WEBVTT - Canaries in Coal Mines with Therapist Lori Gottlieb 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:04.480 Hi, Hi Catherine, and how are you, hi, Chelsea. I'm great. 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:06.800 It's kind of freezing today. I'm kind of freezing saying 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:09.640 it's a perfect time for me to go to Whistler. 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:14.200 I'm going. No, I can stop me. I can't fucking 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:16.599 wait to go skiing. Oh my gosh, how long do 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:18.720 you stay up there? Well, this year is going to 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:20.279 be a little different because I'm gonna come back to 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:23.200 do some more podcasts and then I have some stand 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.000 up dates up there. But all my Canadian dates are 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:29.040 January through March, and then I have some Seattle in 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:32.240 between February three and second i have Seattle in Portland, 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:34.720 and but I'm going to stay up there for the 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:38.199 majority of the winter time, and Joe Coy will be 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:40.720 introduced to Whistler. I was gonna ask, will you go 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.080 for the whole time or while he's on tour still too, 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.000 so he will use that as his home base. Oh, 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:48.440 I love that. This is great. Yeah, I can't wait 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:49.919 for all my friends to come visit me up there 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:53.000 now that we're not well, hopefully down through the thick 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:54.680 of it. But who knows what the hell is on 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:58.480 the horizon? Yeah, it was. It was actually like terrifying. 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:00.160 In one of the ads that we recorded to day 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:01.800 where they said, well, it's that time of the year. 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.880 Whether those sniffles are you know, sniffles are COVID nineteen, 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:06.760 I was like, oh, so it is just that time 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:09.920 of the year now. Somebody said to me COVID will 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:11.360 go about be going on for the next three to 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:14.759 five years, and I was like, that sounds about right. Yeah, Well, 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:17.720 I have some brighter news for you. A follow up 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:22.120 from t who called in last season. She was on 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:25.080 our episode Open to Happy Endings and she had had 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:28.080 some sexual trauma and was dealing with that while she 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.280 was with her current partner and having some some issues 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.520 related to that. So we got ahold of her afterward 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:37.959 and I gave her a recommendation for a therapist to 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:40.959 see and this is what she said, Hi, Catherine, I 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:42.800 just wanted to thank you again for your help in 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:47.000 finding a therapist. I contacted Healthy Relationships b C and 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:50.480 have found a therapist I connected with who's accommodating to 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.680 my limited budget as a student. Today I had my 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:55.960 first session of E. M. D R Therapy and it 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:58.880 went really well and I'm so optimistic about the healing 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:01.520 that is going to come from this. I can't believe 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:03.840 this all came about because I happened to see Chelsea's 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:08.160 Instagram story asking for questions and missions. Anyway, I wanted 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.560 you and Chelsea to know how grateful I am for 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.400 the opportunity to share my struggle and your help and 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:18.520 encouragement and finding supports to start healing. Thanks again, t Oh, 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.600 that's a great update. Thank you. I was doing that. 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:24.600 I was so happy to get that email from her. 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:27.519 And yeah, because it is, it's sort of it's one 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:29.760 step at a time. You take those baby steps, you 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.519 get started, and I think e M d R will 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.160 be a really have you tried that I have? And 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:36.840 you know who was just talking about that publicly with 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:39.239 Sandy Bullock on the Red Table Talk. She was talking 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:41.760 about e M d R. She had an intruder into 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:45.000 her like come into her house and she had PTSD 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:47.640 from that and that she did a lot of a 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:50.160 M d R and she said it was so healing. Yeah, 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.960 I think especially for any sort of physical trauma like 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.560 that where it's someone invading your space or you know, 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:59.680 as t had sexual trauma, I think it's so so helpful. 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:03.360 So that actually leads us right into our guest today. 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:05.280 Oh yes, it was also a therapist. Yeah, we have 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.680 a real therapist. You guys, don't be jealous if you're 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:12.040 not on this episode. Our guest today Lori Gottlieb, who 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.639 is a psychotherapist and a New York Times bestselling author 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.280 of Maybe You Should Talk to Someone. That's the title 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:21.560 of the book that I read, and it's sold over 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.320 a million copies and it's currently being adapted as a 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:28.760 television series and there's also a new workbook version of this. 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.200 She is also the co host of the very popular 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:36.840 Dear Therapist podcast. She writes a weekly column in advice 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:40.400 column for The Atlantic called Deer Therapist, and her Ted 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.560 Talk was one of the top ten most watched of 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:48.720 the year. So please welcome Laurie Gottlieb. Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello, 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:52.040 how are you. I'm well? How are you? I'm well? 