1 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Niccolo grew out of England's pub rock scene to 2 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: write some of the smartest songs of the New Wave era. 3 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 1: His classics like so It Goes, I Love the Sound 4 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: of Breaking Glass and Cruel to Be Kind stand up 5 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: with any of the best songs of the time and 6 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: He's still going. Nicolo's newest ep, Laid On Me, comes 7 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: out June fifth and shows he's still the strong songwriter 8 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: he always was. Nicolo established himself early by writing and 9 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: producing one of the UK's early punk singles, for the Damned, 10 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: produced Elvis Costello's first five albums, co founded one of 11 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: my favorite record labels, Stiff Records, and wrote the classic 12 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: What's So Funny About Peace, Love and Understanding. Nick talked 13 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: to Bruce Helum about all of this, plus what it 14 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: was like Marion. It's Johnny Cash's family and a hilarious 15 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: first encounter with Keith Richards. This is broken record liner 16 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Bruce 17 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: Hadlum and Nick Low from GSI Studios in Brooklyn. This 18 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: interview was tape on Nick was on tour with Love 19 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: Straight Jackets. So why don't we start with one of 20 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: your new songs. Oh okay, yeah, last night was the 21 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: last night of our tour. I've been on tour with 22 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: the Straight Jackets, so place. The song that you've recorded 23 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: with this is called Love Starvation. I'll do my best 24 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: to do. Can you tell me the inspiration for that song? Well, 25 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: I was doing some recording with the Straight Jackets in 26 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: New York City last year and we came back from 27 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: the studio. We'd had a pretty good day. We came 28 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: back from the studio and I just thought we needed 29 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: a song within that tempo that would that's that sort 30 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: of tempo, kind of Bobby full of four, Ritchie Valen's 31 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: kind of tempo, sort of sixties Holly Gully beat. You know. 32 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: I could hear them doing it. And when I got 33 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: back to the UK, I woke up one morning with 34 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: this title Love Starvation, which I thought was a really 35 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: really good title and I and it sort of wrote itself. 36 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: Do you write every day? Is that part of Europe? 37 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: I do. It's not always any good. In fact, mainly 38 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: it's not. I'm not terribly prolific, but I never stopped 39 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: writing stuff. But I because I've heard it before, I 40 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: get impatient with myself because I just I think I've 41 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: heard that that's no good. Oh yeah, there's more of 42 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: that old rubbish, is it? And then one day something 43 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 1: will come to mind that I haven't heard before, and 44 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: and I'll I sort of go into a kind of trance, 45 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: I suppose, and it might take a week or two, 46 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: or sometimes that it goes after a week or two 47 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: and I just sort of lose interest in it, or 48 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: but if it's any good, it'll come back. But I 49 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: go into a sort of a trance, and I fiddle 50 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: around with a fiddle around with it until it's suddenly finished, 51 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: and I think that I've written a cover song. On 52 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: The ones that I think are good are ones that 53 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: sound to me like not actually like an actual song 54 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: that I've ripped off, but it'll sound like I haven't 55 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: had anything to do with it. And those are the 56 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: ones that I think are good. If I hear my 57 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: little tricks and little fancies and things that you do, 58 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: if I hear that, I get really impatient with it, 59 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: and I don't like it. It's a very peculiar thing 60 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: writing songs, because you can't turn it on, neither can 61 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: you turn it off. And sometimes it well. When I 62 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: was younger, I used to. I used to really freak 63 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: if I if I couldn't write a song, you know, 64 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 1: if I hadn't done for a while. I used to 65 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: get really upset and then start forcing it, forcing it out. 66 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: And that's that's the worst thing you can possibly do. 67 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: So it's not forcing it up, but you still work 68 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: at it. Yeah, working at it is pleasurable, but forcing 69 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: it is unspeakable. Well I can. I'll give you an 70 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: example if you like. I'll play something which is just 71 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 1: a real work in progress. It's just something which has 72 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: got three bits. It's got three bits to it, and 73 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: it doesn't really make sense, but there's there's a there's 74 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: a few bits and pieces that I would say could 75 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: be good. It's the song is called I'm on Your Plane, 76 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: which is a weird title like I'm on your level 77 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: or something, you know, because it's got it's got possibilities. 78 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: But I but it doesn't really sort of make much 79 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: sense yet. So you'll try and come up with a 80 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: bridge or do you think you've distinct parts that aren't 81 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: fitting together? I think I think that the actual shape 82 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: of it. I think the tune is good. And there's 83 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,239 Speaker 1: three parts. There's an A, B and a c part, 84 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,119 Speaker 1: and they all seem to I probably wouldn't do any 85 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: I wouldn't probably wouldn't write any another part, but I 86 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: might juggle change change one of the part, or two 87 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: of the parts too, So they're quite they're a bit 88 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: different the second time they come around. That's how I 89 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: feel that one would go. And so you've always got 90 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 1: some of those you're working on. What's your hit rate? 91 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: If how many you say some things you just abandoned? 92 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: How many songs would you rate before you would have 93 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: an album's worth to say? Oh god, I probably. I 94 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: mean my songs are all pretty short. So an album's 95 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: worth is about eleven or twelve songs. I'd have to 96 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: write about thirty to get twelve songs that I like. Well, 97 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: something like that, because I always do a couple of covers, 98 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: at least a couple of covers almost my records. When 99 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: you were writing in early seventies and you were with 100 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: Brindsley Schwartz and you were you wrote a lot of 101 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: the songs that became your hits later on, was writing 102 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: the same back then? For you? It was? It was 103 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: when I hear that the early songs I wrote, I 104 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: can really hear a kid, you know, start starting to 105 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: feel his way, you know, my, my. The way I 106 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: always explain it is that, you know, we figured out 107 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: that in order to have any staying power, we had 108 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: to