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Speaker 1: The Black Effect is five years strong, and I am

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Speaker 1: so happy to be here and celebrating.

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Speaker 2: But we're just getting started.

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Speaker 1: Just like today's episode, Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast

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Speaker 1: where we live at the intersection of sports, politics, and culture.

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Speaker 1: Our purpose reveal the common threads that bind them all.

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Speaker 1: So what's happening in women's basketball right now is what

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Speaker 1: we've been trying.

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Speaker 2: To get to for almost thirty years.

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Speaker 1: From the stadiums where athletes break barriers and set records.

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Speaker 1: Caitlin Quark broke the all time single game assists record.

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Speaker 2: This is crazy for rookies to be doing.

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Speaker 1: Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms

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Speaker 1: and the community we create. And each episode we'll sit

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Speaker 1: down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics because at

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Speaker 1: the core of it all, how we see one issue

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Speaker 1: shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Carrie Champion. Hey everybody, Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: Naked Sports. Appreciate you all for being here. I am

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Speaker 1: excited about today's podcast for very many reasons. I am

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Speaker 1: going to one just letting you know, recommend a series

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Speaker 1: for y'all to watch. We always need content. My best

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Speaker 1: friend Kendrick and I we do this thing. We get

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Speaker 1: on the phone with each other and we're like, where's

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Speaker 1: the content. We are such a spoiled nation right because

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Speaker 1: of streaming. We always want something good to watch. So

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Speaker 1: we have a really good series, which I'm going to

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Speaker 1: tell you about that. But I'm also going to give

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Speaker 1: you what I'd like to do, you know, an update.

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Speaker 2: Family.

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Speaker 1: You all have shown up for me in so many

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Speaker 1: wonderful ways. I talked about losing my grandmother on the

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Speaker 1: podcast last week and the messages were overwhelming, the phone

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Speaker 1: calls that what do you need? And I thought to myself,

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Speaker 1: I did not know that I had such a deep community,

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Speaker 1: whether it be people I know or don't know, everyone

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Speaker 1: is so generous. And it's just another reminder, at least

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Speaker 1: to me that no matter how I feel about the

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Speaker 1: world that we live in, or what I think of people.

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Speaker 2: In general, I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: I am learning every day that the compassion of the

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Speaker 1: everyday citizen, the empathy, the hearts are still there. We

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Speaker 1: still care. We haven't lost our way. Love to all

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Speaker 1: those who've reached out to me. Sorry for those I

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Speaker 1: haven't responded back to right away, but I'm really really grateful,

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Speaker 1: and I said to a friend of mine that I

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Speaker 1: am learning to do this dance with grief. It is

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Speaker 1: a very tricky dance. The lady the lady of grief

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Speaker 1: is tricky. It ebbs and it flows. As I've mentioned,

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Speaker 1: so some days are really really amazing and then some

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Speaker 1: days are really really hard. All still fresh because it's

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Speaker 1: only been a couple of weeks. However, I think that

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Speaker 1: I am more transitioning to the space of I feel

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Speaker 1: her watching over me, and I also feel that grief

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Speaker 1: is a shared experience. It gives us community, it makes

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Speaker 1: you more human. I'm relating to people differently.

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Speaker 2: I'm also I'm.

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Speaker 1: Also finding that things that bother me don't really matter anymore,

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Speaker 1: and that is because what matters is the heart, things

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Speaker 1: of the heart. So I'm really grateful. That's all I

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Speaker 1: want to say. To the family of Naked Sports, to

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Speaker 1: my friends, to my chosen family, to my family in general.

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Speaker 1: And then in the process, as I mentioned earlier, everyone's

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Speaker 1: recommending shows and I found, with the help of my producer,

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Speaker 1: jac quis a wonderful show which you all have probably

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Speaker 1: seen Washington Black on Hulu or you've heard of it.

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Speaker 1: At least it is a sterling K. Brown project, but

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Speaker 1: actually the showrunner and writer is a wonderful gentleman who

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Speaker 1: is on the podcast today. His name is Helen Hines,

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Speaker 1: and Selwyn Hines has an amazing story, a beautiful arc.

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Speaker 1: Where he started in his career and where he is

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Speaker 1: currently is wonderful to show that you can still do

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Speaker 1: it no matter what.

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Speaker 2: I guess.

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Speaker 1: At the highest point of his career, when he was

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Speaker 1: in his early twenties, he was the editor in chief

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Speaker 1: of a magazine called The Source.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you all remember that.

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Speaker 1: It was a hip hop magazine and it was The Source,

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Speaker 1: and there was this and I remember it like it

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Speaker 1: was yesterday. You can even find it on YouTube. There

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Speaker 1: were the Source Awards, and those were the infamous awards

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Speaker 1: where we knew that East Coast versus West Coast was

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Speaker 1: a real thing. East Coast rappers didn't like West Coast

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Speaker 1: rappers and vice versa. Shug Knight, the aforementioned Shug Knight,

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Speaker 1: was not in jail and he went on stage and

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Speaker 1: he was like talking mad trash about Diddy. He was like,

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Speaker 1: if you don't want your producer dancing in your videos

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Speaker 1: and hopping around in your videos literally talking about Diddy

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Speaker 1: come to death Row. It was just it was crazy.

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Speaker 1: You'll never see anything like it. It should be a

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Speaker 1: reality show. Nevertheless, today on Naked Sports, not only are

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Speaker 1: we going to talk about that great TV show Washington Black,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about that moment in hip hop and

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Speaker 1: Selwyn was there to literally document it all because he

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Speaker 1: was the editor in chief. And I thought that was

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Speaker 1: just a beautiful way to start today's episode, because not

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Speaker 1: only do we see this man who is now writing

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Speaker 1: movies and really great television shows, he started off literally

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Speaker 1: as a writer for hip hop.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look at that.

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Speaker 3: You can start here and move there and you never

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Speaker 3: know where your career.

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Speaker 2: Will take you.

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Speaker 1: And I needed that inspiration as well. So I hope

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Speaker 1: you enjoyed today's podcast. I did, and again, family, I

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Speaker 1: just appreciate y'all so much, so thanks for listening to

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Speaker 1: Naked Sports.

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Speaker 4: My name is Selwyn Safe, who heines. I am a

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Speaker 4: screenwriter and producer in TV and film, but a lot

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Speaker 4: of my notoriety in media and in writing comes from

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Speaker 4: my days as editor in chief of The Source magazine

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Speaker 4: back in the hip hop nineties.

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Speaker 1: Explain to me that decade that time. How you were

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Speaker 1: able to rise to the top of being the editor

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Speaker 1: in chief of Source, which to me, at one point

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Speaker 1: for many people was the choice, the source of where

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Speaker 1: you would go too.

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Speaker 2: There was a Source Awards.

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Speaker 1: If you needed any information, it was there. That was

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Speaker 1: the only way that we could catch up with what

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Speaker 1: we thought was inside of our hip hop industry.

