Speaker 1: What's a family iss your girl to Mika D.
Speaker 2: Mallory and it's your boy, my son the general.
Speaker 1: And we are your host of street politicians, the place
Speaker 1: where the streets and politics to me, my son Lennon,
Speaker 1: y'all say something, America is gone.
Speaker 2: You're now.
Speaker 1: They used to say that boy gone, and.
Speaker 2: That boy gone. He ain't got it all.
Speaker 1: It's gone from street to street, from c to sun
Speaker 1: Shine and sea. It's really a problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna talk about America being crazy because a
Speaker 2: lot going on in America. But today, you know, as
Speaker 2: I drive my kids in school every morning, like I
Speaker 2: normally do, I turn on the radio and I hear
Speaker 2: this conversation between Evany K. Williams to us somebody we
Speaker 2: both know and respect and love, and DJ Envy, who's
Speaker 2: also our brother, and I mean and just the breakfast
Speaker 2: club in general. And I had seen some online chatter
Speaker 2: about the conversation that her and Ayana Vozac had and
Speaker 2: she spoke about not being willing to date a bus
Speaker 2: drive unless he owned the bus company. So you know,
Speaker 2: I didn't even at first to me, because everybody's personal
Speaker 2: preference is their preference. You know, if you don't want
Speaker 2: to date somebody if you feel like you're an educated
Speaker 2: individual and you you know, you going to college, this
Speaker 2: and that, and you want to date people within that realm,
Speaker 2: that should be your prerogative, you know. So I never
Speaker 2: really understood what everybody was mad at. So then I
Speaker 2: heard that she doubled down on the conversation. I didn't
Speaker 2: hear none of that either until today, and they were
Speaker 2: playing clips from both the interviews and then listening to
Speaker 2: her today, and I just was I was taken back
Speaker 2: by I think that in this situation she was tone deaf,
Speaker 2: you know. And and once again, you have your own
Speaker 2: personal preference if you want to date anybody, that's who
Speaker 2: you like today, and it's nothing wrong with it. But
Speaker 2: what the problem was when she started to refer two
Speaker 2: bus drivers as average, when she started to take the
Speaker 2: bus driver's job, and then she started talking about having
Speaker 2: s's and d's in school and average and wanted more.
Speaker 2: And I think the context of that is wrong, because
Speaker 2: I know bus drivers that never had season d's, right.
Speaker 2: I know bus drivers who've been a students and just
Speaker 2: weren't able to come out of school and get different jobs.
Speaker 2: I know bus drivers who who never even went to school.
Speaker 2: And I know people who are in certain positions where
Speaker 2: they seem to have a lot of money that have
Speaker 2: even Season d's, you know, they are very successful. There
Speaker 2: are a lot of people I know that didn't even go
Speaker 2: to school that a millionaires. So I think when she
Speaker 2: was not she was trying to say something, and I
Speaker 2: think maybe it came off wrong, you know, but the
Speaker 2: reality situation is. And then she brought into white supremacy
Speaker 2: and she said, white supremacy leads leaves our people in
Speaker 2: positions to where they only aspired to this and they
Speaker 2: only have that, and that those are true things. But
Speaker 2: both those can't be true. You can't look down or
Speaker 2: seemly look down on the bus driver or the person
Speaker 2: with seas and these and then no white supremacy will
Speaker 2: put you in a position where you have to take
Speaker 2: these quote unquote average jobs. Right, You can't look down
Speaker 2: and speak about white supremacy and not know that white
Speaker 2: supremacy will exalt the average mediocre white man above a
Speaker 2: scholarly black person. So we know those things as this.
Speaker 2: So I think she wasn't listening. She was, and then
Speaker 2: she was wanting her point to be across, and she wasn't.
Speaker 2: I didn't think that she was able to properly verbally
Speaker 2: give her point. And she was given dictionary and it
Speaker 2: was semantics, and she let semantics and this is the dictionary,
Speaker 2: you know, definition for average and all that. And I
Speaker 2: think she didn't understand that she offended people, you know,
Speaker 2: and when you offend people, you have to take that
Speaker 2: into accountability. I said, okay, I said something of the people,
Speaker 2: and she was so doubled down, and she just said,
Speaker 2: I don't care if God didn't agree with me. I
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. And when you take that type
Speaker 2: of position, it just seems tune death. So you know,
Speaker 2: I don't want to criticize, but I was giving my perspective,
Speaker 2: you know, and I'm open to have a conversation or
Speaker 2: dialogue look to get clarity. But it just seems as
Speaker 2: if if we're not careful about how we speak about
Speaker 2: our people, right, if we're not speaking about them in
Speaker 2: an upliftment, even if we even if we're trying to
Speaker 2: teach or we want better for them. But when you
Speaker 2: start telling you just a garbish man, you ain't nothing.
Speaker 2: It doesn't seem it's not done in love or it
Speaker 2: doesn't seem as if it's done in love.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, here's my thing. I understand both perspectives,
Speaker 1: and I understand another thing. Let me just go from
Speaker 1: work my way from the end of your statement to
Speaker 1: the beginning the whole idea of being tone deaf or not,
Speaker 1: you know, not understanding when you offend people. I think
Speaker 1: that's a tough for us to travel down because there
Speaker 1: have been times when we are saying something that we
Speaker 1: believe and we do not care who is offended by
Speaker 1: it and how people feel. So when I say that
Speaker 1: I believe that cleanliness is close to godliness, and I
Speaker 1: refuse to allow people to tell me about You know,
Speaker 1: I understand that some people have body issues and all
Speaker 1: of that. I get that, but I am even the
Speaker 1: people who spoke say, well, they may be depressed and whatnot.
Speaker 1: I'm still at the place where I'm saying, Okay, I
Speaker 1: get it, but you still need to try to keep
Speaker 1: yourself physically clean as best as you can. I know
Speaker 1: people who live on the street that clean themselves up.
Speaker 1: God an uncle who lived on the streets, and he
Speaker 1: used to clean himself up with wipes or whatever he had.
Speaker 1: So I understand that there are different factors, get it,
Speaker 1: but I'm not going to I'm not willing to lower
Speaker 1: my standard of what cleanliness or should be in a realm,
Speaker 1: of course, because everybody has anything. Listen, let me just finish.
Speaker 1: I'm not willing to lower it. And I am not
Speaker 1: going to be bullied or shames into changing my opinion. Right.
Speaker 1: And there are people who are veheminently against what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: upset about it, and have unfollowed me because they told
Speaker 1: me that. They demanded that I delete my post or
Speaker 1: stop saying things and apologize, and I refuse to do it.
Speaker 2: Okay, So can I just want to give one Okay,
Speaker 2: just one thing, and that is one hundred percent right
Speaker 2: if that's how you feel. So what I'm trying to
Speaker 2: say is if you say that, you can't also say
Speaker 2: but I'm not trying to offend people who aren't clean, right,
Speaker 2: and just say I don't care if you said I'm
Speaker 2: not trying to offend people who aren't clean. This is
Speaker 2: what I'm saying. And I'm saying, no, you are people
Speaker 2: who aren't clean, right. You can't all you both of
Speaker 2: those things. That's what I'm trying to say. You can
Speaker 2: have that but that has to be your position.
Speaker 1: Well, at the end of the day, you know, sometimes
Speaker 1: whoever we offend, we offend, and we have to just
Speaker 1: accept the fact that that happens. But I'm not necessarily
Speaker 1: targeting any one person. I'm just saying that this is
Speaker 1: an overall thing that I believe, that it's my standard,
Speaker 1: and that if I have a family member or friend
Speaker 1: who tells me I'm depressed and I'm not really taking
Speaker 1: care of myself properly, I'm going to do everything I
Speaker 1: can not to shame them, but to encourage them to
Speaker 1: do better, right, and whatever, if it's medical, if it's whatever.
Speaker 1: So I'm just saying, you're I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 1: I guess it's semantics to the point that I guess
Speaker 1: everany was trying to make, which I didn't hear any
Speaker 1: of this accession.
Speaker 2: And also you can't you can't follow up that up
Speaker 2: and say, well, I understand that white supremacy has our
Speaker 2: people on the streets and white supremacy has them in
Speaker 2: this situation and mental health, and say all of that.
Speaker 1: But I could argue, even with that point that if
Speaker 1: my son or your son, or anybody else child comes
Speaker 1: to me and says, well, the black man has it hard,
Speaker 1: and the black man has been through so much, and
Speaker 1: white supremacy, this and that and the third. That doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that I'm gonna be like, Okay, well I get it,
Speaker 1: and therefore you can go and be average, mediocre, shoot guns,
Speaker 1: kill people, scam, lie, cheat, go to So I'm still
Speaker 1: going to hold you to a certain standard.
Speaker 2: But with those things, that's what I'm saying. If he
Speaker 2: comes to you, it's a different conversation.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, But I'm sure are You're not gonna.
