WEBVTT - Daryl Hall 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:20.956 Pushkin. Hey, this is Justin Richmond from the Broken Record podcast. 0:00:21.276 --> 0:00:23.436 Join me this June for a live taping of Broken 0:00:23.476 --> 0:00:26.316 Record at the Tribeca Festival, where I'll be in conversation 0:00:26.476 --> 0:00:29.356 with Infinity Song, a New York based soft rock band 0:00:29.356 --> 0:00:31.996 comprised of four siblings who will also be doing a 0:00:32.036 --> 0:00:34.596 couple of songs for us. You'll hear the artist and 0:00:34.636 --> 0:00:38.956 a career spanning conversation about their inspirations and dynamic styles. 0:00:39.556 --> 0:00:41.916 We'll be at the SVA Theater on June twelve at 0:00:41.956 --> 0:00:45.876 eight thirty pm. Defind tickets. Visit tribecafilm dot com slash 0:00:45.916 --> 0:00:50.756 Broken Record all lowercase. That's tribecafilm dot com slash Broken Record. 0:00:50.956 --> 0:00:55.956 Hope to see there. Dare I say? Darylhall is one 0:00:55.996 --> 0:00:58.836 of the great pop songwriters of our time as half 0:00:58.836 --> 0:01:00.796 of the duo Hall and Oates, who was all over 0:01:00.836 --> 0:01:03.476 the charts in the seventies and eighties from Sarah Smile 0:01:03.676 --> 0:01:06.636 to Rich Girl to You Make My Dreams and Man Eater, 0:01:07.436 --> 0:01:09.956 But beyond the hits and the pop chart is a gifted, 0:01:09.996 --> 0:01:13.636 soulful writer and player of all sorts of songs. In 0:01:13.676 --> 0:01:16.116 this episode of Broken Record, I talk with Daryl Hall 0:01:16.196 --> 0:01:19.356 about his early days entrenched in Phillies armb scene, his 0:01:19.436 --> 0:01:22.196 stint on Electra records with his band Gulliver that found 0:01:22.276 --> 0:01:25.036 him being label mates with The Doors, how he wrote 0:01:25.076 --> 0:01:29.116 classics like She's Gone Off, Abandoned, Leschenette, his partially shelved 0:01:29.116 --> 0:01:32.236 album with Robert Fripp, and his latest album d a 0:01:32.276 --> 0:01:38.636 collaboration between him and Dave Stewart of the Rhythmics. This 0:01:38.756 --> 0:01:44.116 is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. This episode is 0:01:44.156 --> 0:01:47.316 brought to you by Defender, a vehicle engineered to meet 0:01:47.396 --> 0:01:51.116 challenges head on so you can explore with confidence. Adventure 0:01:51.156 --> 0:01:54.116 Seekers and risk takers can explore the full Defender lineup 0:01:54.276 --> 0:01:59.876 at land ROVERUSA dot com. Here's my conversation with Daryl Hall. 0:02:00.716 --> 0:02:02.556 How you doing, I'm doing well. 0:02:02.556 --> 0:02:03.036 How are you? 0:02:04.196 --> 0:02:08.196 I'm doing okay? I overworked. I'm overworked, but I'm good. 0:02:08.396 --> 0:02:08.676 Got it. 0:02:08.676 --> 0:02:10.156 You gotta say some time to relax. 0:02:10.796 --> 0:02:12.556 Yeah. One, I'd like to know when that is. 0:02:14.956 --> 0:02:19.596 Do you do you find being busy or not having 0:02:19.596 --> 0:02:24.956 it enough to do impacts your songwriting, your creativity. 0:02:25.076 --> 0:02:28.356 Yeah, it's a funny thing. I'm either too busy or 0:02:27.836 --> 0:02:30.636 I'm a champion at the bit it's one or the other. 0:02:31.076 --> 0:02:33.556 I'm either sitting here reading my book and go on, 0:02:33.836 --> 0:02:36.396 oh fuck, you know what am I doing? Or I'm 0:02:36.676 --> 0:02:38.956 overworked and I'm might pull my hair out. 0:02:39.036 --> 0:02:41.196 You know what books do you typically read? 0:02:42.236 --> 0:02:45.716 Oh? I read Jesus depending on my you know, if 0:02:45.756 --> 0:02:47.596 I just want to relax, I read, you know, like 0:02:47.796 --> 0:02:50.916 Michael Connelly books and things like that, James L. Roy, 0:02:51.036 --> 0:02:54.076 you know. But you know I read for information. I 0:02:54.116 --> 0:02:55.396 read constantly. Is what I do? 0:02:56.396 --> 0:02:59.836 Is fiction a source of inspiration for you at all? 0:02:59.996 --> 0:03:01.276 And when it comes to music. 