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Speaker 1: I'm Anny, I'm Noah, And this is no such thing.

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Speaker 1: The show where we settle our dumb arguments and yours

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Speaker 1: by actually doing the research. On today's episode, we're getting

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Speaker 1: to the bottom of the twin film phenomenon.

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Speaker 2: No, there's no no such thing.

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Speaker 1: No touch than.

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Speaker 3: Touch, thank.

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Speaker 1: Touch, thank.

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Speaker 4: Touch, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're here to talk about twin films and why

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Speaker 1: they happen so frequently. But first, obviously we have to

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Speaker 1: know what a twin film is. So we're talking about

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Speaker 1: a pair of movies that have extraordinarily similar premises. Uh,

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Speaker 1: like that I like that pronunciation, and that release within

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Speaker 1: a year of each other. There there are some outliers

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Speaker 1: with this, like there are some twin films that come

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Speaker 1: out more than a year apart.

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Speaker 5: Uh.

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Speaker 1: And there are some outliers that have to do with

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Speaker 1: the plot as well, Like there are some movies that

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Speaker 1: seem similar at first, but then when you watch them,

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Speaker 1: they're not really that similar. We're dealing with that right

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Speaker 1: now with Gerrameal del Toros Frankenstein in this movie coming

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Speaker 1: out next year from Maggie Gillenhall. I think it's called

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Speaker 1: The Bride. Sometimes both of the twin films are popular,

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Speaker 1: like Finding Nemo and a Sharks Tale.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, well I forgot about the Sharks two. I

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Speaker 6: was defining Nemo home, so we didn't. We didn't watch Sharks.

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Speaker 1: Finding Nemo was definitely I think the more popular one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know was a classic, like Substitute Teacher.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like I remember renting that. I think renting

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Speaker 3: the DVD or something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you weren't going to theater that, you know, Finding

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Speaker 1: Nemo we had the tape.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And Will Smith delivers a masterclass in Shark Tale.

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Speaker 6: And my man's psyched has just begged me not to

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Speaker 6: myrtalize all.

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Speaker 5: Y'all up in here right now.

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Speaker 2: I might listen to him, but I might not.

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Speaker 6: And that depends on individual behavior of all the individuals

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Speaker 6: in here individually.

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Speaker 1: In other instances, one twin film is just way more

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Speaker 1: popular than the other one to the to the point

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Speaker 1: where you might not have even heard of the other one.

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Speaker 1: So one example is Madagascar. We all know and love

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Speaker 1: ye I'm I'm movement movement, movement, movement, not knocked up.

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Speaker 1: There was a Disney movie that came out the same

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Speaker 1: year called The Wild, which was the same plot. Animals

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Speaker 1: from the Central Park zoo end up in Africa. Oh,

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Speaker 1: and it had like I had, like a real cast

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Speaker 1: wild Have you ever heard of this movie? No? Oh,

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Speaker 1: I need to see it. Let me see some imagery.

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Speaker 1: It just it looks like a generic, like a less

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Speaker 1: stylized version of Madagascar. But in the cast we had

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Speaker 1: Key for Sutherland, Eddie Lizard, Richard Kind was in there,

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Speaker 1: William Shatner. And it's like the same animals too. There's

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Speaker 1: a graft.

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Speaker 5: Who's the zebra?

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Speaker 1: There's no zebra? Okay, there's a draft in this one. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting making a zoom movie, it

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Speaker 1: would have a draft in line. But of course, the

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Speaker 1: most referred to example of twin films is of course

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Speaker 1: Armageddon and Deep Impact. Uh, we're gonna save that one

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Speaker 1: for later when we talked to the what went wrong folks,

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Speaker 1: But from my recollection, I think like Armageddon was like

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Speaker 1: the big, dumb, loud one, and Deep Impact was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be the higher brow, smartly written one. We'll see

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Speaker 1: if that holds up. But before we get into like

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Speaker 1: why exactly twin films happened so regularly with so much frequency,

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Speaker 1: what are some other ones that I'm missing? Like, what

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Speaker 1: are some big twin films.

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Speaker 6: There was the like rom coms of no Strings attached,

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, and then friends with Benefits.

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Speaker 1: I'm a doctor, I worked eighty hours a week. I

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Speaker 1: need someone who's going to be in my bed at

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Speaker 1: two am, who I don't have to eat breakfast with.

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Speaker 1: I'm emotionally unavailable.

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Speaker 2: I'm emotionally damaged.

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Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying, No emotions, just sux.

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Speaker 6: Those came out around the same time, around you know,

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Speaker 6: like friends who are love interests or artists.

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Speaker 1: You were the two Kutcher and uh who Natalie Portman

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Speaker 1: Natalie Portman, and then the other one was Myla Cunis

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Speaker 1: and Timberlake. And that's funny because Ashton Kutcher is married

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Speaker 1: to me Lacunas. They should have just had them in

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Speaker 1: the same movie.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. I don't know if they were married at the time.

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Speaker 6: I don't think they were, probably not, but they were

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Speaker 6: on that seventies show together, which is how.

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Speaker 1: They since then more than oh you're someone someone looked

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Speaker 1: this up, Jame not not now?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: What are some other ones? Like one I remember is

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Speaker 1: Dante's Peak. Yeah, I was just thinking that in.

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Speaker 3: The tone of Dante's Peak, a volcano is turning nature into.

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Speaker 1: A nightmare, which was Pierce Brosnan like disaster movie that

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Speaker 1: takes place in the Pacific Northwest. You know, they're escaping

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Speaker 1: from a volcanic a volcanic eruption. And this was an

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Speaker 1: example of one that was way more popular than the

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Speaker 1: other one, I think because I hadn't even known about

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Speaker 1: this movie Volcano with Tommy Lee Jones in a.

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Speaker 2: City where anything can happen on April twenty fifth.

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Speaker 1: It will same year or within a year of each other,

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Speaker 1: and same exact plot. But just I had not heard

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Speaker 1: of that one. Have you guys heard of Volcano?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but definitely Dante's peak was like always on, like yeah, TBS, yeah,

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Speaker 3: TVs like constantly.

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Speaker 1: Another classic one that's more recent is Olympus has Fallen,

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Speaker 1: White House Down.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, we're talking about the safety of the president of

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Speaker 6: the United States.

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Speaker 5: We're talking about all of them more than.

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Speaker 1: That, sir, Which is funny because they also both have

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Speaker 1: black presidents in them. Hey, what's funny?

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Speaker 5: We had run all right? People forget there's been one.

