Speaker 1: Pushkin. Dare I say? Daryl Hall is one of the
Speaker 1: great pop songwriters of our time, as half of the
Speaker 1: duo Hall and Notes, who was all over the charts
Speaker 1: in the seventies and eighties from Sarah Smile to Rich
Speaker 1: Girl to You Make My Dreams and Man Eater, But
Speaker 1: beyond the hits and the pop chart is a gifted,
Speaker 1: soulful writer and player of all sorts of songs. In
Speaker 1: this episode of Broken Record, I talked with Daryl Hall
Speaker 1: about his early days entrenched in Phillies arm b scene,
Speaker 1: his stint on Electra records with his band Gulliver that
Speaker 1: found him being label mates with The Doors, how he
Speaker 1: wrote classics like She's Gone Off, Abandoned, Lechonette, his partially
Speaker 1: shelved album with Robert Fripp, and his latest album d
Speaker 1: a collaboration between him and Dave Stewart of The Rhythmics.
Speaker 1: This is Broken Record, real musicians, real conversations. This episode
Speaker 1: is brought to you by Defender, a vehicle engineered to
Speaker 1: meet challenges head on so you can explore with confidence.
Speaker 1: Adventure Seekers and risk takers can explore the full Defender
Speaker 1: lineup at land ROVERUSA dot com. Here's my conversation with
Speaker 1: Daryl Hall. How you doing, I'm doing well. How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm doing Okay? I overworked. I'm overworked, but I'm good.
Speaker 1: You got it. You gotta take some time to relax.
Speaker 2: Yeah. One I'd like to know when that is.
Speaker 1: Do you do you find being busy or not having
Speaker 1: it enough to do impacts your songwriting, your creativity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a funny thing. I'm either too busy or
Speaker 2: I'm champion at the bit. It's one or the other.
Speaker 2: I'm either sitting here reading my book and go on,
Speaker 2: oh fuck, you know what am I doing? Or I'm
Speaker 2: overworked and I'm might pull my hair out.
Speaker 1: You know what books do you typically read?
Speaker 2: Oh? I read depending on my you know, if I
Speaker 2: just want to relax, I read, you know, like Michael
Speaker 2: Connolly books and things like that, James L. Roy, you know.
Speaker 2: But you know I read for information. I read constantly.
Speaker 2: Is what I do?
Speaker 1: Is fiction a source of inspiration for you at all?
Speaker 1: And when it comes to music, who.
Speaker 2: Writing is a source of inspiration? A turn of phrase,
Speaker 2: I might twist it around my own way, adapt it
Speaker 2: to something I'm thinking about, use it in a song.
Speaker 2: I do that all the time. I hardly ever, actually
Speaker 2: basically never pull something directly from an author, but I'll
Speaker 2: use it in some form that is part of the
Speaker 2: expression that I'm trying to achieve in a verse or
Speaker 2: even maybe sometimes in a chorus.
Speaker 1: Is there an example that comes to mind? Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, like say it is it? So that's an obvious one,
Speaker 2: you know, It's just part of my And also I
Speaker 2: log it in my head. I might read a phrase
Speaker 2: and remember it. At some point, it'll come back to
Speaker 2: me as i'm as I'm looking for looking for something
Speaker 2: in a lyric.
Speaker 1: How often do you listen to music?
Speaker 2: I am not a good audience. I don't really listen
Speaker 2: to music. I make it. You know. I have so
Speaker 2: much music in my head that I really don't care
Speaker 2: to hear things for what for pleasure? I guess you'd
Speaker 2: call it. I mean I hear I listen for information. Occasionally,
Speaker 2: I hear things, you know, if I'm if I'm in
Speaker 2: out and about and I hear something come on, I
Speaker 2: might log in my head and listen to it, say oh,
Speaker 2: that's pretty good, that kind of thing. But I don't
Speaker 2: sit around and listen to the radio. I don't, like
Speaker 2: I said, I'm not a very good audience around.
Speaker 1: When did you hit that saturation point where you're like,
Speaker 1: I have enough music in my head that I don't
Speaker 1: need to sit around listening anymore.
Speaker 2: It's hard to say, you know, I was when I
Speaker 2: was a kid and a teenager or whatever, I was
Speaker 2: a sponge. You know. All I did was was collect
Speaker 2: records and listen to records and do it all that
Speaker 2: kind of thing. I don't know. I guess it was
Speaker 2: after a while where this became a way of life
Speaker 2: and experiences and music in general and life experiences started
Speaker 2: building in my head. That's when I stopped listening outside
Speaker 2: of well I needed sometimes obviously with a life from
Speaker 2: Darrels House, I listened to I listened to an artist
Speaker 2: that's going to be on the show, and I listened
Speaker 2: to their work and I try to get it inside
Speaker 2: their head and figure out how they work. And in
Speaker 2: that case, I am an audience. But I'm quite sure
Speaker 2: when that all started happening.
Speaker 1: Because like when you were a young kid, used to
Speaker 1: hang out at like what wdas and just I was.
Speaker 2: A freak for music. I was the ultimate audience. I
Speaker 2: listened to everything I was. I used to just hang
Speaker 2: out at wdas and in the Uptep Theater places like that.
Speaker 2: I mean I just lived there, literally lived there.
Speaker 1: What was it like getting signed to Elektra early on?
Speaker 2: Well, Jack Holtzman was pretty cool. I have to say
Speaker 2: I liked him. I was doing, you know, working at
Speaker 2: Sigma Sound at Philly, and there was sort of an
Speaker 2: offshoot of side men and a producer named Tommy Sellers
Speaker 2: that we after hours. He asked me if I wanted
Speaker 2: to join in, and we used to you know, kind
Speaker 2: of come up with songs and do whatever. And we
Speaker 2: got a body of work together. And then this fellow
Speaker 2: that we all worked for named John Madera. He wrote
Speaker 2: that the hop that's who he is. He wrote, you
Speaker 2: don't own Me, you know. He wrote those kind of
Speaker 2: songs from a real old school Philly and he started
Speaker 2: shopping this group of songs around and Electra bit and
Speaker 2: they called it Gulliver And it wasn't a band at all.
Speaker 2: It was just a bunch of we were just writing songs.
Speaker 2: So I kind of went up there. It was my
Speaker 2: first experience outside of Philly working with or being involved
Speaker 2: in sort of a New York a a big label.
Speaker 2: You know. The doors were what Electra and everything and
Speaker 2: It was an experience and interesting, but I wasn't really,
Speaker 2: it wasn't real. It wasn't honest. I wasn't trying to
Speaker 2: shop my work or a band that I was working
Speaker 2: with or anything like that. So it was kind of
Speaker 2: kind of a phony situation really.
Speaker 1: But you did you get to meet Jack Oldsman who
Speaker 1: ran Electra.
Speaker 2: He was in those days. Man, those kind of guys
Speaker 2: were very hands on. Amah was the same. Absolutely. I
Speaker 2: was in used to hang out not a lot, but
Speaker 2: I used to be in Jack Holtsman office and he
Speaker 2: was really a nice guy. I have to say.
Speaker 1: But you didn't write any tunes for that for that record?
Speaker 1: Correct Or am I wrong?
