WEBVTT - Inventing a Vaccine for Bees 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:21.996 Pushkin. How many times have you been stung? 0:00:23.316 --> 0:00:23.636 Many? 0:00:24.276 --> 0:00:24.556 Ten? 0:00:25.156 --> 0:00:28.396 Oh yeah, yeah, one hundred. Probably each season I get 0:00:28.436 --> 0:00:32.916 a few be stunks. I mean, we do kind of 0:00:32.916 --> 0:00:35.396 a nasty things to the bee hive. We still want 0:00:35.436 --> 0:00:39.236 larvae to check the immune priming effects, and they don't 0:00:39.316 --> 0:00:39.556 like it. 0:00:39.596 --> 0:00:41.076 Obviously, I can't blame them. 0:00:41.996 --> 0:00:43.996 So you're telling me you had it coming. 0:00:44.476 --> 0:00:46.916 Yes, I had it coming. I also sell it to 0:00:46.956 --> 0:00:50.636 all my students. That's okay, that's normal. Just let me know. 0:00:50.716 --> 0:00:52.676 If you develop allergies. 0:00:52.996 --> 0:00:54.756 Does it make it harder to get students to come 0:00:54.836 --> 0:00:55.996 work with you? 0:00:56.036 --> 0:00:57.916 No, No, not at all. 0:01:03.756 --> 0:01:06.196 I'm Jacob Goldstein and this is What's Your Problem, the 0:01:06.236 --> 0:01:08.556 show where I talk to people who are trying to 0:01:08.596 --> 0:01:13.276 make tech logical progress. I have two guests today. One 0:01:13.356 --> 0:01:16.236 is Dhali al Freytech. That's who you just heard. The 0:01:16.276 --> 0:01:19.716 other is Anetta Claiser. Together they are the co founders 0:01:19.756 --> 0:01:23.196 of a company called Dalon Animal Health, and they have 0:01:23.276 --> 0:01:27.436 brought to market a vaccine for bees. It is the 0:01:27.476 --> 0:01:31.316 first ever vaccine for any insect, and their story is 0:01:31.356 --> 0:01:34.716 interesting and important on a number of levels, including, but 0:01:34.876 --> 0:01:38.196 not limited to, how do you even make a vaccine 0:01:38.276 --> 0:01:41.556 for an insect? Also what's going on with bees these 0:01:41.636 --> 0:01:45.916 days anyways? And if you can vaccinate bees, what other 0:01:45.996 --> 0:01:52.156 insects might you want a vaccinate. Annettaklizer is the CEO. 0:01:52.836 --> 0:01:56.996 She spent her career working in technology transfer, basically figuring 0:01:56.996 --> 0:02:00.676 out how to turn academics ideas into real world products 0:02:00.716 --> 0:02:03.876 and businesses. Later in the show, we'll have my interview 0:02:03.876 --> 0:02:07.116 with Annetta about testing the vaccine and bringing it to 0:02:07.196 --> 0:02:10.556 market and also what's happening with bees and the bee 0:02:10.556 --> 0:02:14.276 industry such as it is. But first we're going to 0:02:14.316 --> 0:02:17.876 play my conversation with dhali Al about the basic research 0:02:17.916 --> 0:02:21.116 she did that led to this idea of a vaccine 0:02:21.116 --> 0:02:21.636 for bees. 0:02:22.276 --> 0:02:26.756 So when I started to work on insect immunity two 0:02:26.796 --> 0:02:30.076 decades ago, where was not a lot known about it, 0:02:30.556 --> 0:02:33.196 So it was a bit. It was really like I 0:02:33.236 --> 0:02:36.716 would say, in kindo shoes. 0:02:36.516 --> 0:02:38.996 Kinder shoes like baby shoes. Yeah, baby shoes. 0:02:38.996 --> 0:02:42.476 I think it's in English English interest. I'm sorry, but 0:02:42.596 --> 0:02:46.476 it was really like the beginnings of it. Basically, it 0:02:46.516 --> 0:02:49.796 was it was a stage where something is happening, but 0:02:49.956 --> 0:02:51.116 we don't know what it is. 0:02:51.316 --> 0:02:54.036 At some point you get interested in this question of 0:02:54.556 --> 0:02:58.196 can be's acquire immunity. Can they become immune based on 0:02:58.276 --> 0:03:01.716 exposure to a pathogen? How does that arise? How does 0:03:01.716 --> 0:03:02.676 that question arise? 