WEBVTT - Dock Ellis: High and Outside

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<v Speaker 1>In the spring of two thousand and eight, former Major

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<v Speaker 1>League pitcher Doc Ellis sat down for an interview with

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<v Speaker 1>American public media show Weekend America. He was sixty three

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<v Speaker 1>years old at the time. He recalled for listeners the

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<v Speaker 1>day back in nineteen seventy when he threw a no

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<v Speaker 1>hitter on LSD. As Doc told it.

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<v Speaker 2>We flew into San Diego and I asked the manager

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<v Speaker 2>could I go home because we had.

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<v Speaker 1>An off day?

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<v Speaker 3>So he said yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So I took some LSD.

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<v Speaker 2>At the airport because I knew where it would hit me.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd be in my own little area and I know

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<v Speaker 2>where to go. So that's how I got to my

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<v Speaker 2>friend's girlfriend's house. She said, what's wrong with you? As

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<v Speaker 2>I'm High's at Georgia Park.

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<v Speaker 1>There he is on his supposed day off, and he's

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<v Speaker 1>got a head full of acid. Now, Doc Ellis's off

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<v Speaker 1>days were often colored with what you might call a

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<v Speaker 1>psychedelic purple haze, But on this particular day off, Doc

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<v Speaker 1>had a big surprise waiting for him. In the middle

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<v Speaker 1>of his acid trip.

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<v Speaker 2>The next day, which I thought was the next day,

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<v Speaker 2>she told me, you better get up, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Gotta go pitch. I said, pitch I pitched tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 3>Hell, what are you talking about? Because I had got.

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<v Speaker 1>Up in the middle of the morning. It took some

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<v Speaker 1>more acid. Only after he double dipped on the LSD

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<v Speaker 1>does Doc learn from his friend's girlfriend that he is

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<v Speaker 1>scheduled to be on the mound to pitch a game

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<v Speaker 1>in San Diego, part of a double header scheduled for

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<v Speaker 1>later that same day. Plus Doc is in the wrong city.

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<v Speaker 2>She grabbed the paper, brought me to sports page and

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<v Speaker 2>showed me boom. I said, oh wow, what happened to yesterday?

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<v Speaker 2>She said, I don't know, but you better get you

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<v Speaker 2>better get to that airport.

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<v Speaker 1>Still flying high, Doc races to the airport to catch

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<v Speaker 1>a shuttle flight from Los Angeles to San Diego, the

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<v Speaker 1>kind that leaves every half hour. In an interview with

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<v Speaker 1>Kevin McAllister, doc Ellis tried to recall that ride, but

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<v Speaker 1>he could not. He had to admit he didn't remember

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<v Speaker 1>quote a goddamn thing about that part of his trip.

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<v Speaker 1>We do know the flight is short, and when the

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<v Speaker 1>plane lands, doc Ellis is still flying high on LSD.

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<v Speaker 1>Somehow he manages to catch a taxi caab from the

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<v Speaker 1>airport out to the ballpark. That's the first part of

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<v Speaker 1>this strange adventure that he rightly recalls. When the Cabby

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<v Speaker 1>asks him where he wants to go, Doc tells him quote,

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<v Speaker 1>get to the stadium. I got to play.

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<v Speaker 3>Now.

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<v Speaker 1>As luck would have it, Doc makes it to the

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<v Speaker 1>ballpark in time for the game. Next thing he knows,

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<v Speaker 1>he's seated once more, this time in the locker room

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<v Speaker 1>in San Diego Stadium. It's right around five o'clock in

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<v Speaker 1>the afternoon, just about game time, and he still has

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<v Speaker 1>that head full of acid. Doc thinks to himself, guess

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna have to pitch this game. Fully tripping a

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<v Speaker 1>second thought, fall was close. On the heels of that

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<v Speaker 1>first thought, Doc considers the idea that perhaps taking even

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<v Speaker 1>more drugs is the prescription for his predicament. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe some speed will help even things out for him.

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<v Speaker 2>When I got to the game, there was a lady

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<v Speaker 2>down there in San Diego, so I always had the

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<v Speaker 2>bennies for me, Benza Green, which is another stimulant. I

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<v Speaker 2>went out to the dugout and reached up because she

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<v Speaker 2>was standing over the rails.

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<v Speaker 1>She always stood over the rail and had.

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<v Speaker 4>A pretty little gold pouch.

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<v Speaker 2>So I got to Benny's went on back in the

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<v Speaker 2>cloud house took them.

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<v Speaker 1>This might not be the ideal solution most folks would

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<v Speaker 1>come up with, but as Doc Ellis recalls, taking speed

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<v Speaker 1>and playing a ballgame, wasn't that uncommon in baseball at

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<v Speaker 1>the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, this was in the seventies, and greens was deximials.

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<v Speaker 2>That was the drug of choice back then, was a stimulant.

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<v Speaker 2>Over ninety percent of major leagues was using deximal when

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<v Speaker 2>I was playing.

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<v Speaker 1>So now it's just moments before the game scheduled to

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<v Speaker 1>start at six oh five PM. Doc sits in the

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<v Speaker 1>dugout watching the skies. There are clouds overhead. Perhaps he'll

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<v Speaker 1>be saved by a change in the weather, maybe the

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<v Speaker 1>game will get rained out. Doc sees the umpire walk

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<v Speaker 1>out onto the diamond. He bends down to brush off

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<v Speaker 1>home plate. Then the umpire gazes up to check those

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<v Speaker 1>same cloudy skies. Seeing no imminent rain, he signals for

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<v Speaker 1>the national anthem to begin. Watching this all go down,

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<v Speaker 1>Doc Ellis knows his fate is sealed. Damn looks like

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna have to pitch. And so now, with his

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<v Speaker 1>mind and body fully loaded on both LSD and stimulants,

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<v Speaker 1>and with the drugs working him in two very different directions,

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<v Speaker 1>Doc strides out onto the baseball diamond to meet his fate.

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<v Speaker 1>He takes the mound.

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<v Speaker 2>The game started, and the miss started misty rain, so

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<v Speaker 2>all doing the game was a little missed.

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<v Speaker 1>The weather never turns into a full on rain storm. Instead,

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<v Speaker 1>this light, misty rain gives the ballgame a strange, otherworldly feel,

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<v Speaker 1>almost mystical. And just like that, the stage is set

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<v Speaker 1>at San Diego Stadium. All Doc has to do is pitch,

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<v Speaker 1>Just focus in and get that ball over the plate.

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<v Speaker 1>Most everyone else on the field can sense something isn't

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<v Speaker 1>quite right with Doc. In the documentary No No, A documentary,

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<v Speaker 1>one of Doc's teammates on the Pittsburgh Pirates says, quote,

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't know anything was wrong until the national anthem.

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<v Speaker 1>But as Doc recalls, he could sense that the other

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<v Speaker 1>players knew something was up with him.

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<v Speaker 2>The opposing team and my teammates danieoron was high, but

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<v Speaker 2>they didn't know what I was high, or if they

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<v Speaker 2>had no idea what LSD was other than what they

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<v Speaker 2>see on TV with the hippies.

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<v Speaker 1>If they knew about the LSD or not. They're about

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<v Speaker 1>to bear witness to one of the greatest and one

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<v Speaker 1>of the strangest games in the history of Major League Baseball,

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<v Speaker 1>a no hitter on Acid. Welcome to very special episodes

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<v Speaker 1>and iHeart original podcast. I'm your host, Zaren Burnett, and

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<v Speaker 1>this is Doc Ellis Hi and outside.

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<v Speaker 5>Welcome back to very special episodes. My name is Jason English.

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<v Speaker 5>I am joined as always by Dana Schwartz, Hi and

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<v Speaker 5>Zaren Burnett's what's up?

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<v Speaker 1>So, guys, have we talked before.

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<v Speaker 5>About the Snapple fact test? No? No, okay, So this

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<v Speaker 5>goes back to the days when Snapple used to put

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<v Speaker 5>those like fun facts on the inside of the bottle.

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<v Speaker 1>Color Yeah, And I use that.

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<v Speaker 5>When we're evaluating ideas that we're going to run with,

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<v Speaker 5>and in some cases, the Snapple fact distillation of an

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<v Speaker 5>idea is just the most interesting version, and you don't

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<v Speaker 5>need another. I certainly don't need an hour explanation of

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<v Speaker 5>why it's interesting. Take, for example, sea otters hold hands

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<v Speaker 5>while sleeping so they don't drift apart like delightful love it.

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<v Speaker 5>But I want to know anything more about that. I

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<v Speaker 5>don't want to hear why that evolved or what they're

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<v Speaker 5>what would happen if if they happened to drift apart.

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<v Speaker 5>The Doc Ellis story is in the Snapple fact version.

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<v Speaker 5>Doc Alice pitched a no hitter, well tripping on acid.

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<v Speaker 5>That's awesome, but I need to know more. I need

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<v Speaker 5>to know how this happened, how this came about, what

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<v Speaker 5>happened to Doc Ellis after and Zaren, you do an

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<v Speaker 5>incredible job really unpacking that. And uh, I don't think

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<v Speaker 5>Snap will ever actually used that as a fact. That

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<v Speaker 5>might have been too edgy for the Snapple corporation. But

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<v Speaker 5>this passes the test. I love the snaffle test. By

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<v Speaker 5>the way, I'm gonna have to start using that. This

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<v Speaker 5>episode was so much fun to research. It talked with

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<v Speaker 5>a bunch of people for the interviews, and it was

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<v Speaker 5>just like finding a portrait of Doc Ellis that it

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<v Speaker 5>totally exceeded the frame.

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<v Speaker 1>Was a lot of fun.

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<v Speaker 6>I was fascinated as someone who really does not know

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<v Speaker 6>anything about sports, or to be honest, really care about sports.

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<v Speaker 6>I love a thing that does make me care about sports.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm like, oh, this is interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>Nice way on.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't see the hitters. All I could tell was

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<v Speaker 2>if there was over the right side or the left side.

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<v Speaker 2>The catcher put tape on his fingers so I could

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<v Speaker 2>see the signals.

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<v Speaker 1>It is retelling of that fateful game. Doc also recalls

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<v Speaker 1>how at other times it seems like all he can

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<v Speaker 1>see is the umpire behind the plate. Later on in

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<v Speaker 1>the game, Doc could swear President Richard Nixon is behind

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<v Speaker 1>the plate. That's who's calling the balls and strikes. Also,

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<v Speaker 1>at one point he believes the guitarist Jimmy Hendrix is

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<v Speaker 1>at bat, only instead of a bat, Jimmy Hendrix is

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<v Speaker 1>swinging his guitar. But wait, it gets even weirder than that.

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<v Speaker 1>A Despite those ballplayers who were often just a miasma

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<v Speaker 1>of color and action, and despite his wild eyed hallucinations,

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<v Speaker 1>somehow Doc Elis stays in control of the ballgame.

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<v Speaker 2>We had a rookie on the team at that particular

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<v Speaker 2>time named Dave Cash, and he kept saying.

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<v Speaker 1>After the first.

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<v Speaker 2>Inning, he said, you got a no no going, no

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<v Speaker 2>hit it?

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<v Speaker 1>I said, yeah, all right, regardless if it's Nixon as

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<v Speaker 1>the umpire or Jimmy Hendrix swinging his guitar. Doc Ellis

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<v Speaker 1>holds on.

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<v Speaker 3>Get around the fourth. Then he had said, again, got

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<v Speaker 3>a no note going.

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<v Speaker 2>Look yep, but I could also feel the pressure from

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<v Speaker 2>other player wanting to tell him to shut up. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a superstition thing where you're not supposed to say nothing

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<v Speaker 2>if somebody's throwing a no hitter.

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<v Speaker 1>In a sport that's had its fair share of bigger

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<v Speaker 1>than life characters, doc ellis Is was and remains one

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<v Speaker 1>of baseball's most mercurial and enigmatic figures. He had undeniable

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<v Speaker 1>talent as a pitcher. He had irresistible charisma as a teammate. However,

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<v Speaker 1>it was away from the game that he had his

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<v Speaker 1>most profound impact. His legendary career lasted twelve years. All

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<v Speaker 1>Throughout that span of time, he won games, He won hearts,

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<v Speaker 1>he won publicity for himself, his team, and for his people.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a true rare.

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<v Speaker 3>One, so he was fun to watch. He was young.

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<v Speaker 7>He challenged the authorities at a time when we were

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<v Speaker 7>challenging authority.

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<v Speaker 1>That's my pops. Zarreon Burnett Junior was a young man

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<v Speaker 1>just starting out in life when doc Ellis was pitching.

