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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to an episode of Legally Brunette. I

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Speaker 1: will be your host Emily Simpson with Shane and today

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Speaker 1: we are going to discuss the kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart.

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Speaker 1: There is a new documentary that just came out recently

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Speaker 1: on Netflix called Kidnapped Elizabeth Smart. It came out on

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Speaker 1: January twenty. First, if you have not had the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to watch it, I think it was great. I watched

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Speaker 1: it yesterday. It's one oh, okay, I believe it's two

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Speaker 1: hours or maybe an hour and a half. It's very good.

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Speaker 1: I believe there's been lots of documentaries about Elizabeth Smart

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Speaker 1: and made for TV movies and all the things. I

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Speaker 1: read an interview with her that said she's now in

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Speaker 1: a happy place in her life. She's married, she has

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Speaker 1: a husband, she has children, she has a very happy,

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Speaker 1: normal life, and I think she feels as if now

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Speaker 1: it is her chance, opportunity time to tell her story

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Speaker 1: in her own words and not through someone else. To

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Speaker 1: also show that even though she went through this horrible

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Speaker 1: traumatic kidnapping abduction for nine months, that there is a

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Speaker 1: happy ending at the end.

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Speaker 2: So, first of all, do you what timing too to

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Speaker 2: release it now with this whole aana, I know, I know,

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Speaker 2: because that is getting some serious press.

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Speaker 1: The correlation and just the abduction, and I mean it's

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Speaker 1: it's crazy. So in June of two thousand and two,

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Speaker 1: do you remember this case. It was two thousand and two,

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Speaker 1: fourteen year old Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her bedroom

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Speaker 1: in Salt Lake City, Utah, sparking one of the most

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Speaker 1: high profile missing person cases in US history. She was

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Speaker 1: held captive for nine months in remote locations while her

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Speaker 1: kidnappers disguised her identity in public. I will tell you

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Speaker 1: her kidnapper and his wife, they were very brazen people.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean the fact that this man kidnapped her in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the night with a knife and then

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Speaker 1: paraded her around in public.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, in plain sight and plain sight sight.

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Speaker 1: I mean going just walking around Salt Lake City, going

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Speaker 1: to libraries, just out and about. I mean, talk about

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Speaker 1: an egotistical, brazen joy.

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Speaker 2: Well, he probably felt like showing he was showing her off,

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Speaker 2: like well, he was kind of in the public like

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Speaker 2: to his own ego. He was kind of like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I have this girl, I've adducted her, and you can't

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Speaker 2: do anything about it.

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth endured severe psychological and physical abuse before being rescued

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Speaker 1: in March of two thousand and three. She was actually

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Speaker 1: abducted and held captive for nine months, which was aided

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Speaker 1: in part by her younger sister's recollection of the kidnappers'

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Speaker 1: voice and public tips that led police to Elizabeth and

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Speaker 1: her captors.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, do we say how old she was at

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Speaker 2: the time?

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Speaker 1: She was fourteen?

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Speaker 2: Okay, and I think her sister they shared a room together,

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Speaker 2: and that's how she recognized the voice. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Today, Elizabeth Smart is a victim's rights advocate and founder

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Speaker 1: of the Elizabeth Smart Foundation, working to support survivors and

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Speaker 1: improved child safety laws. So let's just go back. Let's

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Speaker 1: just talk about the timeline. This is June fifth of

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Speaker 1: two thousand and two. I actually I always like to

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Speaker 1: go back and think about two thousand and two. So

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Speaker 1: June of two thousand and two, what would you What

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Speaker 1: were you doing in June in two thousand and two?

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Speaker 1: Do you remember?

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Speaker 2: No, No, we have no idea.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I was just wondering four years ago. Well,

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Speaker 1: I started law school in August.

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Speaker 2: My birthdays in June, so I was probably thinking about that, right.

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Speaker 1: I just know. Two thousand and two is when I

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Speaker 1: started law school, so you know, I divide, like my

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Speaker 1: life is divided up. There's like chapters, chapters. There's college,

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Speaker 1: there's college, there's there's pre college, there's college, there's after college,

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Speaker 1: there's college. Then there is teaching because I taught high

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Speaker 1: school for four years, so there's that chapter. Then there's

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Speaker 1: law school, so there's that chapter. Then after law school

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Speaker 1: there's Shane. So then there's like that that's a long chapter,

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Speaker 1: that's like a seventeen Then there's like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: then there's housewives. So like there's all these chapters. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and two, we're here. We're at June fifth,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and two.

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Speaker 2: You're in the chapter now where you're fifty and old.

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Speaker 1: Yes, thank you for reminding me. I'm in the fifty

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Speaker 1: chapter fifty year old. I'm in the chapter fifty right now. Yes.

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Smart is taken from her bedroom that she shared

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Speaker 1: with her nine year old sister in Salt Lake City, Utah.

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Speaker 1: Her abductor cut a hole in the kitchen window screen

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Speaker 1: and entered through the window. He held a knife to

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth's throat and told her to get up quietly. If

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Speaker 1: she didn't follow his directions, he threatened to kill her

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Speaker 1: and her family. Elizabeth's sister Mary Catherine, witnessed part of

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Speaker 1: the abduction, but she was unable to stop it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she was nine years old at the time.

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Speaker 2: I could deal.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean they interview her in the documentary.

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Speaker 1: She said, you know, she closed her eyes, she was scared,

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Speaker 1: she was paralyzed. Absolutely, she heard the voice. She knew

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Speaker 1: her sister was gone. I do believe, according to her

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Speaker 1: that I think it even took a little while before

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Speaker 1: she got up the courage to get out of bed

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Speaker 1: and go tell her picsions. I think she laid there

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Speaker 1: for a while.

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Speaker 2: You know, I kind of always wonder, like we'll never

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Speaker 2: know the answer. But let's say she and I don't

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Speaker 2: blame her at all for being frozen and scared and

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Speaker 2: just you know, trying to not get involved. I get

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Speaker 2: that had she screamed, had she called for help and

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Speaker 2: screamed right like loudly, like obnoxiously, yeah, what would have happened?

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Speaker 2: Would he have ran scared? Would he have used the knife? See,

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Speaker 2: here's we'll never know.

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Speaker 1: We'll never know, But this is something I thought about

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Speaker 1: because I have a thirteen year old daughter. We I mean,

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Speaker 1: you and I together have a thirteen year old daughter.

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Speaker 1: So I'm thinking about my daughter, and I'm thinking if

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Speaker 1: someone climbed into her bedroom window. I told her because

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Speaker 1: I watched this documentary and then I took her school,

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Speaker 1: I told her, I said, you scream in the right yeah,

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Speaker 1: I said, do not if anything ever happens like that

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Speaker 1: where someone.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you have to kick, I scream and make it

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Speaker 2: so that person says, this ain't worse.

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Speaker 1: I told Annabelle. I had this conversation with her on

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Speaker 1: the way to school. I said, if you are ever,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the chances of this ever happening are slim.

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Speaker 1: But I said to her, if you are ever in

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Speaker 1: any kind of situation where someone is trying to take you,

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Speaker 1: and I don't care what they say. I don't care

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Speaker 1: if they say I'm gonna kill your parents or I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna I said, you fight, you fight, and you scream.

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Speaker 1: I saw, and you kick.

