WEBVTT - Why are there so many twin films? 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:16.279 I'm Anny, I'm Noah, And this is no such thing. 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:19.280 The show where we settle our dumb arguments and yours 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.919 by actually doing the research. On today's episode, we're getting 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:25.640 to the bottom of the twin film phenomenon. 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:29.880 No, there's no no such thing. 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:31.639 No touch than. 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:34.800 Touch, thank. 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:37.800 Touch, thank. 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:40.640 Touch, thank you. 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:51.400 Okay, we're here to talk about twin films and why 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:55.560 they happen so frequently. But first, obviously we have to 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:59.000 know what a twin film is. So we're talking about 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:04.680 a pair of movies that have extraordinarily similar premises. Uh, 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:09.880 like that I like that pronunciation, and that release within 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:13.440 a year of each other. There there are some outliers 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:16.720 with this, like there are some twin films that come 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:17.919 out more than a year apart. 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:18.640 Uh. 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:20.480 And there are some outliers that have to do with 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:22.920 the plot as well, Like there are some movies that 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:25.360 seem similar at first, but then when you watch them, 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:27.959 they're not really that similar. We're dealing with that right 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.440 now with Gerrameal del Toros Frankenstein in this movie coming 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.240 out next year from Maggie Gillenhall. I think it's called 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:39.680 The Bride. Sometimes both of the twin films are popular, 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:42.720 like Finding Nemo and a Sharks Tale. 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:45.640 Oh yeah, well I forgot about the Sharks two. I 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:48.800 was defining Nemo home, so we didn't. We didn't watch Sharks. 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:52.720 Finding Nemo was definitely I think the more popular one. Yeah, 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.440 you know was a classic, like Substitute Teacher. 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:00.480 Yeah, that's like I remember renting that. I think renting 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:01.480 the DVD or something. 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:03.640 Yeah, you weren't going to theater that, you know, Finding 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:04.680 Nemo we had the tape. 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:05.320 Yeah, yeah. 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.080 And Will Smith delivers a masterclass in Shark Tale. 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:14.000 And my man's psyched has just begged me not to 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:14.840 myrtalize all. 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:16.480 Y'all up in here right now. 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.880 I might listen to him, but I might not. 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:23.400 And that depends on individual behavior of all the individuals 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:25.440 in here individually. 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:28.480 In other instances, one twin film is just way more 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:30.519 popular than the other one to the to the point 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.280 where you might not have even heard of the other one. 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:35.840 So one example is Madagascar. We all know and love 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:43.240 ye I'm I'm movement movement, movement, movement, not knocked up. 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:46.440 There was a Disney movie that came out the same 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:51.160 year called The Wild, which was the same plot. Animals 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.480 from the Central Park zoo end up in Africa. Oh, 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.120 and it had like I had, like a real cast 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.160 wild Have you ever heard of this movie? No? Oh, 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:01.880 I need to see it. Let me see some imagery. 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.679 It just it looks like a generic, like a less 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:09.239 stylized version of Madagascar. But in the cast we had 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:12.920 Key for Sutherland, Eddie Lizard, Richard Kind was in there, 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:16.839 William Shatner. And it's like the same animals too. There's 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:17.400 a graft. 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:18.240 Who's the zebra? 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:22.200 There's no zebra? Okay, there's a draft in this one. Anyway, 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:26.280 I thought that was interesting making a zoom movie, it 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:30.239 would have a draft in line. But of course, the 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:34.640 most referred to example of twin films is of course 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:39.320 Armageddon and Deep Impact. Uh, we're gonna save that one 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.120 for later when we talked to the what went wrong folks, 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:45.880 But from my recollection, I think like Armageddon was like 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:48.480 the big, dumb, loud one, and Deep Impact was supposed 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.880 to be the higher brow, smartly written one. We'll see 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:54.200 if that holds up. But before we get into like 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:58.640 why exactly twin films happened so regularly with so much frequency, 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:00.600 what are some other ones that I'm missing? Like, what 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:02.280 are some big twin films. 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:08.000 There was the like rom coms of no Strings attached, 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:10.280 Oh yeah, and then friends with Benefits. 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.400 I'm a doctor, I worked eighty hours a week. I 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:15.040 need someone who's going to be in my bed at 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.200 two am, who I don't have to eat breakfast with. 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:19.400 I'm emotionally unavailable. 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:20.479 I'm emotionally damaged. 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.160 You know what I'm saying, No emotions, just sux. 