Speaker 1: Hi everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Hello friends,
Speaker 1: I am so amped about today's guest. She is one
Speaker 1: of my favorite comedians, authors, philosophers on life, and she
Speaker 1: happens to be here today to talk about her seventh book,
Speaker 1: I'll Have What She's Having. Today's guest is Chelsea Hammler.
Speaker 1: Chelsea has always been surprisingly vulnerable and incredibly outrageous, and
Speaker 1: in this book she is capturing the antic, filled, exhilarating
Speaker 1: and joyful life that she's led and that she's built.
Speaker 1: It's definitely a life that makes me think, Yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: have what she's having. From talking about family, loss, grief, relationships,
Speaker 1: and child good she is really sharing how she's discovered
Speaker 1: across this landscape, how to spend time with herself, how
Speaker 1: to meditate, how to be open to love, and how
Speaker 1: to end a relationship with dignity. She is a sister
Speaker 1: to so many of us and to so many of
Speaker 1: the women who rely on her, and I can't wait
Speaker 1: to talk about the new book, turning fifty and her
Speaker 1: palpable sense of joy. Hi guys, Hi, Kittie the duty.
Speaker 2: I'm just up here icing my shoulder.
Speaker 1: What happened?
Speaker 2: A mess? I'm just a mess.
Speaker 1: Did you have a ski fall? What's going on?
Speaker 2: Oh No, I'm too good of a skier for something
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 3: Oh, I had an infection in my shoulder and I
Speaker 3: had it to get surgery line in my arm where
Speaker 3: I get an infusion of antibiotics every twenty four hours
Speaker 3: for four weeks. No, girl, Yeah, it's serious business over here,
Speaker 3: serious disease, infectious business.
Speaker 1: Well are they also giving you stem cells? Why does
Speaker 1: your skin look like this? What's going on? You look gorgeous.
Speaker 1: I mean you always look gorgeous, but like you're extra glowy.
Speaker 3: Probably because I've spent about two hours a day in
Speaker 3: a hyperbaric chain.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's what I need to start doing chamber glow.
Speaker 4: Girl.
Speaker 1: Great, it's almost your birthday.
Speaker 2: I know I'm gonna be the big one.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I can't wait. I want to do Coast
Speaker 1: to coast. I'm ready.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, let's go.
Speaker 1: I'm ready. We're gonna bring your your raging, dancing, cheering section.
Speaker 1: I can't wait.
Speaker 3: I know I'm gonna celebrate this year. I'm just gonna
Speaker 3: celebrate all year long. I mean, especially with the backup
Speaker 3: we're living in you know, we've just got to look up. Okay,
Speaker 3: look up, look for the bright the rainbows in the sky.
Speaker 1: You have to. And you know, I started to realize
Speaker 1: it's like I get so much creativity and joy and
Speaker 1: thoughtfulness from our community, from friends, from cooking for people,
Speaker 1: from gathering people. And I realized recently I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to start not just being a
Speaker 1: sort of signal booster of the news like online. I
Speaker 1: think I actually have to start. I don't even know
Speaker 1: how to do this. I'm like, I'm not an influencer.
Speaker 1: I think I need to bring like just some purely joyful,
Speaker 1: dumb shit to Instagram just to help counterbalance the fire
Speaker 1: hose of nightmarishness that we're all on the receiving end of.
Speaker 3: It's pretty astounding what we're meant to, you know, deal
Speaker 3: with and the amount of information coming at us. But yeah,
Speaker 3: we got to focus on doubling down on love and
Speaker 3: being there for the people that really need us the most,
Speaker 3: and even for people who don't you know, people you
Speaker 3: know and people you don't know, but just ye show
Speaker 3: up in a different way, extra extra kind, extra love.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like we can rage against the machine and
Speaker 1: then we need to be very teddy bearish with each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, you know about teddy bear.
Speaker 1: To me just a little. I want to bring some
Speaker 1: people some joy and laughter today. And you know, because
Speaker 1: you've been on the pod before, I love to talk
Speaker 1: to people about you know, do you see versions of
Speaker 1: who you are in your childhood self? You've answered that
Speaker 1: question for me already, So what I would like is
Speaker 1: for you to take us back to a childhood story.
Speaker 1: But it was one I've had the good fortune of
Speaker 1: seeing you tall a few times on stage, and it
Speaker 1: is a highlight in the book for me as a
Speaker 1: reader anyway, as well, when you talk about how you
Speaker 1: realized that you wanted to make money, so lemonade stand
Speaker 1: seemed obvious, and then you had a really, i would
Speaker 1: revolutionarily entrepreneurial idea for a ten year old. Can you
Speaker 1: tell the folks at home what you realized?
Speaker 3: But yeah, I started a lemonade stand when I realized
Speaker 3: my parents had no financial plan for themselves, never mind me.
Speaker 3: And I was already kind of disgruntled when I was born,
Speaker 3: seeing that there were so many other children in my family.
Speaker 3: There were five other brothers and sisters, and I'm like
Speaker 3: this is expensive, Like how can we even afford this?
Speaker 3: And then I was like, oh my god, this is
Speaker 3: my family.
Speaker 2: I can't believe I'm stuck with these people. So as
Speaker 2: early as I could, I started.
Speaker 3: I was just trying constantly thinking of like schemes and
Speaker 3: ways to make money or how I could employ myself
Speaker 3: at and you know, as an underage entrepreneur. So I
Speaker 3: lemonade stand like many people do you know lemonade business.
Speaker 3: Obviously that's like, you know, low hanging fruit. And then
Speaker 3: I just was like, this isn't a lot of money,
Speaker 3: you know, Like I think we made like thirteen or
Speaker 3: fourteen dollars in one day. And then I was like,
Speaker 3: you know what we should do is just amp this up.
Speaker 3: There's an opportunity for a bigger profit of margin if
Speaker 3: we made it a hard lemonade stand. Then I got
Speaker 3: some gin, whiskey and tequila obviously from my parents' house,
Speaker 3: and I listed another ten year old who lived on
Speaker 3: ours who was renting in the neighborhood that we were in,
Speaker 3: and I think his name was Nelson, Yeah, and I called,
Speaker 3: I knocked on doors.
Speaker 2: I'd be like, Hi, my name is Chelsea Handler. I'm
Speaker 2: an entrepreneur.
Speaker 3: I'm looking for another, you know, ten year old, eight
Speaker 3: to ten year old to.
Speaker 2: Be in business with me.
Speaker 3: I'd like to partner with someone, and brought Nelson out.
Speaker 3: I started grooming Nelson right away. I brought him to
Speaker 3: our lemonade stand. I'm like, do you know how to
Speaker 3: make like a whiskey soda? Like you need to figure
Speaker 3: this out because we're going to have lots of customers.
Speaker 3: And we made a killing. We made so much money
Speaker 3: because the parents started drinking. I said, you can't serve
Speaker 3: anyone alcohol that's under ten. You know, obviously I have
Speaker 3: some standards. But we made a killing. And I remember
Speaker 3: after the first week, like word had spread like wildfire,
Speaker 3: like everyone was coming to our lemonade stand on Martha's Vineyard.
Speaker 3: And obviously now I know it's because we were the
Speaker 3: only hard lemonade stand and they and we made like
Speaker 3: three hundred and fifty nine dollars I think was the
Speaker 3: number that we made in our first week.
Speaker 2: Nine dollars.
Speaker 3: And then I gave Nelson his commission, which was three
Speaker 3: dollars and fifty nine cents, and he was floored.
Speaker 2: He was like thank you.
Speaker 3: He's like wow, I feel like I'm like, you have Nelson,
Speaker 3: Stick with me, Stick with me, and I'll show you
Speaker 3: the way.
Speaker 1: Incredible, incredible. I would imagine that half the people who
Speaker 1: rolled up were really excited to get sassed by a
Speaker 1: ten year old at the same time they were getting
Speaker 1: a cocktail.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, I've had a lot of you know, piston
Speaker 3: vinegar that I was spewing from a very young age.