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Speaker 4: I tell mam, I've got a daughter in her twenties,

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Speaker 4: and I tell her that the Source then was like

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Speaker 4: TikTok ig all that stuff like in one right, Like

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Speaker 4: that was where you got your information, your perspective, your

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Speaker 4: analysis about hip hop, which is the driving you know,

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Speaker 4: culture for young people. You know, we were really the

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Speaker 4: rolling stone of hip hop, if you will. And the

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Speaker 4: nineties was just an incredible error, incredible moment and you know,

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Speaker 4: incredible decade. I mean, I think people will look back

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Speaker 4: at it the way they talk about like the Roaring twenties.

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Speaker 4: You know, with jazz, you've got everybody from Jade and

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Speaker 4: Nas to the Fujis, you know, merging and beginning their myth,

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Speaker 4: beginning their legend, and we were right in the middle

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Speaker 4: of it. I mean, every major artist you can think of,

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Speaker 4: you know, they all that they all worked with us,

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Speaker 4: They've all come to my office. I have all these

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Speaker 4: stories of you know, everybody from Bust to the Tropical Quest.

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Speaker 4: They would come to our offices and they'd really come

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Speaker 4: to my office and put the new album on and

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Speaker 4: like perform it. So I had all these like imprompts,

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Speaker 4: you like, you know, concerts in my office back in

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Speaker 4: the day.

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Speaker 1: When I think of Source, the Source hit the magazine,

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Speaker 1: and then I think of the Hit, there were awards

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Speaker 1: at the Source awards, remember, it was just it was

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Speaker 1: they were starting to do what people are doing now.

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Speaker 1: The branding of it was really amazing. And because I

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Speaker 1: grew up in La I think of the East Coast

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Speaker 1: versus West Coast. How would you describe that time, because

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Speaker 1: just as someone on the outside looking in, all it

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Speaker 1: reminded me of just you know, Poc and Biggie or

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Speaker 1: you know Snoop going on stage was like you know where.

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Speaker 3: You gonna do? You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, things did versus dre like there were all

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Speaker 1: of these different back and forth which are so simple

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Speaker 1: and silly. But how would you remember that time? How

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Speaker 1: would you what synopsis would you give it? For those

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Speaker 1: who were not aware.

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Speaker 4: Of it and or old enough that sure, you know,

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Speaker 4: there's a couple of things that I keep in mind

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Speaker 4: about that time. I think, you know, we always say

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Speaker 4: that it was really a tussle between two labels and

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Speaker 4: two camps of artists that you know, so that got

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Speaker 4: blown up into entire coasts, right, this is really a

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Speaker 4: bad boy versus death row sort of situation. I think

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Speaker 4: about it in terms of the highs of some of

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Speaker 4: the great music you know that came out of it,

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Speaker 4: and also with a lot of sadness, you know, with

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Speaker 4: a lot of sadness. I mean I was there. I

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Speaker 4: at that Vibe party, maybe six or seven cars behind

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Speaker 4: Big the night he got shot. And this is not

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Speaker 4: to ascribe his killing to that particular beef, but it's

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Speaker 4: more about the climate, you know, you know, you know

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Speaker 4: that was there when they were both brilliant young men,

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Speaker 4: brilliant young artists, and to lose both of them within

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Speaker 4: seven seven month period, it's one of the more like

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Speaker 4: it was horrific rough times.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I.

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Speaker 1: Don't you obviously I wasn't you know. I just remember

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Speaker 1: being on on UCLA's campus and they're saying and they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: Tupac died.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, And I remember.

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Speaker 1: My mother being like, who is this Tupac? They're ascribing him,

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Speaker 1: They're saying he's similar to Elvis Presley and he was

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Speaker 1: one of the kind, and they had all of these

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Speaker 1: and it was so so sad. It was just the

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Speaker 1: most shocking news you could think of, because the what

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Speaker 1: ifs of it all really do make you even more sad.

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Speaker 3: Do you remember where you were when Pod died?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I was in New York. And what was

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Speaker 4: wild is if you remember, he didn't die right away,

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Speaker 4: right and we were closing the magazine, so I actually

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Speaker 4: had to prepare kind of two different edit letters, one

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Speaker 4: if he pulled through and one if he passed away,

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Speaker 4: and I wrote both, and you know, a few days

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Speaker 4: later we got the news that he didn't make it,

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Speaker 4: and that's the one that ended up getting printed. But

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Speaker 4: even just the psychological way of having to say, you know,

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Speaker 4: Pop gets job and survives again and then Pop passes away.

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Speaker 4: Doing that at twenty five, it's just it's just, you know,

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Speaker 4: screws that your mind a little bit.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because when I talk to people who remember

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Speaker 1: it from New York and were documented you were young,

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Speaker 1: you were a kid. You were a kid, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't really even understand what it was. I tell the story,

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Speaker 1: and I've said this on the podcast before, of how

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Speaker 1: I was maybe fifteen four fist sixteen when I first

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Speaker 1: met POC had a hair salon in Pasadena. It was

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Speaker 1: on those salons where you get your hair done and

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Speaker 1: the guy could get his haircut, and he walked in

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Speaker 1: there and I'm just like just starstruck. But he was

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Speaker 1: also just a kid as well, and so there were

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Speaker 1: all of these moments that you don't even realize that

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Speaker 1: become a part of our history.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you talk about those.

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Speaker 1: Two letters, what was the difference outside of the outcome.

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Speaker 4: You know, one of them, you know, obviously the one

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Speaker 4: that we didn't run, the one where he survived. I

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Speaker 4: kind of try to, I kind of I wrote about

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Speaker 4: Pockets on metaphor for hip hop itself and for young

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Speaker 4: black cultural stuff, and the idea of the sort of

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Speaker 4: intensity of pressure and blows and the force is all

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Speaker 4: trying to push you down and push you down, but

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Speaker 4: somehow you have the resilience to get back up. You know,

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Speaker 4: I really really really really really breaks my heart. And

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Speaker 4: that's not the one that you know that we ran

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Speaker 4: I can't. I mean, I'm just imagine what he would

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Speaker 4: be today.

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Speaker 2: It's it's just, you know, it would be fascinating.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that was a turning point in hip

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Speaker 1: hop when he died and Biggie died. I think that

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Speaker 1: was a turning point in hip hop. Now, I'm not

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Speaker 1: an officient what did you see change?

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Speaker 2: What happened?

