Speaker 1: The year, and actor Edward James almost is on his
Speaker 1: way to becoming a Hollywood icon. Coming off an OSCAR
Speaker 1: nomination for his iconic role in Standard Deliver, Edward James
Speaker 1: almost earned the biggest opportunity yet for a Latino filmmaker
Speaker 1: to direct and star in a major Hollywood release, and
Speaker 1: he chose a controversial subject for his territorial debut, The
Speaker 1: Mexican Mafia, a notorious prison in street gang that at
Speaker 1: the time was at the height of its powers. It
Speaker 1: was a bold move and it didn't end well. That
Speaker 1: film was called American Mean. The critics liked the movie,
Speaker 1: but the Mexican Mafia did not. Just weeks after the premiere,
Speaker 1: several people who worked on the movie were murdered. Almost
Speaker 1: never addressed the killings. He still hasn't. Maybe it's because
Speaker 1: allegedly he himself was threatened and extorted. In fact, while
Speaker 1: I've been researching and interviewing people related to this film
Speaker 1: that came out thirty years ago, over and over again,
Speaker 1: I get eerily similar responses like I won't talk about that,
Speaker 1: or flat out told leave this alone. More than a movie,
Speaker 1: American Means a podcast that digs into the history and
Speaker 1: Mystery of American Mean, a film directed by and starring
Speaker 1: Edward James almost that had a huge impact on Latino
Speaker 1: culture and cinema. I'm your host, Alex Fumeto, and I'll
Speaker 1: be diving into the controversy behind the movie. The early
Speaker 1: was an explosion of pop culture in l A about
Speaker 1: l a bloody blood out. So the nineties was just
Speaker 1: the like hangover from you know, the Cold War. I
Speaker 1: don't know, there's a lot of nineties nineties nostalgia now,
Speaker 1: but I remember being afraid every day, like hy two
Speaker 1: k hiv uh, the gangs, the police. Like it feels
Speaker 1: very similar to like these past few years of COVID
Speaker 1: in terms of like just the angst and fear that
Speaker 1: you can just feel from the community. That's Eric Allindo,
Speaker 1: a Mexican American writer and producer that grew up right
Speaker 1: here in Los Angeles. Eric is right. L A in
Speaker 1: the nineties was scary to a lot of Angelinos, but
Speaker 1: the fear level went to new heights when the l A.
Speaker 1: P d brutally beat a man named Rodney King. Another
Speaker 1: movie came out from a script that had been kicking
Speaker 1: around for years. It was a movie about Latino gangs
Speaker 1: in l A. Al Pacino was allegedly slated to play
Speaker 1: the lead role. We all know ol loves to play Latinos,
Speaker 1: but in the blowback to Scarface, the studio got cold feet,
Speaker 1: like a lot of movies in Hollywood have got put
Speaker 1: on the shelf until the Latino actor emerged as a
Speaker 1: potential movie star. Edward James, almost fresh off a nomination
Speaker 1: for an Academy Award, was offered the role. In response,
Speaker 1: almost all the studio he would take the part if
Speaker 1: he could also direct. After some back and forth and
Speaker 1: some assurances that are more experienced read white director would
Speaker 1: be around to help Eddie, they agreed, but almost had
Speaker 1: something different in mine for the script. He wanted it
Speaker 1: to feel real, to be connected to his roots as
Speaker 1: a Chicano in East l A. And to address what
Speaker 1: he felt was tearing his community apart gang violence. But
Speaker 1: to do that, he did something that many people thought
Speaker 1: was brave but others thought was reckless. The Arian Brotherhood
Speaker 1: and the Blood Gorilla Family shared the yard, but fulsome
Speaker 1: belonged to us. The oldest clicker me the Mexican Mafia.
Speaker 1: He made the movie about a real gang, one of
Speaker 1: the most intimidating and dangerous prison and street gangs of
Speaker 1: all time. The Mexican Mafia a k a. A gang
Speaker 1: that survives today and was no less powerful thirty years
Speaker 1: ago when Edward James almost decided to base the movie
Speaker 1: on what he claimed was a true story about them,
Speaker 1: then people started dying. The movie was called American Me.