Speaker 3: Even as a very young child, even when I was
Speaker 3: two and three years old, I felt like a woman,
Speaker 3: like I felt like a woman like I wanted to be.
Speaker 2: I wanted a briefcase, I wanted a suit, I wanted.
Speaker 3: Heels, and I wanted wanted a business, like I just
Speaker 3: wanted to own a business. And I remember being so
Speaker 3: frustrated being a child. I just wanted to grow up,
Speaker 3: Like I just I hated the idea of being so
Speaker 3: dependent and on my parents and being so tired to them,
Speaker 3: and and I.
Speaker 4: Just I just could not wait. I knew that I
Speaker 4: knew better, you know what I mean, like worse. You know,
Speaker 4: if I was we're the one in charge of finances,
Speaker 4: we would be fine. So like I just wanted to
Speaker 4: start that as quickly as possible.
Speaker 1: I love it. I feel like our little kid selves
Speaker 1: would have been friends. I did the same thing, like
Speaker 1: by the time I was eight, I looked at my
Speaker 1: parents and I was like, I love you both. You're
Speaker 1: fucking lunatics. I'm I got to make other plans, Like
Speaker 1: I just I don't know. I think there's something about
Speaker 1: some little girls that come into the world like grown ups,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad that so many of us have found
Speaker 1: each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's for sure. I agree with that.
Speaker 3: And I think that there are so many like minded
Speaker 3: so many more like minded people, you know. That's what
Speaker 3: LA and New York and places like where we live are,
Speaker 3: you know, a melting pot of so many different types
Speaker 3: of people.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I take a lot of pride, and.
Speaker 3: It makes me very happy, I guess, less prideful, more
Speaker 3: happy to be connecting with like like, for instance, so
Speaker 3: many other women who don't want to be mothers or
Speaker 3: don't want to be who really don't even see that
Speaker 3: as like part of their future.
Speaker 2: It's like so freshing to hear so many people talking
Speaker 2: about that, you know, I love that.
Speaker 3: It's like when you speak up about something and all
Speaker 3: of a sudden you start to hear other people that
Speaker 3: feel the same way about something. It's quite encouraging, you know,
Speaker 3: just to realize the non aloneness of your opinion.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, and especially because I think for women there's
Speaker 1: been this sort of prescriptive this is what your joy
Speaker 1: will look like list, And I mean, I know for me,
Speaker 1: even it's almost two years ago now, like finally being like,
Speaker 1: I don't I got I think I have to say
Speaker 1: this out loud, like I did the list and I'm
Speaker 1: so unhappy. And then the number of women I knew
Speaker 1: from every walk of life that were like, oh me too,
Speaker 1: Oh me too, me too. Did you hear so and
Speaker 1: so is going through this? You should call her? Let
Speaker 1: me put you on a text with my friend who's
Speaker 1: also and boom, Like, you have such a huge community,
Speaker 1: and sometimes I think the barrier to entry is just
Speaker 1: that you haven't said what you need or what you're
Speaker 1: afraid of or what you're experiencing out loud. In the
Speaker 1: minute you do, it's like all the barriers evaporate.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's absolutely there's always another person or another group
Speaker 3: of people that are going through whatever you're going through.
Speaker 3: And that's something that women can't hear enough because people
Speaker 3: feel so alone, you know, when they feel like, oh,
Speaker 3: they're not worthy, or they're not doing this right, or
Speaker 3: it's like and we all feel that way, even the
Speaker 3: most confident people in the world feel that way. So
Speaker 3: it's nice to mind each other that there isn't you know,
Speaker 3: there's always a community for anything, even if stuck on toes,
Speaker 3: there's a community.
Speaker 2: For that too.
Speaker 1: Listen, we don't kink shame here.
Speaker 2: No, no kink shaming.
Speaker 1: Speaking of it's the most perfect segue for the title
Speaker 1: of your book, because as soon as I saw you
Speaker 1: were going to call it, I'll have what she's having,
Speaker 1: I thought, yes, she is, And it's going to come
Speaker 1: out on your fiftieth birthday. And it really feels like
Speaker 1: a love letter to yourself and to so many women.
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel it as a member of your community.
Speaker 1: I'm sure so many readers who don't know you personally
Speaker 1: but have followed you for so long will feel that.
Speaker 1: Is it also a little bit of like a birthday
Speaker 1: present to yourself this one.
Speaker 2: Well, it's becoming that way, you know.
Speaker 3: I didn't on it publishing it on my birthday, but
Speaker 3: when we were going over dates and my birthday was
Speaker 3: one of those dates, I thought, Okay, I could have
Speaker 3: like two minds about this. I could be like, no,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to let I'm not going to work
Speaker 3: on my birthday, or I'm not gonna let my birthday
Speaker 3: be overshadowed by because it's such a big birthday, like
Speaker 3: be overshadowed by work. And then I was like, no,
Speaker 3: but this is so me. Work and my life are
Speaker 3: always kind of intertwined. I'm they're always mixed. It's not
Speaker 3: like I'm a private person or I'm you know, precious
Speaker 3: about my personal life. I've never been that way. I'm
Speaker 3: always kind of feeding it up. So it is kind
Speaker 3: of turned into a birthday present for myself because it's
Speaker 3: my seventh book. I I am really in the mode
Speaker 3: of really injecting optimism into other women and confidence. Who
Speaker 3: are always asking me about my confidence, and it's like,
Speaker 3: I don't know where my confidence comes from.
Speaker 2: All I know is that it can be infectious.
Speaker 3: And like, when I'm confident people, I feel even more confident.
Speaker 3: And when I'm around people who are not confident, I
Speaker 3: want to inject them with like this. I want the
Speaker 3: substance for confidence for girls, you know, I want.
Speaker 2: Everyone to know like you can.
Speaker 3: It's kind of a practice and to actually, really it's
Speaker 3: just so much more optimistic to be confident and not
Speaker 3: to be arrogant.
Speaker 2: That's a separate thing, but confidence is really just.
Speaker 3: Knowing who you are and not being apologetic for it,
Speaker 3: and knowing that you're a good person. I think so
Speaker 3: many times in our lives we question whether or not
Speaker 3: we're good people just because we're having negative thoughts about
Speaker 3: a situation or about another person or seditive or you know,
Speaker 3: and I feel like that kind of I know, for me,
Speaker 3: I'm always like, oh God, am I a bad person
Speaker 3: for thinking that. It's like, no, you're not a bad
Speaker 3: You're only a bad person if you act on those feelings.
Speaker 3: Of course, we're all have emotions that run across the
Speaker 3: human spectrum, jealousy, of envy, of disdain and love and
Speaker 3: all of everything that comes in between. But it's good
Speaker 3: to embrace those feelings, understand them, acknowledge them, and then
Speaker 3: like you know, move forward because and I think the
Speaker 3: thing that's lacking, so you know, the most in our
Speaker 3: world is confidence. Yeah, and I think as we've just
Speaker 3: been targeted to like almost have have that taken from us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, in this weird way, we've conflated confidence and conceit.
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, don't be a conceited asshole, But
Speaker 1: you deserve to be confident. You deserve to be proud
Speaker 1: of yourself. Do you need to walk through the world
Speaker 1: with pridefulness being used as like a as a club
Speaker 1: to hit other people with. No, but you deserve to
Speaker 1: be proud of yourself. And I think I think this
Speaker 1: idea of of how, oh we have to renounce anything
Speaker 1: that you know could possibly be seen as egotistical, it
Speaker 1: really just feels like a really insidious way to strip
Speaker 1: women of their confidence, of their willingness to celebrate themselves,
Speaker 1: to keep them you know, small or afraid. And it's like,
Speaker 1: we don't need to be wasting any more time doing
Speaker 1: any of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I agree, like that, that's out the window.
Speaker 3: Okay, we need to be building blocks and building back
Speaker 3: better is what we need.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, building bitches back better.
Speaker 2: Building bitches back better. I like that.
