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Speaker 1: Get up, Get know boys, it's back and reoded all

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Speaker 1: in your mind. Yeah, and that deep throating. This is

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Speaker 1: for the streets, the reel, the railroading, the distant franchise,

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Speaker 1: the truth escape building. And they ain't know when we

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Speaker 1: speak the truth, so they quoted because we wrote it.

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Speaker 1: The North South East coat is the g b my

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Speaker 1: twa keeping your head bobbing. It ain't no stopping and

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Speaker 1: wants to be dropped head by then the system is

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Speaker 1: so corrupt they throw the rock out of their heads

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Speaker 1: and then blame it on us. Don't get it twisted

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Speaker 1: on code and me and danced for no furntament biscuits.

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Speaker 1: It's Willie d y'all scar faces in the building. Collectively

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Speaker 1: we are the ghetto Boys. Reloaded, Reloaded with another episode

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Speaker 1: of information and instructions to help you navigate through this wild, crazy,

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Speaker 1: beautiful world. In the studio Jamie Bird also moral support

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Speaker 1: Officer James. Yes, absolutely, man, it's a pleasure to have

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Speaker 1: y'all on the show. It's a pleasure to be here.

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Speaker 1: While you have been through a lot you've been through

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Speaker 1: a lot um. Yeah, it's been twenty four years since

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Speaker 1: your father was dragged to death by some white so

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Speaker 1: called superior supremacist. But I don't call him supremacist. I

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Speaker 1: call him a furious you know. But it's been twenty

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Speaker 1: four years. How was your relationship with your father and

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Speaker 1: can you explain who he was as a person. My

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Speaker 1: relationship when my father was Um, it was one of

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Speaker 1: those where he always caught me his baby girl, where

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Speaker 1: I never grew up. I was sixteen years old when

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Speaker 1: he was taken away from me, and UM, to him,

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Speaker 1: I was like a six year old I was. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't a teenager. Um, I'm a mother's I'm a mama's girl.

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Speaker 1: But we me and my dad was really close. Um.

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Speaker 1: He was very talented. Um, he could sing just about anything. Um.

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Speaker 1: He A lot of people say he sounds just like

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Speaker 1: Al Green. Um, he was very talented in music. He

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Speaker 1: could play so he was he he could sound just

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Speaker 1: like even if you don't know the words to the song,

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Speaker 1: Hey you you're gonna be like you know the words

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Speaker 1: of the song, because he could sound that will when

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Speaker 1: he sings. So very weirdy. He was like the clown

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Speaker 1: of the family, you know. Um, he wasn't a porting

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Speaker 1: into james Burg Junior showed up. Oh so he's that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so just imagine you know, um, our family reunions, the

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Speaker 1: ones that we've had since he's been gone, has has

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Speaker 1: been very mute. Everybody just you know, it's born to

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Speaker 1: say the least it really is is because he will

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Speaker 1: show up and he gonna play basketball. He's gonna be

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Speaker 1: out there with the kids. He's just gonna be the clown.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm. So yeah, that's him. Yeah. In the introduction,

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Speaker 1: I introduced James's officer, but also you know, your officer,

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Speaker 1: I am yourself and what you're talking with? How long

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Speaker 1: have you been on? Eleven years on the force? And

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Speaker 1: it just in my mind, I'm thinking she had to

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Speaker 1: become a cop because she wanted justice? Is that why

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Speaker 1: you pursued in law enforcement? Im Prior to this career,

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Speaker 1: I was a probation officer with Harris County Adult Probation

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Speaker 1: for two and a half years, and then I went

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Speaker 1: into education because as a child, you know, growing up

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Speaker 1: in Lufkin, Texas, Texas, do you know Wayne Rogers mm hmmm,

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Speaker 1: uh my cousin and not not not maybe my face,

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Speaker 1: it's not it's really not. Yeah. Um, you know I've

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Speaker 1: always been inspired by my teachers particularly my first grade teacher,

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Speaker 1: in my eighth grade teacher. So that was something that

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do, is be in education. But while

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Speaker 1: I was a first grade teacher for a number of

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Speaker 1: years here in Houston, it was always my dad's story

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Speaker 1: and UM, you know, this incident was always in my heart,

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Speaker 1: like I need to do more for my community. And yes,

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Speaker 1: I can teach all the little kids each one teacher one,

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Speaker 1: but I wanted to make a different impact. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to bring um somewhat of closure and justice to families

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Speaker 1: that you know, I felt like, you know, I was

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Speaker 1: brought to my family. Um. Even though I don't believe

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Speaker 1: in the death penalty, I feel like that's the easy

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Speaker 1: way out. M m Um. In my opinion, I believe

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Speaker 1: they all should have got life in prison with no

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Speaker 1: possibility of a role so they can sit in solidarity

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Speaker 1: and see and drive himself crazy hopefully. That's that's that

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Speaker 1: was my thought. UM. But I wanted to bring justice

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Speaker 1: to families, um, in some type of closure. Um. And

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Speaker 1: so that's why I joined the police department. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: in joining the police department. Before you joined, I mean

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Speaker 1: you you didn't really just take this lane down, you know,

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Speaker 1: you were angry. You were because I read an interview

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Speaker 1: that you did and you told the interviewer that you

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Speaker 1: wanted to drag them, you know, the same way. Absolutely. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: A lot of times black people don't sound like that.

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Speaker 1: They well before they even found out who did it.

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Speaker 1: I forgive him. Want your name. I don't know the name,

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Speaker 1: but I forgive him. I forgive you for you know what?

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Speaker 1: And I can say, like my family was was that

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Speaker 1: my my grandmother blessed her soul. She she was one

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Speaker 1: that wanted peace immediately, she wanted She forgave. UM my sister,

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Speaker 1: you know, she was twenty six or so, it was

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Speaker 1: twenty seven at the time, and she also forgave. And

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Speaker 1: she and my sister and I appeared on a number

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Speaker 1: of talk shows um instantly, and I remember we went

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Speaker 1: on the Mother Love Show Forgive and Forget. I'll remember that.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, what were here for? I don't forgive,

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Speaker 1: and I surely won't ever forget, right, you know, she

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Speaker 1: really wasn't she And I really didn't even understand the

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Speaker 1: whole point in that head you know the name of

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Speaker 1: her show, but that's really And I was like, I

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Speaker 1: don't forgive. And I had so much hate as a

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Speaker 1: sixteen year old, I had so much hate in my

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Speaker 1: heart really for many many years up until two thousand seven. Seen,

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Speaker 1: you had the right to have that. Hey they murdered

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Speaker 1: your father murdered. Yeah, yeah, you had every every right.

