WEBVTT - Misty Upham 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:07.400 You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and 0:00:07.480 --> 0:00:11.160 Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:14.120 are solely those of the individuals participating in the show 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:17.560 and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV. 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.280 This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.160 for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:30.200 Hi, everyone, welcome back to Facing Evil. I'm Vet gent 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:32.440 Lay and I'm Roschia Pecquerrero. 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:36.199 This week we are talking about the shocking death of 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:40.520 Misty Upham, a thirty two year old Indigenous actress whose 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:42.880 star was on the rise in Hollywood. 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:48.240 Misty was in movies like august Osage County, Jango, Unchained, 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:52.680 and Frozen River. She also appeared in TV shows like 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:56.880 Big Love, and she was applauded as an Indigenous woman 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.840 for achieving a measure of mainstream success. 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:04.560 Yes, but her personal story reveals a life full of tragedy, 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:10.840 including sexual violence, racial prejudice, and mental illness. There were 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:14.360 signs for months that Misty was in crisis, but even 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:17.479 as a burgeoning movie star, she was unable to get 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:21.280 the help that she's so desperately needed. After she died, 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:26.480 actors like Juliette Lewis, were outspoken in their rage about 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:31.920 this tragic loss, which they insist was completely preventable. But 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.360 the real question is how did Misty slip through the cracks. 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:39.399 Today we're talking once again with our friend Jim Trainham, 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:44.640 a private consultant and former detective with the Metropolitan Police Department. Yes, 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:47.760 but now our producer Trevor is going to walk us 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:48.920 through today's case. 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.520 Missy Upham has been found now official say a family 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:56.920 member found her along a river near Seattle. 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:00.360 Upham was reported missing by our family October sixth Her 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.640 father said the star was suicidal. Her dad also said 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:07.320 Missy had stopped taking medication for anxiety and bipolar disorder 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:08.560 before she disappeared. 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.560 When I found acting, I found home, and it was 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:13.400 like a home that nobody could. 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:14.040 Take away from me. 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:18.760 Misty Upham was a thirty two year old woman who 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:22.480 was found dead at the bottom of a ravine in Auburn, Washington, 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:28.200 on October sixteenth, twenty fourteen. She had disappeared eleven days earlier. 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:32.640 Misty was a Native American actress, well known for roles 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:36.520 in films like Django. Unchained in august Osh County, she 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:39.760 was also a member of the Blackfeet Nation tribe in Montana. 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.360 Misty was born in nineteen eighty two to Charles and 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:46.880 Mona Upham. The family moved back and forth for years 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:51.200 on and off the Blackfeet Reservation in Montana. Her father, Charles, 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:53.880 was determined to get his children away from the reservation, 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.280 which he viewed as a dead end. In addition to 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:02.320 frequently moving, Misty experienced descript nation. One best friend was 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.840 once forbidden from playing with her after her parents learned 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:09.919 she was Native. On the reservation, Misty was frequently jumped 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:12.440 and beat up for having more money than other kids. 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.880 At age thirteen, she was gang raped on the reservation 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:20.600 and began to suffer panic attacks. She was prescribed psychiatric medication, 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:23.760 but she abused it and began abusing alcohol as well. 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:28.799 She also began cutting herself and considered suicide. Despite these 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:33.760 considerable hardships, Misty had ambitious dreams. She wanted to act, 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:36.320 and she got her start in a nonprofit youth theater 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:40.000 group for Indigenous kids. Misty Starr began to rise in 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.040 earnest in the early two thousands with an appearance in 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:45.840 the film Skins. She went on to appear in more 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:49.600 TV movies and shows, including Big Love and the aforementioned 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.240 Django Unchained. In twenty thirteen, she landed a role as 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:56.880 a housekeeper in august Osah County. This role threw her 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:59.680 in with the star studded cast that included Meryl Streep, 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:04.440 Julia Roberts, and George Clooney, but her hardships continued at 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.760 the Golden Globe Awards. Earlier that year, she was allegedly 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:11.360 raped by a Weinstein Company executive in a bathroom. She 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.760 did not report the rape because she feared retribution from 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.320 the company and the industry. The next year, she moved 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.160 from California to Washington State to help care for her 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:25.159 father after he suffered a stroke. In Washington that summer, 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:28.520 Misty had a hard time re establishing her psychiatric care 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.040 and relied on the er of her treatment for her 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:35.440 depression PTSD and bipolar disorder. As the summer wore on, 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:39.920 her mental state declined. She experienced several breakdowns during which 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:44.800 her family had to institutionalize her involuntarily. During one such incident, 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:48.839 police officers mocked her claims of being a Hollywood actress. 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.880 On October fifth, twenty fourteen, Misty was in a bad state. 