0:03:01.796 --> 0:03:05.396 Who is writing is a source of inspiration? A turn 0:03:05.516 --> 0:03:09.516 of phrase, I might twist it around my own way, 0:03:09.556 --> 0:03:12.436 adapt it to something I'm thinking about, use it in 0:03:12.476 --> 0:03:16.116 a song. I do that all the time. I hardly ever, 0:03:16.316 --> 0:03:20.556 actually basically never pull something directly from an author, but 0:03:20.636 --> 0:03:25.796 I'll use it in in some some form that is 0:03:26.116 --> 0:03:29.596 part of the expression that I'm trying to achieve, in 0:03:29.636 --> 0:03:31.916 a verse or even maybe sometimes in a chorus. 0:03:32.716 --> 0:03:35.716 Is there an example that comes to mind? Oh? 0:03:35.796 --> 0:03:38.676 Yeah, like say it isn't So that's an obvious one, 0:03:39.636 --> 0:03:41.676 you know, It's just it's just part of my and 0:03:41.716 --> 0:03:45.196 also I log it in my head. I might read 0:03:45.836 --> 0:03:50.396 read a phrase and remember it. At some point, it'll 0:03:50.436 --> 0:03:52.836 come back to me as I'm as I'm looking for 0:03:53.276 --> 0:03:55.356 looking for something in a lyric. 0:03:56.596 --> 0:03:58.156 How often do you listen to music? 0:03:58.916 --> 0:04:01.636 I am not a good audience. I don't really listen 0:04:01.716 --> 0:04:05.716 to music. I I make it. You know, I have 0:04:05.836 --> 0:04:09.356 so much music in my head that I I only 0:04:09.436 --> 0:04:13.276 don't care to hear things for what? For pleasure? I 0:04:13.276 --> 0:04:16.596 guess you'd call it. I mean I listened for information. Occasionally, 0:04:16.676 --> 0:04:21.236 I hear things. You know, if I'm in out and 0:04:21.276 --> 0:04:24.356 about and I hear something come on, I might log 0:04:24.396 --> 0:04:26.476 in my head and listen to it, say, well that's 0:04:26.476 --> 0:04:28.756 pretty good, that kind of thing. But I don't sit 0:04:28.796 --> 0:04:30.716 around and listen to the radio. I don't, Like I said, 0:04:30.716 --> 0:04:33.356 I'm not a very good audience around. 0:04:33.436 --> 0:04:36.596 When did you hit that saturation point where you're like, 0:04:37.116 --> 0:04:38.916 I have enough music in my head that I don't 0:04:38.956 --> 0:04:40.316 need to sit around listening anymore. 0:04:40.956 --> 0:04:43.116 It's hard to say. You know, I was when I 0:04:43.196 --> 0:04:46.556 was a kid and a teenager or whatever, I was 0:04:46.596 --> 0:04:49.476 a sponge. You know, all I did was was collect 0:04:49.516 --> 0:04:51.836 records and listen to records and do it all that 0:04:51.916 --> 0:04:54.076 kind of thing. I don't know, I guess it was 0:04:54.556 --> 0:04:57.636 after a while where this became a way of life 0:04:58.236 --> 0:05:02.716 and experiences and music in general, and life experiences started 0:05:02.996 --> 0:05:06.676 building in my head. That's when I stopped listening outside 0:05:06.716 --> 0:05:10.196 of well I need to sometimes. I obviously with life 0:05:10.196 --> 0:05:12.596 from Darrels House, I listened to I listened to an 0:05:12.676 --> 0:05:14.076 artist that's going to be on the show, and I 0:05:14.116 --> 0:05:16.476 listened to their work and I try to get it 0:05:16.516 --> 0:05:20.876 inside their head and figure out how they work. And 0:05:20.876 --> 0:05:24.596 in that case, I am an audience. But I'm quite 0:05:24.596 --> 0:05:27.556 sure when that all started happening, because. 0:05:27.276 --> 0:05:28.636 Like when you were a young kid used to hang 0:05:28.676 --> 0:05:31.276 out at like what wdas and just. 0:05:31.956 --> 0:05:35.156 It was a freak for music. I was the ultimate audience. 