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Speaker 1: Can you uh rewind that and what was said? You

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Speaker 1: know what they said happened. Can you rewind that incident

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Speaker 1: and and go by, you know, step by step to

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Speaker 1: what they said that these uh how the right inferior

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Speaker 1: did to your father? Thanks Willie, because I don't want

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Speaker 1: to say nothing to me and I don't call them

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Speaker 1: their names at all. Um. On June seven, my dad

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Speaker 1: was leaving one of his friends Anniverse wedding anniversary party,

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Speaker 1: walking walking less than two miles from his destination. My

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Speaker 1: daddy walked everywhere. Everybody knew everybody nw James and looked

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Speaker 1: and he U, I'm sorry, everyone knew James and Jasper. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: I'm from three different towns, um and so he these

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Speaker 1: three individuals drove up to him. He didn't not to

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Speaker 1: my recollection because he knew one of them, some type

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Speaker 1: of relationship with one of them. No, and I can

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Speaker 1: I can tell you that my daddy didn't hang out

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Speaker 1: with those types of guys, to be honest. But no,

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Speaker 1: so he was walking home. Where did they come from? Like,

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Speaker 1: were they from Jasper or they were just passing through? No,

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Speaker 1: two of them were from Jasper and one was from

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Speaker 1: like one of the one of the little towns outside

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Speaker 1: of Jasper. And they were all three just recently released

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Speaker 1: from prison. So they were um prior to picking up

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Speaker 1: my dad. They were in an apartment UM party in

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Speaker 1: celebrating because this is an act that they was plotting

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Speaker 1: and they had planned and prison and yeah, they scot free.

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Speaker 1: How many years did they do and in prison prior

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Speaker 1: to Jim seven or No? No, I'm just saying what

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Speaker 1: for this incident? How many years did they do from killed?

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Speaker 1: One was executed and so one of them so was

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Speaker 1: out of jail with possibility up the road. You said

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Speaker 1: one of them was out of jail. No, No, they

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Speaker 1: were out on proct Oh I'm sorry, I'm dead. I'm

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Speaker 1: not I'm I got you mad too. So one of

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Speaker 1: them already dead, two of them already did. Did somebody

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Speaker 1: get killing prison? You would think, no, damn, go ahead, No,

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Speaker 1: So I ain't nobody to kill nobody. The state killed him.

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Speaker 1: That's the easy way out. Can you go see one

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Speaker 1: of them get the killed. I would love that. I

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Speaker 1: would love to go with you to me because they

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Speaker 1: had no remorse. Not that I don't think it would

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Speaker 1: have mattered, but they had no remorse. Let me go. Um,

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Speaker 1: and you know, to sit there and see someone just

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Speaker 1: sitting in a chair and just be put to sleep

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Speaker 1: like I don't I don't even want to look at

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Speaker 1: the face. I want to antagonize. I want to go.

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Speaker 1: They don't care. It would it would have been more

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Speaker 1: you know, detrimental to me and not you know, I

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Speaker 1: like to fucking throw ship in him like human feces.

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Speaker 1: But go ahead, I'm sorry. Your father is walking down

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Speaker 1: the street. So he's walking down the street, um, listen

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Speaker 1: to from and they picked him up, put him on

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Speaker 1: the back of a pickup truck. They took him to

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Speaker 1: what is Deep East Texas, which is called Hoof Creek.

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Speaker 1: Hoof Creek is a small community predominantly black. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: they already knew we're gonna take it come to the

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Speaker 1: black part of town. So it comes to Hoof Creek. Um,

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Speaker 1: a fight ensued. They from what investigators say, my dad,

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Speaker 1: you know, put up a good fight. For a very

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Speaker 1: long time. Um. And just to make sure we're clear.

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Speaker 1: When they picked him up and they put him on

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Speaker 1: the back of the truck, did he volunteerly get on

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Speaker 1: the back of the truck like this is for a rod?

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Speaker 1: They were he was forced on the back of the

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Speaker 1: truck or in the truck into the truck, Yeah, into

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Speaker 1: the truck and um, so they took him to Hoof

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Speaker 1: Creek a fighting suit. One of them, who is the

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Speaker 1: owner of the truck who got life in prison with

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Speaker 1: possibility to row. It was his vehicle. He said that

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Speaker 1: they didn't plan to kill an individual, They just wanted

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Speaker 1: to scare in g R. You just said, so that's

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Speaker 1: what happened. So it just kind of got out of

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Speaker 1: hand out there on his mouth. Yeah. Yeah. So after

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Speaker 1: the fight, they sprayed his face with black paint because

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Speaker 1: he was still he was he was still up, he

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Speaker 1: was still trying to live. Um. Then they then they

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Speaker 1: was like, okay, he doing the most, so they took him.

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Speaker 1: You know, of course he's he's getting blowing energy at

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Speaker 1: this point because the owner of the truck who got

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Speaker 1: life in prison ran because he said he got scared

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Speaker 1: and he supposedly Pete in his bridges because he couldn't

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Speaker 1: believe what was happening as uncivilized number three. So that's

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Speaker 1: when they had a chain in the back of the truck,

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Speaker 1: tied them to the back of the truck and they

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Speaker 1: drove him for over three miles down Hoof Creek. And

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Speaker 1: and let me include Hoof Creek is the community is

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Speaker 1: like a fifth ward if you just just give you

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Speaker 1: a picture of it. That's where my mom, my mom

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Speaker 1: is from Jasper as well. That's where she grew up

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Speaker 1: in Hoof Creep. She went the church there, went to

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Speaker 1: school there, lived there. My dad's body was dismembered and

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Speaker 1: decapitated throughout the community of Jazz of Creek um the

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Speaker 1: church where my mom's family went to church every Sunday

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Speaker 1: growing up. His head was in front of that church.

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Speaker 1: Part of his arms was in the grave site where

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Speaker 1: all of my mom's side family is buried. So how

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Speaker 1: can how can we go back there? And every year

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Speaker 1: in September, the first week in September, we have what

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Speaker 1: is called church homecoming. How do you how do you

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Speaker 1: how do you go back to where you grew up?

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Speaker 1: How do you visit your grand your grandmother and your

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Speaker 1: grandfather and your aunts and all these people. How do

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Speaker 1: you so, Jamie, take us through the day if you

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Speaker 1: don't mind when you found out, like what was your

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Speaker 1: day like? And then take us to the point to

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Speaker 1: where you got the news your dad. So the day

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Speaker 1: before June six, my mom, my sister, and myself was

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Speaker 1: in Jasper. We went to Jasper to my dad's niece,

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Speaker 1: which is my first cousin, her bridal shower. So we

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Speaker 1: were there like a family. You have a big family

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Speaker 1: on the birth side. So my dad, he didn't come

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Speaker 1: to the briddle shower. He showed up at my grandparents

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Speaker 1: home right after the bridle shower and we were getting ready,

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Speaker 1: my mom's sister now getting ready to head back to

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Speaker 1: Lufkin again, that's where I lived with my mom. He

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Speaker 1: got in a car. I'm in a back seat with

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Speaker 1: my dad. He got in a car and he wanted

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Speaker 1: us to go to his apartment. He wasn't ready for

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Speaker 1: us to leave. And he and my mom, although they

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Speaker 1: were divorced, they had a good relationship, a very friendly relationship.

