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Speaker 1: Hi, Hi Catherine, and how are you, hi, Chelsea. I'm great.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of freezing today. I'm kind of freezing saying

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Speaker 1: it's a perfect time for me to go to Whistler.

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Speaker 1: I'm going. No, I can stop me. I can't fucking

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Speaker 1: wait to go skiing. Oh my gosh, how long do

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Speaker 1: you stay up there? Well, this year is going to

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Speaker 1: be a little different because I'm gonna come back to

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Speaker 1: do some more podcasts and then I have some stand

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Speaker 1: up dates up there. But all my Canadian dates are

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Speaker 1: January through March, and then I have some Seattle in

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Speaker 1: between February three and second i have Seattle in Portland,

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Speaker 1: and but I'm going to stay up there for the

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Speaker 1: majority of the winter time, and Joe Coy will be

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Speaker 1: introduced to Whistler. I was gonna ask, will you go

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Speaker 1: for the whole time or while he's on tour still too,

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Speaker 1: so he will use that as his home base. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I love that. This is great. Yeah, I can't wait

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Speaker 1: for all my friends to come visit me up there

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Speaker 1: now that we're not well, hopefully down through the thick

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Speaker 1: of it. But who knows what the hell is on

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Speaker 1: the horizon? Yeah, it was. It was actually like terrifying.

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Speaker 1: In one of the ads that we recorded to day

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Speaker 1: where they said, well, it's that time of the year.

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Speaker 1: Whether those sniffles are you know, sniffles are COVID nineteen,

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, so it is just that time

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Speaker 1: of the year now. Somebody said to me COVID will

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Speaker 1: go about be going on for the next three to

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Speaker 1: five years, and I was like, that sounds about right. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: I have some brighter news for you. A follow up

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Speaker 1: from t who called in last season. She was on

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Speaker 1: our episode Open to Happy Endings and she had had

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Speaker 1: some sexual trauma and was dealing with that while she

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Speaker 1: was with her current partner and having some some issues

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Speaker 1: related to that. So we got ahold of her afterward

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Speaker 1: and I gave her a recommendation for a therapist to

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Speaker 1: see and this is what she said, Hi, Catherine, I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to thank you again for your help in

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Speaker 1: finding a therapist. I contacted Healthy Relationships b C and

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Speaker 1: have found a therapist I connected with who's accommodating to

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Speaker 1: my limited budget as a student. Today I had my

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Speaker 1: first session of E. M. D R Therapy and it

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Speaker 1: went really well and I'm so optimistic about the healing

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Speaker 1: that is going to come from this. I can't believe

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Speaker 1: this all came about because I happened to see Chelsea's

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Speaker 1: Instagram story asking for questions and missions. Anyway, I wanted

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Speaker 1: you and Chelsea to know how grateful I am for

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to share my struggle and your help and

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Speaker 1: encouragement and finding supports to start healing. Thanks again, t Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's a great update. Thank you. I was doing that.

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Speaker 1: I was so happy to get that email from her.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, because it is, it's sort of it's one

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Speaker 1: step at a time. You take those baby steps, you

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Speaker 1: get started, and I think e M d R will

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Speaker 1: be a really have you tried that I have? And

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Speaker 1: you know who was just talking about that publicly with

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Speaker 1: Sandy Bullock on the Red Table Talk. She was talking

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Speaker 1: about e M d R. She had an intruder into

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Speaker 1: her like come into her house and she had PTSD

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Speaker 1: from that and that she did a lot of a

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Speaker 1: M d R and she said it was so healing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think especially for any sort of physical trauma like

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Speaker 1: that where it's someone invading your space or you know,

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Speaker 1: as t had sexual trauma, I think it's so so helpful.

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Speaker 1: So that actually leads us right into our guest today.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, it was also a therapist. Yeah, we have

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Speaker 1: a real therapist. You guys, don't be jealous if you're

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Speaker 1: not on this episode. Our guest today Lori Gottlieb, who

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Speaker 1: is a psychotherapist and a New York Times bestselling author

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Speaker 1: of Maybe You Should Talk to Someone. That's the title

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Speaker 1: of the book that I read, and it's sold over

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Speaker 1: a million copies and it's currently being adapted as a

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Speaker 1: television series and there's also a new workbook version of this.

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Speaker 1: She is also the co host of the very popular

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Speaker 1: Dear Therapist podcast. She writes a weekly column in advice

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Speaker 1: column for The Atlantic called Deer Therapist, and her Ted

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Speaker 1: Talk was one of the top ten most watched of

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Speaker 1: the year. So please welcome Laurie Gottlieb. Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello,

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Speaker 1: how are you. I'm well? How are you? I'm well?

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Speaker 1: Thank you. This is my co host, Catherine. Hello. Hi there, Hi,

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Speaker 1: it's very nice to speak with you. First of all,

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Speaker 1: congratulations on all of your success. Well, thank you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's nice, right, nice to be successful, it is. I

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Speaker 1: can't I can't argue with that, especially when you are

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Speaker 1: helping people while you're achieving that success, I would imagine

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Speaker 1: that is an even greater victory. I came up across

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Speaker 1: your book right after I think my book came out

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Speaker 1: shortly before your book, and then I was reading your book,

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Speaker 1: and then everyone was reading your book, and there were

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Speaker 1: so many similarities from my therapy experience with my psychologist

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Speaker 1: that I was able to relate to in your book

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Speaker 1: and your book, that book, Maybe You Should talk To

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Speaker 1: Someone is a collection of many couples and people that

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Speaker 1: you worked with, right, Yeah, So basically in the book,

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Speaker 1: I follow the lives of four of my patients as

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Speaker 1: they go through various struggles, and then, uh, there's a

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Speaker 1: fifth patient in the book, and the fifth patient is

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Speaker 1: me as I go to my own therapist because I'm

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Speaker 1: going through an unexpected breakup, and so you see kind

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Speaker 1: of therapy with me as the therapist and me as

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Speaker 1: the patient. And it was very insightful to see that

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Speaker 1: because I guess as a therapist, I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people always forget we assume that therapists have all

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Speaker 1: the answers. You know, that you guys are there to

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Speaker 1: help us kind of navigate everything, and I think people

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Speaker 1: can sometimes forget that you're a human being. As well

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Speaker 1: and need your own guidance. Yeah. I mean I say

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of the book that my most significant

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Speaker 1: credential is that I'm a card carrying member of the

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Speaker 1: human race. That I think, you know, I know what

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Speaker 1: it's like to be a person in the world. And

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Speaker 1: I think that there's this idea that when you go

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Speaker 1: to a therapist, that they're like these perfectly put together people.

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Speaker 1: And I think the other trope that people have of

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Speaker 1: therapist is that they're like the hot mess, you know,

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Speaker 1: like the person who's like like an in treatment, you know,

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Speaker 1: where they're like breaking boundaries and having sex with their patients.

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Speaker 1: And it's not like that. It just we are exactly

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Speaker 1: like you, except that we're trained to help you deal

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Speaker 1: with your struggles, and then we go to people who

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Speaker 1: are trained to help us deal with our struggles. And

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Speaker 1: do you find yourself as a professional, Do you find

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Speaker 1: yourself or another outlet that you can kind of get

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Speaker 1: that feedback from. Do you have a community of other

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Speaker 1: therapists that you work with or meet with or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, so, and maybe you should talk to someone.