0:05:35.516 --> 0:05:39.476 I listened to everything I was. I used to just 0:05:39.516 --> 0:05:42.836 hang out at w BAS and in the upteen theater 0:05:42.956 --> 0:05:46.756 places like that. I mean I just lived there, literally 0:05:46.836 --> 0:05:47.316 lived there. 0:05:48.516 --> 0:05:51.156 What was it like getting signed to Elektra? 0:05:51.796 --> 0:05:56.316 Early on, Well, Jack Holtzman was pretty cool. I have 0:05:56.396 --> 0:05:59.396 to say I liked him. I was doing, you know, 0:05:59.476 --> 0:06:02.476 working at Sigma Sound at Philly, and there was sort 0:06:02.476 --> 0:06:06.156 of an offshoot of side Men and a producer named 0:06:06.196 --> 0:06:10.596 Tommy Sellers that we after hours. He asked me if 0:06:10.636 --> 0:06:12.956 I wanted to join it, and we used to, you know, 0:06:13.436 --> 0:06:16.356 kind of come up with songs and do whatever. And 0:06:16.036 --> 0:06:19.236 we got a body of work together. And then this 0:06:19.836 --> 0:06:22.756 fellow that we all worked for named John Madera. He 0:06:22.796 --> 0:06:25.116 wrote that the hop that's who he is. He wrote, 0:06:25.116 --> 0:06:27.196 you don't own me, you know. He wrote those kind 0:06:27.236 --> 0:06:31.396 of songs from a real old school Philly and he 0:06:31.556 --> 0:06:36.156 started shopping this group of songs around and Electra bit 0:06:36.396 --> 0:06:39.996 and they called it Gulliver And it wasn't a band 0:06:40.036 --> 0:06:41.956 at all. It was just a bunch of we were 0:06:41.996 --> 0:06:45.316 just writing songs. So I kind of went up there. 0:06:45.356 --> 0:06:48.996 It was my first experience outside of Philly working with 0:06:50.316 --> 0:06:53.436 or being involved in sort of a New York a 0:06:53.436 --> 0:06:55.596 a big label. You know. The doors were run Electra 0:06:55.676 --> 0:06:59.076 and everything, and it was an experience and interesting, but 0:06:59.116 --> 0:07:02.276 I wasn't really it wasn't real. It wasn't honest. I 0:07:02.476 --> 0:07:06.516 wasn't trying to shop my work or a band that 0:07:06.556 --> 0:07:08.716 I was working with or anything like that. So it 0:07:08.756 --> 0:07:11.556 was kind of kind of a phony situation really. 0:07:12.556 --> 0:07:14.716 But you did you get to meet Jack Oldsman who 0:07:15.036 --> 0:07:15.676 ran Electra. 0:07:16.276 --> 0:07:18.516 He was in those days. Man, those kind of guys 0:07:18.516 --> 0:07:22.516 were very hands on. Amah was the same. Absolutely. I 0:07:22.556 --> 0:07:25.156 was in used to hang out, not a lot, but 0:07:25.196 --> 0:07:27.276 I used to be in Jack Holtsman office and he 0:07:27.396 --> 0:07:28.756 was really a nice guy. I have to say. 0:07:29.836 --> 0:07:33.356 But you didn't write any tunes for that for that record? 0:07:33.596 --> 0:07:34.556 Correct Or Am I wrong? 0:07:35.196 --> 0:07:38.156 I actually did every Day is a Lovely Day. I 0:07:38.196 --> 0:07:40.276 think it was called something like that, But I didn't. 0:07:40.276 --> 0:07:42.156 My heart wasn't in it. I was just doing it, 0:07:42.196 --> 0:07:44.756 you know, it was It wasn't really. I was doing 0:07:44.836 --> 0:07:48.876 a lot of things to try and basically get in 0:07:49.036 --> 0:07:51.836 the quote business and do things for money. You know. 0:07:51.916 --> 0:07:55.916 I was doing commercials, I was I was doing sidebend stuff. 0:07:55.956 --> 0:07:59.076 I was working with the game on Hugh team, playing 0:07:59.116 --> 0:08:02.996 on records with those guys. I was doing anything I 0:08:03.036 --> 0:08:06.956 could do really to make a few bucks. And that 0:08:07.116 --> 0:08:09.436 electric thing was part of that whole scene, you know, 0:08:09.556 --> 0:08:12.556 And I was sort of trying to find myself, to 0:08:12.596 --> 0:08:13.196 tell you the truth. 