WEBVTT - Alienation and AI feat. Andrew 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:02.880 All the media. 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:08.920 Hello, Hello, helloo, and welcome to it could happen here. 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:13.640 I'm andrews Age otherwise known as Andrewism on YouTube, and 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:15.600 I'm here with James. 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:18.040 Just James don't have a YouTube. 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.360 More than just James, I mean, I love talking to you, 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:23.040 so in more than just James to me. 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.000 Oh, thank you, Andrew. It's very sweet. I enjoyed these 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:27.120 Two's the phone for me. 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:29.680 Yeah, so I really I'd like to get into one 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:32.840 of the hotter topics as of late. Not the heat, 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:38.600 so that is a hot topic. But yeah, YEAHI artificial intelligence. 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:41.160 Oh good, Yeah, my favorite thing. 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:45.000 Yeah, and more specifically the ways in which AI has 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:49.239 contributed to and accentuated alienation and the capitalism and the 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:52.440 state in the twenty first century. So that's a mouthful, 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.320 but it's obviously very important. Okay, Yeah, I like you 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:59.520 so lot in my opinion. Alienation, with all its meanings, 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.920 really it's one of those words that you could really 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:06.520 use to describe the current side guys, the experience of 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:10.680 separation from yourself, from your work, from the products your work, 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:15.360 from your community. All these things, both philosophical and material, 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:19.280 get wrapped up into this concept of alienation. Because it's 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:22.520 both an experience, it's something that people like feel internally, 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:25.640 it describes the way that they see their lives, and 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:31.080 it's also just a fact of how people work into society. 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.960 You're dispossessed of the products of a labor and you're 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:37.640 disconnected from the process of a labor and the outcomes 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.840 of a labor. And this is of course all thanks 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:46.240 to development of capitalism and industrialization and this development of 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:50.600 a mass society quote unquote with all the apathy and 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:55.800 loss of agency and weaken social fabric that generates. 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.160 Yeah, it's I think alienation is like something we don't 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.760 talk about enough. It's like the thing that ties together 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:07.840 that despare the loneliness. They like loneliness is is maybe 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:12.639 like it's a way that capitalism has come to talk 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:16.720 about alienation without acknowledging the capitalism is creating alienation. Every 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:21.560 sort of developed state in the colonial core have acknowledged 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:23.840 that loneliness as a problem. Right. I saw Gavin Newsome 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:29.240 was with launching a loneliness campaign. But like the system 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.680 is a problem. The alienation is created by the way 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:36.079 that things are, and like we can't fixate without changing 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:37.000 the way that things are. 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:42.200 Exactly exactly it comes down to. I mean, in particular, 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:46.880 I think we see alienation manifests in most in our relationships, 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:50.079 of course, and in our works. And it's been an 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:55.720 issue for some decades now. And what I'm really intrigued 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.000 by is, you know, this has been an issue for 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:02.560 a while, but how was HEI interacting with these issues? 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.640 Hall is THEI impacts in the ilination that we already 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:07.840 experience under the system. 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:13.840 Yeah, that's fascinating. I'm currently teaching a class at the 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:18.920 community college to class about pre sixteen hundred history, and like, 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:21.520 I teach a little bit every year, right, and every 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:25.440 year I've seen what AI use. But this year this 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:30.000 is fully blackpilled me, Like, I don't quite know how 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:35.120 to describe the feelings I'm experiencing, I guess, but it's 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.360 class I assigned like David Graeber, I assigned Jim Scott, 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.320 I assigned Charles Tilly on state making and war making, right, 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:46.320 Like very basic left libertarian kind of text, right, which 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.480 for many people will be the first time they encounter 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.560 the concept of like what if no state? What if 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:56.120 state bad? And I think they're all writing in a 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.680 way that's very approachable to people who don't, you know, 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:02.680 the dense academic writing is annoying and pretentious, and I 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.360 don't like it every time I do this, cause it 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:06.960 used to be the case that, like thirty to forty ten, 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:09.840 the students would be like, holy fuck. Whether they like 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.720 it or not, it's a new concept and it's cool, 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.080 and they engage with it in like a passionate way, 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:20.560 a human way. Every year it's got worse, and now, 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.200 like I can think of two students out of one 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.920 hundred who are like engaging with it in any human way, 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.599 and I'm sure most of them. I would imagine they 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:31.839 buy the a I summarize the text, or in many 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:35.760 cases they certainly have used AI to just respond. I 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.640 let my students respond in ways that they feel appropriate, right, 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:42.240 so that they could do videos or different things if 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.360 they wanted to do, like a they wanted to make 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.320 a video about doing an essay, that's fine with me. 