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.200 Those came out around the same time, around you know, 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.520 like friends who are love interests or artists. 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:37.040 You were the two Kutcher and uh who Natalie Portman 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.760 Natalie Portman, and then the other one was Myla Cunis 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:45.080 and Timberlake. And that's funny because Ashton Kutcher is married 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.200 to me Lacunas. They should have just had them in 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:47.840 the same movie. 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:49.640 Yeah. I don't know if they were married at the time. 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:51.279 I don't think they were, probably not, but they were 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:52.920 on that seventies show together, which is how. 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:59.400 They since then more than oh you're someone someone looked 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:01.840 this up, Jame not not now? 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:02.159 Yeah? 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:04.480 What are some other ones? Like one I remember is 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:06.880 Dante's Peak. Yeah, I was just thinking that in. 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:15.960 The tone of Dante's Peak, a volcano is turning nature into. 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:20.840 A nightmare, which was Pierce Brosnan like disaster movie that 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:24.360 takes place in the Pacific Northwest. You know, they're escaping 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:28.080 from a volcanic a volcanic eruption. And this was an 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:30.080 example of one that was way more popular than the 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.599 other one, I think because I hadn't even known about 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:36.200 this movie Volcano with Tommy Lee Jones in a. 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:41.440 City where anything can happen on April twenty fifth. 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:48.280 It will same year or within a year of each other, 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:52.480 and same exact plot. But just I had not heard 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:53.799 of that one. Have you guys heard of Volcano? 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:58.960 Yeah, but definitely Dante's peak was like always on, like yeah, TBS, yeah, 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:02.120 TVs like constantly. 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:06.520 Another classic one that's more recent is Olympus has Fallen, 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:08.120 White House Down. 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:11.280 Yeah, we're talking about the safety of the president of 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:12.360 the United States. 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:15.600 We're talking about all of them more than. 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:17.800 That, sir, Which is funny because they also both have 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.520 black presidents in them. Hey, what's funny? 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.320 We had run all right? People forget there's been one. 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:28.600 We did have one here. It made sense. Yes, I 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:30.720 think Morgan Freeman is the president in one of them, 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:34.240 and Jamie Fox is the president and I'm pretty sure 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:38.720 right whichever one say, yeah, that's crazy, that's my president 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:39.080 right there. 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:40.320 It's like he's young. 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:44.360 So Olympus has fallen? Is the Gerard Butler one, Yeah, okay? 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:46.719 And Channing Tatum's in White Houstone, I think, so White 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:50.800 House Down will be Channing Tatum and Jamie Fox. Is 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:53.040 Jamie Fox the president or is he just any president? 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:53.920 James Sawyer? 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:54.560 Oh wow? 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:59.400 And before any Olympus has fallen heads send me angry emails. 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.919 I should clear that Morgan Freeman's character is only technically 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:08.679 acting president. The elected president is Aaron Eckert. But of course, 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:13.320 there is one pair of twin films that the three 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:17.240 of us have spent a lot of time debating way back, 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:21.720 starting in twenty sixteen, and that is a Bugs Life 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:27.320 for the colony and for a press but everywhere versus Ants. 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.280 He's willing to live for the colony, to fight for 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:32.120 the colony, to die. 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:32.720 For the colony. 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:34.280 This guy's crazy. 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:34.920 Now. 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.160 The reason we've been debating this is that Noah and 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:43.920 I feel like Ants is the obvious better movie, and 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:48.360 Devin thinks that we're crazy, of course, and I actually 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.200 want to break the differences between these movies down for 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:55.800 the listeners, because I think understanding the differences between these 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.960 movies might actually be useful for us in terms of 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:01.800 trying to figure out why films happen in the first place. 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.160 So let's start with the plot. Both movies are about 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:08.680 ants that spark a revolution of sorts against their oppressors. 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:14.240 In a bug's life, the oppressors are grasshoppers, evil grasshoppers. 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.160 They're not really dynamic. They're just evil. They just come 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:19.760 and bully and eat everything. So where is it? 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:23.800 Where's my phone? 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:26.720 It's a little more interesting. 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.360 In Ants, the ants are in a war with these 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:32.920 termites that are encroaching on their territory. But the war 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:37.120 general for the ants is like sending the ants that 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:39.760 are loyal to the queen off to war on a 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:43.480 suicide mission so that he and the remaining ants can 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.280 enact at coup d'eta damite colonies. 