0:03:03.076 --> 0:03:06.436 Yeah, that question actually arrived during my PhD time when 0:03:06.476 --> 0:03:07.356 I've worked with. 0:03:07.636 --> 0:03:10.516 Moffs and not with that Okay, yeah. 0:03:10.316 --> 0:03:15.076 It was before honeybees. So the observation what I made 0:03:15.156 --> 0:03:18.996 during the time was like, if a parental generation was 0:03:19.036 --> 0:03:22.476 growing up in the environment where a lot of bacteria present, 0:03:22.836 --> 0:03:26.836 the immunity in the second generation was changed. Now, insects 0:03:26.876 --> 0:03:29.516 do not have antibodies, and we've been looking for for 0:03:29.676 --> 0:03:31.916 decades we haven't found and they do not exist in 0:03:31.996 --> 0:03:34.996 insects as we know it today at least, And yet 0:03:35.796 --> 0:03:40.356 I observe certain transfer of knowledge of immune system activation 0:03:40.436 --> 0:03:43.556 to the second generation. And it was just like super 0:03:43.596 --> 0:03:47.396 exciting discoveries, like how is that possible? What is happening? 0:03:47.436 --> 0:03:49.636 Because they don't have antibodies, so there must be some 0:03:49.676 --> 0:03:54.356 other mechanism what is at play? And so that's what 0:03:54.516 --> 0:03:57.116 really caught me kind of fooked in that question. So 0:03:57.156 --> 0:04:01.396 how does that transfer happen? And that's there. The honeybee 0:04:01.716 --> 0:04:05.556 was really the model to study for me that kind 0:04:05.596 --> 0:04:08.316 of helped really to progress and knowledge. 0:04:08.636 --> 0:04:12.916 And so so so so you see that there is 0:04:13.756 --> 0:04:18.476 inherited immunity, right, that offspring have have some kind of 0:04:18.516 --> 0:04:22.356 immunity that they get from their parents. And the question 0:04:22.436 --> 0:04:25.516 is how does how does that happen? What's the mechanism exactly? 0:04:25.756 --> 0:04:28.996 And so what I actually started to think about when 0:04:28.996 --> 0:04:31.316 it's like, okay, let's take a step back and let's 0:04:31.356 --> 0:04:37.676 think how does the parental generation encounter pathogens like American 0:04:37.716 --> 0:04:40.556 fault root in honeybees? So how do we encounter it? 0:04:40.636 --> 0:04:44.916 And the answer is very simple. They eat it. Basically, 0:04:44.956 --> 0:04:48.956 It's it's a kind of like the digestive tract infection, 0:04:49.396 --> 0:04:51.876 like it would be salmonella in humans. Right, you would 0:04:51.916 --> 0:04:53.036 eat it in you would get. 0:04:52.916 --> 0:04:58.996 Sick, food borne disease. Food. That's how these get infectious. 0:04:58.476 --> 0:05:01.676 Disease exactly in this case in American foul broot, that's 0:05:01.756 --> 0:05:04.516 that's a food borne disease. And so my my next 0:05:04.556 --> 0:05:08.196 question what happens was what happens with bacteria in the 0:05:08.316 --> 0:05:12.156 gut And the very simple answer, they get digested, They 0:05:12.236 --> 0:05:16.516 get cut into little pieces by the enzymes, by digestive enzymes, 0:05:16.516 --> 0:05:20.236 by immune system. Now, the next question was what happens 0:05:20.276 --> 0:05:25.116 with the pieces? That was really for me this fascinating 0:05:26.076 --> 0:05:28.956 discovery where I saw that these little pieces of bacteria 0:05:29.076 --> 0:05:32.836 are transferred from a digestive system to the body cavity 0:05:33.556 --> 0:05:36.476 and I was like, okay, cool, and we know once 0:05:36.556 --> 0:05:39.276 they are there they can activate. These pieces of bacteria 0:05:39.396 --> 0:05:42.036 can activate immune system. We know that because the immune 0:05:42.076 --> 0:05:46.636 system receptors are in these parts in the body cavity, 0:05:46.676 --> 0:05:50.036 and they could trigger an immunity, which is cool. But 0:05:50.156 --> 0:05:52.916 this would be within one generation. So how would this 0:05:53.196 --> 0:05:57.076 knowledge of encountering this bacteria be transferred from one generation 0:05:57.156 --> 0:05:59.676 to a number? So that was a fascinating question. 