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Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, welcome back to Facing Evil. I'm Vet gent
Speaker 2: Lay and I'm Roschia Pecquerrero.
Speaker 3: This week we are talking about the shocking death of
Speaker 3: Misty Upham, a thirty two year old Indigenous actress whose
Speaker 3: star was on the rise in Hollywood.
Speaker 2: Misty was in movies like august Osage County, Jango, Unchained,
Speaker 2: and Frozen River. She also appeared in TV shows like
Speaker 2: Big Love, and she was applauded as an Indigenous woman
Speaker 2: for achieving a measure of mainstream success.
Speaker 3: Yes, but her personal story reveals a life full of tragedy,
Speaker 3: including sexual violence, racial prejudice, and mental illness. There were
Speaker 3: signs for months that Misty was in crisis, but even
Speaker 3: as a burgeoning movie star, she was unable to get
Speaker 3: the help that she's so desperately needed. After she died,
Speaker 3: actors like Juliette Lewis, were outspoken in their rage about
Speaker 3: this tragic loss, which they insist was completely preventable. But
Speaker 3: the real question is how did Misty slip through the cracks.
Speaker 3: Today we're talking once again with our friend Jim Trainham,
Speaker 3: a private consultant and former detective with the Metropolitan Police Department. Yes,
Speaker 3: but now our producer Trevor is going to walk us
Speaker 3: through today's case.
Speaker 4: Missy Upham has been found now official say a family
Speaker 4: member found her along a river near Seattle.
Speaker 5: Upham was reported missing by our family October sixth Her
Speaker 5: father said the star was suicidal. Her dad also said
Speaker 5: Missy had stopped taking medication for anxiety and bipolar disorder
Speaker 5: before she disappeared.
Speaker 3: When I found acting, I found home, and it was
Speaker 3: like a home that nobody could.
Speaker 4: Take away from me.
Speaker 1: Misty Upham was a thirty two year old woman who
Speaker 1: was found dead at the bottom of a ravine in Auburn, Washington,
Speaker 1: on October sixteenth, twenty fourteen. She had disappeared eleven days earlier.
Speaker 1: Misty was a Native American actress, well known for roles
Speaker 1: in films like Django. Unchained in august Osh County, she
Speaker 1: was also a member of the Blackfeet Nation tribe in Montana.
Speaker 1: Misty was born in nineteen eighty two to Charles and
Speaker 1: Mona Upham. The family moved back and forth for years
Speaker 1: on and off the Blackfeet Reservation in Montana. Her father, Charles,
Speaker 1: was determined to get his children away from the reservation,
Speaker 1: which he viewed as a dead end. In addition to
Speaker 1: frequently moving, Misty experienced descript nation. One best friend was
Speaker 1: once forbidden from playing with her after her parents learned
Speaker 1: she was Native. On the reservation, Misty was frequently jumped
Speaker 1: and beat up for having more money than other kids.
Speaker 1: At age thirteen, she was gang raped on the reservation
Speaker 1: and began to suffer panic attacks. She was prescribed psychiatric medication,
Speaker 1: but she abused it and began abusing alcohol as well.
Speaker 1: She also began cutting herself and considered suicide. Despite these
Speaker 1: considerable hardships, Misty had ambitious dreams. She wanted to act,
Speaker 1: and she got her start in a nonprofit youth theater
Speaker 1: group for Indigenous kids. Misty Starr began to rise in
Speaker 1: earnest in the early two thousands with an appearance in
Speaker 1: the film Skins. She went on to appear in more
Speaker 1: TV movies and shows, including Big Love and the aforementioned
Speaker 1: Django Unchained. In twenty thirteen, she landed a role as
Speaker 1: a housekeeper in august Osah County. This role threw her
Speaker 1: in with the star studded cast that included Meryl Streep,
Speaker 1: Julia Roberts, and George Clooney, but her hardships continued at
Speaker 1: the Golden Globe Awards. Earlier that year, she was allegedly
Speaker 1: raped by a Weinstein Company executive in a bathroom. She
Speaker 1: did not report the rape because she feared retribution from
Speaker 1: the company and the industry. The next year, she moved
Speaker 1: from California to Washington State to help care for her
Speaker 1: father after he suffered a stroke. In Washington that summer,
Speaker 1: Misty had a hard time re establishing her psychiatric care
Speaker 1: and relied on the er of her treatment for her
Speaker 1: depression PTSD and bipolar disorder. As the summer wore on,
Speaker 1: her mental state declined. She experienced several breakdowns during which
Speaker 1: her family had to institutionalize her involuntarily. During one such incident,
Speaker 1: police officers mocked her claims of being a Hollywood actress.
Speaker 1: On October fifth, twenty fourteen, Misty was in a bad state.
Speaker 1: Fearing for her safety, her father called nine one one.
