1 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: There is no better sound in the world to me 2 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: than a full house with all of my family here 3 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: in the laughter, singing, cheering, stories, babies, dogs, the kitchen, 4 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: and full action, listening to all the people that love me. 5 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: In this just cocktail of energy, infusion of history of 6 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: our events, our ancestry, while adding simultaneously memories. If just 7 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: one of us is missing, the dynamic changes. You can 8 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: literally feel one person's absence in a room of thirty 9 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: five people. I have four sisters, and it takes all 10 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: four of them to ultimately give you that intensity, that 11 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: liveliness of a moment for it to exist. We recently 12 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: rented a cabin and there were rooms that were private 13 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: in the basement. There was even a detached apartment, but 14 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: I wanted the room right off the kitchen and the 15 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: living room. I'm Houston, Honey, I am command Central. I 16 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: want to be right in the middle of all the action. 17 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: I can only imagine how Tammy Jackson's family feels every 18 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: time they're together for a special family event or just 19 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: an average day. They have to be living with the 20 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: knowledge that Tammy is not there because of murder. She 21 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: was stabbed over a hundred and thirty times. Hog tied 22 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: and run over by a car. She was just seventeen 23 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: years old. She thought she was grown, y'all remember that age. 24 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: Her parents knew she wasn't, her sisters knew she wasn't. 25 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: She had the whole world ahead of her. She wanted 26 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: to live at Why open and then she's not just murdered, 27 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: but tortured. Is there a serial killer on the loose 28 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: or did somebody who knew her shut her up? I 29 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: ain't just hanging fire here. Let's go to work. I'm 30 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, and this is on seven. I started my 31 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: career in the trenches, and honey, I've stayed there for 32 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: the past forty years. I've worked every facet of the 33 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: criminal justice system, police, courts and corrections. I've worked with 34 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: law enforcement and victims of crime and criminals to solve 35 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: cold cases. And I have genuinely befriended them all, well, 36 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: not all of them, but most of them. I've had 37 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: the opportunity to work on hundreds of criminal cases you've 38 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: heard of and thousands that you haven't. As a working 39 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: c S I I'm not a first responder. I'm a 40 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: last responder. The unimaginable for any family is for a 41 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: member to be murdered. The Jackson family had such an 42 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: unbearable event. They're sweet seventeen year old daughter and sister 43 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: was stabbed and killed on Hudchison Island, Georgia. I have 44 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: four sisters. Each one is their own person. Their likes, dislikes, humor, style, talents, 45 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: all very different. Even our accents are slightly different. But 46 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: I know them, possibly better than anybody else. I know 47 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: the inside jokes, shared events, secrets, life changing moments. I 48 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: can anticipate how they're going to react to certain situations 49 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: and conditions. I know absolutely which one would love a 50 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: surprise party and which one would not. In my business, 51 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: under standing the victimology often lead you to the suspect ology. 52 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: If you can understand that victim, assess their risk factors, 53 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: understand the groups of people in their life, you can 54 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: start to narrow down the suspect pole. We must listen 55 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: to the people closest to them to truly understand that victim. 56 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: So our job today is not to say a seventeen 57 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: year old, but to say this seventeen year old, what 58 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: did she like, who did she love, what did she 59 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 1: do for fun? Why did she move out? When did 60 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: she go missing and did anybody report her. This is 61 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: not where we speculate. We want facts and stories. The 62 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: facts are January, construction workers found Tammy's body on Hutchinson Island, 63 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: just outside a Savanta. She had just turned seventeen a 64 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 1: month ago. She went missing at approximately ten pm. We're 65 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: not exactly sure of the actual time because this was 66 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: something fluid. A witness soar he thought something doesn't look 67 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,799 Speaker 1: right about that. This is a young girl to him, 68 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 1: you know, even from a distance, he knew she looked young, 69 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: and she's leaning into a car talking to two men, 70 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: and he just felt compelled to go check on her. 71 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: So that was the first time that we know for 72 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: sure a timetable. So it's approximately ten she's last seen 73 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: on the side of the road talking to these two guys. 74 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 1: Then she is not seen again until workers at daybreak 75 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: find her body on Hudgenson Island. So from ten pm 76 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: to seven am when she has found there is a 77 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: nine hour gap that we know of where she's driven 78 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: less than seventeen miles. We know she got out of 79 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: the car on Hudgenson Island because there are footprints with 80 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: a natural walking gate all the way to the river's 81 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: edge and back toward the car. There's two sets of footprints. 