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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, this is Justin Richmond from the Broken Record podcast.

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Speaker 1: Join me this June for a live taping of Broken

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Speaker 1: Record at the Tribeca Festival, where I'll be in conversation

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Speaker 1: with Infinity Song, a New York based soft rock band

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Speaker 1: comprised of four siblings who will also be doing a

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Speaker 1: couple of songs for us. You'll hear the artist and

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Speaker 1: a career spanning conversation about their inspirations and dynamic styles.

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Speaker 1: We'll be at the SVA Theater on June twelve at

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Speaker 1: eight thirty pm. Defind tickets. Visit tribecafilm dot com slash

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Speaker 1: Broken Record all lowercase. That's tribecafilm dot com slash Broken Record.

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Speaker 1: Hope to see there. Dare I say? Darylhall is one

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Speaker 1: of the great pop songwriters of our time as half

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Speaker 1: of the duo Hall and Oates, who was all over

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Speaker 1: the charts in the seventies and eighties from Sarah Smile

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Speaker 1: to Rich Girl to You Make My Dreams and Man Eater,

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Speaker 1: But beyond the hits and the pop chart is a gifted,

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Speaker 1: soulful writer and player of all sorts of songs. In

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Speaker 1: this episode of Broken Record, I talk with Daryl Hall

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Speaker 1: about his early days entrenched in Phillies armb scene, his

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Speaker 1: stint on Electra records with his band Gulliver that found

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Speaker 1: him being label mates with The Doors, how he wrote

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Speaker 1: classics like She's Gone Off, Abandoned, Leschenette, his partially shelved

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Speaker 1: album with Robert Fripp, and his latest album d a

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Speaker 1: collaboration between him and Dave Stewart of the Rhythmics. This

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Speaker 1: is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. This episode is

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Speaker 1: brought to you by Defender, a vehicle engineered to meet

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Speaker 1: challenges head on so you can explore with confidence. Adventure

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Speaker 1: Seekers and risk takers can explore the full Defender lineup

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Speaker 1: at land ROVERUSA dot com. Here's my conversation with Daryl Hall.

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Speaker 1: How you doing, I'm doing well.

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Speaker 2: How are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing okay? I overworked. I'm overworked, but I'm good.

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Speaker 3: Got it.

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Speaker 1: You gotta say some time to relax.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. One, I'd like to know when that is.

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Speaker 1: Do you do you find being busy or not having

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Speaker 1: it enough to do impacts your songwriting, your creativity.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a funny thing. I'm either too busy or

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Speaker 3: I'm a champion at the bit it's one or the other.

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Speaker 3: I'm either sitting here reading my book and go on,

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Speaker 3: oh fuck, you know what am I doing? Or I'm

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Speaker 3: overworked and I'm might pull my hair out.

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Speaker 1: You know what books do you typically read?

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Speaker 3: Oh? I read Jesus depending on my you know, if

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Speaker 3: I just want to relax, I read, you know, like

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Speaker 3: Michael Connelly books and things like that, James L. Roy,

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Speaker 3: you know. But you know I read for information. I

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Speaker 3: read constantly. Is what I do?

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Speaker 1: Is fiction a source of inspiration for you at all?

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Speaker 1: And when it comes to music.

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Speaker 3: Who is writing is a source of inspiration? A turn

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Speaker 3: of phrase, I might twist it around my own way,

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Speaker 3: adapt it to something I'm thinking about, use it in

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Speaker 3: a song. I do that all the time. I hardly ever,

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Speaker 3: actually basically never pull something directly from an author, but

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Speaker 3: I'll use it in in some some form that is

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Speaker 3: part of the expression that I'm trying to achieve, in

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Speaker 3: a verse or even maybe sometimes in a chorus.

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Speaker 1: Is there an example that comes to mind? Oh?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like say it isn't So that's an obvious one,

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Speaker 3: you know, It's just it's just part of my and

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Speaker 3: also I log it in my head. I might read

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Speaker 3: read a phrase and remember it. At some point, it'll

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Speaker 3: come back to me as I'm as I'm looking for

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Speaker 3: looking for something in a lyric.

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Speaker 1: How often do you listen to music?

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Speaker 3: I am not a good audience. I don't really listen

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Speaker 3: to music. I I make it. You know, I have

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Speaker 3: so much music in my head that I I only

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Speaker 3: don't care to hear things for what? For pleasure? I

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Speaker 3: guess you'd call it. I mean I listened for information. Occasionally,

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Speaker 3: I hear things. You know, if I'm in out and

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Speaker 3: about and I hear something come on, I might log

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Speaker 3: in my head and listen to it, say, well that's

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Speaker 3: pretty good, that kind of thing. But I don't sit

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Speaker 3: around and listen to the radio. I don't, Like I said,

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Speaker 3: I'm not a very good audience around.

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Speaker 1: When did you hit that saturation point where you're like,

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Speaker 1: I have enough music in my head that I don't

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Speaker 1: need to sit around listening anymore.

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Speaker 3: It's hard to say. You know, I was when I

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Speaker 3: was a kid and a teenager or whatever, I was

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Speaker 3: a sponge. You know, all I did was was collect

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Speaker 3: records and listen to records and do it all that

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Speaker 3: kind of thing. I don't know, I guess it was

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Speaker 3: after a while where this became a way of life

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Speaker 3: and experiences and music in general, and life experiences started

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Speaker 3: building in my head. That's when I stopped listening outside

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Speaker 3: of well I need to sometimes. I obviously with life

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Speaker 3: from Darrels House, I listened to I listened to an

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Speaker 3: artist that's going to be on the show, and I

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Speaker 3: listened to their work and I try to get it

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Speaker 3: inside their head and figure out how they work. And

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Speaker 3: in that case, I am an audience. But I'm quite

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Speaker 3: sure when that all started happening, because.

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Speaker 1: Like when you were a young kid used to hang

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Speaker 1: out at like what wdas and just.

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Speaker 3: It was a freak for music. I was the ultimate audience.

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Speaker 3: I listened to everything I was. I used to just

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Speaker 3: hang out at w BAS and in the upteen theater

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Speaker 3: places like that. I mean I just lived there, literally

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Speaker 3: lived there.

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Speaker 1: What was it like getting signed to Elektra?

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Speaker 3: Early on, Well, Jack Holtzman was pretty cool. I have

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Speaker 3: to say I liked him. I was doing, you know,

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Speaker 3: working at Sigma Sound at Philly, and there was sort

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Speaker 3: of an offshoot of side Men and a producer named

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Speaker 3: Tommy Sellers that we after hours. He asked me if

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Speaker 3: I wanted to join it, and we used to, you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of come up with songs and do whatever. And

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Speaker 3: we got a body of work together. And then this

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Speaker 3: fellow that we all worked for named John Madera. He

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Speaker 3: wrote that the hop that's who he is. He wrote,

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Speaker 3: you don't own me, you know. He wrote those kind

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Speaker 3: of songs from a real old school Philly and he

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Speaker 3: started shopping this group of songs around and Electra bit

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Speaker 3: and they called it Gulliver And it wasn't a band

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Speaker 3: at all. It was just a bunch of we were

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Speaker 3: just writing songs. So I kind of went up there.

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Speaker 3: It was my first experience outside of Philly working with

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Speaker 3: or being involved in sort of a New York a

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Speaker 3: a big label. You know. The doors were run Electra

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Speaker 3: and everything, and it was an experience and interesting, but

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Speaker 3: I wasn't really it wasn't real. It wasn't honest. I

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Speaker 3: wasn't trying to shop my work or a band that

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Speaker 3: I was working with or anything like that. So it

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Speaker 3: was kind of kind of a phony situation really.

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Speaker 1: But you did you get to meet Jack Oldsman who

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Speaker 1: ran Electra.

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Speaker 3: He was in those days. Man, those kind of guys

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Speaker 3: were very hands on. Amah was the same. Absolutely. I

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Speaker 3: was in used to hang out, not a lot, but

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Speaker 3: I used to be in Jack Holtsman office and he

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Speaker 3: was really a nice guy. I have to say.

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Speaker 1: But you didn't write any tunes for that for that record?

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Speaker 1: Correct Or Am I wrong?

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Speaker 3: I actually did every Day is a Lovely Day. I

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Speaker 3: think it was called something like that, But I didn't.

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Speaker 3: My heart wasn't in it. I was just doing it,

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Speaker 3: you know, it was It wasn't really. I was doing

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Speaker 3: a lot of things to try and basically get in

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Speaker 3: the quote business and do things for money. You know.

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Speaker 3: I was doing commercials, I was I was doing sidebend stuff.

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Speaker 3: I was working with the game on Hugh team, playing

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Speaker 3: on records with those guys. I was doing anything I

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Speaker 3: could do really to make a few bucks. And that

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Speaker 3: electric thing was part of that whole scene, you know,

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Speaker 3: And I was sort of trying to find myself, to

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Speaker 3: tell you the truth.

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Speaker 1: By the time you get to whole Oats, does that

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Speaker 1: start to feel like this is actually what I want

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Speaker 1: to do and this isn't just a way to get in.

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Speaker 3: It was a way to get in, but it was

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Speaker 3: it was a little of both. I had met John

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Speaker 3: in school in Temple university and I needed a roommate.

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Speaker 3: We were both sort of suburban, not we weren't suburban,

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Speaker 3: that's the wrong word. But we lived out of town,

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Speaker 3: and so I started sharing apartments with him, and we

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Speaker 3: always did things separately. I think that's the whole mark

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Speaker 3: of anything I ever did with John Oates. He had

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Speaker 3: his own world. I have my own world, and proximity

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Speaker 3: pulled us together more than anything, even in those days.

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Speaker 3: So we decided, I remember the words, I said, let's

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Speaker 3: you know what, We'll share the stage. You do your thing,

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Speaker 3: I do my thing. And that was how the whole

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Speaker 3: Oats thing happened, because on the mailbox it's their haul

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Speaker 3: and Oates and we turned it into whole Loats, you know,

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Speaker 3: really really creative. And we used to play around Philly

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Speaker 3: in these little places. There was a place called World

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Speaker 3: Control Headquarters that held about eighty people, and we became

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Speaker 3: fixtures there and we got and we started getting a following,

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Speaker 3: and then we'd play other places that were similar and

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Speaker 3: we started doing that, and that was how the whole

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Speaker 3: relationship with Oates got started, by doing that and people

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Speaker 3: enjoying it what we were doing. And then we started

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Speaker 3: looking around from record deal after that.

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Speaker 1: Did you recognize at the time what work in with

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Speaker 1: like in a Reef?

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Speaker 3: Martin meant absolutely because I was used to working with

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Speaker 3: Tommy Bell and One Huff, so I knew what good

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Speaker 3: shit was. I knew immediately that a Reef was something special.

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Speaker 3: I mean I was I was familiar with his work

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Speaker 3: first of all. I mean, you know, he'd go from

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Speaker 3: Carly Simon to Aretha, to me to to you know,

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Speaker 3: even name it, to all these folks bands, all kinds

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Speaker 3: of things. He taught me fluency in a lot of

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Speaker 3: musical languages. I think I really learned that for the

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Speaker 3: first time from him. Before that, I was more like

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Speaker 3: just straight out of Philadelphia, you know, or at least

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Speaker 3: by version of it.

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Speaker 1: What was his impression of your songs?

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Speaker 3: He said that that I reminded him of an English

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Speaker 3: composer that I can never remember the name. There was

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Speaker 3: an obscureor English composer, and it was something about what

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Speaker 3: that was his frame of reference. But he saw something

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Speaker 3: in me that I think other people hadn't seen yet.

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Speaker 1: Did that encourage you at the time? Scare you?