Speaker 2: Give him the excuses for why he should be mediocre.
Speaker 2: So it's understanding the reasons why these things ain't happening,
Speaker 2: and then't say it's his fault.
Speaker 1: But I am sure. I'm sure though that the bus
Speaker 1: driver whomever it is that she's talking about, has approached
Speaker 1: her and tried to, you know, see what's up or whatever,
Speaker 1: and she probably turned down certain individuals like that. Now,
Speaker 1: I thought what was hilarious was a video that a
Speaker 1: Yalla van Zant did and she didn't get to finish
Speaker 1: the video, or maybe she did, but I saw the
Speaker 1: tagline because she got distracted by some of chin hair,
Speaker 1: so she never finished the video, but it looked like
Speaker 1: she was about to talk about the situation again, and
Speaker 1: on the bottom it said, the question is whether or
Speaker 1: not the bus driver will date you. I and so
Speaker 1: that brings me to my mid So I'm saying that
Speaker 1: I see points in all sides, right, because I too
Speaker 1: do not want to date anybody that I have to
Speaker 1: take them and dust them off and create so and so.
Speaker 1: But who am I to assume that a bus driver
Speaker 1: would be that there might be a bus driver out here.
Speaker 1: But I get her concept, I get what she's trying
Speaker 1: to say. I do think to your point that it
Speaker 1: went in the wrong direction, because the point is that
Speaker 1: there are a lot of successful women who are constantly
Speaker 1: having to deal with people that we meet that can't
Speaker 1: really do much for us and emotionally or financially, and
Speaker 1: it is a struggle that we face. But the bigger
Speaker 1: struggle that I know exists is having the rich man
Speaker 1: or the man not in my life. So let me
Speaker 1: be clear, because I had and still am very very
Speaker 1: dear and close to a very wealthy man that I
Speaker 1: was with for over ten years and he treated me
Speaker 1: like a queen. It just time, you know, life happens
Speaker 1: and people go in their separate directions. But I can't
Speaker 1: sing and say anything nasty by him. However, I have
Speaker 1: been approached by many men who have extreme resources, and
Speaker 1: they're narcissists, they're nasty, their liars, their cheaters, they're all
Speaker 1: types of things. So I wouldn't typecast anybody, because I
Speaker 1: know bus drivers that are amazing in terms of how
Speaker 1: they love their wives, their families, how they stand up
Speaker 1: in their communities. And I do believe that as a woman,
Speaker 1: a part of what makes us who we are is
Speaker 1: the ability to help build an empire with your man
Speaker 1: who might be a bus driver, and so long as
Speaker 1: he has the ambition, he don't got to own the
Speaker 1: bus company at the time, but it certainly should be
Speaker 1: a goal of ours. And I should be able to
Speaker 1: look at this man and say he has the potential,
Speaker 1: the drive, the passion, the work, you know, work hard,
Speaker 1: all those things, the work ethic, and me, with my
Speaker 1: skills and my belief in him and all the things
Speaker 1: that I have together, we can own the bus company.
Speaker 1: That's the way that I see it. So just to
Speaker 1: be clear, I don't I wouldn't say that the only
Speaker 1: way our data bus driver is if he owns the
Speaker 1: bus company. But I do understand the challenge that many
Speaker 1: successful black women are facing where it is very difficult
Speaker 1: for us to find people who are compatible with us.
Speaker 1: So all I was saying is that there's no one
Speaker 1: clear cut answer except that, yes, if the bus driver
Speaker 1: approached me and I saw in him the passion and
Speaker 1: all the things that I am looking for in a man,
Speaker 1: one hundred percent, because I know that I as a
Speaker 1: black woman who is strong and skillful and has resources,
Speaker 1: I know that the partner that I find that has
Speaker 1: the wherewithal and the passion and everything again the work
Speaker 1: ethic to build with me. We can own not just
Speaker 1: one bus company, when we can own the bus company,
Speaker 1: the private car service, the this, the that, and all
Speaker 1: types of things if we can build. So I feel
Speaker 1: differently about that. But I know it's a challenge to
Speaker 1: find compatible men, not just black, not just whatever, compatible
Speaker 1: men who also are of sound character for us today.
Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I get it. I get it, So listen to you
Speaker 2: gotta listen to the interview, and then you have a
Speaker 2: better understanding just my position or what it is because
Speaker 2: because I agree.
Speaker 1: Disagree with your position.
Speaker 2: No, no, I'm not saying we or not.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, so you have content that a better understanding.
Speaker 1: And I'm saying that whether I have a listen to
Speaker 1: the video or not, I hear what you're saying. But
Speaker 1: I do think that there are moments when you say
Speaker 1: something and you mean it and you don't care what happens,
Speaker 1: and that's fine, and.
Speaker 2: That's what That's what I'm saying. I think that that
Speaker 2: should have been more of a position in this situation.
Speaker 2: I think that she she she brought into so many
Speaker 2: different factors and she she brought in a conversation that
Speaker 2: was really an individual choice, right, and she made she
Speaker 2: brought in that, and she brought different factors that didn't
Speaker 2: coincide with her original point was. And I think that's
Speaker 2: what it was to me. So you if you if
Speaker 2: your preference is you don't want to date the bus
Speaker 2: driver and you want to date this type of individual,
Speaker 2: that's fine, and nobody can't take you from that, and
Speaker 2: nobody can make you you don't.
Speaker 1: Want to day Yeah, I mean, okay, well you know
Speaker 1: some people, some people don't feel as fine. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I have not had a chance to sit and listen
Speaker 1: to the interviews, because I have been spending a great
Speaker 1: deal of time really trying to understand the full situation
Speaker 1: with Jordan Neely. And I don't mean the full situation
Speaker 1: as in he was choked by a white man and
Speaker 1: held down by to other individuals on the train. That's
Speaker 1: understanding all of that is one part, but understanding more
Speaker 1: about who he is and more over, trying to understand
Speaker 1: why at this point, which, by the way, for those
Speaker 1: who are listening and those who are watching, we are
Speaker 1: taping our shows, taping street politicians. Excuse me, we are
Speaker 1: taping street politicians days before you all will see it.
Speaker 1: I talk about this all the time, but repetition is important.
Speaker 1: So we filmed, you know when our guests are available,
Speaker 1: and our schedules and what have you. And therefore, as
Speaker 1: we are sitting down today, there's still not been an
Speaker 1: indictment of the man who is seen in the video
Speaker 1: that is now viral choking Jordan Mealy to death, nor
Speaker 1: the other two individuals, one who's a person of color
Speaker 1: and another white man who held him down while he
Speaker 1: was being killed. And so at this point we're speaking
Speaker 1: from that perspective, and so we don't know the name
Speaker 1: of this formal marine, which is interesting because if people
Speaker 1: now know that he's a former marine, and I see
Speaker 1: it in actual articles, news articles, it says that he's
Speaker 1: a former marine, that means they have to know who
Speaker 1: he is, because you can't say that somebody is a
Speaker 1: former marine if you don't know who they are. You
Speaker 1: gotta know. And for whatever reason, the media has refused
Speaker 1: to put out his name as of today. Why why
Speaker 1: do they not have a problem putting out our names
Speaker 1: all the time, telling you everything about our background down
Speaker 1: to when we was two years old and spit on
Speaker 1: a sidewalk.
Speaker 2: That's the fact. You know, the situation was crazy. Like
Speaker 2: you said, I really just wanted to understand, and like
Speaker 2: I was saying I was saying to you earlier, the
Speaker 2: broader conversation for me is what do we as just civilians,
Speaker 2: you know, just just people from the community. What are
Speaker 2: we just allowing to happen in our communities? Right? The
Speaker 2: fact that a man was just sitting there for fifteen minutes,
Speaker 2: just choking another man, I don't know what.
Speaker 1: For fifteen minutes, people, it was five okay.
Speaker 2: Well, even if you just choking somebody for five minutes,
Speaker 2: Like at some point when you see, like it's a
Speaker 2: lot of homelessness in the train, and it's a lot
Speaker 2: of mental health on the train. And I don't know
Speaker 2: if he needed to be subdued. I don't know if
Speaker 2: he did something that, you know, people felt threatened. And
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that the immediate you're holding over him
Speaker 2: and putting them, but when you start choking somebody, and
Speaker 2: as an ex marine, you know that you could take
Speaker 2: their life. You know, you have a skill set and
Speaker 2: understanding about these particular holes that you could take somebody's life, right,
Speaker 2: And then people looking on and the people who were
Speaker 2: there with him, I just don't know how somebody that say, okay,
Speaker 2: just get off and just get up his neck. We
Speaker 2: got him, you know, just hold him, Let's hold him here,
Speaker 2: don't choke him. We don't. We're not trying to kill. Like,
Speaker 2: I don't understand why there's no more, no more of
Speaker 2: value for life. There's there's a less value for life.