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Speaker 1: You get to see something that a lot of people

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Speaker 1: don't realize, but most therapists have consultation groups. So every

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Speaker 1: week we meet with a group of our colleagues and

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Speaker 1: we go over our cases and so we talk about,

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Speaker 1: you know, where we're stuck, or we want advice, or

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Speaker 1: we want feedback. So it's not just us alone in

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Speaker 1: a room with somebody. But if we really want, you know,

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Speaker 1: to run by somebody else, we we have that option.

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Speaker 1: And I think when it comes to our personal lives,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think that I really think that therapy

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Speaker 1: can be so valuable for people. And I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: that because I'm a therapist. I'm saying that as a patient,

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Speaker 1: because I feel like, you know, I talked in the

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Speaker 1: book about the difference between idiot compassion and wise compassion.

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Speaker 1: So we go to our friends with a problem and

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Speaker 1: we're like, listen to what my partner did, or my

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Speaker 1: boss did or my sister did, and we're like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're wrong, You're right. You go girl, you know, because

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Speaker 1: we think we're supporting them, but really, you know, when

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Speaker 1: you listen to your friends over time, it's almost like

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Speaker 1: you'll hear that maybe it's with a different person, or

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Speaker 1: maybe it's even with the same person that they're sort

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Speaker 1: of describing the same thing over and over, and the

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Speaker 1: common denominator is them. It's kind of like if a

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Speaker 1: fight breaks out in every bar you're going to, maybe

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Speaker 1: it's you, but we do not say that to our friends.

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Speaker 1: And so when you go to therapy, instead of getting

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Speaker 1: idiot compassion, you get wise compassion where we hold up

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Speaker 1: a mirror to you and we help you to see

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Speaker 1: something about yourself that maybe you haven't been willing or

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Speaker 1: able to see. And the word compassion is in there

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Speaker 1: because it's done in a very compassionate way. But it's

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Speaker 1: really important for us to see our own role in

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Speaker 1: our own lives, and you know what we might be

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Speaker 1: doing that is getting in our way. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: that was very clear to see with one of your patients,

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Speaker 1: who I would describe as an asshole upon reading it.

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Speaker 1: Obviously you use more careful language because you are a

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Speaker 1: compassionate therapist, but you know this guy who was so

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Speaker 1: clearly stuck in his own bullshit and his own narrative

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Speaker 1: and just repeating the rep Titian of his of his

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Speaker 1: behavior basically and not being able to see outside of yourself.

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Speaker 1: And I think that is the gift of self awareness

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Speaker 1: is pretty much the one tangible. Not the one tangible,

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Speaker 1: but the most prominent tangible thing that I walked away

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Speaker 1: from therapy with is the gift of self awareness. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's right, And I think when you talk about him

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Speaker 1: being an asshole, I think, you know, he was incredibly

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Speaker 1: insulting and unlikable at the beginning of the book, but

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Speaker 1: he becomes the person that I think most people like

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Speaker 1: the most by the end of the book because once

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Speaker 1: you see why he's acting that way, and I think sometimes,

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Speaker 1: you know, we don't take the time to figure out, well,

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Speaker 1: why is someone acting that way because they're speaking with

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Speaker 1: their behaviors if they don't have the words, or something

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Speaker 1: is so unspeakable, as there was something in his life

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Speaker 1: without spoiling it, you know, if something is so unspeakable,

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Speaker 1: we speak with our behavior. It comes out in other ways.

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Speaker 1: So once he started talking about it, he started to

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Speaker 1: change his behavior and and he becomes like incredibly lovable

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Speaker 1: and somebody that that I think people are drawn toward. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I recognize a lot of myself and him too. That's

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Speaker 1: why I feel so free to be able to call

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Speaker 1: him an asshole, because that's what I was before I

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Speaker 1: went to therapy. So this podcast. Well, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: know you're good at giving advice obviously, so we're very

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Speaker 1: excited to have a professional on the podcast because we

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Speaker 1: are not. But I like to give advice anyway. We

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Speaker 1: have people call in, you know, with life problems, we're

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Speaker 1: going to give them just some feedback. So we're so

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Speaker 1: happy to have you here today, Laurie, Thank you great, great,

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Speaker 1: excited to do this. Yeah, well, before we get to

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Speaker 1: all the fun stuff, we'll take a quick break. Okay,

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Speaker 1: sounds good. We'll be right back. Our first call comes

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Speaker 1: from Lizzie. She is a clinical psychologist. She says, Dear Chelsea,

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Speaker 1: I'm having a hard time with my family. I've always

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Speaker 1: felt a little different, and I've been labeled the emotional one.

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Speaker 1: I've been a crier since I was a kid, and

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Speaker 1: my mom could never handle it. Well, i just completed

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Speaker 1: my doctorate in psychology, and I've also been really trying

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Speaker 1: to put the work in for myself. I feel the

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Speaker 1: older I get and the more I learn, the more

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Speaker 1: I see my family's toxic traits, their tendency toward judgment

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Speaker 1: and criticism, their old school ideas. For example, you're turning

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Speaker 1: thirty soon, when are you going to get married and

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Speaker 1: start having kids. I feel so frustrated because I wish

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Speaker 1: they could see how damaging some of the things they

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Speaker 1: say and do can be. But they're my family and

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Speaker 1: I love them, and I'm just not sure I like

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Speaker 1: them right now. I know I'm biased because I'm a

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Speaker 1: new psychologist, but I'm also not trying to therapyze them.

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Speaker 1: How do I reconcile this, How do I manage healthy

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Speaker 1: relationships with people who are unwilling to look inward on themselves?

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Speaker 1: And how do I communicate these things without sounding like

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Speaker 1: the know it all family member who just got their

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Speaker 1: doctorate in psychology. Lizzy, Hi, Lizzie, Hi, Lizzie. Well, so

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Speaker 1: I'll just jump in if that's okay. So I was thinking,

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Speaker 1: you know, when a lot of people grow up and say,

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Speaker 1: my family said I was too sensitive, or my family

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Speaker 1: said that I overreacted to things, or my family said

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Speaker 1: I was just I couldn't just let things go, and

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Speaker 1: I was very differ cult. Right, So we talk about

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Speaker 1: the identified patient in the family, and they identified patient

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Speaker 1: is the person who kind of holds all the symptoms

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Speaker 1: for the family that nobody is talking about, and that

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Speaker 1: person becomes like the canary in the coal mind. That

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Speaker 1: person becomes first says, wait a minute, there's there's a

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Speaker 1: problem here, right, So it's not that the other people

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Speaker 1: in the family are bad people. It's that they never

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Speaker 1: learned how to talk about emotions. They were they're very

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable with emotions. So if your child starts having these

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Speaker 1: normal human emotions and you're uncomfortable around them, you might

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Speaker 1: say to your child, Oh, don't be so sensitive, Oh

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Speaker 1: just let it go, right. And then sometimes these people

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Speaker 1: grow up to become adults who are very depressed, and

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Speaker 1: we have this saying, you know, before diagnosing someone with depression,

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Speaker 1: make sure they aren't surrounded by assholes. Right. Um. I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying, by the way, Lizzie, that your family is that,

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Speaker 1: but I am saying that I think that maybe you

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Speaker 1: you didn't learn a lot about what it means to

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Speaker 1: validate your own feelings, right you're shaking your head now,

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Speaker 1: and and then what it means to talk about that

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Speaker 1: in a way where you're not accusing your family of anything,

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Speaker 1: but you're you're holding your ground, And I think that's

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Speaker 1: the first place to start with us. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: you're exactly right with that, and that's right struggle. It

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Speaker 1: feels like they don't hear me, hear what I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to say? What are you trying to say? What would

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Speaker 1: you like to say to them? Sometimes it's just basic things,

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Speaker 1: like I said, when I feel like my views are

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Speaker 1: different than there's, it's not okay for them to say

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Speaker 1: some things like oh, why is there a black Annie?

