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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the white Tail Woods. Present it by First Light, creating

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Speaker 1: proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind.

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Speaker 1: First Light, Go farther, stay longer, and now your host

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt Podcast. I'm your guest host,

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Speaker 2: Tony Peterson, and today I'm speaking to Clint Campbell about

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Speaker 2: scouting white tails at home and on the road. Welcome

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Speaker 2: to the Wire to Hunt podcast, which is brought to

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Speaker 2: you by a First Light. You've heard me say this before,

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Speaker 2: and I'll say it again. If you don't have some

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Speaker 2: of the Trace clothing, the Trace pants, or maybe the

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Speaker 2: quarter zip, and you want to go get some work

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Speaker 2: done in the white Tail woods, you might want to

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Speaker 2: check it out. Super breathable, super durable. It is just

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Speaker 2: the right stuff for early seas and hunting and for

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Speaker 2: summer scouting and getting your work done. So check it out.

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Speaker 2: You've got it, You've guessed it. Mark's still off, but

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Speaker 2: he's not really doing anything cool this time. He just

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Speaker 2: sent me a text and he said, listen, Tony, I

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Speaker 2: have to level with you. I just need to go

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Speaker 2: fly fishing. I've only been on the water ninety seven

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Speaker 2: days this summer, and I'm just itching to get out

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Speaker 2: and catch a few fish. Man, you kind of gotta

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Speaker 2: feel sorry for the guy, don't you. I mean, that's

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Speaker 2: barely any playtime. So I hope he catches some fish

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Speaker 2: and he finds a good place to show off his

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Speaker 2: catch on social media if he's so inclined. And so,

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Speaker 2: while he's off tossing dryflies to brownies and cuts, I'm

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Speaker 2: back here keeping the lights on. But it's not all

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Speaker 2: bad because I get to talk to killer whitetail hunters

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Speaker 2: like Clint Campbell, who happens to be my guest today.

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Speaker 2: Clint hosts The Truth from the Stand podcast. He plays

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Speaker 2: a mean guitar, he's an expert at wrapping people into

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Speaker 2: tiny little bows through his jiu jitsu skills, and he

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Speaker 2: scouts deer harder than almost anyone you've ever met. That's

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Speaker 2: what we get into today, and he breaks down his

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Speaker 2: strategy for mastering public land white tails out east and

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Speaker 2: how he approaches traveling hunts when he draws a tag

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Speaker 2: somewhere far from his native Pennsylvania. Clint is honestly a

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Speaker 2: wealth of whitetail knowledge, and I think you're gonna love

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Speaker 2: hearing what he has to say. So Clint, as usual,

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Speaker 2: we started talking as soon as we saw each other here,

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Speaker 2: and we've gone through We solved most of the world's

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Speaker 2: problems before we even started this podcast. But we should

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Speaker 2: probably get into this and talk a little bit about scouting.

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Speaker 3: Huh yeah, talk a little scouting, man. I mean, we've

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Speaker 3: already gone to Mars, we went to Saturn, we won

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Speaker 3: a UFC belt, a title, you know, Like, I mean,

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Speaker 3: why not solve deer hunting problems at the same time.

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Speaker 2: We definitely should, And you know, I want to have

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Speaker 2: you on for a lot of reasons. I always love

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Speaker 2: talking to you. You've got the truth from the stand podcast.

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Speaker 2: You're one of those people who's out there. You're living

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Speaker 2: it like you're always you know, you're always sending me

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Speaker 2: pictures and we're always going back and forth. And we

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Speaker 2: just started talking a little bit off here that you

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Speaker 2: brought up something I want to get into. You know,

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Speaker 2: you mentioned how important winter scouting is to you, and

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Speaker 2: I'm the same way. You know, like, I feel real

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Speaker 2: cheated this year because we had a nasty winner and

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Speaker 2: you guys had a pretty bad winter, and you had

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Speaker 2: some other stuff going on, So you didn't get to

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Speaker 2: take advantage of that window the way that you you

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Speaker 2: usually do to feel good about your season. And so

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Speaker 2: you're kind of scrambling now and you have to summer scout,

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Speaker 2: you know at home there in Pennsylvania, like you usually

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Speaker 2: don't have to.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I I'll be honest and I'll be one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent transparent. It's the summer is my least favorite time

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Speaker 3: to spend time in the woods. You know, it's hot,

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Speaker 3: it's buggy, I'm getting cobwebs all over my face. I

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Speaker 3: can't see the ground the way I want to see

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Speaker 3: the ground. The rubs now have kind of faded to

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Speaker 3: where it's a lot harder to tell was that last

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Speaker 3: year's rub? Was that two years ago? So the sign

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Speaker 3: obviously just isn't there. And the nice thing about winter

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Speaker 3: scouting is when you have all the foliage off the trees,

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Speaker 3: it's like I don't have to walk that extra seventy

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Speaker 3: five yards or whatever the case is to go check

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Speaker 3: out this thing over here. If something catches my eye,

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Speaker 3: like a rub on a tree, it's like I can

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Speaker 3: see the discoloration through the open timber at that point right.

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Speaker 3: A lot of times I can throw some glass on

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Speaker 3: it and I can tell, okay, is that something I'm

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Speaker 3: walking over there for or my head to you know,

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Speaker 3: continue in the direction that I was I was going

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Speaker 3: anyway right now, it's a little different where it's you know,

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Speaker 3: it's a lot of map reading and kind of finding

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Speaker 3: those spots and then getting to them, and like you know,

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Speaker 3: if it's thick covered, you maybe only see ten, fifteen,

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Speaker 3: twenty yards and so now you're really having to dissect things.

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Speaker 3: It slows it down. You don't cover nearly as much ground.

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Speaker 3: But you know, with that, you know, you just kind

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Speaker 3: of deal with the cards, the cards that you have.

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Speaker 3: And we were talking a little bit yesterday. We were

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Speaker 3: texting a little bit before we uh, you know, we

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Speaker 3: knew we were going to be chatting today, and I

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Speaker 3: think I mentioned to you adaptability is sometimes our best ability,

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Speaker 3: right with your honey, And I kind of feel like

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Speaker 3: that's where I'm at now, you know, I talked to

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Speaker 3: I did a who did I do that podcast with?

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Speaker 3: It might have been it's actually been a couple of

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Speaker 3: different guys like hes Cisco is one guy, and a

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Speaker 3: Mike Perry from Pennsylvania was another guy. And we talked

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Speaker 3: a little bit about the reliance on winters scouting and

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Speaker 3: like we might rely on it a little bit too much, right,

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Speaker 3: because it tells you the story of last year, and

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Speaker 3: without being there whenever whatever sign was laid down, you

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Speaker 3: don't really know particularly what week that happened. Right. It's

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Speaker 3: like you might be able to tell just based on

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Speaker 3: how close it is to like a food source or

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Speaker 3: like a betting area, or like a specific terrain feature

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Speaker 3: or something like that, that that might be like rut signed,

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Speaker 3: or that might be like early season sign or whatever

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Speaker 3: the case is. But you really don't one hundred percent know.

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Speaker 3: And so this year it might be a blessing in

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Speaker 3: disguise where it's like I'm going to get out hanging

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Speaker 3: my cameras here in the next couple of weeks, kind

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Speaker 3: of finish hanging those and doing a little bit of scouting,

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Speaker 3: a little bit more exploring on the new piece I've

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Speaker 3: been I've been looking at the buy and large this

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Speaker 3: year is probably going to be a lot of you know,

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Speaker 3: boots on the ground come September October and starting to

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Speaker 3: figure things out. And so you know, I'll start to

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Speaker 3: lay the groundwork for that here during the summer, but

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Speaker 3: it will be a lot of doubling back in the

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Speaker 3: uh in the fall to kind of check my premonitions

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Speaker 3: from the from the summer, if you will.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you or your situation, do you do you

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Speaker 2: hunt any private land?

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Speaker 3: I do not. Well, I shouldn't say I don't on

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Speaker 3: an occasion. I mean, my family does own in like

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Speaker 3: Centralish western side of PA roughly, you know, we have

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Speaker 3: a couple of hundred acres between a couple of different parcels.

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Speaker 3: But I haven't been back there in probably four or

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Speaker 3: five years, probably other than like a wayward turkey hunt

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Speaker 3: one day with my dad like three years ago. That was.

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Speaker 3: That was about it. But yeah, for you know, buy

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Speaker 3: and large, it's all all the public either that's around me,

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Speaker 3: a couple hours north of me or out of state.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So you're where I want to go with this

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Speaker 2: is your style is tied so closely to the kind

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Speaker 2: of terrain you're hunting. Yeah, so you you know, you're

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Speaker 2: hunting the mountains of Pennsylvania. You don't have a situation

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Speaker 2: where you're gonna grab the spotter and go sit on

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Speaker 2: the edge of a beanfield in you know, late July,

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Speaker 2: early August, whatever, so like the importance for you of

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Speaker 2: getting out there winter scouting would be different from some

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Speaker 2: dudes saying like maybe Ohio or somewhere like that. And

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Speaker 2: I think that there's an important lesson there because it's

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Speaker 2: so easy for us to hear like, oh well, I

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Speaker 2: just run trail cameras a scout, or I just do this,

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Speaker 2: or Zach Fharrenbau does this, or whoever does this, But

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Speaker 2: it's so tied to your personal situation. Yeah, And so

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Speaker 2: for for you, you know, that winter scouting in that

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Speaker 2: big Wood scenario, it's like such an advantage. And then

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Speaker 2: if you lose that, you're like, Okay, now I'm scrambling

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Speaker 2: and I got to get a ton of cameras out

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Speaker 2: and you and you run a ton of cameras.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I mean I'll have out you know, I

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Speaker 3: probably own I want to say, maybe thirty roughly is

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Speaker 3: probably what I have in my arsenal, you know, probably

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Speaker 3: like nine ish cell cameras and then the rest of

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Speaker 3: all regular SD card cameras put on that North people

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Speaker 3: on the Big Woods piece. It's like I'll pull you know,

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Speaker 3: cameras with my buddy Aaron Heppler and my other buddy Tom,

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Speaker 3: you know, we'll all kind of pull our cameras together

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Speaker 3: and like commit exit number of cameras to like that spot.

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Speaker 3: And so in that piece alone, we'll probably have between

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Speaker 3: the three of us like thirty plus cameras on there.

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Speaker 3: And we've met some other friends. We get some other

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Speaker 3: friends up there, and we all share intel. I mean,

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Speaker 3: the place is so big. That's the one thing you

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Speaker 3: know when you're hunting smaller pieces. So like for me

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Speaker 3: locally in PA, I don't share really intel with anybody

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Speaker 3: locally because it's just like there's not a lot like

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Speaker 3: the public pieces just aren't real big, and there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of pressure. And I certainly don't put any pictures

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Speaker 3: online of deer that I'm getting on camera or anything

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Speaker 3: like that. If anyone ever sees me share a picture,

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Speaker 3: you can almost guarantee it wasn't from PA, and certainly

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Speaker 3: wasn't from you know, my local area. You know, me

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Speaker 3: and a couple different guys, like we'll all share intel

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Speaker 3: with each other because the place is so big, we're

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Speaker 3: not going to step on each other, you know. And

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Speaker 3: so I have pictures of deer, and you know Tom

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Speaker 3: has pictures of deer. I'll send them my pictures and

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Speaker 3: be like, hey, I saw this deer. He was on

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Speaker 3: camera over here, and then we can start to get

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Speaker 3: an idea of like how they're moving, because otherwise it

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Speaker 3: just takes I say, it always takes about three years

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Speaker 3: to figure a spot out roughly, and then you can

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Speaker 3: start to reasonably consider that you should start to have

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Speaker 3: the type of encounters that you want to have. May

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Speaker 3: not kill that third year, but you should at least

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Speaker 3: be in the game before that. Though. If you don't

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Speaker 3: have any help, you're you're really throwing a dart at

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Speaker 3: a dartboard, you know, in a lot of ways. And

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Speaker 3: so we try to do the best we can just

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Speaker 3: kind of help help each other out and allows us

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Speaker 3: kind of like lay a game plan. You start to

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Speaker 3: understand how deer is starting to use that terrain. You know,

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Speaker 3: this place has just wildly open timber, and then all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden you get like really kind of almost

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Speaker 3: like microhabitats where all the sign kind of explodes, where

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Speaker 3: where it gets really thick and they've got some food

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Speaker 3: and they've got some cover, but there might be two

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Speaker 3: miles between that and the last place you saw signed

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Speaker 3: And so to figure all that out on your own,

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Speaker 3: you know, is a task.

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Speaker 2: So run me through a scenario here, because when when

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Speaker 2: I think of like big woods Tapa hunting, I mean,

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Speaker 2: my big wood sap of hunting is a little bit

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Speaker 2: different because I can't run cameras on a lot of

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Speaker 2: the places that I hunt, like in northern Wisconsin, some

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Speaker 2: of the rules and stuff, and so for me, it's

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Speaker 2: so tied to winter scouting looking for the sign, and

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Speaker 2: then summer scouting just looking for the sign because there's

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Speaker 2: not you know, I don't have the glassing situation, but

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Speaker 2: you rely so heavily on those trail cameras to do

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Speaker 2: some heavy lifting for you in the summer. So let's

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Speaker 2: say you go out and you're like, you don't you

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Speaker 2: don't have this current winter scouting situation where you're like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I know I'm going to go drop a camera here, here,

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Speaker 2: and here because of what I saw you're going in. Now,

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Speaker 2: let's say you're bringing in a half a dozen cameras

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Speaker 2: or whatever. What are you hanging them on? Are you

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Speaker 2: looking at like train traps? What are you doing here?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's that's a very good question because that's

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Speaker 3: exactly where I'm at, Like, because where I had run

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Speaker 3: cameras in the past. So one thing I will do

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Speaker 3: is I'll roll on like historical data, all the cameras

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Speaker 3: I typically run and leave out for a year, and

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Speaker 3: then I go back and I gather them, you know,

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Speaker 3: and I might check them in the fall, but buying

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Speaker 3: largely stay out for the year, and I start to

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Speaker 3: just get a sense of, like, one, how often am

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Speaker 3: I seeing new deer in the fall? And how often

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Speaker 3: am I finding homebodies? And what I've kind of found,

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Speaker 3: at least on this big piece, is that I get

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Speaker 3: a lot more homebodies than I do on smaller parcels

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Speaker 3: for whatever, for whatever reason. And so if I have

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Speaker 3: five good bucks, you know, on a camera, say in

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Speaker 3: this big woods piece, chances are three of them will

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Speaker 3: probably be around it in the general area whenever fall

247
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Speaker 3: rolls around where for locally, for me, if I have

248
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Speaker 3: five good bucks on camera in the summer in an area,

249
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Speaker 3: I'll be lucky if one sticks around, you know what

250
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Speaker 3: I mean, For whatever reason. It's just something that I've noticed.

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Speaker 3: So most of the place that I've kind of focused

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Speaker 3: on the past two years is really challenging spot to hunt.

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Speaker 3: There's another area that I kind of I hung a

254
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Speaker 3: couple of cameras let them run for like the past

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Speaker 3: two years, hadn't hunted at once because it seemed like

256
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Speaker 3: it was the easiest access. I always had great deer

257
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Speaker 3: on camera, but in the back of my mind is

258
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Speaker 3: always like, man, this place is gonna getound because it's

259
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Speaker 3: the easiest access, seems like the most logical place for

260
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Speaker 3: someone to jump in if they wanted to do a

261
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Speaker 3: quick hunt. But in the course of two years, I

262
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Speaker 3: think I might have had three people on camera, and

263
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Speaker 3: all of them were during gun season, and so I'm like,

264
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Speaker 3: all right, so archery season, we're kind of in place,

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Speaker 3: so I need to kind of expand on that piece.

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Speaker 3: And so what I'm really kind of looking for, especially

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Speaker 3: in this in this particular area, is there's not a

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Speaker 3: lot of undulation and terrain in this particular area because

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Speaker 3: you're already kind of on top of of on top

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Speaker 3: of the mountain, so to speak. And so really what

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Speaker 3: I'm looking for is just very slight variations and change

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Speaker 3: in elevations. So it might only be like a ten

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Speaker 3: foot rise or something like that that's just gonna kind

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Speaker 3: of funnel deer around an area. Because I found one

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Speaker 3: spot like that, and that's where I found a lot

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Speaker 3: of deer traffic. The other part is is find you know,

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Speaker 3: this is again using a little bit of intel from

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Speaker 3: the one or two cameras I did have in that

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Speaker 3: area the past two years, is that most of the

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Speaker 3: bucks that I was seeing they actually had like black

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Speaker 3: up to like mid shin, if you will. And there's

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Speaker 3: a handful of like swamp areas that are around there.

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Speaker 3: And so whenever I was watching these pictures of these

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Speaker 3: bucks come through, you know, last fall, it's funny because

285
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Speaker 3: I was I wasn't even looking at their head at first.

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Speaker 3: I was looking at their feet to see if they

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Speaker 3: had mud on their feet, you know. And so one

288
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Speaker 3: I started seeing like the younger deer that would come through,

289
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Speaker 3: I didn't see that as consistently. All the bigger deer

290
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Speaker 3: that I had come through, almost all of them had

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Speaker 3: dirty legs. And so it's like I started then looking around, going, Okay,

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Speaker 3: where like the swampy kind of areas and not it's

293
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Speaker 3: so thick that you can't get through, but like, where

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Speaker 3: are the spots where I look kind of open just

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Speaker 3: from you know, looking looking on a map, you know, ea, scouting,

296
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Speaker 3: And then from there. What I started looking for were

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Speaker 3: just kind of like little land bridges between swampy areas

298
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Speaker 3: to kind of go investigate, you know. And then I

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Speaker 3: started thinking, you know, so that was the first thing.

300
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Speaker 3: What are the land bridges, and so I'll investigate those.