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:49.800 Sir, that's suicide exactly. 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:54.880 You have the list I asked for, Yes, General, these 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.160 are the units loyal to the queen. 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:01.160 So, Devin, why don't you tell us a little bit 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:04.360 about why you're wrong to think that a bugs life 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:06.480 is better and more interesting than that? Plot. 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:09.000 Well, first of all, both of these are supposed to 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:09.680 be kids movies. 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:11.040 That's true allegedly. 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:17.560 Okay, uh so A Bugs Life is picture our universe. Basically, 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:19.640 A Bugs Life looks like I don't know if there 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:21.880 is some sort of like Easter Egg. It looks like 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:26.439 it's a toy story. Yeah, like that style, very similar style. 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:29.079 You zoom in on want to Andy's Toys in the 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:31.240 grass somewhere, and you saw A bug Life happening, You'd 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:35.599 like this makes sense. Yes, so toy story iconic, A 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:38.240 Bugs Life iconic. Okay, they live in the same world. 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:42.640 Just just remember that. The thing that I love about 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.760 A Bugs Life is it has so many memorable scenes. 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:48.480 We did it back to backwashing of A Bugs Life 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:51.319 and Ants. You know, I had not watched this film 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.160 since I don't know, well, I was a child. 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:56.280 A long time ago. 0:09:56.679 --> 0:10:04.000 That tracks and I had rememb scenes from A Bug's Life, 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.160 which is crazy all these years. It's not something that 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:09.720 really comes up, you know, in pop culture or anything 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:12.760 that you're like, you know, I'm not, And I was like, 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:16.080 oh my god. I remember the rain, specifically that rain 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:18.720 scene where the ants are running for their lives because 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:22.480 the rain drops are like, yes, and it is a 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.000 thing that, like, from my childhood to now, I thought 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:28.560 about and I didn't realize that I was thinking about 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:30.760 it because of A bugs lif When it rains and 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.600 I'm outside and I see bugs, I thought like, oh, shoot, 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.559 it's to go down. And then when I just watched 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:38.719 it more recently, it's like, oh, it's because of a 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:42.240 Bug's life. And that, I think is when you think 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:48.120 of childhood movies, those scenes that stay with you, that change. 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:49.160 The way you view the world. 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:57.920 Wow, okay, this is why we make films. And when 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:02.200 we watched ants if it felt like some weird Woody 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:09.200 Allen nightmare. Okay, yeah, well it's dark, it's very moody. 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.760 It's just like, I'm like, what, this is not for kids. 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:14.800 This feels like some adult was going through something and 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:16.719 they're forcing their kids to sit down and watch this. 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.480 It's like it feels like divorce dad energy. 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:24.120 A bugs Life is certainly more colorful and easier on 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:25.560 the eyes. And it's funny. 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.800 A Buzs Life is hilarious. Scene the scene, every line 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:31.920 is a joke. I'm watching ANTS, I'm like, what, nothing, 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:33.400 It really is not funny. 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.840 It's kind of depressing, and it's funny because there's an 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:38.280 there's PTSD. 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:41.160 It's that's it's funny. It's kind of cob you know, 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:44.480 it's it's funny that the Ants have trauma. 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:47.920 I'm sorry, I don't think trauma is funny, but you 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:50.640 know some of us, some of us, I guess. 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:54.400 So let's go cast for cast. Here. You got Kevin 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:57.280 Spacey obviously as the villain Hopper. 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:01.160 Playing the proper role. Yeah, Evan Spacey, the villain, a 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.839 bad guy playing exactly great casting if you think about it. 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.720 Yeah, but this was the way before he was They 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:09.400 knew there's something darkening. Yeah. 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:09.960 Uh. 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:12.480 Julia Luis Dreyfus plays Atta. 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:14.040 Yeah, love interest. 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.199 Hayden Penny Tier is a dot the I think the 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:22.559 Little Girl aunt Richard Kind. You've got Dennis Leary. So 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:25.200 you know, it's pretty stacked cast. But let's look at 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.080 Ants because Ants has some fucking hitters in the cast. 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:30.080 Woody Allen obviously. 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:32.720 Woody Allen, it's a voice. 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.800 Yeah, your boy, Kevin space no problem. 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:39.440 Okay, we don't need to go there. 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:44.160 Both films have problematic actors and memory. This is a wash. Yeah, 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:47.760 they cancel each other out. Gene Hackman is Mandible, who 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.840 I believe is like the War General r P. Sharon 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:55.360 Stone is Bala. You got Dan Ackroyd, You've got Danny Glover. 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:00.920 Jennifer Lopez plays ass Teca Celeste Stallone. I mean this 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.640 is nuts. Christopher Walking Jim Yeah, I'm gonna say that 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:07.439 the Ants cast edges out A Bugs Life cast in 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.000 terms of, you know, real hitters. 