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Speaker 2: I watched about a month ago, a body cam footage

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Speaker 2: of a police officer that was reporting to like a

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Speaker 2: subway actually and because there was an abduction or an

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Speaker 2: attempted abduction, and there was security footage, and so I

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Speaker 2: saw the security footage. So he gets there and she's saying, yeah,

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Speaker 2: he tried to take me on. Then they show the

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Speaker 2: security footage and of like the parking lot, and this

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Speaker 2: guy was grabbing her from inside the subway and pulling

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Speaker 2: her out, and she was, you know, like twenty and

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Speaker 2: she was kicking and screaming and fighting him. And then

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Speaker 2: he was trying to push her in the car. So

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Speaker 2: he got her all the way and she was holding

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Speaker 2: out her arms and legs and refusing to get in obviously,

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Speaker 2: and he was trying and trying and trying, and she

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Speaker 2: was screaming like help me, you know, all this stuff,

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Speaker 2: and then he gave up and he got in the

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Speaker 2: car and he drove off. Yeah. No, then they found

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Speaker 2: him and this and that. But and she knew because

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Speaker 2: she said that her parents told her and she knew.

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Speaker 2: She goes, if I got in that car, he was

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Speaker 2: gonna kill me. I mean maybe he wouldn't have, but

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Speaker 2: she's that's not the time to worry about that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's time to just assume. So that was a And

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Speaker 2: I showed Annibal actually a little bit of that video.

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Speaker 2: I said, do you see how she's doing that. That's

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Speaker 2: why she's alive today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So in June sixth of two thousand and two,

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Speaker 1: this is the day after the abduction. Soon after the abduction,

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Speaker 1: Mary Catherine wakes her parents and tells them that Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: was taken. The family immediately reports her missing, and police

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Speaker 1: began widespread searches. Actually, the dad says in the documentary

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Speaker 1: that he thought when the daughter woke him up and

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Speaker 1: said that that Elizabeth had been taken, he thought that

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Speaker 1: she had a nightmare. And his first that was his

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Speaker 1: first inclination that, you know, the child like she had

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Speaker 1: a nightmare. You know, they're looking around the house and

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Speaker 1: then they go into the kitchen because they're they're looking

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Speaker 1: for Elizabeth. They thought maybe she's got out of bed

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Speaker 1: and moved somewhere and the younger daughter was having a

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Speaker 1: nightmare or a night terror or something. But they walk

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Speaker 1: into the kitchen and the mom sees that the windows

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Speaker 1: open and the screens cut, and she screams, And that's

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Speaker 1: when you go into it. There aren't even words livid, scared, terrified, petrified,

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Speaker 1: I mean my whole I would just have full body. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The family immediately reports her missing and police began a

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Speaker 1: widespread search. We learned later from Elizabeth's account that she

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Speaker 1: was taken into the mountains near the family home and

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Speaker 1: hidden there. So he takes her out of her I

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Speaker 1: believe they go back. I guess they leave. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if they leave through that window in the kitchen

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Speaker 1: that he cut her, if they go through her bedroom window,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I mean, I guess it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: He takes her from the home and they'd make a

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Speaker 1: three mile trek through the mountains. Yeah, yeah, walking. I

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Speaker 1: can't remember the exact name, but it was a very

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Speaker 1: affluent neighborhood. I think it was called Federal Heights or

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Speaker 1: something like that. Does that sound familiar. I mean you

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Speaker 1: lived in Utah.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I do every city in Utah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean it looks like a you lived

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Speaker 1: in Utah too, Yeah, you live really longer. But it

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Speaker 1: looked like it was a huge home. I mean they did.

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Speaker 1: They were a very affluent family. So, and you know

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Speaker 1: how Utah is. You'll have these beautiful neighborhoods with these

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Speaker 1: huge homes, but they back up to the mountains, so

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of homes where you can literally walk

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Speaker 1: out the back of your house and then there's a

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Speaker 1: mountain in your backyard. So the way I understand it

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Speaker 1: is he kidnapped her from the house and then made

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Speaker 1: a three mile trek walking up into the mountains into

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Speaker 1: a campsite where his wife was waiting for them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Federal Heights. Federal Heights in Salt Lake County. I

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Speaker 2: don't know where.

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Speaker 1: I guess it's like a very posh big homes, you know.

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Speaker 2: Is that where you want to move? Well, if we

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Speaker 2: move to Utah, just don't use any street vendors for

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Speaker 2: a hand.

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Speaker 1: The Smart Family appears on television this is throughout June

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Speaker 1: of two thousand and two and radio appealing for tips.

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Speaker 1: They are a large Mormon family living in a close

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Speaker 1: knit community that is very willing to help.

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Speaker 2: Posters flyers, I remember going to church and stuff, and

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Speaker 2: there'd be stuff on billboards. Wait, were you in Utah

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Speaker 2: in two two No, I was in California. All right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but I mean, you know, networking and stuff, so you

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Speaker 2: hear about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, posters flyers, public campaign pains flood Utah and surrounding states.

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Speaker 1: Please start investigating inside the home. This is where police,

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Speaker 1: you know what we were just talking about. The Nancy

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Speaker 1: Gothrie kidnapping is that they always look at the family,

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Speaker 1: so they suspected the dad. I mean they were looking

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Speaker 1: into him. He had to take a polygraph. Then the dad,

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Speaker 1: I believe his name is Ed, has brothers, so she

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Speaker 1: so Elizabeth Smart, has his uncles. They all come into

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Speaker 1: well because it helps her.

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Speaker 2: Probably initially comes off very targeted, comes in through a

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Speaker 2: certain window, goes all the way up into the house,

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Speaker 2: into a certain bedroom, picks the one child, and then

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Speaker 2: leaves right. Didn't take anything else as him, so it's

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Speaker 2: not like he broke in, grabbed a few things. She

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Speaker 2: was getting a drink in the kitchen he grabbed. I

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Speaker 2: mean it looked very like, okay, this person knows this house,

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Speaker 2: in this family.

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Speaker 1: So Elizabeth's dad, Ed Smart was looked at closely because

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Speaker 1: he was very emotional in interviews. But people noticed that

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Speaker 1: there were no real tears that came out when he

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Speaker 1: was crying. You know. I saw that in the documentary.

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Speaker 1: They showed so much news footage of him, and he

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Speaker 1: was always in the media. He was always.

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Speaker 2: Always The fathers though they're always i mean heartbroken and everything,

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Speaker 2: but you don't see them crying as much. And I

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Speaker 2: think and then you see the mother kind of more emotional.

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Speaker 2: But I think it's because it's like, like, okay, we've

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Speaker 2: we've lost kids before, right, like they're they're like we've

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Speaker 2: lost kids. We're like we're in the front yard and

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Speaker 2: they walked down the street right or or like you

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Speaker 2: lost sight of them for a moment.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know what you're talking about. You said

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Speaker 1: we've lost kids before, we lost sight of them, lost

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Speaker 1: sight of them. Okay, yes, I was like, what are

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Speaker 1: you talking about? Yes, lost sight of them.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's putting it, yes correctly. Okay, and you've done.

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Speaker 1: What or what are you what are you referring to?

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Speaker 2: Well, you get emotional and you worry.

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Speaker 1: I lost Luke one time. Is that what you're talking about?

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Speaker 2: But he was just like in the neighbor's front yards.

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Speaker 1: Somebody your parents took him for a joy ride around

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Speaker 1: the neighborhood and I didn't know.

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Speaker 2: We were going to take Keller and then Luke said

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Speaker 2: he didn't want to go. So Luke was inside the house.

