people, but as far as 138 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: like what a lot of people have been talking about 139 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: is with both the n L Electric Company UM, with 140 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 1: the fire that happened on their their staircase right there 141 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: fire escape UM, and there was a number of suspicious 142 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: things about it. You know, it's started on the eleventh floor, 143 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: so it's like, how could a protester do that? And 144 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, UM, And of course it only burned 145 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: that the fire escape and it didn't touch anything about 146 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: the main building and there's so there's a lot of 147 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: suspicion here UM of that. And then uh, the idea 148 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: that possibly it was the police, so the government who 149 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: started that as in a way to justify um, bringing 150 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: in the military and all of that and starting the curfew. 151 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: And what's that thing is very similar is uh these 152 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: five buses that were burned outside of our apartment. UM. 153 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 1: It was very strange because yes, there's there's almost never 154 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: five buses all right next to each other on the 155 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: street in the corner and UM. And then there's also 156 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: been videos that have been passed around what'sapp and UM 157 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: social media where you see that these busses were like discontinued, 158 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: so they were already like in bad situation, their bad shape. 159 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: And then there's a video that's been passed around of 160 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: the police like escorting one of these busses, like very slowly, 161 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: almost like they're escorting it here so they can burn 162 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: it and again use it as justification, um to ratchet 163 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: up the police response. So it's hard to say, and 164 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: you know, you don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, 165 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: but certainly there's uh, there there's suspicious things happening in 166 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: that regarded and on the street here. Almost every chile 167 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: and that we've talked to has has said that they 168 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: pretty much believe that it was the police that that 169 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: we're doing that. And in terms of what you've seen 170 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: in person from the police response to all this, how 171 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: would you how would you describe how you've watched the police, 172 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,319 Speaker 1: uh deal with the protests so far? Like what have 173 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: you seen? Um? Just a lot of tear gas, a 174 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: lot of um the water cannons, mostly tear gas. Uh. 175 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: Just in in our experience, we've been kind of playing 176 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: it safe. We weren't getting really too too far into 177 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: the extreme protest. UM. We kept trying to go to 178 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,959 Speaker 1: the center to Plaza Talia, but we kept getting pushed 179 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: back by tear guys us every time. UM. So. And 180 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 1: we've seen videos of extreme violence, the police beating people 181 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: and it's even hitting them with their cars, extreme stuff 182 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 1: and shooting them. Yeah, and there's been a lot of 183 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: videos we've seen on social media of the police shooting 184 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 1: innocent protesters not doing anything. But as far as what 185 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 1: we saw with our our own eyes, um, mostly just 186 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: a lot of tear gas. But sometimes it would be 187 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 1: just like peaceful protesters and the police would drive by 188 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: and literally throw a tear gas out the window a 189 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: canister and then drive away. So it's also it's also 190 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: interesting some people have been commenting that it's a little different. 191 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: It seems different the police strategy this time in comparison 192 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:57,599 Speaker 1: to previous protests, whether they're not so much like cantling 193 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: the protesters or um, not so much getting into one. 194 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: I want physical like fistfights, um, which is a kid. 195 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 1: Some people are saying, you know that they watched the 196 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: protesters to get more extreme and burn more things and loot, 197 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: so that that justifies what they're doing. Yeah, and divide 198 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: the people because right now you have the more extreme 199 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: external people going and staff destroying the city, destroying the 200 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: pharmacy or the supermarket, and the people like us that 201 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: we take the the store when you shake with the 202 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: spoon all day and and when the police, um, you 203 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: can see the police and you need to run. So 204 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: uh So the government, I think they want to divide 205 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: the feeling of the people, the feeling of the protests 206 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: and the union of the people and um yeah, um, 207 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: so yeah, they're they're just trying to divide the people 208 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: so that the people who might sympathize with the protesters 209 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: will say, no, they've gone too far. They started to 210 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: be burning things or or taking down h street lights 211 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: or or looting, um supermarkets, um so. Yeah, and uh 212 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: as for this curfew, like how long can you see 213 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: it last? It's so extreme it doesn't seem like civil 214 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: life could continue if it goes on for too much longer. Yeah, well, 215 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: it just started last night. Last night it started in o'clock, 216 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: and then tonight they started at seven o'clock. So it 217 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: is very extreme and the like I was saying to 218 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: you uh in texts that I mean, if it if 219 00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: it were to go on for two more weeks, it 220 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: would be insane. I can't imagine that that would happen. 221 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: It would shut down the entire city. Um. But at 222 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: the same time, I don't like tonight's protests were crazier 223 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: than last night. I don't know. I don't see how 224 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: it stops because Panierra doesn't seem like everything from the 225 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: government has been just attacking the protesters, not taking any 226 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: responsibility for the action of the police. Yeah, and I 227 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: don't know if that he shanged the price of the 228 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: ticket boss, if we are going to record the peace 229 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: in the city, the people have has too much angry, 230 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: So I don't know if we are going to be 231 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: confor um like satisfied. Panierra has mentioned that he might 232 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: um he might freeze the price increase for the Metro, 233 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: but at this point it's like that's not going to 234 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: be enough to satisfy people, because, as we mentioned, the 235 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: protest is about things much worse than the metro fare. 236 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 1: So uh yeah, I mean, like, I don't think people 237 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: will stop protesting in less Panera resigns. The people are 238 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: out there shouting and calling for his resignment, resignation, and um, 239 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 1: you know, I don't obviously I don't think he wants 240 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: to do that either. And if you could send out 241 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: a message to people from around the world, Americans in 242 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: Europeans and everyone else not in Chile listening to this, 243 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: what is it that you want other people to know 244 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: about what's happening in your country? UM, I don't know. 245 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: When when we live in um in Colombia. Um, the 246 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:58,719 Speaker 1: most uh come on stuff that the people ask us. 247 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: It was why we leave Chile when Chile is so good, 248 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: so good country and all the system is so so good. 249 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: But the problem is that the problem is Chile has 250 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: a lot of problems for a long time, almost started 251 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: with the queue and we didn't have any solution for this. 252 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 1: So yeah, we are not a gay. We have problems. 