learn how to write songs. So a couple of 109 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: us were into it, you know, and you start off 110 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: writing your heroes, you know, catalog and then and it's 111 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: very very obvious that they you know where it's come from. 112 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: And then you'll move on to someone else and rewrite 113 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: their catalog, and someone else after that, and someone else 114 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: after that, until one day you'll be writing your latest 115 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: hero's catalog. But you'll put a bit of the first 116 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: person and a couple of bits from the third and 117 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: suddenly you'll find that it's not exactly like your latest hero. 118 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: It's got something else about it because you put these 119 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: other influences in. And that's the way it goes and 120 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: goes and goes, until suddenly you've got your own recipe, 121 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: you know, like a Hallett. Who was that first hero 122 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: for you, the one you were imitating. Well, I think 123 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: at the time I joined my first band and I 124 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: really got, you know, started to take it seriously. I 125 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: think it was probably the band I think I loved 126 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: I loved the band Crosby, Stills and Nash people like that. 127 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: No one too obscure, you know, they're all pretty mainstream. 128 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: It's only a game. When I got older, you know, 129 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: I started hearing I mean, i'd been a mod when 130 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: when I was a teenager and so, and we should 131 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: explain what does that mean that you're oh, well, it 132 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 1: was a sort of youth movement in the sixties, and 133 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: they they they were they had a sort of fashion, 134 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: you know, they liked wearing the right clothes and things 135 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: that we used to ride on scooters, you know, on 136 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: little Vespers and Lambrettas. And the music they listened to 137 00:08:54,840 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: was all American R and B music, motown and stacks, 138 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: stuff from from Memphis and Scars scar and blue beat 139 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: and reggae music. And so i'd been i'd been a mod, 140 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: So I thought that I knew quite a lot about 141 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: cool music. Um, you know how wrong I was. But 142 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: but you know, for a seventeen year old, you know, 143 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: I was pretty you know, I knew who you know, 144 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 1: Solomon Burke was, and Johnny Taylor and people like that, 145 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: but I wasn't writing like like that. That I thought 146 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: that was really really hard to do to write those 147 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: kind of songs, which is strange because they're simple. They're 148 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: really simple, and it's very those that's the hardest stuff 149 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 1: to do, is some a real simple direct message. What 150 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: was the first country music you liked, because that's a 151 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: big influence on Yeah, yeah it is. Well, um, that's 152 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: that's much easier to answer. My my father was in 153 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: the RAF and when I was a kid, I lived 154 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,599 Speaker 1: in the Middle East and wherever he was stationed in 155 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: the Middle East, or Germany and Cypress Jordan, and they 156 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: had I did a lot of listening to records then 157 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: the family record collection, and my mother was very musical, 158 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: and she had the you know, Sinatra and Nat King 159 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: Cole and you know the stuff South Pacific and guys 160 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 1: and dolls and all that stuff in a soundtracks. Well, 161 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: forget back that, the soundtracks and Broadway shows all that. 162 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: I had the King and I the King, and I 163 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: absolutely and so I loved all these records. But she 164 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: had in her collection very bizarrely, and she didn't know. 165 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: When I got older, I asked her, where did you 166 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: get those from? She had two ten inch tennessee Ernie 167 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: Ford records. I just thought, this is the greatest thing 168 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: I'd ever heard. He had this fantastic voice, you know, 169 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: which was like a Disney like a Disney cartoon character, 170 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: like I'm the King of the Swingers, you know, like 171 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: Louis form was it, Louis Primer did did that. But 172 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 1: he had this beautiful sort of baritone voice. But it 173 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,719 Speaker 1: wasn't just that that that his records were so swinging. 174 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: I didn't know it was country music. I could tell 175 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: it was sort of some sort of hillbilly thing going 176 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: on there, but they were playing with all these jazz 177 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: chords in and I didn't I didn't understand that that 178 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: was the sort of California version of country and western music. 179 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: I'd never heard anything like this, and it sounded like 180 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: that Tennessee in my seven year old mind, something like 181 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: Tennessee ear. And he was really cool. I could see 182 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: that because of what the clothes he was wearing on 183 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: the covers of these records. What was he wearing? California 184 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: casual pool were right. He was never he was never 185 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: a cowboy. He was if he did it was a 186 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: sort of stuff that real cowboys didn't quite wear, you know, 187 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: like a tasseled tailored tasseled swayed jacket or something like 188 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 1: that might have got himself beaten up on the rail, 189 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: but he looked so cool. He looked so cool. But 190 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: also it sounded to me like his mates who were 191 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: playing on this record were also really cool, which so 192 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: they made each other sound cool because they were hanging 193 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: out with Tennessee and obviously we're doing what he said, 194 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: But Tennessee was cool enough to know these people who 195 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: could make this fantastic noise. So that's the first thing 196 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: I heard that really really blew my mind, I thought. 197 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: And it was so swinging. And then what your first 198 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: instrument was? Was it a guitar? Well, I had a 199 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 1: little plastic sort of ukulele that my grandma bought me, 200 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: and then I got another that I sat on that 201 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: I think or somebody did anywhere, but I got another one. 202 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: It was like a banjo version, same sort of thing, 203 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: but it had an amaze using a little gadget that 204 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: you clipped onto the neck came separate and you just 205 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: you had elastic bands or something, and it had push 206 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: buttons on it and each where each button was it 207 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: had a little cord window. But you pressed the buttons 208 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: down and it made underneath it pressed the strings down 209 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: in the right place, so you effectively just playing the 210 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: So he gave me an ear for for how you 211 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: know which chords would go with, especially with simple songs 212 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: like Lonnie Donegan was the guy that from my generation 213 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: was the fellow that we all copied because he played 214 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 1: very simple songs. They were they were sort of lead 215 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 1: belly songs and you know, work songs and folk songs really, 216 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: but they had this great swinging, swinging drive to them 217 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: because they were jazz players who played on his records. 