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Speaker 2: Were like, okay, find Luca's stay here, And the next

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Speaker 2: thing we know, the front doors open and we can't

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Speaker 2: find Luke. I think he ran out and it turned

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Speaker 2: out he said no, he wanted to go, and he

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Speaker 2: ran back out with him and he went in their

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Speaker 2: car and they went up and down the street or

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Speaker 2: something in the car. Yes, I called nine one one, Okay,

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Speaker 2: can we get to my point of you having a

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Speaker 2: mental breakdown your emotional understandably, isn't that and me? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean I was scared, but I had to focus. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I had to look for him. I had to call

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Speaker 2: my parents, I had to figure out what's going on

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Speaker 2: this and that. So that's what I think happens in

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Speaker 2: the media is the guy is thinking, well, someone's got

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Speaker 2: to go up to this podium, someone's got to get

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Speaker 2: the word out, someone's got to talk. And obviously I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to put my wife through this because she's

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Speaker 2: clearly broken. Yeah, So it does not mean that he does.

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Speaker 1: Not get I think the point with Ed was that

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Speaker 1: he was very emotional in the interviews, and like emotional,

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Speaker 1: like looked like he was crying, like he was crying,

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Speaker 1: but there were no tears. And everybody, everybody's very analytical

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Speaker 1: of the way people their body language. They're real tears.

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Speaker 1: Do you believe them? Is hebelievable?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: At the end of the day. You can't really judge

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Speaker 1: someone by their reactions, as we talk about with the

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Speaker 1: Brian Coburger case and the girls in the house and

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Speaker 1: the two that survived, and we questioned why they waited

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Speaker 1: so long, why did they do this, why did they

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Speaker 1: do that? Why didn't they call the police until noon

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Speaker 1: the next day. But you can't ever know how you're

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Speaker 1: going to behave react until you're put in a situation

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Speaker 1: like that. So anyway, he was.

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Speaker 2: So my point is, I think men also react as

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Speaker 2: differently than women do, so they might not be so

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Speaker 2: visibly emotional with tears and whatnot.

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Speaker 1: So Ed had a brother named Tom Smart, who was

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Speaker 1: also looked at closely because he failed a polygraph test

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Speaker 1: and acted odd in interviews, claiming the kidnappers actually like

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth and whoever took her isn't a bad person at all.

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Speaker 2: That was weird.

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Speaker 1: It was so odd. So Ed has I believe two

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Speaker 1: or three brothers. So those are the uncles, and they

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Speaker 1: are in the interviews, they're in this documentary and it

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Speaker 1: shows news clips or footage of them, and his brother

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Speaker 1: Tom was just bizarre. He just he should never do interviews.

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Speaker 1: They should have never allowed him to speak because obviously

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Speaker 1: clearly we know he had nothing to do with it. Now,

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Speaker 1: but at the time he would say weird things like, well,

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Speaker 1: Ellis was just an angel and they took her because

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Speaker 1: they like her, and you know, it was just strange,

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Speaker 1: very odd.

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Speaker 2: In the current documentary they say that, yes, will they

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Speaker 2: show or is this footage from back then that they're

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Speaker 2: showing that.

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Speaker 1: Footage from back in two thousand and two.

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Speaker 2: Okay when she was missing. When she was missing, and

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Speaker 2: he's just thinking everything's fine, Well, she's probably just well liked.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he just weird, he made very.

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Speaker 2: Odd pissed at my brother, Yeah, and I think and then.

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Speaker 1: The problem is is that he acts so bizarre and

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Speaker 1: he fails a polygraph. Then the police are looking at

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Speaker 1: him kidding, and they're not looking where they should be

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Speaker 1: looking because we know that the uncles had nothing to.

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Speaker 2: Do with it.

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Speaker 1: He's just an odd he's just strange. He should have

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Speaker 1: never been allowed to.

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Speaker 2: Talk or that guy should be a law enforcement no,

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Speaker 2: because he would give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

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Speaker 1: So the family is eventually cleared, but they noticed public

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Speaker 1: support and search efforts took a huge dive as police

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Speaker 1: zeroed in on them. You know, and that's that's unfortunate

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Speaker 1: when when you are looking at the family and then

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Speaker 1: you start to analyze the dad, and then you give

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Speaker 1: the dad a polygraph, and then the uncle takes a

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Speaker 1: polygraph and he doesn't pass it, and then he does

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Speaker 1: weird interviews and says.

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Speaker 2: That the brother was suspicious of him too. It's like

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Speaker 2: you're saying it was bizarre, saying you're not passing the.

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Speaker 1: Test, and then the public that was rallying around the

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Speaker 1: family and helping with all these searches, then they're not

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Speaker 1: as invested in it because they're thinking that possibly the

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Speaker 1: uncle or the dad had something to do with it.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you if if one of our children, if

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Speaker 2: I was in a situation where I was a suspect,

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Speaker 2: I'd be doing everything I can to eliminate myself. Okay,

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Speaker 2: let's take a polygraph tests. Okay, I'll answer all your questions.

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Speaker 2: I'll do whatever you need to do so that way

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Speaker 2: you can eliminate me and move on to the next person.

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Speaker 1: So who is Richard recy? So this is their first

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Speaker 1: main suspect. Once they've cleared the family, they do come

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Speaker 1: up with he seems like a very viable suspect. Reese

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Speaker 1: had done home repair work at the Smart residence in

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Speaker 1: Salt Lake City. Because he was familiar with the house's layout,

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Speaker 1: investigators believe he could have known how to enter quietly.

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Speaker 1: Police Why did the police suspect him so? Richard Reesy

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Speaker 1: and Ed Smart had gotten into a fight about payment

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Speaker 1: shortly before Elizabeth's disappearance. Richard was familiar with their home,

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Speaker 1: and police theorized that the kidnapper likely understood the house well,

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Speaker 1: which made recy stand out obviously because they cut the

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Speaker 1: window into the kitchen, and I think because he slipped

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Speaker 1: in so easily into the house, took Elizabeth slipped out

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Speaker 1: so easily, it was clear that this was someone that

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Speaker 1: knew the layout of the home. And it was a

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Speaker 1: big house, so it's not like he was randomly searching

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Speaker 1: bedrooms trying to find, you know, Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: He knew exactly was someone that knew the house or

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Speaker 2: I was targeted.

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Speaker 1: So he also had a criminal history. So after Elizabeth disappeared,

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Speaker 1: police searched Reese's home and found stolen items from the

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Speaker 1: Smart family, including jewelry from Elizabeth's mother, Lois. Prior to

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Speaker 1: the kidnapping, Reese had a history of theft and fraud

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Speaker 1: as well, which made investigators more inclined to see him

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Speaker 1: as a possible offender. Now we know that the actual

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Speaker 1: abductor also worked on their home, and this guy, Richard Reesi,

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Speaker 1: also did some work on their home. It seems a

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Speaker 1: problem to me that they're hiring people. They're allowing people

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Speaker 1: to come into their home and do work or do

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Speaker 1: odd jobs that they shouldn't And I don't and I

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Speaker 1: mean when we hire someone, I mean, we've remodeled our

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Speaker 1: entire house almost. I mean, we don't do background checks

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Speaker 1: on people, but we also I mean, I guess Lois

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Speaker 1: or ed I think they're just being kind and they're

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Speaker 1: finding people that are down and out, and then.

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Speaker 2: Say probably thought they were extending some opportunities.

387
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Speaker 1: I think they were being charitable and saying, oh, they

388
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Speaker 1: were being charitable, come and do some work at our house,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we'll pay you and try to help

390
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Speaker 1: you get on your feet.

391
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Speaker 2: No good, de Goo's unpunished.