253 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: We have a huge problems in the world. Uh, didn't 254 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: know any like that. So yeah, I guess I would 255 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: just say to people that, UM, I hope that people 256 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: are aware of what the Chileans are protesting for, and 257 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: that they understand that it's not about the match row fair. 258 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,479 Speaker 1: It is not only about paying ten cents more, um, 259 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: that it's about deeper, profound issues at that are at 260 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: the core of this country, um, like for example, still 261 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: having the constitution that was written by a dictator and 262 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: things like that. UM. And so yeah, like Stephanie was saying, uh, 263 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: kind of that people maybe need to understand that that 264 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: life is really not so easy in Chile, or or 265 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: maybe it is easy um for of the country, but 266 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: a lot of the people here are really struggling and uh. 267 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: And the minimum wage is really really low and uh 268 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of fundamental problems and and that's 269 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: why I think this is happening. So I would just 270 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: ask people to, um, unders stand a little bit about 271 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: the other issues with them, with the constitution and the 272 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: corruption and the pension plans and the minimum wage and 273 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: all of those. And and even though I don't condone 274 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 1: looting or violence or anything like that, UM, I would 275 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: ask that people have some some empathy for the people 276 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: who are out here protesting for a better life. And obviously, 277 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: I think that the most well known protests occurring in 278 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: the world right now are the ones in Hong Kong, 279 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: and I think the tactics there, I've seen them used 280 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: encrypted by protest movements in a number of other countries 281 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: that are going on right now. Have you seen that 282 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: have any impact on the tactics people are using on 283 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: the ground, UM. I know that I've seen a lot 284 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: of people sharing videos on social media about like the 285 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: Hong Kong protesters. UM, I like diffusing the tear gas canisters. 286 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: You know, they'll put a traffic pone on top of 287 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: it and then pour some some sort of chemical solution 288 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 1: in there and it it neutralizes it. So I know 289 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: that I haven't actually seen ay Chilean's do that, but 290 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people were talking about that. UM, 291 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: and well we have seen we were just being watched 292 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: by a drone. UM. But I don't think the facial 293 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: recognition here in Chile is as strong as Hong Kong. UM. 294 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think that part of it is. UM, 295 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 1: what's happening in Hong Kong and what's happy in Ecuador 296 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 1: right now is probably probably influencing the protesters here. Um. 297 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: And it seems just in the last week that protests 298 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: have started in a number of other countries. UM. Is 299 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: there any sort of feeling, at least from you, that 300 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: this is part of kind of a global You know, 301 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier in the interview that a lot of 302 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 1: some of the problems that are happening in Chile right 303 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: now are are similar to someone that we're dealing with 304 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: in the United States and others, just like concentration of wealth. 305 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: Do you have a sense that, like the mass uprising 306 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 1: is going on in a number of nations, are all 307 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: sort of part of something global that's bigger than just 308 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: the movements in the individual countries. UM, I don't know. 309 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: I would like to thank so, UM. I would like 310 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: to think that, you know, hopefully we are opening our 311 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: eyes to the failures of neoliberalism. But UM, I don't know. 312 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 1: I don't know, if I don't know if there's there 313 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: is a grander movement here sick I started. Still, yeah, 314 00:22:50,520 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: but I don't connect. Movement doesn't clar am super milio. 315 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: So another thing is that, Um, we have the left 316 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: maybe is growing stronger and um, using more forceful methods 317 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: because of the growth of the extreme rights in in 318 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 1: uh you know, all over the world, um, but especially 319 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: feeling that in South America, UH with in Brazil and 320 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: then also in Chile where you have, um, someone like 321 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: Caste who was a presidential candidate who is extremely to 322 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: the right, even more so than the current president. And 323 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: and so I think that the the the maybe in 324 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: some ways the left is responding to that and a 325 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: fear of the extreme authoritary and return to dictatorship, right 326 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: like you have um with Bosonaro in Brazil or you 327 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: know cast who who who knows could be president of 328 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: Chile one day. Well, thank you both very much for 329 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: your time. I really appreciate you talking with me today. 330 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: UM cool man. Yeah, that's all I wanted to get 331 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: into right now. UM. Obviously I'll be in touch with 332 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: you as I figure out kind of my schedule and 333 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: and please do keep me updated on on y'all and 334 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,479 Speaker 1: what you see happening outside your door. Okay, Yeah, definitely, 335 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: I'm happy to send you some photos if you make 336 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: it down here. Um, well, we'll show you around and 337 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 1: and yeah, send me a link to your podcast. Yeah, absolutely, 338 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: Thank you both so much for your time. Okay, cool man, 339 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: you have a good one, you too. By Okay, I'm back. 340 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: And that was the Chile interview, and next we have 341 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: my interview with Jody Ayoub over in Lebanon, So I'm 342 00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 1: going to play that now. Hey Joey, Hey, Hey, sorry, 343 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 1: is this a good time still? Yeah? I'm doing good. 344 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: How are you doing today? Yeah? Uh? Well, UM, I 345 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: guess we should just get into it. I'm I'm trying to. 346 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:19,719 Speaker 1: I'm doing as much reading as I can to try 347 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: to understand what's happening um in Beirut right now. Um. 348 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: And you know, obviously, UM, there's a lot to keep 349 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: track of. You know, I've been, I've been. I've been 350 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: covering Iraq and Syria for years, and I would say 351 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: I barely have a minimal level of competence in either 352 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: of those nations politics. So I'm pretty new to focusing 353 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: on what's happening in Beirut. Um. From what I've listened 354 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: to or been able to read, it seems like, um, 355 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: like the thing that the news is crediting for these 356 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: uprising or for the uprising might not be the right word, 357 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,239 Speaker 1: but for these protests is attacks on what's app um 358 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: when I've I've listened to or read things that other 359 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: people in the area have written. Um, it seems like 360 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: the wildfires that swept the country, and like the fact 361 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: that this helicopter fleet that was purchased by you know, 362 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: volunteers and then like allowed to kind of, um decay 363 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: into obsolescence. Like the fact that just in general the 364 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: government has been very ineffective at dealing with major problems 365 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: like those wildfires is a much bigger reason for the protests. Um. 366 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: But I'm interested in kind of your telling of like 367 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,239 Speaker 1: why this has all happened, um and sort of how 368 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: it's how it where you see things as being at 369 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, So it's it's a bit of both, 370 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: and obviously it's much more than that. At the same time, 371 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: the wildfires that was last Monday, so that's the fourteenth, 372 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: the night of lasted about eight hours and it was 373 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: what hectares. Yeah yeah, and those putting that we lost 374 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,479 Speaker 1: basically years worth off peas lost usually, so I think 375 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: there was something that clem against peas. That's horrible. That's 376 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: usually an average Yeah. Uh So that obviously pissed a 377 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: lot of people off because the government was utterly incapable 378 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: on reading whatever we used to deal with it. You 379 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: had pretty much we haven't had seven servants paid in 380 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: like twenty years. Of these all volunteer forces, and you 381 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: had you even had like this a defense forces from 382 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: the Palestinian camps that stepped up. They helped, and you 383 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: had basically volunteers just doing it themselves. There wasn't really 384 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: anything until two things happened that put them off. One 385 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: is Greece cyclists in Jordan basically sent some you know, 386 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,439 Speaker 1: helicopters and whatever. And the other thing is we got 387 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: lucky because it started gaining the day after. Yeah, so 388 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: that's pretty much why, like we the damage was more 389 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 1: or less limited, if you want. And so the fact 390 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: that after all of this, just like a day later 391 00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: or something, the first thing the government can think of 392 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 1: the ing to impose it acts on what'sapp, which is 393 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: obviously free service that people use because actual phone services 394 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: are extremely expensive in Lebanon. That was kind of you know, 395 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: as everyone has been saying that, you know, that whole 396 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,439 Speaker 1: sort of book becomes back then, and then you had 397 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: protests on that like that Thursday evening. So that's basically 398 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 1: a week now. And in that protest, you had lots 399 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: of gold blogs, you had basically some of the usual 400 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 1: protests that we have been seeing before. And during that protest, 401 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: one of this if you want symbols, that became this. Uh. 402 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: I don't know the point of unity, I guess is 403 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: there was a bodyguard of one one politician took out 404 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: his gun, started scaring people. People were not scared, they 405 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: were actually fighting back, and then he had this woman 406 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: who kicked him. Uh. And that became this sort of 407 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: meme and it became super popular and that kind of 408 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: galvanized everything. And then after that it became sort of 409 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: like a daily so more people come down, there's a 410 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: bit of a quassion than the next day. Even more 411 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: people come down a familiar story if you if you 412 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: see what I'm going with this and now how it's 413 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: the number eight and people are sitting the streets and 414 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: it's way more than justin my roots. And it was 415 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: you know, it was the biggest protests so far. We're 416 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: something like a quarter of the entire population that got 417 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: out into the streets. Am I am? I right on that. 418 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: It was like a million some odd people. Yeah, yeah, 419 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: that's the numbers I've seen. Is something like a million, 420 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: like one point two million to one point seven million, 421 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: and Lebanon is something like five million or six million 422 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: if you want to us as well. That's almost unbelievable 423 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: and percentage of the computation. Yeah, I can't imagine protests 424 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: of that scale ever occurring in the United States, Like 425 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: it would literally be one of the most significant happenings 426 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: in the history of our nation. Does does it feel 427 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: like that to you, Like this is one of the 428 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: most important things that's happened in the history of Lebanon. Yes, 429 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: for like for two reasons, of even three seasons, I 430 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: was involved, So I kind of give some backcount here. 431 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: I was involved in the protests those that follow the 432 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: waste crisis, as in as in like organizing its early weeks. 433 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: And one thing that happened then that it's not happening 434 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: now is that back then it was really central centralized 435 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: to Baywood, and you sort of had like a sort 436 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: of middle class um focused to it. If you want. 437 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: Now it is completely spontaneous, there's actually no organizers, and 438 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: it is babout is actually not even the most impressive one. 439 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: You have protests in Tripoli that have been going on 440 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: every single day. You have protests in nobody here in 441 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: the end of our valley in um zoom zoom must 442 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,479 Speaker 1: and um shrump and sue here in the South. I'm 443 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: trying forgetting many other places. You pretty much like have 444 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: over a hundred or two hundred hundred vote blocks every 445 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: single day right now. Uh. And it is utterly spontaneous. 446 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: It's not there's not there's no organization behind it. So 447 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: that's like really one of the main I kind of 448 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: mentioned both at the same time, the fact is not 449 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: centralized in Bayboot and the fact that it's it's spontaneous 450 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: and you have much more of an awareness if you 451 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: want that, like we tried. It kind of led to 452 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: more or less good stuff in twenty sixteen, but not enough. 453 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: Like the Baywood Madinity campaign during the municipal elections of 454 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: Baywood kind of hinted that it was things were going 455 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: in the right direction. But then you had the elections 456 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: last year and I think we had like one independent 457 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: or two independents that are actually got in parliament, and 458 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: that was about it. Because the whole system usually Lebanon 459 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: is univided between much eight coalitions and much vote in coalition. 460 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: They kind of came together last year to defeat a 461 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: civil society foret and they've been doing this time and 462 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: time again. The current government is a government that historically 463 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: has actually been of parties that were actually opposed to 464 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: one another. How it is a future movement and jam 465 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: one bestie is pre patriotic movement, not to mention, I'm uh, 466 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: you know, these are coalitions that kind of get formed 467 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: on and often it sence depending on the circumstances. And 468 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: what can you tell us about sort of the nature 469 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: of how the security forces have responded to this. I 470 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: can tell you that, like a lot of what I've 471 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: seen on Twitter has been you know, there's been some 472 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: pictures of like Lebanese soldiers, you know, with tears in 473 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: their eyes. Uh. And I guess sort of the thing 474 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: we're led to take out of that is that, Um, 475 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: even the Lebanese like police and military, very sympathetic to 476 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: the protests. Um. I I can't tell what's actually happening 477 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: on the ground. So I'm wondering what is your what 478 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: is your take on that? Oh that's not ideal? No, 479 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: And I mean, oh sorry you you cut out for 480 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: a second. Um, could you start your answer to that. 481 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: You heard the question right, Yes, sorry, Yeah, it depends 482 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: on So it depends on when and where. You did 483 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: have some instances where the Lebanese army was sort of uh, 484 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: his saint like it did it actually stood in between 485 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: corotesters and what we would call shabbihas or some elements 486 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: of the Sectain parties that are basically lad loose to 487 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: intimidate people, if not the worse. But in other cases, 488 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: like when we were do you guess last week, that 489 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: was living his army as well doing it. So it 490 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: really depends on when and where. There is definitely a 491 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: sentiment I think among Lebanese protesters. I don't share it personally, 492 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: but it's definitely the majority that, um, you basically need 493 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: to defend the army and try and get them on 494 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: your side in a sense at least individual and individual's capacity. 495 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: That hasn't happened. I don't think it will happen, but 496 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: that hasn't happened as if now, because I wanted to 497 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: read on this that the main difference between the army 498 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: in Lebanon and the army in other places in the 499 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: Middle East North Africa is that the army in Lebanon 500 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: is not the song before the song is forced in Lebanon. 501 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: That's Hesballa and every like. Basically, you know, everyone knows that, 502 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: and so it's not seen as uh oh, you know, 503 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,320 Speaker 1: we might have a military coup or anything like that, 504 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: because that's not really in the realm of of reality 505 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: if you want. So, most of the violence, again depending 506 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: on where we're talking, but quite a lot of the 507 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: most brutal anyway violence has come from the sectarian parties. 