Speaker 1: And now for our sponsors, I love that you've been
Speaker 1: so frank and you said you're not precious about your
Speaker 1: personal life, but you know, it's a weird thing to
Speaker 1: be a person in the public eye and to have
Speaker 1: when you try to keep things private for yourself. They
Speaker 1: kind of can often get eaten up when you share things.
Speaker 1: People are like, no one was asking. It's like, no
Speaker 1: matter what you do, somebody's going to tell you do
Speaker 1: it wrong, which might just be again being women. But
Speaker 1: you seem to have found this really cool flow in
Speaker 1: your life where you're really willing to tell it like
Speaker 1: it is. You're willing to kind of pull the lid
Speaker 1: off the lessons, you know, admit the hard stuff, talk
Speaker 1: about what's great, and you really are doing it, as
Speaker 1: you said a few minutes ago, with this incredible I
Speaker 1: don't even want to call it energy. It's like the
Speaker 1: whole thing is really fueled on this positivity that you found,
Speaker 1: and I'm inspired by that point blank period. And then
Speaker 1: there's the other layer of you're also doing this entering
Speaker 1: fifty when so many women are essentially, you know, whisper
Speaker 1: warned that they're going to become irrelevant, and it's like
Speaker 1: you're hotter, funner, more relevant than ever. I Do you
Speaker 1: love the way this whole phase feels because you're booking
Speaker 1: every tradition in the book, or does it also just
Speaker 1: feel sort of silly that people ask you questions like
Speaker 1: this in the first place, because what the fuck are
Speaker 1: these traditions and where did they come from.
Speaker 3: I mean, I will say that I feel very and
Speaker 3: I talk about this in the book. I feel very
Speaker 3: happy that I had enough belief in myself that I
Speaker 3: did not listen to other people steering me in the
Speaker 3: wrong direction.
Speaker 2: Yeah, many times in my life where I got advice or.
Speaker 3: Was told not to do something. I don't do that,
Speaker 3: don't do this, don't do that. And I'm not very
Speaker 3: good at, you know, taking direction and listening to other people,
Speaker 3: especially when they're men obviously telling me.
Speaker 2: What to do. It's like, you're not in a position
Speaker 2: to tell me what to do.
Speaker 3: And it's kind of been my vibe the whole way,
Speaker 3: you know, throughout my life. When I started my career,
Speaker 3: it wasn't like, oh, it wasn't the conversations we're having
Speaker 3: now and understand, you know, the impact of white male
Speaker 3: supremacy that it has on you know, all of us,
Speaker 3: and the kind of trickle down effect and how well
Speaker 3: I was kind of blinded.
Speaker 2: I had blinders on.
Speaker 3: I was just like, I'm going after what I want.
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter if I'm a man, woman, child, whatever,
Speaker 3: I'm doing this and I was just so like intent
Speaker 3: and focused on what I was doing and having a
Speaker 3: good time and having like this party of a TV show.
Speaker 2: And I wanted to have all my friends on and
Speaker 2: that's what I did.
Speaker 3: And I didn't really notice, you know a lot of
Speaker 3: the things that we're talking about now that are so
Speaker 3: front and center right till they started happening, that until
Speaker 3: the conversation started flowing. Like I remember, my friends would
Speaker 3: be like, you know, once you hit forty, you're never
Speaker 3: going to work again. And this was like twenty years ago.
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's a terrible attitude, and they're like, well,
Speaker 3: it's not an attitude, it's a reality. I'm like, it
Speaker 3: doesn't have to be your reality. That's just that can
Speaker 3: be your reality, or you can just decide you're not
Speaker 3: going to you know, that's not going to be the
Speaker 3: way that you're going to operate. So I always kind
Speaker 3: of had that kind of attitude. But that is pretty
Speaker 3: naive because just because something doesn't happen to you or
Speaker 3: impact you directly, you have to be conscientious and conscious
Speaker 3: of the fact that it is happening to millions of
Speaker 3: women in the world all the time, every single day,
Speaker 3: in all mediums of business and entertainment and whatever you
Speaker 3: do in the world, it's male dominated.
Speaker 2: Everything is except for women's soccer, you know.
Speaker 3: So I think, like I think that I'm very I'm
Speaker 3: grateful that I didn't allow myself to be pushed around
Speaker 3: and that I didn't allow myself Like even when I
Speaker 3: bought my house in my Orca, I remember, and I
Speaker 3: put this in the book because like my business manager
Speaker 3: was a guy.
Speaker 2: My manager was a guy.
Speaker 3: There were like three other men in my life who
Speaker 3: were like, that's a terrible business decision, that's way too
Speaker 3: much money.
Speaker 2: Don't do that.
Speaker 3: The Spanish economy is terrible. And I remember hearing their
Speaker 3: advice one after another after another, and after the sixth one,
Speaker 3: I'm like, I've never been more convinced to do something
Speaker 3: than I am.
Speaker 2: To buy the class in Spain.
Speaker 3: Like your negative attitudes have convinced me that I definitely
Speaker 3: must do it. And once again it turned into a huge, huge,
Speaker 3: positive life decision. Book have given so many people great times,
Speaker 3: great vacations. I've provided so many people with like vacations
Speaker 3: of a lifetime at that house.
Speaker 2: I've written two books in that house.
Speaker 3: The Spanish economy went through the roof the year after
Speaker 3: I bought it, So I just I just always go
Speaker 3: back to that when I'm like, I'm not an indecisive person,
Speaker 3: but ever I am on the fence about something I
Speaker 3: know now, think like, sit with yourself, be quiet and understand, like,
Speaker 3: what is the answer right now?
Speaker 2: Really? What is the truth?
Speaker 3: What is because only only each of us know what
Speaker 3: is right for each of us.
Speaker 2: Nobody else who can give you that information.
Speaker 3: So the closer you get to a dialogue with yourself
Speaker 3: and an understanding and the knowing that all women are
Speaker 3: talking about, the better, like the better your life is
Speaker 3: going to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that, sit with yourself, be quiet and
Speaker 1: really listen, because we don't. That's not a lot of
Speaker 1: advice that we get. It's always, well, what will this
Speaker 1: mean for your career and how do you think it'll
Speaker 1: impact that, and what's the bottom line going to be?
Speaker 1: And you know, there's always a question about how you're
Speaker 1: supposed to couch your decision and this moment to sit
Speaker 1: and not gatekeep that the way to really figure it
Speaker 1: out is to figure out what you want what your
Speaker 1: answer is not necessarily what's popular, not what.
Speaker 2: Not.
Speaker 1: Whatever they've put on the list that's supposed to make
Speaker 1: you happy when you check all the boxes, you like,
Speaker 1: listen to yourself, and you talk about it in the
Speaker 1: book in a way that really hit home for me
Speaker 1: because I had to ask myself a series of the
Speaker 1: same questions when you talk about the relationship that you
Speaker 1: had with Joe Koy and how you did it differently
Speaker 1: in terms even of how the public was let in.
Speaker 1: And again there's that like do you let people in
Speaker 1: so they know what it is? Or do you keep
Speaker 1: them out and then they just gossip about what it is?
Speaker 1: I don't fucking know, but it was a difference for you.
Speaker 1: And I've been so touched by how beautifully and gently
Speaker 1: you've talked about how it was wonderful and successful even
Speaker 1: though it wasn't the foreverything everyone thinks it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1: And you talked about how you had to listen to
Speaker 1: yourself and know, oh, what this person wants is not
Speaker 1: compatible with what I want, and so I have to
Speaker 1: choose me because the other option is you shrink yourself,
Speaker 1: or you compartmentalize yourself, or you abandon yourself. Right, Like,
Speaker 1: that's the energy that I've gotten from the kindness with
Speaker 1: which you speak about that and the frankness that you
Speaker 1: managed to speak with at the same time.
Speaker 3: Time, Yes, I think that you know, if you're not
Speaker 3: like growing and changing, right, what are we doing and
Speaker 3: we're just becoming this we're the same. Like I don't
Speaker 3: want to go through the same relationship I was in
Speaker 3: ten years ago. I want everything to be like one
Speaker 3: and done. Like I don't need to learn a lesson twice.