0:08:13.556 --> 0:08:18.396 By the time you get to whole Oats, does that 0:08:18.436 --> 0:08:21.556 start to feel like this is actually what I want 0:08:21.556 --> 0:08:24.196 to do and this isn't just a way to get in. 0:08:24.996 --> 0:08:26.556 It was a way to get in, but it was 0:08:26.676 --> 0:08:29.356 it was a little of both. I had met John 0:08:29.756 --> 0:08:34.436 in school in Temple university and I needed a roommate. 0:08:34.516 --> 0:08:37.116 We were both sort of suburban, not we weren't suburban, 0:08:37.116 --> 0:08:39.556 that's the wrong word. But we lived out of town, 0:08:40.036 --> 0:08:45.556 and so I started sharing apartments with him, and we 0:08:45.596 --> 0:08:48.836 always did things separately. I think that's the whole mark 0:08:48.876 --> 0:08:51.396 of anything I ever did with John Oates. He had 0:08:51.396 --> 0:08:55.156 his own world. I have my own world, and proximity 0:08:55.196 --> 0:08:59.756 pulled us together more than anything, even in those days. 0:09:00.396 --> 0:09:05.036 So we decided, I remember the words, I said, let's 0:09:05.436 --> 0:09:08.516 you know what, We'll share the stage. You do your thing, 0:09:08.556 --> 0:09:12.236 I do my thing. And that was how the whole 0:09:12.236 --> 0:09:15.436 Oats thing happened, because on the mailbox it's their haul 0:09:15.556 --> 0:09:18.196 and Oates and we turned it into whole Loats, you know, 0:09:19.076 --> 0:09:24.956 really really creative. And we used to play around Philly 0:09:25.116 --> 0:09:27.916 in these little places. There was a place called World 0:09:27.956 --> 0:09:31.636 Control Headquarters that held about eighty people, and we became 0:09:31.756 --> 0:09:34.876 fixtures there and we got and we started getting a following, 0:09:35.116 --> 0:09:37.476 and then we'd play other places that were similar and 0:09:37.916 --> 0:09:41.876 we started doing that, and that was how the whole 0:09:41.916 --> 0:09:46.076 relationship with Oates got started, by doing that and people 0:09:46.236 --> 0:09:49.196 enjoying it what we were doing. And then we started 0:09:49.796 --> 0:09:51.796 looking around from record deal after that. 0:09:53.756 --> 0:09:56.196 Did you recognize at the time what work in with 0:09:56.756 --> 0:09:57.396 like in a Reef? 0:09:57.436 --> 0:10:02.236 Martin meant absolutely because I was used to working with 0:10:02.316 --> 0:10:06.236 Tommy Bell and One Huff, so I knew what good 0:10:06.276 --> 0:10:10.196 shit was. I knew immediately that a Reef was something special. 0:10:10.676 --> 0:10:12.756 I mean I was I was familiar with his work 0:10:12.796 --> 0:10:15.076 first of all. I mean, you know, he'd go from 0:10:15.156 --> 0:10:18.076 Carly Simon to Aretha, to me to to you know, 0:10:18.636 --> 0:10:20.916 even name it, to all these folks bands, all kinds 0:10:20.916 --> 0:10:24.876 of things. He taught me fluency in a lot of 0:10:24.956 --> 0:10:28.716 musical languages. I think I really learned that for the 0:10:28.716 --> 0:10:31.876 first time from him. Before that, I was more like 0:10:31.996 --> 0:10:34.916 just straight out of Philadelphia, you know, or at least 0:10:34.916 --> 0:10:35.716 by version of it. 0:10:36.036 --> 0:10:39.076 What was his impression of your songs? 0:10:39.476 --> 0:10:41.836 He said that that I reminded him of an English 0:10:41.836 --> 0:10:45.076 composer that I can never remember the name. There was 0:10:45.116 --> 0:10:48.436 an obscureor English composer, and it was something about what 0:10:48.796 --> 0:10:53.316 that was his frame of reference. But he saw something 0:10:53.396 --> 0:10:57.436 in me that I think other people hadn't seen yet. 0:10:57.756 --> 0:11:00.556 Did that encourage you at the time? Scare you? 0:11:01.716 --> 0:11:05.156 It didn't scare me, but it encouraged me because he 0:11:05.236 --> 0:11:08.196 again he was He was an encourager, so he tried 0:11:08.236 --> 0:11:10.556 to bring it out. He tried to he tried to 0:11:10.556 --> 0:11:12.996 give me confidence. He egged me on, and he was 0:11:13.036 --> 0:11:15.756 a cheerleader, you know he was. He had a great 0:11:15.756 --> 0:11:19.116 sense of you, Burt too, But he kind of made 0:11:19.116 --> 0:11:21.396 me feel legitimate in what I was, in what I 0:11:21.436 --> 0:11:24.676 was thinking about and doing, and to be unafraid to 0:11:24.756 --> 0:11:25.436 do things. 