508 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: So yesterday there was lots of violence in nobody m 509 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: by Hesvola and I'm a gangs basically shapiha, and you 510 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 1: have something like training five or thirty people who are 511 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,320 Speaker 1: injured and had to go to the hospital. And in 512 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: the evening yesterday you had also again i'll just use 513 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,720 Speaker 1: the word shapiha of the three Patriotic movement in another 514 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,240 Speaker 1: area not too far from where I live, that attacked 515 00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: people as well. Actually I'm not sure how many people 516 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: were injured in that one. It wasn't as serious as 517 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: the one in the South, but it was fairly serious 518 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: as well. So you do have these tensions between a 519 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 1: a spontaneous um if you want sense sense of the 520 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: fact that we're getting at the point where we can 521 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: no longer tolerate thirty years of this. You know, two 522 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: days ago was the thirtieth anniversary commemoration whatever after Toteve Agreement, 523 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: the agreement that was signed in that ended Delibanese Civil War, 524 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: and they signed it in the city off and Saudi Arabia, 525 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: and that a system sort of codified sectarianism even more 526 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,879 Speaker 1: than it was before the war. It did a number 527 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: of things I won't get into now it's not that prelevant, 528 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: but what it did really is make it almost basically 529 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: impossible for anyone to identify for in any other way 530 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: other than with your sect. So the fact that I 531 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 1: am from a certain sect, it doesn't matter if I 532 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: am a believer or not, in atheists or not, None 533 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: of these things matter. What matters is that this, this 534 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: is your sect, and so you vote according to that, 535 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,919 Speaker 1: and you vote according to sect and according to where 536 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: your family is supposedly originally from. So for example, I 537 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: can vote in a Shefi, but I don't live in 538 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,760 Speaker 1: a Vie. I live in a different part of Lebanon. 539 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: And that's part of the reason why it's been so 540 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 1: difficult to really organize, because, for example, when there was 541 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,320 Speaker 1: a municipal elections in two thousands sixteen, uh, something like 542 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 1: a quarter of storry. Like, there's four times more people 543 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: who actually live in baby Woods than people who are 544 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 1: adjusted to to vote in bay Woods. So you have 545 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: many of my friends who live and I don't live 546 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: in Baywood, but they lived and they live in baby Woods, 547 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: and so they were helping organized people who are officially 548 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: registered in Baywood, including people who don't live there, to 549 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: vote there. So that's kind of just like a small 550 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: example of why it's been so difficult on all levels 551 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: to really organize for an alternative to the sectank system 552 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: that we have now. And it does seem like what 553 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 1: we're seeing. And again, you know, this is my my 554 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 1: perception as very much an outsider, that some of this 555 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: sectarianism is starting to fade um in the face of 556 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: kind of an understanding that more solidarity between groups is 557 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 1: necessary if you're going to actually deal with sort of 558 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: the problems that are making it so expensive to just 559 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: live a basic life and let it on. Is that 560 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:33,959 Speaker 1: is that what you feel you are seeing or would 561 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: you say I'm kind of off base there, No, No, 562 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: that's definitely what's happening that that's really been that is 563 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: the most explorant thing that's happening, and that's why it 564 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,879 Speaker 1: really feels different than before. Again, as someone like I've 565 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 1: been involved in protests since I think two thousand and 566 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: ten was my first one, and I went I went 567 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,760 Speaker 1: to the very defenced thousand eleven. There was some stuff 568 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 1: in between, and then two thousands fifteen was the big one, 569 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: and then you had, as I said to us in 570 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 1: sixteen thousand eighteen, but there's nothing. Really what's happening now 571 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:05,280 Speaker 1: Now you have a chance in triplely a Sooni majority 572 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: down the north saying like openly and people like in 573 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 1: the hundreds of thousands repeating that these chants like we 574 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: are with you nobody, which is a majority Shire area 575 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: until the death, and we are like we are I 576 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: don't know how to translate this, but we stand in 577 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: solidarity with nobody and with with you know, Bayhood and 578 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,759 Speaker 1: and su and all of these other areas. And there 579 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: is very much a sense that, um, it's it's something 580 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,320 Speaker 1: has been broken, like the in a good way, Like 581 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 1: there is a way of doing things that is extremely difficult. 582 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: That even if people stop contesting today, which I don't 583 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: think it's gonna happen anyway, that it is impossible for 584 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: the government to just continue and do things as they 585 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: have been doing so far. And one symbolic way that 586 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: that has been happening has been through extremely hood. If 587 00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: you want, insults that people have been throwing against uh politicians, 588 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: like notably that this is the song that you have 589 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: been repeating about see, which is basically fuck his mother. 590 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: That's basically what it means. Yeah, and that that has 591 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 1: that has been repeated on against pretty much all major politicians, 592 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 1: including although much more shindy with someone like Hassan against 593 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: someone like Hassan and some of the other leaders that 594 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: have had this sort of most sectarian events to their politics, 595 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,399 Speaker 1: even though they're all part of this extariance system. Now, 596 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: that's just the fact that like fuck your mother, you know, 597 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 1: essentially is a chance like that, you know you're talking. 598 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:46,839 Speaker 1: Lebanon is particularly Beirut is kind of a very very 599 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: much a city of the world, but Lebanon, and again, 600 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong here, much more traditional in 601 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: a lot of aspects, like the fact that people are 602 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: saying things like this um that are so explicit and 603 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,360 Speaker 1: so kind of obscene is a marker of how extreme 604 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,319 Speaker 1: the situation has gotten. That that that that would even 605 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: be seen as acceptable like that that seems very um 606 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 1: shocking to me. Um. Yeah, I mean these insults are 607 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 1: very common, but they are not common towards the politicians. 608 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: They're not common towards people people that you usually you 609 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 1: would orm is like you would give them on a 610 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: griffics like sir and Mr Your excellency, you know, that 611 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,440 Speaker 1: sort of thing. And the fact that you have people 612 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 1: explicitly when they're being interviewed like what if no one 613 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: if people who aren't going down to the seats what 614 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: they've been doing basically for the past week is just 615 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 1: opened some of the channels LBC for example, and you 616 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: have like the split sky into six different you know, 617 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,919 Speaker 1: areas of Lebanon, and people just being interviewed and giving 618 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: their opinion. And the sense that you get, whether you're 619 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,320 Speaker 1: on the seats or what you just at home, is 620 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: that there is something that is no longer taken for granted, 621 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: which is that these people have light time and time 622 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: and time and time again. And of course those in 623 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: civil society as you might call them, all the activists 624 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: or even the working classes that are the most affected, 625 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,479 Speaker 1: these are known like no, none of this is serious. Sorry, 626 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 1: none of this is new, but there is something about 627 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 1: how all of these things happen at the same time 628 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 1: that I don't want to say that people just walk 629 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 1: up to day because obviously that's not how things happen. 630 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 1: But it's just that as we say, like the the 631 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: wall of fear, if you want, has been broken. That's 632 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 1: a bad translation, but that's basically what it means, and that, um, 633 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,240 Speaker 1: we are getting to the point where even in Nobody, 634 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: which as I said, it's in the south very much 635 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,359 Speaker 1: an area where has Well and Emma have a lot 636 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 1: of influence, where you have yesterday it was Ammal and 637 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 1: has Well as shop attacking protesters, and then the next 638 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,360 Speaker 1: day people in Nobody, you go, there're still as we're speaking, 639 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 1: out on the streets and something like an hour ago, 640 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 1: two members of the municipal council often about a year 641 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 1: because of being forced by the people to his art essentially, 642 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: so you've been having these um pressures. And just before 643 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: we spoke, something like uh, just before speaking to us, 644 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 1: something two hours ago, the President Michionan also spoke and 645 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,839 Speaker 1: it was such a contrast to what's been happening. It's 646 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,600 Speaker 1: eight days after we started. He hasn't said a single 647 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 1: thing before now and the film, which it says, the 648 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,799 Speaker 1: live but it is very obviously edited. You have lots 649 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,440 Speaker 1: of different scenes that keep on changing. It's obviously in edit. 650 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: And he looks exhausted because he's fairly old, and what 651 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,319 Speaker 1: he said is utterly disconnected from reality, Like he could 652 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,800 Speaker 1: have said nothing and it would have made absolutely not different. 