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<v Speaker 1>He watched many of his games, and he was a

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<v Speaker 1>fan of his whole vibe and energy. That's why I

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<v Speaker 1>asked him what doc Ellis was like back when he

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<v Speaker 1>was playing in the majors.

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<v Speaker 3>He was a fun guy because he was young and

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<v Speaker 3>he was current.

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<v Speaker 7>He was unrespectful of tradition because tradition is what kept

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<v Speaker 7>black people out thinking, So tradition was never a reason

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<v Speaker 7>in his eyes to do something.

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<v Speaker 1>For instance, one of the most iconic and celebrated images

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<v Speaker 1>of Doc Ellis features him on the mound pitching glove

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<v Speaker 1>in hand, but instead of his ball cap, he has

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<v Speaker 1>a head decorated in pink hair curlers. His head looks

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<v Speaker 1>like some satellite from the early days of the space race.

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<v Speaker 1>His otherworldly appearance was a major cause for concern when

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<v Speaker 1>he wore the pink curlers onto the field for pregame

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<v Speaker 1>practice at the hallowed grounds of Wrigley Field. The year

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<v Speaker 1>was nineteen seventy three. When I asked him, my pops

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<v Speaker 1>certainly remembered those pink hair curlers.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 7>First time I saw him, he was sitting in the

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<v Speaker 7>bullpen before the game. My dad said, he said, I'm

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<v Speaker 7>gonna make a picture of curls in here. I said, well,

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<v Speaker 7>we're getting ready to see because the game is about

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<v Speaker 7>to start. He walked out there with the curls and

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<v Speaker 7>started attentioning the manager told him he didn't want them

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<v Speaker 7>to do it anymore. Yeah, I don't care which he wants, said,

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<v Speaker 7>I means the same thing, I don't.

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<v Speaker 3>Care what you want.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a picture perfect moment from Doc's career in Major

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<v Speaker 1>League baseball. It was a picture that said far more

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<v Speaker 1>than a thousand words. It was more like ten thousand words.

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<v Speaker 1>It was plain and simple, open defiance of league traditions

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<v Speaker 1>and standards. It was also a revolutionary's manifesto of self determination.

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<v Speaker 1>That one image became a shorthand to understand Doc's whole

0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.839
<v Speaker 1>attitude in life. To get a better and a deeper

0:12:59.880 --> 0:13:02.559
<v Speaker 1>sense of the man, we spoke with his wife, his

0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Georgis Ellis, and she was quick to agree that the

0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:08.400
<v Speaker 1>pink hair curlers was certifiable.

0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:12.040
<v Speaker 8>Doc, I have the picture of the pink curlers in

0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:13.240
<v Speaker 8>a frame in my house.

0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.120
<v Speaker 4>Now. That is the one part of his baseball life.

0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:20.480
<v Speaker 8>He loved to talk about, Okay, those pink curlers because

0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:24.240
<v Speaker 8>he said nobody believed he was gonna do it. And

0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.760
<v Speaker 8>I looked at him and I was like, they must

0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.040
<v Speaker 8>not know you like I known you, Because if you

0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.240
<v Speaker 8>have told me that one time, I would have been

0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:32.520
<v Speaker 8>like buck don't do it.

0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.880
<v Speaker 1>But as anyone who personally knew him would attest, that

0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.640
<v Speaker 1>was Doc. He was gonna do whatever he felt was

0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:44.240
<v Speaker 1>right and good to do, even if that meant wearing

0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:47.520
<v Speaker 1>pink curlers that made the Commissioner of baseball lose his

0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:48.880
<v Speaker 1>ever loving mind.

0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.120
<v Speaker 8>But please believe me, I have plenty pictures of him,

0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:53.680
<v Speaker 8>and I laugh at all of them.

0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:55.560
<v Speaker 4>Who did he really think he was?

0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:59.839
<v Speaker 1>And that's the question we aim to answer, Who did

0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:07.840
<v Speaker 1>Doc Ellis think he was? Years after he first wore

0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.800
<v Speaker 1>those pink curlers in his hair, Doc spoke with the

0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.679
<v Speaker 1>poet Donald Hall, and he gave a hint to his

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:17.040
<v Speaker 1>thinking at the time. The pink curlers gave him a

0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.920
<v Speaker 1>sly advantage in the fall of seventy two. In the

0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:23.920
<v Speaker 1>summer of seventy three, Doc said, quote, that's when I

0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.960
<v Speaker 1>was throwing spitballs. When I had the curlers my hair,

0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:30.440
<v Speaker 1>the end would be nothing but balls of sweat. And

0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:35.000
<v Speaker 1>thus Doc could slyly add some natural lubricant to his spitball,

0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.920
<v Speaker 1>making it more like a sweatball. As Doc further explained

0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:43.680
<v Speaker 1>to the poet Donald Hall, spitballs were quote something I

0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.920
<v Speaker 1>experimented with because above it all, doc Ellis wasn't just

0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:52.200
<v Speaker 1>an experimenter. He was a competitor, a man who came

0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.840
<v Speaker 1>to win. Although these days he's mostly known for something

0:14:55.880 --> 0:15:00.560
<v Speaker 1>else he experimented with that's right, LSD, and that no

0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:04.280
<v Speaker 1>hitter he pitched on acid, which is a shame because

0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.760
<v Speaker 1>Doc Ellis was so much more than that. Of course,

0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:11.000
<v Speaker 1>if you're known for such a ludicrous achievement as throwing

0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.280
<v Speaker 1>a no hitter on acid, there will be some folks

0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.680
<v Speaker 1>who doubt you, and specifically doubt that it even ever happened.

0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.840
<v Speaker 1>But according to his wife, Hadjeordis.

0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:22.360
<v Speaker 8>He told the truth about that night. A lot of

0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:24.800
<v Speaker 8>people still questioned that all these years later.

0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:28.280
<v Speaker 1>You heard her, She insists, the legend in this case

0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:28.960
<v Speaker 1>is real.

0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.160
<v Speaker 8>He was really telling the truth. Doc was telling the

0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.560
<v Speaker 8>truth about that night. He definitely wasn't hiding from it.

0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:40.200
<v Speaker 1>That's because as mysterious and enigmatic as he was to

0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.840
<v Speaker 1>the world, doc Ellis knew himself.

0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.600
<v Speaker 8>He was a teller of truths without any questions asked.

0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.600
<v Speaker 8>I'm a little biased because he was my husband, but

0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.560
<v Speaker 8>I thought Doc was a very brilliant and talented man.

0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:57.080
<v Speaker 8>He believed and was a fighter for dignity.

0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:06.240
<v Speaker 1>Doc Ellis was born on March eleventh, nineteen forty five,

0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.640
<v Speaker 1>in Los Angeles, California. He was raised in a middle

0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:13.480
<v Speaker 1>class black neighborhood located between Long Beach, Guardina, and Watts

0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:18.800
<v Speaker 1>in south central LA. His early years were remarkably normal, uneventful,

0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.360
<v Speaker 1>and animated by the love of his parents. He was

0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:25.760
<v Speaker 1>known as a fun loving kid, a bit of a prankster,

0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:30.120
<v Speaker 1>and he was an exceptional athlete. By the time he

0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:34.000
<v Speaker 1>reached high school, he was a six foot three multi

0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:38.920
<v Speaker 1>sports star. He excelled at basketball. He was equally good,

0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.800
<v Speaker 1>if not better, at baseball, but he refused to play

0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.640
<v Speaker 1>for the high school baseball team after a teammate called

0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:49.960
<v Speaker 1>him quote a spear chucker. He flat out refused to

0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.000
<v Speaker 1>be on a team with that guy. However, then he

0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:57.080
<v Speaker 1>got in trouble. The story goes, Doc got caught drinking

0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.320
<v Speaker 1>wine and getting high in the boys' bathroom at school.

0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.040
<v Speaker 1>To get out of that trouble, a deal was struck.

0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Doc was told quote, play baseball or will suspend you.

0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:11.000
<v Speaker 1>So Doc rejoined the high school team. He played in

0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.840
<v Speaker 1>a handful of games to finish out the season, and

0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:17.000
<v Speaker 1>as a result, he was named an All League player.

0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:22.119
<v Speaker 8>Doc was a man who was able to camouflage his

0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:24.440
<v Speaker 8>pain in other ways.

0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:29.080
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes Doc had to mask his pain behind his excellence

0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:33.560
<v Speaker 1>on the field or the diamond. Luckily, around that same time,

0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:36.159
<v Speaker 1>he met a man who would change the course of

0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:41.520
<v Speaker 1>his life, a former ballplayer turned scout named Chet Brewer.

0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:45.160
<v Speaker 1>He'd played in the Negro Leagues, back before Major League

0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:49.719
<v Speaker 1>Baseball allowed black players into the majors. Brewer played with

0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.960
<v Speaker 1>the legendary Negro League's pitcher Satchel Page, and so when

0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:58.480
<v Speaker 1>he saw the young Doc Ellis pitch, Brewer immediately knew

0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:02.359
<v Speaker 1>his talent was the real deal. As a scout for

0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.679
<v Speaker 1>the Pittsburgh Pirates, he recommended the ball club take a

0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:09.760
<v Speaker 1>look at this lanky, young black kid with a wicket arm.

0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.280
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen sixty four, Doc Ellis signed a minor league

0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:17.200
<v Speaker 1>contract with the Pirates. He stayed in their farm club

0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.880
<v Speaker 1>system until nineteen sixty eight, when he was finally brought

0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:24.080
<v Speaker 1>up to the big leagues. That was also the same

0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:28.240
<v Speaker 1>year Doc discovered the drugs that Major League ballplayers took

0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:32.439
<v Speaker 1>before games. As Doc Ellis recalled it, quote, by nineteen

0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:35.160
<v Speaker 1>sixty eight, I was gone. I got involved with drugs

0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:37.639
<v Speaker 1>real heavy when I got to the major leagues, because

0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:40.160
<v Speaker 1>when you get to the big leagues, he started getting

0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:43.480
<v Speaker 1>big league dope. And for the next twelve years of

0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:47.080
<v Speaker 1>his major league career, Doc never pitched a game without

0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:50.320
<v Speaker 1>the aid of amphetamines, or as they called it on

0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:54.680
<v Speaker 1>the street speed. As Doc told the filmmaker Kevin mccalis

0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:57.840
<v Speaker 1>to quote, doctors aren't going to come out and say it,

0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.680
<v Speaker 1>but it enhances your game. The thing is, you get

0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:04.600
<v Speaker 1>addicted to it. You take half a pill and do great,

0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:07.600
<v Speaker 1>Then you take half three weeks later and don't do

0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.359
<v Speaker 1>so good, so you take the other half. It got

0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:13.320
<v Speaker 1>to the point where I had to take it just

0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:16.920
<v Speaker 1>to be on the bench when I'm not pitching. When

0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:20.160
<v Speaker 1>he was on the Pirates roster, Doc Ellis was popping

0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:25.560
<v Speaker 1>between five and twelve Dexamal pills before any game he pitched.

0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:30.080
<v Speaker 1>The so called greenies kept him sharp and focused over

0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:34.919
<v Speaker 1>the long baseball season, which, as he pointed out, was

0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:40.320
<v Speaker 1>common for all major leaguers. It was a well kept secret. Frankly,

0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:44.000
<v Speaker 1>this should be no surprise, since performance enhancing drugs were

0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:48.359
<v Speaker 1>rather common in twentieth century America, even for non athletes.

0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:52.320
<v Speaker 1>Think of coffee, in the workplace, or the early sodas

0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:54.960
<v Speaker 1>like Coca Cola and its use of the plant behind

0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:57.720
<v Speaker 1>cocaine as a pick me up, and this was true

0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:00.640
<v Speaker 1>for mini sodas, as my pops explained to me.

0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.760
<v Speaker 7>That's what all those colors werefore. You know, doctor Pepper

0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:06.239
<v Speaker 7>is the Philly of pepper upper. They'll never ever let

0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.440
<v Speaker 7>you down. That was the appetiting slogan.

0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.080
<v Speaker 1>You have to keep in mind that in twentieth century

0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:17.760
<v Speaker 1>America things were often similar to now yet very different,

0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:21.679
<v Speaker 1>and daily drug use wasn't seen the same as long

0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:25.440
<v Speaker 1>as it was something acceptable like coffee or a mid

0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:29.200
<v Speaker 1>day martini, or if you were a ballplayer, a handful

0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:32.119
<v Speaker 1>of speed pills. Of course, the same could not be

0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:37.080
<v Speaker 1>said about taking LSD. That was a whole other ballgame.