301
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Speaker 3: And then the other part was was just looking at

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Speaker 3: my prevailing wind and knowing that I get a south

303
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Speaker 3: you know, south southwest west kind of predominant prevailing wind

304
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Speaker 3: during that time of year, then looking at the opposite

305
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Speaker 3: side of those swamps and those areas, going like, all right,

306
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Speaker 3: are there any terrain features there are going to kind

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Speaker 3: of funnel them down toward the edge of that swamp

308
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Speaker 3: or is it flat? They can kind of meander out

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Speaker 3: and I just need to kind of go investigate that stuff.

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Speaker 3: But I'll start on that side of the swamp knowing

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Speaker 3: that that's going to be my predominant wind, and I'll

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Speaker 3: be my most likely tree locations that I would want

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Speaker 3: to find to play to be able to play the wind.

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Speaker 2: When you're running cameras, can you see those bucks have

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Speaker 2: muddy muddy feed on there too or not?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how that's how I pull That's.

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Speaker 2: How you see it's not in Yeah, interesting I think

318
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Speaker 2: it was. I think it was Steve Bartello that wrote

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Speaker 2: an article one time years ago, I might even edit

320
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Speaker 2: it when I was at Peterson's bow hunting, But he

321
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Speaker 2: said big bucks have wet feet, and I've thought about

322
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Speaker 2: that because it's so freaking true. I want to back

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Speaker 2: up a second, because you said something about, you know,

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Speaker 2: running cameras on bigger properties and homebodies versus running cameras

325
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Speaker 2: on smaller properties and not necessarily any is easy to

326
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Speaker 2: find a homebody there. Don't you think that's just tied

327
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Speaker 2: to the amount of a deer's like home range that

328
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Speaker 2: you have to work with.

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Speaker 3: I think it's that, And I think and this is

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Speaker 3: just look, I don't claim to be smart enough to

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Speaker 3: know this for a fact. It's just these are just

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Speaker 3: kind of my hypothesis or my hypotheses. But if I

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Speaker 3: were to venture a guest, I think it's one, Yes,

334
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Speaker 3: they have so much more room and they have so

335
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Speaker 3: much more kind of like available to them that why

336
00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,000
Speaker 3: would you completely change home ranges. There's likely multiple dough

337
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,400
Speaker 3: families within that area already that they are that they're

338
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,440
Speaker 3: using for food and cover, just kind of in general, right,

339
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Speaker 3: And then I think the the second part of it

340
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Speaker 3: is is that food is so sparse there that I

341
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Speaker 3: think that they just kind of move around like with

342
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Speaker 3: as the food changes and as opposed to like going

343
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Speaker 3: like three properties over or whatever, they're just staying in

344
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,960
Speaker 3: that general area because there's a patch of oaks here

345
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Speaker 3: and then in the summer there's a bunch of wild

346
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Speaker 3: blueberries and raspberries, because I see that a lot, especially

347
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Speaker 3: in around those swampy areas where it's like those beds,

348
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,520
Speaker 3: just like there're those deer just bed in there and

349
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Speaker 3: live in that area until the bears run through, run

350
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Speaker 3: them mouth and then they'll come back essentially, and then

351
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Speaker 3: I think the other part is too, is that they

352
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Speaker 3: make such even when they are doing a little bit

353
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Speaker 3: of traveling, they make such long cycles that if you're

354
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Speaker 3: if you're impatient, you'll think they have left. But if

355
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Speaker 3: you really think about it and you see them kind

356
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Speaker 3: of come back, it's like instead of it being like

357
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,680
Speaker 3: a three day window where you catch them, it might

358
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Speaker 3: be a five, seven eight day window, you know. And

359
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,360
Speaker 3: so that's the other thing, like when you're on big pieces,

360
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,240
Speaker 3: I just had to kind of learn painfully over time,

361
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:01,720
Speaker 3: is that just because they had n't been around for

362
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,440
Speaker 3: eight days, maybe even ten days, depending, you know, I

363
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,600
Speaker 3: just might be in the wrong little you know, five

364
00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,720
Speaker 3: hundred acre chunk. They might be playing this one hundred

365
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:12,920
Speaker 3: acre piece over here just to my east or whatever.

366
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,040
Speaker 3: They've not left the area, They're just not in this

367
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,920
Speaker 3: little not in this particular chunk, yep, you know. And

368
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,200
Speaker 3: so and that's what I've seen. And when I say homebody,

369
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Speaker 3: it's not that I've caught that deer on camera the

370
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Speaker 3: same camera consistently. I might have during the summer and

371
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Speaker 3: then maybe a couple times during the fall, but I

372
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,280
Speaker 3: had a camera that was a quarter of a mile away,

373
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Speaker 3: you know, kind of like a cast the net. And

374
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,480
Speaker 3: it's like I caught him on two other ones over here,

375
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,560
Speaker 3: all fall along, plus the one I had him on

376
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,960
Speaker 3: originally in the summer, like three times. Right, So I'm

377
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,440
Speaker 3: going he's maybe not bedded in the same exact spot

378
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,440
Speaker 3: because you know, foliage has come down, betting situations change,

379
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,400
Speaker 3: but he's still in, he's still at home. He hasn't

380
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,200
Speaker 3: completely left, you know. And so that's kind of what

381
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,080
Speaker 3: I've seen, at least on that on that big woods piece.

382
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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a I think there's a really valuable lesson

383
00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,600
Speaker 2: in that where when you talk about using tra cameras

384
00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:02,880
Speaker 2: to scout and I had to figure this out the

385
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,199
Speaker 2: hard way when I started hunting a lot of small properties,

386
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:11,320
Speaker 2: like twenty to forty acre type of chunks. The randomness

387
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,520
Speaker 2: to deer movement feels so real, especially when you're trying

388
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,520
Speaker 2: to find a decent buck. You're like, man, he was

389
00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,520
Speaker 2: here September twenty seventh, and he wasn't back until October sixteenth.

390
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,040
Speaker 2: And one time he was here in the day, one

391
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,120
Speaker 2: time he was here at night. It's like, yeah, because

392
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,920
Speaker 2: you might be hunting five percent of his home range

393
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,360
Speaker 2: or three You know, if you get into a big

394
00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,840
Speaker 2: wood scenario where you talk about with limited food and

395
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,119
Speaker 2: lots of cover, you might have a home range it's

396
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,679
Speaker 2: nine hundred acres and now you're hunting twenty acres of

397
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,120
Speaker 2: it or forty acres of it. And I think it's

398
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,359
Speaker 2: hard for us to wrap our heads around that. Sometimes

399
00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,800
Speaker 2: you go, well, he's just totally nocturnal or he's not moving.

400
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,720
Speaker 2: It's like, man, you're just playing with a little tiny piece.

401
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:50,600
Speaker 2: They'd be like if you were looking for somebody in

402
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,800
Speaker 2: the house and you could only stay in like one

403
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,119
Speaker 2: closet and you're like they're not home, and you're like

404
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,760
Speaker 2: spin around in the closet and you're like, well, you

405
00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:59,880
Speaker 2: can't look in the living room, you can't go downstairs.

406
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,240
Speaker 2: And I think the big lesson there is to be

407
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,679
Speaker 2: really careful about trail camera usage as far as like

408
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 2: what you deduce out of that. You know, like you said,

409
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 2: if you're working some big cover, you know, you've got

410
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,200
Speaker 2: a thousand acres or five thousand acres of big woods

411
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,600
Speaker 2: to work and you get a picture of him here,

412
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,600
Speaker 2: and then a month later a picture of him here,

413
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 2: and you can draw a line between him and you go, okay,

414
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,439
Speaker 2: we're within a third of a mile, quarter of a

415
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,280
Speaker 2: mile whatever, Like now you're starting to pin down what

416
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,000
Speaker 2: could be considered like some level of core area. Like

417
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,840
Speaker 2: now you have something to work with. It's vastly different

418
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:34,800
Speaker 2: than being on thirty acres and going I got two

419
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,160
Speaker 2: pictures of him, I guess I'm going to sit here,

420
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,040
Speaker 2: like you got to, like you said, you got to

421
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,199
Speaker 2: work with what you're like the hand you're dealt, And

422
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:41,920
Speaker 2: it's different.

423
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that and that two pictures on a piece

424
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,280
Speaker 3: the size of this big woods piece, Like that's like

425
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,639
Speaker 3: for me, that's money in the bank, especially if I

426
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,560
Speaker 3: get them at two different times of the year. You know,

427
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,119
Speaker 3: that's all I really need at that point. It's like

428
00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,520
Speaker 3: if I get him in the summer and know he's around, right,

429
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,520
Speaker 3: and then I get him again October fifteenth, that's all

430
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 3: I need. I don't need any more pictures of him.

431
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,080
Speaker 3: I know he's gonna be here at the at you know,

432
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:09,160
Speaker 3: all fall. He might transition, you know, around winter, take

433
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,360
Speaker 3: an excursion during rutt. Even though it's just interesting because

434
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,560
Speaker 3: I was re listening back to like some stuff I

435
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 3: did with doctor Bronson Strickland from a MSU Dear lab

436
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,000
Speaker 3: and the idea, and this changed, This kind of changed

437
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,879
Speaker 3: how I looked at my trail camera data too, and

438
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:29,120
Speaker 3: just knowing that, you know, we think that the deer

439
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,359
Speaker 3: more predictable and patternable, you know, in October early earlier

440
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 3: in the year, for example, right like they're still on

441
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,280
Speaker 3: like maybe a pseudo bed to food ish pattern. They've

442
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 3: not completely got all ramped up and started thinking about chasing,

443
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 3: chasing does and stuff like that. And then we think

444
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,679
Speaker 3: when RUTT happens that all of a sudden, like they

445
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,800
Speaker 3: go berserk and they like they're running all over the place,

446
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 3: and they're betting in like various places, you know, every

447
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,919
Speaker 3: different day, every day there's a different bed, right, But

448
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 3: the data actually suggests the opposite. They're way more sporadic

449
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,200
Speaker 3: and unpredictable in October in their betting patterns, and they're

450
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:06,680
Speaker 3: way more predictable when the rut happens. Right. Well, he doesn't.

451
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 3: They don't have data on this, but we actually he

452
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,440
Speaker 3: and I talked about it, and I was like, Doe families, right,

453
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,640
Speaker 3: He's like, don't have data, but I would put any

454
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 3: amount of money that mattered to me that, Yeah, they're consistent.

455
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 3: Betting is tied to like dough families that they're hanging around, right,

456
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:23,560
Speaker 3: And I would go and I would say, maybe that

457
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 3: doesn't go for younger bucks, but I think older bucks,

458
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 3: you know, get smart and get hip to the game. Right.

459
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 3: And So because I've talked to G's this is something

460
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:35,960
Speaker 3: like I saw this play out this year too, and

461
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 3: this this thing, this taught me two different lessons that

462
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,720
Speaker 3: I kind of knew academically but really kind of you know,

463
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 3: made them concrete for me. You know, Johnny Eberheart a

464
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,679
Speaker 3: lot would talk about hunting over scrapes, you know, and

465
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:50,439
Speaker 3: especially when you're scouting trying to find a script. It's

466
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 3: hard to during the summer sometimes, but if you can

467
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 3: find a good community scrape, you know, a dominant deer

468
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 3: in the area, buck in the area will likely at

469
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,200
Speaker 3: some point probably come bed not far from that scrap

470
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 3: and wait for doze to come through and hit that scrape,

471
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,400
Speaker 3: and he's gonna scent check them as they're coming through,

472
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 3: as opposed to chasing them. Right. So it's the old

473
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 3: adage of like, you know, in my twenties or thirties,

474
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 3: we were out running like crazy men, right, crazy people.

475
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 3: And now I'm forty five and I'm like, nah, man,

476
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:17,360
Speaker 3: I said, I'm just happy to sit home and hang out,

477
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. It's a similar type of thing.

478
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,359
Speaker 3: It's like why work harder when you can work work smarter?

479
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 3: And so last year I was hunting one of my

480
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 3: favorite kind of community scrape areas and the target deer

481
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,399
Speaker 3: I wanted to kill locally walks in beds down about

482
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 3: forty yards from the scrape, about thirty five is yards

483
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 3: from me, and was down windo that scrape and just

484
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 3: was sitting there sent checking that scrape for two hours

485
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,400
Speaker 3: bed and sleeping, nodding off, waking up, readjusting, et cetera,

486
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,919
Speaker 3: et cetera. So that was the one kind of lesson

487
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,120
Speaker 3: academic lesson I learned in real time was that one, yes,

488
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 3: those older deer will kind of bed down wind to that,

489
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,360
Speaker 3: and they won't even come to the scrape, right, which

490
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 3: gives credence to hunting the places in between those kind

491
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 3: of destination spots.

492
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 2: And then the.

493
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 3: Second one was I got him on camera, says, ties

494
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 3: back to our summer thing. I got him on camera

495
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,880
Speaker 3: the last time was like September fifteenth, Right, Never again

496
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 3: did I get that deer on camera the rest of

497
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 3: the season. But he was comfortable enough to bed forty

498
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 3: yards from that scrape and walked in and knew what

499
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 3: he was doing.

500
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 2: Yep.

501
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,920
Speaker 3: So that time I got him on camera was that

502
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 3: the only time he was ever there until the time

503
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 3: that he showed up that bed. If I were a

504
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,880
Speaker 3: betting man, I would say not yeah, right, no way,

505
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 3: He's just he's consistently going to be in that general

506
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 3: area until the dough that needs to get bread in

507
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 3: that area is bred, right, And so that deer's consistently there.

508
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:35,479
Speaker 3: So it just kind of goes back to what I

509
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 3: was saying, where it's like, I don't need more than

510
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,119
Speaker 3: two pictures. I just need the two pictures to be

511
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 3: at the right time to know that that deer's home

512
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 3: range is in that area, and that may not be

513
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 3: true for everybody. That's just kind of how I look

514
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 3: at it, And it's not the gospel, but it's how

515
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:50,919
Speaker 3: I kind of approach it.

516
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 2: Well. That lesson there is one probably for a different podcast.

517
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 2: We could do an entire thing on it, but I

518
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 2: think that we look at the rut so wrong most

519
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 2: of the time. Like you said, you know, Eberhart's talking

520
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 2: about how they look a look at the strategy there.

521
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 2: If you know that there's do is going to come

522
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 2: through there, there's no reason to go wear yourself out

523
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 2: looking for them when they'll come to you. You know.

524
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 2: It's like I've written about this a whole bunch, but

525
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,919
Speaker 2: I see bass like I bass fish a lot, and

526
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 2: I see them adopt two strategies to hunt. One of

527
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 2: them is they ambush and they sit in a stump

528
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: like next to a stomp or a you know, a dock,

529
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 2: and they use the shadows to their advantage and they

530
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,239
Speaker 2: wait for something to crawl into their world and they

531
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 2: eat it or you know, you see this with a

532
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 2: lot of younger ones that form a little wolf pack

533
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 2: and they go looking and they go find that school

534
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 2: of minnos to chase or find a place where the

535
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 2: crayfish are. And it's like two different strategies. But the

536
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 2: old ones, like the big ones, you don't see them

537
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 2: out like schooling up burning a bunch of energy to

538
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 2: do what they could do without burning a bunch of energy.

539
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 2: And I mean, I I I'm dumb. I'm a slow learner.

540
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 2: So every year I got and I hunt the rut

541
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 2: and five thousand times in the in a couple of weeks.

542
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 2: During the run, I'm like, why aren't there deer running

543
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 2: all over the place? And you know, this happened to

544
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 2: me last year when I was hunting southwestern Wisconsin where

545
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 2: I'm like, I know, I'm around a ton of deer.

546
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 2: This area has a ton of deer, and I'm like

547
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 2: blanking or you know, seeing very little. And it's like,

548
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 2: you know, if you if you look at this on paper,

549
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 2: there's no reason for a buck to have to work

550
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: that hard there, So you'd think, like, you know, some

551
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 2: kind of chase is going to end up in your

552
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 2: lap or some kind of cruiser. But it's just not

553
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 2: necessarily the case, especially if they're not ways spread out

554
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 2: and there's not a lot of competition. Why why would

555
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 2: they And you know, and then you say, like, well,

556
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 2: some of the scrappers are going to come through, and

557
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 2: like that's what happens. Like you sit all day and

558
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,679
Speaker 2: you see like a four ky or you know, like

559
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 2: you're in like a primo spot and that little basket

560
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 2: rack six comes through. But it's not the chase best

561
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 2: that we always assume it's going to be, because that's

562
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 2: just not how nature works most of the time.

563
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was a couple of things, like speaking going

564
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 3: back to like summer scouts, Like the one thing that

565
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 3: I started doing regardless of whether it's winter or summer,

566
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 3: is if if I find a really really good kind

567
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 3: of community scrape area, it always gets a camera. Even

568
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 3: if I see like something in the summer that looks

569
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 3: to me like okay, I can still see that there's

570
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 3: some liking branches broken, you know that this is obviously

571
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 3: something that they're using it as a scrape. They're hitting

572
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 3: a licking branch, and especially if there's a couple of

573
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 3: rubs that are around that that to me kind of

574
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 3: like okay, this is worth a camera, and I'll just

575
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,679
Speaker 3: see what happens, you know, and I'll qualify scrapes that

576
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 3: way where I'm just gonna hang it. I'm gonna let

577
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 3: it run for the whole year, and then if I

578
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 3: see deer hitting it during the summer, then I know,

579
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 3: like okay, yatzie, this is like a communication hub and

580
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 3: then we just have to figure out how good it

581
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 3: is or if it turns on at a certain time.

582
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 3: The other thing I started doing, and I learned this

583
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 3: from actually hunting with my buddy Chad in this big

584
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 3: woods piece in Ohio because there was this area that

585
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 3: he got this one deer I think it was this

586
00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 3: deer he called we called Chriser because there was a

587
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 3: guy used to hunt there. His name, last name was Chrysler,

588
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 3: I believe, And and it was just like this really

589
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 3: small spine back and like so the dose would always

590
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 3: run like this spine back right, and like you would

591
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 3: never see deer during daylight in there really ever, right,

592
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 3: it was always kind of like night nighttime. But there

593
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 3: was this giant bed that was just like off that

594
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 3: spine back maybe four or five foot in the brush

595
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 3: that was just huge and like warmed to the dirt.

