1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: For the first time in more than fifty years, Congress 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: is pointing its attention toward uf foes. That's right, floating 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,159 Speaker 1: green triangles, and a sphere like object flying past a 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: fighter jet. These are just a few of the photos 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: and videos shown today on Capitol Hill at an unusual 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: congressional hearing. 7 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 2: They're calling them. 8 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 3: The touchy subject of unexplained aerial phenomena, also known as UAPs, 9 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 3: has been all over the news lately, in part because 10 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 3: of reports by military pilots and others who say they've 11 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 3: encountered objects that they cannot explain. Of course, we used 12 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 3: to call these unidentified objects UFOs, but that term has 13 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 3: apparently fallen out of fashion of those connotations with little 14 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 3: green men. A US Congressional committee put UAPs front and 15 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 3: center at a hearing in July. It featured Navy pilots 16 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 3: talking about seeing what they described as aircraft of an 17 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 3: unknown origin, and members of Congress asking whether the Pentagon 18 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 3: should ease public concern by disclosing more about these reports. 19 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 2: How do you know that these were not our aircraft? 20 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 4: Some of the behaviors that we saw in a working area, 21 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 4: we would see these objects being at zero point zero mack, 22 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 4: that's zero air speed over certain pieces of the ground. 23 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 4: So what that means, Just like a river, if you 24 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 4: throw a bobber in, it's going to float downstream. These 25 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 4: objects were staying completely stationary and category four hurricane wins. 26 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 4: These same objects would then accelerate to supersonic speeds one 27 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 4: point one to one point two mock. They would do 28 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 4: so in very erratic and quick behaviors that we don't 29 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 4: I don't have an explanation for. 30 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 3: Many of those unexplained phenomena turn out to have simple explanations, 31 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 3: like weather, balloons or satellites. But the hearing got a 32 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 3: little weird when it veered into age old claims of 33 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 3: a government cover up. A former Air Force intelligence officer 34 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 3: alleged with out evidence that the US has recovered non 35 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 3: human remains from crashed alien spacecraft and has kept it 36 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 3: secret for decades. 37 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 5: Were they I guess human or non human biologics? 38 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 6: Non human? 39 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 7: And that was the assessment of people which re acknowledge 40 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 7: on the program I talk to that are currently still 41 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 7: on the program. 42 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 5: And was this documentary Reverence's video photos eyewitness like, how 43 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 5: would that be determined? 44 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 7: The specific documentation I would have to talk to you 45 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 7: a skiff about. 46 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 3: So why is this all bubbling up now? Is it 47 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 3: a substantive inquiry or just a summertime Washington diversion. Bloomberg's 48 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 3: Congress editor Megan Scully and Pentagon reporter Roxanna Tyrone are 49 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 3: bravely here to help answer that question. 50 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 8: You have your true believers, those in Congress who have 51 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 8: said they've seen UFOs or UAPs and who are really 52 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 8: pushing this, and then you have others who just are curious. 53 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 9: I think they're acting more from a protect the military 54 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 9: perspective than from there might be extraterrestrial life out there. 55 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 3: And later astronomer Seth Shostak tells us how seriously the 56 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 3: government and the rest of US should take claims of 57 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 3: possible visitors from other worlds. 58 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: This is just Okham's razor. 59 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 10: If you have an unknown phenomenon, you can jump to 60 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 10: the conclusion that it must be alien, or you can 61 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 10: consider the possibility maybe it's not alien, it's just something 62 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 10: you've not seen before. 63 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 3: I'm west Kosova today on the Big Take, Congress puts 64 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 3: its eyes on the skies, Rexana, what is the difference 65 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 3: between a UFO and a UAP. 66 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 9: Everybody knows about UFOs, it's unidentified flying objects. The Pentagon 67 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 9: is trying to change the understanding of that because military 68 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 9: aircraft pilots have seen not just flying objects, but things 69 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 9: that they cannot explain. So the term is changing to 70 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 9: unidentified aerial phenomena because it could be anything from flying 71 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 9: objects to flares from satellites. 