0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:40.800
<v Speaker 1>After these messages, we will be back to relive the

0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:53.240
<v Speaker 1>no hitter doc Ellis threw on acid. When you discussed

0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.080
<v Speaker 1>doc Ellis, there's always a question of how great of

0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.280
<v Speaker 1>a picture he would have been if he never got

0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:01.880
<v Speaker 1>mixed up with speed pills and hard party in. He

0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.840
<v Speaker 1>was a big man, a powerful hard throw in pitcher

0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:09.640
<v Speaker 1>who intimidated all of the batters he faced. He could

0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.720
<v Speaker 1>have easily been a Hall of Famer if it weren't

0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:16.159
<v Speaker 1>for the drugs, and specifically the infamy of his no

0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:20.480
<v Speaker 1>hitter on acid that embarrassed Major League Baseball, and some

0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:23.960
<v Speaker 1>say the league never forgave him. The no hitter game

0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:27.840
<v Speaker 1>took place on June twelfth, nineteen seventy. It was his

0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:31.240
<v Speaker 1>third season in the league, and by then Doc thought

0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.680
<v Speaker 1>he had a pretty good handle on what life was

0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:36.960
<v Speaker 1>like in the big leagues. That may be why he

0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:40.439
<v Speaker 1>felt he could pitch a game on LSD, but that

0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:44.200
<v Speaker 1>was never his plan. As we've already covered, Doc didn't

0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:46.840
<v Speaker 1>think he was pitching that day. He'd overlooked that it

0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:50.080
<v Speaker 1>was a doubleheader. He was slated to pitch the first game.

0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.240
<v Speaker 1>So Doc rushed out, caught a flight from La to

0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.440
<v Speaker 1>San Diego, and he arrived in time at the ballpark.

0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:01.439
<v Speaker 1>Only he was still fully hallucinating. That would be a

0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:04.480
<v Speaker 1>challenge to get ready for the game. Doc did what

0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:07.680
<v Speaker 1>he did on any other day. He pitched, He gobbled

0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.120
<v Speaker 1>up some speed pills, and he waited to take the mount.

0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:14.160
<v Speaker 2>So by the time that he hit the bullpens, half

0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:15.600
<v Speaker 2>the world has melted.

0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:19.160
<v Speaker 4>We that's about the time coach.

0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:22.000
<v Speaker 9>Mor talk came and said, Doc Joe pitching today.

0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:27.000
<v Speaker 1>That's the folk singer Todd Snyder he wrote a song

0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:31.199
<v Speaker 1>called America's Favorite Pastime all about Doc Ellis and his

0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:35.520
<v Speaker 1>no Hitter on acid. As a fellow psychonot known to

0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:39.600
<v Speaker 1>enjoy the pleasures of LSD both on and off the stage,

0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:43.840
<v Speaker 1>he considers Doc Ellis a fellow traveler. When I asked

0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:46.120
<v Speaker 1>him if he thinks of Doc as a hero of his,

0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.120
<v Speaker 1>todd Snyder said, yeah, for.

0:22:49.160 --> 0:22:52.480
<v Speaker 9>Sure, and then all a lot of sports people like

0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:56.480
<v Speaker 9>that for me, but he's long for sure. It's because

0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:58.320
<v Speaker 9>he pitched an a hitter on LSD.

0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:02.359
<v Speaker 1>Todd Snyder's still remembers well the first time he heard

0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:06.160
<v Speaker 1>the story of Doc Ellis and his spectacular LSD tinged

0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:06.800
<v Speaker 1>No Hitter.

0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:10.639
<v Speaker 9>I was in Oregon with my friend the Late and

0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:14.600
<v Speaker 9>Jeff Austin and his band, the Hundred Mountain String Band

0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:19.119
<v Speaker 9>were headlined in this show, and about an hour before

0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:23.760
<v Speaker 9>they went on, they all took LSD and I thought, huh,

0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:28.440
<v Speaker 9>I've done a lot of things I hadn't formed on LSD.

0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:32.800
<v Speaker 1>Obviously, playing a show is far different than pitching in

0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:37.000
<v Speaker 1>the major leagues. However, there were similarities that Todd experienced

0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:39.840
<v Speaker 1>when he also tried to perform with a head full

0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:40.359
<v Speaker 1>of acid.

0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:42.919
<v Speaker 9>I said, this is the only job on the earth

0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:45.400
<v Speaker 9>where no one's gonna pas nigh.

0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:48.480
<v Speaker 10>You might even do better, you know, And then he

0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:49.680
<v Speaker 10>was like, well, not true.

0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:53.040
<v Speaker 9>There was a guy a picture doc Ellis, who took

0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:56.800
<v Speaker 9>LSD and threw a perfect game or no hitter in

0:23:56.800 --> 0:24:00.040
<v Speaker 9>the second he said that to me, I knew. I

0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:02.440
<v Speaker 9>remember just thinking, well, I'm gonna do a something. There's

0:24:02.440 --> 0:24:05.399
<v Speaker 9>a baseball player to it, no hit her on LSD,

0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:07.880
<v Speaker 9>and then went and read all about it.

0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:11.080
<v Speaker 1>That's how he was first inspired to write his song

0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:14.639
<v Speaker 1>celebrating the rare genius of doc Ellis. And that was

0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:18.480
<v Speaker 1>also not the only time Todd Snyder took acid before

0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:19.440
<v Speaker 1>he took the stage.

0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:22.760
<v Speaker 9>I was in my hotel and I took it and

0:24:22.840 --> 0:24:26.040
<v Speaker 9>it hit before I got out of the hotel. Then

0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:28.919
<v Speaker 9>he was across the street. I don't know how I

0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:32.520
<v Speaker 9>missed it, but I ended up lost sort of on

0:24:32.560 --> 0:24:36.560
<v Speaker 9>the Sunset Strip area. I just lost track of what

0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:40.120
<v Speaker 9>I was doing in La And then I sat down

0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:42.840
<v Speaker 9>in front of this slicker store and some kids said

0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:45.840
<v Speaker 9>we're going to the show walk by, and this girl said,

0:24:46.080 --> 0:24:50.920
<v Speaker 9>are you Todd Snyder? Like, yeah, I am. She said,

0:24:50.920 --> 0:24:54.399
<v Speaker 9>we're going to see your show. I was like, you

0:24:54.440 --> 0:24:55.840
<v Speaker 9>gotta take me with you to that.

0:24:56.080 --> 0:24:56.359
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:24:58.560 --> 0:25:01.199
<v Speaker 1>That is a picture perfect example of the sort of

0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:04.359
<v Speaker 1>challenges one can run into when attempting to perform with

0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:07.120
<v Speaker 1>a head full of acid. It's also a good example

0:25:07.160 --> 0:25:09.360
<v Speaker 1>of what Doc Ellis was up against when he took

0:25:09.400 --> 0:25:13.879
<v Speaker 1>the field that fadeful night in San Diego. He was

0:25:13.920 --> 0:25:16.920
<v Speaker 1>twenty five years old and the whole world was going

0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:20.679
<v Speaker 1>through a cultural revolution, but not everyone had to brave

0:25:20.880 --> 0:25:24.600
<v Speaker 1>their acid hallucinations in front of a rowdy crowd plus

0:25:24.760 --> 0:25:28.640
<v Speaker 1>the audience watching at home. That's exactly what Doc did

0:25:28.720 --> 0:25:32.600
<v Speaker 1>as he battled against the mayhem of that purple haze acid.

0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:37.760
<v Speaker 1>The game started out going well for Doc, even if

0:25:37.760 --> 0:25:41.720
<v Speaker 1>he was imagining all kinds of stuff that wasn't there now.

0:25:41.920 --> 0:25:45.280
<v Speaker 1>Even in a no hitter, some batters will make contact

0:25:45.320 --> 0:25:48.280
<v Speaker 1>with the ball. There were times when the ball was

0:25:48.359 --> 0:25:49.119
<v Speaker 1>hit back at me.

0:25:49.840 --> 0:25:52.719
<v Speaker 2>I jumped because I thought he was coming fast, but

0:25:52.760 --> 0:25:54.800
<v Speaker 2>the ball was coming slow. Third base would come by

0:25:54.840 --> 0:25:56.400
<v Speaker 2>and grab the ball and threw somebody out.

0:25:56.880 --> 0:25:59.600
<v Speaker 1>Other times, when a batter made contact, Doc had to

0:25:59.680 --> 0:26:02.600
<v Speaker 1>spring into action and make a defensive play. As he

0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:03.400
<v Speaker 1>tells it.

0:26:03.600 --> 0:26:06.359
<v Speaker 2>One time I covered first base and I cacked the

0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:08.920
<v Speaker 2>ball and I tagged the bas all in one most

0:26:08.960 --> 0:26:10.679
<v Speaker 2>and I said, oh, I just made a touchdown it.

0:26:11.400 --> 0:26:14.680
<v Speaker 1>There was the less dramatic challenge of fielding the ball

0:26:14.720 --> 0:26:17.200
<v Speaker 1>when the catcher threw it back to him after a pitch.

0:26:17.600 --> 0:26:20.919
<v Speaker 1>As Doc recalls, that was a whole other debacle to

0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:21.400
<v Speaker 1>get through.

0:26:22.000 --> 0:26:23.679
<v Speaker 2>I never caught a ball from to catch it with

0:26:23.720 --> 0:26:26.920
<v Speaker 2>two hands because I thought that was a big old ball,

0:26:28.000 --> 0:26:29.639
<v Speaker 2>and then sometimes it looks small.

0:26:30.160 --> 0:26:33.439
<v Speaker 1>The way my pops remembers Doc's performance that day was

0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:37.440
<v Speaker 1>how his pitches were sometimes heaters that twisted up batters

0:26:37.480 --> 0:26:41.080
<v Speaker 1>like a pretzel. However, other times his control was not

0:26:41.280 --> 0:26:42.240
<v Speaker 1>so pinpoint.

0:26:42.760 --> 0:26:46.280
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I remember the no hitter because he was wild.

0:26:47.760 --> 0:26:50.680
<v Speaker 7>He walked like seven or eight people, and I think

0:26:50.680 --> 0:26:54.040
<v Speaker 7>he hit a couple, but nobody got a hit.

0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:59.280
<v Speaker 1>The way Doc tells it confirms what my pops remembers.

0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:02.480
<v Speaker 2>In a crazy game, I'm hitting people, walk on people,

0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:06.199
<v Speaker 2>throwing balls in the dirt. They're going everywhere.

0:27:06.600 --> 0:27:10.800
<v Speaker 1>It was a struggle, no doubt, and yet somehow Doc

0:27:11.000 --> 0:27:11.439
<v Speaker 1>held on.

0:27:11.880 --> 0:27:13.840
<v Speaker 2>I didn't pay no attention to the score. You know,

0:27:14.040 --> 0:27:15.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to get the batters out.

0:27:16.280 --> 0:27:19.119
<v Speaker 1>In the eighth inning, Doc served up an errant pitch,

0:27:19.520 --> 0:27:21.280
<v Speaker 1>but it was the kind that a hitter could get

0:27:21.320 --> 0:27:25.160
<v Speaker 1>their bat on and make contact, which is exactly what happened.

0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:31.760
<v Speaker 1>The ball sailed deep. Everyone in the ballpark watched its

0:27:31.800 --> 0:27:36.800
<v Speaker 1>flight through that misty night air, and then somehow, some way,

0:27:37.200 --> 0:27:41.200
<v Speaker 1>Pirates outfielder Mattie Alou ran under the ball and made

0:27:41.320 --> 0:27:45.280
<v Speaker 1>a tremendous catch, just in time to save the no hitter.

0:27:45.920 --> 0:27:48.360
<v Speaker 1>Now all Doc needed to do was to get through

0:27:48.400 --> 0:27:52.879
<v Speaker 1>the ninth inning just three outs, an history would be made.

0:27:53.040 --> 0:27:56.520
<v Speaker 1>After the Pirates batted, the score was still to zero.

0:27:56.680 --> 0:28:00.560
<v Speaker 1>Now it was the Padres turn at bat, their last chance,

0:28:00.920 --> 0:28:03.320
<v Speaker 1>that is, if they could dramatically win the game. In

0:28:03.400 --> 0:28:06.879
<v Speaker 1>the bottom of the ninth, Doc Ellis retook the mound

0:28:07.280 --> 0:28:10.639
<v Speaker 1>ready to face down the batters, who he could barely see.

0:28:11.440 --> 0:28:14.320
<v Speaker 11>Everybody in our ball finish stand and they're walking around nervously.

