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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From house Stop works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Caroline and I'm Kristin kristen Um. I

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Speaker 1: moved back to Atlanta, as you know, from Augusta and

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Speaker 1: Georgia almost two years ago. And there was something, there's

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Speaker 1: something missing because I've been in Augusta for for a

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Speaker 1: couple of years, four years, and so I had I

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Speaker 1: had a really good close network of friends, girlfriends and

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Speaker 1: guy friends. But it was nice to have a good

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Speaker 1: solid group of girlfriends. And and something happened when I

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Speaker 1: moved to Atlanta, and I realized that it was harder

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Speaker 1: to just make girlfriends out of thin air. Almost it

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Speaker 1: seems like I have an easier time making guy friends.

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Speaker 1: But you know, there's something about being older. You're out

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Speaker 1: of college, and everybody's got their social groups. And so

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Speaker 1: when I moved back to Atlanta, I was like, where

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Speaker 1: old girls well girlfriends? And I am not the only

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Speaker 1: one who feels like sometimes it's harder to make friends

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Speaker 1: than maybe to meet a romantic partner. Right, I experienced

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Speaker 1: a very similar thing. When I moved to Atlanta from Athens, Georgia.

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Speaker 1: It was such an excursion along seventy miles up the road,

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Speaker 1: but it really felt like a dating process to try

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Speaker 1: to make friends because there was someone who's now my

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Speaker 1: my roommate, this one girl in particular, where I was like,

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Speaker 1: she's super cool. I want to be her friend. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I hope she likes what I'm wearing. Uh yeah. And

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Speaker 1: that this is sort of the basis for the book

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Speaker 1: UH MWF Seeking BFF Year Long Search for a New

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Speaker 1: Best Friend by Rachel Birch. And this this author relocated

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Speaker 1: from Chicago to New York and left behind her whole

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Speaker 1: social network. She she moved with her fiance or the

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Speaker 1: man who would become her fiance, and now they're married,

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Speaker 1: and so she has all this stuff, this great life

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Speaker 1: going on, but she looks around and realizes, I don't

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Speaker 1: have anybody to call if I want to go get

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Speaker 1: brunch or have a glass of wine or you know,

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Speaker 1: talk about my day, anybody besides my fiancee. And so

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Speaker 1: she goes on this quest she decides as a married

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Speaker 1: white female, which is MWF Seeking BFF Best Friend. Uh.

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Speaker 1: She goes on fifty two friend dates in a year.

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Speaker 1: That's that's a friend date a week for those of

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Speaker 1: you who don't know how long a year is. UM.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting her experiences. She comes up with a

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Speaker 1: lot of good advice. And it's kind of what Kristen

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Speaker 1: was talking about. You know, you developed these almost crushes

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Speaker 1: on other girls because I mean it's naturally You're like, Wow,

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Speaker 1: that person is really cool. How do I get to

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Speaker 1: know them better? How do we how do we hang

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Speaker 1: out in real life outside of work or outside of whatever,

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Speaker 1: the train or wherever. I don't know where you meet people,

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Speaker 1: but it's clear, I mean clearly have no friends, because

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Speaker 1: I still to this day no friends. UM. Some of

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Speaker 1: her advice just ask the person out to hang out, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: do you want to go do something fun? Let's go

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Speaker 1: get coffee, um. But just swap narratives, not just grilling

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Speaker 1: the person with questions, right, because a lot of those

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Speaker 1: initial friendships that you'll have with other women on that

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Speaker 1: first friend date is so similar to a first romantic dates.

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Speaker 1: Some awkward silences, some twiddling of the thumbs. You ask

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Speaker 1: about families, you'll probably talk about jobs. But the good

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Speaker 1: thing is about female first dates, first friend dates. Is

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Speaker 1: that it is okay to talk about past relationships. It

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Speaker 1: is there's a bonus. And if you guys don't click,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to be stuck together. I mean, not

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Speaker 1: that you have to be stuck together after a first

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Speaker 1: date romantic date either. But you're like, well, I guess

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Speaker 1: I can just save her for when I'm born. That's Caroline.