0:06:00.276 --> 0:06:03.036 And I know that to answer that question, you wind 0:06:03.116 --> 0:06:06.196 up looking at this at this particular protein. It's called 0:06:06.356 --> 0:06:09.876 vitellogen in right, and it's in eggs, in all kinds 0:06:09.916 --> 0:06:11.996 of eggs, in b eggs and in chicken eggs. So 0:06:12.596 --> 0:06:14.756 and you wind up looking at this protein as sort 0:06:14.756 --> 0:06:17.996 of tea to the way that immunity gets passed from 0:06:18.036 --> 0:06:21.516 the queen to her offspring. So how did you figure 0:06:21.556 --> 0:06:21.956 that out? 0:06:22.676 --> 0:06:27.276 Yes, so there was absolutely And I do remember this moment. 0:06:27.356 --> 0:06:31.356 It's it was we had a lab meeting in hell 0:06:31.436 --> 0:06:34.276 Sinking and then this new post talk in our group. 0:06:34.636 --> 0:06:38.996 She presented her work on the honeybee Betelo Jenny, and 0:06:39.116 --> 0:06:42.196 she mentioned in her talk, oh and in fish it's 0:06:42.236 --> 0:06:46.116 shown that vitellogenny can buy into bacteria. That was like 0:06:46.156 --> 0:06:50.636 this one sentence and for me it was like, oh 0:06:50.676 --> 0:06:54.516 my god, this must be my shuttle bus for the 0:06:54.636 --> 0:06:58.756 pieces of bacteria. So after the lab meeting was over, 0:06:58.956 --> 0:07:00.836 I asked, can I talk to you for a moment. 0:07:00.956 --> 0:07:05.276 So I said, hey, I believe that your protein takes 0:07:05.316 --> 0:07:09.316 my signal to next generation. Do you have some of 0:07:09.356 --> 0:07:12.116 it in a lab and can we do experiment to 0:07:12.236 --> 0:07:15.956 prove it. She was like, yeah, well it's a bit expensive, 0:07:15.996 --> 0:07:18.076 but yeah, I think it's a cool idea that's cue 0:07:18.116 --> 0:07:21.956 to try. So it was literally us two post dogs. 0:07:21.956 --> 0:07:25.036 So we ordered a bunch of honey queens and we 0:07:25.116 --> 0:07:29.516 carried out the experiment and it was it was very exciting. 0:07:29.756 --> 0:07:32.876 It literally have to say, I mean I could not 0:07:33.036 --> 0:07:36.796 sleep the night before and then we carried out the 0:07:36.796 --> 0:07:40.996 experiments and it was exactly as we predicted, so intelligent 0:07:41.076 --> 0:07:43.996 in verse exactly a protein what takes the pieces of 0:07:43.996 --> 0:07:46.836 bacteris the next generation. I mean, I think that has 0:07:46.876 --> 0:07:50.716 been one of the most happiest moments of my life. 0:07:50.756 --> 0:07:53.476 I mean, I could not sleep entire night. I was 0:07:53.556 --> 0:07:55.676 keeping the smile on my face. Oh my god, Yes, 0:07:55.716 --> 0:07:56.516 we did it. We did it. 0:07:56.556 --> 0:07:57.436 We did it. We did it. 0:07:59.116 --> 0:08:02.716 So from there, how do you get to the idea 0:08:02.756 --> 0:08:03.756 of making a vaccine? 0:08:06.796 --> 0:08:10.956 Good question? I think first we've really focused only on 0:08:11.036 --> 0:08:17.316 the science and basic research and fundamental results of it, 0:08:17.396 --> 0:08:19.796 what it means for a science, and it's a preak 0:08:19.876 --> 0:08:24.996 crough understanding how immunity works in invertebrates and in insects. 0:08:24.476 --> 0:08:24.556 And. 0:08:26.116 --> 0:08:29.676 And somebody kind of told us, hey, you know, could 0:08:29.676 --> 0:08:33.396 you use it also in industrial level? So it's kind 0:08:33.396 --> 0:08:35.756 of like a vaccine, right, And we said, yeah, it's 0:08:35.836 --> 0:08:40.476 kind of like a vaccine. And when somebody laughed, oh, 0:08:40.476 --> 0:08:44.036 you should, you know, take it, take it further, and 0:08:44.076 --> 0:08:46.796 we were like, oh, yeah, we should take it further. 