0:28:15.119 --> 0:28:18.840
<v Speaker 11>They want to run and grab Doc. Now, two balls,

0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:24.560
<v Speaker 11>two strikes, and here's the pitch fight. Three they got

0:28:24.640 --> 0:28:25.120
<v Speaker 11>after him.

0:28:25.160 --> 0:28:25.720
<v Speaker 3>He got it.

0:28:29.880 --> 0:28:30.560
<v Speaker 11>They're moving.

0:28:30.680 --> 0:28:32.760
<v Speaker 3>Doc Emment got a no hitters.

0:28:35.040 --> 0:28:38.920
<v Speaker 1>Against all odds he'd done it. Doc Ellis had pitched

0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:43.320
<v Speaker 1>one of the wildest no hitters in the history of baseball, literally,

0:28:43.640 --> 0:28:46.680
<v Speaker 1>and he'd done it with his head fully dancing with LSD.

0:28:47.120 --> 0:28:50.480
<v Speaker 7>Doc Ellis was going drugs and he was talking shit

0:28:50.600 --> 0:28:53.280
<v Speaker 7>all the time and winning. So then when he pitched

0:28:53.280 --> 0:28:55.360
<v Speaker 7>a no hitter, was like, of course, of course they did.

0:28:56.280 --> 0:28:59.080
<v Speaker 7>And it wasn't pretty, it wasn't neat, but it was

0:28:59.080 --> 0:28:59.720
<v Speaker 7>a no hitter.

0:29:01.120 --> 0:29:03.920
<v Speaker 2>It was easier to pitch with the LSD because I

0:29:03.960 --> 0:29:07.120
<v Speaker 2>was so used to medicating myself. That's the way I

0:29:07.200 --> 0:29:09.520
<v Speaker 2>was dealing with the fear of failure. It's the fear

0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:12.680
<v Speaker 2>of losing, the fear of winning. It's just that it

0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:14.680
<v Speaker 2>was part of the game. You know, you get to

0:29:14.680 --> 0:29:17.160
<v Speaker 2>the major leagues and you say, I got to stay here.

0:29:17.200 --> 0:29:22.240
<v Speaker 1>What do I need. The wildest part of his no

0:29:22.360 --> 0:29:25.520
<v Speaker 1>hitter on acid is how once he'd pulled off the

0:29:25.680 --> 0:29:30.120
<v Speaker 1>near impossible, doc Ellis didn't want to talk about it.

0:29:30.360 --> 0:29:33.120
<v Speaker 1>As loud and as proud as he was, as much

0:29:33.120 --> 0:29:36.800
<v Speaker 1>of a competitor as he was, it wasn't something he

0:29:36.880 --> 0:29:40.360
<v Speaker 1>talked to the press about. Not for a few years

0:29:40.400 --> 0:29:42.920
<v Speaker 1>did anyone know what he'd done. And even then When

0:29:42.960 --> 0:29:46.520
<v Speaker 1>folks did finally learn about the minor miracle he'd managed

0:29:46.560 --> 0:29:49.920
<v Speaker 1>to pull off, Doc wanted to talk about it, even

0:29:50.040 --> 0:29:51.320
<v Speaker 1>less it.

0:29:51.200 --> 0:29:55.560
<v Speaker 8>Was something he never ever celebrated at all. He honestly

0:29:55.600 --> 0:29:59.160
<v Speaker 8>didn't even remember pitching that game. That's how much of

0:29:59.200 --> 0:30:01.200
<v Speaker 8>a fall it was for him.

0:30:01.360 --> 0:30:04.120
<v Speaker 1>Now, if you can believe it. That wasn't the only

0:30:04.200 --> 0:30:08.080
<v Speaker 1>game he pitched on acid. There was another famous outing

0:30:08.120 --> 0:30:11.200
<v Speaker 1>when he took to the mound flying high on LSD.

0:30:11.400 --> 0:30:15.000
<v Speaker 1>Only in that other game he had almost the exact

0:30:15.080 --> 0:30:17.959
<v Speaker 1>opposite experience. He didn't even make it out of the

0:30:18.000 --> 0:30:22.440
<v Speaker 1>first inning. Four years after the no hitter he pitched

0:30:22.440 --> 0:30:25.800
<v Speaker 1>on acid, doc Ellis was back on the mound, aided

0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:29.240
<v Speaker 1>by LSD. It was May Day, as in May one,

0:30:29.520 --> 0:30:33.600
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy four, the Pittsburgh Pirates were facing their rivals,

0:30:33.640 --> 0:30:38.280
<v Speaker 1>the Cincinnati Reds aka the Big Red Machine. Their lineup

0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:41.080
<v Speaker 1>was star studded with a bunch of future Hall of

0:30:41.120 --> 0:30:44.760
<v Speaker 1>Fame players, and, according to an interview Doc Ellis gave

0:30:44.840 --> 0:30:49.080
<v Speaker 1>to Jet Magazine in nineteen eighty four, his plan was

0:30:49.120 --> 0:30:52.000
<v Speaker 1>to knock them all down. He called it his May

0:30:52.080 --> 0:30:55.840
<v Speaker 1>Day experiment. Just before the game, doc Ellis told his

0:30:55.920 --> 0:30:59.720
<v Speaker 1>teammates quote, We're gonna get down, We're gonna do the

0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:04.240
<v Speaker 1>dou I'm gonna hit these. When he had a pregame

0:31:04.360 --> 0:31:08.000
<v Speaker 1>confact with his catcher, Manny Sanghian, he told his catcher

0:31:08.160 --> 0:31:10.600
<v Speaker 1>he didn't need to worry about him signaling the next

0:31:10.640 --> 0:31:13.400
<v Speaker 1>pitch he should throw, since he'd be throwing right at

0:31:13.440 --> 0:31:17.200
<v Speaker 1>them Cincinnati Reds. As doc told Manny, quote, I'm just

0:31:17.200 --> 0:31:19.400
<v Speaker 1>gonna mow the line up down. Don't even give me

0:31:19.440 --> 0:31:22.280
<v Speaker 1>no signals. If you can't catch it, forget it. Good

0:31:22.320 --> 0:31:25.440
<v Speaker 1>to his word, head filled with acid, doc Elis took

0:31:25.480 --> 0:31:29.080
<v Speaker 1>the mound, and indeed he threw hard at the first

0:31:29.120 --> 0:31:33.760
<v Speaker 1>five Reds players he faced. It was all fastballs. First

0:31:33.840 --> 0:31:36.800
<v Speaker 1>up was Pete Rose, and he hit Pete Rose right

0:31:36.840 --> 0:31:40.960
<v Speaker 1>in the ribs. Then came up to the plate future

0:31:40.960 --> 0:31:44.520
<v Speaker 1>Hall of Famer Joe Morgan, and again Doc Ellis wound

0:31:44.600 --> 0:31:49.640
<v Speaker 1>up and let his fastball go boom. Down went Joe Morgan.

0:31:50.080 --> 0:31:53.200
<v Speaker 1>Next up was Dan Dresen. He caught the same treatment.

0:31:54.720 --> 0:31:58.120
<v Speaker 1>Now the bases are loaded and up comes Tony Perez.

0:31:58.520 --> 0:32:02.080
<v Speaker 1>With Johnny Bench in the on deck circle. Doc Ellis

0:32:02.160 --> 0:32:04.880
<v Speaker 1>went into his wind up and he let his fastball

0:32:05.080 --> 0:32:10.280
<v Speaker 1>fly he missed Tony Perez, so he tried again, and again.

0:32:10.600 --> 0:32:13.240
<v Speaker 3>Tony Perez managed to dodge for him.

0:32:13.560 --> 0:32:17.600
<v Speaker 1>Well, he missed Tony Perez. That was enough wild pitches

0:32:17.640 --> 0:32:20.720
<v Speaker 1>to walk in, which brought Pete Rose home.

0:32:22.560 --> 0:32:25.600
<v Speaker 3>So he walked a run in. The next guy came up.

0:32:25.840 --> 0:32:29.240
<v Speaker 1>Remember that the next guy is another future Hall of Famer,

0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:33.560
<v Speaker 1>Johnny Bench. As Doc Ellis tells it, quote, I tried

0:32:33.600 --> 0:32:36.000
<v Speaker 1>to deck Bench twice. I threw at his jaw and

0:32:36.040 --> 0:32:37.640
<v Speaker 1>he moved. I threw it at the back of his

0:32:37.720 --> 0:32:38.960
<v Speaker 1>head and he moved.

0:32:39.080 --> 0:32:41.600
<v Speaker 7>He threw at his head twice. So then that's when

0:32:41.640 --> 0:32:43.640
<v Speaker 7>imager just took him out. So o hea, he gonna

0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:46.120
<v Speaker 7>get You're gonna start a riot.

0:32:46.160 --> 0:32:50.880
<v Speaker 1>That infamous second game Doc pitched on acid was equally memorable,

0:32:51.200 --> 0:32:54.520
<v Speaker 1>just for the exact opposite reason. He didn't get a

0:32:54.720 --> 0:32:59.040
<v Speaker 1>single out, but strangely, he did earn the respect of

0:32:59.080 --> 0:33:04.080
<v Speaker 1>his teammates, or at least one of them. Pittsburgh Pirates

0:33:04.160 --> 0:33:07.200
<v Speaker 1>great and future Hall of Famer Dave Parker recalled how

0:33:07.280 --> 0:33:09.480
<v Speaker 1>quote when he came up and said he was gonna

0:33:09.520 --> 0:33:12.080
<v Speaker 1>hit all those reds. I thought, you ain't gonna do nothing, man.

0:33:12.880 --> 0:33:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Then he did it. I'd gained a lot of respect

0:33:14.960 --> 0:33:18.600
<v Speaker 1>for him right there. Those two games capture well the

0:33:18.720 --> 0:33:22.400
<v Speaker 1>highs and the lows of the career of Doc Ellis.

0:33:22.720 --> 0:33:26.000
<v Speaker 1>Even when he was at his worst, his teammates still

0:33:26.080 --> 0:33:30.360
<v Speaker 1>loved and respected him. Yet it would be outside baseball

0:33:30.400 --> 0:33:34.120
<v Speaker 1>that Doc Elis had the most profound effect on others.

0:33:34.800 --> 0:33:37.719
<v Speaker 1>After this break, we'll dive deeper into the legend of

0:33:37.760 --> 0:33:48.080
<v Speaker 1>Doc Ellis to discover the man he truly was. When

0:33:48.080 --> 0:33:50.480
<v Speaker 1>he first heard the story of Doc Ellis and his

0:33:50.600 --> 0:33:54.240
<v Speaker 1>no hitter on Acid, the film producer David Permit knew

0:33:54.480 --> 0:33:57.720
<v Speaker 1>instantly that there was a movie there, and after doing

0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:01.000
<v Speaker 1>some research and learning about the fullness of the man's life,

0:34:01.080 --> 0:34:04.440
<v Speaker 1>he knew without a doubt there was an amazing film

0:34:04.520 --> 0:34:09.120
<v Speaker 1>waiting to be made. Now he's developing a biopic about

0:34:09.160 --> 0:34:11.680
<v Speaker 1>more than just the no hitter. His film will tell

0:34:11.719 --> 0:34:16.320
<v Speaker 1>the inimitable story of Doc's life. Often when biographers have

0:34:16.440 --> 0:34:19.680
<v Speaker 1>tried to sum up Doc Ellis and his life in baseball,

0:34:19.920 --> 0:34:23.720
<v Speaker 1>there's a common comparison that's made. Folks often called Doc

0:34:23.800 --> 0:34:27.600
<v Speaker 1>quote the Muhammad al Lee of baseball. On the surface,

0:34:27.880 --> 0:34:31.920
<v Speaker 1>it makes sense, both were proud black men, phenomenal athletes,

0:34:32.200 --> 0:34:36.719
<v Speaker 1>competitors who spoke their minds and challenged the traditions of

0:34:36.800 --> 0:34:39.960
<v Speaker 1>their time. But when I asked my pops if he

0:34:40.080 --> 0:34:43.360
<v Speaker 1>agreed with that comparison, he was quick to say.

0:34:43.760 --> 0:34:46.960
<v Speaker 7>I think it's marketing the cellar book. He wasn't Baseball's

0:34:46.960 --> 0:34:49.240
<v Speaker 7>behind a Lea. He was Baseball's Doc Ellis.

0:34:51.320 --> 0:34:54.640
<v Speaker 1>Some folks have also called Doc Ellis a militant, but

0:34:54.880 --> 0:34:57.239
<v Speaker 1>to those who saw him pitch and those who knew

0:34:57.280 --> 0:35:01.319
<v Speaker 1>him intimately, that word also doesn't quite fit the man

0:35:01.640 --> 0:35:02.160
<v Speaker 1>they knew.