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Speaker 1: Or when I am upset and I expressed a feeling, well,

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Speaker 1: yeah I feel sad about that. Oh, well, you're making excuses.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, what, how is that an excuse? I'm sharing

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Speaker 1: a feeling with you all, and that's an excuse for something.

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Speaker 1: It just it's really hard. Yeah, I see this in

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Speaker 1: couples a lot to I see between parents and children,

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Speaker 1: but I all so see it in couples where people

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Speaker 1: try to argue with somebody else's feeling, like, oh, why

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Speaker 1: would you feel sad about that? Or don't feel sad

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Speaker 1: about that? Like, you can't argue with the way someone feels.

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Speaker 1: You might not agree with some content around that, but

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Speaker 1: you can't argue with the fact that they feel the

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Speaker 1: way they feel, because that's just nobody can own that

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Speaker 1: except you. I think about parents who say to their

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Speaker 1: kids are really uncomfortable with feelings, and their kid comes

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Speaker 1: to them and says like, I'm really sad about what

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Speaker 1: happened in school today, and the parents like, don't be sad.

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Speaker 1: Let's go get some yogurt, you know, let's go get

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Speaker 1: frozen yogurt, let's go to Disneyland, or you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: really scared about this, and they're like, really, there's nothing

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Speaker 1: to be afraid of. So they kind of try to

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Speaker 1: talk you out of your feeling because they are uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: with your feeling, and then the kids learns, oh, maybe

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Speaker 1: it's not okay to feel sad or angry or anxious

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Speaker 1: or whatever you happen to be feeling, right, So it

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Speaker 1: sounds like you are afraid that if you were to

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Speaker 1: say to them now, actually I do feel sad about this,

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Speaker 1: that they would do what they just kind of brushed

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Speaker 1: me off. Lizzie the politically correct one, Oh, we can't

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Speaker 1: say that around her because she's sensitive and that will

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Speaker 1: upset her or that will make her angry. And it's

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Speaker 1: just like, I the problem here, right, You're not the problem,

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Speaker 1: but the problem is that you feel like they get

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Speaker 1: to make the rules and you have to follow them,

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Speaker 1: as if you're still a child, but you're allowed to

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Speaker 1: say whatever you want to say, and you're also allowed

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Speaker 1: you get to choose whatever response you want to choose.

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Speaker 1: So just because they label you something doesn't mean you

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Speaker 1: have to accept it. It's like I always say this,

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Speaker 1: like when parents send guilt to you know, I always say, like,

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Speaker 1: just because she sends guilt doesn't mean you have to

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Speaker 1: sign for the package, doesn't mean you have to accept delivery.

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Speaker 1: So just because they're sending you this message doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: you have to accept the message. You don't have to

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Speaker 1: sign for the package. So you can say whatever you

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Speaker 1: want to say, and you don't have to argue with

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Speaker 1: them or try to convince them of something. But you

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Speaker 1: can just tell them this is how I feel about it,

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Speaker 1: and they can call you whatever they want. We just

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Speaker 1: had on on my podcast, have this podcast called Dear Therapist,

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Speaker 1: and this this woman was saying she talked to her brother,

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Speaker 1: and her brother said to her, you know everything you're

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Speaker 1: you're always so sensitive, you're so emotional, You're you know,

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Speaker 1: everything is so emotional with you. And she said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have emotions. That's my superpower. And it stopped her

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Speaker 1: brother right, because all of a sudden. It was like

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Speaker 1: it was a reframe of how they think about her.

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Speaker 1: Brother might not change his mind on that conversation, but

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Speaker 1: it's a different way. Instead of saying no, I'm not sensitive,

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Speaker 1: it's own it, say I am sensitive. I like that

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Speaker 1: about myself. I feel things. I'm not racist, right, um,

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Speaker 1: And you might use different words for that, but to say, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I feel differently about this, I think about

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Speaker 1: this differently. Yeah, I'm so scared of rocking the boat,

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Speaker 1: of messing with the status quo. I'm so bad at confrontation.

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Speaker 1: I'm so bad at standing up for myself, and I

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Speaker 1: wish I were better at it, and I wish I

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Speaker 1: were better at just saying yeah, being sensitive and having

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Speaker 1: emotions is my superpower, because I think it is, but

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Speaker 1: it feels like it gets shut down a lot. How

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Speaker 1: do they feel about your career choice to be a

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Speaker 1: clinical psychologist? Um, I mean they're there's really they're proud

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Speaker 1: of me for what I'm doing and getting my doctorate,

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Speaker 1: and they've been really supportive. But then sometimes they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: well the doctor over here. Oh if you guys aren't

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Speaker 1: ever going to take me seriously, how am I supposed

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Speaker 1: to take myself seriously. You need to take yourself seriously

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Speaker 1: and then other people will take you seriously and or

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Speaker 1: may or may not, But the point doesn't really matter.

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Speaker 1: The point is you need to start taking yourself seriously. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And even my mom, she came to visit and she

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Speaker 1: saw something that was gifted to me by a supervisor

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Speaker 1: that said, oh, you did X, Y, and Z so well.

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Speaker 1: And my mom was like, oh, you can do that.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, I believe it or not.

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Speaker 1: I learned some stuff these last few years. It's like

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Speaker 1: everyone's surprised. Yeah, and again it's that reframe because I'm sensitive,

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Speaker 1: I function really well in the world. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: you need to stand in your power a little bit

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Speaker 1: more than you are. You know, give yourself a lot

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Speaker 1: of credit. You went out there and got that doctorate,

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Speaker 1: and just because your family doesn't understand what that means

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Speaker 1: and what that entails, you have every right to explain

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Speaker 1: it to them, to demonstrate, to show them how much

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Speaker 1: knowledge that you've gleaned, that you're part of the future,

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Speaker 1: not the past in terms of their old school ideas

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Speaker 1: and you know, racial judgments and whatever. You know, you

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Speaker 1: don't have to defend yourself you can talk about the

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Speaker 1: way you feel in a way that isn't defensive. You

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Speaker 1: can say, yeah, I know you guys feel that way,

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Speaker 1: but that's that's old school thinking. I've been introduced to

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Speaker 1: a new way of thinking. You know, I'm a newer generation.

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Speaker 1: This is what I believe, this is what I know

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Speaker 1: to be true. These are the things that I've learned

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Speaker 1: and own it instead of looking at them for your value.