Speaker 2: I actually did every Day is a Lovely Day? They
Speaker 2: was called something like that. But I didn't. My heart
Speaker 2: wasn't in it. I was just doing it, you know.
Speaker 2: It was wasn't really. I was doing a lot of
Speaker 2: things to try and basically get in the quote business
Speaker 2: and do things for money. You know. I was doing commercials.
Speaker 2: I was I was doing Cidebend stuff. I was working
Speaker 2: with the game on Hugh team, playing on records with
Speaker 2: those guys. I was doing anything I could do really
Speaker 2: to make a few bucks and that electric thing was
Speaker 2: part of that whole scene, you know, and I was
Speaker 2: sort of trying to find myself, to tell you the truth.
Speaker 1: By the time you get to Whole Oats, does that
Speaker 1: start to feel like this is actually what I want
Speaker 1: to do and this isn't just a way to get in.
Speaker 2: It was a way to get in, but it was
Speaker 2: It was a little of both. I had met John
Speaker 2: in school in Temple University, and I needed a roommate.
Speaker 2: We were both sort of suburban, not we weren't suburban,
Speaker 2: that's the wrong word, but we live we lived out
Speaker 2: of town, and so I started sharing apartments with him,
Speaker 2: and we always did things separately. I think that's the
Speaker 2: whole mark of anything I ever did with Jhon Oates.
Speaker 2: He had his own world. I have my own world,
Speaker 2: and proximity pulled us together more than anything, even in
Speaker 2: those days. So we decided, I remember the words, I said,
Speaker 2: let's you know what, We'll share the stage. You do
Speaker 2: your thing, I do my thing. And that was how
Speaker 2: the Whole Oats thing happened. Because on the mailbox it's
Speaker 2: their hall and Oates and we turned it into Whole Oats,
Speaker 2: you know, really really creative, and we used to play
Speaker 2: around Philly in these little places. There was a place
Speaker 2: called World Control Headquarters that held about eighty people, and
Speaker 2: we became fixtures there and we got and we started
Speaker 2: getting a following, and then we'd play other places that
Speaker 2: were similar and we started doing that, and that was
Speaker 2: how the whole relationship with Oats got started, by doing
Speaker 2: that and people enjoying it what we were doing, and
Speaker 2: then we started looking around from record deal after that.
Speaker 1: Did you recognize at the time what working with like
Speaker 1: in a Reef Martin meant?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Because I was used to working with Tommy Bell
Speaker 2: and one up, so I knew what good shit was.
Speaker 2: I knew immediately that a Reef was something special. I
Speaker 2: mean I was. I was familiar with his work first
Speaker 2: of all. I mean, you know, he'd go from Carly
Speaker 2: Simon to Aretha to Me to to you know, even
Speaker 2: name it, to all these folk bands, all kinds of things.
Speaker 2: He taught me fluency in a lot of musical languages.
Speaker 2: I think I really learned that for the first time
Speaker 2: from him. Before that, I was more like just straight
Speaker 2: out in Philadelphia, you know, or at least by version
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 1: What was his impression of your songs?
Speaker 2: He said that I reminded him of an English composer
Speaker 2: that I can never remember the name. There was an
Speaker 2: obscure English composer and it was something about what that
Speaker 2: that was his frame of reference. But he saw something
Speaker 2: in me that I think other people hadn't seen yet.
Speaker 1: Did that encourage you at the time? Scare you?
Speaker 2: It didn't scare me, but it encouraged me because he again,
Speaker 2: he was he was an encourager. So he tried to
Speaker 2: bring it out. He tried to he tried to give
Speaker 2: me confidence. He egged me on, and he was a cheerleader,
Speaker 2: you know he was. He had a great sense of
Speaker 2: you Bert too. But he kind of made me feel
Speaker 2: legitimate in what I was, in what I was thinking
Speaker 2: about and doing, and and to be unafraid to do things.
Speaker 1: Do you remember an album like Abandoned Lunchonette, which is
Speaker 1: the second Hollan Oats record he was He worked with
Speaker 1: you guys on also the songs themselves sound leaps and
Speaker 1: bounds more evolved past whole Oats, But then also just
Speaker 1: the way that they were put together or the way
Speaker 1: that they were arranged or orchestrated, and how much of
Speaker 1: that was just you guys? Progressing as artists and you
Speaker 1: progressing as an artist, Daryl, and how much of that
Speaker 1: was working with a Reef and seeing the potential and
Speaker 1: the songs that you were writing.
Speaker 2: The Whole Oats album was this grab bag of songs
Speaker 2: that John Oates and I had written over the years,
Speaker 2: like we were still in high school and college. You know,
Speaker 2: we decided we were going to put him down one record.
Speaker 2: To me, the Whole Oats record was it was a
Speaker 2: Whole of Oats demo. It wasn't really a record. It
Speaker 2: was in record form. It was sold as a record,
Speaker 2: but it wasn't a record. It wasn't a thought, a band,
Speaker 2: a luncheon that in my opinion, was our first record
Speaker 2: and at the times dictated that kind of production. You know.
Speaker 2: I think the involvement of a guy named Chris Bond,
Speaker 2: Christopher Bond, was where it can't be discounted with it
Speaker 2: because he he was a budding producer himself, and he
Speaker 2: was unlike me or Reef, he was he was totally
Speaker 2: a beatlemaniac, you know, and and I think he was
Speaker 2: influenced by that kind of late late period beatle music
Speaker 2: and you can always hear it in the songs where
Speaker 2: there'll be whatever I'm doing or Ease is doing, and
Speaker 2: then suddenly this kind of beatless thing will be attached
Speaker 2: to it, you know, which bugs me a type of truth.
Speaker 2: But I think if I don't know if it enhanced
Speaker 2: the album, but I am very proud of that album,
Speaker 2: and it was I think, I think the body of
Speaker 2: work was really interesting. I think I consider it to
Speaker 2: be the first Hall of Notes record, and maybe one
Speaker 2: of the only real Hall of Notes records. What makes
Speaker 2: you say that because we didn't really work together that
Speaker 2: much after that we did that record, and then I
Speaker 2: and then.
Speaker 3: I we did do that record with war Maybes album
Speaker 3: Todd Rundgren that was basically being Todd, you know, and
Speaker 3: then after that it really got very separate, where John
Speaker 3: wrote some songs that he'd sing.
Speaker 2: Them, you'd hear them one there, and his voice would
Speaker 2: be the lead singer, and then I wrote whatever I wrote,
Speaker 2: and that was that was the majority of it, and
Speaker 2: that that that idea that continued all the way through
Speaker 2: our career.
Speaker 1: Really, so seventy two seventy three abandoned lunch and that
Speaker 1: you guys are working actually together. What was it about
Speaker 1: that time that allowed that to unfold that way.
Speaker 2: I think a lot I had to do with we
Speaker 2: were new It was us against the world because we
Speaker 2: were still really kids, just out of college, and we
Speaker 2: were sharing apartments and we moved in we moved from
Speaker 2: Philly to New York, and we shared an apartment. We
Speaker 2: were in the same house. So it was kind of
Speaker 2: hard to not collaborate because you know, I'd be doing
Speaker 2: something i'd he'd hear it, or he'd be doing like
Speaker 2: She's Gone, for example, which is a real Hall had
Speaker 2: notes song fifty to fifty all the way. He was
Speaker 2: playing that kind of chorus riff, like a folky riff,
Speaker 2: and I said, well, that's cool, that's kind of interesting,
Speaker 2: and I sat down on the piano and I want
Speaker 2: you know, you know, you know, I did that, and
Speaker 2: that turned into She's Gone, and then we we wrote
Speaker 2: the lyrics together, so that was a real hollan Old song.