0:35:03.960 --> 0:35:07.640
<v Speaker 7>I remember Docs. I won't say activism because he wasn't

0:35:07.640 --> 0:35:10.600
<v Speaker 7>an activist, but he was an agitator. He was an

0:35:10.600 --> 0:35:15.040
<v Speaker 7>activist within baseball, but he was always pointing out the inequity.

0:35:15.280 --> 0:35:17.120
<v Speaker 7>It wasn't like he had an idea that he wanted

0:35:17.160 --> 0:35:20.280
<v Speaker 7>them to do something. He wanted them to stop doing something.

0:35:20.480 --> 0:35:22.840
<v Speaker 7>He wanted them to stop all of the racist stuff,

0:35:22.880 --> 0:35:25.359
<v Speaker 7>you know, like counting the black guys on the team

0:35:25.520 --> 0:35:27.960
<v Speaker 7>and then making sure you don't have too many so

0:35:28.000 --> 0:35:31.080
<v Speaker 7>you don't offend the white fans. Even having that thought,

0:35:31.480 --> 0:35:34.680
<v Speaker 7>having that idea, he thought that was offensive. We were

0:35:34.680 --> 0:35:38.120
<v Speaker 7>well aware of his outspokenness on black things.

0:35:38.480 --> 0:35:42.280
<v Speaker 1>Doc's wife Hadjeordis very much agrees with my pop's assessment.

0:35:42.400 --> 0:35:44.080
<v Speaker 1>In fact, she goes further.

0:35:44.400 --> 0:35:47.200
<v Speaker 8>Doc definitely wasn't a militant, and I don't think that

0:35:47.400 --> 0:35:50.439
<v Speaker 8>was the name that he deserved, but he ran with

0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:53.279
<v Speaker 8>it because he always said, Jeordy, I'm gonna give the

0:35:53.320 --> 0:35:55.800
<v Speaker 8>people what the people want, and that's what they want.

0:35:56.239 --> 0:35:58.399
<v Speaker 8>They want to see a militant, and I'm gonna act

0:35:58.440 --> 0:36:01.760
<v Speaker 8>like a mility. Said, if they want to see a clown,

0:36:01.840 --> 0:36:03.960
<v Speaker 8>you give them a clown. And I just think that

0:36:04.040 --> 0:36:06.880
<v Speaker 8>a lot of things that Doc did he was feeding

0:36:07.040 --> 0:36:10.239
<v Speaker 8>in to what the people were really wanting to seek

0:36:10.280 --> 0:36:10.719
<v Speaker 8>from him.

0:36:11.320 --> 0:36:15.520
<v Speaker 1>That assessment feels far more fitting because Doc Ellis was

0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:19.799
<v Speaker 1>one of a kind. Any easy comparison or label such

0:36:19.800 --> 0:36:26.399
<v Speaker 1>as militant ultimately cheapens what made Doc so distinct more

0:36:26.440 --> 0:36:29.120
<v Speaker 1>than the no hitter on acid. It was a year later,

0:36:29.239 --> 0:36:32.000
<v Speaker 1>at the All Star Game in nineteen seventy one that

0:36:32.200 --> 0:36:36.440
<v Speaker 1>showed the world why Doc Ellis was so singular, But

0:36:36.560 --> 0:36:40.600
<v Speaker 1>also that game revealed how much love and respect Doc

0:36:40.680 --> 0:36:44.040
<v Speaker 1>had for his people, for black folks, and how he

0:36:44.120 --> 0:36:48.200
<v Speaker 1>was willing to stand on business demanding that baseball show

0:36:48.280 --> 0:36:52.600
<v Speaker 1>that same respect to black ball. Players. In nineteen seventy one,

0:36:53.000 --> 0:36:55.880
<v Speaker 1>the two best pitchers in baseball both happened to be

0:36:56.160 --> 0:36:59.240
<v Speaker 1>black men. In the American League, there was the Oakland

0:36:59.239 --> 0:37:03.319
<v Speaker 1>A's pitcher Blue, a man who threw so hard that,

0:37:03.400 --> 0:37:04.680
<v Speaker 1>as my pop said.

0:37:04.800 --> 0:37:06.799
<v Speaker 7>This is invited, Blue could throw a ball through a

0:37:06.840 --> 0:37:09.840
<v Speaker 7>car wash and it would not get wet the automatic

0:37:09.840 --> 0:37:12.560
<v Speaker 7>car wash you get, throw it from one or another and

0:37:12.640 --> 0:37:13.960
<v Speaker 7>come out dry.

0:37:14.000 --> 0:37:16.200
<v Speaker 1>To face him in the All Star Game for the

0:37:16.320 --> 0:37:20.759
<v Speaker 1>National League, there was Doc Ellis. Everyone knew they were

0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:23.640
<v Speaker 1>the two best pitchers and as such they should both

0:37:23.680 --> 0:37:27.880
<v Speaker 1>start at the All Star Game. However, there were those

0:37:27.920 --> 0:37:31.280
<v Speaker 1>who didn't want America's pastime to give such an honor

0:37:31.360 --> 0:37:37.080
<v Speaker 1>to two black ballplayers. That didn't sit right with Doc Ellis,

0:37:37.360 --> 0:37:40.960
<v Speaker 1>so he launched a campaign to demand that the National

0:37:41.000 --> 0:37:45.560
<v Speaker 1>League manager, Sparky Anderson, give him the start. The National

0:37:45.600 --> 0:37:49.280
<v Speaker 1>sports writers saw this as Doc making something about race

0:37:49.360 --> 0:37:52.759
<v Speaker 1>that wasn't about race. The ones who wrote about it

0:37:53.040 --> 0:37:58.759
<v Speaker 1>patronizingly insisted racism didn't exist in baseball, and if it did,

0:37:59.000 --> 0:38:04.319
<v Speaker 1>was solely due to Doc bringing it in to baseball. Meanwhile,

0:38:04.600 --> 0:38:06.440
<v Speaker 1>Doc stuck to his guns.

0:38:06.800 --> 0:38:08.880
<v Speaker 7>He said, I don't think the league is ever gonna

0:38:09.640 --> 0:38:12.399
<v Speaker 7>start two black guys in an All Star game. Yeah,

0:38:12.400 --> 0:38:15.359
<v Speaker 7>he said his stayouts and then Sparky Anderson started him

0:38:15.640 --> 0:38:19.320
<v Speaker 7>just to prove he wasn't a racist, I believe so

0:38:19.440 --> 0:38:21.400
<v Speaker 7>that thought to not be in the position of proving

0:38:21.520 --> 0:38:23.919
<v Speaker 7>him right, so he got to start the game, which

0:38:23.960 --> 0:38:25.720
<v Speaker 7>I think was his plan all the time.

0:38:27.320 --> 0:38:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Another result is that for a very large number of fans,

0:38:31.200 --> 0:38:34.960
<v Speaker 1>doc Ellis became one of the most unpopular players in

0:38:35.040 --> 0:38:38.560
<v Speaker 1>Major League Baseball. Yet, when he was asked about the

0:38:38.640 --> 0:38:41.759
<v Speaker 1>hate he was receiving for his stand, doc Ellis was

0:38:41.840 --> 0:38:44.759
<v Speaker 1>quick to say he didn't quote give a fuck what

0:38:44.880 --> 0:38:48.040
<v Speaker 1>anybody thought. One reason he was willing to take a

0:38:48.040 --> 0:38:51.320
<v Speaker 1>big hit of negative publicity and stand up and speak

0:38:51.360 --> 0:38:54.000
<v Speaker 1>his mind is that he did it not only for himself,

0:38:54.040 --> 0:38:57.640
<v Speaker 1>but also for his friend, the as pitcher Vita Blue.

0:38:58.400 --> 0:39:01.320
<v Speaker 4>Oh my god, him invited Blue or Thickest Thieves.

0:39:02.000 --> 0:39:04.160
<v Speaker 8>I had the opportunity to be around Bida quite a

0:39:04.160 --> 0:39:07.720
<v Speaker 8>bit after Doc and I married. Bida was like another

0:39:07.800 --> 0:39:11.040
<v Speaker 8>brother to him, and he spoke very highly of Da.

0:39:11.239 --> 0:39:13.760
<v Speaker 8>He had nothing but the utmost respect for Bida.

0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:16.960
<v Speaker 1>After that All Star game, there was one man who

0:39:17.000 --> 0:39:20.240
<v Speaker 1>watched the game saw the backlash from the sporting press,

0:39:20.520 --> 0:39:24.040
<v Speaker 1>and he was so moved by what Doc had bravely

0:39:24.200 --> 0:39:26.880
<v Speaker 1>done for black ball players in the league that he

0:39:27.000 --> 0:39:30.640
<v Speaker 1>sat down and wrote a heartfelt letter to Doc Ellis.

0:39:32.280 --> 0:39:34.440
<v Speaker 12>I read your comments and I paid with the last

0:39:34.440 --> 0:39:37.359
<v Speaker 12>few days, and I wanted you to know how much

0:39:37.400 --> 0:39:42.840
<v Speaker 12>I appreciate your courage and honesty. In my opinion, progress

0:39:42.880 --> 0:39:45.840
<v Speaker 12>for today's players will only come from this kind of dedication.

0:39:47.239 --> 0:39:52.000
<v Speaker 12>I am sure. Also you know some of the possible consequences.

0:39:52.600 --> 0:39:56.520
<v Speaker 12>The news media, while knowing full will you all right

0:39:56.640 --> 0:40:01.720
<v Speaker 12>and honest, will use every means to get you. Blacks

0:40:01.760 --> 0:40:05.600
<v Speaker 12>should not protest as you are, even though they know

0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:10.440
<v Speaker 12>you are right. Honors that should be yours will bypass you,

0:40:11.440 --> 0:40:15.600
<v Speaker 12>and the pressures will be great. There will be times

0:40:15.600 --> 0:40:19.319
<v Speaker 12>when you ask yourself if it's worth it all. I

0:40:19.360 --> 0:40:25.920
<v Speaker 12>can only say, Doc, it is. I again appreciate what

0:40:25.960 --> 0:40:32.640
<v Speaker 12>you are doing. Continued success, Sincerely, Jackie Robinson.

0:40:33.280 --> 0:40:36.760
<v Speaker 1>When he received that letter, to say that his reaction

0:40:36.960 --> 0:40:41.360
<v Speaker 1>was emotional is a powerful understatement. As his wife has

0:40:41.440 --> 0:40:42.960
<v Speaker 1>Jordis recalls.

0:40:43.080 --> 0:40:44.600
<v Speaker 4>Oh boy, here you go.

0:40:44.880 --> 0:40:49.000
<v Speaker 8>No, yes, he did. We read that letter all the

0:40:49.040 --> 0:40:53.239
<v Speaker 8>time in our home. That letter was something that was

0:40:54.680 --> 0:40:58.760
<v Speaker 8>to be honest with you, That was truly the first

0:40:58.800 --> 0:41:04.359
<v Speaker 8>time I ever witnessed Doc actually crying. And I'd seen

0:41:04.440 --> 0:41:08.160
<v Speaker 8>many moments in his life that most people would have

0:41:08.239 --> 0:41:12.040
<v Speaker 8>cried over, but that was the first time I had

0:41:12.080 --> 0:41:15.480
<v Speaker 8>ever seen him cry, and he was finally able to

0:41:15.560 --> 0:41:18.480
<v Speaker 8>break himself to read out loud.

0:41:18.880 --> 0:41:22.240
<v Speaker 1>Doc Ellis knew well what Jackie Robinson had gone through

0:41:22.520 --> 0:41:25.680
<v Speaker 1>as the first black ball player in modern baseball, the

0:41:25.800 --> 0:41:29.120
<v Speaker 1>man who broke the color line. To read the mutual

0:41:29.200 --> 0:41:32.120
<v Speaker 1>respect that Jackie had for him and for what he'd

0:41:32.160 --> 0:41:35.760
<v Speaker 1>done by standing up and speaking out. Receiving that letter

0:41:36.200 --> 0:41:38.799
<v Speaker 1>was one of the greatest moments in the life of

0:41:38.840 --> 0:41:42.800
<v Speaker 1>Doc Ellis when Jackie Robinson told him, as my Pops

0:41:42.840 --> 0:41:43.279
<v Speaker 1>puts it.