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Speaker 1: We did have one here. It made sense. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: think Morgan Freeman is the president in one of them,

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Speaker 1: and Jamie Fox is the president and I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: right whichever one say, yeah, that's crazy, that's my president

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Speaker 1: right there.

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Speaker 5: It's like he's young.

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Speaker 1: So Olympus has fallen? Is the Gerard Butler one, Yeah, okay?

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Speaker 1: And Channing Tatum's in White Houstone, I think, so White

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Speaker 1: House Down will be Channing Tatum and Jamie Fox. Is

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Speaker 1: Jamie Fox the president or is he just any president?

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Speaker 1: James Sawyer?

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Speaker 5: Oh wow?

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Speaker 1: And before any Olympus has fallen heads send me angry emails.

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Speaker 1: I should clear that Morgan Freeman's character is only technically

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Speaker 1: acting president. The elected president is Aaron Eckert. But of course,

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Speaker 1: there is one pair of twin films that the three

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Speaker 1: of us have spent a lot of time debating way back,

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Speaker 1: starting in twenty sixteen, and that is a Bugs Life

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Speaker 1: for the colony and for a press but everywhere versus Ants.

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Speaker 1: He's willing to live for the colony, to fight for

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Speaker 1: the colony, to die.

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Speaker 5: For the colony.

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Speaker 2: This guy's crazy.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: The reason we've been debating this is that Noah and

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Speaker 1: I feel like Ants is the obvious better movie, and

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Speaker 1: Devin thinks that we're crazy, of course, and I actually

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Speaker 1: want to break the differences between these movies down for

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Speaker 1: the listeners, because I think understanding the differences between these

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Speaker 1: movies might actually be useful for us in terms of

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out why films happen in the first place.

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Speaker 1: So let's start with the plot. Both movies are about

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Speaker 1: ants that spark a revolution of sorts against their oppressors.

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Speaker 1: In a bug's life, the oppressors are grasshoppers, evil grasshoppers.

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Speaker 1: They're not really dynamic. They're just evil. They just come

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Speaker 1: and bully and eat everything. So where is it?

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Speaker 5: Where's my phone?

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Speaker 2: It's a little more interesting.

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Speaker 1: In Ants, the ants are in a war with these

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Speaker 1: termites that are encroaching on their territory. But the war

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Speaker 1: general for the ants is like sending the ants that

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Speaker 1: are loyal to the queen off to war on a

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Speaker 1: suicide mission so that he and the remaining ants can

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Speaker 1: enact at coup d'eta damite colonies.

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Speaker 2: Sir, that's suicide exactly.

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Speaker 3: You have the list I asked for, Yes, General, these

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Speaker 3: are the units loyal to the queen.

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Speaker 1: So, Devin, why don't you tell us a little bit

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Speaker 1: about why you're wrong to think that a bugs life

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Speaker 1: is better and more interesting than that? Plot.

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Speaker 5: Well, first of all, both of these are supposed to

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Speaker 5: be kids movies.

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Speaker 1: That's true allegedly.

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Speaker 6: Okay, uh so A Bugs Life is picture our universe. Basically,

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Speaker 6: A Bugs Life looks like I don't know if there

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Speaker 6: is some sort of like Easter Egg. It looks like

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Speaker 6: it's a toy story. Yeah, like that style, very similar style.

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Speaker 6: You zoom in on want to Andy's Toys in the

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Speaker 6: grass somewhere, and you saw A bug Life happening, You'd

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Speaker 6: like this makes sense. Yes, so toy story iconic, A

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Speaker 6: Bugs Life iconic. Okay, they live in the same world.

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Speaker 6: Just just remember that. The thing that I love about

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Speaker 6: A Bugs Life is it has so many memorable scenes.

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Speaker 6: We did it back to backwashing of A Bugs Life

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Speaker 6: and Ants. You know, I had not watched this film

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Speaker 6: since I don't know, well, I was a child.

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Speaker 5: A long time ago.

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Speaker 6: That tracks and I had rememb scenes from A Bug's Life,

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Speaker 6: which is crazy all these years. It's not something that

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Speaker 6: really comes up, you know, in pop culture or anything

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Speaker 6: that you're like, you know, I'm not, And I was like,

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Speaker 6: oh my god. I remember the rain, specifically that rain

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Speaker 6: scene where the ants are running for their lives because

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Speaker 6: the rain drops are like, yes, and it is a

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Speaker 6: thing that, like, from my childhood to now, I thought

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Speaker 6: about and I didn't realize that I was thinking about

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Speaker 6: it because of A bugs lif When it rains and

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Speaker 6: I'm outside and I see bugs, I thought like, oh, shoot,

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Speaker 6: it's to go down. And then when I just watched

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Speaker 6: it more recently, it's like, oh, it's because of a

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Speaker 6: Bug's life. And that, I think is when you think

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Speaker 6: of childhood movies, those scenes that stay with you, that change.

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Speaker 5: The way you view the world.

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Speaker 6: Wow, okay, this is why we make films. And when

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Speaker 6: we watched ants if it felt like some weird Woody

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Speaker 6: Allen nightmare. Okay, yeah, well it's dark, it's very moody.

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Speaker 6: It's just like, I'm like, what, this is not for kids.

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Speaker 6: This feels like some adult was going through something and

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Speaker 6: they're forcing their kids to sit down and watch this.

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Speaker 6: It's like it feels like divorce dad energy.

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Speaker 1: A bugs Life is certainly more colorful and easier on

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Speaker 1: the eyes. And it's funny.

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Speaker 6: A Buzs Life is hilarious. Scene the scene, every line

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Speaker 6: is a joke. I'm watching ANTS, I'm like, what, nothing,

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Speaker 6: It really is not funny.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of depressing, and it's funny because there's an

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Speaker 3: there's PTSD.

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Speaker 1: It's that's it's funny. It's kind of cob you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's funny that the Ants have trauma.

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Speaker 5: I'm sorry, I don't think trauma is funny, but you

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Speaker 5: know some of us, some of us, I guess.

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Speaker 1: So let's go cast for cast. Here. You got Kevin

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Speaker 1: Spacey obviously as the villain Hopper.

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Speaker 5: Playing the proper role. Yeah, Evan Spacey, the villain, a

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Speaker 5: bad guy playing exactly great casting if you think about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but this was the way before he was They

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Speaker 1: knew there's something darkening. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Uh.

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Speaker 1: Julia Luis Dreyfus plays Atta.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, love interest.