Speaker 1: Well you guys, proud of that song when you at
Speaker 1: the time. I mean that is still to this day.
Speaker 1: It's just a jaw dropper.
Speaker 2: I'm newing it was good, but I okay. And then
Speaker 2: we took that to a reef and talk abat jaw
Speaker 2: drop his jaw dropped and I was just playing it
Speaker 2: on a Fender Rhoads, And he's the one that came
Speaker 2: up with that. And you know all about the progression
Speaker 2: at the end of the song, which is really off
Speaker 2: the wall, really and that, but that was his idea completely.
Speaker 1: That's interesting because that progression sounds almost like almost feels
Speaker 1: like a signature at least of yours. Like I feel
Speaker 1: like I that change that step up. I'm just shocked
Speaker 1: that that came from him.
Speaker 2: Well, I learned it from him and decided it was
Speaker 2: a good idea.
Speaker 1: Because that's one of those moments you're listening to that
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, there's the hollow notes that I think
Speaker 1: the majority of people think of when they think hallo notes,
Speaker 1: you know, just a casual listener.
Speaker 2: I have a mixed feelings about modulation, but I like it.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's really effective. I think the She's Gone kind
Speaker 2: of song. More more recently, I don't use so much
Speaker 2: modulation anymore.
Speaker 1: Why is that what causes the mixed.
Speaker 2: No, I just changed. My taste changed.
Speaker 1: It's not an intellectual thing, now.
Speaker 2: You know what it is to many too many shitty
Speaker 2: songs modulated. A modulation is a trick to take something
Speaker 2: mediocre and make it sound like it's better than it is.
Speaker 1: In a lot of cases, was there ever the thought
Speaker 1: after abandon Lunchinette to do something more on your own?
Speaker 2: That's what I decided that I wanted. It's a strange
Speaker 2: thing I started for getting that sort of Okay, I
Speaker 2: want to go out there and do this on myself
Speaker 2: at that period of time, but I was in an
Speaker 2: environment with people who did not want to hear about it,
Speaker 2: and they did everything they could over all those years
Speaker 2: to stop me and stop my impulses to do that
Speaker 2: and try and keep me He'd be aligned if you
Speaker 2: want the truth to be, and keep me doing what
Speaker 2: they were making money from.
Speaker 1: Was that label pressure?
Speaker 2: It was label management everything.
Speaker 1: When did your relationship with Tommy Mottola start?
Speaker 2: It started back around that whole Oats period. Really. He
Speaker 2: was working in Chapel Music and he had an office
Speaker 2: the size of the closet, and we went up there
Speaker 2: with John Madeira and we were doing something I don't
Speaker 2: even know why. I guess John was trying and the
Speaker 2: Lisa's lease is publishing or something, and I got started
Speaker 2: talking to Tommy, and Tommy wanted to be a manager.
Speaker 2: You know he had big ambitions, and I guess he
Speaker 2: heard me play something or whatever, and he said, why
Speaker 2: don't you you you don't want to stay in Philadelphia,
Speaker 2: wants to let me manage it. And I went, well,
Speaker 2: that's interesting, okay, sure, And he kept me laughing for
Speaker 2: about fifteen years and then I woke up.
Speaker 1: When you write a song like Gino on the White album,
Speaker 1: that's about Tommy.
Speaker 2: Matola, right, I was speaking truth right there.
Speaker 1: Did he find that funny at the time or.
Speaker 2: He acted like he was he thought it was funny.
Speaker 2: I assume he was smart enough to realize what it
Speaker 2: was about.
Speaker 1: How'd you come up with the course on that? That's
Speaker 1: such a.
Speaker 2: Strange used to say shit like that, hard works being
Speaker 2: something you know and lift fast. I laughing, That's all
Speaker 2: he did, just laugh all the time. No, no herd
Speaker 2: of masking, nothing for nothing, and that's straight out of
Speaker 2: his mouth.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more from Daryl Hall after
Speaker 1: the break. I want to talk about Todd run Gren
Speaker 1: and David Foster, because you do War Babies with Todd
Speaker 1: run Gren, you do a couple of records with David Foster.
Speaker 1: To hear you say that a reef kind of opens
Speaker 1: you up and allows you to sort of put all
Speaker 1: these different styles and kinds of music together. Makes sense
Speaker 1: to me because it's very hard to make sense of
Speaker 1: your career in the sense of it's so broad. It's
Speaker 1: I mean, you make a record with the Reef, David Foster,
Speaker 1: Todd Rundgren, Robert Fripp. I mean, like, it's just it's
Speaker 1: it's insane, it's different, it's incredible.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I I, as you can imagine,
Speaker 2: I'm an adventurous soul and I and I'm not afraid.
Speaker 2: I like to try things. I like to expand myself.
Speaker 2: I like to put myself in sometimes uncomfortable situations, but
Speaker 2: usually just in creatively, creatively exciting situations and see what
Speaker 2: comes out of it. Todd was the first one that
Speaker 2: I did like that. I mean, I have very mixed
Speaker 2: feelings about the War Babies album. I mean, I think
Speaker 2: there was a lot of great ideas on it. To me,
Speaker 2: it sounds like squirrels on acid. I mean, I you know,
Speaker 2: it's just sorry. You know, people talk about that album
Speaker 2: like and I go, okay, well glad you like it.
Speaker 2: But at least it was an attempt to break out
Speaker 2: of something and be open to the world, be open
Speaker 2: to the musical world. And I tried to keep that attitude.
Speaker 2: And I certainly kept that attitude when I worked with Robert,
Speaker 2: and that was the point, except that I was more
Speaker 2: controlled within that. And I think what I did with
Speaker 2: Robert was I was very happy with. And David Foster
Speaker 2: that was another one that it was kind of suggested.
Speaker 2: David was twenty two years old when I met him,
Speaker 2: and he had done some things with Chicago. I think
Speaker 2: we were the first bands that here were really produced.
Speaker 2: We butted heads, but at the same time, I think
Speaker 2: there was a lot of respect going on there and
Speaker 2: on both sides, and we did we did some interesting things.
Speaker 1: When you're in a situation like that and you and
Speaker 1: Oates maybe aren't as strong as a partnership as you
Speaker 1: could be, and then and you're sort of button heads
Speaker 1: with the producer also, that's gotta feel kind that's got
Speaker 1: to be a bit isolating.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean again, it was I was dealing
Speaker 2: with it like it was my show, and it was
Speaker 2: the principal characters was being the producers. And I knew
Speaker 2: what I wanted, I knew what I wanted to do,
Speaker 2: and a guy like David. He's a he's a he
Speaker 2: comes from the autocratic school where he's a great musician,
Speaker 2: and he wants people to do it his way, and
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily agree with that.