Speaker 2: There's a less value for hurting and harming people. People
Speaker 2: are getting numb to hurting and harming people. They become
Speaker 2: accustomed to this level of aggression and violence. And it's
Speaker 2: just like, I want to know, how do we get
Speaker 2: so far from consciousness, you know. That's that's the question
Speaker 2: for me. It's just like people hold cameras. They can
Speaker 2: sit there and see somebody, damn the choking to death,
Speaker 2: and you just holding a camera. You ain't saying what
Speaker 2: I'm just saying. But when the process of him getting
Speaker 2: to choke to death there was a process that got
Speaker 2: did you understand?
Speaker 1: So I I agree with you that the videotape in
Speaker 1: is triggering for me, right sometimes. But I do have
Speaker 1: a different perspective on this because the person who was
Speaker 1: video on, who had a very steady hand, is a journalist, right,
Speaker 1: who reports the news, and and he or she they
Speaker 1: I think it's a he I have the only account
Speaker 1: of what took place, right, And sometimes when you are
Speaker 1: actually in the incident, when you when you are a
Speaker 1: party to the incident happening, your statement of what took
Speaker 1: place is one scrutinized and potentially debunked and what have you.
Speaker 1: And also you don't know all everything that's going on,
Speaker 1: can't see everything, and don't necessarily have all of the
Speaker 1: facts straight either, right. So I appreciate the fact that
Speaker 1: this man or this person, this journalist, was able to
Speaker 1: get a clear cut video and also has made a
Speaker 1: very clear, at this point unchallenged statement about what took place,
Speaker 1: which is he said that Jordan Neely got on the
Speaker 1: train and said, I'm hungry, I'm thirsty, I'm tired, and
Speaker 1: I don't care if I go to jail with some
Speaker 1: expletives in the middle of all of that, right, and
Speaker 1: then he took his jacket and threw it to the ground,
Speaker 1: and he said that the white man walked up behind
Speaker 1: his back and grabbed him, took him down to the ground,
Speaker 1: and then we see what happened on the video thereafter.
Speaker 2: That's crazy.
Speaker 1: So this is what he said, right, So I great
Speaker 1: with you about the video thing. I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: make sure that we put into proper context. Why it's
Speaker 1: also important that we have a very neutral, uninvolved person
Speaker 1: who is just filming and just reporting on what took
Speaker 1: place to prove what I believe already, because and I
Speaker 1: am listen my text messages from people sending me screenshots
Speaker 1: of other people's text mess because everybody knows not to
Speaker 1: text me and try to make excuses for what happened
Speaker 1: to Jordan Neely. But people are having conversations. The amount
Speaker 1: of people who are devastated, stressed out, scared to death
Speaker 1: and everything else of the train because of the crazy
Speaker 1: stuff that's going on. People getting spit in the face,
Speaker 1: houseless or unhoused individuals, or people in general because you
Speaker 1: don't know if they're unhoused or not, exposing themselves, hitting people,
Speaker 1: throwing people in front of the train, on the train tracks,
Speaker 1: stabbing people. All of these things are real. They're real concerns,
Speaker 1: and they're real problems. And I see people in my
Speaker 1: comments who are like, you don't know anything about the
Speaker 1: train unless you live in New York and ride. Y'all
Speaker 1: been riding the train my whole entire life. Okay, don't
Speaker 1: ride the train today, partially not even because of myself,
Speaker 1: but because y'all have pretty much banned me from going
Speaker 1: on the train since you know, at this point, people
Speaker 1: know me. And if I'm by myself, if I were
Speaker 1: two or three people and we need to get from
Speaker 1: one stop to the next in Manhattan, there's no way
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be like, oh, we're gonna get in an
Speaker 1: uber and either pay the money or deal with the
Speaker 1: traffic we get on the train. But by myself, I
Speaker 1: rode the train, and you know that up until maybe
Speaker 1: about a year or so ago, well around COVID, I
Speaker 1: was riding the train up and down, taking the Metro
Speaker 1: North to the Then I would get on and by
Speaker 1: the way, people on the Metro North be bugging too.
Speaker 1: But taking the Metro North and then getting on the
Speaker 1: regular train to cross over the shuttles, walking through forty
Speaker 1: second Street, walking through a lot of different places and
Speaker 1: taking the number five than the two train uptown or whatever.
Speaker 1: I did that. So you can't tell me I know
Speaker 1: the trains are crazy. What I'm saying is that you
Speaker 1: don't get to kill somebody because we know how the
Speaker 1: trains are. Well, we know how the trains are in quotes,
Speaker 1: we know how the trains are. So therefore you get
Speaker 1: to kill a person because he was saying things you
Speaker 1: didn't like and screaming in a way that you felt uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: If that's the case, fuck it, people could just do whatever.
Speaker 1: I've been making the case all day. If that's the case,
Speaker 1: then we should not lock Pooky up for shooting John John,
Speaker 1: because John John is dangerous. He'd done been to jail,
Speaker 1: he'dne made me afraid. The community is it is violence everywhere.
Speaker 1: Everybody is scared, and he said some ship maybe to
Speaker 1: me about me, or he just got came outside and
Speaker 1: was like, I'm a fuck everybody up, wait till you
Speaker 1: see me, And then I just why can't I show him?
Speaker 2: No, You're right, I will. I will say that in
Speaker 2: these times, if a person got on the train and
Speaker 2: set all of that and looked kind of deranged, right,
Speaker 2: I would have probably I would have been aware, right,
Speaker 2: and I wouldn't have been I wouldn't have been opposed
Speaker 2: to somebody holding him, restraining him to make sure he
Speaker 2: didn't have a gun that he played in an open
Speaker 2: fire on the train. I wouldn't have been opposed to that, right,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I would definitely would not have
Speaker 2: been opposed because if you get on the train and
Speaker 2: we've seen people shooting up the trains and all that,
Speaker 2: so if you get on there and you speaking and
Speaker 2: you saying you know your foot well going to jail.
Speaker 2: I got to make sure you don't gotta go. Okay,
Speaker 2: but I don't need to choke. What I'm trying to
Speaker 2: say is hear you don't need to choke you and it
Speaker 2: hurts you to make like once I grab you and
Speaker 2: I'm like, yo, somebody make sure you don't got done
Speaker 2: in this podcast, because maybe that's what but choking a
Speaker 2: man to death who has done no physical harm to
Speaker 2: anybody who has just said words, just because you you
Speaker 2: harm that man, you assaulted that man, You're to see
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, and then you took his life, and
Speaker 2: so you killed that man.
Speaker 1: And that's and that's what I'm saying. I'm saying so
Speaker 1: that we're clear that maybe you did feel threatened, because
Speaker 1: I understand that the train is threatening, I get it.
Speaker 1: All I'm saying is that the fact that that man
Speaker 1: is dead and I don't have any example of physical
Speaker 1: brutal violence, bloodshed, all the bloodshed, I can't accept it.
Speaker 1: Saying just be talking about mental health. And it is
Speaker 1: Mental Health Awareness Month and we're focused on mental health
Speaker 1: for the rest of the month. And obviously mental health
Speaker 1: is at the center of this discussion. But so many
Speaker 1: others shooting in Atlanta, I mean, just too many things happening.
Speaker 1: We are having a gain come on, and I think
Speaker 1: we should take the rest of our time to bring
Speaker 1: our guests on because we run our mouse too much
Speaker 1: and we never get to do some of the stuff
Speaker 1: we're supposed to do on the show. So let's introduce
Speaker 1: the guests into the conversation. So we have been joined
Speaker 1: by yesterday. That's really really someone important to me in
Speaker 1: my life because he is helping me to keep my
Speaker 1: mind in order with all of the just wild things
Speaker 1: that's happening in our society. You know that I have
Speaker 1: been doing trauma work unfortunately for a long, long long time,
Speaker 1: and you've joined me on this journey and it is
Speaker 1: mentally taxing not to mention all the personal stuff that
Speaker 1: we have to deal with in our lives. And so
Speaker 1: my doctor is joining us today and that's doctor Michael Practice.
Speaker 1: So let me just tell you about how much of
Speaker 1: a boss he is because beyond just being you know,
Speaker 1: which I think is pretty important, just being my doctor,
Speaker 1: but he has some other very very impressive thing that
Speaker 1: he has done. He's a psychiatrist by trade and has
Speaker 1: also had deep study in neurology. So psychiatrists and a neurologist,
Speaker 1: which you know, we folks don't understand that it's important
Speaker 1: to understand the brain and how things operate and what
Speaker 1: triggers people in order to be a good psychiatrist and
Speaker 1: doctor dealing with mental health issues. And then he's worked
Speaker 1: with the New York State Commission of Correction and so
Speaker 1: we know, we know how serious it is that we
Speaker 1: have people in the system in New York who are
Speaker 1: black black men working with and you know, trying to
Speaker 1: help make some changes within the system. He's worked at
Speaker 1: Saint John's Hospital, has been in the psych emergency room department,
Speaker 1: and has a host of clients, including young children. So
Speaker 1: I want folks to know that we didn't just go
Speaker 1: find Ta Meeka's doctor, who's just the regular guy that
Speaker 1: you know, does some things. Know, this man is celebrated, decorated,
Speaker 1: and has a very long history in dealing with the
Speaker 1: mental health of so many people and especially us as
Speaker 1: African Americans. So I'm proud today to introduce to some
Speaker 1: people my son and I know you well. Nigaul Praz
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Peace King, How you feeling today.