Speaker 1: She saw this and fled the house. Charles up and
Speaker 1: ran after her, but was stopped by arriving police, who
Speaker 1: insisted on searching the house, even as he told them
Speaker 1: she'd fled. The cops refused to search for Misty outside
Speaker 1: the house, saying they had to wait until she'd been
Speaker 1: missing for at least twenty four hours. After the fact,
Speaker 1: the police commander said that this was not at all
Speaker 1: their policy. The next day, Charles reported Misty missing. The
Speaker 1: detective assigned to the case repeatedly refused to organize a search, saying,
Speaker 1: according to Charles, quote, she's probably off partying somewhere. Six
Speaker 1: days later, on October thirteenth, the detective in charge wrote
Speaker 1: to an officer asking about the outcomes of the search results.
Speaker 1: She responded, quote outcome, nothing has been done yet. And
Speaker 1: then three days later, a volunteer search team organized by
Speaker 1: the family discovered Misty's body in a steep ravine near
Speaker 1: the apartment where she'd been staying. The volunteer party, all
Speaker 1: indigenous individuals, said the police did not think or help them.
Speaker 1: Police eventually found no evidence of foul play, and the
Speaker 1: family believed that she slipped and fell into the ravine
Speaker 1: while fleeing her home. The circumstances surrounding the investigation into
Speaker 1: Misty Upham's disappearance caused an uproar and drew attention to
Speaker 1: a larger problem. At the time of her disappearance, she
Speaker 1: was just one of thousands of missing Indigenous women in
Speaker 1: North America. And so what happened to Misty Upham, why
Speaker 1: did the police ignore her disappearance? And how does the
Speaker 1: story reflect the need for better resources in cases of
Speaker 1: missing or murdered Indigenous women.
Speaker 2: Well, we have a lot to talk about with the
Speaker 2: case of Misty Upham, and to help us work through this,
Speaker 2: we are very excited to welcome back Jim Trainham. He
Speaker 2: is a private consultant and a former detective with the
Speaker 2: Metropolitan Police Department. Thank you again for coming on.
Speaker 4: I'm glad to be here. So whatever insight I can offer,
Speaker 4: I'm happy to do it.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, before we get into the case, can
Speaker 2: you tell us a little bit about you know, what
Speaker 2: you've been working on. We know that you just finished
Speaker 2: Freeway Phantom, which is you know out and it's an incredible,
Speaker 2: incredible podcast. I recommend all of our listeners to download
Speaker 2: that particular podcast, but talk about that or tell us
Speaker 2: what you're doing.
Speaker 4: Yes, there's a couple of podcasts that I have been
Speaker 4: involved in trying to help get information out about older
Speaker 4: cases like the Freeway Fanom and all of that. And
Speaker 4: the Freeway Fanom case itself had some similarities with this
Speaker 4: case and that it involved you know, African American girls
Speaker 4: and back in the seventies, and the police response was
Speaker 4: actually pretty slow at first for many reasons. One is
Speaker 4: the department was occupied with anti war demonstrations back during
Speaker 4: the Vietnam War. Watergate was you know, happening, so resources
Speaker 4: kept getting pulled off. But also these case at first,
Speaker 4: we're just not given the priority that we have come
Speaker 4: to learn is necessary. And so when you look at
Speaker 4: these old cases, you're not only you know, looking at
Speaker 4: them with an eye towards trying to solve them, but
Speaker 4: you're also highlighting some of the problems that they existed
Speaker 4: back then. But many of them still exist today. It's
Speaker 4: important that we try to learn from our mistakes and
Speaker 4: get better at what we do. But oftentimes, because law
Speaker 4: enforcement is so fragmented in this country that it's difficult
Speaker 4: to get the message out there, especially to like some
Speaker 4: of the smaller departments that don't have the resources right
Speaker 4: of larger ones as well.
Speaker 6: That's so true, Jim.
Speaker 3: And you know, with Freeway Phantom, that's back in the seventies,
Speaker 3: but Misty Upham was much more recent. But she was
Speaker 3: also a person of color who was overlooked. Like, what
Speaker 3: were your first impressions or reactions when learning about Misty's case?
Speaker 4: Just that it's and this is going to be depressing,
Speaker 4: is that this is not a typical type of case.
Speaker 4: It's not one that stands out as being all that unusual.
Speaker 4: You see cases like this or cases that have these
Speaker 4: components occur all the time, and oftentimes it's it's because
Speaker 4: of the way the system works or doesn't work. It's
Speaker 4: our own biases that we bring to the table when
Speaker 4: we're trying to make decisions, and you know, just people
Speaker 4: become defensive rather than say, yeah, we made a mistake,
Speaker 4: this is what we need to do or you change
Speaker 4: that sort of thing. So, you know, that's that's what
Speaker 4: really kind of struck me, not only the things about
Speaker 4: it that you can say are unusual, but just how
Speaker 4: usual this case is.
Speaker 2: It's so true, you know, I always familiar with the
Speaker 2: case because you know, there was a few movies that
Speaker 2: I loved, which was Frozen River. So I was familiar
Speaker 2: with who she was, and I loved her her subtlety
Speaker 2: of acting. Did you know about this case? Like, how
Speaker 2: familiar were you with this case?