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:56.920 Fearing for her safety, her father called nine one one. 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:00.080 She saw this and fled the house. Charles up and 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.599 ran after her, but was stopped by arriving police, who 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:06.400 insisted on searching the house, even as he told them 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.920 she'd fled. The cops refused to search for Misty outside 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.440 the house, saying they had to wait until she'd been 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.799 missing for at least twenty four hours. After the fact, 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:18.040 the police commander said that this was not at all 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:22.760 their policy. The next day, Charles reported Misty missing. The 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:27.400 detective assigned to the case repeatedly refused to organize a search, saying, 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:32.520 according to Charles, quote, she's probably off partying somewhere. Six 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:36.120 days later, on October thirteenth, the detective in charge wrote 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:39.200 to an officer asking about the outcomes of the search results. 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:44.120 She responded, quote outcome, nothing has been done yet. And 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.360 then three days later, a volunteer search team organized by 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:51.040 the family discovered Misty's body in a steep ravine near 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:54.720 the apartment where she'd been staying. The volunteer party, all 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:59.080 indigenous individuals, said the police did not think or help them. 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:02.479 Police eventually found no evidence of foul play, and the 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:05.120 family believed that she slipped and fell into the ravine 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:09.520 while fleeing her home. The circumstances surrounding the investigation into 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.919 Misty Upham's disappearance caused an uproar and drew attention to 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.080 a larger problem. At the time of her disappearance, she 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:18.800 was just one of thousands of missing Indigenous women in 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:23.440 North America. And so what happened to Misty Upham, why 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:26.440 did the police ignore her disappearance? And how does the 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.960 story reflect the need for better resources in cases of 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:31.640 missing or murdered Indigenous women. 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.920 Well, we have a lot to talk about with the 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:42.080 case of Misty Upham, and to help us work through this, 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:47.279 we are very excited to welcome back Jim Trainham. He 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:51.080 is a private consultant and a former detective with the 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:55.000 Metropolitan Police Department. Thank you again for coming on. 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:59.040 I'm glad to be here. So whatever insight I can offer, 0:06:59.120 --> 0:06:59.960 I'm happy to do it. 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:02.800 Well, you know, before we get into the case, can 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:05.160 you tell us a little bit about you know, what 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:08.719 you've been working on. We know that you just finished 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:12.840 Freeway Phantom, which is you know out and it's an incredible, 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:17.640 incredible podcast. I recommend all of our listeners to download 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:20.320 that particular podcast, but talk about that or tell us 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:20.880 what you're doing. 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:23.960 Yes, there's a couple of podcasts that I have been 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:28.640 involved in trying to help get information out about older 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:31.840 cases like the Freeway Fanom and all of that. And 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:37.040 the Freeway Fanom case itself had some similarities with this 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.560 case and that it involved you know, African American girls 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:44.280 and back in the seventies, and the police response was 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:48.760 actually pretty slow at first for many reasons. One is 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:53.160 the department was occupied with anti war demonstrations back during 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:57.280 the Vietnam War. Watergate was you know, happening, so resources 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:01.000 kept getting pulled off. But also these case at first, 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:05.320 we're just not given the priority that we have come 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:08.760 to learn is necessary. And so when you look at 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:11.360 these old cases, you're not only you know, looking at 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:15.120 them with an eye towards trying to solve them, but 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:19.280 you're also highlighting some of the problems that they existed 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.440 back then. But many of them still exist today. It's 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:26.280 important that we try to learn from our mistakes and 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.680 get better at what we do. But oftentimes, because law 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:35.319 enforcement is so fragmented in this country that it's difficult 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.679 to get the message out there, especially to like some 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.839 of the smaller departments that don't have the resources right 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:43.600 of larger ones as well. 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:45.200 That's so true, Jim. 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.880 And you know, with Freeway Phantom, that's back in the seventies, 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.960 but Misty Upham was much more recent. But she was 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:57.200 also a person of color who was overlooked. Like, what 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:01.680 were your first impressions or reactions when learning about Misty's case? 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:04.640 Just that it's and this is going to be depressing, 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:08.199 is that this is not a typical type of case. 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:13.040 It's not one that stands out as being all that unusual. 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:16.400 You see cases like this or cases that have these 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:22.200 components occur all the time, and oftentimes it's it's because 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:26.120 of the way the system works or doesn't work. It's 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:29.240 our own biases that we bring to the table when 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:32.880 we're trying to make decisions, and you know, just people 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:36.280 become defensive rather than say, yeah, we made a mistake, 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.560 this is what we need to do or you change 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.600 that sort of thing. So, you know, that's that's what 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.959 really kind of struck me, not only the things about 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:47.760 it that you can say are unusual, but just how 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:50.200 usual this case is. 