218 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: But they were very simple and very easy to learn. 219 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 1: And it wasn't too long before I thought, this is 220 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: a bit uncool pressing the buttons down. You know, I'm 221 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: going to figure out where my fingers actually go. You know, 222 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: how then did it become your dream to become a 223 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: musician from pressing a button on a plastic guitar. Well, 224 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: I didn't really want to become a musician more than 225 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: I wanted to be famous. That that was my first 226 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: drive and have lots of people telling me I was marvelous. 227 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: I didn't realize there was going to be any any 228 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: work involved in it. And you thought just the hair 229 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: and I had the head. That was a start yes, 230 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: and being you know, any kind of believing that that 231 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: I was any kind of artist was far from my 232 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: my thoughts and and still is really. You know, I 233 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: think of myself really as a as a as an 234 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: artisan sort more than an artist. You know, I make 235 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: artistic decis but I think I'm a hack really and 236 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: proud of it. You know. I'll i'll have a go 237 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: at doing anything jingles, you know, I'll have I'll have 238 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: a shot at anything. But I make I make sort 239 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: of artistic decisions along the way. Really. But and then 240 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: how did that start for you? Did you drop out 241 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: of school or you did? I went to quite a 242 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: good school, actually, but I wasn't. I wasn't very academically gifted. 243 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: I had a facility with for English and writing, and 244 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: I thought I might be a journalist actually, And I 245 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: can remember these well, these guys who have definitely been 246 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: in the war, in the Second World War war correspondents, 247 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: you know, they'd come out to these trouble spots and 248 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: they'd come and stay with us because my dad, who 249 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: was stationed commander of these places, he was quite high up, 250 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: would would make sure they had the right accreditations and 251 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: papers and all that stuff. Passes, you know, to go 252 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: to these areas and used to stay at the house. 253 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: And I really liked these guys, you know, there was 254 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: something about them. I liked the way they drank and smoked, 255 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: you know, and the way they talked and laughed with 256 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: each other, easy sort of camaraderie. Also their clothes as well. 257 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: I loved their clothes that they had well, very well worn, 258 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: you know, And I thought I wanted to be one 259 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: of those people. And I got this job at a 260 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: paper as editorial assistant, making tea, sweeping up, filing copy. 261 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: Occasionally they give me a movie at the local fleet pit. 262 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: I'd get that, I'd go down and review it. It 263 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: was a real break for someone like me, you know, 264 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: to get into and I've been there about six months, 265 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: I suppose, and I realized that I didn't have what 266 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: it took. These fellows were really fantast it was only 267 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: a local paper, but they were really good, and I 268 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: realized that I didn't really have what it took to 269 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: do that. My dreams of being in a in a 270 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: foxhole with a mud spattered remington, you know, wearing a 271 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: steel helmet with a cigar stub clamped in my teeth 272 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: you know, knocking out the copy, you know, with the 273 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: incoming incoming, I was just going to It was just 274 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: really ridiculous, you know, it was never going to happen. 275 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: And then I got a call from Brindsey Schwartz who said, 276 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: come and join my band. And you knew him from 277 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,719 Speaker 1: school from school. I went to school with him, yea. 278 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,959 Speaker 1: And then you started playing? When did the writing start? Um? 279 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: Fairly fairly soon after I joined again? I really messed 280 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: things up for them, really because when I joined, when 281 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: I joined the group, they were they were on Parlophone, 282 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: which was the Beatles label. In those days. Anyone really 283 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: who could knock out two or three chords and had 284 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: a kiss of drums got a record deal. It was very, 285 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: very very easy to get a record deal, but still 286 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: with Parlophone that was something else, that was the Beatles label. 287 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 1: And they got this deal. They didn't play on their 288 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 1: own records, which was very common then. They had session 289 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: people playing on the Compson. They on the on the record, 290 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: but they they they sang. And when I joined the group, 291 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: you know, I figured that I was way more hip 292 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: than than they were, and so we can't have this 293 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: and we've got to play on our own records, you 294 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: know this, And actually the records that they did with 295 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: the session men playing were sounded fantastic in but you 296 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: didn't know about the Monkeys back then, you thought exactly, 297 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: And so I said, no, no, we've got to we've 298 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: got to play our own stuff. And so then we've 299 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: we've very soon got fired as soon as we as 300 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: soon as we started playing on our own records. I thought. 301 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: After the Beatles, it was understood that musicians had to 302 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: play on their own records. That was part of their 303 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: appear that that didn't change. Well, the Beatles were you know, 304 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: this was nineteen sixty eight when I when I joined them, 305 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: The Beatles hadn't released their white album that then they 306 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: were still actually going you know, um, so it was 307 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: it was a it was a huge scandal in this 308 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: story broke not that our group had session member, that 309 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: any that most pop groups had session people playing on 310 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: their records. It was you know, people couldn't believe it. 311 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this quick break. We're back 312 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: with more of Bruce's conversation with Nick Lowe. But you 313 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: you had a period where you wrote a lot of 314 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: sort of your what would later become big hits for you, 315 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: you wrote so goes And that was really much later 316 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,239 Speaker 1: that the first. The first thing I wrote, which was 317 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: really good was, well, it was an original idea. As 318 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: I've I've said before because people have asked