82 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: One we know is Tammy's because she's still wearing her 83 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: shoes when she's found and it matches the impression. The 84 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: other we don't know who that belongs to. We're assuming, 85 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: of course, obviously the killer. There's no running footsteps like 86 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: a wide gate. There's no scuff marks, there's no drag marks, 87 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: so it would appear that she was blitz attacked at 88 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: some point. We know there were two weapons used. One 89 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: was a straight edge weapon, one was another type of weapon. 90 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: We know rope was used, and then we know a 91 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: vehicle was used, and that is all we really know 92 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: right now. Tammy didn't have a car, so we gotta 93 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: figure out how she got there. She didn't have a 94 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: purse or i D. We gotta figure out how this 95 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: crime occurred. It's important to start with the victim again, 96 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: an eleventh grader, strong family, loving parents, close sisters. She's 97 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: in a juxtaposition of being a child and a woman. 98 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: We've all been there, we understand. It's also important to 99 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: understand where she came from. Savannah his star at Coastal Town, 100 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: deep South Georgia. It's star at Holmes towering Live Oaks, 101 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: a river city. It's small town life with major tourism. 102 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: How I got this case? You might be wondering how 103 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: I got it. So I'm scrolling one night and this 104 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: little paragraph pops up and it says, seventeen year old 105 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: stabbed a hundred thirty times hudgetson Island, Georgia, and I'm like, 106 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:37,719 Speaker 1: Hudginson Island. And I'm immediately thinking the ocean. And I'm like, 107 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: I've never heard of Hudgenson Island. I knew Jekyll, I 108 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: know sex Simons, etcetera. Never heard of this island. As 109 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: I read further, it said right across the Savannah River, 110 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, it's a river island. Still hadn't 111 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: heard of it. So I looked up her grave. On 112 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: her gray her sister's names were listed. I had never 113 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 1: seen siblings names added to a gravestone. So when I 114 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: saw Stacy and Tara Jackson, it was so simple and 115 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: so sweet, but it just said beloved sister of you know, 116 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: Stacy and Tara, and I thought that's such a compelling 117 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: thing to have on there. And for us it turned 118 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: out to be a godsend because we were able to 119 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: locate them on social media and then offer our help, 120 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: and shockingly, I did not hear back. So I reached 121 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: out again, and her older sister, Stacy called me back. 122 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: We're talking about the brutal murder of Tammy Jackson, who 123 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: was stabbed, hog tied, and run over by a car. Y'all, 124 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,599 Speaker 1: if you were to look at the details of this 125 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: case and the facts of this case just on paper, 126 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: and I did not tell you the age of this victim, 127 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 1: her actions, you would think she was older than she was. 128 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: She was going to bars, she was living in an apartment. 129 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: She was kind of doing as she pleased, you know, 130 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: going here and there. She knew different people, some married, 131 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: some single. She was alone with these people. She had 132 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: relationships with these men. And if you factor in a 133 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: month before she was murdered, she was sixteen. She had 134 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: no money, she had no car, she had no job, 135 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: she had no fake idea that anybody knew. But she 136 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: kept a diary like a child. And in that diary, 137 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: you know, she had these just idyllic dreams of this 138 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: white pick of fence was a man. She loved this child. 139 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: I mean, it kind of reminds me of that old 140 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: show let's make a deal where they would sometimes offer 141 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: a contestant a bicycle. I mean, it was a guarantee. 