1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: The Michael Berry Show. Welcome to the Weekend podcast. You 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: may or may not be consuming. I like to use 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: work consuming. It's more of the technical data term, the 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: industry term. You might be consuming this podcast on the weekend, 5 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: or you might be consuming it two three weeks later. 6 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: I get the funniest stories from people. Hey, I know 7 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: I'm talking about something you haven't talked about in a while, 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 1: but I'm driving cross country and I loaded all your 9 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: podcasts and I'm listening to them, and you were talking 10 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: about X, and I wanted to tell you that you 11 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: should consider why. And it's always funny because it's something 12 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: I haven't thought about. Doing as much radio as we 13 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: do is creating as much content as we do. I 14 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: have a tendency when I walk out of the studio 15 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: to do a hard reset, and I wipe the hard 16 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: drive of my brain free. I know that sounds dumb, 17 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: but I have to because otherwise it will torture me 18 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: all day and night and I couldn't keep doing what 19 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: I'm doing. We all have weird things, you know. I 20 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: always enjoy hearing the behind the scenes of you know, 21 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: what singers do before they go on stage, or what 22 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: athletes do before they or you know, if a guy's 23 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: are weld or how do you deal with that extreme heat? 24 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: And the little life hacks and preparations and quirks that 25 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: we all have. I like to share a lot of 26 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: ours because I was always interested in it before I 27 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: was in it myself, and I know that some of 28 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: you enjoy hearing that kind of stuff as well. This 29 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: week's podcast is Lorraine Murphy. She's an associate professor of 30 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: English at Hillsdale College. And let me take a moment 31 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: to say a couple of things. Hillsdale College does amazing work, 32 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: amazing and I think it is as important as content 33 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: as anything anybody is putting out in this country today. 34 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: And the reason is everybody wants to rank. You know, 35 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: is this show better than this? They don't need to 36 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: be better. Is the cavalry? 37 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 2: Uh? 38 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: Is the cavalry more important than the artillery? Is the 39 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: artillery more important than the general? Is the Is the 40 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: spitfire more important than the or the looftwaft or the 41 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: whatever plane we're flying more important than the guys on 42 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: the ground. Well, they're all different, and they're all necessary, 43 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: and and and the naval ships as well. So the 44 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: point is we need a little of something. But you know, 45 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: we've got some really good guys out there that are 46 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: doing what I do, really good guys, guys that I 47 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: admire what they do behind the microphone, and I like 48 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: them as people off the air. We've got some of those, 49 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: and I feel like we can always stand to have more. 50 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: And we got to reload because you know, each of 51 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: us is getting older by the day. But what we 52 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: need more of is people who can teach to adults 53 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: who may not have paid attention during school when you 54 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: were learning about the Constitution, when you were learning about 55 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: civic duty and our civic system, and our legacy and 56 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: heritage and Anglo American jurisprudence, all of these things are 57 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: very important fundamentals to developing your theories and your opinions 58 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: and your mindset and sort of your own personal doctrine. 59 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: In most people start in their thirties or later, many 60 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: much later, understanding, Hey, I'm interested in what's going on 61 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: in this country, and I realize things are all wrong. 62 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: I don't know why, but I have a bad feeling 63 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: about it. And they may never have looked at the Constitution, 64 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: they may never have looked at the amendments to them 65 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: they may never have looked at the body of political 66 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: and legal and cultural work that got us to this point. Well, 67 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: there are people who would say that person needs to 68 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: sit down and shut up and not have an opinion. No, 69 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: that's not how this works. No, those are the people 70 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: we need to engage. I can't tell you the wisdom 71 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: I get from listeners, many of whom never went to college. 72 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: They went straight into military, straight to welding school, straight 73 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: to working for a construction company, or driving trucks or 74 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: doing any number of other things. And they may not 75 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: be able to quote me which amendment it is that 76 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: you're right against self incrimination is ensured. But they understand 77 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: why it's important and fundamental to a legal system. And 78 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: they have wisdom because they've developed that wisdom solving problems 79 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: in their field and whatever that may be welding, plumbing, electrical. 80 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: They may have gone through five fields. They may have 81 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: served time in prison, they may have had three divorces. 82 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: They may have had a family where where she took 83 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: the kids and they didn't get to see them, and 84 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: they had to deal with grief, frustration and disappointment and 85 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: hurt and anger without smashing the wall or a human 86 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: being and without becoming an addict. And we have people 87 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: who've been addicts, and they will always be an addict, 88 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: but they've dealt with it, they've come out of it. 89 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 1: There is wisdom in the mass. The whole is greater 90 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: than the sum of the parts. And it's true. We 91 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: don't just need lawyers and politicians to be writing our 92 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,679 Speaker 1: laws and casting our votes. We need people from every 93 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: aspect of life. And yeah, that means Susie homemaker too. 94 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: That means mommy who's may she may never get out 95 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: of her nightgown all day long because she's nursing babies 96 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: and getting them off to school and getting lunches out. 97 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: And guess what, we need her perspective in that process too. 98 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 1: And I think Hillsdale does a great job of being 99 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: the university for the everyman, which was in large part 100 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: what Russia did. Anyway, she's at Hillsdale College. Support Hillsdale College. 