me about it, 319 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: is a song called What's So Funny about Peace, Loan 320 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: and Understanding? And I remember the day I had the 321 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: idea for it. I thought I couldn't believe it, that 322 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: I'd actually had an original idea that I hadn't come from. 323 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: What was the what was the genesis? I suppose that 324 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: the the the genesis of it was was it was 325 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: sort of funny. I was because the hippie dream was 326 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: sort of dying. I suppose this is about nineteen seventy one. 327 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 1: I thought of this, and the hippie dream was sort 328 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: of dying, and and people were starting, People who had 329 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: been hippies were started rediscovered alcohol, you know, and they're 330 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: rather embarrassed that they'd you know, dabbled with this this 331 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: thing and they were, you know, le deserting the sinking 332 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: ship in drow. And I suppose the idea for the 333 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: song was a you know, a die hard hippie saying 334 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: to all his followers or all the people who were 335 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: in his commune, you know, who are now leaving. Well, 336 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: you think I'm a you know, I'm an old has been. 337 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: But but what you can't deny, you know, you can't 338 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: deny that that peace, peace, love and understanding is that 339 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: is what we should all be looking for, you know. 340 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: And you're sniggering at it and laughing at it. But 341 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: what's so funny about when it comes down to it, 342 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: what's so funny about? That was the idea for the song, 343 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: and I thought, well, it's a bit of a mouthful, 344 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: but it's a really great title. What's so funny about peace, 345 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,239 Speaker 1: Love and understanding? Because because people did used to do that, 346 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, man, you know, do the do the peace sign, 347 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: you know as a you know, whole piece and love 348 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: man in this rather rather sort of annoying tone of voice, 349 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: you know, that they'd adopt. So it was, it was 350 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: it was a sort of funny song really about peace. 351 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: The most cynical people person you can enjoy. But the 352 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: but the surprising thing, looking back now from from this distance, 353 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: is that I can remember also having a very mature thought, 354 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,239 Speaker 1: which when I think back to how I was in 355 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: those days, I didn't have a single mature thought, you know, 356 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: going for me at all. But in this case I did, 357 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: and that was not to mess it up by trying 358 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: to explain about an old hippie, you know, and you 359 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: know I'm just an old hippie. What's so funny about peace, 360 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: love and understand? I thought, no, no, no, this is 361 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: a really really good idea. Don't just let the title 362 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: do the work for you, and right, really simple verse 363 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if his cliches about walking the wicked world, 364 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: searching for Pete light in the darkness, you know, and 365 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: all that old nonsense, It doesn't matter that it'll The 366 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: title is really strong, the tune is strong. Don't mess 367 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: it up, you know, with some of your clever, clever nonsense. 368 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: That is an amazingly mature thing to do. And the 369 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: result is that that song has been covered by I 370 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: don't know how many people. It's it's it almost feels 371 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: like I really have had had nothing to do with it, 372 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: because everybody knows it's never actually been a hit, but 373 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: everybody knows that song. Can you play for us now? 374 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sure? I tend to do it in this 375 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: sort of slow tempo, but once again, you know, I'm 376 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: sorry I'm sorry about my croquy, crokey voice, but I'll 377 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 1: do my best. It's beautiful. When you you tripped over 378 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: one word, you're probably expecting the crowd just to rise 379 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: up and sing it back to you. Yes, come to 380 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: your rescue. It had a huge effect on your career 381 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: long after you rode out. Which is it? It made 382 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: you financially independent. I suppose can you tell that story? 383 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: I think you're probably referring to the Bodyguard record. Yeah, 384 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: it that that was a real, real stroke of luck. Yes, 385 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: I was in the I was in the middle of 386 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: trying to figure out quite a lot of things. Really. 387 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: I mean, my career as a sort of pop star 388 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: was over. You know, I wasn't young anymore. And you 389 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: can sort of tell, because I suppose because i'd been 390 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: a record producer as well, and sort of yucked it 391 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: up in the in the boardroom, you know, with with people, 392 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: you know, the people at the record company, as well 393 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: as being an artist to myself, I'd seen both sides 394 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: of it. I was very aware of when when the 395 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: pub when you know, the signs of the public had 396 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 1: got tired of my my act, you know, because I 397 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: was tired of it as well. It was. It seemed 398 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: really exhausted, and I was, you know, I was drinking 399 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: and all all those cliches I was. I was drinking 400 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: quite heavily and all that, and I was just exhausted. 401 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 1: I didn't like my records, and you know what I 402 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: was doing anyway, I got myself, I got myself sort 403 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 1: of cleaned up, and then I started when my head cleared, 404 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: you know, I started to think, well, how right, how 405 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: can I move things along now? Because I'm going to 406 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 1: get older and I don't feel like I've done anything 407 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: really really good yet that I want to be able 408 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: to say I've written at least half a dozen really 409 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: really good songs, and I don't think I have yet. 410 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 1: I think I've got it in me too, But the 411 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 1: drink and the late nights and all the rest of 412 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 1: it have taken their toll, and that's spoilt a lot stuff. 413 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: So I've got I'm now I'm going to develop a 414 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: new act know and and so I did, and I 415 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: came up with this pretty good record of best record 416 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: I'd made for a while, called The Impossible Bird. Made 417 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: it on a real shoestring budget, with a lot of 418 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: called in a lot of favors, and I was, you know, 419 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 1: even so I was effectively broke, and all of a 420 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: sudden I got I knew that they were going to 421 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: use this song in a movie, and I was pleased. 