0:08:47.316 --> 0:08:52.876 And we got in contact with Innovation Services in Helsing 0:08:53.036 --> 0:08:57.676 University and we pitched our idea to them. And their 0:08:57.716 --> 0:09:00.436 first question, of course results, is it already published? Can 0:09:00.476 --> 0:09:02.716 we patent it? And we said no, no, no, it's not 0:09:02.756 --> 0:09:06.836 published yet. We are preparing publication and we never even 0:09:06.876 --> 0:09:10.156 thought about patenting it at that moment. And they said, okay, 0:09:10.156 --> 0:09:12.556 we should patent it, and we would like to take 0:09:12.596 --> 0:09:16.196 this project further and see if we can make a 0:09:16.236 --> 0:09:19.276 real world product and the company out of it. And 0:09:19.916 --> 0:09:22.796 I think from that moment on, I was totally set 0:09:22.796 --> 0:09:24.716 in it and I was thinking, yes, I want to 0:09:24.756 --> 0:09:26.676 make it a real world product. 0:09:27.036 --> 0:09:29.356 What kind of responses were you getting when you were 0:09:29.356 --> 0:09:30.236 pitching your ideas. 0:09:32.076 --> 0:09:35.396 I think people looked at with a mixture of all, 0:09:35.476 --> 0:09:40.116 that's really cool idea and like, huh. I still have 0:09:40.316 --> 0:09:42.676 everywhere and I know it's gonna be a podcast. But 0:09:42.956 --> 0:09:45.436 whereas this queen cage, I always have it with me. 0:09:45.516 --> 0:09:47.276 I still have it obvious with me as we're. 0:09:47.156 --> 0:09:49.676 Literally holding it up when you just carry it around. 0:09:49.356 --> 0:09:51.116 With you, Yes, I do, and have it on my 0:09:51.196 --> 0:09:54.636 table and my work office, in my home office, in 0:09:54.716 --> 0:09:57.396 all my bags then I travel, so I would say, no, 0:09:57.476 --> 0:10:00.156 it's not injection, it's oral vaccine. You see, this is 0:10:00.196 --> 0:10:03.436 where Queen Bee's held, and this is where vaccine will be. 0:10:03.836 --> 0:10:05.676 And just to be clear, you're holding up a little 0:10:05.796 --> 0:10:10.556 sort of transparent plastic case, maybe a little bigger than 0:10:10.596 --> 0:10:12.436 a pack of gum, about the size of a pack 0:10:12.476 --> 0:10:15.836 of gums, say, with little airholes presumably, so you put 0:10:15.836 --> 0:10:17.596 the Queen Bee in there and the holes are so 0:10:17.796 --> 0:10:19.116 the queen can breathe exactly. 0:10:19.436 --> 0:10:24.676 That's what I've been pitching for past uh a few years, 0:10:25.036 --> 0:10:28.356 and Annette was one of the people I pitched it 0:10:28.396 --> 0:10:30.116 to and I convinced her. 0:10:32.716 --> 0:10:35.636 Annette is Annetta Claiser, the person who wound up being 0:10:35.716 --> 0:10:40.196 Dhaliel's co founder at Dalon Animal Health. In fact, Dalan 0:10:40.396 --> 0:10:44.276 is for dahali Al and Annetta dal On. We'll be 0:10:44.316 --> 0:10:47.196 back in a minute to talk with Annetta about how 0:10:47.236 --> 0:10:50.996 she and dhali all turned Dhaliel's basic research into a 0:10:51.076 --> 0:10:54.156 vaccine that has now been used on millions of beats. 0:11:05.636 --> 0:11:09.036 My name is Aneticizer and I'm the CEO of DNA 0:11:09.356 --> 0:11:09.996 Animal Health. 0:11:10.556 --> 0:11:15.116 How did you get into the bee vaccine business? 0:11:15.836 --> 0:11:20.316 By complete accident? It was a complete accident. I was 0:11:21.236 --> 0:11:26.916 at the University of Helsinki in twenty eighteen to visit 0:11:27.676 --> 0:11:31.596 DA Frighttack happened to be in the office while I 0:11:31.836 --> 0:11:35.556 was visiting, and the director called her in and said, 0:11:35.556 --> 0:11:38.316 you have to meet these folks and tell them about 0:11:38.396 --> 0:11:42.556 your b vaccine. And so she presented to us. She 0:11:42.596 --> 0:11:46.476 came into the room and I was just amazed. I 0:11:47.276 --> 0:11:51.836 was just say, we all know bees are dying we 0:11:51.916 --> 0:11:57.036 all know they're essential for our survival around the world. 