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Speaker 1: Hayden Penny Tier is a dot the I think the

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Speaker 1: Little Girl aunt Richard Kind. You've got Dennis Leary. So

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Speaker 1: you know, it's pretty stacked cast. But let's look at

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Speaker 1: Ants because Ants has some fucking hitters in the cast.

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Speaker 1: Woody Allen obviously.

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Speaker 5: Woody Allen, it's a voice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, your boy, Kevin space no problem.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we don't need to go there.

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Speaker 1: Both films have problematic actors and memory. This is a wash. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they cancel each other out. Gene Hackman is Mandible, who

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Speaker 1: I believe is like the War General r P. Sharon

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Speaker 1: Stone is Bala. You got Dan Ackroyd, You've got Danny Glover.

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Lopez plays ass Teca Celeste Stallone. I mean this

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Speaker 1: is nuts. Christopher Walking Jim Yeah, I'm gonna say that

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Speaker 1: the Ants cast edges out A Bugs Life cast in

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Speaker 1: terms of, you know, real hitters.

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Speaker 5: If you just want to put names on the board, sure, yeah,

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Speaker 5: what in the world? Okay, but can you name what

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Speaker 5: happened these people did in the movie?

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Speaker 1: Gene Hackman is Manda.

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Speaker 5: Jennifer Lopez was.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know that's true. I don't have a I

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Speaker 1: don't have an argument against that. Sly Stallone is in

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Speaker 1: there as a character that looks like him.

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Speaker 3: I remember this, and I believe Chris Walking too is

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Speaker 3: kind of Yeah, they do tell me that's what Sharks

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Speaker 3: did too, which I think all animated movies should do that. No, well,

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Speaker 3: could you talk a little bit about why you like

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Speaker 3: Ants the film better than A Bug's Life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just I like more mature sorts of things.

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Speaker 5: I like a PG movie.

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Speaker 1: If I can get one, you know.

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Speaker 3: I like kind of edgy humor, like that, So, you know,

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Speaker 3: I was, you know, kind of refreshing myself on Ants,

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Speaker 3: and you know, it's it really is a proper war movie.

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Speaker 3: There's nods to Apocalypse now there's there was one scene

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Speaker 3: that really set up to me, especially on our rewatch,

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Speaker 3: was there's this huge, real pretty serious battle scene and

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Speaker 3: then the leader he's decapitated.

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Speaker 1: The second I remember this.

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Speaker 3: Don't make my mistake, don't follow it as your whole

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Speaker 3: life thinking for yourself anyway, the bodyless head is you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of giving his final words of like whoa this is?

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Speaker 5: Is wild?

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Speaker 1: That's a dark movie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just a little for me as an adult

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Speaker 3: watching this, not sharing it with kids, it's more interesting

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Speaker 3: to watch today. Oh grant, I didn't really watch Bugs

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Speaker 3: Life as a kid. I watched it, but it was

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Speaker 3: never like on rotation for.

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Speaker 1: Me for whatever reason. So it didn't imprint the way

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Speaker 1: where it's like these certain little scenes.

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Speaker 5: You didn't have a good watch I say that? Did

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Speaker 5: I say that?

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Speaker 1: I did not say that. I enjoyed watching both of them.

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Speaker 2: I like picking we're picking one.

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Speaker 5: That's the prompt.

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Speaker 2: I simply enjoy the.

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Speaker 5: More, And I like you had more fun watching Ants.

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Speaker 1: There's a little bit more of I guess they kind

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Speaker 1: of have different goals. And that's what's tough about this is,

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Speaker 1: despite the fact that they're twin films, they're not necessarily

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Speaker 1: one for want. They're not so easy to compare. And

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Speaker 1: I like the kind of ugly, garish art style of ANTS. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they look like something to look at.

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Speaker 3: And I appreciate the kind of neurotic witticisms of you know,

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Speaker 3: the Woody Allen esque character.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think here in New York the humor was really interesting.

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Speaker 1: But that's not to say I disliked A Bug's Life.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's definitely I.

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Speaker 6: Know, I know you two didn't dislike it because y'all

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Speaker 6: were cracking up, gigglin the whole time.

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Speaker 1: Again, not much being said. You think about sitting with

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Speaker 1: when we're watching ANTS, taking notes.

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Speaker 5: I watched movies to be entertained.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you can do both ideally, you get both ideally.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So now we know what a twin film is and

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Speaker 1: we've been through many, many examples. After the break, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna chat with the hosts of the What Went Wrong

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Speaker 1: podcast the show about the film and and see if

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Speaker 1: we can get their thoughts on why twin films happened

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Speaker 1: so regularly in the first place. All right, We're now

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Speaker 1: joined by Lizzie and Chris from the popular What Went

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Speaker 1: Wrong podcast. Thank you guys for joining us. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for having us. It's an honor to be here.

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Speaker 1: You guys are so much fancier than us.

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Speaker 2: You have mugste Yeah, yeah, we try, we try.

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Speaker 1: Before you guys joined us, we were talking about this

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Speaker 1: phenomenon of the twin films. We had just ended a

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Speaker 1: rigorous debate about whether A Bugs Life or Ants is

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Speaker 1: the better film. Noah and I are on the ants

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Speaker 1: on team Ants, and Devin is team of Bugs Life.

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Speaker 1: I'm just curious what your guys take. Are you have

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Speaker 1: a strong opinion you too.

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Speaker 4: With your Aunts defending I am I'm done. I'm very

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Speaker 4: interested to I can't wait to hear what your argument

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Speaker 4: was for both sides. But now I'm mad.

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Speaker 2: I would also lean a Bugs Life, although not as

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Speaker 2: hard as Lizzie. I appreciate as the manifestation of Jeffrey

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Speaker 2: Katzenberg in a movie, but I still prefer I think, overall,

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Speaker 2: a Bugs Life. But I have kids that age like

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Speaker 2: I would show my daughter a Bugs Life. I probably

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Speaker 2: wouldn't show her aunts At this point.

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Speaker 1: I agree with that.

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Speaker 6: It's an enjoyable film. It's so much fun, so memorable. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: and it feels like, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, I don't have to think of Alan marrying his

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Speaker 2: stepdaughter while I'm watching it, exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's you have to do you have to think about

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Speaker 1: Kevin Spacey.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't need Woody Allen as the romantic lead.