0:41:43.600 --> 0:41:45.279
<v Speaker 7>You're right, You're going to be right, but they're still

0:41:45.320 --> 0:41:48.600
<v Speaker 7>going to you. But this has to be done, and

0:41:48.680 --> 0:41:52.000
<v Speaker 7>what's right changes from moment to moment. So he liked

0:41:52.040 --> 0:41:57.800
<v Speaker 7>the fact that Doc was open about the mistreatment that

0:41:58.000 --> 0:42:01.920
<v Speaker 7>was still being visited at all on black people, because

0:42:01.960 --> 0:42:04.600
<v Speaker 7>that was consistent with what he believed to be happening,

0:42:05.080 --> 0:42:08.560
<v Speaker 7>and he was glad somebody else was talking about naturally.

0:42:08.680 --> 0:42:13.600
<v Speaker 1>The film producer David Permit also recognizes the cinematic value

0:42:13.719 --> 0:42:15.880
<v Speaker 1>of that moment and that letter.

0:42:16.680 --> 0:42:20.200
<v Speaker 10>Of course it's in our script. I mean Jackie Robinson.

0:42:20.280 --> 0:42:24.160
<v Speaker 10>We all know what he represents, and Doc Ellis revered

0:42:24.239 --> 0:42:26.920
<v Speaker 10>him as we all have looking back on history and

0:42:26.960 --> 0:42:29.160
<v Speaker 10>what he achieved. So that was one of the most

0:42:29.160 --> 0:42:32.080
<v Speaker 10>meaningful things that ever happened to Doc that letter. It

0:42:32.200 --> 0:42:34.160
<v Speaker 10>was an emotional high point in his life.

0:42:34.160 --> 0:42:36.120
<v Speaker 3>To receive that letter. You can only imagine.

0:42:36.680 --> 0:42:39.759
<v Speaker 1>There was another great black ball player who also meant

0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:44.000
<v Speaker 1>the world to Doc Ellis. His name was Roberto Clemente.

0:42:44.080 --> 0:42:47.320
<v Speaker 1>He was Doc's teammate on the Pittsburgh Pirates and together

0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:51.160
<v Speaker 1>they shared a remarkable bond. As well, they also shared

0:42:51.200 --> 0:42:55.440
<v Speaker 1>a remarkable moment in baseball history. On September one, nineteen

0:42:55.560 --> 0:42:58.880
<v Speaker 1>seventy one, months after the All Star Game, he'd started

0:42:59.160 --> 0:43:02.080
<v Speaker 1>the Pittsburgh which were the first team in Major League

0:43:02.080 --> 0:43:05.600
<v Speaker 1>Baseball to field an all black lineup, many of whom

0:43:05.640 --> 0:43:09.120
<v Speaker 1>were Afro Latino. Doc Ellis was on the mound and

0:43:09.239 --> 0:43:11.400
<v Speaker 1>Roberto Clemente was in the outfield.

0:43:11.960 --> 0:43:15.360
<v Speaker 7>Nobody talked about it in advance because it wasn't planned

0:43:15.400 --> 0:43:18.239
<v Speaker 7>as an action. Danny Mert talk I think was the

0:43:18.280 --> 0:43:20.480
<v Speaker 7>manager he should put the best guys on the field

0:43:20.520 --> 0:43:21.600
<v Speaker 7>and on that team, they.

0:43:21.480 --> 0:43:24.480
<v Speaker 3>All happened to be black. Somehow.

0:43:24.760 --> 0:43:28.240
<v Speaker 1>My pops caught that game on TV. Living in Pennsylvania

0:43:28.320 --> 0:43:32.000
<v Speaker 1>at the time, he got to witness that history being made.

0:43:32.880 --> 0:43:36.080
<v Speaker 3>All the neighborhood bars were full because we.

0:43:36.360 --> 0:43:38.839
<v Speaker 7>Wanted to We wanted to see this this negro league team,

0:43:41.360 --> 0:43:43.560
<v Speaker 7>that's what they had to call, a negro league team

0:43:43.640 --> 0:43:46.680
<v Speaker 7>into major and they were kidding everybody's ass.

0:43:46.920 --> 0:43:49.680
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, that was a lot of fun.

0:43:50.080 --> 0:43:53.439
<v Speaker 4>No, Doc was real proud part of that historic day.

0:43:54.160 --> 0:43:57.279
<v Speaker 8>Doc wasn't one to really talked about pride in a

0:43:57.360 --> 0:43:58.399
<v Speaker 8>loud kind of way.

0:43:59.040 --> 0:44:03.840
<v Speaker 1>However, that day was particularly moving for Doc, especially considering

0:44:03.880 --> 0:44:06.880
<v Speaker 1>what he'd gone through during the All Star Game earlier

0:44:06.960 --> 0:44:10.560
<v Speaker 1>that season and the whirlwind of controversy he'd created.

0:44:11.040 --> 0:44:14.880
<v Speaker 8>That moment was very meaningful to him. For him, it

0:44:14.960 --> 0:44:19.480
<v Speaker 8>was a sign of progress and a reflection of collective talent,

0:44:19.520 --> 0:44:22.239
<v Speaker 8>and he knew that it meant to stand at the

0:44:22.280 --> 0:44:27.560
<v Speaker 8>mound representing not just a team, but a community. So

0:44:27.680 --> 0:44:29.919
<v Speaker 8>it was a very proud moment for him.

0:44:30.280 --> 0:44:32.799
<v Speaker 1>And just like with the All Star Game, Doc got

0:44:32.800 --> 0:44:35.800
<v Speaker 1>to share that honor with a man he'd call a brother,

0:44:36.200 --> 0:44:39.799
<v Speaker 1>Roberto Clemente. That same year, their team would go on

0:44:39.920 --> 0:44:43.319
<v Speaker 1>to win the World Series. Nineteen seventy one was a

0:44:43.440 --> 0:44:48.240
<v Speaker 1>high point year in the life of Doc Ellis. Sadly though,

0:44:48.640 --> 0:44:52.080
<v Speaker 1>his time with Roberto Clemente was drawing to a close,

0:44:52.640 --> 0:44:55.720
<v Speaker 1>because the next year, after the baseball season, in December

0:44:55.760 --> 0:44:59.200
<v Speaker 1>of nineteen seventy two, Clemente was on a private plane

0:44:59.239 --> 0:45:03.040
<v Speaker 1>carrying a low of much needed relief supplies to an

0:45:03.040 --> 0:45:08.480
<v Speaker 1>earthquake ravage Nicaragua. Tragically, his plane went down near Puerto Rico.

0:45:08.960 --> 0:45:12.360
<v Speaker 1>Doc's wife, had Jordis, knows well how deeply that loss

0:45:12.400 --> 0:45:13.520
<v Speaker 1>affected her husband.

0:45:15.200 --> 0:45:19.560
<v Speaker 8>Roberto's deck hit Doc in a very undescribable way.

0:45:20.080 --> 0:45:23.960
<v Speaker 4>It was a wound that never healed, just truly didn't.

0:45:24.040 --> 0:45:24.680
<v Speaker 4>He spoke of.

0:45:24.760 --> 0:45:29.360
<v Speaker 8>Roberto with so much tenderness and respect, and he always

0:45:29.360 --> 0:45:35.600
<v Speaker 8>said that that friendship truly shaped how he thought about service.

0:45:36.120 --> 0:45:40.359
<v Speaker 1>Roberto Clemente's selflessness and his example of a meaningful life

0:45:40.480 --> 0:45:44.200
<v Speaker 1>outside of baseball would stay with Doc Ellis and would

0:45:44.239 --> 0:45:48.720
<v Speaker 1>shape the next chapter of his life Beyond the Diamond.

0:45:49.200 --> 0:45:53.080
<v Speaker 8>His relationship in friendship with Roberto is what I'm about

0:45:53.120 --> 0:45:57.680
<v Speaker 8>to cry, would truly shaped him into understanding the true

0:45:57.760 --> 0:46:01.080
<v Speaker 8>meaning and purpose bends the service and Scarfletts.

0:46:03.160 --> 0:46:06.120
<v Speaker 1>Towards the end of his career, Doc bounced around the league,

0:46:06.360 --> 0:46:09.160
<v Speaker 1>pitching for a variety of teams. But it was when

0:46:09.239 --> 0:46:13.080
<v Speaker 1>he left the Pirates that he took yet another emotional hit,

0:46:13.560 --> 0:46:17.239
<v Speaker 1>one that clarified for him how mercurial the folks who

0:46:17.239 --> 0:46:21.240
<v Speaker 1>were once his fans could be, and also how cruel.

0:46:24.440 --> 0:46:28.240
<v Speaker 1>Doc was known to drive a flashy red convertible Cadillac

0:46:28.320 --> 0:46:31.600
<v Speaker 1>to all the Pittsburgh Pirates home games. He'd bought the

0:46:31.640 --> 0:46:34.800
<v Speaker 1>car with his teammate, the future Hall of Famer Willie Stargel.

0:46:35.239 --> 0:46:38.120
<v Speaker 1>The two men were checking a car lot with Stargel

0:46:38.520 --> 0:46:42.160
<v Speaker 1>spied the red Caddy. He told Doc, man, this is

0:46:42.200 --> 0:46:42.720
<v Speaker 1>your car.

0:46:43.200 --> 0:46:46.160
<v Speaker 4>The only thing he ever said about that car. Will

0:46:46.200 --> 0:46:49.440
<v Speaker 4>He made me do it, and just.

0:46:49.480 --> 0:46:52.160
<v Speaker 1>Like that, Doc bought the Red Caddy and he dubbed

0:46:52.200 --> 0:46:55.880
<v Speaker 1>it the Doc Bobile. He outfitted that car with vanity

0:46:55.920 --> 0:46:57.840
<v Speaker 1>license plates that read Doc.

0:46:58.360 --> 0:47:02.680
<v Speaker 8>Was probably his most favorite car, not only because it

0:47:02.719 --> 0:47:05.480
<v Speaker 8>was a red Caddy, but because it was Willie Stargo

0:47:05.960 --> 0:47:11.000
<v Speaker 8>that talked him into purchasing it. When Willie passed away,

0:47:11.760 --> 0:47:15.520
<v Speaker 8>I remembered him saying, I would give anything in the

0:47:15.560 --> 0:47:18.600
<v Speaker 8>world if I had that red Caddy to pull up

0:47:18.600 --> 0:47:21.760
<v Speaker 8>at Willy's funeral in and I was like, why would

0:47:21.800 --> 0:47:24.520
<v Speaker 8>you do that? He said, Willie would understand.

0:47:24.920 --> 0:47:28.280
<v Speaker 1>My pops remembers that red caddy from the images published

0:47:28.280 --> 0:47:29.640
<v Speaker 1>in magazines of the day.

0:47:30.000 --> 0:47:32.720
<v Speaker 7>They had a picture of it at Ebony by Jet

0:47:32.840 --> 0:47:37.160
<v Speaker 7>one of them, and also in Sports Illustrated. Sports Illustrated

0:47:37.200 --> 0:47:40.840
<v Speaker 7>had leaning on a car. Yeah, and the athletes a

0:47:40.840 --> 0:47:42.360
<v Speaker 7>bought catallacts. They may sure you some.

0:47:46.480 --> 0:47:49.760
<v Speaker 1>That red caddy became a symbol of Doc his high living,

0:47:49.880 --> 0:47:53.680
<v Speaker 1>his success, and his blackness. And that car was how

0:47:53.719 --> 0:47:57.280
<v Speaker 1>the fans of Pittsburgh let Doc know they were pissed

0:47:57.320 --> 0:48:01.000
<v Speaker 1>that he was leaving the team. Some fans stole his

0:48:01.160 --> 0:48:05.080
<v Speaker 1>red Caddie and then they burned it to the ground.

0:48:05.680 --> 0:48:09.600
<v Speaker 8>He believes that it was because at that era, in

0:48:09.640 --> 0:48:12.360
<v Speaker 8>that time, he was a black man. He said, that

0:48:12.480 --> 0:48:15.560
<v Speaker 8>was the only way that he could ever see the

0:48:15.640 --> 0:48:19.400
<v Speaker 8>logic in it. Why it happened, and what happened to

0:48:19.440 --> 0:48:21.879
<v Speaker 8>the car once it was stolen. It wasn't like they

0:48:21.960 --> 0:48:24.839
<v Speaker 8>stole it and took it on a joy ride. They

0:48:24.920 --> 0:48:27.600
<v Speaker 8>stolen and then they set it on fire and burned it.