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Speaker 1: That sounds very friend of me, of you, frenemy, I

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Speaker 1: would never are you insinuating something about friendship over here?

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Speaker 1: I am insinuating. Uh well, I'll just state it. You know,

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Speaker 1: I won't do a friend of me ish thing and

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Speaker 1: insinuate I will state that. Uh. There is that the

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Speaker 1: sweet side of female friendship, which which is like getting

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Speaker 1: to know you in building that bond um. But then

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Speaker 1: there is the flip side that I feel like has

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Speaker 1: been way over exposed in popular culture in the past

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Speaker 1: five to ten years, which is the friend of me,

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Speaker 1: which is the whole that's when words like caddy come

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Speaker 1: out and caddy. But but you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I feel like ever since mean girls, which I love,

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Speaker 1: was such a sensation, all of a sudden, every woman

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Speaker 1: is a secret friend of me. So at the other

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Speaker 1: end of the spectrum from m f W or n

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Speaker 1: WF speaking BFF, we have things like The Twisted Sisterhood,

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Speaker 1: a raveling the dark legacy of female friendships that sounds terrifying.

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Speaker 1: It's by Kelly Valen. It got a lot of press

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Speaker 1: because it's about this just heart wrenching process that she

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Speaker 1: went through in a sorority in which she was completely

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Speaker 1: stripped of any faith whatsoever in female friendships because girls

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Speaker 1: be mean. Jeez, Well, it sounds like she's meeting the

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Speaker 1: wrong people because I don't. I don't think I've ever

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Speaker 1: been stripped of anything. Well, well, it's the whole argument

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Speaker 1: that since women's friendships, one on one friendships are so

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Speaker 1: emotionally binding, because we do tend to share so much

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Speaker 1: of ourselves compared to men, which we'll talk about in

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Speaker 1: a later podcast, we tend to have more activity based

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Speaker 1: friendships that since you get to know each other on

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Speaker 1: such a deep level, that they can hurt you even more. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course, I mean, obviously, if you have genuine friendships

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Speaker 1: with people, you have a good foundation for your friendship

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Speaker 1: and it's not built on maybe competition or social standing,

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Speaker 1: then those are your safe friendships that actually help you mentally,

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Speaker 1: emotionally and all that stuff. But yeah, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: feel like everybody has had at least one friend at

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Speaker 1: some point who you can classify as a friend of

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Speaker 1: me who has tried to undermine you or only wants

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Speaker 1: to hear about when things are going wrong with you,

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Speaker 1: not like, yeah, you cheer you on, you've got a

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Speaker 1: new job, or you gotta I don't know whatever reward

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Speaker 1: of some kind. Uh, you know, they just want to

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Speaker 1: know about when you're down in the dump so they

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Speaker 1: can commiserate, right. Or the friend who will only call

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Speaker 1: you up when things are going poorly and needs a

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Speaker 1: listening ear a big emotion dump, right, and and all

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Speaker 1: of those things I think are just part of the

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Speaker 1: female friend spectrum. But the big question I have is,

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Speaker 1: you know, why does it seem like female friendships in

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Speaker 1: particular are sort of, um, I don't know, boxed up

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Speaker 1: in stereotype like that and maybe devalued a little bit,

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Speaker 1: Because I think at the end of the day, there

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Speaker 1: is really something to be said for that really true

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Speaker 1: BFF girlfriend, the girl who you can turn to, the

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Speaker 1: girl who will tell you the truth, and not in

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Speaker 1: a mean way, not in a in a front of

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Speaker 1: me way like, oh, yeah, I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: should wear the pants they kind of make your asp

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Speaker 1: with it, or maybe you shouldn't wear those pants. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how don't be honest, that'd be nice about it with

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Speaker 1: with good intentions behind the telling you to not wear