72 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 3: Megan, why is Congress looking at this so closely right now? 73 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 8: Well, it's been really interesting to watch, and in Congress 74 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 8: that is very divided and where lawmakers can agree on 75 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 8: very little, this UAP issue seems to be one issue 76 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 8: that has some bipartisan support. So you have Chuck Schumer 77 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 8: in the Senate and he's really pushing for requiring the 78 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 8: federal government to collect and also make public this information. 79 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 4: UAPs generate a lot of curiosity for many Americans, and 80 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 4: with that curiosity sometimes comes misinformation. 81 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 8: You're seeing a similar effort underway in the House. Basically, 82 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 8: what Congress wants is they want the Defense Department to 83 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 8: be more forthcoming about the information that they're collecting. Everything 84 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 8: is heavily classified, and their safety concerns. There's national security concerns. 85 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 8: I think the Chinese weather balloon, you know, earlier this 86 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 8: year certainly was kind of a precursor to this broader conversation. 87 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 11: Congress, of course, has the power of. 88 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 8: The purse, so there's this push to know what do 89 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 8: d spending his money on, how it's allocating this, what 90 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 8: defense contractors might be involved. And they're saying, essentially, you know, 91 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 8: the public has a right to know. 92 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 3: And what is it that they think the Pentagon is 93 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 3: doing that they want to know. 94 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 8: Well, it depends on who you ask, right, you have 95 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 8: your true believers, those in Congress who have said they've 96 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 8: seen UFOs or UAPs and who are really pushing this, 97 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 8: and then you have others who just are curious that 98 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 8: there's all these unexplained instances, and it's not just military 99 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 8: pilots who've seen them, it's alsocial pilots. And there's also 100 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 8: concern that, well, if there's stuff in the air that 101 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 8: we don't know what it is, it's incumbent upon us 102 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 8: to know what it is. So our commercial planes aren't 103 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 8: in a position of danger certainly that our military planes aren't. 104 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 8: So it's sort of this complex, multifaceted approach. 105 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 9: The latest report has about a total of five hundred 106 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 9: and ten of these unexplained events, but they also found 107 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 9: that more than half of them are exhibiting unremarkable characteristics. 108 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 2: What does that mean? 109 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 9: It means they're not something that they're worried about, basically, 110 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 9: and then. 111 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 3: They un explain them, but they don't seem so strange 112 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 3: that they're alarming exactly. 113 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 9: And then the other ones are you know, twenty six 114 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 9: of them were drones, one hundred and sixty three of 115 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 9: them were balloons or balloon like entities, and then another 116 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 9: six were clutter. 117 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: So we have these unremarkable events. Have there been remarkable ones? 118 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 9: One that is in particular that's always being brought up. 119 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,239 Speaker 9: It's called the gimbal. It was observed by a fighter 120 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 9: jet that flew off the USOS Roosevelt in Florida, and 121 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 9: it's so far the most unexplained. It just flew by 122 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 9: the plane and it sort of looks like a tic tac, 123 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 9: and it's being brought up as an example of these UAPs. 124 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 12: There's a whole fleet of a book on the afa, 125 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 12: My God, Oh, going again for the wind, they win 126 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 12: the hunting and playing out to the west, Oh bade. 127 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 3: Megan. Earlier this summer, there were some pretty splashy congressional 128 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,239 Speaker 3: hearings where these questions were front and center, and people 129 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 3: came to testify what happened at those hearings. 130 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 8: So the first one was before the House Oversight Committee. 131 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 8: This committee has been torn apart over the last several 132 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 8: months by investigations into Hunter Biden, the President's son, by 133 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 8: investigations into the cause of the COVID pandemic, and it 134 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 8: has been really polarized politically. But you had this UAP 135 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 8: hearing and the members on both sides of the aisle 136 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 8: came together. You know, you had Jamie Raskin and James Comer, 137 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 8: who were on very different sides of the political spectrum, 138 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 8: singing from the same hymn book. 139 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 3: Megan, Whenever we're talking about this, it seems like there's 140 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 3: two different things that we're really looking at. One is 141 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 3: the possibility of some sort of object that you know, 142 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 3: maybe a debris or a weather balloon or maybe even 143 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 3: something that another country has flying in our airspace. And 144 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 3: then there's this whole question of alien life visiting the US, 145 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 3: and they tend to get all lumped in together. How 146 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 3: do you distinguish between those two things when the government 147 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 3: is really looking at this, how much of this is Oh, 148 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,719 Speaker 3: the government is looking for extraterrest in your life or no. 149 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 3: The government is just trying to make sure that there 150 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 3: aren't things in our airspace that we can identify. 