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Speaker 1: That's not where you're going to get your value. Your

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Speaker 1: value comes from within you. You went out in did

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Speaker 1: these things. Your family didn't go and get their doctorate

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Speaker 1: for you. You did that, and now you get to

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Speaker 1: talk about it because it's another experience that you've added

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Speaker 1: to your life, you know, to your shelf of experience

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Speaker 1: in life. You know what I'm saying, Like, you get

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Speaker 1: to talk about all of your experiences because it's not

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Speaker 1: anything that they've had. So yeah, I understand that people

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Speaker 1: have problems with confrontation, but family gets very stuck in

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Speaker 1: patterns of behavior, and who better to change that pattern

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Speaker 1: of behavior than somebody who just got their doctorate in

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Speaker 1: one of the social sciences. It's so important what you're

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Speaker 1: doing and the exploration that you've done so you have

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Speaker 1: everything to be proud of. And I think if you

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Speaker 1: just exercise that muscle a little bit more, especially in

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Speaker 1: your family dynamic, you'll be surprised the things that come

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Speaker 1: out of your mouth in the way that you feel

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Speaker 1: about yourself. Families try to create a system that that

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Speaker 1: stays in homeostasis, meaning like they don't want any one

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Speaker 1: piece to change, right, So it's kind of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: if one person changes and doesn't, let's say it at you.

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Speaker 1: There's a difference between sensitivity and reactivity. So it sounds like,

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Speaker 1: right now, you're very reactive. So and that's different from

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Speaker 1: the power that you have of being sensitive. And so

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Speaker 1: if you are less reactive with them, if you try

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Speaker 1: less to gain their approval, if you try less to

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Speaker 1: kind of convince them of something, but you still stand

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Speaker 1: in your own place, that's going to throw them off.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like people do a dance with each other,

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Speaker 1: and if one person changes their dance steps, then the

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Speaker 1: other person is either going to fall on the dance

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Speaker 1: floor or they're going to have to adjust their dance

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Speaker 1: steps too. That's what's gonna happen with your family when

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Speaker 1: you react differently to them. And so you're not so

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Speaker 1: much the child trying to get their approval, but you're

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Speaker 1: the adult almost their teacher, right but not. You're not

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Speaker 1: teaching them in an overt way. You're just saying, I

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Speaker 1: know who I am, this is what I believe, and

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Speaker 1: you're going to stop reacting to them in that way

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Speaker 1: of like, please don't call me that, Please don't tell

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Speaker 1: me that that's not true. Right, Just you know how

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Speaker 1: you feel, you know what you believe, and you can

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Speaker 1: say it and not be reactive if they have a

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Speaker 1: different way of thinking about it. Yeah, thank you. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to communicate sometimes with people when they feel like

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Speaker 1: when it feels like they don't want to listen, trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out when is the right time to say

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Speaker 1: something or when is the right time too. It's not

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Speaker 1: that they don't want to hear it's that they're afraid

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Speaker 1: to hear it, because you, Lizzie, are a reminder that

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Speaker 1: emotions exist, and they are terrified of emotions. They are

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Speaker 1: terrified of the kind of things that you think about

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Speaker 1: that that you feel. They feel them too, but they

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Speaker 1: find other ways to kind of push them out, They

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Speaker 1: numb them out, right, And so for you to come

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Speaker 1: forward with these feelings and they have to look at

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Speaker 1: feelings right away, and that triggers feelings in them and

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Speaker 1: then they get terrified. So it's not personal to you,

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Speaker 1: it's that you are just a symbol of emotions to them,

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Speaker 1: and they get very afraid of emotions, yes, very afraid

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Speaker 1: of crying in tears and feeling yeah. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: a perfect example of them bringing up the Black Annie.

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Speaker 1: Like a perfect response would be, like, I think it's

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Speaker 1: a great don't what's your issue with having a black

428
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 1: woman have the opportunity to star in this classic film

429
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,199
Speaker 1: that everybody knows about. Why why would you have a

430
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,359
Speaker 1: problem with that? Or I think it's wonderful, Like I

431
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,360
Speaker 1: think it's so wonderful that a black woman has an opportunity,

432
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 1: that this isn't just now a white story, that we're

433
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 1: opening this up so that everybody can participate in this

434
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,479
Speaker 1: and that that this this issue, and that the crux

435
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 1: of that movie is something that every little girl has seen.

436
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 1: Why not have that be somebody that a small black

437
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 1: girl can relate to more than as a white person

438
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,199
Speaker 1: starring in it. You know, there's so many avenues to

439
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 1: do it without the defensiveness, without the just to say,

440
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: I'm proud of that. I'm proud that Annie has a

441
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,639
Speaker 1: black cast now and that there's a black Annie like

442
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 1: that means to me progress is being made and black

443
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 1: people are being representative in a more fair way. Yeah,

444
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 1: I think I need to get better at taking myself

445
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 1: more seriously so they take me more seriously and so

446
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,160
Speaker 1: I can convey those things. It sounds like you kind

447
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,479
Speaker 1: of lose yourself around them. Yeah, you know, it's almost

448
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 1: like I think sometimes we have these stories that we

449
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 1: tell ourselves about ourselves that were our roles in the family.

450
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 1: And you just said what your role was, like the

451
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 1: silly little girl, right, And it's almost like wearing clothes

452
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,239
Speaker 1: that don't fit anymore, Like you're still walking around in

453
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: those childhood clothes, but they don't fit anymore. They don't

454
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 1: fit who you are. They didn't fit who you are then,

455
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 1: but you didn't know how to articulate that. That's why

456
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 1: your mother said, oh, really you do all those things

457
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: when she saw that, because I think I think that

458
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: it's hard because you haven't accepted that you are not

459
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: that role that was assigned to you in the family,

460
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,360
Speaker 1: and so it's really important for you to get out

461
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: of that role and to take on a new role,

462
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: not just in your family, but in your life. That

463
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: role is going to follow you in relationships, in your

464
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 1: professional world, is going to follow you everywhere unless you

465
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: start redefining your role. Yes, exactly, it's only with my family,

466
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: I worry. I don't really care what other people think.

467
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,360
Speaker 1: It's just I don't know why it's so hard with family. Well,

468
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 1: your family's done a number on you. You know, your

469
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 1: family dynamic has probably just had an impact on you,

470
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: And obviously it has, because you know you don't. I

471
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:08,479
Speaker 1: was just thinking while you were talking, do I ever

472
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable bringing anything up to my family? And and

473
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 1: I'm the emotional one in my family for sure, and

474
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: I don't when I talk they listen because I've never

475
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: ever regarded their opinion as more important than my own.

476
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 1: So maybe if you can think about it that way,

477
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: you know you you are as important as you think

478
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: you are, and you are valid and your feelings should

479
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 1: be validated. So I think as soon as you just

480
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: start exercising that muscle a little bit more, you're going

481
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 1: to realize how much more easily it will come to you. Yes, yeah,

482
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: I need to get better at practicing that well, you will.

483
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: You will start and you will just make a little step,

484
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: but baby step in the right direction. That's usually all

485
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 1: it takes is one step, and then there's a domino effect,

486
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: you know, of a new habit and you know, bodily,

487
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: something I do when I'm on stage performing or when

488
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 1: I'm nervous, or I just kind of really try to

489
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: try to center myself, Like if that kind of interaction

490
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 1: with your family makes you nervous and you're going to

491
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 1: say something to stand up for what you believe in,

492
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: or just try to get your body like think about

493
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: tightening your your abs, your muscles and just having a

494
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: center of gravity so that you're solid and that you're

495
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: on solid footing, and just think about I'm strong, I'm okay,

496
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: I'm allowed to say how I feel. I'm allowed to

497
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: say these things without getting flustered or getting too scared.