142 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,719 Speaker 1: Here's a brand new bicycle. You could have this, or 143 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: you could have what's behind this shiny curtain. And Tammy 144 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 1: seems like the type of person to me that is 145 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: never going for the real deal. I don't want to bike, 146 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: I want whatever is behind that shiny curtain. It was 147 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 1: just too intriguing to her. And that's how I see her, 148 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: a child that's playing these adult games and the rules 149 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: are getting changed on her. Now again, I'm just saying 150 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 1: how I feel Tammy is coming off how I see her. 151 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: But there is somebody that can tell us much better 152 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 1: than I ever could, and I think it's time for 153 00:11:48,160 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: us to bring her sister Stacy. Stacy, welcome to Zone Heaven. 154 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm so glad to be here. All right, 155 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: let's just start beginning. What did you think when you 156 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: got my message? Well, you can tell the truth. Tara 157 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: and I definitely collaborated behind the scenes because you know 158 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: that this You weren't the first, and since it had 159 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: been gosh well over twenty years, the case had been cold. 160 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 1: We were used to different people getting in touch with 161 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: us from time to time, and some of them were genuine, 162 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: some of them really did want to help, Others were 163 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 1: just looking for a story. Others were a little crazy 164 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: and just you know, putting their nose where they didn't 165 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: need to put it. So, yeah, we were skeptical when 166 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: we got your message and we discussed it and did 167 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 1: a little googling on Cheryl McCullum, and I was like, well, 168 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, she might be somebody we want to 169 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: talk to, so so I appreciate you calling me back. Well, yes, 170 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: we do too, for sure. Definitely there were even times 171 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: just because you just it's with such a terrible thing 172 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: that happened and so mysterious that we were afraid to 173 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 1: talk to strangers to a point because even when you 174 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,599 Speaker 1: and I started talking again, people came and asked me 175 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: the question that was in my mind all the time, 176 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: which was are you putting yourself in danger? What if 177 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: the person that came after her, because they're still out 178 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: there somewhere, I know they know who we are, are 179 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: they going to come hurt you too? But that's a 180 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: valid question, And that's a valid question for you as 181 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: a young mom and having a young child through all 182 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:53,239 Speaker 1: those years. Absolutely, that's valid, and like you said, factually 183 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: the killer is still out there. Right, all, Let's talk 184 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: about your mom and dad, your church, her school. Just 185 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: tell us about Tammy. Well. Tammy is a fraternal twin. 186 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: She's three years younger than me. Born and raised in Savannah. 187 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: It's the only place she ever lived. You know. We 188 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 1: grew up in a strong Christian home, fairly uneventful. You know, 189 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: we were all good kids. We didn't really cause a 190 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: lot of trouble. And you know, other than just normal 191 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: sisters stuff, my sisters did tended getting up on me 192 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: from time to time, so there was that whole element. 193 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: My mom was a full time teacher. She taught math, 194 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: and my mom was a rock star to be honest, 195 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: and I, like, I didn't learn to appreciate her until 196 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: I became an adult and a mother myself, because I 197 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: was a single mom for to just one. She raised 198 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: three of us. My dad was still around, but he 199 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: worked on the road, so he was hardly ever home. 200 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: But she worked full time as a teacher. She raised 201 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: three girls by herself, made sure we all had meals 202 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: every single night, we all had extracurricular activities, and we 203 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: were all completely different, and my mom made it happen. 204 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: She was awesome. My mom used to say, if you 205 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: could raise children and they're all different, that's just good 206 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: parenting because you let them be who they are. Yeah, 207 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: Tammy was the girliest of the three of us. Tammy 208 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: was the dancer. She was you know, tiny and petite 209 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: and just cute and she had great tone and she 210 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: just excelled everything she did and dance that was her thing. 211 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: She loved it. She had a ton of friends. She 212 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: did she did always and you know, she was always 213 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: really good about including Tara. Know they she loved Tara. 214 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: They were just you know, obviously it's their twins. It's 215 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: a connection that I would never be able to understand. 