Speaker 4: I wasn't familiar with it at all until you reached
Speaker 4: out to me and I started looking over some of
Speaker 4: the material right there. So a lot of these cases
Speaker 4: don't get out into the public unless her background in
Speaker 4: movies and all of that that made it more interesting
Speaker 4: to some people. You know, when I started looking into it.
Speaker 4: One of the things that really struck me was how
Speaker 4: self aware Misty was of her problems. Yeah, she recognized
Speaker 4: that she definitely had mental health issues, she knew where
Speaker 4: they came from, she wanted help. But when she spiraled
Speaker 4: out of control, of course, that's when her rational side
Speaker 4: was lost, and so you know, that's what they were
Speaker 4: having to deal with. The Other thing is is that,
Speaker 4: you know, just the issue with mental health in this country.
Speaker 4: You know, law enforcement agency is a foundly saying no, this
Speaker 4: is something that we really can't handle. I mean, we're
Speaker 4: ill equipped to handle, right, and yet it's forced upon
Speaker 4: us all the time. Oftentimes, like in this case, you know,
Speaker 4: you get a call, you get there, you're supposed to
Speaker 4: handle it quickly and move on to the next call,
Speaker 4: and cases like this you can't handle quickly now. But
Speaker 4: just the fact that you know, she wanted help and
Speaker 4: they went to get her help, and because of the
Speaker 4: funding that was available to her, she was put off
Speaker 4: for months. And just from my own experience, when somebody
Speaker 4: who has mental health issues, when they say I want help,
Speaker 4: they need it, then it has to happen then, yeah,
Speaker 4: because they're not in a position where they can put
Speaker 4: it off. They're ready now. And so that's one of
Speaker 4: the biggest obstacles that we really need to overcome, that
Speaker 4: when you're ready, it has to be there. Her having
Speaker 4: to rely on emergency room care for her mental health treatment,
Speaker 4: that was far from the best. Yeah. And then, like
Speaker 4: I said, law enforcement officers being called to come in
Speaker 4: and step into a situation that they're ill prepared for,
Speaker 4: and that their response is Okay, snatch her up, get
Speaker 4: her to at the hospital. Oh no, she's kicked out again.
Speaker 4: Here we go again, you know that sort of thing.
Speaker 4: So they become callous.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think that's an interesting word that you chose, Jim. Like,
Speaker 3: you know, I put myself in that position, and I
Speaker 3: never had or have had mental health issues the way
Speaker 3: that Misty was open about having. But I myself have
Speaker 3: definitely been through PTSD and trauma. But I was fortunate
Speaker 3: and am fortunate enough to be in therapy. I was
Speaker 3: in trauma therapy, you know, after witnessing a traumatic death
Speaker 3: on board as a flight attendant. And I remember going
Speaker 3: through that intensive therapy and counseling and thinking, oh my god,
Speaker 3: I wish every single person who had ever been through
Speaker 3: any type of trauma could go through this so that
Speaker 3: you have tools to use.
Speaker 6: When you get into those dark, dark places.
Speaker 3: And you're so right, Like mental health it needs to
Speaker 3: be available to everyone. And police officers they're not trained
Speaker 3: in that, yep. And that's that's not their fault, but
Speaker 3: that's definitely something we need to take a step towards
Speaker 3: or getting people who are trained in mental health to
Speaker 3: maybe go on these calls with police officers. I don't
Speaker 3: know what the answer is.
Speaker 4: I'm just well, at least have a resource that you
Speaker 4: can call, Yeah, have somebody you can reach out to
Speaker 4: and say, this is my situation. You know, what do
Speaker 4: I do right?
Speaker 6: Who do I talk to?
Speaker 4: Right? Help me walk through this. I just remember decades ago,
Speaker 4: back during my paramedic days.
Speaker 6: Oh you were a paramedic.
Speaker 4: I worked as a firefighter paramedic for Arlington County for
Speaker 4: many years, which is right next to d C.
Speaker 3: Oh wow.
Speaker 4: And you know, having people with mental health issues who
Speaker 4: would repeatedly call for medical services and then trying to
Speaker 4: set up something so that they wouldn't have to call
Speaker 4: nine one wife, so that they had something in place.
Speaker 4: I just remember being from the phone for hours, getting
Speaker 4: bounced from one to the other. It's somewhat better now,
Speaker 4: but still, you know the law enforcement officer, he's out there.
Speaker 4: He's basically told you got to handle this situation quickly.