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:56.760 Thank you. This is my co host, Catherine. Hello. Hi there, Hi, 0:03:57.360 --> 0:03:59.040 it's very nice to speak with you. First of all, 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:03.160 congratulations on all of your success. Well, thank you. Yeah, 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.480 it's nice, right, nice to be successful, it is. I 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.160 can't I can't argue with that, especially when you are 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:12.600 helping people while you're achieving that success, I would imagine 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:16.000 that is an even greater victory. I came up across 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.960 your book right after I think my book came out 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.720 shortly before your book, and then I was reading your book, 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:24.360 and then everyone was reading your book, and there were 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:29.679 so many similarities from my therapy experience with my psychologist 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:32.280 that I was able to relate to in your book 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:34.560 and your book, that book, Maybe You Should talk To 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:40.040 Someone is a collection of many couples and people that 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:43.520 you worked with, right, Yeah, So basically in the book, 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.320 I follow the lives of four of my patients as 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:49.440 they go through various struggles, and then, uh, there's a 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:51.400 fifth patient in the book, and the fifth patient is 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.600 me as I go to my own therapist because I'm 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:58.920 going through an unexpected breakup, and so you see kind 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:02.080 of therapy with me as the therapist and me as 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.000 the patient. And it was very insightful to see that 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.880 because I guess as a therapist, I think a lot 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.120 of people always forget we assume that therapists have all 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.320 the answers. You know, that you guys are there to 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.680 help us kind of navigate everything, and I think people 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:18.920 can sometimes forget that you're a human being. As well 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:22.039 and need your own guidance. Yeah. I mean I say 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.120 at the beginning of the book that my most significant 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:26.000 credential is that I'm a card carrying member of the 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:27.839 human race. That I think, you know, I know what 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:29.640 it's like to be a person in the world. And 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:32.120 I think that there's this idea that when you go 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:35.279 to a therapist, that they're like these perfectly put together people. 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:37.720 And I think the other trope that people have of 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:39.839 therapist is that they're like the hot mess, you know, 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.360 like the person who's like like an in treatment, you know, 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:44.839 where they're like breaking boundaries and having sex with their patients. 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.320 And it's not like that. It just we are exactly 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:51.880 like you, except that we're trained to help you deal 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:53.680 with your struggles, and then we go to people who 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:56.360 are trained to help us deal with our struggles. And 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.279 do you find yourself as a professional, Do you find 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:01.839 yourself or another outlet that you can kind of get 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.240 that feedback from. Do you have a community of other 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:07.120 therapists that you work with or meet with or anything 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:09.960 like that. Yeah, so, and maybe you should talk to someone. 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:11.640 You get to see something that a lot of people 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:15.320 don't realize, but most therapists have consultation groups. So every 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:17.680 week we meet with a group of our colleagues and 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:20.159 we go over our cases and so we talk about, 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:22.400 you know, where we're stuck, or we want advice, or 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.240 we want feedback. So it's not just us alone in 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.160 a room with somebody. But if we really want, you know, 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.080 to run by somebody else, we we have that option. 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:33.400 And I think when it comes to our personal lives, 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.000 you know, I think that I really think that therapy 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.599 can be so valuable for people. And I'm not saying 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.320 that because I'm a therapist. I'm saying that as a patient, 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:43.880 because I feel like, you know, I talked in the 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.280 book about the difference between idiot compassion and wise compassion. 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:49.800 So we go to our friends with a problem and 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:52.159 we're like, listen to what my partner did, or my 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:54.680 boss did or my sister did, and we're like, yeah, 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.400 they're wrong, You're right. You go girl, you know, because 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:00.680 we think we're supporting them, but really, you know, when 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:02.920 you listen to your friends over time, it's almost like 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:05.880 you'll hear that maybe it's with a different person, or 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:07.760 maybe it's even with the same person that they're sort 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:09.880 of describing the same thing over and over, and the 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:12.520 common denominator is them. It's kind of like if a 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:14.800 fight breaks out in every bar you're going to, maybe 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:18.120 it's you, but we do not say that to our friends. 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:20.760 And so when you go to therapy, instead of getting 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:24.160 idiot compassion, you get wise compassion where we hold up 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:26.080 a mirror to you and we help you to see 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:29.280 something about yourself that maybe you haven't been willing or 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:31.960 able to see. And the word compassion is in there 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.800 because it's done in a very compassionate way. But it's 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:37.400 really important for us to see our own role in 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.200 our own lives, and you know what we might be 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:42.960 doing that is getting in our way. Yeah, I mean 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.200 that was very clear to see with one of your patients, 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.040 who I would describe as an asshole upon reading it. 