216 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: But they had some friends that were separate, but for 217 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: the most part, their friends were the same. They celebrated 218 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: birthdays together and had parties together. And she was just 219 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: always funny and laughing and making jokes and making fun 220 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: of herself and um, just she was great. That's the 221 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: part about her that just it's so hard to reconcile 222 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: in my mind. Somebody would find something in her that 223 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: was a threat or was negative or anything like that, 224 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: because she was just always so upbeat and positive, and 225 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: everybody loved Hammy. Everybody loved Hammy. Let's talk about her 226 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: moving out. How did that come about? We grew up 227 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: in a strong Christian, very sheltered home. There was not 228 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: a lot of communication between our parents and us about life, 229 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: and you know what to expect, and so, you know, 230 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: we were going to this private Christian school and it 231 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: was awful, very cliquish, and there were the popular kids 232 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 1: and they were the not popular kids. And and I 233 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: wasn't a popular kid. Tary and Tammy weren't popular kids. 234 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 1: We didn't wear all the latest fashions and stuff. Anyway, 235 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: it kind of messes with you. And so when I 236 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: started high school, my mom and dad let me go 237 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: to a public school. And that was the most liberating 238 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: experience of my life. But I went crazy. I went 239 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: from one side of the spectrum to the other. And 240 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: I was like, this is awesome, you know, just I 241 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: I did it all. I did it all. And I 242 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: caused a lot of grief for my parents during that 243 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: period of time, but I was having a great time. 244 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: And Done or Me looked up to me, almost to 245 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: a fault, because she she copied me if I did something. 246 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: She did it. If I liked to be and she 247 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: liked to be, And if I wore a certain kind 248 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 1: of clothes, she wore a certain kind of clothes. If 249 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: I wore my hair curly, she wore her hair, you know, 250 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: that whole thing. And while I should have considered it flattering, 251 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: it annoyed me to no end. But that was just 252 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: that was what she did, and it lasted for years 253 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: and years and years. So I say all that to 254 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 1: say that when Tammy got to that same age, when 255 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: she was in high school, she also transition from that 256 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: very private, very suffocating environment, judgmental to a public school, 257 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 1: and she was like, hey, I see it. Now she's on, 258 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: you know, fixus is on to something. So she proceeded 259 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: to as usual, you know, following my footsteps. But the 260 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: thing about me and Tammy that was very different is 261 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: I was always very I had a lot of common sense. 262 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: I had a lot of street smarts. Tammy wasn't. Tammy 263 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: was very spontaneous. Tammy was very in the moment, and 264 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: it's like, this is great, this feels good. Let's just 265 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: do this. I'm not gonna think about what happens next. 266 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: Tammy's family lived on the outskirts of town and a beautiful, 267 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: modest neighborhood. Lots of friends. You know, they had barbecues, 268 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: they just had a great time. Her mom was a 269 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: geometry teacher that had just recently turned bank teller, so 270 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: she was, you know, switching jobs a little bit. Their 271 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: dad was an engineer that worked for Western House. He 272 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 1: was on the road all the time. Their entire childhood. 273 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: He was basically gone. And you know, Tammy's life was 274 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: in Middle America. Mom and dad her home. Mom and 275 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: dad stayed together. Mom and dad love each other. They're 276 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,719 Speaker 1: a solid family. They go to church, they go to school, 277 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: they hang out with each other. The three siblings were very, 278 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: very close. As we know. Tammy had a twin sister, Tara, 279 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: and then an older sister, Stacy. But the three of them, 280 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: I mean they would seeing they were dads, you know, 281 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: just sibling stuff. There was a little bit of a 282 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: rivalry maybe sometimes with sharing clothes, and you know, I 283 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: think Stacy pretty so cute when she talked about how 284 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: Tammy wanted to be just like her um. But that's 285 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: the deal. I mean, they were just that solid family. 