151 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 8: At least two of the witnesses were fighter pilots and 152 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 8: another was an intelligence officer who worked for the Pentagon 153 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 8: TA for so you know, they came in with some 154 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 8: legitimate credentials, and what these fighter pilots were saying was 155 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 8: that what they witnessed was something that they had never 156 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 8: seen before. 157 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 4: My name is Ryan Fobbs Graves, and I'm a form 158 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 4: fateen pilot with a decade of service in the US Navy, 159 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 4: including two deployments in Operation and Enduring Freedom in Operation 160 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 4: Inherent Resolve. I have experience advanced UAP firsthand, and I'm 161 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 4: here to voice the concerns of more than thirty commercial 162 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 4: aircrew and military veterans who have confided their similar encounters 163 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 4: with me as we convene here. UAP are in our airspace, 164 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 4: but they are grossly underreported. These sightings are not rare 165 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 4: or isolated. They are routine. Military aircrew and commercial pilots. 166 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 4: Trained observers whose lives depend on accurate identification are frequently 167 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 4: witnessing these phenomena. 168 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 8: There were also asked questions about, you know, did you 169 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 8: see any seams on these objects? And they said no, 170 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 8: sort of the basics of you know, could this be 171 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 8: an aircraft that was built by China or Russia or 172 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 8: some actor somewhere, And by and large they said, you know, 173 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 8: this was unlike anything that we have ever seen. They 174 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 8: had three witnesses to former F eighteen pilots and a 175 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 8: former intelligence officer who had worked for this Pentagon task force, 176 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 8: and he was sort of the primary whistleblower here, the 177 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 8: one who went public with what he had heard. He 178 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 8: himself did not witness any of this phenomena, but he 179 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 8: came forward earlier this summer with information that he had 180 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 8: and filed a whistle blow or complaint, most of which 181 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 8: is classified and we don't know the details of which 182 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 8: he made clear repeatedly throughout the hearing. 183 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 11: The basis of his complaint is fairly mundane. 184 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 8: It's not about seeing little green men or even these 185 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 8: unexplained phenomena. His complaint is essentially based on government spending, 186 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 8: and Congress does not like it when the Defense Department 187 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 8: or any other federal agency spends money without them knowing 188 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 8: about it. What this intelligence officer, David Gresh said, and 189 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 8: what I think perked many members ears up, was misappropriation 190 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 8: of funds. 191 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 13: I mean, I don't want to cut you off, but 192 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 13: how does a program like that get funded? 193 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 7: I will give you generalities, I can get very specific 194 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 7: in a closed session, but a misappropriation of funds. 195 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 13: And does that mean fund Does that mean that there 196 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 13: is money in the budget that is set to go 197 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 13: to a program but it doesn't and it goes to 198 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 13: something else? 199 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 6: Yes, I have specific knowledge of that. Yep. 200 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 13: Do you think US corporations are overcharging for certain tech 201 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 13: they're selling to the US government and that additional money 202 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 13: is going to programs? 203 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 6: Correct? Through something called I read. 204 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 3: What did this program supposedly do? 205 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 9: He was hinting at the fact that they're trying to 206 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 9: basically reconstruct the technologies that they're in possession of, and 207 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 9: also that they're in possession of non human remains. 208 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 5: You've said that the government is in possession of potentially 209 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 5: non human spacecraft. Based on your experience and extensive conversations 210 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 5: with experts, do you believe our government has made contact 211 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,959 Speaker 5: with intelligent extraterrestrials? 212 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 6: Something I can't discuss in public. 213 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 5: Setting if you believe we have crashed craft stated earlier, 214 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 5: do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted 215 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 5: this craft? 216 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 7: As I've stated publicly already in my News Nation interview, 217 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 7: biologics came with some of these recoveries. 