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:54.240 It's so true, you know, I always familiar with the 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:58.000 case because you know, there was a few movies that 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:02.319 I loved, which was Frozen River. So I was familiar 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:06.359 with who she was, and I loved her her subtlety 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:10.079 of acting. Did you know about this case? Like, how 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.000 familiar were you with this case? 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.720 I wasn't familiar with it at all until you reached 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:17.960 out to me and I started looking over some of 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:21.120 the material right there. So a lot of these cases 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:25.520 don't get out into the public unless her background in 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.679 movies and all of that that made it more interesting 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:31.760 to some people. You know, when I started looking into it. 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:34.280 One of the things that really struck me was how 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:39.400 self aware Misty was of her problems. Yeah, she recognized 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:44.840 that she definitely had mental health issues, she knew where 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:48.800 they came from, she wanted help. But when she spiraled 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:53.160 out of control, of course, that's when her rational side 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.760 was lost, and so you know, that's what they were 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.120 having to deal with. The Other thing is is that, 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:02.200 you know, just the issue with mental health in this country. 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.560 You know, law enforcement agency is a foundly saying no, this 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.240 is something that we really can't handle. I mean, we're 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.240 ill equipped to handle, right, and yet it's forced upon 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:14.760 us all the time. Oftentimes, like in this case, you know, 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:17.599 you get a call, you get there, you're supposed to 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.160 handle it quickly and move on to the next call, 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:24.760 and cases like this you can't handle quickly now. But 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:27.360 just the fact that you know, she wanted help and 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:30.200 they went to get her help, and because of the 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:34.280 funding that was available to her, she was put off 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:39.040 for months. And just from my own experience, when somebody 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.839 who has mental health issues, when they say I want help, 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.800 they need it, then it has to happen then, yeah, 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:48.440 because they're not in a position where they can put 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:52.320 it off. They're ready now. And so that's one of 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:55.880 the biggest obstacles that we really need to overcome, that 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.120 when you're ready, it has to be there. Her having 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:03.439 to rely on emergency room care for her mental health treatment, 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:06.600 that was far from the best. Yeah. And then, like 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.920 I said, law enforcement officers being called to come in 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:14.040 and step into a situation that they're ill prepared for, 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.400 and that their response is Okay, snatch her up, get 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.360 her to at the hospital. Oh no, she's kicked out again. 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.120 Here we go again, you know that sort of thing. 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:25.800 So they become callous. 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:30.440 Yeah, yeah, I think that's an interesting word that you chose, Jim. Like, 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.040 you know, I put myself in that position, and I 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.120 never had or have had mental health issues the way 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:40.080 that Misty was open about having. But I myself have 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:44.720 definitely been through PTSD and trauma. But I was fortunate 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:48.840 and am fortunate enough to be in therapy. I was 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:53.320 in trauma therapy, you know, after witnessing a traumatic death 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:55.680 on board as a flight attendant. And I remember going 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:59.079 through that intensive therapy and counseling and thinking, oh my god, 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:01.800 I wish every single person who had ever been through 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.680 any type of trauma could go through this so that 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:06.560 you have tools to use. 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:08.400 When you get into those dark, dark places. 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:11.720 And you're so right, Like mental health it needs to 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:16.440 be available to everyone. And police officers they're not trained 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.160 in that, yep. And that's that's not their fault, but 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.920 that's definitely something we need to take a step towards 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.920 or getting people who are trained in mental health to 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.240 maybe go on these calls with police officers. I don't 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:29.000 know what the answer is. 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.560 I'm just well, at least have a resource that you 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.720 can call, Yeah, have somebody you can reach out to 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.160 and say, this is my situation. You know, what do 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:38.079 I do right? 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:39.080 Who do I talk to? 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:43.360 Right? Help me walk through this. I just remember decades ago, 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:44.959 back during my paramedic days. 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:46.280 Oh you were a paramedic. 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.760 I worked as a firefighter paramedic for Arlington County for 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:51.599 many years, which is right next to d C. 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:52.120 Oh wow. 