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Speaker 3: It didn't scare me, but it encouraged me because he

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Speaker 3: again he was He was an encourager, so he tried

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Speaker 3: to bring it out. He tried to he tried to

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Speaker 3: give me confidence. He egged me on, and he was

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Speaker 3: a cheerleader, you know he was. He had a great

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Speaker 3: sense of you, Burt too, But he kind of made

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Speaker 3: me feel legitimate in what I was, in what I

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Speaker 3: was thinking about and doing, and to be unafraid to

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Speaker 3: do things.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember an album like Abandoned Lunchonette, which is

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Speaker 1: the second Holland Oats record, was he worked with you

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Speaker 1: guys on Also the songs themselves sound leaps and bounds

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Speaker 1: more evolved past Whole Oats, but then also just the

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Speaker 1: way that they were put together or the way that

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Speaker 1: they were arranged or orchestrated, And how much of that

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Speaker 1: was just you guys progressing as artists and you progressing

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Speaker 1: as an artist, Darryl, And how much of that was

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Speaker 1: working with a reef and seeing the potential and the

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Speaker 1: songs that you were writing.

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Speaker 3: The Whole Oats album was this grab bag of songs

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Speaker 3: that John Oates and I had written over the years,

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Speaker 3: like we were still in high school and college, you know,

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Speaker 3: we decided we're going to put him down one record.

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Speaker 3: To me, the whole Oats record was. It was a

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Speaker 3: Hall of Oats demo. It wasn't really a record. It

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Speaker 3: was in record form. It was sold as a record,

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Speaker 3: but it wasn't a record. It wasn't a thought a band. Eluchenet,

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Speaker 3: in my opinion, was our first record and at the times,

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Speaker 3: dictated that kind of production. You know. I think the

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Speaker 3: involvement of a guy named Chris Bond, Christopher Bond was

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Speaker 3: it can't be discounted with it because he well he

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Speaker 3: was a budding producer himself, and he was unlike me

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Speaker 3: or reef he was. He was totally a beatlemaniac, you know,

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Speaker 3: and and I think he was influenced by that kind

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Speaker 3: of late late period beatle music. And you can always

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Speaker 3: hear it in the songs where there'll be whatever I'm

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Speaker 3: doing or eas is doing, and then suddenly this kind

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Speaker 3: of beatless thing will be attached to it, you know,

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Speaker 3: which bugs me to type the truth. But then I

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Speaker 3: think if I don't know if it enhanced the album,

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Speaker 3: but I am very proud of that album, and it

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Speaker 3: was I think I think the body of work was

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Speaker 3: really interesting. I think I consider it to be the

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Speaker 3: first Hall of Notes record and maybe one of the

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Speaker 3: only real Hall of Notes records. What makes you say

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Speaker 3: that because we didn't really work together that much after

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Speaker 3: that we did that record, and then I and then

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Speaker 3: I we did that record with.

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Speaker 4: War Babies album Todd Rundgren that was basically being Todd,

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Speaker 4: you know, and then after that it really got very separate,

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Speaker 4: where John wrote some songs and he'd.

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Speaker 3: Sing them, you'd hear them one there, and his voice

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Speaker 3: would be the lead singer, and then I wrote whatever

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Speaker 3: I wrote, and that was that was the majority of it,

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Speaker 3: and that that that that idea that continued all the

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Speaker 3: way through our career.

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Speaker 1: Really, so seventy two seventy three abandoned lunch and that

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Speaker 1: you guys are working actually together. What wasn't about that

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Speaker 1: time that allowed that to unfold that way?

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of it had to do with

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Speaker 3: we were new. It was us against the world because

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Speaker 3: we were still really kids, just out of college, and

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Speaker 3: we were sharing apartments, and we moved and we moved

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Speaker 3: from Philly to New York and we shared an apartment.

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Speaker 3: We were in the same house, so it was kind

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Speaker 3: of hard to not collaborate because you know, I'd be

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Speaker 3: doing something I'd heat hear it, or he'd be doing

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Speaker 3: like She's Gone, for example, which is a real hall

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Speaker 3: hall had Oats song fifty to fifty all the way.

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Speaker 3: He was playing that kind of chorus riff, like a

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Speaker 3: folky riff, and I said, well, that's cool, that's kind

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Speaker 3: of interesting, and I sat down on the piano and

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Speaker 3: I went, you know, you know, you know, I did that,

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Speaker 3: and that turned into She's Gone, and then we we

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Speaker 3: wrote the lyrics together, so that was a real haul

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Speaker 3: and Oats song.

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Speaker 1: Were you guys proud of that song when you at

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Speaker 1: the time, I mean, that is still to this day

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Speaker 1: it's just a jaw dropper.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing it was good, but I okay. And then

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Speaker 3: we took that to a reef and talk about jaw drop.

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Speaker 3: He is what jaw dropped and I was just playing

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Speaker 3: it on a Fender Rhoads and he's the one that

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Speaker 3: came up with that. And you know all about the

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Speaker 3: progression at the end of the song, which is really

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Speaker 3: off the wall really and that but that was his

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Speaker 3: idea completely.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting because that progression sounds almost like I almost

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Speaker 1: feels like a signature at least of yours, Like I

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Speaker 1: feel like I, uh that change, that step up. I'm

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Speaker 1: just shocked to that came from from him.

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Speaker 3: Well, I learned it from him and decided it was

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Speaker 3: a good idea.

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Speaker 1: Because that's one of those moments you're listening to that

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, there's the hollow notes that I think

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Speaker 1: the majority of people think of when they think hallo notes.

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Speaker 1: You know, just a casual listener.

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Speaker 3: I have a mixed feelings about modulation, but I like it.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes it's really effective, lifing the Shees Gone kind of song.

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Speaker 3: More more recently, I don't use so much modulation anymore.

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Speaker 1: Why is that what causes the mixt No.

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Speaker 3: I just changed my taste changed.

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Speaker 1: It's not an intellectual thing now, you know what it is?

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Speaker 3: Too many, too many shitty songs modulated. A modulation is

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Speaker 3: a trick to take something mediocre and make it sound

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Speaker 3: like it's better than it is in a lot of cases.

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Speaker 1: Was there ever the thought after abandon Lnchinette to do

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Speaker 1: something more on your own?

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Speaker 3: That's what I decided that I wanted. It's a strange

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00:16:46,476 --> 00:16:49,916
Speaker 3: thing I started for getting that sort of Okay, I

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Speaker 3: want to go out there and do this on myself.

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Speaker 3: At that period of time, but I was in an

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Speaker 3: environment with people who did not want to hear about it,

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Speaker 3: and they did everything they could over all those years

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Speaker 3: to stop me and stop my impulses to do that,

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Speaker 3: and try and keep me. He'd be aligned if you

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Speaker 3: want the truth to be, and keep me, keep me doing.

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Speaker 3: What they were making money.

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Speaker 1: From was that label pressure.

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Speaker 3: It was label management everything.

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Speaker 1: When did your relationship with Tommy Mottola start?

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Speaker 3: It started back around that whole Oats period. Really, he

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Speaker 3: was working in Chapel Music. He had an office the

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Speaker 3: size of the closet and we went up there with

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Speaker 3: John Madeira and we were doing something I don't even

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Speaker 3: know why. I guess John and was trying to lease

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Speaker 3: his liase, his publishing or something. And I got started

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Speaker 3: talking to Tommy, and Tommy wanted to be a manager,

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Speaker 3: you know, he had big ambitions, and I guess he

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Speaker 3: heard me play something or whatever, and he said, why

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Speaker 3: don't you do You know you don't want to stay

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Speaker 3: in Philadelphia, watch let me manage it. And I went, well,

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Speaker 3: that's interesting, okay, sure, And he kept me laughing for

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Speaker 3: about fifteen years, and then I woke up.

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Speaker 1: When you write a song like Gino on the White album,

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Speaker 1: that's about Tommy Mattola right.

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Speaker 3: I was speaking truth right there.

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Speaker 1: Did he find that funny at the time or he.

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Speaker 3: Acted like he was he thought it was funny. I

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Speaker 3: assume he was smart enough to realize what it was about.

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Speaker 1: How'd you come up with the course on that? That's

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Speaker 1: such a strange.

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Speaker 3: Used to say shit like that, hard works being something

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Speaker 3: you know and lift fast style laughing. That's all he

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Speaker 3: did was laugh all the time. No herd him asking

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Speaker 3: nothing for nothing, and that's straight out of his mouth.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more from Daryl Hall after

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Speaker 1: the break. I want to talk about Todd run Green

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Speaker 1: and David Foster, because you do war Babies with Todd

347
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Speaker 1: run Gren, you do a couple of records with David Foster.

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Speaker 1: To hear you say that a reef kind of opens

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Speaker 1: you up and allows you to sort of put all

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Speaker 1: these different styles and kinds of music together. Makes sense

351
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Speaker 1: to me because it's very hard to make sense of

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Speaker 1: your career in the sense of it's so broad. It's

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Speaker 1: I mean, you make a record with the reef, David Foster,

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Speaker 1: Todd Rundgrend, Robert Fripp. I mean, like it's just it's

355
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Speaker 1: it's insane, it's different, it's incredible.

356
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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I I, as you can imagine,

357
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Speaker 3: I'm an adventurous soul and I and I'm not afraid.

358
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Speaker 3: I like to try things. I like to expand myself.

359
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Speaker 3: I like to put myself in in sometimes uncomfortable situations,

360
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Speaker 3: but usually just in creatively, creatively exciting situations and see

361
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Speaker 3: what comes out of it. Todd was the first one

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Speaker 3: that I did like that. I mean, I have very

363
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Speaker 3: mixed feelings about the War Babies album. I mean, I

364
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Speaker 3: think there was a lot of great ideas on it.

365
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Speaker 3: To me, it sounds like squirrels on acid. I mean,

366
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Speaker 3: I you know, it's just sorry. You know, people talk

367
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Speaker 3: about that album like and I go, okay, well, ld

368
00:20:08,836 --> 00:20:13,476
Speaker 3: you like. But at least it was an attempt to

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Speaker 3: break out of something and be open to the world,

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Speaker 3: be open to the musical world. And I tried to

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Speaker 3: keep that attitude. And I certainly kept that attitude when

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Speaker 3: I worked with Robert And that was the point, except

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Speaker 3: that I was more controlled within that. And I think

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Speaker 3: what I did with Robert was I was very happy with.

375
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Speaker 3: And David Foster that was another one that it was

376
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Speaker 3: kind of suggested. David was twenty two years old when

377
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Speaker 3: I met him, and he had done some things with Chicago.

378
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Speaker 3: I think we were the first bands that he were

379
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Speaker 3: really produced. We butted heads, but at the same time,

380
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Speaker 3: I think there was a lot of respect going on

381
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Speaker 3: there and on both sides, and we did some interesting things.

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Speaker 1: When you're in a situation like that and you and

383
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Speaker 1: Oates maybe aren't as strong as a partnership as you

384
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Speaker 1: could be, and then and you're sort of button head

385
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Speaker 1: to the producer, all so that's got to feel kind

386
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Speaker 1: that's gotta be a bit isolating.

387
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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean again, it was I was dealing

388
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Speaker 3: with it like it was my show, and it was

389
00:21:20,196 --> 00:21:24,436
Speaker 3: the principal characters was being the producers, and I knew

390
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Speaker 3: what I wanted. I knew what I wanted to do.

391
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Speaker 3: And a guy like David, he's a he's a He

392
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Speaker 3: comes from the autocratic school where he's a great musician

393
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Speaker 3: and he wants people to do it his way, and

394
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Speaker 3: I don't necessarily agree with that.