218 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 5: Yeah, were they, I guess human or non human? Biologics? 219 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 6: Non human? 220 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 7: And that was the assessment of people which re acknowledge 221 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 7: on the program I talked to that are currently still 222 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 7: on the program. 223 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 3: Did he present any evidence of this? 224 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,719 Speaker 9: He couldn't because it's all classified, and he was very 225 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 9: clear about it. 226 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 3: Megan, how do the members of the committee receive this testimony, 227 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 3: especially some of the allegations about the US and extraterrestrial life. 228 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 8: They listened very intently. Given that the three officials test 229 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 8: fine before them were former military that certainly lent some 230 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 8: credence to what they were saying. But nobody really brushed 231 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 8: aside these allegations. They were taken remarkably seriously. And the panel, 232 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 8: which is a very partisan panel, this was probably, I 233 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 8: would say, of all the hearings that I have watched 234 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 8: this year by this committee, probably the one with the 235 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 8: most bipartisanship. 236 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,439 Speaker 3: Why do you think that they were able to come 237 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 3: together on this. 238 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 11: I think because they're genuinely curious. 239 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 8: There's enough of these incidences, whether they believe that it 240 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 8: is an alien form or whether they believe it is 241 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 8: a potential you know, enemy aircraft, there's enough interest in 242 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 8: it and enough mystery there that I think that members 243 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 8: came with an open mind and actually some good questions. 244 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 3: Roxanna, What is the Pentagon said about all of this? 245 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 3: Obviously these would be some pretty serious charges if the 246 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 3: Pentagon was spending money without telling anybody. 247 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 9: The Pentagon basically sort of brushed aside the allegations and said, 248 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 9: you know, we are not aware of any of these 249 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 9: you know, non human technology or remains. And the Pentagon 250 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 9: really does operate on this mantra it is a national 251 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 9: security issue because it could be various things that could 252 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 9: harm the US military and its operations or impede their operations, 253 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 9: and so I think they're acting more from a protect 254 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 9: the military perspective than from like, you know, there might 255 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 9: be extraterrestrial life out there. 256 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 8: And then members of the committee have also said they've 257 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 8: been denied information from the Pentagon, that they had requested information, 258 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 8: and that the Pentagon rejected their requests. So while some 259 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 8: members of Congress might have more details, maybe members of 260 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 8: the Intelligence Committee. Members of this particular committee were saying 261 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 8: that they weren't getting the information that they demanded. 262 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 3: After the break. Where does the government's inquiry go from here? Roxanne? 263 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 3: In twenty twenty two, the Department of Defense created this 264 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 3: thing called the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, very pentagon 265 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 3: sounding office. It's supposed to investigate and keep records of sightings. 266 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 2: What exactly is. 267 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 9: This so, actually this office was renamed by the Pentagon, 268 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 9: but it was created by Congress in Defense legislation because 269 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 9: they wanted to know more and they wanted to have 270 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 9: a centralized agency at the Pentagon dealing with these issues. 271 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,359 Speaker 9: This office is basically tasked to work with other federal agencies, 272 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 9: including NASA, to review these UAPs and to then file 273 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 9: reports and talk to Congress about what they found. But 274 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 9: they're sort of the central office for these. 275 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 3: Events, Megan, what are the next steps from Congress and 276 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 3: asking for clarity for answers from the Pentagon on this question. 277 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 8: There's this amendment from Senator Schumer that's attached to the 278 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 8: National Defense Authorization Bill, this must pass piece of legislation 279 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 8: that's been enacted for more than six decades now, and 280 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 8: it's in the Senate version of the bill, and it 281 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 8: would essentially ramp up oversight of this area. It would 282 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 8: require the Defense Department to make information public. It would 283 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 8: also give Congress more ability to see what it exactly 284 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 8: it is that the Pentagon is doing. That is in 285 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 8: the Senate version of the bill, it's not in the 286 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 8: House version. So the two chambers need to negotiate differences 287 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 8: in the measure before they come to a final The House. 