Speaker 1: All the time you mentioned you were really happy with
Speaker 1: the Robert Frue record, it blew my mind. I looked
Speaker 1: back at the dates, and you guys recorded that the
Speaker 1: month after he wraps Heroes with David Powe, and then
Speaker 1: he's in the sudo with you the next month, and
Speaker 1: you guys are making what's your first solo record?
Speaker 2: I met Robert and uh. I was actually playing a
Speaker 2: gig in Toronto, and Robert happened to be there and
Speaker 2: he came backstage and we instantly clicked. And he was
Speaker 2: right at the time going to he was very involved
Speaker 2: with in the gurgiaf philosophy thing, you know, and and
Speaker 2: he was going away to retreat and he said, I'm
Speaker 2: going to you know, this is Robert's way. I'm going
Speaker 2: to away to retreat for about six months, and then
Speaker 2: when we come back, why don't you and I get
Speaker 2: together and make some music together. And I said, sure, okay,
Speaker 2: this sounds good. And he decided he was going to
Speaker 2: move to New York City after the Gurgiaff thing and
Speaker 2: sort of immerse himself in New York and that's what
Speaker 2: Heroes happened and all that. And he and I started
Speaker 2: paling around together really, and we recorded the Sacred Songs album.
Speaker 2: I had a few songs and some of the songs
Speaker 2: we recorded on the spot and just made up with
Speaker 2: the spot and we did it in town in New York.
Speaker 2: And then he said, Okay, well I want to make
Speaker 2: a record. Let's do the same thing for my record.
Speaker 2: So we made a record that became Exposure Robert record
Speaker 2: called Exposure. And that was my first setback because we
Speaker 2: recorded and wrote the songs together, and my label said
Speaker 2: that they wouldn't allow me to use my vocals on
Speaker 2: the record. I finally got them to let me use
Speaker 2: I think two or three, and he had the task
Speaker 2: of trying to find someone or people and who could
Speaker 2: copy or have some kind of reasonable try to copy
Speaker 2: the vocals that I had come up with on the record,
Speaker 2: which luckily he found some people who were pretty good
Speaker 2: to do it. But Mayam, was it frustrating. I realized
Speaker 2: that I was really in trouble, that I was really
Speaker 2: being locked into something that I didn't see having an
Speaker 2: happy ending.
Speaker 1: It's wild that you say that, because it from the outside,
Speaker 1: it doesn't trucking.
Speaker 2: Keep on trucking. I had no choice. And here's the thing.
Speaker 2: Not only did I keep on trucking because Robert was saying, Okay,
Speaker 2: let's put a band together and start doing this for real.
Speaker 2: And then suddenly I had a commitment to our cia,
Speaker 2: to Gwin. And that's when Voices album happened, and the
Speaker 2: whole fucking world blew up for Hall of Oates, and
Speaker 2: then I was really stuck in the groove with the
Speaker 2: situation I was in.
Speaker 1: Did you hear any of that stuff he had been
Speaker 1: doing with Bowie that Frip had been doing with Bowie
Speaker 1: around that time?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Sure, I was pretty familiar with with that whole scene.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I knew Brian, you know, and and uh and and
Speaker 2: Robert and I got to know Peter Gabriel and I
Speaker 2: worked with lou Reid and we actually hold us believe
Speaker 2: it or not, we opened for a tour, a lou
Speaker 2: Reed tour you did, so it's hard to believe what
Speaker 2: we did. Yeah, and uh, and I knew David and
Speaker 2: uh so, I mean, yeah, I'm much familiar with all
Speaker 2: this stuff that was going on, right.
Speaker 1: Because you guys opened for David Bowie too around seventy
Speaker 1: two ish, really early.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: How was lou Reid on the tour?
Speaker 2: He was? It was the Sally Can't Dance No More tour,
Speaker 2: I Can't dance no More? Uh yeah, And uh he
Speaker 2: was strange, man. I mean, it's to say that, it's
Speaker 2: just to be obvious. I lou was. Lou Is a
Speaker 2: very unusual man, and I kind of liked him. I
Speaker 2: liked I like this attitude. I liked the he was.
Speaker 2: He just didn't give a fuck. You know, he was
Speaker 2: a curmudgeon. But yet he wasn't you know. There was
Speaker 2: a lot going on with lou Reid that I think
Speaker 2: more than people even realize. And I wound up living
Speaker 2: in New York City. I live next door to him,
Speaker 2: So I mean, not only was I did I go
Speaker 2: on tour with it, but I used to see him
Speaker 2: walking his dog and things like that. And I wouldn't
Speaker 2: say he was a friendly man, but you know.
Speaker 1: Would you talk though, would you you know, keep a cordial.
Speaker 2: And he's like I'd say something to me, go, how
Speaker 2: you doing?
Speaker 1: What do you make of a songwriting?
Speaker 2: I was. I was just with Dave Stewart, and Dave
Speaker 2: Stewart has a book of Lou Reed's lyrics, and I
Speaker 2: was in between doing stuff that we were doing. This
Speaker 2: just happened last week and I started reading his lyrics
Speaker 2: and the early stuff, the de velovet stuff. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's good, it's it's just it's it's completely different than
Speaker 2: anybody else. I mean, you take a song like I
Speaker 2: don't Know, Sister Ray or something like that. I mean,
Speaker 2: the words are just amazing. It's like it's a slice
Speaker 2: of life, but ugly life and a fucked up life.
Speaker 2: But it's you know, he he managed to create a
Speaker 2: mood that was based on something that really was and
Speaker 2: I respect him.
Speaker 1: I thought about him a bit when I was listening
Speaker 1: back through your records because with Lou it always felt
Speaker 1: like there was he knew how to write a pop
Speaker 1: song and just subverted it out of it, you know,
Speaker 1: and it felt like you could do either thing, Like
Speaker 1: it felt like you could write the perfect pop song,
Speaker 1: you could write the most subversive weird thing. With Robert Free,
Speaker 1: i mean it's like and everything in between, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's that describes by the way my
Speaker 2: brain works I can. I can do it go both ways,
Speaker 2: you know, or a lot of ways. I always say,
Speaker 2: I speak a lot of musical languages. Yeah, do you remember?
Speaker 2: Do you remember any of water Wheel? I remember, but
Speaker 2: I would never be able to sing it because my
Speaker 2: voice saying near that high anymore? Man, I hear you
Speaker 2: call me that I wrote that. I was just out
Speaker 2: of high school when I wrote that. You know the
Speaker 2: Philly scene it was. It was a really strange thing.
Speaker 2: There was a big folk scene going on too, and
Speaker 2: I heard I heard something that made me want to
Speaker 2: write that. I don't remember what it was, and it
Speaker 2: was it was basically written in that tradition, and it
Speaker 2: was certainly different than anything I was doing. When I say,
Speaker 2: working with game.
Speaker 1: On of some It's interesting how nostalgic you can be
Speaker 1: just out of high school.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. I think all these songs I wrote,
Speaker 2: I seem to be obsessed with writing songs about nostalgia
Speaker 2: and being older and all that when I was just
Speaker 2: a kid. I don't know why I thought that way,
Speaker 2: don't ask me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but to be able to write a song like
Speaker 1: water Wheel wasn't a hit, but sounds in so many
Speaker 1: ways like a perfect pop song from that era of
Speaker 1: when songs sounded like that. Then to be able to
Speaker 1: go and do something like you know, I mean just
Speaker 1: United State, you know, on voices, and then to do
Speaker 1: I mean one of my favorites like I'm in a
Speaker 1: Philly mood, you know, in like ninety three ninety four.
