1 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph 2 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: Channel one two. No one wants to hear that news quote. 3 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: I can't take kids that constantly cry. Okay, well, all 4 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: children constantly cry. That's just a given. They're gonna cry. 5 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: Let's see. Why did John David start crying this weekend? 6 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: Which is very rare? Oh, because I made in practice piano. 7 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: Lucy started crying when I told her she had to 8 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: put away her homemade slime that she's obsessed with making 9 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: and go to sleep. She had a big that of 10 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: it in a giant tupperware. I mean, anything, can they'll 11 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: just cry. They can be tired, they cry, They're hungry, 12 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: they cry, that's just that's just part of it. But 13 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: three dead infants because you couldn't stand the way that 14 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: they cry. I Meancy Grace, this is Crime Stories, and 15 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: believe you me. I want justice. Nancy Maronez now suspected 16 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: in three murders, including the murder of her own son. 17 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: How did she get a mits on? Two others joining me? 18 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: Chicago psychologist Dr Tiffany Sanders, forensics expert and Professor of 19 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan and investigative 20 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: journalist Alan Duke Uh Alan Nancy Maronez now suspected in 21 00:01:51,640 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: suffocating three babies, but all three deaths were attributed to SIDS, 22 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: Sudden infant death syndrome. Hold On, hold on, Alan, just 23 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: got Morgan. You're the forensics expert. Maybe you can explain 24 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: it a little better than I. What is SIDS. We 25 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: don't really Still to this day, Nancy, we still don't 26 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: know what SIDS is. What it stands for is sudden 27 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: infant infant death syndrome. For many years, people referred to 28 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: it as crib death, and it's this mysterious thing that 29 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: kind of hangs out there in the air, and new 30 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 1: parents in particular, I remember me being terrified of h 31 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: you know, walking in and finding my baby deceased, and 32 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: then at autopsy. Many times there's just no viable explanation. 33 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: And that's what's troubling about this because lots of times, 34 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: lots of times, it's the default position when you're trying 35 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: to make a diagnosis postmode. Well, I was the same 36 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: way with the twins. I finally got him something called 37 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: angel something. It was a very thin mattress, almost like 38 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: the the thickness of a heating pad that you put 39 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: under their sheet and if they if they're breathing stopped. 40 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: It was supposed to alarm. Of course, it never did 41 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: alarm because, as you said, Joe Scott, that no, to 42 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: this day, the real cause of sudden infant death syndrome 43 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: SIDS has not been identified, which makes me highly suspicious 44 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: when I keep hearing about children dying of SIDS, and 45 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: it does happen. But when one woman is connected to 46 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: three different children, unrelated in time and space of SIDS, 47 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: they all die of SIDS. She's the commonality, She's the 48 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: common factor. And I can't believe it's taken all these 49 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: years to put two and two together to read to 50 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: get four sudden infant death syndrome. And this is even 51 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: I remember when the twins were born, and that was 52 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: ten years ago. There's a huge effort, an initiative call 53 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: back to sleep, Back to sleep. Always put your child 54 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: to sleep on their back, because part of the theory 55 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: is that if you put your child to sleep on 56 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: their tummy, their face will get smushed down in blankets 57 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: or sheets which you're not supposed to have in the 58 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: bed anyway, and they'll suffocate because they don't have the 59 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: power to move their heads or to turn over on 60 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 1: their back back to sleep. And to this day, that 61 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: was ten years ago, no serious strides have been taken 62 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: in reducing sudden infant death syndrome. So I guess everybody 63 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: just took it at face value that Nancy Morona has 64 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: just happened to be connected to three dead babies. So, 65 00:04:55,360 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: Alan Duke, uh, what brought about any type of break 66 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: in the case. We'll start with the first death. What happened. 67 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: Little Justin Brunka was just eighteen days old when he 68 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: died suddenly. This was in nineteen eighty and as you said, 69 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: the corner concluded it was SIDSA Justin This is Nancy's son, 70 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 1: eighteen days old. Okay, how is he found? Do we know? Yes, 71 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: he was found at her home. She called the police 72 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: and said her baby was not breathing, and so they 73 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: responded and concluded it was SIDS. It was at the home. 74 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: Chilling details and documents that we have obtained from prosecutors 75 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: where she states and I quote, I quote can't take 76 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: kids that constantly cry God forbid one of them have colic? Okay, 77 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: just God forbid? Um. Interesting, that's the first dead infant, 78 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: just four years after her own son's death. It's now 79 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: believed Moronez was babysitting a six month old baby boy. 80 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: Now at the time. She tells investigators she noticed the 81 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 1: baby was unresponsive in less than an hour after she 82 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: puts him to sleep face down on a water bed. Okay, 83 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: she tells police she got concerned when she saw the 84 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: baby's face turned purple the way her sons did when 85 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: he died. Now right there, Alan, Police, Uh, Antenna should 86 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: have shot up when she says, this is just the 87 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: way my baby's son died. Hello, she's on the scene 88 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: when two babies died. How did the baby's parents find 89 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: Nancy Morinez? Nancy Moronez responded to a Milwaukee newspaper ad 90 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: where the couple was looking for a babysitter, and she 91 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: signed up for the job, and they hired her and 92 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: started baby sitting for this child. It was just one 93 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: year after the six month old little boy is dead. 94 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: The next child victim, just one year later, she was 95 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: babysitting an eleven week old little girl. What happened? Alan? 96 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: Do you? She called? Firefighters? Called? Firefighters responded to her home. 97 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: She pointed to a plastic seat on the floor, just 98 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: saying there it is, and that's where two months old 99 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: katie cousin Nikki was on the seat, cold blue, not breathing. 