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Speaker 1: So he was like, y'all come over, you know, see

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Speaker 1: my new apartment. And I'm a at y'all some steaks

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Speaker 1: and so I'm laughing because I'm like, dude, you don't

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Speaker 1: even cook, like really like you really trying. So he

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Speaker 1: just kept, you know, kept trying to get us to stay.

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Speaker 1: I had a party to go to. I'm sixteen, so

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm trying to get to this house party.

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Speaker 1: You need to get about this car. So he and

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Speaker 1: I kind of had some words, and I my last

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Speaker 1: words to my dad was, which I didn't know at

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Speaker 1: the time, was I hate you. I hate you because

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Speaker 1: again he's telling me, oh, little girl, you don't run nothing,

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Speaker 1: you know, all of this and that. And so we're

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Speaker 1: going back and forth and I'm like, man, just get

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Speaker 1: out the call. I got stuff to do, mom, let's go,

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Speaker 1: and he reached My dad was tall, lanky, long fingers.

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Speaker 1: He I never forget. He reached for the door handle

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Speaker 1: and opened the door, got out the car, and as

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Speaker 1: he was closing the door, he said, y'all be safe.

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Speaker 1: We're head back the love again. The next morning, my

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Speaker 1: mom cooking breakfast, my sister and not sitting at the table.

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Speaker 1: We're just talking about everything that happened the day before,

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Speaker 1: you know, just not that incident, just the function. And

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Speaker 1: we get a call my sister answers the phone and

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Speaker 1: my aunt says, hey, y'all get down here, get down

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Speaker 1: here now. And my sister was like, wow, what's going on?

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Speaker 1: We think is something happened to my grandparents? Um, she said,

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Speaker 1: James James been you know, killed? So ill I can

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Speaker 1: hear my sister say daddy, daddy, Oh, no, daddy, and

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Speaker 1: she drops the phone. So when she dropped the phone,

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Speaker 1: I could steer here. My aunt on the other on

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Speaker 1: the receiver saying, y'all, Harry up, get down here. She's

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Speaker 1: just screaming in the phone. We get the Jasper, which

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Speaker 1: is normally like a our drive from love Skin, but

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Speaker 1: it it probably took us about thirty minutes this day.

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Speaker 1: We get there, get to my grandparents home, there was

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Speaker 1: media galore, um lawing Wresman everywhere. Not to go too much,

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Speaker 1: you know, not to go too much into that day

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Speaker 1: of detail. But I was in Denia. I walked in

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Speaker 1: the house. I've seen all these people and I'm like, man,

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Speaker 1: what ain't nobody did nothing of my daddy because he

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Speaker 1: everybody knew him. So I was like, what can happen

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Speaker 1: in jass But where can he do? You know? So

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Speaker 1: as days and days go by, my family is preparing

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Speaker 1: for him the homegoing services, and everybody's crying, and my

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Speaker 1: cousin's kept coming up to me and they was like, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: you don't wanna know what happened to your daddy. I

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Speaker 1: was like, ain't nothing happened to him, because he coming back,

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Speaker 1: like he gonna show up at this house. And I

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Speaker 1: go and sit on my grandparents porch on there, they

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Speaker 1: had a bench and I'm looking out in the street

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Speaker 1: and I and I visualized I saw my daddy in

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Speaker 1: my mind. It was him, he walking. You know. My

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Speaker 1: daddy kept a cap on and he always wore a

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Speaker 1: button down shirts and they, you know, have it open,

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Speaker 1: and he's just walking. And I run to the end

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Speaker 1: of the driveway and I'm like, daddy, and then he disappeared.

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Speaker 1: That's when I knew. I said, I said, yeah, something mate.

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Speaker 1: Right that night, I was at my aunt's house and

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Speaker 1: I we was getting ready the next day was the funeral,

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Speaker 1: and I asked my cousin, I said, so what happened?

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Speaker 1: She was like, you really want to know, like you

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Speaker 1: read it, And I was like yeah, because I wasn't

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Speaker 1: gonna go to the funeral or anything like each day

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Speaker 1: I'm in denial. I'm I'm just watching everybody shuffle around,

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Speaker 1: and I'm the only one that's just like nonchalant. She

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Speaker 1: told me what half. She said, Well, uncle Burr was

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Speaker 1: walking home. She called the guy's name, who house he

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Speaker 1: was at, and um, three white supremacists picked him up

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Speaker 1: and took him to hoof Creak and they killed him.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, they killed him and she was

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Speaker 1: like yeah, and that's when she said they details And

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Speaker 1: I went because I don't show my emotions. So I

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Speaker 1: went in the restaurant and I sat on the toilet

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Speaker 1: and I just I just cried. But at that moment,

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Speaker 1: I didn't cry because of what happened to my dad.

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Speaker 1: I didn't cry. I cried because of our last interaction,

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Speaker 1: those last three words that I said to him. And

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Speaker 1: I was like like, no, I can't. I gotta some

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Speaker 1: kind of way fix this. I gotta apologize, I gotta

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Speaker 1: like the dragon didn't resonate in my spirit at that moment.

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Speaker 1: It was Wait, I told this man just a week

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Speaker 1: ago that I hate him, and this happened, and so

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Speaker 1: for for many, many many years, that's the guilt that

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Speaker 1: I held onto. I felt responsible. I felt that, you know, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I disrespected my dad for the very first

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Speaker 1: time in my life. And I'm like, and this is

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Speaker 1: what happened. So that I'm glad you answered that question

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Speaker 1: because I wanted to ask you that. Did you feel

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Speaker 1: like your anger was a result of the guilt that

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Speaker 1: you felt for speaking that word, speaking on his words? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: A great dealer, I couldn't you know. And even now,

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Speaker 1: like I watched what I say to people, how I

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Speaker 1: say things to people because because of that, that last interaction,

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Speaker 1: because you never know, you never know if it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be our last conversation. And so I no matter how

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Speaker 1: mad I get or what I'm upset about in my

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Speaker 1: you know, marriage, friendship, like whatever, I always try to

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Speaker 1: fIF I hang up the phone and I'm and I'll

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Speaker 1: be like, all right, what, I try to fix it.

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Speaker 1: So when you said I hate you, you were saying

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Speaker 1: that was the reactionary comment. You had a good relationship

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Speaker 1: with your I had a very good relationship. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: had a really good relationship. Um, Like I said, he

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Speaker 1: never allowed me to grow up in his mind. He

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Speaker 1: always kept me as this little girl. But even then,

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Speaker 1: like I'm like, I'm a whole teenager. I couldn't even

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Speaker 1: wear shorts unless they was to my knees or past

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Speaker 1: my knees. I couldn't have my arms out like that.