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:47.719 I don't care. I just want them to read the 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:52.359 shit think about it. But like, there's been no human reaction, 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:54.480 and that's so sad to me. Like the reason they 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.880 teach is to get young people to see the world differently. 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:01.919 It certainly isn't for the fucking money, and that's just 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:03.839 might be in capable of doing that now, or like 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:08.159 I can't get through that alienation that like I can't 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:12.920 get people to engage, and like, think about it. Obviously, 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:14.520 I got to work that shit out, right, Like this 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:17.719 generation of people who went through high school when AI 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:21.279 was the thing and detecting AI use in long form 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:23.440 writing was not very well developed, so they were able 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.200 to use it instead of doing long form writing and 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.800 maybe even reading long form, And like, I have to 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:32.680 work out how to get those people to engage not 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.680 to be so sort of alienated from the concept of 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.400 reading and absorbing big ideas. But I haven't fucking worked 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:40.920 it out yet. 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:45.200 Yeah, it's it's a really big issue, and it's only cruent, 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.800 you know, as EI expands, I mean, it's not so 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:51.800 much the focus of this episode, but it is something 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.240 that I wanted to touch on. You know, people used 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:56.280 to be doing fine without it, used to be well 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.560 to function without A three years ago, and now you 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.000 talk to them and they can't live without it. They 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:05.400 have to run everything through AI. You know, people have 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:11.200 offloaded most of their cognitive processes the yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.240 you know, and you know we talk about the environmental 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:17.360 impact of that, the way the data centers are damage 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.960 in the environment, taking fresh water and taking vast amounts 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.720 of energy from the system. So we all rely upon 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.640 to live and you know, we could, as we touched on, 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:30.920 talk about called schools and the education systems pretty much 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.600 falling apart. Yeah, I mean, I know you're one of those, 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:40.760 you know, genuinely passionate professors. But what I've noticed is 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:44.599 this this whole fast now in many sections of the 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:50.080 education system where you have students AI summarize in material 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:55.159 if even doing that, you know, submitting AI generated essays 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:59.280 or AI generated material, and the professors just AI created. 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:01.600 Yeah, I heard of this. 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:05.039 So it's just one one big puppet show, you know, 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:07.359 one one big fast god. 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:12.400 Yeah, yeah, exactly, one big charade, which you know, to 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:14.600 an extent, education has always just been that, right, one 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:18.120 big fast. But there are things that are redeemable about it. 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:20.720 And I'm just talking about teaching now, and I'll stop 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.040 in a minute. There's very little demand for in person 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:27.440 classes compared to online classes anymore, so like that makes 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:31.200 it harder for us to break through that alienation, right, 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:35.760 Like there's something special about sitting in a room and 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:38.440 talking just just find it's just like being like, we're 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.040 going to be here for ninety minutes, none of us 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.360 in It's a dynamic, yeah, and it's an important dynamic. 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:46.800 Like the function of the university is to fucking turn 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.080 out people with stem degrees who can go on and 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:52.600 make shitty apps. We don't need. It's to prepare us 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:55.880 to be citizens in the community, exactly, and we are 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:59.400 failing at that. And yeah, instead I'm just great and 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:00.640 chet GP deal day know. 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.480 Yeah, And that's that's a big piece of the puzzle 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:07.640 that we end up missing, because the way in which 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:10.760 the sort of dynamics and the connections that you would 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:14.280 get from the university class room and beyond just social 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.240 connections in general is lacking and alienated world. And it's 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:21.880 wisened by you know, the instruction of the I I 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:26.080 managed to complete most of my education, most of my 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:31.280 bachelor's degree, that is, prior to the pandemic. Right, I 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:35.319 was nearing the end of my third year when lockdown, 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:37.040 you know, came into FOCE, and then it just I 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.960 did my entire fourth year online, and honestly, I'm so 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:43.679 glad that I was able to do my classes in Boson, 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:48.120 you know, and I'm so glad that I did my classes, 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:50.920 you know, entirely on my own in a time where 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.600 you know, yeah, I was not a thing. You know, 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:56.679 there were times where you know, it probably feels like, 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.160 oh my god, it's so stressful, like, but you just 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:02.560 had a buckle had to buckle down and figure out 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.520 a way to get it done. And because we could 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:09.280 talk about the perverse incentives of breeding systems and schools 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.960 and how that sort of pushes some students who you know, 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:16.680 may have learning difficulties or time management difficulties or whatever 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.160 to actually do their stuff, they end up going down 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:22.520 the I route. But yeah, I mean, even just looking 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:26.600 back at my experience because lockdown hits during the semester, 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:29.160 I had a writing class that I was a part of, 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.920 and every time we went into class, it was so dynamic, 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:35.360 was so lively, it was so engaging. All the ideas 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.680 were just bouncing off for each other. After the lockdown, 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.160 that class completely feels a lout. Everything that we were 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:45.760 getting from it was just absent because we were entirely online. 