Speaker 3: I would prefer to learning and be done, make the
Speaker 3: first the last time.
Speaker 2: And I don't think about relationships like that.
Speaker 3: But I am so much more mature than I was
Speaker 3: when I was in my twenties or when I was
Speaker 3: in my thirties, and I'm not I don't care like
Speaker 3: to me a romantic partner, a lover. All of those
Speaker 3: things are wonderful things to have in your life. They're wonderful.
Speaker 3: They should be additions, not subtractions to your life. And
Speaker 3: I can't imagine myself at this stage in my life
Speaker 3: ever being upset at an ending like just too. I've
Speaker 3: been through too many things to not know that it's okay,
Speaker 3: k for things to end. It doesn't mean that anything failed.
Speaker 3: It means that you're healthy enough to have your own back,
Speaker 3: and that is kind of the way that I go
Speaker 3: about things now, Like that was a you know, I
Speaker 3: didn't want to break up with Joe Cooy.
Speaker 2: I was in love with him. When I broke up
Speaker 2: with him, we were in love, but it.
Speaker 3: Was very clear to me he had a very different
Speaker 3: idea of what that meant than from what I than
Speaker 3: what I meant. And I'm everyone knows how I feel
Speaker 3: about everything, So this cause is and there shouldn't have
Speaker 3: been to him either because I am an open book.
Speaker 3: I'm not going when I make decisions. A lot of
Speaker 3: the times I think about if this is something that
Speaker 3: I would put up with for my nieces or my
Speaker 3: you know, or the women in my life, like is
Speaker 3: this something stay with as a standard to whether or
Speaker 3: not I should be dealing with it, And at that
Speaker 3: point in our relationship, it just became clear we were
Speaker 3: not on the same page. He expected a lot more
Speaker 3: from me than I was willing to give in any
Speaker 3: relationship and choose myself, and I chose myself knowing, Okay,
Speaker 3: bring this, bring it on, Bring on the fucking pain,
Speaker 3: because this is gonna be so painful. You're leaving one
Speaker 3: you love, and but also knowing I'm gonna be okay.
Speaker 3: Like it's you know, we go through so many breakups
Speaker 3: in our lives, wondering if we are or separations or
Speaker 3: breakups even with friends, wondering if we're gonna survive, if
Speaker 3: we're gonna.
Speaker 2: The answer is yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 3: And to know that before you make the decision and
Speaker 3: while you're making the decision is such a strength.
Speaker 2: That why do we keep ending up where we started?
Speaker 3: Like there's so many times where a breakup I'm like, no, no,
Speaker 3: You're holding on.
Speaker 2: So tightly, like I don't want I don't want this
Speaker 2: to end.
Speaker 3: It's like I didn't want that to end, but I
Speaker 3: knew it had to, so I had.
Speaker 2: To end it.
Speaker 3: And and but with also with a ton of gratitude
Speaker 3: about the experience in it of itself, a ton of
Speaker 3: gratitude about him opening my heart to even be in
Speaker 3: a position to be spreading and instagram and talking about
Speaker 3: how much we love each other, like.
Speaker 2: I love doing that. I thought that was fun. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I can't believe I haven't been doing this my whole life. No,
Speaker 2: and people for us, you know, people would.
Speaker 3: Run up to us on the streets of New York
Speaker 3: or in la, oh my god, if you found love,
Speaker 3: anyone can find love.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, let's go everyone, surely. And so it
Speaker 2: was very warm.
Speaker 3: Like like warm hearted the response from the public. And
Speaker 3: I had never experienced that kind of like support, and
Speaker 3: I was like.
Speaker 2: This is fun.
Speaker 3: So it brought out all these wonderful things that I
Speaker 3: didn't even know about, and I, instead of being upset
Speaker 3: or mad at him for not understanding me and not
Speaker 3: getting it, I just kept reminding myself of all of
Speaker 3: the good things that came from that relationship, you know,
Speaker 3: in a big way.
Speaker 2: He really reminded me of who I am and who.
Speaker 3: I've always been, and I had kind of lost track
Speaker 3: of that. I kind of gotten off of, you know,
Speaker 3: my m O in life, which is just to like
Speaker 3: just to be a hustler and to be a lover
Speaker 3: and to like really just have this big, loud, brave life.
Speaker 2: That's all I wanted.
Speaker 3: When I think back to me as a child, I
Speaker 3: was just like, I just can't wait to get going,
Speaker 3: like to get it going. And now here I am
Speaker 3: and I'm fifty and it's going, and I've I got
Speaker 3: it going, and I have five years or thirty years
Speaker 3: now in this industry.
Speaker 2: I would say twenty five very successful years in this.
Speaker 3: Industry where the scientific like the data shows me, Okay,
Speaker 3: you're capable, you're smart, you know how to get the
Speaker 3: life you want. Now you have it, and now what
Speaker 3: are you going to do with the next twenty thirty years? Yes,
Speaker 3: I don't want to say fifty years, because of course
Speaker 3: I don't want to live to one hundred. But I
Speaker 3: just read the saying that if you can get if
Speaker 3: you live through the next ten to fifteen years, you
Speaker 3: there will be enough like scientific innovation to get you
Speaker 3: to live to like one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, who the fuck wants to live to
Speaker 2: a I don't want that. No, I can't afford that.
Speaker 2: Nobody can.
Speaker 1: Nobody can. I just want to live to like a
Speaker 1: nice old age that feels happy for me, but be healthy.
Speaker 1: Like I don't need to live to one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 1: But if you told me I could get to eighty
Speaker 1: six healthy and never have to deal with cancer, I'd
Speaker 1: be like, whatever that is, signed me up for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. No cancer would be a nice bonus.
Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors that I really
Speaker 1: enjoy and I think you will too. I love the
Speaker 1: whole perspective that you just shared because I remember years
Speaker 1: ago I got to write this article talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: the pressure women are under defined love, and to me,
Speaker 1: it's always bothered me that people treat a break up
Speaker 1: like it's some kind of a failure. Like you said,
Speaker 1: like an ending is a bad thing because even if
Speaker 1: you are one of the people who wants the you know,
Speaker 1: you want the paper list, you want the who's my person,
Speaker 1: who's my happily ever after? Okay, well, every relationship theoretically
Speaker 1: before that person has ended. So you're going to tell
Speaker 1: me most of your life if it's been endings until
Speaker 1: you know this, this positive thing you've asked for is
Speaker 1: a failure. Like no lessons. It's like books that you've
Speaker 1: read and lessons that you've learned. You know, I think
Speaker 1: every like you were saying earlier, every time you share
Speaker 1: a piece of your life with a person, a romantic relationship,
Speaker 1: a friend, if you evolve out of that, that just
Speaker 1: means you're growing. And there's no way you're going to
Speaker 1: grow on the same path with everybody. But what a
Speaker 1: gift to be in any kind of relationship for any
Speaker 1: length of time. That has encouraged your growth.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and also growing is is saying goodbye sometimes is
Speaker 3: letting you go, like if not everybody is meant to
Speaker 3: be in your life ever, like we have to bringing
Speaker 3: on to each other. Like some people are just supporting characters.
Speaker 3: Some people some people you're a part of their story.
Speaker 3: You know, it's not for you, it's about them maybe, yeah,
Speaker 3: and not to be so like just to accept the
Speaker 3: reality of the situation. Accept something if it's not if
Speaker 3: it's not working, it's okay, then it's time to move on.
Speaker 3: There's what three hundred million people in this country alone.
Speaker 3: I mean, we're there are other people out there to
Speaker 3: serve your needs and your purposes. And I'm not just
Speaker 3: talking about romantic I'm talking about and family, And it's
Speaker 3: okay to take breaks, and it's okay to like to
Speaker 3: look at people as like a temporary thing, like not
Speaker 3: every there's not we I don't know why we attach
Speaker 3: such permanence to things, because nothing is permanent, So I
Speaker 3: don't know that idea in the first place.