0:11:25.956 --> 0:11:30.276 Do you remember an album like Abandoned Lunchonette, which is 0:11:30.516 --> 0:11:33.716 the second Holland Oats record, was he worked with you 0:11:33.756 --> 0:11:39.956 guys on Also the songs themselves sound leaps and bounds 0:11:40.516 --> 0:11:43.596 more evolved past Whole Oats, but then also just the 0:11:43.596 --> 0:11:45.196 way that they were put together or the way that 0:11:45.236 --> 0:11:49.316 they were arranged or orchestrated, And how much of that 0:11:49.956 --> 0:11:52.396 was just you guys progressing as artists and you progressing 0:11:52.436 --> 0:11:54.596 as an artist, Darryl, And how much of that was 0:11:54.916 --> 0:11:57.756 working with a reef and seeing the potential and the 0:11:57.796 --> 0:11:58.796 songs that you were writing. 0:12:00.316 --> 0:12:04.396 The Whole Oats album was this grab bag of songs 0:12:04.436 --> 0:12:08.796 that John Oates and I had written over the years, 0:12:09.236 --> 0:12:11.916 like we were still in high school and college, you know, 0:12:12.476 --> 0:12:14.516 we decided we're going to put him down one record. 0:12:14.876 --> 0:12:16.956 To me, the whole Oats record was. It was a 0:12:16.996 --> 0:12:20.796 Hall of Oats demo. It wasn't really a record. It 0:12:21.436 --> 0:12:24.196 was in record form. It was sold as a record, 0:12:24.356 --> 0:12:27.756 but it wasn't a record. It wasn't a thought a band. Eluchenet, 0:12:27.796 --> 0:12:31.756 in my opinion, was our first record and at the times, 0:12:31.796 --> 0:12:35.436 dictated that kind of production. You know. I think the 0:12:35.436 --> 0:12:39.996 involvement of a guy named Chris Bond, Christopher Bond was 0:12:40.436 --> 0:12:43.516 it can't be discounted with it because he well he 0:12:43.596 --> 0:12:48.676 was a budding producer himself, and he was unlike me 0:12:49.276 --> 0:12:51.876 or reef he was. He was totally a beatlemaniac, you know, 0:12:51.916 --> 0:12:54.996 and and I think he was influenced by that kind 0:12:54.996 --> 0:12:58.556 of late late period beatle music. And you can always 0:12:58.636 --> 0:13:02.156 hear it in the songs where there'll be whatever I'm 0:13:02.196 --> 0:13:05.436 doing or eas is doing, and then suddenly this kind 0:13:05.436 --> 0:13:08.636 of beatless thing will be attached to it, you know, 0:13:08.756 --> 0:13:11.396 which bugs me to type the truth. But then I 0:13:11.436 --> 0:13:14.356 think if I don't know if it enhanced the album, 0:13:14.396 --> 0:13:16.676 but I am very proud of that album, and it 0:13:16.716 --> 0:13:19.156 was I think I think the body of work was 0:13:19.196 --> 0:13:21.716 really interesting. I think I consider it to be the 0:13:21.756 --> 0:13:24.316 first Hall of Notes record and maybe one of the 0:13:24.316 --> 0:13:26.756 only real Hall of Notes records. What makes you say 0:13:26.756 --> 0:13:30.716 that because we didn't really work together that much after 0:13:30.756 --> 0:13:35.636 that we did that record, and then I and then 0:13:35.756 --> 0:13:38.276 I we did that record with. 0:13:38.396 --> 0:13:42.556 War Babies album Todd Rundgren that was basically being Todd, 0:13:42.876 --> 0:13:46.916 you know, and then after that it really got very separate, 0:13:46.956 --> 0:13:49.956 where John wrote some songs and he'd. 0:13:49.796 --> 0:13:52.196 Sing them, you'd hear them one there, and his voice 0:13:52.196 --> 0:13:55.116 would be the lead singer, and then I wrote whatever 0:13:55.196 --> 0:13:57.756 I wrote, and that was that was the majority of it, 0:13:57.916 --> 0:14:01.516 and that that that that idea that continued all the 0:14:01.516 --> 0:14:02.396 way through our career. 