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Speaker 1: So what happened with Reesy? So he was arrested for

393
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Speaker 1: parole violations and theft, but not for kidnapping Elizabeth. However,

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Speaker 1: police interrogated him about Elizabeth and were certain that they

395
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Speaker 1: had caught the perpetrator. But when Mary Catherine this is

396
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Speaker 1: the younger sister, remember she was nine at the time,

397
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Speaker 1: saw Richard Reesi, she told investigators that that was not

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Speaker 1: the man who took her sister. Despite her being the

399
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 1: only eyewitness in this case, police dismissed her account, claiming

400
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Speaker 1: that she was most likely too groggy during the event

401
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 1: and that she couldn't remember correctly. However, she was pretty

402
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Speaker 1: clear that when she saw reci she saw the way

403
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,480
Speaker 1: he looks, she heard his voice that she said, like, I.

404
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:04,720
Speaker 2: Don't know, that seems pretty good to me.

405
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Speaker 1: That's not him, you know. They also kept her this

406
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,880
Speaker 1: is the younger sister, away from the media. They didn't

407
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,560
Speaker 1: allow her. They tried really hard not to talk about

408
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 1: the case in front of her, not to allow her

409
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Speaker 1: to watch the news, not to allow her to be

410
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Speaker 1: influenced by anything, because they wanted her and it makes sense.

411
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Speaker 2: They didn't want to. They didn't want to add confusion

412
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Speaker 2: to her or have her second guessing what she saw

413
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Speaker 2: or heard.

414
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Speaker 1: I think they didn't want to taint, taint the good

415
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Speaker 1: word her memory of that night. They wanted to keep it,

416
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Speaker 1: as you know, fresh and clear and untainted as possible.

417
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Speaker 1: So they tried to shield her from all the conversations the.

418
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Speaker 2: News, which they probably should do anyway, because it's probably

419
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,640
Speaker 2: just more you know, emotionally troubling to see all that stuff.

420
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Speaker 1: So police remain convinced that it's Richard Reesy is the kidnapper,

421
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 1: so he was held in custody. While in custody, in

422
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Speaker 1: August of two thousand and two, Richard recy died of

423
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 1: a brain hammer which caused by a stroke. Before he

424
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Speaker 1: could be fully cleared or charged. Police had then lost

425
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,719
Speaker 1: their only lead in the case. So that was their

426
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:11,680
Speaker 1: one lead. That was our one sess book. They cleared

427
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 1: the family. They were honing in on Richard Reesi. They

428
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 1: think this is the guy. You know, he stole things

429
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Speaker 1: from the house, he'd been in the house. He has

430
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Speaker 1: a history of criminality, you know, he's been in trouble

431
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 1: with the law before. It's probably him. He dies in custody,

432
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,800
Speaker 1: so now they have no leads. So there are some

433
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 1: months to pass. But then in October of two thousand

434
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,640
Speaker 1: and two, Mary Catherine suddenly it's actually she's reading a book.

435
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,199
Speaker 1: So she talks about how at night time she likes

436
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,360
Speaker 1: to read books before she goes to bed, and she's

437
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 1: actually looking through a book, the Guinness Book of World

438
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 1: Records at home, when all of a sudden, it hits

439
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: her the kidnapper's name, and she says, she tells her

440
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: parents that Emmanuel took Elizabeth.

441
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 2: How did she come up with me?

442
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,679
Speaker 1: I think just something something she saw, looked at How

443
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,439
Speaker 1: would she know her name to begin with?

444
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 2: You mean she put the voice the voice, Okay, So

445
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 2: she made a connection of who the voice was. Yeah,

446
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 2: So it was this guy that's been working in her

447
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 2: house named Emmanuel. Okay.

448
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 1: So she always knew that she recognized the voice.

449
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 2: She just put a place.

450
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 1: But something clicked that night when she's looking at this

451
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: Guinness Book of World Records. I don't know if it

452
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: was something she saw, just something clicked in her mind

453
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: and it hit her that that was the person. So

454
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 1: who is Emmanuel? So Per The New York Times, his

455
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: name is Brian David Mitchell, and he referred to himself

456
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: as a manual. He first met the Smart family in

457
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 1: two thousand and one while panhandling in downtown Salt Lake City.

458
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 1: Elizabeth's mom, Lois, spoke with him and handed him her

459
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 1: husband's business card so that he could get some work.

460
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 1: Soon afterward, Brian David Mitchell did yard work at the

461
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 1: Smart Time home and this is what we were just

462
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: talking about, how they're just they're just kindtunity, right. It

463
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 1: was roughly a year later, on June fifth, two thousand

464
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: and two, that Mitchell, this is Brian David Mitchell, returned

465
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 1: back to kidnap Elizabeth. After taking her from the home,

466
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 1: he led her through nearby woods to a remote campground

467
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: in the Utah Mountains where his wife her name's Wanda Barzi,

468
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 1: who also referred to herself as Hepsiba, was waiting. So

469
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 1: he referred to himself as a manual and his wife

470
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:40,399
Speaker 1: referred to herself as hepsibah Okay, they forced Elizabeth to

471
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: change into a religious robe and partake in a ceremony

472
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,199
Speaker 1: in which she was married to Mitchell. That night, Mitchell

473
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 1: sexually assaulted her for the first time. He claimed he

474
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 1: was a prophet of God and needed to obtain seven

475
00:23:54,960 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: wives for himself. Smart became his second wife, alongside Barzi,

476
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: who they're legally married, who willingly participated in Mitchell's warped reality.

477
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: They were members of the LDS Church, both of them

478
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: at one point.

479
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 2: And smart family too.

480
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, this and the Smart family, but also.

481
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: David Well clearly deviated. Slightly.

482
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: Months go by and a police sketch is made of

483
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 1: Brian David Mitchell. This is when So when the younger

484
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: daughter names Emmanuel, they don't have photos of the guy, right,

485
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 1: and he's living up in the mountains. So the younger

486
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 1: sibling works with the sketch artists and she describes or

487
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: maybe even it was the family. I don't know.

488
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 2: Well, if they're all trying to describe the same guy,

489
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 2: then maybe they reviewed him all away.

490
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: So a sketch artist comes up with a sketch of what.

491
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 2: He looks like and did he look similar?

492
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was good. I mean, it's pretty good sketch artists.

493
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,239
Speaker 1: But the police do not want to release it to

494
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 1: the public. So they're adamant that.

495
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 2: If they I'm guessing they think he's local and he's

496
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 2: still in the area, and they don't want him to

497
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 2: flee with.

498
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: Her, right, So I think they don't want to release

499
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,199
Speaker 1: it because they think it will be detrimental to the

500
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 1: case and detrimental to Elizabeth. And they think, yes, like

501
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: he could either kill her if she's still alive, or

502
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 1: he could flee with her. Or he could flee the area,

503
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 1: and so they don't want to scare him or tip

504
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 1: him off that they're onto him. However, the dad ed

505
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 1: goes to the media and they end up releasing the

506
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: sketch anyway.

507
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 2: Which you know, he has a father, so if he

508
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 2: felt that was fit, then I guess that's not entirely wrong.

509
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 1: So investigators refuse to release the sketch to the public.

510
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 1: They are very hesitant that Mitchell is the suspect and

511
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: don't believe they have enough evidence to follow through with

512
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: this lead. They don't want to release the sketch and

513
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,719
Speaker 1: fear that it could spook the suspect and force him

514
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 1: to flee.

515
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 2: Okay, that's right.

516
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, So during this time, Elizabeth is being transported out

517
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: of the state. So while in Utah, there was a

518
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,479
Speaker 1: close call where Elizabeth was almost identified at a public

519
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 1: library when a detective confronted her and her two captors.