0:11:57.156 --> 0:12:01.196 It's a big issue, and we all throw our hands 0:12:01.276 --> 0:12:04.716 up and here is somebody that has an idea, yet 0:12:04.916 --> 0:12:08.116 very early stage, but still you know it was it 0:12:08.236 --> 0:12:12.116 was an idea that that we had to take. And 0:12:12.156 --> 0:12:15.356 so we got together and we talked, and a few 0:12:15.356 --> 0:12:17.516 months later we decided to start a company and give 0:12:17.556 --> 0:12:17.996 it a try. 0:12:18.316 --> 0:12:22.436 So you had been working in technology transfer for years 0:12:22.476 --> 0:12:26.196 at this point, right, and sort of essentially helping universities 0:12:26.276 --> 0:12:31.836 turn scientific ideas into companies. You had never jumped ship before. 0:12:32.036 --> 0:12:34.436 You had never seen an idea that made you say, 0:12:34.756 --> 0:12:37.196 holy cow, I'm gonna quit my job and go all 0:12:37.196 --> 0:12:41.556 in on this one idea. Why this one? 0:12:41.836 --> 0:12:49.236 Because it was so different and so urgent and so important. 0:12:49.436 --> 0:12:57.236 It was not an incremental improvement over existing technologies. This 0:12:57.436 --> 0:13:03.076 was fundamental. This was a game change. I mean, we 0:13:03.156 --> 0:13:07.556 all talk about game changes in innovation, but here there 0:13:07.676 --> 0:13:11.876 was a true game change. And yeah, you're right. I've 0:13:11.996 --> 0:13:16.796 been doing this job of looking at innovations for fifteen 0:13:16.876 --> 0:13:20.796 or twenty years and people often said, well, one day 0:13:20.836 --> 0:13:23.116 you're going to see this one thing, you know, And 0:13:23.196 --> 0:13:26.116 I love my job. I get to see different things 0:13:26.156 --> 0:13:29.236 all the time, and it's fantastic, all this innovation, all 0:13:29.276 --> 0:13:33.116 these amazing ideas, and I get to be part of 0:13:33.316 --> 0:13:41.236 all of them. But this couldn't wait, and it's it 0:13:41.396 --> 0:13:43.996 just grabbed me. It grabbed me, and it was clear 0:13:44.076 --> 0:13:47.116 from the moment I saw that I had to do it. 0:13:47.276 --> 0:13:49.716 Let's talk about let's talk about the b industry for 0:13:49.756 --> 0:13:54.556 a moment. Let's just do that. I know almonds are 0:13:54.556 --> 0:13:56.196 a big deal, but I want to even start zoomed 0:13:56.196 --> 0:13:58.476 out a little bit more. So. There was this moment 0:13:59.396 --> 0:14:02.916 some years ago when everybody was talking about colony collapse 0:14:02.996 --> 0:14:06.076 and there was a certainly alarming, I don't know whether 0:14:06.116 --> 0:14:09.356 it was alarmist kind of discourse about oh my god, 0:14:09.396 --> 0:14:12.196 bees are gonna go away, and then we're gonna be 0:14:12.196 --> 0:14:14.916 screwed because we won't be able to grow food anymore. Plainly, 0:14:14.996 --> 0:14:18.116 that didn't happen, right, Like what First of all, what 0:14:18.356 --> 0:14:19.716 was the deal with that? And what happened? 0:14:20.516 --> 0:14:26.756 So we lose about on average forty to sixty percent 0:14:26.836 --> 0:14:28.796 of hives every year, and. 0:14:28.756 --> 0:14:32.396 It's it's has proved sustainable just because people are able 0:14:32.436 --> 0:14:34.436 to create new colonies constantly. 0:14:35.156 --> 0:14:40.556 However, it gets more and more expensive Okay, the labor costs, 0:14:40.756 --> 0:14:48.156 the restoring the colonies just it's it's pushing, it's really 0:14:48.196 --> 0:14:51.196 putting a strain on beekeepers. 0:14:51.316 --> 0:14:54.436 Okay, the worst case scenario did not come to pass, 0:14:54.676 --> 0:14:58.236 but we're still losing lots of colonies every year, far 0:14:58.276 --> 0:15:02.116 more than the historical more. That's the state of play now. 0:15:02.156 --> 0:15:07.156 On the sort of be pollination industry side, on the demand, like, 0:15:07.516 --> 0:15:10.036 what is the market for honeybees? Who is who is 0:15:10.076 --> 0:15:14.716 paying beekeepers to bring their hives to the fields every year? 0:15:14.756 --> 0:15:16.756 What's that market look like in the in the US, 0:15:16.796 --> 0:15:17.876 in North America. 