Speaker 3: Man, feeling enthusiastic?
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's that's good. I want to feel like
Speaker 2: that I've been There's been so much going on, you know,
Speaker 2: I want to ask you a question. Being at his
Speaker 2: Mental Health Awareness month, you know, and we just had
Speaker 2: this situation on the train that just happened with Jordan
Speaker 2: nearly and the train station seems like it is overloaded
Speaker 2: with mental health issues, you know, and people who have
Speaker 2: mental health issues. It's like so many people on the trains.
Speaker 2: That's one of the major things that we talk about,
Speaker 2: and we hear a bond the trains. What is your
Speaker 2: take on.
Speaker 1: Can we also just say, because I want to make
Speaker 1: sure that people do not believe or do not walk
Speaker 1: away with the narrative that just the people that you
Speaker 1: see sleeping on the train yelling out people who are
Speaker 1: on housed that they are the only ones that are
Speaker 1: having mental health issues on the train. You can see
Speaker 1: people who are professionally dressed and look like they got
Speaker 1: it going on, who are also dealing with mental health challenges.
Speaker 3: Sure. Yeah, mental health challenges is a very broad category
Speaker 3: and it's a spectrum. It goes from you know, highly
Speaker 3: functioning people who may just have a little bit of
Speaker 3: anxiety down to people with significant what we call serious
Speaker 3: and persistent mental illness. One the majority of people with
Speaker 3: mental illness are not aggressive. They actually are disproportionately victimized,
Speaker 3: So it's really important that we maintain compassion. These are
Speaker 3: individuals who have impaired thinking, their thought process, their ability
Speaker 3: to solve problems is impaired, and so what you'll find
Speaker 3: is more basic instincts like wanting to be warm versus
Speaker 3: being cold, wanting to feel dry versus being wet. And
Speaker 3: so a place like a subway is a dormitory in
Speaker 3: a sense, it's a shelter as compared to being on
Speaker 3: the street. So what we could do is use these
Speaker 3: places that naturally attract folks who are having difficulty making decisions,
Speaker 3: and we can put people in those places to act
Speaker 3: as monitors, act as folks who could potentially provide a service.
Speaker 3: And so we should number one, think about bringing the
Speaker 3: service to the people because services has already existed in
Speaker 3: New York and so there is no shortage of doctors.
Speaker 3: Now there may be a weight or an appointment, but
Speaker 3: anyone who sort of really wants mental health and has
Speaker 3: the ability to pay for it can get it. So
Speaker 3: now we're talking about people who either don't have the
Speaker 3: ability to pay for it or don't have access to it.
Speaker 3: Where we need to be looking to lower the burden
Speaker 3: of access to care, moving care to places where people
Speaker 3: are to homeless, shelters to bus terminals, subway stations, et cetera.
Speaker 1: So you're saying that you support having actual practitioners if
Speaker 1: you will in the train station, maybe riding the trains,
Speaker 1: to work with and talk to individuals. And now the
Speaker 1: next question is going to be I'm sure because we've
Speaker 1: got a certain type of audience. Some of them are
Speaker 1: semi or want to be bougie or very bougie, all
Speaker 1: the spectrum. They will say that what happens to that
Speaker 1: mental health professional if a problem breaks out? How do
Speaker 1: they deal with their own safety?
Speaker 3: Sure, the way we have dealt with safety issues involving
Speaker 3: mental health employees of folks who deliver care is with
Speaker 3: law enforcement. That's not necessarily the best tool, but that
Speaker 3: is what is existing today. If you go into a
Speaker 3: psychiatric emergency room and you're unable to contain yourself, security
Speaker 3: will physically help you out of that situation, and so
Speaker 3: it does. Unfortunately, sometimes folks will need hands on. But
Speaker 3: I would feel more comfortable if that the entire interaction
Speaker 3: was based on a mental health call rather than a
Speaker 3: criminal call. I think the police officers may have a
Speaker 3: slightly different attitude toward training, toward responding toward emotional crisis,
Speaker 3: which is different than law enforcement, where you want right
Speaker 3: to force a person to comply. Many times people having
Speaker 3: a mental health crisis aren't thinking clearly, and they don't
Speaker 3: even understand the demands that you're putting on them. They
Speaker 3: either don't understand it or in some way they're paranoid
Speaker 3: or having some other kind of interpretation of what you're saying,
Speaker 3: and so in their mind they may be responding appropriately.
Speaker 3: And if your goal as a police officer is to
Speaker 3: simply enforce the commands that you're giving, you're going to
Speaker 3: have a lot of conflict and hurt people. So I'm
Speaker 3: advocating for bringing services to places where you find people
Speaker 3: who need those services. That's what I'm advocating for. The
Speaker 3: specifics of that will need to be flushed out.
Speaker 2: So when we look at you know, when we look
Speaker 2: at this situation in general, right and we see we
Speaker 2: from the reports that we were getting, what happened to
Speaker 2: the man? They said, they say that he came onto
Speaker 2: the train and he was very all right. He said
Speaker 2: he was hungry, he said he was tired, and he
Speaker 2: then Kivy went to jail. And how would you tell
Speaker 2: just the average citizen, because a lot of average citizens
Speaker 2: are just scared, you know, when you see someone in
Speaker 2: that mental capacity like, we don't we're not trained, So
Speaker 2: sometimes we might need to hear from people like yourself
Speaker 2: that would know what to do in that situation. What
Speaker 2: would you advise in situations like that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have a couple of thoughts. One is it
Speaker 3: is unfortunate that people are so scared, but part of
Speaker 3: that is our fault. When we let the most needed,
Speaker 3: the most mentally unstable people go without services and go
Speaker 3: untreated in our community, and they act out as they're
Speaker 3: trying to put two and two together, it does impact
Speaker 3: the citizens of that neighborhood and then they do react
Speaker 3: in a way that is more scared. But that is
Speaker 3: largely on our failure to address the undercare of these people.
Speaker 3: So let's get that point out there first. So people
Speaker 3: are now reacting to the fact that they know their
Speaker 3: untreated mental health individuals wandering around without access to care.
Speaker 2: That should.
Speaker 3: Make all of us a little hesitant. So what you
Speaker 3: want to do is always be a safe distance from someone.
Speaker 3: And what I would like is for us for our
Speaker 3: citizens to have access to be able to have a
Speaker 3: number to call. Maybe you know, we say see something,
Speaker 3: say something, Maybe we make a big push to help
Speaker 3: our folks who seem to be in need.
Speaker 2: If you see.
Speaker 3: Someone who seems to be having an emotional meltdown, you
Speaker 3: can call this number or you can do that and
Speaker 3: people who are competent in that area can respond or
Speaker 3: could respond.
Speaker 1: Would you approach a person like that? Just you being?
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you. So you go up to
Speaker 1: young kids in the park that could be fighting. It
Speaker 1: looks like it's going to get violent, and you may
Speaker 1: go up to them and try to help to de
Speaker 1: escalate we in that situation, do you or any situations
Speaker 1: like that, would you feel comfortable approaching them? Or would
Speaker 1: you try to just keep everybody else around calm to
Speaker 1: let that, you know, to maybe get off the train
Speaker 1: at the next stop, Like, how would you handle it?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I think you know, those kind of common sense solutions
Speaker 3: are what I would advocate for. But I guess the
Speaker 3: starting position that here's another human being who is in
Speaker 3: distress us, and there's nothing wrong with asking, hey, is
Speaker 3: there something? Is there something I can do? Are you okay?
Speaker 3: There's nothing wrong with having a conversation from a safe distance,
Speaker 3: which is about how the distance for you to get hit.
Speaker 3: You want to sort of stay out out of that
Speaker 3: striking range. So I don't find there's anything wrong with
Speaker 3: if it seems appropriate to see if a person needs help.
Speaker 3: I don't see anything wrong with if that person responds
Speaker 3: to you in a positive way. You got to be careful.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I talk to folks as a professional and they
Speaker 3: start to escalate, and then I know to back away,
Speaker 3: which is sort of opposite of what sort of law
Speaker 3: enforcement and other people are trained. When you resist, they
Speaker 3: sort of push up the force, whereas when folks with
Speaker 3: mental health issues push back, we really back away and
Speaker 3: give them room. Yeah, I would encourage people around to
Speaker 3: calm down, maybe give this man some room to see
Speaker 3: if he would get off at the next stop. I
Speaker 3: don't think there's anything wrong with saying something kind or
Speaker 3: hair Are you okay?