596
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 3: But we would never get a picture of a buck

597
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 3: in there like any other time of year other than

598
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 3: like the rut right, and so it was kind of

599
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 3: a rutbed er. It was like, so, huh, interesting, rutbed

600
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 3: does traveling us a lot? Makes a lot of sense.

601
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 3: He can sit here and just pick does off? Okay? Cool.

602
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 3: Another area there was this big primary scrape that we

603
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 3: would just get like these hammer bucks on, like one

604
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 3: of them was like a world class animal. And two

605
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 3: years we've watched this scrape and like hunting in and

606
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 3: around it and stuff like that, and nothing ever really happened.

607
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 3: And we were scouting the following year and I just

608
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 3: happened to be on the I guess the leeward side

609
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 3: of that ridge behind that scrape, about sixty yards down

610
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 3: the side of the ridge as we were coming up,

611
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 3: because we went all the way around the ridge and

612
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 3: then we were coming back up and our rendezvous point

613
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 3: was kind of like to come up and meet right

614
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 3: around that scrape because it was in this old ballyard

615
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 3: And as we're coming up, there's like a giant bed

616
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 3: that's perfectly downwind of where that scrape was at about

617
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 3: sixty yards from it, like on this little bench. So

618
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 3: I pull up my map real quick and I'm looking.

619
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 3: I'm like, you gotta be kidneing, man. I'm like, this

620
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 3: thing is like literally rate below that scrape, and so

621
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 3: not a big surprise all of a sudden, you know,

622
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 3: that rut rolls around or pre rud or whatever timeframe,

623
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 3: and a buck starts bedding there waiting to catch doze

624
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 3: and just scent checking. It never has to move right.

625
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 3: So now what I started doing is when I find

626
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 3: these community scrapes, I don't take a ton of time,

627
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 3: but I take like a quick like thirty minutes and

628
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 3: just kind of like do like a pinwheel out from

629
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 3: that from that community scrape and just start pinning me

630
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 3: whee on my way out to where I get maybe

631
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 3: thirty forty fifty yards in all directions out from it,

632
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 3: to see if there's a bed that's around there somewhere

633
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 3: that a deer might use during the rut right to

634
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 3: see like, because I don't think I don't think every

635
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 3: scrape is every scrape is not created equal, but certain

636
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 3: ones when you get spidy sense if you pin wheel out,

637
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 3: all of a sudden you'll find that bed that they'll

638
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 3: use as like that rutbed. And so that's what I

639
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 3: found last year. I could have never found it because

640
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 3: it's so thick and swampy in this area. But whenever

641
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 3: I walked in there to hang a camera two three

642
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 3: weeks or to check the camera that had in there

643
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 3: two or three weeks ago, I went back to see

644
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 3: where that deer was at, and sure enough, there's a

645
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 3: bed there, and there's a down log. There's an easy

646
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 3: way for him to get in, an easy way for

647
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 3: him to get out. It's like a perfect setup, right.

648
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 3: And so that's the other thing I started doing, Like

649
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 3: even in the summer, when I find those areas, I

650
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 3: just kind of pin wheel out and see if I

651
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 3: can't locate a bed that's somewhere close by.

652
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: You bring up an interesting point there, and I'm I

653
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 2: look at like probably ninety five percent of scrapes like

654
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 2: they do mean no good, yeah, but the want five

655
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 2: percent that do I really like, and they're always tied.

656
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 2: Like what you're talking about. You treat them a little

657
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 2: bit differently than I do. But what you're saying is

658
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 2: you have this community scrape. It's at it. It's in

659
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 2: a spot where a buck can bed down when he

660
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: can wait for the action to come to him. He

661
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: doesn't have to go to it. He could probably wait

662
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,479
Speaker 2: for the little scrappers to chase by and gauge that

663
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: situation or whatever. But all of that is tied to

664
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: some kind of travel hub, Like, all of it is

665
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: tied to a place where the deer just like to

666
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: go and be. So what you're saying is like that

667
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 2: scrape is like it tips you off, Like it's like

668
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 2: that's the one thing where you're like, Okay, now I

669
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,479
Speaker 2: need to investigate this spot. But most people think, well,

670
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: there's a big community scrape here with a good looking branch,

671
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 2: I'm gonna hunt this. But what does that scrape like signify,

672
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 2: Like what's going on in that area that matters more?

673
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 2: And what it is is it's a hub. It's those

674
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: are going to be located in a place where deer

675
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 2: move morning and eve and for multiple reasons, they come

676
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: through there, usually from different directions, and there's just like

677
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 2: a high odds chance of being around traveling deer where

678
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 2: those show up.

679
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean to me, it's it's it's like the

680
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:16,959
Speaker 3: you know, when I was a kid, you'd hang out

681
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 3: in the parking lot of like the burger king or whatever.

682
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 3: It's the burger king hang out for deer, you know

683
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 3: what I mean. Like they're just you know, it's like

684
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 3: there's so many things that kind of connect in those spots.

685
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 3: It's like if you're in hill country, it's oftentimes it's

686
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 3: some type of thermal hub.

687
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 2: Right.

688
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,479
Speaker 3: It's a lot of times where multiple ridges are kind

689
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 3: of coming together and they're all kind of dumping down

690
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 3: into this bottom at the same spot, right, and it's

691
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 3: really easy for the deer to be able to smell

692
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 3: everything that's happening on every ridge, and so all of

693
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 3: a sudden, a lot of deer congregate congregate there, and

694
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 3: then they start leaving sign there their sin is there,

695
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 3: they lay down a scrape, and that becomes like a

696
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 3: central central hub. One hundred percent agree with you, Like

697
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 3: they're not all huntable. What I do, going back to

698
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 3: what we were talking about with summer, what I'll use

699
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 3: You know, if you're like me and you're a working guy,

700
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 3: I have to time my hunts and be very strategic

701
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 3: about the days I'm going to get out, right, And

702
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 3: so that's why I focus a lot on scrapes because

703
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 3: I can usually predict not what's going to happen directly

704
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,959
Speaker 3: at that location, although sometimes I can, but I can

705
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 3: predict what's going to happen in the general area much

706
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 3: better if I have a really good scrape in that

707
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 3: spot to kind of start to be my barometer for

708
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 3: the area, if you will, right. And so, what I'll

709
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 3: do during the summer, and what I'll use summer for

710
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 3: is I hang my cameras on those scrapes, you know,

711
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 3: And people are like, when you're hanging cameras on scrapes

712
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 3: in the summer, it's like, well, yeah, but what I

713
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 3: want to see is that if there aren't any deer

714
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 3: hitting it during the summer, then I'm like, Okay, that's

715
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 3: just like a rut pre rut scrape. It might be decent,

716
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 3: it might not be. If it's not connected to something

717
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 3: else that's nearby that really kind of trips my trigger,

718
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 3: then it's probably not worth a hunt unless there's like

719
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 3: a terrain feature that's close by that like is really

720
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 3: good that I want that I want to hunt. But

721
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 3: if I get deer hitting that thing almost daily during

722
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 3: the summer, I'm like this is like a main kind

723
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 3: of artery for deer activity, regardless of whether it's that scrape,

724
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 3: the things in this area this is a play or

725
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 3: is are things that are drawing deer to it on

726
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 3: a daily basis, regardless if it's does you know, bucks

727
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 3: and velvet, whatever the case is. Deer just want to

728
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 3: be here. So whenever I see that, that's whenever I

729
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 3: start to pay a lot of attention to it. And

730
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 3: it's not like they hit it once or twice. It's

731
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 3: like I'm looking for multiple days a week during out

732
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 3: of season, right that they're hitting these scrapes, and those

733
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 3: are the ones I'll prioritize and I try to find

734
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 3: those on every piece I have. And then what I

735
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 3: do is I use that summer intel. I watch the

736
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 3: fawn drops. I try to find if there's an early

737
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 3: fawn drop, which the one I do know that I

738
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 3: have as an early fonnd drop. So that's why the

739
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 3: eighteenth of every October I'm in that spot because the

740
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 3: past two years I've had an encounter with my shoot

741
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 3: with my target deer on the eighteenth in that spot right,

742
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 3: because that does is getting ready to come in and

743
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 3: she's bread somewhere between the fifteenth and the twentieth, and

744
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 3: so I use the fawn drop data during the summer

745
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 3: for the upcoming hunting season to kind of know when

746
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 3: these spots are going to come in. And then I

747
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 3: watch them during the rut as well to understand, you know,

748
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 3: when are these dough groups actually cycling in, you know,

749
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 3: because they'll cycle in the same every year. And so

750
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 3: I just watch these scrapes and I start dating these

751
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 3: scrapes going right this week for this scrape, this week,

752
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 3: for this scrape, this week, for this scrape, And then

753
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 3: I don't waste my time hunting in an area where

754
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 3: I don't have those that are warming up that are

755
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 3: going to attract deer for me. You can't bait in PA.

756
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 3: I wouldn't anyway. But that's the closest thing you can

757
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 3: get to get in an attractant to bring a buck

758
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 3: in is to know when those dose extra states are.

759
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 3: And I do that by kind of, you know, just

760
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 3: dating the scrapes.

761
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 2: Man. That's that's high level. I want to take a

762
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 2: step back here a second. Yeah, And because you brought

763
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 2: up something a while ago that I made a note

764
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,239
Speaker 2: on that I want to talk about because I've been

765
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 2: thinking about it a lot, and you were talking about elevation,

766
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 2: and you were talking about like the subtlety to terrain

767
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: and like finding the difference of you know, ten feet

768
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 2: in elevation or twenty feet or thirty feet, how important

769
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 2: that is. And I'm starting to get to the point

770
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 2: this is something. You know, I grew up hunting the

771
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: bluffs in southeastern Minnesota, and I'm I'm I love bluff

772
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 2: country stuff, Like, I like the terrain traps, and I

773
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: like I like that style. But where I live, and

774
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 2: I've lived the last seventeen years, it's pretty freaking flat,

775
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 2: but not like pool table flat. And I started to

776
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 2: just appreciate, you know, if there's a little bit of

777
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 2: a rise in the woods or there's like I'll give

778
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 2: you an example. This. This kind of hit me right

779
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 2: over the head this turkey season. So this farm that

780
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 2: I've been turkey hunt in the last few years pretty flat, right,

781
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 2: There's there's not much to it, but there's one field

782
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 2: on there. There's one field left that we can hunt

783
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 2: because it's being developed, and it's got this little rise

784
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: in it that comes out of the woods. You know,

785
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 2: there's a it's kind of on the edge of a

786
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 2: cattail swamp. It's actually kind of between two cattail swamps,

787
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 2: and it's maybe an elevation change of like six feet.

788
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,959
Speaker 2: But if you walk out on it, you can see

789
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,399
Speaker 2: everything on that side of the field. You can look

790
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 2: from one end to the other. And so scouting turkeys,

791
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 2: I would see turkeys strut on there all the time.

792
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 2: And so this, you know, I put a blind on

793
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 2: there for the kids. Took my daughter in there. She

794
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 2: killed the bird in there. Took my nephew in there.

795
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 2: He killed a bird in there, took his dad in there.

796
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 2: He killed a bird in there. And it's it's just

797
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 2: a spot where they expect to see turkeys and they're

798
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 2: just so visible. So it's like it's got that going

799
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 2: for it. And then I was thinking, you know, I'm like, man,

800
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 2: the buck I shot last year with my muzzleoder was

801
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 2: standing right here. Out of all the places he could

802
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 2: have come out of the woods, he picked that and

803
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 2: he was a little scrapper. But he's like, there's that

804
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 2: just difference because he knows if he walks out there,

805
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 2: he can look down there all the way to the

806
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,399
Speaker 2: end of the field, and he can look the other

807
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 2: way to the end of the field, and I think

808
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 2: we don't appreciate how like tuned into those tiny little

809
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 2: elevation differences. All those deer are out there.

810
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hunting. The flat kind of terrain is is

811
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 3: something that it drives me crazy, to be honest with you.

812
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 3: You know, it was something I had to get used

813
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 3: to locally because locally where I live in eastern Pa

814
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 3: is flat. Where I hunt in the north, you know,

815
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 3: there's there's mountains, and so it's it's very like there's

816
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 3: extremes right here. It's like, you know, you don't even

817
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 3: rarely get that little five five foot ten foot elevation

818
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 3: change here. It's like, you know, you're dealing with primarily

819
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 3: you know, using transition lines and you know, in hard

820
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 3: edges that are set by swamps or whatever whatever the

821
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 3: case is. But I think sometimes, you know, I was

822
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 3: talking to there was a fella I talked to from

823
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,439
Speaker 3: Virginia and he hunts a very similar kind of terrain

824
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 3: where it's a lot of flat. It's just like with

825
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 3: the little knobs and knolls, and he was like, anything

826
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 3: that had like five to ten foot elevation, man, He's like,

827
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 3: you could almost they might not be bedded there, but

828
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 3: they're going to spend time there, and something kind of

829
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 3: I don't remember if he's the one who said it

830
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 3: or if someone else mentioned it to me. It's like

831
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 3: we often forget that deer a lot of times want

832
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 3: want the same things we want, you know. It's like

833
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 3: we want to be fed, we want to be safe,

834
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,240
Speaker 3: we want cover a house or you know, a shelter

835
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 3: of some sort. Right, they're looking for the same things.

836
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:57,720
Speaker 3: They just go about getting it a little bit differently.

837
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 3: We want to be able to see, right, we want

838
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,879
Speaker 3: to be able to observe. Well, they want the same

839
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 3: They want the same thing, you know what I mean,

840
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 3: And so they'll go to the place where they can.

841
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 3: It's not it's not a when you think about it

842
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 3: that way, it's not a surprise if you're thinking about,

843
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 3: you know, the the hunting beast style of things, right,

844
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 3: the dan enfold approach of like you know, uh, setting

845
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,240
Speaker 3: up on like the leeward edge of a of a ridge,

846
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 3: knowing that deer want to spend time there. It's like, well, yeah,

847
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 3: they're going to bed with the wind that's coming over

848
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 3: their back and they're going to look down directly where

849
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 3: they came from. Because now they're covered in all directions, right.

850
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 3: It's like the one reason is because they got the

851
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 3: visual right. It's like, I think we oftentimes discount the

852
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 3: visual element of their protection because we focus so much

853
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 3: on their smell, the smell aspect. We spend so much

854
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 3: time trying to beat their nose. I think we oftentimes

855
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 3: get beat by their eyes, you know. And that's been

856
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 3: true for me, you know, in in Kansas for sure,

857
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 3: you know, because I you know, I've been to Kansas

858
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 3: the past two years. I drew the tag again this

859
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 3: year to go back. And that's the hardest part for

860
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 3: me out there. It's like I I've been within bow

861
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 3: range and we'll say fifteen feet a sorry, fifteen yards

862
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 3: in under all three years. But I've gotten beat by

863
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 3: their eyes and never once have I've been beaten by

864
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 3: their nose yet, you know what I mean. And so

865
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 3: that to me was a thing that kind of just

866
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 3: pointed out to me, like there's little rises, there's little

867
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 3: changes in elevation, especially when you're out there, make all

868
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 3: the difference, you know, between you being skylight or them

869
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 3: skylighting themselves, or them getting into like a little you know,

870
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 3: a little ditch and they're two hundred yards away in

871
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 3: your glass them and then they seemingly disappear and something

872
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 3: that looks flat, you know what I mean. It's like

873
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 3: it's just those little undulations and we overlook them. But

874
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 3: you know, we'd be fools to think that the deer

875
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 3: don't know exactly where those things are at and know

876
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 3: exactly when and how to use those Oh Man, when.

877
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 2: You when you talk about that souf, I think about

878
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 2: so many situations in my life, and I think one

879
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 2: of the easiest ways to understand this is if you

880
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 2: have the opportunity to glass in the summer, so you know,

881
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 2: sit that alf aalpha field, sit that being filled whatever,

882
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 2: and watch what you see. And so pay attention because

883
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 2: we go out and go I want to find that

884
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 2: bachelor group and I want to watch them. But the

885
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 2: real benefit besides finding them, of course, is how do

886
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 2: they use the land? Like are are they tucked into

887
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,919
Speaker 2: a little drainage to feed so you can't see them?

888
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 2: Or like how did they come out of the woods,

889
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 2: or how do they travel from one point of the

890
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 2: woods to the other. And you start watching deer actually

891
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 2: move through the landscape. It's not just a betting thing. Man,

892
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 2: like they're using little, tiny, almost insignificant folds in the

893
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 2: train to their advantage. And they they probably don't even

894
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 2: think about it. It's probably just like a gene deep thing.

895
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 2: But when you watch them do that stuff, it's the

896
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 2: same thing like I talked about the turkeys, like, oh,

897
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: they strut in a field, No, they strut right.

898
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 3: There, right.

899
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you can see them anywhere at any given point. Maybe,

900
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 2: But if you want consistency, which is what we're all

901
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 2: looking for when we're scouting, we're not looking for a

902
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 2: one off encounter. We're looking for high odds places. That

903
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 2: stuff matters so much. And so yeah, like you said earlier,

904
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 2: the advantage of bedding, you know, I mean, if there's

905
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 2: a six foot rise and it's otherwise flat, that's a

906
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,439
Speaker 2: better spot for them to bed than almost anywhere else,

907
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 2: just for that because if they can use the prevailing

908
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 2: wind and they can use their eyes and they're just

909
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 2: a little bit above everything else, that's a win. Like,

910
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: and if they can travel in certain ways and use

911
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 2: that stuff. The more that you figure that kind of

912
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 2: stuff out, like, the more you figure out how they

913
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 2: use the terrain that way, like, it just opens up

914
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 2: a different world to you and you can take that.

915
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 2: Like you said, you know, you go from Pennsylvania to Kansas,

916
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 2: your scouting opportunities are so vastly different. But those little

917
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 2: usages of the terrain, and you know, those deer that

918
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 2: live in open country will teach you a lesson about

919
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 2: how they use like a little fold in the terrain.