0:15:18.276 --> 0:15:21.796 Well, eighty percent of the world almonds come from California. 0:15:22.916 --> 0:15:28.476 So in almonds are just a whether it's through almond 0:15:28.476 --> 0:15:31.556 milk or in Massaban. 0:15:33.196 --> 0:15:35.036 From my point of view, kind of a niche youth 0:15:35.156 --> 0:15:37.276 but go crazy, yes. 0:15:38.116 --> 0:15:43.676 But apparently almonds, you know, used around the world, and 0:15:43.996 --> 0:15:47.876 they don't grow without Without honeypots, there would not be 0:15:48.036 --> 0:15:54.276 a single almond. So California brings in on large semi 0:15:54.396 --> 0:16:01.716 trucks several million hives every year from across the country 0:16:01.756 --> 0:16:05.036 to pollinate for six weeks. They're put into the almond 0:16:05.116 --> 0:16:10.676 orchards and do their thing, and so you have it 0:16:10.756 --> 0:16:13.076 is like it's like a big you know, airport, like 0:16:13.396 --> 0:16:16.716 where many you know, bees mingle and mix and they 0:16:17.036 --> 0:16:21.276 you know, they spread diseases and they and they spread diseases, 0:16:21.876 --> 0:16:25.756 you know, not among themselves, but also to other insects. 0:16:26.076 --> 0:16:30.716 After the islands, they then go to Washington's for the apples, 0:16:31.516 --> 0:16:34.956 then to the pumpkins, and over to Maine for the blueberries. 0:16:35.236 --> 0:16:39.556 They go off and on the semi trucks and are 0:16:39.596 --> 0:16:43.236 shipped across during the pollination season until they end up 0:16:43.356 --> 0:16:47.196 in the center of the country or in the you know, 0:16:47.276 --> 0:16:51.396 like the Midwest, where they then start honey production. Interesting, 0:16:51.396 --> 0:16:55.676 so once the pollination season is over, the honey production starts, 0:16:55.716 --> 0:16:57.196 and that's the food industry. 0:16:58.396 --> 0:17:02.236 And so it's the same colony like traveling around the country, 0:17:02.276 --> 0:17:07.116 presumably multiple generations of bees the same colony. And as 0:17:07.116 --> 0:17:11.076 it's sort of an endless loop, it's like a traveling 0:17:11.836 --> 0:17:14.636 it's like being on the road like rock stars or 0:17:14.676 --> 0:17:15.556 a circus. 0:17:15.236 --> 0:17:19.436 Or something that's exactly right. So it gets kicked off. 0:17:19.596 --> 0:17:23.476 The season gets kicked off in February in California with 0:17:23.596 --> 0:17:27.316 the almonds, and then they just travel around and it 0:17:27.516 --> 0:17:32.516 ends in October when they're ready for their winter hibernation 0:17:32.836 --> 0:17:36.916 and get this stay either go into cold storage where 0:17:36.956 --> 0:17:41.276 it's big warehouses, and then all starts over again. 0:17:43.836 --> 0:17:46.796 Go back back to California for the almonds. Okay, so 0:17:46.876 --> 0:17:49.756 that is the context as far as bees go or 0:17:49.796 --> 0:17:53.196 bees in the United States's let's go back to you 0:17:53.276 --> 0:17:56.756 and dhali all starting the company. You meet her, You 0:17:56.796 --> 0:18:00.156 guys decide to turn this basic research she's done into 0:18:00.276 --> 0:18:03.236 a company into a real thing. Like what's the state 0:18:03.276 --> 0:18:05.636 of play? What are things like when you start the company? 