520
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: This is what we were talking about earlier about how

521
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: brazen this guy is. Yeah, that's it's it's ego. He's

522
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: a prophet, he deserves seven wives. God talks to him,

523
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: you know, and he's so brazen that he actually goes

524
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 1: out in public with this girl, this fourteen year old

525
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 1: girl that he has kidnapped. So there is an instance

526
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: where they actually go to the public library in Salt

527
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: Lake City. She's dressed in these religious robes. He has

528
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: robes on. I believe his wife Wanda does too, but

529
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: they cover her face so you can't tell that it's Elizabeth.

530
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: And I think that they're at the library looking at

531
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: maps because I think they're deciding somewhere else to go.

532
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: There's a police detective at the library that sees them,

533
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: and I'm sure he thinks they look suspicious, so he

534
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: actually confronts them, talks to them, wants to see Elizabeth's face,

535
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: probably knows about the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping, and I don't

536
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: know if he's like trying, you know, putting that together.

537
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: And the guy, the kidnapper or the abductor says, you know,

538
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 1: she can't remove her face covering because it's against our religion.

539
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 1: And the only person that's ever allowed to see her

540
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: face is me. I'm her father, and then her future husband.

541
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: And the detective lets it go and walks away, So.

542
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 2: So profits lie, Yeah, that was his wife cording to him.

543
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 2: You know, I don't think the I don't know exactly.

544
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 2: But I mean, yeah, freedom or religion and all that

545
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 2: and being you know, separation of church and state and

546
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: having protection. But that doesn't apply all the time.

547
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 1: But what are you making that applicable to.

548
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 2: Well, like he's investigating a crime right now, I get it.

549
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: Maybe who was just going off a hunt. She didn't

550
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 2: really have you know, a valid probable cause. Well yeah,

551
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 2: or articable facts of suspicion or whatever it is, right,

552
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 2: less than probable causes all he needs to investigate. But

553
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 2: it not where you can't use religion all the time.

554
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 2: So you're against my religion to put handcuffs on I mean,

555
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Yeah, it doesn't work like that.

556
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 2: So I don't know, and I don't want to fault

557
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: this cop, but he probably could have broke that justifiably.

558
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: You're saying he was deterred because they use religion.

559
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, because then everyone's gonna wear a hat and be like, hey,

560
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 2: it's against my religion. Yeah, you know, you can't have

561
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 2: my fingerprints. Only my future or spouse is going to

562
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 2: see my fingerprints, yeah, in my DNA. So I wonder

563
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 2: if this cop had the ability legally with authority to

564
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 2: do something about it or if he didn't.

565
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: You know, here's the other question, because they do kind

566
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: of like in this documentary, like a recreation of the

567
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: three of them at the library, and like the detect

568
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: of walks up and in that moment. And I don't

569
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: want to be judgmental of Elizabeth Smart because I can't

570
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: imagine what she endured, but in that moment, if she spoke.

571
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 2: Up, yeah, that would have been the end of it.

572
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: That would have been the end of it. I want

573
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: her to do this she had to do with, say,

574
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: these guys kidnapped me, I'm Elizabeth.

575
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: Smart, and that cop would easily them immediately.

576
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: It would have been over. That just goes to show you,

577
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: I mean, she was fourteen, how much fear he instilled

578
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: in her. Because they're in a public library. I don't

579
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: think he I don't. I don't think he has a weaponary.

580
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: Well, they've been in many public places. This is the

581
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 2: only place that we just know of, because I mean,

582
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: detective has a story.

583
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: Just the three of them and a detective, a police

584
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: detective is standing right in front of her, questioning the

585
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: man who is her abductor, and she says nothing. And

586
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: it's sad because that would have been the perfect opportunity

587
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: for her just to.

588
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 2: Speak soon after? Is this from her induction? Do we know?

589
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: This is?

590
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 2: Obviously nine months? Is the total?

591
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: Nine months is the total? I don't know, Maybe this

592
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: is like six months in or something.

593
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's deep in. Okay, So the detective wasn't

594
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 2: in the interview or wasn't in this documentary, but it's known.

595
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 2: And obviously the how do they know that this detective

596
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: ran in the public library is because Elizabeth Smart later

597
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 2: said something.

598
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure because once so it's not like.

599
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: The detective made a report or anything.

600
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it just later came up that she

601
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: probably said.

602
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: You know, so we may not even know who the

603
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 2: detective is.

604
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.

605
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 2: The detective knows, but he may not have come.

606
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: Forward, right, so you know who knows?

607
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: It's probably from her.

608
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. So because of this close call. Shortly after this,

609
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: Mitchell and Barzi that's his wife, and Elizabeth decide to

610
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: go to a camp in San Diego because I'm sure

611
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: he got spooked because that was close, right. The detective

612
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: comes up to him and questions him, wants to see

613
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: her face.

614
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 2: I can't even be safe in a public library anymore,

615
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 2: we have to go out in the woods.

616
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: So also this is also February of two thousand and three.

617
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: This is when the Smart family takes it upon themselves

618
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: to release the sketch of Brian Mitchell to the public,

619
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: even though the police didn't want them to. Tips start

620
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: flooding in, and Brian's brother in law is one of them.

621
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: He claims Brian could have done this, and if he did,

622
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: it was likely that Elizabeth was still alive. So his

623
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: I believe it's his sister and brother in law reach

624
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: out to the police because they recognize the sketch and

625
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: say and they say he probably did that. They know

626
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: he's probably not right, and he's living up in the

627
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: mountains in a camp, and he's probably made it known

628
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: that he thinks he's a prophet and that he wants

629
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: to marry lots of young girls. So now they have

630
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: a name.

631
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 2: But no real like address or anything.

632
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: And now they have photographs because I believe his sister

633
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: provided photographs. I did photographs. So now they release it

634
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: the photographs, actual photographs, not just the police sketch.

635
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 2: But well, the police sketch is already out there, so

636
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 2: they figure, well, right, so the damage is already done

637
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 2: as far as they're concerned, if there was any yeah,

638
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: by releasing this sketch. And so now they release real photos.

639
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: Real photos. So now the public has real, actual photos

640
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: of the alleged abductor what he looks like. Well, he

641
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: is the abductor, he is the but at that time,

642
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: I love it, but so they know what he looks

643
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: like now. So soon after that, Elizabeth convinces her captors

644
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: to go back to Salt Lake City. So this was

645
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: actually very savvy and intelligent on her part. They were

646
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: in San Diego, living off the land, and then they

647
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: were talking. There were discussions of I guess he was saying, like,

648
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: we could go to New York City, we could go

649
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,719
Speaker 1: to Boston. He was naming all these cities that they

650
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: could go to. She becomes very frightened that she's going

651
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: to end up even further away from her family, and

652
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: so she tells him that God spoke to her and

653
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: that they're supposed to go back to Salt Lake City

654
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: and that she's supposed to follow him. She basically says

655
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: she recognizes that he has such an ego that if

656
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: she feeds into that, saying like I'm supposed to follow you.

657
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: God told me I'm supposed to follow you, and you're

658
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: supposed to go back to Salt Lake City. That's what

659
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: God wants you to do. Then you know he fell

660
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: for that, and so.

661
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 2: That was really well that worked for her because I've

662
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: read about this before where if you're being aw Let's

663
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 2: say a male is attacking a female and or attempting

664
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 2: to and then when the victim then tries to give

665
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 2: in and make it like okay, I'll just go along

666
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 2: with it so they're not less violent, and then maybe

667
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: I can reach over and grab the knife, or I

668
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 2: can run out the door or something right like get it.