100 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: And this is what's really crazy. Maronas recognized one of 101 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: the firefighters who responded, realizing he had come to her 102 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: home the previous March when Brad died, and she yesked 103 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: the firefighter, do you yeah, that's so odd, Alan do 104 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: because reportedly the firefighter says, yeah, I remember, and that 105 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: Maronas then said, according to the court documents we've just obtained, 106 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: I told my husband I didn't want a babysit anymore. 107 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: That's the third dead baby. The first time her own 108 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: son justin Bronco, just eighteen days old dead. Four years later, 109 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: an infant six month old baby boy dead. She tells 110 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: the cops, I became suspicious because he died just like 111 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: my son did. That should have warned them right then, 112 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: but no, it didn't. Then the third one, and she 113 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: actually starts a conversation with the firefighter to remind him 114 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: that he responded to one of the other dead baby calls. 115 00:08:53,600 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: And still nothing is done to Dr tiff Me Sanders, 116 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: Chicago psychologist. Dr Tiffany do you believe the fact that 117 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: cops and firefighters e. M t s didn't piece anything 118 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: together because we have a natural tendency to invoke maternalism 119 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: on moms. We we just assume mother's love children. Yeah, Nancy, 120 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: I'm listening to the story and I'm reading the information, 121 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: and it seems so shocking that no one is putting 122 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: the pieces together. I work continued with Department Children and 123 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: Family with Services, and when you see a circumstance happened once, okay, sure, 124 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: but a second time and it's very eerily similar to 125 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: the way her her child path, it will bring up 126 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: all sort of red flacks and have all sort of 127 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: case workers or investigators determining what is the relationship between 128 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: these two deaths. And I do believe to your point 129 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 1: that they may have afforded her some sort of uh 130 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: privilege that, oh, she's a mother, she wouldn't harm another 131 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: person's child, versus looking at this woman with some form 132 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: of psychopathology and saying, why is she killing babies? It's 133 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: a shame that that they did not investigate this further. 134 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: With that second child, I'm looking at a family photo 135 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: of her. She's smiling and happy, apparently with he must 136 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: be her husband. Completely normal looking woman. She's kind of attractive, 137 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: I guess, and big smiles, seemingly normal, but the bodies 138 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: are stacking up. In one statement, she apparently says that 139 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: she used a blanket with one of her tiny victims, 140 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: that the baby quote kind of moved around in her 141 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: hands as she suffocated. Did the baby dead? Does? She 142 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: goes on to say she did not use a blanket 143 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: with her own sun because quote, she wanted him to 144 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: go sooner. What? What? What? Dr Tiffany? What about impulse control? 145 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: You know you want the child to quit crying, but 146 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: to kill it? Absolutely? I mean you're you're you're thinking 147 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: about impulse control, you're thinking about you know, does she 148 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: lack empathy? Remorse? Uh? Does she have care or concerned? 149 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: I mean, these are all signs and symptoms of possible psychopathology. 150 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: Possible this woman is deranged, and and no one's looking 151 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: and investigating her mental illness. You just don't do those things, 152 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: especially with the newborn so and and and I'm not 153 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: trying to blame the mom of these the second child, 154 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: but what background check does she conduct? I mean, did 155 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: you not investigate her own care of children? That's usually 156 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: one of the first things you want to do before 157 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: you placed your own child and someone else's care. Hello, 158 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: her own child died. I'm gonna put some ownership on 159 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: that parents. They didn't do their own good enough job 160 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: or due diligence research in this woman's background. Alan, do 161 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: you what brought it to the forefront? I mean, how, 162 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: after all this time was it uncovered that these children 163 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: did not die of SIDS. Well, it was the daughter, 164 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: the younger sister of the first child to die. Uh 165 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: Nancy's daughter was curious about why her older brother had died, 166 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: and she wasn't accepting SIDS. So she had talks with 167 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: her mom, and what her mom told her was chilling, 168 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: and so she couldn't keep it in. She went to 169 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: the police and told them what her mother had revealed 170 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: to her. And what did the mother say? What was chilling? 171 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,559 Speaker 1: She said, I killed her brother. I suffocated him. I 172 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: understood that. She first said she suffocated him with a 173 00:12:54,800 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: black garbage bag, but then later she's tells prosecutors he 174 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 1: actually died. After she held less than one month. All 175 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: taught the baby the infant under the water in the bathtub. 