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.000 Obviously you use more careful language because you are a 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:54.360 compassionate therapist, but you know this guy who was so 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:58.200 clearly stuck in his own bullshit and his own narrative 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.400 and just repeating the rep Titian of his of his 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:05.640 behavior basically and not being able to see outside of yourself. 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:07.960 And I think that is the gift of self awareness 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:11.680 is pretty much the one tangible. Not the one tangible, 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.120 but the most prominent tangible thing that I walked away 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.680 from therapy with is the gift of self awareness. Well, 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:19.400 that's right, And I think when you talk about him 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.160 being an asshole, I think, you know, he was incredibly 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:25.320 insulting and unlikable at the beginning of the book, but 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:28.200 he becomes the person that I think most people like 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:30.640 the most by the end of the book because once 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:33.000 you see why he's acting that way, and I think sometimes, 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.240 you know, we don't take the time to figure out, well, 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.679 why is someone acting that way because they're speaking with 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.280 their behaviors if they don't have the words, or something 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:43.720 is so unspeakable, as there was something in his life 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:46.520 without spoiling it, you know, if something is so unspeakable, 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:48.960 we speak with our behavior. It comes out in other ways. 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.240 So once he started talking about it, he started to 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:57.000 change his behavior and and he becomes like incredibly lovable 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:00.839 and somebody that that I think people are drawn toward. Yeah. Absolutely, 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.200 I recognize a lot of myself and him too. That's 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:05.080 why I feel so free to be able to call 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:07.240 him an asshole, because that's what I was before I 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.360 went to therapy. So this podcast. Well, I mean, I 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:13.240 know you're good at giving advice obviously, so we're very 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:15.960 excited to have a professional on the podcast because we 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.720 are not. But I like to give advice anyway. We 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:21.280 have people call in, you know, with life problems, we're 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:23.319 going to give them just some feedback. So we're so 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:26.360 happy to have you here today, Laurie, Thank you great, great, 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:28.920 excited to do this. Yeah, well, before we get to 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:31.160 all the fun stuff, we'll take a quick break. Okay, 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:36.920 sounds good. We'll be right back. Our first call comes 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:42.079 from Lizzie. She is a clinical psychologist. She says, Dear Chelsea, 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.040 I'm having a hard time with my family. I've always 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.920 felt a little different, and I've been labeled the emotional one. 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.160 I've been a crier since I was a kid, and 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.240 my mom could never handle it. Well, i just completed 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:56.319 my doctorate in psychology, and I've also been really trying 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:58.800 to put the work in for myself. I feel the 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:00.720 older I get and the more I learn, the more 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:04.160 I see my family's toxic traits, their tendency toward judgment 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:08.200 and criticism, their old school ideas. For example, you're turning 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:10.400 thirty soon, when are you going to get married and 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:13.640 start having kids. I feel so frustrated because I wish 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:15.719 they could see how damaging some of the things they 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.400 say and do can be. But they're my family and 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:20.440 I love them, and I'm just not sure I like 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:22.960 them right now. I know I'm biased because I'm a 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:26.319 new psychologist, but I'm also not trying to therapyze them. 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.880 How do I reconcile this, How do I manage healthy 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:32.640 relationships with people who are unwilling to look inward on themselves? 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:35.360 And how do I communicate these things without sounding like 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.080 the know it all family member who just got their 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:44.920 doctorate in psychology. Lizzy, Hi, Lizzie, Hi, Lizzie. Well, so 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:49.120 I'll just jump in if that's okay. So I was thinking, 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:52.920 you know, when a lot of people grow up and say, 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:54.920 my family said I was too sensitive, or my family 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:57.080 said that I overreacted to things, or my family said 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.280 I was just I couldn't just let things go, and 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.160 I was very differ cult. Right, So we talk about 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.160 the identified patient in the family, and they identified patient 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.400 is the person who kind of holds all the symptoms 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:10.439 for the family that nobody is talking about, and that 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:12.920 person becomes like the canary in the coal mind. That 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:15.800 person becomes first says, wait a minute, there's there's a 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:19.440 problem here, right, So it's not that the other people 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:21.720 in the family are bad people. It's that they never 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:25.480 learned how to talk about emotions. They were they're very 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:29.240 uncomfortable with emotions. So if your child starts having these 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:32.560 normal human emotions and you're uncomfortable around them, you might 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:34.920 say to your child, Oh, don't be so sensitive, Oh 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:38.240 just let it go, right. And then sometimes these people 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:41.320 grow up to become adults who are very depressed, and 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.320 