920
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 2: I mean it. It is mind blowing when you hunt

921
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 2: them in that open terrain, how easily they can dis

922
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: or how many deer can hide from you where you're like,

923
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 2: there's no way, like I would see every coyote out there,

924
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 2: and then you figure it out and you go, man,

925
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 2: there was there was a whole little herd of them

926
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 2: in the same section as me that I had no

927
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,760
Speaker 2: idea to I walked over this little lip of a ridge.

928
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I want to You're hund percent right, man.

929
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 3: And there's there's like an approach that I have like

930
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 3: whenever i'm you know e scouting for Kansas that I

931
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 3: kind of like, I don't want to say I developed it,

932
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 3: actually I kind of I want to say I learned it,

933
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 3: But I kind of was tipped off by just through

934
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,720
Speaker 3: a conversation with Eddie Claypoole. I know, you're good buddies

935
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,439
Speaker 3: with with Eddie. And but to go back to before

936
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 3: I get to that, the one thing about terrain, Like,

937
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,959
Speaker 3: so when I'm talking thinking about that north piece, those

938
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 3: small little kind of undulations or high spots, they become

939
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 3: really really important, especially the spot that I'm gonna be

940
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 3: spending a lot of time in this summer and then

941
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 3: hunting this fall in and around those swamp ears, because

942
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 3: that little three foot five foot rise that is the

943
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 3: primo betting opportunity in those wet in those wet areas.

944
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 3: And that's also in those areas where I'll find those

945
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 3: land bridges that are kind of connecting two swamps sort

946
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 3: of like the passageway between two swamps and stuff like that,

947
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 3: and that's really the only high ground until you get

948
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 3: out of the swamp, right, And so it's those things

949
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 3: that kind of dictate the movement of the deer, dictate

950
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 3: the betting opportunities and stuff like that. And so it's

951
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 3: I start to try to focus on those things. The

952
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 3: second part in that big woods piece that I started

953
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 3: kind of focusing in on are almost like these big

954
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 3: like what I'll call like just big drainages or big

955
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 3: draws that are kind of cut into the side of

956
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 3: the mountain where it probably has a stream runoff in

957
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 3: it whenever there's a bunch of melt in the in

958
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 3: the winter or whatever. What I've found is that I

959
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 3: found a lot of trails and sign that are following

960
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 3: following those drainages, almost up to the top of those drainages,

961
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 3: and so I started kind of focusing in on those,

962
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 3: and lo and behold, found a hammer scrape. Whenever I

963
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 3: was there, like the Midish May hung a cell camera

964
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 3: on it, and sure enough, a deer that had like

965
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 3: popcan sized bases already and it was already split in

966
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,760
Speaker 3: a brow on like May eleventh, showed up on that scrape.

967
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 3: So there were two things there. It was like that

968
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 3: draw is kind of dictating the movement, right, and also

969
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 3: a scrape there. Knowing that, okay, there's a there's a

970
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 3: terrain feature there. It's also near a logging road like

971
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 3: a bench that they're using, so there's two you know,

972
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 3: avenues of travel and then deer using it during the

973
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 3: summer consistently, and so I'm like, yachtzi, I'm like, that

974
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 3: is a spot that I'll be spending time and it's

975
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 3: a bitch to get into because you have to climb

976
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 3: the side of a mountain, so the thermals are really

977
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 3: kind of odd where you can really only get in

978
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 3: the morning when your thermals are falling, and it's an

979
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 3: all day hunt, Like, you can't really get into the

980
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 3: afternoon to hunt it. It's got to be a morning

981
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 3: sit in, an all day or a morning hunting you're

982
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 3: out type of thing. But pivoting to the Kansas thing.

983
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 3: The thing I started like, so I lived too far

984
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 3: away from Kansas to drive there to scout during the summer.

985
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 3: The first year we were fortunate my buddy Chat went

986
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 3: out and actually turkey hunted the first year before we

987
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 3: went there, and so we got a little bit of

988
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 3: the lay of the land a little bit. But you know,

989
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 3: what I really kind of have to rely on is

990
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 3: just looking at maps over the course of the summer,

991
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 3: and it's all walk in access. So it's not like,

992
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 3: you know, I have like a big piece of private

993
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 3: or a big chunk of public that I'm going to

994
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 3: have fifty thousand acres to hunt. I'm going to be

995
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 3: hopping pieces. So it's a lot of like looking at

996
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 3: small parcels and stuff like that, and what I started

997
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,439
Speaker 3: doing was really kind of focusing on areas that have

998
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 3: a drainage system that kind of runs through it. And

999
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 3: what I kind of figured out was talking with Eddie

1000
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 3: the one time is we were kind of talking about it,

1001
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 3: and you know, Eddie's a little bit of a different

1002
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 3: animal where he goes out in like the middle of

1003
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 3: like a blue stem patch like field and it will

1004
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 3: sit up and like the only tree that's out there,

1005
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 3: and the deer wall just magnetically walk toward that tree, right.

1006
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 3: But I was asking him about Betted Bucks and he

1007
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 3: was like, well, he's like Betted Bucks, you know, you know,

1008
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 3: oftentimes during the rut, because he knew I was going

1009
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 3: out during the rut. He's like, you know, they'll cut

1010
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 3: these dose out and they'll take him to the heads

1011
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 3: of these drainages, you know what I mean. I was like, Okay,

1012
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 3: He's like, but it's not the main drainage. He's like,

1013
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 3: when you look at you get in there and you

1014
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 3: look at a drainage, He's like, there's drainages just have

1015
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 3: like these little offshoots like tributaries that are running off

1016
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 3: of them and stuff like that. He's like, it's you

1017
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 3: usually in one of those like secondary offshoots off the

1018
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 3: main drainage because they're usually the most brushy. He's like,

1019
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 3: and that's usually where they want to cut deer out too.

1020
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 3: I just kind of paused for a second, and I

1021
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 3: was like, shoot, I was like, that drainage is just

1022
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 3: an inverted ridge. I was like, and so those offshoots

1023
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 3: of those secondary kind of tributaries of that drainage is

1024
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 3: like our secondary ridges. He's like, well, by god, you're right,

1025
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 3: you know, it's like one of those things. I never

1026
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 3: thought of it that way, And so then all of

1027
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 3: a sudden it made sense to me on how to

1028
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 3: scout it and how to look at it, because it

1029
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 3: was just an upside down ridge and those you know,

1030
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 3: if you have a west wind that east side, you know,

1031
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 3: tributary off of that main drainage, that's your spot, you

1032
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:43,439
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Because that's the that's the place

1033
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 3: where they're going to have everything under under control. They're

1034
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 3: going to smell everything and able to see what they

1035
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 3: need to see. You got to backdoor it, but that's

1036
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 3: the area they're going to want to play. And so

1037
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 3: I've seen that kind of play out the path last

1038
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 3: year because I relied on that approach was just like scouting,

1039
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 3: you know, uh east scouting and kind of finding these

1040
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 3: drains and then heading to those drainages to the heads

1041
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 3: of those and kind of looking for those kind of

1042
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 3: like offshoots and then kind of setting up in those areas.

1043
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:08,399
Speaker 3: And that's where I was having my encounters and where

1044
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 3: I was seeing, you know, and if I wasn't having

1045
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 3: the encounter, I was glassing the deer in those areas

1046
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 3: before I went in to actually make a move.

1047
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 2: When you when you're hunting them, are you sitting on the.

1048
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 3: Ground, Yeah, hundred percent on the ground for those no

1049
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 3: trees to get into. No, no, I mean there was

1050
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 3: one tree in this crick bottom. I was able to

1051
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 3: get into a thorny ass locust tree, and you know,

1052
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 3: I did that like one day, and I was like, yep,

1053
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 3: not doing that again. And but all my encounters have

1054
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 3: been on the ground. You know. It's like I've not

1055
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 3: had any good encounters with quality, you know, with good age,

1056
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 3: structured deer. I've had like the one day I was

1057
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 3: in a tree the first year I was there, and

1058
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 3: I had like a decent buck kind of like walk

1059
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 3: right underneath me. But like anything that I was willing

1060
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 3: to draw my bow back on have all been on

1061
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 3: the ground.

1062
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's an obvious reason for that, right.

1063
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 3: Like I was in spots. I was in spots. They're

1064
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 3: just hard to wiggle your way into, you know what

1065
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 3: I mean. It was like, you know, and that's the

1066
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 3: name of the game out there, is like you try

1067
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 3: to find because you think it's all flat. But there's

1068
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 3: a lot more role to it than you think, you know,

1069
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 3: and so you really kind of have to examine, especially

1070
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 3: when you're doing all your es scouting, and kind of like

1071
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 3: be very mindful of like that little rise, that little

1072
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 3: role is a big deal when you get out there,

1073
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 3: Like I look at it, and if I have my

1074
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 3: pennsylvani your brain on, I overlook it.

1075
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:23,399
Speaker 2: Yep.

1076
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 3: But I got to kind of shift my mindset when

1077
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 3: I start looking at that stuff. Over the summers, I'm

1078
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 3: getting ready to go out there, because there's like a

1079
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 3: lot of times I'll be like, I'm not dropping a

1080
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 3: pin there. Then I have to go, Hey, put your

1081
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 3: Kansas brain on. You need to drop a pin there.

1082
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 3: You need to probably walk that because that's probably a

1083
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 3: little bit more significant than you think it is, you know.

1084
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 3: And so that's really my approach for out.

1085
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 2: There, dude.

1086
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 3: That is a.

1087
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 2: Real common problem if you if you head to a

1088
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 2: state like Kansas and you haven't hunted that kind of

1089
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 2: terrain you know, I mean obviously not the whole states

1090
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 2: like that, but you look at it like eat scouting

1091
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 2: and you go, Okay, you know there's a drainage here

1092
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: or whatever, like I'll go glass that quick, and I'll

1093
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 2: check this spot out, and there's a few trees in

1094
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 2: the creek bottom here. And then you get out there

1095
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 2: and you see the scope of that terrain and it's

1096
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 2: it's big country where you know, those drainages are way

1097
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 2: bigger than you think, and yet you still have the

1098
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 2: opportunity to blow everything out so fast. So it's like

1099
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 2: a weird like you're right, you have to kind of

1100
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 2: reconfigure how you look at this stuff. It's not like

1101
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 2: you're walking into a section of timber and you're like,

1102
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to find a concentration to sign and start hunting.

1103
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 2: It's a totally different animal. And I think it's so

1104
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 2: important to try to hunt different styles like that or

1105
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:41,359
Speaker 2: different different terrain because it just teaches you, like what

1106
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 2: you think you know, you know, like you said when

1107
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 2: you when you look at that stuff on your EA scouting,

1108
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 2: you're like, ah, maybe maybe not. And then you go

1109
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 2: look at it in real life and you're like, man,

1110
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 2: I just dismissed the better part of half a section

1111
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 2: cause est scouting, it doesn't look like this stuff I

1112
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 2: typically eat scout. Then you get out there in the

1113
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,280
Speaker 2: real world and you're like, you could tuck five thousand

1114
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 2: booners in there and not be able to see them

1115
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 2: from the road. You know, like it's a different thing.

1116
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 2: I love that kind of stuff because it just challenges

1117
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 2: you to, like your worldview changes a lot when you

1118
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 2: start getting into that kind of stuff.

1119
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, so whenever I'm in Kansas, you know, or a

1120
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 3: place that has that, you know, just flat terrain, you know,

1121
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 3: my focus really in E scouting and stuff is really

1122
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 3: primarily on figuring out how to try to find a

1123
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 3: spot to get into an area that I want to hunt,

1124
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 3: so I can actually glass and get a visual before

1125
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 3: I kind of trump into a place, you know, just

1126
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 3: because you don't know what's kind of you know, laying

1127
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 3: in the head of that draw or what's out in

1128
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 3: the CRPI field that you kind of need to make

1129
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 3: your way through whatever the case. Keeping the wind in

1130
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:43,919
Speaker 3: your face is the easy part out there. The hard

1131
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 3: part is trying to get to a visual vantage point

1132
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 3: because everyone thinks it's flat, but it's not, you know.

1133
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 3: So it's trying to figure out how I'll get into

1134
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 3: a spot without blowing everything out so I can actually

1135
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 3: glass and get a visual on where I want to

1136
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 3: get to without alerting the deer that I'm trying to kill,

1137
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 3: that I'm that I'm there, you know. And so that

1138
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 3: to me is kind of the game within the game

1139
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 3: out there, so to speak, and really where a lot

1140
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 3: of my time is spent, you know, scouting well, and what.

1141
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 2: That makes me think of and a lot of the

1142
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 2: stuff you've said is we look at deer. Scouting is

1143
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 2: like I gotta find the deer. I gotta find my

1144
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 2: target buck, or I got to find a bachelor group,

1145
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,839
Speaker 2: or I got to find a concentration of deer. But

1146
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 2: that's like foundational, Like that's like basics, Like sure, you

1147
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 2: want to know he lives there, he walked through there

1148
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 2: one time or whatever. But like figuring out how to

1149
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 2: hunt those spots is what scouting does for you. It's

1150
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 2: not just like, oh, I'm going to identify a target

1151
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 2: buck and give him a name good enough, Like no,

1152
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:49,839
Speaker 2: And when you talk about this Kansas thing, finding where

1153
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 2: the deer should be is pretty easy, like you can

1154
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 2: you can e scout and look at it and go,

1155
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 2: you know, like there probably should be a concentration in

1156
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 2: this drainage and a concentration in that one. But figuring

1157
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 2: out out how to work against that disadvantage of you

1158
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 2: being so much more visible than they are, even though

1159
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 2: it's open country and theoretically you kind of should be

1160
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 2: on the same level, you're not, Like that's what the

1161
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 2: scouting like, that's what that's what you need to figure out,

1162
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 2: Like you need to figure out how to how to

1163
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 2: get in there without them seeing you, because their advantage

1164
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 2: there is so much greater. You know, it's different than

1165
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 2: when you're home at Pennsylvania and you're like I can

1166
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 2: walk through the woods and a lot of stuff's not

1167
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 2: going to be able to see me because I'm in

1168
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 2: the woods. Now, I got to figure out where are

1169
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 2: they going to go to find those or where are

1170
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 2: they going to go to get away from the rest

1171
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:37,320
Speaker 2: of the pressure. Like that's a different game than scouting

1172
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 2: that Kansas ground, you know, like finding a buck there,

1173
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 2: and I think I think we've kind of done a

1174
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 2: disservice to the like hunting community by there's been a

1175
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 2: lot of hunting content that comes out of like spot

1176
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 2: in Stock Kansas Bucks and you're looking at guys finding

1177
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,479
Speaker 2: a buck, getting in there and shooting in it's action

1178
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 2: packed and it looks amazing, but you're not looking at

1179
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 2: the days and days of glassing where they're just not

1180
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 2: on them, or they're seeing deer where they're like, there's

1181
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 2: a great buck, I have no chance of getting anywhere

1182
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 2: near him, and I got to go find something else.

1183
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 2: It is not It looks easy when it's distilled down

1184
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 2: to a YouTube video and that shit is tough.

1185
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it was. It was eye opening for me, man,

1186
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 3: and it's maybe a better hunter, you know, because your

1187
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 3: earlier point. You know, we focus so much of the

1188
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 3: scouting on finding the deer where that's actually the easiest part.

1189
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 3: Like if you think about it, because they're laying down

1190
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 3: sign and they're telling you where they're at, they're telling

1191
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 3: you where they're spending time. They may not tell you

1192
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 3: exactly what time of year. That's like you have to

1193
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 3: do your due diligence. Maybe sit, hang some cameras, do

1194
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 3: some observation sits, you know, scout during the season, whatever

1195
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 3: the case is. But definding the deer part is the

1196
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 3: easy part. Figuring out how to like get in there

1197
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 3: with close enough to get them killed without them knowing

1198
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,879
Speaker 3: that you're there, That's where the scouting actually takes place, right,

1199
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 3: because then it becomes that's really when you're battling your

1200
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 3: wits against the deer's wits. You know what I mean,

1201
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 3: Because I'm I think I know how you're using this area.

1202
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 3: I need to I need to kind of pull a

1203
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 3: fast one on you, make you think I'm not there

1204
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 3: while I'm there, you know, and try to use your

1205
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 3: senses against you to a degree, is what you're kind

1206
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 3: of doing. Right, and then so that's very much like

1207
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 3: a Pennsylvania or just like a timbered kind of approach. Right,

1208
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 3: you see the sign, do you know the deer's in

1209
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 3: the area. You figure out how you get your you

1210
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 3: know your access, et cetera, et cetera. When you're in Kansas,

1211
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 3: you know those flat areas, finding the deer's really easy.

1212
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 3: It might take some driving around, right, but you're just glassing,

1213
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 3: sitting behind your Bino's watching and you're finding where they're at,

1214
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 3: and then then becomes the chess match, right, especially if

1215
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 3: you're out there during the rut, might be a little bit.

1216
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 3: I might take your advice this year, I might go

1217
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:53,359
Speaker 3: out in October. So we'll see, because you know, during

1218
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 3: the rut, it's like, so I found you didn't just

1219
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 3: find a buck. Most likely you likely found a buck

1220
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:00,359
Speaker 3: in two or three dos that he's pushing around. If

1221
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,320
Speaker 3: it's you know, a dominant buck, you'll might find some

1222
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 3: pecker heads running around by themselves or nudging a do around,

1223
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 3: you know, or run around like they're lost. But if

1224
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 3: it's a mature deer, at least what I've seen out there,

1225
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 3: they usually they're pushing two or three around because there's

1226
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 3: a small dog group that has a hot dough in

1227
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 3: and he's pushing them around, and eventually he's going to

1228
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 3: cut around, but he's just pushing the whole group around

1229
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 3: until it comes time. And now you're trying to beat him,

1230
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 3: which he's not as hard to beat because he's kind

1231
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 3: of an idiot. At that point, you know, it's still

1232
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 3: not easy. But then you've got his lady friend and

1233
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 3: whatever other lady friends that she might be hanging out

1234
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 3: with that you're having to beat at the same time,

1235
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 3: And that's where the game really kind of gets interesting.