422 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: You know, there'd be a few a few dollars in it, 423 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: not bad, actually a nice payday, few grand And it's 424 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: come out and it's sold, and curses Steigers, who you know, 425 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:45,120 Speaker 1: was a big pop star. Then he'd recorded this song, 426 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: Piece of an Understanding, and this movie came out. It 427 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: was a big hit, and all of a sudden it's 428 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: on that there's a soundtrack. Album sold three three million, 429 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: four million, five million, And when it had sold about 430 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: eight million, I thought I'd better get in touch with 431 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: old Curtis, you know, and say what happened? You know, 432 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, thanks very much. I definitely owe 433 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: you a drink here. As far as I know, I've 434 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: never actually seen the film. I feel as if I have, 435 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: because I've tried to watch it a few times, but 436 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: I'm not even sure if it's actually in the in 437 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: the film. If it is, it's playing on a car 438 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: radio somewhere in the background. But anyways, it's on the 439 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: soundtrack road which I think ended up selling forty million. 440 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: It did eight million. That was just early days. It 441 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: went up and up and up and up until even 442 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: though I got I don't know, I don't even know 443 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: how much, less than a cent, you know, I don't 444 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 1: know how what my share was, but it was after 445 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 1: it goes up there, you know, to those quantities. You 446 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,959 Speaker 1: do the math, as they say. And I got this 447 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: succession of massive checks through and they could not have 448 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: come at a better time for me, because not only 449 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,239 Speaker 1: was I able to pay my boys, you know, who 450 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: had done all this great work for me for nothing 451 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: pretty much, I could pay them. I could go into 452 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,719 Speaker 1: the United States, where I still had this fabulous audience 453 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: but but they were waiting for something to happen. I 454 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: could go and see them, show them this new style 455 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: that I wanted, this slightly more grown up style. I 456 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: wanted to show them that would suit my advancing years 457 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: in the pop business, because up to that point, there 458 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: weren't that many people who have advances in pop music. 459 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: Now you can't move for them. There's plenty of them. 460 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: The buggers won't get out of the way. Yeah, but 461 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: they're still doing everything they did when they were twenty three. Yeah, Well, 462 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: I wanted to avoid that, you know, because as I thought, 463 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: this is that'll be just two undignified you know, and 464 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: preaching to the converted and all that. I wanted to 465 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: bring a new, younger audience along as well as the 466 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: old people, you know, because I like Johnny Cash's audience. 467 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: I thought his audiences were fantastic. He had all age groups, 468 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: so all digging it. But anyway, I was able with 469 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: this money, this windfall, to take the boys over, to 470 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: have a decent bus for us to tour in the US, 471 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: and to stay at decent hotels, not top of the range, 472 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: but decently we wouldn't get our stuff stolen, you know. 473 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: And also to make another album on the proceeds of it, 474 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: which also did well, and dig my Mood, yeah, and 475 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: to pay off pay off some debts, you know. And 476 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: of course once people see see you've got something going on, 477 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: you know, then you're the initial windfall from the bodyguard. 478 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: You spend all that, but it's suddenly there's everything, Everything 479 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: get starts getting groovyer for you, and people start coming 480 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: looking for songs, and so I got a few covers 481 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: off those those records and things, so and that really 482 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: allowed me to lift off, you know, and probably is 483 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: the reason why I'm I'm a fortunate enough to be 484 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: sitting here talking to you today. I don't ask you 485 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: a little bit about producing because as you became well 486 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: known as a songwriter and with Brindley Schwartz and then 487 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: with rock Pile, you you became the in house producer 488 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: at Steph. Yeah, and I don't know, I mean the 489 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: most famously you worked with Elvis Costello and Graham Parker. 490 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: I don't know what in what order you worked with them, 491 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: who you worked with? First? To tell me, first of all, 492 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: how did how did you work with Graham Parker? How 493 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: did you well? Graham? Yeah, Well, when Graham formed his group, 494 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: the Rumor they was formed first, First of all, he 495 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: was managed by an ex manager of the group that 496 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: I'd be in, Brindsley Schwartz Um. He also had two 497 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: members of Brindsey Schwartz in in the group, plus the 498 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: other guitar player had been had had worked for us, 499 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: so he was he used to be a He was 500 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: a roadie for the Brindsley's for quite a long while 501 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: and a very good friend of the band Martin Belmont. 502 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: But I was really pleased because I thought Graham was 503 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: so good. And what was it about his songs that 504 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: you liked so much for us? Well, they they they 505 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: they sounded really mature, you know, they were really mature songs, 506 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: and they were you know, he'd clearly been listening to 507 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: really good stuff. You could see his influences and things. 508 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: But he had these, you know, really great influences, I thought, 509 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: because they were the same influences as I had, you know, 510 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: so of course I thought he was he had excellent taste. 511 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: But they were they were a very they were very 512 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: good musics. They had a rate rhythm section, as well 513 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: as Steve Goldingham and Andy Boden, now who I got 514 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: to play on a few of my records as well. 515 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: And then I think after that, I think Elvis Costello 516 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: came next. He was signed to Stiff originally as a writer, 517 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: but after they listened to his tape in depth, you know, 518 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: they said, well, actually this guy's a bit he's a 519 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: bit more fantastic than that. So I did you think 520 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: that as well? No, I didn't really I knew him. 521 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: I knew him decla. I knew him as as Declin McManus, 522 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: And I didn't know him because he used to come 523 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: and see Brindley Schwartz. Whenever we played in Liverpool, he 524 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: used to or up the northwest of England. He would 525 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: come along and we noticing because he looked so unusual. 