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Speaker 4: And you want to know, my biggest problem with Ants

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Speaker 4: was that I literally screamed at the TV when I

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Speaker 4: was rewatching it for this episode they're human teeth. It's

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Speaker 4: the most horrible, Yeah, says so creepy horrible when he's

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Speaker 4: chewing on the plastic. I was like, I'm this sit,

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Speaker 4: I'm done.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So Chris and Lizzie. When it comes to Ants

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Speaker 1: and A Bug's Life coming out at the same time,

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Speaker 1: is it true that there was an alleged intellectual property theft?

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about that?

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Speaker 2: Well, my understanding is so development on A Bug's Life

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Speaker 2: began before development on Ants, and so John Lassiter was

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Speaker 2: the director of A Bug's Life, who was written by

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Speaker 2: Andrew Stanton. Joe Ranft, who actually does the voice of

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Speaker 2: Heimlich in the movie. Was co story creator with those two,

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Speaker 2: and this was a well known project within the animation community.

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Speaker 2: And I have a slightly different thesis as to why

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Speaker 2: these two movies are both around bugs. Lizz about Toy

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Speaker 2: Story on our podcast, and one of the reasons that

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Speaker 2: they chose toys was because highly reflective surfaces as a

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Speaker 2: texture are a lot easier to animate. At this point

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Speaker 2: in the technologies, like maturation process in the mid nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 2: it's really hard to do hair. This is why like Monsters, Inc.

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Speaker 2: And Shrek don't come until the early two thousands. A

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Speaker 2: bug's Life makes a lot of sense because, okay, well

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Speaker 2: we can animate bugs, right they have these they're exoskeletons,

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Speaker 2: they're shiny. This makes sense. Also, it's ants. We can

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Speaker 2: make one model and then we can clone it a

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Speaker 2: bunch of times, and it's like Andy and all his

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Speaker 2: friends at the birthday party and Toy Story. So the

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Speaker 2: allegations were that Lasseter and Katzenberg had more unfriendly terms.

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Speaker 2: Katzenberg acrimoniously left Disney. He felt he had been owed

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Speaker 2: a higher position by then CEO Michael Eisner. He was

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Speaker 2: looked over after Lizzie remind David Wells or Frank Wells.

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Speaker 2: I can never remember.

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Speaker 4: Oh man, I want I say it's Frank Wells, but

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Speaker 4: let me double check. He's the he was the head

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Speaker 4: of Disney who I'm sure you guys know about this,

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Speaker 4: But he died unexpectedly in helicopter crash.

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Speaker 2: It's Frank Wells, so frankly.

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Speaker 4: And it's pretty wild because you know, we talked about

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Speaker 4: this in Toy Story, but this guy dies in a

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Speaker 4: helicopter crash. And then Jeffrey Katzenberg is like, oh, he's dead.

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Speaker 4: Is it my turn? Is it my turn?

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Speaker 5: Now?

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Speaker 2: What's up with the promotion? Let's get this going?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Katzenberg leaves. He ends up suing Disney for an unpaid

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Speaker 2: bonus of well over one hundred million dollars. He also

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Speaker 2: was on the you know, Michael Ovitz, formerly of CAAA,

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Speaker 2: is coming in. It's a very messy time. DreamWorks gets built,

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Speaker 2: and obviously Pixar starts working with Disney for their distribution

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Speaker 2: of Toy Story and then A Bug's Life. And so

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Speaker 2: the accusation is that that Katzenberg stole the idea for

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Speaker 2: A Bug's Life or ants from a Bug's Life after

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Speaker 2: having soundboard conversations with Lassiter, who felt that he could

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Speaker 2: trust Katzenberg. On Katzenberg's side, my understanding is he has asserted,

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Speaker 2: although I've heard also that he has kind of admitted

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Speaker 2: as much that he may have taken this idea from Lassitter.

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Speaker 2: He has asserted that there was a pitch for a

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Speaker 2: movie called Army Ants back in nineteen eighty eight while

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Speaker 2: he was at Disney Animation that was about a worker

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Speaker 2: aunt trying to bestow the benefits of individuality upon their

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Speaker 2: colony that went nowhere, and that that's kind of where

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Speaker 2: the idea originated, and then.

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Speaker 5: He picked it up.

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Speaker 2: My guess, my best guess, and you guys can tell me, like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if we know the truth, but my

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Speaker 2: best guess is there are technological limitations in place, and

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Speaker 2: there's only so many types of characters that you can

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Speaker 2: do at this point in time. And Toy Story had

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Speaker 2: already come out, and I think Toy Soldiers is maybe

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Speaker 2: around this time as well, and so like the DreamWorks

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Speaker 2: is this upstart, we probably don't want to do toys. Okay,

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Speaker 2: we'll do bugs, and we could probably come close to

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Speaker 2: doing bugs. Pixars doing bugs. They just bought PDI. I'd

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Speaker 2: also heard that PDI specific data Imaging had a BUGS

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Speaker 2: treatment in the works as well that was also different

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Speaker 2: than a bugs life. So again, my instinct in this

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Speaker 2: could get come to my big unifying theory about twin

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Speaker 2: films is that maybe Katzenberg stole it, or maybe he

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Speaker 2: was mulling on this and he saw Pixar as proof

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Speaker 2: that this was a good direction for DreamWorks to go.

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Speaker 1: Before we get your guys's thoughts and theories about why

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Speaker 1: twin films kind of occur so regularly, or at least

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Speaker 1: they seem to occur so regularly. I wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about Armageddon.

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Speaker 2: Hitting a rock from the outside and we'll be the

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Speaker 2: job so we knew this thing from the inside. Ah,

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Speaker 2: we drill from bringing the World's prest.

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Speaker 1: Dave Cordriller and Deep Impact, two comments were discovered. Is

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Speaker 1: on a collision course with Earth.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen those movies in a very long time,

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Speaker 1: but from what I recall, I want to see if

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Speaker 1: this is accurate. Armageddon is kind of like the big,

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Speaker 1: big dumb blockbuster, and Deep Impact is a slightly more,

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Speaker 1: slightly smarter, higher brow disaster film.

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Speaker 5: Is that right?

439
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 1: Am I making that out? No? No, you're right.

440
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 4: But here's what's funny.

441
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 2: They're closer than we remember. Yea, they are.

442
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,239
Speaker 4: Closer and honestly, I so we did this for our

443
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 4: live show, which was a blast. We did these two movies,

444
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 4: and I went into it remembering the same thing, Like

445
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 4: I loved Deep Impact when I was a kid, and

446
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 4: I was like, this is the smart movie. This is

447
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 4: the movie that carries about science, and I can't wait

448
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 4: to rewatch this. And I rewatched it and I was like, God,

449
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 4: I'm bored. I miss Armageddon and you watch Armageddon and

450
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 4: it's just insane. It's completely insane. I loved it.