1236
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 3: That's where you start to kind of how far can

1237
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 3: I push the envelope. You know, is rattling going to

1238
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 3: work to try to entice him, is decoy going to

1239
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 3: tick him off to get him to come in. That's

1240
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 3: when you have to start kind of reading the deer.

1241
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:50,399
Speaker 3: So this is like the next level of scouting. It's

1242
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 3: not just find the deer. Okay, now I got in.

1243
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 3: The next step is I can't close the distance. How

1244
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 3: do how do I get him in range? Right? And

1245
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 3: so it's just I've fallen in love with it because

1246
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 3: there's so many layers to that game that you don't

1247
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 3: sometimes get to play in timbered areas.

1248
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 2: Man, you're you're so right on all this stuff. I

1249
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 2: want to back up a second and talk about the

1250
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 2: finding the deer thing that you went through just a

1251
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 2: little bit ago, because I think this is maybe the

1252
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 2: biggest disservice that widespread trail camera usage has given us,

1253
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 2: Like it is not that hard to get a picture

1254
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 2: of a good buck, Like I don't care where you live,

1255
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 2: where you hunt. If you got a little bit of

1256
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,760
Speaker 2: you know, a little bit of horsepower between your ears.

1257
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 2: At some point in the summer or at some point

1258
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 2: in the fall, you can probably get a picture of

1259
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 2: a buck. Goot to make you real happy. You know.

1260
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 2: That might be a one to ten somewhere and it

1261
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:52,239
Speaker 2: might be a one to seventy somewhere else, but you

1262
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:56,720
Speaker 2: can do it. And we've kind of convinced ourselves that

1263
00:55:56,719 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 2: that's good enough, Like that's you know, we've got it

1264
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 2: figured out then, And it doesn't mean anything until you

1265
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 2: scout enough to figure out how to hunt them. Like

1266
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 2: it doesn't you know, it's the same thing like you

1267
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 2: said about you know, if you're out in Kansas and

1268
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 2: you glass up one hundred and sixty incher out there

1269
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:18,760
Speaker 2: in the pasture, great, like what's next? Like that's awesome,

1270
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 2: it's fun, But what's next? I mean what it reminds

1271
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:24,319
Speaker 2: me of God? You know, like for a long time

1272
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 2: in the in the Turkey hunting world, you'd hear people

1273
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 2: say like, oh, roosted, like roosted is roasted, and then

1274
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:33,320
Speaker 2: it kind of changes like roosted isn't necessarily roasted anymore.

1275
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 2: It's like because it doesn't take that long for you

1276
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 2: go out there and you have that bird gobbling his

1277
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 2: ass off one hundred yards away and you don't kill him,

1278
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 2: and then it happens again and he doesn't fly down

1279
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:43,839
Speaker 2: on your decoach, and you go, okay, this is this

1280
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 2: is not enough, Like there wasn't enough to my setup,

1281
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:48,879
Speaker 2: or you know, like your your example with a buck

1282
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 2: with a couple of dos, like you're competing with a

1283
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 2: bird that has a couple of hens with him. Now

1284
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 2: it's a different story. Like so much of this stuff,

1285
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:58,760
Speaker 2: we go good enough. I figured I found the scrape,

1286
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 2: I found fence crossing. They like I got a picture

1287
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 2: of three big ones on this trail in August. It's over.

1288
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 2: It's like no, like that's the start. And I'm continually

1289
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:11,839
Speaker 2: reminded of that when I talk to guys like you

1290
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 2: and Andy May and some of these people who are

1291
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 2: real obsessed with scouting, because it's not you know, like

1292
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 2: it's it's always starts with I found this then, like

1293
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 2: I found him then, or I found this spot then,

1294
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 2: and then it goes into this long process, like maybe

1295
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 2: a multi year process of like now I gotta figure

1296
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 2: out how to hunt it, or somebody will be like,

1297
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 2: you know, you drew your Kansas tag and you're like,

1298
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,919
Speaker 2: oh my god, this world of hunting, these planes, you're

1299
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 2: so vastly different, Like it started there, like now all

1300
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 2: of a sudden, this journey to scout started with just

1301
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 2: getting that tag or like walking into the big woods

1302
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: when you're used to hunting you know, egg country and

1303
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 2: going holy shit, like I have a new world. But

1304
00:57:56,000 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 2: it's not, it's not. It doesn't hinge on just finding

1305
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 2: the deer and done. Like there's that. That's just like

1306
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 2: the you're opening the door, like you were standing on

1307
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 2: the porch, you knock, they let you in, and now

1308
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 2: you got to go like it's totally different.

1309
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's interesting because I've kind of

1310
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 3: done myself a disservice. Well, first I want to say,

1311
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 3: you know, for people listening, like, I'm not one of

1312
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 3: these guys who's it's like not one hundred and seventy

1313
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 3: inch deer or a bus, right, it's whatever's going to get

1314
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 3: me excited. You know, I'm not I'm not necessarily I

1315
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 3: like big deer, don't get me wrong, but I'm not

1316
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 3: into the you know the quote unquote horn porn. You

1317
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 3: know that's not my that's not my game. You know,

1318
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 3: if a good one hundred and thirty plus inch deer

1319
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 3: walks by me, you know out in Kansas, you know,

1320
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 3: I get a crack at him. You know, awesome, I'm

1321
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 3: gonna you know, I'm going to take a shot. But

1322
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 3: you know what you were kind of saying around the

1323
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 3: game just kind of beginning, like I've kind of started

1324
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 3: my game almost completely over whe where I kind of

1325
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 3: tacked a big woods piece and I started going to

1326
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 3: Kansas at the same time. So it was two brand

1327
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 3: new kind of areas, you know, where I was like,

1328
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 3: I went into those seasons knowing that like it's going

1329
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 3: to be a while, you know what I mean, Like

1330
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 3: if I really want to consistently be able to hunt

1331
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 3: this big woods piece, I I got to be committed

1332
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 3: to it, and I just got to spend my time

1333
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 3: here and know that it's probably going to be a

1334
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 3: couple of season endeavor before it happens. And then the

1335
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 3: Kansas piece was a big slice of humble pie because

1336
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 3: you know, I'd been to the Iowa and Ohio and

1337
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 3: I've killed deer in those areas. I have, you know,

1338
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 3: more target rich environment more so than PA and stuff

1339
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 3: like that, and so I was like, Kansas, you know,

1340
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 3: we should get it, should get it done. And this

1341
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 3: would be my third year back and I've had three

1342
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 3: deer that I've been either at full draw on or

1343
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 3: within you know, fifteen yards under that the smallest one

1344
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 3: was like mid one forties. And being fifteen yards or

1345
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 3: closer to a caliber or that deer on the ground

1346
00:59:58,080 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 3: and just not being able to get an arrow in

1347
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 3: him has just been extremely humbling, you know, because it's

1348
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 3: just it's one of those things where, you know, the

1349
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 3: first year out there, like I was playing it all wrong,

1350
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like I was just I

1351
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 3: was just like one of those It was like I

1352
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 3: turned twenty one and someone took me the Strip club

1353
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 3: for the first time, got a water ones and I'm like,

1354
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 3: what's up? You know, that was how I was doing it,

1355
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 3: you know, And I blew a bunch of hunts, and

1356
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 3: you know, the last day of that hunt, actually had

1357
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 3: a really good deer, you know, probably borderline hundred and

1358
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 3: fifty inch deer, and he got within fifteen yards and

1359
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:31,439
Speaker 3: he caught my thermal, you know, and I was hung

1360
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 3: out the dry in the middle of nothing. And then

1361
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 3: last year, you know, I had one it was you

1362
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 3: know one forties, you know, clean eight awesome deer. It

1363
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 3: was a hunt on a whim at the head of

1364
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 3: a draw, like right, working the wind correctly, and I

1365
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 3: clipped a small branch. When I went to draw back,

1366
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 3: my arrow hit a small twig and that was in

1367
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 3: front of me, and it bounced. The arrow bounced off

1368
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 3: off my off my rest, and he heard it and

1369
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 3: snapped his head around and he was gone. You know,

1370
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 3: I was at full drawing that deer. I've never wanted

1371
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 3: to throw a bow so bad in my life like

1372
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 3: that one almost went for a ride, like I was

1373
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 3: so mad. And then so this is where like the

1374
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 3: game comes in. So so I started learning. I started

1375
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 3: being more patient. That's why I had that really good

1376
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 3: encounter there. And then the first day that was there,

1377
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 3: I just glassed the whole first day I was there,

1378
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 3: and I kind of started figuring out how they were

1379
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 3: using the head of this one draw. And I saw

1380
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 3: the second day when I was taught. You know, I

1381
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 3: walked in during a little bit of daylight and I

1382
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 3: ended up glassing from about two hundred yards away from

1383
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:29,479
Speaker 3: me up the CRP toward the head of that draw.

1384
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 3: Like the reason why you go to Kansas, like I

1385
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 3: ended up seeing him, you know, I ended up being

1386
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 3: close enough to him. He was one hundred and sixty

1387
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 3: plus audiench like mainframe ten, you know, junk Oliver's bases

1388
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 3: like awesome deer. And so I saw him, and from

1389
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 3: the previous year and watching him with those doughs, I

1390
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 3: knew that he was going to cut that dough out

1391
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 3: and he was going to go a breeder and I

1392
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 3: probably wasn't going to see him for like three to

1393
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 3: five days roughly, right, depending on like how close she

1394
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 3: was to being bred. He was gonna lock down with

1395
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 3: her for three and that was you know, and then

1396
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 3: he'll be back. And so I ended up hunting a

1397
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 3: bunch of other areas because I didn't get a shot

1398
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 3: at him. I got about as close as seventy five

1399
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 3: yards and couldn't rattle him in and he walked off

1400
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 3: with her and I didn't see him again. I kept

1401
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 3: an eye on that draw every day. I would kind

1402
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 3: of check it. We didn't see him, and I was

1403
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 3: like the last day of the hunt, I was like,

1404
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 3: this will be the day he should come off that

1405
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 3: dough and so I just played it patient. I didn't

1406
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 3: bust up that draw. I didn't mess with it. I

1407
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 3: glassed it, just kept tabs on those deer hunted some

1408
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 3: other spots. The last day, I went up to the

1409
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 3: head of that draw. Stayed inside the draw because it

1410
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 3: was the last day I was going to be there,

1411
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 3: so I didn't care if my scent was on that

1412
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 3: draw anymore. Walked up the head of that draw, went

1413
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 3: to a tree that I'd picked out, this locust tree

1414
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:38,120
Speaker 3: that he was kind of when I'd seen him previously.

1415
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 3: He walked in from it. When I glassed other deer,

1416
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 3: they were always walking in front of this one tree.

1417
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 3: So I'm using other deer to tell me what deer

1418
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 3: want to do in that spot, not necessarily just him.

1419
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 3: This is again where the scouting part comes in, right.

1420
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 3: It's like you're just trying to take the pieces that

1421
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 3: you can find. And I walked to that tree, walked

1422
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 3: up out of the draw, and there was a deer

1423
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 3: grunting to my right, and there was deer grunt on

1424
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 3: my left, and there was enough like moonlight just starting

1425
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 3: to get a little bit daylight where I could start

1426
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 3: to see a little bit, and I saw deer out

1427
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 3: in front of me, and net net was. There was

1428
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 3: a buck to my right that was grunting. There was

1429
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 3: a dough in front of me, and then there was

1430
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 3: the deer that I was after that was with her,

1431
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 3: and he was standing right behind the tree I was

1432
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 3: trying to get to. He's at thirty yards and I

1433
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 3: can see his frame, and I'm just like, you gotta

1434
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 3: be kidding me. What are the chances we both show

1435
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 3: up the same spot at the same time, right, I

1436
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 3: don't have enough shooting light. I tried to wait him out.

1437
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:26,240
Speaker 3: He was kind of prancing around, getting nervous because that

1438
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 3: other buck was grunting, and I have no I never

1439
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,920
Speaker 3: saw that buck. I just heard him grunting. And so

1440
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 3: I think he thought I was a deer cause I

1441
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,440
Speaker 3: had the back. I had the back like the darkness

1442
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 3: of the draw behind me, and he had like the

1443
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 3: skylight behind him, so I could see him. He couldn't

1444
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 3: see me, and my wind was in my favorite So

1445
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 3: I think he thought I was a deer. So I

1446
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 3: started grunting, grabbed my grunt call and shuffle on my

1447
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 3: feet and got behind a tree, Harlily brown Christmas tree,

1448
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 3: and I made it to the hat and I got

1449
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 3: k nelt down and got an arrow knocked, and I

1450
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:51,920
Speaker 3: was like, if I can just get like another five

1451
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 3: minutes a day light, and if I can get him

1452
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 3: to step in front of where I knew these saplings were,

1453
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 3: I was like, then I have a shot, and so

1454
01:03:57,560 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 3: I got the five minutes that I needed. He snort,

1455
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 3: We used at me. He still thought I was a buck.

1456
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 3: I snort, We used back at him. He postured up,

1457
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 3: started walking toward me, and he walked right to the

1458
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 3: edge of where those sappings where I just stood. There

1459
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 3: he was at like twenty yards and I just I

1460
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 3: just did not have enough light to get a clear pin,

1461
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 3: to be able to to one have a clear pin,

1462
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 3: and two be able to see exactly where those sapplings

1463
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 3: were at. So I didn't like clip one and have

1464
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 3: a deflected arrow hit him and have a bad situation.

1465
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 3: So I ended up just watching him walk out of

1466
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 3: my life. But that's you know, that's you know, that's

1467
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 3: the humbling kind of nature of hunting somewhere like that

1468
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 3: and talking about like the game just starts when you

1469
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 3: find them, it's the scouting you have to do in

1470
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 3: between to figure out how you're going to put yourself

1471
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 3: with like in their world, right, it's not just being

1472
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,440
Speaker 3: it's not like it's not being in there on their planet,

1473
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like I want to be

1474
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 3: in his house, you know. And so that's that's where

1475
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 3: the game really kind of comes into play. And then

1476
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 3: when I left that night, was the last night in

1477
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 3: Kansas and driving out, and I saw him in my

1478
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 3: headlights and he's running beside my truck full Kansas gallop

1479
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 3: through a cut corn field, chasing a dough right beside me.

1480
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 3: I just see like all these antlers. And that was

1481
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 3: when I got the best look at him, because I

1482
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 3: was like right on top of him. I was like,

1483
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 3: you kind of freaking kidding me.

1484
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:23,919
Speaker 2: You bring up a point we don't we don't talk

1485
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 2: about very often. Like I wrote an article last month

1486
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 2: and for Meat Eater, and I've been I've been pounding

1487
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 2: this drum pretty hard about finding another place to hunt.

1488
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 2: And so you know, what you're talking about is something

1489
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 2: not everybody can do, right, Like, not everybody's gonna leave

1490
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 2: Pennsylvania and go hunt Kansas. Like a lot of people

1491
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 2: are staying home, right, And the goal that we've been

1492
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 2: shown in white tail hunting for so long is get

1493
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 2: a spot you can manage and make it so you

1494
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:52,080
Speaker 2: don't have to scout anymore. They're gonna come to the

1495
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 2: food plot, they're gonna go through certain you know, terrain

1496
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 2: traps or whatever. Run some cameras keep tabs on them.

1497
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 2: But you don't have to scout anymore. But you don't

1498
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 2: necessarily get a lot better without getting your ass kick.

1499
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 2: Like when you're talking about your first time in Kansas

1500
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 2: and you're doing everything wrong. That's like a powerful motivator

1501
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:13,200
Speaker 2: to figure new stuff out that you can bring home

1502
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 2: with you and you don't need to travel seventeen states

1503
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 2: away to do it. Like I I think one of

1504
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:21,480
Speaker 2: the biggest problems people have with white tails is we

1505
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 2: limit ourselves to our spot. Like I hunt this place,

1506
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 2: this farm or whatever, and it's like great, you know,

1507
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 2: like that's that's great.

1508
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:30,560
Speaker 3: But.

1509
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 2: Like how are you limiting yourself? Like are you limiting

1510
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:37,040
Speaker 2: yourself on opportunities? If you have like the forty acres

1511
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 2: you hunt and there's ten thousand acres of public land

1512
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 2: down the road, like you could probably level up your

1513
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 2: game a lot, scouting wise and hunting wise by by

1514
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 2: putting yourself in that position where you're like, I don't

1515
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 2: know what's going on here and I have to figure

1516
01:06:50,560 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 2: it out. I think that's like the one of the things.

1517
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 2: You know, you hear a lot of like negativity out

1518
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:57,440
Speaker 2: there on people in the hunting industry and being like, oh,

1519
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 2: they're ruining everything, and I'm like, what you know, that's

1520
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:02,640
Speaker 2: a different topic. But I also look at it and

1521
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:05,520
Speaker 2: I go, these are some of the best hunters you're

1522
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 2: ever gonna meet in your life because they're going to

1523
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 2: places all the time where they have no history, where

1524
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 2: they have to scout on the fly, or they have

1525
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:19,560
Speaker 2: to really bring up their scouting game and figure it out.

1526
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 2: And we can all do that on some level. Yeah,

1527
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:24,120
Speaker 2: you might not be able to go hunt seven states

1528
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 2: a year like most people can't, but you might be

1529
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 2: able to find a place an hour down the road.

1530
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:32,360
Speaker 2: Or maybe you live in you know, southern Michigan and

1531
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 2: you could hunt northern Michigan. You know, like maybe you

1532
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 2: could do something that's still on your resident tag but

1533
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 2: forces you to go I'm not just gonna go sit

1534
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:42,880
Speaker 2: on the same cornfields. I'm not gonna go sit on

1535
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 2: the same ponds, Like I'm gonna go scout and figure

1536
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 2: this stuff out. Because when you start challenging yourself that way. Man,

1537
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:51,520
Speaker 2: things change, and like you get your ass kicked a lot,

1538
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 2: but you're getting better while you're doing it.