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.240 And you know, having people with mental health issues who 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:00.880 would repeatedly call for medical services and then trying to 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:03.160 set up something so that they wouldn't have to call 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:06.320 nine one wife, so that they had something in place. 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:09.520 I just remember being from the phone for hours, getting 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:13.560 bounced from one to the other. It's somewhat better now, 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:17.320 but still, you know the law enforcement officer, he's out there. 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.000 He's basically told you got to handle this situation quickly. 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:25.560 And just looking at the annual report of this department, 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:29.040 they are a small agency. Now. It does not excuse 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.320 many things that happened in his pace. It does not 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:35.960 excuse like when that one time when she had a 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:40.200 crisis and she was taken into custody, the officer taunting her. Yeah, 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.280 it doesn't excuse the fact that when the complaint was 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:48.760 initially made, the department responded, oh no, we responded appropriately 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:53.840 and compassionately, and yet later on when it's under invest 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:57.960 further investigation, the officer admitted that, yeah, I did that, 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:00.240 but of course the excuse that he gives is that 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.600 he was trying to shake her out of it or whatever, 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:03.720 you know, that sort of thing. 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.920 You know, Rassia, you know, you were very fortunate to 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.600 have all the resources, like you said, but there are 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:35.080 so many that don't have any resources or anyone to 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.400 reach out to. And then if the nine to one 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:41.520 one you know, is called the police come and these 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:45.440 people are having manic episodes or they're gonna end up 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.520 going to jail, not to er first, and that's a 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.720 whole nother experience in itself. 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.080 Right. Our first step is to control, you know, we're 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:57.880 going to bring the situation under control. And the way 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.880 that we control things is through four and through incarceration. 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.800 And once the person gets incarcerated for something like this, 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:10.160 then you know they have that stigma. Yeah, so can incarceration, 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:12.760 even you know, for minor things, can cause them to 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:16.000 maybe lose a job, lose health insurance, So it's a 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:16.840 downward spiral. 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.120 Yeah, but I do appreciate you saying that, you know, 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:25.040 police officers are just they're not equipped to handle that 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.960 type of situation. So, you know, because we have a 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.680 lot of police officers in our family and they're amazing 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:34.160 human beings, but there comes a time, you know, where 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:39.400 you need other parties to come in and handle these 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:44.440 particular situations. So again, we've come a long way, but 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:46.720 we still have such a long way to go. 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.960 And like you said, this wasn't all that long ago. No, 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.120 I haven't been able to pull up anything on the 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:58.200 departments current policies in reference to missing persons or mental 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.600 illness and all that. But going through like their twenty 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:05.320 eighteen annual report, there was really nothing in there about, 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.800 you know, them handling this. So four years later after 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.800 this happened, you know, they hadn't really made any public 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:16.320 adjustments to deal with situations like this, and you know, 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:21.320 hopefully by now they have been. But still, even if 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:25.040 you have processes in place, like supposedly they claimed they 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:29.240 did here about reporting missing persons, you know, the officer 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:31.520 first told the family that, oh, you can't report a 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:33.280 missing person for twenty four hours? 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:34.160 Is that true? 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:34.360 Though? 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:37.520 I thought that wasn't even a that's not true. Yeah, okay, yeah, 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:39.240 I didn't think that was a real policy. 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:43.440 And in fact, over the last god, even before this occurred, 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:47.480 most agencies were saying, no, you take a missing person 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.560 report right away. Now, maybe it's because she didn't fall 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.880 into a neat box, Okay, because she had just run 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:55.520 out of the home. 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:56.600 Right, she was. 0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:00.800 Suicidal, she was in a crisis, and yet technically she's 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.560 not missing, you know, could they have thought of it 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:07.400 that way? But because they classified it as a suicidal 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:10.760 incident or whatever. But a lot of agencies, my old 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.120 agency as well, this would have been classified as a 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:19.600 critical missing person right because she was, which means you 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:22.760 set up a command post, which means you pull out 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:24.919 the stops and you you know, get out there and 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:26.920 you start, you know, putting it out on the news, 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.040 and you start doing your searches and things like that. 