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Speaker 1: Ain't nothing wrong. I mean, my daughter, I understand, daughter,

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Speaker 1: I understand. But so, yeah, we had a very good

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Speaker 1: relationship my sister. Um, my sister is fifty one. She

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Speaker 1: spent the majority of her upbringing with my dad, so

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Speaker 1: she was closer to my dad. She was the daddy's girl.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mama's girl. And then I have a brother

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Speaker 1: as well. Um. Yeah, evote podcast will be right back

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Speaker 1: after the spreet. Now let's talk about Ross. Ross was

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00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 1: he was in support of this organization that was about

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Speaker 1: reconciliation for murderers who are on death row, and he

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00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 1: didn't he didn't want the guys to be murdered on

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Speaker 1: death row. He wanted them just to have a life sentence.

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Speaker 1: And so I heard you say that you felt the

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Speaker 1: same way you wanted to see them, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: because I believe you know, of course, not get out

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Speaker 1: in the free absolutely not. But like a shot in

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Speaker 1: the arm, what is that? I feel like you don't

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Speaker 1: you don't not so much of them. Learning from the incident.

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Speaker 1: I don't think Adam as as such will learn from

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Speaker 1: this because this is something that is I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's embedded in them, you know, it's it's a part

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Speaker 1: of them. Even to their death sentence, they did not apologize.

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00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: They had no remoise um, you know, and they said

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Speaker 1: ugly words to us on their last on their last

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Speaker 1: day that basically he get what he deserved. They said

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Speaker 1: that who you know, he was a laws he was

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Speaker 1: a monster. Yeah, uncivilized much exactly. Yeah. Do you feel like,

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Speaker 1: in your estimation, how much has changed since your your

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Speaker 1: father was murdered in terms of race relations and how

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Speaker 1: people especially like Landing in Texas. You know, I would

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Speaker 1: love to say that it's changed tremendously, but honestly, I

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Speaker 1: don't feel that. I don't feel like I feel like

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Speaker 1: we'll take one step forward and tense steps back pretty much.

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Speaker 1: That's the American way, bro. That is it's like, yes,

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Speaker 1: let's let's corral this family, let's you know, show them

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Speaker 1: that we're in support of you know, longest you know,

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Speaker 1: we were speaking peace. But it's like after everything is

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Speaker 1: said and done, it's like back to normal yea, and

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Speaker 1: like a wave a whole other family dealing with the

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00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 1: same thing, the same thing, and it may be in

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00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: a different way I see it it maybe it maybe

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Speaker 1: did you see the officer in Mississippi that was that

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Speaker 1: was just spewing out of the N word, like talking

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Speaker 1: about how many people to kill like that's that's that's,

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00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: that's who's in control of whether you uh uh die

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00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: that night I go home? Those people, you know, Yeah, slaves,

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00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: slave patrollers? What? What? What is slave patroller? Y'all? We

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00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: have it is and it's and it's a learned it's

385
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: learned behavior. It's a taught behavior by your parents. It's

386
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: about your your your grandmother and grandfather and mom and

387
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: dad and aunts and uncles. Although one of one of them,

388
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:40,479
Speaker 1: it's so hard not to um call them worst names

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Speaker 1: than you know, I just try to be civilized. But

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00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 1: um grandfather told us that he wasn't raised like that, right,

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Speaker 1: the one that has life in prison. Some of his

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00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: best friends are black. Right, So yeah sure, yeah, so

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00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: so Jamie, you you gotta masters, you gotta you gotta

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00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: masters of of of what? You have a masters of what?

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00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: And now you have a bachelor's from from tissue right

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00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: in administration of justice. And then at preview. You went

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00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: and got your MS in marriage and family right, masters science.

398
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: How much of pursuing those particular academics UH played in too?

399
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 1: You know how what you went through with your father

400
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 1: with the with the administration of justice. You know that's

401
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: because I was very instrumental in the passage of the

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00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: state hate crime UM the James Burg Jr. Hate Crime

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00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: Prevention Act in two thousand and one, and so that

404
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: was something that you know, I was like, I'm I'm

405
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna be very instrumental in this aspect of

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00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 1: the criminal justice system. UM. With human science. It had

407
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: When I was trying to decide I want to go

408
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: through counseling, you know, on the counseling side, UM, or

409
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: do I want to go through the marriage and family

410
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 1: therapy side, I looked at it more like my family,

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00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,239
Speaker 1: you know how you know, my family dynamics, UM, and

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00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: everything that looked good ain't always good. It ain't good

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00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: for you. And so with both of those UM, with

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00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: with with both of those kind of ideas and experiences

415
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: that I've gone through, I was like, Okay, how can

416
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: I connect the two? Because I had a great passion

417
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: UM for you know, just the family therapy part and

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00:27:55,400 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: UM one keeping families together and the dynamics family dynamics.

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Speaker 1: And I speak about that in my book Triumph of

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00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 1: a Tragedy about you know, family dynamics and dysfunctionality in

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00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: in the especially in the black families. UM. So that's

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00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 1: that's kind of why I went that route. How useful

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00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: all those learnings and teachings when you're out on the beat,

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00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: you know what it Coming in at almost thirty years

425
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: of age with HPD, I was like, gosh, I should

426
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: did this way when I was you know, was first

427
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: graduated from college. But I tell you my UM education

428
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: and my teach learning through UM both of my degrees.

429
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: It allowed me to really like meet these families where

430
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: they are. Like I understand when I go into Stirlingshire

431
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: apartments or Crofton apartments or city Gas apartments, I get it.

432
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: I understand. I understand even though some of the stuff

433
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: I wasn't UM, I didn't experience growing up, you know,

434
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: but going through those family therapy classes, I understand how

435
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,719
Speaker 1: to communicate with a lot of people. And I always

436
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: meet them word. I always say, you know, I'm gonna

437
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: meet you where you at. You know, I'm not gonna

438
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: use so much of the book teaching, but it allows

439
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: me to see the scope of things when when going

440
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: out into the community. Because and I tell people that

441
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: all the you know ones that only know hp D,

442
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: I just say, bless your heart, because I'm grateful for

443
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: my experiences with my you know, education, educational background in

444
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: my previous careers. It has allowed me to see things

445
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: at a young age that um, I probably would not

446
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: have seen or experience if I didn't go that route.

447
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: I think that would be a good mandatory course for

448
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:58,959
Speaker 1: all officers to take. Be like, if you don't understand

449
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: human nature, you don't understand how to communicate with human beings,

450
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: and they give you a gun and a badge and

451
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: the authority to affect people's lives, what are you think

452
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: you're gonna do with that? You know? And and and

453
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: James Office North, how how long have you been an officer? Years?

454
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: The thirteen years? Now? What's your education? Administration of justice?

455
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: From to Texas University? Okay, tis you tiss you take it?

456
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: Ain't no other tiss you by the way, Ain't no

457
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: other tiss you wear. That's the other one. But they're

458
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: perpetrated the front. But go ahead. My minor was psychology, Okay,

459
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: I worked in uh juvenile probation, I worked games, and

460
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: then I came old hp D. So that's pretty much

461
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: my story, going and raised here in Houston, Sunny Sound,

462
00:30:52,480 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: uh Texas, Sugar Valley to be exaction right there, yes, sir? Right,

463
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: So how did you guys meet? Um? So, I've got

464
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: a little promotion and moved up to public affairs and

465
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: my cubicle was like right here, and James was right there.