653 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 1: In fact, I think he just passed people more off 654 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 1: at this point. And let me let me think of 655 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 1: the right word to phrase this question. Um, do you 656 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,320 Speaker 1: like what what is it that you think would be 657 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,960 Speaker 1: most you know, most of the audience listening to this, 658 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: most of people listening this are going to be you know, Americans, Europeans. 659 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,440 Speaker 1: What what would you say if you could try to 660 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,640 Speaker 1: get just a couple of basic facts to them? What 661 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,560 Speaker 1: is the most important thing for them to understand about 662 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: what is happening in Lebanon right now? And is there 663 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,239 Speaker 1: any way for them to help and to express solidarity 664 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 1: with the Lebanese people who are currently protesting against their government. 665 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 1: Well for the latter is I guess a bit easier quickly, 666 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: like faster to answer, because there have been lots of 667 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,640 Speaker 1: dis protests, So I would guess befo enshoy your support 668 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 1: to these people there because you're not the Lebanese U 669 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,399 Speaker 1: pretty much everywhere. Um, So that's that's a second question. 670 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 1: The first question is if I need if I would 671 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,320 Speaker 1: summarize it, there was a civil war in between n 672 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: and ninety ninety. Uh. I am of the generation that 673 00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:00,080 Speaker 1: was born right after I was one, but UH to 674 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: use it symbolically, to use that example in bit symbolically, 675 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,719 Speaker 1: just before I was born, there was the Amnesty Law 676 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:10,320 Speaker 1: that was passed which gave immunity to most crimes committed 677 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: during the civil war. So most people who ended up 678 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,719 Speaker 1: in power after that were active participants in the civil war. 679 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 1: One of the most notorious member examples of that is 680 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,560 Speaker 1: never hipl here was the leader of the Ammal movement 681 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,920 Speaker 1: and has been leader of the Amal movements since the seventies. 682 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,759 Speaker 1: He has been speaking of parliament since nine so he's 683 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 1: been speaking of parliament for my entire existence basically. And 684 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:36,839 Speaker 1: this is someone like right now, there was a joke 685 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: before UH that you know, we're fighting against sectarianism, and 686 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 1: that means that the president, which currently has to be 687 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,360 Speaker 1: a Christian and the Prime Minister has to be a 688 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,000 Speaker 1: Sunni Muslim, and the steak of Parliament has to be 689 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,480 Speaker 1: a Chiao Muslim. The joke was that even if even 690 00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,120 Speaker 1: if we get into a secular government, the member of 691 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,920 Speaker 1: Steak of Arlims or it will still been a Selby 692 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,759 Speaker 1: because he's been across all of the governments that have 693 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,720 Speaker 1: passed so far in the past few still so decades. 694 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,880 Speaker 1: So Lebanon has a sectarian system, a confessional system. I 695 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:12,359 Speaker 1: guess it is the official world, but we just call 696 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: it which is sectarian, as if being sacked. And the 697 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,680 Speaker 1: way that works is that it basically makes it impossible 698 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,919 Speaker 1: to organize politically or even to vote outside of your set. 699 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,560 Speaker 1: There might be some like you might be in, like 700 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,000 Speaker 1: the sect being Christian, and you might vote for someone 701 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,760 Speaker 1: who's a different kind of Christian, but it is almost 702 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,799 Speaker 1: impossible to vote, for example, for it who is als 703 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,239 Speaker 1: to New Usia, depending on when we're talking about the 704 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,880 Speaker 1: municipal general elections and that sort of thing. So it 705 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:47,520 Speaker 1: has kind of um consolidated differences that sort of were 706 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,240 Speaker 1: thought out during the war. If you want, I'm grossly 707 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:56,759 Speaker 1: over simplifying the Civil War here. Obviously, it consolidated these 708 00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:01,160 Speaker 1: identities and it made them. Impart, it made it impossible 709 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,360 Speaker 1: for those of us who want to identify simply on 710 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,320 Speaker 1: a civil level, like as only as any citizens. It 711 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,880 Speaker 1: made it impossible for us to only do that. And 712 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,200 Speaker 1: this is what the past street has basically been challenging. 713 00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 1: And we've been seeing much more of a sentiment that 714 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,880 Speaker 1: we are doing this as one people basically, and that 715 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,200 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter whether you're Shias and you who's or Christian. 716 00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 1: There are certain things that affect obviously everyone in corruption, poverty, 717 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,880 Speaker 1: all of that, and we need to starve these and 718 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:34,960 Speaker 1: one of the things I'm interested in, so I'm covering 719 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: obviously we're in the middle of, um a number of 720 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:42,440 Speaker 1: different political uprisings around the world right now, a substantial 721 00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,839 Speaker 1: number um and I mean I know that in Catalonia 722 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,560 Speaker 1: and to a lesser extent in Chile, the Hong Kong 723 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 1: protests have served as as a sizeable sort of like 724 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:58,920 Speaker 1: inspirational factor in how people have approached resisting the government. 725 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 1: Have you seen any imp act in terms of like 726 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,279 Speaker 1: the tactics of those protests on much being done right 727 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:10,520 Speaker 1: now in Lebanon. I've seen some people talk about it, 728 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,000 Speaker 1: and it was mentioned on the seats I've been going 729 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:14,880 Speaker 1: to the baby with once and some people on Twitter 730 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,680 Speaker 1: sharing these tactics on that people in Hong Kong have 731 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,600 Speaker 1: been doing, but I wouldn't say that. Like one of 732 00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:25,960 Speaker 1: the issues that I think is common in Lebanon is 733 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:31,919 Speaker 1: how in the world, Oh could you could you say again? 734 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:37,120 Speaker 1: You cut off for a second? There? Yes, like there 735 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,160 Speaker 1: there there is a sense and that you sort of 736 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,680 Speaker 1: cut off from the world and that your links are 737 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:44,640 Speaker 1: the dire spoga links. So you might have people who 738 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,480 Speaker 1: know it, a bit about fans, a bit about Brazil 739 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:51,560 Speaker 1: or America or Canada or whatever. But that's the extent 740 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:53,879 Speaker 1: of how internationals things can get if you want. That's 741 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,480 Speaker 1: the limit of it. So you don't have as much 742 00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:01,080 Speaker 1: of an influence from the rest of the world outside 743 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,000 Speaker 1: of the Arab majority world. So you have had some 744 00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:08,800 Speaker 1: sentiments in UH from what I've seen, primarily in Tripolin 745 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,960 Speaker 1: growth and in they route towards for example, sending solidarity 746 00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,480 Speaker 1: to to the Neese protesters at the time or two 747 00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,759 Speaker 1: iraqis right now, you have this a bit, but primarily 748 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,000 Speaker 1: the overwhelming majority are simply focusing on what's in front 749 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,279 Speaker 1: of them essentially, and so because this system that we're 750 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:30,520 Speaker 1: talking about has really hampered Lebanon, in the Lebanese and 751 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,759 Speaker 1: people who live in Lebanon as well, because don't forget 752 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:36,600 Speaker 1: there are also Palestinians and Syrians and my domestic workers 753 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,319 Speaker 1: and so on. It has hampered everything to the point 754 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,040 Speaker 1: where it's just become impossible to look at anything else. 755 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,000 Speaker 1: And so my hope is that we solve this issue now. 756 00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:48,879 Speaker 1: And I don't even think we're going to fully solve 757 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,080 