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Speaker 1: Because it was still so hip hop was still so

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Speaker 1: much in its infancy. We just celebrated the fiftieth anniversary, yeah, recently,

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Speaker 1: so it was still pretty much in its infancy, if you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, tons tons changed. I mean, you know, those

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Speaker 4: two were, i'd say, definitively the the leading lights, you

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Speaker 4: know that we had in the time. You know. Losing

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Speaker 4: both of them affected not only Bad Boy and the Throw,

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Speaker 4: but the entire industry. Right. I think from an economic standpoint,

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Speaker 4: I think we were fortunate in that a couple of

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Speaker 4: years later, acts like jay Z and DMX and death

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Speaker 4: Jaz specifically really sort of picked up the weight, you know,

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Speaker 4: if you will, and charged forward. And it's probably not

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Speaker 4: a coincidence that, you know, people like jay Z were

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Speaker 4: friends with you know what Big and people took that

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Speaker 4: sort of you know, personally. But what I most remember

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Speaker 4: is the kind of emotional pain, you know, after Big Past,

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Speaker 4: and we were all, you know, generalizing a little bit,

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Speaker 4: but we were all between like twenty four and twenty six,

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Speaker 4: you know, and it just felt like we'd gone through

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Speaker 4: losing John Lennon twice, you know, and people had a

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Speaker 4: distinct sense of I don't know what happens next. I

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Speaker 4: don't know where this goes next. I don't know where

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Speaker 4: this music goes, where it's called goes unlike anything that

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Speaker 4: I felt that I felt since, you know, but hip

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Speaker 4: hop again, I think, is this kind of definition, this

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Speaker 4: living metaphor of American and cultural and black resilience. And

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Speaker 4: and we bounced back, I mean, different, never the same.

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Speaker 4: I mean I wish we had ten albums from From

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Speaker 4: From Big and Park to look back on the day.

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Speaker 4: I can't imagine what it'd be artistically.

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Speaker 1: That just gave me chills the thought of it. I churse,

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Speaker 1: because you know, music will narrate your life. I remember

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Speaker 1: going back to Cali and just you know, everything is

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Speaker 1: college and driving down you know, Westwood Boulevard leaving campus

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Speaker 1: and listening to that thinking what is this that I am?

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Speaker 1: Why is this so this this in my ears, the

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Speaker 1: reaction to my body, everything.

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Speaker 2: That I loved about it.

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Speaker 1: In the same with Park, like he was just so

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Speaker 1: ahead of his time. He watched these documentaries and you're

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Speaker 1: just like, you were so ahead of your time. I

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Speaker 1: almost don't even know if you were supposed to. His

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Speaker 1: songs today have so much relevance. Brenda's Got a Baby.

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Speaker 3: You think of those these songs and you're listening to

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Speaker 3: the words and.

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Speaker 2: Why do we hate our women?

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Speaker 1: Why you know, all the things that he was trying

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Speaker 1: to explain it. I'm just in my mind, I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this young man was so he was such a prophet.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you're right. I mean historically, you know, cross genre,

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Speaker 4: across culture, there are areds incredible bright stars that burn fast,

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Speaker 4: burn early, and burn out, you know, but we're left

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Speaker 4: with the legacy and we're left with the art all

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Speaker 4: the things. Maybe Park was just one of those, I hope.

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Speaker 2: So of course I'm giving you most of my West

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Speaker 2: Coast version.

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Speaker 4: That's okay, That's how that's how it works.

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Speaker 1: And I almost you know, I would hate for anybody

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Speaker 1: to listen to this, and they would fight me because

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Speaker 1: I am not a music you know. Ahead I don't

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Speaker 1: know that, but I always think of those stars from

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Speaker 1: West Coast. Obviously, you guys new n w A. You

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Speaker 1: don't give me ice cube, but you can't tell me

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Speaker 1: like that's all home. But then you think who else

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Speaker 1: picks up the mantle? And we had Nipsey. Nipsey was

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Speaker 1: a slow burn, not as bright, I think because death

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Speaker 1: made him even more inviting other people, because you're larger

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Speaker 1: in death and in life. Sometimes then I'm like, Kendrick

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Speaker 1: comes in and he brings back this h He is

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Speaker 1: the epitome of everything they all were, but on such

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Speaker 1: a much more sophisticated level. Right like he understood the call,

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Speaker 1: but he took it to an entirely different level. And

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Speaker 1: then his genius at the Super Bowl, I'm all like,

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Speaker 1: I I'm here to say it's to me. Hip hop

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Speaker 1: is one of the most beautiful things, the most beautiful

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Speaker 1: forms of fact.

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Speaker 2: It just is so.

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Speaker 1: And while I know that you had a beautiful hand

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Speaker 1: in that history, you're still doing the same and it

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Speaker 1: has to feel I don't know if you understand, because

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Speaker 1: sometimes we don't know when we're doing it, how we

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Speaker 1: are creating history or her history. However, you would like

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Speaker 1: to call it. But when you left the Source, did

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Speaker 1: you feel depressed? Did you feel like when it closed rather,

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Speaker 1: did you feel like, what's next? Will I be able

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Speaker 1: to do something just as great?

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Speaker 4: That's so weird. I tell people my joke for years,

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Speaker 4: my joke in my drive, my motivating force, was I

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Speaker 4: cannot have the first line of my oh bit read

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Speaker 4: former editor in chief of the Source, right, you know, like,

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Speaker 4: why not? Because no, because it's fantastic. But I was

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Speaker 4: so young, right, and it would mean that I peaked

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Speaker 4: in my twenties, yeah, you know. And and I spent

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Speaker 4: a lot of years sort of obsessing about that and

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Speaker 4: being driven, you know by that, especially once I decided

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Speaker 4: to make the turn and and go to Hollywood. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I think it was all really beneficial because you need

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Speaker 4: such a complex out of motivations to push you through

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Speaker 4: that amount that you have to climb in the world

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Speaker 4: that I exist now. And I think the the drive

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Speaker 4: to compete, if you will, with my younger self was

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Speaker 4: a big part, you know, you know, part of it.

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Speaker 4: But that's all an equilibrium. Now. I'm happy. I don't

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Speaker 4: mind have the sources first or second. I feel like

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Speaker 4: I've done enough work, feels like a body at work.

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Speaker 4: But early on it's kind of like, man, I'm twenty eight,

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Speaker 4: Am I done? You know, like it's that feeling, you

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Speaker 4: know that.

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Speaker 1: No one's reading anymore. We don't read anymore in America's

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Speaker 1: which is evident.

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Speaker 4: We cannot have seen. I cannot have seen this time

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Speaker 4: come in.

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Speaker 1: Nobody back then, right, nobody, nobody, And it comes so quickly,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, am I am I with the times?

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Speaker 1: So you make this turn to Hollywood? And what is

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Speaker 1: your intention? What are you thinking you're going to do?

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Speaker 1: What was your goal when you set up?

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Speaker 4: I wanted to do much what I did the Source,

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Speaker 4: which which is two part right, So I wanted to

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Speaker 4: be able to create work that would speak to the

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Speaker 4: communities that I'm from, the communities that I care about.