0:18:06.276 --> 0:18:09.836 So yeah, so her lab was closed out. She was 0:18:09.876 --> 0:18:13.156 on her way to accept a position or had accepted 0:18:13.156 --> 0:18:16.036 a position in Austria at the university, so there was 0:18:16.116 --> 0:18:19.636 no lap. There was a pending patent application that the 0:18:19.716 --> 0:18:23.836 university had filed, and that was it. And I had 0:18:23.916 --> 0:18:25.076 her brain, and. 0:18:26.556 --> 0:18:29.396 You had her brain and a pending patent. That was the. 0:18:29.396 --> 0:18:37.316 Company exactly right. And so we petitioned the university to 0:18:37.596 --> 0:18:41.196 give us to licensees the technology so that we could 0:18:40.916 --> 0:18:45.196 find found a company around it and also start raising 0:18:45.276 --> 0:18:50.356 money to finance this endeavor. And then we had to 0:18:50.756 --> 0:18:59.076 develop a regulatory path for getting something like this approved. Now, 0:18:59.116 --> 0:19:01.996 if this was a chicken vaccine or a human vaccine 0:19:02.156 --> 0:19:06.796 or a dog vaccine. We would know what the regulatory 0:19:06.836 --> 0:19:09.916 path would be, we'd know how many animals we'd need, 0:19:10.076 --> 0:19:14.276 we'd know how to manufacture it. We know everything has 0:19:14.316 --> 0:19:15.236 been done before one. 0:19:15.236 --> 0:19:18.636 Hundred and fifty years, right, like Pasteur made a chicken 0:19:18.756 --> 0:19:21.876 vaccine and a dog vaccine before he made a human vaccine. 0:19:22.196 --> 0:19:26.196 Yeah, so he and none of this existed. There was 0:19:26.356 --> 0:19:28.996 no regulatory framework. 0:19:29.116 --> 0:19:31.796 Nobody ever made a vaccine for an insect. 0:19:31.396 --> 0:19:33.516 Before it had ever done this before. 0:19:33.636 --> 0:19:35.116 So tell me about the disease that you want to 0:19:35.236 --> 0:19:36.636 vaccinate against. 0:19:36.876 --> 0:19:38.676 It's called American fowl root. 0:19:38.596 --> 0:19:40.476 An fowl brood. 0:19:40.676 --> 0:19:45.036 Our root, and contrary to its name, it actually exists 0:19:45.076 --> 0:19:50.996 in every country around the world, and it is very contagious. 0:19:50.636 --> 0:19:55.636 It's like anthrax for bees. So a few spores in 0:19:55.716 --> 0:20:00.756 a hive are sufficient to wipe out your colony. Highly contagious, 0:20:01.156 --> 0:20:06.036 and if you do contract the disease, you have to 0:20:06.076 --> 0:20:11.556 pour gasoline over the colony and burn the hive, the colony, 0:20:11.756 --> 0:20:14.916 all your equipment, everything that came in touch with it, 0:20:14.956 --> 0:20:16.276 and buried under the ground. 0:20:16.596 --> 0:20:21.676 So it's like biblical that's like a biblical injunction, or 0:20:21.796 --> 0:20:23.476 is what all of the bees die. 0:20:23.396 --> 0:20:28.716 Basically everything dies and you e suit your equipment because 0:20:28.756 --> 0:20:33.036 everything that came in touch with this contaminated hive is 0:20:33.116 --> 0:20:37.556 now can pass on the disease to another hive. So 0:20:37.596 --> 0:20:40.716 it's and then and in some countries all the hives 0:20:40.796 --> 0:20:46.196 that were in a two mile radius have to be quarantined, 0:20:46.756 --> 0:20:50.796 so moving restrictions. You can't you know, you can't do 0:20:50.876 --> 0:20:53.956 anything with them anymore. So it affects your neighbor. It's 0:20:53.996 --> 0:20:58.316 also very costly. You know, the flowers don't wait if 0:20:58.356 --> 0:21:00.596 you need to make honey, if you need to pollinate, 0:21:00.636 --> 0:21:03.916 and the disease hits your neighbor and all of a sudden, 0:21:04.636 --> 0:21:08.716 you can't put your hives into the almonds or the pumpkins. 0:21:09.276 --> 0:21:15.716 You lose half of your annual income. And so it's 0:21:15.796 --> 0:21:20.476 just a really devastating disease. And DAYA had convincing data 0:21:20.516 --> 0:21:23.236 on it, so we said, okay, let's go after American 0:21:23.276 --> 0:21:26.636 fower root and see if we can tackle this as 0:21:26.756 --> 0:21:34.076 our first trial vaccine. And so we generated new data. 0:21:34.236 --> 0:21:37.476 We had our elite candidate for the vaccine, and we 0:21:37.556 --> 0:21:42.236 set up a meeting with the USDA to make our case, 0:21:42.276 --> 0:21:44.436 which was the first step that this is a vaccine 0:21:45.476 --> 0:21:48.796 and not something else, and that what we're doing is 0:21:48.916 --> 0:21:54.716 actually giving in a controlled way this dead pathogen and 0:21:55.836 --> 0:21:59.276 it activates the immune system and the animals are protected. 