Speaker 1: it obviously, but we start putting cracks in the system, 758 00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,919 Speaker 1: and this will allow people in Lebanon. I think maybe 759 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,680 Speaker 1: that's the optimist in me to sort of regain a 760 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:03,640 Speaker 1: bit of confidence and that hopefully we can lead to 761 00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,799 Speaker 1: us learning more things in a more long term. It's 762 00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,520 Speaker 1: just that right now, the struggle has really been to 763 00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,920 Speaker 1: maintain the momentum every single day. That's stially been the 764 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,600 Speaker 1: main thing. And because Lebanon is so divided by region, 765 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,719 Speaker 1: you don't have a train or a metro or you know, 766 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,239 Speaker 1: something that really links the region. Everything is just by 767 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:26,920 Speaker 1: cod it's been very easy for the sectarian parties to 768 00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,080 Speaker 1: sort of luck off if you want an area from 769 00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:34,280 Speaker 1: the other, and that's sort of been what's happening but thankfully, 770 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,839 Speaker 1: you know, through the Internet, social media, but also through 771 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,759 Speaker 1: some of the coverage on the news, you've been able 772 00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,120 Speaker 1: we've been able to see what's been happening in other areas, 773 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,319 Speaker 1: and that has sort of sancthened individual contests as well. 774 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,080 Speaker 1: And that seems it's like, that's part of what seems 775 00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:54,120 Speaker 1: like we're kind of watching the worst nightmare of the 776 00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,880 Speaker 1: powers that be in Lebanon, Oica, which is these different 777 00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,839 Speaker 1: groups that have been split by sort of sect um 778 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,600 Speaker 1: realizing that they all have much more in common with 779 00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:07,400 Speaker 1: each other as fellow working class people, as people who 780 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:11,120 Speaker 1: have to you know, who can't count on um, you know, 781 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:15,120 Speaker 1: stealing millions of dollars from the larger chunk of the country, 782 00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,800 Speaker 1: like the normal folks in Lebanon. Um realizing they have 783 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:20,800 Speaker 1: much more in common with one another than with the 784 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,560 Speaker 1: people who run the country. Um. That that seems like 785 00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,120 Speaker 1: what's happening, and it seems like the worst case scenario 786 00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:30,880 Speaker 1: for the people in charge. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely what's happening. 787 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,400 Speaker 1: And actually go down some numbers to show what we're like, 788 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,640 Speaker 1: what we're talking about when we're talking about the levels 789 00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:41,200 Speaker 1: of inequality in Lebanon. This is as of and it's 790 00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:45,279 Speaker 1: got worse worse it's worth and since the top one 791 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,960 Speaker 1: per cent receives approximately quota of the total national income, 792 00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:51,920 Speaker 1: which means that the bottom fifty is left with ten 793 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,800 Speaker 1: percent of the national income the bottom makes and this 794 00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,520 Speaker 1: is in US. The study was done in Uros. Bottom 795 00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,800 Speaker 1: makes about three thousand euros per year. The middle forty percent, 796 00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:04,640 Speaker 1: and this speaks to how there isn't there isn't a 797 00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,640 Speaker 1: really middle class anymore. You sort of have a class 798 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:11,080 Speaker 1: that's in between. The middle forty percent makes eleven thousand 799 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,839 Speaker 1: euros a year, and then it goes up and up 800 00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,200 Speaker 1: and up. The top ten percent makes eighty one thousand, 801 00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:19,120 Speaker 1: the top one percent makes three hundred and thirty four thousand, 802 00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:21,600 Speaker 1: and then the top zero point one percent makes one 803 00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,120 Speaker 1: point five million, and the top zero point zero zero 804 00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:27,040 Speaker 1: one percent makes forty seven million. So you would have 805 00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,200 Speaker 1: in it in it in a city like Tripoli, which 806 00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,440 Speaker 1: is one of the poorest, is third poor, is the 807 00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:34,719 Speaker 1: biggest city basically the second biggest city in Lebanon. And 808 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,239 Speaker 1: as the pool is said that you have I think 809 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,239 Speaker 1: two or three or four I can I kind of 810 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,160 Speaker 1: keep losing kount of who's the billionaire and it was 811 00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,440 Speaker 1: a multi hundred millionaire billionaires in a Jimmy Harti and 812 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:48,280 Speaker 1: and start having the abot from there and there are billionaires. 813 00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:50,920 Speaker 1: This is just an example. This is sort of the 814 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,120 Speaker 1: sort of situation. And these are the numbers that we have. 815 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,520 Speaker 1: There are numbers that we don't have. We don't know, 816 00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,479 Speaker 1: for example, on the side of Bottler, how much money 817 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,280 Speaker 1: is coming for Iran. We don't know all of these numbers, 818 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,440 Speaker 1: and we don't we don't know how much of the 819 00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:09,680 Speaker 1: money that these Lebanese politicians, warlords, oligogus, whatever, have, how 820 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,760 Speaker 1: much of it is actually in Lebanon. You have people 821 00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:14,600 Speaker 1: that were mentioned in depend on my papers a few 822 00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,759 Speaker 1: years ago because they have you know, offshore accounts here 823 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,400 Speaker 1: and there. So in Swiss banks are always mentioned as 824 00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,920 Speaker 1: but in the contest because it's so common for us 825 00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,800 Speaker 1: to just assume and obviously it's accurate that they have 826 00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,200 Speaker 1: so much money in Swiss banks. This this is just 827 00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:33,919 Speaker 1: really like a a taste of of this situation that's here. 828 00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,800 Speaker 1: So it's not just that people suddenly are realizing that 829 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,120 Speaker 1: they're you know, old Lebanese and they have these things 830 00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,439 Speaker 1: in commons. It's not that in itself isn't really new. 831 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,520 Speaker 1: It's more that the way the only ways people have 832 00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:50,239 Speaker 1: been able to mobilize so far because of the combination 833 00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:54,040 Speaker 1: of Stanism as we mentioned, which is consolidated and basically 834 00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,600 Speaker 1: made into law, but also the issues of the lack 835 00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:59,840 Speaker 1: of public space, the issues of it's very difficult to 836 00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:02,440 Speaker 1: actually physically get from one area to the other because 837 00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:04,719 Speaker 1: of that, because of the lack of public transports. Sorry, 838 00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:10,040 Speaker 1: it's been just exceremely difficult to kind of shape the 839 00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:14,239 Speaker 1: system hard enough to allow independence at least as a 840 00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:19,040 Speaker 1: start to get in and show just by example. It's 841 00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:22,000 Speaker 1: been basically impossible to show by example that an alternative 842 00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,160 Speaker 1: is possible. So the hope here is at least that's 843 00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,439 Speaker 1: what That's the sentiment that I'm getting that most people 844 00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:31,520 Speaker 1: are hoping that this government follows what comes after. It 845 00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,080 Speaker 1: depends on who you talk to. Some someone is sort 846 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:38,040 Speaker 1: of some sorry, some people want this sort of technocratic 847 00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,200 Speaker 1: government that temporarily replaces it and then you have early elections. 848 00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,960 Speaker 1: Other people are just going for early elections directly, and 849 00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:48,399 Speaker 1: the they hope basically is that this time, just as 850 00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,319 Speaker 1: in last year we were we almost got a few 851 00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:54,160 Speaker 1: independence this time we will be able to do way 852 00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:58,160 Speaker 1: more because the people, the septaining warlords and oligogus that 853 00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:03,359 Speaker 1: united again as US, are extremely unpopular and this time, 854 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,880 Speaker 1: hopefully or you know, next, in this imaginary future election, 855 00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,600 Speaker 1: they will be less able to mobilize in the same 856 00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:14,440 Speaker 1: way that they did before. Well, Joey, thank you so 857 00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:17,680 Speaker 1: much for talking with me today. Is there anything else 858 00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,400 Speaker 1: you wanted to talk about or wanted to mention before 859 00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:24,560 Speaker 1: we we draw this to a close. I would just 860 00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,480 Speaker 1: ask people to basically keep an eye out on what's happening. 861 00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:29,919 Speaker 1: I don't know if it will get worse. I don't 862 00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,360 Speaker 1: I'm hoping not, but it's very difficult to predict what 863 00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,960 Speaker 1: some of these sectarian parties how they will react if 864 00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:38,799 Speaker 1: they feel that the only thing they have to say 865 00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,200 Speaker 1: in power is to basically show some folks because they 866 00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:46,120 Speaker 1: all have a diminishas and that's obviously the worst case scenario. 