498
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: You know, stand in your own body and be aware

499
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 1: of your body, and just think about the fact that

500
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: you've walked a long way to get where you are,

501
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 1: and you did the work and you deserve an opinion.

502
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: There are a lot of voices in your head that

503
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: aren't yours, but we all have this right and I

504
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: think that's why a lot of us are so unkind

505
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 1: to ourselves, and we don't even realize it. You know,

506
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: a lot of times I'll say to people, like, you know,

507
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,479
Speaker 1: who's the person that you talked to most in the

508
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: course of your life. And they might say, it's my

509
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: mother or my partner, or my sister or my best friend.

510
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: But actually the person that we talked to most in

511
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: the course of our lives is ourselves. And what we

512
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 1: say to ourselves isn't always kind or true or useful.

513
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: And so I had this therapy client and I said

514
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: to her, listen, I want you to go home, and

515
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: I want you to write down everything you say to

516
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: yourself over the course of a week and come back

517
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: and let's talk about it. And she came back and

518
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: she started crying, and she said, I am such a

519
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: bullied to myself. I had no idea. You know, that

520
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 1: voice that was her parents voice, like you have your

521
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 1: parents voices and your your mom's voice in your head

522
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: or family's voice. And there were things like, you know,

523
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: she was typing an email and she made a typo

524
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: and she said to herself, you're so stupid, right, that's

525
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: not her voice. That was someone else's voice. She passed

526
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 1: herself for reflection in the mirror, and she said, oh,

527
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: you look terrible today, not her voice. So I think

528
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: it might be a really good exercise for you to

529
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: really listen for that voice and write down what that

530
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: voice is saying, and then to distinguish is that my

531
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: voice or is that somebody else's voice? Because I think

532
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 1: you know what your voice is, but I think you

533
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: start to it gets very very quiet around all the

534
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: noise of the other voices that are rattling around in

535
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: your head, and I think you really need to start

536
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: writing some of this down to really become more aware

537
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah. It's like, I'm so worried about upsetting

538
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: everybody if I express what I want or think or

539
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: feel whatever it might be. But that's not fair to

540
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 1: me anymore for ever. No, And what you're really doing

541
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: is instead of you know, you're so worried about disappointing them,

542
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: but you're really disappointing yourself. And at the end of

543
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: the day, I think that's really dangerous. Yeah, so that's

544
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 1: why I wrote it. Yeah, Well, thanks for calling in, Lizzie. Yeah, Lizzie,

545
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: did you feel like you've got some good advice that

546
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: you can work off of. Yeah, I'm thank you for

547
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: taking my call. It's really been awesome and I can't

548
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 1: believe I got to talk to you all. And Laura

549
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: Golli by the universe is so weird. I was buying

550
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: a gift for somebody at the book store the other

551
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: day and your book was like facing out, Maybe you

552
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: should talk to something, And I looked at the title

553
00:26:55,359 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: and I thought, yeah, I really need to and well

554
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: do you Well, I hope that this is helpful for you,

555
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: at least it gives you a start. Yeah, thank you, guys.

556
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 1: I appreciate you taking the time today. Good and Leslie

557
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 1: follow up with us. Let us know how it works

558
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: out with your family and if anything interesting happens, Oh yeah,

559
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure, take care. I yeah. I mean, how do

560
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: you get out of old family dynamics? I mean, what

561
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: do you do, Laurie when you have a family like that,

562
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: or like any family that is stuck in a like

563
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: how do you change the dynamic? Yeah? I think it's

564
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 1: less about changing them and really taking ownership of your

565
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: own life and realizing that you're an adult with agency

566
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: and you have choices. So many people feel like they're

567
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: trapped by their families that they feel like, you know, well,

568
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: this is what this person always does, and then I'm helpless.

569
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: It's like, you're not helpless. You have lots of choices

570
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: in terms of how you respond. So you can't control

571
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: what they do, but you can control what you do.

572
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: And if the old pattern of responding is not king,

573
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: it's not effective. And and and by the way, we

574
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: develop these patterns because as children, we had to find

575
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: creative ways to manage with family members who maybe couldn't

576
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: see us in the way that we needed to be seen. Right. Um,

577
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: But as we get older, we find that those ways

578
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: of protecting ourselves in the past don't protect ourselves as

579
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: adults because we have so much freedom now that we

580
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: have many more options and we're just not aware of

581
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: the options because we didn't know about them. We didn't

582
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: learn about them. And I think that's what therapy can

583
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 1: be really helpful for people is to learn what are

584
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: these options. I can respond in a different way, I

585
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: can set boundaries, I can do all these things. What

586
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: does that look like? And that's where I think it

587
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: comes in handy again, that wise compassion versus the idiot

588
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: compassion of what our friends say, not that our friends

589
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: aren't helpful, but I think our friends don't help us

590
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: to really go to that deeper place. Right Well, our

591
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: next call comes from Taylor. She says, Dear Chelsea, I've

592
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: been with my partner for eight years. We laugh, we

593
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: care for each other, we have common interests. He's truly

594
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: my best friend. About three years ago, we stopped being

595
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: intimate with each other. After the first year of suppressing

596
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: my needs, I came to him honestly and told him

597
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be in a sexless relationship anymore.

598
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: Then he confided in me and said he has always

599
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: had this problem with relationships. The conversation evolved, and finally

600
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: he told me he had childhood trauma that prevents him

601
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: from having healthy intimate relationship. So what do we do

602
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: while our relationship is in turmoil? Buy a house together?

603
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: Of course, another year goes by. I decided I'm going

604
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: to talk with therapists and learn how to uncouple. Then

605
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen, all my problems seemed so small. As the

606
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: world was shutting down, people losing lives and jobs. I

607
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: decided I should be grateful I have someone who loves

608
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: me to go through this pandemic. Our relationship barely survived

609
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: the pandemic. We decided it's time to finally get a

610
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: couple's therapist. We had a blow up and after the

611
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: first fifteen minutes, the therapists separated us. He recommended we

612
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: both see our own therapist to work on stuff separately.

613
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: My partner started working one on one with the original therapist.

614
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: I was supposed to get a recommendation. However that never happened.

615
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: Thank goodness for this podcast. I have seen huge improvement

616
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: in his behavior and our relationship has been much better

617
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: since he started working on his issues. However, we still

618
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: don't have sex. Now it's been so long, I feel

619
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: like I don't even know how to put the moves on. Also,

620
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: knowing what I know now about his childhood, I almost

621
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: feel inappropriate wanting this need of mine to be met.

622
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: What advice can you give me for getting back in

623
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: the bedroom with my bow Taylor? Wow? Well, first of all,

624
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: what I what I was hearing originally was a lot

625
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: of avoidance. Um, she said, you know, after a year

626
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: of this, it's like, wait a minute, you didn't have

627
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: sex for a year and it took you a year

628
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: to talk about it, and I think, you know, I'm

629
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,719
Speaker 1: really glad that they decided to go to therapy, but

630
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: it does seem a little strange that he's seeing the

631
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: original therapist that they went to for couples, and she's

632
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: sounds like not maybe going to therapy because yes, these

633
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: are individual issues, but it affects the couple, and I

634
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: think it's really important for both people to have somebody

635
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: to understand this better with. They have two things going on.

