WEBVTT - Nick Lowe 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:14.680 Pushkin. Niccolo grew out of England's pub rock scene to 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.599 write some of the smartest songs of the New Wave era. 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.079 His classics like so It Goes, I Love the Sound 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:24.160 of Breaking Glass and Cruel to Be Kind stand up 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:26.840 with any of the best songs of the time and 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:30.440 He's still going. Nicolo's newest ep, Laid On Me, comes 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.760 out June fifth and shows he's still the strong songwriter 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:38.800 he always was. Nicolo established himself early by writing and 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.000 producing one of the UK's early punk singles, for the Damned, 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:45.920 produced Elvis Costello's first five albums, co founded one of 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:49.879 my favorite record labels, Stiff Records, and wrote the classic 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:54.120 What's So Funny About Peace, Love and Understanding. Nick talked 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:56.480 to Bruce Helum about all of this, plus what it 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.680 was like Marion. It's Johnny Cash's family and a hilarious 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:07.200 first encounter with Keith Richards. This is broken record liner 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:15.000 notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Bruce 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.360 Hadlum and Nick Low from GSI Studios in Brooklyn. This 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:20.880 interview was tape on Nick was on tour with Love 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:24.200 Straight Jackets. So why don't we start with one of 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:27.560 your new songs. Oh okay, yeah, last night was the 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:29.399 last night of our tour. I've been on tour with 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:33.080 the Straight Jackets, so place. The song that you've recorded 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:39.160 with this is called Love Starvation. I'll do my best 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:46.680 to do. Can you tell me the inspiration for that song? Well, 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:51.200 I was doing some recording with the Straight Jackets in 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:56.080 New York City last year and we came back from 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:58.400 the studio. We'd had a pretty good day. We came 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.920 back from the studio and I just thought we needed 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:06.080 a song within that tempo that would that's that sort 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:10.800 of tempo, kind of Bobby full of four, Ritchie Valen's 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:17.480 kind of tempo, sort of sixties Holly Gully beat. You know. 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.440 I could hear them doing it. And when I got 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:24.480 back to the UK, I woke up one morning with 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:28.520 this title Love Starvation, which I thought was a really 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:32.440 really good title and I and it sort of wrote itself. 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:36.320 Do you write every day? Is that part of Europe? 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:40.120 I do. It's not always any good. In fact, mainly 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:44.800 it's not. I'm not terribly prolific, but I never stopped 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:50.880 writing stuff. But I because I've heard it before, I 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.920 get impatient with myself because I just I think I've 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:58.520 heard that that's no good. Oh yeah, there's more of 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:04.200 that old rubbish, is it? And then one day something 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:10.679 will come to mind that I haven't heard before, and 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:13.560 and I'll I sort of go into a kind of trance, 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:17.160 I suppose, and it might take a week or two, 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:20.919 or sometimes that it goes after a week or two 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:23.560 and I just sort of lose interest in it, or 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.520 but if it's any good, it'll come back. But I 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:29.320 go into a sort of a trance, and I fiddle 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:37.000 around with a fiddle around with it until it's suddenly finished, 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:40.720 and I think that I've written a cover song. On 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.040 The ones that I think are good are ones that 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:47.280 sound to me like not actually like an actual song 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:50.440 that I've ripped off, but it'll sound like I haven't 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:53.200 had anything to do with it. And those are the 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.080 ones that I think are good. If I hear my 0:03:55.280 --> 0:04:00.240 little tricks and little fancies and things that you do, 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:04.600 if I hear that, I get really impatient with it, 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:07.760 and I don't like it. It's a very peculiar thing 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:11.680 writing songs, because you can't turn it on, neither can 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:16.640 you turn it off. And sometimes it well. When I 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:21.120 was younger, I used to. I used to really freak 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:23.960 if I if I couldn't write a song, you know, 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:25.600 if I hadn't done for a while. I used to 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.719 get really upset and then start forcing it, forcing it out. 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.320 And that's that's the worst thing you can possibly do. 