395
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Speaker 1: All the time you mentioned you were really happy with

396
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Speaker 1: the Robert Fripp record, it blew my mind. I looked

397
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Speaker 1: back at the dates, and you guys recorded that the

398
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Speaker 1: month after he wraps Heroes with David Bowie and then

399
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Speaker 1: he's in the studio with you the next month and

400
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Speaker 1: you guys are making what's your first solo record?

401
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Speaker 3: I met Robert and Uh. I was actually playing a

402
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Speaker 3: gig in Toronto, and Robert happened to be there and

403
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Speaker 3: he came backstage and and we instantly clicked. And he

404
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Speaker 3: was right at the time going into he was very

405
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Speaker 3: involved with in the gurdgif philosophy thing, you know, and

406
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Speaker 3: and he was going away to retreat and he said,

407
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Speaker 3: I'm going to know, this is Robert's way. I'm going

408
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Speaker 3: to away to retreat for about six months, and then

409
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Speaker 3: when we come back, why don't you and I get

410
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Speaker 3: together and make some music together. And I said, sure, okay,

411
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Speaker 3: this sounds good. And he decided he was going to

412
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Speaker 3: move to New York City after the Gurdgiff thing and

413
00:22:42,876 --> 00:22:47,316
Speaker 3: sort of immerse himself in New York. And that's what

414
00:22:47,476 --> 00:22:51,716
Speaker 3: Heroes happened and all that, and he and I started

415
00:22:51,756 --> 00:22:56,716
Speaker 3: paling around together really and we recorded the Sacred Songs album.

416
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Speaker 3: I had a few songs and some of the songs

417
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Speaker 3: we recorded on the spot and just made up with

418
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Speaker 3: the spot and we did it in Town in New York.

419
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Speaker 3: And then he said, okay, well I want to make

420
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Speaker 3: a record. Let's do the same thing for my record.

421
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Speaker 3: So we made a record that became Exposure to Robert

422
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Speaker 3: record called Exposure, and that was my first setback because

423
00:23:18,716 --> 00:23:23,956
Speaker 3: we recorded and wrote the songs together, and my label

424
00:23:24,836 --> 00:23:28,356
Speaker 3: said that they wouldn't allow me to use my vocals

425
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Speaker 3: on the record. I finally got them to let me

426
00:23:31,596 --> 00:23:36,196
Speaker 3: use I think two or three, and he had the

427
00:23:36,236 --> 00:23:41,836
Speaker 3: task of trying to find someone or people and who

428
00:23:41,876 --> 00:23:45,436
Speaker 3: could copy or have some kind of reasonable try to

429
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Speaker 3: copy the vocals that I had come up with on

430
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Speaker 3: the record, which luckily he found some people who were

431
00:23:51,876 --> 00:23:55,276
Speaker 3: pretty good to do it. But Maya, was it frustrating.

432
00:23:55,996 --> 00:23:58,996
Speaker 3: I realized that I was really in trouble, that I

433
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Speaker 3: was really being locked into something that I didn't see

434
00:24:02,836 --> 00:24:03,876
Speaker 3: having an happy ending.

435
00:24:04,476 --> 00:24:07,316
Speaker 1: It's wild that you say that, because it from the outside,

436
00:24:07,356 --> 00:24:09,836
Speaker 1: it doesn't fucking.

437
00:24:10,476 --> 00:24:13,636
Speaker 3: Keep on trucking. I had no choice. And here's the thing.

438
00:24:14,676 --> 00:24:17,716
Speaker 3: Not only did I keep on trucking because Robert was saying, Okay,

439
00:24:17,756 --> 00:24:20,316
Speaker 3: let's put a band together and start doing this for real.

440
00:24:20,796 --> 00:24:23,676
Speaker 3: And then suddenly I had a commitment to our SIA,

441
00:24:23,756 --> 00:24:27,636
Speaker 3: to Gwin and that's when Voices album happened, and the

442
00:24:27,636 --> 00:24:30,196
Speaker 3: whole fucking world blew up for for Hall of Oates,

443
00:24:30,756 --> 00:24:33,476
Speaker 3: and then I was really stuck in the in the

444
00:24:33,516 --> 00:24:35,836
Speaker 3: groove with the with the situation I was in.

445
00:24:36,516 --> 00:24:38,396
Speaker 1: Did you hear any of that stuff he had been

446
00:24:38,436 --> 00:24:40,356
Speaker 1: doing with Bowie that Frip had been doing with Bowie

447
00:24:40,516 --> 00:24:41,236
Speaker 1: around that time?

448
00:24:42,156 --> 00:24:45,796
Speaker 3: Yeah? Sure, I was pretty familiar with with that whole scene.

449
00:24:46,156 --> 00:24:50,156
Speaker 3: You know, I knew Brian Eno and and uh and Robert,

450
00:24:50,476 --> 00:24:53,756
Speaker 3: and I got to know Peter Gabriel and I worked

451
00:24:53,756 --> 00:24:56,156
Speaker 3: with lou Reid and we actually hauled us. Believe it

452
00:24:56,276 --> 00:24:58,556
Speaker 3: or not, we opened for a tour, a lou Reed

453
00:24:58,556 --> 00:25:02,796
Speaker 3: tour you did, so it's hard to believe what we did. Yeah,

454
00:25:03,436 --> 00:25:06,396
Speaker 3: and uh, and I knew David and uh, so, I

455
00:25:06,396 --> 00:25:08,556
Speaker 3: mean yeah, I'm was familiar with all this stuff that

456
00:25:08,636 --> 00:25:09,356
Speaker 3: was going on, right.

457
00:25:09,316 --> 00:25:12,916
Speaker 1: Because you guys opened for David Bowie too around seventy

458
00:25:12,956 --> 00:25:15,076
Speaker 1: two ish, really early.

459
00:25:15,236 --> 00:25:15,636
Speaker 3: Yeah.

460
00:25:15,916 --> 00:25:17,116
Speaker 1: How was lou Reid on the tour?

461
00:25:20,876 --> 00:25:23,636
Speaker 3: He was It was the Sally Can't Dance No More tour,

462
00:25:24,276 --> 00:25:29,396
Speaker 3: so I can't dance no more? Uh? And uh, he

463
00:25:29,516 --> 00:25:33,676
Speaker 3: was strange, man. I mean it's to say that it's

464
00:25:33,916 --> 00:25:35,916
Speaker 3: just to be obvious. I mean, Lou was lou Is

465
00:25:35,916 --> 00:25:40,396
Speaker 3: a very unusual man, and I kind of liked him.

466
00:25:40,636 --> 00:25:43,676
Speaker 3: I liked I liked his attitude. I liked he was

467
00:25:43,756 --> 00:25:46,916
Speaker 3: he just didn't give a fuck. You know, he was

468
00:25:46,916 --> 00:25:51,116
Speaker 3: a curmudgeon. But yet he wasn't you know? There was

469
00:25:51,156 --> 00:25:52,796
Speaker 3: a lot going on with Lou Reid that I think

470
00:25:52,956 --> 00:25:57,516
Speaker 3: more than people even realize. And I wound up living

471
00:25:57,756 --> 00:25:59,876
Speaker 3: in New York City. I live next door to him,

472
00:25:59,956 --> 00:26:02,676
Speaker 3: So I mean, not only was I did go on

473
00:26:02,716 --> 00:26:04,036
Speaker 3: tour with him, but I used to see him walk

474
00:26:04,156 --> 00:26:07,996
Speaker 3: his dog and things like that. And I wouldn't say

475
00:26:08,036 --> 00:26:11,036
Speaker 3: he was a friendly man, but you know.

476
00:26:11,596 --> 00:26:14,156
Speaker 1: Would would you talk though? Would you you know, keep

477
00:26:14,156 --> 00:26:15,076
Speaker 1: a cordial.

478
00:26:15,356 --> 00:26:17,516
Speaker 3: As I'd say something to me, go away? How you doing?

479
00:26:19,836 --> 00:26:21,036
Speaker 1: What do you make of a songwriting?

480
00:26:21,676 --> 00:26:23,556
Speaker 3: I was. I was just with Dave Stewart, and Dave

481
00:26:23,596 --> 00:26:26,716
Speaker 3: Stewart has a book of Lou Reed's lyrics, and I

482
00:26:26,756 --> 00:26:30,236
Speaker 3: was in between doing stuff that we were doing. This

483
00:26:30,356 --> 00:26:33,516
Speaker 3: just happened last week, uh, And I started reading his

484
00:26:33,636 --> 00:26:37,796
Speaker 3: lyrics and the early stuff, the development stuff. I mean,

485
00:26:37,836 --> 00:26:41,916
Speaker 3: it's good, it's it's just it's it's completely different than

486
00:26:41,916 --> 00:26:45,396
Speaker 3: anybody else. I mean, you take a song like I

487
00:26:45,396 --> 00:26:48,876
Speaker 3: don't Know Sister Ray or something like that. I mean,

488
00:26:48,956 --> 00:26:51,756
Speaker 3: the words are just amazing. It's slight, it's a slice

489
00:26:51,756 --> 00:26:54,236
Speaker 3: of light, but ugly life and a fucked up life.

490
00:26:54,556 --> 00:26:57,876
Speaker 3: But but it's you know, he he managed to create

491
00:26:57,916 --> 00:27:00,956
Speaker 3: a mood that was based on something that really was

492
00:27:01,556 --> 00:27:03,036
Speaker 3: and uh, I respect him.

493
00:27:03,636 --> 00:27:06,636
Speaker 1: I thought about him a bit when I was listening

494
00:27:06,676 --> 00:27:09,356
Speaker 1: back through your records because with Lou it always felt

495
00:27:09,356 --> 00:27:12,116
Speaker 1: like there was he knew how to write a pop

496
00:27:12,156 --> 00:27:15,916
Speaker 1: song and just subverted the lout of it, you know,

497
00:27:17,076 --> 00:27:19,436
Speaker 1: and it felt like you could do either thing, Like

498
00:27:19,476 --> 00:27:22,036
Speaker 1: it felt like you could write the perfect pop song,

499
00:27:22,236 --> 00:27:27,836
Speaker 1: you could write the most subversive weird thing. With Robert Free,

500
00:27:27,876 --> 00:27:29,996
Speaker 1: I mean it's like and everything in between, you know.

501
00:27:31,156 --> 00:27:34,676
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's that describes by the way my

502
00:27:34,756 --> 00:27:37,756
Speaker 3: brain works. I can I can do go both ways,

503
00:27:37,836 --> 00:27:40,156
Speaker 3: you know, or a lot of ways. I always say,

504
00:27:40,156 --> 00:27:41,716
Speaker 3: I speak a lot of musical languages.

505
00:27:42,356 --> 00:27:46,076
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you remember Do you remember any of water Wheel?

506
00:27:48,836 --> 00:27:50,676
Speaker 3: I remember, but I would never be able to sing

507
00:27:50,756 --> 00:27:53,756
Speaker 3: it because my voice saying near that high anymore? Man,

508
00:27:54,316 --> 00:28:00,356
Speaker 3: I hear you call me. I wrote that I was

509
00:28:00,436 --> 00:28:02,756
Speaker 3: just out of high school when I wrote that, you know,

510
00:28:02,836 --> 00:28:07,316
Speaker 3: the Philly scene it was. It was a really strange thing.

511
00:28:07,316 --> 00:28:10,116
Speaker 3: There was a big folk scene going on too, and

512
00:28:11,236 --> 00:28:13,316
Speaker 3: I heard I heard something that made me want to

513
00:28:13,316 --> 00:28:16,716
Speaker 3: write that. I don't remember what it was, and it

514
00:28:17,436 --> 00:28:21,876
Speaker 3: was it was basically written in that tradition, and it

515
00:28:21,916 --> 00:28:24,316
Speaker 3: was certainly different than anything I was doing. When I say,

516
00:28:24,396 --> 00:28:25,116
Speaker 3: working with game.