176 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 1: Now Joe's got Morgan. If that's true, they should have 177 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: found water in the baby's lung, shouldn't they not? Necessarily, Nancy, weren't. 178 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: One of the ways that they explained this is that 179 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: there's a spasm that takes place in the airway that 180 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: literally shuts down the airway to include it from taking 181 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: in the water. But also what it includes is the 182 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: ability to breathe. It's um. It's a curious thing, isn't it, 183 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: Because this it doesn't take a lot. It doesn't take 184 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: a lot. I gotta be real careful in saying this. 185 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: It doesn't take a lot to kill a baby. This 186 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 1: is this. These little angels are the most fragile among us, 187 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: so it doesn't take a lot of effort to facilitate 188 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: their death. UM. And in this particular case, when they 189 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: did the examination on the child, the pathologist UM didn't 190 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: find any evidence of drowning in in this particular case 191 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: what we would normally associate. And this is another thing, 192 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: if I can just go a little bit further, one 193 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: of the things that we look for in sins first off, 194 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: is do they fit within the age parameters. And that's 195 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: what's so disturbing about this. They're saying this child is 196 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: eighteen months old. Now, granted this is back in night, 197 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: but I'm sorry, eighteen days old. And that is a 198 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: major problem in the sense that we don't even start 199 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:52,479 Speaker 1: considering sins until we're out past the one month old marker. Okay, 200 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: So if you're talking about eighteen days, Nancy, we're talking 201 00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: about some kind of metabolic condition that exists within that child, 202 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: that maybe was in dwelling that child since birth. We 203 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: don't start to look at sids until about one month 204 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: out at that point, so it didn't fit the parameters 205 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: that have been There's another fact in her statement, Jo Scott. 206 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: She says she quote saw bubbles coming out of his 207 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: nose and mouth, But why are we even considering the 208 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: statements of a three time killer. She also says, quote 209 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: when her daughter was born, she made a promise to 210 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: God that she would not do anything to hurt her 211 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: daughter if she was crying, but later tells cops, I 212 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: made a promise, but I broke it. Yeah, you darn right, 213 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: you broke it. Here's the kicker. You can kill as 214 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: many infants as you want to in Wisconsin and they 215 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: don't have the death penalty. And I've already seen her, 216 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: I've already heard of her. I saw her walk in 217 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: the court, but I already here tell that she's using 218 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: a wheel chair. Alan do yes, she was sitting in 219 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: a wheelchair in court, slumped down, not looking up during 220 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: her preliminary hearing. And know where that's going. Dr Tiffany Sanders, Well, Nancy, 221 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: she's trying to give this an image that, Oh, I'm 222 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: I'm feeble, I'm I'm frail, I couldn't possibly have done 223 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: something such as a horrible as killing three children. No, 224 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: you have someone else that you have the wrong person. 225 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: So she's trying to play on the psyche of of 226 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: the jury and the judge, and it's just not working. 227 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: When she when she allegedly committed these actually was not 228 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: in the wheelchair. Uh, and she was probably moving about 229 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: with as much energy as you and I are the 230 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: next person. So it's a lame attempt that will not 231 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: work in Milwaukee. In Wisconsin, capital punishment was abolished in 232 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty three. They were one of the earliest U 233 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: S dates to abolish. To the DP, it's the only 234 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: state in the Union that has performed only one ex 235 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: keastion in its entire history. So I guess she's just 236 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: been free to kill as many infants as she wants 237 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: with no real repercussion. At first she was walking into court. 238 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: Now she's taken to a wheelchair. Okay, three dead infants 239 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: that we know of. Listen to this, Nancy. This is 240 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: Amy Brunca, the daughter, speaking to Fox News six in Milwaukee. 241 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: I was just shocked, just completely shocked. I feel bad 242 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: to feel shocked. I feel horrified, sick. No one wants 243 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: to hear that news from their own mother. And she's 244 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: kind of like she didn't care. She had no emotion 245 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: when she told me what she did. I went ballistic. 246 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: My heart goes out to these families. I hope that 247 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: maybe that these people have a little closure now, at 248 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: least she knowall some of the truth. I hope she 249 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: gets Brfe in prison and that understand that a cheating 250 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: Missouri governor slams a quote reckless liberal prosecutor after the 251 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 1: governor is indicted for taking naked photos of his quote 252 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: hairdresser in a blackmail plot. What does it never end? 253 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: I guarantee you his parents weren't their fingers to the 254 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: bone to send him to good schools, to help him 255 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: get through college so he could pursue his political ambition 256 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: to what sleep with the hair addresser and end up 257 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: in the middle of the scandal. And to top it 258 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: all off, how much of this do the taxpayers pay for? 259 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 1: First we've got the Nashville mayor meeting for sex with 260 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: her bodyguard at a cemetery, no less at seven in 261 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 1: the morning, and now this with the Missouri governor. You 262 