286 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: Every single person that knew them loved them and cared 287 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: about him and had nothing but wonderful things to say 288 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: about all of them. So she started to meet these 289 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: bad choices. She met a guy who was in the army. 290 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: Of course, she's young, she's only seventeen mh. And he's 291 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: in his twenties in the military. He's an adult. And 292 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: she starts seeing him, and like I've always said this before, 293 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: she was just a little kid trying to play grown 294 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: up games. But she didn't know the rules and she 295 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: didn't know how to play. I think she just kind 296 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: of felt like she was being pulled in different directions. 297 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: It was this life that she was living now versus 298 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: the life that she was raised in, and it was 299 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: just conflicting. I think it is so important for y'all 300 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: to remember this was not a bad kid. This was 301 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: a kid making bad choices. This boyfriend was much older 302 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: than Tammy, and he had been in the military, and 303 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: he had about a decade on her, so you know, 304 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: he had more life experience than she did. That girl 305 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: was sheltered, she was smothered, she was cared for. She 306 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: did not have freedom like a lot of folks. So again, 307 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: this seems to be where Tammy's life took such a turn. 308 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: She started making decisions that weren't just poor, you know, 309 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 1: poor choices, they were pitiful choices. She put herself at 310 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: risk by some of the things she started to do. 311 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: Tammy's life goes from her making poor choices to others 312 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: helping her make dangerous decisions. You know, my parents are saying, no, 313 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: you have to live like this, you have to do 314 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: these things, and her friends are saying, no, you should 315 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: do it like this. And eventually it all kind of 316 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: came to a head where after weeks of rebelling and 317 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: lying to my parents and refusing to come home, and 318 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: you know, they finally gave her the ultimatum and said, look, 319 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: our house, our rules. If you don't want to live 320 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: by our rules, then you can't live in our house. 321 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: You can't drive our cars. It was the ultimate example 322 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: of tough love. I remember my mom giving her the 323 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: ultimatum over the phone, and we were all like, she's 324 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: going to come home. She's not stupid. She didn't come home. 325 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: Even the next day, my dad changed the lots on 326 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: the front door. We're like, well, you know, mom didn't 327 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: scare her. Dad's gonna scare her for sure. The next 328 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: day he's changing a lot she showed up at the 329 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: house and he's like, give me your keys. If you're 330 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: not gonna live byur rules, then get your stuff and 331 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: get out. And she did. But Damny also felt like 332 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: she had somewhere to go, right, yeah, because she had 333 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: this boyfriend in her ear, just come stay with me. 334 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: All your parents there, this, you're there, that, your sister, 335 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: she's this, she's that, So you can just come stay 336 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: with me. He had his own place, you know. For her, 337 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: it was it was you know, she I'm sure she 338 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: romanticized the entire idea because it was like, oh, I 339 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: can go live with my boyfriend and I can you know, 340 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: play house and pretend like I'm the little wife and 341 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: and you know the part of that that blows my 342 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: mind because in my head, I'm thinking, man, you bust 343 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 1: out at seventeen, you're living with your boyfriend in this apartment. 344 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: You are as free as you're ever gonna be. But 345 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: she went to school every single dance. That blows my 346 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: mind because for me, the kind of student I was, Honey, 347 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: that'd be the last building I darkened ever again. I 348 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: would be like, I'm out, I'm free. You think I'm 349 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 1: gonna do a you know, geometry problem. Ever, it's not 350 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: gonna happen, I know. And here she's going to school 351 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: every day, every day. And I think that too, was 352 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: just like that, you know, that warring that was going 353 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: on inside of her because she knew, like in her 354 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: deep down places, she knew what she was doing was wrong. 355 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,959 Speaker 1: She knew, you know, the rebellion was wrong and her 356 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: choices were wrong. But she was like, but this one 357 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 1: thing I can continue to do right, So I'm gonna 358 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: do it at m Granted she rebelled. She loved my 359 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 1: mom and dad dearly so much that even during that 360 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: month that she was out of the house, she would 361 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: call my mom. They would Mom would take her to lunch. 