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Speaker 4: I mean, speak to the whole world, you know, as

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Speaker 4: a whole, but speak to speak to young black people,

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Speaker 4: you know, speak speak to the daspora. And secondly, what

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Speaker 4: I did as an editor the Source, and that I'm

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Speaker 4: most proud of is really create and architecture, really create

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Speaker 4: a home for other creatives to come and shine and

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Speaker 4: then come and do their work. All of the young

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Speaker 4: writers and photographers like so many people came through the

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Speaker 4: sources doors back in the day, and so for me,

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Speaker 4: you know, and coming to Hollywood, it wasn't just about

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Speaker 4: you know, becoming success as a writer, but also as

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Speaker 4: a producer, you know, also being able to again create

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Speaker 4: the vehicles, create the architecture that let other people like

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Speaker 4: me have a chance as well.

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Speaker 1: Sure, so when you think of all the projects that

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Speaker 1: you've worked on thus far, anyone in particular that stands

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Speaker 1: out where you're most proud? And then is there anyone

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Speaker 1: that had the most commercial success?

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Speaker 4: Well, not necessarily, I think in my place case, they're

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Speaker 4: pretty close. Obviously. This most recent Baby Washing, the Black

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Speaker 4: Mike kurrent Shaw and Hulu kind of checks so many

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Speaker 4: of the boxes. It was a real labor of love.

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Speaker 4: I really put everything I have as an artist into it.

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Speaker 4: It's done immensely well and who Lou and I'm completely

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Speaker 4: you know, you know, proud of it got to you know,

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Speaker 4: employ fifteen hundred people around the world and two continents

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Speaker 4: in three countries, you know, so it did all the

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Speaker 4: things you know pretty close you know, behind it different

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Speaker 4: because it wasn't my show. I was just a writer

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Speaker 4: on the show. But I'm also really proud of the

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Speaker 4: work I did with Jordan Peel on The Twilight Zone,

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Speaker 4: you know, because I was able to write an episode

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Speaker 4: that you know, tackled one of our you know, contemporary

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Speaker 4: issues that hasn't hasn't gone away, this idea of police

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Speaker 4: praying on our community. And I was able to work

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Speaker 4: with with the wonderful Sonilthan and a much younger Damson interests.

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Speaker 4: You know, when I see Daphs and Desas, I'm like

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Speaker 4: superstar blowing up, you know, like day And you know,

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Speaker 4: it really did a wonderful episode called Replay that kind

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Speaker 4: of takes that sci fi fantasy genre portrait of the

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Speaker 4: Twilight Zone wraps it around a really sharing social political issue.

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Speaker 4: So I'm really proud of that. This is a piece

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Speaker 4: of work. But Washing Black is everything man. Working with

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Speaker 4: Sterling K. Brown, working with Tom Ellis, working with Charles Dance,

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Speaker 4: It's all the amazing actors you know on the show.

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Speaker 4: It was. We can talk about that one all day.

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Speaker 4: Sterling K.

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Speaker 1: Brown can do no wrong and everything that he touches

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Speaker 1: I am such a fan of and he's just a

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Speaker 1: good guy. Yeah, I would like to talk about Washington Black.

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Speaker 1: So I am watching the episodes last night in preparation.

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Speaker 2: But I am telling you.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I've been going and going, but I

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Speaker 1: love period pieces, so I thought i'd watch and be exhausted.

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Speaker 1: I was like, wait a second, this is really wonderful.

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Speaker 1: I'm giving my own review. But I love period pieces.

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Speaker 1: I really do. I think that's right up my alley,

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Speaker 1: Like I could watch that all day, but the silliness

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Speaker 1: in me and I didn't read the book.

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Speaker 2: You could if you will, no problem. Can you tell

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Speaker 2: everyone what the book is about?

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Speaker 1: And they don't ask my, my really really super black question?

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Speaker 1: I have a super super black group in a ghetto question.

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Speaker 4: Not a problem, but a problem. The series Watching Black

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Speaker 4: and the book are generally the same, right. It is

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Speaker 4: a story of It's a period piece. It's about a

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Speaker 4: young boy who grows up on a sugar plantation in Barbados.

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Speaker 4: A tragic event happens, and he is forced to flee

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Speaker 4: that plantation through some slightly fantastical means, and then essentially

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Speaker 4: proceeds on a coming of age journey around the world,

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Speaker 4: during which he becomes a great scientist and an inventor

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Speaker 4: in his own right. The book tells that story linearly, right,

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Speaker 4: So the the narrator is our lead character as an

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Speaker 4: adult looking back on this life. The series takes a

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Speaker 4: nonlinear approach, so you you're meeting both the young character

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Speaker 4: and the old character and sort of bouncing back, you know,

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Speaker 4: in between. And there's tons of other differences in terms

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Speaker 4: of what the show highlights and explores, but that basic

437
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,120
Speaker 4: story idea is the same.

438
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: Well, his I don't want to say his mentor, but

439
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 1: and then the first episode, I'm watching his mentor would

440
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,479
Speaker 1: you call would you call it the starling characteracter? No?

441
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 4: No, no, yeah, yeah, yeah is that his?

442
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 2: Is his mentor?

443
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 4: If you would call him, yeah, he's He's a complicated,

444
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 4: flawed mentor. How far have you gotten?

445
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,199
Speaker 1: Because I want to ruin it for okay, you don't

446
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 1: don't know. I literally I had just finished episode two,

447
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 1: like carry, there's more. I need everybody to tune in

448
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 1: because it's so good. But there's this wonder like early

449
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 1: on in the series, the first episode, and he's.

450
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 2: Like George Washington Black.

451
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 1: He was like interesting, like saying his name, like like

452
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: you have a lot to live up to, George Washington Black,

453
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 1: And in my mind, I'm like, oh, so clearly you're black.

454
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 2: George Washington. That's what like this real black.

455
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 1: I was just like, was that was that where we're

456
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 1: going in the book? He's a black George Washington. I

457
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: don't understand. I was like, why is his name George

458
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: Washington black?

459
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 2: Are you trying to say he black? George Washington? Just

460
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 2: real hood?

461
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 1: And I was like, that's my simple connection to right away.

462
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 1: And I was like, that's fascinating actually, and that's how

463
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 1: names probably did come about in that day. There's real simple,

464
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 1: there's nothing, nothing tricky to it. But I thought it

465
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: was really beautiful and funny at the same time, because

466
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: that's my immediate go to.

467
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 2: It was such a great actor. What is his name?

468
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 4: His name is Sims Eddie Kranja Eddie. He is a

469
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 4: young actor from the from the UK oh.

470
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 2: I thought, so, okay, okay, I thought I heard that.

471
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, just a beautiful soul, you know, And I mean

472
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 4: that was the most important. I mean also adult watch too,

473
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 4: but the kid part of why the show feels the

474
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 4: way it does in terms of its whimsy and it's dreaminess,

475
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 4: it's optimism, it's joy is because it's from a child pov,

476
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 4: you know, and so.

477
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 2: That's what that is.

478
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 3: I didn't know why.