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:34.560 So it's not forcing it up, but you still work 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:40.560 at it. Yeah, working at it is pleasurable, but forcing 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:44.120 it is unspeakable. Well I can. I'll give you an 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:46.680 example if you like. I'll play something which is just 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:50.280 a real work in progress. It's just something which has 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:54.440 got three bits. It's got three bits to it, and 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:59.360 it doesn't really make sense, but there's there's a there's 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.880 a few bits and pieces that I would say could 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:06.159 be good. It's the song is called I'm on Your Plane, 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:10.719 which is a weird title like I'm on your level 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:16.680 or something, you know, because it's got it's got possibilities. 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.200 But I but it doesn't really sort of make much 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:22.880 sense yet. So you'll try and come up with a 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.840 bridge or do you think you've distinct parts that aren't 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:29.040 fitting together? I think I think that the actual shape 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:30.920 of it. I think the tune is good. And there's 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.239 three parts. There's an A, B and a c part, 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:37.119 and they all seem to I probably wouldn't do any 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:42.000 I wouldn't probably wouldn't write any another part, but I 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:46.800 might juggle change change one of the part, or two 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.080 of the parts too, So they're quite they're a bit 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:52.760 different the second time they come around. That's how I 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.360 feel that one would go. And so you've always got 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.840 some of those you're working on. What's your hit rate? 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:04.800 If how many you say some things you just abandoned? 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:07.560 How many songs would you rate before you would have 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:13.599 an album's worth to say? Oh god, I probably. I 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.480 mean my songs are all pretty short. So an album's 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:21.760 worth is about eleven or twelve songs. I'd have to 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:26.640 write about thirty to get twelve songs that I like. Well, 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.080 something like that, because I always do a couple of covers, 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:34.200 at least a couple of covers almost my records. When 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.159 you were writing in early seventies and you were with 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:40.479 Brindsley Schwartz and you were you wrote a lot of 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.320 the songs that became your hits later on, was writing 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:46.280 the same back then? For you? It was? It was 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:51.840 when I hear that the early songs I wrote, I 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:57.640 can really hear a kid, you know, start starting to 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:00.520 feel his way, you know, my, my. The way I 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:03.760 always explain it is that, you know, we figured out 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:07.000 that in order to have any staying power, we had 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:11.080 to learn how to write songs. So a couple of 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:14.920 us were into it, you know, and you start off 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:20.040 writing your heroes, you know, catalog and then and it's 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:24.080 very very obvious that they you know where it's come from. 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:27.040 And then you'll move on to someone else and rewrite 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.920 their catalog, and someone else after that, and someone else 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:35.400 after that, until one day you'll be writing your latest 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:39.040 hero's catalog. But you'll put a bit of the first 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:43.480 person and a couple of bits from the third and 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:47.880 suddenly you'll find that it's not exactly like your latest hero. 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.760 It's got something else about it because you put these 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:53.960 other influences in. And that's the way it goes and 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:58.160 goes and goes, until suddenly you've got your own recipe, 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:01.640 you know, like a Hallett. Who was that first hero 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:05.800 for you, the one you were imitating. Well, I think 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.520 at the time I joined my first band and I 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:12.640 really got, you know, started to take it seriously. I 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:15.960 think it was probably the band I think I loved 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:20.880 I loved the band Crosby, Stills and Nash people like that. 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:26.080 No one too obscure, you know, they're all pretty mainstream. 