Speaker 2: Oh no? So I was about to ask two questions.
Speaker 2: There was there was a procedure of process that you
Speaker 2: were discussing with us before we started. I want you
Speaker 2: to go into that because I think that was pretty
Speaker 2: much brilliance. And maybe this is kind of along the
Speaker 2: same lines. But I think since we see, like you
Speaker 2: said that the train station is sort of like a
Speaker 2: dormitory people who are experiencing mental health. Why it would
Speaker 2: be common sense to me that we have mental health
Speaker 2: workers within the MTA and stops alone. We got so
Speaker 2: many cops, right. The thing is this, we we America
Speaker 2: has said that we could just put cops everywhere and
Speaker 2: it's gonna stop very So if we got three cops,
Speaker 2: why not to have one cop or maybe two cops
Speaker 2: in any mental health worker at every station that they
Speaker 2: control me? Because people are experiencing mental health more then
Speaker 2: they have it. Then the violence and the point most
Speaker 2: of those things are as a result, in my mind
Speaker 2: or what I believe, as a result of people dealing
Speaker 2: with mental health issues. So do you think that would be,
Speaker 2: you know, a good solution.
Speaker 3: I think that would be an excellent solution in an
Speaker 3: in a more ideal setting. And I don't want to
Speaker 3: be jaded, but the reality is, the budgets, from my understanding,
Speaker 3: you know, don't have a lot of extra room to
Speaker 3: hire a bunch of new folks. Would that be better?
Speaker 3: It would be better, But there are some solutions and
Speaker 3: ideas that are currently in place. If we approached and
Speaker 3: looked at the laws, maybe a little bit differently. So
Speaker 3: I'll tell you New York is different than most states
Speaker 3: and that we have designated psychiatric emergency room called CPEP
Speaker 3: or Comprehensive Psychiatric Right Emergency Programs. These are places, they're dedicated, freestanding.
Speaker 3: There's one at Bellevue, King's County and the Bronx, multiple
Speaker 3: places throughout the city, all through upstate New York. They're
Speaker 3: based upon the population to serve a certain number of people.
Speaker 3: These facilities have the ability to evaluate people twenty four
Speaker 3: to seven and keep people in the hospital if and
Speaker 3: give them the care that they need. The problem is
Speaker 3: how do you get someone there? And the way that
Speaker 3: the laws set now, and this already exists, if a
Speaker 3: family member or I can even do this for one
Speaker 3: of my patients, I could write what's called a pickup
Speaker 3: order saying that I empower the who whatever law enforcement
Speaker 3: officer comes across this person, that I put on the
Speaker 3: paper to take that person to the nearest psychiatric emergency room, right,
Speaker 3: and that pickup order already empowers any law enforcement agency
Speaker 3: to not only pick the person up, but take them
Speaker 3: to get care. The problem is that it's a reactionary law.
Speaker 3: It has to be implemented, and so I've been trying
Speaker 3: to push for the idea to see if we couldn't
Speaker 3: get our mayor to see if in a legal way,
Speaker 3: we can't empower our law enforcement agents already given the
Speaker 3: fact that this is a crisis, and therefore identifying someone
Speaker 3: who's clearly in an emotional decompensated state can be then
Speaker 3: taken to a psychiatric emergency room. The excuse has been
Speaker 3: they're not committing a crime, I can't arrest them. You
Speaker 3: don't just arrest people. You also, when engaged, can act
Speaker 3: as a transporter to a mental health facility. This already exists,
Speaker 3: and it should be enacted in a proactive way. And
Speaker 3: what you would see is and again officers would need
Speaker 3: more training. More folks would need more training. But as
Speaker 3: you see typical symptoms of someone who's in distress, that
Speaker 3: that police officer will be able to take that person
Speaker 3: into care immediately. You know.
Speaker 1: It's so I'm listening to everything you're saying, and I
Speaker 1: hear it, and it's right right. It sounds right like
Speaker 1: we've got to be able to transport people, which I
Speaker 1: guess was the initial concept that Eric Adams, mayor Adams
Speaker 1: and New York was talking about having people remove from
Speaker 1: you know wherever outsleeping outside outside of businesses on the
Speaker 1: train and taken to a facility so that they can
Speaker 1: get help. Sometimes the way in which Mayor Adams speaks
Speaker 1: his tone, people don't like it, you know, and even
Speaker 1: I have felt uncomfortable with the way in which things
Speaker 1: are set and how you lead, right because people want
Speaker 1: to hear compassion, especially when you're talking about very very
Speaker 1: very vulnerable, a very very vulnerable part of the population,
Speaker 1: which sometimes it could be black men that we're talking
Speaker 1: about in general that are not unhoused, or you know,
Speaker 1: black children or whatever. We want you to lead with
Speaker 1: so much compassion first, and then get to the part
Speaker 1: about is what are the steps so I hear you.
Speaker 1: What I'm challenged with is how the systems in America
Speaker 1: and in New York and across this country have failed
Speaker 1: black and brown people so much. And because we are
Speaker 1: the ones who have the most visible signs of all
Speaker 1: the things, you know, and that's everything, every statistic, every
Speaker 1: health concern, every challenge, we have the most visible because
Speaker 1: we have the most poverty, and therefore most of us
Speaker 1: are the ones on the train having the mental health issues,
Speaker 1: needing housing. And what happened It is very scary for
Speaker 1: people to even consider supporting a plan for the same
Speaker 1: officers who even when folks are not having mental health
Speaker 1: to have to engage them. So it's like, how do
Speaker 1: we ever move the car?
Speaker 3: Sure, So, you know, let's just be really clear, we
Speaker 3: uh as as black folks have survived this genocide attempt,
Speaker 3: you know, throughout throughout history, and we have suffered the
Speaker 3: consequences of you know, systemic racism, and so you do
Speaker 3: see a disproportion of amount of men separated from their
Speaker 3: families and in poverty secondary to hundreds of years of
Speaker 3: just racism and discrimination. When you combine that with the
Speaker 3: fact that due to racism and discrimination, symptoms that are
Speaker 3: presented to individuals who don't usually work with black folks
Speaker 3: are largely misinterpreted, and you see higher rates of accurate
Speaker 3: diagnosis incorrect medications. They tend to over prescribe for black boys.
Speaker 3: Any child that's in any system, whether it's shild protect
Speaker 3: or foster care, any or whatever, is four times more
Speaker 3: likely to be on a psychotropic medication. Unnecessarily. I spent
Speaker 3: a lot of my time taking kids off of medication.
Speaker 3: And so that's the consequence of race. The current crisis
Speaker 3: that we have requires us to do something. And what
Speaker 3: I am proposing is, yes, our police officers have many, many,
Speaker 3: many challenges, and it is yet another burden. But what
Speaker 3: I'm saying to me is this, this system is already
Speaker 3: in place, and we can turn this on today. This
Speaker 3: would serve to bring people. What I'm advocating for is
Speaker 3: if you see someone in distress, and again these officers
Speaker 3: would need to be trained on this, and it seems reasonable,
Speaker 3: you would bring them to the SEAPEP and then the
Speaker 3: officer is gone. Now the patient is in my care.
Speaker 3: Now I can go in and do a psychiatric evaluation.
Speaker 3: And if you don't need to be in a psychiatric facility,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to keep you there, but that should
Speaker 3: be where that's where the mental health people are.
Speaker 2: And so.
Speaker 3: Or maybe we say, hey, it looks like your primary
Speaker 3: issue actually is medical. A lot of times there's sometimes
Speaker 3: there's underlying medical conditions that you're unaware of. When somebody
Speaker 3: has on ten coats and ten pair of pants, you
Speaker 3: don't know what their skin looks like, you don't know
Speaker 3: what that diabetic foot looks like, and they're confused and disoriented. Right, So,
Speaker 3: people who are acting in an unsafe way need to
Speaker 3: be evaluated and right now we have a system in
Speaker 3: place that could function to bring those folks in then
Speaker 3: be handed off to mental health professionals from SEAPEPS. And again,
Speaker 3: my SEAPEP directors are probably going to be upset with me,
Speaker 3: but it would be it would be more funding into
Speaker 3: the SEAPEP to be able to respond to these But
Speaker 3: from there then we can send you to a shelter,
Speaker 3: we can send you to you to a rehab, we
Speaker 3: can get you on you know, if you need replacement
Speaker 3: for heroin addiction. All of that comes from SEAPEPS and
Speaker 3: it already exists. We already send people there today.
Speaker 1: And I guess it might Son, I know you wanted
Speaker 1: to jump in, but I guess what I'm saying, which
Speaker 1: we are all saying, is that the transport issue is problematic.