479
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: It felt light, but still it was some moments where like, oh,

480
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 1: that's a little too heavy. I have a problem just

481
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: me generally, I don't I don't like to see black

482
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: people getting hit by white people.

483
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 3: Sure, I do not.

484
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: I know people like I think my last film that

485
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: I watched, it was like twelve years I was like,

486
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 1: I can't do that anymore. It just makes me do

487
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 1: it. It just makes me so angry. I can't take it.

488
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: It's it's a revolution.

489
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 2: I can't do it.

490
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: But it was so light, and I wanted to talk

491
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: to you about that, and yeah, so it is that

492
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 1: the approach when you want to tell those stories that

493
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 1: can be difficult, you take it from a child's point

494
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 1: of view and leave out that and leave out.

495
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 4: The I think that's part of it, you know. I

496
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 4: also think it is possible to tell those kind of

497
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 4: stories emotionally right, meaning that I don't have to see

498
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 4: somebody getting like whipped and beat and all that stuff.

499
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 4: I need it. I need to see it. I can

500
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 4: feel it in the emotion of the characters.

501
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:57,959
Speaker 2: I don't want to see it, you know what I mean.

502
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 4: It's not it doesn't add any thing. Again, this is

503
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 4: my personal other artist. Well, you know, we'll do it.

504
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 4: You know, differently, I think great actors can carry I'm

505
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 4: living in a place that is restrictive to my soul

506
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 4: and I don't want to be here, and they can

507
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 4: get that across, right, you know, And our whole goal

508
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 4: is that first episode.

509
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: Can you say that again?

510
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 4: I am living in a place that is restrictive to

511
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 4: my soul and I don't want to be here.

512
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 1: In America, I'm like currently as we exist, and I'm

513
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: not saying that if I just I'm seeking for myself,

514
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: don't know about nobody else.

515
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 2: I'm living the place.

516
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: It's restrictive to my soul right now, I know, right,

517
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 1: I need't.

518
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 2: Mean to do it.

519
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 4: I was like, oh no, that was a beautiful that

520
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 4: was very hip hops ahead. No, no, And that's you

521
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 4: know the I talk about the show a lot, you know,

522
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 4: I am I'm a st Indian, I'm Caribbean, right, and

523
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 4: I talk about the show so sometimes. And there's something

524
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 4: that my Jamaican friends would say that the show is

525
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 4: a walk from Babylon to Zion, right, meaning from hell

526
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 4: to heaven. And so you get enough of the hell

527
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 4: in episode one, and that many catapults out of there.

528
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,239
Speaker 4: It's a journey divorce, joy and finding his agency and

529
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 4: finding finding who he is.

530
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 1: I think, and now it means you should read the book.

531
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: Apparently everyone you should read the book.

532
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 2: This is what it's telling me right now.

533
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: But I really truly felt a lightness. I don't know

534
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: what it is about. And I'm curious if you outside

535
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: of reading the book, how do you feel about the

536
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: And it's not necessarily it's fiction, right, yeah, but it's not.

537
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 4: Yes, but it's not exactly exactly exactly.

538
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,239
Speaker 3: So how how do you approach something like that?

539
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 2: And I use it.

540
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: I try to think of just life lessons because everything

541
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: seems feasible, everything seems within reach. Dreams are for you

542
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 1: know what I mean? And to be chosen and to

543
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: be spotlighted like Wash was and being George Washington Black

544
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 1: Calum Wash, to be chosen because there's something special and

545
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: set apart. We all have experienced that, and if we haven't, gosh,

546
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: I pray, yeah, I hope we all do experience being

547
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: set apart and being and know that you're different in

548
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: ways that can set you onto different trajectories. How do

549
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: you when you're trying to tell that story, because that

550
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: was so beautifully cemented in that first episode, and I

551
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: was like, I'm.

552
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 2: All in on that.

553
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 3: I love that, I'm all in on that we need

554
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 3: some hope, right.

555
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 4: We absolutely do. I Mean Sterling always says this every

556
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 4: time he talks about the show, because you know how

557
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 4: people will when they hear about it in a broad sense,

558
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 4: you know, and they know that it starts in a plantation,

559
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 4: you know, they'll they'll have the reaction that you have.

560
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 4: And we have been really adamant about telling people like,

561
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,479
Speaker 4: I ain't really what we set out to do. You know,

562
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 4: it's a show about finding joy. It's a show about

563
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 4: just won't ruin it for you as you get deeper,

564
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 4: but you'll find out it's a show about finding your wings. Right, Like,

565
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 4: there's a reason that flying is like the central metaphor,

566
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:10,719
Speaker 4: you know, you know to the show. He is building

567
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 4: a machine, you know, his adult self that will take

568
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 4: him into the sky. And you'll see the way that

569
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 4: kind of develops as you go further and further in

570
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 4: the show. But my kind of central idea was we

571
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 4: all got wings. You know, some of us haven't found

572
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 4: the yet, some of us haven't on Furlom and starts

573
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 4: flying yet. But we all have wings of one kind

574
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 4: or another, and I wanted to write a show that

575
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 4: it would inspire you. If this kid could come where

576
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 4: he came out of and figure out a way to

577
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 4: find his wings to fly.

578
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 2: We all can We all can't. It's great.

579
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: It does have a very beautiful fantasy element to it.

580
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: It's so gorgeous. Thus far, I'll get to you. I'll

581
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: call you when you finish, give you my thoughts, tell

582
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: you where we could do some rewrites. Look at your

583
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: people who don't know nothing, like, let me tell you

584
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: what I was thinking about an episode for I know.

585
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.

586
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 4: I'm sure you deal with that kind of people too.

587
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 4: That's all. It's hilarious, do you.

588
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 2: And not to? But this brings some reality into it.

589
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 2: I was joking. But you think about the.

590
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: Times that we are in right now currently at the administration,

591
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: what we see on television. I do believe eight months

592
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: into this new presidency, we nine months in. Rather, I

593
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: think Americans in general are shocked. Yeah, I think all Americans.

594
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: I don't care what color you are, You're just like, wait,

595
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: is this really happening in real life? Some people forwards,

596
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: you know, I believe a lot of people are not

597
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: for it. The climate that we're in. Does it help

598
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: or hurt the series?

599
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 4: I think it helps it, you know, And obviously I'm

600
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 4: not an objective view right now, but I think it

601
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 4: helps it. I think I think in times like this,

602
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 4: it's a couple of things. I think people need hope,

603
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 4: you know, people need, you know, art that provides them

604
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 4: hope and escape. I think people need art that provides

605
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 4: them a sense of inspiration. I think, particularly for our

606
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 4: community and these times, you also need art that shows

607
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 4: you the different phases of resistance, right, because that's also

608
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 4: what the show is about. But it's about joy as resistance, right.