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:28.120 It's only a game. When I got older, you know, 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:30.720 I started hearing I mean, i'd been a mod when 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:34.880 when I was a teenager and so, and we should 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.320 explain what does that mean that you're oh, well, it 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:39.839 was a sort of youth movement in the sixties, and 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.920 they they they were they had a sort of fashion, 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:46.920 you know, they liked wearing the right clothes and things 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.120 that we used to ride on scooters, you know, on 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:54.720 little Vespers and Lambrettas. And the music they listened to 0:08:54.840 --> 0:09:01.520 was all American R and B music, motown and stacks, 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:07.160 stuff from from Memphis and Scars scar and blue beat 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:11.520 and reggae music. And so i'd been i'd been a mod, 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:14.240 So I thought that I knew quite a lot about 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:19.920 cool music. Um, you know how wrong I was. But 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:21.880 but you know, for a seventeen year old, you know, 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:27.080 I was pretty you know, I knew who you know, 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.319 Solomon Burke was, and Johnny Taylor and people like that, 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.520 but I wasn't writing like like that. That I thought 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.960 that was really really hard to do to write those 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:42.280 kind of songs, which is strange because they're simple. They're 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.520 really simple, and it's very those that's the hardest stuff 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:50.079 to do, is some a real simple direct message. What 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.360 was the first country music you liked, because that's a 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:56.920 big influence on Yeah, yeah it is. Well, um, that's 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:01.800 that's much easier to answer. My my father was in 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:06.360 the RAF and when I was a kid, I lived 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.599 in the Middle East and wherever he was stationed in 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:15.240 the Middle East, or Germany and Cypress Jordan, and they 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:19.600 had I did a lot of listening to records then 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:23.840 the family record collection, and my mother was very musical, 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:29.280 and she had the you know, Sinatra and Nat King 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:33.120 Cole and you know the stuff South Pacific and guys 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:35.319 and dolls and all that stuff in a soundtracks. Well, 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.800 forget back that, the soundtracks and Broadway shows all that. 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.280 I had the King and I the King, and I 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:45.440 absolutely and so I loved all these records. But she 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.880 had in her collection very bizarrely, and she didn't know. 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:51.640 When I got older, I asked her, where did you 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:55.080 get those from? She had two ten inch tennessee Ernie 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:59.360 Ford records. I just thought, this is the greatest thing 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.400 I'd ever heard. He had this fantastic voice, you know, 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:06.720 which was like a Disney like a Disney cartoon character, 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:08.640 like I'm the King of the Swingers, you know, like 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:12.880 Louis form was it, Louis Primer did did that. But 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.679 he had this beautiful sort of baritone voice. But it 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:19.719 wasn't just that that that his records were so swinging. 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:22.640 I didn't know it was country music. I could tell 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:25.400 it was sort of some sort of hillbilly thing going 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:27.400 on there, but they were playing with all these jazz 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:31.679 chords in and I didn't I didn't understand that that 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:36.000 was the sort of California version of country and western music. 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:38.920 I'd never heard anything like this, and it sounded like 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:43.040 that Tennessee in my seven year old mind, something like 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.040 Tennessee ear. And he was really cool. I could see 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:46.720 that because of what the clothes he was wearing on 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:50.600 the covers of these records. What was he wearing? California 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.480 casual pool were right. He was never he was never 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:57.400 a cowboy. He was if he did it was a 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:01.520 sort of stuff that real cowboys didn't quite wear, you know, 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:08.520 like a tasseled tailored tasseled swayed jacket or something like 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:10.839 that might have got himself beaten up on the rail, 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:15.360 but he looked so cool. He looked so cool. But 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.240 also it sounded to me like his mates who were 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.560 playing on this record were also really cool, which so 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.800 they made each other sound cool because they were hanging 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:28.120 out with Tennessee and obviously we're doing what he said, 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:31.920 But Tennessee was cool enough to know these people who 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.480 could make this fantastic noise. So that's the first thing 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:39.280 I heard that really really blew my mind, I thought. 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.160 And it was so swinging. And then what your first 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.720 instrument was? Was it a guitar? Well, I had a 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:49.199 little plastic sort of ukulele that my grandma bought me, 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:53.000 and then I got another that I sat on that 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.200 I think or somebody did anywhere, but I got another one. 