451
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: Can you show us about the similarities and the differences

452
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 1: between these two movies?

453
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 4: Sure? So you you know, you have an asteroid that

454
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 4: is hurtling towards Earth and the only way to get

455
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 4: rid of it is to blow it up, and then

456
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 4: from there, from there it just the paths diverge in

457
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 4: the wood.

458
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 2: But the how they're going to deal with it is

459
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 2: the same blow it up. They're gonna blow it up

460
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 2: by drilling and sticking a nuke in the hole, right,

461
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 2: and with.

462
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 4: Deep Impact, it makes like a decent amount of sense

463
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 4: how they're gonna go about this. They're gonna use astronauts,

464
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 4: which you know they're going to space, so that that tracks.

465
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 4: And then you have Armageddon where.

466
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 2: This is where Lizzie and I differ in our opinions.

467
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 2: By the way, this is the good, good idea.

468
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 4: You have Armageddon where Bruce Willis walks in to Billy

469
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 4: Bob Thornton at NASA and he's like, I believe the

470
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 4: line is something along the lines of, you know, you

471
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 4: want to.

472
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 2: Send these boys into space. Fine, I'm sure they'll make

473
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 2: good astronauts.

474
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: They don't know.

475
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: Jack about drilling. They don't know jack about drilling. I

476
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: haven't drilling for forty years. And then he basically says, look,

477
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 2: you need less astronauts, more oil drillers, and they send like.

478
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 4: One William Fickner into space, and then the rest are

479
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 4: all oil drillers and you know what they do it, guys,

480
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 4: They get it done.

481
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 2: So they're very similar in a lot of ways, they're

482
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 2: very structurally different. What's interesting is obviously army and presents

483
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 2: itself as an action movie. Deep Impact is effectively a

484
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 2: soap opera. It's a melodrama at the end of the day.

485
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 2: But it is interesting both were very successful. Armageddon was

486
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 2: more successful at the box office ultimately, and the I

487
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 2: don't know if you guys came across this advice. Some

488
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 2: executive at one point say, you know, when you're dealing

489
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 2: with the twin film situation, the key is to come

490
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 2: out first. But the more I looked into it, I

491
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 2: don't think that's really the case. The key is, if

492
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 2: you're the lesser of the two films, come out.

493
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 5: Come out first.

494
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 2: What's more important, meaning like, if you don't have the

495
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: star power, if you don't think you have the marketing punch,

496
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 2: maybe you don't think your movies is good, you should

497
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 2: probably land first. That that might be good advice.

498
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 4: You know, as I was watching Ants and a Bugs

499
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 4: Life and also thinking about Deep In, Back to Armageddon

500
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,719
Speaker 4: and so many of these other twin films, it does

501
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 4: seem to me that the dichotomy is often one of them.

502
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 4: As you explain this, Manny, one of them is set

503
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 4: up as like this is the smart movie, like this

504
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 4: is the one for all the smart people, and the

505
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 4: other ones like this is the big dumb one, this

506
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 4: is the big dump gun one, And that seems to

507
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 4: be true kind of across a lot of these, and

508
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 4: I just wonder why, Like, is that just how they

509
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 4: start to differentiate them as they realize that they're on

510
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 4: parallel paths.

511
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 5: But I don't know.

512
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 4: I'm curious what you guys think.

513
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: It's a great question, especially thinking about some of the

514
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: other popular twin films examples, Like we were talking earlier

515
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: about Dante's Peak versus Volcano and talking about how like

516
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: in some of these instances, one of the movie just

517
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: becomes way more popular and famous than the other one.

518
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: I actually hadn't heard of Volcano until I was researching

519
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 1: twin films movies. But it's not like a no name

520
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: movie like Tommy Lee Jones is the star of it.

521
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: So I haven't seen Volcano. I don't know if that

522
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: one is branded or marketed as like a dumber or okay, dumb?

523
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 4: Is it as dumb as Dante's Peak.

524
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: It's dumber in the sense that Dante's Peak is making

525
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 2: an attempt to model itself after the eruption of Mount

526
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 2: Saint Helens and Volcano is there's a volcano in La

527
00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 2: This is crazy.

528
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: That come from? So wait, what is the story behind

529
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: Armageddon and Deep Impact? How did those come out at

530
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: the same time.

531
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 2: Well, this one's really interesting. A lot of twin films

532
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: are disaster films, not surprisingly, and you know, Hollywood, the

533
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 2: peak of disaster films in Hollywood was the nineteen seventies, right.

534
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: You had Airport exclamation Point in nineteen seventy, which shockingly

535
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 2: made a ton of money. Things kind of hit their

536
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 2: zenis with Towering Inferno, which actually was competing twin films

537
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 2: that came together from two different studios. Irwin Allen was

538
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 2: the producer behind a lot of these big, big disaster movies,

539
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: and they were really an exploration of the peak of

540
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 2: what could be done with modern special effects, miniatures, incredible

541
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 2: stage builds, et cetera. That tails off at the end

542
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 2: of the nineteen seventies. You have some attempts at eco

543
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: horror like Swarm and stuff like that, and then we

544
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 2: get into like action blockbusters of the eighties. But then

545
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 2: you have a new technological revolution with Jurassic Park in

546
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 2: the early nineteen nineties, and all of a sudden, we

547
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 2: have all these new tools in our toolbox that we

548
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: can play with, and so then you get this new

549
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 2: renaissance of disaster films. You know, Twister with Jon Debant,

550
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 2: Titanic for example, and obviously Deep Impact and Army Again.

551
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 2: And so what's interesting is one of the films has

552
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 2: its roots in the nineteen seventies. Deep Impact is Xanak

553
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 2: and Brown who had produced Jaws and a number of

554
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 2: other films, and they were going to do an adaptation

555
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 2: of When World's Collide, which was a very famous book

556
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 2: about another planet hitting Earth. And I think the problem

557
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 2: was development kind of spiraled until the disaster film renaissance

558
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 2: had run its course at the end of the seventies.

559
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 2: They put the script in a drawer. Early nineties, they

560
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 2: pulled the script out of the drawer. They kind of

561
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: stopped working together, but they say, hey, we're going to

562
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 2: come back for one last hurrah. They take it to

563
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 2: Steven Spielberg at DreamWorks, who says, great, I'm going to

564
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 2: direct this, and we have all these brand new technological tools.