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:51.120 And yeah, it's really a struggle and I think social 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:54.400 life that's coming out of the education conversation, social life, 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:59.000 community and connection all ends up lacking because of the 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:01.880 aliens and need of the system the way that things 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.320 have been set up. But also AI is playing a 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:08.080 major role too. AI in a sense as a category 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.679 is you know, you can have a whole discussion about 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:14.040 that quibbolo for definitions. But in a sense AAI has 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:16.680 already been playing a major role into how people socialize 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:19.240 even before these large language models came to be in 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:22.760 because you have a sort of artificial intelligence in the 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:27.240 algorithms that people interact with on social media. You know, 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:32.800 people have the content they consume being curated by algorithms. 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:37.000 They end up in these sort of echo chambers, these 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:42.440 reinforcement loops and outrage bait and then dopamine loops, and 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:46.840 all those things have lended to people spending more and 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:51.480 more time online because you know, it's hitting that part 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:55.560 of the brain, and everybody is hyper connected and always online, 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.240 and more and more of life takes place on the Internet, 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:02.920 and that has left people feel and isolated. I think 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:08.960 loneliness is obviously not entirely the result of social media 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:13.640 and now AI, but the sort of irony is that 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:19.520 loneliness has been a side effect of this digital hyperconnection. Yeah, 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:21.839 when you look at some of the factors that are 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:26.079 contributing to this this already isolated nature of our world, right, 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:29.000 you know, people don't have as much free time. You know, 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:31.240 there's in as much public space as there used to be. 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:35.120 Some people have no public space available to them. Public 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:38.040 spaces that do exist are not open in the times 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:41.120 when people are available to go to them. Libraries are 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.200 a famous example. A lot of them are you know, 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:47.400 not open for working people pretty much. And then people 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:49.360 who do want to go out and socialize and stuff, 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:51.240 you know, you're dealing with the higher cost of living, 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.160 so there's little resources that you can use to you know, 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:55.920 go and put yourself out there because you have to 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:59.320 spend money to go to places. And then it also 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:03.000 just moons out energy ys because of you know, the 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.200 long work week, long work hours, just trying to make 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:09.240 against meet psychological to all of that. Yeah, and so 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:12.920 part of what AI has been doing is pushing these 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:16.360 AI companions on people. And you know, I don't mean 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:18.360 to fair mongo or anything, because I know there a 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.280 lot of people who reject AI and who stand against AI, 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:23.760 and of course that could just be the bubble that 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:28.679 I'm in. But yeah, I also know somebody in person, 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.719 or rather I knew somebody in person who spoke to 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:40.439 chat reipt like their partner and therapists. Yeah, they listen like, yeah, 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:45.920 that's it's I mean, it's sad. Yeah, it's as you said, 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:50.840 almost kind of black pillar, you know, because these chatbots 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:57.600 they listen in a simulated sense, they respond in a 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:02.160 simulated sense, and they affirm with the certain is dealing with, 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.800 is going through, is venting about. They're almost like a 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:10.600 hug box because you don't really see chatbots disagreeing with 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.200 the people they're speaking to. Chetbots are very much like 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:18.040 you know, fawning, you know, they try their best to 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.600 affume everything that a person is telling them. So you 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.679 have this kind of cuddle box for people's egos, which, 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:26.839 in two, it makes it even more difficult for them 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:28.840 to connect to real people because you know, real people 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.240 are going to call you out. You know, they're going 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:34.000 to disagree with you, You're going to have friction and conflict, 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.560 but there's also a lot of joy becomes for interact 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.960 with real people, and unfortunately a lot of people, because 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:45.280 they're not getting that, they're turned into this on demand affection, 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:51.880 this on demand flirtation, this pseudo therapy, and it's it's brutal, 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.800 you know, Loneliness is a brutal experience. Relationships are very hard, 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.880 and therapy is extremely expensive for a lot of people. 