0:48:28.080 --> 0:48:30.920
<v Speaker 1>That was his goodbye from Pittsburgh, from the team and

0:48:31.000 --> 0:48:34.400
<v Speaker 1>the community he'd done so much for and given so

0:48:34.600 --> 0:48:39.400
<v Speaker 1>much of himself. There's a question of why Doc Ellis

0:48:39.560 --> 0:48:42.840
<v Speaker 1>isn't in the Hall of Fame. His career numbers suggest

0:48:43.320 --> 0:48:46.600
<v Speaker 1>he could possibly make the cut, but you won't see

0:48:46.640 --> 0:48:49.759
<v Speaker 1>his name in the Hall alongside so many of his

0:48:49.840 --> 0:48:53.279
<v Speaker 1>former teammates. For his wife, as jortis, a lot of

0:48:53.280 --> 0:48:56.000
<v Speaker 1>that comes down to not only how he pushed the

0:48:56.000 --> 0:48:59.000
<v Speaker 1>game to evolve and mature and live up to our

0:48:59.040 --> 0:49:03.040
<v Speaker 1>American idea of equality, but also it was due to

0:49:03.120 --> 0:49:06.720
<v Speaker 1>the embarrassment of the no hitter he'd pitched on acid.

0:49:07.480 --> 0:49:10.640
<v Speaker 1>As she tells it, Doc was rather convinced that.

0:49:10.760 --> 0:49:13.279
<v Speaker 8>Would be the thing that would always keep him from

0:49:13.320 --> 0:49:15.359
<v Speaker 8>being inducted into the Hall of Fame.

0:49:16.000 --> 0:49:19.400
<v Speaker 1>Between his no hitter on acid and his outspoken time

0:49:19.440 --> 0:49:23.040
<v Speaker 1>in the league, Doc had no illusions that Baseball's Hall

0:49:23.120 --> 0:49:25.439
<v Speaker 1>of Fame would ever honor him.

0:49:25.719 --> 0:49:28.080
<v Speaker 4>Doc had accepted that he would never be.

0:49:30.200 --> 0:49:34.800
<v Speaker 1>Thankfully, Doc's life was far bigger than baseball, and despite

0:49:35.080 --> 0:49:39.240
<v Speaker 1>the many slights he endured, the public backlashes he faced,

0:49:39.400 --> 0:49:43.400
<v Speaker 1>the emotional blows he took, he was able to find

0:49:43.520 --> 0:49:48.920
<v Speaker 1>a far more meaningful life outside the baseball diamond. In

0:49:49.040 --> 0:49:52.600
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy nine, Doc left the Texas Rangers. He was

0:49:52.680 --> 0:49:55.239
<v Speaker 1>traded to the New York Mets and then made a

0:49:55.320 --> 0:49:59.800
<v Speaker 1>return to Pittsburgh for his final three games before he retired.

0:50:00.160 --> 0:50:03.120
<v Speaker 1>At first, he thought he might go into broadcasting, he

0:50:03.239 --> 0:50:06.319
<v Speaker 1>certainly had the personality for it. Or perhaps he could

0:50:06.320 --> 0:50:09.279
<v Speaker 1>become a radio DJ, a wild man on the mic

0:50:09.560 --> 0:50:13.680
<v Speaker 1>in the vein of wolf Man Jack. But instead Doc

0:50:13.920 --> 0:50:18.360
<v Speaker 1>quit doing drugs. He got sober, and that changed everything.

0:50:18.880 --> 0:50:21.479
<v Speaker 1>It was the birth of his son that inspired him

0:50:21.560 --> 0:50:25.600
<v Speaker 1>to get sober. As Doc tells it, quote, I was

0:50:25.640 --> 0:50:27.440
<v Speaker 1>wearing a lot of jewelry at the time, and when

0:50:27.440 --> 0:50:30.239
<v Speaker 1>i'd hold him, I'd grab his arms and whatnot. Then

0:50:30.280 --> 0:50:33.240
<v Speaker 1>I read these stories about parents who shake their kids

0:50:33.280 --> 0:50:36.359
<v Speaker 1>and kill them. I asked myself, I wonder how hard

0:50:36.400 --> 0:50:40.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm grabbing them. Then I realized the truly up thing

0:50:40.360 --> 0:50:43.480
<v Speaker 1>that I had to ask myself at all. That's when

0:50:43.520 --> 0:50:46.200
<v Speaker 1>I knew something's wrong with me. I went to treatment

0:50:46.480 --> 0:50:50.160
<v Speaker 1>the next day. After going through treatment, he returned to

0:50:50.239 --> 0:50:52.960
<v Speaker 1>baseball not as a player, but as a drug counselor.

0:50:53.040 --> 0:50:55.440
<v Speaker 1>He tried to help other players get free of the

0:50:55.560 --> 0:50:59.560
<v Speaker 1>drugs that he felt bedeviled his career, his life.

0:51:00.239 --> 0:51:03.400
<v Speaker 8>Doc always said, they're working for the Yankees as a

0:51:03.400 --> 0:51:06.680
<v Speaker 8>substance abuse counselor was a role he gave him the

0:51:06.760 --> 0:51:11.680
<v Speaker 8>opportunity to turn all of his personal struggles into practical help.

0:51:11.840 --> 0:51:14.920
<v Speaker 8>He could reach players who were still in the cycle

0:51:15.000 --> 0:51:18.400
<v Speaker 8>of addiction. He had the blessing of being able to

0:51:18.440 --> 0:51:20.560
<v Speaker 8>speak from his own experience.

0:51:21.040 --> 0:51:24.400
<v Speaker 4>It ended up saving careers and lines.

0:51:24.640 --> 0:51:27.480
<v Speaker 8>I'm gonna be honest with you, I think he enjoyed

0:51:27.520 --> 0:51:32.560
<v Speaker 8>that job with the Yankees, working on the subton's abuse aspect,

0:51:33.040 --> 0:51:37.400
<v Speaker 8>far more than he enjoyed being on the field.

0:51:37.960 --> 0:51:42.160
<v Speaker 1>That's how his post baseball life took shape. He found meaning,

0:51:42.320 --> 0:51:45.799
<v Speaker 1>he found redemption, and he did not do it for headlines.

0:51:46.080 --> 0:51:49.439
<v Speaker 1>He did it quietly, He did it humbly. He did

0:51:49.440 --> 0:51:51.240
<v Speaker 1>it for himself and for others.

0:51:51.680 --> 0:51:55.200
<v Speaker 8>The work meant so much to him, and Doc found

0:51:55.440 --> 0:52:00.919
<v Speaker 8>nothing but purpose in counseling, mentoring, advocating for those who

0:52:01.560 --> 0:52:02.759
<v Speaker 8>had no advocates.

0:52:03.200 --> 0:52:07.120
<v Speaker 1>Ultimately, drug counseling became a far more important part of

0:52:07.160 --> 0:52:10.759
<v Speaker 1>his life than his career in the majors. You might

0:52:10.840 --> 0:52:14.120
<v Speaker 1>say he was a drug counselor who used to play baseball.

0:52:14.760 --> 0:52:15.240
<v Speaker 4>Substance.

0:52:15.280 --> 0:52:20.200
<v Speaker 8>Abused counseling truly became the heart of his life mission.

0:52:20.920 --> 0:52:25.000
<v Speaker 8>To see him sit and stand at the podium and speak,

0:52:25.480 --> 0:52:29.000
<v Speaker 8>it was mesmerizing. He just had charisma like that. He

0:52:29.040 --> 0:52:32.839
<v Speaker 8>had the boys, he had the courage, you know, and

0:52:32.880 --> 0:52:35.720
<v Speaker 8>he was going to always speak truth to Powell.

0:52:39.320 --> 0:52:44.080
<v Speaker 1>Doc was particularly effective speaking to incarcerated youth. He was

0:52:44.160 --> 0:52:47.360
<v Speaker 1>a former major leaguer, so that was exciting for them.

0:52:47.400 --> 0:52:50.560
<v Speaker 1>But also he knew the lives they had led. He

0:52:50.719 --> 0:52:54.160
<v Speaker 1>got them at that bone deep level. He could speak

0:52:54.200 --> 0:52:57.440
<v Speaker 1>to them from the heart and they would listen eagerly.

0:52:58.160 --> 0:53:00.960
<v Speaker 1>But one thing he would not talk about was his

0:53:01.280 --> 0:53:03.120
<v Speaker 1>no hitter on acid.

0:53:03.280 --> 0:53:06.400
<v Speaker 7>Because it delivers the wrong message. That's all they would remember.

0:53:06.480 --> 0:53:09.080
<v Speaker 7>If he was talking about that, they would enjoy the story.

0:53:09.320 --> 0:53:13.600
<v Speaker 7>They'd be laughing, so they would forget everything else he said. So, yeah,

0:53:13.640 --> 0:53:15.880
<v Speaker 7>that's how he did the right thing by not talking

0:53:15.920 --> 0:53:16.319
<v Speaker 7>about it.

0:53:16.760 --> 0:53:18.600
<v Speaker 4>The beautiful thing about that.

0:53:18.920 --> 0:53:23.440
<v Speaker 8>Once Doc realized where he truly fit in, what his

0:53:23.719 --> 0:53:29.239
<v Speaker 8>true purpose was, he threw every amount of energy he

0:53:29.520 --> 0:53:31.600
<v Speaker 8>had into helping the youth.

0:53:31.960 --> 0:53:33.920
<v Speaker 4>Not just youth, young.

0:53:33.719 --> 0:53:38.520
<v Speaker 8>Men who were caught up in the system, especially individuals

0:53:38.560 --> 0:53:42.879
<v Speaker 8>that he deemed is at risk behind bars, and one

0:53:42.880 --> 0:53:45.680
<v Speaker 8>thing he was not going to do is glorify his

0:53:45.920 --> 0:53:49.760
<v Speaker 8>LSD no hitter because he just didn't want young people

0:53:49.800 --> 0:53:52.759
<v Speaker 8>to see it as an endorsement of drugs.

0:53:53.080 --> 0:53:56.840
<v Speaker 1>The very thing he's now most remembered for he never

0:53:56.920 --> 0:53:59.880
<v Speaker 1>wanted to speak about. He wanted to leave all that

0:54:00.160 --> 0:54:03.879
<v Speaker 1>behind so that he could truly change lives. One thing

0:54:04.040 --> 0:54:08.040
<v Speaker 1>is certain, his old friend and teammate Roberto Clemente would

0:54:08.040 --> 0:54:09.960
<v Speaker 1>have been very, very proud.

0:54:11.680 --> 0:54:16.840
<v Speaker 8>So his whole thing was, let's redirect this story, let's

0:54:16.960 --> 0:54:20.520
<v Speaker 8>move away from the drugs, and let's talk about what

0:54:20.640 --> 0:54:25.080
<v Speaker 8>our lives could be without that. Because of that fact,

0:54:25.120 --> 0:54:27.880
<v Speaker 8>he didn't want to ever appear to be glorifying that

0:54:28.040 --> 0:54:30.000
<v Speaker 8>part of his life or his history.

0:54:30.440 --> 0:54:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Doc Elis spent twelve years in Major League baseball. He

0:54:33.920 --> 0:54:37.560
<v Speaker 1>spent much longer as a drug counselor, and in that

0:54:37.719 --> 0:54:41.920
<v Speaker 1>mission he found his life's true purpose. At the end

0:54:42.000 --> 0:54:45.759
<v Speaker 1>of his life, he faced a painful illness, but how

0:54:45.800 --> 0:54:49.799
<v Speaker 1>he'd lived his life gave him peace. In those final days, he.

0:54:49.840 --> 0:54:52.799
<v Speaker 8>Said to me, he said, you know what, Jordie, I

0:54:52.880 --> 0:54:55.640
<v Speaker 8>know I'm gonna die, but at least I can die

0:54:55.840 --> 0:54:59.760
<v Speaker 8>saying that I had thirty two good years versus sixty

0:54:59.760 --> 0:55:02.719
<v Speaker 8>three bad years, and the thirty two good years he

0:55:02.880 --> 0:55:06.319
<v Speaker 8>was speaking of was his life after baseball.

0:55:06.800 --> 0:55:09.319
<v Speaker 1>In two thousand and eight, Doc Ellis passed away at

0:55:09.360 --> 0:55:12.560
<v Speaker 1>the age of sixty three, and in order to honor

0:55:12.600 --> 0:55:16.280
<v Speaker 1>his life, his work, his memory, his wife had Jordis,

0:55:16.360 --> 0:55:20.400
<v Speaker 1>started the Doc Ellis Foundation. They continue to work in

0:55:20.440 --> 0:55:23.320
<v Speaker 1>the spirit of Doc and they do it for the people.

0:55:24.680 --> 0:55:26.480
<v Speaker 4>The Foundation's mission is clear.