362 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: You know. She was like always trying to like soothe 363 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: things with her and feel her out. And she told 364 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: my mom, I know I need to come home. I 365 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: know what I'm doing is wrong, but I need a 366 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 1: little bit more time, is what she told her. All right, 367 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about When you and I 368 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: did talk finally on the phone, I thought there might 369 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: be a couple of things on this case we could 370 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: try that maybe the detective was not aware of that 371 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: was work in the case. I talked to one detective 372 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: didn't really get anywhere. And then you got a new detective. Yeah, 373 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: you called me. I'll never forget you called me and 374 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: he said we got a new detective. And I'm like, 375 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 1: who is it? And you said, Terra Smia. And the 376 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: first thing that crossed my mind is she's a mama. 377 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: She might see this whole thing a little differently. So 378 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: what did you think? So actually, the detective Smith called 379 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: me and she asked me. She told me she they 380 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 1: had a new cold case unit with the police department, 381 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,959 Speaker 1: and she asked me some questions, and then I never 382 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: heard from her again. So I was like, well, you know, 383 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: I'm used to this is what I told you in 384 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: the beginning, Like we're just used to people disappointed, you know. 385 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: I mean, they try and then nothing happens. But one 386 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: day I get a phone call from my friend Lisa 387 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: and she said her granddaughter was taken some class by 388 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: another home school mom about criminal justice. Turns out it 389 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: was Tara. We call her detective Tara. They got to 390 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: talk in because Lisa's granddaughter said, mom my g has 391 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: a friend who's had a person, you know, her sister 392 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: was murdered. And then they got to talk in and 393 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: realized that Lisa's friend was me, and that Detective Tara 394 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: was the one that was actually on Tammy's case, and 395 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 1: that she hadn't She had been doing work on her own. 396 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 1: One night, she was at work and like a breeze 397 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: or something. She was standing next to somebody else's desk 398 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: and a breeze came by and like not some papers 399 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: off the desk and whatever it knocked off right there 400 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: underneath it was the stuff that I had given to 401 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: the other guy. And she's like, this is my case. 402 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: So when she saw my friend Lisa, she was like, 403 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: tell her to call me. So I did, and she 404 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: tells me this story and I'm like, wow, that's insane. 405 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: And then I was like, well, I've been talking to 406 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: this lady, and I said, why don't I uh put 407 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: you two together? Because I really wanted to see what happened, 408 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: because I was like, you know, I was getting a 409 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: good feeling, but I felt like if you could validate that. 410 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: And when you called me back and said she's awesome 411 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: and that she was all about all of the stuff 412 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: that you were wanting to do, the first thing she 413 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: said to me was what do you got? What can 414 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: we do. I mean, it's just been amazing since then 415 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: because she's an amazing person. I just love her. She's 416 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: an amazing person, and she's smart. She walts to do 417 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: everything she can on a case. And one of the 418 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: first things she said to me was, I'm not sure 419 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: how this is going to play out with our budget, 420 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: and so I got to thinking about that, and I 421 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: thought that that's gonna be our only roadblock. We gotta 422 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: move that. And that's when you and I talked, and 423 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: we reached out to Carl Marino. And I want people 424 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: to know how awesome this guy is because those of 425 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: you that are fans with Homicide Hunter, Carl Marino plays 426 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: the young Joe Kenda. Well, I called him and I 427 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,479 Speaker 1: told him about Tammy, and I said, I've got an 428 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: idea about raising some money. His wife is also an actress. 