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Speaker 1: the pants. Um, but something that was pretty eye opening

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Speaker 1: when I was reading all this stuff about female friendship. Um,

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Speaker 1: because I feel like this is stuff that's pretty common sense. However,

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Speaker 1: I had no idea the biological drives behind some of

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Speaker 1: our our habits and our desires as far as friendship goes,

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Speaker 1: both same sex and opposite sex friendships. But um, you

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Speaker 1: know you're talking about how how female friendship can kind

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Speaker 1: of be looked down upon sometimes like women be shopping,

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Speaker 1: they're just talking about shoes again. Well, well, how about

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Speaker 1: this this quick snippet, This was from a summary of research.

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Speaker 1: I'll be a little bit dated on friendship. Ronveig Trousse,

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Speaker 1: the Daughter observed history does not celebrate female friendships, and

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Speaker 1: there is a longstanding myth of the greatest friendships have

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Speaker 1: been between men. Yeah, buddy comedies. Yeah, whereas they're just

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Speaker 1: a little bit different, right, Women have a different drive

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Speaker 1: as far as seeking seeking relationships and seeking comfort we

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Speaker 1: as we'll get into momentarily women and and a lot

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Speaker 1: of female animals. This is sort of across cultures, across species.

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Speaker 1: Women when they are stressed seek uh the association of others.

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Speaker 1: They seek to be part of a group for safety,

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Speaker 1: for comfort, for stress release, and um, we sort of

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Speaker 1: talked about that in a path podcast. It's called tend

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Speaker 1: and befriend. Where men have more of a uh, fight

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Speaker 1: or flight response to stress, women have similar a similar

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Speaker 1: release of chemicals driving us to do things when we

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Speaker 1: were stressed, but they sort of drive us together as

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Speaker 1: opposed to apart. Right, And this was from a pretty

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Speaker 1: groundbreaking U c L A study published in the year

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Speaker 1: two thousand UH in Psychological Review, And it was groundbreaking

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Speaker 1: because it was related to stress and specifically related to

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Speaker 1: the biochemical markers of female stress, which up until around

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Speaker 1: had been so understudied. I think the statistic was only

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Speaker 1: seventeen percent of study participants in stress related physiological stress

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Speaker 1: studies were women. So it really wasn't until the two

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Speaker 1: thousands that were starting to get this kind of information

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Speaker 1: and they found that, like you said, Caroline, in response

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Speaker 1: to stress, women tend and befriend, and we actually tap

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Speaker 1: into female social support and networks to manage stressful conditions

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Speaker 1: because of evolution. Evolution, everybody, yes, um, a mother's flight

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Speaker 1: or attack on a predator could leave her offspring fatally unattended.

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Speaker 1: So back in the day, I mean, if a mother

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Speaker 1: had the same instinct as the male to go attack

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Speaker 1: the predator, she'd leave her baby behind and that could

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Speaker 1: be eaten or stolen away in the night, who knows what.

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Speaker 1: And so the mother's desire to go back to her

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Speaker 1: offspring soothe it, take care of it, take it to

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Speaker 1: a safe place. That's sort of that's that's continued through

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Speaker 1: in our desire to tend and befriend and building on

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Speaker 1: that physiological framework of friendship. There's also the important role

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Speaker 1: of oxytocin, which is enhanced by estrogen, and what the

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Speaker 1: researchers found was that oxytocin is really related to relationship

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Speaker 1: stress and attachment needs. Now we've talked about oxytocin in

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Speaker 1: the podcast before in terms of what's happening in your

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Speaker 1: brain deering an orgasm, it's released. It's a bonding neurochemical.