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.800 It was like a banjo version, same sort of thing, 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.320 but it had an amaze using a little gadget that 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:05.640 you clipped onto the neck came separate and you just 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.960 you had elastic bands or something, and it had push 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:13.960 buttons on it and each where each button was it 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:16.840 had a little cord window. But you pressed the buttons 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.800 down and it made underneath it pressed the strings down 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:23.280 in the right place, so you effectively just playing the 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:28.240 So he gave me an ear for for how you 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.520 know which chords would go with, especially with simple songs 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.640 like Lonnie Donegan was the guy that from my generation 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:38.160 was the fellow that we all copied because he played 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.439 very simple songs. They were they were sort of lead 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:46.079 belly songs and you know, work songs and folk songs really, 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:51.840 but they had this great swinging, swinging drive to them 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:55.240 because they were jazz players who played on his records. 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:57.440 But they were very simple and very easy to learn. 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:00.559 And it wasn't too long before I thought, this is 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.120 a bit uncool pressing the buttons down. You know, I'm 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:06.240 going to figure out where my fingers actually go. You know, 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.600 how then did it become your dream to become a 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:14.000 musician from pressing a button on a plastic guitar. Well, 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.360 I didn't really want to become a musician more than 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.880 I wanted to be famous. That that was my first 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:25.080 drive and have lots of people telling me I was marvelous. 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.880 I didn't realize there was going to be any any 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.600 work involved in it. And you thought just the hair 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:37.320 and I had the head. That was a start yes, 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:42.960 and being you know, any kind of believing that that 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.680 I was any kind of artist was far from my 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.400 my thoughts and and still is really. You know, I 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:55.920 think of myself really as a as a as an 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:59.040 artisan sort more than an artist. You know, I make 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.080 artistic decis but I think I'm a hack really and 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.400 proud of it. You know. I'll i'll have a go 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.160 at doing anything jingles, you know, I'll have I'll have 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.040 a shot at anything. But I make I make sort 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:15.760 of artistic decisions along the way. Really. But and then 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.280 how did that start for you? Did you drop out 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.880 of school or you did? I went to quite a 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:26.120 good school, actually, but I wasn't. I wasn't very academically gifted. 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:30.280 I had a facility with for English and writing, and 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:35.160 I thought I might be a journalist actually, And I 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:39.480 can remember these well, these guys who have definitely been 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:42.720 in the war, in the Second World War war correspondents, 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.560 you know, they'd come out to these trouble spots and 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.800 they'd come and stay with us because my dad, who 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.080 was stationed commander of these places, he was quite high up, 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.880 would would make sure they had the right accreditations and 0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:00.440 papers and all that stuff. Passes, you know, to go 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.920 to these areas and used to stay at the house. 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:06.480 And I really liked these guys, you know, there was 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:10.240 something about them. I liked the way they drank and smoked, 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.120 you know, and the way they talked and laughed with 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.320 each other, easy sort of camaraderie. Also their clothes as well. 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:21.120 I loved their clothes that they had well, very well worn, 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.560 you know, And I thought I wanted to be one 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:26.800 of those people. And I got this job at a 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:32.840 paper as editorial assistant, making tea, sweeping up, filing copy. 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:39.360 Occasionally they give me a movie at the local fleet pit. 