609
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 4: It's about kindness as resistance. It's about having a sense

610
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 4: of purpose as resistance, you know. You know, because wash

611
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 4: Wash gets a lot of incoming, and he'll get more

612
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 4: and more as he goes through this journey, but his

613
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 4: spirit stays unbowed, right, And I think we're living in

614
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 4: a time where you know, we're catching hell spiritually, and

615
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 4: it's the question of how do we stay unbowed Because

616
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 4: you don't want that stuff to corrupt you and change you,

617
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 4: so you end up looking and feeling and be as

618
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 4: you know, spiritually defunct. As quote unquote, they are right.

619
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,479
Speaker 4: So it's how do you maintain How do we maintain

620
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 4: a certain kind of grace? How do we maintain a

621
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 4: certain kind of kindness? How do we maintain a certain

622
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 4: kind of purpose while the world's trying to shoot us down?

623
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 2: How do we do that? I'm asking, are you a

624
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 2: life coach as well?

625
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 4: I am?

626
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: Because joy is resistance, you know it, rest is resistance.

627
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: Being honest is resistance. Like the simple things.

628
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: That bring you the easiest joy that you can find,

629
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: or the easiest way to live is so hard to do,

630
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: or it feels as if well, you know.

631
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 4: I think the way I do it, I mean, no surprise,

632
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 4: writers just replicate themselves in their shows is the same

633
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 4: way that Wash does it, and that the show suggests,

634
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 4: which is the role of family, you know, Washing Black,

635
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 4: as much of anything else, is about family, and like

636
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 4: chosen family, right, not just like my bluff. The people

637
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 4: that you choose to surround yourself with, they should provide

638
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 4: you with like respite spiritually, you know, you should all

639
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 4: when it works, You know, we should all be kind

640
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 4: of mutually reinforcing each other because nobody's going to get

641
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 4: through times like like this alone. You know. So I

642
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 4: think family is key, and whether that's your found family

643
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 4: of two or twenty, who knows, right, But the point

644
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 4: and is like, don't isolate, don't go through these times

645
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 4: by yourself.

646
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

647
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: I haven't really understood that until obviously this current situation

648
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: and you pay attention to the world. I am so

649
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: protective over my space. I am Carrie who all going

650
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: to be their champion? I am you know what I mean, like,

651
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: because it's so necessary. Right now everything is so fragile

652
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: and it's not bleak, but it is fragile. So I

653
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: do enjoy the idea of a chosen family or your

654
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: family and friends and making sure they give you peace

655
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: and spiritually. It is so important. I don't think people

656
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: even really understand how important it is.

657
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 4: You know.

658
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: There is a we were talking about this maybe a

659
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: couple of months ago on the podcast and I was

660
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: listening to this one clip and it was about the

661
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: art of frenemies, people who are actively your friends but

662
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: really don't like and you keep them around very healthy.

663
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 2: It's a real thing.

664
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: And I was like, I I've done that, you know,

665
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: because maybe it's the access or perhaps resources or what

666
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: you or what you think you liked.

667
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 3: About them, or maybe you've moved on.

668
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: And I realize that is so unhealthy, but much more

669
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: normalized than being around people who make you feel good.

670
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 4: Believe it or not. The show will touch on that

671
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 4: another reason. Yeah, there's you know.

672
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 2: Sometimes I know but by the way, I mean, I

673
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 2: have an idea and I.

674
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: Know, I was like, I don't want to ruin it,

675
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: but yes, I was like, that's disappointing everybody.

676
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 4: You're supposed to be there, everybody.

677
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 3: Life is supposed to be there, and that's a disappointment.

678
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 3: That is a disappointment of life.

679
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 2: I love this.

680
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: Okay, So okay, with that being said, if you were

681
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: to uh tell anyone uh to watch the show, you

682
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: can watch it over and over again. It's also one

683
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: of those shows that you can watch over and over again.

684
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: Please do over and over again just for to feel good.

685
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: I can tell that already. But if there is someone

686
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: who is saying, you know what I want to do?

687
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 4: What you do?

688
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: Look how you look at this beautiful career you've created

689
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: for yourself. There is no blueprint. I love how people

690
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: think you just sit down and you figure it out,

691
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,959
Speaker 1: and nine times out of ten you stumble into something great,

692
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: and you're like, wait this works. You know you you

693
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: moved to Hollywood to pursue Hollywood, So were you an

694
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: overnight success?

695
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah? Did it happen right away? Says it happens right away?

696
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 4: Right, yeah? Mixing it always it always looks that way

697
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,240
Speaker 4: from the outside, you know, like, oh, this is yesterday,

698
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 4: but obviously it does not. I think, I think I've

699
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 4: I've had a rapid success, but those years of agony

700
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 4: and pain, you know, I mean, look, keeping it completely real.

701
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 4: I mean, I left New York when I'm going to

702
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 4: Hollywood fifteen fourteen years ago, something like that. But you know,

703
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 4: after a very successful career as an editor and a

704
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 4: writer and this and that, and you know, moving to Hollywood,

705
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,240
Speaker 4: I'm signed by w Ame, like all the fancy things,

706
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 4: and then you know, two and a half years, I'm

707
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 4: a forty some year old man sleeping on my father's

708
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 4: couch for ten dollars in the bank. Right like it

709
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 4: is the likewash, you got to have the mental commitment

710
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 4: to walk from Babylon to Zion because you are going

711
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 4: to go through Everybody has their own version of the

712
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 4: I had to sleep in my car story, right, Like

713
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 4: the specifics might change but the kind of idea that

714
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 4: the business is going to break you all the way

715
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 4: down before you can get back up to the top

716
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 4: is real, you know.

717
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: So why do you think that is talked about?

718
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I think success requires an intimate knowledge

719
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 4: of sacrifice. I do, I do. I think. I think.

720
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 4: I think true success, true success that is selfless, right,

721
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 4: because I think there's a way to be successful that's

722
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 4: also like selfish that I think is ephemeral, that that

723
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 4: you know that what does it mean that goes away?

724
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 4: Meaning like you know, you see people who like achieve

725
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 4: whatever the brass ring and it's all about them and

726
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 4: not necessarily like the community that they came from, the

727
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 4: people that empowered them along the way. And maybe it's

728
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 4: karmik maybe because I'm a believer like in karma, I

729
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 4: don't think that kind of success lasts, right because I

730
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 4: think no one ever stays at the top of whatever

731
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 4: your discipline is, like you like, like this happens, and

732
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 4: if you don't have if you haven't been self lessed

733
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 4: at the top, if you haven't brought your family or

734
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 4: you know, your chosen family with you, if you haven't

735
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 4: empowered people on the way, there's nobody to catch you

736
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 4: when this happens, and this will happen like nobody stays

737
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 4: like that. You know you're gonna do that. So I

738
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 4: think the hard times that all of us go through, hopefully,

739
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 4: I'm sure there's no part of everybody on your way

740
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 4: up the top of the ladder is to teach you

741
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 4: that kind of empathy, right, you know, like you should

742
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 4: never forget what it feels like, you know, when you

743
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 4: whatever you're doing fine to be like I remember it

744
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 4: felt like to be like, oh man, I gotta choose

745
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 4: life bill of food, right, you know I got it

746
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 4: beside like am I doing the three piece? Like chicken tenders?