Speaker 1: Here's one of the actors, Danny de la Pass, when
Speaker 1: he found out someone who had worked on the movie
Speaker 1: had just been killed. We were in France, um along
Speaker 1: the Riviera at the con Film Festival with American Me
Speaker 1: when we heard the news of Anna's assassination basically, and uh,
Speaker 1: I remember feeling a little bit scared. I was in
Speaker 1: a foreign country, I was far from home, and I
Speaker 1: was like, Wow, what am I going to be going
Speaker 1: back home to The Anna he's referring to is Anna Lissaraga,
Speaker 1: who was a gang interventionist hired by the movie as
Speaker 1: a gang liaison, and on May thirteenth, she was gunned
Speaker 1: down in her East l A driveway while unloading groceries.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it made sense that Danny de la Pace
Speaker 1: was scared back then. Today thirty years later, it's hard
Speaker 1: to get people to talk about it. Here's another American Me,
Speaker 1: actor Sal Lopez. My job was to do my part,
Speaker 1: and I didn't feel uh, you know, intimidated or or
Speaker 1: anything like that. I mean, I was focused on doing
Speaker 1: the work and making a good film. I um, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't want to speak about. This is a movie
Speaker 1: people still don't want to talk about. Some of them
Speaker 1: are scared of the consequences to themselves. Some of them
Speaker 1: want to protect the movies director Edward James. Almost some
Speaker 1: of them don't see why we want to dredge up
Speaker 1: the past. I wanted to make this podcast because as
Speaker 1: a filmmaker, American Me was an precedented opportunity for Latinos
Speaker 1: in Hollywood, a Latino director, cast, and crew. But I
Speaker 1: also think it's worth asking two questions. One why were
Speaker 1: people killed for making a movie? And two why did
Speaker 1: Edward James almost make this movie when people warned him
Speaker 1: again and again it was dangerous. We'll dig into the
Speaker 1: history and mysteries around one film that had a huge
Speaker 1: impact on the culture. We're talking about American Me. Think
Speaker 1: of this podcast like an audio documentary. The first half
Speaker 1: of this twelve episode series is going to be about
Speaker 1: the Hollywood rumors and word on the street that have
Speaker 1: surrounded this movie for thirty years. In the second half
Speaker 1: of the episodes, though we're going to do our best
Speaker 1: to get down to the truth, let's start with the rumors.
Speaker 1: Even today, people are still afraid to talk about this movie.
Speaker 1: We had people canceled interviews or refuse to talk on
Speaker 1: the record. I spent hours in person, over coffee or
Speaker 1: on the phone talking to high level people who had
Speaker 1: worked on this film, who, at the end of our
Speaker 1: really candid conversation would say to me they would never
Speaker 1: talk on the record. We had people call us from
Speaker 1: block numbers so we wouldn't know who was calling. One
Speaker 1: lawyer agreed to talk to us, then her husband told
Speaker 1: her not to. He was still afraid for their safety.
Speaker 1: Three decades later, I've pieced together the parts of the
Speaker 1: story I can. It all started with a chapter in
Speaker 1: a memoir by Danny Trejo, better known as or a
Speaker 1: million other roles as the scariest looking motherfucker You've ever seen.
Speaker 1: Here's Treho talking about it to lad TV. The person
Speaker 1: in charge of that movie made a lot of mistakes.
Speaker 1: American Edwards James almost admitted, do you know him? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I saved his life, really, and he won't admit that either.
Speaker 1: See Treho, who's not in the movie, is a pivotal
Speaker 1: figure in this story. According to him, this is how
Speaker 1: it went. Edward James almost never got permission from the
Speaker 1: met Pxican Mafia to tell this story. Before it even
Speaker 1: went into production, key members of the gang had read
Speaker 1: the script and warned Trey Hoo not to work on
Speaker 1: the movie. During production, Trejo says he was asked to
Speaker 1: be a consultant, but refused to do it out of
Speaker 1: respect for the gang. When the movie finally premiered, the
Speaker 1: Mexican Mafia was enraged almost had fabricated important details about
Speaker 1: their lives. Here's Treho again. You just gotta be real
Speaker 1: careful about telling the truth. Okay. The leader of Mexican
Speaker 1: Mafia was never raped, all right, So that's number one.
Speaker 1: You can hear in his voice. This still makes Danny
Speaker 1: Traho matt portraying the rape of the gang's leader, which
Speaker 1: never happened and could never happen to someone elevated to
Speaker 1: the leader of the Mexican Mafia got people killed. Now,
Speaker 1: let's say this right away. Getting raped doesn't make you weak.