636
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: One is that they need to figure out what is

637
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: the day to day of this relationship right now as

638
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: these things are happening, what are they learning about themselves

639
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: and what are they learning about each other? But then

640
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: the other question I think she has for herself is, yes,

641
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: he has this trauma, Yes he brings us to the relationship.

642
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: Is this something that she is signing up for? Yeah,

643
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: and we have Taylor with us. She and I actually

644
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: unpacked a few of those things on our original call

645
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: together as we sort of explored this question. And I know, Taylor,

646
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: you mentioned that kind of your day to day feels

647
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: a little bit like roommates. Correct. Yeah, we're definitely just

648
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: in this like dale platonic state. I would say, yeah,

649
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: so are you going to therapy too right now or

650
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: is just he going to therapy. No, therapy is currently

651
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: happening right now for either of you. Correct, Okay? And

652
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: why did he stop going to therapy? So I was

653
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: told like his therapist went on vacation and then just

654
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: never reached back out after vacation, and then he never

655
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: followed up with him either. And did you follow up

656
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,959
Speaker 1: with your boyfriend and ask him why he didn't follow up?

657
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: I think a big part of it for him was

658
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: it was talk therapy, which I could tell was like

659
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: good for him, but he wanted something that was more

660
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: like action based, Like he started looking into micro dose

661
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: thing and like maybe getting on some sort of medication.

662
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: He just felt like keeping talking about it wasn't really helping.

663
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: And so since he wanted to try a different approach,

664
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: did he do anything proactive to pursue that. No? Right, So,

665
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,719
Speaker 1: so that's the thing, So he doesn't want to just

666
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: talk about it, but actually he's just talking about it,

667
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: even if he's not going to a therapist. He's just

668
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: talking to himself about it. You know, well, maybe I

669
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: should do this, or maybe I should do that, but

670
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: he's not. It's it's ironic that he wants some kind

671
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: of action, but he's not willing to sort of take action,

672
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: even though he has ideas about how he might want

673
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: to take action. Yes, that's a very good point. I

674
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: wonder about you two, Taylor. You're not going to therapy either,

675
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: And this sounds like a really difficult situation. And it's

676
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: been going on for quite a long time. Why do

677
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: you think you haven't gone to talk to somebody about this?

678
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: I guess I feel guilty for feeling that it's like

679
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: somehow something bad that's happened to me, when it really

680
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: isn't something that's happened to me. It's just something that

681
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: I am have exposure to because of who I'm in

682
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: a relationship with. So who you're in a relationship with

683
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: is happening to you, right, You're acting like this this

684
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: is his issue and and that and that you're not

685
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: allowed to feel anything about it because he's the one

686
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: who had the trauma. He's the one who struggle. He's

687
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: the one who's suffering, But you're suffering too. It's almost

688
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: like I I see this a lot. We had someone

689
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: on our podcast where she was this young couple and

690
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: she was her husband had this chronic illness and she

691
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,439
Speaker 1: was taking care of him, and she said, I don't

692
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: feel like I can really talk about how this is

693
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 1: affecting me, because he's the one who's sick, right, He's

694
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: the one who sometimes is in pain. He's the one

695
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: who has to deal with the illness, and I don't

696
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: really have the right to complain about anything. And we

697
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: see that so often when somebody seems like they're the

698
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: one struggling more and the other person feels like, well,

699
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: you know, I have a lot of compassion for what

700
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: they're going through, and so I'm going to be the

701
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: person who stands by their side, but I'm I really

702
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: my feelings. It's sort of like the hierarchy of pain, right,

703
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: we make this up in our heads, like this hierarchy

704
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: of pain, that his pain is worse than mine, so

705
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to feel mine. We do this all

706
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: the time, you know, with our with our friends, with

707
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: our families, you know, like whose pain gets too gets

708
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: to be aired, and then it's almost like a contest.

709
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 1: But pain is not an test. It's not a hierarchy.

710
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: Pain is pain. And so if you're struggling and it

711
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: sounds like you are, by the way, anybody would be

712
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: having lots of feelings about what's going on. It's a

713
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: really challenging situation. You need a place to go as

714
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: well to talk about what's going on for you. It

715
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: will also help you not only talk about what's going

716
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: on with you, but it will help you to communicate

717
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: with him about what's going on between the two of you,

718
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: because it sounds like the two of you don't really

719
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: know how to communicate. I feel that's accurate. The guy

720
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: that we started to talk to originally, he gave us

721
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: like these handouts and they were really super helpful. And

722
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: because we were in the moment of therapy, it was

723
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: easy to like say, oh, hey, let's use that worksheet

724
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: around this listener speaker moment because we were in it,

725
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 1: and now that we're not in it, it's like, oh, yeah,

726
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: remember that thing we did over the summertime, Like, let's

727
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: try that again. I don't I don't know. I guess

728
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: I don't really do a good job of like speaking

729
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: up for myself and my needs, and so I mean,

730
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: I guess that's also how I've probably gotten to this point. Yeah,

731
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: And that's why I think you'll you would get a

732
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: lot of tools out of going to talk to someone.

733
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: But I also think you'd get some clarity on how

734
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: you feel about being in this particular relationship and what

735
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: will happen if things don't change, Because a lot of

736
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: times we think about what's happening right now, but we

737
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: don't think, how will I feel if I'm in the

738
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: same exact place in five years. So I just saw

739
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: your face fall. It was not subtle. Um, you know,

740
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,720
Speaker 1: how will I feel if I'm in the same place

741
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: in ten years? It sounds like if you look back,

742
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: you said you've been together. I think eight years? It's

743
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: all right? Yeah, so October was nine, okay, so so

744
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: and at some point you know this wasn't the beginning,

745
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 1: but it it's been going on for quite a while.

746
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: And so if you thought back then nothing will have

747
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: changed and I will be in the same exact place.

748
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: How would you have felt about that? Helpless? I guess hopeless,

749
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,399
Speaker 1: Helpless and hopeless maybe. So, what what you and your

750
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,240
Speaker 1: boyfriend have in common is that you both want something

751
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: to change, but you're both not doing what you need

752
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: to do to make things change. And I would want

753
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,439
Speaker 1: you to ask yourself, why are you not meaning if

754
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: you want to see if this relationship has potential to

755
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: be fulfilling for both of you, and I don't just

756
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: mean in the physical intimacy, but just in general, the communication,

757
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: the connection, the closeness. Then you're going to have to

758
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 1: do something other than nothing because things magically change. No, absolutely,

759
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: And you look like you're in pain, you know what

760
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: I mean. You look like you're an emotional turmoil and

761
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: like this is where you know you are. It's okay,

762
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 1: that's okay to admit to yourself, you know, I mean,

763
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: maybe that's the fire that you need to to recognize

764
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 1: that you have to do something proactive here. You can't

765
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: just sit wait for him to fix himself or to

766
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: fix whatever issues that you guys are working on. You

767
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: have to be part of that solution. And I know

768
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: it's probably scary to think about the fact that, oh,

769
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: you know, if I go to therapy, maybe I'll learn

770
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 1: that I'm going to have to leave him. You're putting

771
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 1: your everything on hold for a relationship that isn't bringing

772
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: you that much joy. Yeah, it's really hard because we

773
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,879
Speaker 1: do have fun together, Like he is hilarious. I know

774
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: that he loves me and all these things, and it's

775
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: just like I look at like the thought of being

776
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: single again is terrifying, Like can I just like have

777
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: this little bit of happiness and not have it all

778
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: because I'd rather have that than be on my own again.