1539
01:07:57,040 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, to me, as odd as it might sound, getting

1540
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 3: my own handed to me is part of what I

1541
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 3: like about some of these trips and hunting in these

1542
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 3: different different areas. You know, to your point, man, like

1543
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 3: you don't need to travel three six five however many

1544
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 3: states states away, you know, just finding a pocket of

1545
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:16,559
Speaker 3: your your home state that just offers a different a

1546
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 3: different scenario you know, is often enough, you know, Like

1547
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:23,800
Speaker 3: for me, I look forward, like even like locally, I

1548
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 3: don't hunt the same spots over and over again. Like

1549
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 3: I can only think of one two spots all of

1550
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:32,280
Speaker 3: last season locally that I've hunted in the past, Like

1551
01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 3: every other spot that I hunted last year was was

1552
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 3: was a fresh sit, was new, like I'd never I'd

1553
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:39,719
Speaker 3: scouted it, I'd hung a camera, check cameras in the summer,

1554
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 3: scouted in the summer a little bit, and then just

1555
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 3: went in and hunted, right. And that's just kind of

1556
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 3: what I like to do. I want to fill this

1557
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 3: freaking Kansas tag this year because I want to go

1558
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 3: to a different state and I'm determined to fill the

1559
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:53,720
Speaker 3: tag before I there, fill a Kansas tag before I

1560
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 3: venture off to another state because I've never been to Nebraska.

1561
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:58,479
Speaker 3: I wanted to go to I want to go to Nebraska.

1562
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 3: I've never been to Oklahoma. I want to go to Oklahoma.

1563
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 3: I've never been to Minnesota. I want to go to Minnesota.

1564
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 3: I've never been to Wisconsin. Want to go there, you

1565
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:06,720
Speaker 3: know what I mean. So it's I just like to

1566
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:10,519
Speaker 3: I just like to experience brand new stuff. And for me,

1567
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 3: you know, going back to what we said earlier, you know,

1568
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 3: adaptability being your best ability. I just always want to

1569
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:19,759
Speaker 3: kind of keep that at the forefront and force myself

1570
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 3: to continue to adapt because whenever I'm incomfortable is it

1571
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:27,719
Speaker 3: makes that willingness to be uncomfortable and have to adapt

1572
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:30,639
Speaker 3: makes the game a little easier in some of those

1573
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 3: spots that I have familiarity with, you know. And that's

1574
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 3: why I think, you know, there's a time and place

1575
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 3: for everything, you know, whether it's food, plot building, you know,

1576
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:43,280
Speaker 3: smarter mouse trap, and I think that for people who

1577
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 3: have access to that, I think that's great. I think

1578
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 3: that's a great way to kind of start to understand

1579
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 3: what deer like to do because you maybe see deer

1580
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 3: more often, right, because I know you and I've talked

1581
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:54,439
Speaker 3: about like you've got to be around deer to learn deer. Right,

1582
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:56,559
Speaker 3: So if you have a hard time finding deer and

1583
01:09:56,560 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 3: you have a situation like that where you can just

1584
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 3: be around deer and observe and walk, like that's a

1585
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 3: great way to kind of cut your teeth and then

1586
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 3: take it into like you know, a piece of big

1587
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 3: woods or like the piece of public land it's close

1588
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 3: to your home or whatever, and then start to see

1589
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 3: how some of what you knew starts to fall apart,

1590
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:15,519
Speaker 3: maybe just a little bit, and then what parts you

1591
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:18,599
Speaker 3: have to kind of like sharpen because there were skills

1592
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:21,040
Speaker 3: that you had, but they weren't quite where they needed

1593
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:24,400
Speaker 3: to be, honestly, to kill a deer that everyone else

1594
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 3: has access to or that's not set up for you

1595
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 3: to to put them in a certain spot where they're

1596
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 3: doing exactly what they want to do and you're on

1597
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 3: their terms, you know. And so I think there's a

1598
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:35,719
Speaker 3: time and place for stuff, But I one hundred percent

1599
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 3: agree with you. Man. It's like when you force yourself

1600
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 3: to go do unfamiliar stuff, you have no choice, but

1601
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:46,000
Speaker 3: to get better. Like that's when you're uncomfortable, you're growing.

1602
01:10:46,040 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 3: If you're not, if you're if you're not, if you're comfortable,

1603
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 3: then you're then you're then you're not progressing. It's kind

1604
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:51,519
Speaker 3: of like the old saying.

1605
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 2: Oh man, and what you find out when you do that.

1606
01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 2: And I don't care if you are traveling seven states

1607
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:00,160
Speaker 2: away or you're hunting something you know, a farmed on

1608
01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:04,240
Speaker 2: the road you've never hunted before. You start to, like

1609
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:06,439
Speaker 2: you said, you start to realize the things that you

1610
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 2: believed are bullshit, And man, I you know your your

1611
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:13,280
Speaker 2: obsession is getting that Kansas tag out of the way

1612
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:16,639
Speaker 2: and moving on to another state. I'm I really got

1613
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 2: sucked into this this western Minnesota thing. So I hunted

1614
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:22,200
Speaker 2: there last year for a few days during the rut,

1615
01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 2: got my ass handed to me, saw a few doughs,

1616
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:28,040
Speaker 2: couldn't even get a four ky near me, Like really

1617
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:31,840
Speaker 2: really got rouffed up by it. But I'm like I'm

1618
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:34,080
Speaker 2: around them. And then I went back and pheasant hunted

1619
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:35,680
Speaker 2: a whole bunch again, which is the reason I wanted

1620
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 2: to hunt there. And I'm pheasant hunting properties that I

1621
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 2: deer hunted, and I'm jumping bucks, and it's pissing me

1622
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:45,599
Speaker 2: off because I'm seeing good deer right where I was hunting,

1623
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:50,160
Speaker 2: and I go, people have told me my whole life

1624
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:52,720
Speaker 2: it's not worth deer hunting here, And then I go

1625
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 2: pheasant hunt there, and I'm seeing good deer consistently. Then

1626
01:11:57,080 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 2: I go deer hunt there, and I get my ass kicked,

1627
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:02,439
Speaker 2: and so I go. The disconnect here is not that

1628
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:05,400
Speaker 2: there aren't good deer to hunt, or enough deer to hunt,

1629
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 2: or whatever, enough public land to hunt. It's it's all there.

1630
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:11,479
Speaker 2: All of that is available. The disconnect was it's just

1631
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 2: really hard, and so it's easier to say it's not

1632
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 2: worth it than to actually go try to figure it out.

1633
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 2: But once you kind of get your like your claws

1634
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:25,439
Speaker 2: stuck into something like that, it's hard to not want

1635
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:29,280
Speaker 2: to get better. And you know, because I think, and

1636
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:31,840
Speaker 2: this is not everybody, Like I have buddies who they're

1637
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,600
Speaker 2: like wired so vastly different from me. For deer, like,

1638
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 2: they want a very consistent, pretty easy place to hunt,

1639
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:41,280
Speaker 2: and that's like good for them. It's like they're working

1640
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:42,720
Speaker 2: hard in their life and they want to go sit

1641
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:44,280
Speaker 2: in a tree stand where they know if they put

1642
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 2: in their time, he's coming by. But for a lot

1643
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 2: of people, I think, you know, especially if you know,

1644
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:51,120
Speaker 2: if you're listening to this podcast or reading our articles

1645
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:53,160
Speaker 2: or whatever, you're you're looking to level up, like you're

1646
01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 2: looking to get this stuff figured out, and man, hunting

1647
01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:59,720
Speaker 2: a new place is one way to get you to

1648
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:03,000
Speaker 2: re frame your entire thought process on white tails and

1649
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:05,439
Speaker 2: kind of kind of get rid of that stuff that

1650
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 2: you believe that just isn't true and start figuring out

1651
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:12,040
Speaker 2: what is true. And like that process doesn't end, like

1652
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:13,680
Speaker 2: you start getting hooked on it and you're like, I

1653
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 2: want this more, and it just not only does it

1654
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:19,880
Speaker 2: help you become a better dear killer, it just makes

1655
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 2: deer hunting more enjoyable, like you're just problem solving.

1656
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 3: It's and for me too, in like a weird way,

1657
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 3: it like whenever that when I have that type of experience,

1658
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 3: I just feel way more connected to the to the moment.

1659
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:37,800
Speaker 3: I'm able to stay present more, if that makes sense,

1660
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:40,120
Speaker 3: And like that's been like kind of a mantra for

1661
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:42,600
Speaker 3: me this year is like you know, trying to be

1662
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 3: you know, more more present just in just in general,

1663
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:51,920
Speaker 3: like in my day to day life and hunting being aware,

1664
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:55,400
Speaker 3: you know, of my body's capabilities, you know my capabilities

1665
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 3: you know, as a as a human, as a hunter.

1666
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:00,840
Speaker 3: And I was just I kind of kind of I

1667
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:02,559
Speaker 3: don't want to say long. It seems like a weird

1668
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 3: dramatic word, but like I do long for that like

1669
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:09,200
Speaker 3: like primal connection. And to me, like whenever I go

1670
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 3: out and I get lost in these places and I

1671
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:12,599
Speaker 3: have to kind of figure it out, like that's when

1672
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 3: I feel connected, as weird as that might sound, like

1673
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:19,599
Speaker 3: knowing jack shit, is when I feel most connected, you know,

1674
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:23,600
Speaker 3: and so much so that like I've toyed around with

1675
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 3: the idea of like switching to a trad bow just

1676
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:29,240
Speaker 3: for the sole purpose of it being more primitive and

1677
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:31,400
Speaker 3: being more connected, and it becomes part of me and

1678
01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:33,559
Speaker 3: it's not there's not really anything mechanical, and there's nothing

1679
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:37,400
Speaker 3: wrong with I shoot a normal, you know, vertical bow.

1680
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:39,880
Speaker 3: You know it's and I'm not poo pooing that because

1681
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:41,760
Speaker 3: you know, it's hard enough to try to do it

1682
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:45,800
Speaker 3: with that. But like I'm yearning this, like this like

1683
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 3: primal connectivity that I seem to get whenever I'm in

1684
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:51,680
Speaker 3: places like Kansas and I feel like I'm out of

1685
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 3: my element a little bit and I'm on the ground,

1686
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:55,680
Speaker 3: you know. And that's the other part that I love

1687
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:57,360
Speaker 3: about when you go to these different places, they call

1688
01:14:57,439 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 3: for different tactics. You know. Kansas was a big switch

1689
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 3: me because like I really never hunted off on the

1690
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 3: ground much at all, you know, except whenever i'd hunt

1691
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:08,080
Speaker 3: like elk or mule deer or whatever. And so it

1692
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:11,000
Speaker 3: made me get proficient at being able to be on

1693
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:13,280
Speaker 3: the ground and hunt, you know. And so now it's

1694
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 3: like I don't shy away from those ground setups when

1695
01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 3: I'm in Pennsylvania. You know. It's like if there's a

1696
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:19,280
Speaker 3: good spot and nobody can get to it and there's

1697
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:21,479
Speaker 3: no trees, I'm like, hmm, this seems like a pretty

1698
01:15:21,479 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 3: good spot, right, Like, shouldn't be a lot of pressure

1699
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:26,920
Speaker 3: in here. And so it makes you kind of you know,

1700
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 3: basketball players would say, like, you know, makes you, you know,

1701
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:31,760
Speaker 3: get a bigger bag. You know. It's like you got

1702
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:33,400
Speaker 3: a lot more handle, you know what I mean, so

1703
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 3: to speak right, you know. And so that's the other

1704
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:37,479
Speaker 3: thing that I think it does not just from like

1705
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 3: an academic kind of like mental how you process this stuff,

1706
01:15:40,439 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 3: because it's new standpoint, but you start adding things to

1707
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:46,320
Speaker 3: your arsenal because if not, that hunt is going to

1708
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:48,519
Speaker 3: be really long and hard, you know, until you start

1709
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:51,160
Speaker 3: to try some of that stuff, and then you know

1710
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:53,000
Speaker 3: the other part for me is just it is just

1711
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 3: the connection to the to the challenge, you know, and

1712
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:57,920
Speaker 3: the personal connection to it. And it seems like the

1713
01:15:57,960 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 3: longer I go, the harder I want to make it,

1714
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:02,639
Speaker 3: because that's whenever I feel most connected and I feel

1715
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:04,680
Speaker 3: most present. Is whatever. Do you ever notice how when

1716
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:06,559
Speaker 3: you're doing something really hard, like you become a laser

1717
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:09,679
Speaker 3: focused like where you almost don't hear other stuff outside

1718
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:12,719
Speaker 3: of you, you know what I mean. And when something's

1719
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:15,960
Speaker 3: really easy or comes naturally right, you start to get

1720
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:19,640
Speaker 3: distracted by by things right. And I think that's the

1721
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:22,640
Speaker 3: one thing that I've really kind of come to understand

1722
01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:26,000
Speaker 3: and try to implement through like you knowing jiu jitsu,

1723
01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:28,559
Speaker 3: is that idea of like, when something is really really

1724
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:31,400
Speaker 3: tough and I have to really try, man, my focus

1725
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 3: is laser sharp, and whenever it's not and something's easy,

1726
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:39,360
Speaker 3: I don't perform as well, you know. So I meet

1727
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:42,760
Speaker 3: the challenge and then I will perform down to my

1728
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:47,120
Speaker 3: to my opponent. If you will right. My best roles

1729
01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:48,599
Speaker 3: in the gym are always against guys who are way

1730
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:50,840
Speaker 3: better than me. Not a surprise because I'm trying to

1731
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:53,800
Speaker 3: keep up right. Same thing with deer hunting. It's like

1732
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:56,640
Speaker 3: if I'm at some place it's lazy, you know, just

1733
01:16:56,640 --> 01:16:58,840
Speaker 3: say at home, I'm a worse deer hunter at home

1734
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:02,080
Speaker 3: than I am on the road. One hundred oh, man,

1735
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:02,599
Speaker 3: that is.

1736
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:07,599
Speaker 2: That is something you learn so fast when you travel

1737
01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:10,640
Speaker 2: to hunt, is how much you phone it in when

1738
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:13,840
Speaker 2: you're at a place you you think, you know, I mean,

1739
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:16,720
Speaker 2: it's it's crazy and you like you mentioned, you know,

1740
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:20,559
Speaker 2: kicking around the idea hunting with a trad bow and

1741
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:23,519
Speaker 2: you know hunting, you know, going to Kansas and all

1742
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:24,639
Speaker 2: of a sudden, I got to sit on the ground.

1743
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:26,519
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, I'm gonna I'm gonna decoy when

1744
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:28,680
Speaker 2: you you might never pick up a decoy in the

1745
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:30,800
Speaker 2: big woods of Pennsylvania right like it. Also, you're out

1746
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:33,400
Speaker 2: of your comfort zone. You're doing things different. I I

1747
01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:35,519
Speaker 2: hunted for a few years with a trad bow back

1748
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:38,679
Speaker 2: when I was in my twenties. And I'll tell you what, man,

1749
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 2: when you hear people talk about it and they go, well,

1750
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:44,519
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not shooting a bowl with training wheels

1751
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:46,680
Speaker 2: on it, like you always think. It's just tied to

1752
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 2: like the distance that you can be accurate, right, That's

1753
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:52,760
Speaker 2: part of it, you know, Like when you when you've

1754
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:54,519
Speaker 2: got to recurver a long bow up there, You're like,

1755
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 2: I want him at fifteen yards quartered away, and I

1756
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:01,000
Speaker 2: want I want that dream me shot, you know, like

1757
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:02,559
Speaker 2: you're not sitting on the edge of a bean field,

1758
01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:03,960
Speaker 2: range in it and go, Well, if he comes through

1759
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 2: that row, he's thirty five yards, I'll dial into that

1760
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:08,200
Speaker 2: and shoot him. It's a different thing that way. But

1761
01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:12,800
Speaker 2: what really messed me up, or at least forced me

1762
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:15,880
Speaker 2: to rethink my setups was if you've got a re

1763
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:19,160
Speaker 2: curve and it's you know, fifty five inches tip to

1764
01:18:19,240 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 2: tip or sixty inches whatever it is, that shot that

1765
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:25,200
Speaker 2: you would take behind the tree with a compound, you

1766
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:28,680
Speaker 2: don't have it. You can't get around there, or you know,

1767
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:30,720
Speaker 2: it depends how you hold. I can't. I can't my bow,

1768
01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:32,080
Speaker 2: so I take up a lot of space. I'm not

1769
01:18:32,120 --> 01:18:35,760
Speaker 2: shooting straight up and down or just like when you're

1770
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:37,280
Speaker 2: on the ground, like oh, you're gonna go get in

1771
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:39,599
Speaker 2: a ground blind and do this now? Good luck? Right,

1772
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:43,839
Speaker 2: can't do it? You just have to think, like, now,

1773
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:47,519
Speaker 2: how do I structure my setup so not only is

1774
01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:49,400
Speaker 2: he going to be there at that range, I'm gonna

1775
01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:51,679
Speaker 2: actually be able to draw on him and shoot him.

1776
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:54,799
Speaker 2: It's a different thing, and it I mean, I still

1777
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:56,719
Speaker 2: I haven't done it in a long time. I'm gonna

1778
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:59,280
Speaker 2: go back eventually, probably when my job isn't tied to

1779
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:06,280
Speaker 2: killing stuff. But it forced me to look at everything differently,

1780
01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:08,960
Speaker 2: and I didn't think it would. I've kind of seen

1781
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:11,200
Speaker 2: the same thing taking my daughters when they cross bow hunt.

1782
01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:15,080
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's such an advantage that now it sort

1783
01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:17,360
Speaker 2: of takes away like three layers of difficulty. Would you

1784
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:20,560
Speaker 2: don't have to worry about drawing? Okay, Like you know

1785
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:22,559
Speaker 2: what I mean. So that goes a different way, but

1786
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:26,600
Speaker 2: all of it forces you to think, like, man, you

1787
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:30,760
Speaker 2: know what, I was comfortable with one little variation and

1788
01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:34,160
Speaker 2: weapon or one little variation in like hunting styles. Now

1789
01:19:34,160 --> 01:19:36,960
Speaker 2: you've got a problem. You've got a problem solve in

1790
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 2: a totally different way, and it, like you said, it

1791
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:41,639
Speaker 2: brings you into the moment. And I man, I think

1792
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:43,200
Speaker 2: that stuff's important.