669
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: You try to de escalate it. That could make it

670
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 2: worse because maybe this person is aggressive and they want

671
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: it to be violent, they want them to be submissive

672
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 2: or whatever it is. They don't want them to be

673
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 2: a consenting adult, so it could make it worse. But

674
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 2: in this case, it sounds like she was feeding his ego,

675
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 2: not like she was just trying to appease him, but

676
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 2: she was actually playing his game. So I just wanted

677
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 2: to say that I remember reading that once long ago,

678
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: where you could be it could be counterproductive. But in

679
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 2: this case, he wasn't violent in the sense of wanting

680
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: to overpower her. He was trying to make her his wife, right,

681
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: prophetic four.

682
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: Times a day.

683
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I didn't need to hear that.

684
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: Well, so I would say he's pretty no, but I

685
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: mean it's yeah anyway, I was just saying it worked

686
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 1: for her, that did, yeses so Elizabeth. So they end

687
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: up going back to the Salt Lake City area. So

688
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: then in March twelfth of two thousand and three, Elizabeth

689
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: is recognized in Sandy, Utah by two passerbys who noticed

690
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: her with Mitchell and Barzi. So that's again how brazen

691
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: he is that they're just they're literally just walking around

692
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: on a sidewalk in public. But she has the robes on,

693
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: and I believe she has a wig on, like a

694
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: grown wig sunglasses or something.

695
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean not now, it looks like a disguise. Look, yeah,

696
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 2: it's my religion to where old lady wigs and sunglasses.

697
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 2: So I can imagine, like I remember that now, Yeah.

698
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: That disguise did nothing but bring attention to her attention, right,

699
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: So Elizabeth is dressed in a horrible disguise consisting of

700
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 1: a cheap wig in sunglasses and she's terrified to real

701
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: reveal her identity to police. So I believe there's two

702
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: different couples that see them walking around and recognize how

703
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: and call the police. The police stop them, she will

704
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: not say who she is. Again, it's the same thing

705
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 1: as like in the library, where I mean, this could

706
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: be the end, Like you have a police officer standing

707
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,879
Speaker 1: in front of you asking you your name, I mean,

708
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: and he's there to protect you.

709
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: Well, nine months is a long time to go through

710
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 2: what she did.

711
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: So the fact that she still can't just divulge the information,

712
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: say help me, these two crazy people who abducted me,

713
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: Like she's still frozen, frozen and hesitant, doesn't want to

714
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: say anything. And I make this mistake sometimes with Annabel,

715
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: because Annabel can come off so confident and so mature,

716
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: and sometimes I forget that she isn't even thirteen yet,

717
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: and when you really think about it, that is so

718
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: naive and young, and their brain really is and developed

719
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: and they're very easily that's why.

720
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 2: Kill your parents.

721
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: And so even though there's two opportunities that are just

722
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: clearly like, all you have to do is say I'm

723
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,919
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Smart and you'll be saved and your family's fine

724
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: and you're fine. It doesn't even register, like she's still

725
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: terrified of these people. Also, she does claim in the documentary,

726
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: and this is actually very sad when I heard her

727
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 1: say this, And this has to do with the religion

728
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: aspect of LDS. So I want your opinion on this.

729
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 2: Are you listening, I am listening.

730
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: She says in the documentary that she grew up in

731
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: a very strict Mormon home and that she was told

732
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 1: from a very early age no sex before marriage. And

733
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 1: we know that's preached right.

734
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 2: It's yeah, sex.

735
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: Right is bad. So she's claimed. She says that she

736
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: did not understand the difference between rape and premarital sex,

737
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: like there was no distinction ever made for them.

738
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, is she's saying this in the documentary today okay?

739
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 2: So she's as an adult explaining yes, okay, And she.

740
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: Is saying that there was never a distinction made in

741
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: any kind of teachings between being raped and premarital sex.

742
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: So in her mind she thought, maybe my parents don't

743
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,760
Speaker 1: want me back or don't want me to return because

744
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: I had because she was raped, so she had premarital sex,

745
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: and in her mind, there was she was not able

746
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 1: to make the distinction. She just thought, I.

747
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 2: Wonder if how much of that had to do with

748
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 2: his words to her, if he said something like your

749
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 2: parents don't want you anymore, You're now mine, like he

750
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 2: started to plant these sess.

751
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: She never said that. She made it like it was strictly.

752
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 2: From that was her understanding.

753
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: Her understanding and teachings, and that's.

754
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 2: That's such unfortunate.

755
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: She was told repeatedly the premarital sex is bad. So

756
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 1: then she was very concerned that her parents would not

757
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: want her back because of that. She first told police

758
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: this is when the police show up in se Into, Utah,

759
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: when they're walking around. She first told police that her

760
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: name was Augustine, and she blurted out, I know who

761
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 1: you think I am. You guys think I'm that Elizabeth

762
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: Smart girl who ran away. When police put her in

763
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,720
Speaker 1: a separate car from Mitchell and Barzie, she began to cry.

764
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 1: Sergeant Victor Quezada said, and he's in the documentary. We

765
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: kept telling her, do this for your family, do this

766
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: for yourself, do the right thing. We know you're Elizabeth Smart,

767
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 1: so you had to try to convince her.

768
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 2: She hadn't switch gears for nine months. Yeah, she had

769
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: to have this facade, this poker face, you know, to

770
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 2: the point where she was you know, she said let's

771
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 2: go to Utah because God told me or whatever however

772
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 2: she phrased it. But there might have been many other

773
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 2: things she did to try to appease him and you know,

774
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,959
Speaker 2: de escalate the matter. And so, I mean for nine

775
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: months she was playing this part of his wife, right,

776
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 2: whether it be by force or just for her to

777
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 2: try to you know, in survival mode. And so then

778
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 2: all of a sudden cops appear, throw in a car,

779
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,800
Speaker 2: throwing a police station, and then she has to switch

780
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 2: gears and all of a sudden change. Yeah, that would

781
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 2: be tough.

782
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: So when she's in so she separated away, she's in

783
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 1: the cop car, he says to her, you know, do

784
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: the right thing. Do this for yourself, do this for

785
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: your family. We know you're Elizabeth smart. She finally responded

786
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: and said, thou sayest. And I had to rewind it

787
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: three times to try to understand what she was saying

788
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: because I didn't understand thou sayest. Yeah it is I

789
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: don't know.

790
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 2: See she's probably learning language from him too. He's probably

791
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 2: trying to speak all like sophisticated as a biblical type

792
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 2: language English.

793
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: So they said they just took that as a yes,

794
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: They're like, sounds like a guest to us. So they

795
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 1: drive her back to the police station. After police confirmed

796
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 1: her identity, Mitchell and Barzie were arrested. And then they

797
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: do they call her family. They say, we think we

798
00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: have Elizabeth. The dad talks about how you know, he

799
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: went into. It shows a video. I actually start crying.

800
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: It was so sad, the dada, so the dad reuniting

801
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 1: with her because she was just sitting on a couch,

802
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: you know, in a a you know, at a police station,

803
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: and it showed a video, you know, because they record

804
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: those rooms, and it showed him walking in. There was

805
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: a little hesitation. I think he said something to the

806
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: effect if he didn't recognize her, you know, he said,

807
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 1: are you Elizabeth? Like are you my daughter? You know,

808
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: and then they hug. But he said, I mean she

809
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: looked different. Her hair was in braids, and you know,

810
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:34,720
Speaker 1: I mean she looked different. She probably had a different

811
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: demeanor than nine months and so but it shows them

812
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: reconnect and hug, and I don't know, I just start

813
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: crying when I watch that because I thought, first of

814
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: all the chances of a family after their child has

815
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 1: been abducted of them getting her back later nine months

816
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: later is insane. I don't know what the statistics are.