429 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: They just make a beautiful couple. They're a sweet, dynamic, 430 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: engaging couple. And I said, if y'all come to Atlanta 431 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: and we do a fun thing about kind of behind 432 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: the scenes of Homicide Hunter, think people would be interested 433 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: in that, right and we could raise some money. Well, 434 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: sure enough, we did, and we raise enough money to 435 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: start the process of testing some of the things that 436 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: the scene, and again, all these things kind of lined 437 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: up because you again put yourself out there, Stacy, and 438 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: you call somebody you don't know. Then you call another 439 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: detective that you're not sure if they're gonna let you 440 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: down again as well. But you kept doing that, and 441 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: I think this fight that you've been in and it 442 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: is a fight to one keep the case alive because 443 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you, for those in my world to 444 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: have a case that somebody seventeen years old has done 445 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: to her, what Tammy Jackson had done to her, and 446 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: I've never heard of the case, that shouldn't be. We 447 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: should all know about her. We should all be looking 448 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: around saying, hey, what can we maybe think of to 449 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: help put this case where it needs to be. And 450 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: that's in the solved column. I get asked all the time, 451 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: what would it mean to you for this case to 452 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: be solved? Well, I'm gonna tell you about now. It 453 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: ain't about me, but it would mean after thirty years, 454 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: Tammy Jackson finally has justice. It means after thirty years, 455 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: her family has answers, and it means, after thirty years, 456 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: the people of Savannah have got a killer off the street, 457 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: Why don't you talk a little bit about some of 458 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: the things that you've had to do to keep this 459 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: thing alive. When it first happened, there was a lot 460 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: of information that was coming almost on a daily basis. 461 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: You know, the detectives kept in touch with us and 462 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: they would say, well, we have this, and we have this, 463 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: and you know, they always sounded very hopeful. And that 464 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: went on for I don't know, two or three months, 465 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: I think, and then all of a sudden, they just 466 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: stopped calling us. We learned pretty early on that if 467 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: we were going to try to find out anything about 468 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: Tammy or keep her name at the top of people's lists, 469 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: that we were going to have to be the ones 470 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: to instigate and you know, ask the questions and be present, 471 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: make the appointment, show up at the police you know. 472 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: Um My mom and Tara used to go a lot. 473 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: They would go up there to see the lieutenant just 474 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: to say do you have anything and he would always 475 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: say no, or he would say well we're still looking 476 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: at this lead, but these are the issues or this 477 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: is where we are with it. And I couldn't even 478 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: tell you how long they did that for, but it 479 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: was always us, always here's the thing. Even when you 480 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: and I did the event with Carl Marino, you looked 481 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: at me at one point and you're like, this is 482 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: just so hard, Like this just takes it out of me. 483 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: So it's not like it's enjoyable for you. It's not 484 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: like you even tonight when you get off this podcast, 485 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: it's not like you're gonna go, WHOA, that was awesome. No, 486 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: I had so much fun. A matter of fact, I 487 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: don't want to do this. I hate doing this stuff. 488 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: I don't want to do it, and I know you 489 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: hate it. I know you hate it. And for me, 490 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: you know, it's so important that people know her. It's 491 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: important that people connect with her in some way because 492 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: you know, the more people you make care, the more 493 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: pressure that's put correctly, I think, on law enforcement, just 494 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: to be sure you're not gonna forget her. Well, I mean, 495 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: I know for a fact the detective you have right 496 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: now that's not the case. But I'm talking about for 497 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: the last you know, decade after decade. So I'm saying 498 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: now it's a different day, But there was a time. 499 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: No phone call, no update, no canvasing, no trying to 500 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: get new witnesses, nothing. I mean that was the status quo. 501 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 1: That's why when you said in the beginning, you said it, 502 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: and Detective Terra said, look, I'm not going to make 503 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: you any promises, but I'm gonna try. And I was, 504 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: you know, it was like in my mind, think, girl, 505 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: that was my wedding vakay, that's that's all I can do. 506 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: No promises, but I'm gonna try. But I was just like, 507 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: but you know, that's I mean, I'm good with that 508 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 1: because that's all we've you know, honestly, sometimes that's more 509 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: than what we've gotten. Well, it's all I can tell 510 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: you with my forty years experiences, Terris Smith, they're gonna 511 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: let that happen, and the prosecutors in