1793
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:45,640
Speaker 3: One hundred percent is man, and it's like, you know,

1794
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:47,519
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's you know, getting older or

1795
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:51,600
Speaker 3: whatever it is, but you know, the longer I do this,

1796
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:54,640
Speaker 3: and and maybe for me too, like this year, you know,

1797
01:19:55,080 --> 01:19:57,080
Speaker 3: I kind of had a focus of some other stuff

1798
01:19:57,080 --> 01:19:59,519
Speaker 3: that I was, you know, focusing on trying to trying

1799
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:01,680
Speaker 3: to get better at, and I think it allowed me

1800
01:20:01,720 --> 01:20:04,800
Speaker 3: to kind of look at hunting a little bit differently.

1801
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:07,880
Speaker 3: I think for a while I was getting wrapped up.

1802
01:20:08,360 --> 01:20:12,759
Speaker 3: You know, it was all consuming. And I'm not saying

1803
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:15,160
Speaker 3: it like that. You know, you shouldn't be dedicated and

1804
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:17,439
Speaker 3: passionate about it because I love I love bow hunting, right,

1805
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:22,719
Speaker 3: but there's also a part of like you sometimes need

1806
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:26,479
Speaker 3: things that pull you away slightly that way whenever you

1807
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:29,599
Speaker 3: get in it, that the passion and everything is there,

1808
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:31,920
Speaker 3: right because you and I've talked about this, like there's

1809
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:33,880
Speaker 3: parts of this that suck, you know what I mean,

1810
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:37,200
Speaker 3: there's parts of this that are a grind, right, And

1811
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:39,800
Speaker 3: to pretend that it's all rainbows and unicorns and stuff

1812
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:41,759
Speaker 3: like that, it just is a is a false narrative.

1813
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:45,000
Speaker 3: And I was finding myself there where I was like,

1814
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:47,719
Speaker 3: I love this stuff, but like it's starting to wear

1815
01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:49,960
Speaker 3: on me a little bit because I do like hard hunts,

1816
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:51,960
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. I do like the challenging stuff,

1817
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:55,040
Speaker 3: and that's the part that I love. But you know,

1818
01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 3: there's a part of me that's like I'm like, okay,

1819
01:20:57,439 --> 01:20:59,400
Speaker 3: this is this is getting brutal, you know what I mean. Like,

1820
01:21:00,360 --> 01:21:02,160
Speaker 3: and so I had to kind of you know, you know,

1821
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:03,880
Speaker 3: I've talked like I started training a lot of jiu

1822
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:05,240
Speaker 3: jitsu and that's the thing that kind of took me

1823
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 3: away from it, not away from it, but allowed me

1824
01:21:07,439 --> 01:21:09,160
Speaker 3: to kind of divert my attention to where it's like

1825
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:14,760
Speaker 3: I wasn't so obsessed, and that distance actually gave me

1826
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:17,680
Speaker 3: more clarity, you know. And like you'll hear a lot

1827
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:19,840
Speaker 3: about this type of stuff and like leadership stuff, and

1828
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 3: it applies whenever you're talking about deer hunting. It's like

1829
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:25,439
Speaker 3: whenever things are kind of getting rough or whatever, it's

1830
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:27,720
Speaker 3: like you need to detach and assess, right, you need

1831
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:29,559
Speaker 3: to be able to step back from yourself and almost

1832
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 3: look at yourself as though you're like a ghost, you know,

1833
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:35,160
Speaker 3: and go like what's going on here? Like what part

1834
01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:38,479
Speaker 3: of this is the part that you don't get joy

1835
01:21:38,479 --> 01:21:42,040
Speaker 3: out of any longer right, and then define what that is.

1836
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:44,760
Speaker 3: Not saying that there was loss of joy in in

1837
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:47,559
Speaker 3: deer hunting or whatever, but like what aspects were starting

1838
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:49,040
Speaker 3: to grind on me, you know what I mean to

1839
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 3: make me, you know, not love it as much as

1840
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:53,800
Speaker 3: I maybe did three years ago. And it was that

1841
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:55,880
Speaker 3: assessment where I was like, Okay, cool, let's just cut

1842
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:59,120
Speaker 3: that shit out and awesome, and now it's gone, you know.

1843
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:02,840
Speaker 3: And the part that I cut out was it was

1844
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:07,080
Speaker 3: actually a personal thing where I felt compelled that I

1845
01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:10,559
Speaker 3: needed to be always doing something for it, otherwise I

1846
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:15,400
Speaker 3: was slacking, right, And it was that idea that and

1847
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:18,840
Speaker 3: then I what I realized was was that I was

1848
01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:23,040
Speaker 3: doing that because I felt like these external pressures of like,

1849
01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:25,320
Speaker 3: you know, whether it was because I have a hunting

1850
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:27,360
Speaker 3: podcast or whatever the case, I don't know exactly where

1851
01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:30,120
Speaker 3: they came from. But I was like, that's just no

1852
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:32,879
Speaker 3: one's expecting me to do that. I'm doing that to myself.

1853
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:36,760
Speaker 3: And so once I removed that, you know, and was like,

1854
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:39,400
Speaker 3: I'll do this whenever I on my time, when I

1855
01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:40,960
Speaker 3: feel like it, and whenever I want to do it,

1856
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:43,040
Speaker 3: as opposed to whenever I feel obligated to do it,

1857
01:22:43,479 --> 01:22:45,400
Speaker 3: you know, And that was really what And so it

1858
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:47,200
Speaker 3: wasn't like I spent any less time doing it or

1859
01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:50,400
Speaker 3: thinking about it. It's just like I allowed myself to

1860
01:22:50,439 --> 01:22:53,080
Speaker 3: be free to do it whenever the mood struck, and

1861
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 3: it brought the joy back to it again, you know.

1862
01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:56,920
Speaker 3: I mean. And so for me, that was like the

1863
01:22:57,000 --> 01:22:58,439
Speaker 3: idea of like the trad bow and stuff like that,

1864
01:22:58,479 --> 01:23:01,639
Speaker 3: because I was like, you know, I don't care if

1865
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:04,559
Speaker 3: someone thinks that, you know, I'm killing something smaller than

1866
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:06,120
Speaker 3: I should because I'm using a trad bow, or I

1867
01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:07,920
Speaker 3: blew an opportunity because I'm using a trad bow. It's

1868
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:10,720
Speaker 3: like I want the experience, don't care what the other

1869
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:13,840
Speaker 3: person thinks, you know what I mean. It's like and

1870
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:15,320
Speaker 3: and so and that was kind of like, you know,

1871
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:17,720
Speaker 3: it was good for me, like to kind of detach

1872
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:21,479
Speaker 3: train jiu jitsu. That's also mental shift too, that really helps.

1873
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:24,680
Speaker 3: And now it's like I'm like I was sending you

1874
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:26,040
Speaker 3: dear pictures man, It's like I'm geeked.

1875
01:23:26,040 --> 01:23:26,160
Speaker 2: Man.

1876
01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:28,280
Speaker 3: It's like like this season I'm like super pumped for.

1877
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:30,639
Speaker 3: Like I'm just like probably more excited for this upcoming

1878
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:32,599
Speaker 3: season than I've been probably in the past two.

1879
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:35,840
Speaker 2: Dude, I love that. And I think you know when

1880
01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:39,880
Speaker 2: you talk about you when you start to feel that

1881
01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:43,080
Speaker 2: this stuff sucks and it starts to be not fun.

1882
01:23:43,200 --> 01:23:44,760
Speaker 2: I mean, And if you're listening to this and you

1883
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:47,920
Speaker 2: haven't hit that stage yet, just wait, it's coming. Yeah,

1884
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:50,000
Speaker 2: it's just sitting right up over the hill waiting for

1885
01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:53,240
Speaker 2: you to walk over. Man, it's coming. And for me,

1886
01:23:54,280 --> 01:23:57,479
Speaker 2: you know, a change of scenery does me really well,

1887
01:23:57,479 --> 01:24:00,760
Speaker 2: like a new kind of challenge, but also just just

1888
01:24:00,920 --> 01:24:04,840
Speaker 2: learning to trust the process because we always think like

1889
01:24:05,720 --> 01:24:08,040
Speaker 2: if only I do this, or if only I do that,

1890
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:11,160
Speaker 2: or if like it's going to happen, and the truth

1891
01:24:11,240 --> 01:24:16,439
Speaker 2: is it's probably not. Like you're probably going to keep

1892
01:24:16,479 --> 01:24:19,800
Speaker 2: failing no matter what. But if you learn, just like

1893
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:22,200
Speaker 2: anything like working out or anything like, if you learn

1894
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:24,599
Speaker 2: the long game process and you go there's a lot

1895
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:27,040
Speaker 2: of suck built into this, but the reward is coming,

1896
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:30,960
Speaker 2: then it's like it's easier to just go, Okay, I know,

1897
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:32,800
Speaker 2: I gotta do this. I gotta run these cameras, or

1898
01:24:32,840 --> 01:24:34,000
Speaker 2: I gotta go look at this, or I got a

1899
01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:36,760
Speaker 2: glass for the night, or I like, I gotta do

1900
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:40,840
Speaker 2: the process. I gotta give myself that shot because if

1901
01:24:40,840 --> 01:24:44,280
Speaker 2: I do that, like, eventually, the reward's gonna come, and

1902
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:46,680
Speaker 2: it might not be seven bucks this year, it might

1903
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:49,920
Speaker 2: be one or two good encounters or whatever. It might

1904
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:51,880
Speaker 2: lead you two seasons down the road where you kill

1905
01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:53,280
Speaker 2: three of them in three states and you have an

1906
01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:56,960
Speaker 2: amazing season and then you start over like but but

1907
01:24:57,040 --> 01:24:59,800
Speaker 2: you learn that it's like this is what it takes.

1908
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:02,559
Speaker 2: It's the same thing like if you if you struggle

1909
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:05,360
Speaker 2: with like depression and you're like, I gotta figure out

1910
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:08,559
Speaker 2: a way to manage this better. One of the things

1911
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:11,080
Speaker 2: a lot of people learn is I need to move

1912
01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:14,240
Speaker 2: my body and wear myself out. Like it's not the

1913
01:25:14,320 --> 01:25:17,120
Speaker 2: only answer a lot of times. But it's like I

1914
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:19,360
Speaker 2: don't want to run. I don't want to run five

1915
01:25:19,439 --> 01:25:22,680
Speaker 2: days a week, but I know that sucky part is

1916
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:25,200
Speaker 2: going to make me feel better overall and be a

1917
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:27,400
Speaker 2: better person, Like I don't have a choice, Like I

1918
01:25:27,479 --> 01:25:30,400
Speaker 2: gotta trust that process to get myself into a better place.

1919
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:33,640
Speaker 2: Deer hunting is exactly the same. Like if you're not

1920
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:37,040
Speaker 2: hunting a banging property where you can just count on

1921
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:40,479
Speaker 2: them showing up, you got to figure out that process

1922
01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:44,160
Speaker 2: of scouting and you know, scout to learn how to

1923
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:47,600
Speaker 2: hunt specific spots, not just find the deer. The process

1924
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:50,920
Speaker 2: will deliver for you eventually, and once it starts to

1925
01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:54,240
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, at least I have a template. When

1926
01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:56,519
Speaker 2: I start veering off and I start feeling really shitty

1927
01:25:56,600 --> 01:25:58,519
Speaker 2: or like I need that break or whatever, that's fine,

1928
01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:00,360
Speaker 2: you can return to the process.

1929
01:26:01,320 --> 01:26:04,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, there's no shortcuts, right, this is It's

1930
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:07,360
Speaker 3: one of those things that's very akin to like working out,

1931
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:11,200
Speaker 3: running jiu jitsu or whatever it is, where there's not

1932
01:26:11,439 --> 01:26:14,320
Speaker 3: like a you know, pass, go collect two hundred dollars

1933
01:26:14,360 --> 01:26:15,960
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, like everything's good to go.

1934
01:26:16,160 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 3: You know, it's it just doesn't happen that way. It'd

1935
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:22,080
Speaker 3: be nice if it did, you know, But it's just

1936
01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:24,360
Speaker 3: not the it's just not the truth of the truth

1937
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:25,920
Speaker 3: of the matter. And there's a lot of suck that's

1938
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:29,519
Speaker 3: built into it. And sometimes you said, you know, you

1939
01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:31,599
Speaker 3: mentioned something there about scouting, and I was just thinking.

1940
01:26:31,640 --> 01:26:34,679
Speaker 3: I was like, sometimes you have to scout to learn

1941
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:37,160
Speaker 3: how to scout to where you're not going to do

1942
01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:38,920
Speaker 3: it right the first time, you know what I mean,

1943
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:41,320
Speaker 3: or the second time or the third time. You know,

1944
01:26:41,400 --> 01:26:43,840
Speaker 3: it's going to take doing it over and over again

1945
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:46,360
Speaker 3: to where you start to see like where the shortcomings

1946
01:26:46,360 --> 01:26:49,360
Speaker 3: are right. And sometimes you're fortunate you have someone who's

1947
01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:50,880
Speaker 3: close to you or that you know who can point

1948
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:53,639
Speaker 3: your shortcomings out to kind of help you expedite that

1949
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:57,439
Speaker 3: part of it. If not, you'll still get there. It

1950
01:26:57,520 --> 01:27:00,200
Speaker 3: might just take you a little longer, and that doesn't matter.

1951
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:02,160
Speaker 3: I think people get you know, hung up also like

1952
01:27:02,200 --> 01:27:03,800
Speaker 3: in the idea that like it has to happen within

1953
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:06,720
Speaker 3: a certain amount of time, you know, And that was

1954
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:09,160
Speaker 3: probably like the biggest learning lesson with the training stuff

1955
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 3: that I've been doing is that people don't advance the

1956
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:15,000
Speaker 3: same rate. There's a lot of reasons why people even

1957
01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:19,719
Speaker 3: if you commit two people commit, you know, jiu jitsu

1958
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:22,719
Speaker 3: at the same time, same body size, same strength, same everything,

1959
01:27:22,960 --> 01:27:26,160
Speaker 3: and they train the same amount of days, doesn't mean

1960
01:27:26,160 --> 01:27:29,000
Speaker 3: they're going to advance the same rate. And so you

1961
01:27:29,040 --> 01:27:31,160
Speaker 3: can't get hung up on like this person that you

1962
01:27:31,200 --> 01:27:34,120
Speaker 3: started with or that's around your skill level or whatever

1963
01:27:34,240 --> 01:27:38,160
Speaker 3: is advancing more quickly than you. Right, It's all about

1964
01:27:38,280 --> 01:27:41,040
Speaker 3: your your personal journey, and it's interesting once you start

1965
01:27:41,040 --> 01:27:43,080
Speaker 3: focusing on that journey, all of a sudden the advancing

1966
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:45,720
Speaker 3: happens like I won't say overnight, but all of a

1967
01:27:45,720 --> 01:27:48,000
Speaker 3: sudden you start to see it like it comes in spades.

1968
01:27:48,439 --> 01:27:50,160
Speaker 3: And I feel like hunting's kind of the same way.

1969
01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:54,640
Speaker 3: Whereas when you start, if you're comparing your journey to

1970
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:58,360
Speaker 3: somebody else, you're always going to lose because you don't

1971
01:27:58,360 --> 01:28:01,880
Speaker 3: have the same Even if everything you think, everything you

1972
01:28:01,880 --> 01:28:03,920
Speaker 3: can kind of put your finger on, is the same,

1973
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:07,360
Speaker 3: it's not the same. You know your your inputs if

1974
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:11,080
Speaker 3: you will right, and so you're always going to feel

1975
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:14,120
Speaker 3: like you're not enough when you're measuring yourself against someone

1976
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:16,439
Speaker 3: else because they're advancing more quickly than you, or they're

1977
01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:18,880
Speaker 3: achieving more than you are. But if you frame it

1978
01:28:19,400 --> 01:28:24,320
Speaker 3: in am I atter deer hunter this year than I

1979
01:28:24,400 --> 01:28:27,000
Speaker 3: was last year? Then you're moving in the right direction.

1980
01:28:27,439 --> 01:28:29,080
Speaker 3: And then that's all you need to be worried about

1981
01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:32,200
Speaker 3: is just what is your journey? How are you being fulfilled?

1982
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:35,479
Speaker 3: How are you enjoying the process. What parts of the

1983
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:37,720
Speaker 3: process don't you like? Then don't do them? You know

1984
01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:39,360
Speaker 3: what I mean. You don't have to do you know

1985
01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:42,559
Speaker 3: what I mean. It's just you find what works for

1986
01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:44,320
Speaker 3: you and you focus on the path that you're kind

1987
01:28:44,360 --> 01:28:46,920
Speaker 3: of creating and not the other paths people are, you know,

1988
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 3: creating for themselves. That's a losing battle, you know. And

1989
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:54,280
Speaker 3: once you start doing that, you know, it's all of

1990
01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:57,559
Speaker 3: a sudden the amount of joy you would expect is there.

1991
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:01,000
Speaker 3: And then something funny happens as that all of a

1992
01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:02,280
Speaker 3: sudden the results show up too.

1993
01:29:02,520 --> 01:29:07,200
Speaker 2: Yep, dude, you start not taking it so seriously and

1994
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:10,680
Speaker 2: you start having fun. The big bucks are dying and

1995
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:12,960
Speaker 2: it's a hard place to get to. Man.