Speaker 1: Getting assaulted isn't anyone's fault, but according to federal indictments
Speaker 1: and according to Trejo, for the Mexican mafia, it's one
Speaker 1: of four reasons to turn people away from the gang.
Speaker 1: See the movie tends to make its point using rape.
Speaker 1: I don't know how else to say it. When Santana
Speaker 1: is a kid, he's raped in juvie. When his mom
Speaker 1: gets pregnant, she's raped by a sailor. When Santana gets
Speaker 1: out of prison, he starts to rape his girlfriend. The
Speaker 1: gang uses rape as a punishment in prison, So of
Speaker 1: course it enraged the Mexican mafia. And that's what Trejo
Speaker 1: said numerous times during the promotional campaign for his book.
Speaker 1: He talked to g Q, flat TV, Stevo, pretty much
Speaker 1: everybody except us. Of course, Danny didn't want to talk
Speaker 1: about American men anymore. I can't say why for certain.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's because the book has been out already for
Speaker 1: more than a year and he's done promoting it. Or
Speaker 1: maybe it's because, according to one source, he and almost
Speaker 1: had a difficult phone conversation after the book's release. But
Speaker 1: even without Danny Trejo's account, rumors have flown about for years.
Speaker 1: One of them is undoubtedly true. At least three people
Speaker 1: were killed after this movie came out, and court records
Speaker 1: say it was partly because of their volvement. But there's
Speaker 1: other mercier allegations. The big one is that Edward James
Speaker 1: almost had a price on his head. The rumor is
Speaker 1: almost had to pay the Mexican mafia some amount of
Speaker 1: money to stay alive. Some people told us it was
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars. One person told us it was
Speaker 1: a million. But no one with firsthand knowledge has confirmed this,
Speaker 1: and rumors are just that rumors. There's another allegation, this
Speaker 1: one from Danny Trejo. At least four people in prison
Speaker 1: were killed because of their participation in this movie. Trejo
Speaker 1: says in total, eight or as many as ten people
Speaker 1: were killed in connection with the film, without their names,
Speaker 1: though we can't say whether it's true or not, and
Speaker 1: when it comes to people's lives, there's a big difference
Speaker 1: between eight and ten. Some of the stuff Trejo said
Speaker 1: we were able to verify, some of it is directly
Speaker 1: contradicted in our interviews, and some of it we can't
Speaker 1: say either way. What I'm saying is take his account
Speaker 1: with a big grain assault and Danny. If you ever
Speaker 1: want to talk, our lines are open. We'll get into
Speaker 1: it after the break. Welcome back to More Than a Movie.
Speaker 1: I'm Alex Fumetro, and I'm here to take you through
Speaker 1: the myths and legends surrounding American Me. The story of
Speaker 1: American Me is the story of Montoya Santana, almost based
Speaker 1: a character on the real life founder of the Mexican Mafia.
Speaker 1: But let's try to separate fact from fiction a little
Speaker 1: bit here. The movie puts a young Santana in juvie
Speaker 1: where he starts a gang that also happened to the
Speaker 1: real life guy. Santana grows up as the best friend
Speaker 1: of a white guy with a prosthetic leg in a
Speaker 1: Latino gang that's also based on real life, and Santana
Speaker 1: gets stabbed to death and thrown off a railing in prison.
Speaker 1: That's what happened to Gala. From reporting Trejo's book, court records,
Speaker 1: and the stuff we learned in interviews and on back round,
Speaker 1: it seems like the Mexican Mafia took exception with their
Speaker 1: portrayal in this movie. Remember that white guy with the
Speaker 1: fake leg, his name is Joe Morgan and he filed
Speaker 1: a lawsuit in against Edward James Almost and the Studio Universal.
Speaker 1: He said the movie quote invaded his right to privacy
Speaker 1: by appropriating his likeness and life story end quote. What
Speaker 1: that means is the movie stole his life story, lied
Speaker 1: about him in that life story, then profited. Here's his lawyer,
Speaker 1: Milton Grimes. There was some dispute as to some of
Speaker 1: the things they portrayed Mr Morrigan in and there was
Speaker 1: some disagreement with people that were knowledgeable are involved in
Speaker 1: the Mexican Association. And uh, they disagreed with some of
Speaker 1: the portrayals in their of Mr Morgan, and um, some
Speaker 1: disputes and disagreements came out of that, and um that's
Speaker 1: what happened. Joe's nickname was peg Leg for obvious reasons.