288 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 9: Measure has a sort of similar provision also an oversight 289 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 9: provision by the Tennessee Republican by Timbership as well. It's 290 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 9: not the same as Senator Schumer's, but in sort of 291 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 9: a similar vein. But they would have to sort of 292 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 9: melt the two versions together. 293 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 3: And if that passed, and say Joe Biden signed it, 294 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 3: what would be different from now. 295 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 8: The Pentagon would be required to declassify some of this 296 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 8: information to make it public. So what you've seen essentially 297 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 8: is many of these incidences get witnessed and then it 298 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 8: isn't until years later that the public becomes aware, whether 299 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:29,959 Speaker 8: it be through a whistleblower or from a story in 300 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 8: the media. So this would essentially force the Pentagon's hand, 301 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 8: but we would be seeing more and more information about 302 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,360 Speaker 8: these unidentified aerial phenomena. 303 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 3: Did anyone express any kind of skepticism on the committee 304 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 3: about these kinds of questions. 305 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 11: No, and I was somewhat surprised by that. 306 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 8: I think that those who maybe skeptics took a route 307 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 8: of asking about this missile appropriation of funds. And we're 308 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 8: more procedural in nature as opposed to talking about what 309 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 8: these objects might be, because remember, these are members of Congress, 310 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 8: and they don't want to isolate voters in their district 311 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 8: who may be true believers in UAPs. 312 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 9: It's going to be a long process because they've just 313 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 9: not talked about this for years. Like so the first 314 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 9: hearing on NEUFOS was in the sixties, and then the 315 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 9: next hearing was last year. I mean, it took forty 316 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 9: years to talk about this in Congress an open session. 317 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 9: So I think it's just like a very slow moving 318 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 9: train here. 319 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 3: Megan Roxanna, thanks so much for coming on the show. 320 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 11: Thanks, it's been a pleasure. 321 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 9: Thanks for having us. 322 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 3: It's novel for Congress to take out the question of 323 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 3: extraterrestrial life, but other organizations have been on the lookout 324 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 3: for years, like the SETI Institute. SETI stands for the 325 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 3: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. It's a nonprofit research organization that's 326 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 3: been around since the nineteen eighties. I asked, said he's 327 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 3: senior astronomer Seth Shostak, what he needed of the hearings. 328 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 10: Of course, the most I should say remarkable thing about 329 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 10: the hearings from me was when this former intelligence officer, 330 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 10: David Grush, claimed that the government had teams of experts 331 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 10: who routinely went out into the field to recover crashed 332 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 10: alien spacecraft and occasionally crashed aliens. 333 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 2: That struck me. 334 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 3: What did you think of that testimony as somebody who 335 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 3: studies this all the time, did you find that intriguing 336 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 3: or did you meet it with a certain amount of skepticism? 337 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 2: A lot of skepticism. 338 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 10: Actually, it's sort of like my next door neighbor claiming 339 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 10: that he's had ghosts living in his attic for the 340 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 10: last twenty years. I mean, you know, it would be 341 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 10: important if true. 342 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 3: What was it about his testimony that struck you as implausible? 343 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 10: He didn't say anything that was impossible. Nothing he said 344 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 10: would violate physics, But he didn't offer any any evidence 345 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 10: to back that up. You just saying it. So regarding 346 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 10: him as an authority, people who like to think the 347 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 10: aliens are here would say, see, that's proof. 348 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,479 Speaker 3: And that was just one part of the hearing. It 349 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 3: certainly was the splashiest, But there was an entirely different 350 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 3: line of questioning, and that was around pilots who have 351 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 3: seen things while they were flying that they just can't explain. 352 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't doubt them. 353 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 10: I don't think that the pilots are deliberately fabricating anything. 354 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 10: I think that they're you know, telling it like it is. 355 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 10: So they see something in the sky and they don't 356 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 10: understand it. Well, there are things in the sky that 357 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 10: maybe they wouldn't understand, right, And there's a whole laundry 358 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 10: list of things that you know are up in our 359 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 10: airspace that have nothing to do with aliens, but you know, 360 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 10: they might not be instantly recognizable, even aircraft at a 361 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 10: distance might not be instantly recognizable. 