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:12.360 So I understand that, you know, you can only put 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.480 so much blame on individuals because the will is not 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.680 really set up to support those kind of lasting connections. Yeah, 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.880 people live very spread out. They have few and fewer 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:24.720 opportunities to interact with each other. In fact, a lot 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:29.200 of times, the last time a Polson had extended exposure 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.720 with other people was in school or in college. And 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:37.240 outside of that, you're just kind of on your own. Yeah, 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:41.200 and places are increasingly not walkable, the more cor eccentric, 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:47.560 the sort of spontaneity and friction and interaction that would 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:52.600 have made relationships blossom naturally and the religious possible, as 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:55.760 messy and inconvenience as they can be, sometimes those things 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:59.480 are lacking now and unfortunately some for action of people. 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:01.480 And I don't know what the actual number would be 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:03.960 because I can imagine a lot of people will not 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:08.120 admit that they turn into a chatbot for companionship. But 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:14.000 it is a frightening woman of what their action we're 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:18.800 going in, and I also worry about the potential outcomes 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:24.480 of you know, egoic behavior that might results from that 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:28.120 sort of continue us interaction with something that is affirming 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:32.240 in every belief and thought and conclusion. What kind of 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:33.520 google are we going to be there? First? 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:38.160 You know? Yeah, it's the world that super rich people 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:42.040 already live in. One of the reasons that the gulf 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:44.280 between the rest of us and the super rich, like 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:48.200 the really you know, incredibly wealthy people. Part of that 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:49.800 is that no one says no to a lot of 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.960 those people, and that's why they exclusively end up socializing 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:59.120 with each other, right, Like they're they're surrounded by nothing 0:15:59.160 --> 0:15:59.880 of the affirmation. 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:00.640 Right. 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:02.680 One of the things we see was Trump, right, is 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:04.760 that like, if there is a reality that he doesn't like, 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:08.760 he manifests his own reality. He just speaks things and 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:12.920 expects them to be accepted as truths. Right. Growing up, 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:16.120 my dad worked for a lot of extremely wealthy people, 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.320 and so I've interacted with them, and like, there's a 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.640 lot of people who just aren't used to hearing no 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.240 or why, but not a lot that there is a 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:26.760 number of them, and like I think when you see 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.720 I was just thinking about it. The behavior that you know, 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.000 did Trump now asserting with the Epstein thing is like 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.440 it is made up, right, and it's a hoax, and 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:36.520 it just when we were talking about AI. It sort 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.600 of reminds me of that, right, that like constant affirmation, 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:41.000 because what a I want you to do is to 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.560 please you so that you spend more time on it, 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:45.920 I assume. And there's some way that it attempts to 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:47.840 monetize that, I'm sure, and it just wants you to 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:49.800 keep interacting with it so it can get more information 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:51.240 to take into its model. I guess. 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:54.040 Yeah. The dates are called rush. 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:55.760 Yeah, right, And and people are doing the same with 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:57.840 with wealthy people, right, They just want to interact with 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:00.000 them so they can siphon off some of the resources 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.800 is that those people have accumulated, Like it's not maybe 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:06.080 it's not the same. I think that's still humans interacting 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:10.200 with wealthy people is distinct from an AI interacting with humans, 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:12.560 but it sort of gives us a window into what 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:15.640 the impact of that being most of your human interaction 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:16.240 over time. 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.520 Indeed, Indeed, and as we speak of wealthy people, I 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.240 suppose we should look at the other way in which 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:27.679 EI is intersected with alienation, right, because you know, for 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.440 the current narrative has been about you know, EI is 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.920 taking jobs, and before then it was about automation was 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:38.520 taking jobs. EI is you know, a form of automation, 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:43.040 and before that it was just innovations in general, just 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:48.280 steps in some technological direction would be eliminating jobs. But 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.199 always marveled at stepping back and looking at the whole 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:54.200 conversation about this has taking jobs, that has taken jobs 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:58.160 is at the root of it is this dependence on employment, 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.800 on jobs for people to have, you know, life, to 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:05.480 be able to have a quality of life. We have 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:09.600 gotten more and more productive, and I mean that productivity 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:11.879 has helped people in some ways, and it's harm to 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:15.800 the environment in a lot of ways. But we have 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:19.560 a certain level of productivity now and we've produced so 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.560 much now that in some sectors we have more of 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:25.680 the enough for several decades to come. I think fashion 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:28.480 is one of them where we have like quite the 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:32.520 excess of clothing everybody. And of course you can talk 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.119 