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:12.000 If you just want to put names on the board, sure, yeah, 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.599 what in the world? Okay, but can you name what 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:16.920 happened these people did in the movie? 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:17.880 Gene Hackman is Manda. 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:19.880 Jennifer Lopez was. 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.959 Well, you know that's true. I don't have a I 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:26.880 don't have an argument against that. Sly Stallone is in 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:28.679 there as a character that looks like him. 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.040 I remember this, and I believe Chris Walking too is 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.560 kind of Yeah, they do tell me that's what Sharks 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:37.160 did too, which I think all animated movies should do that. No, well, 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.000 could you talk a little bit about why you like 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.240 Ants the film better than A Bug's Life. 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.480 Yeah, I'm just I like more mature sorts of things. 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.040 I like a PG movie. 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:46.079 If I can get one, you know. 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.199 I like kind of edgy humor, like that, So, you know, 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:52.559 I was, you know, kind of refreshing myself on Ants, 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.960 and you know, it's it really is a proper war movie. 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.280 There's nods to Apocalypse now there's there was one scene 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.280 that really set up to me, especially on our rewatch, 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.640 was there's this huge, real pretty serious battle scene and 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.040 then the leader he's decapitated. 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:08.320 The second I remember this. 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:13.000 Don't make my mistake, don't follow it as your whole 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:21.240 life thinking for yourself anyway, the bodyless head is you know, 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.200 kind of giving his final words of like whoa this is? 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:24.080 Is wild? 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:25.080 That's a dark movie. 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.720 Yeah, it's just a little for me as an adult 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.920 watching this, not sharing it with kids, it's more interesting 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.360 to watch today. Oh grant, I didn't really watch Bugs 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:36.080 Life as a kid. I watched it, but it was 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:37.560 never like on rotation for. 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.400 Me for whatever reason. So it didn't imprint the way 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.560 where it's like these certain little scenes. 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.600 You didn't have a good watch I say that? Did 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:46.000 I say that? 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:50.040 I did not say that. I enjoyed watching both of them. 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:52.440 I like picking we're picking one. 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:53.320 That's the prompt. 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:54.760 I simply enjoy the. 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:58.880 More, And I like you had more fun watching Ants. 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.080 There's a little bit more of I guess they kind 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.800 of have different goals. And that's what's tough about this is, 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:07.120 despite the fact that they're twin films, they're not necessarily 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:09.440 one for want. They're not so easy to compare. And 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.840 I like the kind of ugly, garish art style of ANTS. Yeah, 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:14.080 they look like something to look at. 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.720 And I appreciate the kind of neurotic witticisms of you know, 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.120 the Woody Allen esque character. 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:20.640 Yeah. 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:24.240 I think here in New York the humor was really interesting. 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:26.920 But that's not to say I disliked A Bug's Life. 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:27.920 I mean, it's definitely I. 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.000 Know, I know you two didn't dislike it because y'all 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.440 were cracking up, gigglin the whole time. 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:39.160 Again, not much being said. You think about sitting with 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:41.800 when we're watching ANTS, taking notes. 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:43.000 I watched movies to be entertained. 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:46.360 Okay, you can do both ideally, you get both ideally. 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:48.320 Okay. 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.200 So now we know what a twin film is and 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:54.960 we've been through many, many examples. After the break, we're 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.600 gonna chat with the hosts of the What Went Wrong 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.920 podcast the show about the film and and see if 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.520 we can get their thoughts on why twin films happened 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:17.880 so regularly in the first place. All right, We're now 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.960 joined by Lizzie and Chris from the popular What Went 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.960 Wrong podcast. Thank you guys for joining us. Thank you 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:26.800 so much for having us. It's an honor to be here. 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:28.480 You guys are so much fancier than us. 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:38.560 You have mugste Yeah, yeah, we try, we try. 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.960 Before you guys joined us, we were talking about this 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.680 phenomenon of the twin films. We had just ended a 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:49.360 rigorous debate about whether A Bugs Life or Ants is 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:52.240 the better film. Noah and I are on the ants 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.160 on team Ants, and Devin is team of Bugs Life. 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.920 I'm just curious what your guys take. Are you have 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.360 a strong opinion you too. 