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.880 I'd get that, I'd go down and review it. It 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.840 was a real break for someone like me, you know, 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:49.760 to get into and I've been there about six months, 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:54.200 I suppose, and I realized that I didn't have what 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:58.680 it took. These fellows were really fantast it was only 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:02.120 a local paper, but they were really good, and I 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:04.560 realized that I didn't really have what it took to 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.639 do that. My dreams of being in a in a 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:13.080 foxhole with a mud spattered remington, you know, wearing a 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:16.960 steel helmet with a cigar stub clamped in my teeth 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:18.879 you know, knocking out the copy, you know, with the 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:24.760 incoming incoming, I was just going to It was just 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.080 really ridiculous, you know, it was never going to happen. 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.760 And then I got a call from Brindsey Schwartz who said, 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.600 come and join my band. And you knew him from 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:36.719 school from school. I went to school with him, yea. 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:41.959 And then you started playing? When did the writing start? Um? 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:48.280 Fairly fairly soon after I joined again? I really messed 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.440 things up for them, really because when I joined, when 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:55.240 I joined the group, they were they were on Parlophone, 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:59.720 which was the Beatles label. In those days. Anyone really 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:03.160 who could knock out two or three chords and had 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.280 a kiss of drums got a record deal. It was very, 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.119 very very easy to get a record deal, but still 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:11.960 with Parlophone that was something else, that was the Beatles label. 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:16.639 And they got this deal. They didn't play on their 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:20.120 own records, which was very common then. They had session 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.840 people playing on the Compson. They on the on the record, 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:29.119 but they they they sang. And when I joined the group, 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:32.640 you know, I figured that I was way more hip 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.960 than than they were, and so we can't have this 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:37.879 and we've got to play on our own records, you 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.240 know this, And actually the records that they did with 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:45.560 the session men playing were sounded fantastic in but you 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:49.480 didn't know about the Monkeys back then, you thought exactly, 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:54.280 And so I said, no, no, we've got to we've 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:57.840 got to play our own stuff. And so then we've 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:01.240 we've very soon got fired as soon as we as 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.160 soon as we started playing on our own records. I thought. 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.520 After the Beatles, it was understood that musicians had to 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:08.000 play on their own records. That was part of their 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:11.359 appear that that didn't change. Well, the Beatles were you know, 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:16.159 this was nineteen sixty eight when I when I joined them, 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.639 The Beatles hadn't released their white album that then they 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:23.960 were still actually going you know, um, so it was 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.440 it was a it was a huge scandal in this 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:31.119 story broke not that our group had session member, that 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:35.520 any that most pop groups had session people playing on 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.640 their records. It was you know, people couldn't believe it. 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:46.000 We'll be right back after this quick break. We're back 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:49.240 with more of Bruce's conversation with Nick Lowe. But you 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:53.159 you had a period where you wrote a lot of 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.600 sort of your what would later become big hits for you, 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:00.560 you wrote so goes And that was really much later 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:03.239 that the first. The first thing I wrote, which was 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:08.840 really good was, well, it was an original idea. As 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:12.200 I've I've said before because people have asked me about it, 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.000 is a song called What's So Funny about Peace, Loan 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:17.840 and Understanding? And I remember the day I had the 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:20.879 idea for it. I thought I couldn't believe it, that 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.960 I'd actually had an original idea that I hadn't come from. 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:28.600 What was the what was the genesis? I suppose that 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:32.560 the the the genesis of it was was it was 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:36.320 sort of funny. I was because the hippie dream was 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:38.960 sort of dying. I suppose this is about nineteen seventy one. 