466
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 1: I had no idea that was James Burry David. I

467
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: didn't know until one day. We just kind of started

468
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: talking to each other. And when she told me that

469
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: who her dad was. I went home and they had

470
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: the Jash pro Texas. I think it's on Prime or Netflix,

471
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: and I saw, you know, I think Lucas the Dream

472
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: was in there. Man. I look, I don't cry what

473
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: it is, but I did that night. That's just something fair.

474
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry that you lost your dad that way, Jamie.

475
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: You know, I have five daughters and they need you

476
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: need your daddy. People talk about mothers, but you need

477
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,959
Speaker 1: your daddy. And I'm I really feel for you, and

478
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: I don't know why you're working. You should have been compensated.

479
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: I don't. I just don't understand. You guys didn't get

480
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: Um they didn't like issue a settlement and why not?

481
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: My god, did y'all pursue it? My my sister, um,

482
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: I was at college, so she looked into it. Um.

483
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: There was a lot of kind of saying, go back

484
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: to the family dysfunctionality. Um. So there was lots of

485
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: things coming in for us. Is it too late to

486
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: pursue it? It's never too late. Well, Benjamin Crump is

487
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: a personal friend of man mine too. I gonna get that.

488
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: If they got they got in being can get that money.

489
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: If they ain't got no money, they got something. Somebody

490
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: got something, somebody got something, whatever they got land, whatever

491
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: they got, pickup trump, yeah, something, whatever they got, give

492
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: it up, give it up, unbow on children, give it up,

493
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: give it up, give it up, shotgun whatever, wherever they got,

494
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: brand new sock saying drawing it all, Jamie, how do

495
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: you feel about people's reverence towards your dad? Because you know,

496
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: everybody I ever heard speak of James Bird, they understand

497
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: the tragedy, They understand the the impact has death had

498
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: on society and everybody. Uh, pretty much that I've spoken

499
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: to have pretty much the same reaction, like like, we

500
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: really really like can relate to your story, and we

501
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: feel like your story is our story because it really is,

502
00:33:54,240 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: it really isn't you know? Um, it's unfortunate that you know,

503
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: my dad had to be the victim that night, And

504
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: like I said, you know, and I didn't what I'm

505
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: about to say. I hadn't always felt this way. I

506
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: had through a whole lot of praying, a whole lot

507
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: of soul searching, but it had to be somebody's daddy HM.

508
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: So I said, why not, you know, accept this and

509
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: make the best of it, and keep his name and

510
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: his memory alive and and hopefully you know, the things

511
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: that you know, my family and I from my grandmother Hunts,

512
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,280
Speaker 1: and my sister and brother, the things that we've done,

513
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: you know, hopefully these things just won't go in vain. Yeah.

514
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 1: Did you also say there has to be somebody else's daughter?

515
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: M h. It's it's remarkable. How are you a navigating

516
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: through this? You know, like your story, like you got

517
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: a story like all on your own, you know, and

518
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:11,760
Speaker 1: it just seems like m hm um, it's like you said,

519
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 1: like if you know that didn't happen to your dad,

520
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: perhaps your life wouldn't be what it is like. You

521
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't have like a drive that you have the tenacity.

522
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: Maybe not, yeah, m hm. And you know, I just

523
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: I think about um that night they were they had planned.

524
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: This was all a planned act. And they said that

525
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: they were going to kill somebody. It was a random

526
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: It was gonna be somebody, somebody, a black person. Are

527
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: you what they said? How the hell was they gonna

528
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 1: do if somebody was Jewish? Now you're just gonna sit

529
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: around and ask which it was. Yeah, So it was all,

530
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: you know, planned, and and so I'm just like, you know,

531
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: it was gonna be somebody. Yeah, did you attend to trial?

532
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 1: I did. I attended the one in Brian College station. Yeah.

533
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: I couldn't stay couldn't stay in there but a second

534
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: because of course, any outcry, you know, we could have

535
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 1: just thrown the case out. So I didn't. I did,

536
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: And honestly, prior to that, I haven't. You know, I

537
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: grew up in lofkin Um, but I never really experienced

538
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: any any racial division, or I mean I knew of it.

539
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: You know, you watch movies and you hear stories of

540
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 1: my mom telling me things that happened in her upbringing

541
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: in the fifties. Never in a million years what I

542
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: have thought to me that it had happened, and then

543
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: to me at that to my family, and so I

544
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: was already checked out. My brother and I both you know,

545
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 1: my sister kept hope alive. She was She just the

546
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: sweetest thing. She's just always on a positive note. And man,

547
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: my brother was like, like, what we're here for? And

548
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: I remember when I when they were bringing out especially

549
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: the chain. When they brought out the chain, and I

550
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 1: grabbed my mouth because I already knew that, you know,

551
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: because you could see the rust and everything, and it

552
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: just I couldn't imagine my dad to being tied to

553
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: that exact chain. My brother got me up and carried

554
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 1: me out. Did they bring out any other They brought

555
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: out his shoes, his head, m hmm, a lot of

556
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: you know, the tool, the screwdriver that was found on

557
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: the scene with the name. Yeah. Yeah. So when at

558
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: any point that you guys fear for your life while

559
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: you were out there? Oh yes, m hm. Was there

560
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: anything that happened that was unusual that spooked you a little? No,

561
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 1: we had I mean, you know, the New Black Panthers

562
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 1: was out there. I mean, so we didn't really we

563
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: It was more so I guess traveling there. Not so

564
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: much there on the you know, on the premises of

565
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 1: the courthouse, but traveling there it was you know, it

566
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, we get pulled over. You know, what's

567
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: what they're gonna do because they're already mad that that

568
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 1: they were captured with. Yeah, local, Yeah, because if it

569
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: wasn't for the FBI. And I spoke yesterday UM at

570
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: the FBI conference about hate crime and extremism, and I

571
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: think the FBI UM Houston Field Office, because if it

572
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: was not for FBI coming in to Jasper, Texas, I

573
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 1: truly believe, I truly truly believe that it would have

574
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: been a cold case. Wow. Are there any names associated

575
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: with the FBI that was involved in the case that

576
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,919
Speaker 1: you can remember that you can speak on. Not necessarily,

577
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: but I do. I do want to come in the

578
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: all involved and making sure that those uncivilized MutS were

579
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: brought to justice. Everybody in law enforcement, you guys did

580
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 1: your job on that one. I mean they did, from

581
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: the judge to the juries, to the you know, to

582
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: the prosecutors, you know, to the the communities. You know,

583
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: everybody just kind of bonded, you know, and uh, you know,

584
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: even even the media did their job. Yeah, you know, everybody, everybody,

585
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: everybody did. It was That's how it's supposed to go

586
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: all the time. That's the way it's supposed to go.

587
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 1: When these uncivilized mutts prove that they cannot be among

588
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: the civilized, that's the way they need to be put down.