Speaker 1: Just how so, perhaps what we're saying is that there
Speaker 1: has to be a SEAPEP model that is brought to
Speaker 1: the people. I mean, you said that you started out
Speaker 1: saying we've got to go to where the problem is
Speaker 1: and work with the communities. And that is the same
Speaker 1: sort of model and mentality that we were we work
Speaker 1: under as organizers that we've got to go to where
Speaker 1: the people are, and not assume that because we posted
Speaker 1: a thing on social media that folks are going to
Speaker 1: show up, Not that because we set up a you know,
Speaker 1: a food pantry at a church or in a building,
Speaker 1: that people are gonna come there to get the services.
Speaker 3: Some people will, some people will were talking about the
Speaker 3: rest that don't.
Speaker 1: Take it to the corner that they walk past frequently.
Speaker 1: Maybe you can knock on doors to provide those things.
Speaker 1: And I and that would require us to take mental
Speaker 1: health very very seriously correct. It would require us to
Speaker 1: shift funding maybe from some places and look at the
Speaker 1: ways in which we fund programs now, because when we
Speaker 1: say that there may or may not be any money,
Speaker 1: well is we're militarizing police every day, We're buying equipment
Speaker 1: that is so expensive that and waits for a potential crisis,
Speaker 1: versus using those dollars to deal with housing and health
Speaker 1: and whatever. So that's my little rant in my soapbox.
Speaker 1: But I do have one question because I want to
Speaker 1: shift because I know it's time for you and us
Speaker 1: to go young people. First of all, we saw just
Speaker 1: here in the last few days again mass shootings are happening,
Speaker 1: just often too often, and there's a young man who
Speaker 1: he shot and killed. One person shot several people with
Speaker 1: I guess sixty six people in Atlanta, all women between
Speaker 1: the ages of twenty and seventy. One of the on
Speaker 1: the younger side of that number, a person died, a
Speaker 1: woman died. His mother said he's been a mess since
Speaker 1: his medicine got messed up. There are people listening. I
Speaker 1: have friends, and it's no secret that the reason why
Speaker 1: you became my doctor is because I suffered an addiction
Speaker 1: issue connected to my own mental health challenges, and you
Speaker 1: walk me through that. I have had people doing my hair,
Speaker 1: doing my makeup, doctor Pratz, people helping me, you know,
Speaker 1: at events. Maybe they're the photographer. Since they've heard my story,
Speaker 1: since I've been telling the story, they whisper. They don't
Speaker 1: say it in public. Celebrities send me messages and they say, hey,
Speaker 1: what do I do? You know my family member or
Speaker 1: I'm asking for a friend. How did you get off of,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever you were addicted to. I don't always
Speaker 1: have an answer. I don't and I would, you know.
Speaker 1: I'd love for you to talk to those families today.
Speaker 1: During mental health awareness mon we're supposed to talk about
Speaker 1: young people and black men and somehow we all over here.
Speaker 2: But for people who.
Speaker 1: Are listening today mental Health Awareness Month, what is the
Speaker 1: message about how you get your self help and or
Speaker 1: people around you? And just make sure as you're talking
Speaker 1: about this, include a peace about the shame because most
Speaker 1: people that's what is the barrier for them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, part of the pressure that's been put
Speaker 3: on us is you got to be twice as good
Speaker 3: where you know, particularly black women are expected to you know,
Speaker 3: function at the highest capacity no matter what they're hired for.
Speaker 3: And so then what ends up happening is the pressure
Speaker 3: that's put on us causes us to neglect our not
Speaker 3: just our mental health care, but also our medical care.
Speaker 3: So you know, our brothers getting their prostate exams and
Speaker 3: their blood pressures and things like that. And so I think,
Speaker 3: first of all, you know, we have to really get
Speaker 3: out of that mindset that we need to be twice
Speaker 3: as good and that we being good doesn't include taking
Speaker 3: care of ourselves. So we need to put self care first.
Speaker 3: I hope that what you'll do is post my book
Speaker 3: on your website is called Mind Matters, a Resource Guide
Speaker 3: for Black People Serving Black Communities For Black communities and
Speaker 3: what we do in this book is is really talk
Speaker 3: about mental illness in very plain terms. Anyone can read
Speaker 3: this book. It goes through all of the diagnosis and
Speaker 3: what this would do for you and your family members
Speaker 3: is give you the world. It's in plain language to
Speaker 3: be able to express to your doctor, to your therapist
Speaker 3: what these concerns are. Frequently it seems scary the symptoms.
Speaker 3: They seem, you know, in some way like they I've
Speaker 3: heard people say, oh, they're possessed, or there's something spiritual.
Speaker 3: This is biologically based and it would help us to
Speaker 3: become more familiar with mental health. It's something that we
Speaker 3: have looked at with shame and embarrassment. I get the
Speaker 3: same thing wherever I go. I give these talks, and
Speaker 3: when I ask people to raise their hand if they
Speaker 3: don't have any issues, no one ever raises their hand.
Speaker 3: But before I could get the door, they're pulling my coat,
Speaker 3: slipping me their number, doing all kinds of things because
Speaker 3: they actually do have this need. So I think that's
Speaker 3: number one. The second point is that mental health services
Speaker 3: are available right now now. A lot of it is online,
Speaker 3: and I do realize it's not as good as face
Speaker 3: to face, but I promise you having a therapist and
Speaker 3: someone to contact online in a crisis is better than
Speaker 3: no one. It's better than no one. So I would
Speaker 3: encourage people to use on some of these online access,
Speaker 3: online access to mental health services and thirty. This is
Speaker 3: just my opinion. We really need to do more in
Speaker 3: the schools. We need to be more leaning more towards
Speaker 3: emotional intelligence. The mental health is at the end of it,
Speaker 3: but we should be picking up kids in the beginning.
Speaker 3: When they're hungry, that's a predictor of mental health. When
Speaker 3: you see they're wearing tattered clothes, that's a predictor of
Speaker 3: mental health. When they're failing their grades before you put
Speaker 3: them in special Ed. I'm trying to get these kids
Speaker 3: out of special ed. How about we start doing mental
Speaker 3: health evaluations.
Speaker 1: And there you said, when they're clothes, look like down
Speaker 1: or whatever, that's an indicator.
Speaker 3: That's a future mental health challenge. And I'll tell you why. Yes,
Speaker 3: let me speak on that. It's the weakest link when people.
Speaker 3: I'll put it like this, if you look one hundred
Speaker 3: families in distress for whatever reason, and you gave them
Speaker 3: all five thousand dollars not even know what the problem is.
Speaker 3: I guarantee you a lot of them, a lot of
Speaker 3: their situation would improve the arguments the husband, the fighting
Speaker 3: would go away. That that night at dinner, you laid
Speaker 3: that five thousand dollarsand table. The husband and wife aren't
Speaker 3: fighting anymore that night. So people under pressure bubble over.
Speaker 3: And so when a kid doesn't have clean clothes or
Speaker 3: enough to eat, it's an indicator that things are not
Speaker 3: adequate in the house. That should call our attention to
Speaker 3: go see why is that mother not bathing that child.
Speaker 3: Maybe she has depression and she's laying in the bed.
Speaker 3: And so that kid, who then is suffering more pressure,
Speaker 3: is more likely to try something for relief, to drink, something,
Speaker 3: to smoke, something, to try some physical harming to make
Speaker 3: themselves feel better, to hide and shame. It's that.
Speaker 2: That's so what I I want to end this pretty
Speaker 2: much with two things. I need you to do. I
Speaker 2: need you give us your back. You know, you sound
Speaker 2: like one of the best psychologists I've ever heard, knowing
Speaker 2: as an individual, you adope all around individual. Let these
Speaker 2: people say how long you've been studying you know, let
Speaker 2: them know where they can find you, because we need
Speaker 2: people like you, man, We need people to reach out
Speaker 2: to people like you.
Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you I grew up in Chicago and
Speaker 3: was struggling myself as a young person and ended up
Speaker 3: going to prison at eighteen years old. And I'll tell
Speaker 3: you that experience has shaped me as a man and
Speaker 3: as a formally incarcerated individual. Have tried to navigate through
Speaker 3: life with this burden of a telony that has I'm
Speaker 3: going to estimate, you know, delayed me probably ten to
Speaker 3: twelve years. Even though I passed all the tests to
Speaker 3: become a doctor, to go to college, I was constantly
Speaker 3: denied and in my pursuit of access to becoming a
Speaker 3: mental health provider, which.
Speaker 2: How loo were you? Because I didn't want to cut you. No,
Speaker 2: that's fine.
Speaker 3: I was sittence to four years, and so I did
Speaker 3: about two years.