Speaker 1: He claimed in the lawsuit that his character committed several
Speaker 1: murders that the real life Joe Morgan was never charged with.
Speaker 1: He said his kids and his grandkids would see the
Speaker 1: movie and think it was all true. Rather than me
Speaker 1: in a terror, a monster that would attack and I
Speaker 1: was supposed to shiver in front of I remember him
Speaker 1: being a mild mannered, grandfatherly type. To be honest with you,
Speaker 1: the monster was not there, and I have to admit
Speaker 1: that I had some concerns with meeting the infamous Joe Morrigan.
Speaker 1: Only exhibit that Morgan's legal team entered into evidence was
Speaker 1: a VHS copy of American Me. But most of the
Speaker 1: people offended by this movie didn't take their problems to court.
Speaker 1: The three murders we could directly connect to the movie
Speaker 1: were of gang members and a gang interventionist hired by
Speaker 1: the movie as a gang liaison. Her name was Anna Saraga.
Speaker 1: Lisaraga was already marked for death before this movie, according
Speaker 1: to federal court filings. At meeting recorded by the police,
Speaker 1: a Mexican mafia member said that Li Saraga was interfering
Speaker 1: with drug trafficking on their turf, but it wasn't until
Speaker 1: she participated in American Me that she was shot thirteen
Speaker 1: times in her driveway. One of the shooters was initiated
Speaker 1: into the Mexican Mafia because of the murder. In line
Speaker 1: with almost his commitment to making this movie true to life,
Speaker 1: the production used people from the neighborhood as extras. Some
Speaker 1: of those extras were in rival gangs and that caused
Speaker 1: some problems. We'll talk to the casting director and the
Speaker 1: location manager who had to deal with all that. One
Speaker 1: person we won't talk to, and I want to be
Speaker 1: up front about this is Edward James. Almost through a
Speaker 1: mutual friend, he told us he quote, can't talk about
Speaker 1: American Me. Can't let that settle in. When American Me
Speaker 1: went into production, Edward James almost was on a roll
Speaker 1: Blade Runner, Miami Vice and of course Stand and Deliver,
Speaker 1: which got him an Oscar nam and probably more importantly
Speaker 1: to him, positioned him as a role model for the community.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do that if I was you. When he
Speaker 1: was a finger, I won't be able to come to tan.
Speaker 1: Like many actors at the height of his fame, almost
Speaker 1: wanted to direct, and he picked this script, a script
Speaker 1: about a gang that's not totally unexpected after the success
Speaker 1: Italian American filmmakers had seen with The Godfather and Goodfellas.
Speaker 1: Who didn't watch those two movies and wish they were
Speaker 1: part of the mob? I certainly did. When Andy Garcia
Speaker 1: became The Godfather, I felt like I had been made.
Speaker 1: But American Me was supposed to be about how the
Speaker 1: gangster life is a total fantasy, a nightmare really in
Speaker 1: that way. The story of American Me is a success,
Speaker 1: but the story of American Me is also a failure
Speaker 1: because the movie it was intended to prevent gang violence,
Speaker 1: instead caused more of it. Here's actor Jacob Vargas. Do
Speaker 1: you see any irony in a film that was intended
Speaker 1: to stop gang violence that may maybe it actually recruited
Speaker 1: more people to I mean, I guess there is some
Speaker 1: irony in that, but but I feel like I'm sure
Speaker 1: it probably stopped a few kids, you know, Like I'm
Speaker 1: sure a lot of people will see that and say,
Speaker 1: hey that I don't want any part of that as well.