Speaker 4: And just looking at the annual report of this department,
Speaker 4: they are a small agency. Now. It does not excuse
Speaker 4: many things that happened in his pace. It does not
Speaker 4: excuse like when that one time when she had a
Speaker 4: crisis and she was taken into custody, the officer taunting her. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it doesn't excuse the fact that when the complaint was
Speaker 4: initially made, the department responded, oh no, we responded appropriately
Speaker 4: and compassionately, and yet later on when it's under invest
Speaker 4: further investigation, the officer admitted that, yeah, I did that,
Speaker 4: but of course the excuse that he gives is that
Speaker 4: he was trying to shake her out of it or whatever,
Speaker 4: you know, that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: You know, Rassia, you know, you were very fortunate to
Speaker 2: have all the resources, like you said, but there are
Speaker 2: so many that don't have any resources or anyone to
Speaker 2: reach out to. And then if the nine to one
Speaker 2: one you know, is called the police come and these
Speaker 2: people are having manic episodes or they're gonna end up
Speaker 2: going to jail, not to er first, and that's a
Speaker 2: whole nother experience in itself.
Speaker 4: Right. Our first step is to control, you know, we're
Speaker 4: going to bring the situation under control. And the way
Speaker 4: that we control things is through four and through incarceration.
Speaker 4: And once the person gets incarcerated for something like this,
Speaker 4: then you know they have that stigma. Yeah, so can incarceration,
Speaker 4: even you know, for minor things, can cause them to
Speaker 4: maybe lose a job, lose health insurance, So it's a
Speaker 4: downward spiral.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I do appreciate you saying that, you know,
Speaker 2: police officers are just they're not equipped to handle that
Speaker 2: type of situation. So, you know, because we have a
Speaker 2: lot of police officers in our family and they're amazing
Speaker 2: human beings, but there comes a time, you know, where
Speaker 2: you need other parties to come in and handle these
Speaker 2: particular situations. So again, we've come a long way, but
Speaker 2: we still have such a long way to go.
Speaker 4: And like you said, this wasn't all that long ago. No,
Speaker 4: I haven't been able to pull up anything on the
Speaker 4: departments current policies in reference to missing persons or mental
Speaker 4: illness and all that. But going through like their twenty
Speaker 4: eighteen annual report, there was really nothing in there about,
Speaker 4: you know, them handling this. So four years later after
Speaker 4: this happened, you know, they hadn't really made any public
Speaker 4: adjustments to deal with situations like this, and you know,
Speaker 4: hopefully by now they have been. But still, even if
Speaker 4: you have processes in place, like supposedly they claimed they
Speaker 4: did here about reporting missing persons, you know, the officer
Speaker 4: first told the family that, oh, you can't report a
Speaker 4: missing person for twenty four hours?
Speaker 6: Is that true?
Speaker 1: Though?
Speaker 3: I thought that wasn't even a that's not true. Yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: I didn't think that was a real policy.
Speaker 4: And in fact, over the last god, even before this occurred,
Speaker 4: most agencies were saying, no, you take a missing person
Speaker 4: report right away. Now, maybe it's because she didn't fall
Speaker 4: into a neat box, Okay, because she had just run
Speaker 4: out of the home.
Speaker 6: Right, she was.
Speaker 4: Suicidal, she was in a crisis, and yet technically she's
Speaker 4: not missing, you know, could they have thought of it
Speaker 4: that way? But because they classified it as a suicidal
Speaker 4: incident or whatever. But a lot of agencies, my old
Speaker 4: agency as well, this would have been classified as a
Speaker 4: critical missing person right because she was, which means you
Speaker 4: set up a command post, which means you pull out
Speaker 4: the stops and you you know, get out there and
Speaker 4: you start, you know, putting it out on the news,
Speaker 4: and you start doing your searches and things like that.
Speaker 4: I noticed that one of the criticisms that the family
Speaker 4: had was that when the police first arrived there, they
Speaker 4: you know, stop the father who was trying to go
Speaker 4: after missing and then they searched the house. And I'm going, well,
Speaker 4: why would they do that, right, she's not house. The
Speaker 4: only thing I can think of is that when it
Speaker 4: comes to like missing children, and one of the first
Speaker 4: things that you do is you actually search the house
Speaker 4: because sometimes they're hiding in the house or they've fallen
Speaker 4: us leap at a closet or something like that, Right,
Speaker 4: And so maybe they were doing it because they knew
Speaker 4: that she was in a crisis, maybe she was in
Speaker 4: the house, whatever, they just want to be sure. I mean,
Speaker 4: based on the scenario that we have here, and I
Speaker 4: don't have a full understanding because I don't know, like
Speaker 4: how close her body was found to her house was
Speaker 4: far I believe, and so the scenario that, yeah, she
Speaker 4: was trying to get away and she went down there
Speaker 4: and fell, she might have been, you know, dead by
Speaker 4: the time they found her if they had continued to search.
Speaker 4: But you know, she might not have been. We don't
Speaker 4: know the extent of her injuries and things along that line, And.
Speaker 3: That's the question we're here to answer, right, I mean,
Speaker 3: or at least what how could it have been prevented?
Speaker 6: Exactly?
Speaker 4: Well, the prevention part would have come through better services
Speaker 4: for her to help her control her crisises. The other
Speaker 4: part is is that if the police response wasn't to
Speaker 4: take control, just get her to the hospital and that's it.