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: know what, I want to throw the whole kit and 263 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 1: caboodle out. But you know what, wherever they whoever they 264 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: sleep with as their business. But did the taxpayers have 265 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: to pay for it? I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 266 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, so you may ask 267 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: what's the crime? Hold on a moment with me, Pamela 268 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: for Crime Stories. Investigative reporter, Pam I have missing children 269 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,959 Speaker 1: to find. I have unsolved homicides to solve. Why is 270 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: this considered a crime? Is the oldest story in the book. 271 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: A manchets, So what's the crime? The crime is allegedly 272 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: that he photographed a woman without her consent, someone he 273 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: was sleeping with. You mentioned a moment ago his hairdresser, 274 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: So the indictment states that he photographed her while she 275 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: was handcuffed, while she was blindfolded, and in the basement 276 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 1: of his home, and while he was taking the picture, 277 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: he said to her, if you say anything about this affair, 278 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: I will release these pictures. And so they are charging 279 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 1: him with invasion of privacy because she did not consis okay, Wait, 280 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: you had me on photo and handcuff and naked in 281 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: the same sentence, that's a crime. That is a crime 282 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: if she did not consent to it. Now, Uh, Troice Layton, 283 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 1: renowned defense attorney, And yes, that was a little bit 284 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: like eating a dirt sandwich, but I said it. Troice Layton, 285 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: renowned defense attorney out of l A Hey, buddy, Troy, 286 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: you know what, when you are in a guy's basement 287 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: completely buck naked and your handcuffed and blindfolded, it's gonna 288 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: be a little difficult to argue I didn't consent to 289 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: have my photo taken. Help me out. It's going to 290 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: be very difficult. And the only way that any of 291 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 1: this got out, Nancy, is because us her husband surreptitiously 292 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: and without her knowledge, recorded her telling her husband about 293 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: the whole thing. Wait a minute, Karen Stark, Karen Stark 294 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: psychologists out of New York, Excuse me, Troy, what's with it. 295 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: Every man in her life is recording her without her knowledge. 296 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 1: According to her, the boyfriend who happens to be the 297 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: Missouri governor has her tied up, handcuffed, naked with the 298 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: blindfold over her eyes and takes her picture. Well, that's 299 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: not flattering. And then you've got her husband allegedly recording 300 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: her conversations. This woman can't win. Well, there's no there's 301 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: no crime involved in the fact that she didn't know 302 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: about it, however, but what you wonder about is how 303 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,040 Speaker 1: is she even getting into all of these situations and 304 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: see what's going on that first she's with this guy 305 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: and allowing herself to be blindfolded, and then she's going 306 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: to her husband and telling him the story. Well, hold on, 307 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,679 Speaker 1: speaking of that, Karen's dark. He brought up a very 308 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: good point. My partner in crime, Alan, do you has 309 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: managed to locate some of the surreptitiously recorded tapes for 310 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: the husband is taping his wife as she admits to 311 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: the relationship with the Missouri governor. Listen to this, Roland Allen, 312 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: So he Saturday morning before my first client, I did 313 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: go to his house. What person ever, like I said, 314 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: nothing of the period had ever happened or taken place 315 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: until the snowball tornado just happened. I know I brought 316 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,640 Speaker 1: it on, you know, Troice Lyton. I always find it interesting, 317 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: and I can't say that I've never done something similar. 318 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: I guess we all have. You're not mad, you're you 319 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: did it. You're mad you got caught, okay, And that 320 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: seems to be her response here. She's like, I know 321 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,959 Speaker 1: I brought this on, but now a tornado has quote 322 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: just happened. Oh tornado, Troice Layton, And you can tell 323 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: this to some of your criminal defense criminal clients. Didn't 324 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 1: just happen. The tornado started when you're you're married and 325 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: you're flirting with a married guy. And again, I'm not 326 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: the church lady. I don't care who sleeps with Who's 327 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: none of my business as long as it's not me 328 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: or my husband. But you start off with a married man, 329 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: you're married too, and then you quote find yourself in 330 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: his basement buck naked with handcuffs and blindfold on. That 331 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: didn't quote just happen. It didn't just happen. Every one 332 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: of those was a conscious decision, you know, whether it's 333 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: um cheating or booze or drugs, or gambling or anger. 334 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: It could be a myriad of things that destroy a relationship. 335 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: When you give into that, that is your decision. That's 336 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: a conscious decision to mess up the marriage. Troy. I 337 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: mean this, but this is we're talking about a crime now, 338 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: and this was a conscious decision. It did not just happen. Troy. 339 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: Reminds me of drunk driving. You make the decision to 340 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: get in the car, crank up the car, reverse out 341 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,479 Speaker 1: of the bar, and get on the open road and 342 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: kill somebody with your vehicle. It's not an accident. It's 343 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: a conscious decision. Troy. You mean, Nancy, that this is 344 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: a case about choices and responsibility. The thing that every 345 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,199 Speaker 1: single prosecutor says in every single case that I've tried. 