517
00:28:25,036 --> 00:28:28,796
Speaker 1: On, it's interesting how nostalgic you can be just out

518
00:28:28,836 --> 00:28:29,676
Speaker 1: of high school.

519
00:28:30,556 --> 00:28:33,836
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I think all these songs I wrote,

520
00:28:33,996 --> 00:28:38,116
Speaker 3: I seem to be obsessed with writing songs about nostalgia

521
00:28:38,236 --> 00:28:41,356
Speaker 3: and being older and all that when I was just

522
00:28:41,396 --> 00:28:43,996
Speaker 3: a kid. I don't know why I thought that way,

523
00:28:44,636 --> 00:28:45,276
Speaker 3: don't ask me.

524
00:28:45,636 --> 00:28:48,796
Speaker 1: Yeah, but to be able to write a song like

525
00:28:48,916 --> 00:28:52,156
Speaker 1: water Wheel wasn't a hit but sounds in so many

526
00:28:52,156 --> 00:28:56,676
Speaker 1: ways like a perfect pop song from that era of

527
00:28:56,716 --> 00:29:00,716
Speaker 1: when songs sounded like that. Then to be able to

528
00:29:00,756 --> 00:29:02,556
Speaker 1: go and do something like you know, I mean just

529
00:29:03,436 --> 00:29:07,196
Speaker 1: United States, you know, on voices, and then to do

530
00:29:07,956 --> 00:29:09,436
Speaker 1: I mean one of my favorites like I'm in a

531
00:29:09,436 --> 00:29:11,556
Speaker 1: Philly mood, you know, in like ninety three ninety four.

532
00:29:11,596 --> 00:29:15,676
Speaker 1: I mean that you have that kind of a range

533
00:29:15,676 --> 00:29:19,956
Speaker 1: and can write in all of these various styles, these

534
00:29:19,996 --> 00:29:24,036
Speaker 1: things that are just like deep and incredible is something else?

535
00:29:25,116 --> 00:29:27,356
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean I won't ask me why I

536
00:29:27,396 --> 00:29:29,476
Speaker 3: can do that, but I seem to have the ability

537
00:29:29,516 --> 00:29:32,356
Speaker 3: to do it. My ears are open and I have

538
00:29:33,556 --> 00:29:36,876
Speaker 3: that facility. I guess I would never be able to

539
00:29:36,916 --> 00:29:37,476
Speaker 3: explain that.

540
00:29:37,796 --> 00:29:39,556
Speaker 1: And by the way, you just want to say you

541
00:29:39,556 --> 00:29:44,636
Speaker 1: put your voice down. But I watched the Frip live

542
00:29:44,676 --> 00:29:48,516
Speaker 1: at Daryll's house, you and Robert Fripp and your version

543
00:29:48,596 --> 00:29:51,436
Speaker 1: of NYC and why that you did probably what just

544
00:29:51,436 --> 00:29:55,756
Speaker 1: two years ago sounds better than the record still do that.

545
00:29:58,956 --> 00:30:01,076
Speaker 1: We should talk about Dave Stewart because you did a

546
00:30:01,116 --> 00:30:03,516
Speaker 1: record with him in the eighties. I think your third

547
00:30:04,436 --> 00:30:07,236
Speaker 1: or second solo record. You guys just did a record

548
00:30:07,596 --> 00:30:11,196
Speaker 1: together last year. D How did you guys come together?

549
00:30:12,436 --> 00:30:16,596
Speaker 3: Like many things, I met him, I just met him.

550
00:30:16,836 --> 00:30:19,716
Speaker 3: Somebody introduced me to him and they said, actually, somebody

551
00:30:19,756 --> 00:30:21,956
Speaker 3: said you guys should get together. I think you enjoy

552
00:30:21,996 --> 00:30:27,116
Speaker 3: each other's company. And he was I've lived in London

553
00:30:27,156 --> 00:30:29,116
Speaker 3: for a lot of time. I don't live there right now,

554
00:30:29,156 --> 00:30:31,276
Speaker 3: but I for years and years I lived in London.

555
00:30:31,396 --> 00:30:32,916
Speaker 3: So I went up to his house at the time

556
00:30:32,996 --> 00:30:36,236
Speaker 3: he was living in made of Bale and I went

557
00:30:36,236 --> 00:30:39,636
Speaker 3: in and we immediately started. I mean I literally went

558
00:30:39,676 --> 00:30:42,956
Speaker 3: into his house. He says, come downstairs, and we started

559
00:30:42,956 --> 00:30:45,836
Speaker 3: writing a song. That was the way I met Dave Stewart.

560
00:30:46,236 --> 00:30:48,916
Speaker 3: We've been friends ever since. You know, we just get along.

561
00:30:49,076 --> 00:30:51,476
Speaker 3: I don't know what it is. And he makes me

562
00:30:51,596 --> 00:30:56,156
Speaker 3: feel creatively, he's a very stimulating person. He makes me

563
00:30:56,596 --> 00:31:01,636
Speaker 3: feel alive. He's a gigantic bundle of energy, and he's

564
00:31:01,916 --> 00:31:07,236
Speaker 3: extremely smart and extremely full of ideas, like I can't

565
00:31:07,276 --> 00:31:10,996
Speaker 3: even tell you haven't. He never stops with him and.

566
00:31:12,596 --> 00:31:12,956
Speaker 1: I don't know.

567
00:31:12,996 --> 00:31:15,556
Speaker 3: He's just fun to be with. And so over the

568
00:31:15,636 --> 00:31:17,916
Speaker 3: years we've we made that record, we made the Three

569
00:31:17,916 --> 00:31:22,396
Speaker 3: Hearts album, and we have a great time doing it.

570
00:31:22,996 --> 00:31:25,436
Speaker 3: And then over the years we've we've written a few

571
00:31:25,476 --> 00:31:27,756
Speaker 3: things and done things together, and he's played on some

572
00:31:27,796 --> 00:31:32,556
Speaker 3: of the records and done things with him. And more recently,

573
00:31:33,076 --> 00:31:35,476
Speaker 3: I told him about the place I live in the

574
00:31:35,476 --> 00:31:38,516
Speaker 3: Bahamas and he wound up buying a house down there,

575
00:31:39,116 --> 00:31:41,956
Speaker 3: so we're neighbors now. On top of it all, you know,

576
00:31:42,036 --> 00:31:44,516
Speaker 3: it's family. It's really become family with them.

577
00:31:44,836 --> 00:31:47,596
Speaker 1: You might have figured out the life if you're moving

578
00:31:47,636 --> 00:31:49,796
Speaker 1: between New York, London and the bass.

579
00:31:51,236 --> 00:31:52,236
Speaker 3: That's a good triangle.

580
00:31:54,556 --> 00:31:57,436
Speaker 1: This might be the perfect triangle. His stuff with the

581
00:31:57,716 --> 00:32:00,356
Speaker 1: rhythmics is I mean his stuff in general, but I

582
00:32:00,356 --> 00:32:02,836
Speaker 1: mean that rhythmic stuff. To this day, I've been revisiting

583
00:32:02,876 --> 00:32:05,876
Speaker 1: it because I've been playing it for my kids, and

584
00:32:06,876 --> 00:32:08,436
Speaker 1: that stuff's mind blowing. Still.

585
00:32:09,276 --> 00:32:12,636
Speaker 3: He wrote those songs you don't and that's his productions.

586
00:32:13,076 --> 00:32:15,836
Speaker 3: And he's a great singer, by the way, which doesn't hurt,

587
00:32:15,876 --> 00:32:18,116
Speaker 3: you know. And she sang the ship out of that stuff.

588
00:32:18,796 --> 00:32:22,036
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean he he has a great body

589
00:32:22,036 --> 00:32:22,356
Speaker 3: of work.

590
00:32:22,876 --> 00:32:24,636
Speaker 1: The sounds you guys got on the new record, like

591
00:32:24,676 --> 00:32:28,516
Speaker 1: the I mean the whole World's Better. Yeah, beautiful sound.

592
00:32:28,796 --> 00:32:33,676
Speaker 3: Yeah, that song I love. I love playing that recently

593
00:32:33,716 --> 00:32:36,316
Speaker 3: in my latest tours, I'm starting the show with that

594
00:32:36,396 --> 00:32:39,516
Speaker 3: because there's just something about it. And you know, when

595
00:32:38,876 --> 00:32:50,436
Speaker 3: you just bang that thing out, you know that you

596
00:32:50,476 --> 00:32:55,636
Speaker 3: know it just wow, it just makes you stand up.

597
00:32:56,076 --> 00:32:59,556
Speaker 3: That song. I wrote that song about one subject, and

598
00:32:59,596 --> 00:33:02,316
Speaker 3: I had most of that song and then it turned

599
00:33:02,316 --> 00:33:06,836
Speaker 3: into something else and it became anthemic. And that was

600
00:33:06,916 --> 00:33:12,956
Speaker 3: Dave's idea to put the you know you know in

601
00:33:13,036 --> 00:33:15,676
Speaker 3: the end, and we just had people come in, friends

602
00:33:15,716 --> 00:33:17,836
Speaker 3: from the from the island, they come in and sang.

603
00:33:18,556 --> 00:33:22,076
Speaker 3: So it became a real communal, athemic kind of song.

604
00:33:22,556 --> 00:33:24,476
Speaker 1: What was what was the song originally about?

605
00:33:24,876 --> 00:33:27,436
Speaker 3: It was about, like many of my songs, I had

606
00:33:27,676 --> 00:33:31,596
Speaker 3: a very tempestuous relationship with with the my late wife

607
00:33:31,996 --> 00:33:34,956
Speaker 3: and I don't know she was so moody with what

608
00:33:34,996 --> 00:33:37,516
Speaker 3: I would hear her saying in the kitchen everything got better.

609
00:33:40,436 --> 00:33:41,316
Speaker 3: That's where it started.

610
00:33:42,276 --> 00:33:44,236
Speaker 1: Is there an early version of that that you can

611
00:33:44,716 --> 00:33:45,556
Speaker 1: share a bit of.

612
00:33:46,436 --> 00:33:49,756
Speaker 3: No, not really, because I had the chorus and that's

613
00:33:49,796 --> 00:33:52,716
Speaker 3: when that was. That was the original. And then I

614
00:33:52,756 --> 00:33:55,756
Speaker 3: had I had the chords of the song, but I

615
00:33:55,796 --> 00:33:59,436
Speaker 3: didn't have the words. And that's when it turned into

616
00:33:59,476 --> 00:34:01,956
Speaker 3: something else, you know, when when I was with Dave

617
00:34:02,476 --> 00:34:06,156
Speaker 3: and I had a melody without any words to go

618
00:34:06,236 --> 00:34:09,396
Speaker 3: with it, and and then we you know, I, with

619
00:34:09,476 --> 00:34:11,916
Speaker 3: his major help, I wrote the lyrics.

620
00:34:12,196 --> 00:34:14,236
Speaker 1: Would would you mind giving us a little of the courses?

621
00:34:14,236 --> 00:34:16,436
Speaker 1: Because you gave us a bit and it's it's it's

622
00:34:16,556 --> 00:34:18,916
Speaker 1: too good to the choruses.

623
00:34:20,516 --> 00:34:30,916
Speaker 2: Or when notts again? When youse snots again?

624
00:34:35,516 --> 00:34:35,956
Speaker 3: Here it is.

625
00:34:37,476 --> 00:34:40,156
Speaker 5: It's a moving song. It's a moving song, you know,

626
00:34:40,796 --> 00:34:43,836
Speaker 5: it comes from a real emotion. Everything all right, comes

627
00:34:43,876 --> 00:34:46,796
Speaker 5: from something real. And people ask me, what you know,

628
00:34:47,036 --> 00:34:49,196
Speaker 5: your new new musician in the world, what do you do?