526 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: One day, actually we were playing at the Cavern Club, 527 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: were famously the Beatles started out. We were playing at 528 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: the Cavern and we were having a drink in the 529 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: pub across the road. Both are gone now, of course, 530 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: both the Cavern and the pub the Grapes, I think 531 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: it was called Across the Road. And before our show 532 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: and in Caane, this fellow I thought, I said, look, 533 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: there's that there's that guy who comes to see us play. 534 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: I'm going to go and buy him a drink, you know, 535 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: I think probably it's a time, you know. And he 536 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: says that he approached me at the bar and brought 537 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: me a drink, and I don't know, but either way, 538 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: that's where we met for the first time. And he 539 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: had a group in the pub rock scene that was 540 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: going on in London at that time. The Brinsleys were 541 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: in and Graham and the Rumor, and well Graham sort 542 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 1: of was in it. They were a bit too good 543 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: for that really, But Dire Straits actually were a pub 544 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: rock band as well. Where are they now? No idea? 545 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: And so I got I got the job. To start with, 546 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: I was definitely in charge. You know, look here, kid, 547 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: you know you do this and do that. And on 548 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 1: his first album, that's the one and only record I 549 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: did with Obviously I did five or six albums I 550 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,879 Speaker 1: can't remember now, but that was the one and only 551 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: one where nominally I was in I was in charge, 552 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: you know. I suppose I had the last word, but 553 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 1: it really didn't take long before I realized that he 554 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: was really was something else, and I'd be very foolish 555 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: to override him. You know. Sometimes he come up with 556 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: these really kind of crackpot ideas, you know, and I 557 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 1: NA Nana, and then I, as I was about to 558 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: say no, I suddenly found it turning into yes. And 559 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: next thing I know, I was tugging my four lock 560 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: as they say, you know, say good morning, mister Costella, 561 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: what would you like to do today? And so our 562 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: roles reversed and I was very much you know, he 563 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 1: all the shots and I and I enabled him to 564 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: do it. We'll be right back with more from Nicolo 565 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:13,800 Speaker 1: after the break. We're back with the rest of Bruce's 566 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: interview with Nicolo. I want to talk more about songwriting. 567 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 1: So can we hear another new song? Yeah? Okay, yeah, 568 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: you played a beautiful song called Blue one Blue, Oh, 569 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: I can do that. That was the one I was 570 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: thinking of. Yeah, I'd love to hear that. Okay, okay, 571 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: here we go. Can you tell me about the writing 572 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: of that song. I can't really know. I just sort 573 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 1: of made it up when I was on holiday in 574 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: Italy and just sort of was sitting around in the 575 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: in the heat, in the dark and in the one 576 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: afternoon and just messing around with a guitar, and that, 577 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,399 Speaker 1: you know, simple little chord called figure came came out. 578 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 1: But I seem to be able to get it to 579 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: roll into the other parts, you know. That that was 580 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: it will go in and out of time. You never 581 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: kind of know what key it's in either. It sort 582 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: of starts off in one key and it sort of 583 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 1: changes into another and then changes back again. And and 584 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: this's this sort of rolling thing. I thought was quite interesting, 585 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 1: and I thought blue on Blue is a pretty good title, 586 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: which I kept on. I was making noises to start with, 587 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: like you doo blue move blue bloom, you know, and 588 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 1: it turns into you find yourself same Blue on Blue, 589 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: and then and then you'll think, what are you saying? 590 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: Blue on blue? That's pretty actually pretty good, and it 591 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: just sort of felt right. And it's funny you mentioned 592 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: the rolling in that song. When you go into the 593 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: I guess it's a bridge part. There's this um tension 594 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: until you go back into the kind of the I'm 595 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: ever so pleased that you make a comment like that. 596 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 1: Nothing cheers me up more than to hear well, it's 597 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: almost it's almost a little nervous. I get a little 598 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: nervous in the bridge waiting for it to come back, 599 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: and then it loops in and I think you just 600 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,879 Speaker 1: do the second half of the chord changes at that point. 601 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,919 Speaker 1: That's right, Yes, yeah, just a huge relief comes over 602 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: me when I'm listening to that, and thank God he's back. 603 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: It's also one of those it's one of those chord progressions. 604 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: It could just go on forever. Yeah, yes, it's There's 605 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 1: there's nothing very original about it. It's all except the 606 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: way that the structure takes it. Well, it feels like 607 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,799 Speaker 1: it's still going. I think some Van Morrison songs are 608 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: like that. It's like it's going all the time. We 609 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: just dip in and listen to three minutes of it 610 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: and then we dip out. But it's still going. You 611 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,400 Speaker 1: know you didn't. Now well, I must say, it's a 612 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: it's a song that I really really like doing and 613 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: and and especially doing with the with this straight jackets 614 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: what they've they've brought it, brought it up. You know, 615 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 1: it sounds really cool when they do it. You've been 616 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: very generous. There are two things I do want to 617 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: ask you about before you go. We talked about country 618 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: music earlier. In your great love for country music, you 619 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: then married into country music royalty. What was it like? 620 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 1: This is the music you loved, and then suddenly June 621 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: Carter is your mother in law and Johnny Cash is here, 622 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 1: I guess your stepfather in law. What was that like? 623 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:25,839 Speaker 1: It was? It was unbelievably great. I couldn't believe my luck, 624 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 1: even though I mean, they were so they were so 625 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 1: kind to me, but both both of Johnny and June 626 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: I absolutely adored them. But still it was Johnny Cash. 627 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: You know, I used that every time I met him. 628 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: There was a good fifteen minutes when I was with 629 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: him that I could barely speak because he was so charismatic. 