589
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: They need to be pursued, they need to be put down,

590
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: they need to be taken out of population. You know.

591
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 1: That's that's the way it goes. Now, when you got

592
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 1: the verdict, where were you were you in the room? No,

593
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: the first one or the which one? Okay, so the

594
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: first one, when the first one came, when you heard

595
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: about the verdict, where were you you were at home?

596
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: And at that point, okay, now that hope. And then

597
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: the second one comes in we got another uncivilized and

598
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: then the third one it was like it was it

599
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: was almost like, okay, do I be happy? Then he

600
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: got life in prison? But it's like, why do we

601
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 1: have to have possibility? Why that should have that part?

602
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: I should have never happened. It should not have ever had.

603
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: But perhaps now they could have gotten through that without

604
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: without him, because he giving him, because he was going

605
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: to talk, just to spout his life. He the Mudd

606
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: did not want to die. They cool killing, but they

607
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: can't take it, do you know? So he would have

608
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: accepted a life sentence without parole had they said this

609
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: is what it's gonna be. You're gonna talk, kill you too,

610
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: that's what would have happened. So um So I guess they,

611
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: you know, dropped the ball on that one. But you know,

612
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a big fight to keep

613
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: him locked up when he comes up for parole, you know.

614
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: And you know, even though seen a long way from now. Um,

615
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: I keep up with all the appeals and you know,

616
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: all the letters that he writes the parole board, and

617
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: he steady trying to this day. I get them all

618
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: he is. He is steady trying, you know. Honestly, I

619
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: try to just stay um. I don't want I try

620
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: to positive. But in today's world, especially political, like anything

621
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: can happen because the main people that's making these decisions

622
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: look just like them and feel just like them, and

623
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: they have the white cape one just like they do,

624
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: just not in front of the camels. Now, how do

625
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: you as a police officer avoid implicit bias when you

626
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: encounter a white suspect that, you know, considering what you

627
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: went through, you know what that's that's that's really easy.

628
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: And you know, and I think the department was um

629
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: a leary of that too, thinking, you know, especially when

630
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 1: I applied. They was like, Okay, how is she gonna?

631
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 1: I wasn't raised to hate or to dislike any race,

632
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: you know, I was not. Um. The entire race did

633
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 1: not kill my dad, So that was easy. Okay. Did

634
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: y'all hear that the entire race did not kill her dad?

635
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: So that means that you're holding the person who's responsible

636
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: for killing your dad, The people who is responsible for

637
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:16,959
Speaker 1: killing your dad accountable, they're being held accountable everybody else.

638
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 1: Each of them are standing on their own merit. Okay,

639
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: I got you. That's how I go. Okay, go ahead.

640
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: That's interesting because you know it's like, uh, when one

641
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: black person does something, people love to about it and

642
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: say that's he's representative of everybody and that one thing,

643
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 1: we're gonna go out and we're gonna make it, We're

644
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 1: gonna make life hard on all he did. But as

645
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: soon as one of them do something that's it was

646
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: a long wolf. It was an isolated incident. But but

647
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: it's worked. It's working according to the It's by design.

648
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: It's not accident by no means, it's by design. This

649
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: is all. This is by design. You gotta gotta gotta

650
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: got a black kid getting in trouble. He's a thug.

651
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 1: You know, I got a white kid get in trouble.

652
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 1: He's having some mental issues. Yeah, you know, I meant

653
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: Eastern getting trouble. He's a he's a terrorist. And and uh,

654
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: Kim Young Young, he getting in trouble. He's uh what

655
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: what did Trump called Kim saying? He called him? What

656
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: do you call him? Man? Damn it? What do you

657
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: calling calling rocket? Many? Oh my god? Will you are

658
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: funny as hell? Get a voice reloaded? Podcast will be

659
00:44:50,880 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: right back after the street. How do we fridge the

660
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: gap between law enforcement and the black community, specifically the

661
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: black community? I say, because I've worked seven years and

662
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: fifth ward. Um, and I chose that community because One,

663
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: I have family from Cindywood City gats you know, all

664
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: up and down Homestead. Um, I can relate. I didn't

665
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: grow up in a you know, in a in a

666
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: predominantly black neighborhood and love skin. But I understand the culture.

667
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 1: And it's to me when I drive up to these

668
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 1: apartments or you know, anybody's home, I just be me

669
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: and and to me, that's the best way you could be.

670
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 1: Just be you, because we can see. We know when

671
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 1: somebody trying to play us. We know when you're trying

672
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: to act like you something and that you're not. And

673
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:58,720
Speaker 1: I've always just been me. Whenever I pull up on anything,

674
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: I talked to people how I want to be treated,

675
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 1: and um, I've had to I mean people my mother's age.

676
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: I've had to cancel and I've had to sit there

677
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: and say, ma'am, you're on enough to be my mom.

678
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: Now you know better than that. Just be real with

679
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 1: them and and to me, that's the easiest way. I

680
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 1: sleep real good at night knowing that I kicked it

681
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: with my family today. And when you're frond to the area,

682
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: the area, will it? Did you learn you learn to

683
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: love your people? You speak the same language if you

684
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: If you don't, if you don't come from that neighborhood

685
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 1: and you're not a part of that, uh those people,

686
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,439
Speaker 1: then I don't understand why you're there. In the first place,

687
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: why are you here? I also won't use discretion if

688
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,720
Speaker 1: he's not fun that he don't Yeah, we don't speak

689
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: the same and you understand me. Well, let's let's let's

690
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 1: let's keep it a buck. White officers won't use discretion

691
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: because black officers know how to do that when they

692
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: work other neighborhoods. They know how to act professional. They

693
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: know how to not bust somebody in the back of

694
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: the head with a gun and talk crazy to people

695
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 1: and throw their kids on the concrete, slash the kids,

696
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: body slammed the children, beat up kids at schools. Black

697
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,879
Speaker 1: officers understand their duty, they understand what to do. They don't.

698
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:20,760
Speaker 1: That's why I'll see black officers working uh, predominantly white

699
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: neighborhoods and nothing. It's all the time. And they're not

700
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: shooting killing, they're not killing people. And the problem is

701
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: that these officers are not being held accountable. Those black

702
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 1: officers understand that if they do get an idea, crazy

703
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 1: idea to do something bad somebody, to violate somebody, they're

704
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: gonna be held accountable. They know that. That's the difference.

705
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: And but but and they don't, you know, and I'll

706
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: take a little bit further than that. White officers. Uh,

707
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 1: in general, it's one thing, but specifically, I'm talking about

708
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:01,240
Speaker 1: the ones who joined the force, the ones who joined

709
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: the force to hurt, harm, main, disrespect, violate. It's a

710
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: lot of them, It's a whole lot of them. Their

711
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: clans members, the members of the Proud Boys, the neo Nazis.