747
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,399
Speaker 4: You know what I mean? You should have a ting.

748
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 3: What life is about, because it makes you appreciate.

749
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 4: That thanks you appreciated, and I think makes you much

750
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 4: more empathetic towards people who were trying to do what

751
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 4: you wanted. What what you've done?

752
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 2: You know, so rapid success? What happened? Are you still

753
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: with w and noses?

754
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 4: No? I love my friends, endeavor.

755
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:41,720
Speaker 2: I'm a ceass the street. Oh that's cool.

756
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 4: I love, love love my team there. They've been very

757
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 4: very very good to me and you know, just just

758
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 4: trying to be a black man in his business, making

759
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 4: work that matters, and making work there counts, and making

760
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 4: work that looks like us.

761
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: I have been told over and over again when I

762
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: am everything that I've done is for the culture collectively

763
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 1: women also. But like I'm standing on black and brown

764
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 1: because that's my experience and I know very intimately. But

765
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: so if I start a foundation and I call it

766
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,879
Speaker 1: Brown Girls Dream, I'm always told do you really want

767
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 1: to call it that? I'm like, yeah, because we all

768
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 1: have a dream and we're brown girls. Well, you know,

769
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: as opposed to Carrie Champion foundation. People always name some

770
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: chapter themselves. And then there is this conversation that I've

771
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: been having and it's popping up all the time, and

772
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: my good friends are gently saying this to me, my

773
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 1: chosen family. I don't know if this is the time

774
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: to be speaking out. I don't know if you should

775
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: be saying what you're saying. And I'm not up there

776
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: like fuck the police, I hate whitey. You know, I'm

777
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: literally just speaking facts and suggesting that what is wrong

778
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: is wrong, and it's clear that it's wrong. And I

779
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: had a girlfriend on the podcast shout out to my

780
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: friend Aaron Haynes, the new president n ABJ, which is

781
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: the National Association.

782
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 2: Of Black.

783
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: And she said, and sometimes I wonder is it worth it?

784
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 1: Because when it's all said and done, if you were

785
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: here doing work specifically trying to uplift the culture and

786
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 1: build the culture, do you ever find that that will

787
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: prevent you from doing something that is And I don't

788
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 1: even want to use the word mainstream because that would

789
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 1: be century whites.

790
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 2: But do you think that would prevent you?

791
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,720
Speaker 1: Do you think it has prevented you from doing work

792
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 1: that would be considered mainstream.

793
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 4: I don't think so at all. And look, you know,

794
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 4: people have different approaches to this. I think mine comes

795
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 4: out of being a hip hop kid, right, So for me,

796
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 4: it's like I take the full essence of who I

797
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 4: am into whatever I do, so you know, you know perfect.

798
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 4: I mean, I'll talk about a couple of other things

799
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 4: I've done because I mean, as you may know, you

800
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 4: can do a lot of stuff in Hollywood that the

801
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 4: public doesn't see, right because it just doesn't get you know, produced.

802
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 4: But I've been lucky enough to do some really cool stuff.

803
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 4: I mean, so not only have I don't watch him

804
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 4: black like I also wrote the first not the first,

805
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 4: but I also wrote like a big, huge, like Joker

806
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 4: movie that never got made. Right. So, like after Jared

807
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 4: Leto did this whole suit squad thoughts, you know, squad

808
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 4: thing he was, you know, he's going to do the

809
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 4: Joker solo film, you know up at DC. So I wrote,

810
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 4: I wrote that movie, and you know it's a big,

811
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 4: splashy com book film. But I think there's something about

812
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 4: the way I wrote the central characters that that was

813
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 4: very hip hop, you know what I mean, That was

814
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 4: very like reflective of who I am as an artistan

815
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 4: and a writer. You know. Obviously, quick cut that movie

816
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 4: did not come out because they also made this other

817
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 4: Joker movie that made ten billion dollars, and that happens

818
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 4: in Hollywood, you know, all the time. But it's more

819
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 4: alterative the fact that, like my career hasn't constrained me

820
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 4: to like, well, you just got to sit in this

821
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 4: corner and do this, you know what I mean. It's like, no,

822
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 4: I do everything, I just do it from the pov

823
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 4: of you know, a Caribbean kid who moved to Brooklyn

824
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 4: as a teenager and grew up in Flatbush and you

825
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 4: know worked, you know what I mean? Like like the

826
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 4: full totality of who I am. So, you know, hopefully

827
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 4: I continue to do that. And I would encourage, you know,

828
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 4: other writers and whatever you're disciplined, other artists, you know,

829
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 4: to sort of think that way. Don't feel don't feel limited,

830
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 4: but by who you are, bring who you are to everything.

831
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: That is a bold thing to do in today's America,

832
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 1: when everyone is.

833
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 4: Looking for followers, you're trying to reduce themselves and.

834
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: Reduce themselves to to fit into what they think works.

835
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 2: Where does that come from?

836
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you know, you know, the the governing. I

837
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 4: think emotion POV on a mass level is fair, right,

838
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 4: and I think it's justifiable, right. I mean, and it's

839
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 4: you go back to high school with that, right, Like

840
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 4: we're afraid, so we conform and we want to fit in.

841
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,399
Speaker 4: We don't want to like stand out, we don't want

842
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 4: to get bullied like that. That's an essential sort of

843
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 4: human state. But I also think things like bravery and

844
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,240
Speaker 4: standing up for oneself and standing up for one's family

845
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 4: and standing up for one's community are also an essential

846
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 4: part of the human condition as well. And I think

847
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 4: our survival as people as a community in these times

848
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 4: are going to require everybody for themselves negotiating that balance

849
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 4: between those two things.

850
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 2: Okay, that to end in So those things are just

851
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 2: you say it so eloquently.

852
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: It just requires and you just do it and then

853
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: it should be fine and we'll do it tomorrow. You

854
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 1: be yourself, tomorrow, be great, tomorrow, Okay, good. I don't

855
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: need you to come with all this wisdom with that

856
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: I do. I'm kidding, but you know my point being

857
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: is that is just so effortlessless.

858
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 3: And I just think that really just requires us sense

859
00:42:59,040 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 3: of self.

860
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, are you selling that?

861
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 2: Is that the next show.

862
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: How to where the book be a good idea? Just

863
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: really just double down on that, double down in an

864
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: authentic way, like I think I think everyone goes about, yeah,

865
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: I'm myself, and myself with the authenticity of it is

866
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: clearly lacking.

867
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 2: And the confidence.

868
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: So what you speak from is experience and from a

869
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: level of confidence that you have from your experiences.

870
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: For those who don't have that, how does that work?

871
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: Because confidence is I mean, I enjoy mine, but it

872
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 1: can it can work against you as well.