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:33.520 I noticed that one of the criticisms that the family 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:38.400 had was that when the police first arrived there, they 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:41.040 you know, stop the father who was trying to go 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:45.119 after missing and then they searched the house. And I'm going, well, 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.760 why would they do that, right, she's not house. The 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:50.879 only thing I can think of is that when it 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:53.359 comes to like missing children, and one of the first 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:55.280 things that you do is you actually search the house 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:59.800 because sometimes they're hiding in the house or they've fallen 0:18:59.880 --> 0:19:02.280 us leap at a closet or something like that, Right, 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:06.200 And so maybe they were doing it because they knew 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:08.119 that she was in a crisis, maybe she was in 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:10.400 the house, whatever, they just want to be sure. I mean, 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:13.679 based on the scenario that we have here, and I 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:16.760 don't have a full understanding because I don't know, like 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:20.560 how close her body was found to her house was 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.520 far I believe, and so the scenario that, yeah, she 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:27.520 was trying to get away and she went down there 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.199 and fell, she might have been, you know, dead by 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:33.320 the time they found her if they had continued to search. 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:35.560 But you know, she might not have been. We don't 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:39.000 know the extent of her injuries and things along that line, And. 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:42.320 That's the question we're here to answer, right, I mean, 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:44.800 or at least what how could it have been prevented? 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:46.000 Exactly? 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:49.840 Well, the prevention part would have come through better services 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.720 for her to help her control her crisises. The other 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:57.879 part is is that if the police response wasn't to 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:00.920 take control, just get her to the hospital and that's it. 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:06.399 And the fact that she's learned from past experience, the 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:07.320 police aren't here to. 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:09.360 Help me, right, That's why she ran. 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:14.000 Right, So all of that combined, right, they're played a 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:14.760 part in this. 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:17.560 Do you think a lot of it had to do 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:19.320 or at least some of it had to do with 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:21.560 the fact that she was indigenous? 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:23.040 She was a Native American. 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.440 And I'm not trying to say anything bad about the 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:32.400 Auburn police department, but I'm assuming there were tensions and maybe. 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:34.240 That had something to do with it. 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:38.840 I mean, Washington, Montana, the Dakota's I think there's a 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.000 lot of tension, if that's the politically correct thing to say. 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:45.240 Well, there's a lot of mistrust because just the bad 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.960 experiences that they've had with contact with the police, And 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:52.720 if you don't respond well to the police, the police 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.480 are going to have a bias against you, and they 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:58.399 start looking at all of a certain class of people 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:00.720 the same way. Now, we all have our bias, right, 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:04.400 and we can recognize our bias and we can say 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:07.600 I am not going to let that impact the way 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:10.280 that I'm making a decision here, just by acknowledging it 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:13.119 at the time, right. But yeah, just in cases that 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:16.960 I have worked that involved you know, reservations in you know, 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:20.720 Indian countries, places like that. In law enforcement, there is 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:24.800 not much you know, love between the groups right there. 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:26.320 Yeah, our trust. 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:27.239 You know. 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:30.000 The thing about it is, I think that's it's so 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:34.320 sad and so disappointing, is that she had interactions with 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:37.200 the police a few times, you know, because her parents 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:40.480 had call nine one one, you know, because she was 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:44.000 dealing with you know, mental health issues like bipolar and 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.199 you know, she had been abused, so she had these episodes, 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:50.640 so they already knew who she was. Let's just say that, right. 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.440 It's a small community, right, But so now they get 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.760 this call and like the father said, you know she's 0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:59.160 not in the house, they still go in the house 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:02.359 and they won't do what they're supposed to do. Now, 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:04.719 you got to think this is like the third fourth time, 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:07.800 and they know that there's something wrong with her, but 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:13.040 instead of being ill equipped to handle it with compassion 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:18.560 knowing that someone is sick and needs help, therefore, they 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:22.320 don't even go and check to see if she's in 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:26.959 the near vicinity. Nobody really knows exactly what happened, but 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:30.439 we do know that she was found, you know, twenty 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:33.560 five feet down this ravine by her family members, not 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:37.280 by the police. They didn't put anything out like on 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:41.359 social media. And I think that's what the family was 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:45.520 so upset about, because if it would have been the 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:49.160 chief's daughter or someone else, the mayor's daughter or someone 0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:52.479 else who was in a higher status so to speak, 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.160 they would have looked for her or him. 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:58.320 Oh absolutely, I mean the thing is, we deny that, 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:02.680 but if you just look at the response that law 0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:07.520 enforcement gives to different types of cases involving different types 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:11.840