0:14:02.556 --> 0:14:07.316 Really, so seventy two seventy three abandoned lunch and that 0:14:07.356 --> 0:14:10.276 you guys are working actually together. What wasn't about that 0:14:10.916 --> 0:14:13.636 time that allowed that to unfold that way? 0:14:14.596 --> 0:14:16.316 I think a lot of it had to do with 0:14:16.836 --> 0:14:19.316 we were new. It was us against the world because 0:14:19.356 --> 0:14:22.756 we were still really kids, just out of college, and 0:14:23.796 --> 0:14:26.116 we were sharing apartments, and we moved and we moved 0:14:26.116 --> 0:14:28.436 from Philly to New York and we shared an apartment. 0:14:28.476 --> 0:14:30.596 We were in the same house, so it was kind 0:14:30.636 --> 0:14:33.316 of hard to not collaborate because you know, I'd be 0:14:33.356 --> 0:14:35.356 doing something I'd heat hear it, or he'd be doing 0:14:35.436 --> 0:14:38.436 like She's Gone, for example, which is a real hall 0:14:38.756 --> 0:14:40.836 hall had Oats song fifty to fifty all the way. 0:14:41.276 --> 0:14:44.836 He was playing that kind of chorus riff, like a 0:14:44.876 --> 0:14:48.716 folky riff, and I said, well, that's cool, that's kind 0:14:48.716 --> 0:14:50.796 of interesting, and I sat down on the piano and 0:14:50.836 --> 0:14:57.396 I went, you know, you know, you know, I did that, 0:14:57.836 --> 0:15:01.156 and that turned into She's Gone, and then we we 0:15:01.236 --> 0:15:04.036 wrote the lyrics together, so that was a real haul 0:15:04.076 --> 0:15:04.676 and Oats song. 0:15:05.396 --> 0:15:07.076 Were you guys proud of that song when you at 0:15:07.076 --> 0:15:08.556 the time, I mean, that is still to this day 0:15:08.596 --> 0:15:10.156 it's just a jaw dropper. 0:15:10.516 --> 0:15:13.236 I'm doing it was good, but I okay. And then 0:15:13.356 --> 0:15:16.876 we took that to a reef and talk about jaw drop. 0:15:16.956 --> 0:15:20.076 He is what jaw dropped and I was just playing 0:15:20.076 --> 0:15:23.196 it on a Fender Rhoads and he's the one that 0:15:23.276 --> 0:15:29.676 came up with that. And you know all about the 0:15:29.716 --> 0:15:32.236 progression at the end of the song, which is really 0:15:32.276 --> 0:15:34.796 off the wall really and that but that was his 0:15:34.956 --> 0:15:35.916 idea completely. 0:15:36.156 --> 0:15:40.196 That's interesting because that progression sounds almost like I almost 0:15:40.196 --> 0:15:42.516 feels like a signature at least of yours, Like I 0:15:42.516 --> 0:15:45.916 feel like I, uh that change, that step up. I'm 0:15:45.956 --> 0:15:47.636 just shocked to that came from from him. 0:15:48.396 --> 0:15:51.156 Well, I learned it from him and decided it was 0:15:51.196 --> 0:15:53.796 a good idea. 0:15:54.636 --> 0:15:56.236 Because that's one of those moments you're listening to that 0:15:56.236 --> 0:15:59.716 you're like, oh, there's the hollow notes that I think 0:15:59.756 --> 0:16:02.516 the majority of people think of when they think hallo notes. 0:16:02.556 --> 0:16:03.716 You know, just a casual listener. 0:16:04.316 --> 0:16:07.436 I have a mixed feelings about modulation, but I like it. 0:16:07.596 --> 0:16:11.116 Sometimes it's really effective, lifing the Shees Gone kind of song. 0:16:11.916 --> 0:16:14.996 More more recently, I don't use so much modulation anymore. 0:16:15.276 --> 0:16:18.236 Why is that what causes the mixt No. 0:16:18.396 --> 0:16:20.916 I just changed my taste changed. 