0:55:26.640 --> 0:55:30.520
<v Speaker 8>I mean, we coordinate support for black and brown families

0:55:30.520 --> 0:55:34.040
<v Speaker 8>that are dealing with violins, missing loved ones, any type

0:55:34.040 --> 0:55:38.040
<v Speaker 8>of injustice. We're here to help anyone who is dealing

0:55:38.080 --> 0:55:41.560
<v Speaker 8>with violence, a missing loved one. We placed our main

0:55:41.600 --> 0:55:45.239
<v Speaker 8>focus on black and brown families because those are the

0:55:45.360 --> 0:55:48.440
<v Speaker 8>voices that are the least paid attention to.

0:55:49.040 --> 0:55:51.440
<v Speaker 4>Those are the voices that are the least heard.

0:55:52.000 --> 0:55:55.960
<v Speaker 1>That seems to be the perfect way to honor Doc Ellis.

0:55:56.640 --> 0:55:59.719
<v Speaker 1>As for the biopic film that will one day celebrate

0:55:59.760 --> 0:56:03.600
<v Speaker 1>his life, the film producer David Permitt says.

0:56:03.320 --> 0:56:06.360
<v Speaker 10>That, Yeah, he's a hero of mine because he's a survivor.

0:56:07.120 --> 0:56:10.160
<v Speaker 10>He survived. He survived in light of the racism, in

0:56:10.239 --> 0:56:12.680
<v Speaker 10>light of the drug abuse, in light of everything else

0:56:12.719 --> 0:56:14.440
<v Speaker 10>that he had to contend with in his life.

0:56:14.520 --> 0:56:16.840
<v Speaker 13>Looking back on his life, while you know, when we

0:56:16.840 --> 0:56:19.000
<v Speaker 13>think of Doc Ellis, we think of a no hitter

0:56:19.080 --> 0:56:21.239
<v Speaker 13>on acid, right, you know, we go right away to that.

0:56:22.000 --> 0:56:23.920
<v Speaker 13>But I think there's a lot more meat on the bone,

0:56:23.960 --> 0:56:25.719
<v Speaker 13>honestly than just that incident.

0:56:26.680 --> 0:56:29.120
<v Speaker 1>As my pop sums it up, Doc Elis can be

0:56:29.239 --> 0:56:30.719
<v Speaker 1>proud of the fact.

0:56:30.440 --> 0:56:34.080
<v Speaker 7>That he was successful in baseball in spite of himself,

0:56:34.840 --> 0:56:36.440
<v Speaker 7>and he was successful afterwards.

0:56:36.520 --> 0:56:37.560
<v Speaker 3>It calls of himself.

0:56:38.200 --> 0:56:40.800
<v Speaker 8>I can remember on his deathbed one of the things

0:56:40.840 --> 0:56:43.880
<v Speaker 8>Doc said to me that out of all the things

0:56:43.920 --> 0:56:46.360
<v Speaker 8>that he had done in his life, whether it was

0:56:46.440 --> 0:56:50.000
<v Speaker 8>good or bad, the one thing he wished he could

0:56:50.040 --> 0:56:52.520
<v Speaker 8>go back and change if he could, and that was

0:56:52.560 --> 0:56:55.319
<v Speaker 8>that game on that day. He still wanted to pitch

0:56:55.360 --> 0:56:57.920
<v Speaker 8>the no hitter, but without the drugs.

0:56:59.400 --> 0:57:03.719
<v Speaker 1>That was a very important to Doc Ellis, because.

0:57:04.400 --> 0:57:06.880
<v Speaker 8>Doc had a real issue with that, because he wanted

0:57:06.920 --> 0:57:10.359
<v Speaker 8>to be more so known for who he was off

0:57:10.440 --> 0:57:14.239
<v Speaker 8>the field versus who he was on the field. He

0:57:14.360 --> 0:57:17.880
<v Speaker 8>always said that anybody truly could be a baseball player

0:57:17.920 --> 0:57:21.240
<v Speaker 8>and a good baseball player if they had the mindset,

0:57:21.680 --> 0:57:24.920
<v Speaker 8>but everybody was not capable of or willing to be

0:57:25.360 --> 0:57:26.120
<v Speaker 8>a real man.

0:57:26.760 --> 0:57:31.520
<v Speaker 1>Ultimately, Doc Ellis is far, far more than the ballplayer

0:57:31.560 --> 0:57:34.600
<v Speaker 1>who pitched a no hitter on acid. He was a

0:57:34.760 --> 0:57:38.520
<v Speaker 1>true American folk hero, a man who paid a high

0:57:38.600 --> 0:57:42.640
<v Speaker 1>price to enjoy the freedom that comes with being an American,

0:57:43.120 --> 0:57:46.720
<v Speaker 1>and he spent the majority of his life improving the

0:57:46.800 --> 0:57:55.280
<v Speaker 1>lives of others. That is his lasting legacy. One important note.

0:57:55.560 --> 0:57:59.640
<v Speaker 1>Todd Snyder, the beloved folk singer, tragically passed away not

0:57:59.760 --> 0:58:04.280
<v Speaker 1>long after our conversation. This might be the last interview

0:58:04.440 --> 0:58:08.680
<v Speaker 1>he ever gave. A statement posted on Snyder's Facebook page

0:58:08.960 --> 0:58:13.040
<v Speaker 1>said it well, quote, we love you, Todd sail on,

0:58:13.360 --> 0:58:17.200
<v Speaker 1>old friend. We'll see you again out there on the

0:58:17.320 --> 0:58:22.000
<v Speaker 1>road somewhere down the line.

0:58:25.400 --> 0:58:28.160
<v Speaker 5>All right, Jaren, there seems like there's been a movie

0:58:28.200 --> 0:58:30.240
<v Speaker 5>about this in development for many years.

0:58:30.240 --> 0:58:31.440
<v Speaker 3>Can you tell us anything.

0:58:31.160 --> 0:58:34.000
<v Speaker 5>About the project or maybe help them along by giving

0:58:34.000 --> 0:58:35.440
<v Speaker 5>them some casting input?

0:58:35.880 --> 0:58:38.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, one hundred percent. So I know that to

0:58:39.320 --> 0:58:42.680
<v Speaker 1>permit the filmmaker, he's been talking to various people. I

0:58:42.680 --> 0:58:44.320
<v Speaker 1>don't know if he wants me to like bust out

0:58:44.360 --> 0:58:47.440
<v Speaker 1>what casting I do know, So I'll say the casting

0:58:47.600 --> 0:58:49.760
<v Speaker 1>that and then we can maybe I'll return to in

0:58:49.800 --> 0:58:52.840
<v Speaker 1>a second. But for Doc Ellis, I went with young

0:58:52.960 --> 0:58:56.680
<v Speaker 1>Lawrence Fishburne or young Forrest Whitaker. Obviously neither is available

0:58:56.760 --> 0:58:59.600
<v Speaker 1>due to age, but those would be my two. For

0:58:59.680 --> 0:59:02.880
<v Speaker 1>Robert Clemente, I went with a Damson Idris. I thought

0:59:02.880 --> 0:59:04.800
<v Speaker 1>he would be really good at this. Obviously you'd have

0:59:04.800 --> 0:59:07.920
<v Speaker 1>to work on the Spanish. And now for Dave Parker,

0:59:08.040 --> 0:59:11.000
<v Speaker 1>his Pittsburgh Pirate teammate, I thought Winston Duke, the big

0:59:11.040 --> 0:59:14.080
<v Speaker 1>brother from Black Panther, he'd be really good. And then

0:59:14.120 --> 0:59:16.560
<v Speaker 1>for Vita Blue, this is a non actor, but I

0:59:16.560 --> 0:59:18.760
<v Speaker 1>think he's got the charisma and obviously the time on

0:59:18.840 --> 0:59:21.800
<v Speaker 1>set to pull it off. Ryan Kugler, oh I've forgotten.

0:59:22.080 --> 0:59:25.440
<v Speaker 1>For Jackie Robinson, John Washington, Denzel's.

0:59:24.920 --> 0:59:26.680
<v Speaker 4>Boy, Oh yeah, he's great.

0:59:26.800 --> 0:59:29.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, get him in there, right, that's by general casting.

0:59:30.040 --> 0:59:33.960
<v Speaker 1>And then I hear you know, whispers that Lakeith Stanfield

0:59:34.040 --> 0:59:36.360
<v Speaker 1>has been involved or is circling the project, or his

0:59:36.680 --> 0:59:38.400
<v Speaker 1>strong possibility.

0:59:37.800 --> 0:59:40.400
<v Speaker 5>To be Doc, which I like, love it for any

0:59:40.400 --> 0:59:44.320
<v Speaker 5>of us, any very special character or very special moments

0:59:44.480 --> 0:59:46.360
<v Speaker 5>you want to shout out in this one.

0:59:46.680 --> 0:59:46.960
<v Speaker 4>Hmm.

0:59:47.720 --> 0:59:49.520
<v Speaker 5>I'll start with the Jackie Robinson letter.

0:59:49.680 --> 0:59:50.120
<v Speaker 3>I love that.

0:59:50.520 --> 0:59:53.360
<v Speaker 6>I was gonna say, Jackie Robinson really shows up.

0:59:54.000 --> 0:59:56.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah right, I mean the fact that it takes both

0:59:56.920 --> 0:59:59.680
<v Speaker 1>his wife cry and Doc cry, you know, and then

0:59:59.800 --> 1:00:02.560
<v Speaker 1>I'll it made me get emotional just to hearing about it.

1:00:02.560 --> 1:00:04.040
<v Speaker 1>So I think, yeah, we all have to kind of

1:00:04.040 --> 1:00:06.440
<v Speaker 1>agree on that one, the Jackie Robinson letter and the

1:00:06.480 --> 1:00:07.640
<v Speaker 1>wife if we're.

1:00:07.480 --> 1:00:11.440
<v Speaker 5>Doing very special character Doc's wife jordis, Yeah, she is,

1:00:12.280 --> 1:00:15.840
<v Speaker 5>you know, keeping this story alive, like going well beyond

1:00:15.960 --> 1:00:19.920
<v Speaker 5>the Snapple fact version of the story. And I found

1:00:19.960 --> 1:00:23.240
<v Speaker 5>the second half of his life far more interesting than

1:00:23.320 --> 1:00:26.480
<v Speaker 5>just that one game, which was also pretty interesting completely.

1:00:26.560 --> 1:00:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they were definitely very much like partners in sobriety

1:00:29.080 --> 1:00:32.160
<v Speaker 1>and in doing community service. And I just found a

1:00:32.200 --> 1:00:36.560
<v Speaker 1>really compelling teller of his story, but also just in

1:00:36.680 --> 1:00:39.680
<v Speaker 1>terms of the value of what his real life was

1:00:39.760 --> 1:00:42.240
<v Speaker 1>outside of baseball. It is like she really sold me

1:00:42.280 --> 1:00:44.520
<v Speaker 1>on the idea that it's like being a baseball player

1:00:44.640 --> 1:00:46.240
<v Speaker 1>was a very small part of his life.

1:00:46.840 --> 1:00:48.040
<v Speaker 5>And getting your dad in there.

1:00:48.240 --> 1:00:49.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, shout out to Pops.

1:00:51.760 --> 1:00:54.840
<v Speaker 5>Very Special Episodes is made by some very special people.

1:00:55.240 --> 1:00:59.040
<v Speaker 5>Today's episode was produced in partnership with School of Humans

1:00:59.600 --> 1:01:04.160
<v Speaker 5>to show hosted by Zaren Burnett, Danish Schwartz and Jason English.

1:01:04.360 --> 1:01:08.640
<v Speaker 5>Our senior producer is Josh Fisher. Today's episode was written

1:01:08.680 --> 1:01:13.680
<v Speaker 5>by Zaren Burnett. Our story editor is Virginia Prescott from

1:01:13.720 --> 1:01:16.760
<v Speaker 5>School of Humans. Producers are Etily's Perez.

1:01:16.360 --> 1:01:17.280
<v Speaker 1>And Amelia Brock.

1:01:18.200 --> 1:01:22.600
<v Speaker 5>Editing and sound design by Jesse Niswanger, Additional editing by

1:01:22.640 --> 1:01:26.960
<v Speaker 5>Mary Doo. Research and fact checking by Austin Thompson and

1:01:27.040 --> 1:01:31.600
<v Speaker 5>Zaren Burnett. Original music by Alisa McCoy, Show logo by

1:01:31.640 --> 1:01:36.800
<v Speaker 5>Lucy Quintonia. Executive producers of today's episode are Virginia Prescott

1:01:36.880 --> 1:01:40.560
<v Speaker 5>and Jason English. Very Special Episodes is a production of

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<v Speaker 5>iHeart Podcasts.