Speaker 1: It's like with certain movies, you know, it can it
Speaker 1: can be singled out that American mu is the only one,
Speaker 1: like you look at like, you know, the Good Fellows
Speaker 1: and these other films that are that are cautionary tales
Speaker 1: about the mafia, you know, in a way tend to
Speaker 1: glorify it, you know. And then just because you know,
Speaker 1: these actors did a really good job, and all these
Speaker 1: characters work were cool and and uh, you know, Santana
Speaker 1: was like a cool dude, and you know, he was
Speaker 1: in charge and and uh, you know, it held a
Speaker 1: lot of power. So I just think there's an intertract
Speaker 1: and to to that, and some people will look at
Speaker 1: that above above what the real meaning of of you
Speaker 1: know the film is that it's a vicious cycle. American
Speaker 1: Mew was successful in most of the ways the movie
Speaker 1: is supposed to succeed. Roger Ebert gave it three and
Speaker 1: a half stars. It premiered, it can It didn't make
Speaker 1: a lot of money, but it wasn't a massive financial
Speaker 1: failure either, and it went on to become a fan favorite.
Speaker 1: But still the controversy surrounding it has always overshadowed the success.
Speaker 1: This was a majority Chicano production film, Denis l A.
Speaker 1: If it had gone right, it could have been the
Speaker 1: next Good Fellas or Boys in the Hood, a movie
Speaker 1: that launched careers. There could have been tons of mid
Speaker 1: nineties imitation movies like How Standing Deliver gave Us Dangerous
Speaker 1: Minds and my favorite Seven Stupid Any End. But most
Speaker 1: of all, Edward James almost could have become our Robert
Speaker 1: de Niro and our Martin Scorsese. Don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: he's a huge success. He has a career anyone would
Speaker 1: be proud of. But that what if bothers me, especially
Speaker 1: when latinos make up one in five Americans, but only
Speaker 1: one in twenty actors on screen. I wonder if it
Speaker 1: bothers him too. Welcome back to more than a movie,
Speaker 1: American Me. I'm Alex flomto. About a month after American
Speaker 1: Me premiered, an uprising broke out across l A. Stores burned,
Speaker 1: people were scared. It was the result of racial tensions
Speaker 1: and police brutality in the powder keg that was Los
Speaker 1: Angeles in the early People complain today about how crime
Speaker 1: is on the rise, but that's only true if you
Speaker 1: look at the last two years. Today, a one in
Speaker 1: twenty thousand people is killed each year in l A.
Speaker 1: In the early nineties it was one in five thousand people,
Speaker 1: four times higher. Joe Biden, who was a senator back then,
Speaker 1: called the most violent period in American history, where in
Speaker 1: the worst period of violent crime in the entire history
Speaker 1: of this great country. Ninety thousand Americans will have been
Speaker 1: murdered in the first term of this administration. Ninety thousand
Speaker 1: Americans murdered by the end of this year. Murderer is
Speaker 1: the number one cause of death in American Mr. President
Speaker 1: among the entire American population of fifteen to twenty four
Speaker 1: year olds. It's the second leading cause of death. Writer
Speaker 1: Eric Galindo was in elementary school when he saw smoke
Speaker 1: from the fires caused by the so called La riots.
Speaker 1: And remember one day, like the teachers were just like, um,
Speaker 1: they they took us all out to like the field,
Speaker 1: you know, and we could see they were burning, uh Summerset,
Speaker 1: which was Compton Boulevard at the time, and our school
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know, it was definitely walking distance
Speaker 1: from like the little liquor stores that were getting burnt
Speaker 1: down the street, and you can see the fire. We're
Speaker 1: waiting for our parents what was happening. But as soon
Speaker 1: as we started seeing the smoke get really close to us,
Speaker 1: they just had us run. And I remember running and
Speaker 1: being so afraid because you know, by this time, the
Speaker 1: riots have been going on for a minute, and I
Speaker 1: had to hurd stories of the police shooting people who
Speaker 1: were just running, you know. And I remember running and
Speaker 1: being afraid that I was going to get shot by
Speaker 1: a cop, thinking I had stolen some ship, you know.
Speaker 1: And like I had my little brother who was only
Speaker 1: two years younger than me, and I was just like
Speaker 1: running home and then like getting home and locking the
Speaker 1: doors and just not not knowing, like well, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's weird because it was like you're afraid, there's chaos,
Speaker 1: you know, and here's Milton Grimes again, who was also
Speaker 1: Rodney King's attorney. But that verdict in Semi Valley, man Um,
Speaker 1: it felt like a mew had kicked me in my stomach,
Speaker 1: you know, like back in the country we always were warned,
Speaker 1: don't go behind that horseboard, don't go behind that me
Speaker 1: kick kill you. And it felt like I had been
Speaker 1: kicked in the stomach. You know. It was painful. So
Speaker 1: I understand the young people involved. I've represented Henry Watson
Speaker 1: and I represented uh Damian Williams football after that on
Speaker 1: other matters, okay, and talked to them about what happened
Speaker 1: with Reginald Dinny and they said, no, he ain't do nothing,
Speaker 1: that white man and do nothing wrong to us. It
Speaker 1: was just our anger, that's all. It was anger and white.