0:16:21.916 --> 0:16:24.836 It's not an intellectual thing now, you know what it is? 0:16:24.876 --> 0:16:29.236 Too many, too many shitty songs modulated. A modulation is 0:16:29.596 --> 0:16:32.196 a trick to take something mediocre and make it sound 0:16:32.236 --> 0:16:35.156 like it's better than it is in a lot of cases. 0:16:36.196 --> 0:16:39.156 Was there ever the thought after abandon Lnchinette to do 0:16:39.276 --> 0:16:40.476 something more on your own? 0:16:41.356 --> 0:16:46.436 That's what I decided that I wanted. It's a strange 0:16:46.476 --> 0:16:49.916 thing I started for getting that sort of Okay, I 0:16:49.956 --> 0:16:52.356 want to go out there and do this on myself. 0:16:53.316 --> 0:16:56.516 At that period of time, but I was in an 0:16:56.596 --> 0:17:00.236 environment with people who did not want to hear about it, 0:17:00.636 --> 0:17:04.076 and they did everything they could over all those years 0:17:04.436 --> 0:17:09.676 to stop me and stop my impulses to do that, 0:17:09.956 --> 0:17:13.356 and try and keep me. He'd be aligned if you 0:17:13.436 --> 0:17:17.276 want the truth to be, and keep me, keep me doing. 0:17:17.836 --> 0:17:19.316 What they were making money. 0:17:19.556 --> 0:17:21.676 From was that label pressure. 0:17:22.636 --> 0:17:24.436 It was label management everything. 0:17:25.156 --> 0:17:27.156 When did your relationship with Tommy Mottola start? 0:17:27.596 --> 0:17:31.476 It started back around that whole Oats period. Really, he 0:17:31.596 --> 0:17:34.916 was working in Chapel Music. He had an office the 0:17:34.956 --> 0:17:38.836 size of the closet and we went up there with 0:17:38.916 --> 0:17:42.196 John Madeira and we were doing something I don't even 0:17:42.236 --> 0:17:43.796 know why. I guess John and was trying to lease 0:17:43.836 --> 0:17:48.316 his liase, his publishing or something. And I got started 0:17:48.356 --> 0:17:52.036 talking to Tommy, and Tommy wanted to be a manager, 0:17:52.116 --> 0:17:55.916 you know, he had big ambitions, and I guess he 0:17:55.916 --> 0:17:58.156 heard me play something or whatever, and he said, why 0:17:58.156 --> 0:18:00.516 don't you do You know you don't want to stay 0:18:00.516 --> 0:18:05.196 in Philadelphia, watch let me manage it. And I went, well, 0:18:05.236 --> 0:18:08.796 that's interesting, okay, sure, And he kept me laughing for 0:18:08.836 --> 0:18:10.996 about fifteen years, and then I woke up. 0:18:12.676 --> 0:18:16.036 When you write a song like Gino on the White album, 0:18:17.636 --> 0:18:19.156 that's about Tommy Mattola right. 0:18:19.676 --> 0:18:21.156 I was speaking truth right there. 0:18:22.796 --> 0:18:25.196 Did he find that funny at the time or he. 0:18:25.076 --> 0:18:27.116 Acted like he was he thought it was funny. I 0:18:27.476 --> 0:18:30.116 assume he was smart enough to realize what it was about. 0:18:33.996 --> 0:18:36.756 How'd you come up with the course on that? That's 0:18:36.756 --> 0:18:38.116 such a strange. 0:18:38.116 --> 0:18:40.516 Used to say shit like that, hard works being something 0:18:40.596 --> 0:18:42.956 you know and lift fast style laughing. That's all he 0:18:43.036 --> 0:18:46.356 did was laugh all the time. No herd him asking 0:18:46.476 --> 0:18:49.116 nothing for nothing, and that's straight out of his mouth. 0:18:50.636 --> 0:18:53.076 We'll be right back with more from Daryl Hall after 0:18:53.116 --> 0:18:59.156 the break. I want to talk about Todd run Green 0:18:59.236 --> 0:19:02.436 and David Foster, because you do war Babies with Todd 0:19:02.516 --> 0:19:05.676 run Gren, you do a couple of records with David Foster. 