629
00:34:49,436 --> 00:34:51,716
Speaker 5: I said, you got to believe it, you gotta you

630
00:34:51,796 --> 00:34:53,676
Speaker 5: gotta live it. You got It's got to be something

631
00:34:53,756 --> 00:34:57,436
Speaker 5: that that almost makes you makes you want to cry inside,

632
00:34:58,076 --> 00:34:59,516
Speaker 5: or does make you cry inside?

633
00:35:00,076 --> 00:35:02,556
Speaker 3: Uh? Just me playing that, I just got a feeling

634
00:35:02,556 --> 00:35:05,836
Speaker 3: in my throat because it brought back the memories of

635
00:35:06,236 --> 00:35:10,756
Speaker 3: when I wrote it. Uh, yeah like that?

636
00:35:11,436 --> 00:35:15,476
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know you mentioned your late wife. Sarah Allen

637
00:35:15,676 --> 00:35:22,676
Speaker 1: Jena Allen were incredible inspirations and collaborators crowded out along

638
00:35:22,756 --> 00:35:23,396
Speaker 1: your career.

639
00:35:24,436 --> 00:35:27,636
Speaker 3: Both Sarah and Jana. They played such a large part

640
00:35:27,716 --> 00:35:31,716
Speaker 3: in the song from the eighties. Jana originated private Eyes,

641
00:35:31,756 --> 00:35:34,876
Speaker 3: I mean, and she originated kiss on My List, I mean,

642
00:35:34,996 --> 00:35:39,196
Speaker 3: things like that. I mean, they were complete collaborations. And Sarah,

643
00:35:39,596 --> 00:35:44,636
Speaker 3: it was it is a really good lyricist, really good lyricist,

644
00:35:44,676 --> 00:35:45,716
Speaker 3: and she contributed a lot.

645
00:35:46,476 --> 00:35:50,636
Speaker 1: Did they figure how to channel that from being around you?

646
00:35:50,996 --> 00:35:53,916
Speaker 3: Or I think so? I don't know, if I just

647
00:35:54,036 --> 00:35:56,156
Speaker 3: gave it off. I mean, they were both musical people,

648
00:35:57,076 --> 00:35:59,716
Speaker 3: and especially Jana, I mean, Janna is a guitar player

649
00:36:00,556 --> 00:36:02,996
Speaker 3: and a singer and all that. Sandy is a singer,

650
00:36:03,036 --> 00:36:06,916
Speaker 3: but you know, more just a music lover. And yeah,

651
00:36:07,036 --> 00:36:09,876
Speaker 3: I think proximity had to do with it. And I

652
00:36:09,956 --> 00:36:12,276
Speaker 3: don't know, something rubbed off and they just came up

653
00:36:12,316 --> 00:36:15,236
Speaker 3: with really good ideas and they would throw them out

654
00:36:15,316 --> 00:36:20,076
Speaker 3: and just to compliment things really add to the quality

655
00:36:20,116 --> 00:36:21,596
Speaker 3: of whatever it is that I was coming up with.

656
00:36:21,956 --> 00:36:24,076
Speaker 1: How would Jana bring like a private eyes to you?

657
00:36:24,796 --> 00:36:27,756
Speaker 3: She actually made a demo of that. The chorus was there,

658
00:36:29,076 --> 00:36:32,236
Speaker 3: but then I kind of fleshed out the verses. I changed.

659
00:36:32,516 --> 00:36:35,636
Speaker 3: You know, that's a pretty complicated chord progression. All the

660
00:36:35,716 --> 00:36:37,996
Speaker 3: chords and so and that that had to do with

661
00:36:38,076 --> 00:36:41,196
Speaker 3: me and I was doing that, but she came up

662
00:36:41,236 --> 00:36:44,276
Speaker 3: with private eyes. Watch didn't you they see your every move?

663
00:36:44,356 --> 00:36:47,316
Speaker 1: She came up with that, sir, can you play through

664
00:36:47,356 --> 00:36:48,756
Speaker 1: a bit of those that chord progression? You were?

665
00:36:49,636 --> 00:36:52,516
Speaker 3: Okay, let's see here. I can't believe it. I have

666
00:36:52,596 --> 00:37:12,036
Speaker 3: to think about it, watching watching you, watch, watching you,

667
00:37:12,236 --> 00:37:12,836
Speaker 3: watch you.

668
00:37:14,956 --> 00:37:18,076
Speaker 1: Man. So she had those chords or.

669
00:37:18,876 --> 00:37:22,636
Speaker 3: She came up with the chords, Well, okay, uh watch

670
00:37:22,756 --> 00:37:26,116
Speaker 3: and watch that's me you can tell right, read that.

671
00:37:27,076 --> 00:37:28,556
Speaker 1: She but her was a ship.

672
00:37:33,436 --> 00:37:34,476
Speaker 3: She she came up with that.

673
00:37:34,756 --> 00:37:36,116
Speaker 1: Wow, what a gift.

674
00:37:37,676 --> 00:37:40,276
Speaker 3: Yeah, well she had one and talk about you know,

675
00:37:40,636 --> 00:37:43,036
Speaker 3: I don't know man's tragedy sometimes. I mean she died

676
00:37:43,156 --> 00:37:46,476
Speaker 3: really young. She died, she got the leukemia and died.

677
00:37:46,596 --> 00:37:50,476
Speaker 3: She was thirty nine years old. And I'm still misser.

678
00:37:52,036 --> 00:37:55,396
Speaker 1: Did that impact you and Sarah are working together? Oh?

679
00:37:55,596 --> 00:37:59,796
Speaker 3: Sarah was. But did it impact it? I can't say

680
00:37:59,836 --> 00:38:04,356
Speaker 3: it didn't. It kind of put disruption in our family. Yeah,

681
00:38:04,916 --> 00:38:09,516
Speaker 3: that kind of personal stuff. Would you put that into music?

682
00:38:10,596 --> 00:38:13,596
Speaker 3: I do all the time. I'm not afraid to put

683
00:38:13,636 --> 00:38:16,756
Speaker 3: it all out there. The most obvious one is the

684
00:38:16,836 --> 00:38:19,116
Speaker 3: one that d album and the new album one I'd

685
00:38:19,196 --> 00:38:21,556
Speaker 3: rather be a fool. I mean, soar the end of

686
00:38:21,636 --> 00:38:23,276
Speaker 3: that song. I'm just saying it.

687
00:38:24,236 --> 00:38:27,196
Speaker 1: When you put something like that down, does it ever

688
00:38:27,236 --> 00:38:27,836
Speaker 1: give you pause.

689
00:38:28,876 --> 00:38:32,716
Speaker 3: I'm not afraid. I put my emotions right out there.

690
00:38:33,316 --> 00:38:35,276
Speaker 3: Rather be a fool. It is a very direct version

691
00:38:35,356 --> 00:38:38,636
Speaker 3: of that. You can't look at my music without here

692
00:38:38,716 --> 00:38:42,356
Speaker 3: and the reality of it. It's just it's all in there.

693
00:38:42,916 --> 00:38:46,036
Speaker 1: Has it ever caused maybe not problems that has ever.

694
00:38:46,076 --> 00:38:49,396
Speaker 1: Has it ever caused friction with people that you're close to.

695
00:38:50,476 --> 00:38:53,796
Speaker 3: I think I've made some people sad. I'm saying that

696
00:38:53,876 --> 00:38:55,836
Speaker 3: with a smirk of my face, which is terrible, So

697
00:38:55,916 --> 00:38:59,196
Speaker 3: I don't feel smirky about it. But I don't know.

698
00:38:59,516 --> 00:39:05,476
Speaker 3: I mean, the truth hurts sometimes, and that doesn't mean

699
00:39:05,516 --> 00:39:06,596
Speaker 3: you can't speak the truth.

700
00:39:07,596 --> 00:39:11,196
Speaker 1: I had a conversation with Michael McDonald about a year ago,

701
00:39:11,476 --> 00:39:15,116
Speaker 1: maybe a year and a half ago, and he told

702
00:39:15,156 --> 00:39:19,356
Speaker 1: a story about I think it was I can't remember

703
00:39:19,516 --> 00:39:21,436
Speaker 1: which Doobe's record it was now, but one of the

704
00:39:21,516 --> 00:39:26,716
Speaker 1: records wasn't doing so well and one of the black

705
00:39:26,756 --> 00:39:28,836
Speaker 1: an hours at Warner said like, this should go on,

706
00:39:28,956 --> 00:39:31,516
Speaker 1: this should go on black radio, you know, living on

707
00:39:31,516 --> 00:39:34,436
Speaker 1: the fault line, that's what it was, and setting a

708
00:39:34,436 --> 00:39:37,636
Speaker 1: black radio. Black radio loved it and kind of saved

709
00:39:38,476 --> 00:39:41,476
Speaker 1: that version of the band. But it occurred to me, like,

710
00:39:41,596 --> 00:39:44,036
Speaker 1: you know, like the Doobiest, there was a number of

711
00:39:44,076 --> 00:39:47,316
Speaker 1: groups like that that they kind of got eventually pigeonholed

712
00:39:47,516 --> 00:39:50,676
Speaker 1: as yacht rock, but really what it was was just

713
00:39:51,436 --> 00:39:53,636
Speaker 1: there were just R and B guys. They're just making

714
00:39:53,756 --> 00:39:55,396
Speaker 1: R and B records, and they were white, and.

715
00:39:55,436 --> 00:39:58,956
Speaker 3: So this is something I don't understand. First of all,

716
00:39:59,036 --> 00:40:01,996
Speaker 3: yacht rock was a fucking joke by two jerk offs

717
00:40:02,236 --> 00:40:07,236
Speaker 3: in California, and suddenly it became a genre. And I

718
00:40:07,356 --> 00:40:11,276
Speaker 3: don't even understand it, never understood it. And I totally man,

719
00:40:11,356 --> 00:40:14,476
Speaker 3: I'm glad you say that it's just R and B.

720
00:40:14,956 --> 00:40:17,956
Speaker 3: It's just another with some maybe some jazz in there.

721
00:40:18,036 --> 00:40:21,916
Speaker 3: It's mellow R and B. It's it's it's it's it's

722
00:40:21,956 --> 00:40:24,956
Speaker 3: smooth R and B. Yeah, I don't see what the

723
00:40:25,076 --> 00:40:25,836
Speaker 3: yacht part is.

724
00:40:26,356 --> 00:40:28,596
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it seemed like, you know, it seemed like

725
00:40:28,676 --> 00:40:31,476
Speaker 1: like with the Doobies, for instance, like they like, because

726
00:40:31,516 --> 00:40:33,076
Speaker 1: they were white guys, they didn't know where to or

727
00:40:33,196 --> 00:40:35,356
Speaker 1: not all of them, but the majority of Michael McDonald's white,

728
00:40:35,396 --> 00:40:37,556
Speaker 1: and it's like they didn't know where to put it.

729
00:40:37,676 --> 00:40:39,116
Speaker 1: It's like, well, I can't go on black rad because

730
00:40:39,116 --> 00:40:42,036
Speaker 1: these guys aren't black, but you know, the white audience

731
00:40:42,076 --> 00:40:44,276
Speaker 1: they want to hear, you know, whatever they want. But

732
00:40:44,676 --> 00:40:48,476
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like you guys necessarily ever had that

733
00:40:48,716 --> 00:40:50,796
Speaker 1: issue from my vantage point. I don't know if you

734
00:40:50,876 --> 00:40:51,436
Speaker 1: feel that way.

735
00:40:52,196 --> 00:40:54,916
Speaker 3: I was more of a pioneer. I mean my music.