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Speaker 1: So it seemed counterintuitive at first to hear that or

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Speaker 1: read that oxytocin might be related to feeling relationship gaps,

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Speaker 1: but you can more think of it as a driver

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Speaker 1: to build those networks, and it has a more potent

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Speaker 1: effect in females because of the influence of estrogen. Right,

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Speaker 1: speaking of chemicals, females largely lack androgens, which in many

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Speaker 1: species act to develop the male brain for aggression and

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Speaker 1: then activate aggressive behavior in specific threatening context. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know this U c l A analysis talked about

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Speaker 1: how boys from a very young age or more boys

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Speaker 1: human boys and young male primates animal boys, animal boy

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Speaker 1: if it felt like Peter Pan or something um are

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Speaker 1: more prone to develop rough and tumble play than girls.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we talked about in the Men Versus

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Speaker 1: Women Exercise podcast about how on the playground, boys are

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Speaker 1: more likely to form these big groups and play games

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Speaker 1: like football, soccer, whatever, whereas girls are more likely to

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Speaker 1: hang back in smaller groups and and play maybe verbal

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Speaker 1: games like you know we mentioned mash um And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: these these uh androgen's, specifically testosterone, are are driving boys

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Speaker 1: to play rough basically, whereas women are more nurturing. And

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Speaker 1: it might also have to do something with something else

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Speaker 1: going on in our brain. This was mentioned in an

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Speaker 1: article by Victoria Costello in Psychology Today, and she attributes

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Speaker 1: some of that um instant friendship building that tends to

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Speaker 1: happen more often among women two more mirror neurons in

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Speaker 1: the female rain, and these neurons are responsible for us

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Speaker 1: paying attention to and empathizing with what's going on with

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Speaker 1: the person sitting across from us. Right right now, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at Caroline and she's just blinking and smiling,

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Speaker 1: smiling sweetly at me, And that's that's making me smile. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's also making her a little uncomfortable because my face

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Speaker 1: looks weird right now. Um yeah. Victoria Costello, you know,

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Speaker 1: brings up the whole women empathy, women's intuition thing and

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Speaker 1: says that most of these clues go right by men, so,

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Speaker 1: you know, sorry for those empathetic men who feel like

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Speaker 1: you can pick up on clues, but Costello says that

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Speaker 1: women are just better at it because we have more

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Speaker 1: mirroring neurons. She also talks about hormones that you know

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Speaker 1: and and like you touched on, we have more estrogen

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Speaker 1: and a greater default level of oxy tosin, and of

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Speaker 1: course we've talked about evolution a little bit. But here's

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Speaker 1: the thing though, with Costello's whole thesis on the fact

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Speaker 1: that she says that you can leave two women who

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Speaker 1: have never met in a busy doctor's waiting room, and

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Speaker 1: by the time they're called for their appointments, they know

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Speaker 1: each other's life story and have traded phone numbers. And

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Speaker 1: she also says that thanks to that estrogen and the oxytocin,

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Speaker 1: it makes us want to bond at the mere touch

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Speaker 1: of hand, and that is really sweet. And maybe I

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Speaker 1: have low high levels of and androgens and low levels

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Speaker 1: of oxytocin because that I'm I'm not a hugger. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not either. I don't want strangers to touch me.

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Speaker 1: I don't like people getting too close to me on

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Speaker 1: the train. And it's not that I'm not friendly. I

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Speaker 1: just think it might be an example that, yes, we

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Speaker 1: we are everyone. Friendships are are unique. They're like snowflakes. Sure, okay,

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Speaker 1: they're all They're all kind of different. I think we

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Speaker 1: all make friends a little bit differently. And I don't

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Speaker 1: want anyone to be offended that if they run into me.

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Speaker 1: The guy know, I'm probably just gonna read my vanity fair.

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Speaker 1: It's funny, Kristen, I was actually thinking the same thing

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Speaker 1: reading some of this, Like, God, judging by this research,

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Speaker 1: I should really be like all over my female friends

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Speaker 1: and we should be holding hands right now, which should

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Speaker 1: be remind me to do that later. Um, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: should have more female friends and we should all be

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Speaker 1: hugging all the time. But I'm really not like that.