867 00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,640 Speaker 1: The best case scenario is that the pressure is so 868 00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:55,239 Speaker 1: overwhelming and so um uh decentralized. So I'll mention this 869 00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:57,800 Speaker 1: as a last thing. The fact that it's so decentralized 870 00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,279 Speaker 1: means that if, for example, as Well wants to crack 871 00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,440 Speaker 1: down on people in Nabatia. You will have people in 872 00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:08,120 Speaker 1: Tripoli telling those people in Nabati that we stand with you. 873 00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:10,760 Speaker 1: And there is this popular I think it went viral 874 00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:15,640 Speaker 1: video of in Tripoli the third Night or something, people chanting. 875 00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,920 Speaker 1: Before chanting Scott read the scottanism that people want to 876 00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:20,960 Speaker 1: the downfall of the regime, which obviously have been a 877 00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:25,160 Speaker 1: popular chant obviously from two thousand eleven. Now he adopted 878 00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:29,239 Speaker 1: much more strongly in Lebanon. Besides that, they said something 879 00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:32,640 Speaker 1: along the lines of if they shut down all the squares, 880 00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,520 Speaker 1: our square will remain open. The triple the squares, I 881 00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,560 Speaker 1: can't know, uh, And that's sort of the end, not 882 00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:40,160 Speaker 1: that I can, like they know that, I can end 883 00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:43,640 Speaker 1: on because it really shows that it would be very difficult, 884 00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:48,600 Speaker 1: not impossible, but very difficult for their ruling establishment, these 885 00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:52,239 Speaker 1: sectarian warlords or regogus to shut all of this down 886 00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,160 Speaker 1: that I think is very difficult for them to do. Well. 887 00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:58,600 Speaker 1: Thank you, Joey, Thank you for talking with me, and 888 00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,719 Speaker 1: and thank you for sharing um your impressions of what's 889 00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,160 Speaker 1: what's going on in your country. I really do appreciate it. 890 00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,680 Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks very time. Yeah, and last we have 891 00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:12,600 Speaker 1: my interview with Kabbad, so I asctually conducted this through WhatsApp. 892 00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:14,640 Speaker 1: I asked her some questions and she responded to me. 893 00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,440 Speaker 1: So the first question was what is your understanding of 894 00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:20,080 Speaker 1: the agreement reached by the SDF, which are the military 895 00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:24,120 Speaker 1: forces of Rojaba in the Syrian regime. The memorandum between 896 00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:26,360 Speaker 1: the STF and the city and regime is a military 897 00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:30,040 Speaker 1: and not relevant to the political status of self adinistration. Actually, 898 00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,280 Speaker 1: the withdrawal of the American did not give a choice 899 00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,920 Speaker 1: to the court. Then dealing with the asset and the region, 900 00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,480 Speaker 1: the raging forces are located in Kobani Men which I 901 00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,560 Speaker 1: necessity as well. It's a present and their headquarters and 902 00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,520 Speaker 1: has a gun. Commisially cities the officials of the self 903 00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:48,080 Speaker 1: constrationcies that it's a duty of the city and government 904 00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:51,600 Speaker 1: to protect Syria international border from the Turkish occupation. To 905 00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,040 Speaker 1: avoid having the same scenario of offering. I talked too 906 00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:57,839 Speaker 1: many people from commisially about that. They said they are 907 00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,480 Speaker 1: not happy to receive the regime after all these years 908 00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,400 Speaker 1: of self autonomous, but at the end region might be 909 00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:07,120 Speaker 1: better than Turkey, and others said they will live if 910 00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:10,919 Speaker 1: the regime take over this area, including me as many 911 00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,839 Speaker 1: of them participate in the two thousand and eleven demonstration 912 00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:17,840 Speaker 1: against asset. The second question I asked Abbat was how 913 00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,560 Speaker 1: do you believe closer integration of Rojaba to the Syrian 914 00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:24,480 Speaker 1: state will affect the progress of the women's revolution? Regime 915 00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,920 Speaker 1: is representing the patriarchy system. On the contrary, Rojaba is 916 00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:32,200 Speaker 1: representing the woman revolution. Woman of Rojaba built last eight 917 00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:35,440 Speaker 1: year specific system for the woman in all levels military, 918 00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:39,120 Speaker 1: economically and politically, and they made impact in the education 919 00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,400 Speaker 1: via teaching digitology, which is a woman's science on the 920 00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,680 Speaker 1: mentality of the new generations. In addition, the implementation of 921 00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,120 Speaker 1: the co presidency system and all the institutions starting from 922 00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:53,760 Speaker 1: coming to the highest official ranks allowed very effective participation 923 00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,560 Speaker 1: of a woman to lead this region beside them and 924 00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:00,840 Speaker 1: interview it the by theality co Presidency officers Siety Protection 925 00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:04,240 Speaker 1: Forces in Al Jazeera kanton about this subject and she said, 926 00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,840 Speaker 1: we know how to protect our servis now after a 927 00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,560 Speaker 1: years of experience, and we are not afraid of a 928 00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:13,800 Speaker 1: region coming back. It's obvious that the woman of Rojaba 929 00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:17,200 Speaker 1: will not lead their gainst easily, but there is a 930 00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,360 Speaker 1: great risk on the woman evolution in case the regime 931 00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,080 Speaker 1: take over Java, I do believe that the region will 932 00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:26,439 Speaker 1: first startet the woman specifically because this is what makes 933 00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,600 Speaker 1: Rojava unique on a global level. Now, the third question 934 00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:32,480 Speaker 1: I asked about was the ceasefire has written appears to 935 00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:34,560 Speaker 1: give Turkey all at once and leave nothing for the 936 00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:38,000 Speaker 1: STF for Rojava. Do you believe it will actually be followed, 937 00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,160 Speaker 1: even the agreement being implementing under the American monitoring. But 938 00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,720 Speaker 1: we saw the first the morning of the Truth had 939 00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:49,600 Speaker 1: been bridged by Turkey and their backed forces. Turkey remote 940 00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:53,400 Speaker 1: parts of the Wall and the seregoniest city and entered 941 00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,640 Speaker 1: their backed forces. Heavy clashes took place in the city 942 00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:00,200 Speaker 1: beside the Shilling as a result of the Turkish. Each 943 00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,600 Speaker 1: of the Truth's last three days there were twenty five 944 00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:07,520 Speaker 1: fighters being killed and seventeen injured. On the other side, 945 00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:11,160 Speaker 1: seventeen civilians as a result, lost their lives as a 946 00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,720 Speaker 1: result of the bombardment of the Turkish. Yesterday, there was 947 00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:18,400 Speaker 1: a stop of bombardment for some time, which allowed the 948 00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:22,600 Speaker 1: medical teams to evacuate a lot of injured and martyrs, 949 00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:27,400 Speaker 1: both fighters and civilians. This afternoon, the STF announced they 950 00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:32,200 Speaker 1: withdraw all the forces from Sareknya without details about the 951 00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:36,040 Speaker 1: agreement yet and the military analysis the CIS fire. It 952 00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:39,600 Speaker 1: doesn't mean surrounding by the SDF as there is no 953 00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:43,760 Speaker 1: clear details about the agreement, but that doesn't mean that 954 00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:47,600 Speaker 1: Turkey will stop the operation as soon it gets the 955 00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:51,080 Speaker 1: saves one area between Serekanya until a Viett in thirty 956 00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:54,440 Speaker 1: five kilometry depths, as we see on the ground that 957 00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:58,480 Speaker 1: Turkey wants to destroy the safe administration system and Rajava. 958 00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:02,520 Speaker 1: There is a report through report right now saying that 959 01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,760 Speaker 1: there is a discussion between Turkey and Russia about Kobani. 960 01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:09,400 Speaker 1: Even so, this is why it doesn't mean surrounding by 961 01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,320 Speaker 1: the STF and it doesn't mean that turk was gonna 962 01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,560 Speaker 1: stop even if they get that area. The fourth question 963 01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,360 Speaker 1: I asked about was how has the Autonomous region handled 964 01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:21,080 Speaker 1: the flow of so many refugees from villages under attack 965 01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:25,720 Speaker 1: by Turkey. October nine, when the Turkish bombardment start against 966 01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:29,440 Speaker 1: all Rojava cities, which is located on the Assyrian Turkish border. 967 01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:33,240 Speaker 1: That led to a massive waves of the IDPs home 968 01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:36,120 Speaker 1: mode from their cities to the villages in the south 969 01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:40,000 Speaker 1: to be saved from the Turkish shilling like Derek uncommish cities, 970 01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:44,040 Speaker 1: while others population moved to Hassaka City that is far 971 01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:48,600 Speaker 1: from the border, which is Seregania, until tamer until Abba 972 01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:51,840 Speaker 1: which is more close to the Hassaka city and those 973 01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:55,320 Speaker 1: three last cities are most affected by the Turkish attack. 