Savannah Chadaw County 512 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: ain't gonna let that happen. If we get close enough, 513 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,839 Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a solid case that you're 514 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 1: gonna be proud of and that prayerfully if we can 515 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: get That's why I have a lot of faith in 516 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: her because even though it's gotten to the point now 517 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: where I'll go months without talking to her, Um, I'm not. 518 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: It's not that same feeling, it's not that same familiar well, 519 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: you know, here we go again, like I know she's 520 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: doing things, but I also know that she's crossing her 521 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: teeth and she's got in her eyes because she wants 522 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: to make sure that it's solid. And I appreciate that, 523 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: and that gives me a lot of patients. I have 524 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people that contact me and they're like, 525 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: you're anything yet you know, we have the Facebook group 526 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: and I haven't posted on that and forever, because you know, 527 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: people are just like, you know, what's the latest? Do 528 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: you know anything? Like is it gone back to being cold? 529 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: And you know, I just want to say it's no. 530 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it'll happen when it's supposed to happen, and 531 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: I truly, truly, truly believe that. But how do you 532 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: and I think you are closer than you have ever been. 533 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: Oh for sure, for sure, and we wouldn't have been 534 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: able to knife the white hats are coming. I just 535 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 1: every time I look at her, I mean, I just 536 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: know she's working, you know what I mean. She's wonderful 537 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,799 Speaker 1: and she always told me she's always had this case. 538 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: She's I will never stop working on this case, even 539 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: if I get fired, and I never don't work for 540 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: the police anymore. She's girls like, she told me that, 541 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: and I said, wait, that's something I don't please, don't 542 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: get fired, not yet, not yet. No, But she that 543 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,359 Speaker 1: is her, and she means if she were to get 544 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: fired tomorrow, this case files going with her. She's not stopping, 545 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,320 Speaker 1: and she's too close. And when you say that, you 546 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: know she's crossing those teas and dot in those eyes. 547 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,919 Speaker 1: I have rarely seen somebody work so deliberately with every 548 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: thing she does, every phone call, she understands what's going 549 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 1: to be discoverable. She understands they're gonna be looking at 550 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 1: her notes. She understands all of it. And she's ready, 551 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 1: so good, feeling ready. I'm ready to so we'll see. Well. 552 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: I appreciate you again put yourself out there talking about 553 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: this horrible event. But again I'm telling you, there's power 554 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: in it. The more people that think about Tammy can 555 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 1: send a prayer for you, your dad, Tara, the detective Tara. 556 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: I think that's important for people to think about you 557 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: all and send good vibes because I feel that too. 558 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: I can every time I watch you do a speech, 559 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: I'll watch that audience. You can feel that, and you're 560 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: gonna be able to feel this too. So I appreciate 561 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 1: you being here. I appreciate you more than you now. Again, 562 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: none of this would have happened if it weren't for you, 563 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: and I'm just so thankful for you all the time. 564 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 1: And like I said, even if nothing ever came from this, 565 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: nobody has cared about us the way you have, and 566 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: that's sweet of you to say for that. But listen, well, 567 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 1: I love y'all too, and we ain't done. We're gonna 568 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: have a follow up episode. I feel it, y'all. I'm 569 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: gonna end Zone seven with a quote from somebody from 570 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 1: my Zone seven and this is from Becky Patty, the 571 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:32,360 Speaker 1: grandmother of Liberty German, killed in Delphi, Indiana. Becky said, listen, 572 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: you hear more than you realize. And I don't think 573 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,800 Speaker 1: that could be truer than on Tammy's case. In the 574 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: next episode of his Zone seven, I speak with Detective 575 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,280 Speaker 1: Taras Smith as we look at details of finding Tammy's 576 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: botting the pathway of this investigation and working to or 577 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: finding in her killer or killers. We investigate multiple potential suspects, 578 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 1: multiple potential motives, and we get to see firsthand how 579 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:11,280 Speaker 1: this detective honey action oriented detective is on this case 580 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 1: and it's gonna solve it. I believe in my heart 581 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 1: that tariffs nil will solve this case. I'm Cheryl McCollum 582 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:22,360 Speaker 1: and this is on seven