Speaker 4: And the fact that she's learned from past experience, the
Speaker 4: police aren't here to.
Speaker 6: Help me, right, That's why she ran.
Speaker 4: Right, So all of that combined, right, they're played a
Speaker 4: part in this.
Speaker 3: Do you think a lot of it had to do
Speaker 3: or at least some of it had to do with
Speaker 3: the fact that she was indigenous?
Speaker 6: She was a Native American.
Speaker 3: And I'm not trying to say anything bad about the
Speaker 3: Auburn police department, but I'm assuming there were tensions and maybe.
Speaker 6: That had something to do with it.
Speaker 3: I mean, Washington, Montana, the Dakota's I think there's a
Speaker 3: lot of tension, if that's the politically correct thing to say.
Speaker 4: Well, there's a lot of mistrust because just the bad
Speaker 4: experiences that they've had with contact with the police, And
Speaker 4: if you don't respond well to the police, the police
Speaker 4: are going to have a bias against you, and they
Speaker 4: start looking at all of a certain class of people
Speaker 4: the same way. Now, we all have our bias, right,
Speaker 4: and we can recognize our bias and we can say
Speaker 4: I am not going to let that impact the way
Speaker 4: that I'm making a decision here, just by acknowledging it
Speaker 4: at the time, right. But yeah, just in cases that
Speaker 4: I have worked that involved you know, reservations in you know,
Speaker 4: Indian countries, places like that. In law enforcement, there is
Speaker 4: not much you know, love between the groups right there.
Speaker 6: Yeah, our trust.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: The thing about it is, I think that's it's so
Speaker 2: sad and so disappointing, is that she had interactions with
Speaker 2: the police a few times, you know, because her parents
Speaker 2: had call nine one one, you know, because she was
Speaker 2: dealing with you know, mental health issues like bipolar and
Speaker 2: you know, she had been abused, so she had these episodes,
Speaker 2: so they already knew who she was. Let's just say that, right.
Speaker 2: It's a small community, right, But so now they get
Speaker 2: this call and like the father said, you know she's
Speaker 2: not in the house, they still go in the house
Speaker 2: and they won't do what they're supposed to do. Now,
Speaker 2: you got to think this is like the third fourth time,
Speaker 2: and they know that there's something wrong with her, but
Speaker 2: instead of being ill equipped to handle it with compassion
Speaker 2: knowing that someone is sick and needs help, therefore, they
Speaker 2: don't even go and check to see if she's in
Speaker 2: the near vicinity. Nobody really knows exactly what happened, but
Speaker 2: we do know that she was found, you know, twenty
Speaker 2: five feet down this ravine by her family members, not
Speaker 2: by the police. They didn't put anything out like on
Speaker 2: social media. And I think that's what the family was
Speaker 2: so upset about, because if it would have been the
Speaker 2: chief's daughter or someone else, the mayor's daughter or someone
Speaker 2: else who was in a higher status so to speak,
Speaker 2: they would have looked for her or him.
Speaker 4: Oh absolutely, I mean the thing is, we deny that,
Speaker 4: but if you just look at the response that law
Speaker 4: enforcement gives to different types of cases involving different types
Speaker 4: of people, we don't treat everybody equal across the board.
Speaker 4: And there's lots of reasons for that, you know, But
Speaker 4: you know, like I said, bias is one of them. Also,
Speaker 4: public pressure, you know, the media oftentimes they won't publicize
Speaker 4: these things, and it's a lot of times it's the
Speaker 4: media that drives these investigations and drives you know, people
Speaker 4: to go above and beyond. But here, you know, like
Speaker 4: I said, they just have somebody here. We are again.
Speaker 4: We took her into the hospital last time. Why is
Speaker 4: in the hospital keeping her? You know, she's out here again.
Speaker 4: And so I can't say that they fell into that trap,
Speaker 4: of course, because I don't know everything about the case,
Speaker 4: but that is a trap that we do fall into.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's unfortunate because I really think, you know,
Speaker 2: if they would have taken the time to search you know,
Speaker 2: this is just my opinion from you know, reading all
Speaker 2: the details in the research, if they would have taken
Speaker 2: the time to search for her, you know, if in
Speaker 2: fact she fell down that ravine hit her head, she
Speaker 2: could have been saved. But instead her body was there
Speaker 2: for eleven days.
Speaker 4: That's a very rough place. It sounds like, i mean,
Speaker 4: very hard to get to. They couldn't even get you know,
Speaker 4: the medical examiner down there to view the body because
Speaker 4: it is so rough and all of that. Yeah, but
Speaker 4: her purse was visible, you know, once you got off
Speaker 4: the road. You know. It's just like in the freeway
Speaker 4: fantom case, right, like the second victim wasn't recovered, you know,
Speaker 4: for days, even though they had reports of a body
Speaker 4: off the roadside, simply because the officer didn't get out
Speaker 4: of the car and go look over the guardrail.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is obviously far fetched. I just still
Speaker 3: want to ask the question. We don't think the police
Speaker 3: department was involved in any way in her death, right,
Speaker 3: I mean, we don't think they were trying to cover
Speaker 3: up anything.