736
00:40:55,076 --> 00:40:57,036
Speaker 3: When I was I had a group called the Tumtones,

737
00:40:57,076 --> 00:40:59,676
Speaker 3: and and I had a you know, pretty like a

738
00:41:00,236 --> 00:41:04,276
Speaker 3: top twenty hit in Philadelphia, you know one W Das

739
00:41:04,876 --> 00:41:08,196
Speaker 3: and Sarah's Smile broke on on on R and B

740
00:41:08,356 --> 00:41:11,356
Speaker 3: on on Black Race. It it had to make its

741
00:41:11,396 --> 00:41:15,156
Speaker 3: way to pop radio. That's how Hollanolds started. That was

742
00:41:15,356 --> 00:41:19,556
Speaker 3: that's our origins. And uh, people misjudged us and and

743
00:41:19,796 --> 00:41:23,036
Speaker 3: and and uh because they couldn't label us, and they

744
00:41:23,356 --> 00:41:25,236
Speaker 3: always they came up with all this kind of crap

745
00:41:25,396 --> 00:41:28,876
Speaker 3: soft rock and yacht rock and all this other nonsense

746
00:41:29,316 --> 00:41:32,156
Speaker 3: and none of the none of it really describes anything

747
00:41:32,196 --> 00:41:35,516
Speaker 3: that I do, really, yeah, or doesn't describe it any

748
00:41:35,596 --> 00:41:36,276
Speaker 3: anybody does.

749
00:41:37,396 --> 00:41:39,116
Speaker 1: I didn't realize there were a Smile broke on on

750
00:41:39,236 --> 00:41:40,316
Speaker 1: black radio first.

751
00:41:40,796 --> 00:41:44,916
Speaker 3: Yeah, out of out of Ohio RB station, Ohio, not Dayton,

752
00:41:44,996 --> 00:41:47,556
Speaker 3: but some place like that. Uh. And and then it

753
00:41:47,636 --> 00:41:51,356
Speaker 3: spread through the ARMBA charts. And it wasn't until after

754
00:41:51,476 --> 00:41:53,556
Speaker 3: it was a it was a gigantic record in the

755
00:41:53,716 --> 00:41:56,196
Speaker 3: arm Bach charts that it went to. Uh, pop radio

756
00:41:57,276 --> 00:41:57,756
Speaker 3: makes sense.

757
00:41:57,836 --> 00:42:01,116
Speaker 1: I mean that is that is a hell of a

758
00:42:01,196 --> 00:42:05,196
Speaker 1: soulful record. And listening to a recently, I've always played guitar,

759
00:42:05,276 --> 00:42:07,276
Speaker 1: so I was always taken by the guitar part, and

760
00:42:07,396 --> 00:42:09,436
Speaker 1: I love vocals, so I always thinking about the vocal,

761
00:42:09,796 --> 00:42:12,396
Speaker 1: hadn't paid proper attention to the bass until recently. But

762
00:42:12,636 --> 00:42:14,116
Speaker 1: I think it was Leland scar on there.

763
00:42:15,156 --> 00:42:19,076
Speaker 3: I think it was Uh. The guy that played that

764
00:42:19,196 --> 00:42:22,676
Speaker 3: amazing guitar solo was Christopher Bond And that is one

765
00:42:22,716 --> 00:42:27,276
Speaker 3: of the most beautiful, amazing introduction guitar solos ever written.

766
00:42:27,796 --> 00:42:29,796
Speaker 1: It really is. I mean, the notes played, in the

767
00:42:29,796 --> 00:42:32,076
Speaker 1: way it's played, that the way he approaches it.

768
00:42:32,876 --> 00:42:35,516
Speaker 3: What an amazing guy. He was a very unusual guy.

769
00:42:36,116 --> 00:42:37,796
Speaker 3: He's unfortunately that anymore.

770
00:42:38,396 --> 00:42:40,716
Speaker 1: Your vocal runs on there too, are are? I mean

771
00:42:40,836 --> 00:42:42,636
Speaker 1: just your your choices vocally are?

772
00:42:43,156 --> 00:42:46,676
Speaker 3: I mean I was just being again just I don't

773
00:42:46,716 --> 00:42:49,636
Speaker 3: know that that that that was a real That was reality, man.

774
00:42:50,156 --> 00:42:52,276
Speaker 3: I wrote that song like a postcard to Sandy and

775
00:42:52,476 --> 00:42:55,236
Speaker 3: Sarah Allen and oh there it is.

776
00:42:57,876 --> 00:42:59,876
Speaker 1: We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with

777
00:43:00,156 --> 00:43:07,676
Speaker 1: Daryl Hall. How would you approach in the studio like

778
00:43:07,756 --> 00:43:09,996
Speaker 1: a song like a lone just thinking of that album

779
00:43:10,036 --> 00:43:11,196
Speaker 1: now like alone too long?

780
00:43:11,836 --> 00:43:12,156
Speaker 3: That was it?

781
00:43:12,236 --> 00:43:15,396
Speaker 1: That's a John song, right, That's a John song. How

782
00:43:15,476 --> 00:43:17,236
Speaker 1: much would you involve yourself with John songs?

783
00:43:17,236 --> 00:43:19,876
Speaker 3: I guess you know I would do all all the

784
00:43:19,916 --> 00:43:23,356
Speaker 3: backgrounds and everything. I would fletch out and John would

785
00:43:23,356 --> 00:43:27,076
Speaker 3: have the song. And this goes with any of his songs,

786
00:43:27,156 --> 00:43:29,476
Speaker 3: so there were on a whole of its record like

787
00:43:29,556 --> 00:43:31,396
Speaker 3: had I Known You Better Than or something like that,

788
00:43:31,916 --> 00:43:34,956
Speaker 3: and and alone too Long? And I would come up

789
00:43:35,036 --> 00:43:39,476
Speaker 3: with a vocal arrangement that would accompany his song and

790
00:43:39,996 --> 00:43:42,796
Speaker 3: do all the parts sing. If it was a three

791
00:43:42,836 --> 00:43:46,396
Speaker 3: part harmony, I'd sing three parts. And I mean, when

792
00:43:46,436 --> 00:43:49,836
Speaker 3: you listen to all of Oats records, that's all me

793
00:43:49,956 --> 00:43:52,476
Speaker 3: singing like kiss on my lists, that's all me sing

794
00:43:52,556 --> 00:43:55,636
Speaker 3: in the backgrounds. Occasionally John would sing a part on

795
00:43:56,076 --> 00:43:58,836
Speaker 3: a record, and sometimes he would I would sing the

796
00:43:58,876 --> 00:44:01,036
Speaker 3: parts and then tell him to sing over one of

797
00:44:01,116 --> 00:44:04,076
Speaker 3: the parts. That's how we did it, you know I

798
00:44:04,156 --> 00:44:04,796
Speaker 3: did it. Excuse me?

799
00:44:05,596 --> 00:44:07,956
Speaker 1: Was there anything in your view special about your blends?

800
00:44:08,236 --> 00:44:11,196
Speaker 1: Just the way your voices would blend well, the.

801
00:44:11,236 --> 00:44:15,796
Speaker 3: Reason to blend, because it was all me. If I

802
00:44:15,876 --> 00:44:17,356
Speaker 3: can blend with myself, then.

803
00:44:18,676 --> 00:44:22,036
Speaker 1: When might you, though, decide? John, sing this? I got

804
00:44:22,116 --> 00:44:24,316
Speaker 1: something for you? Sing this? Like? When would that occur

805
00:44:24,396 --> 00:44:24,516
Speaker 1: to you?

806
00:44:25,236 --> 00:44:27,956
Speaker 3: Because I wouldn't add is tambre to the to the background.

807
00:44:28,276 --> 00:44:29,836
Speaker 3: It was. It was one of those things. I mean,

808
00:44:29,916 --> 00:44:32,716
Speaker 3: John has a very distinct voice, and and it's not

809
00:44:32,796 --> 00:44:36,436
Speaker 3: a bad voice either. Hey I'm not putting that down.

810
00:44:36,716 --> 00:44:40,236
Speaker 3: But and and on stage you could tell we were

811
00:44:40,276 --> 00:44:42,676
Speaker 3: working together. I mean it was you wouldn't know in

812
00:44:42,756 --> 00:44:46,956
Speaker 3: a million years, but he was more of a take

813
00:44:47,036 --> 00:44:49,996
Speaker 3: dictation kind of a singer, you know, like sing this.

814
00:44:51,076 --> 00:44:53,756
Speaker 1: I mentioned I'm in a Philly Mood. That's one of

815
00:44:53,796 --> 00:44:58,716
Speaker 1: those songs that makes me wish I was actually from Philly,

816
00:44:59,716 --> 00:45:02,316
Speaker 1: which I could say I'm in a Philly Mood that

817
00:45:02,396 --> 00:45:05,676
Speaker 1: whole record, But I mean that that song is incredible. Borderline,

818
00:45:06,156 --> 00:45:09,236
Speaker 1: you have a Mariah sing backgrounds on a song and

819
00:45:09,316 --> 00:45:12,916
Speaker 1: co wrote a song, yeah, she wrote what was that?

820
00:45:12,996 --> 00:45:13,156
Speaker 3: One?

821
00:45:13,436 --> 00:45:15,476
Speaker 1: Helped me find a Way and the.

822
00:45:15,516 --> 00:45:17,916
Speaker 3: Way to your Heart? Yeah, yeah, that was a sorry

823
00:45:17,956 --> 00:45:20,236
Speaker 3: wrote with Mariah. Yet Philly Mood is one of my

824
00:45:20,316 --> 00:45:23,676
Speaker 3: favorite songs I ever wrote. I play that every show.

825
00:45:24,636 --> 00:45:27,716
Speaker 3: I love singing it. I like playing it. It really

826
00:45:27,836 --> 00:45:31,116
Speaker 3: describes the way I feel and the way I felt

827
00:45:31,796 --> 00:45:34,076
Speaker 3: and again the scenes that I was creating. And boy

828
00:45:34,156 --> 00:45:36,876
Speaker 3: is that real. That's a very emotional song to me,

829
00:45:37,676 --> 00:45:39,596
Speaker 3: kind of like Tony Bennett's I Left my Heart in

830
00:45:39,636 --> 00:45:44,036
Speaker 3: San Francisco. It's the mood, man, It's that's we mood.

831
00:45:44,516 --> 00:45:46,836
Speaker 1: You worked with the couple of folks from the Family

832
00:45:46,956 --> 00:45:50,716
Speaker 1: stand which I feel like that group is sort of

833
00:45:50,916 --> 00:45:53,556
Speaker 1: maybe the lost of time of it. But they were really,

834
00:45:54,156 --> 00:45:54,716
Speaker 1: really cool.

835
00:45:55,396 --> 00:45:57,916
Speaker 3: They were really cool. I don't know why that didn't

836
00:45:57,996 --> 00:46:00,956
Speaker 3: really stick around, you know, they and and Peter and

837
00:46:01,036 --> 00:46:03,356
Speaker 3: Jeff that's Peter Lord and Jeff Smith. That was a

838
00:46:03,436 --> 00:46:05,556
Speaker 3: really interesting combo that we had going That was a

839
00:46:05,876 --> 00:46:09,636
Speaker 3: talk about Philly mood. You know. Uh, Peter was really good.

840
00:46:09,716 --> 00:46:13,316
Speaker 3: He egged me on, you know, he really He brought

841
00:46:13,316 --> 00:46:14,836
Speaker 3: a certain thing out of me that I don't think

842
00:46:14,836 --> 00:46:17,876
Speaker 3: anybody anybody else has, you know. And I think that

843
00:46:17,996 --> 00:46:21,716
Speaker 3: that sol a Loan record sort of reflects that, and

844
00:46:21,836 --> 00:46:24,916
Speaker 3: he reflects the move the thing that he brought out

845
00:46:24,956 --> 00:46:25,116
Speaker 3: in me.