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes the pressure of the permanence that
Speaker 1: we ascribe to something can actually trap us there. Like
Speaker 1: I know that that is true for me in the
Speaker 1: last couple of years of my life. I you know,
Speaker 1: I've said this. I did everything I was supposed to do,
Speaker 1: and I did everything right, and I checked every box
Speaker 1: on the list, and then the train had kind of
Speaker 1: left the station. And looking back, because the kindsight's twenty twenty, right,
Speaker 1: Like in the moment, you're just dealing with your life
Speaker 1: and trying to hear that inner voice. But when I
Speaker 1: look back, I can see these moments where, if I'm
Speaker 1: really honest, and it breaks my heart a little bit,
Speaker 1: I abandoned myself.
Speaker 2: I knew what.
Speaker 1: I needed, I knew I deserved better. I knew the
Speaker 1: answer had to be different. But plans were made and
Speaker 1: promises were made, and I thought they had to be kept.
Speaker 1: And I thought, if I can just work harder, if
Speaker 1: I can just maybe maybe shrink myself a little bit,
Speaker 1: if I could be more amenable too, And all I
Speaker 1: was doing was continuing to cut myself down. And by
Speaker 1: the time I realized I couldn't move without feeling like
Speaker 1: I was cracking eggshe they weren't just on the floor,
Speaker 1: they were all around me in my life. I was like,
Speaker 1: how the fuck did this happen? Like how did I
Speaker 1: get here, and and sometimes I think the pressure that
Speaker 1: it all puts on us, it gets so loud that
Speaker 1: we can't hear that voice. We can't hear yeah, you
Speaker 1: know you you can't hear your inner self say you
Speaker 1: love this person, but you got to go. And I
Speaker 1: think it is so fucking crucial that we talk about it,
Speaker 1: and that we start giving not only ourselves permission, but
Speaker 1: like you said earlier, by talking about it, other people
Speaker 1: feel permission to talk about it too.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and honesty, you know what I mean, to be
Speaker 3: really honest with each other as women is also integral
Speaker 3: to like to to like being a dutiful women to
Speaker 3: other women, Like you know, some of us play things
Speaker 3: off like oh it's okay, or they don't you don't
Speaker 3: want to share, you know, or you don't want to overshare,
Speaker 3: you don't want to burden other people, And so then
Speaker 3: you're kind of you're kind of begetting this like lie
Speaker 3: because being truthful about your own situation, So how is
Speaker 3: that supposed to shed any light on another woman's situation
Speaker 3: or another friends? Not even really telling the truth because
Speaker 3: you're too ashamed to actually sit down with your thoughts
Speaker 3: and go, am I happy? Is like how do I
Speaker 3: feel who like you have to get to a place
Speaker 3: where disappointing other people is not your problem, And for
Speaker 3: some women have the biggest issue with that. We are
Speaker 3: so allergic to the idea of anyone being inconvenienced on
Speaker 3: our behalf. It would have been calling off your wedding,
Speaker 3: even though I'm sure before your wedding you had those feelings.
Speaker 2: Some of those feelings you going through with it.
Speaker 3: Was because you didn't want to inconvenience all the people
Speaker 3: that were going to be there, right, And that's what
Speaker 3: we do as women. We are trained to make sure
Speaker 3: that our feelings come last. And I need a retraining
Speaker 3: program because our feelings should be should come.
Speaker 1: First, absolutely, Because it's the same as the adage. You know,
Speaker 1: when the oxygen masks come down, you have to put
Speaker 1: yours on first if you're going to help the person
Speaker 1: next to you get theirs on.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and by putting myself you know, I talk about
Speaker 3: therapy in the book, and I talked about it a
Speaker 3: lot in my last book, and we've spoken about it
Speaker 3: at length, Like therapy teaches you, it's so I the
Speaker 3: irony of therapy is so funny because I went to
Speaker 3: therapy with.
Speaker 2: The intention of like getting out of my own ass.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I need to get out of my ass,
Speaker 3: Like I'm so far up my own ass, I need
Speaker 3: a break. And the very act of going to therapy
Speaker 3: is actually talking about yourself ad infinitum for months, years
Speaker 3: on end. So the act of getting out of your
Speaker 3: own ass requires you to really crawl up inside your
Speaker 3: own ass. Yes catch twenty two, because you're like, well,
Speaker 3: wait a second, I was trying to get away for myself,
Speaker 3: but here I am again. But once you do put
Speaker 3: in that work, and once you do actually go to therapy,
Speaker 3: which is hard and brave and tough feeling a lot
Speaker 3: of the time because nobody wants to go in and unearth.
Speaker 2: All of this stuff. But when you do, what you come.
Speaker 3: Out with is just a much less apologetic person, like like, no,
Speaker 3: these all of this is not my problem. I'm my
Speaker 3: biggest problem. And if I can get myself on straight,
Speaker 3: then I'll be able to do so many great things
Speaker 3: for so many people in my life. But if I'm
Speaker 3: a sured and if I'm not being truthful, then then
Speaker 3: I'm like a limp biscuit.
Speaker 2: How can I help any Yes?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I think one of the things that I've
Speaker 1: learned in that space that's so important, Like you can't
Speaker 1: heal it, you can't get past yourself if you don't
Speaker 1: really go in and you know, pull all the threads
Speaker 1: and see what you're made of. And for me, the
Speaker 1: aha moment when I was like how the fuck did
Speaker 1: I get here? I was like, I had one rule
Speaker 1: for myself. It was I am never going to have
Speaker 1: a lifelike X fill in the blank. I'm also learning
Speaker 1: like you said in your book, I'm like, there's things
Speaker 1: I'll keep to myself because I don't need to hurt
Speaker 1: other people. But I had a very clear directive for
Speaker 1: myself for twenty plus years. I will just never have
Speaker 1: a life like X. And then I woke up and
Speaker 1: was like how did I get here? And I went, oh,
Speaker 1: I said, I'm never going to be wounded like fill
Speaker 1: in the blank. And what I didn't do was actually
Speaker 1: go and clean out and suture those wounds. So all
Speaker 1: I've been fucking doing is finding the clause that fit
Speaker 1: my wounds. I said, I'm not going to do that,
Speaker 1: and I wasn't even paying attention to how easily they
Speaker 1: just slid into those already open spaces, and I was like, damn,
Speaker 1: I made a rule, but I didn't do the deeper
Speaker 1: layer of self work and introspection. I didn't go to
Speaker 1: the center of the thing that hurt me, So I
Speaker 1: got hurt in the same fucking way. Whoa. And that
Speaker 1: for me was just so revelatory. And it was almost
Speaker 1: like in that moment when it when the whole illusion
Speaker 1: of it came crashing down and like you know, the hologram,
Speaker 1: if you will was gone, and I was just like
Speaker 1: standing in the dirt, and then I realized how many
Speaker 1: people around me were also in the dirt, Like holy shit,
Speaker 1: not only did I have people to talk to, but
Speaker 1: it was like finally the moment where the universe was like,
Speaker 1: are you done trying to do that? Would you like
Speaker 1: to see what might actually be good for you? And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh fuck, the only way, the only
Speaker 1: way to the other side of it is to go
Speaker 1: back to the beginning and walk through it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah right.
Speaker 3: And also like that's what you're talking about, you know,
Speaker 3: it's like a circular you're having a circular conversation, you're
Speaker 3: repeating patterns, you're doing things over there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how you got here? When you know so much
Speaker 2: more and you know better. So yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think I heard Maria Shriver say it first the first, make,
Speaker 3: the first.
Speaker 2: Time, the last time.
Speaker 3: I love that, like disciplining children, like when they make
Speaker 3: a mistake or do something really you know, unacceptable. She's like,
Speaker 3: you make sure that they know that that's not allowed
Speaker 3: to happen again. You make the first time the last time.
Speaker 3: But I think it's a pla to everything in life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want.