712
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: And they're being hired because of their affiliation. Because you

713
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: can't tell me they're not being high because of their affiliation,

714
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: because it's too pervasive, way too pervasive. Yeah, and you know,

715
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: and and but his thing, like I do know, My

716
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,879
Speaker 1: thing is this, man, I do know white cops who

717
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: are good dudes. I do know some good dudes. I

718
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: do know them personally. But I'm gonna tell you, I'm

719
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: gonna tell you that there is it is a specific

720
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: race of people who is killing everybody, violating and destroying people,

721
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 1: and that is white cops. It is predominantly majority white

722
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: cops who are murdering on people and killing people and

723
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 1: beating up people and planting drugs and dopeing for people.

724
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 1: I'm not slack people. You ain't got some black cops

725
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: that do it too, Because we got some dirty ones

726
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: to button. But by far, but by far and large,

727
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 1: those white cops out there that have that type of mentality. Uh,

728
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:27,280
Speaker 1: they they are pasting everybody, and and for Houston particular,

729
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: because I feel, you know, it starts with the leadership.

730
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: Everything starts. You know what your leadership is gonna tolerate.

731
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: And if you know that your chief, for your sister

732
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: chief or any of your above superiors, um, it's gonna

733
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: just pat you on a hand, or you know, it's

734
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: like yeah, let's let's let's do whatever we want to do.

735
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: But I can honestly say for our department, um, we

736
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: are held accountable. We are helding O. I've been here

737
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: through three different chiefs, and um, they we don't tolerate it.

738
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: But within the department or the white cops also being

739
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:15,240
Speaker 1: held accountable, I have seen them being held accountable. Absolutely, Yes,

740
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: without a doubt, we do not tolerate m Yeah. Well

741
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: my thing is that, like I do believe that law

742
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: enforcement is necessary. But you know, I want to make

743
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: it clear that I am not against police officers. I'm

744
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: against dirties police officers, bad corrupt police officers. Yeah, they

745
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: are uncivilized MutS And like the rest of uncivilized muchs

746
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: in society. You need to be put down straight up

747
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: the pink juice. Hey, you know, and I always say

748
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: we were on a recruiting band to you know, it's diversity.

749
00:50:57,920 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: You gotta go to these I go to you know,

750
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: Jack Yates and we're them and all these schools. You

751
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: gotta go and recruiting your neighborhood to diversify the department.

752
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: That's where the change is gonna start. How do you

753
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 1: really we hear people say that we're here, officers say that.

754
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: But what can be done to actually have a a

755
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:28,720
Speaker 1: solid I guess um, some type of solid movement to recreate,

756
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: to recruit, just like they recruit for the army and navy,

757
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 1: the our force Marines. Get people to understand Black people

758
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: to understand that we do have to become police officers.

759
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: And as we become police officers, we move up in

760
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 1: the ranks and now we get police chiefs, and we

761
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: get commanders and we get shares that and that's how

762
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: we are able to police ourselves. Your partner with these

763
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 1: local churches, get with these and that's what we do

764
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 1: is our Afro American Police Officers League are Black Union

765
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 1: a pole. We go to. We partner with these churches

766
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: in the community and we hold a Saturday form, you know,

767
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: our panel discussion. We answer these questions and we let

768
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: them know, like, hey, we all y'all look like us.

769
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: Tell me why you don't want to be able. What's

770
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: stopping you from being a police officer? Oh? Because my

771
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 1: uncle say, well, I've been not coming this house being

772
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: a pop Okay, but why besides that, like you have to,

773
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: you have to go out to you in your community.

774
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: You need to make the change because if we always

775
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: you know, and and I feel like in a black community,

776
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: we discourage our own kids from being a part because

777
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 1: you know, again because of what they see on television.

778
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: But how are we gonna make the change if they're

779
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 1: not a part of it. If to give you an example,

780
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: the cops in New York, the Irish cops that are

781
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 1: in New York at one point and the Irish and

782
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: the Italians were treated like second class citizens in New York.

783
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 1: They were getting beat up, and they were getting beat up,

784
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: they were getting murdered. They were some to society, to

785
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 1: New York society. They became police officers and now they

786
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: run it. Unfortunately, they're doing to us what was done

787
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:31,760
Speaker 1: to them, and that's where oftentimes power corrupts, absolute power

788
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 1: and corrupts absolutely so. But at the same time, it's

789
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 1: very difficult to change anything unless you are in the game,

790
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 1: like it's very difficult to score if you're not shooting

791
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 1: the ball. I think I think the police agencies, it

792
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: starts at the interview process, when you're interviewing for police,

793
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: position of police or could dad. It's up to the

794
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 1: people who are in to viewing these people to make

795
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 1: sure and screen them that they're qualified to be I

796
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 1: think their families should be screened also, and they do.

797
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: They do well not screen fan but you know, of

798
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 1: course they they have to put their families information background check.

799
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: But you know we we do the backgrounds even with

800
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 1: you know this whole you know, open carry, and you

801
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 1: know you gotta go through all this stuff. It's like

802
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: you can do all the bad. You may not be

803
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 1: this bad person on paper, but if your heart is evil,

804
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: you may just got away with stuff you must just

805
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 1: probably just didn't get caught. You got counted into the

806
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 1: diversion program and got it wiped off your records, so

807
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 1: nobody knows and you're sitting you are judge this open

808
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 1: carrying judge that's opening has open carry opened up as it?

809
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: Is it more crime now with open carry? Or is

810
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 1: it the same or is it less? I believe it's more.

811
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: It is definitely m M. It seems like to me

812
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: it's always gonna be just more crime just because the

813
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: way America is designed, America is designed to be criminalized.

814
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 1: They're dropping the guns and the drugs here. I think

815
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 1: that's what it is, like rifles. How hard is it

816
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: for you guys, uh who want to be a good cop?

817
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 1: How hard is it to work amongst your peers? It's

818
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:39,799
Speaker 1: not hard? You you so? Um, it's like this. You

819
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: put yourself around the officers that are like yourself. So

820
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 1: you have different groups of officers. So if you have

821
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 1: if you're even temperate, if you have a good spirit

822
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 1: where you want to help people, their officers that's just

823
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: like you, and they got the other ones. So you

824
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,959
Speaker 1: just stay away from those from from those. How frustrating though,

825
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 1: is it to be a police officer and have to

826
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 1: deal with the public's uh frustration and the public criticism

827
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 1: of police officers who are bad. Well, I'm I'm gonna

828
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 1: say this, and to answer your question with that, when

829
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 1: George Floyd was killed. UM, and on June seven. We

830
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 1: all know what that day is. So you know, we're Houston,

831
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: is you know, with the protests and everything that was

832
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 1: going on. It was still going on on June seven,

833
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 1: and we had to get called into work. We was

834
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 1: working around clock and I was sitting at my cubicle

835
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,360
Speaker 1: and no, you know, I'm very private with who I am,

836
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: and you know, at work, everybody don't need to know.