Speaker 6: They would just probably got callous with the situation.
Speaker 4: You know. The only cover up was when they decided
Speaker 4: that they weren't going to acknowledge their prior actions and
Speaker 4: also acknowledge that they could have done things differently. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's the big problem, and that's really you know, the
Speaker 4: takeaway from this is that cases like this we can
Speaker 4: learn so much from. Yes, you know, one of the
Speaker 4: things that law enforcement is encouraged to do these days
Speaker 4: is old sentinel event reviews. So this is an event
Speaker 4: that nobody wanted to happen. Of course, that's one thing
Speaker 4: we can acknowledge. And it's not just a law enforcement's fault.
Speaker 4: A lot of people involved. A lot of people made
Speaker 4: decisions over a period of time that led to this.
Speaker 4: So what we need to do is not look at
Speaker 4: blaming this one officer and all that, but look at
Speaker 4: the big picture and look at all the things that
Speaker 4: contributed to this, not only the officers individual actions, but
Speaker 4: the policies and procedures that were in place, their training,
Speaker 4: what decisions or supervisors were made. In a lot of agencies,
Speaker 4: the officers would been making these decisions, they would have
Speaker 4: been made by a supervisor call to the scene who
Speaker 4: you know, like I said, set up a command post
Speaker 4: and go from there. And it doesn't sound like just
Speaker 4: you know, the officers kind of handled it and then
Speaker 4: went off by themselves. Now. I know that there was
Speaker 4: some talk about the FBI getting involved, because the FBI
Speaker 4: does investigate crimes on the reservation, but they don't investigate
Speaker 4: crimes off the reservation, and this wouldn't have fallen under
Speaker 4: their jurisdiction. I know there was a question about suicide
Speaker 4: versus accident. I had read something that the medical examiner
Speaker 4: couldn't determine the cause of death, and there's kind of
Speaker 4: a mix up there. In terminology. The cause of death
Speaker 4: is like blunt force trauma, drownding, you know that sort
Speaker 4: of thing. You know. The manner of death is like
Speaker 4: you know, a homicide, suicide, accidental or unknown. And could
Speaker 4: it be possible that she went down there and threw herself, Well,
Speaker 4: I don't think the blood, you know, the medical zamber
Speaker 4: is going to be able to say that, you know,
Speaker 4: just based on the injuries themselves. Yeah, I think a
Speaker 4: more likely scenario was that she was trying to hide
Speaker 4: and she went into an area that was going to
Speaker 4: be a great place to hide and she just fell.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess that's what's you know, so hard to determine, Like,
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know because we I wasn't there,
Speaker 2: But you know, when you think of a blunt force
Speaker 2: trauma to the head, you don't know if that could
Speaker 2: have happened before she fell, or if she actually, like
Speaker 2: you said, just actually took a misstep.
Speaker 4: Yes, some people had come forward and said that she
Speaker 4: had tried to get into a house where there was
Speaker 4: a party and she had been beaten and killed there
Speaker 4: a couple of things. I mean, she did have a
Speaker 4: very high level of alcohol in her when she died. What,
Speaker 4: we don't know what her tolerance for alcohol was. Right.
Speaker 4: The idea though, of her actually dying there and then
Speaker 4: being transported to where she was found, that's a little harder,
Speaker 4: simply because it's very hard to move bodies and getting
Speaker 4: a body in that area through the brush. Because I
Speaker 4: saw some of the pictures that they had of the
Speaker 4: area and then you know all of that, that's a
Speaker 4: lot of work. Yeah, I think if something like that happened,
Speaker 4: she might have just been beaten and then took off
Speaker 4: again and could have slipped and followed but again, that's
Speaker 4: something that can be followed up on. And if they
Speaker 4: had looked upon it as a critical missing person, possibly
Speaker 4: somebody would have come forward earlier and would have been
Speaker 4: willing to cooperate. But it's my understanding that the person
Speaker 4: who gave this information is not willing to talk about it.
Speaker 3: I have a question for you, Jim, what does determine
Speaker 3: when a person is considered critical missing just.
Speaker 4: When they're at a danger to themsel else. Let's say
Speaker 4: that somebody has dementia, they're out wandering the street, we don't.
Speaker 6: Know where they are, and they end up missing.
Speaker 4: Just a danger of them to themselves or others, but
Speaker 4: mostly to themselves. And she was a danger to herself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly if you look at everything that her parents
Speaker 2: said and everything that she did, and she'd already had interactions,
Speaker 2: like I said earlier, with the police a few times
Speaker 2: like that is exactly what it should have been. It
Speaker 2: was a call for help, but she didn't get that
Speaker 2: help that she needed that I think could have prevented
Speaker 2: this from happening.