Speaker 3: I want to make sure. I don't want to go
Speaker 3: to summer school. I want to go to my ORCA
Speaker 3: so I don't get my lessons in. I got it, Okay,
Speaker 3: I got that loud and clear. I don't need that
Speaker 3: or yes, be open minded. People can reappear blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: But I don't want to learn lessons twice.
Speaker 1: No, absolutely not. And you know what, it even goes down.
Speaker 1: I started doing this thing that a friend's mom told me,
Speaker 1: like I don't know, maybe two years ago. I was
Speaker 1: talking about how I have this tendency to make piles
Speaker 1: and I've like learned, you know that women with ADHD
Speaker 1: do this, And my friend's mom goes, oh, I can
Speaker 1: undo that for you, and I was like I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm forty, what are you going to undo for me?
Speaker 1: And she goes every time you pick something up, you
Speaker 1: just have to say, I don't want to waste my time.
Speaker 1: I don't want to touch this twice and I was like,
Speaker 1: say it again. And now it's like if I pick
Speaker 1: up the thing, like, well, what I'm not going to
Speaker 1: do is put it down somewhere and then have to
Speaker 1: fucking pick it up again. That's a waste of my
Speaker 1: very valuable time. And it is like, change the way
Speaker 1: I live in my own house. So make the first
Speaker 1: time the last time and don't touch it twice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: you know, from your emotions to your things. It's like
Speaker 1: it's so it's so good, and I think it changes
Speaker 1: the way you move. And you talk about something else
Speaker 1: in the book that I love, which my brain relates
Speaker 1: to changing the way you move, because you said that
Speaker 1: eventually you ran out of the fuel of anger and
Speaker 1: the drive it gave you, like the kind of I
Speaker 1: don't know if you want to call it, you know,
Speaker 1: the shocking aspect of comedy or the teasing bit of it,
Speaker 1: or the or the judgmental commentary, however you want to
Speaker 1: define it. But that really struck me that you were like, oh,
Speaker 1: I can't, I can't run my motor on that type
Speaker 1: of fuel. Forever so healthy. But I also understand that
Speaker 1: some artists get really scared when they feel like they've
Speaker 1: run out of something, Like I know actors who've gotten
Speaker 1: terrified when they get sober because they're like, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna be a good actor anymore. It's like, newsflash, will
Speaker 1: be a better actor.
Speaker 2: Bad news flash.
Speaker 3: It's like fat people, bat comics who lose weight. They're like,
Speaker 3: we're not going to be funny anymore.
Speaker 1: You're like, you're like, no, your brain is the funny thing. Nice, yes,
Speaker 1: But I wonder for you, was there a moment in
Speaker 1: realizing you'd kind of run out of this initial supply
Speaker 1: that you you talk in the book about how you
Speaker 1: ran your first show on it and all these things.
Speaker 1: Were you ever afraid that you weren't going to be
Speaker 1: able to do what you do off of a more
Speaker 1: joyful fuel tank or no?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I never wanted to be this person that I am, Like,
Speaker 3: I would never at that thought in my twenties or forties.
Speaker 3: I'm going to go to therapy, I'm going to meditate,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have a gratitude journal. Like all of that
Speaker 3: was like fuck off, Like I don't want to be
Speaker 3: about you.
Speaker 2: Know, I don't want to hear about chakras. I don't
Speaker 2: want to hear about it. See magnetism field work.
Speaker 1: Like no, you're like law of attraction.
Speaker 2: Right, exactly, law of attraction.
Speaker 3: Like that's all sounded so ooh wah wah la dumb, dumb.
Speaker 3: I'm from New Jersey, I'm fast, I'm you know, like
Speaker 3: I'm not like that. And eventually, you know, you realize,
Speaker 3: I by educating yourself that these things that I just mentioned,
Speaker 3: all of them are a great, great things to have
Speaker 3: in your toolbox as an adult person. And while I'm
Speaker 3: no longer fueled by anger, you know, it's a very
Speaker 3: confusing time where you go to therapy and you kind
Speaker 3: of learn all this stuff about yourself and then you
Speaker 3: have to then you have to absorb everything you learn,
Speaker 3: and then you have to apply everything you learn.
Speaker 2: So it's like a process.
Speaker 3: And I didn't want to stay in therapy for like,
Speaker 3: you know, I went for two years and then I
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, there's got to be an end date
Speaker 3: to this. I don't want to be somebody who's codependent
Speaker 3: with my therapist. I don't want to be every week.
Speaker 3: I'll come when there's you know, I have I have
Speaker 3: a therapy appointment today this afternoon. But I do therapy
Speaker 3: like incrementally now, like when I have an issue to
Speaker 3: my therapist for a couple times and then I won't
Speaker 3: see her for a couple of months or a year.
Speaker 3: You know, I have the baseline to understand how to
Speaker 3: handle my own problems. But at the time when I
Speaker 3: first delved into therapy in that big giant way, it
Speaker 3: was like, you're kind of auditioning different versions of yourself.
Speaker 3: You're like, well, if I'm not anymore, I have to
Speaker 3: take the good qualities of the old me and implement
Speaker 3: the new qualities of me that I know are going
Speaker 3: to be less harmful and hurtful to others. I want
Speaker 3: to protect other people. I want to protect myself. And
Speaker 3: you're just kind of like boggling together this kind of
Speaker 3: new persona or personality of your own. And I remember
Speaker 3: finding myself like myself auditioning different versions of this personality,
Speaker 3: like Okay, I'm going to go to this dinner party
Speaker 3: and I'm not going to talk.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be the center of attention. I'm
Speaker 2: just going to be a.
Speaker 3: Guest and I'm not, Oh, my opinion is not that important,
Speaker 3: Like just sit back, relax and enjoy the show.
Speaker 2: And that felt weird.
Speaker 3: I'm like, this isn't me either, Like just there were
Speaker 3: so many times where I'm like, who am I?
Speaker 2: Like, I want the best versions of me combined with
Speaker 2: all of the things that I've picked up.
Speaker 3: And then eventually it does click and you realize anger
Speaker 3: is not my fuel, you know, my fuel is It
Speaker 3: doesn't have to be that. Yes, I can get angry
Speaker 3: with the best of them, but I don't wake up
Speaker 3: angry even with this like shoulder injury that I have,
Speaker 3: Like it's such a pain in my ass and it's
Speaker 3: such an inconvenience. But I'm also like, every night I
Speaker 3: go to bed, I'm like, thank you for my shoulder infection.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm sure this is teaching me something I
Speaker 2: don't knowing.
Speaker 3: I don't know if God is in the sky or
Speaker 3: I'm thinking my mother that's dead.
Speaker 2: I don't know who I'm thinking.
Speaker 3: But I'm just saying I'm grateful for everything, the good
Speaker 3: and the bad.
Speaker 2: And that's my positioning now about everything.
Speaker 3: If something doesn't work out, thank you anyway for the experience.
Speaker 3: And it's not empty gratitude. It's like, I understand now
Speaker 3: that not everything happens the way that you want it to.
Speaker 3: Not to attach yourself to the outcome of things, but
Speaker 3: go through it with grace and be graceful, you know,
Speaker 3: be graceful about the achievements, about the disappointments, and be
Speaker 3: happy and encouraging and understand, like if I don't feel
Speaker 3: confident or strong one day, if I'm having these weird,
Speaker 3: icky feelings, to know that that's temporary too, and in
Speaker 3: those moments that I will find the confident, strong version
Speaker 3: of myself probably tomorrow when I wake up and that
Speaker 3: it's there and it's in me and it's not going anywhere.
Speaker 2: So by not being.