Speaker 1: I mean that you have that kind of a range
Speaker 1: and can write in all of these various styles, these
Speaker 1: things that are just like deep and incredible. Is something else?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean I won't ask me why I
Speaker 2: can do that, but I seem to have the ability
Speaker 2: to do it. My ears are open and I have
Speaker 2: I have that facility. I guess I would never be
Speaker 2: able to explain that.
Speaker 1: And by the way, you just want to say you
Speaker 1: put your voice down. But I watched the The Frip
Speaker 1: live at Daryl's house, you and Robert Fripp and your
Speaker 1: version of NYC and why that you did probably what
Speaker 1: just two years ago sounds better than the record still
Speaker 1: do that. We should talk about Dave Stewart because you
Speaker 1: did a record with him in the eighties. I think
Speaker 1: your third or second solo record. You guys just did
Speaker 1: a record together last year. D How did you guys
Speaker 1: come together.
Speaker 2: Like many thinks, I met him. I just met him.
Speaker 2: Somebody introduced me to him and they said, actually, somebody
Speaker 2: said that you guys should get together. I think you
Speaker 2: enjoy each other's company. And he was I've lived in
Speaker 2: London for a lot of time. I don't live there
Speaker 2: right now, but I for years and years I lived
Speaker 2: in London. So I went up to his house at
Speaker 2: the time, he was living up in made of Vale,
Speaker 2: and I went in and we immediately started. I mean
Speaker 2: I literally went into his house. He says, come downstairs,
Speaker 2: and we started writing a all. That was the way
Speaker 2: I met Dave Stewart. We've been friends ever since. You know,
Speaker 2: we just get along. I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2: And he makes me feel creatively. He's a very stimulating person.
Speaker 2: He makes me feel alive. He's a gigantic bundle of energy.
Speaker 2: And he's extremely smart and extremely full of ideas, like
Speaker 2: I can't even tell you heaven and it never stops
Speaker 2: with him, and I don't know, he's just fun to
Speaker 2: be with and and so over the years we've we
Speaker 2: made that record, we made the Three Hearts album and
Speaker 2: I have a great time doing it. And then over
Speaker 2: the years we've we've written a few things and done
Speaker 2: things together, and he's played on some of the records
Speaker 2: and done things with him. And more recently, I told
Speaker 2: him about the place I live in the Bahamas and
Speaker 2: he wound up buying a house down there, so we're
Speaker 2: neighbors now. On top of it all, you know, it's family.
Speaker 2: It's really come family with them.
Speaker 1: You might have figured out the life if you're moving
Speaker 1: between New York, London and the bas that's a good triangle.
Speaker 1: This might be the perfect triangle. His stuff with the
Speaker 1: rhythmics is I mean his stuff in general, but I
Speaker 1: mean that rhythmic stuff. To this day, I've been revisiting
Speaker 1: it because I've been playing it for my kids, and
Speaker 1: that stuff's mind blowing. Still.
Speaker 2: He wrote those songs you don't Yeah, And that's his productions.
Speaker 2: And he's a great singer by the way, which doesn't
Speaker 2: hurt you know. She sang the ship out of that stuff.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean he he has a great body
Speaker 2: of work.
Speaker 1: The sounds you guys got on the new record, like
Speaker 1: the I mean the whole World's Better. Yeah, beautiful sound.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that song I love. I love playing that. Recently
Speaker 2: in my latest tours, I'm starting the show with that
Speaker 2: because there's just something about it. Then, you know, when
Speaker 2: you just bang that thing out, you know that you
Speaker 2: know it just wow, it just makes you stand up.
Speaker 2: That song. I wrote that song about one subject and
Speaker 2: I had most of that song and then it turned
Speaker 2: into something else and it became anthemic, and that was
Speaker 2: Dave's idea to put the you know, you know in
Speaker 2: the end, and we just had people come in, friends
Speaker 2: from the from the island, They come in and sang,
Speaker 2: so it became a real communal, athemic kind of song.
Speaker 1: What was what was the song originally about?
Speaker 2: It was about like many of my songs, I had
Speaker 2: a very tempestuous relationship with the with the my late
Speaker 2: wife and I don't know, she was so moody with
Speaker 2: what I would hear her singing in the kitchen. Everything
Speaker 2: got better. That's where it started.
Speaker 1: Is there an early version of that that you can
Speaker 1: share a bit of.
Speaker 2: No, not really, because I had the chorus and that's
Speaker 2: when that was. That was the original, and then I
Speaker 2: had I had the chords of the song, but I
Speaker 2: didn't have the words, and that's when it turned into
Speaker 2: something else. You know, When when I was with Dave
Speaker 2: and I had a melody without any words to go
Speaker 2: with it, and and that we you know, I wrote
Speaker 2: with his major help. I wrote the lyrics.
Speaker 1: Would would you mind giving us a little of the
Speaker 1: choruses because they gave us a bit and it's it's
Speaker 1: too good to the choruses.
Speaker 4: When you snots again or when use nuts again?
Speaker 2: Here it is.
Speaker 1: It's a moving song. It's a moving song. You know.
Speaker 2: It comes from a real emotion. Everything comes from something real.
Speaker 2: And people ask me, what you know, your new new
Speaker 2: musician in the world, what do you do? I said,
Speaker 2: you got to believe it, you gotta you gotta live it.
Speaker 2: You got it's got to be something that almost makes
Speaker 2: you makes you want to cry inside, or does make
Speaker 2: you cry inside?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: Just me playing that, I just got a feeling in
Speaker 2: my throat because it brought back the memories of when
Speaker 2: I wrote it. Uh yeah like that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? You know you mentioned your late wife Sarah Allen
Speaker 1: Jena Allen were incredible inspirations and collaborators crowded Doubt along
Speaker 1: your career, both Sarah and Jana.
Speaker 2: They played such a large part in the song from
Speaker 2: the eighties Jada originated in private eyes. I mean and
Speaker 2: she originated kiss on My List. I mean things like that.
Speaker 2: We I mean they were complete collaborations and Sarah it
Speaker 2: was it is a really good lyric really good lyricist.
Speaker 2: Did she contributed a lot?
Speaker 1: Did they figure how to channel that from being around you?
Speaker 2: Or I think so? I don't know if I just
Speaker 2: gave it off. I mean there were both musical people,
Speaker 2: and especially Jana. I mean, Janna is a guitar player
Speaker 2: and a singer and all that. Sandy is a singer,
Speaker 2: but you know, more just a music lover. And yeah,
Speaker 2: I think proximity had to do with it. And I
Speaker 2: don't know, something rubbed off and they just came up
Speaker 2: with really good ideas and they would throw them out
Speaker 2: and just to compliment things really add to the quality
Speaker 2: of whatever it is that I was coming up with.
Speaker 1: How would Janna bring like a private eyes to you?