630 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 1: It almost sucked the air out of the room. The 631 00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: only other person I've met like that was was Solemn 632 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 1: and Burke. But John had this effect on me every 633 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: time i'd meet him until you know, as I say, 634 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 1: about ten or fifteen minutes had passed him. Then he 635 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: was such a lovely guy. I've got, you know, tons 636 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 1: of stories I could tell about him, including him the 637 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: time that he and June came to stay with me 638 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: and Carlin in when we lived in Shepherd's Bush, which 639 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,399 Speaker 1: is now quite a smart part of London, but back 640 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: then was funky, you know. It was dead funk as 641 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,760 Speaker 1: an Irish part of town, and of course the Irish 642 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 1: loved John and June, and John wouldn't go anywhere out 643 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,360 Speaker 1: without being dressed up as Johnny Cash. You know. He 644 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,719 Speaker 1: didn't know there's no sweats and baseball cap pulled down 645 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: lower andything like that. He had the black frock coat, 646 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: the boots and everything. He was high. I'm Johnny Cash, 647 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: you know, and walking out in Shepherd's Bush with him 648 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: and June in a sort of in coat with a 649 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: mink hat on and some incredible jeweled brooch, you know, 650 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: and saying hi to everyone. Oh, my god. It was terrific, 651 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: so funny and cheered everybody up. You know, all these 652 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: Irish people say, oh Johnny, what about chair, you know, 653 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 1: shouting at him. It was great and and getting up 654 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: in the morning. We had we had a nice little house. 655 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,719 Speaker 1: I mean it's it was a funky little house then 656 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: but now it's probably the house is probably worth about 657 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: four million because the area has gone right. And Johnny 658 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 1: cast actually belonged to Tony Viscontia. I bought it from 659 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: Tony Visconti. He used to live there. And did you 660 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 1: ever do you ever talk music with Johnny Cast? Yes, 661 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: I was, That's what I was going to say, actually, 662 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 1: because um, he he liked nothing better when especially in 663 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: this house of ours in in in Sheba's Bush. I 664 00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,959 Speaker 1: can remember on occasion when he was such a music 665 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:05,799 Speaker 1: fan and we'd opened a bottle of wine and you know, 666 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 1: have a few glasses of wine and we get start 667 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,759 Speaker 1: playing record. He played records to me. He played me stuff. 668 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: He turned me onto things like furling Husky and um, 669 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 1: Johnny Horton, who was who was a good friend of him. 670 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,000 Speaker 1: You know, he played me fantastic stuff and he was 671 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: like a fan, you know, he oh listeners listening to 672 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:26,879 Speaker 1: this one, you know, and trying to couldn't quite get 673 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:28,879 Speaker 1: in the groove, especially after we'd had three or four 674 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:34,680 Speaker 1: glasses of wine, you know, girt, you know, scratching the record. Um, oh, 675 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: this is fantastic, this is great. You know. He just 676 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:42,360 Speaker 1: just like a music fan does, and you'd forget that 677 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 1: it's Johnny Cash and you're listening to records with with 678 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 1: John Now, I mean, I just think it's just such 679 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,919 Speaker 1: a fantastic memory, you know. But back then I sort 680 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: of took it for granted. I can't I can't believe 681 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,919 Speaker 1: that I did. But he was a super super guy 682 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:03,359 Speaker 1: and m and I still miss him. I still do 683 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:08,400 Speaker 1: think about him all the time. And June, Yeah, I wonderful. 684 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: What was she like? Oh? Beautiful, funny, kind, never a 685 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: sort of a bottomless well of patience that she was with, 686 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 1: especially with John, who was quite a hat could could 687 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: be quite a handful a time. I never saw him 688 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,840 Speaker 1: when he was mean, you know, and I believe he 689 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,279 Speaker 1: was mean. I never ever saw him mean, but I 690 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 1: saw him when he was out of sorts sometimes, you know. 691 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:40,680 Speaker 1: But he was always really funny and lovely. That's a 692 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: scary father in law. Well, yeah, law, I suppose it was. Yeah, 693 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,640 Speaker 1: I suppose it was. One more story which I've read about, 694 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,480 Speaker 1: but it talks about this collision between sort of the 695 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,319 Speaker 1: world you inhabited with Rock Pile and Prinsley Schwartz in 696 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 1: the much bigger world, which is and I don't know 697 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:02,800 Speaker 1: if it was the first time, but the time you 698 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: met Keith Richards, which which I've read about it and 699 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,600 Speaker 1: just seems completely ridiculous to me. So could you tell 700 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,400 Speaker 1: a little bit of that. It was ridiculous, Yes, it 701 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 1: was when the Rock Pile really were We could we 702 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,160 Speaker 1: could have, should have would have made it, you know, 703 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:26,239 Speaker 1: we were really poised to be very successful, indeed, but 704 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,799 Speaker 1: we were We were inherently a lazy band. Played this 705 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,280 Speaker 1: basically we played the same set for three glorious years, 706 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,440 Speaker 1: you know. But there was those things that made people 707 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:39,319 Speaker 1: like us in a way, the fact they could see 708 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,319 Speaker 1: we were having such a laugh. You know, we didn't 709 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,360 Speaker 1: take it seriously. You know, we were having such a 710 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,359 Speaker 1: great time. We had a little run of shows at 711 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 1: the bottom Line that much loved and lamented bottom Line, 712 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,839 Speaker 1: and we were playing there in the in the middle 713 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:55,640 Speaker 1: of this little run of shows. It was the night 714 00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: after Keith got out of jail in Canada, and for 715 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,400 Speaker 1: some reason this room we should explain. I think it 716 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 1: was heroin possession or some drug thing. I couldn't possibly 717 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,759 Speaker 1: comment on that, Okay, something you know that Keith had 718 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:13,839 Speaker 1: got up to. I think it was something like that, 719 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:18,360 Speaker 1: but we'll film the RCMP. I think it's determined pretty 720 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:22,839 Speaker 1: well documented anyway. But anyway, he got out of jail 721 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 1: and for some reason he decided to come and see 722 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:30,440 Speaker 1: rock Pile. Why I know not. It was the day after. 723 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,759 Speaker 1: It was the day after he got out of jail. 724 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,120 Speaker 1: I'm sure I could think of plenty of things I'd 725 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 1: rather do after I got out. You got him through 726 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 1: that experience. I'd like to think I helped anyway. Of course, 727 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 1: he couldn't believe it, you know that he'd want to come. 728 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,040 Speaker 1: We heard this rumor, you know, and we were in 729 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,319 Speaker 1: the little cramped dressing rooms that were the back, the 730 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:59,120 Speaker 1: back of the bottom line, and in walked Barbara sharone 731 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:04,480 Speaker 1: well well known publicist and writer at that time. Anyway, 732 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,759 Speaker 1: she walked into the dress room, she said, I'm here. 733 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,200 Speaker 1: I'm here with Keith, and we'd we'd sort of heard 734 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,560 Speaker 1: us a bit of a rump us out in the audience. 