779
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: This is so common. I see this all the time

780
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: in therapy, where people say, you know, I'm getting some

781
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: crumbs in this relationship and they're delicious. They're delicious crumbs.

782
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: I really love these crumbs. Um, But if I leave,

783
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: I might start right. So I'm getting something here, but

784
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: if I leave, I might have nothing. And I think

785
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: that when you make decisions based on fear instead of

786
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: making decisions based on some inside place of knowing, and

787
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 1: you're not at that inside place of knowing because you

788
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: haven't explored it enough, you haven't done the work because

789
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: you're afraid to find out what that place of knowing

790
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,919
Speaker 1: is going to tell you. It might very well lead

791
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: to a very fulfilling relationship with this person who is

792
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,399
Speaker 1: hilarious that you love being around. Okay, it might lead there,

793
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: it might not. We know that if you do nothing,

794
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: you will be in this You will be having the

795
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: same conversation with somebody else five years, ten years, fifteen

796
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: years down the line. Yeah, I guess I also don't know,

797
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 1: like good time and place to start talking about things again,

798
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: because I feel like I do this thing where we're

799
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,240
Speaker 1: in a good place, so I feel like that means

800
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: like this is a good time to start talking about

801
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: things again. But then it's like his perspective is we're

802
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: in a good place, like why are you bringing this

803
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: up now? So it's both and there are some good

804
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: things happening between the two of you, and these other

805
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 1: problems still exist, so it's not one or the other.

806
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: You're not in a good place, and that erases everything

807
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: that's not working, just like when things are not working,

808
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: it doesn't erase all the good things that you have

809
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: with each other. It's always both and And maybe one

810
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: way to do this to kind of structure this is

811
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: if you each come up with almost like a menu

812
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 1: of here's a list of things I want to talk about.

813
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 1: He has a list of things he wants to talk about.

814
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: You only do one at a time, maybe once a week, right,

815
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: And you give each other the menu, and they get

816
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: to pick from your menu the topic that they want

817
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: to talk about. And that's the only topic that you

818
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: guys talk about in that conversation. You don't bring up

819
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: anything else on the menu. You can only order one item.

820
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: There are no substitutions, nothing, nothing you know, doesn't come

821
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: with any other things. It's all all a heart. And

822
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 1: then the person has some control over it because they say, oh,

823
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: you have these five items, I'll pick number three. I'm

824
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: comfortable talking about that right now, And that might just

825
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,760
Speaker 1: be a way to kind of start some conversations going

826
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 1: between the two of you, and then the next week

827
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 1: you choose off his menu. Right. But I really think

828
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: that you're going to need someone who can help kind

829
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: of hold you, support you, and guide you both of

830
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: you as you go through this. And and that means

831
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: that you each need to find somebody. You can either

832
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: go to couples therapy or you can go individually. Um,

833
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: but I think you need to find somebody to help

834
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: guide you through this process of really understanding who you

835
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 1: are to each other, with the hope that it brings

836
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: you closer to each other, with the hope that this

837
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: relationship becomes the kind of relationship that you both want. Okay,

838
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: So I guess a good question. Then. Part of the

839
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: reason I never got a therapist is because the guy

840
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 1: we were originally working with that we did like four

841
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 1: couple sessions with and then he moved to doing one

842
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: on one and then I I guess he was gonna

843
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 1: send your recommendations and you never did, and then I've

844
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,240
Speaker 1: heard like it. I mean, this is an excuse for myself.

845
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: But that's kind of hard to find a therapist right now,

846
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 1: Like therapists are overwhelmed with stuff like people dealing with

847
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: pandemic and everything like that. So I just maybe I

848
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: don't I need like a resource or something. Sure, And

849
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: I'll tell you, you know what, what's harder than finding

850
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 1: a therapist is being in a really unhappy relationship. It

851
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: is far easier to find a therapist than it is

852
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: to be in an unhappy relationship. So you're already doing

853
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: the hard thing. So finding a therapist will be really

854
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: easy compared to what you're already doing. Okay, so um,

855
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 1: there are so many resources. You can look at whatever

856
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 1: city you're in. You can look at your local clinic

857
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: they have low fee or sometimes no fee therapy. You

858
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 1: can look at services like the online services, the apps

859
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: that you know where you can find a therapist. You

860
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 1: can do zoom sessions with. You can call your insurance

861
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: company and you can get a list of therapists in

862
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,879
Speaker 1: your area, and then you can google them and look

863
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: at their Yelp reviews, um or their health grades reviews.

864
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: You can ask friends. There are so many ways to

865
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: find therapists. And you can call a therapist and if

866
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: they say I can't see I'm not seeing anybody right now,

867
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: I'm full, ask them if they have a referral for you,

868
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 1: and they probably will. Do you think we can like

869
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 1: go back to that guy we originally started seeing. I

870
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: think you should go to anybody that you feel comfortable with.

871
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 1: I will say it's unusual for somebody to start couples

872
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: therapy and then see somebody individually. It happens, but it's

873
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,399
Speaker 1: it's not typical, and so you know, maybe you both

874
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 1: want a fresh start. I don't know, but those are

875
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: the details, and there's no reason you can't call that

876
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: guy and say, hey, I'm you know I I need

877
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: a referral of three therapists in the area that you

878
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: would refer me to. You know that you owe me

879
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: a referral. There's no reason you can't call back and

880
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 1: be persistent about getting the information that you need. You

881
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: know there, I mean, finding a therapist isn't gonna be hard.

882
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: You're gonna find somebody as soon as you do the

883
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: work to find somebody. It's I mean, she just gave

884
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: you so many ways to do it, so that that

885
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 1: should be your first point of action, you know, get

886
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,879
Speaker 1: off this call and then make that make that call. Yeah,

887
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,760
Speaker 1: And it sounds like your partner is sort of looking

888
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 1: a little bit for a quick fix. And as you've mentioned,

889
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: it's a trauma like it's we would love if there

890
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 1: was a quick fix, and we would love if just

891
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: like sure, like micro dressing might make them feel better,

892
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: but it's not going to deal with the underlying issue

893
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 1: and it's not going to help heal the underlying pain. Yeah,

894
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: but I feel you and I feel your pain, and

895
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: I hope that the next time we speak to you

896
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: that you're in a better place and that you've made

897
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: some strides in the right direction, because you have the

898
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: power to do that, you know what I mean, You're

899
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: in charge of your happiness. Nobody else is going to

900
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 1: come in and make you happy. You have to do that.

901
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: And and and lastly, I would just say, you can

902
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: have compassion for somebody's history, and you can have compassion

903
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: for their trauma, but that doesn't mean that that is

904
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,919
Speaker 1: the right situation for you. And again, you won't know

905
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,399
Speaker 1: until you, guys, understand more about who you are. But

906
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, like you're saying, well, he's

907
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: the one suffering, and I don't. I shouldn't really be

908
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 1: able to you know, I shouldn't have all these feelings.