846
00:46:25,436 --> 00:46:26,756
Speaker 1: Do you think you can put into words what he

847
00:46:26,796 --> 00:46:27,276
Speaker 1: brought out of you?

848
00:46:27,916 --> 00:46:31,116
Speaker 3: No, I can't. It's it's just something that's certain kind

849
00:46:31,156 --> 00:46:36,276
Speaker 3: of jazz soul thing that I occasionally do. But brought

850
00:46:36,316 --> 00:46:37,276
Speaker 3: that to the front.

851
00:46:37,516 --> 00:46:38,956
Speaker 1: When you did. It helped me find a way to

852
00:46:39,036 --> 00:46:42,316
Speaker 1: heart with Mariah. I think emotions maybe had been a

853
00:46:42,396 --> 00:46:45,436
Speaker 1: hit at that point, But were you very familiar with her.

854
00:46:45,876 --> 00:46:49,316
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, it was Tommy Motola's girlfriend, right, I mean,

855
00:46:49,956 --> 00:46:53,716
Speaker 3: my god. And she actually came up with with she

856
00:46:53,876 --> 00:46:55,716
Speaker 3: came up with the course of that and she and

857
00:46:55,876 --> 00:46:57,836
Speaker 3: she played it for me and then went from there.

858
00:46:58,396 --> 00:46:59,516
Speaker 1: So that song started with her.

859
00:47:00,556 --> 00:47:03,236
Speaker 3: Yeah, she she sent me that, she sent me a

860
00:47:03,276 --> 00:47:05,996
Speaker 3: tape to help me find a way to your heart,

861
00:47:07,236 --> 00:47:09,956
Speaker 3: and then I I kind of enhanced it.

862
00:47:10,276 --> 00:47:13,676
Speaker 1: I always feel like people sleep on Mariah as a songwriter,

863
00:47:13,876 --> 00:47:15,476
Speaker 1: you know, as someone who can write a song.

864
00:47:16,036 --> 00:47:20,196
Speaker 3: I think Mariah is a very talented person, as we

865
00:47:20,516 --> 00:47:23,996
Speaker 3: all know. And uh, but I think that they she

866
00:47:24,116 --> 00:47:27,436
Speaker 3: got into that old diva thing and and you know,

867
00:47:27,556 --> 00:47:31,316
Speaker 3: with the big voice and and all over the place voice,

868
00:47:31,956 --> 00:47:35,636
Speaker 3: and but that kind of takes away from the source

869
00:47:35,676 --> 00:47:37,956
Speaker 3: of it, you know, the fact that she can put

870
00:47:37,996 --> 00:47:41,716
Speaker 3: together a good song. She's she's good. Man. Mariah's happening.

871
00:47:42,356 --> 00:47:46,156
Speaker 1: Yeah, are you gonna do any more Live from Darryl's House?

872
00:47:46,876 --> 00:47:50,916
Speaker 3: That going one on Tuesday? And I'm not gonna tell

873
00:47:50,916 --> 00:47:53,796
Speaker 3: you with who because I never do. But yeah, that's

874
00:47:53,916 --> 00:47:56,756
Speaker 3: that's an ongoing project. I've been doing it for a

875
00:47:56,876 --> 00:48:00,676
Speaker 3: long time, and uh, I've decided instead of doing a

876
00:48:00,716 --> 00:48:03,756
Speaker 3: whole season So I'm just gonna do occasional ones, maybe

877
00:48:04,116 --> 00:48:06,676
Speaker 3: in groups of one and two, three or something like that,

878
00:48:07,196 --> 00:48:08,916
Speaker 3: and just keep adding to my YouTube.

879
00:48:09,156 --> 00:48:11,796
Speaker 1: Know what does that add to your life, your creative

880
00:48:11,836 --> 00:48:12,956
Speaker 1: life doing that show?

881
00:48:13,756 --> 00:48:15,876
Speaker 3: I love it. I loved life from Darryl's House. I

882
00:48:15,956 --> 00:48:20,916
Speaker 3: love doing it. It's the most stimulating experience that you

883
00:48:20,996 --> 00:48:24,436
Speaker 3: can imagine, because we don't do any rehearsing, only the

884
00:48:24,516 --> 00:48:28,596
Speaker 3: most rudimentary of do. We know what's happening, and so

885
00:48:28,716 --> 00:48:31,556
Speaker 3: everybody is completely on their toes doing it for the

886
00:48:31,636 --> 00:48:35,316
Speaker 3: first time. There's an artist in there that may or

887
00:48:35,356 --> 00:48:39,276
Speaker 3: may not be comfortable, and I have to make them comfortable.

888
00:48:40,316 --> 00:48:44,236
Speaker 3: Sometimes they're you know, sometimes there's especially the heritage artists,

889
00:48:44,236 --> 00:48:46,796
Speaker 3: they're stuck in their ways and I have to unstick them.

890
00:48:47,396 --> 00:48:47,556
Speaker 1: You know.

891
00:48:47,716 --> 00:48:49,716
Speaker 3: There's there's so many things going on, and then we

892
00:48:49,836 --> 00:48:53,876
Speaker 3: have those amazing you know, conversations around dinner and the

893
00:48:53,956 --> 00:48:57,396
Speaker 3: whole thing. It's an amazing experience. Usually takes me two

894
00:48:57,476 --> 00:48:58,556
Speaker 3: days to recover from one.

895
00:49:00,036 --> 00:49:02,076
Speaker 1: Have you ever come out of one feeling like, oh,

896
00:49:02,156 --> 00:49:05,036
Speaker 1: maybe I should maybe we could do a whole record together,

897
00:49:05,196 --> 00:49:07,076
Speaker 1: you know, Well, yeah, I.

898
00:49:07,116 --> 00:49:10,156
Speaker 3: Mean, I I've got a lot of people. I mean

899
00:49:10,236 --> 00:49:13,076
Speaker 3: what I've been doing instead of making records together, like okay,

900
00:49:13,116 --> 00:49:15,916
Speaker 3: I'm going out on the road Glenn Tilbrook, uh, and

901
00:49:16,036 --> 00:49:18,076
Speaker 3: that I'm going to be working with him all year,

902
00:49:18,916 --> 00:49:22,076
Speaker 3: I think, off and on, and he's a he's an

903
00:49:22,196 --> 00:49:25,916
Speaker 3: LFDH left Darrel's House to alumni at this point, you know.

904
00:49:26,356 --> 00:49:28,836
Speaker 3: So I think that I came up with this idea

905
00:49:29,036 --> 00:49:32,436
Speaker 3: based on the how we work together that way, and

906
00:49:32,556 --> 00:49:34,396
Speaker 3: there's anomber. You know, there's a lot of artists like that.

907
00:49:34,756 --> 00:49:37,596
Speaker 3: Howard Jones is another one that I've done. Todd obviously,

908
00:49:38,156 --> 00:49:40,116
Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's what I do on stage Now,

909
00:49:40,156 --> 00:49:42,116
Speaker 3: I do a version of life from Daryl's House.

910
00:49:42,276 --> 00:49:44,036
Speaker 1: And that's maybe more rewarded because I just think, I

911
00:49:44,116 --> 00:49:47,836
Speaker 1: mean that that that you can get and most especially

912
00:49:48,196 --> 00:49:51,156
Speaker 1: heritage artists, that you can get them to come and

913
00:49:51,316 --> 00:49:53,756
Speaker 1: play in that way that you do and get them comfortable,

914
00:49:54,556 --> 00:49:56,956
Speaker 1: but also sort of be on the edge a bit

915
00:49:57,036 --> 00:49:58,756
Speaker 1: of we don't exactly know what we're doing, but we

916
00:49:59,036 --> 00:50:02,116
Speaker 1: know exactly you know what we're doing. Like that's like,

917
00:50:02,676 --> 00:50:04,916
Speaker 1: that's that's it. I mean, you're basically producing these people

918
00:50:04,956 --> 00:50:07,156
Speaker 1: and that's not something that I think they're always accustomed to,

919
00:50:07,516 --> 00:50:07,716
Speaker 1: you know.

920
00:50:07,876 --> 00:50:10,476
Speaker 3: I am. I am doing exactly that on the spot,

921
00:50:10,996 --> 00:50:14,676
Speaker 3: and you're right, people aren't accustomed to it. Oddly enough,

922
00:50:14,756 --> 00:50:17,836
Speaker 3: the brand new artists are the easiest ones because they

923
00:50:17,876 --> 00:50:20,436
Speaker 3: don't know what's going on. They're just like puppy dogs.

924
00:50:20,476 --> 00:50:23,636
Speaker 3: They're like, let's go, let's do it. You know. You

925
00:50:23,756 --> 00:50:25,596
Speaker 3: take a guy who's been around for as long as me,

926
00:50:25,636 --> 00:50:27,796
Speaker 3: and he's like, am I doing the right thing? Here?

927
00:50:27,916 --> 00:50:30,876
Speaker 3: My fucking up? You know, this isn't the way I

928
00:50:30,916 --> 00:50:31,876
Speaker 3: always sing this song.

929
00:50:33,396 --> 00:50:35,196
Speaker 1: I mean, it's interesting even seeing The Fruit. I just

930
00:50:35,236 --> 00:50:37,196
Speaker 1: watched it. I didn't really know that Robert Frupp had

931
00:50:37,236 --> 00:50:38,636
Speaker 1: been on that. I didn't know why how I missed

932
00:50:38,676 --> 00:50:40,596
Speaker 1: that one. But I was watching that last week, and

933
00:50:41,236 --> 00:50:43,636
Speaker 1: even he seemed a little you know, me as adventurous

934
00:50:43,636 --> 00:50:45,396
Speaker 1: as they come, but even he seemed a little a

935
00:50:45,476 --> 00:50:46,516
Speaker 1: little nervous. You know.

936
00:50:47,756 --> 00:50:51,636
Speaker 3: Well, Robert is a very controlled person, but with an

937
00:50:51,636 --> 00:50:54,036
Speaker 3: amazing sense of humor. I got to add, But but

938
00:50:54,156 --> 00:50:56,516
Speaker 3: I know he was he was good, he was fine.

939
00:50:56,556 --> 00:50:59,676
Speaker 3: I think he just was really he wanted to He'd

940
00:50:59,716 --> 00:51:01,356
Speaker 3: been wanting to do this for a long time, is

941
00:51:01,396 --> 00:51:03,636
Speaker 3: what it was. Is We've been trying to get together

942
00:51:03,716 --> 00:51:08,236
Speaker 3: for years and it finally happened and maybe that that showed, you.

943
00:51:08,276 --> 00:51:10,756
Speaker 1: Know, and you guys do I think it's NYC And

944
00:51:10,796 --> 00:51:13,556
Speaker 1: why that has that like just insane opening riff?

945
00:51:14,236 --> 00:51:20,436
Speaker 3: You know it? How did he come up with that?

946
00:51:20,636 --> 00:51:21,116
Speaker 3: I don't know.

947
00:51:21,356 --> 00:51:23,156
Speaker 1: He's insane and he's like, you know, I haven't done

948
00:51:23,156 --> 00:51:25,316
Speaker 1: this in forty something year, you know, just like oh this,

949
00:51:25,516 --> 00:51:27,356
Speaker 1: that's the level of his genius is that he's just

950
00:51:27,596 --> 00:51:28,876
Speaker 1: these things are just coming out of them.

951
00:51:28,996 --> 00:51:32,356
Speaker 3: You know, He's unbelievable, is what he is.

952
00:51:32,636 --> 00:51:34,596
Speaker 1: If I wrote that riff, I would never stop playing it.