Speaker 2: Wow, I never knew that I gotta we gotta do
Speaker 2: sit downs with the stand ups. I need you on
Speaker 2: my sit downs with the stands ups, where we sit
Speaker 2: down and we go from everything about formally incus rated.
Speaker 2: How it's become successful. So that's later on.
Speaker 3: But okay, so I got out of believe it or not,
Speaker 3: I actually wrote I was writing letters to colleges from prison.
Speaker 3: I was pretty daeved. I got accepted into Berkeley. I
Speaker 3: got out of prison I think in July of nineteen
Speaker 3: eighty seven, and within a couple of months I was
Speaker 3: a freshman at Berkeley and studied molecular and cell biology.
Speaker 3: I then went to the University of Southern California. I
Speaker 3: applied to thirty medical schools. I got rejected by twenty eight. Fortunately,
Speaker 3: the University of Southern California saw fit to admit me
Speaker 3: even though you know, I had a felony. So really
Speaker 3: what happened was you need people to give you opportunity,
Speaker 3: so it's so easy that you know this to slam
Speaker 3: the door in your face. So then ended up coming
Speaker 3: to New York. I trained that sunny downstate for child psychiatry.
Speaker 3: I trained at Monti Fury at the Bronx Psychiatric Center
Speaker 3: for adult psychiatry. So I've always really worked with marginalized people,
Speaker 3: homeless outreach in the city. I was there at nine
Speaker 3: to eleven, volunteered nine to eleven. So so yeah, I
Speaker 3: felt like, you know, God has really put a responsibility
Speaker 3: on me, so I give them my time to formally
Speaker 3: incarcerated people to the black community, to underserve populations to
Speaker 3: advocate on their behalf because they don't have anybody else
Speaker 3: to advocate for them.
Speaker 2: Well, listen, I truly appreciate you man that I didn't
Speaker 2: even know that part, but I just knew that she
Speaker 2: was a dope individual, and you know, I liked you individual.
Speaker 2: But now hearing that I get you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: It makes you feel a lot better because your representation
Speaker 2: of what formerly incarcerated people can do because there's such
Speaker 2: a stigmas and that we are just the words the
Speaker 2: bottom of the barrel. I heard somebody call somebody at
Speaker 2: the bottom of the barrele from being incarcerated. So you
Speaker 2: you represent what someone who has the mind and the
Speaker 2: heart and the energy that comes home after being incarcerated
Speaker 2: and suffering to come home and do something successful. So
Speaker 2: I appreciate you.
Speaker 3: Let me give a shot. I got to give a
Speaker 3: shout out to our Governor Kathy hoche who, despite me
Speaker 3: having a felony, appointed me to the New York State
Speaker 3: Commission on Corrections. And now I sit in an oversight
Speaker 3: position ensuring that there's no shenanigans happening with our incarcerated
Speaker 3: individuals as far as psychiatric delivery. I also want to
Speaker 3: give a shout out to New York State Senate who
Speaker 3: confirmed me knowing that I was a formerly incarcerated individual.
Speaker 3: So New York State is not just talking about formally
Speaker 3: incarcerated individuals, but actually do on something. And that's an
Speaker 3: example right there.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm talking about, Mike.
Speaker 1: Sometimes sometimes I love New York. Sometimes I don't, you know,
Speaker 1: what is that?
Speaker 2: What is it?
Speaker 1: Mounds?
Speaker 2: Don't?
Speaker 1: Okay, one of those things. That's how I feel about it.
Speaker 1: You know, I am emotional because I know all of
Speaker 1: this stuff, but I didn't know what you would bring
Speaker 1: up today about your background. Some people sometimes you do
Speaker 1: it all the time. Sometimes we don't. And I know
Speaker 1: your story and I know your commitment. I know your family. Obviously,
Speaker 1: your wife Hasani is one of my best friends and
Speaker 1: has mentored me, you know, in the political space in
Speaker 1: New York and beyond, and I am just so proud
Speaker 1: to be friends with you all because I know what
Speaker 1: you do. I know the commitment you have. I know
Speaker 1: that when I'm talking to you, I'm speaking to you,
Speaker 1: not to everybody. My business is not being told to
Speaker 1: the world, because that was one of the reasons why
Speaker 1: I've had challenges with with working with mental health professionals
Speaker 1: in the past because I was worried about what they
Speaker 1: would tell other people. And it just has been a pleasure.
Speaker 1: And if you are someone who's listening and trying to
Speaker 1: get in touch with Michael Pratt, and first of all,
Speaker 1: the information will be included in this episode, but please
Speaker 1: tell folks how to find you and thank you, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you for joining the Street Politicians.
Speaker 3: Sure, sure, absolutely, you can just google my name Michael Pratts.
Speaker 3: I'm listed there one of the black psychiatrists are Greater
Speaker 3: New York. My contact information is there to mean hopefully
Speaker 3: you'll publish the book on your website. The link to
Speaker 3: that Mind Matters a resource guide right for the black community.
Speaker 3: Plain language everyone should read. Thank you, appreciate you, thank you,
Speaker 3: thank you.
Speaker 2: That was excellent. And I didn't even know all of
Speaker 2: those things about Mike, say you holding out like I
Speaker 2: knew you could.
Speaker 1: Sometimes. I mean, we've had people on the show before
Speaker 1: guests that they didn't tell me to bring up that
Speaker 1: they were formerly incarcerated. Like sometimes people don't want to
Speaker 1: talk about it, sometimes not because they're ashamed, but because
Speaker 1: if you're talking about the professional work, they don't want
Speaker 1: you to be over.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: So I'm glad that he wears it as a badge
Speaker 2: of honor. And that's what sit Down with the Standums
Speaker 2: is about. It's about highlighting brothers like Michael, Like this
Speaker 2: is a successful psychiatrist, someone who is really successful, and
Speaker 2: he broke down his accolades. He sits on the board
Speaker 2: for formally incarcerated individuals that.
Speaker 1: He was appointed for the commission people.
Speaker 2: Okay, so listen, yeah, for the people for the Department
Speaker 2: of Crisis. So that is important. It's important that people
Speaker 2: who are incarcerated or formally incarcerated coming home see that,
Speaker 2: see somebody like him, and say, Wow, it's not over
Speaker 2: for me. Whatever society is saying about me is not.
Speaker 2: And I'm glad that he embraces that. So, you know,
Speaker 2: the interview in itself was dope, but that just made
Speaker 2: it ten times dope for me. So definitely gonna have
Speaker 2: him once sit down to the stand Ups. But on
Speaker 2: off topic, you know, my my, I don't get this
Speaker 2: a little old topic. I was in sports mode. You know,
Speaker 2: we're in the playoffs, so I just been watching sports
Speaker 2: and I was watching ESPN a couple of days ago,
Speaker 2: you know, Dylan Brooks. Now you don't know about them.
Speaker 2: Dylan Brooks is a player on Memphis's He likes to
Speaker 2: trash talk, you know, he gets in the heads. He's
Speaker 2: one of those players that we've been celebrating, people like
Speaker 2: Draymond Green, people like Dennis Rodman, like people like Gary Payton.
Speaker 2: These were people that throughout history, you know, they would
Speaker 2: trash talk you. They fied you hard, and that's who
Speaker 2: they were, you know, and they've been like the garbage man,
Speaker 2: and they've always existed in basketball, you know. And a
Speaker 2: couple of days, the Memphis Grizzlies, who is his team,
Speaker 2: put out a statement saying that they wouldn't be inviting
Speaker 2: him back to play for the team, and you know,
Speaker 2: and I think it was biased. I think never before
Speaker 2: I've seen anything like this, I think, because you know,
Speaker 2: Lebron James is pretty much hierarchy and you know, he's
Speaker 2: like basketball royalty. And he talked, he talked trash to Lebron,
Speaker 2: and Lebron cracked him. So they ended up losing the series.
Speaker 2: But throughout this whole season he talked trash and they
Speaker 2: were winning. They were a number one seed, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean a number two seed. In the West and
Speaker 2: him talking trash in the level that he played hard
Speaker 2: every game got them to where they was. And now
Speaker 2: that you know, they didn't win and it was publicized.
Speaker 2: You know, what they're doing to this man is something
Speaker 2: I don't get. I don't think it's right to publicly
Speaker 2: embarrass him, you know, try to make him the black sheep.
Speaker 2: He's done nothing that we have not seen throughout history.
Speaker 2: There's been people that I hated, that talk trash, that
Speaker 2: fouled the best players, my favorite players, you know, but
Speaker 2: they they served the job, you know, and I don't
Speaker 2: see any He ain't no off the court distraction. You
Speaker 2: don't hear Dylan Brooks then gotten to no fighter out
Speaker 2: on the street. You know, he ain't out there beating
Speaker 2: nobody up. He ain't doing no gangs and stuff.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: We we see we've been celebrated negativity and people's characters
Speaker 2: and in real life. You know, because they can play basketball,
Speaker 2: they you know, they're good at the sport. But somebody
Speaker 2: who comes to the sport with a little bit of edge,
Speaker 2: who from what we can see, is a decent human being,
Speaker 2: you want to shun an embarrassing, you know, for having
Speaker 2: a role that has been celebrated in the NBA for years.