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:41.640 I thought of this, and the hippie dream was sort 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:46.200 of dying, and and people were starting, People who had 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:50.440 been hippies were started rediscovered alcohol, you know, and they're 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:54.639 rather embarrassed that they'd you know, dabbled with this this 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:58.760 thing and they were, you know, le deserting the sinking 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:01.879 ship in drow. And I suppose the idea for the 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:05.080 song was a you know, a die hard hippie saying 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:07.800 to all his followers or all the people who were 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:13.000 in his commune, you know, who are now leaving. Well, 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:15.240 you think I'm a you know, I'm an old has been. 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:18.760 But but what you can't deny, you know, you can't 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:22.280 deny that that peace, peace, love and understanding is that 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:24.879 is what we should all be looking for, you know. 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:27.920 And you're sniggering at it and laughing at it. But 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:30.280 what's so funny about when it comes down to it, 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.240 what's so funny about? That was the idea for the song, 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:35.920 and I thought, well, it's a bit of a mouthful, 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:39.359 but it's a really great title. What's so funny about peace, 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:42.239 Love and understanding? Because because people did used to do that, 0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:44.760 Oh yeah, man, you know, do the do the peace sign, 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.440 you know as a you know, whole piece and love 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:52.960 man in this rather rather sort of annoying tone of voice, 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.960 you know, that they'd adopt. So it was, it was 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:00.680 it was a sort of funny song really about peace. 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.600 The most cynical people person you can enjoy. But the 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:11.000 but the surprising thing, looking back now from from this distance, 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:16.639 is that I can remember also having a very mature thought, 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:19.239 which when I think back to how I was in 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:23.879 those days, I didn't have a single mature thought, you know, 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:26.840 going for me at all. But in this case I did, 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:32.000 and that was not to mess it up by trying 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.720 to explain about an old hippie, you know, and you 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:38.840 know I'm just an old hippie. What's so funny about peace, 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:41.800 love and understand? I thought, no, no, no, this is 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:44.960 a really really good idea. Don't just let the title 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:50.280 do the work for you, and right, really simple verse 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.560 doesn't matter if his cliches about walking the wicked world, 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:57.159 searching for Pete light in the darkness, you know, and 0:22:57.200 --> 0:23:01.320 all that old nonsense, It doesn't matter that it'll The 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:05.200 title is really strong, the tune is strong. Don't mess 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:08.679 it up, you know, with some of your clever, clever nonsense. 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:15.960 That is an amazingly mature thing to do. And the 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:19.320 result is that that song has been covered by I 0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:24.679 don't know how many people. It's it's it almost feels 0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:27.680 like I really have had had nothing to do with it, 0:23:29.359 --> 0:23:32.360 because everybody knows it's never actually been a hit, but 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:35.800 everybody knows that song. Can you play for us now? 0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:39.359 Oh yeah, sure? I tend to do it in this 0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:42.480 sort of slow tempo, but once again, you know, I'm 0:23:42.520 --> 0:23:46.040 sorry I'm sorry about my croquy, crokey voice, but I'll 0:23:46.040 --> 0:23:50.120 do my best. It's beautiful. When you you tripped over 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:52.720 one word, you're probably expecting the crowd just to rise 0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:56.480 up and sing it back to you. Yes, come to 0:23:56.560 --> 0:24:00.320 your rescue. It had a huge effect on your career 0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:03.840 long after you rode out. Which is it? It made 0:24:03.880 --> 0:24:08.000 you financially independent. I suppose can you tell that story? 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:15.760 I think you're probably referring to the Bodyguard record. Yeah, 0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:19.880 it that that was a real, real stroke of luck. Yes, 0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:22.520 I was in the I was in the middle of 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:25.240 trying to figure out quite a lot of things. Really. 0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:28.320 I mean, my career as a sort of pop star 0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:33.280 was over. You know, I wasn't young anymore. And you 0:24:33.359 --> 0:24:36.119 can sort of tell, because I suppose because i'd been 0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:40.359 a record producer as well, and sort of yucked it 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:44.760 up in the in the boardroom, you know, with with people, 0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:47.040 you know, the people at the record company, as well 0:24:47.080 --> 0:24:51.800 as being an artist to myself, I'd seen both sides 0:24:51.840 --> 0:24:57.080 of it. I was very aware of when when the 0:24:57.160 --> 0:24:59.800 pub when you know, the signs of the public had 0:24:59.800 --> 0:25:04.120 got tired of my my act, you know, because I 0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:07.000 was tired of it as well. It was. It seemed 0:25:07.040 --> 0:25:10.560 really exhausted, and I was, you know, I was drinking 0:25:10.600 --> 0:25:13.800 and all all those cliches I was. I was drinking 0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:16.240 quite heavily and all that, and I was just exhausted. 0:25:16.280 --> 0:25:19.439