362 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 3: Well, there had been any number of these things that 363 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 3: the Pentagon was eventually able to identify what they were, 364 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 3: but quite a few of them where they still haven't. 365 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 3: And I think people's minds immediately go to alien spacecraft 366 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 3: or something from outer space. Is that where your mind 367 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 3: immediately goes No. 368 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 10: That's about the last thing I would consider, because this 369 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 10: is just Okham's razor. If you have an unknown phenomenon, 370 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 10: you can jump to the conclusion that it must be alien, 371 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 10: or you can consider the possibility maybe it's not alien, 372 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 10: it's just something you've not seen before. 373 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 3: What are some of the things that you would think 374 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 3: would explain things that experts who are looking on this, 375 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 3: they just can't figure out what they are, especially craft 376 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 3: that seem to move in ways that defy anything that 377 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 3: we currently know exists. 378 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 10: Yeah, that argument is always a little bit suspect in 379 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 10: my eyes, because they say, oh, this thing was moving 380 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 10: and accelerating in ways that you know no earthly craft 381 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 10: could out. Surely if it goes from a parent standstill 382 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 10: to mock eight in a second or two, you would say, well, 383 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 10: that's really remarkable. But how do you know that it's 384 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 10: mock eight? In order to do that, you need to 385 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,719 Speaker 10: know the speed, And in order to know the speed, 386 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 10: you need to know the distance to these objects, right, 387 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 10: because otherwise, I mean, look, you know, a fly buzzes 388 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 10: across my face here and it's moving so fast, you know, 389 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,959 Speaker 10: I say, man, that the fly is going it up 390 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 10: mocked six right, No, it's just very close to me. 391 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 10: So you do need to know the distance. And they 392 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 10: don't have any distance estimates that I've ever seen. And 393 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 10: actually it's quite hard to understand how they would have 394 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 10: any distance estimates. They just have cameras that are giving 395 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 10: you imagery of what's in front of you, but they 396 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,479 Speaker 10: don't know how far in front of you. 397 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 2: It's a crucial bit of information. 398 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 3: When we come back. What would it take to persuade 399 00:22:50,320 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 3: Seth Shostak that extraterrestrials have visited Earth. Another one of 400 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 3: the questions that came up in this hearing was the 401 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 3: idea that the Pentagon has a duty to disclose more 402 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 3: about what they know. This feeling like there's information the 403 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 3: public doesn't get to see, and even the Senate Majority 404 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 3: Leader Chuck Schumer has been pressing that the Pentagon should 405 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 3: tell people more. What do you think of that? 406 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 10: No, I'm all for that. I mean, more information is 407 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 10: not going to be dangerous. I mean, if the aliens 408 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 10: were really some sort of threat, if there were something 409 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 10: that the Department of Defense would have to worry about 410 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 10: I think that there would be real investigation into it. 411 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 10: But I don't notice that United Airlines is canceling any 412 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 10: flights because it doesn't know what's up in our airspace 413 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 10: and they would too much liability fly around if there 414 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 10: are alien craft that haven't filed a flight plan. So 415 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 10: I think that all speaks to the fact that there 416 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 10: really isn't terribly much good evidence, if any good evidence 417 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 10: here for visitation. It's a very appealing idea, and poles 418 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 10: show that the majority of the American public believe it's happening. 419 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 2: But you know, as I say, when I look. 420 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 10: At the activity at Laguardian, I don't see any provision 421 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 10: being made for the fact that, you know, the skies 422 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 10: might not be empty, keep them behind that there are 423 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 10: something like eight thousand satellites in orbit around the Earth 424 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 10: that are making images all the time of what's below them. 425 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,439 Speaker 10: And they don't need to see these things either. Now 426 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 10: you can say, oh, yeah, they do, but the government 427 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 10: just scrubs all that imagery away. But it's not just 428 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 10: the US government that has these satellites. Many governments have them. 429 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 10: And it's hard for me to believe in a worldwide 430 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 10: conspiracy to keep the most important science news of probably 431 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 10: this century from the public. 