953
00:51:36,796 --> 00:51:40,356
Speaker 3: He just over that shit. That's just another riff for

954
00:51:40,436 --> 00:51:40,636
Speaker 3: you know.

955
00:51:41,716 --> 00:51:44,516
Speaker 1: Were you into King Crimson in the day, Oh yeah.

956
00:51:44,636 --> 00:51:47,596
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was very much into that to his version

957
00:51:47,636 --> 00:51:50,476
Speaker 3: of progressive rock. Well, I was into him. This is

958
00:51:50,516 --> 00:51:53,196
Speaker 3: what I was into. I mean, you know, we didn't

959
00:51:53,196 --> 00:51:57,876
Speaker 3: do red From on the show, and I'm so proud

960
00:51:57,916 --> 00:52:01,516
Speaker 3: of my band. They just played that now. Roberts said,

961
00:52:01,876 --> 00:52:05,436
Speaker 3: I have never been in any organization that ever played

962
00:52:05,476 --> 00:52:07,396
Speaker 3: that song that it didn't take at least three days

963
00:52:07,436 --> 00:52:10,396
Speaker 3: to learn it, and these guys play it. They just

964
00:52:10,716 --> 00:52:13,916
Speaker 3: listened to it at home by themselves. We got together

965
00:52:14,076 --> 00:52:15,996
Speaker 3: and we played the motherbucker, you know. I mean, it's

966
00:52:16,236 --> 00:52:20,036
Speaker 3: one band I got, but that comes, you know, my

967
00:52:20,196 --> 00:52:22,396
Speaker 3: love for King King Crimson comes from back then. The

968
00:52:22,476 --> 00:52:24,516
Speaker 3: Lark's tunging aspect and all that stuff. I mean, I

969
00:52:25,156 --> 00:52:27,516
Speaker 3: heard the I heard the power and the soul in it,

970
00:52:27,676 --> 00:52:30,756
Speaker 3: and I heard the the Stravinsky in it. I heard

971
00:52:30,876 --> 00:52:32,916
Speaker 3: everything in it. But I think that he's a very

972
00:52:32,996 --> 00:52:34,036
Speaker 3: unique musician.

973
00:52:34,316 --> 00:52:35,556
Speaker 1: I don't want to keep it too much longer, but

974
00:52:35,596 --> 00:52:37,276
Speaker 1: I do want to return to I feel like maybe

975
00:52:37,356 --> 00:52:40,156
Speaker 1: I glossed over Christopher Bond. We mentioned him a couple

976
00:52:40,196 --> 00:52:44,196
Speaker 1: of times during the conversation, so he comes in during

977
00:52:44,236 --> 00:52:46,596
Speaker 1: the band in lunchinette. Was it a reef that brought

978
00:52:46,676 --> 00:52:46,876
Speaker 1: him in?

979
00:52:47,636 --> 00:52:50,156
Speaker 3: No, he was. He's a Philly guy. He was. He

980
00:52:50,276 --> 00:52:52,916
Speaker 3: was in our band, John and I had our little

981
00:52:53,676 --> 00:52:54,756
Speaker 3: quartete and he was.

982
00:52:54,876 --> 00:52:55,116
Speaker 1: He was.

983
00:52:55,436 --> 00:52:56,316
Speaker 3: He was one of the guys.

984
00:52:56,436 --> 00:52:57,036
Speaker 1: He was in your bad.

985
00:52:57,076 --> 00:53:00,036
Speaker 3: I didn't realize he was in yeah, in the in

986
00:53:00,116 --> 00:53:01,036
Speaker 3: the beginning, Yeah.

987
00:53:02,236 --> 00:53:05,476
Speaker 1: Someone else from Philly. I was just scarious what happened

988
00:53:05,516 --> 00:53:08,716
Speaker 1: to Jim Helmer, who was the drummer Gulliver played on

989
00:53:09,156 --> 00:53:11,516
Speaker 1: Whole Oats incredible drum parts on that record.

990
00:53:12,156 --> 00:53:14,756
Speaker 3: I know it was good. I lost track at Jim.

991
00:53:14,916 --> 00:53:17,956
Speaker 3: I lost track of all those guys. I know, Tim

992
00:53:18,036 --> 00:53:21,396
Speaker 3: Moore was, he was a songwriter, guitar player. He was

993
00:53:21,436 --> 00:53:23,916
Speaker 3: a woodstock. That's all I know. But I don't know anything.

994
00:53:24,316 --> 00:53:25,836
Speaker 3: I have no idea what happened to Jim.

995
00:53:25,996 --> 00:53:28,596
Speaker 1: Just wanted, well I have you. I just that always

996
00:53:28,636 --> 00:53:30,076
Speaker 1: bugged me. Just didn't know what happened though.

997
00:53:31,196 --> 00:53:33,316
Speaker 3: Definitely the first person to ever asked me about Jim Milan,

998
00:53:34,596 --> 00:53:35,236
Speaker 3: which is cool.

999
00:53:35,516 --> 00:53:38,956
Speaker 1: Just bat and clean up here. I do want to

1000
00:53:38,996 --> 00:53:42,796
Speaker 1: ask you about G. E. Smith too. How important do

1001
00:53:42,956 --> 00:53:45,876
Speaker 1: you feel he was to that version of Holland Oates.

1002
00:53:47,036 --> 00:53:51,556
Speaker 3: I think he added his very large personality to things.

1003
00:53:52,316 --> 00:53:56,236
Speaker 3: I think that his guitar work on the records that

1004
00:53:56,316 --> 00:53:58,276
Speaker 3: he played on on holl Of Oats Records, well it

1005
00:53:58,436 --> 00:54:01,876
Speaker 3: was really really exceptional. I did. I think he did

1006
00:54:01,916 --> 00:54:04,876
Speaker 3: a lot of things that were really amazing. He didn't

1007
00:54:04,876 --> 00:54:07,276
Speaker 3: get the way he added the ge sound to it.

1008
00:54:07,396 --> 00:54:10,516
Speaker 3: You know, I mean, I'm again a great guitar.

1009
00:54:10,356 --> 00:54:14,076
Speaker 1: Player, and that the ge sound wasn't really you know,

1010
00:54:14,476 --> 00:54:18,316
Speaker 1: uh a thing that I'd been on records like that before,

1011
00:54:18,396 --> 00:54:20,396
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you guys really were the first

1012
00:54:20,436 --> 00:54:22,676
Speaker 1: to get him like that. Yeah, oh, give me a.

1013
00:54:22,676 --> 00:54:27,756
Speaker 3: Brand new He was straight out of He's from Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania. Yeah, Yeah,

1014
00:54:27,916 --> 00:54:30,396
Speaker 3: and I met him when he had just moved out

1015
00:54:30,436 --> 00:54:32,236
Speaker 3: of there. Basically, did you just.

1016
00:54:32,276 --> 00:54:34,156
Speaker 1: Let him go or was there much shaping? Would you

1017
00:54:34,196 --> 00:54:35,356
Speaker 1: talk through parts with him?

1018
00:54:35,476 --> 00:54:37,996
Speaker 3: Or I'd let him go, But I would let him

1019
00:54:38,036 --> 00:54:40,556
Speaker 3: go within a controlled situation, you know, I mean and

1020
00:54:40,916 --> 00:54:43,036
Speaker 3: tell him what I thought. And if he did something

1021
00:54:43,076 --> 00:54:45,156
Speaker 3: I didn't like, I'd say tell him that too. You know,

1022
00:54:45,916 --> 00:54:48,716
Speaker 3: he usually did the right thing. Was that a good

1023
00:54:48,756 --> 00:54:53,916
Speaker 3: relationship overall? Or we had a we had a Leslie

1024
00:54:53,996 --> 00:54:57,476
Speaker 3: good relationship because he's he's a He's a strange guy, man.

1025
00:54:57,636 --> 00:54:58,036
Speaker 1: I mean he.

1026
00:54:59,796 --> 00:55:03,716
Speaker 3: I don't know how to put it. Personality, His personality

1027
00:55:03,716 --> 00:55:07,796
Speaker 3: of mine weren't exactly in line. That's the best way

1028
00:55:07,796 --> 00:55:08,996
Speaker 3: I'll put it. I could put it.

1029
00:55:09,436 --> 00:55:12,596
Speaker 1: I think that's a way that everyone can understand. Yeah,

1030
00:55:13,356 --> 00:55:16,836
Speaker 1: it doesn't diminish the talent. Yeah, at this point, set

1031
00:55:16,916 --> 00:55:20,036
Speaker 1: list wise, when you go do dates, how are you

1032
00:55:20,116 --> 00:55:20,916
Speaker 1: picking a set list?

1033
00:55:22,116 --> 00:55:24,956
Speaker 3: I do a little. Well, I'm I'm going to try

1034
00:55:25,036 --> 00:55:28,436
Speaker 3: and emphasize the d album, but I think I'm going

1035
00:55:28,516 --> 00:55:31,636
Speaker 3: to do about four songs from that. That's that's that's

1036
00:55:31,716 --> 00:55:34,876
Speaker 3: my plan. Well, I'm already I've already been doing that.

1037
00:55:35,556 --> 00:55:40,996
Speaker 3: And other than that, I play things from whatever, you know,

1038
00:55:41,156 --> 00:55:46,316
Speaker 3: from whatever my history is. And there's certain songs that

1039
00:55:46,556 --> 00:55:47,996
Speaker 3: you have to play. I mean, you know, I have

1040
00:55:48,076 --> 00:55:51,476
Speaker 3: to play Sarah Smile, which is fine with me. You know,

1041
00:55:51,836 --> 00:55:54,476
Speaker 3: I mix it up, I play Philly Mood, I play

1042
00:55:54,596 --> 00:55:55,396
Speaker 3: all kinds of things.

1043
00:55:56,356 --> 00:55:59,396
Speaker 1: Well, Darryl Hall, thank you so much for for for

1044
00:55:59,516 --> 00:56:01,276
Speaker 1: talking about all this. I mean, that's a hell of

1045
00:56:01,316 --> 00:56:05,116
Speaker 1: a musical history. So I mean, thank you, well, thanks

1046
00:56:05,156 --> 00:56:10,396
Speaker 1: for having me. Manis description, you'll find a link to

1047
00:56:10,476 --> 00:56:13,356
Speaker 1: a playlist of our favorite Darryl Hall tracks. Be sure

1048
00:56:13,396 --> 00:56:15,796
Speaker 1: to check out YouTube dot com slash broken Record to

1049
00:56:15,876 --> 00:56:18,756
Speaker 1: see all of our video interviews, and be sure to

1050
00:56:18,796 --> 00:56:21,996
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. You

1051
00:56:22,076 --> 00:56:25,436
Speaker 1: can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record

1052
00:56:25,516 --> 00:56:28,196
Speaker 1: is produced by Leah Rose with marketing help from Eric

1053
00:56:28,316 --> 00:56:32,636
Speaker 1: Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliday. Broken

1054
00:56:32,716 --> 00:56:35,996
Speaker 1: Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love

1055
00:56:36,076 --> 00:56:40,116
Speaker 1: this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.

1056
00:56:40,756 --> 00:56:44,036
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content

1057
00:56:44,156 --> 00:56:46,836
Speaker 1: and ad free listening for four ninety nine a month.

1058
00:56:47,556 --> 00:56:51,436
Speaker 1: Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if

1059
00:56:51,476 --> 00:56:53,876
Speaker 1: you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and

1060
00:56:53,956 --> 00:56:56,796
Speaker 1: review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by

1061
00:56:56,836 --> 00:56:57,396
Speaker 1: Kenny Beats.

1062
00:56:57,636 --> 00:56:58,676
Speaker 3: I'm justin Richmond.