817
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: I didn't look that up, but I would assume the

818
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: statistics of that happening are extremely extremely low. That probably

819
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: never happens. So to see them reunited was just, I

820
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 1: don't know, it was really it was emotional. Mitchell finally

821
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: went to trial in November of twenty ten, seven years later.

822
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: I read that it took forever for him to go

823
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 1: to trial because the judge would not deem him competent.

824
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: And then I think prosecutors were very frustrated because they

825
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: felt like he was just putting on this act of

826
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: being this prophet.

827
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 2: He's being difficult and being difficult. He remained in cussy

828
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 2: the whole time, right, I believe so.

829
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he just never went to trial because they could.

830
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: They just had a hard time. I guess they just

831
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: kept deeming him incompetent to stand trial because he was,

832
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: you know, and then the wife what's her name, Barzi, like,

833
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: she was always singing hymns, and you know, they were

834
00:41:55,080 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: just difficult and you know, preaching and talking about God,

835
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: and you know.

836
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 2: All the more reason to lock him up.

837
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 1: According to court documents, his attorneys claimed he was not

838
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: guilty by reason of insanity, but the court determined he

839
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 1: was mentally competent to face trial. Finally, he was mentally competent,

840
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: so seven years later he goes to trial. Elizabeth Bravely

841
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: agreed to testify against him. One month later, a jury

842
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: found Mitchell guilty of kidnapping and transporting a miner across

843
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: state lines for sexual activity, and he was later sentenced

844
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: to life in prison without the possibility of parole. What

845
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: about Barsi so Wanda Barzi. In November of two thousand

846
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: and nine, she reached a plea agreement admitting guilt to

847
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: charges including kidnapping and transporting a miner across state lines.

848
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,240
Speaker 1: As part of the agreement, she agreed to assist prosecutors

849
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 1: in their case against Brian David Mitchell, whom she had

850
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: filed divorce from in two thousand and four. In return,

851
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: Barzi received a fifteen year federal prison sentence. She was

852
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: released from prison back in stie September of twenty eighteen,

853
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: and I know when she came up for parole.

854
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 2: She was released in twenty eighteen.

855
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was released. She came up for parole, and

856
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: I believe that Elizabeth probably her family as well, spoke

857
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: out against her being released on full no kidding, and

858
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: said that they felt that she was still you know,

859
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 1: would be harmful. Yeah to society, she has to be

860
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: registered as a sex offender, right.

861
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, at least and so rich sure is a psycho.

862
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 1: And a sex offender. But then in May of twenty

863
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: twenty five.

864
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 2: So this was just recently seven years after she was released.

865
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was arrested. She went and lived in like

866
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: a I don't know what they're called, like a halfway house.

867
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 2: Or so they have the family come and the victim,

868
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 2: Elizabeth May herself, and she comes and they obviously advocate

869
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 2: for this Barzi staying in locked up. They let her

870
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 2: go anyway, So what could they have said, like, were

871
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 2: you going to just release her any probably? I mean

872
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 2: you have these people that they harmed and saying keep

873
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 2: her in jail, and they're like nah, I mean what,

874
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 2: so you were gonna let her go anyway? You're saying

875
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 2: what Barzie did and said overcame, like what you know,

876
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 2: overpowered what Elizabeth Smart and their family, her family said.

877
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 2: I mean whomever.

878
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 1: So then it may have twenty twenty.

879
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 2: So I should never be on a parole board. No,

880
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 2: you would just be like nope, Like nope, stay in

881
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 2: jail next.

882
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: In May of twenty twenty five, Barzie was arrested for

883
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: violating parole after reportedly entering public parks, which she was

884
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: prohibited from visiting due to her status as a registered

885
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: sex offender.

886
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 2: Oh that's why.

887
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, this reminds me of a different case.

888
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 1: We haven't talked about it.

889
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 2: But how is that where you thinking, Oh, you're living

890
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: where you can't go to a public park.

891
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: Well that's hard. And you know what else is hard?

892
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 2: I don't care you're when you're registered.

893
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: As a sex offender. Not only can you not go

894
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: to public parks because kids are there, but you can't

895
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: be within you know, you have to.

896
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 2: Know where you are, yeah all the time. Right, you

897
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 2: can't just go on a walk and like, you know, explore.

898
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: No, and you're not allowed to be I don't know

899
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: what it is, but you're not allowed to be so

900
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: many feet within a.

901
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 2: School, right, So it's like on hangover. Yeah, what's his name, Alan?

902
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: Alan?

903
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: Well he was like in front of the school. They

904
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,280
Speaker 2: were there to pick up the teacher. What character Bradley

905
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 2: Cooper's character. He was like he was slouching, and he's

906
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 2: like to be near a school.

907
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, because yeah, he's a registered sex That's why I know.

908
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 2: But yeah, because they can't imagine, like you're at a

909
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 2: work part lately, everyone's like, hey, let's go to lunch

910
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 2: today for work, and then you get in your car

911
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,720
Speaker 2: and everyone drives to the park to have a picnic. Like, okay, guys,

912
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 2: I can't be here, right, I have to go eat

913
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 2: across the street.

914
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: Well, and that's like, if you're a registered sex offender,

915
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: I don't even know how you end up having a

916
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: normal life or getting a job because where you have

917
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: to find a job where you're not within.

918
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 2: The day, you had to work at like an adult

919
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 2: store or something they'll hire you.

920
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: So Elizabeth, I'm smart. Where is she now? Twenty three

921
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: years after her abduction. So after returning home, Elizabeth resumed

922
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: her education and rolling in high school the following fall,

923
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: and later earning a degree from BYU. You know, I

924
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: wonder if, like, how do you go back to high school?

925
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: She doesn't really just talk about that or I mean,

926
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:19,839
Speaker 1: there wasn't really a discussion of that. But she goes

927
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: back home. You have to assimilate back into normal life.

928
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 2: I simon it back to normal life in a lot

929
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 2: of ways.

930
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, she has to reconnect with her family, her sister,

931
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: she has brothers.

932
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 2: Got her uncle that's the weird uncle.

933
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 1: But then she has to go to high school. And

934
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: you're Elizabeth Smart. You were abducted, and you know you

935
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: were gone for nine months and now you just now

936
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 1: you have to go to high school.

937
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 2: And well, I'm sure there was a transition of some sorts.

938
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 2: But she did a lot of things right then she

939
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 2: served a mission for the church, she went to France,

940
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 2: and then she got married in the temple and she

941
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 2: has kids. Now, Yeah, so I mean she she assimilated.

942
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not to say it wasn't without difficulty,

943
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 2: but she assimilated and she was doing all the right

944
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 2: things to be back into living a normal life and

945
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 2: being a normal you know, wife and mother and daughter.

946
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 1: So today Elizabeth Smart is a married mother of three.

947
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 1: She met her husband, Matthew Gilmore, in Paris, where she

948
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 1: was serving as a missionary for the Church of Jesus

949
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,280
Speaker 1: Christ of Latter day Saints. This is in two thousand

950
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 1: and nine. Gilmore, who was originally from Scotland, later said

951
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,760
Speaker 1: he was unaware of Smart's public story when they first

952
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,720
Speaker 1: crossed paths that worked out nicely.