735 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 1: You know, they were very very excitable audience because they 736 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,520 Speaker 1: knew what they were getting. But when this word went 737 00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 1: round that Keith Redger was coming down, I mean you 738 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 1: could feel it coming through the walls, you know, people 739 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,120 Speaker 1: were so excited. Anyway, Keith, she said, can I bring him? 740 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:32,719 Speaker 1: You know, can he come and play? Do you think 741 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,920 Speaker 1: of course he can? Yeah. But the funny thing was 742 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: that we were all keen, except for Edmonds. Because Edmunds 743 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,719 Speaker 1: had been in his the top band in Wales in 744 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,680 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties, like nineteen sixty one sixties. So they're 745 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:50,520 Speaker 1: in the top band in Wales and along comes this 746 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,040 Speaker 1: band from London to do a little tour with them 747 00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:58,040 Speaker 1: through the Welsh through the Welsh valleys, and they're doing 748 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,680 Speaker 1: the same sort of music, Chuck Berry music, you know, 749 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:05,080 Speaker 1: and it's it's the Stones and and Edmonds said, oh 750 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,080 Speaker 1: they were rubbish, you know. So Edmonds wasn't pleased, and 751 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,200 Speaker 1: he was all for saying, oh no, I don't want 752 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,960 Speaker 1: him in here, no, no, tell him to tell the 753 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,680 Speaker 1: clear off. And we were, you know, really keen, or 754 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,840 Speaker 1: it was almost impossible not to be carried along with this. 755 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:24,759 Speaker 1: It was overpowering, you know, the audience expectation. So you're 756 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:26,520 Speaker 1: on stage, You're looking back and forth at the two 757 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,160 Speaker 1: of them, hoping it's not a fight or they just 758 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:34,120 Speaker 1: go well. I don't think Keith could care less, you know, 759 00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,759 Speaker 1: but but Edmonds just glowered at him all night, you know. 760 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,680 Speaker 1: But he started, you know, he he got on stage, 761 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,000 Speaker 1: he started turning up is the wrong amp? You know, 762 00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,920 Speaker 1: we had our amps and say it's quite squashed. And 763 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,400 Speaker 1: I suddenly found my my I was playing bass, you know, 764 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,200 Speaker 1: and suddenly the bass got louder and louder and louder, 765 00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,279 Speaker 1: and then I thought, what the hell's happening here, you know, 766 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:59,400 Speaker 1: and then super twangy, you know, waning wing, and then 767 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,400 Speaker 1: it sounded really deep like reggae bass is a woom boom. 768 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,040 Speaker 1: And I look around in Teith is trying to adjust 769 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,160 Speaker 1: his own guitar, but he's on my knobs, you know, 770 00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:14,160 Speaker 1: adjusting my man. So it was understand why he wasn't 771 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,560 Speaker 1: getting louder, and he couldn't understand his he couldn't understand 772 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,440 Speaker 1: why he was he was turning everything up, you know. 773 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,920 Speaker 1: So it was I mean, he tried to stay on 774 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 1: with us, you know, because we just pressed on, you know, 775 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,760 Speaker 1: we'd tried to get him off, you know, the enemy 776 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:34,160 Speaker 1: right thing, Keith Richard, Thank you Keith, you know, and 777 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,359 Speaker 1: he wasn't going anywhere, you know, he just stood there 778 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:41,520 Speaker 1: sort of swaying and forwards and and uh didn't know 779 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,000 Speaker 1: any of your songs? Could he He had to go, yeah, 780 00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,600 Speaker 1: he had to go, but it was it was really 781 00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:51,080 Speaker 1: really hopeless and the and he got old pretty quick. 782 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,640 Speaker 1: You know, you could tell that the the the audience 783 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,960 Speaker 1: weren't digging it nearly as much as they were when 784 00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,520 Speaker 1: he stepped on this day songs? Did he? Did he 785 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:05,560 Speaker 1: stay for I think about three maybe maybe four? And 786 00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,560 Speaker 1: then we had a we had a tour manager who 787 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,239 Speaker 1: had a real sort of English sort of manner sort 788 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:14,360 Speaker 1: of oh, oh really is could I possibly could do 789 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,000 Speaker 1: you mind? Awfully? If I had? It was very very 790 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,440 Speaker 1: you know, he had that corny English thing, you know, 791 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:25,480 Speaker 1: going jeeves sort of thing. And he eventually I won't 792 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,759 Speaker 1: tell you what Edmund's actually said, to call him out 793 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:32,680 Speaker 1: and and and tell him and get Keith off. But 794 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:36,439 Speaker 1: it wasn't very polite. And there was this great sight 795 00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:40,160 Speaker 1: of our tour manager did sort of taking him gently 796 00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,040 Speaker 1: by the arm, you know, and just leading him whilst 797 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,279 Speaker 1: taking his guitar off him and putting it, you know, 798 00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,440 Speaker 1: putting it away, and just leading him gently off the 799 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,000 Speaker 1: stage where which you know, which I'm sure he was 800 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,680 Speaker 1: quite pleased to. But they were the crowd I seem 801 00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:57,880 Speaker 1: to remember. The crowd was actually not too bad. I 802 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,399 Speaker 1: mean they they I think they realized that he wasn't 803 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,799 Speaker 1: really in any condition to do it, but they've given 804 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,880 Speaker 1: him a nice clap. But it was so such a 805 00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,680 Speaker 1: weird night. And have you seen him since, Keith? Yes, No, 806 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,200 Speaker 1: he was he there when you finished? Was he just 807 00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:19,839 Speaker 1: did he? No? It wasn't backstage? No, oh no, he'd 808 00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,759 Speaker 1: gone by the time by the time we got off. No, 809 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,200 Speaker 1: that didn't surprise me at all. It was you know, 810 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:29,200 Speaker 1: quite beastly in there, and and of course the entourage 811 00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:32,440 Speaker 1: that he had with him or you know, taking up 812 00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,640 Speaker 1: quite a lot of room. Dave Emmons was pretty he 813 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,759 Speaker 1: was delighted. Yeah, oh boy, we had a laugh about that. 814 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,960 Speaker 1: But yeah, it was a great It's one of those 815 00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,680 Speaker 1: things is a great experience in retrospect. Had it has 816 00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,600 Speaker 1: been a good story. Thank you so much for everything. Well, 817 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,160 Speaker 1: I've taken so much of your time. It had been 818 00:49:54,200 --> 00:50:01,240 Speaker 1: really generous. It's been a pleasure. Will thank you. Thanks 819 00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,040 Speaker 1: to Nick Lowe for playing for us and talking to 820 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,040 Speaker 1: Bruce about his creative process and career. Be sure to 821 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,760 Speaker 1: check out Broken Record podcast dot com for a playlist 822 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,279 Speaker 1: full of Nick Rose songs as well as some of 823 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,480 Speaker 1: our favorite songs that he's produced over the years. You 824 00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,520 Speaker 1: can also subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot 825 00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,520 Speaker 1: com slash broken Record Podcast. Broken Record is produced to 826 00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:25,200 Speaker 1: help from Jason Gambrell, me Lobell, Leo Rose, and Martin 827 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:29,280 Speaker 1: Gonzalez Pushman Industries. Our theme music is by Kenny Beats. 828 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,720 Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond. Thanks for listening.