873
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 4: Sure, sure, and it's not you know, and to be fair,

874
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 4: it's not the easiest thing in the world to, you know,

875
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 4: to build. I don't want to make it sound like

876
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,240
Speaker 4: it's just so you like you drink a magic juice

877
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 4: and you're all this, but to go back something that

878
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 4: we're tiring about before. I also think this is why

879
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 4: family is so important, you know what I mean, because

880
00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 4: strength multiplies, you know, bravery multiplies. You know, like we

881
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 4: all feel, including me, you know, afraid and unsure and

882
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 4: anxious on our own, you know, isolated, like who's that

883
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 4: friend you can call, Who's that family member that who

884
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 4: makes you feel stronger and better and more confident about

885
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 4: your place in the world. So maybe I guess what

886
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 4: we're coming to is beyond all the kind of high

887
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 4: falutine like thematic and intellectual stuff like the key thing

888
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 4: for this moment, you know, talking about where we are

889
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 4: in the country really does go back to nurturing. Who

890
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 4: are you? Who do you surround yourself with? That's right,

891
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 4: you know, who gives you what you need to get

892
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:40,439
Speaker 4: to get to the days? Yeah?

893
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you look around and you got to see

894
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: if it's right or wrong. And also I got to

895
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 1: be honest with you. I know, the idea of hanging

896
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 1: around the cool kids is it? But I have never

897
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: been able.

898
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 2: To do that.

899
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 3: I just like so I like my own company.

900
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 2: I think it's the only child in me.

901
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well, let me be clear because I have

902
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: brothers and sisters, Papo, I love them.

903
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 2: I love you all. If you're watching it before I

904
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 2: let you go.

905
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: Any projects that you're working on that we should know

906
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: about up and coming or you can't talk about it,

907
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 1: or is there something that you want us to do

908
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,280
Speaker 1: as a community to make sure that we are watching

909
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 1: Washington Black.

910
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, thank you for that. Well, let's start with

911
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 4: one first. Thank you guys here, and thank you to

912
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 4: everybody who has already watched Washington Black, because it's it's

913
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 4: done really well, really well, and I hope people, as

914
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 4: you said, watch it again and again and again. I

915
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 4: think there's lessons and layers in there. So I'm really

916
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 4: excited about that. I can't talk about a couple of

917
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,919
Speaker 4: new things. Sterling and I just sold a new show

918
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 4: to Netflix.

919
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 3: Oh congratulation, change, change, give me two dollars.

920
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 4: So all super excited to continue our our creative relationship.

921
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 4: It's a show called The Trees. I'm just producing this

922
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 4: for not writing it. It'll be written by an amazing

923
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 4: writer named Marcus Gardley. It'll be on Netflix. It's adapted

924
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 4: from a book by Percival Everett, who is one of

925
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 4: our treasures of writing in this country. So super excited

926
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 4: about that. And then right behind that, I've been developing

927
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 4: a one hour drama with Usher that is inspired by

928
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 4: his Confession's album. So I will leave that for your imagine.

929
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 2: Is he starting it, is he cheating?

930
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 4: He is producing it? And if you have listened to

931
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 4: the record, which I know you have over and over,

932
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,879
Speaker 4: you can imagine it's not little. It's a fictionalized inspiration

933
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 4: from the album, and it goes.

934
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: Young Carey is ready, she ready for the tt okay,

935
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: Young Cary. You remember his confession really meant a lot

936
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: to me.

937
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 2: It changed my life. He educated us. I appreciated that truth.

938
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 4: Well, I'll have to come back with him.

939
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that. I'm so happy for you.

940
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: You really deserve I'm so happy. Let me let me

941
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: just say this shout out to Jock Quee, producer. She

942
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: was like, she was like, I really would like she's

943
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:04,839
Speaker 1: been pressing this and she was like she knew it.

944
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 1: Young director in the making, still directing producer, extravagant does

945
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: all the things she's a creative spirit as well. So

946
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: thank you for bringing him to my world.

947
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 4: I appreciate it.

948
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: It has been such a pleasure to meet you, Selwyn amazing.

949
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 1: Thank you for being here so much.

950
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 4: Have a great bag, you.

951
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 2: Too, Washington Black. Seriously, you guys have to watch it.

952
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 2: Know who will support this man?

953
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 1: At least turn it on, at least right let him

954
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: get some streams because y'all know what we need all

955
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,240
Speaker 1: the help we can get. And I also I also

956
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: am very very proud of him for saying.

957
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,760
Speaker 2: I can do work for the culture.

958
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: I can always bring my POV to every scene, every

959
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: single thing that I do, and it doesn't limit me.

960
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that if I'm only doing a movie

961
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 1: about a young black slave who turns into this great scientist,

962
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: I can't write a movie about the Joker. We can

963
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: do all these things. We are not a monolith. We

964
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: can live in so many different worlds. And I think

965
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: it is his confidence that encouraged me today to still

966
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: be you, the authentic you, and I hope that you

967
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 1: were able to take that away. He felt very authentic,

968
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: felt very in touch with what his purpose is. That's

969
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: arguably the bigger point, Like what is your goal? What

970
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: do you want to do? What does that look like?

971
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: Figure all that out, but find out a way to

972
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: do it authentically. And all of these messages, I can

973
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: feel myself saying, Oh, I need that. I needed to

974
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: hear that. I needed to hear that. So today's podcast

975
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 1: for me very restoring. I hope you enjoyed it. We

976
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 1: have how many more episodes left, Jack Quiz?

977
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 2: Four? Three?

978
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 1: Three more episodes left before we push on to a

979
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: season five?

980
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 2: Three? Can you imagine we season five years? Jack Quiz?

981
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 3: Can you still like me after five years?

982
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:51,720
Speaker 2: That's wild? We go together, that's wild. She loves me? Ah,

983
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 2: that's even more wild. Thank you all for listening. We

984
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 2: appreciate you.

985
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 1: Shout out to Dwayne. We ain't seen Dwayne in it forever.

986
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: We're gonna get him back maybe hopefully.

987
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:02,319
Speaker 2: We love you too.

988
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: Duane, thanks for listening and celebrating five years of the

989
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: Black Effect podcast network.

990
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 2: We really appreciate you.

991
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: Keep following and sharing and streaming and telling everyone about

992
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: what we're doing over here, especially for my show Naked Sports,

993
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: because the next five they're about to be even better.

994
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 1: Follow us on all the socials Black Effect. Join the conversation.

995
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: With us at hashtag black Effect turns five and keep

996
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: supporting its most important keep supporting the voices and shifting

997
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: the culture. Naked Sports written and executive produced by me

998
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 1: Carrie Champion, produced by Joacquise Thomas, sound designed and mastered

999
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: by Dwayne Crawford. Naked Sports is a part of the

1000
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: Black Effect podcast

1001
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:43,240
Speaker 2: Network in iHeartMedia