about how that level of productivity is done damage to 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:39.240 our creativity or craftsmanship, but it's all the worse when 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.440 you think about how even with all that productivity, the 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.920 work has hardly benefited. You know, more productivity doesn't necessarily 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:48.840 mean more pay. And so even before EI came around, 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.320 we were having issues with labor and alienation, right, people 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:54.920 disconnected from their work from whether it be a service job, 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:59.320 a factory job, or delivery job, whatever, any of these 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:01.960 jobs that you look at, it's structured at the end 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.840 of the day, not around providing a product or providing 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:11.560 a service, but around profit, around the podynamic between the owner, 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:15.840 the capitalist and the worker. The worker who is not 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.639 in control, is alienated from their labor and from the 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.840 products of their labor. And this is what Marx famously 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.680 spoke about, but he wasn't the only one to speak 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:29.480 about it. This sort of alienated labor that is compelled 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.679 rather than creative, that has no control for work, and 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:38.040 where workers are treated as commodities on a labor market Tankfully, 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:40.160 i haven't had to look for a job in a while, 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:44.199 but I've had to see my friends seeking jobs and 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:49.000 it's not a nice experience. And I have to spend weeks, 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:53.640 months sometimes looking for a job. But you will most 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:56.840 likely heed, but you need to survive. You know, and 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:58.520 a lot of these jobs you end up looking for, 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.439 end up getting into, and you've unnecessary jobs. There are 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.399 a lot of bullshit jobs, and I don't contribute to 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:08.240 a person's you know, development and fulfillment or they could 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:12.640 have humanity in any way. Yeah, and then a lot 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:14.760 of the benefits that people have fought for, even for 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:18.480 these jobs have either been eroded, you know, rolled back 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:23.199 over time, or they've been loopholed out. So you know, 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.240 for example, you don't even get enough hours to qualify 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:30.719 for benefits when you work at certain places, or you 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:35.239 are an independent contractor instead of an employee, so they 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:38.480 can get away from you know, giving me your due. 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.040 And so then in this environment you have EI coming 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:47.760 in now and taking certain rules varying levels of quality 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:52.400 and writing and in art and coding and administrative work. 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.240 And I don't know, I think for one, EI does 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:58.560 a lot of these jobs very poorly. But then there's 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:02.600 also cases where I don't like copyrighting, which is something 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:06.920 I used to do. The Yeah, copyrighting and the sort 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:10.800 of copyrighting that I had to write is back in 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:15.160 the day. It's almost indistinguishable in terms of it feels generic, 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:19.000 quite less. You know slop, Like it's just you're pumping 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:22.439 this out to pollute the airwaves in a sense. 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:26.200 Yeah, it's very like it has a very formulaic nature 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:29.439 when a human does it. It's funny when I think 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.520 about copywriting, right, Like you can see the people have 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:35.880 identified the completely generic nature of it, because occasionally you'll 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:39.240 have like brands who do it in a non formulaic 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:42.680 way and briefly see success from it, like just by 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:46.399 having some element of humanity in it. 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:49.000 Yeah, like Wendy is when they did that for a 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.159 little while, and yeah, then every brand to copy that 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:53.920 method and then it became steel and. 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.880 Yeah, yeah, some almost sometimes like puncturate for a minute, 0:21:56.880 --> 0:21:58.840 and then like you say, everyone will run after it 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:02.320 like a viper. Sunglasses, this one, I guess they're very 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:05.520 popular with like right wing bigots. Every time like biggots 0:22:05.520 --> 0:22:08.040 are pictured in their sunglasses, they'll like donate money to 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.879 LGBTQ affirming causes or like gender affirming care stuff or 0:22:12.920 --> 0:22:15.720 whatever depends what the people are being bigoted about. And 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:17.600 like briefly I saw them have success with that just 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:20.359 because like people are so accustomed to brand's being a 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:23.679 political rather than just being like no, fuck you. So 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:27.040 by doing the kind of basics of being a good person, 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:31.040 it appears human and therefore not so generic, and people 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:34.480 you know, briefly fall in love with it or whatever. 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:37.200 Yeah. But I mean at the end of the day, 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:42.879 of the corporations and our potsons, there are people behind corporations. Yeah, 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:45.000 And I guess I sat that sort of wonder with 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:48.240 these kinds of jobs that are all being build in 0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:53.240 at recent part by EI, what is the impact on 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:58.360 our pots self worse? Oh yeah, but they're they're skilled 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:03.040 to be just sort of swapped out for a machine. 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:06.800 You know, a lot of people have already felt that 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:09.399 their work is non essential, and then you have a 0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:14.320 sense of being replaceable and unneeded. And in some cases 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:17.160 the difference is negligible because, like I said, the work 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:19.520