346 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: M Nancy and cow of Fornia. This would have been 347 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: a crime for this hair dresser's husband to have recorded 348 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 1: her because out here it's a two party consent. States. Well, 349 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,919 Speaker 1: it probably used to crime on Mars too or the 350 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: planet Saturn. But guess what, that's not where it happened. 351 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: It happened in Missouri, and that's the one party consent state. Troy. That, Nancy, 352 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: we have an over zealous prosecutor from the old other 353 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: party who decided to wait two years and eleven months, 354 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: about a month before the statue of limitation would have 355 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: run out on this to bring a case against the 356 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: governor of the opposite party in order to try to 357 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 1: bring him down. Well, I have to agree with you 358 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: with the political problems, the political involvement on either side. 359 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: I think it would be better to have handed it 360 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: over to the state attorney and keep local politics out 361 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: of it. But the governor, I understand, Pamela for Crime 362 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter, has now been indicted by a grand 363 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: jury and taken into custody. It's happening, people, Pam, it 364 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: is happening. And um, you mentioned the state attorney. It's 365 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: my understanding that the state's attorney said they did not 366 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: have jurisdiction in this so therefore wouldn't be investigating. So 367 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: that's why it was How can they not have jurisdiction 368 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: it's within the state of Missouri. What does that mean? 369 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: Good question, but that is what their statement was publicly 370 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: on this particular case. I will also say that this 371 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 1: all happened before he became governor, but it was right 372 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 1: before he just started. He decided to run for governors, 373 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: so he knew he had this in his very very 374 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: immediate past. So to take this kind of risk is 375 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: pretty interesting. And also it should be noted he was 376 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: a Democrat right before he decided to run for governor 377 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: as a Republican. So there may be some you know, 378 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: retaliation from a political standpoint simply because he switched parties. 379 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: That's what the scuttle but really is in the Missouri 380 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: political circles. At this point, he admitted to having this 381 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 1: affair in but he didn't admit to it until January 382 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: of this year, and that's when the investigation started. Well, 383 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: another thing, Joseph's got more going with me. Forensics expert 384 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: and professor at Jacksonville State University Jo Scott, Here's the 385 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: problem I have with it. I don't care again, who's 386 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: sleeping with a Okay that that's a moral decision, and 387 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: I'm certainly don't have a leg to stand on regarding morals, 388 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: but the law once it's a felony, then I'm in. 389 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: In this case, you've got two consenting adults. She has 390 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: consented to a sex relationship with the married governor. She's 391 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: um in the room, obviously living out some kind of 392 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: a fetish between the two of them and says that 393 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: photo has taken off her without her consent. Now, to me, 394 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: that does a disservice to all women that have truly 395 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: been victims of sex assault. And we see it unfolding 396 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,479 Speaker 1: before our eyes. I've seen it in all the rapes, 397 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: send the molestations that I prosecuted when nobody believed the 398 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: victim but me. But you know what, it's not our call, 399 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, because a grand jury heard the evidence. A 400 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: grand jury, they decided that it was without her consent 401 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: and there was enough evidence to send the case onto 402 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,719 Speaker 1: a petit jury or a jury of twelve. So Joe Scott, 403 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: I mean there you haven't, yeah, Nancy, As you know, 404 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: the in in grand grand jury proceedings, these proceedings are 405 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: essentially sealed. It's not something where you can go in 406 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: and you know you've got an audience that's in there. 407 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: They're gonna hear everything that's going on. This is the 408 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: prosecutor presenting evidence to this group of empaneled people decide 409 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: if they're going to move forward with charges. And obviously 410 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: in this particular case, they've heard evidence that has been 411 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: presented to them by the prosecutor that would compel them 412 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: to move forward with charges in in this environment. And 413 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: another layer to this we begin to think about this is, uh, 414 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: you've heard this term blackmail floated around in the news media, 415 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: and this is very troubling. And I really wonder if 416 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: that has an influence on the decision that uh, not 417 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: just the prosecutor, but this impaneled grand jury. Uh, if 418 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: it influenced them to the point where they said, yeah, 419 00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna come back with a true bill on this 420 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: and and we were going to recommend indictment on this 421 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: particular charge, and we're not really going to know anything 422 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: until all of this comes out in court are as 423 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: played out in court before our very eyes. Well you 424 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: know what, actually, Troy, you know, I've been saying, how 425 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: could she go that far and living out this fetish 426 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: between herself married and the governor married? But actually, let's 427 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: think about this for a moment. Who would consent to 428 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: a photo of it that could be used against her? 429 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: That that's when you when you think about it in 430 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: that light of argument, who would nobody would nobody would 431 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: want that photo taken that could bring down a marriage. 