432 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 3: I think a lot of our listeners might be surprised 433 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 3: to hear the way you're talking about this. You spend 434 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 3: all your time looking for the possibility of life beyond Earth, 435 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 3: and yet you seem to be very skeptical of the 436 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 3: idea that we've already seen it. 437 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 10: Yeah, well, I think the evidence just doesn't support that 438 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 10: conclude very straightforward. I mean, if I thought, and I'm 439 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 10: sure you can ask just about anybody involved in any 440 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 10: field related to this, if they thought that there was 441 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 10: even the one percent chance that what's reported to be 442 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 10: in the sky or you know, photograph with these cameras 443 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 10: and so had an alien origin, it's spent one hundred 444 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 10: percent of their time working on it. But they don't 445 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 10: do that, And I think that that's a real indictment 446 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 10: of the quality of that evidence. 447 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 2: You know, it may. 448 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 10: Puzzle a casual observer, but there's no reason to think 449 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 10: that it's extraterrestrial. 450 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 3: What would you consider to be valid evidence that would 451 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 3: make you think, okay, this is something to look into. 452 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 10: Well, I mean, it could be evidence, just pictorial evidence 453 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 10: such as it's been presented. But the evidence that's been 454 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 10: presented is ambiguous. 455 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 2: Right. 456 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 10: If you had, for example, a very simple thing, some 457 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 10: observatory on the ground, whatever it is is, somebody in 458 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 10: the backyard with a camera, or you know, something a 459 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 10: little more classy observed something flying in the sky. Oh, 460 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 10: lights above Arizona, right, I think, but not just one camera, 461 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 10: but several cameras observing simultaneously to begin with. 462 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 2: That would tell you it's not local. 463 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 10: And knowing the distance between those two observing sites, you know, 464 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 10: you'll probably figure out how far away these things were 465 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 10: and consequently how big they were, So that would give 466 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 10: you some real hard numbers, and that would, I think 467 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 10: change the nature of our assessment of how important those 468 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 10: things are. 469 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 3: In the years that you've spent looking for evidence of 470 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 3: extraterrestrial life, have you ever seen it? 471 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 10: If we had, you'd know about it, right, And besides, 472 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 10: we're not looking to see it, right because the assumption 473 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 10: is Okay. 474 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 2: You know, they're on the order of one hundred. 475 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 10: Billion star systems in the Milky Way galaxy. Most of those, 476 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 10: almost all of those will have planets. So the idea 477 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 10: that there's some other societies out there is neither far 478 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 10: fetched nor implausible. I mean, I think you know, Earth 479 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 10: developed intelligent life. Other planets could do that too. There's 480 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 10: no reason to think that Earth would be the only 481 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 10: place where intelligence would arise. So yeah, the existence of 482 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 10: aliens is really not what's at stake. The question is 483 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 10: is there any good evidence that we've found such a society, 484 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 10: if you will, or the location of such a society, 485 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 10: or in artifact. I mean, you know, you could imagine 486 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 10: seeing some giant construction around a nearby star and you'd say, well, 487 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 10: that doesn't look like something nature made. You could do that, 488 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 10: So you know, I'm not against to the idea in theory, 489 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 10: but when it's simply arguing on the basis of videos 490 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 10: or photographs that can be explained in far more prosaic terms, 491 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 10: then you've got to say that isn't very good evidence. 492 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 3: Seth Shustak, thanks so much for talking with me, My pleasure. 493 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to us here at the Big Take. 494 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 3: It's a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeart Radio. For 495 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 3: more shows from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, podcasts, 496 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen, and we'd love to hear from you. 497 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 3: Email us questions or comments to Big Take at Bloomberg 498 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 3: dot Net. The supervising producer of the Big Take is 499 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 3: Vicky Virgalina. Our senior producer is Katherine Fink. Rebecca Shasson 500 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 3: is our producer. Our associate producer is Sam Gebauer. Raphael 501 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 3: i'm Sieli is our engineer. Our original music was composed 502 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 3: by Leo Sidrin I'm west Kasova. We'll be back tomorrow 503 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 3: with another Big Take.