Speaker 3: Run on anger, I am a lot more. I have
Speaker 3: just more expansiveness, like I can. I'm more patient, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm understanding and you know, if I need to get angry, yeah,
Speaker 3: no problem, but yeah, I mean source of fuel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from our wonderful sponsors. Did
Speaker 1: you know, because I always think it's really easy to
Speaker 1: see it all in hindsight, did you know at the
Speaker 1: time were you able to talk about it with that
Speaker 1: kind of language, like, Oh, I'm trying on new versions
Speaker 1: of myself, like I'm leaning into my listener, I'm going
Speaker 1: to lean into my graceful, gentle soul human. Were you
Speaker 1: talking about that in that really active therapy process or
Speaker 1: did it kind of come to you later as you
Speaker 1: felt like you like readjusted in my brain. It's almost
Speaker 1: like you readjusted the spine of yourself, you know, you
Speaker 1: clicked everything back into place, Like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it was definitely after Like it was it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, how you go to school during the school
Speaker 3: year and then you have the summer, and the summer
Speaker 3: is meant for children to absorb what they've learned during
Speaker 3: the school year. Right, how therapy was for me, Like
Speaker 3: I got all this information, I understood it, It made sense,
Speaker 3: it was logical and linear here then I was like, okay, now,
Speaker 3: now what do I just change my personality?
Speaker 2: Or am I still allowed to be parts of me?
Speaker 3: And you know, and the answer is, you don't change
Speaker 3: your personality. You just change the way that you are
Speaker 3: in the world. You know your person there and it's
Speaker 3: your behavior that matters. So a lot of like confused
Speaker 3: and it was definitely after therapy, it was like socializing,
Speaker 3: Like I had this new way of like engaging and
Speaker 3: socializing which was like just not like in your face
Speaker 3: and not assertive and not inserting my own opinion into
Speaker 3: things that didn't involve me. And I was like, well,
Speaker 3: this isn't that funny either. But I've definitely found a balance.
Speaker 3: It's like you can be all those things but actually
Speaker 3: have a really fun disposition. You know, when I walk
Speaker 3: into a room, I want to like have a good time.
Speaker 3: If I'm going out, I want to have fun, and
Speaker 3: I want other people around me to have fun.
Speaker 2: So it's more with like that intentionality.
Speaker 1: Now I love that. And how do you feel like
Speaker 1: you know when to check back in with therapy, because
Speaker 1: I I know, I'm curious about that, And I bet
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of people at home who might be
Speaker 1: scared to ask someone in their life that question, but
Speaker 1: who would love to hear you talk about how you know?
Speaker 1: Is there a feeling? Is it an increase in anxiety?
Speaker 1: Like what is it that makes you go like, all right,
Speaker 1: it's been a couple of months, and I should I
Speaker 1: should check back in, I should go back to the
Speaker 1: mental gym.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally great question.
Speaker 3: I think it's definitely anxiety, like if I'm rutable with
Speaker 3: people or everyone, like my schedule is too crazy and
Speaker 3: I'm not handling it with a plumb and like h
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, something's going on with you.
Speaker 2: If people are really.
Speaker 3: Annoying me, then I know I need to talk to
Speaker 3: my therapist because I don't want you know, I've learned
Speaker 3: to have patience for people who I don't respect.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, to have patience for people
Speaker 2: who I don't find like I'm actually I can deal
Speaker 2: with that.
Speaker 3: Now I can deal with someone I think is stupid
Speaker 3: and sit across from them and be respectful and able.
Speaker 2: To do that. Then I'm I check in.
Speaker 3: Then I feel like, okay, I'm praying a little bit.
Speaker 3: I need to refresh, I need to center myself. And
Speaker 3: I think the feeling that I feel the most is
Speaker 3: the way that is best describes it as when I
Speaker 3: feel grounded, like when I feel in my own body
Speaker 3: knowing that I am the tree.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not a leaf. I'm the tree. You
Speaker 2: can'tnot because I'm so solid.
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter what you say or what you do
Speaker 3: or what you take away from.
Speaker 2: Me, I am a tree. And when I don't feel
Speaker 2: that way is when I check in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like you can tell that something's just starting
Speaker 1: to get a little off balance and you want to
Speaker 1: you want to get it right side up again.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, for instance, this shoulder thing.
Speaker 3: You know, I was like, I spend my Whistler, my
Speaker 3: winters in Whistler usually, and I was I had I
Speaker 3: was coming back to LA and this kind of thing happened,
Speaker 3: and it was I've not planned. I had to have
Speaker 3: shoulder surgery for this infection, and so because of it,
Speaker 3: I'm getting like the intravenous antibiotics every twenty four hours.
Speaker 3: So I haven't had a drink and I don't know
Speaker 3: three weeks and I won't have one again for another
Speaker 3: two weeks. And I'm like, oh, that's a nice break
Speaker 3: from drinking. I wouldn't have taken five weeks off of drinking,
Speaker 3: you know, like, oh, well that was probably somebody else
Speaker 3: to take a little break from drinking.
Speaker 2: You know, Like all of the little.
Speaker 3: Side things, it's like, oh, we never, not, we never.
Speaker 3: But as people, it's hard to look at the situation
Speaker 3: as a whole and find the like little nice silver
Speaker 3: linings to things because we're and I could be sitting
Speaker 3: here just bitching about my arm all day and complaining.
Speaker 3: And believe me, there have been days where I wanted
Speaker 3: to do just that. But now I know in my
Speaker 3: life and when I do that, when I'm in that mood,
Speaker 3: don't leave from your house.
Speaker 2: I just say in my bed and I'm like.
Speaker 3: Let me just put on some TV or read my
Speaker 3: book and just don't interact with others.
Speaker 2: As before, I'd be like, oh.
Speaker 3: It's okay, I can hide it. And I could be
Speaker 3: in a good mood and it's like, no, you can't.
Speaker 2: You can't hide it in the shitty mood. Everyone knows.
Speaker 1: Everyone knows.
Speaker 3: So yeah, but I'm definitely much better at looking at
Speaker 3: the whole picture rather than age of the book, you know,
Speaker 3: and being like like this, It's like, well there's another
Speaker 3: page after that. You know.
Speaker 1: You talk about that in the book that you really
Speaker 1: had to come to terms with the power of your vibe. Like,
Speaker 1: if you're in a bad mood, people will feel it.
Speaker 1: If you are feeling confident, you said it earlier, you
Speaker 1: can inject confidence into others. Another thing women are not
Speaker 1: encouraged to embrace is their power. How do you feel
Speaker 1: like you got really into the power of your vibe.
Speaker 2: I mean, I really like myself.
Speaker 3: And I used to think that was such an embarrassing
Speaker 3: thing to say, but I just am going to keep
Speaker 3: saying it because I want everyone to like themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I respect myself.
Speaker 3: You know, I have a standard of operation and the
Speaker 3: way that I operate in the world. And I have
Speaker 3: high standards for my close friends and my and lovers
Speaker 3: and relatives too.
Speaker 2: And you know, and I'm not the most like you know,
Speaker 2: if I have.
Speaker 3: A problem, I say I have a problem. It's not
Speaker 3: like I can eat the other way a lot. I'm
Speaker 3: very kind of forward conflict forward facing, like if there's
Speaker 3: a conflict, let's like hash it out.
Speaker 2: But I do have a deep respect for myself and I.
Speaker 3: And I I know I've taken the time to learn
Speaker 3: so much about everyone that it was just the right
Speaker 3: thing to do to also take that time to learn
Speaker 3: about yourself. Like, you can't really have judgments about other
Speaker 3: people when you don't know where you're coming from. And
Speaker 3: once you realize where you are coming from, the judgments
Speaker 3: kind of diminish and full because you realize you're your
Speaker 3: own experience and to have respect for the way the
Speaker 3: respect the way for the way you've handled difficult situations,
Speaker 3: to have respect for your work ethic, to have respect
Speaker 3: like whatever it is about you.
Speaker 2: You know, you don't have to be me to respect yourself.
Speaker 3: You have to be somebody who's willing to look within
Speaker 3: and look around and look at yourself and go, what
Speaker 3: are the things I admire about myself?
Speaker 2: I love the fact that I'm on time.