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Speaker 1: And I actually was thinking about it, and I have

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Speaker 1: just always had more male friends than female friends. I mean,

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Speaker 1: in college, I feel like I had a big group

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Speaker 1: of female friends because you know, living in the dorm

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Speaker 1: and and whatever, you make a lot of friends that way,

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Speaker 1: synchronizing menstrual cycle. And I was I started to really wonder,

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Speaker 1: if you know, it's something wrong with me that I

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Speaker 1: I don't seem to bond with women in the same

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Speaker 1: way that these studies are saying I should. And then

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Speaker 1: I started really worrying about myself because so we released

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Speaker 1: all these chemicals during stress, and in a study on

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Speaker 1: reesless monkeys, scientists blocked some of those stress chemicals by

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Speaker 1: using in the lock zone and opioid antagonist and ended

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Speaker 1: up reduced seeing the monkey's maternal behavior in social grooming. So,

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Speaker 1: of course I start googling that in the lock zone,

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Speaker 1: wondering like, oh my god, do I have a shortage

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Speaker 1: of something of opioid antagonists in my Do I need

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Speaker 1: to take a pill so that I hug people? And

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, And then a study found that giving women

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Speaker 1: nel truck zone a long acting opioid antagonists caused them

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Speaker 1: to increase their time alone, reduced time with friends, and

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Speaker 1: it reduced the very pleasantness of women's social interaction. But

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Speaker 1: think about what that opioid antagonist is doing in your brain.

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Speaker 1: It's preventing you from responding to opiates, which are usually

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Speaker 1: uh involved with our brain's reward system, and also endorphins,

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Speaker 1: which tend to based you up, Yeah, lift us up.

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Speaker 1: So maybe it's just your friendship is lifting me higher. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't really know how that's supposed to be comforting

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Speaker 1: to you. Uh, but maybe it's just that are obviously

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Speaker 1: neurochemical levels and all of our brains are a little

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Speaker 1: bit different. They're all different, and you know, yeah, friendships

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Speaker 1: are unique and it depends on the person too. And

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Speaker 1: it's also I mean, it's it's a grain of salt

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Speaker 1: thing too to take with this kind of research, because

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Speaker 1: did you and I make friends because at some point

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Speaker 1: we weren't going to want to abandon our babies we

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Speaker 1: might have in the future. I mean it was on

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Speaker 1: my brain so that we could go to Jim Boree later. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: now I'm pretty I don't know. It was probably like, hey,

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Speaker 1: that cool, that girl, that girls cool, she has nice bangs.

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Speaker 1: So moving away from the brain and all of these

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Speaker 1: chemicals that might be a little more difficult to relate

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Speaker 1: to um in terms of real world friendship interactions. The

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Speaker 1: fact that Rachel Birch in her what was a mid

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Speaker 1: twenties or early thirties, was looking for a new crop

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Speaker 1: of friends. There was another column that we found by

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Speaker 1: Carrie Shane Parvin who had an essay written about in

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Speaker 1: being in her early forties and looking for new girlfriends.

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Speaker 1: And according to other studies, this is from an article

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Speaker 1: in the Wall Street Journal by Jeffreys Aslow looking at

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Speaker 1: gender differences in friendship patterns. Studies have shown that in

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Speaker 1: our late twenties and thirties, women have a harder time

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Speaker 1: staying in touch with old friends because we're busy starting

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Speaker 1: our careers, were raising children, and we don't have time

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Speaker 1: for getting together every night to hang out um. And

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Speaker 1: then by the time you reach your forties, you might

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Speaker 1: have a little more time opened up because your kids

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Speaker 1: are in school, they have their extracurriculars. Some might be

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Speaker 1: out of the house by them, and you look around

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Speaker 1: and you haven't done a good job tending and befriending.