432 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: So she she may very well have an argument that 433 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: this grand jury brought into Can we just say for 434 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: a moment that the governor is not being charged with blackmail, 435 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: So this is a uncount indictment for invasion of privacy. 436 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: There is no allegation of blackmail, and Nancy, as far 437 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: as the grand jury is concerned, you and I both 438 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,719 Speaker 1: know that any prosecutor worth his salt or her salt 439 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: can indict a ham sandwich. And the same class with 440 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: Irving Younger that I did. I mean, the ham sandwich 441 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: thing is way overdone, okay, Troy, I expected more from 442 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: you the idea, Nancy. You know that any prosecutor that 443 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: wants to get the indictment gets the indictment. The grand 444 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: jury is the sheep, and they indict just about everything 445 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: that the prosecutor wants because there's no defense attorney in there. 446 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: The only person that they hear from in a grand 447 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: jury is the prosecutor. There's no one arguing on behalf 448 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: of the governor in those proceedings. And even if this 449 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: prosecutor thought that there was a basis for a blackmail, 450 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: she would have indicted it. Well, the defendant has a 451 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: right to show up at injury proceedings. Although I would 452 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: advise against it to any defendant because it will all 453 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: be used could be used against them. Got a question 454 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: for you, Hold on, Troy, pam for crime storys investigative reporter, 455 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: Pamela for joining us on the Missouri governor story unfolding. 456 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: Pamela for they do have the photo, don't they? I mean, 457 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: the photo exists. This isn't just a he say, she say. 458 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: Isn't they say they have the photo? But they released 459 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: thirteen pieces of evidence. Uh, the prosecutor's office. Uh, actually 460 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: released the thirteen pieces of evidence that was presented to 461 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: the grand jury, and the part of that evidence was 462 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: a photo of this woman that they're listing as k 463 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: f This allegedly the hairdresser. Also in that evidence list 464 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: were emails between this woman and the governor. So that 465 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: could be why they believe they have such a strong 466 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: case also of the possibility of the invasion of privacy, 467 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: and they're still investigating on the blackmail part. That's why 468 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: that allegation is still so strong out there in these 469 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: circles in Missouri. Hang on, Nancy, Let's let's make this clear. 470 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: The prosecutor just revealed in a court hearing that they 471 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: don't actually have the picture that is involved in the indictment, 472 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: and in fact, in a court hearing, prosecutor Robert Steele said, 473 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: I did not tell them that the picture doesn't exist. 474 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: I told them we don't have it in our possession 475 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: at this time. We plan to get that picture. Seems 476 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: to me that there's something in those emails that would 477 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: suggest the photo was against her consent. Guys. Audio uncovered 478 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: audio secretly recorded by the husband of his wife describing 479 00:33:54,720 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: her sex encounter with the Missouri governor. Listen said, I'll 480 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: make you feel better because I'll make you so good. 481 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: Come downstairs. I want to show you how to get 482 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: a proper pull up. And I knew that he would 483 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 1: being sexual, and I still let him. I mean, use 484 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,879 Speaker 1: some sort of tape I don't know what it was, 485 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: and take my hands to these wings and then to 486 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: boring pulled on me. I don't I don't know, I feel, 487 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:39,959 Speaker 1: I don't even know. I love and he's stuffed back 488 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: and I'm so flashed its blindfold. He said, you're never 489 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 1: going to mention my name, otherwise he's pictures something that wouldent. 490 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: So he said, just please just come to my house. 491 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 1: You you were just hearing a secretly recorded conversation by 492 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: the hairdresser that is basically brought down an administration in 493 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: the Missouri State Governor's office that was recorded by her husband. 494 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: But there's more. Take a listen to this. That Eric 495 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: a year ago, and I instantly had a big crush 496 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: on it. She goes on to explain her interactions with 497 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,399 Speaker 1: Grighten's are sometimes it's initiated by herself, and that they 498 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 1: met because she cut his hair. She said she felt 499 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: drawn to talk to the governor, but when he told 500 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 1: her I want you to come over to his home, 501 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: she first said no and wanted to meet for coffee. 502 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 1: You know it's interesting right there, Karen Stark that he says, no, 503 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,800 Speaker 1: I can't meet you for coffee because we would be seen. 504 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: This is wrong, But Karen start New York psychologists joining me. 505 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,879 Speaker 1: Even knowing it was wrong, he continued to do it. 506 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:15,399 Speaker 1: I mean, we've all done things that are wrong, all 507 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 1: of us, including me. Things I wish I had never done, 508 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 1: things I wish I could take back. I guess my 509 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 1: question is, when you have so much to lose and 510 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:33,760 Speaker 1: you're in public life, you know you're gonna get busted, Karen, 511 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,879 Speaker 1: and yet you see Nancy that had happened so all 512 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: the time. It's mind blowing when you considered the fact 513 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 1: that so many people who are in the public eye, 514 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: who are responsible to citizens, knowing that they're running for 515 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: office or that they're in office, go ahead and allow 516 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: things like that to happen, can't app themselves. So they 517 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: are psychologically compelled. I'm not saying there's any kind of 518 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: mental disorder, but they are compelled