565
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 2: He's just done Jurassic Park, like, we can actually show

566
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 2: an asteroid hitting the Earth. And then Lizzie, maybe you

567
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 2: can talk a little bit about how this idea may

568
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 2: have found its way to rival Studio Disney in the

569
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: mid nineteen nineties.

570
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 4: This is another dream Works in Disney rivalry across these

571
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 4: two movies, but so unconfirmed, but there is reason to

572
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 4: believe that the screenwriter for Uh, Deep Impact, one of

573
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 4: the screenwriters may have had lunch with Michael Ovitz.

574
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 2: We lunch with an unnamed president of Disney, yes, and

575
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 2: we believe it might be Michael Ovitz.

576
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 4: Right, and this is Bruce Joel Rubin. It could be

577
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 4: Michael Ovitz. But regardless, they sat down, they had lunch,

578
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 4: and you know, he asks Bruce what he's working on?

579
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 4: What are you working on? And Bruce is like, wow,

580
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 4: you know, I probably shouldn't tell you. It's for dream

581
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 4: for It's for DreamWorks. And he's like, we're buddies. We're

582
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 4: buddies here, you know, we're just guys, just a couple

583
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 4: of guys.

584
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: Michael Ovitz formerly Steven Spielberg's agent, so maybe said to him, Hey,

585
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 2: I've worked with Steve for you know, twenty years. We're friends.

586
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 4: I'm a safe space. So anyway, they have this lunch,

587
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 4: Bruce explains what he's working on. He you know, gives

588
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 4: the full elevator pitch and more for Deep Impact, and

589
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 4: then taking notes during the lunch, which at that point

590
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 4: you should probably stop talking yes, that's how I remember

591
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 4: what I like about my friends. You know, it's so

592
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 4: funny because shortly thereafter, Michael Bay and Jonathan Hensley go

593
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 4: in to pitch Armageddon and they have like the loosest

594
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:43,719
Speaker 4: of loose napkin scribbled ideas for this movie and they

595
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 4: go in and the pitch is so fast. Disney's like, yes, Greenlit,

596
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 4: it's happening. We're doing it. And by the way, it's

597
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 4: called Armageddon, and you're gonna be in the theaters in

598
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 4: you know, a year. And the theory is that, you know,

599
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 4: perhaps they were already noodling this after that lunch, and

600
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 4: so when Michael Bay came in and he was like, uh,

601
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 4: what about astronauts and oil drillers, they were like, done, done, Michael,

602
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 4: we love it.

603
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 5: I can't wait.

604
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: And what's funny is Armageddon is the production that worked

605
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: closely with NASA, and so it's.

606
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 4: The one that they had to have approved by NASA

607
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 4: for scientific accuracy.

608
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: And what is interesting too, Lizzie, you know, as we

609
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 2: talked about in our episode, is there were two other

610
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: asteroid related projects in development. So James Cameron's Bright Angel

611
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: Falling was set up at I believe twentieth century Fox

612
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: at the time, with Peter Hyams maybe set to direct.

613
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 2: That never went anywhere, but if you can read the script.

614
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: I found a copy of it, and it's clear somebody

615
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: ripped off somebody because between Armagedon, armag has thown so

616
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: much from Bright Angel Falling or vice versa. And then

617
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 2: you also have Asteroid, which becomes an NBC mini series

618
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 2: that's released I think in the back half of nineteen

619
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: ninety seven.

620
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: And all of this isn't coming out of thin air, right,

621
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: Like all of these all of these movies and TV

622
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: shows about asteroids were inspired by the news of a

623
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: comet that NASA foundin Yeah.

624
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: The Shoemaker Levy comet had hit Jupiter, and there was

625
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: all of this imagery of it, and we all of

626
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 2: a sudden, really is holy shit. Outer space is like

627
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 2: a shooting gallery, and there are asteroids flying by us

628
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 2: and comets flying by us all the time that we've

629
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 2: been unaware of. And also, you know, this hypothesis that

630
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 2: the dinosaurs had been destroyed by asteroid or comet hitting

631
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 2: the Earth had been formulated in nineteen eighty five, but

632
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 2: I think had really permeated the popular culture in the

633
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 2: early nineties with the advent of something like Jurassic Park,

634
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: for example, dinosaurs ares top of mind. So again, I

635
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 2: do think it's there are a lot of minds in

636
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 2: Hollywood and we're all processing the same information at the

637
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 2: end of the day, and so it does make sense

638
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 2: that these ideas, maybe they're stolen from time to time.

639
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 2: But what seems more likely is, like asteroids, there are

640
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 2: so many hurling past us in any given moment, and

641
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 2: what's more unusual is that two studios have the hubris

642
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 2: to play the game of chicken and decide to go

643
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: head to head with developing these movies. And so to me,

644
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: it's like the way possibly to think about it is

645
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 2: that there is actually a lot of potential for twin

646
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 2: films at any given moment, and the reason that we

647
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: don't have them is that studios tend to back away

648
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 2: from going head to head with one another with a

649
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 2: given film because it's incredibly risky. And I mean, Lizzie

650
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: and I talk about this all the time. Studios, you know,

651
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 2: they move movies off of certain weekends because they don't

652
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: want to compete with a different movie that may overlap

653
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: in terms of audience. And so one way to think

654
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 2: about it might be less I'm going to shoot another bullet,

655
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 2: you know, with my gun in mid air, and instead say,

656
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 2: there are so many bullets traveling through the air at

657
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 2: all times, I'm actually going to remove my other bullets,

658
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: you know, from time to time, so they don't you

659
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: interfere with the other studio.

660
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 4: I actually really like twin films. I like watching them.

661
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 4: I'm not mad at their existence at all because there's

662
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 4: such a great example of it's not about the story

663
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 4: or the idea, it's how you tell it. And it's

664
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 4: so fascinating to see two completely different directors like Michael

665
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 4: Bay and Mimi Leader. You can't get more different than

666
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 4: those two in terms of armageddon and deep impact telling

667
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 4: what is a very similar story, and yet the movies

668
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 4: are so different and they are individually enjoyable, And I

669
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 4: like when studios plow ahead with this and like, yes,

670
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 4: I'm sure there's borrowing, you know, there's osmosis of ideas

671
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 4: all the time everywhere. I don't know that that's necessarily

672
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 4: a bad thing, because they're not going to be the

673
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 4: same movie if it's different people making them.

674
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 1: So what I'm hearing is that to us it feels

675
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: like twin films are happening so frequently, But what you

676
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: two are saying is that, actually, considering the way films

677
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: are produced, twin films could be occurring way more frequently

678
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 1: than they are.