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Speaker 1: And maybe we feel worse about it than men do,

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Speaker 1: just because of our biological drives. Because of that, we

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Speaker 1: think there's something wrong. Whereas a man's like, yeah, I'm busy,

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Speaker 1: I'm doing work, I have a family, you know whatever,

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Speaker 1: I have hobbies, it's fine, he might not. And you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously this is a realization and just a hypothesis of

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Speaker 1: my you know, but maybe men are thinking, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's okay, I'll catch up with them over the game sometime.

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Speaker 1: That maybe women just have that drive to be like,

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Speaker 1: this is not normal. Where are my girlfriends? I need

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Speaker 1: a glass of wine and to hang out and and

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Speaker 1: find out what's going on with her. And I think

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Speaker 1: understanding more about that that's biological stress response really explains

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Speaker 1: why there might be more of that pressure. Yeah, it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting to google female friendships and find the number

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Speaker 1: of dating like websites that come up. We apparently need

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Speaker 1: a lot of help from the internet. I had no idea.

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Speaker 1: I have never googled female friendships before. Well, I think

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Speaker 1: it's tougher to make friends in general today because everyone

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Speaker 1: is so busy and so in moving around constantly. And

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Speaker 1: it's tough to make friends in your mid twenties when

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Speaker 1: everyone is busy either building their career or they're settling

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Speaker 1: down for long term relationships where they might have had

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Speaker 1: first kids. You know, it's it's a it's a challenging

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Speaker 1: be a challenging time, and it takes time to build

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Speaker 1: those friendships. Yeah, you gotta have follow through. Yeah you

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Speaker 1: actually have to call people and say how you're doing right,

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Speaker 1: But making a friend of me you can do that. No.

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Speaker 1: I think a friend of mine put it very well

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Speaker 1: when he said that, you know, you can be stressed

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Speaker 1: at work, you can be stressed in traffic, you know,

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Speaker 1: but you shouldn't be stressed in your friendships. And so

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Speaker 1: I you know, I hope that for those of you

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Speaker 1: who have one or more in front of me, is

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Speaker 1: that maybe you either have a heavible talk or maybe

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Speaker 1: it's time to get rid of toxic friendships. And speaking

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Speaker 1: of friend of me for a fun little knowledge nugget.

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Speaker 1: The Oxford Word blog sites Walter Winschell as the first

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Speaker 1: person to use a friend of me, I guess in

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Speaker 1: a public forum. He used it in a nineteen fifty

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Speaker 1: three newspapers like it's not talking about Real housewives of

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Speaker 1: it Anna right, right, And I think that's part of

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Speaker 1: I mean, speaking of real housewives. The whole reality franchise

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Speaker 1: thrives on female freenemies, and that's something that Nicole Roger

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Speaker 1: is writing for the Huffington Post, talks about how we've

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Speaker 1: had um, you know, all of these caddy shallow women

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Speaker 1: portrayed almost formulaically now on television. And on the other side,

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Speaker 1: we've got the rise of the bromance. Oh I love

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Speaker 1: you man, that's so sweet. Yeah, Like suddenly it's it's

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Speaker 1: okay for for men on these reality TV shows to

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Speaker 1: be all about each other. But it's which is great. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm yeah, absolutely, I'm not saying it's not, but it's

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Speaker 1: it's at the same time, we're like, oh, well, we

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Speaker 1: value these same sex male relationships, but when women get together,

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Speaker 1: they're just gonna be angry and fight all the time.

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Speaker 1: That's normal, right, Yeah, they're either Gabby or Catty. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't like that. I don't like it either, But

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Speaker 1: to end this podcast on a positive note about female friendships,

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Speaker 1: because I'm sure you feel the same way, Caroline. I

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Speaker 1: have some just dear female friendships that I wouldn't trade

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Speaker 1: for all the podcasts in the world. Um. There was

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Speaker 1: a post representation from three psychologists at the University of

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Speaker 1: Nevada and Las Vegas analyzing the sex differences in friendship

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Speaker 1: and they used a best friend questionnaire to measure how

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Speaker 1: people describe equality of their friendships and come to find out, women,

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Speaker 1: at least in how they described them, viewed their friendship

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Speaker 1: relationships more positively than men did. Yeah, they used warmer,

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Speaker 1: more intimate descriptors um warm being one of them and

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Speaker 1: also caring and loving. They rated those words very highly.