974 01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,440 Speaker 1: The numbers of the I d P s it's it's 975 01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:01,440 Speaker 1: increasing and until now it's get our two hundred thousands 976 01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:06,040 Speaker 1: persons who have been displaced from their houses. Self administration 977 01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:10,600 Speaker 1: municipality of the HASSCA our receiving basically the IDPs and 978 01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:14,520 Speaker 1: they get some support from the U N Agencies, NGOs 979 01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:19,080 Speaker 1: and local associations as they are transferring the schools to 980 01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:22,040 Speaker 1: as shelters, but there is a lack of services. I 981 01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:25,400 Speaker 1: went to in the past days to these shelters and 982 01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:30,200 Speaker 1: there is uh. Every time, new numbers increasing very fast 983 01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,640 Speaker 1: and the humanitarian situation get worse and the response is 984 01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,280 Speaker 1: so slow comparing to their needs. In addition, it's it's 985 01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,000 Speaker 1: wars as a results of the Turkish attack on the 986 01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:44,520 Speaker 1: virtual centers. As the Turkish air strike they hit the 987 01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:48,400 Speaker 1: unlocked dam in Surrecani which is feeding the WATA to 988 01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:53,080 Speaker 1: a city of Ceregani and Hassca until timer and that's 989 01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:57,240 Speaker 1: result a cut of water three days from those cities. 990 01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,720 Speaker 1: And this situation of the population and the I d 991 01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:03,800 Speaker 1: P s, it's get wars as a result of that. Also, 992 01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:07,640 Speaker 1: I met many families and most of them basically from 993 01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:10,400 Speaker 1: turl Abbas Regani and even some of them have been 994 01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:13,760 Speaker 1: many times displacement as they were from a frin. I 995 01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:18,919 Speaker 1: think if the international response is limited, that will gonna 996 01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:23,200 Speaker 1: lead to a humanitarian crisis. Even I met the head 997 01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,960 Speaker 1: of the West Municipality of the Haseka, Mohammed Shammy, and 998 01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:30,360 Speaker 1: he was explaining to us how it's there is a 999 01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:33,360 Speaker 1: pressure on the city and there is no support. For example, 1000 01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,840 Speaker 1: he gave an example about the needs of the bread. 1001 01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,480 Speaker 1: He said, we use it to back thirty five tones 1002 01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:42,120 Speaker 1: of the floor daily for Hasseka. Only last days we 1003 01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:45,560 Speaker 1: are baking fifty tons and we cannot cover the needs 1004 01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:49,320 Speaker 1: of the population. So the situation every day, every hour 1005 01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:52,240 Speaker 1: gate wars and wars and there is a gap and 1006 01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:56,280 Speaker 1: and all the organizations have to respond to these needs. 1007 01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,160 Speaker 1: The fifth question I asked how about was how constant 1008 01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:01,240 Speaker 1: a presence is Turk which air power? Ever, a lot 1009 01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:04,160 Speaker 1: of stories of convoys being bombed. Has this changed the 1010 01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:07,720 Speaker 1: way you travel during the day. Actually, while now I 1011 01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,680 Speaker 1: am trying to answer this question of yours, there is 1012 01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:14,520 Speaker 1: a plane. We're not sure if it in COMMISSI S guy, 1013 01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:17,160 Speaker 1: We're not sure it's it's belonged to home because it's 1014 01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:20,880 Speaker 1: it's just confusing. It's so low and it's clear that 1015 01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:24,400 Speaker 1: it's not drawns. Maybe it's a helicopter. Actually I cannot 1016 01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:28,240 Speaker 1: identify which kind of planet is, but it's there because 1017 01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:31,040 Speaker 1: despite the Pentagon statement that they were going to have 1018 01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:34,920 Speaker 1: no flies on even before Java, even before the Turkey 1019 01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:38,680 Speaker 1: attacks started, but on October nine, So when the first 1020 01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:42,680 Speaker 1: Turkish start was jets in Surregani, I was there and 1021 01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:45,880 Speaker 1: I witness it and it was the first hit by 1022 01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:49,280 Speaker 1: the air striking. And since then all other kinds of 1023 01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:53,080 Speaker 1: the war plans have been used. But the most affected 1024 01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:57,480 Speaker 1: city of the air striking it was Seregania antel Abbott. 1025 01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:00,520 Speaker 1: Last night, the injuries who have been in created by 1026 01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:03,720 Speaker 1: the cities, I met some doctors who are treating them 1027 01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:06,280 Speaker 1: and they told me, like most of the wands is 1028 01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:09,760 Speaker 1: the results of the air striking and shilling. So it 1029 01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:13,920 Speaker 1: doesn't stop because in a different occasion, the STF called 1030 01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:17,200 Speaker 1: the Americans for no fly zone and they were they 1031 01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:20,000 Speaker 1: were going to fight handling the fighting on the ground, 1032 01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:24,440 Speaker 1: but there was no response until this moment. In addition 1033 01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:27,840 Speaker 1: to the Turkish drones and the air strike, that's really 1034 01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:31,440 Speaker 1: restricted movement inside the cities and on the way. Also 1035 01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:34,920 Speaker 1: one of the main reason now it's affecting on the movement, 1036 01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:38,680 Speaker 1: it's the EICI sleeper sales. Even in the first day 1037 01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:43,000 Speaker 1: there is because they became very active recently and there 1038 01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:45,680 Speaker 1: is a sources confirmed that they opened the way to 1039 01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:49,680 Speaker 1: the Turkish packed forces which laid that they controlled on 1040 01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:52,680 Speaker 1: the m for how A highway and as a result 1041 01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:57,200 Speaker 1: they executed the civilians, including the co presidents co presidents 1042 01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,720 Speaker 1: of the Syrian Future Party have in Halaf the Turk 1043 01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:04,240 Speaker 1: they didn't stop and there is a no flies on 1044 01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:07,680 Speaker 1: until this moment from any side for the Java. The 1045 01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,640 Speaker 1: sixth question I asked about was how does press access 1046 01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:13,280 Speaker 1: to the SDF now differ from how it was during 1047 01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:16,000 Speaker 1: the fighting against ISIS. Is it still possible for journalists 1048 01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:18,840 Speaker 1: to reach the front line. Actually, if we're gonna talk 1049 01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:22,480 Speaker 1: about the operation against ISIS and how it's have been 1050 01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:27,400 Speaker 1: globally covered by all the media because at that time 1051 01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:29,640 Speaker 1: there were the s d A forces. They provide a 1052 01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:33,160 Speaker 1: protection and the coordination for them on the ground and 1053 01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:37,240 Speaker 1: and they managed to cover all the operation without any 1054 01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:40,960 Speaker 1: you know, like the cases that they for the journalists 1055 01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:43,200 Speaker 1: to lose their life or anything like that. While in 1056 01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:47,800 Speaker 1: this operation via the Turkish attack there is last ten 1057 01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:52,320 Speaker 1: days for journalists lost their lives and other sevenths have 1058 01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:57,160 Speaker 1: been injured. Because now even they limited the access. It's 1059 01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:00,200 Speaker 1: limited for the media because of the security reason as 1060 01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:03,040 Speaker 1: there is a shelling air strike is the slipper sales 1061 01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:07,280 Speaker 1: and also there is a fear from the Syrian regime 1062 01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:11,360 Speaker 1: present also so there isn't no corporation in a way 1063 01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:14,800 Speaker 1: because of that, we can say like this operation can't 1064 01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:18,120 Speaker 1: be covered as it have been covered like the operation 1065 01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:22,720 Speaker 1: against ISIS. Unfortunately, and the seventh question I asked Hobart was, 1066 01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,520 Speaker 1: of course what can people outside Rojava do to help? 1067 01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:29,480 Speaker 1: I think the people of the outside can help Rojaba, 1068 01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:33,280 Speaker 1: and specifically all the feminist movements have to rise up 1069 01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:36,760 Speaker 1: for otherwise we as a woman all over the world 1070 01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:41,160 Speaker 1: might face the risk to lose the woman revolution. Any 1071 01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:46,800 Speaker 1: activity to support Rojaba, like demonstrations, donation by Code Turkish 1072 01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:50,800 Speaker 1: Goods and rise the awareness of the Western community about 1073 01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:54,960 Speaker 1: what is Rojaba facing currently. It's a genocide, it's an 1074 01:06:55,040 --> 01:07:00,320 Speaker 1: ethnic glancing, and it's a demographic demographic changing and everyone 1075 01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:03,680 Speaker 1: have to take the responsibilities in order to make some steps. 1076 01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:07,840 Speaker 1: And that's we're gonna help Rojaba for sure. Okay, And 1077 01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:10,240 Speaker 1: that's all the interview audio. Again, I'm Robert Evans. You 1078 01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:13,600 Speaker 1: can find sources for this episode behind the Bastards dot com. 1079 01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:15,560 Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at I right, okay, 1080 01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:17,439 Speaker 1: you can find us on Twitter at at Bastards pod. 1081 01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:20,760 Speaker 1: And that's that's it. That's the episode. Go, go do 1082 01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:21,560 Speaker 1: something useful.