Speaker 2: She actually made a demo of that. The chorus was there,
Speaker 2: but then I kind of fleshed out the verses. I
Speaker 2: changed either that's a pretty complicated chord progression, all the chords,
Speaker 2: and so that had to do with me and I
Speaker 2: was doing that, but she came up with privatized Why
Speaker 2: shouldn't you you removed. She she came up with that.
Speaker 2: That was sir.
Speaker 1: Can you play through a bit of those that chord
Speaker 1: progression you were?
Speaker 2: Okay, let's see here. I can't believe that.
Speaker 5: I have to think about it, watching you, watching you,
Speaker 5: watch and watching you, watching you, watching you.
Speaker 1: Man. So she had those chords or she.
Speaker 2: Came up with the chords. Well, okay, uh, watching you
Speaker 2: watching you? That's me, you can tell right, I read
Speaker 2: that she but her was a ship. She came up
Speaker 2: with that.
Speaker 1: Wow, what a gift.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well she had one, and talk about you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know man's tragedy sometimes. I mean, she died,
Speaker 2: really she died. She got the leukemia and died. She
Speaker 2: was thirty nine years old and I'm still misser.
Speaker 1: Did that impact you and Sarah are working together? Oh?
Speaker 2: Sarah was my But did it impact it? I can't
Speaker 2: say it didn't. It kind of put disruption in our family.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that kind of personal stuff. Would you put that
Speaker 1: into music?
Speaker 2: I do all the time. I'm not afraid to put
Speaker 2: it all out there. The most obvious one is the
Speaker 2: one that the album and the new album. I'd rather
Speaker 2: be a fool, I mean, soar the end of that song.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying it.
Speaker 1: When you put something like that down, does it ever
Speaker 1: give you pause?
Speaker 2: I'm not afraid I put my emotions right out there
Speaker 2: rather be a fool. It's a very direct version of that.
Speaker 2: You can't look at my music without here and the
Speaker 2: reality of it. It's just it's all in there.
Speaker 1: Does it ever caused maybe not problems. Has it ever
Speaker 1: caused friction with people that you're close to.
Speaker 2: I think I've made some people sad. I'm saying that
Speaker 2: with a smirk of my face, which is terrible, so
Speaker 2: I don't feel smirky about it. But I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, the truth arts sometimes, and that doesn't mean
Speaker 2: you can't speak the truth.
Speaker 1: I had a conversation with Michael McDonald about a year ago,
Speaker 1: maybe a year and a half ago, and he told
Speaker 1: a story about I think it was I can't remember
Speaker 1: which Doobe's record it was now, but one of the
Speaker 1: records wasn't doing so well, and one of the black
Speaker 1: an hours at Warner said like, this should go on,
Speaker 1: this should go on black radio, you know, living on
Speaker 1: the fault line, that's what it was, and sending a
Speaker 1: black radio. Black radio loved it and kind of saved
Speaker 1: that version of the band. But it occurred to me, like,
Speaker 1: you know, like the Doobies, there's a lot, there was
Speaker 1: a number of groups like that that they they kind
Speaker 1: of got eventually pigeonholed as yacht rock. But really what
Speaker 1: it was was just they were just R and B guys.
Speaker 1: They're just making R and B records, and they were white,
Speaker 1: and so.
Speaker 2: This is something I don't understand. First of all, yacht
Speaker 2: rock was a fucking joke by two jerk offs in California,
Speaker 2: and suddenly it became a genre and I don't even
Speaker 2: understand it. I never understood it. And I totally, man,
Speaker 2: I'm glad you say that it's just R and B.
Speaker 2: It's just another with some maybe some jazz in there.
Speaker 2: It's mellow R and B. It's it's it's it's it's
Speaker 2: smooth R and B. Yeah, I don't see what the
Speaker 2: yacht part is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it seemed like, you know, it seemed like
Speaker 1: like with the Doobies, for instance, like they like because
Speaker 1: they were white guys, they didn't know where to not
Speaker 1: all of them, but the majority of Michael McDonald's white,
Speaker 1: and it's like they didn't know where to put it.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, I can't go on Black Bead because
Speaker 1: the guys aren't black. But you know, the white audience
Speaker 1: they want to hear, you know, whatever they want. But
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like you guys necessarily ever had that issue.
Speaker 1: From my vantage point, I don't know if you feel
Speaker 1: that way.
Speaker 2: I was more of a pioneer. I mean my music.
Speaker 2: When I was I had a group called the Tenttones,
Speaker 2: and and and I had a you know, pretty like
Speaker 2: a top twenty hit in Philadelphia, you know, one w
Speaker 2: Das and and Sarah's Smile broke on on on R
Speaker 2: and B on on black radio. It had to make
Speaker 2: its way to pop radio. That's how Hollanolds started. That
Speaker 2: was that's our origins. And uh, people misjudged us and
Speaker 2: and and and uh because they couldn't label us, and
Speaker 2: they always they came up with all this kind of
Speaker 2: crab soft rock and yacht rock and all this other nonsense.
Speaker 2: And none of the none of it really describes anything
Speaker 2: that I do, really, yeah, or doesn't describe it any
Speaker 2: anybody does.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize sarah Smile broke on on black radio first, Yeah, out.
Speaker 2: Of out of Ohio RB station in Ohio not Dayton,
Speaker 2: but some place like that. Uh, and then it spread
Speaker 2: through the ARMBA charts, and it wasn't until after it
Speaker 2: was a it was a gigantic record in the arm
Speaker 2: BAT charts that it went to. Uh pop radio makes sense.
Speaker 1: I mean that is that is a hell of a
Speaker 1: soulful record. And listening to a recently, I've always played guitar,
Speaker 1: so I was always taken by the guitar part, and
Speaker 1: I love vocals, so I was always thinking about the vocal.
Speaker 1: Hadn't paid proper attention to the bass till recently. But
Speaker 1: I think it was Leland scar on there.
Speaker 2: I think it was.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: The guy that played that amazing guitar solo was Christopher
Speaker 2: Bond and that is one of the most beautiful, amazing
Speaker 2: introduction guitar solos ever written.
Speaker 1: It really is. I mean, the notes played, in the
Speaker 1: way it's played, that the way he approaches it.
Speaker 2: What an amazing guy. He was a very unusual guy.
Speaker 2: He's unfortunately that's anymore.
Speaker 1: Your vocal runs on there too, are I mean, just
Speaker 1: your your choices vocally are I mean?
Speaker 2: And I would just be in again just I don't
Speaker 2: know that that can that that was a real that
Speaker 2: was reality man. I wrote that song like a postcard
Speaker 2: the Sandy Sarah Allen and oh there it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be back with the rest of my conversation
Speaker 1: with Daryl Hall. How would you approach in the studio
Speaker 1: like a song like a loan just thinking of that
Speaker 1: album now, like a loone too Long? That was it?
Speaker 1: That's a John song, right, that's a John song. How
Speaker 1: much would you involve yourself with John songs? I guess
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: I would do all all the backgrounds and everything. I
Speaker 2: would fletch out. John would have the song, uh, and
Speaker 2: this goes with any of his songs, so that the
Speaker 2: world on a whole of this record like had I
Speaker 2: Known You Better Than or something like that, and and
Speaker 2: and Alone Too Long? And I would come up with
Speaker 2: a vocal arrangement that would accompany his song, and and
Speaker 2: do all the parts singing. If it was a three
Speaker 2: part harm I'd sing three parts. And I mean, when
Speaker 2: you listen to all of its records, that's all me singing.