1996
01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:16,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's and it's not a it's not a not caring,

1997
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:18,760
Speaker 3: you know, because I think that sometimes people get it

1998
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:22,400
Speaker 3: misinterpreted with like having fun and not caring. It's like, no,

1999
01:29:22,479 --> 01:29:25,360
Speaker 3: you care, but it's like you don't live and die

2000
01:29:26,160 --> 01:29:29,640
Speaker 3: with the results the end result, you know, you you

2001
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:33,920
Speaker 3: appreciate the journey. Yep, you know. And that's you know,

2002
01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:36,880
Speaker 3: like you could equate like big bucks to like a

2003
01:29:36,920 --> 01:29:40,240
Speaker 3: black belt. Right. It's like there's a saying, you know

2004
01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:43,040
Speaker 3: in jiu jitsu that anyone whoever wanted to become a

2005
01:29:43,080 --> 01:29:46,479
Speaker 3: black belt did because all itever is is takes his

2006
01:29:46,640 --> 01:29:49,519
Speaker 3: time and commitment, right, Anyone who ever wanted to kill

2007
01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:53,479
Speaker 3: a booner really everyone to kill a booner did right,

2008
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:56,720
Speaker 3: because it just took time and and focus on that thing,

2009
01:29:57,320 --> 01:30:00,920
Speaker 3: and eventually it'll happen, you know, And so I so

2010
01:30:01,080 --> 01:30:02,760
Speaker 3: that's kind of like what my new approach has been

2011
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:03,400
Speaker 3: has been.

2012
01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:08,439
Speaker 2: That My my new approach is mostly just take my

2013
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:11,320
Speaker 2: kids and then hunt when I can and shoot whatever

2014
01:30:11,439 --> 01:30:15,400
Speaker 2: watch by and I freaking love it. Although I'll tell

2015
01:30:15,439 --> 01:30:17,400
Speaker 2: you what, man, You know, like we talked about like

2016
01:30:17,479 --> 01:30:21,240
Speaker 2: traveling in new places and scouting new stuff when and

2017
01:30:21,280 --> 01:30:23,320
Speaker 2: then you know, you were just talking about like finding

2018
01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:28,160
Speaker 2: the things you enjoy there. It's it's not like you're

2019
01:30:28,200 --> 01:30:31,640
Speaker 2: going to find styles of scouting or find some kind

2020
01:30:31,680 --> 01:30:33,360
Speaker 2: of terrain that you just love to hunt and that's

2021
01:30:33,360 --> 01:30:37,320
Speaker 2: the end, because they'll drift away or over time something

2022
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:39,600
Speaker 2: will be like I'm not that into this anymore. I

2023
01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:41,439
Speaker 2: need something else. So like you have to understand that

2024
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:45,320
Speaker 2: this is it's like all happiness, right. It's a moving target, man,

2025
01:30:45,400 --> 01:30:47,439
Speaker 2: Like you hit it today and you won't hit it tomorrow.

2026
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:51,040
Speaker 2: But you got to keep looking. And I found that,

2027
01:30:51,120 --> 01:30:55,120
Speaker 2: you know. For I hunted a lot of public land

2028
01:30:55,160 --> 01:30:58,840
Speaker 2: for like a decade, like a bunch of states had

2029
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:01,760
Speaker 2: a good run. But I was burned Man. Like I

2030
01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:04,559
Speaker 2: was like, I'm I'm sick of drive, and I'm sick

2031
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:07,559
Speaker 2: of camping. I'm sick of like the pressure. And you know,

2032
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:09,120
Speaker 2: for the last couple of years with Meat Eater, I've

2033
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:11,920
Speaker 2: had to save tags and it's been different seasons than

2034
01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:14,760
Speaker 2: I'm used to, and so I was like, this is

2035
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:16,760
Speaker 2: kind of a relief. I don't feel the pressure to

2036
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:19,160
Speaker 2: go kill a bunch of stuff on public land. And

2037
01:31:19,680 --> 01:31:22,519
Speaker 2: what I found was that's actually kind of what I

2038
01:31:22,640 --> 01:31:25,200
Speaker 2: need to be happy. Like I went to South Dakota

2039
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:28,400
Speaker 2: and we filmed a hunt with the Element Boys the

2040
01:31:28,400 --> 01:31:31,360
Speaker 2: buck Truck deal and didn't go that well. I had

2041
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:33,080
Speaker 2: a pretty decent hunt, you know, I had one really

2042
01:31:33,120 --> 01:31:35,719
Speaker 2: good encounter at the end, but I told my wife

2043
01:31:35,720 --> 01:31:37,639
Speaker 2: when I got home, I'm like, I'm going back without

2044
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:39,880
Speaker 2: a camera guy, and I'm going to go figure this

2045
01:31:39,960 --> 01:31:42,639
Speaker 2: out because I just needed it. And I went back

2046
01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:44,519
Speaker 2: and I had another you know, one hundred and thirty

2047
01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:48,240
Speaker 2: eenter come in super close. Screwed that up, but I

2048
01:31:48,360 --> 01:31:51,559
Speaker 2: left it going. Even though I didn't film my tag,

2049
01:31:51,720 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 2: I left it going like that was what I needed,

2050
01:31:54,160 --> 01:31:57,040
Speaker 2: Like it just it made me feel good, like I'm like, Okay,

2051
01:31:57,280 --> 01:31:59,559
Speaker 2: I got to have that kind of thing mixed in there,

2052
01:31:59,680 --> 01:32:03,479
Speaker 2: other wise the whole thing doesn't work for me, right,

2053
01:32:03,600 --> 01:32:05,840
Speaker 2: figuring the more the more of that stuff you figure out,

2054
01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:07,920
Speaker 2: the better it is to just go okay, Like, man,

2055
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:09,759
Speaker 2: I'm veering off a little bit. I'm in the ditch,

2056
01:32:10,040 --> 01:32:12,040
Speaker 2: like I'm in the room bar, but like I need

2057
01:32:12,040 --> 01:32:14,080
Speaker 2: to correct here and get back up onto the road.

2058
01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:18,519
Speaker 2: And if you know where that is, it's awesome to

2059
01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:20,559
Speaker 2: like try that stuff and figure out new things because

2060
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:22,040
Speaker 2: you always kind of go okay, like I know where

2061
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:24,960
Speaker 2: my true north is, Like I know what baseline. I

2062
01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:28,800
Speaker 2: need to just enjoy this and always find what I'm

2063
01:32:28,840 --> 01:32:31,400
Speaker 2: looking for out there. I think that's so like that matters.

2064
01:32:31,960 --> 01:32:34,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's funny that you know, people will

2065
01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:40,760
Speaker 3: you know, kind of jump around or experience different things,

2066
01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:42,400
Speaker 3: Like they would never want to eat the same food

2067
01:32:42,439 --> 01:32:46,000
Speaker 3: every day. We'll use that as an example, right, And

2068
01:32:46,400 --> 01:32:48,840
Speaker 3: so when you think about like how you kind of

2069
01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:52,280
Speaker 3: find like happiness or joy and something like that, to

2070
01:32:52,439 --> 01:32:55,000
Speaker 3: expect to find it consistently in the same spot and

2071
01:32:55,160 --> 01:32:59,800
Speaker 3: deer hunting, you know, seems crazy if you think about it, right,

2072
01:33:00,160 --> 01:33:02,040
Speaker 3: you didn't you don't find that if someone said, like

2073
01:33:02,760 --> 01:33:05,360
Speaker 3: even like even when I was a musician, was doing

2074
01:33:05,360 --> 01:33:07,120
Speaker 3: that right, and that was kind of like my gig

2075
01:33:07,720 --> 01:33:09,240
Speaker 3: there got and that was all I ever wanted to

2076
01:33:09,240 --> 01:33:10,640
Speaker 3: do when I was a kid growing up, Like that

2077
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:12,920
Speaker 3: was it, like that was my passion and I finally

2078
01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:16,040
Speaker 3: got to do it, you know, eight nine, ten years

2079
01:33:16,040 --> 01:33:17,840
Speaker 3: of doing it, you know, all of a sudden it

2080
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:20,880
Speaker 3: became a job, you know, and yeah, I still enjoyed

2081
01:33:20,880 --> 01:33:23,240
Speaker 3: it. It was about as lacks of daisical you know, loose

2082
01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:25,600
Speaker 3: call loose job as you could possibly have, you know,

2083
01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:29,439
Speaker 3: being a delinquent, but there was an element of work

2084
01:33:29,479 --> 01:33:31,479
Speaker 3: to it that started sucking the joy out of it,

2085
01:33:31,680 --> 01:33:33,320
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, because it became the thing

2086
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:35,280
Speaker 3: that you had to do, and it was a certain

2087
01:33:35,320 --> 01:33:36,960
Speaker 3: type of music and I was expected to write a

2088
01:33:37,000 --> 01:33:38,840
Speaker 3: certain way because that was what we were, you know,

2089
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:40,599
Speaker 3: had a record deal for or whatever. That was what

2090
01:33:40,640 --> 01:33:42,559
Speaker 3: you know, the producer was expecting or the management was expecting,

2091
01:33:42,640 --> 01:33:45,080
Speaker 3: or whatever the case was. And so it's crazy to

2092
01:33:45,080 --> 01:33:47,639
Speaker 3: think that hunting is not the same. And that's something

2093
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:49,320
Speaker 3: that I've kind of you know realized and kind of

2094
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:53,200
Speaker 3: been spending more time paying attention to because you know,

2095
01:33:53,240 --> 01:33:54,920
Speaker 3: you asked me when we first started, like you know

2096
01:33:55,120 --> 01:33:57,439
Speaker 3: about private land or any private land or whatever any

2097
01:33:57,680 --> 01:34:00,439
Speaker 3: family owns some back back home. And I've been thinking

2098
01:34:00,439 --> 01:34:03,080
Speaker 3: a lot recently, like why am I not going back

2099
01:34:03,080 --> 01:34:06,000
Speaker 3: and spending time with my dad, like hunting his property

2100
01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:07,920
Speaker 3: with him, you know what I mean? Like is it

2101
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:09,840
Speaker 3: because I feel so compelled that I've got to do

2102
01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:12,400
Speaker 3: this public land thing because that's what I really like

2103
01:34:12,479 --> 01:34:16,599
Speaker 3: to do, Or should I be hunting with the old

2104
01:34:16,640 --> 01:34:19,400
Speaker 3: man because that will actually that will bring me a

2105
01:34:19,400 --> 01:34:21,720
Speaker 3: different type of joy that I probably haven't had since

2106
01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:24,880
Speaker 3: I was a kid, you know. And he wants to

2107
01:34:24,880 --> 01:34:27,120
Speaker 3: go do an elk hunt, and I don't like using outfitters,

2108
01:34:27,200 --> 01:34:28,800
Speaker 3: and he only wants to go use an outfitter because

2109
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:30,439
Speaker 3: he's an older fellow. He wants the comforts, you know

2110
01:34:30,439 --> 01:34:31,640
Speaker 3: what I mean. And we've kind of put it off

2111
01:34:31,680 --> 01:34:33,400
Speaker 3: because I'm like, ah, Dad, it's just it's to a

2112
01:34:33,400 --> 01:34:35,120
Speaker 3: public land piece. I got a buddy who's got like

2113
01:34:35,160 --> 01:34:37,600
Speaker 3: a cab and we can stay at you know. And

2114
01:34:37,640 --> 01:34:39,920
Speaker 3: then I'm thinking, like, dude, you're an asshole, Like your

2115
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:41,400
Speaker 3: dad wants to go do an elk hunt with you

2116
01:34:41,479 --> 01:34:45,640
Speaker 3: at some like you know, outfitter like get off your

2117
01:34:45,640 --> 01:34:47,599
Speaker 3: wallet and spend a couple of bucks to go make

2118
01:34:47,640 --> 01:34:49,360
Speaker 3: a memory, you know what I mean, And don't be

2119
01:34:49,400 --> 01:34:53,040
Speaker 3: a douche, you know what I mean. And so it's like,

2120
01:34:53,240 --> 01:34:55,240
Speaker 3: and you know, I'm being honest with people that are

2121
01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:57,719
Speaker 3: listening here, It's like I've been very selfish in that regard,

2122
01:34:57,920 --> 01:35:00,720
Speaker 3: you know. And to me, I think when I think

2123
01:35:00,720 --> 01:35:03,519
Speaker 3: about things, part of what was driving me a little

2124
01:35:03,560 --> 01:35:05,680
Speaker 3: crazy whenever I did that step back and kind of

2125
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:09,200
Speaker 3: reevaluate was like, I recognize the selfishness that I had

2126
01:35:09,600 --> 01:35:11,840
Speaker 3: in this and that was the other part that was

2127
01:35:11,840 --> 01:35:13,400
Speaker 3: starting to suck the joy out of it for me.

2128
01:35:14,000 --> 01:35:17,040
Speaker 3: And so it was that commitment to like, man, spend

2129
01:35:17,040 --> 01:35:19,880
Speaker 3: time with the buddies, you know, go hunt with your dad,

2130
01:35:20,840 --> 01:35:22,080
Speaker 3: even if it's a good weather day and you know

2131
01:35:22,120 --> 01:35:23,840
Speaker 3: there's a deer somewhere that you could try to go kill.

2132
01:35:23,880 --> 01:35:25,240
Speaker 3: Like still go hunt with the old mand even though

2133
01:35:25,240 --> 01:35:26,880
Speaker 3: you're probably not gonna see jack shit, you know what

2134
01:35:26,920 --> 01:35:30,320
Speaker 3: I mean. Like, So it's just stuff like that, you know.

2135
01:35:30,400 --> 01:35:32,040
Speaker 3: And I don't know if it's like being an adult,

2136
01:35:32,240 --> 01:35:34,040
Speaker 3: you know, or you know, being a parent with a

2137
01:35:34,080 --> 01:35:37,400
Speaker 3: teenage daughter or or what you know, because I'm thinking

2138
01:35:37,439 --> 01:35:39,840
Speaker 3: in the back of my mind, you know, even if

2139
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:43,040
Speaker 3: it's not hunting related, like when she's my age, and

2140
01:35:43,120 --> 01:35:45,479
Speaker 3: I hope she would make the choice to spend time

2141
01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:49,080
Speaker 3: with me, you know, and and so I need to

2142
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:54,920
Speaker 3: kind of I need to give her the roadmap for that.

2143
01:35:55,520 --> 01:35:57,280
Speaker 3: She needs to see me do it. She needs to

2144
01:35:57,280 --> 01:36:00,439
Speaker 3: see me be committed to spending time with my dad,

2145
01:36:00,720 --> 01:36:04,000
Speaker 3: you know, as we're both getting older and stuff like that.

2146
01:36:04,439 --> 01:36:06,200
Speaker 3: And I know that Mark's been doing like this series

2147
01:36:06,240 --> 01:36:07,760
Speaker 3: on parenting and stuff like that, so I don't feel

2148
01:36:07,760 --> 01:36:09,080
Speaker 3: completely out of place mentioning that.

2149
01:36:11,200 --> 01:36:14,800
Speaker 2: Well. I mean, it just changes you man, you know,

2150
01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:16,960
Speaker 2: taking your kids hunting or you know, you get to

2151
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:18,840
Speaker 2: a certain age and you realize, like the big buck

2152
01:36:18,880 --> 01:36:23,040
Speaker 2: things kind of dumb. It's way overrated, It's not that important.

2153
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:25,479
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, I mean there's just more to the

2154
01:36:25,560 --> 01:36:27,720
Speaker 2: experience in that, and you kind of realize how much

2155
01:36:27,720 --> 01:36:29,680
Speaker 2: of a gift this white tail hunting thing really is.

2156
01:36:30,600 --> 01:36:32,479
Speaker 2: I think that's a great way to end this. Man,

2157
01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:35,479
Speaker 2: Where can everybody find your podcast, the website, all that

2158
01:36:35,479 --> 01:36:35,960
Speaker 2: good stuff.

2159
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:39,160
Speaker 3: Social Yeah, it's a truth from the stand on all

2160
01:36:39,200 --> 01:36:42,960
Speaker 3: the different social platforms and wherever you like to waste

2161
01:36:42,960 --> 01:36:46,960
Speaker 3: your time running down the rabbit Hole on YouTube. It's

2162
01:36:47,000 --> 01:36:48,960
Speaker 3: a truth from the stand your hunting podcast. All the

2163
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:52,160
Speaker 3: places that you find, all the places you'll find podcasts awesome.

2164
01:36:52,200 --> 01:36:55,040
Speaker 2: I appreciate it, buddy. That's it for this week, folks.

2165
01:36:55,080 --> 01:36:57,160
Speaker 2: Be sure to tune in next week for more white

2166
01:36:57,200 --> 01:36:59,800
Speaker 2: tail goodness. This has been Wired to Hunt and I'm

2167
01:36:59,840 --> 01:37:02,960
Speaker 2: your guest host, Tony Peterson. As always, I just want

2168
01:37:02,960 --> 01:37:04,800
Speaker 2: to thank you so much for your support and for

2169
01:37:04,840 --> 01:37:07,839
Speaker 2: sticking with us through I don't know how many hundreds

2170
01:37:07,880 --> 01:37:11,559
Speaker 2: episodes now it's bananas, but we really do appreciate that

2171
01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:13,800
Speaker 2: you guys show up every week and you give us

2172
01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:16,200
Speaker 2: the support, so thank you for that. If you want

2173
01:37:16,200 --> 01:37:19,839
Speaker 2: more whitetail content, head on over to the mediat dot com.

2174
01:37:19,960 --> 01:37:22,160
Speaker 2: You can see articles that I've written. You can see

2175
01:37:22,240 --> 01:37:26,920
Speaker 2: articles by Mark, Alex Gilstrom, Dylan trmp, Bomartonic, whole bunch

2176
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:29,880
Speaker 2: of white tail Killers. Tony Hansen's in there in the

2177
01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:32,519
Speaker 2: mix too, or you can you know, if you have

2178
01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:35,000
Speaker 2: a short attention span or you're just like watching stuff,

2179
01:37:35,360 --> 01:37:38,960
Speaker 2: you can check out The Buck Truck, a new series

2180
01:37:39,000 --> 01:37:41,360
Speaker 2: that we dropped pretty recently that was produced by the

2181
01:37:41,400 --> 01:37:44,800
Speaker 2: Element Boys who are absolute public land whitetail killers as well.

2182
01:37:45,439 --> 01:37:47,519
Speaker 2: If you like hunting, if you like phishing, there's some

2183
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:50,400
Speaker 2: content there for you that you're gonna love somehow somewhere.

2184
01:37:50,479 --> 01:37:58,040
Speaker 2: Go find it at the mediater dot com