Speaker 3: I love the fact that I that I if I
Speaker 3: say something, I'm going to do something. I love the
Speaker 3: fact that I'll have an honest, difficult conversation with someone
Speaker 3: that's a friend or not a friend. Like the fact
Speaker 3: that if there's a room of twenty people and somebody
Speaker 3: has to land a plane, I would be like, probably
Speaker 3: should be me. I mean that's had a plane. But
Speaker 3: you know, like I like that I'm so capable. And
Speaker 3: these things are okay to say about ourselves. It's okay
Speaker 3: to talk about what we love about ourselves. It's kind
Speaker 3: of beautiful. And it's so easy for you to say
Speaker 3: to Ashland, right, it's so easy for you, these are
Speaker 3: the things I love about.
Speaker 2: You, and for her to say it back to you.
Speaker 3: But I don't think we spend enough time telling each other,
Speaker 3: like telling ourselves good job, Wow, you handled that great today,
Speaker 3: you had great you know, patting yourself on the back,
Speaker 3: and that should be kind of occurrents for all of us.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love it is this sort of immensity of
Speaker 1: joy and the and the greatness of the vibe. Is
Speaker 1: it what inspired another book?
Speaker 3: Well, the book would happen when I was in love
Speaker 3: with Joe and we were dating and it was very public,
Speaker 3: and an editor reached out to me and said, we, Chelsea,
Speaker 3: you have to write about your love story, like the
Speaker 3: women need to hear this that you found the age
Speaker 3: I was forty four or something or forty five, I
Speaker 3: don't know, and you know, we want to hear about it,
Speaker 3: like it's giving everything hope and blah blah blah. And
Speaker 3: I was like, sure, I'll write about it. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: would love to write a book about love like who
Speaker 3: you know, how funny is that?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: We broke up and then I was like, well, let's
Speaker 3: just forget about the book, and she's like no, no, no,
Speaker 3: just sit on it and see if anything else, you know,
Speaker 3: is spurred from this. And then I was able to
Speaker 3: watch myself through this breakup and see how dignified I
Speaker 3: was being and how graceful in an area where I
Speaker 3: had never.
Speaker 2: Been graceful before.
Speaker 3: Within breakups, you know, just ash talking and yelling and
Speaker 3: screaming and blaming and you fuck you and you know
Speaker 3: they're going to regret the day, all of that nonsense.
Speaker 3: And so it was so nice to actually extricate myself
Speaker 3: from a relationship, never really tell anyone what happened, never
Speaker 3: back to him.
Speaker 2: I never once went to.
Speaker 3: His social media and looked to see what he was doing,
Speaker 3: even when people are like, oh, he's doing Like I
Speaker 3: just got rid of all of that behavior, and that
Speaker 3: made me so proud.
Speaker 2: I was like, maybe I should write a book about
Speaker 2: breaking up. And then when I started thinking about it,
Speaker 2: I was like, you know what, this is a perfect.
Speaker 3: Example of I had this guy in my life. I
Speaker 3: thought I was going to be with this guy and
Speaker 3: I was done with men forever, and that was my guy,
Speaker 3: and now it turns out that's not the guy.
Speaker 2: It didn't work out. So instead of being my love.
Speaker 3: Story more than the story, he's part of the story.
Speaker 2: He's not the story.
Speaker 3: I'm like, you're the story, and he's part of the story,
Speaker 3: and I thought, that's a great way to look at
Speaker 3: all of the people that come in our lives without
Speaker 3: resentment and without bitterness and with love.
Speaker 1: You know, it strikes me that it is a love story,
Speaker 1: but it's it really is a love story about this
Speaker 1: ever evolving version of you. You know, the fact that
Speaker 1: you got to watch yourself in new behaviors that you
Speaker 1: could be proud of, that you could say, I'm doing
Speaker 1: a good job. That that's the kind of love story
Speaker 1: nobody is telling us to have first, and I think
Speaker 1: it's I think it should be just like you were
Speaker 1: saying earlier, like women should be taught to prioritize themselves.
Speaker 1: I think we should learn how to treat each other
Speaker 1: like we're our first. We are our first love story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: I see you out there supporting all the women's sports,
Speaker 1: and I'm just saying, you never know what we might
Speaker 1: around the what might be right around the corner for you.
Speaker 1: Recommend an eleven out.
Speaker 3: Of ten, another straight woman bites the dust and becomes
Speaker 3: a lesbian.
Speaker 1: Listen, Listen, I can't wait for you guys to finally
Speaker 1: get to properly hang out.
Speaker 3: It's going to be so well, let's go already. I mean,
Speaker 3: how many times do you text me? And then I
Speaker 3: never I'm like, yeah, let's go, and then I never
Speaker 3: hear back from you. I don't know what your problem is, right, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm here, let's get together.
Speaker 1: And then I know and you know what I am
Speaker 1: terrible at is the oh, okay, so she's here, and
Speaker 1: then I'll be back in ten days, and so then
Speaker 1: i'll and then in ten days I'm I'm like a
Speaker 1: fucking dog with a chewy in front of my face.
Speaker 1: I've forgotten that we're going to be back in the
Speaker 1: same city. I actually just started last week working on
Speaker 1: a thing where when I do that, I immediately put
Speaker 1: a reminder in my calendar. Good good, my, and my
Speaker 1: poor assistant is like, what are what are all of
Speaker 1: these things popping up? And I'm like, oh no, it's
Speaker 1: a reminder for me. But also I've added you to
Speaker 1: the calendar reminder to make sure I've done it, because
Speaker 1: I have the attention span of a.
Speaker 2: Nat of a mosquito.
Speaker 1: I'm learning it's growth, that's right, So we're gonna do it.
Speaker 1: So you're in a joyful moment. The book is coming out,
Speaker 1: big birthday like, things are pretty yummy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got a special coming out on March called
Speaker 3: The Feeling.
Speaker 2: You know what that's about.
Speaker 1: Oh, I know what that's about. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, I've got a I've got a big year ahead
Speaker 2: of me.
Speaker 3: I planned it this way because I wanted to like
Speaker 3: hit it hard when I'm fifty.
Speaker 2: It's kind of a reset.
Speaker 3: I'm going to do a bunch of stuff I haven't
Speaker 3: done in a long time, work wise and personal, like what,
Speaker 3: Like I want to do some acting, I told my agents.
Speaker 3: So I've gotten some I've been given some opportunities that
Speaker 3: I'm like.
Speaker 2: I think I'm going to do this.
Speaker 3: I think, Okay, not that I'm not that comfortable with,
Speaker 3: Like I've been doing my podcast, my books, my stand
Speaker 3: up for so many years because I love not having
Speaker 3: a boss and having to report to anyone.
Speaker 1: You know, I kind of about it.
Speaker 3: Yes, of course, you know, I'm not really good with
Speaker 3: a lot of direction. But I figure I would just
Speaker 3: seflect some you know, new muscles this year, and I
Speaker 3: want to like I've gotten myself this far, like I said,
Speaker 3: and I want to see what else I can do
Speaker 3: while I'm vibrant, you know, while I feel this alive.
Speaker 2: While I'm feeling positive and happy.
Speaker 3: And you know, the darker things get around us and
Speaker 3: the more odiousness that's out there in the world, the
Speaker 3: more compelled I feel too. Just keep drumming up positivity
Speaker 3: however we can find it.
Speaker 1: That feels really amazing. So does that? Would you say
Speaker 1: that now that that feels like you're working progress to
Speaker 1: constantly mine the positive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure, I feel that really, like so
Speaker 3: many it's so much stuff.
Speaker 2: We're not even halfway through the year.
Speaker 3: And so many devastating things have happened, And I think
Speaker 3: showing up for the people that you can show up
Speaker 3: for is just the most valuable thing you can do.
Speaker 3: Double down on your love, double down on your commitment
Speaker 3: to people, and double down on your reliability, you know,
Speaker 3: just to be consistent with people and to be really compassionate.
Speaker 2: And it doesn't sound like a strong fighting.
Speaker 3: Tool, but it's a very tool to get ready for
Speaker 3: whatever we need to get ready for.
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, the double down feels like a
Speaker 1: good north star.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited for this big year for you.
Speaker 2: Thank you, honey.