0:21:59.356 --> 0:22:01.596 Presumably when you're going to the USDA, the number of 0:22:01.596 --> 0:22:03.556 people who knows how to do is be vaccine trial 0:22:03.636 --> 0:22:06.636 is zero. Nobody's ever done it, always ever thought about 0:22:06.676 --> 0:22:09.316 it before as far as I know. So, like, you've 0:22:09.316 --> 0:22:12.236 got to actually make the vaccine right, So what is that? 0:22:13.036 --> 0:22:17.756 So you take your pathogen, okay, and you grow it 0:22:17.836 --> 0:22:20.636 up because it's a bacteria, it grows. 0:22:20.236 --> 0:22:22.876 In case this is the terrible American foul brood. You're 0:22:22.916 --> 0:22:25.796 growing American foul brood in the lab, no. 0:22:25.836 --> 0:22:31.196 Lamb, and then you you inactivate it. Okay, you kill 0:22:31.236 --> 0:22:34.076 it so it's dead, dead, and you make sure it's 0:22:34.196 --> 0:22:37.476 absolutely there's nothing in there that survived. 0:22:38.316 --> 0:22:41.316 Now you have the vaccine and you need to test it, right. 0:22:41.316 --> 0:22:43.756 You need to essentially do a clinical trial. But it's 0:22:43.796 --> 0:22:47.396 a clinical trial of bees to see if the vaccine 0:22:47.436 --> 0:22:49.836 works on them. And my understanding is you have to 0:22:49.836 --> 0:22:52.996 start by vaccinating the queen bee. And I'm curious just 0:22:53.436 --> 0:22:54.476 how that happens. 0:22:54.476 --> 0:22:58.996 How do you do that their queen produces queen breeders 0:22:59.036 --> 0:23:03.516 that make a queen, and then they the queen mates 0:23:03.876 --> 0:23:06.676 flies around in her amazing flight. Then they catch her 0:23:07.356 --> 0:23:10.716 and put her into little claps plastic cages. They're called 0:23:10.796 --> 0:23:16.476 queen cages, and with a few nurse bees. These are 0:23:16.516 --> 0:23:22.036 young bees they have just hatched, and those bees feed 0:23:22.916 --> 0:23:24.276 royal jelly to the queen. 0:23:24.436 --> 0:23:27.156 They're called nurse bes. 0:23:27.796 --> 0:23:30.436 And these nurse bees are in the cage with her, 0:23:31.236 --> 0:23:35.236 and in the cages of sugar paste, which is made 0:23:35.356 --> 0:23:39.596 of powdered sugar and corn syrup or powdered sugar and water, 0:23:39.956 --> 0:23:42.596 so different, but it's a it's a sugar paste. And 0:23:42.676 --> 0:23:46.676 we put our vaccine, which is a liquid formulation, into 0:23:46.796 --> 0:23:51.316 this sugar paste, and the nurse bees will eat it 0:23:52.756 --> 0:23:55.996 make royal jelly out of and the royal jelly now 0:23:56.196 --> 0:24:00.596 has pieces of the vaccine, and that's what they feed, Okay, 0:24:00.716 --> 0:24:02.956 because the queen doesn't like to eat herself. 0:24:03.076 --> 0:24:06.116 She needs to be fun, amazing like like a true queen. 0:24:06.996 --> 0:24:10.796 So so you give the vaccine plus sugar paste to 0:24:10.876 --> 0:24:14.356 those nurse bees. They eat it. They make royal jelly 0:24:14.396 --> 0:24:16.996 with vaccine in it for the queen. Then the queen 0:24:17.036 --> 0:24:20.236 eats that royal jelly, and then what happens. 0:24:21.076 --> 0:24:24.396 So we have like fifty queens sitting there. Some of 0:24:24.436 --> 0:24:28.796 them get vaccinated, others get not vaccinated. Research it doesn't 0:24:28.876 --> 0:24:29.596 know which. 0:24:29.356 --> 0:24:33.516 One randomize a good randomized blinded trial. 0:24:34.396 --> 0:24:38.316 We put them now out into real hives. 0:24:38.396 --> 0:24:40.756 Okay, out in the world. Out they're going to work. 0:24:41.436 --> 0:24:43.956