837
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: I don't walk around with a with a sign saying

838
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: who I am or who my dad was, UM, for

839
00:56:56,280 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 1: safety reasons. However, I'm having moment on this day because

840
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:08,800
Speaker 1: I got this badge around my neck and this black

841
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 1: man just got killed by some officers who are supposed

842
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: to be serving and protecting the community. I had a

843
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: very hard time going out in the community that day.

844
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: I did, I said in my desk and I and

845
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 1: I just was like what do I do? I looked

846
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 1: at my badge and I was like, like, how do

847
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 1: I continue to be a police officer when police officers

848
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: are seemingly they're killing a black man, which put me,

849
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: which put my dad's face in a picture of you know,

850
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 1: the George Floyd. That's all I could see it was

851
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: it was a different crime, but it was the same

852
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 1: crime in my eyes. That was very hard for me.

853
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 1: And so, you know, out of all the things that

854
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: has happened um between you know, the police and the community,

855
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: I believe you know, that incident too told on me

856
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 1: and it was very hard to wear the badge and

857
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 1: I had to I had to just get it together

858
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: and remember my why and remember the reason why I

859
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 1: started wearing a badge in the beginning. Yeah, you have

860
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 1: to remember that. You have to remember that why. You're

861
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 1: going to be challenged. Anybody that's trying to do something great.

862
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 1: If you're trying to do something that's against the odds,

863
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 1: you're trying to walk that path less travel, you're going

864
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 1: against the grain, You're gonna be challenged. Your return to

865
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 1: be tested, and you have to have you know, that

866
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: thing about you, that thing is that makes you keep going.

867
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 1: It's okay to pause because we're human. It's okay to

868
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 1: positive reflect and even and even consider quitting, you know, consider.

869
00:58:56,000 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 1: You know, but you muster up to Carey, you said, yeah,

870
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it anyway, because you know, I thought

871
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 1: about my black brother, my black two nephews, you know,

872
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 1: you think about that. And I'm sitting here like like

873
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 1: like I'm about to go out here to this march,

874
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 1: and do I be on this side because I'm with

875
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 1: my people, you know, I feel this, I feel they hurt,

876
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 1: their their pain or do I'm you know, what do

877
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 1: I do? And I just and I went out um

878
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 1: at the time, you know, Chief Sinner was there and

879
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: you know, we went out together, and he looked at me.

880
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 1: I looked at him and he was like, you good.

881
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm good. Yeah, I can do this job

882
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 1: and I can you know, put my feelings aside, but

883
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: I feel what they're feeling. Shuts out the chief fell chief,

884
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 1: and we feel your feel your pains. We we we

885
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 1: identify man. We we we love your family. Tell your

886
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 1: sisters and brothers. You know. Yeah, definitely appreciate you guys

887
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 1: coming out and sharing some some some some history, some

888
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 1: knowledge and dropping some wisdom owners, especially when it's coming

889
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 1: you know, to to dealing with the neighborhoods, bridging that

890
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 1: gap between the police in the neighborhood, you know, recruiting

891
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: more of us, recruiting more people that look like us

892
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: to police us. Because like I say, if you don't

893
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 1: share any interests in these people that you're policing, and

894
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: why are you here anyway. We love y'all for coming out. Yeah,

895
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 1: no doubt. We love y'all for coming out. We appreciate y'all.

896
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 1: And if you have a nonprofit or or a page

897
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 1: set up that you want people to tap into, you

898
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 1: can go ahead and drop that information now, both to y'all. Okay, well,

899
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 1: I do have my book, Triumph Over Tragedy. It is

900
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 1: on Amazon. I'm in the process of getting my web

901
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: page um developed at this moment. It's on Amazon. Um,

902
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 1: Jamie A. B. Quin It's my Instagram A Queen Jami

903
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 1: A by Queen j A M I E A B Queen. Cool,

904
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 1: you got something, um, So, I'm James Turnard. You can

905
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: just look me up on YouTube. Yeah, but I know

906
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 1: you do a lot of stuff for the kids for

907
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 1: your interviews interview with you. So yeah, we did an

908
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 1: interview together and they can just put intend yeah h

909
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 1: P D HP D tenor and they can see the

910
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 1: interview that he didn't see that man, because you just

911
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 1: said something about it. Man. Did you did you mention Michel? No?

912
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:38,280
Speaker 1: I did, I did. I didn't sit down over yeah,

913
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 1: it ain't over. Sit down down. I was gonna tell

914
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 1: you something real quick if I couldn't this. This is

915
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 1: what I mean by you need good officers and we

916
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 1: have a purpose. When I was a rookie, that was

917
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 1: a sergeant who asked her for a police officer checked

918
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: by with a traffic book checked by the scene. African

919
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 1: American woman with her three children. She had three warrants.

920
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: So officers can use the screttion and we can just

921
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 1: write write a ticket, or we can write a warrant.

922
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 1: Said he could it done, but he went to the

923
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 1: next level. He said, look, ma'am, can you pay for

924
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 1: the tickets? The tickets would probably be level and twells.

925
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 1: Of course she couldn't pay for it, and a raggedy

926
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 1: beat up under cord paper tags. He knows that she

927
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 1: didn't have the money. Man, I'm gonna have to go

928
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 1: ahead and call CPS. Gold On, hold on, hold on,

929
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 1: I said, Sorge. Please, you know I'm a rookie, so

930
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:33,160
Speaker 1: I'm putting myself out there. I said, Sorge, please, don't

931
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 1: you know well what you want me to do? So

932
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 1: he asked, you is the grandmother? Later the grandmother came.

933
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 1: He ran her. She had warnings he was gonna take

934
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 1: both of them and have CPS coming with the kids.

935
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:51,200
Speaker 1: But this is where we come in. I said, Sorge

936
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 1: that those her babies, please, please don't do that, and

937
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 1: he wanted to hit and let it go. That's why

938
01:02:57,560 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 1: we have to be on the force. What the hell

939
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,280
Speaker 1: did he run the grandmother any damn? Why you know

940
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. That was the story. And as a rookie, yeah,

941
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 1: you see this is this is because God put his

942
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 1: people everywhere, so they have good people in policing. Everybody's

943
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 1: not saying they have some people who gonna help you

944
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 1: all the way. You understand that was you. He didn't

945
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 1: do nothing special. You can, but no, at the end

946
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 1: of the day, man, had he not been there, what

947
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:36,439
Speaker 1: would have happened? Will when I'm done, You're you're right.

948
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, the sarge had

949
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 1: The sarge had seniority, and he could have at any

950
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 1: point seeing I'm taking him anyway. So so at least

951
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 1: at that very moment, at that little window of opportunity,

952
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 1: God puts some on his heart. You have a little

953
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 1: heart he had and put some on his heart. Let

954
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: that let those women go. So uh, you know, I

955
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 1: guess you get a spec of credit for that. But

956
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: but thank you, absolutely, thank you for your your your

957
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 1: service man, and thank you also, Jay, thank you appreciate it.

958
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Much more talk. This episode was

959
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 1: produced by A King and brought to you by the

960
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 1: Black Effect Podcast Network at I Heart Radio