we have this saying, you know, before diagnosing someone with depression, 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:48.120 make sure they aren't surrounded by assholes. Right. Um. I'm 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.400 not saying, by the way, Lizzie, that your family is that, 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.840 but I am saying that I think that maybe you 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.240 you didn't learn a lot about what it means to 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.719 validate your own feelings, right you're shaking your head now, 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:03.880 and and then what it means to talk about that 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:07.240 in a way where you're not accusing your family of anything, 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:11.000 but you're you're holding your ground, And I think that's 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.760 the first place to start with us. Yeah, I think 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:18.040 you're exactly right with that, and that's right struggle. It 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:21.320 feels like they don't hear me, hear what I'm trying 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.880 to say? What are you trying to say? What would 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:27.559 you like to say to them? Sometimes it's just basic things, 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.079 like I said, when I feel like my views are 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:33.200 different than there's, it's not okay for them to say 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:36.440 some things like oh, why is there a black Annie? 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.680 Or when I am upset and I expressed a feeling, well, 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.960 yeah I feel sad about that. Oh, well, you're making excuses. 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:49.319 I'm like, what, how is that an excuse? I'm sharing 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:53.240 a feeling with you all, and that's an excuse for something. 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:57.120 It just it's really hard. Yeah, I see this in 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.600 couples a lot to I see between parents and children, 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:01.920 but I all so see it in couples where people 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:05.679 try to argue with somebody else's feeling, like, oh, why 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:07.920 would you feel sad about that? Or don't feel sad 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.600 about that? Like, you can't argue with the way someone feels. 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:15.200 You might not agree with some content around that, but 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.079 you can't argue with the fact that they feel the 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.520 way they feel, because that's just nobody can own that 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:24.400 except you. I think about parents who say to their 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:26.840 kids are really uncomfortable with feelings, and their kid comes 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.120 to them and says like, I'm really sad about what 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:31.240 happened in school today, and the parents like, don't be sad. 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:33.679 Let's go get some yogurt, you know, let's go get 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.640 frozen yogurt, let's go to Disneyland, or you know, I'm 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.360 really scared about this, and they're like, really, there's nothing 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.640 to be afraid of. So they kind of try to 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.880 talk you out of your feeling because they are uncomfortable 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.160 with your feeling, and then the kids learns, oh, maybe 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.599 it's not okay to feel sad or angry or anxious 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:55.920 or whatever you happen to be feeling, right, So it 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:58.679 sounds like you are afraid that if you were to 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.920 say to them now, actually I do feel sad about this, 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:05.160 that they would do what they just kind of brushed 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.440 me off. Lizzie the politically correct one, Oh, we can't 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.560 say that around her because she's sensitive and that will 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:15.440 upset her or that will make her angry. And it's 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:19.320 just like, I the problem here, right, You're not the problem, 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.840 but the problem is that you feel like they get 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.440 to make the rules and you have to follow them, 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:28.880 as if you're still a child, but you're allowed to 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.200 say whatever you want to say, and you're also allowed 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.080 you get to choose whatever response you want to choose. 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.400 So just because they label you something doesn't mean you 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:38.960 have to accept it. It's like I always say this, 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.560 like when parents send guilt to you know, I always say, like, 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:43.440 just because she sends guilt doesn't mean you have to 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.040 sign for the package, doesn't mean you have to accept delivery. 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:48.840 So just because they're sending you this message doesn't mean 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:50.640 you have to accept the message. You don't have to 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.880 sign for the package. So you can say whatever you 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:56.040 want to say, and you don't have to argue with 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:58.040 them or try to convince them of something. But you 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:00.760 can just tell them this is how I feel about it, 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.400 and they can call you whatever they want. We just 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.880 had on on my podcast, have this podcast called Dear Therapist, 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.480 and this this woman was saying she talked to her brother, 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.120 and her brother said to her, you know everything you're 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.680 you're always so sensitive, you're so emotional, You're you know, 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.080 everything is so emotional with you. And she said, yeah, 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:21.000 I have emotions. That's my superpower. And it stopped her 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.400 brother right, because all of a sudden. It was like 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:25.880 it was a reframe of how they think about her. 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:29.640 Brother might not change his mind on that conversation, but 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.240 it's a different way. Instead of saying no, I'm not sensitive, 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.840 it's own it, say I am sensitive. I like that 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:40.560 about myself. I feel things. I'm not racist, right, um, 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.040 And you might use different words for that, but to say, like, 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.800 you know, I feel differently about this, I think about 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:50.600 this differently. Yeah, I'm so scared of rocking the boat, 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:54.800 of messing with the status quo. I'm so bad at confrontation. 