Speaker 2: Like kiss on my lists, that's all me sing in
Speaker 2: the backgrounds. Occasionally John would sing apart on a record,
Speaker 2: and sometimes he would I would sing the parts and
Speaker 2: then tell him to sing over one of the parts.
Speaker 2: That's how we did it. I mean I did it.
Speaker 2: Excuse me?
Speaker 1: Was there anything in your view special about your blends?
Speaker 1: Just the way your voices would blend.
Speaker 6: Well, the reason to blend, because it was all me.
Speaker 6: If I could blend with myself, then when might you, though, decide?
Speaker 6: John sing this? I got something for you? Sing this?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: When would that occur to you?
Speaker 2: Because I wouldn't add is tambre to the to the background.
Speaker 2: It was. It was one of those things. I mean,
Speaker 2: John has a very.
Speaker 1: Distinct voice, and it's not a bad voice either.
Speaker 2: Hey I'm not putting that down. But and and on
Speaker 2: stage you could tell we were working together. I mean
Speaker 2: it was you wouldn't know in a million years. But
Speaker 2: he was more of a take dictation kind of a singer,
Speaker 2: you know, like sing this.
Speaker 1: I mentioned I'm in a Philly mood. That's one of
Speaker 1: those songs that makes me wish I was actually from Philly,
Speaker 1: which I could say I'm in a Philly mood the
Speaker 1: whole record. But I mean that that song is incredible. Borderline,
Speaker 1: you have a Mariah sing backgrounds on a song and
Speaker 1: co wrote a song.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she wrote what was that one?
Speaker 1: Helped me find a way.
Speaker 2: And the way to your heart. Yeah, yeah, that was
Speaker 2: a sorry I wrote with Mariah Yet Philly Mood is
Speaker 2: one of my favorite songs I ever wrote. I play
Speaker 2: that every show. I love singing it. I like playing it.
Speaker 2: It really describes the way I feel, the way I
Speaker 2: felt and again the scenes that I was creating. And
Speaker 2: boy is that real. That's a very emotional song to me,
Speaker 2: kind of like Tony Bennett's I Left My Heart and
Speaker 2: San Francisco. It's the mood man, It's that's it. Phill,
Speaker 2: we moved.
Speaker 1: You worked with a couple of folks from the Family Stand,
Speaker 1: which I feel like that group is sort of maybe
Speaker 1: lost the time a bit.
Speaker 2: But they were really really cool. They were really cool.
Speaker 2: I don't know why that didn't really stick around, you know.
Speaker 2: They and and Peter and Jeff that's Peter Lord and
Speaker 2: Jeff Smith. That was a really interesting combo that we
Speaker 2: had going that was a talk about Philly Mood. You know,
Speaker 2: Peter was really good. He egged me on, you know,
Speaker 2: he really he brought a certain thing out of me
Speaker 2: that I don't think anybody anybody else has, you know,
Speaker 2: And I think that that sol Loan record sort of
Speaker 2: reflects that, and he reflects the mood the thing that
Speaker 2: he brought out in me.
Speaker 1: Do you think you can put into words what he
Speaker 1: brought out of you?
Speaker 2: No, I can't. It's it's just something that certain kind
Speaker 2: of jazz soul thing that I occasionally do. But brought
Speaker 2: that to the front.
Speaker 1: When you did. It helped me find a way heart
Speaker 1: With Mariah. I think Emotions maybe had been a hit
Speaker 1: at that point, but we were very familiar with her.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. It was Tommy Matola's girlfriend, right, I mean,
Speaker 2: my god, And and she actually came up with with
Speaker 2: she came up with a chorus of that and she
Speaker 2: and she played it for me and then I went
Speaker 2: from there.
Speaker 1: So that song started with her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was. She sent me that, she sent me
Speaker 2: a tape would help me find a way to your heart,
Speaker 2: and then I, U, I kind of enhanced it.
Speaker 1: I always feel like people sleep on Mariah as a songwriter,
Speaker 1: you know, as someone who can write a song.
Speaker 2: I think Mariah is a very talented person, as we
Speaker 2: all know, and but I think that they she got
Speaker 2: into that old diva thing and and you know, with
Speaker 2: the big voice and and all over the place voice,
Speaker 2: and but that kind of takes away from the source
Speaker 2: of it, you know, the fact that she can put
Speaker 2: together a good song. She's she's good Man. Mariah's happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, were you to do any more Live from Darryl's House?
Speaker 2: Zach going one on Tuesday? And I'm not going to
Speaker 2: tell you with who because I never do. But yeah,
Speaker 2: that's that's an ongoing project. I've been doing it for
Speaker 2: a long time, and uh, I've decided instead of doing
Speaker 2: whole season, so I'm just going to do occasional ones,
Speaker 2: maybe in groups of one and two, three or something
Speaker 2: like that, and just keep adding to my YouTube channel.
Speaker 1: What does that add to your life, your creative life
Speaker 1: doing that show?
Speaker 2: I love it. I loved Life from Darrel's House. I
Speaker 2: love doing it is It's the most stimulating experience that
Speaker 2: you can imagine because we don't do any rehearsing, only
Speaker 2: the most rudimentary of do. We know what's happening, and
Speaker 2: so everybody is completely on their toes doing it for
Speaker 2: the first time. There's an artist in there that may
Speaker 2: or may not be comfortable, and I have to make
Speaker 2: them comfortable. Sometimes they're you know, sometimes there's especially the
Speaker 2: the heritage artists. They're stuck in their ways and I
Speaker 2: have to unstick them. You know. There's there's so many
Speaker 2: things going on, and then we have those amazing you know,
Speaker 2: conversations around dinner and the whole thing. It's an amazing experience.
Speaker 2: Usually takes me two days to recover from one.
Speaker 1: Have you ever come out of one feeling like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe I should maybe we could do a whole a
Speaker 1: whole record together, you know?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I I I've gotten a lot of people.
Speaker 2: I mean, what I've been doing instead of making records together,
Speaker 2: like Okay, I'm going out on the road. Glenn Tilbrook, uh,
Speaker 2: and that I'm going to be working with him all year.
Speaker 2: I think off and on and he's a he's an
Speaker 2: LFDH lift Darrel's House to alumni at this point, you know.
Speaker 2: So I think that I came up with this idea
Speaker 2: based on the how we work together that way, and
Speaker 2: there's anumber. You know, there's a lot of artists like that.
Speaker 2: Howard Jones is another one that I've done. Todd obviously,
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's what I do on stage now.
Speaker 2: I do a version of life from Darrel's House.
Speaker 1: And that's maybe more because I just think I mean
Speaker 1: that that that you can get and must especially heritage artists,
Speaker 1: that you can get them to come and play in
Speaker 1: that way that you do and get them comfortable, but
Speaker 1: also sort of be on the edge a bit of
Speaker 1: we don't exactly know what we're doing, but we know
Speaker 1: exactly you know what we're doing. Like that's like, that's
Speaker 1: that's it. I mean, you're basically producing these people, and
Speaker 1: that's not something that I think they're always accustomed to.