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Speaker 1: As far as describing their relationships, men's highest ratings went

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Speaker 1: to comfortable, friendly, and supportive, which I think is an

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Speaker 1: interesting split and it makes a lot of sense thinking

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Speaker 1: about the male friendships that I have and the intra

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Speaker 1: male friendships that I've witnessed. UM, So, frenemies or not,

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Speaker 1: Despite whatever kind of cultural stereotypes are out there, women

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Speaker 1: really value their friendships It's nothing to put down or

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Speaker 1: roll your eyes at when groups of women are friends

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Speaker 1: with each other and go out with each other just

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Speaker 1: because women have different emotional needs as far as relationship goes.

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Speaker 1: That's that's not anything to poo poo. We're indulging in

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Speaker 1: a little bit of oxytocin. Yeah, ear me alone, let

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Speaker 1: us do that. But next time, guys, you are not

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Speaker 1: off the hook. We're going to talk about male to

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Speaker 1: male friendships because there are some fascinating patterns among your

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Speaker 1: bonding habits as well, so be sure to tune in

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Speaker 1: for that. And in the meantime, ladies, let us know

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Speaker 1: about your friendships. What do you think about I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you have the most special friend in the world.

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Speaker 1: Let us know all of your friendship stories or a

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Speaker 1: frenemy story. What to you is a frenemy? And also

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Speaker 1: among guys, do male frenemies happen to m good question?

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Speaker 1: Lots of questions that I have. Answer them all at

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Speaker 1: Mom's Stuff at how stuff works dot com. And we

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Speaker 1: got a couple of emails to share with you as well. Okay,

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Speaker 1: this email is from Katie. I just listened to your

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Speaker 1: Martha Stewart episode and wanted to tell you about my

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Speaker 1: favorite Martha incarnation. She was on an episode of The

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Speaker 1: Simpsons where she helped Marge make over the house for Christmas.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the episode, though March, Marge realized

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Speaker 1: that her family was miserable living in the perfect wasp

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Speaker 1: middle class lifestyle and asked Martha to change everything back.

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Speaker 1: She does so by waiving her magic wand which she

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Speaker 1: made herself out of an old car antenna, which she

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Speaker 1: baked in the tears of a leprecn at three fifty

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Speaker 1: degrees until a rainbow shot out the end. Personally, I'm

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Speaker 1: not a fan of Martha, but I absolutely love this episode,

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Speaker 1: and if she voiced the character, which I think she does,

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Speaker 1: I admire her for being able to make fun of

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Speaker 1: herself and also for her incredible business success. All right,

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Speaker 1: I've got one here from Judy, and this is in

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Speaker 1: response to our sex Ed podcast subject line sex Said

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Speaker 1: circa nineteen seventy nine, which I knew was going to

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Speaker 1: be a good one when I saw that subject line.

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Speaker 1: She writes, we had a seventh grade health class with

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Speaker 1: both boys and girls in it, and ganoia and syphilis

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00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 1: were covered in a clinical way. We had a spelling

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00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: test of clinical terms for male and female body parts,

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00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 1: but no descriptions really of what name was for what

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00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: part or what the parts did. That's confusing. We also

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00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: saw a short film in which a completely naked woman

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00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: had a physical, including the doctor doing a breast exam,

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00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 1: although there was no shot from the business in of

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00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: the vaginal exam. Thank goodness. The short film humiliated every

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00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: girl in the class and either turned the boys on

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00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: or gave them something to make fun of. No representation

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00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: of the male body was ever covered in film, photo

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00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 1: or even a drawing. So thank you Judy, and thanks

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00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,920
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