953
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: Well, you know that was probably that probably was what

954
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:37,760
Speaker 2: allowed them to have a normal courtship and stuff right.

955
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:43,280
Speaker 1: Reflecting on their relationship, he told People magazine in twenty twelve,

956
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: the thing that attracted me the most to her at

957
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: the beginning and now is how confident she is, especially

958
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: considering everything that she has been through, he proposed. Later

959
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: that same year, Following their wedding, the couple settled in

960
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 1: Park City, Utah. What we were just in Park City,

961
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: I mean we could have I did not know she

962
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: resided there.

963
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think she wants you knocking her door.

964
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: I could have asked her to come on the podcast.

965
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think she's like I got Netflix knocking

966
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,720
Speaker 2: on my door, lady, I don't need legally.

967
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 1: Oh well, it's worth a shot. Following their wedding, the

968
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: couple settled in Park City, Utah, and have since welcomed

969
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 1: three children, daughters Chloe and Olivia, and son James. Speaking

970
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: to People after her son's birth, Smart said, my children

971
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 1: have brought so much happiness and joy. To me, they're

972
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 1: the very definition of love. Elizabeth has shared her story

973
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: in many documentaries published, and she's published her own books

974
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: and appeared in ted talks and podcasts. See she goes on

975
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: podcasts and I come.

976
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 2: On legal Brunere we go. I think you should reach

977
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 2: out to her. She created the or better yet the Uncle?

978
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: You want the uncle to come on? Yeah, you need

979
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: to watch his interview?

980
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 2: Can you rethink your answers now, sir?

981
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: She created the Elizabeth Smart Foundation, which seeks to bring hope, empowerment,

982
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: and change in the fight against sex violence.

983
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 2: So she leaned into it, she embraced it, and she

984
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 2: didn't let it break her. She got back on track.

985
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 2: She lived. She's living a full life, three kids, marriage, school, college, mission, everything,

986
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:21,320
Speaker 2: and then now be an advocate of many sorts missing persons.

987
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Yeah, And how do I go on a

988
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: mission to Paris?

989
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 2: You Paris? You were on a mission last week?

990
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:30,760
Speaker 1: Did you go to Paris?

991
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 2: You came back with a purse?

992
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: You served your mission?

993
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 2: But you know, I remember there was a long ago,

994
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 2: decade ago, lady escaped from a home where she was

995
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 2: trapped for a number of years by some abductor and

996
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 2: she escaped and called for help and someone called the

997
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 2: police and blah blah blah. She turned out, she was

998
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 2: chained up and all that stuff for I think ten

999
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 2: twelve years or something crazy, And I remember Elizabeth Smart

1000
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 2: reaching out to her, hearing that she had reached out

1001
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 2: to So I'm sure there's much more in that. But

1002
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 2: how awesome is that? So she's that's very relatable, right,

1003
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 2: Like instead of some police officer telling you, like you'll

1004
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 2: be fine, we're saved now, like whatever you want to hear,

1005
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 2: they think you want to hear. But she comes in

1006
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 2: and says can share her experience and can be an

1007
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 2: example that you can get back to living exactly. And

1008
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 2: that's awesome.

1009
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, any final thoughts?

1010
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 2: That wasn't That was my fun?

1011
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: I know, But do you have any other final.

1012
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:33,839
Speaker 2: Another final thoughts?

1013
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1014
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 2: No, but wait, what is.

1015
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 1: Your takeaway though? I would say, as a parent, I

1016
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: mean the fact that this is a lovely, nice Mormon

1017
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: family living in a very safe, very safe area of

1018
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 1: Salt Lake City where the church is abundant and most

1019
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: you know.

1020
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 2: People, The parents seem to be working and healthy, and

1021
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 2: the kids they have, you know, the very instagrammable family.

1022
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 1: They have children, and they live in a beautiful home

1023
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: and a beautiful neighborhood. It's scary to think that something

1024
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: like someone just comes in through a window.

1025
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 2: As simple as just They didn't need anything special, right.

1026
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 1: And that is concerning. I mean, do we.

1027
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 2: Have every night I go around and I lock all

1028
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 2: the doors and check everything.

1029
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: Oh wait, there's one more thing. Let me wait, one

1030
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 1: more thing that I forgot.

1031
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,280
Speaker 2: Let's talk about this. You're welcome.

1032
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: No, I want to say thank you, But there's one

1033
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:32,439
Speaker 1: more thing I want to say, because I just looked

1034
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: over and I saw my dog and it made me

1035
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 1: think of this.

1036
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 2: Oh the dog that's laying on I was back asleep. Yes,

1037
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 2: that dog that will do anything for a treat. Yes,

1038
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 2: and it's scared of vacuums and trash. Can no, wait,

1039
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 2: hold on, I'm sorry.

1040
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: I forgot to bring this up when we were talking

1041
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: about Elizabeth Smart. So, a couple of months into her abduction,

1042
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 1: her abductor tried to abduct her cousin. Oh really, yes,

1043
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 1: because his plan was to have seven wives, I believe.

1044
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: So he went to the house where the cousin lived.

1045
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: She was like eighteen or something. I believe verse seventeen eighteen.

1046
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: And he did the same thing where with Elizabeth Smart

1047
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:12,959
Speaker 1: he got into the house because he pushed a chair

1048
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: up against the wall and then climbed in and cut

1049
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: the window and then climbed in that way. So he

1050
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: tried to do the same thing with Elizabeth's cousin.

1051
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 2: I never knew this.

1052
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he went to the house, took the knife,

1053
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: pushed a chair up against the house, was trying to

1054
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:29,319
Speaker 1: climb in through the screen door.

1055
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 2: They had a dog, and the dog.

1056
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: Barked and scared him away, and it made me think,

1057
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: I know you like to make fun of my dogs,

1058
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: but I have three dogs, and I tell you, if

1059
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 1: somebody comes through a window, they are going.

1060
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 2: To Yeah, one will too, will run, but.

1061
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 1: They're going to make noise. They're going to make noise.

1062
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 1: If someone tries to come into this house, they're going

1063
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 1: to make noise. And that's why I do think it's

1064
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 1: very important that everyone should go and adopt a dog.

1065
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: If you do not have a dog, this is my

1066
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: public service message. Go adopt a dog at your local shelter,

1067
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 1: and if someone tries to come through your window.

1068
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 2: Don't train the dog so they forget Every time someone

1069
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 2: comes in the house. That's how our dog is.

1070
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 1: No, he I wish I could take I'm gonna take

1071
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: a picture of him right now.

1072
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, he looks, he looks he's not on duty right now. Yes,

1073
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:18,879
Speaker 2: for sure.

1074
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 1: He doesn't look very scary right now, but he can

1075
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 1: be when people come in the house. He is.

1076
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:28,359
Speaker 2: He looks dead right now. He's very like back.

1077
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 1: He's very comfortable right now. All right, all right, thank

1078
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 1: you so much for listening to Legally Brunette. We appreciate you.

1079
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 1: As always. You can find us anywhere you listen to podcasts.

1080
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:40,240
Speaker 1: All you have to do is search for legally Brunette,

1081
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: so please make sure to follow us, also leave a review,

1082
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: and if you're still listening to us under to teas,

1083
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 1: we do have an episode I believe every other week

1084
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: in two teas, So in order to hear all of

1085
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: our episodes, you're going to have to move over onto

1086
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Speaker 1: our own feed to listen to our weekly episodes because

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Speaker 1: they're not all in to tease, So just a reminder

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Speaker 1: about that. But thank you so much, guys, We appreciate you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you