101 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: We are big fans of Hillsdale College. They are not 102 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: a show sponsor. I wish they were. I hope one 103 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: day they will be. But she's talking about how great 104 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:26,119 Speaker 1: literature points us toward God. She talks about how good 105 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: readers make good listeners. She talks about what kinds of 106 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: literature are the best at inspiring faith, and why it's 107 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: important to see that we're not always the main character 108 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: in our own stories. We're not always the star. Sometimes 109 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: the path we're on that we don't like is leading 110 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: us to the right destination, and sometimes the path we've 111 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: chosen is wrong, because while it might be dotted with 112 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: all sorts of satisfaction or great temptation, it's going to 113 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: put us in a bad place at the end. I'm 114 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: a big fan of C. S. Lewis and his writings. 115 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: There is great literature out there that you will both 116 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: enjoy reading and develop. I think sort of a Christian 117 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: moral construct to begin looking at your family, the concentric 118 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: circle outside of that, and go out and out and 119 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: out and give you a view of the world that 120 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: will reaffirm your base values, but give you some data 121 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: points and quotations to cite to make you understand. Hey, 122 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: I'm not the first person that's thought it doesn't seem 123 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: right for a man to cut off as Wiener. Not 124 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: the first person that thought it doesn't seem right to 125 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: expose children to sexual content at an early age. That 126 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: was being talked about long before we had computers or 127 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: cell phones. Anyway, that's too much introduction for the segment. 128 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: We do appreciate your support, and I do love to 129 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: hear from you. I enjoy on the weekends when I'm 130 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: less busy, when I get an email because I know 131 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: it's often from a podcast listener who is listening to 132 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: the podcast and hears me say hey, drop me an email. 133 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: Tell me who you are, where you live, what you 134 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 1: like about the show. Do you listen to podcast or 135 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: you listen on air? And if on air, what station? 136 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: Do you know? The call letters kt R H in 137 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: Houston or Kyko and Lubbock or wherever it at k 138 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: EX eleven ninety in Portland. In any case, I do 139 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. You can buy our gear 140 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: while you're there. You can sign up for our daily blast. 141 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: We'll never ever share or sell your data. I square 142 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: to you, and there's a lot more to do there. 143 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: That's all at Michael Berryshow dot com. And with no 144 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 1: further ado. I think you're gonna like this one, and 145 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: you're gonna like this one. This is Lorraine Murphy, Associate 146 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,479 Speaker 1: professor of English at Hillsdale College. 147 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 2: I tend to think that great literature by definition, has 148 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 2: the potential to lead us to God because it's truthful, 149 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 2: because God is true and real, and great literature wants 150 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: to open us to reality. It has to have an 151 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 2: element of transcendence. It doesn't have to be allegorical, it 152 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 2: doesn't have to be a work of fantasy. But it 153 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 2: has to provoke reflection. What are the causes of these events, 154 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 2: What is the meaning of these events? 155 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 3: What is the. 156 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 2: Design that might be discovered? It has to immerse us 157 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 2: in a story, but then take us beyond the story 158 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 2: into realms of reflection, of questioning, of wonder provoked by 159 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 2: the story. If a story encourages us to pay careful, 160 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 2: respectful attention to the world around us, that's going to 161 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 2: tend to cultivate a sense of reverence. But I think 162 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 2: we need more than that, and so I'll mention a 163 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 2: couple of ingredients that I think are essential for a 164 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 2: story to lead us to God. And the first is 165 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 2: a willingness to look at the darkness. We live in 166 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 2: a world where the creation is groaning. Sin is real, 167 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 2: death is real. We hurt one another, we hurt the creation. 168 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 2: All of these things are true. And any story that 169 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: tries to say if we know God everything is great. 170 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 2: Is not paying respectful attention to reality, I would argue, 171 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 2: so there has to be a kind of honesty about 172 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 2: the difficulties that we face within. 173 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 3: Ourselves, around around us. 174 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: But then the second ingredient of a story that will 175 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 2: lead us to God, or that might lead us to God, 176 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 2: is that there's also light. This kind of story will 177 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 2: will still find something in the human spirit, something in 178 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 2: the resilience of creation, something in the mystery of our 179 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 2: place in this world that can be affirmed and even celebrated. 180 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 2: The beautiful thing is that you can trust that kind 181 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 2: of hopeful insight when it comes against the backdrop of 182 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: a willingness to be honest and truthful about all that 183 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 2: is discouraging all that isn't hopeful. 184 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 3: Now, the proportions may be very different. 185 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 2: So in a comedy, for example, a comedy is perfectly 186 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: able to lead us to God. It may take a 187 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 2: brief glance at the darkness and the problems and then 188 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,479 Speaker 2: focus on how resolution is achieved. 189 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 3: A tragedy might reverse those. 