to do it despite 519 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: the fact that it's a risk that can bring them down. 520 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: And we see it happen all the time, that all 521 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: of a sudden, they're not paying attention to the fact 522 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:25,240 Speaker 1: that they have a responsibility and that this could actually 523 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 1: ruin their careers and ruin their reputation with the people 524 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 1: that they're representing, they're drawn to keep doing it. Back 525 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:39,359 Speaker 1: to Pamela for our Crime Stories, investigative reporter, what more 526 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: do we know? And you said that blackmail is actually 527 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,360 Speaker 1: on the table, that they're investigating blackmail. What's the genesis 528 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: of a blackmail charge? The only thing that uh is 529 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: being reported on the blackmail charges again, the email exchanges 530 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: between the two that the City Attorney's office has, and 531 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: they released that as part of the list of evidence, 532 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 1: thirteen pieces of evidence that they have, including a picture 533 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: of this hair dresser, but it's not the picture that 534 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: everybody is talking about. You had asked earlier if they 535 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,839 Speaker 1: even have that picture. The truth is, we don't know. 536 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,879 Speaker 1: They act as if they do, but we actually don't 537 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: know if they have that picture. As far as blackmail, 538 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: what's leading to that is possibly the conversations between the 539 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:36,279 Speaker 1: two that maybe in those emails, and that they keep saying. 540 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: The investigation is ongoing and there could be more indictments 541 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,760 Speaker 1: handed down. The hairdresser says, the governor taped her hands 542 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 1: to rings, rings that you hold on to um and 543 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: then put a blindfold on her, took a photo of 544 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: her partially nude, and remained and warned her to remain silent. Quote. 545 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: I saw a flash through the blindfold and he said, 546 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,760 Speaker 1: you're never going to mention my name. Now. That's according 547 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: to her. Take a listen to what her husband says, 548 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: who took a picture of my wife naked? As blackmail? 549 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 1: There is no worse person. I think it's as bad 550 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 1: as it gets. I think it's as bad as it 551 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: gets when somebody takes advantage of somebody, you know, what's curious, 552 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:28,720 Speaker 1: Troy Slayton, l a defense lawyer. The statute of limitations 553 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:33,880 Speaker 1: for invasion of privacy Missouri is three years. That means 554 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: that statute was due to expire in less than a month. 555 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: That's some pretty uncanny timing, Troy. I think it is, 556 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:48,399 Speaker 1: and it's smacks of politics that the prosecutor would wait 557 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:54,320 Speaker 1: until the very last minute, actually the eleventh hour, before 558 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: she could file this indictment. And the governor has filed 559 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,279 Speaker 1: a motion to dismiss the indictment on the basis that 560 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:06,320 Speaker 1: any interaction between the two of them was consensual. So 561 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: if if the only evidence that they have of blackmail 562 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 1: or that this was not consensual is her statement, well 563 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: that just doesn't have the ring of truth to it, 564 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: because here we have a woman who's engaging in a 565 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: bondage UH scenario, agreeing to be dominated. This could have 566 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: very well been a part of their entire fantasy interaction together. 567 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:37,440 Speaker 1: This is what sticks out of my mind. The governor, 568 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,399 Speaker 1: as a father of two little boys. Now he came 569 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,880 Speaker 1: into office as a political outsider, which I like a 570 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 1: Rhodes Scarlar. That's not easy. A Navy seal, an officer 571 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 1: who was wounded an a rock? Wow, I mean just 572 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: got Morgan. What better resume? What better background could you have? 573 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:12,239 Speaker 1: A father, a husband, a political outsider, a Rhodes scholar, 574 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: and a Navy seal who was actually wounded in the 575 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: line of duty? Any rock? Yeah, you're right, Nancy, he 576 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 1: it what a better resume? What a better better resume? Also, Uh, 577 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: to to look at it through this light, you should 578 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,840 Speaker 1: have known better. And I think that that's that's what's 579 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,840 Speaker 1: disturbing about this whole thing. You know, the world that 580 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:42,640 Speaker 1: we live in now. Um, you know this, this guy 581 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: is set up. He's everything that you want to be. 582 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,279 Speaker 1: You know, to become a Rhodes scholar in and of 583 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: itself is a monumental task. Uh, to go abroad and 584 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: study in locations like Oxford, UH, and to make it 585 00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,760 Speaker 1: through Navy seal training, to lead men in battle. And 586 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 1: he's also been involved in charitable efforts relative to veterans 587 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,719 Speaker 1: coming home from the war. And I applaud him for 588 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,640 Speaker 1: all of that. But you know, in one one instance, 589 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,359 Speaker 1: in just one blink of an eye, all of that 590 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: can be destroyed by decisions that you make and things 591 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 1: that he should have known better than to have been 592 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: involved in. But again we fall back to our fallback 593 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: position is always wealth their consenting adults, So it's none 594 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,640 Speaker 1: of our business. Well, unfortunately it is our business now 595 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,400 Speaker 1: because he's a public servant. It's in the light of day, 596 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,799 Speaker 1: and everybody's exposed to all of this tawdry, tawdry business. Well, 597 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,400 Speaker 1: I agree that it's chaudry unless it's blackmail, unless a 598 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,960 Speaker 1: photo was taken of her unclosed without her consent. And 599 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,440 Speaker 1: I don't care what she agreed to. If this was 600 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 1: against her consent, it is against her consent. And if 601 