679
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 2: So the way I maybe encourage people to think about

680
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: it after looking into this a bit is, you know,

681
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 2: historically a classic form of twin film has been like

682
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: the A feature in the B feature, right, and so

683
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 2: sometimes this has been on the big screen, and sometimes

684
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: it's either the big screen versus the small screen. So

685
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 2: like post disaster film renaissance, you would oftentimes see an

686
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 2: A picture in theaters and either a mini series or

687
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 2: a television B picture on television. And I think the

688
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 2: thinking here is there is an idea that has seemingly

689
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 2: captured the zeitgeist, and the television corollary to the studio

690
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 2: is saying, we are going to make our low budget,

691
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 2: very fast, cheap and dirty version of this, you know,

692
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 2: Tornado versus Twister, the television two part mini series of

693
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 2: Titanic in ninety six versus James Cameron's epic in ninety seven.

694
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 2: Because a we think that if an audience is interested

695
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 2: in the big feature version, maybe they'll just watch this

696
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 2: because they're also interested in this, but also be we

697
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 2: could capture a section of the market that that studio

698
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 2: is not going to be able to capitalize on, which

699
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 2: are the people that are not going to go to

700
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 2: the theater necessarily, the people that are just going to

701
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 2: stay home and watch it on television. And this is

702
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 2: kind of morphed over time into the Blockbuster more recently,

703
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 2: which you guys might you know the guys who do Sharknado, etc.

704
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: And they do things like transmorphers and paranormal entity and

705
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 2: it almost seems like the movie, but it's not the

706
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 2: movie that was really born out of two thousand and

707
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 2: six as War of the World. Spielberg was doing an

708
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 2: adaptation of World the World's at the same time that

709
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 2: these producers, who are kind of Roger kormanesque are trying

710
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 2: to do their version of War the Worlds because it's

711
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 2: public domain. This ip they realize, wait, a second Blockbuster

712
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 2: has ordered one hundred thousand copies of our vhs, mistakenly

713
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 2: thinking they've ordered the Steven at Bilberg one. There's a

714
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 2: business opportunity here, and so I think that's that makes

715
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 2: sense from a business perspective, and like what you're saying,

716
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 2: is the more rare instances to kaiju, you know, going

717
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: at it in the water, like Olympus has fallen and

718
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: White House down, for example, And those are rare. I

719
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 2: think again, not because the inception of those ideas is rare.

720
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 2: They're actually incredibly common. It's that usually one of the

721
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: drivers pulls out of the skin and says like, I

722
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 2: don't want our cars to hit head on.

723
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: Just to kind of distill the reasons why we think

724
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: twin films are happening in two kind of easily consumable explanations.

725
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: What I'm hearing so far in this conversation is one

726
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: reason is, you know, literal intellectual theft. Another reason is

727
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: that something happened in the Zeitgei said influenced multiple films

728
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: to be developed at the same time. Example of that

729
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: would be like Steve Jobs dying and then there's two

730
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,479
Speaker 1: biopics happening all of a sudden. And then the third

731
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: reason we were talking about is kind of just like

732
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: technological limitations or breakthroughs, like on the breakthroughs.

733
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 4: I think that's exactly right. I think it's a confluence

734
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 4: of those three things. And I also just think, you know,

735
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 4: it's it's so tempting to think you stole my idea.

736
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 4: You know, it's something that we've probably all experienced. But

737
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 4: the thing that's harder to come to terms with is

738
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 4: that I don't know that any of our ideas are

739
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 4: actually that individual when you break them down, and there's

740
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 4: there is kind of a collective, unconscious pool I think

741
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 4: we're always pulling from, and I do think that's where

742
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 4: twin films come from. Like, yes, sometimes you go to

743
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 4: lunch with your quote unquote friend who's taking notes, probably

744
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 4: kicking your idea, but there's other times where it's just

745
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 4: asteroids and comments are in the news, or it's something

746
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 4: people are thinking about. It's something that's in the back

747
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 4: of your mind. It's something and that's in the back

748
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 4: of millions of people's minds, and it's something that you realize, hey,

749
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 4: I could make money on this, and the fact that

750
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 4: somebody else has that idea does not necessarily mean they

751
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,720
Speaker 4: took it from you. And I think that we underestimate

752
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 4: our sort of common brain a bit.

753
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 2: There are also you know, anniversaries, for example, this would

754
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 2: tie into the zeitgeist thing. You know, you had fourteen

755
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 2: ninety two conquest of Paradise Ridley Scott. You know Christopher Columbus,

756
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: nobody saw it, and then you have Christopher Columbus the

757
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 2: Discovery from the producers of a bunch of Superman films.

758
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 2: Also nobody saw that movie. So like, nobody was really

759
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 2: interested in the five hundredth Anniversary of Chris, but it

760
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 2: was there. It was embraced by a couple of studios

761
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 2: to the tune of one hundred million dollars, Like Lizzie

762
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 2: is saying, we are all collectively filtering the same information

763
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 2: and looking for stories in a lot of these places,

764
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 2: and sometimes it's influenced by twin events inside of other

765
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 2: forms of media. So you know, you have like the

766
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 2: mid odds to twenty thirteen sort of ya dystopian future phenomena,

767
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 2: right where you have the Hunger Games, and you have Divergent,

768
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 2: and you have the Maize Runner and these are all

769
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 2: based on like they're all literary adaptations. But that's because

770
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 2: the literary landscape was very much riddled with ya dystopian

771
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 2: and you know novels. Well, Okay, why is the literature

772
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: landscape riddled with that? Okay, maybe it's because we're in

773
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 2: the middle of a recession. Right now, and all of

774
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 2: the you know, hope and change that everybody said Obama

775
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 2: is going to bring, it doesn't see to be happening

776
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, and it's gonna be the Hunger Games.

777
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 2: And so these books are really resonant. Who knows, but

778
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 2: I do think Hollywood is very reactionary. At the end

779
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 2: of the day, We're simultaneously incredibly unique, and that the

780
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 2: scene to scene differences in these movies could not be

781
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 2: more drastic, and yet the big picture ideas that we're

782
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,919
Speaker 2: coming to are very universal. I think. Yeah.

783
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: And if, for example, Devin and I wanted to make

784
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: a movie about ants separately, of course they're both gonna

785
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 1: have the Queen Aunt. They're both gonna have the ant

786
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: colony or the army. They're both gonna you know exactly,

787
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: I'll go. I'll see if I can get I don't know.