Speaker 1: We did get lucky in one respect. All the time
Speaker 1: they were filming the movie, there was a documentary crew
Speaker 1: following the production. What they made was a dot called
Speaker 1: Lives and Hazard and it's great because you get to
Speaker 1: hear from the real life gang members at the time
Speaker 1: this movie was made. You struggle here and and and
Speaker 1: you gotta find a way of making money. And you know,
Speaker 1: my you know, robbing got old, and stealing got old,
Speaker 1: and drugs seem to be easier to make money. And
Speaker 1: my easiest way was at the time was pushing PCP.
Speaker 1: I was liking it, and I was living the fast
Speaker 1: lane toil like hit the wrong car and sold of
Speaker 1: the wrong person, and that's what started my career in institutions.
Speaker 1: I heard like the shot, so when I heard the
Speaker 1: car behind me, I knew it was a drive by.
Speaker 1: I turned as when I turned as when he shot
Speaker 1: me in the back. We talked to the filmmakers of
Speaker 1: that documentary too. This is one of the directors, Andrew Young.
Speaker 1: These are people who are neglected, you know, they're not
Speaker 1: paid attention to and in fact, that's that can be
Speaker 1: cited as part of the problem. Um they look for
Speaker 1: their own system of self generating self respect because they're
Speaker 1: not getting it from society. American Me was a major
Speaker 1: studio film released in theaters across the country, but it
Speaker 1: lost money. It only played in about eight hundred theaters
Speaker 1: and made thirty million dollars. My cousin Vinny, which was
Speaker 1: released the exact same day, made fifty two million, but
Speaker 1: in almost twice as many theaters. At first, I thought
Speaker 1: that's some racist Hollywood bullshit. They didn't promote it or
Speaker 1: didn't put it in enough theaters. But then we heard
Speaker 1: in our interviews that this movie didn't play well with
Speaker 1: older Chicano audiences at the time. Today, American Me is
Speaker 1: a cult classic to young Latinos, but back then it
Speaker 1: seemed to confuse or piss off their parents. They saw
Speaker 1: it as a film that made their culture look violent,
Speaker 1: But to me, it reflected some of the real problems
Speaker 1: our culture still has to this day. We're gonna talk
Speaker 1: in this podcast about issues like machismo and homophobia and violence,
Speaker 1: how this movie both pushed back against it but also
Speaker 1: reinforced it. We'll break down the decisions made by the
Speaker 1: cast and the crew, both on set and in pre production.
Speaker 1: We'll meet some of the people behind the scenes and
Speaker 1: in front of the camera and try to tell the
Speaker 1: stories of the people who were caught in the crossfire.
Speaker 1: I'm a documentary filmmaker and a Latino who has been
Speaker 1: working in the entertainment industry for twenty years. If there's
Speaker 1: one thing I know. It's the way Latinos are portrayed
Speaker 1: and treated in Hollywood. And that's why when I heard
Speaker 1: the story of American Met, I knew it was about
Speaker 1: more than just the movie, or the rumors or even
Speaker 1: the fallout. What happened to American Me is about who
Speaker 1: we are as a people and what could have been.
Speaker 1: This is more than a movie. American Met more than
Speaker 1: a movie. American Me is a production of Exile Content
Speaker 1: Studios in Trojan Horse in partnership with My Hearts Michael
Speaker 1: da podcast Network. The show is produced by me Alex
Speaker 1: Fumetto at Anger Yuka on the Internets and our senior producers.
Speaker 1: Nigel Dora, Rose Read and Cream Taps are the executive producers.
Speaker 1: Production assistance from Sabine Jansen and out Valio and Stella Emmett.
Speaker 1: Mixing and sound designed by the bottom Us. Our executive
Speaker 1: producers at I Heeart are Gazelle Bonsas and Arlee and Santan.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts, listen to the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1: H