Speaker 2: So I don't really get what it is, you know.
Speaker 2: And I'm not the biggest Dylon Brooks fan. I really
Speaker 2: actually don't really like him much. But I think with
Speaker 2: the NBA and with the Memphis Grizzlies is doing to
Speaker 2: him is wrong. And I don't really get it. I don't,
Speaker 2: you know, And I don't know why more athletes and
Speaker 2: players aren't saying what are you saying? What's happening to
Speaker 2: Hima Drone? So I just wanted to say that I
Speaker 2: really just don't get it.
Speaker 1: Well, the whole idea of more people speaking up on
Speaker 1: behalf of folks is it's really the number of people
Speaker 1: who are willing to speak out is dwindling because the
Speaker 1: punishment for using your voice has been scaring people. And
Speaker 1: you can see that, you know, so many have been
Speaker 1: put in their place, they've been demonized, they've lost money,
Speaker 1: and they've lost endorsement deals. And therefore, and I'm not
Speaker 1: just talking about it in sports, just in general, paychecks.
Speaker 1: Let me not say endorsements, paychecks, and so people have
Speaker 1: become you know, they're worried about themselves, and so, you know,
Speaker 1: I think That's one thing I don't really know obviously
Speaker 1: much about this situation, but what I will say is
Speaker 1: that it seems like, I mean, we're just in a
Speaker 1: sensitive spaces as a society, and you know, I feel
Speaker 1: like I always tell we are all each individual person
Speaker 1: is a walking contradiction because what we don't agree with
Speaker 1: on one hand because of our own personal opinions on
Speaker 1: certain issues, we may support on the other hand, so
Speaker 1: we are not going to allow or certain things. But
Speaker 1: then as the walking contradiction is that on the other side,
Speaker 1: we're like, no, but this shouldn't be an issue. And
Speaker 1: I say that because the sensitivity around trash talk that
Speaker 1: seems to be a new thing within sports. It's triggering
Speaker 1: to a lot of people, like people on both sides.
Speaker 1: You know, people are like, wait, I don't think we
Speaker 1: should be censoring or not so much censoring, but changing
Speaker 1: the flow of the trash talk and the you know,
Speaker 1: the sort of trolling or whatever you call it, taunting
Speaker 1: or whatever. People don't want that. But then when it's
Speaker 1: not their favor when it's their favorite team, they're okay
Speaker 1: with it. Right when it's their favorite player, they're okay
Speaker 1: with it. So I don't know where this is going
Speaker 1: to go. We have to kind of see the direction
Speaker 1: that this takes on.
Speaker 2: I think. I think social media has has put a
Speaker 2: highlight on everything, and it's allowed people who really don't
Speaker 2: have any stake or anything to dictate the whole structure
Speaker 2: of everything. So if you go online and they see
Speaker 2: a thousand and two thousand people say, f Dylan Brooks,
Speaker 2: then in their mind, you know, he's he's a liability
Speaker 2: to the team, you know, So I think, and that's
Speaker 2: why I try to tell people you can't judge real
Speaker 2: life on the Internet because it really I'm trying to
Speaker 2: tell it's a fault. It is a false meter. It
Speaker 2: is really a false meter. And we've seen that in
Speaker 2: a lot of situations with court cases and what people
Speaker 2: were saying and the public opinion of what's going on,
Speaker 2: and then in real life we were like the Internet
Speaker 2: was trying to tell us this, and then when real
Speaker 2: life happened, it'd be completely different. So I just want
Speaker 2: us not to get so caught up and what the
Speaker 2: Internet believes, what the Internet tells us, and just start
Speaker 2: dealing in real life. Do your own research, fact check things, look,
Speaker 2: you know, understand the reality of what we're doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, guess what, you got some nerve Because the
Speaker 1: people who say the Internet ain't real life, sure enough,
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time on it trying to convince
Speaker 1: people of their opinions. But anyway, I digress.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not so much trying to convince. It's
Speaker 2: just that what I do.
Speaker 1: You make a point. If you make a point on
Speaker 1: the Internet, and you tell two or three people how
Speaker 1: you feel, that's fool. If you spend hours in a
Speaker 1: day going back and forth in comments with different individuals
Speaker 1: on different pages, it's left your page, now it's on
Speaker 1: this page, and it's hand the third and it said
Speaker 1: the third. You are trying to convince people of your opinion.
Speaker 2: I don't notice that. I'm just I'm just natural. I
Speaker 2: naturally like to debate.
Speaker 1: But why debate people who are not real life?
Speaker 2: Because for me, I don't think that the individuals. I
Speaker 2: don't really think the individuals are real. I just think
Speaker 2: that their perspectives are something that might be shared with
Speaker 2: a lot of people. So when they have a perspective,
Speaker 2: I have no problem shooting down the perspective because I
Speaker 2: can answer it.
Speaker 1: We have different.
Speaker 2: I don't okay, we don't agree. Sounds sounds familiar, So listen. Man.
Speaker 2: Shout out to doctor Michael Pratts for his excellent, you know,
Speaker 2: understanding of where we are in society today during mental
Speaker 2: health months. You know, hopefully somebody will listen to this
Speaker 2: hint and take some of his recommendations for how we
Speaker 2: deal with mental health in our society right now.
Speaker 1: But the police, I don't know, like you know, im,
Speaker 1: but there has to be adjustments made. But I understand
Speaker 1: from his perspective.
Speaker 2: The principle is that those people need help. People need help,
Speaker 2: and we need to be able to get them immediate help.
Speaker 2: And if we allow them to just roam, you know,
Speaker 2: without help, when we have the ability and people you know,
Speaker 2: officers are woke up to you and stopping fresh you anyway, right,
Speaker 2: So if we got stopping friss and people are getting
Speaker 2: stopping frist every day, and we and we and we
Speaker 2: able to utilize officers to get mental health people the
Speaker 2: help they need by walking up to them and saying, hey,
Speaker 2: we have to take you to a mental health facility
Speaker 2: and it's documented.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, we're gonna have to talk
Speaker 1: about we have to talk a little a whole another
Speaker 1: day about that because and we would have to talk
Speaker 1: to law enforcement in New York, because I don't know
Speaker 1: how you will how in the white community it might work.
Speaker 2: It's like a warrant. It's like a warrant, that's what
Speaker 2: it is. It's like the police to jail. So you
Speaker 2: have a mental health warrant to where we don't take
Speaker 2: you to jail, but we take you to a mental
Speaker 2: facility that can help you because you know it's deemed
Speaker 2: that you need help mentally.
Speaker 1: I yet what you're saying. I'm not trying to argue
Speaker 1: because I hear what you're saying. I'm just triggered because
Speaker 1: I know that a lot of people get abused and
Speaker 1: we never hear and see their stories. A lot of
Speaker 1: people don't. More people don't get abused by police than
Speaker 1: do so I'm not you know, we know that that's it.
Speaker 1: More people don't. More people the situation is resolved, and
Speaker 1: you know what have you. But they are very egregious
Speaker 1: acts and cases that cannot be ignored because they're not
Speaker 1: the majority. And so I don't know. I think you
Speaker 1: have to be a certain type of officer who sign
Speaker 1: up for this and has as you were saying, about
Speaker 1: the having a weapon, right, You got to be constantly
Speaker 1: monitored for your behavior. You have to have the officer
Speaker 1: who's standing next to you and other individuals. They have
Speaker 1: to be responsible for what you do. So if you
Speaker 1: act out, you and Officer Robbie together need to be
Speaker 1: held responsible for your actions. Like it has to be
Speaker 1: so strict that that's going to be the problem because
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a lot of police officers that's like,
Speaker 1: I don't want that responsibility. They you know, they're scrutinizing
Speaker 1: me too much, So then who does the job? I
Speaker 1: just don't know, That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Well, we'll discuss it further another day.
Speaker 2: But with that said, brings us to the end of
Speaker 2: another show. Shout out to all of our listeners. We
Speaker 2: appreciate you. A few politicians. Number one podcasts in the
Speaker 2: world in the world, continue to hit us up, hit
Speaker 2: us street politicians, pod Let us know what you love,
Speaker 2: what you hate, what you want to hear, what guess
Speaker 2: you want us to give me on all of your feedbacks? Man,
Speaker 2: And once again, I'm not gonna always be right, Tamika
Speaker 2: d Mallories and I can always be wrong. But we
Speaker 2: will both always and I mean always, always, always be authentic.
Speaker 1: Paz. Listen to Street Politicians on the Black Effect Network
Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: And catch us every single Wednesday for the video version
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Speaker 1: That's how we owned