788
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: Who Kevin Spacey problematic.

789
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 1: All right, So we learned a little bit about why

790
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: Twin films happened so regularly. But after the break, I

791
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 1: want to return to a bugs life and see why

792
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: Chris and Lizzie think this movie works so well, Okay,

793
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: we're bad. We're still here with the hosts of what

794
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: went wrong Chris and Lizzie. At the top of our discussion,

795
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: we were talking about A Bugs Life Versus Ants, and

796
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: more broadly, these kind of Disney Pixar versus DreamWorks twin films.

797
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 1: I've always felt like the dream Works titles were a

798
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: little more interesting because they were weirder essentially and a

799
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 1: little more nuanced. But I'm curious about what makes the

800
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: Pixar movies click for you two.

801
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 4: I feel like the it's very tempting to call these Pixar,

802
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 4: if we're talking about Pixar versus DreamWorks, to call the

803
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 4: Pixar movies in particular Bugs Life the more sort of

804
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 4: simplistic ones. I actually think that they're deceptively complicated when

805
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 4: I watched, because I watched both A Bugs Life and

806
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 4: Ants back to back ahead of this, and honestly, yes,

807
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 4: A Bugs Life is more geared towards children for sure. However,

808
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 4: I think that the sort of the complex like emotional

809
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 4: things you have to wrangle with in A Bugs Life,

810
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 4: to me are a bit more complex than they are

811
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 4: in Ants and tells you exactly what it is upfront,

812
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 4: you know, it's yeah, Whitty Allen Aunt is in therapy.

813
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 4: They literally tell him you're insignificant. He's like, Okay, I

814
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 4: get it. And then he's like, maybe I'm not insignificant.

815
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 4: Maybe when you to start a revolution and the people.

816
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 4: I mean, it's like, it's listen, it's fun. I actually

817
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 4: I'm not. I shouldn't crap on it too much. It's

818
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 4: a totally fun movie, but with a bugs life. It's

819
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 4: more like, I think, in making something that is easier

820
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 4: for children to relate to, but still very smart, they

821
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 4: actually explore something that to me has a bit more

822
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 4: depth to it. And in the same and toy story, like,

823
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 4: the characters are actually very complex. You don't you know

824
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 4: Woody is the main character in that he's he's kind

825
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,439
Speaker 4: of a jerk to buzz like. He's a great guy

826
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 4: until he's confronted with someone who could, potentially you stir

827
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 4: up his position, and then he's not such a great guy. Well,

828
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 4: if you and shown up your stupid little cardboard spaceship.

829
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 3: And taking away everything that was important to me, talk

830
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 3: to me about importance because of you, the security of

831
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 3: this entire universe.

832
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 5: Is in jeopardy.

833
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 4: What And it's this question of like having to wrangle

834
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 4: with yourself in a way that I actually think the

835
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 4: Pixar films explore better than some of the dream works.

836
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 1: Interesting. Yeah, it's like it's taking these complicated ideas and

837
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 1: making it digestible for kids. Is more impressive. You're saying

838
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: than this is music to Devin's ears.

839
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 5: Is exactly exactly the Bugs Life. They're playing around with gender.

840
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 5: Remember the lady.

841
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 4: A real bug being a lady by automatically makes me

842
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 4: a girl?

843
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 1: Is that it?

844
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 5: Fly boy?

845
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 3: She's a guy.

846
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: Time.

847
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 2: Also, you know self love and embody image. And I agree,

848
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 2: it's like that was lying.

849
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 4: Out loud through all of Bugs Life. I gotta tell

850
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 4: you how laughing. I couldn't believe how funny that was.

851
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like in a drama, a line has to

852
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 2: work dramatically. In a comedy, it has to work dramatically

853
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 2: and comedically. Right if you're like, a Pixar film has

854
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 2: to work for children and adults an equal measure. And

855
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 2: like Lizzie's saying, that's a that's a hard target to hit.

856
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: Yeah it is.

857
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 4: And I think interestingly enough to me, Aunts the characters

858
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 4: were less dynamic and more sort of characters versus a

859
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 4: Bugs life. They were very complex, Like you know, the

860
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:33,720
Speaker 4: Julia Louis Dreyfus, Princess Aunt, total jerk to Dave Foley.

861
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 4: I can't remember any of the actual characters names. I

862
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 4: just want you guys to know that.

863
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 2: The main character's name is Flick.

864
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 4: She's such a jerk to him and and she like

865
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,879
Speaker 4: recognizes that in herself halfway through, which was really nice

866
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 4: because I was like, man, I hope he doesn't just

867
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 4: go for her when she's being you know, such as him.

868
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 4: But she turns it around and I just, uh, yeah, man,

869
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 4: I loved it, And the whole idea of the bird

870
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 4: is so clever and something you would think. Sorry, guys,

871
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 4: I'm really sorry.

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00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: Great points. Yeah, something I wanted to make it. Something

873
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: interesting that Noah mentioned earlier was that in the dreams

874
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 1: works ones like shark Tail and Ants, the characters are

875
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 1: often caricatures of the people voicing them. Yes, which like

876
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 1: you got the creator for walking exactly yeah, which I

877
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: don't know. I just thought that was interesting.

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00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 4: I'm not a fan of that.

879
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 1: You don't want to see like Christopher walking that.

880
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,399
Speaker 4: I don't want to see Christopher walking and I don't

881
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 4: want to see its teeth.

882
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: I salon was awesome. You have to agree, Uh, well, guys,

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00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: this has been so insightful and useful. Thank you so

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00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: much for joining us and hope to chat to you

885
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 1: guys soon.

886
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:49,320
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having us. This is great. You

887
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 2: guys have a great show. We will be listening.

888
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: No such thing as a production of Kaleidoscope Content. Our

889
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: executive producers are Kate Osborne and Mangesh Hatakedor. The show

890
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: was created by Manny Fidel, Noah Friedman, and Devin Joseph.

891
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: The theme and credit song is by me Manny. This

892
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 1: episode was mixed by fran Bandy. Our guests this week

893
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: where Chris and Lizzie from the What Went Wrong Podcast.

894
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: Definitely be sure to go check that show out. It's

895
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: a lot of fun and visit No such Thing dot

896
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: show to subscribe to our newsletter. If you had feedback

897
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 1: or a question, our email is Manny Noah Devin at

898
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Or if you're in the US, you

899
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: can leave us a voicemail by calling the number in

900
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 1: our show notes. We'll see you next week.

901
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 2: Thay