190 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 2: Proportions and be very kind of devoted to the dark 191 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: side of things. But nevertheless, even in a tragedy, there 192 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 2: will be elements of light and truths that can be 193 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 2: affirmed will emerge out of that darkness. 194 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 3: In most works of. 195 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 2: Fiction, we have a hero or a heroine, a protagonist 196 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 2: who's at the center of the story, and this person, 197 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,079 Speaker 2: the center of consciousness of the story, is usually trying 198 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 2: to exert control over his or her life. I'll give 199 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 2: an example from Charles Dickens. It's one of my favorite 200 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 2: opening lines in all of literature, and Dickens opens his 201 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 2: semi autobiographical novel David Copperfield with this line, whether I 202 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 2: shall turn out to be the hero of my own 203 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 2: life or whether that station will be held by anybody else? 204 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 2: These pages must show. And that's the challenge he sets 205 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 2: himself in this work is will David will narrator? 206 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 3: Will he turn out to be the hero of his 207 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 3: own life? Will he star in his own story? And 208 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,319 Speaker 3: you read that opening, and you think I'm cheering for him? Right? 209 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 3: You know? I want him to be the hero of 210 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 3: his own life. 211 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 2: Don't let anybody else take that spot away from him. 212 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 2: But of course, as we proceed through this long novel, 213 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 2: what we find is that David Copperfield is not able 214 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 2: to exert total control over other people and his surroundings, 215 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 2: and in fact, any story in which a character did 216 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 2: exert control. 217 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 3: Wouldn't have a plot. 218 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 2: It's not even a plot by Aristotle's definition, it's not interesting. 219 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 2: What we find instead is that David Copperfield, or any 220 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 2: other hero or heroin is fixed in a web of 221 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 2: reality that includes countless other people, countless events, countless mysterious 222 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 2: forces that he doesn't understand, and his story is shaped 223 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 2: by all of this, and not just by his own will. 224 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 2: He's a character, he's a creature. He's made by another. 225 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 2: And that's the insight that I think. 226 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 3: We come to again and again when we. 227 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 2: Read great literature, is that, in fact, there are forces 228 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 2: at work in reality that are larger than the individual will, 229 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 2: and we realize that it's not me scripting my story. 230 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 2: I'm being scripted by another story. I'm used by another 231 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 2: for a story that is more beautiful than any story 232 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 2: that I could imagine. I think great literature takes us 233 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: again and again to this posture of humility and of 234 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: wonder and of reverence, and that sense of surrendering control 235 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 2: of the story. Shakespeare's Hamlet arrives at this insight, and 236 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 2: in Act five he has a revenge plot in mind, 237 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 2: but he ends up saying, I'm just going to drop 238 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 2: that because there's a special providence in the fall the sparrow. 239 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 2: People who love stories, who spend a lot of time reading, 240 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 2: spend a lot of time immersed in language. So this 241 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 2: is in some ways the most obvious and banal, and 242 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 2: yet yet I think, I think there's something profound in 243 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 2: this insight is that when we spend time with words, 244 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 2: we're exposed to the wonder of what words can do. 245 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: You know, words that are artfully arranged can give us 246 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 2: new perceptions, can expand our minds. I don't have to 247 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 2: leave my living room in order to travel to another world. Really, 248 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: well used words will open up other worlds. There's not 249 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 2: just escapism here, but there's a sense that a voice 250 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 2: is coming to me from Afar, and this voice understands 251 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 2: something about me. 252 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 3: And about my world. 253 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 2: It also calls me on to new knowledge. 254 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 3: And new experiences. 255 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 2: That is a really miraculous thing that word can accomplish. Now, 256 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 2: the ultimate miracle here is not that we can communicate 257 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 2: with one another through language, but that God communicates with us. 258 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 2: And Christ is famously the word made flesh. Christ comes 259 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 2: to us as the logos as the absolutely true word, 260 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 2: so that words can be true, and that words can. 261 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 3: Lead us to truth. I mean, that's a fundamental Christian insight. 262 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 2: And I won't say that just spending a lot of 263 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 2: time reading will give you that insight, But spending a 264 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 2: lot of time reading, especially reading good things, will, I 265 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 2: think give you a respect for what language can do. 266 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 2: And I do think that the most powerful stories say 267 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 2: something to us. You are understood, you are not alone. 268 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 2: But come look at this. Come move outside of yourself 269 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 2: into the experience of another person, into another plot, into 270 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 2: another story. A reader of great works will say, Oh, 271 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 2: there's so much I can hear, There's so much I 272 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 2: can learn. If I expose myself to the literary tradition, 273 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 2: I'm going to listen. 274 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 3: I'm going to listen carefully. And if we. 275 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 2: Have a posture of humility and a posture of listening, 276 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 2: I think that's exactly the kind of disposition of mind 277 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 2: and heart and soul that God. 278 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 3: Will speak into. 279 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 2: And so I do believe that immersing ourselves in the 280 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 2: literary tradition and in great stories. 281 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 3: Can lead us to God. 282 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: If your life the Michael Berry Show in podcast, please 283 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: tell one friend, and if you're so inclined write a 284 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: nice review of our podcast. 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