Speaker 2: You know, I am, I am doing exactly that on
Speaker 2: the spot, and you're right, they're people aren't accustomed to it.
Speaker 2: Oddly enough, the brand new artists are the easiest ones
Speaker 2: because they don't know what's going on. They're just like
Speaker 2: puppy dogs. They're like, yeah, let's go, let's do it.
Speaker 2: You know, you're taking a guy who's been around for
Speaker 2: as long as me, and he's like, am I doing
Speaker 2: the right thing here? My fucking up? You know, this
Speaker 2: isn't the way I always sing this song.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was interesting even seeing the Fruit I
Speaker 1: just watched it. I didn't really know that Robert Frup
Speaker 1: had been on that. I didn't know why how I
Speaker 1: missed that one, But I was watching that last week,
Speaker 1: and even he seemed a little you know, me as
Speaker 1: a interest as they come, but even he seemed a
Speaker 1: little a little nervous.
Speaker 2: You know, Well Robert is a very controlled person, but
Speaker 2: with an amazing sense of humor. I got to add,
Speaker 2: but but I know he was he was good. He
Speaker 2: was he was fine. I think he just was really
Speaker 2: he wanted to He'd been wanting to do this for
Speaker 2: a long time, is what it was. Is we been
Speaker 2: trying to get together for years and it finally happened.
Speaker 2: And maybe that that showed, you.
Speaker 1: Know, seeing you guys, do I think it's NYC And
Speaker 1: why that hasn't like just insane opening riff?
Speaker 2: It didn't really really how did he come up with that?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: He's insane and he's like, you know, I haven't done
Speaker 1: this in forty something year, you know, just like oh this,
Speaker 1: that's the level of his genius, is that he's just
Speaker 1: these things are just coming out of them. You know.
Speaker 2: He's unbelievable, is what he is.
Speaker 1: If I wrote that riff, I would never stop playing it.
Speaker 2: He just was up with that ship. That's just another
Speaker 2: riff for you know, were you into King Crimson?
Speaker 1: In the day.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I was very much into that to
Speaker 2: his version of progressive rock. Well, I was into him.
Speaker 2: This is what I was into. I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: we did do red From on the show, and I'm
Speaker 2: so proud of my band. They just played that now.
Speaker 2: Roberts said, I have never been in any organization that
Speaker 2: ever played that song that it didn't take at least
Speaker 2: three days to learn it. And these guys just play it.
Speaker 2: They just listened to it at home by themselves. We
Speaker 2: got together and we played the Motherbucker, you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's one band I got, but that comes you know,
Speaker 2: my love for King Crimson comes from back then. The
Speaker 2: Lark's tungun aspect and all that stuff. I mean I heard,
Speaker 2: I heard the power and the soul in it, and
Speaker 2: I heard the the Stravinsky in it. I heard everything
Speaker 2: in it. I think that he's a very unique musician.
Speaker 1: I don't want to keep it too much longer, but
Speaker 1: I do want to return to I feel like maybe
Speaker 1: I glossed over Christopher Bond. We mentioned him a couple
Speaker 1: of times during the conversation, so he comes in in
Speaker 1: during the band in lunchonette. Was it a reef that
Speaker 1: brought him in.
Speaker 2: No, he was. He's a Philly guy. He was. He
Speaker 2: was in our band, John and I had our little quartet,
Speaker 2: and he was. He was. He was one of the guys.
Speaker 1: He was in your bad. I didn't realize he was
Speaker 1: in yeah in the in the beginning, Yeah, someone else
Speaker 1: from Philly. I was just scurious what happened to Jim Hellner,
Speaker 1: who was the drummer Gulliver played on Whole Oats incredible
Speaker 1: drum parts on that record.
Speaker 2: I know it was good. I lost track of Jim.
Speaker 2: I lost track of all those guys. I know Tim
Speaker 2: Moore he was, he was a songwriter, guitar player. He
Speaker 2: was a woodstock. That's all I know. But I don't
Speaker 2: know anything. I have no idea what happened to Jim.
Speaker 1: Just wander well, I have you. I just that always
Speaker 1: bugged me. Just did into what happened to him.
Speaker 2: Definitely the first person ever asked me about Jim mill
Speaker 2: Which is cool.
Speaker 1: Just bat and clean up here. I do want to
Speaker 1: ask you about G. E. Smith too. How important do
Speaker 1: you feel he was to that version of Holland Oates.
Speaker 2: I think he added his very large personality to things.
Speaker 2: I think that his guitar work on the records that
Speaker 2: he played on on holl Ofotes Records, Well, it was
Speaker 2: really really exceptional, I did. I think he did a
Speaker 2: lot of things that were really amazing. He didn't get
Speaker 2: the way he added the ge sound to it, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm again a great guitar.
Speaker 1: Player, and that the ge sound wasn't really you know,
Speaker 1: a thing that I'd been on records like that before,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, you guys really were the first
Speaker 1: to get him like that. Yeah, oh, give me.
Speaker 2: A brand new He was straight out of He's from Stroudsburgh, Pennsylvania. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: and I met him when he had just moved out
Speaker 2: of there.
Speaker 1: Basically, did you just let him go or was there
Speaker 1: much shaping? Would you talk through parts with him?
Speaker 2: Or I'd let him go, but I would let him
Speaker 2: go within a controlled situation, you know, I mean and
Speaker 2: tell him what I thought. And if he did something
Speaker 2: I didn't like, I'd say tell him that too. You know.
Speaker 2: He usually did the right thing.
Speaker 1: Is that a good relationship overall?
Speaker 2: Or we had a we had a Leslie good relationship
Speaker 2: because he's he's uh, he's a strange guy.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: I mean, he I don't know how to put it. Personality,
Speaker 2: his personality of mine weren't exactly in line. That's the
Speaker 2: best way I'll put it. I could put it.
Speaker 1: I think that's a way that everyone can understand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it doesn't diminish the talent. Yeah, at this point, set
Speaker 1: list wise, when you go do dates, how are you
Speaker 1: picking a set list?
Speaker 2: I do a little. Well, I'm I'm going to try
Speaker 2: and emphasize the d album, but I think I'm going
Speaker 2: to do about four songs from that. That's that's that's
Speaker 2: my plan. Well, I'm already I've already been doing that.
Speaker 2: And uh, other than that, I play things from whatever,
Speaker 2: you know, from whatever my history is. And there's certain
Speaker 2: songs that you have to play. I mean I have
Speaker 2: to play Sarah Smile, which is fine with me. You know.
Speaker 2: I mix it up. I play Philly Mood, I play
Speaker 2: all kinds of things.
Speaker 1: Well, Daryl Hall, thank you so much for talking about
Speaker 1: all of this. I mean, it's a hell of a
Speaker 1: musical history. So I mean, thank you well, thanks for
Speaker 1: having me man. In episode description, you'll find a link
Speaker 1: to a playlist of our favorite Darryl Hall tracks. Be
Speaker 1: sure to check out YouTube dot com, slash Broken Record
Speaker 1: to see all of our video interviews and be sure
Speaker 1: to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod.
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Speaker 1: by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.