909
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: You do have all these feelings, and you really, you know,

910
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: so many times I see people stay with somebody or

911
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: stay in a situation where someone's not getting helped for

912
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: their issue. It would be very different if he was saying,

913
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to actively work on this trauma and healing

914
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,720
Speaker 1: this trauma and I'm going to go do that work.

915
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: But it sounds like he's kind of just being very

916
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: passive about it right now. Yeah, And I think, Chelsea,

917
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: you're saying, I should I am in charge of my happiness.

918
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: But then now I'm like realizing on this call, like

919
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 1: how much pain it really is like for me. So

920
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: I think I needed to realize that to be more

921
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: action oriented for myself. So thank you, guys, Well, thank

922
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: you for thank you, and I wish you lots of

923
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: luck and and you know, and good vibes. I'm sending

924
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: you lots of good vibes. Thank you, And if we

925
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 1: ever do talk again, I'll try to figure out the

926
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: dog situation so she's not yapping all the time. You

927
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: could just put her down, that's fine, Thank you so much.

928
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: To figure out that therapist situation. Yeah, exactly, that's their

929
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 1: first point of interest. Okay, good, thank you do that.

930
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: She's so sweet. So hard to see someone in pain,

931
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 1: you know, and they don't realize that they're in pain

932
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: until you tell them, but you can and then you

933
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:29,959
Speaker 1: see them tear up as we can see right now,

934
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like, oh, your body is telling

935
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: you something that you are haven't been able to acknowledge. Well,

936
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and we'll be right back

937
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: with Lori Gottlieb. Okay, thank you. So to wrap up

938
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 1: today's episode, Well that was heavy, but you know, worthwhile.

939
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: I think I hopefully we lit a fire under her

940
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 1: butt to go do something about the situation that she's

941
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: found herself in. H Yeah. Yeah. Do you find yourself, Lauria, like,

942
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 1: how much time do you have to take in between

943
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 1: seeing people? Do you find yourself ever really impacted so

944
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 1: much that it's hard for you to go onto the

945
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: next thing? Yeah? I definitely take more than a like

946
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 1: a commercial break, right, that's a good way to end

947
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: a session that we have to go to commercial. Yeah,

948
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 1: unless you want to do ten minutes of commercial and

949
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: then we'll come back, because that's usually how much time

950
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: I have between sessions. Yeah. Well, LORI, did you have

951
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: any advice you wanted to ask from Chelsea? See? I

952
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: never get to do this, so this is my favorite part.

953
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: I was really excited for this part. One thing that

954
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 1: I was thinking about when you were talking earlier about

955
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: when you get ready, you know, to do something. You

956
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: were talking about centering yourself. I I'm wondering. You know,

957
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: you're on tour right now. You're getting up in front

958
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 1: of these very large crowds. Do you ever get nervous?

959
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: And if you do, what do you do with your anxiety?

960
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: You know what I did this this tour. I didn't

961
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: drink for the first probably four weeks of my shows.

962
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: I didn't do anything. I didn't use any crutch like

963
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: any like I sometimes would take a beta blocker, but

964
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: I didn't do that. I didn't do that. I had

965
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: to be completely present, and I noticed that the nerves

966
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 1: were there for about the first six or seven performances,

967
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: and then I just strolled right into what I do

968
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 1: for a living, Like I I took away all of

969
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 1: those things because I'm at a point where I'm constantly

970
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 1: trying to challenge myself to deliver the best show to

971
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: the people that paid money, that are taking time out

972
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: of their schedule to see me. I there was a

973
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: period of time where I would perform and I never

974
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: considered the people that were coming to see me. You know.

975
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,399
Speaker 1: It was about me going out there, doing a great

976
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 1: show and then going on to the next thing. So

977
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: now my perspective has shifted to in a way that

978
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: I wanted to deliver the best stuff I have, you know,

979
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 1: and honor the people that are coming to see me. So, yeah,

980
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: I get nerves, but I I've noticed that challenging those

981
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: nerves and just walking through it has been the biggest

982
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: strength exercise that I've ever had. It's better than a drink,

983
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: it's better than a joint, and it's better than a

984
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 1: beta blocker. And some people really do need a beta

985
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: baker for ship, you know, people who aren't used to

986
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 1: public speaking. But my therapist said to me, you know,

987
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: when you're nervous about something, that means you care, and

988
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 1: I think about that every single time I walk out.

989
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, if I'm nervous about something, that means

990
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: I care. And that's a good reminder that that nerves

991
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,479
Speaker 1: aren't necessarily the worst thing, you know, they fuel you. Yeah,

992
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: people say that about test taking too, or you know,

993
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: and you're like a job interview or a first date

994
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,720
Speaker 1: that you're nervous about. That if you do feel nervous,

995
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: it does mean that you care. And I think what

996
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: you did was sort of like exposure therapy, you know,

997
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,399
Speaker 1: where it's kind of like if you're afraid of something,

998
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,240
Speaker 1: you do the thing and you find out the disaster

999
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: didn't befall you, and then you can do it again

1000
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, look, catastrophe didn't happen. I can

1001
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: do it again. Right, that's really helpful. Yeah. And then

1002
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: a couple of weekends ago, I went and had a

1003
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: drink before I performed, and I got off stage, I'm like, no,

1004
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: I don't like that anymore. I like to be as

1005
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: clear as possible. So that's a huge victory lap for

1006
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 1: a number of reasons. Yeah. Yeah, No, that's really helpful

1007
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 1: I think for anybody with anxiety. Yeah, well, thank you

1008
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 1: so much. Laurie was so nice to have a real

1009
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 1: professional on today, somebody with a degree. Yeah, no, thank you,

1010
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: thank you. I I love your show. I I listened

1011
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: to it for advice all the time. So thank you

1012
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 1: for helping all of the therapists and non therapists out there.

1013
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: Oh well, thank you. I hope to see you again

1014
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: in person sometime soon. Yeah, thanks so much, great to

1015
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: see you. Take care bye. Well, that was really good.

1016
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: And speaking of the tour that Laurie mentioned, Chelsea, do

1017
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:29,879
Speaker 1: you have some dates who'd like to tell us about? Oh?

1018
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,439
Speaker 1: My god, always, always, I have. February second and third

1019
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 1: are my Seattle shows. We have added second shows to

1020
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: a lot of markets, but those are the immediate dates

1021
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 1: coming up. Oh also, were we added Philly? So come

1022
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: to Philly or Honolulu or Kauai or no Maui ship

1023
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 1: who knows? Anyway? Does that answer your question, Katherine, It

1024
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: absolutely does. Um And also check Chelsea's website, so yeah,

1025
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: go to chelsea dot com. I've never been to it,

1026
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 1: but I think it's a good time. It's simple, it's visible,

1027
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: it works well. Good. Thank you, Thank you, Catherine. If

1028
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 1: you say so, I believe you. Well that's all we

1029
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:09,280
Speaker 1: have for today's episode. Okay, well that was a definite

1030
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 1: therapy session. We will see you next week. Guys. Bye

1031
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:16,320
Speaker 1: by and if you like to get advice from Chelsea

1032
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: and one of her guests, please write into Dear Chelsea

1033
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:23,240
Speaker 1: Project at gmail dot com.