Speaker 4: And a lot of times I know my colleagues are
Speaker 4: reluctant to go above and beyond just because they're afraid
Speaker 4: of being criticized by their own you know, colleagues. But
Speaker 4: you know you shouldn't have done that. You know, all
Speaker 4: you're doing is making work for people. She would have
Speaker 4: been fine that sort of stuff. You see, she is
Speaker 4: fine here, she is. But you know, the safest way
Speaker 4: would have been just I had treated this like a
Speaker 4: critical missing person, call out the search TAE, you know,
Speaker 4: like they were talking about. They didn't call canine because
Speaker 4: canines are for criminals and not for missing persons, but
Speaker 4: they would be for a critical missing person. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: mean that could be a tool, you know, to help
Speaker 4: track them down, you know, helicopters with with let's say,
Speaker 4: heat sensing, whatever they have there these days, I help
Speaker 4: to see through brush things along that line. You know,
Speaker 4: all of that could have been done.
Speaker 3: There's so many things that we can go off on,
Speaker 3: so many different tangents and talking about with you know,
Speaker 3: with Misty's case, it just you know, it breaks my
Speaker 3: heart because all I did, you know, the last few
Speaker 3: days was you know, watch different footage of Misty and
Speaker 3: who she was as a human being, and she was
Speaker 3: a bright, shining light. And I feel like I say
Speaker 3: that so much with all of the people that we
Speaker 3: talk about that are victims and whether or not Misty
Speaker 3: was murdered. You know, she was a victim because she
Speaker 3: had lifelong you know, childhood sexual abuse PTSD that she
Speaker 3: was open about in addition to her you know, her
Speaker 3: mental health, and of course that all affects her mental
Speaker 3: health and not getting the help she needed. But you know,
Speaker 3: I'd love to know what you think. I love how
Speaker 3: you shared the takeaways with us, but I would love
Speaker 3: to know what you think we can do moving forward
Speaker 3: to help prevent this happening to the Misties of the world. Like,
Speaker 3: is there more training that has to happen in the
Speaker 3: police department.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and there's so many different agencies out there trying
Speaker 4: different things. Yeah, it's going to take a major investment,
Speaker 4: not only in money, but also you know, other recent sources,
Speaker 4: a commitment from the agency to train their people and
Speaker 4: make sure that they follow their training and that they
Speaker 4: make use of these resources. And that's why, like I
Speaker 4: had mentioned before, an unbiased review with all the stakeholders,
Speaker 4: and the stakeholders in this case are also Missy's family.
Speaker 4: Even though there is a policy or a procedure in place,
Speaker 4: and this is the way we're taught to do things.
Speaker 4: The agency needs to understand how the public perceives that
Speaker 4: policy and procedure, and you know, do they perceive it
Speaker 4: as Okay, you did right under the policy, but was
Speaker 4: it the right thing to do? It's a big difference,
Speaker 4: and too often we fall back on no, they follow
Speaker 4: the proper policy. Well maybe they did to the letter,
Speaker 4: but not the spirit.
Speaker 3: I love that, Jim, I love that, to the letter,
Speaker 3: but not the spirit.
Speaker 2: If you could speak to the young men and women
Speaker 2: who want to be police officers, what advice would you
Speaker 2: give them going into the field, Like, what advice would
Speaker 2: help them?
Speaker 4: I think one of the things that you have to
Speaker 4: recognize is too often we fall into our own little cocoon.
Speaker 4: We try to isolate ourselves and protect ourselves, and we
Speaker 4: need to kind of expand our horizons beyond our coworkers
Speaker 4: and so that we can, you know, better off understand
Speaker 4: you know, different types of people, things along that line.
Speaker 4: But the other thing is is we also have to
Speaker 4: realize that it's so easy to pigeonhole people and pigeonhole neighborhoods.
Speaker 4: Like I just remember back when I was working a
Speaker 4: series of gang homicides in this one neighborhood. Every Body
Speaker 4: that I personally dealt with was you know, either involved
Speaker 4: in drugs, you know, selling drugs or murders and things
Speaker 4: like that, and so we all kind of got the
Speaker 4: attitude this is a neighborhood, you know, it was lost.
Speaker 4: And it was one day when we were I was
Speaker 4: out knocking on doors trying to do a canvas and
Speaker 4: this woman opened her door and invited me in and
Speaker 4: her family was in there, and they were the loveliest people.
Speaker 4: And that made me realize that these people are the norm.
Speaker 4: You know, they're not criminals, I mean, but they live
Speaker 4: in this neighborhood. They're stuck in a bad situation. They're
Speaker 4: dealing with it the best way we can, and you
Speaker 4: know we're supposed to be there to.
Speaker 3: Help them, right, that's the oath that you took, right,
Speaker 3: got it is it?
Speaker 4: It's sometimes hard to do, but you know, like I said,
Speaker 4: if you look at not only doing things just by
Speaker 4: the book. Yeah, and also you know, just don't take shortcuts. Yes,
Speaker 4: the shortcuts is what gets you in trouble.