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: the prosecutor does believe the photo was against her consent, 602 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 1: it must be process acuted. I know it's a hard sale, 603 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,800 Speaker 1: but if they really believe the photo was against her consent, 604 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,280 Speaker 1: there's no choice. But they must present it to a jury. 605 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 1: In a recording obtain initially by news for, a woman 606 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 1: says she had a sex encounter with Missouri Governor Eric 607 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 1: Grighton's and that he tried to blackmail her to keep 608 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:29,000 Speaker 1: the encounter secret. Interesting choice light in l a defense attorney, 609 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: he has been indicted for allegedly taking the photo, but 610 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 1: not for blackmail, that's right, And so all this talk 611 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:43,440 Speaker 1: about you know what an amazing person he is. Uh, 612 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,279 Speaker 1: we can't forget that. And if it sounds to me 613 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,080 Speaker 1: like this woman would have the motivation to lie to 614 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:55,920 Speaker 1: her husband, who is figuring all this out, and to 615 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 1: say to him, you know, honey, you know he was 616 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:03,400 Speaker 1: blackmailing me. And and and that's sounds to me like 617 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 1: that was her excuse to her husband, and that she 618 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,759 Speaker 1: was trying to look for sympathy from her husband at 619 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 1: that point. Well, we know a little bit about the 620 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:21,200 Speaker 1: emails that may suggest blackmail. Uh. In an October email, 621 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,800 Speaker 1: the hair addresser allegedly sends an email to a Gmail 622 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,919 Speaker 1: account she told her husband she had used to get 623 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:34,319 Speaker 1: in touch with Governor Grayten's and it states allegedly, Eric, 624 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 1: I'm asking you to please consider all who were involved 625 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:41,040 Speaker 1: in the circumstances around us. I need you to not 626 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 1: book at the salon anymore. This isn't fair to me 627 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,279 Speaker 1: nor anyone else close to us. Please respect me and 628 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 1: my wishes. Now, I I don't know that that proves blackmail, 629 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,840 Speaker 1: that she's asking him not to book appointments at the salon. 630 00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 1: That that doesn't really impress me one way or the other. 631 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:04,399 Speaker 1: Troy Slaton, No, that sounds like she's having remorse and 632 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,840 Speaker 1: wants to maybe do the right thing now and doesn't 633 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,919 Speaker 1: want to be forced to be in a situation with 634 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 1: him that has nothing to do with whether or not 635 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:20,600 Speaker 1: he surreptitiously took the photo like her husband surreptitiously recorded her. 636 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,920 Speaker 1: Now the wife has spoken out. Graydon's wife, Shena has stated, 637 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 1: we have a loving marriage and an awesome family. Anything 638 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 1: beyond that is between us and God. I want the 639 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: media and those who wish to peddle gossip to stay 640 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,759 Speaker 1: away from me and my children. Man, she's in a 641 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,560 Speaker 1: bad spot here and start yeah, and there's not too 642 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,719 Speaker 1: much that she can do about it. It sounds it 643 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 1: sounds great, great that she's saying it's, you know, between them, 644 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: and I do agree that it is between them, except 645 00:45:55,200 --> 00:46:00,560 Speaker 1: that he is somebody who's in the public eye, and 646 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 1: it's very hard to say that the media shouldn't be 647 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 1: involved when he took that kind of a risk. Well, 648 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:07,759 Speaker 1: you know, I've also got a question the motives of 649 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 1: a husband that records his wife's conversations. Joe Scott Morrigan, 650 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,320 Speaker 1: I mean, what's his motive other than revenge, hatred, greed, 651 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,600 Speaker 1: get back? I mean, what do you think, Yeah, I know, 652 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 1: we've uh I remember famously the uh there was a 653 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,680 Speaker 1: case and it it uh the name escapes me right 654 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,840 Speaker 1: now done in Florida where you had a fellow that 655 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,480 Speaker 1: was taping the sexual encounters of his wife, uh to 656 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,799 Speaker 1: that was actually used as as blackmail towards the individuals 657 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,319 Speaker 1: that they would target. So you know that brings up 658 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,799 Speaker 1: that raises a completely different specter uh in this whole 659 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,200 Speaker 1: thing as well. You know, what is his motivation or 660 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,759 Speaker 1: is it financial gain? Uh? Is it just him? Is 661 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:56,279 Speaker 1: it some kind of uh paraphilia he has uh you know, 662 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,960 Speaker 1: sexually directed to these these events that his wife has engaged. 663 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, it leaves it leaves a big, huge 664 00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,440 Speaker 1: open swath for you know, kind of filling the blank 665 00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,600 Speaker 1: year as we go forward. Is this indictment the real 666 00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:13,440 Speaker 1: thing or is it just more political trickery Nancy. The 667 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,279 Speaker 1: first step in a possible impeachment of the governor was 668 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,560 Speaker 1: taken Tuesday, as a Missouri State House committee met for 669 00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,360 Speaker 1: the first time it's in its investigation of the scandal. 670 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:27,200 Speaker 1: The bipartisan committee has forty days to call witnesses with 671 00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:31,400 Speaker 1: subpoenas and to prepare a report that depending on what 672 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:36,040 Speaker 1: they find, could lead to impeachment proceedings against Governor Grden's 673 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:40,320 Speaker 1: Michigan Republican Party officials say that they've created a new 674 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:45,759 Speaker 1: nonprofit in order to raise money to help the embattled 675 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:51,359 Speaker 1: Missouri governor with his legal expenses. Also, supporters of Gridens 676 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,839 Speaker 1: have started a legal defense fund privately, and on the 677 00:47:55,880 --> 00:48:00,239 Speaker 1: flip side of that, there's a veterans charity founded by 678 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:05,160 Speaker 1: a Gratans that says they'll now support an attorney general's 679 00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:10,200 Speaker 1: inquiry into whether the misuse of our resources by the 680 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:16,760 Speaker 1: Gratans campaign took place. Nancy Grace crime Stories, Goodbye Friend,