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:05.199 With your Aunts defending I am I'm done. I'm very 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:07.679 interested to I can't wait to hear what your argument 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:11.040 was for both sides. But now I'm mad. 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.199 I would also lean a Bugs Life, although not as 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:20.760 hard as Lizzie. I appreciate as the manifestation of Jeffrey 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:25.600 Katzenberg in a movie, but I still prefer I think, overall, 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.159 a Bugs Life. But I have kids that age like 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:30.080 I would show my daughter a Bugs Life. I probably 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.240 wouldn't show her aunts At this point. 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:32.720 I agree with that. 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:39.680 It's an enjoyable film. It's so much fun, so memorable. Yeah, 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:40.760 and it feels like, you. 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.280 Know, I don't have to think of Alan marrying his 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.359 stepdaughter while I'm watching it, exactly. 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:48.320 It's you have to do you have to think about 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:49.000 Kevin Spacey. 0:17:57.280 --> 0:17:59.480 Yeah, I don't need Woody Allen as the romantic lead. 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:01.200 And you want to know, my biggest problem with Ants 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:03.320 was that I literally screamed at the TV when I 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:07.160 was rewatching it for this episode they're human teeth. It's 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:11.479 the most horrible, Yeah, says so creepy horrible when he's 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:13.680 chewing on the plastic. I was like, I'm this sit, 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:14.280 I'm done. 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:19.480 Yes, So Chris and Lizzie. When it comes to Ants 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:21.680 and A Bug's Life coming out at the same time, 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:26.480 is it true that there was an alleged intellectual property theft? 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:27.920 Can you tell us a little bit about that? 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.520 Well, my understanding is so development on A Bug's Life 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:41.000 began before development on Ants, and so John Lassiter was 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:43.439 the director of A Bug's Life, who was written by 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:46.440 Andrew Stanton. Joe Ranft, who actually does the voice of 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:50.440 Heimlich in the movie. Was co story creator with those two, 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.480 and this was a well known project within the animation community. 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:56.640 And I have a slightly different thesis as to why 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:01.000 these two movies are both around bugs. Lizz about Toy 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:03.280 Story on our podcast, and one of the reasons that 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:07.639 they chose toys was because highly reflective surfaces as a 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:10.360 texture are a lot easier to animate. At this point 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:14.560 in the technologies, like maturation process in the mid nineteen nineties, 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:17.200 it's really hard to do hair. This is why like Monsters, Inc. 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:19.680 And Shrek don't come until the early two thousands. A 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:21.719 bug's Life makes a lot of sense because, okay, well 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:25.440 we can animate bugs, right they have these they're exoskeletons, 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:28.959 they're shiny. This makes sense. Also, it's ants. We can 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:31.200 make one model and then we can clone it a 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.000 bunch of times, and it's like Andy and all his 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:37.840 friends at the birthday party and Toy Story. So the 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:43.680 allegations were that Lasseter and Katzenberg had more unfriendly terms. 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:49.399 Katzenberg acrimoniously left Disney. He felt he had been owed 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:54.240 a higher position by then CEO Michael Eisner. He was 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:58.120 looked over after Lizzie remind David Wells or Frank Wells. 0:19:58.160 --> 0:19:59.040 I can never remember. 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:00.879 Oh man, I want I say it's Frank Wells, but 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:03.000 let me double check. He's the he was the head 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:05.240 of Disney who I'm sure you guys know about this, 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:09.080 But he died unexpectedly in helicopter crash. 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:10.960 It's Frank Wells, so frankly. 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:15.200 And it's pretty wild because you know, we talked about 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.080 this in Toy Story, but this guy dies in a 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:20.720 helicopter crash. And then Jeffrey Katzenberg is like, oh, he's dead. 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:22.640 Is it my turn? Is it my turn? 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:22.840 Now? 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:26.840 What's up with the promotion? Let's get this going? 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:28.040 Oh my god. 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.120 Katzenberg leaves. He ends up suing Disney for an unpaid 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:33.680 bonus of well over one hundred million dollars. He also 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:36.359 was on the you know, Michael Ovitz, formerly of CAAA, 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:39.160 is coming in. It's a very messy time. DreamWorks gets built, 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:42.760 and obviously Pixar starts working with Disney for their distribution 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:45.320 of Toy Story and then A Bug's Life. And so 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:51.240 the accusation is that that Katzenberg stole the idea for 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.160 A Bug's Life or ants from a Bug's Life after 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:58.120 having soundboard conversations with Lassiter, who felt that he could 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:03.640 trust Katzenberg. On Katzenberg's side, my understanding is he has asserted, 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:06.440 although I've heard also that he has kind of admitted 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.520 as much that he may have taken this idea from Lassitter. 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:12.240 He has asserted that there was a pitch for a 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:15.960 movie called Army Ants back in nineteen eighty eight while 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:19.280