0:19:06.276 --> 0:19:08.196 To hear you say that a reef kind of opens 0:19:08.236 --> 0:19:10.676 you up and allows you to sort of put all 0:19:10.676 --> 0:19:13.476 these different styles and kinds of music together. Makes sense 0:19:13.516 --> 0:19:15.956 to me because it's very hard to make sense of 0:19:15.956 --> 0:19:19.356 your career in the sense of it's so broad. It's 0:19:19.476 --> 0:19:22.076 I mean, you make a record with the reef, David Foster, 0:19:22.156 --> 0:19:25.996 Todd Rundgrend, Robert Fripp. I mean, like it's just it's 0:19:26.076 --> 0:19:29.636 it's insane, it's different, it's incredible. 0:19:30.036 --> 0:19:32.796 Well, first of all, I I, as you can imagine, 0:19:32.836 --> 0:19:35.876 I'm an adventurous soul and I and I'm not afraid. 0:19:36.476 --> 0:19:39.316 I like to try things. I like to expand myself. 0:19:39.356 --> 0:19:43.876 I like to put myself in in sometimes uncomfortable situations, 0:19:43.916 --> 0:19:49.076 but usually just in creatively, creatively exciting situations and see 0:19:49.076 --> 0:19:51.316 what comes out of it. Todd was the first one 0:19:51.436 --> 0:19:54.396 that I did like that. I mean, I have very 0:19:54.436 --> 0:19:56.636 mixed feelings about the War Babies album. I mean, I 0:19:56.636 --> 0:19:58.436 think there was a lot of great ideas on it. 0:19:58.756 --> 0:20:01.556 To me, it sounds like squirrels on acid. I mean, 0:20:01.636 --> 0:20:06.036 I you know, it's just sorry. You know, people talk 0:20:06.076 --> 0:20:08.796 about that album like and I go, okay, well, ld 0:20:08.836 --> 0:20:13.476 you like. But at least it was an attempt to 0:20:13.516 --> 0:20:17.116 break out of something and be open to the world, 0:20:17.596 --> 0:20:20.916 be open to the musical world. And I tried to 0:20:20.996 --> 0:20:23.396 keep that attitude. And I certainly kept that attitude when 0:20:23.436 --> 0:20:26.436 I worked with Robert And that was the point, except 0:20:26.436 --> 0:20:29.036 that I was more controlled within that. And I think 0:20:29.076 --> 0:20:32.596 what I did with Robert was I was very happy with. 0:20:33.356 --> 0:20:36.116 And David Foster that was another one that it was 0:20:36.196 --> 0:20:39.516 kind of suggested. David was twenty two years old when 0:20:39.516 --> 0:20:44.396 I met him, and he had done some things with Chicago. 0:20:44.596 --> 0:20:47.556 I think we were the first bands that he were 0:20:47.956 --> 0:20:51.756 really produced. We butted heads, but at the same time, 0:20:51.996 --> 0:20:53.716 I think there was a lot of respect going on 0:20:53.796 --> 0:20:58.796 there and on both sides, and we did some interesting things. 0:20:59.396 --> 0:21:02.156 When you're in a situation like that and you and 0:21:02.196 --> 0:21:05.916 Oates maybe aren't as strong as a partnership as you 0:21:05.956 --> 0:21:08.036 could be, and then and you're sort of button head 0:21:08.156 --> 0:21:10.956 to the producer, all so that's got to feel kind 0:21:10.996 --> 0:21:12.436 that's gotta be a bit isolating. 0:21:13.796 --> 0:21:17.756 Yeah, well, I mean again, it was I was dealing 0:21:17.796 --> 0:21:19.836 with it like it was my show, and it was 0:21:20.196 --> 0:21:24.436 the principal characters was being the producers, and I knew 0:21:24.436 --> 0:21:26.316 what I wanted. I knew what I wanted to do. 0:21:26.836 --> 0:21:30.996 And a guy like David, he's a he's a He 0:21:31.076 --> 0:21:34.876 comes from the autocratic school where he's a great musician 0:21:35.036 --> 0:21:37.796 and he wants people to do it his way, and 0:21:37.836 --> 0:21:39.996 I don't necessarily agree with that. 0:21:40.036 --> 0:21:42.676 All the time you mentioned you were really happy with 0:21:42.676 --> 0:21:46.276 the Robert Fripp record, it blew my mind. I looked 0:21:46.436 --> 0:21:49.796 back at the dates, and you guys recorded that the 0:21:49.956 --> 0:21:55.836 month after he wraps Heroes with David Bowie and then 0:21:55.836 --> 0:21:57.276 he's in the studio with you the next month and 0:21:57.316 --> 0:21:59.916 you guys are making what's your first solo record? 0:22:00.476 --> 0:22:03.436