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.680 I'm so bad at standing up for myself, and I 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.080 wish I were better at it, and I wish I 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.480 were better at just saying yeah, being sensitive and having 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:07.480 emotions is my superpower, because I think it is, but 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.520 it feels like it gets shut down a lot. How 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.200 do they feel about your career choice to be a 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:17.560 clinical psychologist? Um, I mean they're there's really they're proud 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:20.800 of me for what I'm doing and getting my doctorate, 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.520 and they've been really supportive. But then sometimes they're like, oh, 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.880 well the doctor over here. Oh if you guys aren't 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:29.880 ever going to take me seriously, how am I supposed 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.680 to take myself seriously. You need to take yourself seriously 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:37.520 and then other people will take you seriously and or 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:39.600 may or may not, But the point doesn't really matter. 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.840 The point is you need to start taking yourself seriously. Yeah. 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.400 And even my mom, she came to visit and she 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.360 saw something that was gifted to me by a supervisor 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.520 that said, oh, you did X, Y, and Z so well. 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:53.760 And my mom was like, oh, you can do that. 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:56.040 And I was like, yeah, I believe it or not. 0:16:56.280 --> 0:17:00.120 I learned some stuff these last few years. It's like 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:04.800 everyone's surprised. Yeah, and again it's that reframe because I'm sensitive, 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.880 I function really well in the world. Yeah, I think 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:09.680 you need to stand in your power a little bit 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:11.639 more than you are. You know, give yourself a lot 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:13.520 of credit. You went out there and got that doctorate, 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.080 and just because your family doesn't understand what that means 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.200 and what that entails, you have every right to explain 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.280 it to them, to demonstrate, to show them how much 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.480 knowledge that you've gleaned, that you're part of the future, 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.560 not the past in terms of their old school ideas 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:32.280 and you know, racial judgments and whatever. You know, you 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.600 don't have to defend yourself you can talk about the 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.240 way you feel in a way that isn't defensive. You 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:40.240 can say, yeah, I know you guys feel that way, 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:42.879 but that's that's old school thinking. I've been introduced to 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.760 a new way of thinking. You know, I'm a newer generation. 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.080 This is what I believe, this is what I know 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:50.600 to be true. These are the things that I've learned 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:54.840 and own it instead of looking at them for your value. 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:57.400 That's not where you're going to get your value. Your 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:00.200 value comes from within you. You went out in did 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.280 these things. Your family didn't go and get their doctorate 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:04.639 for you. You did that, and now you get to 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:07.719 talk about it because it's another experience that you've added 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.920 to your life, you know, to your shelf of experience 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.560 in life. You know what I'm saying, Like, you get 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.959 to talk about all of your experiences because it's not 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:20.359 anything that they've had. So yeah, I understand that people 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:23.359 have problems with confrontation, but family gets very stuck in 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.560 patterns of behavior, and who better to change that pattern 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.639 of behavior than somebody who just got their doctorate in 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.560 one of the social sciences. It's so important what you're 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:35.800 doing and the exploration that you've done so you have 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:37.840 everything to be proud of. And I think if you 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:41.480 just exercise that muscle a little bit more, especially in 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.359 your family dynamic, you'll be surprised the things that come 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:45.720 out of your mouth in the way that you feel 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:49.439 about yourself. Families try to create a system that that 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:53.720 stays in homeostasis, meaning like they don't want any one 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:56.160 piece to change, right, So it's kind of like, oh, 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:59.320 if one person changes and doesn't, let's say it at you. 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.520 There's a difference between sensitivity and reactivity. So it sounds like, 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.880 right now, you're very reactive. So and that's different from 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:08.439 the power that you have of being sensitive. And so 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:12.159 if you are less reactive with them, if you try 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.840 less to gain their approval, if you try less to 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.800 kind of convince them of something, but you still stand 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:20.720 in your own place, that's going to throw them off. 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:22.840 It's kind of like people do a dance with each other, 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:24.879 and if one person changes their dance steps, then the 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:26.600 other person is either going to fall on the dance 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:28.320 floor or they're going to have to adjust their dance 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.920 steps too. That's what's gonna happen with your family when 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.560 you react differently to them. And so you're not so 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:36.080 much the child trying to get their approval, but you're 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:39.119 the adult almost their teacher, right but not. You're not 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:42.080 teaching them in an overt way. You're just saying, I 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:44.240