Speaker 3: That's so true and that's in life too.
Speaker 6: Really.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So one positive thing that came from this horrific
Speaker 3: tragedy was the founding of the Misty Uppam Award for
Speaker 3: Young Native actors at the Yale Indigenous Performing Arts Program.
Speaker 3: It started in twenty twenty one and every year they
Speaker 3: recognize young Native American actors with exceptional talent. So, Jim,
Speaker 3: that's just one of the lights that happened. Can you
Speaker 3: tell us what is the light for you in this case?
Speaker 4: The fact that it's getting out there, and the fact
Speaker 4: that one of the things is is that we're not
Speaker 4: just saying blame the police. Nope, We're not just saying
Speaker 4: those officers screwed up that day. Yeah. What we're saying
Speaker 4: is there is a lot that contributed to this. There's
Speaker 4: a lot of things that if something had just been
Speaker 4: done a little bit differently at this point, at several
Speaker 4: points along the way, this need not have happened. And
Speaker 4: we nearly need to look at this from the big picture,
Speaker 4: identify what those points were and how we can prevent
Speaker 4: this sort of stuff from happening in the future. And
Speaker 4: just like other people who are going to be viewing this,
Speaker 4: like myself, I was unaware of this case and I
Speaker 4: did not know all the ins and outs of it.
Speaker 4: But here's a person who's very much self aware of
Speaker 4: her own mental illness, who is trying to get help,
Speaker 4: but help just isn't there, and as a result, this happens. So,
Speaker 4: you know, hopefully that message will get to them situations
Speaker 4: in their own life. They'll try to maybe you know,
Speaker 4: work harder to get help, but also to help improve
Speaker 4: the system so that when somebody becomes vulnerable like she
Speaker 4: did that day, she just wouldn't be ignored.
Speaker 2: And that's it right there. You just answered all of
Speaker 2: my last questions, you know, because what are the positive
Speaker 2: changes you know that could prevent these tragedies, And you
Speaker 2: just said it to not be ignored, simple as that.
Speaker 2: You know, everyone is a human being, we all do
Speaker 2: the same things. With that being said, Jim again, you know,
Speaker 2: thank you so much for taking time. I'm you be
Speaker 2: with us here on facing evil. We so respect your intelligence,
Speaker 2: you know your years of you know, work in the
Speaker 2: police departments. Like we really thank you for being on
Speaker 2: the show. Mahalo nui looa.
Speaker 3: Yes, Jim, and thank you for your compassion. You're a
Speaker 3: very compassionate soul and we truly.
Speaker 6: Appreciate you well.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Today's message of hope and healing goes out to Misty Uppham.
Speaker 6: Missy Starr was on the rise.
Speaker 3: In fact, she once even told a reporter quote acting
Speaker 3: saved my life.
Speaker 2: But other circumstances ultimately conspired to be too much. Her
Speaker 2: mental illness, which was intensified by things like recurrent poverty, violence,
Speaker 2: and sexual trauma, as well as other realities brought on
Speaker 2: by life as an Indigenous woman, just ultimately took her life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and months before she died, Misty founded the Indigo
Speaker 3: Children's Group, which she hoped would provide Native children living
Speaker 3: on reservations with artistic role models and opportunities.
Speaker 2: And in twenty twenty one, the Yale Indigenous Performing Arts
Speaker 2: Program created the Misty Uppham Award for Young Native Actors,
Speaker 2: which offers a cash prize of five hundred dollars and
Speaker 2: performance opportunities, as well as a message from Miss.
Speaker 6: Meryl Streep that's amazing.
Speaker 3: Fern Renville, who leads the theater group that gave Misty
Speaker 3: her start read Eagle Soaring, acknowledges the mark that Misty left,
Speaker 3: saying her legacy is huge for Native young people interested
Speaker 3: in being in film. It's a door that she opened.
Speaker 3: It seems possible to them. Misty did it, we can
Speaker 3: do it.
Speaker 2: We'd like to leave you with this spe buying quote
Speaker 2: from Misty. Allow yourself the freedom to dream. Dreams are
Speaker 2: what make your entire life worth living. Without dreams, we
Speaker 2: are nothing. Onward and upward emua Ema.
Speaker 6: Well that's our show for today.
Speaker 3: We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion
Speaker 3: and if there's a case you'd like for.
Speaker 2: Us to cover, find us on social media or email
Speaker 2: us at facingebl.
Speaker 6: Pod at tenderfoot dot tv.
Speaker 3: And one small request if you haven't already, please find
Speaker 3: us on iTunes and give us a good rating and
Speaker 3: a good review. If you like what we do, your
Speaker 3: support is always cherished.
Speaker 2: Until next time, Aloha.
Speaker 1: Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV.
Speaker 1: The show is hosted by Russia Paccuerero and Avet Gentile.
Speaker 1: Matt Frederick and Alex Williams our executive producers on behalf
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk, Donald
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Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Carolyn Talmadge,
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